Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Dr. Becky Kennedy: Wire Your Children for Resilience

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

Dr. Becky Kennedy (clinical psychologist, founder of Good Inside parenting workshops, author) helps us use attachment, mindfulness, emotion regulation, and internal family systems theory to break down better ways to parent! She not only provides great, practical parenting tips, but also helps us understand our own upbringings, how they impact our lives into adulthood, and provides insight into why our parents did the things they did. Dr. Becky discusses why she found the best way to work with children was actually working with their parents through body-based approaches to psychotherapy, her own paradigm shift in parenting styles, and the differences between attachment parenting and helicopter parenting. She explains the importance of wiring kids for resilience with self-soothing techniques in order to ditch old patterns of behavior, building skills to manage emotions through validation, and how to provide kids with tools to process difficult emotions. Mayim and Dr. Becky define reflective listening, boundaries vs consequences, and how feeling alone can lead to shame and fears of abandonment. They discuss the benefits of learning to embody your authority as a parent, ways to provide structure to a child with anxiety, and the benefits of internal family systems (IFS) therapy. Mayim and Jonathan break down the benefits of cooking with your children. Dr. Becky Kennedy's Book: https://www.goodinside.com/book/ Dr. Becky Kennedy's Parenting Workshops: https://www.goodinside.com/workshops/ BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kids feel more than any words, more than any tone, more than any intervention. They know whether their parent is looking at them, like they're a good kid having a hard time, or they're a bad kid doing bad things. And that difference is what forms their identity and the role that they further identify with in their family. It's my and be all next breakdown. She's going to break it down for you because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. Amazon One Medical presents.

Painful thoughts. I've been on hold to make a doctor's appointment for 23 minutes now. The automated voice has told me 47 times that my call is very important to them. Hmm. I'm starting to think that they don't think my call is important at all. With Amazon One Medical 24-7 virtual care, you'll get help fast without having to remain on the line to make an appointment. Amazon One Medical. Health care just got less painful.

Hi, I'm I. Mbiolic and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to. How about this category? Parenting. We're going to break it down for you so you don't have to. We have an incredible, incredible lady who's, she's like the, she's the parent whisperer of this generation. And if you're not a parent, I really, really need you to listen to this episode.

It's almost more important if you're not yet a parent. because Dr. Becky Kennedy, she's a clinical psychologist, she's a mother of three, and she has a way to communicate the things that so many of us may have been missing in our own childhoods that we need both to be well-formed adults and also to parent effectively and in a way that's actually like fun and rewarding if we want to. first let me introduce you to the thing I was most missing from my childhood Jonathan Cohen oh that's a good one hey mine hi Jonathan Jonathan I'm very very excited about Dr. Becky Kennedy we're going to find out so many things not only about children but why adults are so messed up it's like why did our parents do the things they did is what she also helps us understand but how does that impact us not only in the way that we interact with with our children what if you never want to have kids I took

the things that may not have made sense to me about the way I was parented into every relationship that I've had in my life. Meaning, I treat everybody like a bad child sometimes. That's not okay either. That's the thing. How we interact with our children has everything to do with how we interact with ourselves, what we're able to process emotionally and what we're not, and how we interact with other people, the way we communicate with other people, the way we connect

with them. This episode definitely expands well beyond parenting. My mind is a little bit blown by this one. woman. Dr. Becky Kennedy is known as the millennial parenting whisperer by Time Magazine. The article on her in Time Magazine is fascinating. She's, I hate to even say this. Rethinking the way we raise our children, no. She's actually taking us back to the way that we intuitively should be parenting children. She specializes in thinking deeply about what's happening for kids and also their parents. And translating that into simple, actionable

strategies for parents. This is a lady who like, I mean, you just want to. to crack open her brain and learn all the things that are in there. Her first book is called Good Inside, a guide to becoming the parent you want to be. My goodness, we are so excited to welcome Dr. Becky Kennedy to The Breakdown. Break it down. Dr. Becky Kennedy, welcome to the breakdown. You are very, very popular with a lot of people that I know. And what's funny is, you know, obviously I have your book. And my assistant, who is a new mom, told me a lot about kind of specifically, like, what you speak to for her generation. I also just love your story that you weren't like, I'm going to be an Instagram doctor and fix everyone's lives.

Like you kind of accidentally wandered into, you know, a wisdom that, and I say this not to like bring you down, but to elevate you in that what you're doing. is not trying to revolutionize anything. You are trying to present the most rational, respectable way to create this next generation, who, by the way, we've given like a broken planet and culture. So there are some really incredible fundamental things that you talk about that so many people don't get. Tell us a little bit about sort of like your training, like you, like what you're, specialty kind of is, was, and how you became more of a public, you know, doctor, as it were.

First all, thank you. It's, like, really, really fun to be here and what you bring into this conversation that just resonates so much. So my experience and how this kind of all came to be. So I've always just found people fascinating and I found systems fascinating. So, like, families obviously are one system. I always kind of find actually businesses and leadership really interesting too. And pretty early, I guess in my teenage years, I realized you could like literally make a career out of that. So that sounded like really fun to do. So I went to Columbia to get my PhD there in kind of child and adult psychology. So play therapy and work with kids and therefore with their parents as well. And then also with adults. And then I really actually focused on therapy with adults, right? And because I realized

the thing I like the best about working with kids was actually working with their parents. But I didn't kind of connect the dots then and think, oh, I could do that. You're like, oh, wait. they turn out this way because of those people. I might as well focus on them too. I was like they spend a lot more hours with their parents than they would with me in the therapy room. So I just, I feel like I'm very practical.

I'm like, I feel like that's very efficient. Let me like work with them, you know? So I open up a private practice, worked with adults and like really deep psychotherapy. Like once at minimum a week, twice a week,

kind of really influenced by attachment theory, by internal family systems, by mindfulness, by sensory motor psychotherapy, like really kind of body based. approaches. And then I had my first, my first child. He's now almost 11, which is crazy. You weren't like, I've seen enough children that I don't want to do this myself. You were like, I'm going to do my very own experiment and I don't have to run it by any ethics committee. I don't know if that was really

the thought process, but maybe if I, you know, maybe deep down. I was like, oh, I could, I can shape this child into something. Yes. No, I was just, I guess, you know, I just never thought about not being a mom, you know, so my husband and I kind of, we met when we were in college, we got married early, so then we had our first. And I realized more and more, I just loved working with parents because I love the deep psychotherapy and it spoke to like this deep kind of mindiness I have and looking at kind of theory and translating into work and helping people access kind of more of their kind of sturdy selves, but I also really, really like to be practical and concrete and action-oriented. And I realized with parents, I could like really do that. But then I went to get more training because I was

like, okay, well, this is, you know, a big field. There are people who like know how to work with parents. So I went to this evidence-based parenting training. And I have to be honest at first, I was like, this is amazing. Like we can extinguish all the bad stuff. We can get more of the good stuff. Timeout, sticker charts, ignoring, praise. And truly, it wasn't like I was in this training and I would like raised my hand as a whistleblower. I did not. I was like eating it up because my brain, like the logical part of our brain, which is obviously only like a small part of our body, but it really like likes that. So and then I brought it to my practice and this is not a joke. There was literally a session that I heard myself talking to someone about how to give a time out when their kid hit their baby sister.

