Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Cassandra "Elvira" Peterson: Happy, Healthy, Dead

Episode Date: October 25, 2022

Cassandra Peterson ("Elvira, Mistress of the Dark" horror icon) drops by for a super spooky special episode of MBB! She discusses her love for Halloween and the macabre, her time living in a haunted house, and the time she witnessed an actual murder. We hear about her small town beginnings, from growing up on a farm to becoming the youngest showgirl in Vegas history. We delve into the origins of her "Elvira" persona, the confidence the character gives her, and Elvira’s impact on modern culture. Cassandra reflects on her Groundlings comedy days with Paul "Pee-wee Herman" Reubens and Phil Hartman, and her current long term relationship with a woman after being married to a man for 25 years. She breaks down the empowerment that comes from owning your body and sexuality, society’s often impossible standards for women, and the science of mind. Cassandra "Elvira" Peterson's Book: https://www.hachettebooks.com/titles/cassandra-peterson/yours-cruelly-elvira/9780306874352/ BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why was Elvira so popular in the Bible Belt? Yeah, isn't that wacky? Because I think people who repress their sexual urges are the people who become weirdos and creeps and pedophiles and all of that stuff, you know? But when people go after, like, other people who are that way, it's because they really might feel that way themselves and want to be sure that they, you know, stuff it back down in there.

It's my ambialic's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. Because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. Hi, I'm Iambiolic and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to. Today is a very spooky day. It's a very exciting day.

She has a real name, but we're talking to Elvira. But first, I'd like to introduce you to the person who only has one real name, Jonathan Cohen. That's it. Sticking by it. Jonathan, I grew up in an existence different from yours. Very different. You were in far off Toronto. A whole other country.

A border away. We had Elvira. Oh, I know, but you did not have her like we had her in my home. A lot of people think of Elvira as, I mean, she is. She's an icon of the horror genre, but she also is a brand, you know, of all things spooky. She's the mistress of the dark. She became a household name in 1981. I was six years old. She was the first horror host ever to be syndicated nationally, and the level of her pop culture icon status is enormous. It's like if you don't know who Elvira is, me trying to explain it is so

difficult. She's made hundreds of film television and live appearances. She's, you know, she's been on S&L and she's it's just been on everything. She's so awesome. There was a reality show. Search for the next Elvira. She's been on Rupal's drag race. Very interesting connection

with the drag community, which she'll talk about. She most recently produced and starred in 13 nights of Elvira for Hulu, and she has a memoir, Yours Cruely, Elvira, memoirs of the mistress of the dark.

And there's a hardcover out. Now there's special covers that you can. can get, it's just so exciting in this spooky, spookiest of months to welcome Elvira Mistress of the Dark. Cassandra, welcome to the breakdown. Break it down. I was born in 1975, so I literally remember being a young child and seeing this incredible presence that became really such an iconic part of not really just like the horror universe, but really our kind of general culture. And, you know, I grew up with like Angeline and Alvira. Those were the two women that I thought

I'm supposed to be like. And I think I'm more of an Elvira than an Angeline, as it turns out. I hope so. Your career as, obviously as Elvira is what so many people know you for and love you for. but you also created such an iconic character that really is timeless, you know, for so many of us. And darker culture and goth culture and all these things that came after, you know, Elvira feels to me so interconnected with what you created. In learning a bit more about you, and obviously we're talking about your book, yours cruelly, Elvira, memoirs of the mistress of the dark. And are there two covers? Is that what it is with the one that's now available? Yeah, there are actually three.

There's one that one that my fans voted on that they liked the best. And so we made that for independent bookstores exclusively. And you can grab that at any local bookstore. And then we made one that is the same as the cover for the book that came out, the hardcover. And then we made a little special one that is going to be sold just basically through my website that people haven't seen yet. That's kind of a surprise one. Okay, that's very, very exciting. And growing up, again, with you is, you know, this presence, you know, in my home for so many things, not just related to Halloween, but really throughout the year.

You know, I'll be honest, I never wanted to know anything else about you, except that you were Elvira. And to now get to learn so many incredible things, you are from a place called Manhattan, Kansas. Yes, the little apple. And you grew up, did you grow up on a proper farm, like just like Dorothy? On a farm, my parents grew something called Milo, which nobody seems to know what that is. I don't even know. It's some kind of cow feed. But yeah, I grew up on a farm that used to be my grandparents, and then they kind of handed

it over to my mom and dad, and it didn't really work out that great. Were you the kind of kid who always knew you were meant for bigger things and you wanted to get out of that small town and go to the big city? You? That pretty much was me from the time my parents stuck me on a table at a Greek restaurant dancing and singing how much is that doggy in a window. And people threw coins at me. And I go, okay, I really like this. I think that's the moment it hit me. You're a very also special icon for those of us who may have grown up in an era where we didn't talk about feminism or empowerment. But I always need.

knew, even as a child, that there was something so, you were so in, in your body and in yourself. And you owned, you know, what, what, especially to young kids, was sexy, but also there was something very powerful about you in the way you handled yourself. And I think for a lot of, a lot of boys and girls, we may have never seen that, you know, in this generation of a woman owning that the way you did really before its time. You were very attractive. And I'm wondering if when you were little, was that something people commented about?

Was that part of the attention you got? Like, were you like that gorgeous girl in Kansas that everyone was like, who is that lady? No, no, no, no, no. I think if you look at my book and see some of the photos in it, you'll see that I was not a good-looking child. I mean, I had Tony Perms, which my mom gave me all the time. So I had this frizzy short hair.

