Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Drake Bell Overcomes Abuse, Finds His Voice & Beauty in the Pain: "I Went to Rehab Right Before the Documentary"

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

What happens when a child is accused of seducing an adult? When people you thought were your friends take the side of your abuser?   Rehab Helped Drake Bell Find the Strength to Share His Story of Abuse   From his traumatic past as a child actor to his battle with the stigma of being a "former child star", Drake Bell (singer-songwriter, actor, former Nickelodeon star) opens up like never before about what it was really like coping with the abuse he endured for YEARS before the QUIET ON SET documentary aired, and his feelings on the public's reaction to the doc.   He shares how opening up to the public has been both painful and healing, how his rehab journey was the turning point that led him to finally share his story, and what it was like reading letters of support for his abuser from people he thought were his friends for the first time when the documentary aired.   Drake Bell also discusses: - How his boundaries being constantly violated by his abuser led to him having difficulty setting boundaries with others later in adulthood - Why he never wanted to be a role model for kids - His take on the questionability of the kids' tv content detailed in the QUIET ON SET doc - Emotional toll the stigma of the "Former Child Star" has had on him - Impact of growing up with divorced parents & how it's shaped the way he co-parents with the mother of his son - Leaving Hollywood Behind?: Drake shares his deep desire to leave Hollywood and the freedom he’s found through music, which he calls his therapy - His unexpected rise to fame in Mexico   PLUS....Drake professes his love for Jeopardy—including an exclusive chat with Mayim Bialik about her hosting duties!   We're kicking off an awesome new year of episodes with a HUGE episode you won't want to miss - TUNE IN to MBB NOW to start 2025 off right!    Drake Bell's latest album, Non-Stop Flight: https://open.spotify.com/album/0t1FNOj7bYFbcO7813LXNe?si=6KxH48WDQVmKCMx-Vaz4dA   BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

But I will never forget seeing you and wondering what it was like to sit in that fucking chair. First day, I went home and I was like, what did I just do? This whole stigma of like, what are people going to think? What are people going to say? I didn't know about these letters of support. But when they unsealed them for this documentary, I got slapped with 41 letters from people I thought were my friends throughout my career and for years after. And I had been sober for like seven years.

just kind of started spiraling out of control, and I finally hit rock bottom and went to rehab. Walking on the street, it's usually like, oh my gosh, can I get a selfie? Cool, thanks. No way. See ya. Now it's like people coming up and be like, can I just talk to you for a couple minutes? I'm I'm Ian Bielic. I'm Jonathan Cohen. Welcome to our breakdown. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. You woke up today and your hair is no longer curly. I don't know what happened. I just didn't shower. We hope everyone had a great holiday. We're very thankful that you are here with us. If you're new here, welcome. And if you've been here a while, thanks again for listening.

This year, we are seeking to cover topics that are most important to you with big guests, with amazing experts. Our team here is working very hard to bring you information that can help you better understand yourself and ultimately how to live a better life. If you haven't already subscribed, we're going to ask you right now to click the subscribe button wherever you're listening, wherever you're watching. It's free. and it really does help us bring you more of the episodes you love.

We're starting off the year with a particularly powerful episode. It's a topic that has impacted so many people. It was brought into the public awareness last year with a shocking documentary that shook the industry and really rippled out over the whole world. And what we'd like to focus on is what's it like to think you know someone, especially if they're a public person. You know, you think you know what they're like

or what they're going through. Maybe you have judgment about them or the way they live their life. Maybe you envy parts of their life. But then you find out that you actually didn't know this person at all. You didn't know what their human experience really was. Maybe they've gone through something that you can't imagine. Maybe they feel trapped.

Maybe they feel alone. Maybe they've been tormented, abused, thinking that there's no way out of their pain. Many of us are under tremendous pressure. And that can keep us suffering or hiding or living in a world of shame. If you're the person hiding, we're here to tell you there's hope. There is a way out. Your life can get better and you're not alone.

