Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Bobby Moynihan: Puppetry, People-Pleasing & The SNL Pressure Cooker

Episode Date: June 8, 2021

Bobby Moynihan, comedic actor and former SNL cast member, shares his rollercoaster journey through comedy, from puppetry classes and performing improv during the aftermath of 9/11, through his 9-season run on SNL and beyond. Mayim and Bobby discuss the misconceptions about comedic performers, the role perfectionism plays in triggering physical symptoms of stress, and how therapy and meditation can help us process career trauma. Hear Mayim's tips for recognizing your breaking point when it comes to work stress with a constructive session of "You Might Need Help If..." BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Well, I said I would do this show, but I would like to keep my beard. Because for nine years, they took it away from me. It's beautiful. This was me during the pandemic, and this is what I would look like if I was allowed to look like what I wanted to. Yes. Wow. That's amazing. Full Christopher Lloyd.

I am Myambiolic, and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break things down, so you don't have to. It's My Ambialic's Breakdown. She's going to break it down for you because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. So break down. She's going to break it down. Today we're going to be breaking down breaking points when you hit your breaking point,

in particular in a career. And the potential transformation that can come from that, you might be surprised that we're going to get into that with Bobby Moynihan. really, really funny, funny guy. Also a very reflective guy. He was on S&L for nine seasons, and he's currently on that new Ted Danson show. Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor.

But Bobby Moynihan has a path, honestly, I'm just going to say he was into puppetry. He waited until S&L was over, essentially to start his life, even though what he originally thought was that was what he wanted from life. Look at me writing the backflap of his memoir that he hasn't written. So we're going to be talking to Bobby Moynihan in a little bit. But first, let me introduce you to the only man I can tolerate wearing the kind of jacket he's wearing Jonathan Cohen. And

even with you, I'm not so sure. Hello, Maim. And for those of you who are listening to the audio, you might want to stop by Mime's YouTube channel and take a look at the outfits that are happening today. We're in another set of track suits. These are colorful, colorful track suits, just like us. But just similar enough to make the cut of being twin cousins like we always are. Yes, today is fashionable, colorful windbreaker day. Do we have a word of the day today, Jonathan? Are we just going to get right into it? We don't. I think we should just consider this idea that over time, people accumulate stress. We all face pressures.

We all respond to those in different ways. And sometimes those pressures can build to a point where they really start to impact us negatively. And we don't even realize how much stress that we're under. You know, as creatures, we're programmed to survive. It's like the frog scenario. That's like the most common. Right. Where if you put a frog in boiling water, what happens?

It jumps out. Oh, it jumps out. Sorry. If you put a frog in boiling water, it will jump out. But if you put it in some water and turn up the heat and let it slowly get hotter and hotter, it'll just die. I mean, I don't necessarily think of us as the frogs. But yes, part of it is that if you're placed in an untenable situation that is so untenable that you find it unbearable, you often do have more strength and resources to get out. But as anyone who's been in a bad relationship or an abusive or a toxic relationship, can tell you, your will and your strength and your ability to channel those resources towards getting out of that, get depleted. And that's kind of part of the sickness also of that kind of situation, whether it's a relationship or even a work situation. And I think Bobby really talks about it so perfectly. So you may know Bobby Moynihan, as I said, from Saturday Night Live, he was on for nine seasons. He originated beloved characters such as drunk uncle. There's a Donald Trump story related to that if you want to Google it.

And he also co-wrote the popular, one of my favorite things, David S Pumpkin Sketch. That's the one with Tom Hanks. It's so strange. It spawned a Halloween animated special, which actually runs every year. But most recently, he's on Mr. Mayor from Tina Faye and Robert Carlock. It's on NBC. He co-stars opposite Ted Danson and Holly Hunter. And he also, I mean, he's done a ton of TV, but he's also a very very, very,

very prolific voiceover actor. He has so much animation. I met him when we did the Kelly Clarkson show together, and he literally brought up Blossom. And for some reason, like, I get that he's the right age to have watched it, but I feel like when people have been on SNL for nine years, like they don't remember that they watch Blossom. Although Amy Polar and Maya Rudolph in a bathroom once at an NBC party

did mention that they like Blossom. So maybe it is a thing that happens. But still, it's very surprising to me. But apparently he was a Blossom. blossom fan and I think that's funny. I want to see Maya Rudolph do a blossom impression. I would like to see that too. Let's welcome Bobby Moynihan.

Break it down. Welcome Bobby Moynihan. Hello. It's so, so nice to have you here. It's so nice to have you here that it made me hit puberty again and my voice cracked. It's really nice to have you here. Jonathan and I are big fans of yours. Also, let's not pretend like we're not wearing ridiculous jackets, the two of us.

you're welcome to tease us. We dress like twins for every episode. This is as close as we could get. We're a little bit off. I like it. I wish I would have known. Because you're a very funny person, we're going to do what most people probably do,

which is try and be as funny as possible. That's what I try and do at all times, unfortunately. Force it. It doesn't make things weird at all when you're trying to have a serious conversation. No, not at all. We got to meet, because we were both on the Kelly Clarkson show.

Correct. A handful of months ago, when like COVID was still a thing. I mean, it's still a thing now. But it was still cool. Right. By the time this comes out, people will think it's really funny that like we literally, we had to sit a million feet from each.

It was, there literally was like an extra long couch just for us. Yeah, there was a very long couch, the biggest dressing room I've ever had because it's just like whatever, whatever room you're in is yours. I had like two bathrooms and a shower and I was literally there five minutes. Like I walked from my car to the, and then was. taken to the side. And not only that, I parked like outside the front door of the studio. I felt like a total, total VIP. It was a fascinating experience. It was the only time that I've pulled into like, I'm reporting for whatever talk show and they're like, right this way. Your spot is right in

front. That's usually what they say to people much more famous than me. Yeah. Next to Kelly Clarkson's car, who will leave immediately from the studio. There was also digital audience members. There was there was just, there wasn't people in the audience. It was just horizontal TV monitors. Very, it's very strange. A lot of people sitting on their, and their homes watching. And the best part was when they went to commercial break, everybody immediately just went on their phones.