And I literally said, I was like, I'm sorry, I actually no longer believe the thing I'm telling you. And literally I was just like, I only thing I can tell you now is I'm going to give you your money. back. They were like, okay, well, that's kind of unnerving. And I was like, I just know this isn't the thing. I wouldn't feel good doing this with my kid. And I definitely wouldn't feel good if I was having a problem. Like, if my husband said I had a time out, like, I'd be like, you have the problem. Okay. Not me. So I was like, that must be how kids feel. And I just know there's a better way. Can you flesh that out a little bit. I mean, it makes me, it makes me very emotional because it is often when we see the thing that is hurting our child that we realize, how could I do this to you? And how could someone do

that to me, right? And you see it with the small, it doesn't even have to be, God forbid, hitting, right? Like, if you've ever scared your child with your temper, it feels like the, I mean, for me, it is the worst thing because it is so not what they actually deserve in that moment. What it is is it's an expression of my inability to control my emotions. And the look on that little face, right? I mean, it's terrible. So I just want to like, I want to like put an asterisk around that for you because like to be able to say, wait. Like that's a, you had a paradigm shift.

I really did. heard myself saying something. I don't know what it was that day. Like I wish I remembered more. Like I don't think anything happened with my son before I went to my private practice that day. Like I don't know what it was. But I, and I really mean this. I feel like as I gotten older and older, I feel like I like trust the data in my body, not like above and beyond science. Like I definitely believe in science. That data is really important. But that feeling of like, wait, this doesn't feel right. It doesn't mean there's any like objective truth to it. But, But it matters.

Yes. And I feel like it matters and it's the thing so many of us like are trying to get back to, right? And I was like, this just doesn't feel right. Like this can't be the way. There has to be a way that we can interact with kids that feels better to everyone. Because giving a timeout doesn't feel good to any parent. So then I was just like, what do I know? And I was like, I'm going to think about all these adults that I've worked with.

And all of them come to therapy for the same reason. Literally none of them on the surface come to therapy for the same reason. reason, but I feel like every one of us, me included, go to therapy because there's really like ways your body has been circuited early on. You know this, right? We've developed patterns early on that were put in place to protect us and stop serving us, but our body is understandably hesitant to let go of the things that were put in place to help us survive. So we're stuck. And everyone, that's true. And I remember thinking, well, I know the type of work with adults that really does help them rewire. And I just remember thinking, like, what if we reverse engineered that

to today's parents and then gave them a way to interact with their kids that both helped them adapt early on in ways that maintained being adaptive? Where, like, you didn't have to go through. I mean, we're all going to have to rewire in some ways, but, you know, really supported long-term development. What if we interacted with our kids today that would give them the skills they need for life rather than set them up in a way where they would kind of be 25-year-olds with kind of the same skills as like three-year-olds, right? And to me, the core skill we need in life is just emotion regulation. It's like the single thing that underlies every other thing we do. And I was like, that's what kids need.

And we know how, I know how adults now build regulation. I know what happens in the therapy room. I know these experiments I have them do. I know our relationship. I know the revisiting. I know internal family systems and understanding our parts and all of that. So what if I kind of just thought about, okay, well, how do you do that with kids? And then I truly remember thinking that.

So I said, you know what people love about behavioral kind of parenting approaches? People love clarity. And we all love clarity. We will, I really believe, will always choose clarity over something that, quote, feels good. Because feeling confused and like rudderless is just the worst feeling. Because every parent cares about their kids. So you want to have clarity on your role. So I just remember thinking, like, as these days went on, okay, well, if I'm going to kind of think

about how to translate some of these other ideas into a kind of practical approach, like, it has to, like, beat behaviorism and clarity, or at least be like as good. Like it has to, parents have to know, okay, this is what I do. I have to know what my role is. And if I know what my role is, I will be able to be effective. And so then, and then honestly, like, I just, I started running a bunch of parenting groups and doing parenting lectures. And, and I love. I love doing that. And honestly, for years, my husband's like, I don't understand. You will come home after a day of seeing clients and doing two parenting groups. Most people are exhausted. And you just want to tell me like everything that happened. And like, I love you. But I just like, I don't really, I don't really care. Enter the internet. You're like, millions of people will care. Right. He's like, you care and you need to like put that somewhere. And, you know, and he's always like, you should write a book. And then I was like, I could write a pamphlet. Because my pet peeve in the psychology world is I was like, why does everyone? write 30 pages for what could be expressed in like one paragraph. Like I feel like the field is full

that. It just feels so lofty. But what ended up happening is my three-year-old daughter, now I had second kid, was going through a lot of sleep issues. And so I was like, okay, I know about attachment. I know about regulation. I know about internalization of our relationships and self-soothing. And so I kind of like McIvered the sleep product for her that like changed her relationship with sleep. I then used it my private practice and also help kids around divorce and missing a parent and sleepovers and so many things around separation, it's literally basically like a recordable button, like of your voice,

like essentially saying the thing your kid would need to learn to say to themselves to soothe themselves or safety and. Obsessed. And anyway, but like to me, this is the thing. I was like, we can do both. Like,

we can help a kid in a good way. But every time she presses that button, she's learning the skill she would need to soothe herself in anxious moments in the future. Like there's a lot of like, and I feel good about it because she gets nice mommy on the button instead of very annoyed with her at 2 a.m. What?

You don't want me to. to record my angry shushing. No, me neither. Trust me. Mine's not shushing at 2 a.m. You know, so, and then my really good friend who's an entrepreneur said, like, we're making this a product. And she's like, and so I just started writing because I realized I was going to make a product. I had to do this writing. And then we abandoned the product at that moment, you know, where like the ideas mattered the most. And I had seriously probably a hundred written Microsoft Word pages of just ideas. But then I was like, well, I'm not doing this product. And I don't remember my sister or my husband, probably both.

It's like, well, they literally like it lives on your computer or it lives on Instagram. And I was like, what is Instagram basically? And my sister's like, you, you are pathetic. Like a lot of people use this. I'm going to show you. My NBialx Breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine.

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Make sure to mention My Ambiotics Breakdown to help support the show. And I put up my post, first post, February 28th, 2020, two weeks before pandemic craziness in the States. And then two weeks later, I put out this post about how our kids will remember more about how their family homes felt during coronavirus than anything about coronavirus itself. Our kids are looking us like kind of learning how to respond to uncertainty. Let's wire them for resilience, not panic, swipe for nine ways how. And that post, like now I didn't like when it went viral. and it just, that took off from there. Amazon One Medical presents painful thoughts.

I've been on hold to make a doctor's appointment for 23 minutes now. The automated voice has told me 47 times that my call is very important to them. Hmm, I'm starting to think that they don't think my call is important at all. With Amazon One Medical 24-7 virtual care, you'll get help fast without having to remain on the line to make an appointment. Amazon One Medical. Healthcare just got less painful. What's so important is that, and this is what I keep hearing people say about you, is you communicate the nuance of the concept and the scientific basis for what you're saying,

but you don't have to read 6,200 pages to get there. Like, you've done the research, and you went to school, and you did all the things, and also you're living it, and I'm sure, you know, we all have our days as parents and partners and all those things. But that's so exciting to me. This is very exciting. Jonathan, are you as excited as I am? I am. The reason that I'm bringing you into this conversation, Jonathan, is that this used to be called mothering, right?

This used to be called, you know, mothering. And what we've seen is a really positive, and yeah, I do believe it started with the women's movement in bringing partners and in many cases men, you know, into these conversations. But, yeah, I would like to hear from you because a lot of people may not know you are an extremely active. engaged parent who, you know, dedicates your life to parenting from a much more centered way than I even know how to summon a lot of the time. So yeah, I'd like to hear because although husbands were still kind of, you know, or boyfriends kind of in the shadows, I think it's important to hear from a dad voice, like what this means to you because you live it. You live it more consistently than I do, honestly. I joke with all my friends who are meditators and, you know, on a conscious path.