Our guest today had an enviable life and an enviable childhood to the outside world. However, he was going through horrific things that he didn't even know that he should share or seek help for. He didn't know for a long time who he could turn to. He didn't even know how to try and escape from it. And he's ended up bringing hope to millions of people. A lot of people might know this person from watching him on TV. Others may know him from his prolific music career. And many of him may have first learned about him from the bombshell documentary Quiet on Set. We're going to talk today to Drake Bell. We're going to talk about why he chose to break his silence,

about the predatory abuse and trauma that he experienced for years while working on one of the most popular TV shows at the time, Drake and Josh. He's going to discuss what led him to film Quiet on set, including the reservations he had even while filming it, which he ended up coming to terms with. We're also going to talk about what breaking the silence has done for him, for his career and ultimately for his healing journey. He also shares really powerfully the emotional breakdown that he had

and the recovery that he went through a whole month of treatment, getting himself to a place where he could have the strength to get in that chair on that documentary set and share the way he did a really powerful interview. And you may have heard other interviews with Drake or other podcasts he's been on. I have to say we really chose to, to lean into a lot of the joy that Drake experiences as a musician, as a performer, as an actor,

how some of those coping mechanisms of the love of our industry in many ways buoyed him through unimaginable tragedy that he was experiencing. Let's get into it with Drake Bell. Drake Bell, welcome to the breakdown. Break it down. This feels like a good place to talk a little bit about, sort of what's expected of a child actor, right? And it's in some ways not very different from what's expected of an adult actor,

but children are easier to manipulate and get to do what you want. Yeah, of course. Part of, I'll speak about us. Part of our job is to be obedient, right? To, like, do what is, you know, required and not complain, right? So, like, those are kind of some of the things. But I wonder if you can talk a lot. little bit about sort of what you think about, especially now that you're an adult,

and especially now that you're a dad, right? What does it feel like to look back and see, gosh, like, so much was expected, right, of us, even though we love it, even though it's enjoyable. Can you talk a little bit about what you remember of expectations about you? Well, I think the hardest part about it is you're expected to, like, there's no expectation of, being able to react like a kid or be able to, like, you have, they're expecting from you

what they're expecting from all of these adult actors that have been doing it forever, and this is a job to them, and this is, you know, and it's hard to get that, like, oh, this is my job. You're kind of more like, oh, this is my play. Like, I get to go have fun, and, oh, shoot, like, there's a lot of money writing on this,

and there's, people are going to get upset, and you're in an adult world, So yeah, so I think the expectations... And I think the hard part, too, is you get a lot of kids in the business who... It's like... It's their first job. You know, I had sort of a luxury move... Because when I started working on Amanda Show, Drake and Josh, started making...

You know, I started working when I was five years old. So I'd been on a ton of movie sets where it's like, we're losing. in the light or we're down, you know, the, we got to move on. Like the, this is, you know, and so there's a lot of stress and producers getting upset or actors getting mad and storming on. Like, I've had, I've run the gambit of being on, like, stressful situations, you know, in stressful situations on set.

Whereas I think like a lot of people that came from like the same background as me on like Nickelodeon or working on television shows when they're kids is, a lot of them, it's their parents' first time on a set. It's the kids' first time on a job. And the adults around aren't taking that into consideration of, like, dude, you're not working with some actor who's had a director yell at them before. Like, you're not working with some actor who's gotten in an argument with the producer

over a decision that they want to, like, you know, the director wants it this way, but the actors disagreeing, and they get into it. it and you're standing there watching two people just like scream at each other. But that really becomes in Hollywood, you're just like, they're just negotiating. Like, it'll be over in a second and one of them will, they'll, there's, there's, there's, oh, we're almost to the compromise, and there we go. Can we shoot now? Let's go. You know, you kind of are like, you get used to, you know, not that they happen all the time, but you're used to high stress situations because, you know, you're shooting out in the snow,

but it's supposed to be summertime, you know, and it's like, oh, it's snowing. We got to wait for it to stop. There's just so many situations where you have experience. But I think that there's so many kids who it's like, it's their first job. And if that's not taken into consideration, it's like, they just had an adult yell at them. Like, they don't know that that's like, you know, and maybe they didn't come in for,

maybe they were playing video games or hanging out with their friends last night. Being a kid. And being a kid. And they didn't cut, like, the script becomes homework, you know? And it's like, okay, so they came in and they don't have all their lines memorized. The kids are irresponsible. Yeah. My son just texted me that he slept through his exam.