Then I wore a little cat eye-shaped glasses because I couldn't see two feet in front of me. I was just a total nerd and a geek. No, no, I was not a good-looking kid. It's not somebody who's, no one used to say, oh, with a pretty little girl. No. Huh. So when did you kind of come into, I mean, you became a go-go dancer and then eventually, I believe the youngest Vegas showgirl, I think, I think you still hold.

that record? As far as I know, I do, I think it was in the Guinness Book of World Records, but I was told I was the youngest. I started when I was 17. You weren't wearing cat eye glasses then. Like, by then you had become like this girl who's like, I'm going to go to Vegas. No, I'll tell you what happened. I don't know what happened. I think I owe it to Anne Margaret in Bye Bye Birdie and Viva Las Vegas. I saw her in those movies when I was about 13 and 14 and I go, that's what I want to be. That's what I want to look like. And I don't know.

It just changed everything for me. I, you know, I threw away the glasses. I started wearing contacts and started doing my hair differently. Met some drag queens who gave me fantastic makeup tips. And it just all changed for me right around puberty. I went from super homely little geek girl to like super sexy. You know, Vickson. Were your parents supportive of you kind of leaving to pursue this dream of, you know,

eventually heading to Hollywood? Not all that much. No, no. They thought it was a pretty stupid idea. They were always telling me, well, you can do that, but you better think of something, a normal job, but you can make money yet because you can't live, you know, just nothing out there in Hollywood. Now, I wouldn't call them supportive.

I mean, they were cautious. They thought it was cool once in a while when I got to be a showgirl in Vegas, they thought, wow, she wasn't kidding. She's really doing this thing. So they became a little more supportive as time went on. But initially, I mean, if your daughter is 14 and wants to be a go-go girl, you don't say, yeah, that's awesome. You know. I know it's a really broad, possibly dumb question. What was Vegas like then?

Vegas was awesome then. And I always tell people, God, I wish, wish, wish, it could go back to those days. I mean, for one thing, if you went to see a show in Vegas, women wore floor-length gowns, little mink stoles. And the guys were in either tuxedos or very fancy suit. And, you know, the rat pack was playing there. And, I mean, going to a show there was amazing. You'd have like a four-course meal and champagne and watch the show. And it was so classy.

It really, really was, especially to me coming from, you know, Kansas. But now, like, it's, you know, you have to have, I think they have rules, the dress code, that you have to have your butt crack showing. And you have to, you know, wear Bermuda shorts and a torn t-shirt. And that's how you get in a show. I don't know. But I go there today, and I'm so disappointed. I wish there was somewhere like Vegas used to be.

but there isn't. No, not that I know of. If I find it, I'll tell you, and we can go together. Yes, let me know. I'll go there. How long were you in Vegas kind of living that life? I went there in 1969, and I think I left in 1971. I had a one-year-long contract from the time the show started until I left,

and then I moved to France. I don't know why. But, yeah. So about a year and a half altogether. Okay. My Ambialx breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful.

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At some point, you want to sort of take things to the next level and move into the acting world. How did that transition happen? Well, it was kind of a long way from Vegas to Hollywood via Europe. And I was in a band and tried to do some other shows, singing shows and some other various bands. I got in a band called Mama's Boys, went all over the country for four and a half years. But eventually, I just made a decision in my mind that I was getting too old. to be a dancer and it wasn't that great of a singer and I made up my mind the next step should be acting. It was like, where do I go from here? All I knew how to do was showbiz, but I'd never done any other job.

I mean, once in a while, miscellaneous table waiting or temporary secretary, but I had no career and I hadn't attended college or anything. So, you know, what was I going to do? So I decided I would get into acting. And when I moved to LA, probably in about, I can't remember exactly, 74, 75 started taking various acting classes, but it was a long haul before I got to the groundlings. I didn't get into the groundlings to late 70s, I think 78 or 79. And then I was in there for four and a half years with Phil Hartman, Paul Rubin's John Paragon, who is my writing partner and played Jambi the Genie on Pee's Playhouse for people put them down in. Gosh, that's awesome. And anyway, and I got to say that I think the groundlings was probably the best thing I ever did for my career. It really, really was.

It taught me to think on my feet. And, you know, I wasn't that good at reading lines or anything. So it's really important. I mean, if people are looking to get to be in comedy, I can't think of a better launching pad than being in the groundlings. so many people have come out of there, as you know. No, it's, I mean, it's such an historic place. And I'm just thinking of the time that you were doing all these things. It was like a real other era, you know, of Hollywood that you kind of began in.

I guess that's because you started so young. But then to be in the groundlings, you were at the groundlings in such a, you know, a fertile time for comedy, especially in Los Angeles. And the genesis of Elvira, as we know her, if I'm understanding this, correctly came from a character you were doing at Groundlings, which was not Elvira, but describe how we get from Groundlings to Elvira. I did a character in there, and I didn't have very many characters. I was not a great character person. My character was the sexy girl, the girlfriend, the showgirl, the stripper. That's what I played. All of those parts in the Groundlings.