I'm like, you are not centered and calm or conscious until you have spent an entire day or week with a two-year-old. And if you can maintain your monk sensibility, I think actually monks should come and like work with a group of two-year-olds and see how well they maintain their centered and groundedness. because nothing is as, I don't want to say infuriating because you have to sort of let go of a level of expectation. And you have to communicate and foresee needs in a way that are not logical and necessarily rational to an adult mind. You're like, they're operating and sensing at a different level. My path as a parent has been, you know, trying to be as clear about what signals I'm saying. sending to my son that I may not be aware of and how is he reacting to those and how can I foresee what he will need ahead of what he may need and so that I'm creating the environment.

Like my son had really intense, well, I guess just different sleep patterns. And one of the advice that we got was that, you know, putting a kid to sleep is as much about the start of the day and the routine and consistency throughout the entire day as it was anything specifically at night. And I was like, when I heard that, I was like, oh. It's like, oh, their whole day actually matters for what kind of person they're going to be at night. Oh, it's not a doll. And I definitely was at that, like, I don't know, I was not a young, young parent,

but I was in my late 20s when my son was born. And I was like, if I just get them all out of exercise in the evening, he'll be tired out and he'll collapse. That didn't work. I think so often with like these parenting things, parents do go to like, oh, so I have to like do all the stuff during the day. But the flip side I always think about with parents is like, but that's actually really empowering. Like you don't have to get it exactly right at night. Like you just actually have a lot more opportunities to do one or two things, right? And it's so easy to it is.

I mean, it's so easy to just feel so overwhelmed and like disempowered. Right. But to me, the best goal with parents I work with and definitely, you know, on Instagram and definitely on the platform is like seeing how many parents, like, wow, this actually, like, I feel so empowered, like in parenting, but also outside of parenting. I didn't even know how frustrated I would be that someone wouldn't nap when I thought they were tired. And I literally, you know, I had to call the pediatrician. And he was like, Ma'am, he's not tired. If it's taking an hour to nurse him down, you're starting too soon. And I was like, of course, right. That's what it was. But it took me, it took me many, many painful weeks.

I kind of wanted to know if we could just like hit on a couple things. I don't want, I said to Jonathan, I'm kind of like nervous to have you on because I don't want it to be like, sum up all your things in, you know, this hour that we have with you. But I wanted to have you maybe do a little bit something different. I want you to speak, mainly I want you to justify all the things that I did that I hope were right. So one of the things that bothers me the most when people say it to me as an adult and they say it to kids is you're fine. You're okay. And it starts when they, fall. And, you know, I also came from this, this parenting style of, like, I was so over the top, like, with emotion that I didn't want to be that parent who was like, oh my God, you fell. What's going to happen? And then they start crying when you point out that they fell is often what happens, because crying is one of their only languages, especially when they're learning, you know, to crawl and walk and be. And so, you know, in many cases, we want to go the other way and be like, you're fine. Everything's fine. But what I realized is,

You wouldn't do that emotionally, so don't do it physically, right? And that sort of had to be the basis of where I started approaching it. Meaning when a child falls, and let's say they hurt themselves in their perception, when you say you're okay and they know that they're not because they are scared or they are hurt, it is very confusing to a child's mind to know that they're not okay and the person that's supposed to tell them what's what is telling them you're fine when they know that they're not. and it's true emotionally and it's true physically. Can you speak a little bit to kind of backing off on this culture of us telling them they're okay?

Like what's, I don't want to say what's wrong with it, but how can you frame this for us? The first thing that comes to mind for me is like maybe a little zoomed out before we zoom right back in on that, but I have so many thoughts about the falling down thing. The zoomed out kind of thought I have is in general, right? There's, I don't know, it's a culture or it's also the way. so many of us were parented, there's a focus on getting rid of emotions and not tolerating emotions. So those are just very different angles, right? Like bringing something to zero and making something more manageable are very different.

So telling a kid they're fine is like, I want to bring this to zero, right? It's always like well intentioned. A parent is like I, like, it's probably just also reflexive. But the parent probably in some level was like, this is how I learned to deal with emotions. And I see my kid upset. So what activates in me is whatever. you know, was circuited early in me. And yeah, so I think that this is all part of like that more general topic of are we trying to help ourselves and our kids tolerate feelings? And so they get to

a more manageable level. And I always like kind of, I'm very visual person. So I always picture, I don't know, we have like a jar of feelings. And now let's say pain or, you know, crying is the only thing happening for a kid. Am I trying to kill that off? Or am I trying to make that like a smaller part of the jar, which then would make space for the other feelings that were at that point crowded out, right? So that's what I would say. I also think that's just what, like, is more resilient in the course of your life, right? Because I always think, like, I just never had an adult come to my private practice saying their parents, like, successfully got rid of all their disappointment. Like, you know, and they never felt it again, right? So that just, it doesn't happen.

So you feel the feelings. It's either you have the skills or you don't. That's the only difference. And if that were true, they wouldn't be in your office, right? Exactly. Exactly. Right. Yeah. So I'm big on, like, the reason. And I think this is so important because I think it is easy for parents to say like, oh, but like I don't want my kid. I don't want my kid to be a snowflake or I don't need, I actually don't even really know what that means, but like I feel like people say a lot. Like I guess it's like, you know, they can like, I don't know, you know, you touch them and they, they get ruined, right? I want my kid to learn to cope in the world. And I really mean this. I love skeptical parents. Like I really think skepticism, like I really feel like it sits next

to curiosity. Like they're cousins or something. So it's right there. But, but. I always say to parents, like, yeah, I agree too. Like, I definitely don't want my 25-year-old to, like, have some, like, tiny elbow bang into the wall and them to, like, ah, you know, like stop their whole meeting at work. Like, that definitely would be awkward. I don't want that either. And the way we get there isn't by telling someone they're fine. It's actually by building the skill they would need to manage that feeling.

And the way you start to build a skill is by validating what's happening, right? It's like, I always feel like it's like the simplest way to say it is you cannot learn to regulate a feeling you don't allow yourself to have. Say that again. You can't learn to regulate a feeling. You don't allow yourself to have. You have to allow a feeling to live in your body, which is kind of the experience of like, oh, this feeling is real, to then learn how to manage the feeling. If you're in kind of, you know, if you're working toward getting rid of a feeling, you're trying to get the feeling out of your body. Well, how can you learn to manage a feeling? Right? So like I'll always say to those parents like, yeah, I agree. Like we're actually trying to do the same thing. I can explain to you how I see it. I'm not going to try to convince you. It's, you know, can see it anyway. But that's how I see it. Like we're actually, we're working toward the same goal. No one wants their 25 year old to like bang their elbow and like have a connection. Like that wouldn't be adaptive for a 25 year old. So but we just get very short sighted. So we think like I have to shut it down now. So we shut it down then. No, what's going to happen then is not that they're going to shut it down.

They're going to have a voice that says, oh, and actually this speaks to, I think, falling. The reason kids have such big feelings about falling is the violation of expectations, not the pain. And, you know, if there's one line that I think is a magical line with kids, and I'm laughing because my husband said it to me the other day. What I really needed to hear, too, is, oh, you didn't want that to happen or you didn't expect that to happen. Wow. And that's just an observation. This is what we call reflective listening, right? It's an observation.

You don't have to fix it, solve it, explain it to them, tell what color it feels like. It's an observation. And what it means is you matter. What you just experienced matters. Yeah. And I think it's like existentially deeper. Like I really feel like kids, like one of the questions I think they're always asking the world and therefore their parents is just like, am I real? Like I really think kids like, am I real?

