Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Dianna Agron: Uncover, Discover, Discard

Episode Date: April 5, 2022

Dianna Agron (As They Made Us, Glee, Acid Man, Shiva Baby) joins us to discuss what it was like to work with Mayim on her new film, As They Made Us. She opens up about her experiences growing up in hotels and her family’s struggles after her father’s multiple sclerosis diagnosis. Mayim and Dianna bond over the scrutiny they faced while publicly coming of age on a television show, the inclination to make art after processing grief, and the benefits of healthy compartmentalization. Mayim explains the process of writing her film in response to the loss of her father and why Dianna’s character was the most difficult for her to write. She discusses body and emotional awareness in another installment of Moments of Peace and Calm. Trailer for Mayim's film, As They Made Us: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU-b6NoDkiU BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One of the things that really drew me into our project was that I understand more than many of my friends what it's like to see the health of your parents, both the physical and the cognitive side deteriorate. In a way to make light of the situation, I have had 10 different dads in a way. Hi, I'm Biolic and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to. Today, Diana Ehrlich's breakdown, she's going to break it down for you because you know she knows a thing or two.

And now she's going to break down. Today we're going to break down, Diana Agron, who I happen to know because she's in the movie that I wrote and directed, which is called As They Made Us. And as part of Diana's press tour, she has included us in her press tour.

But first, the person I most like to include in everything, Jonathan Cohen. Or the number one stop on your press tour. This guy. The first and last stop on my press tour. Jonathan Cohen, how are you, Jonathan? I'm doing pretty well. I'm back. You're back.

In studio. Back in action. I had a couple remote episodes, and here we go again. And today's episode is funny because I'll be remote is the first ever podcast we've done with me. I mean, I'm here now. That would be ridiculous to say that I'm not. But the actual interview we did when I was in my dressing room.

Snuck it in. Scheduling is very difficult around here. Scheduling has been difficult, but very, very exciting to speak to Diana from my dressing room with Jonathan in the studio. And many people know Diana from Glee. She's blonde in that iteration. But as you said... Early days.

Early days. And things change. Things change. Things change. change, hair color changes. Diana grew up in hotels, one of the neatest things I learned about her. I mean, I knew this when we worked on the movie. I don't know how it came up. She grew up in hotels and we'll let her explain how that came to be. What else does Diana do? Well, in as they made us, she's playing opposite Dustin Hoffman, Candace Bergen, and Simon Helberg.

She also just finished Acid Man opposite Thomas Hayden Church. She's in Tith. favorite Shiva Baby, which a lot of people loved. Actually, not playing a Jewish person. She is Jewish and talks a little bit about also some of that casting, some of the casting fun of that. And she loves doing small films. Like, it's her preference. They're fun. They're quick. They're exhausting. They're exhausting. They're exhausting. But it's like, you know, I think about them a little bit like a canoe trip. You just get thrown into the mix. You're sent out into the wild. You have no comforts of the studio. It's like a terrible canoe trip. That's the kind of trips you led when you were a counselor. A ton of fun. Everyone's in it. A lot of problems are going to happen. Just got to get through. She's also been in such movies, Festival Darling's, as they're called, Zipper, Tumbledown, Bear, and Hollow in the Land. Also, behind the lens, directed a segment of Berlin I Love You with Luke Wilson, and she was a dancer. So many interesting things about this lady. She's a, she's a very accomplished singer, not just from Glee. She has a residency, I think it's called, at the Carlisle Hotel.

Like, she's a proper singer. She does sing. She does sing. in my movie. She sings in Yiddish, different story, but she's just the kind of person like, she can't sing, row, row, row your boat and not have it sound beautiful. It's amazing. We're going to speak to Diana.

Then we're going to talk a little bit more after about directing stuff. We'll see how much Mayam wants to open up about her directorial debut. But really, really, so lucky to have gotten to work with her and so lucky that she included Miami-Bi-Bi-Ls break down. This could be our

first time being included a press tour. Next, you're going to sing back up with her at the Carlisle. But until then, no, until then, from this studio, you and Warner Brothers Studio, where I was doing Call Me Cat. I don't even know where she was. No one knows. Let's welcome Diana Agron. Break it down. Welcome Diana Agron to the podcast. It's really, really a pleasure to have you here. And for you to get to talk with me and Jonathan, we are so appreciative. I'm so appreciative. and excited, and I was so excited that I couldn't say appreciative. You are our first cast member that we are getting to speak to from the film that we made together.

But what we do here on this podcast is also just talk to people about kind of like where they come from and what their journey has been like and especially highlighting as much as people are comfortable with, you know, things that have been challenges for them or things that they've either overcome or are still working through. Jonathan and I pride ourselves on being works in progress. And I'm sure Jonathan would love to talk to you for an entire hour about how difficult I am to work with because you got to experience it. I experienced nothing of the sort. So we would have very, Jonathan doesn't also have that desire. Jonathan just wants to talk to her about what it's like to pretend to be mime. And also, Jonathan already has violated one of my rules of this movie was I don't refer to this as me because it is not autobiographical. It is not a memoir. It is based on a lot of things from my life, my childhood, but also a lot of people's lives and

childhoods. And anyway, there's a lot to that. And, you know, I have to say, Diana, that a lot of people have mentioned, oh, she must have studied you because she really reminds me of you. And I said, well, I, first of all, I can't see it. Like, it's not, I didn't, I didn't notice as we were working together anything of the sort. But that is something I would love to talk about in terms of also what it's like to be an actor and to embody another person at all is a fascinating kind of mind trip. But especially working as closely as we did, I think there'll be some really interesting stuff to talk about. But I did kind of want to start, you're a very, a very accomplished person in both TV and movie space and also as a singer. And many people

know you from Glee. And I like to point out to people, she was blonde in Glee, but she's a brunette in this and your, you know, your hair as all of us in the industry does all sorts of things that it needs to. Can you tell us a little bit sort of about what your life was like, you know, pre-glee. I know you did theater and you had a whole life before we knew you, you know, on our television screens. But if you can just talk a little bit so people can sort of frame where you come from and what your family was like. Gotcha. Okay. So I moved around a little bit as a young kid. I was born in Savannah, Georgia. My family was there for two years. My dad, worked in hotels. He was a general manager in a hotel. So I primarily lived in hotels growing up.

