Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Danica McKellar: Listen to Your Truth Bell

Episode Date: November 30, 2021

Danica McKellar (The Wonder Years actress, author, producer, speaker, and mathematician) joins us to discuss what it was like to play the character of “Winnie Cooper” in The Wonder Years, and her struggle to find her identity separate from the iconic dreamgirl role. She discusses how she managed to stay grounded while growing up in the public eye, overcoming her insecurities, and the spiritual lessons she has learned from studying the patterns in her life. Danica explains why she took a break from acting to study math, the empowerment it offered her, and her passion for making math accessible to everyone. Mayim breaks down the clinical definition of hoarding and the science behind giving birth and motherhood. She considers the causes of child development delays in another installment of Ask Mayim Anything.  Danica's math website: https://mckellarmath.com/ BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I have this early memory that you'd been to the gynecologist, and I had never been before. We're probably 16. And you were telling the story, and you had, you were holding court. I was one of several actresses who were all listening to you. This has been a wonderful interview. Thank you, Danica Keller. And you were out of attention. And you were telling us what happens when you have a gynecologist about?

We were like, oh my God, are you kidding me? When I had my first appointment, I thought of you. I think of you almost every time. Time, Beiolics break down. She's going to break it down for you. Because you know, she's. knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down.

So break it down. Hi, I am I. I am Bialik and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where you break things down so you don't have to. And today we're going to be breaking down a variety of things that no one expected. We're speaking to Danica McHellar. And you may know her as Winnie Cooper from The Wonder Years, but she also has an incredible life as a mathematician. She has contributed research to a theorem, which her name is part of that theorem. She's testified

before Congress about math and the importance of math. And she's just really, really cool. And she and I grew up together. But before we get into that, someone who I spiritually grew up with, Jonathan Cohen. Hi, my name. My co-pilot. How's it going? Good. We're in our new setup here. I don't know if people will notice. We've lost two desks and turned it into a table. To become one. That's a spice girl's song. That's pretty good.

Thanks. I wish I could sing. Yeah, we are closer. That's true. And we're going to be talking to Danica. She's got a funny story about me. I'm just going to say it right now. It's a funny episode.

Very unexpected episode. Very unexpected. We talk about a little bit of her journey growing up, you know, kind of in the public eye, but how she sort of stayed very grounded. And we talk a bit about math. We also talk about like parenting. I don't know how to it. The divine intuition and brilliant alchemy of the motherhood?

She's a very, very, she's very articulate. Like she's the kind of person like, like, it doesn't sound like she's reciting a speech, but just like she's like a flawless person. And she says she has faults, but like, you can't. I just said the motherhood when I meant to say, the female I wasn't listening. I was thinking about how shiny her hair is.

She looks very put together, unlike I do today. She also is one of the biggest draws on the Hallmark Channel, producing and starring in movies. And you may have caught You Me and the Christmas Trees, which just right smack dab in October, is introducing us to the kickoff that Hallmark does, counting down to Christmas, as it were. She also is going to soon appear judging Fox's Domino Masters, which is set for early 2022. And I've been playing dominoes actually for the last several days with my son. So it's kind of just like a funny random domino thing. She has several groundbreaking bestselling books.

And she will talk a little bit about that. She writes kids books and teen books about math. People haven't already subscribed to the podcast. Do so. Do that. We love that. podcast. Give us a five-star review and click the bell notification icon on MyM's YouTube channel. For those of you not watching, you don't know that Jonathan squints his eyes in a very particular

way when he talks about subscribing. Subscribe. Why not? All right, let's welcome Danica McKellar. Welcome to our breakdown. It's really, really nice to speak to you. We have a long history together, which I've told Jonathan bits and pieces of. You obviously started acting earlier than I did, but we overlapped in our teen years. We know what year do you start? So I started, well, so I'm 45. Okay. I'm 46. Right. And I started on Blossom when I was 14. But when beaches came out, we did some teen events together. You were already, you know, very successful, very well known. But, but, we did some teen events together where we would like go random places and ride horses and they would take pictures of us. It was like a whole group of teens. It was like you and your sister and Seth Green

and I think Will Wheaton might have been there at one point. Anyway, there was like a whole gang of us. And anyway, it's really, really nice to get to also have some time with you because we kind of keep bumping into each other and we have a lot of similar stuff. I feel like we lead sort of parallel lives and have for a very long time. And we've really only interacted a handful of times, but I feel like we should be interacting more. Well, this could just be a series of geeky things that I say to Danica McHellar.

Might be this episode. Let's do it. So, Danica, you are from La Jolla, correct? Yes. So my middle name is Hoya, because I was supposed to be born in La Jolla, and instead I was born in San Diego proper, which is where my grandparents were living.

Okay. So my middle name is spelled H-O-Y-A, not J-O-L-L-A. Anyway, that's just a random thing that I thought I should tell Danica. Here's something, here's a place to start. I started in the industry at 11 and I always felt like I wasn't, I just didn't feel like I fit. And I, you know, I remember that the times that we got to spend together, like I said, you were, I mean, you are. And you were, you were very beautiful. You were very charismatic. Like, it felt like you were the popular girl. And I don't mean that in a bad way. But I remember, if you were. You were very beautiful. You were very charismatic. Like, it felt like you were the popular girl. And I don't mean that in a bad way. But I remember. But I remember. feeling like very intimidated by, well, I know, but you were on a very popular show. It was like really a big deal. Yeah, but I, see, I've never been the popular girl because I'm always, I mean, I'm surprised you described me as charismatic. That's very sweet and unexpected because I have always been really the nerd in the corner. I, I always felt, and even, you know, even on the Wonder Years,

I always felt like I was the one who was kind of in the show the least, you know, and I was always going to school. I was only there, maybe one or two days a week. And I was. I was mostly in school, so I never really identified. I mean, I just, that's interesting to hear you say that. I have this early memory, and I don't remember where we were. If we were something, and you had been, I mean, not to get to a TMI, but you'd been to the gynecologist, and I had never been before. We're probably 16, and you were telling the story, and you had, you were holding court.

I was one of several actresses who were all listening to you. This has been a wonderful interview. Thank you, Danica Keller. And you were telling us what happens when you have a gynecala. We were like, oh my God, are you kidding me? And you're like, oh, yeah. No, they go away up there. And I was like, we were all just and you, but you were holding court.

I mean, you were truly holding, we were all just, that's, that's what I remember. This is a horrible story that you came on. No. Did I traumatize you? She's like, this is why I was in therapy. No, I was so impressed that you'd been through that and lived to tell. And then later on, when I first, when I had my first appointment, I thought of you, I think of you almost every time. Do you take a picture of mime to the gynecologist to give you?

She knows how to do this. So I'm just going to take to her before. There's many things that are amazing about this story. But one of them is, Jonathan, what do I always say about my experience with puberty? That it didn't happen until you were like 38. That's the very late bloomer. What was I doing going to the kind of colleges?

I think we're just a random check. Maybe we're just like a, you know, responsible. But we must have been 17. Yeah, I was going to say that didn't happen when we were 12. Why were you holding a master's class about it? I mean, how old were you? Do you remember how old were you? Okay, so you know what? Let's have this convo. I must have been, yeah, I must have been 17. Yeah. So, yeah.

I felt so, I felt so innocent and out of the loop and just like learning from you. I mean, that's, that's that guy. That hor, myambialic. Remember you. Okay. So not. It's like a source of wisdom and, and like, strength. Because you were like, you were just badass and you'd been through something and you were like telling us all what to expect. and I was just, I was just so impressed.