That feeling that doesn't have a color or doesn't isn't physical. Like did that thing that I think I sensed? Like did that really happen? Like, and so I really feel like it's like, am I real? Um, I think the other question kids are asking are like, am I safe, right? So I think boundaries and validation and empathy and those are all ways of showing a kid you're real and you're safe. And if we fast forward, the kid who falls down and starts crying and the parent says, okay, I kind of want to say you're fine, but I'm going to try to say this thing.

you know what's going to say, oh, you didn't want that to happen. You know what's going to happen, let's say not from saying it once, but now your 25-year-old bumps their elbow. And you know what's amazing? They're going to say to them, oh, I didn't, I didn't want that to happen. And then they're going to go on with their day because they validated that experience to themselves, because they now have a language to talk to themselves that is the internalized language of how you approached that unexpected moment in their childhood. That kid is not melting down. Not like if they did, that's fine too. Something else probably is going on. It's not against that, but they probably won't because we've delivered them coping skills through our ultimate strategy, which is

our relationship with them in their tough moments. I love this. Okay, so that was like the first thing I wanted you to tackle. You fixed it. You get 110%. We love you. We're very into all the things you're saying. And also the way you say them, I like how you speak. Okay. The next thing I wanted to have you tackle. Okay. And this is, it's a personal one. And I do want to give out a shout out to Dr. Sigi Cohen, who is a therapist here in the Valley, who has taught me a lot of these things, meaning this realm of things. So when children, let's say, are experiencing divorce and they have to spend time, let's say, in two different places, or even if a parent, let's even remove it from divorce, when a child misses a parent,

let's say a parent is, you know, God forbid sick or on a work trip. when a child is crying for another parent, what Dr. Siggi told me was the hardest thing, because here were my solutions. Let's make a drawing. Let's call them. Let's write a letter. Let's have a cookie. Let's take a walk. And what Dr. Sigi said was, how about no to any of those? And I was like, but why? I fixed it. She said, no. What it is is, you miss your dad. Ouch. let me hold you. And I was like, oh, God, but that's going to make me cry. And she said exactly, because sometimes things are sad. And if they're sad for you as an adult, why would you ever try and take that away from a child who is developing and learning how to function in this broken world?

I'm going to push you before I answer. What makes you sad about him being or her being sad? Well, what I ended up having to say out loud to my child, and this was age appropriate, was I miss daddy sometimes too. It's hard. It's hard to not have daddy here. And I was like, oh my God, this is me living with my children. And it's not burdening them, meaning it has to be done in an appropriate way. But what they learned is like, yeah, this is life.

This is life. And the notion that my parents who were like, I mean, when I look back, they were children when they had me. I mean, they seemed so old, right? They were kids who had just moved out of their parents' house. My mom was 18 when she got married. Like they were kids. And I was raised with this notion of we know everything. And everything is fine, except that I knew that it wasn't.

And they knew it wasn't too, right? Explain what that means. Like, what do you do with hard feelings? Yeah. I do think we always have to like think about this long term because it's what it's what grounds us and it's what motivates us to do hard things with our kids. Like what do I think I want my kid to do. do when they're 30 and they're, you know, if my kid called me and they were like, I don't know,

my girlfriend of 10 years just, I'm making stuff, walked out. But I'm good, all good, mom. I'd be like, that's, that's disturbing. Like nothing? Like, I don't know, right? So, again, like, I always think simplest. We want to feel things how they are. To us, there's no objective are, but like we want to feel things how they are. And some feelings are more pleasant than others, but also the way things end up feeling in our bodies to me are a combination of the feeling itself and the way we respond to that feeling or the story we have about what the feeling means about us, right? I think especially as adults, right? So a feeling is the feeling itself and our reaction to the feeling. And we don't have any control over the feeling itself. We do learn

in our earliest years how to respond to the feeling, right? And, And I think the worst thing for humans is feeling alone. A loneliness attached to a feeling brings on like, you know, like shame. It brings on abandonment fears. It's kind of like a kid learned the part of me who feels this way is not attachable to others. So that part actually is it's threatening my own survival because my job is to attach to parents. Right. So, oh boy.

So the next time I feel that feeling when I remember, my body remembers like, you're being ridiculous or you're overreacting or come on, you're fine. My body remembers aloneness. My body remembers I was in kind of some emotional hole. Everyone was just trying to pull me out, but no one actually just gotten there with me. Also, what you learn is that feeling must be so bad because if my parent is so scared of me feeling that way, oh my goodness, that actually must be such a destructive, awful, wrong feeling to feel.

So of course the next time you then, let's say it's miss your dad, that much more intense. What's the alternative? I mean, I think there's a couple things. Number one, just like, that advice is great. Like, just name what's happening. It's like in some ways the simplest thing. Like, you're sad, you're not seeing dad. Like, even if you say nothing else, it's like so simple in a way, but so, it's so hard because maybe this, if I think about divorce, for an example, a lot of parents, they hear their kids say, I miss dad and they feel so guilty.

They essentially feel, they go into bad parent mode. I fucked up my kids. It's all my fault. and then they can't tolerate their kid's feeling because their kid becomes just like an actor in their play and they have to make the feeling go away to make themselves feel better. There it is. And then the kid loses out. Everyone honestly, I think the adult loses out too.

Totally. Because both people kind of collude in the fact that they're both probably more resilient than they think. And they both could actually cope with those things. It's also just a level of emotional honesty. like you have to be vulnerable in a way as a parent and most parents are trying to protect themselves because they're in that cycle that you described of feeling something and then not being able to feel it and most of us have never been taught how to do that and so we fly off into anger and rage and trying to control their emotions but really like because I've heard it said that you can't

hold space for what you can't hold for yourself so if your kid is going through this intense feeling then how are you possibly going to do it if you've never allowed yourself to feel any of these emotions? That's why the triggers come in. 100%. And yeah, I think, I don't know if either you've read Richard Schwartz's work, because internal family systems is like just brilliant. And he talks about the internal family systems in our own body in these different parts. And, you know, I think the vision that comes to mind for me is, let's say, I see my kid really sad that they miss their dad, whatever it is. And my body, like, kind of scans itself. And it's like, what do I know about?

about dealing with sadness because it's just like a circuit. And if what my body knows about sadness is shut it down, shut it down, danger, danger, danger, that part is actually trying to help. And it's like, oh, I know what to do. And then it like rises up and talks to your kid. It's literally, you're not even talking to your kid. You're talking to yourself. Right. But these are those intergenerational patterns then that just kept passed on until we changed them. I want to stay on this because my concern is that people would be like, why are they having a parenting person on? We're not all parents or whatever. But here's the deal, people. This is the mirror that Dr. Becky Kennedy is holding up to you. All the things that even if you don't have children, if you don't want children, if you don't

believe in children, what this kind of communication that this woman is having with you on her Instagram and in her books and like with us right now, this is the stuff that many of us didn't have, and it is the stuff that I would like to believe our parents would have wanted if they knew to do it this way or to do it different. And I know there's a lot of people who might be like, it's fine. I was hit. I'm fine. Everything's fine. Great. I'm happy for you. And if your life is how you want it, I appreciate that. That's great. But I remember what my mother said. She got married in 1964. And she said at that time, she was considered a feminist because she she wore what she wanted and her religious family didn't like that she wore open-toed sandals to this wedding.