Yeah. I mean, there you go. And so you have, but then you have these adults who are like, what are you talking about? Like, now you have to go, now we have to wait for you to learn your lines. Like, why don't you come prepared? Like, what, no, no, no, no. And the kids like, what? Like, that was home.

You know, and then there's like this. Well, so I'm curious. what was that like to be a veteran? Because I didn't start acting until I was 11. I was that kid you're describing. Like, I was that kid who had to negotiate fights in my home, but not on sets, right? I hadn't been in an adult work environment. Like, I was that kid who, when I started Blossom, I was 14.

Joey Lawrence had been acting since he was probably before five. Jenna Von Oye also started when she was super young. Like, I was the green one. I would, like, I had just been beaches, but I had just started acting. You know, I had very, my, like, I was that kid. And I can't say that it, it felt, um, necessarily difficult because it's kind of like a fish doesn't know it's swimming in water. Right. You know what I mean? Like, it was just like, this is all what's happening. But I wonder for you, like, when you think about little Drake, right? Like, what was

that learning curve like? Do you remember any of it? Um, you know, I think also, for me, me, like, there, I was always so fascinated with, like, vintage Hollywood, like the lights, the camera, being on set, the smell of, you know, you walk onto a set, you smell the sawdust, and you're like, oh, I'm home. You're like stepping over cables. You're like, oh, this is, this is home, you know? And my parents grew up, I grew up with my parents divorced. They did not get along, bouncing between house and house and unfortunately my parents were of the era

this is kind of a blessing in disguise because now with my wife and my son we're separated and we share him but I mean I hate to say that I'm glad that I was brought up this way because it kind of affects how I am

how the relationship is with my son's mom is my you know I go to my dad's and my dad would be like oh, your mom this, your mom that, your mom this, your mom that. I go to my mom's, your dad, this, your dad this. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm half him, I'm half you. So I'm, like, so you're basically saying that this person sucks, this person sucks. So I suck.

Like, there's this whole, like, thing where when I got onto set, and it's great because now with my son, I'm always, I'm like, you'll never hear a bad word come out of my mouth about your mom ever, ever. Like, even if I'm, even if we have problems, like, your mom's the best cool. Like, she's the best, you know. So I think there was this bit of like escape when I got on to set, you know? And I always was an old soul, so I never felt like I couldn't carry myself in conversations with adults. And I think later in life with things that I had experienced and had to go through was sort of, that's, that I think is something that people tap into and take advantage of. What do you mean?

Like the ability to like, you know, there's obviously kids who are on set that aren't going to be talking about oh you know Jerry Lewis you know why we have monitors because Jerry Lewis invented the monitor and you know I oh man oh that Dick Van Dyke episode and this is and you like the history of Hollywood and oh when oh if you heard the story when when this happened on the set of Chinatown and when Bob Evans

so you're able to like and those kind of conversations happen all the time on set where you're talking about like oh I heard this great story from the sound guy when he was working with Jack Nicholson, like, I'm right in on those conversations. This is a really interesting point. My Ambialx breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful.

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Make sure to mention My Ambiotics Breakdown to help support the show. This is something I've never heard you talk about, and I've never talked about it, but I relate very strongly, that, if you are, for whatever reason, and I was called an old soul, which I've been told by therapist means like, you just have ancestral trauma and it's coming out. But if you are able to navigate with adults, it does give many adults a feeling that they're already closer to you. Totally. Because you're already kind of like an adult. Yep. Like we can talk about things that I'm interested in, says the adult.

So I kind of have them already. Yeah. I've never thought about that. Yeah, I can, I can also say things that you don't say in front of a 12-year-old kid. And it makes the kid feel empowered, right? Yeah, you know, you're like, oh, well, like, I just did a scene with this kid and he just said, you know, F this and F that, like, you know, you're working on, you know, some movie where the kids, like, in situations that. and then when you're offset, you're like, oh, well, I can purse in front of them.