Well, I guess now we know how I overcompensated when I felt insecure. Well, what I was going to ask, because also, you know, for people who didn't grow up in kind of the Wonder Years era, you know, your character was, people need to know. Like, your character held a really, really special place in the show's kind of history, but also, you know, this notion of like Winnie Cooper was, it was the fantasy, you know, that everybody wanted. And it was kind of like, I mean, at least the way I remember it, it's like, whenever we looked at you, it was as if there was like a soft lens and like a fan. Like it was very, right. It was very idealized. So I actually wanted to know like, what was your kind of experience

of kind of getting to be cast as like that fantasy? Like what, what was that like? Were you like, were you always kind of a shy person? Did you like acting? I mean, because you, they weren't casting me as Winnie Cooper. Just saying. No, but it was very specific, iconic role that you played. I remember reading the script and it said, Winnie Cooper, this is a girl, and I said, she had an allure that only a girl who didn't know what allure meant could have. And I'm saying, Mom, what is that? What is the lore? I had no idea what it was. And I did not have very much acting experience at that time at all. I was not a showman. I didn't have any of that. And that's my guess, my best guess, as to why they just saw just a girl who was a little shy and a little reserved.

And I don't know, I don't know. I guess they saw some sort of allure that a girl who doesn't know what a lure means has. But I will say this, we were not, my sister and I, Crystal and I were not, like we were going on auditions and stuff. But my mom had a rule. Acting was not supposed to take over our life. We were not even allowed to audition for series regular. or any project that would take us outside of Los Angeles. And the role of Winnie Cooper was supposed to just be a guest appearance on the pilot episode.

And that was it. It's the only reason I even auditioned for it. I wouldn't have been allowed to otherwise. And then four days into shooting, the producers said, oh, hey, we really think that Dan and Fred have this cool chemistry. We'd like to offer a serious contract. My mom at first was like, I don't think we're going to do this. I was like, please, you know.

And by that point, we had seen that the other moms, my mom, had noticed. The other moms were very much grounded. They weren't the typical stage mom. They, uh, as soon as that nine and a half hours was up, they pulled us. Because, you know, I'm sure you witnessed it. A lot of moms sister pushed their kids in front of the camera and just like, that was more important than the kid's well-being. And it's sad, but that happens. Where the parents themselves are like trying to get something for the fame and their, and that just wasn't the case. I mean, when the Wonder Years was first nominated for best comedy series, the first year, I had a trip with.

With my dad and my sister that was scheduled, we were going to go river rafting. And that conflicted with the Emmys. And we went on the trip. We didn't go to the Emmys. We went on the trip. And I remember watching the Emmys from this tiny little television set in a motel in Rogue Oregon, the Rogue River in Oregon. And we watched the Wonder Years win.

In my head had been a TV from the 70s. I mean, the thing was tiny. We jumped up and down. We did, yay, we won. And I woke up at 5 in the morning and hit the river and really had the trip of our lives. I mean, I remember I've said great memories from that trip, picking Blackberries on the side of the river and camping out under the stars and stuff that, like, you know,

it just, it was a great trip in it. But more importantly, it taught me priorities. It really taught me priorities because how many parents would have, oh my gosh, we get to go to the Emmys. Let's just move the trip. My dad had a really busy schedule, so he couldn't reschedule. We would have just canceled it. And I said, no, this is more important.

And I love that piece of my childhood history. that I lean on that. Like, yeah, this is, this is like, my parents really kept us grounded. They really had their priority straight and that helped us tremendously. And I believe that that set of priorities that they have is a large part of what has shaped me today and why I'm a relatively well-adjusted ex-child actor. So, I would agree. So you, how long were you on the Wonder years? Six years. Six years. So it ended, how old were you? I was 18. Wow.

So it ended a couple months before I graduated from high school. So when I went to UCLA and I know you and I were at UCLA at the same time, that it was like, okay, new chapter of my life. I'm done with the Wonder Years. I'm taking a break from acting. I'm going to learn filmmaking. That was my plan. But South Campus sucked me in. And only those of you still know what I'm talking about.

South Campus is math and science. I know that you know that. Yes, I know. It's where we wear pajamas. I just loved it. I felt so smart. I felt so powerful and sort of glamorous, I think, because it was something that I was doing and not something that was influenced.

I mean, it's just all the fame and the stuff that's attached to a popular TV show is great. And it feels great. But then, you know, as a teenager, you're kind of wondering, well, who would I be if I didn't have that? What's my value if I don't, if I'm not bad? What if that hadn't happened? like, who am I? You know, we're all trying to figure out who we are at that age anyway. And then, of course, when someone's calling you by a different name, like Winnie or Blossom,

you're like, well, okay, that's great, fine. But also... Yeah, and actually, I found that I got recognized mostly only when I went to North Campus, meaning on South Campus, it was a lot of, like, heads down, like, you know, I was in a pre-med major, and, I mean, sure, people recognized me and, like, professors brought their kids to exams so that the kids could watch me take my... exams that happens. Amazing.

You're like, that's not weird at all. Yeah, not weird at all. But no, but when I would go to North Campus, which is like humanities, I mean, it's like such a stereotype,

but like people dressed nice. I remember my first class in North Campus. I was like, everybody looks so nice. Like, they're so well presented. It's like, oh, they go to parties. They do things like South Campus. You get mono from studying.

Like, you do nothing. You eat in, the cafe in South Campus was called the bomb shelter. The bomb shelter. We ate in a, like it was a renovated bomb shelter was our cafe. Miami-Bi Alex breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful.

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Make this the year you stop guessing about your health with superpower. Superpower. Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just $199, but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional $20 off with the code break. Head to Superpower.com. Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention my ambiolics breakdown to help support the show. You know, since our podcast, you know, does focus on mental health, I guess I would love to kind of ask you a little bit about some of that kind of, you know, teen angst, which many, many people experience and some more strongly.

and more profoundly than others. But, you know, I was on Blossom from the ages of 14 to 19. And those are really just crazy years, no matter what, you know, hormonally and emotionally and everythingly. What was that kind of particular time like, you know, you were, you know, living on a set and, you know, having this kind of like public fame experience. What was that like in terms of your mental health? Like, do you remember feeling anxious or was there depression, you know, like,

do you remember anything from those teen years? I remember being really, really busy. I remember thinking that I should be on, like, or why wasn't I on the show more? There'd be episodes that would go by that I wasn't even on. I mean, that's how my, that's how my insecurities and angst would come up because I'm like, oh, my gosh, do they not like me very much? Because I'm not in this episode. And I wasn't the last week's episode, this coming week I have like one scene. Do they not like me very much?

So like that's the kind of totally, you know, everything scales, right? everyone's pain or suffering scales. For me, I was worried that I was only on, say, a half of the episodes of this incredibly popular TV show instead of all of them. But, yeah, it was a source of insecurity for me. School-wise, I was a very hard worker, went to Westlake, which became Harvard Westlake while I was there.

So it was an all-girl school for a while. Then at Morris for the Boy School and became co-ed, much to my dismay. I didn't, I loved Westlake the way it was. I still haven't gotten over it, actually. We could talk about that for a while. Anyway, it was a good environment at school because I started that school in the seventh grade before I shot the Wonder Years.

This was a few months. It was that six months before it aired. So I already had my group of friends. I didn't have to worry about, well, do these people like me for me or whatever. So that was great. And I just remember studying a lot. And then my mom didn't really let us do any acting over the summers. We could just have regular summers.

is we've gone vacation, family vacation or whatever. Because as you know, when you're in a series, they kind of own you. And so your schedule is their schedule. I mean, they, like, I remember, something I remember that was challenging for me was being in school and then saying, okay, there's going to be a history test next Friday and not knowing if I was going to be there for it or not. Am I going to be a set? I'm going to be here?

Just never really knowing. So that was kind of tough. And I remember when I took away from acting at UCLA, I was like, wow, I know that I'm going to be here. And it was very empowering to such a simple thing as just knowing what my schedule is going to be. Yeah, those were some of the challenges. You know, overall, I really, I really can't complain. I had, I was surrounded by really good people on that set. All the moms were really grounded. All the actors were really grounded. We all went on to get educations. Maybe not Jason Harvey. But Fred and Josh and I and Crystal, my sister too. I mean, you know, Fred went to Stanford and

Crystal went to Yale and Josh went to Yale also. I went to UCLA, but I got a degree in math, so I kind of evens it out. And, you know, we all really valued education and we're, you know, grounded people. So that was really fortunate for me. And I know a lot of actors growing up as a kid on sets don't have that kind of environment. So very, very grateful. Talk to us a little bit about sort of what it was like entering the world and like entering the dating world in particular. You have a son.