She was considered a feminist because she spoke her mind. Like that was insane. But she said the fact that, and I promise this will loop back, she said, I gave up my name. And she said, I was treated like a piece of property being taken into a home. And she said it was the pinnacle of her existence was to give up your name. It meant someone would have you. You could leave your parents home. But she said, looking back, she said, if I knew then what I know now, of course I would have kept my name so that I could find friends when I was a grownup, right?

And when I think of that and I think of this, I know that my mother, she would have wanted this if she had the resources and the ability to take it in. One of the things, though, that I wanted to have you speak to is two things happened when I learned to approach parenting this way. I spoke a lot more than I thought I needed to, and I needed to shut up a lot more than I thought I'd have to. And people associate a patch from parenting and people who parented like I did with like helicopter parenting. And actually, you can be an attached from parenting and be a helicopter parent. you can also not be an attachment parent and be a helicopter. It's actually totally different. So what I learned was the Rye philosophy, R-I-E, the R-I-E-E-E-The Rye infant period.

Yeah. And the Rye philosophy, along with kind of the stuff that you're talking about, actually makes you shut up a lot because you do not need to constantly narrate your child's experience in the universe. Can you speak a little bit to kind of where we have to put our voice? first just the word noticing, I feel like, is the first word that comes to mind. Like just even without talking, just like noticing what's happening for your child is like an action that's valuable. Right. It's less palpable maybe than like saying something or doing something, but noticing, right?

So it could be noticing your baby and how they're exploring the world and saying to yourself, because we're just also action oriented. Me too. I'm such an action oriented person. but we all like to do, do, do. So being is like hard for people and, I mean, and hard for me, right? So just watching and reminding yourself, this is all I have to do. I'm just going to watch my baby.

That matters. I'm learning too. I think another thing that comes to mind is, and it relates to fixing also versus noticing, is some of the most powerful interventions with kids, I think, just come from like stating what's happening in front of you. I don't want to go to school. You're going to school versus like, I don't want to go to school. Oh, there's something about this morning.

You just like don't want to go to school. Like I just literally said it, you know, which again, I think what a kid feels in that way is that feeling that led to that verbalization. They're like, oh, that's real. That's feeling is real. And when something's real, we just, you know, we can approach it differently, right? And a kid feels like they feel seen. Right. And once any of us feel seen, we feel much less attached.

to the thing we said we wanted that was really just about feeling seen for the, you know, the need. So as soon as, that's true for adults too, right? Me and my husband are arguing about like where to go to dinner and he's like, oh, you really do want to go to sushi. I'll probably be like, oh, we can go to pizza. That's fine, right? Like all of a sudden I'm just flexible because I feel real, you know, that feeling feels real.

So I always think about this thing that happened with my son where he woke up, my youngest, he's like four and a half. So the other day, he woke up and he always wakes up like before his grief. light, right? So it's like before 7 a.m. And he like, he gets dressed. He's like my third. So he's like the most independent. He gets dressed. He brushes his teeth. He does all the things his older siblings don't do. And then he comes out at seven. He's the good one. That's what you wanted to say. He's the good one. He's the one who like, I did the least, right? And it speaks to like how they will just do the things they need to do and you lay off. And so I went in. It was like 705.

And I was like, you know, and he wasn't even dressed. And he was like, I woke up at the green light. because it's usually the red light. And I was like, okay. And in my mind, I'm like, okay, like, everybody wins. You had better sleep. Like, do your thing. We have plenty of time. And he's like, and I'm not getting dressed and I'm not going to school. This makes no sense, right? So it makes, it feels like it makes sense to me to say, like, you're not making any sense. Just get dressed now. Come on. We got to do the thing. And this is what I end up saying to am. It was like one of my good parenting moments. It doesn't always go like this. But I was on it that day. I said, oh, let me see if I got this right. You woke up and it's always the red light.

And it's always the red light. And when it's the red light, you get dressed and you brush your teeth and you wash your hands and you, you know, whatever, the whole thing. And then you wait and you wait and you wait. And then it's the green light. And then you turn your light on. And then you do the rest of it that you come out of the room. And I was like, but today, like that got totally messed up. And you woke up.

And it wasn't the red light at all. It was the green light. And it's almost like that's so different. I can't even do any of the other things that I usually do in a sort of. certain order. By the time I got that part, he literally got out of his bed and started doing his whole routine, like the entire thing. Like the entire thing. What did you do? So, so what did you do? What I did is I told him what was happening to him. I just told him his experience. Like, honestly, it wasn't, I don't even, I really means I don't even interpret it that much. I just was like,

there's something about saying to someone, let me see if I got this right. And they're always, you know you should say that to a kid when it's the moment that you just want to tell your kid what to do instead. Just put on your shoes. Just put on your shoes. It's like always the right time. If you can to take a deep breath and say, let me see if I got this right. You really don't want to put on your shoes today. Now, like, is there magic to that?

Is your kid going to spontaneously put on their shoes? No. Like they're not robots, but skyrocketed. Skyrocketed. I just, again, it just, I feel like it always goes back to feeling real and feeling seen and feeling less alone. And when you feel less alone, you know what it is? Like you have, you've movement, right? Feeling alone is like part of the animal defense state, right? It's like a freeze response when you feel threatened in that way. And there's something about feeling a

connection to someone. I feel like it unfreezes you. So you can have movement. You can get out of a power struggle. You can choose something different. I feel like this happens is like my, like all the time with my kids when I'm when I realize it's like they actually need something so simple, right? Like, oh, let me say if I got this right. This birthday party isn't what you thought it would be. It's like a lot noisier, right? There's a lot more kids. You thought it was going to be just the kids in your class and it's the whole grade. That's really different from what you imagined, period. You don't need to fix it. You don't need to be like, let's leave. Let's do that. Just like see where that, because also they are very, very complicated creatures. And I promise you, with all my training and all my science,

blah, blah, blah, with all the therapy I've been in, I literally didn't realize that pretty much as soon as their toddlers, there's an entire, like, structure of their psychology. I thought it's like, you play with them until they're 10. Then you help them do it their homework. Then they leave your house and they make you happy. Like, I'm serious. I had this notion. And then it's like, oh my gosh, they have so many needs and thoughts.

And, like, they have a sense of humor so quick. Like, I literally didn't realize. They're tiny, tiny adults, you know. I mean, or we're just. giant children. Both. Exactly. I mean, I think what resonates about that is just do we all need the same things?

We're all looking for the same things. Right? And this other model of parenting, again, you know, just like the punitive, the looking at your kid, no one says this, but like you're looking at them like the enemy essentially words like defiance, you know, manipulation. You're like, well, like it's just like aggressive. you know, like you're pitting against each other. Like, I can't imagine, you know, I say this a lot.

Like, if I was sitting on the couch reading a book and my husband was like, Becky, we got to go now. And if I was like, I need five minutes. And he was like, you are defiant and you will get your iPad taken away. It's just like, it's absurd. Like no one, no one would hear that and think he was right. They'd be like, you have like a real, you've got something going on there. Like, you know, she's not complying.

Okay, that's true. That's frustrating for you. okay she's not doing the thing you want her to do but like what's really going on there right or the kid who's quote fake crying right manipulating me like well why why does a kid feel like they have to escalate the expression of their emotions to get attention that's that's a deeper story too that's what i do as an adult it doesn't work oh i guess it doesn't work it doesn't work okay so that's that's extremely helpful um i want you to do a little tidbit on what we call Again, I don't know what the new term is that the kids are calling it. We used to call it reasonable consequences. So we were, you know, kind of taught and, you know, educated in this style of parenting. And what we were told and what worked for us was that and you may not agree.