Weird, right? And so I wasn't great at characters, but I did. have this one character that was a blossoming actress and she was on an audition with another rounding. We were sitting there at an audition. We were wearing exactly the same dress, had the same hair, everything, and we turned each other and go, I like your dress. And we're just a couple of dorks in Hollywood. And I was doing a little bit of a Valley Girl thing because Frank Zappa and Moon had just put out the song, Valley Girl. So, um, And we knew those type of girls. Boy, did we.

They were all over L.A. So we were being kind of like that, you know. And the director of the TV show, that was a local TV show, saw me in that character, and decided he really liked me and called me in for the audition. You know, and getting an audition for a part late night on local TV, it wasn't exactly my dream job. I had just lost the part of Ginger on Gilligan's Island,

just by a hair. And so this was like, you know, it'll be a little money. But what the hell? At least I won't have to book more temp secretary jobs. So anyway, that's how that kind of happened. I went on the audition and there were lots of women there and I got the part. So what was the audition for specifically? A horror hostess who they were going to call Vampira.

And what did you go in looking like? I went in kind of like this. I had red hair. I had on a turquoise dress, same color as this. and little white sandals. And I would just la la la, la, la, went in. And when I walked into the room,

I was surrounded by women in long black dresses of long black hair and fangs put in. And it was one of those moments like, oh, my God, I showed up at the wrong party. So it was a miracle

that I still got the part. I don't know. And then from there, how was Elvira, as we know her, born? And again, Jonathan, there's a very specific personality that goes along with Elvira.

And it's, you know, it's not sort of a traditional, you know, female kind of host. I mean, there were many females on television at this time. But most of them were kind of eye candy. You know, it was like the ladies on Price is right. It was that kind of thing. So to have, you know, this was a woman kind of owning this space with a very specific give zero Fs kind of about other people's person. I mean, at least that's kind of my reading. But how was that both the look?

and that attitude born. I wish I could say I sat down and had a nice, you know, there was a concerted effort to making it that way. Well, I was grabbing at straws to tell you the truth. I was like, okay, I got this job. I have to look like a sexy, scary something. I didn't know what a horror host was. I know I'm supposed to look sexy.

I know I'm supposed to look spooky. And I got one of my best friends, a guy named Robert Redding, to help me. He was an artist. So he drew a couple of renderings of what we thought. It looked like we were going for Sharon Tate in the Fearless Vampire Killers in like a sheer, gauzy pink dress with long, flowing red hair and, you know, kind of dead girl eyes and lips. And the station when we walked in with that sketch, we're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. She just have black hair, black dress, you know, the whole black thing.

So back to the drawing board, we brought in a picture. It was kind of an updated 80s, punk, roovy sort of. vampire female vampire look. You know, we wanted to make it sexy, but we had this plunging neckline. I told my friend Robert they're never going to go for this. And they just stayed a picture for a while and said, could you make the slit on the leg higher? And that was it. You know, it's local TV.

It's coming out late at night. They just wanted ratings. I mean, my mind is blown in so many ways, just thinking about sort of like the evolution of this. And it's true. There was a very kind of Joan Jett meets, you know, vampire, I mean, it was all the things kind of coming together. And in terms of the personality, because, you know, I do, I love this story. It's like a small town farm girl, like makes good and like goes to Vegas and shows her parents.

Like there's more to the world than just our little farm. And then like you go to L.A. And of course you're like, you're struggling, but also like you're living this dream that is so far, you know, from what you came from. And then we get here and you are, you know, a woman ahead of her time in terms of being given this. positioned to also own your identity. So many women we were seeing on television at that time were being designed by old white men. And this character, it felt like, you know, it felt like it was you. Like it felt so authentic when I watched you, this is this lady. Where was that personality from? I thought a lot about the personality. And I've always said to people,

there's nothing about Alvara that's like me. But one day it dawned on me that, Elvira is my personality when I was a teenager. Wow. I was the biggest loudmouth, smart ass. You couldn't tell me anything. I knew everything. And I was just going to be super hot and sexy and balzy. And, you know, as time went on, life kind of tempered all of that, I guess.

You know, I think a little more, you know, modest, I guess. But I think about Elvira. And I think that's how I was when I was a teenager. I just didn't take any crap from anybody. And I was a parents' worst nightmare, I guess. But I really think that's where the personality came from. And I have a lot of people also who participated in helping me be that way. My writer, John Paragon, my friend Robert Redding, and a million and one gay men, really.

I totally categorized Hellfire as a drag queen. I am 100% of drag queen. There's nothing different about me. And any drag queen I know except I don't tuck. But other than that, we're pretty much exactly the same. And the other important part is, I own my character. So I get to do it the way I want. There's no one with input into my character or my business that I don't want.

So that is incredibly lucky. As you know, Peewey, Herman, Paul Rubin, is also the same. I think he always says we're the members of the most exclusive club in the world. There's just two of us, basically. This is what I call Jean Simmons or Alice Cooper or someone part of that club. But not many people own their characters. I'm curious how that happened because it was a role that you auditioned for, but then they allowed you to own the rights to the character?

How did that work? Well, it was kind of weird. We asked for more money every year. We'd ask if I could be bumped up from the $350 I was making each week for the number one show on their local station. Everyone was likely profiting except the actual person who was creating it. Yeah, and I was buying the props. I was setting the lights sometime.