How old is he now? he's 11. Oh, 11. Okay. So you were married. I believe you got divorced. You're remarried. What was it like sort of kind of finding an identity separate from, you know, this kind of public perception of you? What was that like? At which point? Oh, like, for example, when you went to college and sort of started entering more of like the normal world. I can give you a history of my dating. Go ahead. Have a great time. I mean, that's what we're doing. Dating. So I had a boyfriend when I was 18 who was, I met an acting class. He wasn't really an actor, but he went to acting class. And so we were together for four years all the way through. I'm a very, like I'm not, I never went to Hollywood parties. To this day, I've never been offered drugs at a party. And that says a lot living in Los Angeles because people just know, they just get that. Like, I hardly ever drink. I'm no fun at all.

I'm a workaholic. I'm all about what am I putting into the world right now? Is it of value? Because if it isn't, then what am I doing? Like, that's kind of very hard of myself. I'm very, very goal-oriented. I really want. And by the way, just in terms of mental health and anyone who's listening to me, I have my faults.

I know, I mentioned before that I have a super messy room right now behind this curtain because I'm purging my closet. I have like piles of stuff everywhere around this house. It's a real problem for me. And I feel like I'm in a confessional right now. But I, in order to do all the things that I do and I really do value productivity, I'm writing books and I'm acting movies. I'm developing movies right now too. And I'm doing all these things. I, how would I have time to also keep things looking tidy?

I don't know how that's even possible. It doesn't really work for me. So, watch my husband because he would like. Do you want to poke a little bit? Do you hoard things? Yes, I hoard bags. Oh, tell us all about it before we talk about your dating. I have a cabinet full. What kind of bags? Like, are they like plastic from the market? No, no, not like, no, like good bags. So like a good to a bag. Oh, this is, we're, okay, tell us what a good bag is, Danica. Oh, it's got a good structure to it now. Good sturdy handles. Yeah. And then also, but also like bags that are,

I can't be telling us. Oh, tell us. Like Nordstrom or even Markers or something like nice store that has bags, you know, bags, you know, bags, you know, I have a bunch of presents and they got to deliver them somehow. So naturally, you need to have those bags. How do you organize the bags? Is there like different sections for the different types? Yeah, there you go.

There are different sections. All right. Hold on one second. Hold on. This is fun. Do you have a special number? The number three? There it is.

Yeah. How about you? We all know I've got a lot of quirks. Oh, I have a number. I mean, three is one of my numbers, but also nine because it's three. Yeah. 27, though, is a little more pure, isn't it? 27 is very nice because it's nine and three multiplied. Yes. But I have a lot of... It was three cubed. Yeah, yeah. Right. I have a lot of, I got a lot of things with numbers. Like three. Is that what three feels like to you? No, three cubed. Oh, got it. 27s. Yeah, yeah. No, I get it. I forgot. I'm really big on your screen right now, so that was probably scary. Exactly. It's just someone saying three cubed.

I also have a lot of clothes. Like a lot of clothes. The thing is that I wear them all. I save clothes for a long time, but I wear them. You strike me as the kind of person who changes outfits every two hours, even when you're hanging out by yourself. Like let's put on this. Like your Instagram is delightful. You have a lot of cute clothes. I probably, I do because like, oh, I'm going to work out now. Now I want to be a little more comfy right now. Now I'm going to do a little Instagram. So yeah, I got to put something on. Okay. So what I was poking at, and I'm not trying to diagnose you as anything, but I was trying to see if there's a little bit of hoarding, a little bit on the OCD spectrum, but I could be totally wrong.

Oh, hoarding sometimes goes up. Okay, I thought OCD was the opposite of hoarding. Because OCD is like everything has to be perfect. No, but hoarding can be a feature of OCD. Yeah, well, trust me. But tell us more about the bag. Wait, are you a hoarder too? Well, I have obsessive compulsive disorder, yes.

And one of my features is, well, they call them useless items clinically. I don't think they're useless. Clinical about it. I want to, yeah. Yeah, I do. I do collect items of useless value is the clinical diagnosis. Since I'm a kid, I've been like this. My dad was the same.

Like, there are certain items like that I just really like. And sometimes I can't, like, but just to clarify, I think it's important because when people hear, oh, you're a hoarder, they soon. Yeah, I don't like a word hoarder. That sounds too negative. I think of those houses, the TV shows. No, that's not it. Collector.

Well, that's why I want to clarify because people have a notion that you're like, oh, you're just like finding pathways through the house. And Mimes isn't like that at all. It's more of the collection. Why did this become Danica interviewing me? Here's the story with some of the hoarding. And also, I'm not using it loosely. This is a very specific thing.

So stationary is one of the things in my life that I have hoarded. Bathroom supplies is another thing I have hoarded. Pompoms? I collect pom-poms. I don't hoard them. But the difference between hoarding and kind of collecting is that, for hoarding, like, I would have an amount of things that never could be used and were not used. Like stationary? How much stationary would you have?

Oh, I can't even, I mean, there was a period where I did, I go, I mean, I, again, I don't know where this interview just went. My mind's telling you, it's because we don't spend time together and we reach it because I feel like we have a lot to talk about. I mean, I don't know, like a lot of station, like an obscene amount that never could be. Like a closet full of station. Oh, like a full bucket, full. And the fact is when I would go to a hotel, and this is why it's, you know, I felt a compulsive need. Like it didn't feel right to not, you know, take those things.

And, you know, that's, anyway. So let me tell this. Now I'm not bad about myself. No, this is, I think it's totally normal. Like you think it's cute that she hoards bags. I can't hoard soap. You can have as much soap as you want. I'm curious to tie this back to the bags,

because, Danica, I'm wondering, if you saw like a bag that you were like, oh, that's a nice bag, but you know that you have no need for it. You've got a dozen of them. You would still take it, right? I mean, I wouldn't like, if it were a bag that I had taken into my house because I was taking something into the house, see, that's how it happens. Yes, I keep it.

Right. I wouldn't necessarily take it, but I would like, oh, it's here. Well, gosh, I mean, I don't want to throw it away. That's the thing. It's a perfectly good bag. Right. And this was like, just throw it away. And every now I'm like, here, just take it.

You take it. I don't want to see it throw it away. Don't let me see this happen because, but I don't. I really, I really, I'm, it's funny that we're having this conversation because today I'm just on this like rampage of, I love it, home. I do, I'm so busy, which is such a blessing. I'm so glad, but I just collect stuff and like bags of things that, you know, like, I'm like, okay, I need, I want to use this bag, but there's like all this stuff and this bag that I haven't used for a while. And I don't know. So I'll dump it into another bag. Today, I went through three bags that I've dumped

stuff into and I've like categorized everything and threw a bunch of stuff away. And I have to find, I have to find home for all the stuff because I don't want to throw them all away. All right, let's talk a little bit. I'm just going to go ahead and do it. Hoarding is the persistent difficulty discarding or parting with possessions, regardless of their actual value. The behavior often has deleterious effects, emotional, physical, social, financial, even legal. So symptoms, inability to throw away possessions.

Here's a kicker. Severe anxiety when attempting to discard items. Now, I'm also not wanting people to think like, oh, because you have a hard time throwing out whatever, that letter from your first boyfriend, whatever. That doesn't mean you are a hoarder, but these are just some of the symptoms. Difficulty categorizing or organizing possessions. Indecision about what to keep or where to put things. Distress, such as feeling overwhelmed or embarrassed by possessions. Suspicion of other people touching items. That's a big one for me. Obsessive thoughts and actions. Fear of running out of an item or needing it in a few,

like what if I don't have? Checking the trash for accidentally discarded items. objects. Functional impairments, like loss of living space, like, I can't use these. Well, but. Yeah, that sounds like, it sounds like it goes to a much more extreme place, at least than that I've experienced. Both of you sound a little bit judgy. Little judgy. I think there's like a spectrum, right? Like all things we talk about. We're all just, we're all just on a spectrum. But there's like, I may have been called. I actually had a co-star once who, who jokingly thought that I was on the like spectrum for like autism because of being very particular.

about things and being very like whatever pedantic I guess but uh you know I think you can like no I'm just a difficult person deal with it maybe I'm just really difficult there I think we can we can create a lot of labels and then we can you know look at those definitions and then and then part of that category but that might be limiting it might be I don't think anybody can be defined by any one diagnosis or or label I think that might be almost dangerous but But at the same time, on the other side, I love a good label. It can be helpful to understand yourself and connect with others who are going through the same stuff.