So we were in the hotel in Savannah, Georgia. And then we moved to San Antonio, Texas for six years in which I lived in a house and then moved to San Francisco where I again lived in a hotel until I was joining the world as a young adult in Los Angeles. So what does it mean when you live in a hotel? What is like, what is that? It's so interesting because now that there's been more distance from that point, it feels more faint of a memory until I am in a hotel again, which, as you know, as we travel and do for work, that is often. And immediately, I am back in that place of supreme comfort. It's so bizarre. It's probably also what was putting me in line for just loving storytelling, et cetera, et cetera,

because you're observing so many different people from all walks of life, traveling from all sorts of places in the same little ecosystem. And, you know, especially as I was more aware of what was happening as I was getting older, you know, we would have things like, I remember Tony Robbins came and did a firewalk in front of the hotel one time. And my brother and I were so confused peeking through the window and my parents were just kind of like, oh, I don't even know how to explain this right now. Like, just go to bed. You know, or diplomats. You know, I remember there was this time my mom was desperately trying to get us out the door for school and they were having dogs do the whole walk and refuse to let us leave. And my mom was so determined to get us to school on time.

And, you know, dance troops, dance conventions where there would be signs all over the door and all the hallway, you know, with all their names and like encouragement signs and things like that, sports teams. You know, there would be times my friends would come and, you know, point out somebody in the lobby and say, like, do you know who that is? And I probably didn't. There was just all this buzz all the time. And then there was the community within the hotel that was a family. That was all the people at work in the hotel that you just know as your friends. So I just, you live in a room? You live in the penthouse. I lived in one closet. I just had that. I just that really. You live in, we had, the hotel was a box shape. And so on one floor, on one whole side,

we had all the rooms. So we had a kitchen and we had a living room and my mom had a sewing room. I had my own room. Do you use a key card to get in? Well, back then, well, I'm trying to think there were keys. You use a key card. And it was just, it was so bizarre for so many reasons. And it depended on the age, whatever age I was, I was experiencing new bizarre experiences. For example, when I was newly there, probably when I was a teenager, is when it really started getting weird because, you know, some teen teenagers have independence. So I remember there was this group of boys that kept visiting the hotel and there was this big atrium. And they would steal things from the housekeeper's carts and throw them down. So throw down toilet paper rolls and then they would

go soaring and or they brought roller skates one time or roller blades probably because that was probably what was cooler then and we're skating on the rooftop and anytime somebody would stop them they would say oh diana agron is one of my best friends and they would escape this like the consequences of what they were doing and i remember my mom called the school principal i would have been 13 and on the morning announcements the principal said mary agron is called we really really need the people that are going to regency, the young boys to stop doing that, it's really causing a lot of havoc. And I was just then ridiculed for another thing. It was like, oh, Diana, your mom and you are so uncool. Like, just let us have our fun, you know? And then as I got older,

there were benefits. Like, I remember there was a school dance that was there. And I was able to get us a room after I have a party, but then I had to be home at a certain time. I just, It got better as I got older, but there was this one period where I just, it was really pertained to those boys. And, you know, also one day I cut school because my friend convinced me that it would be really great to swim in the pool of the hotel and that that would be a great escape school moment. But it wasn't very thought out because my mom, I don't know how she just had this feeling that I'm. she came home early or something, immediately went to the pool and was like, curious. I mean, something I've never done.

Like, I never snuck around. Like, my parents always knew where I was every second of every minute. Like, even when I slept, they knew exactly like when I woke up. I just, they could feel it. But I would imagine it would be hard to, like, sneak anything, like, have friends over without anyone knowing. Yeah. It was a great experience for the most part.

And also odd. you really have to be a quite professional child. You have to have great manners all the time. There is no melting down as the daughter or son of the general manager of that hotel. Please and thank you is on a high and just like really respectful. Do you have siblings? I have a younger brother. Okay.

So was that, I mean, was that I would imagine that might be helpful because you had a playmate at least or someone to fight with if there was no one else around. Yeah, we've always been very close except for one year in high school where. I was the senior and he was the freshman and just did not want people making that connection would tell me to drop him off at one point and pick him up at the other and not speak to him during the day. It's like, this isn't how I imagined this going. When you kind of left home, as it were, where did you go to? I immediately went to Los Angeles.

I had always been a performer. I had started dancing at three. And when I was living in Texas, I was very uncool for so many reasons. It was like I loved ballet. I was quite nerdy compared to other classmates. I was Jewish. That was not something that was part of our community. And I loved black and white movies and Lucille Ball.

And there was so many things that made me so strange in the one area that I was living in. And then when I moved to San Francisco, I was still strange in those respects. I would say not many, you know, pick whatever age I was. Kid loved those same classic films and just ballet dancing again was something that separated me. But, you know, San Francisco is a much more open place in regards, especially as it relates to the arts. And I could escape to the city and indulge in that kind of storytelling. And so I, and I did feel very close to my family. my family was really falling apart as I was transitioning from high school to college for many

different reasons. And so I think that while I had dreamed of going to New York, that felt like something I should say for later and I should immediately go to Los Angeles because need I come home, it was just much more feasible. And yeah, so I packed my things in a car and drove down. My MBialx breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine, drink more water. There's no real data. There's no game plan.

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Many families have challenges. Yours had some exceptional ones. And I know you have spoken about it. You don't have to go into any detail that you don't want to. But I think it would be helpful for people to know also because so many, especially actors that Jonathan and I get to talk to, have a lot of sense of disconnect from other people, meaning in terms of differentness, and often a kind of, you know, catalytic event that involves a lot of emotional processing.

And so maybe talk a little bit about those years for you. The big moment was my father's health. You know, I think that our family felt quite normal and it's set up in certain many aspects. You know, when my father first kind of was experiencing what we later kind of determined was MS, that was something that was hidden from us kids for the first couple of years. He had had one episode and gone away

and did some testing and nothing was definitive and nothing was shared with us. So that was not something we were aware of. And then when I was about 15, he had a big episode that put him in the hospital for about a month. And he wasn't speaking for a large portion of that. And that was just so wild to understand, take in, all of it just felt so too big. And yet the whole time I had this real commitment to this belief that he was going to be okay.