But I'm just going to say mine and you could do yours. Yeah. So I have never, and I mean never. I have never withheld dessert or whatever. I've never withheld a treat. I've never threatened to withhold a treat. I have never taken away technology as a consequence for something that was not technology related. And what reasonable consequences means is that it does not ever make sense to a child as a method of discipline, in my opinion, to have something taken away from them that has nothing.

to do with the infraction that occurred. So for me, if a child is abusing, misusing whatever, their technology, it makes sense to say, if you cannot be honest with your technology time, we're going to take a break from technology, and that's a consequence, right? But for example, when I hear people saying, if you hit your brother one more time, I'm going to take away your iPad, to a child's mind, they don't do that math that you're doing. And, And I remember that this worked until it became hard to make it work, and we had to find other things. But my favorite example, children go through a phase of wanting to throw things when they have a new sibling in the house, when they never threw things before. And what this was was my almost three-year-old saying, you're going to change the rules?

Let's see what other rules can change. And so he started throwing his trains, his little wooden trains. And so what we did was we did, balls are for throwing. So we were a family that did not use the word no. We used other ways around it, but we're just those hippies. So balls are for throwing. We try that. You do that.

You repeat it because, you know, conditioned response. Like, if you do this, I give you a ball, blah, blah, blah. It didn't work. So finally, I said, we do not throw our trains, and I'm going to put the trains away for some time. And he doesn't know what time is at that point. And I took his bucket of trains, you know, all the little bucket. He did not like watching this happen. And I very calmly, I walked it all the way to the kitchen and I put it on top of the refrigerator.

and he, I mean, one of the more hysterical moments he's had, and also he just had a new baby brother, and he's hysterical. And what happened was, and this was my experience, which I have seen replicated, the trains were up there for two days. He did not tantrum about it. He asked for them the next day, and he would cry, and then he would find something else to play with. And I took the trains back down, and he never threw a train again. And I'm not just saying this anecdotally. I'm saying that this was the way we approach things if you misuse or hurt an object. When it comes to hitting, you cannot take away their hands and it became much more complicated. But I would like you to speak to this notion of consequences that are related to the thing. And also it sets up a weird relationship for me with

food and technology if it's dangled that way. Can you speak a little bit about that and fix it for my head? Okay. So first thing, I think the mindset we're in with our kid is the most important thing. And to me, it's all about recognizing, do I see this as me against my child where my child is a problem? Or is this me and my child against a problem? I mean, it's the same thing with a partner or like anyone at work. If it's not me and you against a problem, no intervention is going to be successful. And so the way I put that to practice in my own world is like the way I'm thinking about this, do I like my child right now or do I not really like my child? If I don't really like my child, then I'm probably thinking about it as me against you.

And here's the thing for me about the word consequence. I don't like anyone I give a consequence to. Like, I just don't think I like someone if I'm using that word. That, to me, is, like, the source of truth. I don't like defiance. If I'm calling someone defiant or manipulative, I don't like them. So I don't like any of those words. I don't like the word consequence, actually.

I mean, it's fine. It's a word. No, but you're right. I've said that to Jonathan. This is the consequence for, that's a terrible, hurtful thing that I said. And Jonathan, I'm apologizing. Because it's true. I feel very justified in saying, well, it's just a consequence.

It's a terrible thing to say. So, but here's where I see the difference, right? What I often think we do as parents with even the consequence is it's, I think a lot of us, especially women, we have a lot of trouble embodying our authority and being a leader. And to me, in place of a consequence is a boundary, is I'm not going to let you throw. I won't let you. To me, the phrase that every parent needs in their vocabulary is, I won't let you. Because you see a kid throw, what they're saying is, I can't stop my own urge.

Is anybody here capable of stopping this urge, right? which is why it's so dysregulating to parent for kids where they're like, you know I throw a truck. Why would you even leave me in a room with a truck? Like if you know I ran into the street, I don't think a parent would be like, go and just don't run into the street. They would just be like, I'm not going to let you because it's not safe. It's not a consequence. I'm just going to be the boundary for you that you can't be for yourself. Because I'm the adult and you're the child and I'm taking care of you even in ways that you don't yet understand.

That's exactly right. And visually, a kid has to feel like you can set a boundary. You can be the container for their really big urges and feelings that they can't be for themselves. That's the first time they realize it is possible to contain this feeling because someone else did it for me. So go to the truck example. I'd have something very similar.

I probably would phrase it slightly different. But it would be like, I'm not going to let you throw those trucks. You look like you're having a really hard time making good decisions. They're trucks. It's not your fault. You're not a bad kid. You're having a hard time. So I'm going to move the truck.

I'm not going to let us have the trucks, right? Then my kid cries. I can still empathize. no, you wish you had those trucks. You know what? In next couple days, you and I are going to figure out a different way to get that out. And then when we feel like it's safe again, I'll bring back the trucks. I'll probably stay close to you.

If it happens again, I'm going to remove them. Like, no one's the bad guy. I always think, like, the thing kids feel, I think, more than anything else from parents is, does my parent look at me like I'm a good kid having a hard time or a bad kid doing bad things? Say that. Say that again. Kids feel more than any words, more than any tone, more than any tone, more than any intervention. They know whether their parent is looking at them, like they're a good kid

having a hard time or they're a bad kid doing bad things. And that difference is what forms their identity and the role that they further identify with in their family. Right. So we say to our kids, why are you throwing? You have a baby sister. Your older sister never did this. Come on. What's wrong with you? You know what a kid takes in? Like, I'm the bad kid. That's who I am. I take in that in as a the thing with, you know, listening issues, all of these things. Why is my kid keep throwing? Again, it's like, this isn't a listening issue. This is your, even a well-meaning parent. This is your inability to embody your authority and say there's no trucks. What? That, I mean, that you just said it. This is your, I mean, and that's what, that's what has occurred to me

every time I have raised my voice, every time I have angrily shushed, every time I have grabbed my child, not gently. Yeah. It is my inability. And that's a thing. So many people they want to dig their heels in. No, it's fine. I have to hit them if they're going to run into the street. That's actually not true. It's the year before. It's the two years before. It's all the things. And yes, if this sounds like hard work, that's because it is. But let me, I want to reframe that. Because to me, you said something in beginning about child focused parenting. I actually think good inside, it's both. But I think if people had to

choose, it's parent focus. Because what parents say to us is, wow, like through this way of thinking about my kid and the work on myself, like my kid's behavior changing, which actually has happened, is actually like the number 10 thing on the list of things that have changed. Like I asked her a promotion for the first time of my life. I asked my partner if they would get in so I could sleep for the first time on a Saturday. My partner sighed and look annoyed, but I was able to still do the thing I want and not take that in as my fault. Like, I feel confident and sturdy. So one, yes, it's two things are true. It's hard work. And I always think for parents, there was, someone asked me this. I actually literally ran into someone on the playground in New York City the other day.

And she was like, I follow you. And I've been thinking about joining your platform. And I know this is like so weird. I'm asking you this at a playground. But there's just so many things out there. Like, can you, can you promise me if I join? Like, it's going to help my kids. And this is what I said to I was like, look, I actually, yes. Like, I'm that confident. But here's what I'm more confident about. it's going to help you. Like, we care about being a parent. We deserve to feel confident and clear and sturdy. Like, not just for our kids' benefit, for our benefit, like, as a human adult, right?

So, yes, learning to embody your authority is always the alternative to consequences. Like, I know my little one who's zero people pleasing in him. He will press every elevator button in the world. So either I can say don't. I want to do that. Sure. It's very fun. right, a lot of feedback when something lights up, right?