So I see that too. This is why we talk about the spectrum is because people have tendencies of. And the definition she read is like the all encompassing, this is everything that could be included. But someone might have a tendency of, oh, I like to collect a lot of things. And I have a difficulty throwing them out or organizing them or having anxiety of letting them go. So you wouldn't necessarily say, I'm a hoarder, but you could have hoarder.

but you can have hoarding tendencies or qualities. Well, and also, like, for me, you know, it's a really, it's an interesting point because, you know, when I was a kid, we used to take walks in the neighborhood. And, you know, I'm not saying, like, the activity was picking garbage up off the street, but sometimes you find little tidbits on your walks, and I would pocket them, which kids sometimes do.

You know, you find little things that are, and this is one of those aspects of me that, like, just didn't really grow up. So for me, when I found out, you know, I didn't find out that I actually meet the criteria for OCD until I was in college. And it was a psychiatrist that I saw, and he started asking me all these questions. And one of the questions was, do you have a number? And my answer was, doesn't everyone? He's like, well, tell me about your number.

And I'm like, well, how much time do we have? And I like had a whole thing. But for me, there was also a sense of, I don't want to say empowerment, but there was a sense of comfort to finding out that the anxiety I had around the objects that I wanted around me, that it wasn't so much that it was pathological, but that it existed as a feature of me that doesn't need to change, you know? And there's many things about me and my mental health that do need work, you know, and that I continue to work on and be reminded of every day.

but for things especially like this, like it is very comforting. And I'm going to tell a story about my mother to embarrass her. The pandemic triggered for a lot of people, a lot of fear, and much of it was extremely justified. You remember in those early days, we didn't know would we'd be able to get toilet paper, we'd be able to get this.

And my mother grew up in poverty where everything was scarce. And when that pandemic hit, she went into like survival mode. And she was like, She'd go around to, like, different places to get toilet paper. She had an arsenal. And this is something that she and I share paper goods also.

Like, there's been times in my life where the number of paper napkins and plates that the army could not. You don't even use paper napkins. But I keep them just in case. And sometimes they're pretty. The little silver, like the plastic wear packets. Yes. Totally. How many?

Is it a thing? Do they need to be organized? I can't close the drawer. I made a deal of myself. I won't have any more then we'll fit in this drawer. On this episode of Myambiolics breakdown, Deheda Kempi Keller finds out that she's obsessive-compulsing.

Well, I'm not tidy enough to be OCD. There's a lot of variability. There you go. Well, it's kind of like with ADD. Like, there's a lot of also variation in ADD. A lot of people think of like a kid like bouncing off the walls and can't sit still. But it actually manifests all sorts of different ways.

Let's get back to dating because I am curious. Yeah. Somehow we went from dating to collecting bags and then, but yeah. Okay, so dating. So I had a boyfriend when I was 18 until I was like 21 or whatever, 17 and 21. And then that ended and right that was in the middle of college. And then I met somebody in math class actually who was super hot and like fun or whatever. And so we dated for obviously smart.

We dated for a couple years. And I mean, I never, you know. there was always that thought of my mind like is somebody extra interested in me because of the whole Winnie Cooper thing. But it didn't, there was only one time when it really hit me. And that was on an independent film that I did years ago. I was single at the time. And the guy who was in the movie, and it wasn't like a co-star thing. We were just both in the movie. It was an ensemble cast. And it was the kind of thing where we would always sort of catch each other's eye. We'd like get the same jokes. And we kind of like, we're just on the same wavelength. But he had a girlfriend. So I wasn't going to like do anything.

I don't do that. I don't mess around. Never, I've never cheated on anyone. I've never been part of cheating ever. It's really important to me. So anyway, the last day, we're saying goodbye. We're staying at the same hotel and everything. We're saying goodbye instead. He goes, hey, so, you know, do you want to like get a pizza, go to my room or whatever? We could hang out last night. And I'm like, oh, my God. And I thought, oh, okay, so he feels this connection to, but, and I said, look, I'm, you know, you have a girlfriend. I just, I thank you so much for the invitation. I'm sure be great, but I just don't feel right about it. He's like, he's like, no, no, I get it. It's just, it's just, and I thought he was going to say, it's just that we have this connection.

Oh, no. I just always had this Winnie Cooper fantasy. No. I mean, I was livid and all the feelings that I had of like being torn, like, oh, this person who would maybe, maybe in another life, I was like, dead. Which I was actually good because I'm like, you know, what's screw you? I couldn't believe it. I was so mad. I didn't say that to him, but I was just like, right. Do you want to name him right now? I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. Yeah.

Well, I mean, you know what? Like that moment, I just, I don't know. Maybe that's happened lots of times and they just didn't say it out loud. Probably. Probably. But my first husband, I swear, one of the ways that he got me was by telling me that he really had never seen the wonder years, which I found out later wasn't true. But he knew, but he knew.

He was very, very, very smart man. Anyway, we had a child together. I can't say anything bad about him. He's actually incredibly intelligent, great guy, great dad, didn't work out between us. But yeah, that was like really alluring to me because I was like, wow, somebody who is going to get to know me first and not be getting to me to know me on top of another character. And my husband now, my forever husband, I hope, we, so we've been together for seven years, or married for almost seven years, together for eight.

And he'd seen the show, but like it wasn't a big deal. And it didn't really, I don't know. I was so smitten by him that I almost didn't even care. It's interesting. I maybe I don't know, but we were set up. The mutual friends was kind of an acquaintance of mine, but a friend of his. Draco was in preschool and one of the other moms,

her husband is partners at the same law firm as my husband, Scott. And so she was like, hey, I don't know if this is weird. You know, we didn't understand that well. But my husband's close friend just got out of this two-year relationship and he was married, you know, five years before that. And he's got this son and da-da-da-da. And, you know, he's just a really great guy and going on about what a great personality he has. And then she's like, and I don't know if it matters, but he used to model.

She's like, I'm not sure this is a good thing or a bad thing. I'm thinking that sounds like a good thing. But he was great. And we just really hit it off. He had a child and you obviously have a child. Yes. And one of the things that the mutual friend told me warned me about actually, she said, just you know, though, he's all about his son.

Like that actually got in the way of his past relationship that he was with someone for two years and they were engaged, but it just didn't work out because he was all about his son. Like, well, I'm all about my son. So this could work. And it's true. And we really, we've come together, but our sons are our priorities. And then we're also together. And we have a great synergy and a great relationship.

but if I didn't have what he has, I wouldn't understand it. And same with him. So it works out really well because we just are both really involved parents and we get to be partners together. But I'll say, so in between my two marriages was about a year and a half. And I, you know, I have this one-year-old and I'm living at my mom's house. And I just, you know, for a while I didn't even try to date. because I was just over the whole thing. I couldn't believe everything had gone down.

And I'm not going to tell that story, but a lot of stuff went down. That was unexpected and not good. And I was just over the whole thing. And then when I started feeling kind of ready to date, I'd always been curious about those e-harmony ads. You know, I'm like, well, could they find somebody that's great for you? I mean, could that work?

And so I joined e-harmonie, Match.com, and J-Date. I'm not Jewish, but you can check that. box off saying you're not Jewish. I just look just looking for a nice Jewish boy. That's awesome. No, we appreciate you taking our men. It's great. To your point, I didn't end up with someone from J-Day. To your point, I was like, how am I going to put myself on a dating site? Like, that's like, so I used the name Monica instead of Danica and I didn't use my picture. I went online. I was still like proud of myself for this. I went online and I found, I googled people who, like Winnie Cooper lookalikes, found somebody who looks

darn similar to me and I used her picture instead of mine, called myself Monica, and I just talked about writing math books because that's something else I also do. I didn't say I was an actress. It's true. I write math books. I have for 15 years now. So at that point, I've been doing it for like over five. And I, uh, so that part was true. But then of course, the first date with each person, I think I only had three dates, like one from each of those, maybe two from one of them. And I dated one person for six months. Wow. Funny sitting down to the federal state, like, okay, so my name's not Monica.