And he did recover 80% of his cognition and physical abilities from that stroke. But it was compromised. And that was the first step. And then, you know, led to him having to take early retirement for his job, something that he had found a lot of pride in and really a sense of self. He was very self-made, put himself through college and helped his younger brother out and became this, you know, person that really was dedicated. to their work and that was taken from him in a very young age, I think it was 46, 47. And then how that be, there was just so many steps and so many moments in which there were new challenges to deal with, both with kind of holding space for how he was feeling or trying to

imagine how he was feeling also while kind of wanting to, you know, be a young person who is experiencing their own kind of sense of growth and sense of self and and excitement for the world. And then how that kind of was being expressed within our family unit of, you know, are we, are we processing this together? Are we, you know, there was just so much that was happening. And, you know, without going into the most specifics, um, uh, just out of, I don't know, I sometimes feel so protective over just my parents and our family in certain ways. You know, there were some painful incidents that led to my parents breaking up. And that was happening right as I had made the decision to go to Los Angeles.

And my brother and my mother were going to be in the house for the first time by themselves. And my brother was only 13 and going, you know, his first year of high school. and my dad was moving back to his hometown, which Kansas City. And it just, as you can imagine, you're trying to understand where your energy goes. You're forging a new path in a career, and that's far away from everyone. And yet you do have tools like the telephone and showing up again. And it just, it was such a juggling act. And all the while, I mean, I've now.

I think one of one of the things that really drew me into our project was that I understand more than many of my friends what it's like to see the health of your parents, both the physical and the cognitive side deteriorate. In a way to make light of the situation, I have had 10 different dads in a way. And there's beauty in all of those versions. There's extreme sadness and all of those versions. And ultimately, there was, with a lot of patience and time and nurturing, there was a lot of healing that happened within our family unit. And then, you know, as much healing could happen in one step of the way, then a new trauma would happen as it related to his health or, you know, people that were coming into his life. So it's just been a really long journey.

And it's one that just is ever so complicated and I wouldn't wish upon anyone. Like my grandfather always said, you know, health is wealth and really, you know, can't buy it. It's, it's, it's, it's, you can be grateful for it and, and kind of pulled on to that as like, that truly health and happiness. Like, it's not a given. So that's, I mean, also that's the backdrop then of your kind of independent. and your, you know, what's become a really exciting career, you know, were a few years from the age that you left home. How many years after, let's say, moving to L.A., did things kind of

start coming together for you, you know, professionally? Yeah. I guess I moved down there when I was 18 and, you know, bit parts here and there on different TV shows. And when I was, I think, I guess, 21 we did the pilot and then we started really filming that show the next year. So 22. Yeah, four years. And how many years were you on Glee? About six. Wow. So that's, there's, like there's your 20s. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it was very strange. I mean, I, I'm sure you can relate. Coming of age publicly on a television show, it's such an interesting experience. The level of scrutiny, I think, especially on women, you know, it's an extra, it's a lot of, it's a lot of attention. And, you know, one of the things I know it's like an over, it's an oversimplified solution, but one of the things that I think would be such a leveling ground would be if, let's say we didn't have to wear different dresses every time we go to an event or a carpet, because so much attention is paid to what is she wearing? What does her body look like? What's her hair and makeup? Like, you know, like, what are her brows? Has she had work done? She needs to have work done, right? And I feel like, Like if we were all just in, you know, suits, like if we all just knew, we all wear suits,

that's the uniform. Like, just like there's a uniform when you go to the Korean spa. You put on your little shorts and t-shirt. There's a uniform when you get a mammogram. You put on a little robe. I think when we go to carpets, everybody should have a little uniform. But anyway, that's just one of the things about the scrutiny that we come under. So in the years since then, and people can look up, you know, what year you were born.

I don't need to say it here. but in the years since then you've also, you know, had a whole other aspect of your career, not just this, you know, little independent film that we just made, but your career has taken you, you know, to the big screen. I sound like I'm 90. Like, you're now on the big screen. No, but your film career has also been really, really exciting. And what's been the backdrop of kind of your life and your relationship to your family as

your life has also gotten, you know, bigger, more intense, more exciting, more time-consuming. What has that been like? I guess what's the impact sort of on you in your family? I have so much more time now than I did then because a TV show really consumes you, especially, I mean, it was nonstop. We shot 22 episodes a year, which meant that that was 10 months of the year. And then on the two months that we had off, you know, we had work commitments for the show. We toured. We did two tours. And then I was also being encouraged to and excited about doing other films. The film where I first met Candice was shot, I think, between the pilot and us starting the season. And truly, I was always working. Always. And, and, you know, especially on

the TV show, those were 14 to 17 hour days. It just depend. I, you know, remember sometimes you'd have forced calls. Just like, okay, I'm counting the hours that you had to prepare for the next day and then how many sleep hours you could get in and, you know, just trying to be optimistic about it, but it was a lot. And so that felt so full on that I purposely had to recalibrate after I was fully off of that show and make time for me in real ways. And really prioritized independent film

because I not only wanted to try many different things, but also I loved the idea of getting to travel again and experience the world and also participate in filmmaking that was just quicker, dirtier, and, you know, the in and out and then on to the next thing, whether it's, you know, a month off for here, healing and travel or family or friends. And that was super helpful. And that exists still today.

You know, I also don't have kids or any furry things or, you know, I'm pretty free in my ability to travel around and make space and time for things, which feels good after so many years of not having any control. You know, you would have life events that you would just miss, like people's weddings or funerals or things like that. And that felt very strange as well to just not be a person in your own world as much as you would like to be. Jonathan, I feel like you might have some things to say about that. Well, you've both mentioned that you work together. And we haven't really talked much in the podcast or in any other podcast about the process of making the film. Like we joked a little bit sort of when we came back from hiatus this year that Maim went off and

wrote in direct and I teased her a little bit. I'm like, what was you? was your favorite part. She was like, calling action. But you, you know, my background, I went to the AFI, I did screenwriting, focused on screenwriting. And like, I used to say that, like, making a film, especially on an independent level, it's like a sickness. Like, you have to, like, you have to be in this delusion that all these pieces are going to come together and it's all going to work out. But you both did something with an amazing cast that was like, I'm It's beyond exciting to get to work together and play together like that. So maybe talk a little bit about, like, how you sort of heard about this idea and then, like, getting into embodying these characters.