I can tell this dirty joke. I can tell this, you know, because it's like they're not really. So there's the ones who I think, and it's a bummer because some of it's totally, I think, innocent. Like there's no malice in it. It's just you're, you know, some of the adults are in a world where they're sitting at lunch and they're like, oh, let me tell you this funny story about how this person was doing this drug on set and then this happened.

And then this thing happened. They were crazy. And you're like, oh, wait, this kid probably shouldn't hear this story. But it's also, like, they're not doing it out of like, oh, hey. And then I think there's the people who are like, obviously the predators in Hollywood who are like, oh, you know, I can just, you know, he can come to this party and his parents will feel okay because, hey, he's just an old soul. He's just getting along with the older people.

Like, you know, go ahead and drop them off. And then those are the kind of people who, you know, basically see that and take advantage of it. It's so interesting to think about the things that as child actors were encouraged to be. Totally. We're encouraged to be sophisticated. And we're encouraged to be wise beyond our years. And we're encouraged to, you know, adapt and adopt all of these adult things. Yeah.

Such as being cool with people cursing or, okay, oh, they're drinking, but like, oh, it's work time, but I shouldn't say anything. Right? It starts like opening doors to permissiveness. Or also what I saw all the time too is like you're at a house party and something. And it's like, oh, whatever. They're 16, 17. But like it's almost like the cool mom. Like, well, you're not at a bar.

You're like at the house. Like, sure, you can have some cocktails. And like now you're there's like all this underage drinking happening. But it's just there's nobody batting and not like nobody's like, whoa, hey. No, no, no, no. No, it's like. you're nominated for a golden globe and you're 17. Like, yeah, I'm drinking.

It's almost like being mature is a gateway drug. Totally. Right? That's a good way of putting it, yeah. Well, there's no guardrails. Yeah. Well, and you're encouraged to be those things. There's no downside to being mature, right?

There's something, too, where, you know, if you get, which I'm sure you experienced a lot, but, like, when you get to a certain point, and, you know, I mean, just think about what it's like to just roam through the halls of a high school, but imagine if that's on a global scale. Now you're like 15, 16, and you're opening up some magazine. And I think like from like a male point of view is like, heart young teen, heart throb, what kind of girl are you looking for?

What is it? And then from like a female point of view, it's just all like, oh, look what she's wearing. Oh, she's gained some weight. Oh, look at her. She's eating a, it's like a donut stuffed in your face. You're like, dude, I was just with my friends eating donuts. Like, now it's on the cover of some magazine in like some negative light. Like, but you're, but these publications have no problem either.

Just like following these kids around and then objectifying them. in ways where it's like, even if you think you're glorifying them, you know, it's like, well, now I have to, now that's the standard I have to keep up with. Now I have to,

now if I even go a little bit to this way, are they going to say that I'm no longer the it girl? Am I no longer the, you know, and that takes a toll too. And I think that that's not something that they prepare. I wasn't prepared for two things. I wasn't prepared for the whole like,

you know, because I mean, I never really, I was acting all the time. And so I never really had like the high school experience. I did for like four months. And then I realized that you have to do homework. You have to do like actual school work. I was like, I want to go to high school.

I want to experience it. And then they like started putting like papers on my desk. And I was like, I'm sorry, I have my agents. You know, they're like, no cell phones. I'm like, oh, no, you don't understand. This is a big deal. I really have to take this. So I got out of that.

but I wasn't prepared for also because I was working on a network that was geared towards children and young people was like oh well now you have to be a good example like you have to be a good example and I'm like I'm like dude you guys are the ones that are serve an open bar

at the at the rap party and not caring if the cat like who's and then but oh but I have to go out and like be a good role model and I'm like I don't know how be a good role. I want to get into trouble. I'm a kid. Like, I'm going to make mistakes. I'm going to do stupid things. And then it's

all, oh, another child actor does this, this and this. And it's just like, you know, there's a lot, you know, it's a lot of that. And I think a lot of like trying to find your own and being up, like, I have to be a good role model. I have to

navigate myself through this adult world, like, and expected to not make any mistakes. And then I think, you know, there's this, like, stigma of, like, being a child that, like, you're, you will always be child actor. Like, no matter how many movies you make as an adult, no matter how many shows you host, no matter who you, former child star.