Hi, I'm Janica. Here's why I lied. Glad of Rob for the right start would get a little dose of deception. What do you like about Jewish men? Well, actually, my husband is half Jewish. We'll take him. No, but I'm curious. Like what, I mean, I know that, I mean, I know all the things.

I grew up in Los Angeles. I mean, my best friends are all Jewish. I don't know why. And I'm not Jewish, but it's just like I like, there's something about the culture that I just seem to identify with and I seem to get along with. We appreciate that. You know, and it's funny because Scott, my husband wasn't raised as Jewish. His dad, it's his dad's side.

It's Jewish. And his dad, when he, they moved from New Jersey to Southern California when he was like in junior high or something. And he was just ruthlessly teased for being a New York Jew. And he decided to sort of denounce his. Judaism and he kind of decided that he was he decided that he wasn't Jewish anymore which is so weird it doesn't really work like I mean it took me months before Scott even told me that I'm like your dad can't just not be Jewish what because I'm oh that's right because Scott told me about his Jewish grandmother

I'm like oh that's that's a fun like expression to use whatever right he's like no she's really I'm like wait but then aren't you Jewish he's like well my dad's your dad's Jewish why didn't I mean great but what that's so he's like no but not really anymore like you can't know you kind of can't I promise. Yeah, so I ended up with a half Jewish. Got it. Did you ever think about having more kids or you're kind of happy with your blended family? We tried for years.

I mean, technically we haven't stopped trying, I guess. I don't need to know about your sex life, but this just became that conversation. Oh, well. No problem with that department. But he did get a vasectomy after his first marriage and then we tried to reverse it. It just didn't take. And the thing is, I know. know I could do IVF. I just don't want to. And I don't, I can't describe why. I'm, I'm, I'm,

a health nut. I think you are too. Just yet another thing that I think we have in common. Yeah. And I just, I don't like extra stuff in my system. I just, it's just not for me, you know, for some reason, the idea of, of doing IVF just, um, didn't feel right. And as a guttural thing, I don't even, my brain wasn't even involved. I actually went through the whole process. I, I met with a doctor. to an embryologist. I did the financial stuff because they needed to make sure that you can pay for it. And when they called me to tell me that my prescription was ready, I got this horrible sinking feeling in my stomach like they're like, your poison is ready now. I just couldn't do it. I just chickened out or whatever you want to call it. It just wasn't for me.

Some things you don't know why you know, but I think for whatever reason my body wouldn't have reacted well. And somehow my cells and my body knew that and just, like, like, you know, the hormone therapy wouldn't have gone well. Are you a spiritual person, a religious person? I'm not a religious person, but I have a relationship with God slash the universe, and I'm still not sure what I'm referring to that as. I go back and forth. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't raised with religion, but I know there's something else out there.

Right. And obviously, as a scientist, I'm sure you get asked that, and people kind of get very confused when they hear that, like, there are scientists who also have faith. How do you describe how you reconcile that? You know, that I mean, as you get older, you realize that there are no actual experts who know everything. You know, when you're little, you think your parents know everything. And then as you get older, you realize, wait, nobody actually knows for sure anything. So really the buck stops here. What does that mean?

It means that you have to go with what feels right and what works for you and what makes sense to you on every level. For me, you know, things that you read something, you hear something, and it just strikes, it rings your truth bell. I tell my son, you've got a truth bell and some things are going to ring that. And that's how you know, that's right for you, whatever it is. And that just some things just ring that. And this idea that everything happens for a reason, this idea that there's some other infinite organizing power that is guiding us that we can either be in sync with or not in sync

with, depending on how much we accept our circumstances versus fight them, this is all, none of this is scientific, but it's all very real for me. And it's been pretty consistent. And being in my 40s now, I've had enough life experience to see the patterns and to understand that that does make sense for me. So I try to listen, you know, to whatever guidance there is out there, try to accept what's going on instead of fight it and stay open to whatever the right thing is to do in that There's a book called The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success by Deepak Chopra that I absolutely love. And if somebody were to say, what's your Bible? That would be it.

That is the book that resonates the most for me, that rings my truth bell on almost every single page. I like this concept of a truth bell. Do you know that book? I know the book, but I'm just sort of digging on your use of truth bell. There's something else that we have in common, which is fun. And I think it's really important also to talk about and normalize. you breastfed extensively. I mean, you know.

Right, which is a very healthy amount of time. I'm a lactation educator counselor. So I counsel all sorts of women and families. And yeah, can you talk a little bit? Like, did you always know that you wanted to breastfeed? Like, did you plan on breastfeeding that long? I think it's really cool and important to talk about. Yeah, well, my mom had breastfed me.

And I remember her talking about it and talking about all the health benefits. She breast fed me for a year. So that's kind of what I always imagined I'd do too. But the more I read about it, the more I was like, we don't have to stop until it doesn't work for you guys anymore, whatever that means. And after a year, he was actually kind of a late eater. He didn't start eating until about a year.

I tried to feed him something six months, no interest, eight months, no interest, 10 months, maybe, kind of. And about a year, he was interested in outside food. He's getting what he needed, what can I say? Right. And so I just, you know, we ended up becoming where it was just at night and in the morning. But there was, I remember this one time when he was, he just learned a walk and he was

kind of running. He probably should have been and he shipped and fell and split his lip on, on a, like a stare on my mom's front porch. And he was inconsolable, but I could breastfeed him and he calmed right down. Yep. I remember him looking, this way he's looking at me like, like I'm going to be okay, aren't I? It was unbelievable. And he was about a year.

a little more than a year at that point. And I mean, all sorts of health benefits, I would, I would pump. And then I remember one time I was starting to get a sore throat, I gargled with my own breast milk, gone. I was like, wow. And I read about that. But I was so impressed. I'm still in, I'm in awe of the female human body's ability to create this perfect, I'll say formula, but you know what I mean? You made it in the math sense. Yes. Yeah, that gives your child everything that need. When it gets hot outside, you know, it becomes more, more liquidy, more watery. When it's colder, it becomes thicker. If you kiss your baby on their forehead, you get, you know, there's a feedback system. And when they suck on your, there's a feedback system. You give them the antibodies that they

need. Like, you create for them what they need. It's a miracle. And I felt like some sort of goddess when I was creating this food for my child was interesting because I tried to pump. I actually, So I have a really close friend who still close friends with them. They had a baby a few months before Draco and a very, very premature. So this baby was born at 26 weeks. And the mom wasn't able to breastfeed. So they had someone who donated milk for the first three months. And then that relationship went away and was right around them that I gave birth.

And so I started pumping for them. And the only way that I could ever get enough pump milk was if I was feeding Drake on the other side. So I was like, you pump on the side and drink them at three. in the morning is the only time it would work. Otherwise, I, in general, so we gave them milk for three months, which is awesome. That's beautiful. My friends still say that they drank at the same bar when they were a little. I have, there's a child in our community that I pumped for. And whenever I see him, I'm like, he's made of meat. But I have a hard time pumping. And, you know, you might, a lot of women might think that they don't have very much milk if they just is often. But the pump is not an accurate

measure of how much milk you do that. No, I would try to pump. And I would hardly get anything. I'd maybe pump, If I was lucky on a good day, it was three or four ounces, usually only an ounce or two. I was a copious producer, Dan. On the other hand, Draco would be, that's my son, he'd be, I put him on the same breast that I'd just been trying to, and he, within a moment or two, he was gulping and milk would be spilling. There's science to it, I promise. Where is that coming from?