So either I say, don't press the button. Hey, hey, I set you. If you press one more button, okay, or when I get in the elevator, I stand between him and the buttons. And when he lunges forward, I say, I'm not going to let you push those buttons, sweetie. That's it. There's not even a listening problem.

And there's no consequence. That's it. I've just avoided that whole thing. The other thing I'll say about consequences is this. Like, just linearly. There's a feeling or urge or thought. if we can't manage that or haven't learned the skills or just don't have access to them, then if those feelings urges and thoughts get so big, they convert into behavior, right?

Disregulated behavior is a sign of a dysregulated feeling. There's three things, right? There's a feeling or a thought or there's an internal sensation. Let's say there's a feeling. I feel really unsafe and insecure and jealous of my brother, right? My new baby brother. Okay. that if if that feeling overpowers the skills you have to manage that feeling, then the feeling

explodes out of your body. It literally is like, I can't live in here. I don't have the skills to stay in here. So they come out and it comes out in your extremities and words and a bite and your fingers. So now there's the hit. Okay. Then after that, maybe there's a consequence that you give, taking away your iPad, unrelated, whatever, fine.

Like, I always think it's interesting. Like, don't we want to change the circuit before the behavior? Like, why do we think a consequence after the behavior is going to be the thing that makes a child stop the behavior? Like, it's not true for adults either. Like, adults aren't like, wait a second, you know what's going to happen if I yell? I just, you only stop yelling if you manage the feeling. That's exactly the problem for me as an adult. And Jonathan and I have been like, we spoke to some really unbelievable people on this podcast that like rocked our brains recently.

And we've been like communicating differently. And lo and behold, if I pause, if I think about what I really need to communicate and if I'm vulnerable with how I'm feeling that is leading to me wanting to act out and tantrum. Like I can stop that. And yes, it means more meditation because I have to like, I have to calm my nervous system on a daily basis. Because if I come at the world at an eight, I'm very quick to blowing my top. And I do it with him. I'll do with my kids.

It's the same thing with children. You said change the circuit before the behavior. And it's not too late people. It is not too late. Because people will say to you, I'm sure you get this all the freaking time. You don't know my kid. I have to put them on a leash or they won't blah, blah, blah. I have to hit them.

It's the only language they understand. People, this is not the only way to parent. And again, I think that we're skeptical parents and I can align is, again, like, yeah, I agree. We definitely want your kid to stop hitting his brother. Like, definitely. But also, here's the key thing we miss is we forget. get like in that situation, a kid who's hitting their younger brother, like both kids are the victims

there. Like, you need to protect the kid who's being hit for sure. But you also need to protect the kid who feels so out of control and who feels like a bad kid. Like that, that kid needs so much protection. They're trying to get a need met and they have a limited vocabulary and we have to give them the vocabulary. I think that's exactly right. So if we go further in that example, let's say it's hitting. Right. What I always teach parents is okay. So first of all, you want to watch your kid and you're going to start to notice. Again, there's the power of noticing. Just notice like the way your kid changes their body or like when do you think they get close to hitting. That's when you pull your kid aside. Wow, it's really tricky to share your toys with your new brother. Oh, I don't know about

you. And this is like I think a big thing for me. Like I don't know about you. I need a deep breath. Like again, from the aloneness. You can't just teach your kid a skill. They feel shame. They feel other. But you can create that space. I've now already intervened in the circuit. Frustration was building in my kid's body and it was met with pausing, moving away from a target. and taking a deep breath. That's going to do way more to limit, reduce, eventually, end hitting than giving a consequence, which doesn't teach a skill, which adds something after the behavior that you don't even want. And now you've added shame and blame, which only makes feelings more unmanageable. Like, I just, I just feel like logically, it doesn't even make sense.

Another thing that I wanted you to speak to, and it kind of like runs throughout a lot of things you do this. You put it under the category of like not being alone. One of my favorite things, and I don't think I learned this from anyone, meaning I gathered it and the way that I say it, and it usually happens when I'm stumped, like when someone's crying and I don't know what to do. And what I learned to say to them is, I've never been your parent with you at the age you're at, with me at the place I'm at in my life until this moment. So give me a second. Because I don't have all the answers.

I've never been, I haven't, I mean, cosmically, I've never lived through their childhood with them to know how to handle things. So when things happen that I don't know what I have to say and it is, it's like, I need a minute because we have to figure this out together. I'm still your parent. I still know what I'm doing. we're not besties, but we're in this together. Can you speak a little bit to that? And I think what it gets into is also this family systems thing, which is more of an academic psychology thing that you're

kind of bringing to us in a layperson's way. But can you kind of speak to that, that dynamic? First of all, I think we all want like a sturdy leader in our life. I always think about this as like this pilot metaphor where like if you're a passenger and you're going through a ton of turbulence, and it's like really, really, you know, like scary turbulence. I feel like there's three pilots that come on. The first pilot is like, I don't know what you're talking about. There's no turbulence. It's fine.

Please, like, everyone would be quiet. You're making big deal out of nothing. And like, that's so invalidating. Now you're like, does this pilot not even realize there's turbulence? Like, because like that doesn't feel good. And I know I know I felt it. I think I know I felt it. Like you're panicking for that reason.

So that's the parent who's like, you're fine. It's no big deal. Second pilot is like, this is really turbulent. Like anyone out, I'm going to open the cockpit door. anybody want to come in. And now you're like, I'm now just terrified that this person's my pilot. I don't even care about the turbulence. And to me, that's the parent that, and it's no one's fault, but when their kids are having a hard time, they kind of merge into that hard time. And again, now the feeling isn't even scary to the kid. The thing that's scary is that this person is like

they're a leader through this. And then there's a third pilot that I would want on my flight who says, yes, it's turbulent. It's okay that you're all, you know, screaming. Yeah, having feelings, Okay, scream away. It's not going to, like, disturb me. I still know we're going to land in Los Angeles, wherever they're going. Or maybe they even say this. Look, it is really turbulent. I know we're going to figure this out. We might have to land early. I'll let you know when I have more information. That's all I know now. I've got this. I'm ending this conversation. And to me, what you're saying there, Ma'am, is like, it's actually one of my favorite strategies. I think it's like what kids with anxiety need exactly in the moment is like there's some structure I find to saying it this way, which is like, look, here's what I know and here's that I don't know. Right? And that's kind of what you're. you're saying, like, I don't know exactly what to do in this moment. But it's, it's so helpful for people to hear a sturdy leader, name what they don't know. Because when you name it, you categorize it and you almost make it a known quantity, right? So, like, this is amazing at, like, doctor's appointments. Here's what I know and here's what I don't know. You're going to get a shot. It's definitely going to hurt. I don't know what arm.

I don't know which nurse is going to do it. I don't know how long it's going to hurt for. What I definitely know is I'll be with you the whole time and we'll get through it. Right? And like, you're like, oh, okay, I got, okay, we all got this now, right? And like, I think that's what you're even saying. Like, I don't know. I'm your parent. Like, I'm going to figure it out and we're going to figure it out together. And if it doesn't go well, we'll figure it out from there. But I don't know everything. And I think that's actually, I think that that's really confidence inspiring for anyone, definitely for a kid. Because now, if you're not scared to name what you don't know, they don't feel as scared of the unknown as well, because they at least feel like they have you to go through it with. Jonathan, I'm going to turn this over to you.