So it was just an audience full of people, of computers on their phones. It was post-apocalyptic. Also, it's, yeah, it's the stuff that, like, sci-fi dreams are made of where, you know, in the future, audiences will just be screens. with avatars. It won't even be real people. Yeah, exactly. I'm sure you hear this all the time.

But when I was 15 years old, when I was a child watching Blossom, I think they would have told me I would meet you in front of a digital audience on the Kelly Clarkson show. I would have been like, yeah, yeah, no, that sounds about, right? In a thousand years, that will happen. Just so people can kind of place you in the universe. Where are you from? And, you know, if you can just tell us a little bit about your photo,

Do you come from a showbiz family? Do you have siblings? Are you all funny? Wow, those are all great questions. I don't think I've really ever been asked. I come from New York. I'm from New York originally. I grew up there. I grew up in Westchester County. I lived in Brooklyn and Manhattan. My mother did mescaline in Westchester County. That recently revealed to us. The state flower, right? Sorry, recently revealed on this podcast. My parents are from the Bronx and Westchester was where they went to have a good time. apparently. Sorry, go ahead.

That's where you get your mescaline. That's where the best... Westchester. All right. So you grew up in Westchester. Yeah. Full of mescaline as a child. And my parents, both from the Bronx, my parents were not in show business.

My dad owned a liquor store for many years. And my mom, stay-at-home mom for many years and then became the town tax assessor, like the tax assessor for the town. What? She worked in the town. hall, which was across the street from my house. There's like seven interesting things about what you just said just about your mom. Yeah.

Oh, my mom's a trip. She was the best. Both my parents passed away a year and a half, a couple years ago. A couple years ago. Three years ago now. Do you have siblings? I have an older sister. Yes.

Is she a funny person? Yes. In a very different way. Absolutely hilarious. Very brilliant. Very witty. But not in the industry. Did not seek the attention I sought

But could get it Yeah, and you come, I assume from an Irish family Irish Italian mix, yeah Irish Italian mix Yeah, Irish Italian Swedish Yeah, wow But the name obviously Name all Irish quarter Italian Half Italian quarter Irish quarter Swedish

Wow, that's very interesting Hence your exotic good looks Yes, hence the Mandy Patinkum Who is an Eastern European Jew, that's a different story. Yes. What were you like as a kid? Were you the class clown or were you like super shy and then you like found your groove later and always knew you wanted to be a comedian?

Like what is that like? The story told amongst the Moynihans and I remember it was like when I was very, very young at the pool, we would go to like the town pool and everyone called me watch me because I would just say, like, watch me! And then jump in the pool. And like, that was, that was the big joke was everyone called me watch me. Because I just, I just wanted, I guess I just wanted people to watch me. But yeah, at a very, very, very, very young age, like, I guess, I'm guessing like kindergarten.

I guess it was kindergarten. I've smoked a lot of pot in the last couple of years and forgotten almost everything. There's a cautionary tale for our young listeners. Exactly, yes. I think it was kindergarten. I played Santa Claus. I remember I had a teacher who was like, we're going to do a Christmas play and you're going to play Santa Claus. And I was like, I don't want to play Santa Claus. And she was like, trust me. Like, I remember the tone, even then the tone being like, you're the one to do this. Like, and I'm doing this for a reason, kind of. Like, you should be doing this. And I remember that going like, oh, this is fun, but never being like this is, you know, I didn't have parents. who my dad worked all day and he drank all day and my mom worked all day. So I was, I was just very imaginative. It wasn't like I had parents were like, how do we get this kid in the industry or how do we make money? Like it wasn't, it wasn't that at all. They were just like, no, entertain everybody in the building. Right. Kind of thing. And, uh, or yourself. But when,

when I was young, I did that. I got heavily into like, uh, the summer theater. Right. Like, You were that guy. Yeah, yeah. I was like, you know, like I did summer plays with all my buddies, but all my buddies were troublemakers and none of them were in the play. They were all in the tech crew. I know those tech crew guys. Yeah, like it was like I was in the tech crew, but also in the plays, if that made sense.

And I also built all the sets and painted and like that was, yeah, I had like a weird, like, very nice grew up in a small town Eastchester, a bunch of friends and did theater in the summers and rode our bikes. So did you, what did you do, let's say, after high school? I mean, first of all, it's unbelievable and fascinating to me that you were on SNL for nine seasons. Is that correct?

Nine, yeah, bonkers. So, like, that's super awesome. And, you know, I'm sure people want to talk to you about that. And I'm sure it'll come up. But I'm interested in so many other parts of you. That's the greatest thing anyone's ever said to. me. When Seth, when I got the show, the night I found out I got the show, I saw Seth Myers, and he said, congratulations, you'll never talk about anything else. Oh, that's not true. Welcome to,

welcome to Miami and Jonathan's world. And it makes me very happy. No, well, so I, you know, I have, obviously, I have a lot of friends who, you know, are in comedy and, you know, I'm friends with some of the Groundlings company. And so I know that's kind of like one of the ways, you know, that people take that next step. I'm just curious sort of like, did you start in improv? Did you start writing? Like, what was your path after high school that kind of got you to this next place in life? Because Westchester, for those of you who don't know, like, it's a lovely place. It's, you know, it's near the city, but it's really not the city. Like, it's a very different part of New York. So leaving there is often hard. It's the kind of place where, it's the kind of place where a lot of people stay.

But you left. So what happened after high school? high school more of the same you know was just a pretty easy fun-going kid did a lot of theater and my I remember my there was like my senior year of high school there was a girl in our school who was like absolutely amazing and she was a beautiful voice

beautiful singer and they were going to do a Vita because like she was perfect for it and I think one of the parents got very angry that they were like planning a show for this girl in particular, like, you know, kind of thing? Like, one of the parents got angry. That would be my mom getting mad. What's wrong with my daughter?