What I thought Jonathan was going to say is Myam needs recalibration and Myam needs downtime. And Myam doesn't really do things like what Diana just described. I think before we get to, like, the movie stuff, which is really good, you know, Diana brings up a really important point. that I think is valid no matter what profession people are in or how many movies they do or how many kids they have. Like this notion that she just, you know, tapped into is something I didn't really have a concept of, you know, really in much of my life. This notion that we are impacted by the things we do, whatever they are. And if you keep piling them up and you keep chipping away at things like personal connection, either with family or event, like you mentioned, events,

or, you know, people and things, it depletes you in a way that wears on you. And, you know, there's a certain amount of, you know, envy that I have, you know, for people who figure it out before they're my age, because I was like, you know, I like steamrolled through my 20s and my 30s and, you know, then I hit 40. And then the body. start slowing down and doesn't want to do the things that you thought, you know, it could keep doing. We talk a lot, Diana, here about, like, emotions can't hit a moving target, you know, and for some of us, like, and I'm sure you can tell, just sort of by seeing the way I function, like, I kind of always go, you know, it's really, really hard for me to slow down. You know,

writing this movie was my response to my father dying, right? Like, I had this year of grief in traditional Judaism. There's, you know, a very specific year that you take. And, you know, as soon as I got up out of that year, I started feeling this, you know, essentially a desire to write, which looks like images came to me that had words and music to them. And those three components, I realized, was not just, oh, let's write a song about this or let's write an essay for, you know, a Jewish journal. I think this is more, right? So that's like kind of what I did with that. And, you know, approaching Diana about this movie, was, it's very difficult, you know, also to take something that, again, is not an autobiography,

but is based on a lot of my experience and imagine, have to imagine someone else, you know, having to put them through that also. And it was also during COVID. And I believe when I first zoomed with Diana, you were somewhere exotic. Yes, I was in Brazil. That's right. She was in Brazil. And I was like, well, this sounds like an amazing life. She's spending COVID in Brazil. What's happening? So nervous that I was going to be judged for that because it was just a very first moment. I felt comfortable traveling somewhere else and kind of not letting the news cycle make me so fearful that I would stop experiencing things. Also, too, I was coming out of a divorce. Like, I was so craving the ability to do something. And I had this community of friends down there that kind of

established enough certainty about safety that I felt fine doing it. But I also have a problem not telling everyone the truth if they asked me where you are. I couldn't tell you that I was somewhere else. And so I said it kind of clutching my hands to the chair thinking, oh, God, she's going to think I'm the most irresponsible. And your response was so beautiful. You were so accepting and like encouraging of my experience down there. One of the things that that we spoke about, and it was not a long conversation. You know, I've never had to cast anyone, you know, in anything. So the whole process was so strange, you know, like I had cast Simon Helberg in my head

because I was working with him on Big Bang Theory for the years that my father was sick and then my father passed away, you know, at, I was working on Big Bang Theory at that time. And I always knew that I wanted to write for Simon. I always knew that, you know, if I were to do something with any kind of like emotional content, especially surrounding family, like he was just the voice, you know, that I wrote for. So anyway, the cast started coming together. But you in particular, you know, given what you've shared with us about your dad, like that was a huge, you know, it's very hard to say, can this person understand the set of emotions that this script is going to make them go through?

And, you know, the short answer is, yes, Diana can, like, you got it and you communicated that to me. And that was, you know, I had to have a lot of faith because much as I can know who you are, look at your real, it's a very strange thing to say, we're going to, you know, for 20 days, we're going to try and create something out of nothing with people that you didn't grow up with, meaning it's an instant family, you know, and one of the most powerful scenes, at least for me in the movie, is the first scene that you all shot together. It was this dining room scene that gets aggressive and violent. And, you know, it's not always the case as actors that we do things that are close to us. I would say more often than not, it's not that way.

But I guess I'm curious, and I would ask this even if I didn't write it and direct it, what did it feel like at that time in your life to say, I'm going to take on a role and be part of something that, again, is very low budget. Like it was very, very quick and dirty, but also, like, super heavy and emotional. And, you know, like, it's very, it was very intense. I mean, we had crew members, you know, having some hard days, you know, because of the content. Yeah.

I remember our conversation. I remember you were just so open in sharing your experience. I'm an oversharer, Diana. I think we all. can accept that. It's so beautiful. I was sitting right there when I zoomed with you. I was sitting right on that couch. Funny. And I remember that at one point a tear came down from my eye and I flicked it away and I was so nervous. I was kind of so in my head. I was like, this is so wild because we're sharing such, you know, personal truths and it feels born of such similar, you know, kind of pain and love and, you know,

that process of losing someone. But then what was so funny to me was that once we had exchanged and thanked each other, you were so quick. I mean, I knew you were in your lunch break, but you were so cute. You were like, okay, why? I was like, whoa. That's how she gets off every conversation, just super fast. It was so good.

And I remember writing to my manager saying, I really felt, we connected. I have no idea if she thinks that I'm right for this person, but I really enjoyed that connection and that felt very real and very meaningful. And then within the hour, he called me and said that I was being offered the role and I made him repeat it. Also because in Brazil, where I was, it was Friday night. It was like I was just about to go out for dinner with my friends. And yeah, I think I might have even made him repeat it two times. And it just felt so strange for a few reasons. One, because the year prior, as we were going into, you know, the thing that happened for a couple of years, I'm so tired of saying the word.