I was writing it with my partner, John. We were doing everything. And it was their number one rated show. And I was getting $350. They bumped me up finally all the way to $500 a week before taxes. But I still had to work temporary secretary. jobs during the day to pay my rent. I'm making like nothing. And we asked for more for a pay raise. And they say no. So we said, how about just the rights to be able to have a fan club so I can make a

little money, you know, charge people like five bucks. And amazing. They get a fan club. So they said yes. Then we asked them, I got asked to be on a couple other shows like chips and, oh, I don't know what other show. And we asked them for the rights to use the character on another show. And they said yes. And then we just kept asking for little rides. And one day we owned them all. How many years did it take from you being that young woman who got this audition to you kind of having ownership over, I'm the boss of this company, meaning, you know, having that ownership, not just kind of legally, but how long did it take for you to kind of not have to work those other jobs and say like, this is my company, is being this person? It wasn't that long. It wasn't that long. It was maybe a period of five or so years. And I think getting the movie finally in 1987, so that was about six years later, but getting my film, Mistress of the Dark with NBC, that was kind of the launching pad where we said, oh, this thing is bigger than just the local L.A. phenomenon. I'm curious what your personal life was like then. You are not married currently, but you were married to someone for 25 years. Were you married young?

Like, were you with someone through all of this? Were you Elvira more than you were you at that time? Or were you still kind of balancing identities with work and personal life? I had just married my then-husband two weeks before I got the character of Elvira, which has turned out to be very, very unfortunate as far as the divorce goes. I get it. Yeah, okay. I won't go into that any further.

But he worked as my manager. and we were like, wow, this thing. He was basically an out-of-work musician. And he worked with me to try to kind of exploit the character. We met another manager, a guy who managed Todd Rundgren and Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones and a few rock acts. And he had little management expertise.

So he, together with my husband, set up a lot of things and got a lot of things going for me because I was really going, I didn't know what the hell to do. So what was it kind of like, you know, once you were able to stop working sort of day jobs and this sort of was your day job, were you able to be anonymous? Did you sort of live that dual identity?

Yes, I lived 100% that dual identity, which was the best, best thing about my career. Honestly, I knew a lot of other celebrities, and it can be a pain in the butt to be famous, especially when you live in L.A. You can't go out to dinner and not be bothered. You can't have a private walk in the park. You can't go shopping at the grocery store without people stopping you or taking pictures of you.

And you know, you don't put makeup on or anything. And then then you end up on the cover of the National Enquirer saying, only days to live, you know, stuff like that. So I was the luckiest celebrity alive. I was completely anonymous. Not too much these days because people are starting to become aware of me doing other. things. But back then in the 80s, 90s and even early 2000s, I never, never got recognized out of drag. So I could be famous when I wanted to and party and do all the fun things that fame

affords you. And I could be a private, normal person when I wanted to, which was amazing. That's really, it's incredible. You had a daughter. What was that experience like? I mean, obviously you had a, you know, a career and, you know, that's a big. decision for a lot of women in Hollywood, right? Like, when do you have a child? When do you do that to your body and your existence? What was that like for you? Well, I had wanted to have a child for a long time since I was 34. I don't know. I never had wanted to earlier. I got to be 34 and all of a sudden it was my number one goal. Just, I don't know why. Some hormones or something must have kicked in. But it was actually a great experience. I sort of thought, oh, yay, at least I get nine months where I don't

work wrong. I worked through my home pregnancy. I did a mom's workout video when I was nine months pregnant. I did tourist beer commercials just from the head up. A lot of photo sessions just again from the chest up.

My teeth look pregnant, so I did not have that when I was pregnant. I could not have done a photo shoot to literally save my child's life. But I'm happy for you that you had that experience. It was. I tell you, my pregnancy was one of the best times my life. And then I had a great birth and everything. I was pretty old. I was 43 when I had her, but it went great. And that was after six miscarriages for the previous six years. So she was

seventh one and lucky number seven. But anyway, yeah, me having that split personality afforded some normalcy in our life, you know, where she wasn't like the child of a celebrity. She had a pretty pretty regular upbringing, except that I was Elvira. Except for that part. I remember when my kids were old enough to realize I wasn't just mom, but that other people owned me. And, you know, when I would put on hair and makeup, which obviously is not, and maybe it was to my children as significant as, you know, you putting on your Elvira, you know, drag, as you

called it. But I remember when my kids were little, they, Miles used to say, no clown, no clown. He thought I looked like a clown, you know, when I wore any makeup. And it would really freak them out if, you know, my hair was done. And, you know, they were still little. But, you know, I remember there was that kind of realization. And, you know, my kids didn't know who I was really to other people because I was on, let's say, a TV show or something that they were too young to even understand or watch. But with you as this kind of persona that didn't just exist on a show, you know, it was kind of an entire movement and universe.

that you revolved in. Did your daughter have a different concept of you as someone who works out of the house doing something different? You know, I was Elvira a lot from the time she was born. I mean, I have pictures of her when she's just the tiniest, tiniest little baby, maybe a month old, you know. And we were always, of course, putting her in Elvira situations. We'd have the wig on her and we'd have her with a dagger and with a snake. And so she kind of grew up with all that. So I don't think it was too bizarre for her really seeing me like that. She was really into Halloween. We were into Halloween.

So it wasn't too weird. But she did really grow to not like the character. I mean, and it wasn't not liking me. It was just I couldn't have gotten her in an Elvara costume to save my soul after she got old enough to talk. So she liked Halloween, but is not a big fan of the character. I think she probably feels better about it now, but I don't know. She was, yeah, not a fan. Is she in the industry?