Right. Drake Bell, now hosting, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I did, 90% of my career was post 18. Like, it's just, but, so there's, like, all these things and expectations that are, that are thwarted on you and you're just like, I always think that, you know, if you're going to get a kid

into a position where they might become a success, you know, Malcolm in the middle, like they're the star of the show. Like, they need to be sat down and be like, okay,

so here's all the articles on this young actor, here's all the articles on this young actress, here's all this. Just go through those. Are you prepared to have that done to you?

If so, cool. If not, we're going to look for someone else. And there wasn't the same awareness, obviously, about the trajectory of that experience when you both started. It was like a totally different world. That was the other thing. No social media.

I was going to say a lot of this stuff happened in private, as it were, and there wasn't the same sort of like following. But I also know, and this was something that was, you know, an experience I had differently because you were on a network that was essentially like a very well-run machine for churning out content. And there was a specific formula that was followed, and there was a publicity form. It was a much more protected world from the outside world of the industry in many ways. I had to walk among, you know, like the Married with Children cast and like, you know, like all these people who were like, you know, having a whole different kind of success than our little sitcom, you know, that was just kind of starting out. But the thing that was fascinating about the Nickelodeon world is it sort of created,

blockbuster after blockbuster without fail. And Dan was, he was a master of, of creating this formula that just like clicked with people, it clicked with kids, you know? I wanted to ask a little bit more about music because you've used your music as a very specific vehicle, meaning you've chosen to like dive right into the middle of your life with this phase of your career. And I really like your music. And I like the sound. And I like, I love the videos. And I know that they're not all the same. But the videos that I was watching, you're getting to use your acting even as you're singing. And I know that being a performer, you know, of the musical variety, you have to be, you know, presentational.

But I really love, I just, I love the, the variety of artistic way that you're kind of going about this phase of your career. But, you know, in particular, like, going away. It's like a very explicit song. And I don't mean to, like, read into things. But the lyrics are, that you're done with this fucking city, you know, and that you really want to be someone else, somewhere else. Why did you choose to be so explicit with your music

and your lyrics as it relates to what's going on in your life? Well, with this album, like I said, I didn't sit down and say, okay, I'm going to write this album. I had just gotten to my wits end with a lot of things that were happening in my life. And I just, I don't write journals. I don't write in a diary. I write lyrics, you know, and that's like when I feel like I need to just scream or get something out,

I go down to the piano and I just bang it out. And the first song that I wrote for the album was I kind of relate. And I was going through such, I was just, it was so dark. And I was going through like just so many personal situations that would just absolutely, I mean, you hear about these things happening to people and it just destroys them. Well, I had like three or four of them all happening at the same time, like all at the same time. And I was just like, how am I going to get through this? Like, how am I going to get through this?

And so I just like went down and I started just like, you know, okay, there's other people that are, you know, I'm not in this alone. Like other people, so it's like, okay, well, I, you know, I kind of relayed. I found beauty in my pain and I, you know, I can express it through music. And, you know, I'm running away from all the abuse and all the shame and all of this. And I was just like, okay, this is dark. But with like, I always put like dark lyrics with like happier sounding music. I like love that juxtaposition. And so I kind of relate.

I finish that. And I've always loved concept albums, you know, like pet sounds or, I mean, Sergeant Pepper is technically a concept album. There's not really a through line with that. But, like, for example, Pet Sounds is all about teenage love. Then, you know, this young teenager feeling like he needs to get out on his own and experience the world. And then later on in the album, going back to, like, his first love and saying, like, you know, oh, where did your long hair go? Where is the girl I used to know?

Where is the... So it's kind of this whole... There's one through, like, thought throughout the whole album, you know? And so I kind of thought, oh, we should make this kind of concept album that really takes you through like three acts of my life, you know, where like the escape, the wanting to get out, the pressure being too much. Then, you know, looking and searching for love and then finding love or maybe remembering a past love. And then the joy and triumph and hopefulness of the future trying to get through all of this darkness. and then so it kind of really, and then I was like,

oh, it could be like on an airplane and we could take you through this musical journey through the skies and guide you through. You hear the flight attendants and the captain, and there's turbulence, and then the hard songs come on.