Yeah. Had plenty of milk. And I never weighed him to see if he was getting enough food because he had clearly drinking as much as he wanted. Right. This idea that your baby was supposed to get fat at a certain, like, I don't know. marching beat. I don't, but I, you know, every, every mom has to do what they feel is right for them, you know, and a lot of that's going to be based on what they were raised with and what they

understand be true, what their body is telling them. I just, for any woman who's listening, I just encourage you to find resources to reach out to people because you might think you can't do it, but you probably can. There's a good chance anyway. Some women can't. But it's a very, very small percentage. You use the resources of the Leche League, which I did as well. which is a really wonderful mom-to-mom support group. And I went to classes at the pump station. Yep, there are some facilities that do have classes as well. But also those can be cost prohibitive,

whereas La Leche League is a free service to the community, which is really wonderful. I respect that about you very much, not because it happens to align with my philosophy, but I think it's just really important that we normalize it. And I also think, you know, our culture has a huge impact on how we view breastfeeding and motherhood. And I think it really is important.

for women like you who are prominent, who are attractive, who are having, you know, exciting and successful lives to show that they can also balance that with a life that involves being attached to your child for the purposes of breastfeeding. Don't you agree, Jonathan? I actually think it's important to have scientific women talk about the miracle and the synchronicity of how the body is designed to be attached to this other human being and the intelligence in it. I think that, you know, when you talk about being a superhero, seeing a child who's inconsolable suddenly be consoled, seeing, you know, the intuition of a mother when their milk lets down, it is quite miraculous and an experience like, you know, it is. And it's, we father types don't get to have.

Well, and I think that's also something, you know, my field of neuroscience did include endocrinology and things directly related to oxytocin and vasopressin and the milk ejection reflex, as it were, and also labor and the contractions of orgasm. Like, those are all kind of governed by the hormone that was, you know, part of my thesis. So your thesis was on orgasms. Not on orgasms, no. Sounds like your thesis was on orthodox. I actually studied obsessive compulsive disorder.

No, you have all these fancy terms, but I'm going to say it sounds like your thesis. You're like, I know what I want to study. Anywho, a lot of people think that, like, oh, because you're a scientist, that's why you breastfed or, oh, you know, that kind of parenting is for people who are scientists or elite rich white people. And the fact is, you know, if you watch how primates parent and you watch also how most mammals parent, that's what you see is you see babies who are very, very close to mom and who nurse frequently and kind of nap all day. I mean, it's a very good life when you're a baby primate and also a baby mammal. But it's so funny because we don't think of ourselves as

animals like that. And to me, that's not something that only scientists can understand. That's not something that only Mayambiolic and Danica McKellar understand. No, and can we talk? Can we talk? I'm really enjoying all the going into TMI areas with you for some reason. I don't know why. Probably because of our history and you first sung me about your gynecology. We just started with a speculum, didn't we?

Speaking of us as animals, have you heard of or did you do placenta and capsicine? Of course I did. You're asking if I ate my placenta? Of course I did. Yes, me too. I turned the rest of it into art. I had, do you have your little um belcal? cord a shape of a heart? Oh, no, I have

no, there's an artist who took extracts of various things and framed them in gold. They're beautiful and they hang on my wall. I've seen them. You wouldn't know what they are. One is milk, one is umbilical cord. I didn't do that like umbilical cord art. That actually, I don't

think that was around when... Did you do like the placenta pills? Did you make a cake? Like, what do you do? Okay, so some people will blend it or turn it into a soup. No, also my second child was born in call, which means his bag of waters was intact. So we also dried, yeah, we also dried that out. No, she dried out the placenta and then she made it into powder. And I still have like one.

Danica wants that bag. Danica can't have that bag. I have some pills left too because and also this tincture that they made me. And I haven't brought my, I haven't, I haven't been able to bring myself, this is the horror thing to throw it out. To use the last pills because what if I really needed them? The truth is during the pandemic, wait, wait. What are you going to need them for? I was like, I should probably take those because I'm trying to pay. I'm panicking, but I didn't. It's like, anybody who's breastfeeding is like, can I have some in case I get COVID? Okay, new business idea.

We sell placenta pills. We do not sell placenta pills. That's a thing. That's not a new business idea. That's what people, I mean, I used a company that takes your placenta. Well, it was my due. Yeah, I was a home birth. So my, yeah, we just did it right from here.

My father-in-law was a surgeon. So he was like, it's got to be in the hospital. I said, that's fine, but I want to create the home birth environment in the hospital, which is what we did. But so here, let me just tell you this one thing. Okay, so I was all about the placenta encapsulation, right? I'd heard that some people make lasagna or whatever, that did not sound right to me. So I didn't do that.

When you take it, I want you to boil it, I want you to powder it, and I'll take pills. However, let me tell you something. So I did a natural birth, right? No drugs. Did you do the same? Yes. Yes, okay. At home, yeah.

So really interesting experience, right? Anyway, so after giving it birth, I remember this moment of, like it was like you're in a haze and then suddenly the lights turn on. Do you remember that moment? Say more. The reason I remember it is because my doula said, welcome back. Ah. Oh, no, you go a totally different place when you give birth, especially after.

Yeah, totally different. It's just you're on a different plane. Oh, yeah. I mean, I felt like I had run an effing marathon. Oh, yeah. Well, no, it was 36 hours. I felt amazing. But after that, she said, Danica, would you like a little piece of your placenta?

like to eat raw. And I like I found myself saying sure. Yes. Because of peace, I had it. Now, have you had this experience? No, I didn't eat it raw. Oh my God. It was like the best filet mignon you've ever had in your entire life or will ever have.

And I remember I would. Maybe just yours. Maybe Danica McKellar's placenta tastes like the best filetianian you've ever had. I'm telling you. I'm telling you, we are mint. We are mint. to consume that. Every fiber of my being, actually, I was embarrassed how much I liked it.

I wanted to ask for more and I didn't because I was embarrassed, which is so weird. How could I be embarrassed? I just bent through. But I actually cut off a piece for my sister when she gave birth because I knew she had to have that experience. She also did placenta encapsulation. But anyway, this was mind-blowing for me and just a validation and a confirmation that we are. Still, animals. Yeah.

We are the only animal that doesn't. eat its placenta after birth. We're also the only mammals that drink the milk of other mammals. Well, there's that too. But I mean, in terms of what women go through postpartum, and how much of that could be avoided if they got those hormones back in the form of the placenta that our bodies make for us. It's iron, if nothing else.

Can we pause for one second to anyone who's listening or watching this who's like, why would we eat our placenta? Which scientist is going to take this one? Well, I mean, every mammal, like if you've ever watched kittens be born, They come in like a delicious little package and the mom has to like lick them out of there. Placenta is it is what sustains the baby in your body but it's full of iron and nutrients

and every mammal, every mammal goes and eats it. Okay, I'm just trying to be the bridge here for those people who went to a normal, like a hospital birth and like had their baby washed off and never thought about their placenta. Like give us the sort of. That's it. That's it. It's just filled with vitamins and nutrients.

They throw it out. We go through a huge hormone drop. when we give birth. Everything changes. You know, you lose your hair. I didn't lose hair when I gave birth. Of course, you're like an angel from heaven. I mean, I don't know. But we go through such a hormone drop. And I don't know, but I think that consuming your placenta in one form or another, whether you eat it raw or if you have it powdered. Just just like vitamins. It's like vitamins. Summarizing, it's a very intense physical experience to go through birth. And we have a natural way to sort of get yourself recharged, revamped up, and it's all in the placenta.

Look, take home message, I think also as we kind of close our time with Danica. You know, there are many things that sound crazy, especially like that come out of L.A. or Hollywood. But it's important, especially to hear from people who are scientifically minded, that there are actually mechanisms behind the things that we sometimes do. And that's kind of what you and I, I think, champion here at our breakdown. is this notion that like yoga's not just a trendy thing. Meditation's not just a trendy thing. There is actual science, even things like acupuncture and like what is chiropractic, right?

There are actual scientific bases for things that really do make a difference. And the fact is birth in particular has been hijacked for the last couple hundred years. And before then, we had a totally different system of birth and labor. And it was women supporting women, women who have been through it. And there wasn't this notion of when you're pregnant, you're sick. And when you're sick, you go to a hospital. And they turn on really bright lights and they hook you up to a million machines and they pump you full of drugs because we got to get that baby out. Like, that's not how birth has happened.