No, very good musician, but a musician and an artist. I mean, I'm so fascinated just about the fact that you have a child because also, you know, Elvira was, you know, I mean, it's like she never aged. She was just this one, you know, she represented kind of all of youth and all of maturity, you know, all at once. You were married for 25 years, which is a long haul, and you are divorced, and you ended up meeting someone, and the story is actually incredible that you thought it was a bad boy and it turned out to be a bad girl. And it's a beautiful story and also, I think, really wonderful that you're willing to share it with people so that, you know, people can also access more parts of the human, you know, behind this person and this image. I'm not sure how much you like to or want to talk about it. And, you know, I'm less curious like, did you always think you were a lesbian?

I'm not necessarily curious to poke it at that. But I am curious about, you know, being with someone for 25 years is a huge amount of time and to sort of have this second opportunity at a new relationship. Can you speak to that a little bit? Yeah. Well, I never thought of myself as possibly gay. A lot of people in interviews have said, when did you know you were gay?

And I didn't. I still don't. I don't know. I guess I am, but I'm with a female partner, but I never had thoughts. I mean, if you read my book, you'll see that I was with a lot of guys. Yes, no, I love very, very famous guys.

And no women before. I often tell people, they say, why are you with a woman? I said, I ran out of guys. Anyway, no, I met her. And it's funny. just talking about after I got pregnant and your body, and I wasn't a little worried about, you know, I mean, I gave birth at 43 years old. I thought, is my body ever going to be back into shape again? And so I quickly went to get a trainer and start working out, which I really

hadn't done before that. You were just naturally thin and stunning and perfect. Well, thank you. Believe me, it takes a lot of work and it takes more work every day. But I went to the gym, to Gold's Gym in Hollywood and started training. And after a couple of years with my male trainer, he was moving on and suggested this female trainer that was there. And that was my partner, T. But it was six years after that until we became like, got into a relationship. I just looked at her as a friend and my trainer. I liked her very much. She had a partner. I had my husband. We were nothing but friends,

platonic relationship. And then I got divorced and I really, really thought, you know, I got divorced at 50 years old and I really thought, this is it for me, no more relationships. I'm done. This is over. It was such a brutal divorce and it was so awful to put my child through, especially. I thought I don't want any more relationships in my life. Next thing I know, I'm in a relationship with the woman. I don't know how that happened. I can't tell you. really, I don't know. I don't know what happened. She's very, very attractive to me anyway, obviously, and sexy and very, very sweet and kind. Everybody that meets her really loves her. Very private person, though. She doesn't like to be in the spotlight ever. Is she younger? I'm curious, how much

younger? 10 years younger, exactly the same as my husband was. 10 years? I like him younger. Huh? Apparently. Apparently, I don't know. And this is a question I would ask whether the person you were was male or female or non-binary, you know, knowing each other, let's say for six years, was there ever any thought in your mind? Like, I would really be curious about this person romantically or sexually? Or was it literally like not even part of your... I thought she was pretty sexy. I mean... Got it. I mean, you mentioned briefly that story about where I was on the treadmill warming up, and I looked over and I saw this super hot guy. I mean, you know, I was still a horn dog,

even though I was married. I wasn't dead. And... And I see this super hot guy. Every day I see him walking around the gym and I'm just like, oh, my God, muscles and tattoos. So hot. And one day I walk into the ladies' room and bam, straight into him. And it turned out to be tea. So, yeah, I thought she was really sexy. But I also have a lot of girlfriends, meaning girlfriend friends that are girls,

were also very sexy. And I appreciate them and go, wow, damn, they're so hot. They're, you know, awesome. But I don't want to jump on them, you know. Kind of going back to the persona, you know, and I talked a little bit about sort of what the kind of empowerment and sexuality that, you know, that Elvira, I think, held for a lot of women. When you kind of look at the sort of landscape of, you know, a lot of the confusion and complexity about women, and how we're treated and how we dress and should we dress this way and what if they think this. And, you know, you've also, you've been in a position where you were a vulnerable woman and you know what that is like as well.

I'm curious sort of, you know, as a mature woman who has also lived through, you know, a few decades in the industry, I'm curious what that's sort of what it means to you when you think about the struggle. women have about sexuality, about empowerment. What does your experience, what can you tell us? Hmm, God, I wish I had a, I wish I had something brilliant to tell you. I don't know. It's hard for women. You know, it always sounds like sour grapes when you say, oh, I didn't get that job because I'm a woman or oh, I didn't get that because my shirt, my skirt was too short or I got, I mean, all of that, where does that matter? and why.

I mean, I think I decided when I was young, I'm going to wear whatever I want to wear and fuck everybody else. What does clothes have to do and how you want to look and how you want to be? What does that have to do with who you are or anything? But obviously it does because it puts you in some pretty scary situations. I mean, I ran around wearing incredibly low-cut, sexy clothes.

I mean, I was a go-go girl, show girl, you know. And I was never shy. But it got you in some bad situations, you know, that shouldn't have happened. But, you know, women can never get off that. I mean, I mean, today they're talking about a woman, 22-year-old woman in Iran who wasn't wearing her hijib tightly enough. It was too loose. And they killed her. And there are huge, you know, protests happening right now.