And then, you know, we dim the cabin lights and bring you blankets and pillows and then all these like softer singer-songwriter songs come on. And then as we're coming in for the landing is like the hopeful and joyous, like, you know,

positivity for the future. And so I started constructing that whole thing and it became really the most, like introspective autobiographical record, because it took me three and a half years to make the record, you go through literally like lyrics like, I'm moving my wife and son out to the islands to basically get away. Like I'm going to go, we're going to move out into some, you know, middle of Hawaii somewhere and just live a nomadic life and be out of this Hollywood stuff, all the way to a song where it starts with like, I messed up my life, I lost my son and my wife. So you literally

have this whole going from get out of here, take my family, this and that, to, oh, now he's lost his family. Like he succumbed to, you know, the pressure or whatever it was. And then, you know, getting through that, finding love, having a good relationship with your family, having a good relationship with your kids, having, and then having this hopeful thoughts for the future. and so yeah, so it runs the whole gambit of like... I can't help but wonder, you know, when you think about

some of these individual songs, right, and then the arc of this album, what would have happened to Drake Bell if you couldn't write this album? Oh, I mean, honestly, it's therapy. It's... I think that's why it took also so long to put out because it just became, you know,

I'd write a song and I go, oh, no, this has to go on. Like, this is... telling the story. Like, if this is what we're really doing, like, this has to go on the record. This has to go on the record. And I was traveling so much, so I'd be recording in different studios

and sending tracks to this place and that place and doing vocals here in this country and doing guitars and stuff and sending stuff. Getting it all, it was like a huge puzzle. But it really, like, you know, and I don't know, there's also something to listening to the album that's therapeutic as well. Like, just sitting back and putting the headphones on

And because it's so many songs, very often I'm listening to the record and I forget, like, oh, I forgot about this song. Oh, this song's the one that's next. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Listen to that lyric. And then you always write songs and intend for them to have whatever meaning you're trying to write at that moment. But then you always go back and you're like, whoa, that lyric can mean something totally different. and whoa, that can be interpreted in a completely different way.

And then you actually take things from things that you've written, like hearing it for the first time or taking it a different way. And so it's super therapeutic. I wonder if you can help us with some of the timeline. Yeah. Because many of us, you know, kind of got to rethinking about you in a new way when Quiet on set came out. Yeah.

But you obviously had been going through all of the things that the documentary talked about for years. Yeah. And I'm wondering if you can fill us in on when sort of the writing began and in what stage of your recovery, as it were, from all of the things that had happened to you. Where did it fit in therapeutically? Like, what is the timeline?

Because, like I said, so many of us, when did the documentary come out? It was April of this year. It came out, right. March, March. Right. So it came out in, but, this had been going on.

And, yeah, without naming names, like some of us had been hearing about echoes of it before and choosing not to comment about it. But give us a little bit of the timeline. They had been approaching me for quite a while. And there was another documentary that came out a while ago that was dealing with the same subject matter, and they reached out to me and asked me to be a part of it.

And I was... just not in a place where I wanted to talk about this. I was busy working. I just, it was just like, no, no thanks. And they sent me back, like, the most tardy email. Just like, it's people like you, why Hollywood won't get fixed. And I'm like, people like me. What are you talking about?

I'm like, go up to the people who did it. Like, don't send me a message. Well, you think this is a little triggering this email? Like, so I started, I was like, okay, they're obviously just for a cash grab or they don't care about, you know, victims. They're just, like, how could you literally send me, like, a scathing email because I don't want to be a part of your

little movie, like, whatever. So, I was very on guard. So when the producers from Quiet on set reached out, I was, like, absolutely not. Absolutely not. They, I forget how they got my phone number, but I think somebody reached out to me. It was like, someone's trying to get a

hold of you, so I okayed. It wasn't like they, got my number and texted me. I think I okayed it. Like someone was like, oh, someone's trying to get a hold of you, whatever. So they started texting me, and we were like kind of talking over text, and I was just like, I'm not interested.