What, she can't be in it too? Yeah, that's pretty much what happened. So then the chorus director was like, okay, fine, we're doing one flu over the cuckoo's nest. What? And, like, just went the opposite way, and I ended up getting McMurphy. And the best part is he gave the lead. He gave Nurse Ratchet to the girl who would have played Avita, which was the best, the best thing ever. And it's not lost on me in high.

insight what actually happened there that's incredible fantastic nice job mr gedge uh but uh yeah like so like at this point i college is coming and like i had no idea i wanted to either draw comic books or i was a big um jim henson fan i enjoyed a lot of jim henson's work i just wanted to like i like was like sculpting action figures and like getting into that world at the time and like I was in a weird place And I remember finding Yukon and that Yukon had a puppetry department. It was like the only school

that had a puppetry department and kind of weirdly started looking into their acting program because I was like, I'm not going to be able to pay for school. And went up to Yukon to visit and like did a stupid thing where they were holding auditions for the acting department. And I was like, I'm going to, I'm just going to pop in and do this monologue. I remember from one flew over the cuckoooo

And then the next thing, you know, I got a scholarship to Yukon and I was there for acting. Wow. And like secretly wanting and then taking like puppetry classes on the side. I mean, I'm sorry. You just became like a million times more fascinating because. I want to see the old puppets. Oh, I have a garage full. Wow.

I just watched. My boys and I just watched the Finding Elmo, the documentary, which I had already seen before. But they were so in particular fascinated by a boy. You know, because like it's not some, and I mean, he talks about it in the documentary. Like, that's not something that boys were thought to do, like sewing and fabric and all these things. But they were so fascinated. That was really interesting. What was your comic book jam?

Like, are you a Marvel person? Are you D.C.? Like, are you esoteric, like, anything? It's funny. I am a comic book lore fan via art. I liked to draw. So I would just, like, I didn't, like, read comic books when I was a kid. I remember, like, the first X-Men with Jim.

Lee, like when Jim Lee started drawing it, like, I went like, I like how that guy draws. And like, I started like just buying it and drawing every page or like trying to like, and like, ended up knowing about comics through that. But it was more like practicing drawing. That's incredible. Weirdly enough like that I, I know. So like, I don't know a lot about the history. Yeah, yeah. No, I totally get it.

No, I was just trying to see how deep into the geek world we can go. I can hang, but I'm not the best. Yeah, no, it's not like a prerequisite for being on this show. Okay, so you're at Yukon and you study acting. And then how does one get on SNL? I was at Yukon. I was doing shows there, acting major. Did my kind of time there.

There was nine of us in the entire acting department in my grade, nine in total. and then right after college graduated and moved back to New York and was like, I'm going to now start the theater. I will now start the theater in New York. And move back to New York was doing like an off, off, off, off Broadway show that I auditioned for. It was called Final Exit, and it was, you know, nine people trapped in a room and they don't know how they got there and how are they, you know, and they're talking about there. How are they going to get out?

And it was very, it was very existential theater. And say it again. Sartre. Jean-Paul Sartre. He wrote no exit. Yes. I thought you said Star Trek. I did not say Star Trek.

I'm not familiar. I don't remember that episode. Yes. I remember doing that and being like, this is not what I should be doing. Like this is great and this is fun and this was like good practice in college, but it just doesn't feel right. And I saw, I was walking down the street in the city and I saw the sign for Upright Citizens Brigade. I remembered the TV show. And I was like, oh, that's the best TV show ever.

And I went in that night. I opened the door. I went in. I saw a show, an improv show, and I was like, oh, that's it. And the next day, signed up for classes, and I was there for 10 years before I got SNL. Wow. Yeah, graduated in 99 and found UCB. My first improv show I ever did was like a week after September 11th.

there was not a single person in the audience. Oh my goodness. The only person in the audience was someone in our class who didn't feel like performing. Were you in Manhattan for 9-11? I was driving out of it. I was, but I was in New York. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then I started UCB then 2001 and then kind of went through UCB. He started taking classes, finally got on an improv team called Police Chief Rumble,

with like everybody who's working in comedy now was like that's who was there when I was at UCB. Who did you hang with? I mean, there's a couple kind of schools of comedy and, you know, S&L is often like a lot of Second City. The earlier, you know, years were Second City, but there's Second City. There's UCB, groundlings on the West Coast.

So who'd you hang with? Like, what was your community? Like, when I first started UCB, like, the first group, like the cool group of guys that just went through was like, you know, Paul Shear and Rob Heubel and Chris Getherd and those guys and Donna Feinglass and all these amazing UCB legends, Michael Delaney, Billy Merritt, like all those guys. Then I came in like a little bit after them.

I was on the last Harold team at the first original UCB theater before they moved to the other one. But like Katie Dippold, the girl who wrote, she wrote Ghostbusters and the Heat, she wrote a bunch of movies, like was on my first improv team. Charlie Sanders, a bunch of people. Nick Crowell, John Malaney, like all those guys. We all started kind of around the same time. Me, Ellie Kemper, like, a bunch of people. It was like everybody in that crew is now like Thursday night television.

It's bonkers. It's also the coolest. It's the coolest. I just had one of my closest friends, Eugene Cordero, and our kids are playing. And we were just talking about like, remember when we were driving up to Canada with six bucks in our pocket

to go do comedy for 150 bucks before taxes and like now our children are playing together? Like, it's... My MBLX breakdown is supported by superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine.

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There's a lot about not only that show, but about comedians that, that, you know, is very interesting. Well, to me and hopefully to other people as well, but when we think, you know, when I think about mental health, right, I think about the decisions many of us make as to sort of how we get what we need satisfaction. by our craft, you know? And I was not, it's funny you said, you know, that you watch me. I was, I was not that. Like, that's not my experience of myself, you know. Yeah. I, I remember that I could make people laugh. Like, I remember that. I remember I did impressions, um, even in elementary school. I remember entertaining the other kids and, you know, I'd imitate teachers and, you know, I was, but I was never a very kind of like public about it. You know, I wasn't class clowny. I mean, I was always talking.