But if you give in, if you give in, if you get it. give in and go, oh yeah, I shouldn't wear that low-cut dress. I'll wear something higher. And then they say, that's too low. And then they say higher. And then that's too low. And they say higher. Cover your face. Cover your everything you have. Don't be a woman. Be a black blob of whatever. You know what? There's no, if you just keep going with how, whoever they are, I don't know. It's a Christian right, the moral majority, whoever they are, there's no end. then it'll be just women don't exist go away disappear don't exist as as a human being maybe as an object very well said i mean you said you wished you had something brilliant to say i think that's

very well said do you think that because you know you were i'm using your your phrasing because you were in drag because elvira was this you know in some ways otherworldly kind of character do you think there were different rules for you than there were for other women, meaning that it allow you to do more? Yeah, it gave me a lot of license. And strangely, when I was in that drag, I took a lot of license. I felt like I could get away with anything. I don't know why.

I feel a lot more confident, a lot more balzy wearing that outfit. It's really strange. I don't know exactly what to attribute that to. But I don't have the same type of confidence as myself. I mean, I'm pretty confident, but not like that, not like Elvira. Well, I was thinking what you said, though, that Elvira represented some aspects of you as a teenager. And, you know, obviously I have an almost 17-year-old and a 14-year-old. So I totally get, you know, obstinate teenagers who don't give an F what you think and think you're the dumbest person in the world if you're the parent.

But I also think there's something really interesting to the brazenness that we have as teenagers. And I think especially women, you know, when we can really, We're coming into our bodies. We're coming into our feelings and we have all these hormones. But we do. We're kind of expressing exactly what we're feeling. And it's so interesting then that I don't mean to sound like a hippie. But then when we grow older and you have to like tamp it down, you know, like put on your dress pants and, you know, say yes, please, thank you, sir.

And like, signs, everywhere signs, you know, fucking up the scenery. Signs. Exactly. Oh, don't set me off on that. Well, you also start to know that whatever you're going to say is going to have some reaction, and so it becomes less worth it. As a young person, you're like, this is right, and it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. And then after a while, you're like, all right, if I do this, I'm going to get that response,

and then I'm going to have to deal with this. And it's like better to just sort of skirt the issue and live my own life than to constantly confront or put things in other people's faces that then you're going to get backlash for. And so it's like, yeah, do I really want to say that anymore? You have more foresight into how your actions are going to have reactions. And so it becomes not about suppressing yourself, but it's about picking your spots more. That's a sad thing, I guess. If everybody could stay thinking like children, the world would be a lot better place.

But as you grow older, then you get like to be a rebellious teen. And then you're exactly right. Your personality kind of gets tamped down, you know, just because you're saying, if I do this, I'm not going to get that. And pretty soon, you know, you're like a lot of people. Well, and that's what I was just going to say. It's about being authentic, right? And the more you sort of feel the need to conform and do what other people are doing.

And I think for women and, you know, with the media pressures and things, and culturally it's different. But for men as well, it's like you're basically told, be. like the other people, and any parts of you that are resistant or rebellious or some might say interesting, you know, that's not welcome. Why was Elvira so popular in the Bible Belt? Yeah, isn't that wacky? Because I think people who repress their sexual urges are the people who become weirdos and creeps and pedophiles and all of that stuff, you know? But when people go after like other people who are that way. It's because they really might feel that way themselves

and want to be sure that they, you know, stuff it back down and in there. I'm sure one of the things that you're asked probably most about, or I would imagine it's got to be in the top five, is are you really a Halloween person? Are you really a spooky person? You lived apparently in a house that was haunted. I need to know, like, obviously, you must have had to sort of take on some of that, you know, as part of your world because you were so immersed in it. But can you speak to that and then tell us about the haunted house? Yeah, I really am a Halloween person. I was when I was a kid. I talked about in my book how I went to see House on Haunted Hill with Vincent Price, starring Vincent Price. My cousin took me. And I was fascinated. I'd never seen

anything like that. It was about in third grade, I think. I became obsessed. with Frankenstein and Dracula and all this creepy stuff. I started buying famous monsters magazine and ordering model kits out of the back of it to paint. My sisters were playing with Barbies, and I was playing with Frankestine and Wolfman, you know. So I really, really was into that very, very much. And all my life kept this, I don't know, things that my favorite shows were like the Adams family, Twilight Zone. I just love the spooky. And I loved Halloween.

Halloween was the biggest holiday for me and my family because believe it or not, my mother and my aunt ran a costume shop. And so Halloween was the biggest deal for my family. We decorated like crazy because she got all this great stuff in her shop that she sold. Everybody dressed up in costume. You know, we could have the best costumes. because they were free. So yeah, my whole life was very, very Halloween. And I couldn't have done the job of Elvira.

I couldn't have done the movie hosting if I had not been into these movies. Nobody could sit through all the movies I have set through. And nobody, nobody, if you weren't into it. I went through that phase for about seven or eight years where I wanted everything in the house to be spooky and dark. My gate in the front of the house was a big, giant metal spider web that opened. The whole house was dark and decorated with,

with, you know, just all kinds of spooky stuff that I could find, antiques and everything. But we move into that house and I have a whole chapter in my book about that house. The house was called Briarcliffe Manor. It's already spooky. Yes, it's already spooky when we moved in. And one thing after another happened there. And I had never had any of those experiences happened before. And, you know, I was like 35 years old by then.

Never had them happen after. After we sold the house to Brad Pitt, by the way. To Brad Pitt. Is that awesome? That was the best part about that house. And it was just crazy, this stuff that happened in that house. I got to be really, really paranoid about living there. Did not feel good about it.