Like, this is not something I would ever want to be a part of. Why? Can you tell us why? Just because there's like this whole stigma of like, you know, what are people going to think? What are people going to say? How am I going to be viewed? I think especially, I mean, I don't want to say especially,

but it's just only talking from my experience. but, you know, as a guy, too, it's like, I don't want to, like, there's like so many, you know, and which eventually I was sort of correct because I didn't know about these letters of support. I mean, knew they existed, but I was expecting, like, you know, close friends, family, of course, whatever. But when they unsealed them for this documentary, I got slapped with 41 letters from people I thought were my friends throughout my career and, like, for years after. that I worked with that where my friend and I'm reading these letters that are like

and these are people going out of their way to out of their way to say like oh my gosh it's Drake's fault he tempted this man Drake's an overtly blah blah blah he's this and that and I'm like dude I was 14 I'm like I don't even know what this is

like I just hanging out like what I was saying like oh you go to these parties you're just like hanging out you don't think like your mind's not even there I hadn't like my first girlfriend at this time. You know what I mean? Like, I wasn't some, like, teen heartthrob actor, like,

making my way through Hollywood with all these chicks. Like, I was so, like, in that part of the world, I was like, I'm still, like, trying to get to first base. Like, you know what I mean? Like, and, and, and the things that these letters say are just like, like, as if I was just some, like, heathen, like, jumping on the laps and grabbing and doing that. I was just like, this is unreal. This is unreal.

I also just want to make... Deflecting. Well, yeah, and I just want to make space for the fact that you should not have to defend any behavior that you had. Meaning, like, it was putting you in this position to have to defend your behavior when you were a vulnerable child. Yeah. And I think, like, that's...

I think that's what so many of us found so disturbing was the accusation that a child could seduce an adult. Exactly. But I do think it's really, it does get underlined because you are male. Yeah. And we are not used to hearing these things and it brings up different levels of discomfort. Because it should be incredibly uncomfortable no matter what. Yeah.

But it does. It brings up different levels of this. So you didn't want to participate. Not at all. So what changed? My son's mom was kind of getting over L.A. She was like, done. She's like, you know, it was like pandemic had hit.

So she went to Florida with my son And I stayed back and was going to like Pack up and all this stuff. And I started to kind of spiral. And I was in, you know, I was home alone. And I started to just kind of just, you know, I think maybe being asked to do the documentary and knowing that something was going to come out

and, you know, just I lost it. And I had been sober for like seven years, like hadn't drank and nothing. And I, you know, go to what works. And I just kind of started spiraling out of control. Not, you know, not getting crazy or anything. Just too much was going on in my head. And I was just like, how am I going to get through this?

You know? So I finally hit rock bottom. and went to rehab. And I went to this great place in Nashville. And for the first time, I was kicking and screaming and knew I knew I should go, but I didn't want to go. And then I was like, what am I doing? Then I get on the plane. And I'm like, oh, my God.

Like, what is going? You know. So finally I got there. And it was like this beautiful just trees everywhere. And it was just, you know, it's Nashville. It's like, I'm from L.A. Like, you know, it's just this huge. this huge fields and grass.

And I finally took a deep breath. I, like, got out and I walked, I got my, it was so funny. I was getting my blood drawn in this really sweet nurse in there, you know. They take your picture. And they printed it out for my little badge tag. And I look at the badge tag and I go, and she's like drawing my blood. And I go, oh, my God, is that what I look like? Wow.

Why do I look like that? And she goes, honey, because you're in rehab. I was like, oh my God. What did you see? I looked. I was like just, I looked like a mess. I mean, I didn't look like a mess. I mean, I wasn't really like, I didn't really go to rehab because I was like, oh, I can't stop doing drugs or alcohol or something like that.