You couldn't, like, every teacher, like that was the complaint about me. But what I found when I started doing school plays, which is really how I discovered, you know, that I loved what I do, is that there was a freedom to being up there. And there was a freedom to not being afraid of being up there. And many people assume that actors and comedians in particular that were very confident. Because, you know, who else would get up there? and put themselves out there like that. And while I do have friends,

specifically friends in groundlings and those kind of places who are very fearless, I'm not a fearless, you know, kind of comedian like that, there is a real comfort to making people happy, you know? And I like to say there's like two kinds of performers. There's performers who do it because they want other people to tell them that they're great.

You know, they want the applause and they want the praise. And then there's people who just want some, to say yes, you're right. You did it right. Let's move on. So I happen to be the latter. And there's not a judge, it's not a judgment on like who's a better person or human. You know, I'm not looking for, you know, beatification here. But I know that for me, it's more important that you're happy, whoever the you is, than if I'm happy. And I wonder sort of where you fall in terms of what what performing has meant for you. And in particular, you know, being in such a high pressure You know, I mean, it's like a pressure cooker being on SNL in terms of like the timing and the pacing and how it works and how much you film and how decisions are made and just a lot of the personalities that you interacted with.

So I guess maybe if you could talk a little bit about sort of what you get from performing and how that shifted or didn't shift when you actually, you know, we're working in that kind of environment. Wow. That's awesome. It's so crazy. It's so crazy. Like no one ever talks about it. I just said to my wife the other day, five years. ago, you know, one of the big questions you get a lot is, how do I get on SNL? Or how do I tell my son, tell my son, my son's hilarious. How is he going to tell Lord Michaels to put him on Saturday Night Live? You know, and, and people say, how do you get on it? And I used to say, like, I used to say, find a bunch of people who are like-minded like you, who love doing comedy and get great at it and all that stuff. And like, and this whole spiel of like how I did it. And now I'm like, I have no idea. now it's different, like have enough Twitter followers, I guess.

But also, like, my biggest advice would be like, I don't know how to tell you to get it, but I will tell you that if you do get it, the first thing you should do is get a therapist. And a therapist and an agent you trust or someone just to help guide you because I had no clue. And I didn't seek therapy until after and wish I had a, had, it would have made that nine years a lot easier. Well, yeah, and can you talk, I'm not looking at all for gossip, like really not, but I guess I'm curious kind of what your experience was because, you know, because I'm curious like kind of who Bobby was, you know, before that in terms of what performing did for you

or did it feel, you know, fun and good and you were good at it, you know, I'm interested in that. And then, yeah, I guess I am interested in sort of the shift and. Yeah, it's like a, like a heart monitor. or a roller coaster. It's like, I remember, you know, being a kid and being like,

oh, this is fun. And then, you know, high school plays and like, being like, okay. And then college and was like, wow. And then, oh, UCB.

Like, this is, this is it. And then, you know, SNL was my life stream. That was why I started UCB. I, when I started UCB, Amy Polar started S&L six months later.

And she was like my boss at UCB. And like I watched her do an entire run on SNL. And then eight years. later after training at her school, I started six episodes before she left. And at that point in my life, when I got S&L, which I'll get into, because that was that process, it was 14 months, the whole thing from audition to getting it. But I felt at that time I was at the top of my game. I was like, you know, I went UCB and like I was improvising five to six nights a week. for hours with people that we could literally read each other's minds.

There were nights at UCB where we would do shows, improv shows, where I couldn't believe what we were coming up with. Like, you know, it was because we were so, we were just so in tune and so in sync. And then I got us in hell and it was like, just life just changed completely. And everything that I had worked for up until that point was, I guess, acknowledged, but all. Also, like, my first day at S&L, I was just like, oh, so, so no one's going to tell me anything.

No one's going to, no one's going to tell me anything or help me at all. Like, this is all on me. And I felt very much like I had just gotten knocked down to the bottom of a ladder that I had spent a long time climbing, if that made sense. Like, I felt very much like you are new and you act that way, kind of. Well, and I think, I mean, this brings up kind of two things that feel really, you know, like they need some unpacking. How old were you when you started on SNL? Sorry, I haven't been doing the math. I think 31.

Okay, fine. Let's call it 31. Yeah. Like, what is it like to have your life stream achieved at 31? That's like part one. And part two, what if your life stream is not what you thought it would be, right? Well, that's exactly what happened. It was the first episode.

I would be depressed. Like, oh, yeah. Also, to leave that social safety net, like, there's such a strength when you have a crew that you had described where you can read each other's minds and you're like, oh, my strength as a performer is fed off of these people. And now I'm in a different situation. Like, did you doubt yourself? Like, how did that hit you?

Well, definitely. I mean, like, that's the whole thing. Like, UCB definitely, you know, taught me community. And, and I came, you know, I came from a college with nine people in. my class and like I that kept happening to me I kept being in these groups of entertainers and like that's what UCB was like and then you know I think I was a little naive I think when I got to SNL in my in my mind you know I was born after the show started I was a giant SNL super fan I watched every episode and then the next thing you know I'm there I'm standing in the studio

and like my first episode I was in a sketch that Will Forte used to do that I loved and like you can see it in my face. I'm laughing. I'm like, I can't believe this. Like the first episode was space camp, was complete like, you've accidentally been sent up, sent up to space and now get to play and then done. And then from the second week until the very last episode, it was a mix of complete terror, nightmares and anxiety and mixed with some of the greatest moments and some of the

most insane madlib type moments of your entire like you know it's like one day you're tired and you hate yourself and you're like I'm not funny and then the next night you're on a mechanical bowl with tom hanks and will feral at three o'clock in the morning and a bar and you're just like uh all right and then it's summer and you're like what just happened like you know it was it was um it definitely it changed me and then like hit repeat and that happened for nine years never yeah never never never once have felt any kind of job security, uh, uh, always, always thought I was going to be fired, watched, friends get fired, watched for no reason, four reasons.