There had been several deaths there that were violent. The house was built in 19, I can't remember now, 19. 2006, 10, I can't remember, but early early 1900s, many people had died there and in violent ways. And I think there,

honestly, I think the energy was still hanging around in there and wasn't able to get out. The only reason we stayed is I finally got an exorcist, Catholic priests that came and did a whole exorcism of a whole.

And they got a Native American man who routinely went to places to clear them out with sage and everything. And, after I had both of those done, all the spooky stopped. It was done over. And I felt incredibly safe there. In fact, I was in the middle of Hollywood, and I never even felt the need to lock any of the doors again, ever.

I just, you know, which was probably stupid, but I also had two gigantic Rottweilers to help. Are you a, I'm curious, were you raised religious? Are you a spiritual person? do you normally think and feel about energies, like in general, or just kind of spooky energies? Yeah, it was not raised religious at all. My parents were just basically, they never talked about religion. I was forced to go to Sunday school when I was really little bit. I even skipped that.

I'd go in the front door and out the back door and go catch tadpoles down in the creek. But, yeah, it was not raised religious. But I do have a very strong sense of... spiritualism. I do believe in the higher power of some kind, of course, and that things happen for a reason. And that, I don't know, for a long time, I was very much in a belief, and I still am, of science of mind. I don't know if you're familiar with the whole premise of science of mind, but it's kind of you controlling your outcome in life. And that's, sure, that's easy to say. But, you know, a lot of people would go, yeah, that's, you know, so easy for you to say.

But I really do believe in you create your own reality. And that's kind of a spiritual thing. Absolutely. And I believe also that people have sensitivity to things like spirits or, you know, spirits of somebody who had passed on. I mean, I've just heard too many, too many stories of people getting signals from someone else who has maybe passed on that too many of them that they just can't be completely ridiculous you know so yeah that's that's kind of how i believe but i am i would i would say i was very spiritual so obviously

um you have this this book and you know your entire um you know catalog of films and television and you know products and i mean it's an entire brand are you tired of being elvira and Like, is there a point at which you say, like, I'm done? Or is this just sort of, it's, I would imagine it's, it's very different, you know, playing, you've, you've played this second character, you know, almost your entire life, you know, the, the vast majority of your life, you have had this kind of dual identity. Is she kind of with you forever and always? Or is there a point at which you're just you again? I have been thinking about this and talking about it. I actually had a big meeting with my manager yesterday about it.

And it is because I'm going to tell you that you were speaking about spirituality and ghosts and all that. I had a dream just a few nights ago. I was in New York City. And I had this dream. And it was so intense. I was with Brad Pitt and Nicholas Cage. And we were at a screening of Brad Pitt's new movie. And Nicholas said to me, Brad is getting really, really depressed.

He doesn't think this movie is good. And I don't know. He really is down. And I said, I'll go talk to him. So I go over to Brad and I say, why are you so worried about this movie coming up? He goes, well, I'm getting older. And I have to keep upping my game.

I have to keep trying it. But now I'm getting older and I'm not as good looking and I don't have as much energy and blah, blah, blah. And I go, you are Brad fucking pit. Just snap out of it. you don't have to do anything. You can slow down. You can do whatever you want.

You are always going to be Brad Pitt. And I woke up and the first thing I thought was that was me talking to myself, giving myself a pep talk about slow down for Christ's sake. I mean, I'm just, I work, work, work, work. I go all the time. And, you know, I've been working since I was 14 years old. I'm 71 now. It's like, I'd like a break. Damn it.

I'd like to just go have some fun and do some things. But that doesn't mean Elvira is going away. I just kind of have to step off the platform and be a little bit more behind the scenes. I mean, I've got a lot of merchandising and licensing out there. I have my book. I'd like to do a documentary of my book. I certainly don't think I'd stop working. I don't know what I'd do if I didn't work.

I think I'm too closely tied to me is my work, you know, that kind of thing. But I would like to just step back a little bit and have some free time for once. So, yeah, that's my, that's what happened to me just the other day. It's funny you brought that up. You're also going on tour in Romania next year. Oh, yeah. I'm working, yeah. Is that somewhere you've been before?

Yes, I shot my movie, Alvirus Haunted Hills in Romania in the region that was Transylvania. And it is awesome. It's fantastic. So beautiful. people are kind and it was just a wonderful place to be it's a little bit like going back to the 16th century but i'm really looking forward to that we've had this tour plan for now three years because we were ready to go we sold out we had all the people going with us and it it was a pandemic happened so it was canceled then we get to do it it's all set for may and the ukrainian war happens and it's on the

border of Romania, very nearby, and we canceled. So we're trying it one more time. I really hope it works out because I'm just dying to go over there and kind of revisit all of the scenery and the people from shooting my movie there for so many months. It's wonderful. I've never been there, but it's also such a special place in terms of what you have brought, you know, to that region. A final question. If I were to ask you, you know, what do you feel Elvira represents for people? What do you see you've kind of contributed, you know, to our world of media with Elvira? Well, I hear this all the time from fans.

So I can hardly believe it sometimes. People come up to me and whether they were overweight when they were a child or gay when they were child or in some way just they didn't fit in. They say that I was a major influence that Elvira was a major influence to them to stand up to bullies, to feel like being an outsider, a geek is okay. And I'm just, I'm shocked and amazed by the people that tell me that story. I've even had people say, I was going to kill myself. And then I saw Elvira Mistres of the Dark, the movie.