Dr. Becky, why does mine feel so alone inside all the time? He's not just being facetious. There are those among us who have been through whatever we've been through with the genetics that we have and the chemistry that we have. And there's still a lot of guidance, you know, that I still feel I need. And yeah, I'm kind of curious when you meet adults, you know, also who are kind of parenting through this. There was a book, Mothering Without a Map that many of us, you know, read. What do you, you know, what do you kind of offer, you know, to parents? parents like that. I don't want to say like what's missing, but I obviously have been in therapy and I'm one of those people who's in psychoanalysis for 20 years because there's a restructuring of like that scaffold that kind of keeps going. Well, you know, the thing that resonates with me most about this is parents always, because like they're like, which of your workshop should I start with? This is what's going on with my kid. This is what. And then I always say the same thing. I go to the reparenting workshop. And they always say, no, sorry, my kid's hitting like are their sleep issues. And I was like, yeah, yeah.

The reparenting workshop. The reparenting workshop. Reparenting workshop. And it's really inspired by, I mean, you will seriously love Richard Schwartz's internal family system book. Sorry, I thought, I was going to say my workshop. I actually think you'd love my workshop. But I think. Do you hold me?

Can you hug me? Yes. Basically. Basically. I do in a whole process. It's, it's, I think my styles, I do, like synthesize a lot of psychoanalytic thought, you know, attachment, internal family systems. body-based work, but then I do. I know that I translate it into like specific actions because to me what some, you know what sometimes is missing from even great therapy is like we do actually have to

do things. It doesn't have to be some like CBT exercise, but you actually do have to do things to give your body a different experience than it's had to put that knowledge or awareness or insight into action to change the circuits. Like you actually have to make that link. And so you can spin in all the realization. Insight doesn't bring change. It just doesn't. Insight can bring awareness. and if you know actions that are powerful, then that can lead to change. But you actually have to do different things. And so I think what's really different about my reparenting workshop is it adds deep as anything. But again, it's simple language.

But then it actually gives like real strategies around that rewiring. Janina Fisher's book, I don't know if you ever read her book is like just hugely helpful too. Internal family systems just to plug it, even though I'm like so not an IFS spokesperson, but it's all about developing new relationships with those parts. that they don't have to take such an extreme function anymore and can do other things. I could cry. I mean, like, I can't even tell you many people in my community are like, I found an IFS therapist. And in three sessions, I feel like I've made more progress than I have in like 10 years with my other therapist. It is so powerful. It just like speaks to what our

body needs to hear. And that's definitely like very influential. So I think, I don't know the exact reasons. I don't, you know, I wouldn't presume. But I have a feeling that like this idea like am I actually taking action to restructure the relationships inside me so that I can respond differently to the events outside me. I'm always curious about this. How'd you get the way you are? Are your parents both are they artistic? Are they academic? Where do you come from? I had like to like, you know, I think at the core of it my parents like always made always looked at me like I was a good kid having a hard time when I was having a hard time. I think that did profound things for me. I think I felt very safe with them. My mom is the most non-judgmental human being.

ever met and deeply curious about why people are the way they are. I don't, I feel like what I had really work on my own was getting out of kind of the good girl, people pleasing role. And, you know, I've really worked on like setting my own boundaries. And I feel like that's a huge part of who I am now. That was, you know, therapy and other things. But my parents, I felt like, you know, always saw the story underneath, you know, my struggle. And, you know, we're deeply interested. My mom especially, my mom, especially in like feelings and internal states. Do you have siblings? Yes, I have an older brother.

He's three years older. And I have a sister who's five years younger. Oh, you're the middle child. It all makes sense now. Right, right, right. I am. Fascinating. Tell people where they can go for all things, Dr. Becky Kennedy.

I'd say for all things good inside, because I really do think that the power of like all the stuff that's happened and the platform and the book is, I really mean that. It doesn't feel like mine. It feels like this has like ignited other things in people that they then spread to other people. It's like the best part. So goodinside.com is, you know, the easiest place to go from there. You can find my podcast. You can find our weekly email.

And you can find what I'm most proud of, really, which is my, this whole platform, which gives people truly like a Netflix style digital library with short content, workshops, scripts, the whole thing. And a community that's global. It's like in over 30 countries already. It's like the most amazing non-judgmental, supportive, knowledgeable parents. And we've trained parenting coaches and other specialists, occupational therapists, cross-cultural psychologists, couples therapists in the good inside approach. So you have like so many expert resources there.

I also just want to mention even if you have a child with special needs, if you have a child on the spectrum, if you have a child with behavioral problems, the concepts of what you talk about are absolutely true. The tools may be different. The methods may be different. Some of the language may be different. But this is not elitist. This is not just for a certain type of kid or a certain type of parent. This is information that should be available to parents of every socioeconomic background in every neighborhood. Like this is like it's very, very basic, wonderful, complicated and very simple stuff. It has been such a pleasure to talk to you. And really from the bottom of my heart and I speak for Jonathan as well. For you to put this out in in a mainstream forum is something we have waited for, you know, and that did not exist. And it's really, I just, I wish you only good things. I'm sure your kids give you hard days. I'm sure you have bad days. Like, you're very much a human person. But this knowledge that you are spreading is such a gift to the generation of parents that are having access to it. And you're just, you're freaking amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Here's one thing we didn't get to talk to her about.

It's one of her Instagram posts. When your child says, look what I made. Instead of saying, that's awesome, try, wow, how did you think to make that? There's many ways that we cut off the conversation with a kid and we don't get access to a lot of magical thinking that's happening inside of their head. I don't mean magical, like, fantastic. or strange. I mean, like, there's a huge process that's going on in their brains that if we open up the space to allow them to communicate, like, you don't know where that question is going to lead. And the times where we can slow down enough to not, again, a sort of judgment or a closed statement, not that's like, good job, buddy, okay, we're going over here and like slow down enough to open up the conversation. Like, they, fill it with these like unbelievable insights and and ways that we get a window into their how their mind is operating. So yes and I'm just going to be super honest. A lot of people either don't want to slow down or will not slow down. Where I see the opportunity is that just have an

open ended statement or question. Oh, what can you tell me about that? Or like what was your choice of color here? That's what my friend Carrie who runs a preschool. She said that's what that's what what she asks. What were you trying to do with this color here? Tell me about that, right? All of a sudden, we're all art critics, not critics. We're all art historians wanting to know about the process of how they came to that decision. Yeah. And the fact is it is very, very hard to find the time for a lot of those interactions. And especially if you're a working parent, you literally are getting your child for dinner, homework, and bedtime. Three of the hardest times of day, if you're a teenager, especially. Like, that's when many of us are.

parenting our kids. Sometimes it's just the language. If you have those phrases ready on the go, it's not that you're taking any more time. You're probably sitting in the car, driving your kid home anyway. And so that time will be spent either in silence or that time is going to be spent cooking dinner together and they're showing you the thing and you're having a conversation. It's filling the dead space. And what you're doing is that you're actually building a, more rich and connected emotional bond with the child. And so all of the transitions and hard stuff will be easier because you're doing that. I do think it's about having the phrases ready.

Totally. And what this made me think of when you talk about that and this is people, people who cook with their children have a lot to say about it. Oh, big time. If you can start early and get them into that, it is so, you learn so many fascinating things about your children when you cook with them. Jonathan, this has been a really special conversation to get to have with you and with Dr. Becky. You and I met when our kids were three. That's true. If people want to give us a little glimpse

into their best lines that they use with their child to facilitate a deeper conversation. Or that your parents have used with you. You don't have to be a parent to go here. Or that you would want to use with even a kid or a friend because we saw that it's not just parenting. And we would love to hear what you thought of Dr. Becky. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's My Ambiolyx Breakdown. She's going to break it down for you.

She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fiction. And now she's going to break down.