Do you want to know what I do at stressful jobs? What? I eat my feelings. Yeah. I find out I isolate and, uh, I, I hide because I don't, I don't want to bother anybody. So I just get out of everybody's way. Right. And then I show up and I try and be hilarious. And then they are like,

In the beginning, I was at the after parties till, you know, Sunday afternoon. And then towards the end, I was just like, I was in bed by 115. But yeah, it definitely changed me. I was a very happy, outgoing person before S&L and after I was very nervous and scared. And then I started therapy. Well, so I don't, and also this is, again, you have to understand not coming from a gossipy place. But, and so I'm going to ask it in a little. way that's not the gossipy way that you might interpret it or that anyone might. Is there a kind of

person that doesn't have that reaction? Because here's the thing. He's shaking his head no. I shook my head no, but I actually, I think I'm wrong. We had Hunter McGrady on. Let's just talk about it. We had Hunter McGrady on this podcast. She's a benchmark of a cultural shift, you know, really in body positivity. She's the most full-figured woman ever. featured in the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue, and she's a model and an advocate, and she's, you know, fascinating. I mean, I think she's very fascinating. And we were talking about body image because she loves her body, which is great. I mean, I don't love my body. It's a thing. Same. And she was like, but just like, get naked, look in the mirror and do affirmations. It's like,

yeah, so I'm not wired that way. And then when I think of my job as an actor, and especially as actress because, you know, there's different stuff on women. Like, there are women who are just like, I just won't eat. I'll look perfect and I'll get all the jobs that I want. And I'm like, why can't I just do that? Why can't I just stop eating? Look, whatever, the way that I think I should. And then, like, my life will be better, right? Or even just with the stress of being a performer, which is stressful or having to deal with publicity or red carpets, there and people who are always like, oh, there's other people who feel like you. I don't know if as many actresses leave events as me because I feel like I'm not, and to me I've learned to accept that about myself.

It's, I'm not wired that way. So I guess that's what I'm curious about. Are there people for whom you can put them in that situation and they'll be like, all right, I'm going to roll with this? You know, you think of all the losses that we as a comedy community have had through S&L, right? Meaning these public losses. And you wonder, like, is it like what is it? And people are like, oh, comedians are so messed up. You know, they're just trying to fill a hole. But that's, situation's very specific. So yeah, I'm curious what you think. It's hard. It's hard. You feel like a jerk because it is a very singular experience. There's 150 people that have ever gone through that. There are 100, you know, almost 150 cast members. And I think all of them are a little affected by it.

I have friends that, you know, friends that can't talk about it, won't talk about it, friends that do, friends that shouldn't from the show, you know, like, and it's always a touchy subject. But I also like it's this weird thing. I met Chris Rock at a jet game. I've never met him before in my life. He walked over to me like, we've known each other for 50 years. And he was just like, hey man, how you doing? How's everything?

How did Lauren treat you good? Like, you know, and it's like, I used to say it's like we've been through this, like, we've all been through the same war. But like, I feel like that's not the right war is not the right word. We've all been, it's like, it's this institution. It's this very singular thing. it's like the Yankees. People take ownership of it.

It's their SNL cast. And I feel the same way. So it was hard. And you want to, every week, you're like, okay, all I have to do this week is write a legendary SNL character that will be beloved and have Halloween costumes. Like, you know, it's like, you get into that mindset of all I have to do is be perfect, which I may or may have. may not have been said to us.

You know, all I, I don't expect you to be ready. I expect you to be perfect. Like, I expect you to just be on, like, kind of. I don't know your parents well enough. But some people grow up with that feeling or sometimes that direct message from parents. And I'm assuming this isn't your story. But I wonder if people who come from that kind of background are maybe more equipped, you know, to just be like, oh, all right, I had to be perfect my whole life.

I'm just going to be perfect here. I don't know. Right after I left S&L, I started... Tell us all about the therapy. I want to know. Well, I was going to say, I was going to say,

because I feel like this is an important thing was like a week, a week before I got S&L, I started dating a girl. And like a couple, a few months after S&L, we got married. Like, it was like,

right before S&L, I met this girl. We dated throughout all of my nine years there. We broke up for like a little bit in the middle because it was like, I was like, know we're going to get married, but S&L is my wife right now. Kind of she was on Broadway for many years,

so we didn't have the same day off for nine years. Like it was very, yeah, it was, we were both performers. And, and then SNL was my life's dream. And then I got there and it changed me. And I had, you know, season four for me, I remember being a little bit like, gagag, gag, gag, that's where it started. I definitely remember, like, what's happening to me. Right.

And by the time I left, I was a different person, but I knew at that time I was like, I have done everything I can do here. I wish I was Keenan Thompson. I wish I could stay here for my entire life. And Keenan Thompson is somebody who is built for that place. Keenan Thompson is someone who knows from the start, who knew, taught me from the start, just let everything roll off your back and just realize that you are on Saturday Night Live and have a good time.

That kid is the best. He's been working in television since he was six, and there's a reason. It's just because he's, yeah. He's, nothing phases him. He's just always fine.

Yeah, I can't, I can't let anything roll off my back. Oh, nothing, nothing. Like, literally not, would not work for me. No, you take stuff and you add it to you. I add it to my back. That's what I, put it on.

I just, I go through life on my back, collecting all the things that can be there. So had you ever been in therapy? No, it was right after S&L. I got married. We got pregnant, honey, honeymoon pregnancy. You did it all. Yeah, had a baby very quickly.

And then three months after my daughter was born, my father passed away. And then three months later, my mother passed away. And it was my first child. And it was like that, that just went, okay, now life doesn't make sense. And that's when I started therapy. and kind of got through the grief and everything pretty quickly and now still talk about the S&L stuff. Yeah. But yeah, the therapy kind of opened my mind to what happened at S&L.

That point that you just described, the going to therapy, that's where I would argue many, if not most people, get stuck. And we talk about this a lot here. So I want to know, was it like, did you? someone tell you? Were you, like, was it very clear? Did you have a person? Like, the impetus to go, you mean? Yeah.