So I'm like the thing that happened. I remember being given that space to actually think and dream and cultivate what I would wish for as it related to storytelling. And would it be something that I would put to paper or whatever. whatever. I remember thinking I'm finally, I have processed enough of this, these feelings and this pain as it relates to those personal aspects of my life that I actually feel it would be really helpful to take the next step and make art that surrounds, you know, those themes. And I felt very certain that my story would be too challenging or messy to write and I wouldn't actually want to be burdened with that in some way. I really wanted something to come my way.

Or someone else burdened and overshared about their experience. You know, yes. And so when this came my way, it was, oh, and the other thing that I had put into that, you know, bubble of wants and wishes was that I really, I had done a film the previous year that came out last year called Shiva Baby. And I was the only actor in that piece that was playing a non-Jew and I am Jewish. And I thought it would be so lovely to incorporate that into storytelling. And I remember speaking with our beautiful director, Emma Seligman, and she was like, you are going to have that. I was like, I am going to have that. And she was like, maybe we created together, maybe, you know.

And so those were things that I said that I wanted. And then when this showed up, incorporating both things. And speaking Hebrew and Yiddish in the same movie. It was so wild. And I just thought, man, sometimes you really put it out there and it shows up. And then you should say yes. So it just felt like a big gift to work with you and to work with Candice and Simon and Dustin and just be in that working environment together. And I love indie films.

I love not, I don't want a trailer, I don't want a chair. I do want a water and, you know, a group experience. And that what we had and shared felt so deeply meaningful. And the storytelling, I mean, obviously as it related to emotions and what we carry and how that moves through us, that was very beautiful and very impactful and made filming our story so easy. But then also the storytelling we were all able to share about our work lives and, you know, histories and even places that we've lived. Like, I just having Candace and Dustin around to especially shed a light on the ways in which the industry was or certain projects were put together or things that were discovered on set, that's just real juicy storytelling that I always, I mean, anytime there is somebody who is my elizabeth. or it just feels like such a huge gift.

You have them in front of you to answer these questions. You know, working with two people who are, you know, who've been in the industry for, you know, a century, essentially, you know, combined. You know, it makes for a really neat environment also because we had a crew, many of whom took the job to kind of work with these people, you know. And so when people hear these kind of conversations, you know, I also worry that like people's eyes kind of get like, okay. These people had a great time working.

It's so meaningful, blah, blah, blah. But the reason that I take it so much to heart when I'm listening to you speak is because it's not often that people do have a personal story that does relate to what they're doing in the way that I think all of us did in some way or another. And I've said in every interview that I've done, like, it's not for me to tell everyone's story. But I think it's really important that there are some jobs that are all. awesome and fun. And everyone has a good time and you go out for drinks and blah, blah, blah, but also COVID is its own weirdness, no matter what your job is, because you're kind of like, if you do get to work together, you're sort of in this weird bubble. But, you know, you also took on a role with a father who is suffering from medical complications that are trying to be

figured out. And you had to, you know, you had to weather through a lot of pain in that kind of like father-daughter space. And I'm wondering, like, I mean, I know sort of my process is an actor, but it's not like we can completely separate ourselves from what's happening and from those emotions. And there's different ways that actors produce emotion. There's different theory and there's different technique and there's different ways people do it. But it was hard. And I wonder, you know, your brain doesn't know the difference between the sadness of this character and the sadness that you feel if something gets triggered in you. What is that process like? for you or what was that like? In many ways, Dustin was Dustin and he was not my dad. Even in the scene where I'm saying potentially goodbye to him and that was such an interesting scene to have because I have had that moment with my father where, you know, especially in the last couple of years because of where he's at with his health and, you know, I've had

moments where I've said goodbye to him thinking that that might be at the end. And it was there's similarities. You want that physical touch. You know, you want to see what that, you know, that skin and that like smell and that closeness. And then obviously words that were found, you know, on the page and slightly peppered with things that were off. So different. And I remember that, you know, that scene was very emotional for, I think, all of us. And I really saw him. There was no thought that was coming to mind of dad. Although, as you said, like, I'm sure, you know, body and mind and all of these things.

It wasn't until we were done and I was sure we were done that I went outside and I sobbed by that big tree that was in the courtyard. I sobbed and I sobbed and I sobbed and I just gave it to myself. I was like, go hard on these tears. And I hadn't cried that hard. And I knew that in that moment was about my dad, not about Dustin, not about the scene, all of that. And then as that lifted, I saw this one pair. There was these two very small yellow butterflies that were circling each other. And the wind was blowing.

It just felt nice in that moment to focus on those two butterflies. And then as I moved on, I realized the whole lawn was filled with these two circling butterflies. There was many couples of butterflies, and I just thought, that's really beautiful. Okay. And we breathe through it and we move on. And I mean, there were so many tears that were being shed during our film. And every day felt different. And every day either related or didn't.

It was just so interesting to put yourself through that. But I do think in years past, things would have been too raw and real in which I would have have balls like that in the scene and not been in the scene and not been able to hold space for that unique scene and what it related to. I just would have unleashed in that way. And it would have been unusable. And that wouldn't, you know, we would have to have done the reverse. And also, I'm just thinking, and then Jonathan, I will let you ask you a difficult question. I was also thinking that, you know, in that sense, like being a performer this way, it's not that different from being a human. Because there's a...

are many, many times, I mean, too many to count where all we, collectively, you know, all we want to do is cry or laugh when it's not the right time. You know, or like we all have to compartmentalize, you know, like that's what we do. We, you know, there are healthy ways to do it, right? And then there are the ways that many of us, you know, do it until we learn the healthier ways, which is to like stuff it down, put it away, have a drink, smoke a joint, like, whatever it is. So that compartmentalization is just, it's so fascinating to me. And also, you know, what I wanted this movie really to address is in particular the role of the child who takes care of the parents. It often falls on the woman.