Like, we didn't get here because of women being terrified to give birth. We got here because of women being like, we're going to perpetuate the species to toughen up, lady, and squat down. And get your hair back after. That's right. Danica, it's been really, really a pleasure talking to you. This has been, I mean, definitely more than I thought we would talk about. I learned so many things about you and myself. I'm not surprised at all to hear all the things we have in common because all the little bits and pieces that I've heard of you through the years.

I'm like, oh, wait, yeah, we have that in common to you. I love that. You have a very significant role in culture as a math person, and you write incredible books, bestselling books, some of which are more kind of instructive as it were. And then you have really, really lovely books aimed towards kids at sort of introducing the concept of math in ways that are attainable and interesting and beautiful. I don't know if you've ever been asked this, but let's go for it. What do you love about math? Yes. Yes, I have been asked that. So I took a break from acting to get a degree in mathematics from UCLA. And in part that was to find my identity outside.

of the role of Winnie Cooper. What I discovered in math is a really, I love the beauty of math, but beyond just that, I discovered a purpose in my life, which is to help others not be afraid of math. What I learned getting a degree in mathematics is a lot of women in particular would come up to me and say, oh my gosh, I can't believe you studied math. I was okay at math, but then there was this one tester, this is one teacher, this is one class. And after that, I couldn't do it. I heard this story so many times it really made me pause and go, why am I hearing that particular story so often? And I've, and I have figured out that it's because women in general tend to not think that they're going to be as good at math as guys, right? It's just kind of a stereotype. It's in society. It surrounds us

because we are taught that our values, really what our value comes from is more superficial stuff. So if you are growing up believing that you're not going to be as good at math as guys, or that you don't really belong in math because maybe your mom says she wasn't going to math or whatever, you're seeing just the stereotypes in general. Then when you hit a stumbling block in math, which you're going to do because math is challenging, you're less likely to see it as a temporary stumbling block, more likely to see it as evidence of what you've always known deep down, which is that you don't belong. And when I spoke in front of Congress in 2000 about the importance of women in mathematics,

and I was invited there. It's kind of a funny story. I was invited there because there was a commission who wanted to get more, money for college scholarships for women. And they invited me to come to speak on our behalf to sort of testify about the importance of when we got to get more women in the workforce in math and science. And so clearly we need more money for these college scholarships. Well, they sent me the 100 page report that this commission had put together all this research about why women were not getting into math as much. I read the whole thing, studied the whole thing. This is right after

UCLA. I was in study mode. I researched and I was clear from this report that middle schools, when girls start to shy away from math and that by college, it's too late. Now, they created an executive summary for the congresspeople watching, of course, that only talked about how college was important to get. And I, but, you know, I was testifying, right? I swear to tell the whole truth. I mean, I had to take it out. It was really kind of awesome. And because I'm such a literal person, I really thought that what I was supposed to do was just tell the truth up there. It did not occur to me that I was going to be bumming out the people who invited me. It didn't It occurred to me until years later, if I am years, okay?

I get up there and I say, you guys, I just graduated from, you know, UCLA of the degree in math. And I got money to study, to do research. It was easy because I'm a female. I mean, it would have been easier if I'd belong to another minority group. But that's not the problem. It's too late by that. Middle school at the time, like on this whole thing about how there are two issues in middle school. One is the teachers are not prepared enough.

A lot of them are gym teachers who are thrown into math. We need to provide more money, more resources for these teachers. The second thing is that math has really bad PR. And when little kids are growing up and they're thinking, who am I going to be? I said, that's why the wonder years was made about that time in middle school because it's just a confusing time. We're really insecure. We don't know who we are, but we're like, well, I don't know who I am, but I know I'm

not going to be a nerdy math person. So I'm going to shy away from that and I'm going to play dumb, dumb myself down so I can be more popular. So these are the two issues that I identified for them. And I pledged in front of Congress on that day. I would do everything I could with my position to get math as much good PR as possible. And that was really the beginning of me knowing that I had this purpose of helping to demystify math for kids, make it accessible, make it more interesting, and show them that you can be like, you can look however you want to look and be good at math.

You don't have to choose between being the smart, nerdy, antisocial girl or the fun popular girl. You can do whatever combination of those things that you want to do. So I'm on the cover of my books for middle school girls and I'm looking all like, hey, you know, like a teen magazine or a teen website or whatever they have these days. And the stories are very conversational and fun. And okay, let's say you want to make a friendship bracelet and you've got 32 beads. You want to make a regular pattern. How can you split it up? Well, these are factors, right? So I use all the fun, girly stuff that I loved at that age to teach these concepts. And I, so, but here's the thing. What I tell kids, when I speak to kids, is you may or may not find that you love math. I love math. You don't have to

love math. What I want you to do is to know that you can do it, though. Like, I got this, though. It's not going to be a problem, because not only is being good at math and understanding math going to help you with your just very practical things like finances in your life to make you feel and be more in control of your life, because if you don't know math, if you're not comfortable with math, you will be ripped off and you won't even know what happened. You won't even know it happened. It'll be the credit card companies. It'll be your mortgage. They'll try to get you to refinance, but they're really like make the mortgage bigger than it was before. So you're actually giving way money. They didn't even like they, because I said, you know who is good at math?

Credit car companies and banks and all these people who are more than happy to take money from you and you don't even know what's happening. So yes, it's got those practical applications. So people say, oh, well, you'll never use math in real life. Okay, well, first of all, that's not you. Finance is one. Of course, better paying jobs if you're good at STEM. But also, beyond all of that, It just trains your brain to be a problem solver. And it trains your brain to approach an obstacle of any kind, a problem of any kind, and to stick it out and to solve it. And when you come across a math problem that you think you can't solve and then you do,

you've taught yourself that you're stronger and smarter than you realize. And that is going to serve you everywhere in life. Since you have to even math class anyway, as a kid, why not use that as a really fertile ground for training your brain to have resilience and train yourself to have that fortitude to attack challenges and then to, yes, be able to say, it's a good thing I've got me on my side, because this looks kind of challenging. It's good thing I'm here. If we can teach our kids that and why not use math as the is the forum for that because it's there, then we've given them the best gift in the world. In fact,

we haven't given them a gift. They've given themselves the gift. That's the kind of thing that nobody else can give you and nobody else can take away. So that was really why I started writing these books and I started in middle school, went up through high school geometry, then like I said, I went back, started doing picture books for little kids, like good night numbers and 10 magic butterflies for, I mean, the little list of kids, bath time, math time, you know. And if anyone's interested, I've got your kids covered from ages zero to 16. You can go to mckellermath.com. All the books are there. My 11th book is coming out in May 22. I think it's going to be in June. It's called double puppy trouble. It teaches exponential growth.

Love it. With puppies. You have a connection with Hallmark. Tell us what's coming up this Christmas. Yes, I have a Christmas movie coming up very early on in the Christmas, quote, Christmas season. My movie is called You Me and the Christmas Trees, and it comes out on Friday, October 22nd. Wow.

The kick off to the entire Hallmark countdown of Christmas event, it's very early. As far as, like, I love Halloween. My thinking is this, Christmas can start early, and then you like dip in for Halloween, come back to Christmas, then you can dip in for Thanksgiving. And then you're like really, you know, Christmas time. But it's, you know, these days a lot of people could use a little Christmas early on. So I'm thrilled to be able to bring that. And a fun thing about this movie, you mean the Christmas trees is that my co-star is Ben Ayers, who's done a lot of other Hallmark movies. But another person in the movie is Jason Hervey. Wow. I just saw a picture on your

Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. He played Wayne Arnold on the Wonder Years. And so he's in this movie with me. So I'll be live tweeting. People want to check it out. It's on Walmart channel Friday, October 22nd at 8 o'clock, 7 o'clock central. Thank you so much, Danica. This was awesome. This is a lot of fun. Yay. I didn't think we'd talk about all those things with Danica McHellar.