It was a cry for help. It was a cry for help. It was, uh, yeah, I had, I had just had my daughter and everything just felt wrong. I couldn't enjoy anything because I just wanted to share it with them. And I couldn't. And then I just went like, yeah, I think I remember looking, my wife looking at me and being like, maybe, maybe we, maybe it's time. you know, and kind of, and the conversation had been happening, but I was also like, I was at a point we were buying a house. Everything was so hectic living out here. And I started to get to the point where I was, I was waking up like this, just going like, yep, like waking up and just at like, waking up at a 15 and just being out of breath and being like, what am I going to do? Oh, my God, am I got?

You know, and being at such a pace that I couldn't calm myself down and then found. therapy and meditation and that changed everything. So do you go to, is it like psychotherapy? Is it cognitive behavioral therapy? Is it like you talk about your feelings? Do you have homework? No, it was, I found a therapist in the, I literally Googled it and, and went like enough is enough.

I need to talk to someone now. Got it. So talk therapy is what I mean. Yes, yes, yes. Talk therapy. And did, okay, so tell us about that. I'm curious kind of how you found that, meaning how it felt. to have to do that.

I had a father who would laugh if I told him I was going to therapy kind of thing. But I think now after going to therapy, if I explained it to him, he'd be like, all right, I get it, you know, kind of thing. But like, I was never, I was never against therapy. I was never like, oh, that's, you know, garbage. I did have a friend who, a very close friend who told me that his therapist fell asleep. And he stopped going to therapy. and that really bothered me. Maybe he should have just been more interesting.

Yeah. That's when I realized it's also a job. Yeah. And that you have to pick somebody, you know, the person you're talking to is important. But I remember it was hard to find somebody in L.A. at the time. And I went to like my general practitioner and was like, I'm having a hard time getting a therapist,

but I'm having these, you know, attacks. I feel like, you know, like, and started medication and calm down immediately found a good thing very quickly. And that scary part of it, the part that was like felt like my skin was crawling, like, like I was like so nervous that like I couldn't relax. Like the medication helped that. And like once I found a therapist that I really felt comfortable with, I just found myself the first couple months just like uncontroll. controllably sobbing and just being like, I had been holding all of this in for so long and had no idea. And now after a year and a half of it, it's, I look forward to it. It's, it's, it's, it's fantastic. And the thing that I've noticed recently this week is like I was in, I had no idea what a bad place I was in.

And now I know because it's hard getting out of it. And I'm still in that hard place. and it doesn't feel great, but it feels a lot better than where I was. That's really beautiful. And also really a theme that we hear so often is we accumulate that level of stress and we just so many of us cope. We keep going. The pace of life is so fast. You just have to get through it.

And we don't realize how much we're holding on to until we start waking up in panics or our skin starts to crawl and then unpacking that. Like I love hearing that, you know, not that you had that experience of having that sobbing, but like that release point. Oh, yeah. You're able to start to be like, oh, I don't have to hold it like that anymore. I found out that like I had guilt in the beginning where I was like, all I'm doing is complaining to this woman. Like I felt I felt bad for my therapist. Like I was like, you know, and it's like I just realized like that was it.

I was a people pleaser. And like it got even worse through S&L because I was just like, please, please constantly. like please please please love me please tell me I'm great please put me in the show please do this and they would be like why don't you shave your beard and also like did you get heavier and then I'd be like it was a mess and I know I don't in any way like when you were saying women in this industry like it's true if I always my wife would say if I gain 10 pounds I don't get work and I say if I gain 10 pounds I get more work like the heavier I am the fatter the best friend becomes that's it like you know Like it's nothing.

And, but then also through therapy, realizing that, realizing, like, how much I did things like fat jokes or jokes about my appearance or being ugly or, or like they were like, or like they, one time I dressed up as Rosie O'Donnell and like I hate myself for it now. You know, like it's like, because I was just like, I was just trying to please comedy gods, you know, whatever. but now I'm like, oh, I tricked myself into hating myself, and that's a, that, that was a shame. It's something that I think a lot of, in particular, your kind of comedians do encounter because you are writing your stuff. Like, for me, as a sitcom actor, you know, I'm getting material. And sure, I can say, this isn't comfortable or that's not. And, you know, as someone who's played frumpy characters, because I was on the Big Bang Theory for nine years. I had a, I've never heard of it.

That's not what I meant. It's a little show on the side. Oh, yeah. Sounds cute. Sounds cute. Yeah. What I meant was I spent the same exact amount of time. You know, having that kind of job in our industry is extremely unusual.

And in sitcoms, that never happens. So I'm not comparing, but I'm just saying that that was a period of time where, yeah, my dad died in that time. Like, life happened. I got divorced in that time. You know, like I went through a whole decade, you know, of life. while, yes, ultimately needing to please everyone, because that's our job, you know. But also, yeah, being the one who didn't really wear any makeup,

the one who was three sizes bigger than the other women on the show. You know, like just and this is not. A lot of sweater vests. I was Santa Claus for nine years. Right. And this is also not to be like, oh, poor, you know, poor famous people, you know, like poor rich famous people. But, you know, another thing that Jonathan and I really try and drive home here is that, like, those are universal struggles, you know.

The struggle to feel like you can't own your whole self because it's not what other people think you should look like, be like, like, whatever it is, that's a universal struggle. And it doesn't matter. The environment that it happens in that pain is real. Like eating your feelings is a thing that happens if you're, and, you know, an emotional eater. sorry, someone who eats emotionally. You know, that happens if you're on a TV show, not like that's a thing that happens to humans. And we have a

particular experience as being humans also who are on display for other humans, which, you know, it's like, it is, it's living in a goldfish bowl. Yeah, it's that hard line to walk, which is like, I didn't want to be famous, I wanted to be on SNL, and that, I

didn't know any better, you know, and now I get that, and I understand what comes with it. And that kind of stuff. And then when you say, like, you know, like, I have my best friend in the world, he's an exterminator. He's like, how you do it? I'm like, hey, you know, and he's like, oh, that's funny. You're complaining. I was in a crawl space this morning. And like, and like, he's my best friend in the world. So I go like, hey, you know, like, I understand, but like I have, you know, like, it's hard. I, I understand that your crawl space is hard. I get it. I used to work. My

crawl space is hard too. I worked at a Pizzeria Uno for nine years before, you know, like, it's like I, I, it's not like I was born on Saturday Night Live. And it's also, by the way, you know, another thing is people to automatically assume you're on Saturday Night Live, you must be rich. And I'm like, that's not a primetime television show, you know, like, it's, it's not. I made more money on a commercial than I did in my first five years at S&L, you know, Like, it's not, you know, if they see you on TV once, everyone assumes you're handed one million dollars.