It does. It often falls on the daughter. And that's historical and it's the patriarchy and all these things. But in particular, I did want to highlight that notion of being pulled in so many directions and having to compartmentalize even more. Like, oh, the ex-husband who, like, of course he has snacks when like, you know, like all that fun stuff about being, you know, yeah, in this case, I wrote you as, you know, a divorced woman and like trying to deal with the kids, trying to move your career forward. The things that a lot of people do and in particular women. But I just, I really, that was so much the evolution of what I was trying to do, you know, with your character. And, you know, with all the notes that I got about the script and you get them from a million people, your character was.

the hardest because everyone kept saying like, where's her win? And what about this? And when's she going to get her time? And, you know, so it's really, it's such an interesting journey. And like I said, it's one that I don't just think actors have to, you know, sort of process. Jonathan, we only have a couple more minutes with Diana. So I want to be respectful of her time. And have you ask your hard questions and about what it was like to work with me. It's a good thing that you got here because there is a universality of her character. And she is juggling so many things and she's split and her time and energy and she has she's like keeping it all together across so many different areas. Where I was going to go is just ask if there was, you know,

a surprise to you or something unexpected that you discovered. There's the script that's written that's on the page. Then it comes to life and then it gets edited. So like there's always three plus movies that are created. So I'm wondering in your experience did you like what was the surprise or unexpected moment or a scene that came together just totally differently than you may have imagined it previously? Well, I was surprised with certain beats that you can't imagine because you can't imagine what the other person is going to bring and then what you respond to, you know, that call-in response. What I, I guess that is not something I can answer so specifically, but what I loved,

loved, love, loved, is the scenes, especially where Miami would make it a oneer and open that up for us as actors, it felt so similar to being on stage and, you know, in the theater and having that freedom to not miss your mark or only be able to move, you know, a certain degree because then you wouldn't be on camera. Like those scenes I loved so much. And a lot of that was with Simon. And also when we were in the rehearsal process and dreaming of what it could be and how it could feel, et cetera, I think Simon was the biggest wildcard for me. Just also the nature of our relationship, how that would work, what we would find, what we would, you know, move from, et cetera. I just, I love those, those were really special to me and gave me great joy to experience those. And that. That was your design, I think. It was perfect for those moments and really gave us the gift of being able to do more, I think. Yeah. And just for people, you know, who may not be familiar, like there are several shots that are intentionally one shot, meaning I didn't shoot necessarily coverage. I put, yeah, put just kind of an open space and let them play.

The hard thing is especially if it's a long scene, which we had two in particular I'm thinking of, it has to be right. all the way through because there's nowhere to cut, like literally. It's a very big risk to take and very difficult also on a small budget, which means you have to get a lot done in a day. It's not like I have the whole day to shoot this, you know, four-page scene and do it as many times as we want until it's perfect. There's some physicality also in one of the confrontation scenes that also is really, really like the best jigsaw puzzle ever for our editors to put together. So the truth is also one of the neat things, and this is, you know, kind of a wonderful, a wonderful opportunity, you know, on this podcast, which really is where Jonathan and I kind of put, like, the real us

and our hearts and our minds and our souls. You know, I, since I'm about 17, you know, have been in a process of uncover, discover, discard, is how we say it. You know, I come from a complicated home, and my father of blessed memory was a very complicated person. My mother is still alive and I think she'd be the first to admit. Maybe she wouldn't. She's a very complicated person. And, you know, a lot of my teen years, I was on television growing up. And, you know, I've acquired a lot of, you know, a lot of attributes that are survivor

attributes. And, you know, both survivor attributes for a complicated family, for a person who's a young actor, for a person who is insecure, just because that's how I, you know, am programmed and, you know, kind of working around them. that. But one of the things that was so challenging for me with being a writer, because I thought they'd hire another writer after my draft, and then I thought they'd hire a director, but like, here I was. And it was really, really insane in my brain to try and, you know, position myself as a person of authority and respect. Part of it, I think, is also, it's a woman complex. You know, I just

watched Ali Wong's latest special, and she talks about what happens when women get power and money and, you know, prestige, very different things than happen to men, you know, in many cases. And I remember feeling so, you know, intimidated just by all of your talent, but also, like, needing to really be in charge. And, you know, one of my skills that I've acquired is, you know, my ability to multitask, which really came in handy. My ability to hold a lot in my brain at once, which also, you know, came in handy. And, you know, I am a, I guess I'm an actor's director in that I'm very, very concerned, maybe overly concerned, you know, about the actor's experience and what they know, what they don't know, what they want to know. We did a lot of talking. You know, I remember I said to

Dustin, he asked me to explain something at one point. And I, you know, felt like I had overtalked because I am an overtalker. And I said, is that too much? And he said, no, I love it. Like, keep talking. Like, he wanted that information. And I think you all were the, kind of actors that did. At one point, I remember Candace said, like, you don't need to explain, I get this woman. I got it. I was like, oh, okay. And indeed, she got it. Um, you know, one of the most powerful performances, I think, of hers is, you know, a scene with you and her in the kitchen. And she literally, she didn't need, yeah, it's a heartbreaker. It gets Jonathan every time. Every single, I've watched it 20 times. I cry every single time. Yeah. So she, she definitely kind

had it. But one of the things I wanted you to kind of speak to is, you know, four women taking the helm. You know, it can be hard. And I'm kind of curious just like, because you were an observer of me in this process. And, you know, I credit David Fini Mosier, RDP, with really like being my co-director. I mean, I, you know, he was the other half of me, you know, for this film.

But there was a lot that once we got on set, he was off with his crew. And it was just like me and y'all, you know. And I'm curious, you know, what thing, I'm not asking for you to compliment me, but I'm curious what it, was what it was, no, but I am curious what it was like also because it is not a space that a lot of women resonate in, meaning we're just kind of seeing that more and more. And you have worked

with obviously other female directors. I'm curious if you just have any sort of thoughts from an actor perspective about what that was like working with someone who was a first time person, you know. I think what was so obvious to me, even from our first meeting, so nothing was surprising when we showed up on set, was that you were. She's like, oh, she was. She always looks like she rolled out of bed. Got it. No. You were ready.