And it gave me confidence. I mean, I'm like, really? It's hard for me to believe. But I've heard it a million times. So I'm going to have to believe it by now. So that's the happiest thing. For me, that's the best, best part about being Elvira. If I changed one or two people's life, and I think possibly a lot more for the better than my job here is done.

It's been such a pleasure to get to talk to you. I mean, my childhood self is just freaking the fuck out. I mean, it's just really, it's incredible and also just so wonderful to hear, yeah, to hear more about you and to, you know, get to see you as a mom and an entrepreneur. And it's just amazing, really, really amazing. Thank you. Well, thank you. Boy, I love this show.

It's just a flatter beginning to the end. That's fantastic. you. It has been such a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much. And we wish you the best with the tour and with the book as well. Thank you so much. This was a lot of fun. I really appreciate it. That was like getting to meet my childhood babysitter. My brother and I spent so many hours with that woman in front of the television. And, you know, it's funny because my parents were very careful about what I watched. And, you know, I wasn't allowed to see R-rated movies. There was no PG-13 then. You know, my mom was.

was raised very, very religious, and my dad was also raised, you know, very conservative. And although they had their kind of hippie phase, they were pretty socially conservative. Elvira was the exception to that rule because she was so, she was so otherworldly. I mean, I don't want to say she was like a cartoon character because that sounds demeaning, but I mean her identity, it's like she was beyond a person. She was this, like, sexy, awesome presence that you could not say no to. it doesn't track for me if your parents are

very protective of their child, this woman you're like, yeah, sure, no problem. But that's what I'm saying. She was different. I mean, she was clearly a woman and very sexy, but because of, I mean, and this is just the way I'm kind of thinking about it, I didn't sexualize her. I mean, culture was very different then, but I didn't

think of her like I thought of, you know, Angeline or like when I heard about Playboy magazine. You know, she wasn't that because and again, this is no insult to the women in Playboy magazine. I didn't get to know them, right? You would just hear about them where people would, you know, post-pitch. I also was not reading the interviews and I wasn't looking at Playboy magazine. But what I'm saying is her identity, it had so much personality and she had,

she was a really fleshed out character. And I don't know that that makes it better, worse. I'm not- But that let you watch the horror movies? No, I think that I was more interested in what she would say in, like, like, her shtick. But did you watch the horror movies? that were presented? Yeah, yeah, but they weren't gory. Like, the ones that my brother and I would watch, like those specials, they weren't. It wasn't like super gore.

We were watching, like, old monster movies, like, sometimes from, like, the 50s and 60s. Like, you know, it was, it was so niche. Like, it was, I was never into slasher movies or anything like that, but it was this vibe, you know, and especially on Halloween, like, sometimes we'd trick or treat, but, like, that wasn't a holiday

that my parents grew up with. So, like, other kids did it, but, like, they really, honestly could care less. But we were, we'd sometimes, like, go out with friends, but we would just watch Alvira when we came home. I took Halloween very, very seriously. Oh, they do that in Canada.

It's not just Canadians. I would like map out the neighborhoods. Well, that's because you were a, first of all, I would get a pillowcase, not just like a plastic bag or one of those pumpkins. I would go to different neighborhoods. Yeah, okay. Well, this is a very different, you know, experience.

And I also think, you know, I think there was something, I mean, she said it herself. Like there was more, she had more freedom as a person. And I mean, I think there's so much, like, deep psychology to this identity she created and live. Imagine, I mean, I have no idea if she has any idea who I am. But imagine if I had a different persona and I wasn't me. And I love that. When she was like, oh, I got to party.

I had to have so much fun. I was like, tell me about it. What do they do with the people? What is it like to do? What does it like to do? What does it like to be yourself at a party? the saddest. Anyway, that was really, really cool.

I loved she talked about energy. I wanted to tell her about my house, which... We think is a little bit haunted, but you've had people try to come and clear it. Things got better after... Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, things absolutely change. I'm just being honest with you.

We were hanging out last night, and then when you left... The house creaked, and you got scared? No, it wasn't just creaking and, like, sorry. We might as well do this. I knew where the cats were. They were not running around. You ain't afraid of no ghost? I am afraid of every ghost and most humans.

This is a really awesome way to enter these final days of October as all Hallows Eve approaches. I don't like anything about Halloween. I'm scared already. Really? Of everything in the supermarkets. I'm afraid something's going to jump up at me. I literally, I'm very scared. Yeah, but what I do like, what I do like, sorry, this is possibly the nerdiest thing I've ever said, I do like Edgar Allen Poe a lot.

We're going to do an Instagram live on Halloween. Stay tuned, yo. We might even have a few items to auction off that are spooky. There might even be an Edgar Allan Poe book. We're like the two least Halloweeny people. Exactly, and we're doing an Instagram live. It's going to be awesome. Let's do it.

I might make my vegan bark. It's the one thing I do on Halloween. I make vegan Halloween bark. Getting wild over here. Really, really special. I know you don't understand how deeply this was important for me and for Valerie. But it's honestly very, very, very fascinating to speak to her and to get to see that person behind this woman who really was ahead of her time in terms of owning so much of herself. Yeah, really just freaking awesome.

From our spooky breakdown. from our spooky breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's my and biolics breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fiction.

And now she's going to break down.