For sure. So it's, that's hard too. It's finding that balance of like, I don't know if you have this, but like I just, I just spoke to all of my friends from high school on a big Zoom chat. And it was glorious. It was absolutely glorious. Hours of fun. And then the last like five minutes or that last 10 minutes, it always seeps in. And it's like, so what's Ted dancing like?

Oh, totally. And like, you know, it always seeps in. And it's hard, it's hard to feel normal. What I have noticed about myself is I have always been a fan of things. I've always been a fan of S&L and that kind of stuff. And it was like when S&L ended, I really didn't know what I was going to do. Like I went, oh God, like I'm done. Like I don't want to do it.

I felt like I was 95 years old. Right. And I just went like, I'm tired. I'm 40 and I'm tired already from me. this job that almost killed me. And then like that was it. I was like, well, what like, SNL taught me this thing that was like, what I found I did best on SNL was like, was having a good time. Like when I was having fun. So like I just started writing and doing things like or seeking out projects. Like I'm a gigantic Star Wars fan. And I, I, I, that's not a,

a secret. And I now have downstairs five action figures of my star. Wars characters and like every time I pass them I'm like I'm in Star Wars like I'm a Lego figure I get it exactly so what you did do though so you got into therapy you began a grief process that I mean all grief is linked I like to remind people of that so the grief of also ending a job you know for me like it tapped into the grief of my divorce the grief of my father like everything all gets in there so you started a process which honestly may take a long time to keep processing. And you got married, which is wonderful, and you had a baby, which we assume is wonderful. Yes. And you did kind of, I mean, you are now on a show. Like, you're working again.

And it's such a different kind of environment. So I'm kind of curious, like what the experience has been like working again like that. It's interesting. Right after S&L, I was on a sitcom called Me, Myself and I, CBS, lasted not very long it got canceled immediately. It was me John Laracette and Jack Dylan Grazer. And I, it was my first sitcom. Yeah. Right. My first sitcom, my first kind of venture into that. But it was like right out of the gate at S&A. I went from the coolest job in the world hanging out with Prince and like, you know, whatever to being on a CBS sitcom where I was like, gosh, I really hope I can get it together.

Like, you know, like, and it's, it immediately felt I don't want to say wrong. Not the wrong choice. It wasn't. It afforded me to move out here and set up a life here for my daughter, which is what we needed. And I met Jaliel White and John Laraket in these P. And I know, I'm sure, do you know Jalil? Yeah. Like, I only just met him through that show, but I still, I talked to him the other day.

Like, I made a lot of great friendships on that show. But I also learned immediately, which was not on my mind. was how much your post-S&L career means to, meant to everyone but me. Like everyone was like, it got canceled and they were like, oh my God, we're so soft. And I was like, oh, oh, I'm okay. Like, I met you Leo White.

Like, I was like, I'm living in L.A. now. And like, there's also that thing, too, of like, SNL is very high profile. And I have consistently been working since I left S&L. I'm on like 20 cartoons, all this stuff. But people go, how are you? Are you okay? I don't see you every second of my life.

So I'm assuming you're destitute. That's it. I mean, that's it. I recently saw you as Santa Claus in a cartoon that you posted on Instagram. It went full circle from your theater days. That's such a beautiful point. You know, also as we come to the end of our time with you, like, if I'm not in your face all the time. I still exist. I still have a whole life. I still have things I have to work through,

you know. It's so interesting, though, because it's true, you know, but you kind of can't win. You can't win because then if you, like, people are like, why'd you rush into doing a new show, Ma'am? I was like, well, actually, it took a year and a half, which as a 45-year-old woman, like, every day I'm getting another wrinkle and closer to not being employed. It's like, I don't have the luxury of time, especially as a woman in this industry. But then it's like, why'd you wait so long? What? You didn't want to strike while the iron was hot. Like, you can't win. So, yeah. It's, it's all insane. And now I'm on a TV show, but I'm happy now. I'm doing okay with a family. I am on a TV show that Tina Fey wrote, which I'm so happy about. And they said, well, I said, I would do this show,

but I would like to keep my beard. Because for nine years. They took it away from me, and I like having a beard and I'm at a point in my life. Well, yeah, it was also like crazy to ask for something and get it and not feel like a nuisance and also go like, oh gosh, I was, I was so afraid to ask. It's amazing. The therapy really helps every single day. I would like to make this about me before we say goodbye to you. Because, well, so as part of Big Bang theory, I got to cut my hair. And I don't have straight hair, but for Big Bang Theory, they straightened it because whatever. It's just how it started.

And then you can't change your look. And again, as a female, there's a lot less room. And essentially, we all played kind of caricatures on the Big Bang Theory. So like, whatever your look was, like, that was your look. Fine. So they straightened my hair with iron for nine years. And apparently that's really bad for your hair. And it kind of like kills its ability to do anything.

So I was really glad when they wrote into the Big Bang Theory finale, those last two episodes that like Amy cuts her hair. Great. So then I like got to have the short hair. I call it my give up hair. I didn't cut my hair. I just gave up on like trying to have long beautiful hair. So now I have short hair. And I used to always have multicolored hair after blossom ended because I wasn't allowed to do anything like for from 14 to 19. That's why I have this because I don't, I never want to see. So I used to dye different colors and like, you know, weird, not pretty colors. You know how like the girls now are like, I died my hair, but it's like a $400 job in a salon. Like I'm like an in the sink bottle of peroxide.