You were so ready. You were so clear about everything and how it was going to look and feel and the shape of things. And it was just so pleasurable to be on set with you, seeing you experience your vision for this project. And I was saying this earlier in a different interview. It's like, nothing felt forced or labored. Even though we were small but mighty, it just. felt and in COVID, which is so wild because we were contending with, you know, I had shot a film just before and we were a little bubble and we were 15 people. And so there wasn't

even that pressure necessarily. So all of the pressures that you had to contend with, it just, it always felt calm and we always felt supported. And I got so much joy seeing you just be so comfortable and there and... But I'm like a little bit crazy, right? Like, you can say it. No. See, this is the thing. I think I should only exist on sets as a director because no one tells me there's

anything wrong with me. No one tells me I'm too bossy. No one tells me I need to tone it down by I'm like as I need to, but you see why people, even actors, you get addicted to that. though, because when all of your defects are lining up so that everything's clicking and everyone's in order, going back to the real world is hard. She kept trying to adjust my blocking in real life. It didn't work. It's like, no, enter here, exit here. But that also is a testament to the team of people assembled

because I've had other situations where that is not the case and the support is not. there and sometimes the lack of support is because or you know seems to be attributed to the fact that the person in charge is a woman and you know an over questioning of everything or a lack of full support you know that resistance to just move forward you know and it's very it's very hard you know even in my jeopardy world you know a lot of people notice that women tend to bet as much as men, even in similar, you know, ranking positions. And as a woman, you know, raised by feminists, but raised in this culture, everyone looking at you and saying, are we moving on or are we going to go into overtime and, you know, pay $20,000 in penalties? Like, it's hard.

It can be hard, you know. So it's, it's, especially as a first time person, it's, it's very challenging. And when you don't have a lot of money, which equals time, you know, it can be really difficult. But I think the thing that was so comforting also was the connectedness of the actors, because if that's not there and needs more time and labor, it doesn't leave room for all the lighting that has to be done, all the continuity, all the other things that we're all thinking about. Very quick question to Diana. You clearly manifested this role by creating your ideal situation ahead of time. What are you creating next and is Miami involved? I love nothing more for Miam to be involved in any aspect of my creative life and personal life.

You know, I'll come to Lai more, come to New York more. It's really interesting because if you commit to that thinking of what's going to move me, what's going to motivate me, where am I spending my time, you're just so much more effective because you are, somebody once said to me, it's your career is not about what you say yes to. It's about what you say no to. Life too, right? Of course. And it's sometimes harder to say no. But I think if you, it really are being present with what's important to you and what's going to feel good at what time. Like I'm about to sing at the Carlisle and this will be my third residency there. and I was thinking about it the entire quarantine. I just thought it's still closed. It's year two.

It's still closed. And I would just love to be in that room and sing. And very generously, they asked me to be a part of their opening month. And so this is the first month that they're back. I feel so lucky to be in that room again, have had the time to dream the set that I would choose when that arrived. and the musicians that are, this band is just so crazy cool. And I also felt certain that that was going to be something that was important to me

and that whatever film I did next, which I go straight into filming right after that, needed to not be sad. I really wanted to experience it was either going to be really comedic or really dark and I'm doing this psychological horror film that really is embedded in the struggles that women have as it relates to fertility and that kind of experience. And again, very funny that this intersects with my life. You know, I think coming out of a marriage where that was the goal and the idea that that was what we were going to be achieving together, that not being realized and then stepping back into the

world as a person who is finding your footing again and not knowing when that goal is going to be achieved and having a lot of people, friends and other people kind of projecting onto you that your timeline is wrong. It's just very funny that it has been something that I have been really lots of thoughts around and feelings around and kind of, you know, feeling good in my own timeline and taking space for myself and all. And then that's going to be something. So again, it's funny.

It's like that kernel of storytelling was not something that I was dreaming up, but it doesn't surprise me that it's coming to me now, considering it is a topic of conversation, both within myself and in my friendship. Well, when you're ready for perimenopause, I got a great script for you to read. Great.

Diana, thank you so much for talking to us. And thank you for also all the press that you're doing for the film. It's very, very exciting. I'll be in New York. I'm doing Colbert. So that's exciting. And just all good things, really was such a pleasure to have my first experience, you know, as a director, with someone so into the process and who really, really kind of lined up with the way that I work and don't work sometimes.

It was such a joy. Thank you so much. I think you were secretly hoping that Diana would say, Myam was a real terror on set. She's very bossy. She's obstinate. She says no to everything. No, I knew that was the case.

I didn't need her to confirm it. She seems to think I'm a very nice person. The best part of that interview when you were like, and when all my issues get channeled into a positive way where they're effective. What do you mean? You were saying like the bossiness, the organizing, the multitasking. The multitasking. The multitasking when you're on set.

Like you have to channel that and that's a good thing. And like knowing exactly what you want when you want it. Oh, when I said I should only exist on sets. That seems to be the only place that I have to people listen to me. Well, technically that is the only place where people are employed to execute your vision. And maybe. I think everywhere is people being employed to execute my vision. I think that's.

Like even my children. No. Everyone should be doing it. Exactly the way that you want. Someone said that. Otherwise, it's wrong. Someone said that the other day. Whatever, we're doing a fundraiser at Call Me Cat.

And he was like, that's totally not the way I would have done it. But since you're the one who gets to decide if it's right, you do it your way. It's like, well, it's just I was setting up a spreadsheet that I thought would make things easier. How many times in your life has someone like said something, done something, made a decision, and you just like quickly rewrite how it would go better? I mean, that's all I do. See, this is why you're supposed to be a director. You just channel it into...

But here's the thing. There's plenty of people like me who aren't directors. They're just assholes. They're also suffering. No, but I know other... Oh, dear. I know... Sorry, Dinosaur almost fell.

I do know other people who are like that. The audio-only people are like, what dinosaur? They're a dinosaur. I won this dinosaur. I beat my children. in one of those water races at a fair. I won that dinosaur. I'm proud of it, too.

And you take it around with you and show your children to remind them. Not to mess with you. No, I wonder about all the people who have my personality features and don't get the opportunity to be a director. It's very frustrating. Or the people who do have your personality features get to be a director and then have to come back to real life. That's what my life has been. How's that return been going? You tell me.