That took a couple turns that I wasn't expecting. Well, to be honest, like, you know, she's a tremendous source of positivity in the universe. She's like the most positive human ever. It's because of her parents. They took her on the Rogue River. We don't go to the Emmys. We go to the Rogue River. No, it sounds like she had a really, really positive, you know, grounded experience and a very specific experience on the Wonder Years as well.

I didn't get to ask her about Domino Masters. That comes out in 2022. I love Domino's. It's because it has all those numbers. What does she need all the bags for? I mean, I like a good bag. I mean, I totally get it. And then I feel bad.

I try it. I was like, does she have OCD? I thought I'd find us like Kismet. Isn't that way? We got a lot in common otherwise. There's that line that describes Winnie Cooper. in the pilot, a girl that has an allure that only a girl who doesn't know she has the allure has.

I mean, that's the quintessential line that you're not allowed to write. She's attractive because only she knows. No, but, I mean, look, it was... It was a long time ago, but, like, that actual description is made fun of time and time again by every script reader. No, but I think that, like, also, like, that notion of, like, I mean, I hear Fred Savage's voice saying Winnie Cooper, you know, it was like this, like, magical... creature. And I mean, she's perfect. Like, and she was perfect for it, you know, then. And

go ahead. What are you going to say? Go ahead. I know what you're going to say. What am I going to say? Go ahead. Just say it. No, I want to hear what you think we're going to say. Nothing. Go. That in the DSM of child stars who fared well, we would see her picture. And in the DSM of child stars that look like they fared well, but are kind of falling apart, we'd see me. That's what you're thinking. You're like, she seems really good. I mean, I was going to try to make a placenta joke, but then I was also wrote down the notion of having a relationship with a character

before you have a relationship with the person who played the character, which is, I think, probably the hardest part of... Wait, what do you mean, Zagan? Well, she said the guy had a Winnie Cooper fetish. And I just think that... I mean, I would have just been like, well, let's see what this turns into.

Like, what's the fantasy? It's really fun to get to talk to someone who really did come out, you know, with a really good attitude and she loves her career. I mean, what she's done for math is enormously important. I love to hear how involved she is as a mom. It's awesome. I liked this. Well, I liked a couple things. One is I think it's super important to have scientifically minded people talking about what has traditionally.

been in the realm of hippie. And I use hippie in a broad sense. And you were like, we're all primates and we, uh, you know, this has been known in the past and we've moved away from that. And so I think the people who went back to it previously maybe didn't, they had an intuition about it, but they didn't have the hard science. And I think articulating that is very important. Yeah. I also liked the divine organizing power and that we can be in sync whether, whether or not we accept our circumstances and sort of there is a larger flow to life that we can be in. And some call that, you know, being in the flow and some call it manifesting. But there is, you know, what I heard her say, a general synchronicity of life that you can make things harder. It could be easier

depending on what your relationship with that is as her spiritual practice, which I like. Also, how interesting that her mother has played such a significant role, you know, in her spiritual life. I mean, I remember her mom, and she's, you know, her mom was always around. And, you know, there were teens who you, when I was acting and, you know, when she and I were young, there were definitely teens who did not have supervision. Like, she definitely, like, I knew her mom was there. And she was well protected. I don't mean overprotected.

I just mean, like, that was, like, a thing. My mother is a spiritual teacher for me, but a different kind of one. She's not giving me, like, Deepak Chopra mantras that I then can't share with people. I mean, she might paint a deprec Chopra mantra and then give it to you. She's a very nice painter. Do we haven't asked my anything? We do haven't asked myam anything. Ask myam anything.

Yeah. Hi, Mayam. My name is Emily, and I just wanted to ask you a question regarding your late talking children. It's something I've been wanting to ask you for a while. And then today, I was listening to the Bill Prady episode of the podcast, and you brought it up. And this was an episode about OCD and ASD and other a neurotypical ideas. But I have a son who is almost three. And he still does not talk.

And it has been probably one of the biggest stressors of my life. The doctors like to make me feel very afraid for his future and his development. And I was just wondering if you could maybe give me some, shed some light on late talking boys and how it feels to be a mother of a child that is not developing at the typical pace that we all expect. This is a really cool question. Thank you, Emily. Thank you for sending in a video question. Makes it really fun for us and hopefully for you.

I think something that we always make clear here is I'm not a doctor. Well, I'm sorry, I'm a PhD doctor, but I'm not a pediatrician. I'm not a child therapist. I'm not a linguistic specialist. I'm none of those things. You know, what I am is a mom who happens to be a scientist, but I had two children who spoke very late. My younger son spoke exceptionally late. But my kids kind of did everything.

late and I do remember that it was a source of a tremendous amount of stress for me. My kids both walked late, they talked late, they ate late, they breastfed late. I was often accused of doing these things to them or making them delayed. I don't have the ability really to like center and feel confident. That wasn't me as a parent. I wasn't like, I know what I'm doing and I have this intuition that you know like what i do know is that their dad was a late talker so that was at least a little bit of kind of like ammunition that i had you know when people would kind of you know talk to me or make comments about it um many people said horrible rude things to me about my kids like what's wrong with them why you know why can't he walk yet you're feeding him too much breast milk he's too

fat that's why he can't walk and they were very roly-poly but that's not why they didn't walk um I was told I held them too much. That's why they didn't walk. You know, there was a lot of kind of, you know, me wanting to take responsibility, and I think that's normal, you know, especially as a first-time mom. With my younger son, we did ultimately get him therapy in the home to help him learn how to articulate when it was becoming frustrating and when he was experiencing, I know it sounds silly,

but teasing, you know, from other toddlers because he was, you know, well into toddlerhood. and still not speaking. A big measure of this is often the child's frustration, but I also noticed that my frustration could add to his frustration, so there was some having to really speak to people that I trusted, other moms who parented similarly to kind of help me get through that, as it were. I did feel a lot of shame, and this really is a mental health kind of topic.

And, you know, even Jonathan can speak to this also. Jonathan is a very involved and is, you know, a very involved and attached dad. And a lot of times people have a lot of judgment about we do, about what we do with our kids. It can be very, very stressful. And ultimately, intuition's important. And so is also speaking to people who have good knowledge of child development. You can spend a lot of money for a lot of therapy. And the fact is, a lot of kids do figure it out with, you know, other assistants. But I think it's important also to remember that we have a culture that is very, very geared towards early dependence. Like, they need to say their alphabet so quick and they

need to do this so quick. And that's actually, in many cases, an artificially imposed concept for people who often do send their kids to daycare or need to or send them to preschool. But, you know, the kind of natural state of kids and babies is to have a wide variety of development. Jonathan, I don't know if you want to add anything. I think this goes back to there's a spectrum. Yeah. And often when we go into the Western medical system, it's, and again, I am not a doctor. do not take this as medical advice by any means. But we're honest, there's a continuum. And what is absolutely not right for one kid might be okay for another.

Some children need that intervention, as Mime says, and you should definitely get the help because that early intervention can set them up for an easier time later on. But many kids just are on their own schedule. And it's very hard to say what is appropriate and what isn't. So I... Yeah, and also it's cost prohibitive for a little. lot of families to have and get that kind of support. You know, I think that for us, we did use sign language, which was another thing that we were accused of like they wouldn't speak because I was

signing with them. But the fact is, there's also a very strong emotional connection that many parents have with their children so that communication does not feel stressful. And that was our experience, really, for many years with Fred. He speaks now. He speaks. I mean, he does sometimes have difficulty with language, but he's also deeply emotional and deeply sensitive. And I think sometimes he doesn't yet have words, you know, for what he feels and he's 13. I'm quite a bit older and I don't have words for how I feel. Okay. Anyway, thank you, Emily, for your question.

If you want to ask Miami anything, you can do so at Bialicbreakdown.com. That's BIA. L-I-K. Breakdown.com. You can also follow the Instagram page at Bialick Breakdown. Why not? It's a good idea. All right, from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have.

We'll see you next time. She's going to break it down for you She's got a neuroscience PhD or two One fiction one now she's going to break down It's a breakdown She's going to break it down She's going to break it down