Like I'm like, you know. So after like when we started getting ready to do Call Me Cat, I was like, I'm going to put some blue streaks in my hair. I'm going to do it. They're going to be navy. It's going to be like cool. It'll kind of blend in. And for the early photo shoot of Call Me Cat, they let me have blue hair. And then they were like, yeah, we need you to take that out.

And the thing that was like so annoying was that they fit. I think they fixed all of it in post for the photos. But you can't just wait for it to fade. I had to have my hair dyed brown over the blue, and the dye comes out in the shower, and I became that high-maintenance female, where, like, all my towels got all the dye on that. And I'm not used to that.

It's an extra job. It's an extra job. I'm glad that you got to be who you want to be on your show. Well, yeah, but I, like, I said to myself, I said, you know, like, it's also crazy, too. It's like red carpets and stuff. Like, I feel guilty. because like I wear, I dare you to find a picture on the internet of me not in this.

Do you have, what's under there? I have hair. You have lovely hair. Oh yeah, I was going to show you this picture. This was me during the pandemic and this is what just what I would, what I would look like if I was allowed to look like what I wanted to. Yes. Wow.

That's amazing. I'm super about that. I love it. That's so curly too. Beautiful. Full Christopher Lloyd. I love that. Well, Bobby Moynihan, you are a delight. I think your journey is really interesting. I appreciate

like how honest you're willing to be without being gossipy and trashy. Like, you really speak about your experience. And I just, I feel really inspired by you. And I think everybody is going to feel inspired by you as well. Well, thank you. I remember seeing you on Kelly Clarkson talking about this podcast. And I said to you, that's, I'm really glad you're doing that because it's very helpful. and I'm glad I got to do it. Well, this is really awesome, and we wish you only good things and so much happiness with that beard

and your child and your continued journey, and thanks for letting us be part of it. Yeah, thank you so much. It's really nice when someone that, you know, you've admired and laughed with and just really think is awesome is such a cool person. I've been watching his characters for years and years.

It's like hard for me not to want to talk about his characters, which are like, I know everyone wants to talk about the S&L characters, but he's really, really funny. Yeah, but he's been through something, you know,

like, and I really did respect. It's a pressure cooker. I really did respect the way he talked about it because he didn't say the whole system's broken. He didn't say this is untenable.

This shouldn't exist. It's abuse. He didn't say any of those things, you know? What he said was like, this is what it was like for me. This is what it did to me, you know?

Well, just having your dream, realizing your dream and realizing that it's like it's so stressful and painful. But how is it? Okay, here's a question. Do they all not, don't they like send a memo out to all young comedians who want to get on SNL and be like, here's the deal. It's cutthroat.

No one will help you. Don't you think they should tell people that? I mean, we're telling you right now, young people or older people, if you're trying to get on SNL, it's very, very stressful and not in a way that's fun. For the business in general. Oh, but that experience because of the time frame, because of the number of people, because only 150 people in the world have done it. Like, it's a very elite group in a very elite situation with a tremendous amount of history. Like, that is a, it's enormous. What I can't stop thinking about is this idea that like you feel really good.

You have your group of comedians that you're reading their minds and you're like, I'm amazing at this. And then all of a sudden, all of your scaffolding gets ripped apart. You're thrown into a new environment because you're knighted. And you should be happy about it because like look at this opportunity and you don't have anything to complain about. Exactly. But and also you're told you are special enough to make it to that next level, but you have to make it

to the next level with none of the support system that you. You had... It's small fish, big pond. Big fish, small pond. I mean... But then you go in there and you're like, I have to renew people's minds and I have to be able to collaborate in a completely different way. How do you not doubt yourself?

You're like, I wasn't meant to be here. The fact that you can even get through any of it is huge. You also just defined like college. Yeah. When he finished, he also had what I heard was four of the major stressors that can exist as a human. Death, birth, moving. There was one more.

A change of job. I mean, he had, like. Change of jobs. That's four right there. No wonder he's waking up in a panic. Yeah, he was waking up. Some people describe it as panic attacks in their sleep as a, as a technical, you know, person. I don't know that that's how I would describe it.

But what that is is an, and I think many, many people have experienced that. It's not just like, oh, you're falling asleep. It's like, what? It's literally, I describe it as you wake up feeling. like there's a gun to your head or a knife to your throat. You're jolting awake. You are jolting awake and maintaining a level of vigilance and panic as if something significant. And we're not talking like, oh, I had a nightmare and I felt really upset and like I cried.

Like, that's just like me on a Tuesday. We're talking about like a level of feeling like something happened that you don't know about, but your body is physiologically reacting to it. And that's also, you know, when people talk about having panic attacks versus anxiety attacks, panic attacks literally can come out of nowhere. Anxiety attacks typically have more of a, you know, this happened. I started feeling this and then it was like this and then it was an anxiety attack. Panic attacks, they can land like that where you're going about your day.

Something even kind of like that's not even in your consciousness can happen and all of a sudden it's like, go boom, I'm back in a state feeling like, anyway, terrorized. Ma'am, let's do a you might need help if your work situation is putting an undue amount of stress on you and you might be driving towards a breaking point. Oh, I like that. All right. We're saying you might need help if not to say like, quit your job because that's rarely the solution. It's rarely a reasonable solution. We're talking about getting support.

You might need help if you dread going to your job. You might need help if the things that are required for your job. Am I describing you already working with me? You might need help if simple things that involve the maintenance of your self-care seem extremely difficult because you dread going to your job. You might need help if you have nightmares frequently about your work situation or the people that you work with. You might need help if you think that nothing can be done about your current situation. something can always be done. I've been told you may not like all the choices there are, but there are always choices.

And you might need help if your sleep, eating, or interpersonal relationships or sex drive seem to be altered significantly because of what you're feeling is going on at your job. Do you have any others, Jonathan, as someone who's worked, you know, a bunch of different jobs with other people, any other things you'd add? if you're feeling that dread or anticipation that's really consuming, if you're getting stomach aches or headaches and not really connecting that to a stress or anxiety, that's a big one. I guess that's it. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have, we'll see you next time. It's my and biologics breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience Ph.D. or two. One fiction. And now she's going to break.