Myam had a big realization recently. We should tell people. Let's take a pause for moments of peace and calm. Moments of peace and calm, Myam realizes something. I did have an interesting realization lately. I had some, it really started as like a new kind of like somatic, like body, like body awareness. But it feels like it's kind of extended to like personality. stuff like mind-body connection like it's indeed connected i kind of found like a new level of

basically tension that i was sort of like holding as a baseline this kind of body awareness has extended into more of an emotional awareness and seeing how much tension in the body um is held in the way we speak the way we think um you know it's it's rare that you run into someone who speaks and thinks really fast but walks really slow for example you know those things often go together. And, you know, I, I mean, my whole life, people have commented that I walk too fast, I talk too fast. And then they should see you type. Has anyone seen mine type? It's literally like she's punching her keyboard. Like when I first went to, like when I first got to start spending more time in Manhattan, I was like, this is my pace. Like I don't, why, I don't, I don't,

nobody has a problem with me here. Um, so yeah. But I don't live in Manhattan. I live here. And interact with a lot of people who do not work at that pace. And many people have complained about that, like my whole life, you know, about my pacing and things like that. But I, I don't know. I had, I recently had body work done. It was, I guess, maybe my first time back after, you know, COVID-ness. The way that I best can describe it is, if you've ever done, like, a meditation where they tell you to, like, relax the muscles in your face, like one bite, and you're like, I don't have any muscles in my vis relax. And then the nice lady usually, you know, tells you, like,

think about the creases in your forehead or, you know, the muscles in your forehead. And you realize, like, oh, I can relax them. And then if someone ever says, like, your eyebrows are up, like relax your eyebrows. And you're like, no, they're not. And then you realize, oh, I can relax my eyebrows. And you can do that with your whole face, your jaw, you know, even your nostrils. You know, there are some meditations that focus on, you know, one nostril time and your chin. the muscles around your mouth.

So you can do that. Here's really the take-home message of this. Myam realizes you can do that with your whole body. And I know that might sound like, of course you can. But if you do that with intentionality, it can take a minute. But what I've realized is I can tap into that now. I don't know why it happened. I credit this man whose name is Alex because that's who is doing the bodywork.

when you have a level of tension and you're holding stress, our likelihood of having a very fast reaction is higher. A fast emotional reaction rather than a reasonable response. Correct. And then the MIM 2.0 that you have been touting, you've had a lot less reactions to things. Yeah, and what it kind of looks like is holding my tongue, which is different than like shutting up.

What it means is that in the moment, I'm not using my first emotional response and that tension that builds when, let's say, your feelings are hurt, or maybe you misunderstand something, someone said. I'm acting on that a lot less, like to the point that I see that it's healthier to not react right away. Well, it's just even taking a small breath. We are able to provide a distance to be like, how do I want to respond versus react? Well, and again, it's not like no one's ever told me this, but for some reason, and this is what I've, you know, realized, especially in the last, you know, a couple years in particular, you can hear someone say those things, but for whatever reason, it didn't click. When I think now of how I'm trying to sort of regulate my speech and my, even my breathing, it's like I keep beating myself out, why did you do this before? And then I realized because you weren't ready to not do it.

And I kind of like, it got me a little freaked out. Like, oh, is this what really growing is? Things that you've been told all of a sudden are internal. Like, that's what it means to internalize something. You're having an expansion of awareness. Thank you. We become aware of the things that we are normally not aware of, the things that are often automatic that shift and or sort of create our experience.

And when we begin to become more aware of them, then we're able to first know them and then be able to regulate them in some way. In 12-step programs, they call that awareness acceptance action. But the awareness is just like, oh, the acceptance is, oh. And the action is, now I'm going to do something different. Yeah. Anyway, that was my moment, my Miami-M-realizes moment. And, you know, not unrelated to our conversation with Diana in terms of also, you know,

the things that we have to embody at different stages of life. And I thought what was really neat, you know, kind of like bringing this all back home, is that so many things Diana said, which are actors process, they're just human things. And it's kind of like, I never thought of myself as an actor, as a person who gets to be in touch with those processes more frequently because you're constantly shifting identities, right? And I used to mock my ex-boyfriend, you know, who was like very theatery and very, you know, and I was like, gosh, it's like, therapy, the way this theater teacher is talking about things and just like hearing what, you know, people do in acting class. And now I feel bad about it. But that, that is what it is.

Like for a lot of people, it's like you're learning how to have emotional reactions. And, you know, as an actor, you're doing it all the time and in different ways and in different relationships. Well, there's a adage or, you know, like an understanding of people who are outside of the industry. that actors like don't really know themselves or understand their emotions. And it's all they also say that like therapists go to school to fix themselves and to sort of understand themselves. But you have to wonder about people who spend their lives immersed in other people's lives or fake lives.

Yeah. Right. And how to have the appropriate emotional reaction to some fake situation and how do you like take parts of yourself and totally channel it towards towards that? Well, it brings me back to after my father passed away, I was on Big Bang Theory. And I remember pretty much that whole year, I remember getting like the constant note from Chuck Lorry, you know, of like, you seem sad.

Like the character's supposed to be angry, not sad. Like every emotion tended to sad, which if you've ever experienced grief, I mean, of any kind, but especially complicated grief or grief of, you know, it's like I didn't feel sad. I wasn't acting sad. It was like all the emotions came out wrong. like, oh, that's what it's like to be a human in grief.

And he knew that you were grieving. Yeah, totally. So was he nice about it? No, he was very nice about it. But meaning in the direction of the scene, it's like, it's coming across as sad. Like, you're angry or, you know, or whatever it is. And like, sometimes I would joke with him. I'm like, my father died.

Not in the show. No, you're just a bad actor. I mean, really hard to compartmentalize like that. Yeah, for sure. Well, I really, I do hope that people will check out as they made us. It is available. It's in some theaters, but it is available streaming. And we'll have information on Bialic Breakdowns, Instagram, my Instagram. It's an emotional ride and also a funny one.

And Diana is really, it is a beautiful performance. And I hope that knowing a little bit more about her and her family will make that performance even richer for those of you who watch it. It's also a beautiful film. You tell a really nice story. I feel uncomfortable. I should really start the praise now. I'm supposed to say thank you. First of all, it's your first film.

Why are we still talking about this? All right then. I said thank you. That's as much as I can do. One compliment, thank you. All right, from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. See our red her faces.

It's my and Bialics breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fiction. And now she's going to break down.