It was really like, if I don't go somewhere, like, I mean, not that I'm going to hurt myself or anything. I just, I was, I didn't know. I didn't know what the heck. Like, I was like, I'm never going to work again or I'm going to destroy all of my relationships. chips. Like, I'm just, I don't know what the outcome's going to be, you know. It might occur to me to hurt myself in that situation. I just want to give you the leeway to be like, I mean, it's with what was going on in your head, that's unmanageable. No clue. Unmanageable. That's basically great word for it. It was just unmanageable. So I went and that's what I saw when

I looked at my badge. I was just like, oh yeah, oh yeah. But she was so, I'm like, why do I look like it? Because you're in rehab. That's why you look like that. It's okay. You're going to get better. But so I spent a month there. And it was the first time that I, I've done a lot of one-on-one therapy and things, but it was the first time that I've been in group settings where people are telling stories and telling their life, and you're just like, whoa, okay, not the only one. Like, all right, that story.

Okay, well, I'll totally share my story because that story I just heard is, whoa. Like, all right, like, I thought I had it bad. Like, okay, I'll share, you know, and then you're getting it off your chest. You're getting it off your chest. There's no internet. There's no phones.

There's no access to the outside world. You're literally on lockdown. from 8 a.m. you go to class and you're in class, different classes and therapies sessions and all this stuff all the way up until 8, 9 o'clock at night when you hit your bed and the lights are out and you just do it all over again every single day. And so I wasn't on Twitter reading crap and reading things about me that I, that are devastating. It is just, I was completely removed. And so when I came out of that, I was like, oh, this is great, you know. And so I had now at this point, talked a lot about what I'd gone through in my past and in a setting that wasn't just one-on-one

with my therapist and, you know, and getting a lot of support and having people around me that just wanted me to see me get better. No ulterior motives of, you know, nobody had their phones. Nobody's trying to take selfies with you. Nobody could call home and be like, hey, you know, who's on, you know, who's in my cabin. Like, we all just were on this level, you know, it's this whole level field and everyone was, it was this camaraderie and just given add-a-boys and seeing people grow and get better and seeing people lose their shit and, you know, and not, and reacting in a way that's like more loving and understanding. And, you know, there's, I mean, because obviously there's people dealing with all different

sorts of things. So, you know, you'll see one of the nicest guys in your cabin all of a sudden blow up and you're just like, you know, in a normal setting, you're like, okay, that guy needs to leave. I don't, we can't be around it. But in this, in this setting, it's more of, you know, we all need to gather around this guy right now. Like, he's hurting. Like, we need to help him and bring him, you know, get him back down to earth. And so we, it was just like all done from a different angle than what would happen in like the real world, you know. And so when they reached out to me again, I was like, you know, if I'm going to, and I think a lot of, of people, what was happening with everyone was after someone shared some wild story that you

couldn't even imagine, you know, and afterwards, people would all go up and support each other. Like, hey, man, thank you for sharing. Like, that was, that just like, you know, I had this thing, like, I've been wanting to talk about my relationship with my dad and, you know, and, you know, you lost your dad. And I'm like, I, like, my dad's still here. I need to mend that because I, like, even though I have this with my dad, like, you don't have an opportunity to even fix stuff with your dad because he's gone, or whatever it is. Like, it all was like supportive. And people coming up to me and saying the same thing, you know, like, oh,

that story really helped me. Like, oh, my gosh, you know, you've had such, like, I love when you share because it's like I, I share such similar situations in my life. Did it also help hearing from other men who had been victimized? Totally. Totally. Totally. And that's the thing. I mean, I would sit there and hear these stories that were like, you couldn't even imagine that these things happen in real life. Like, you're like, that, you can't even put that in a movie. Like, that's, that's too harsh to even, like, that would have to only be in a book. But you understand that when a lot of people heard your story, many of us felt that way. Yeah. How could this happen? Yeah. How could this happen to a person? So the fact that, like,

a group setting allowed that opening. I think, you know, the joke I always make is like, it's good to have friends who are more fucked up than you. Yeah. Because you can always, like, feel like, oh, but at least. Totally. But also, it's about perspective, meaning some people would hear your story and say,

even though it may not have the more, the most horrific details like this other story. Right. The context in which what happened to you happened to you might for some other people be like, oh my God. Exactly. How do you recover from that, right? That's that interchange of information.

that happens in therapy and especially in a group. Yeah, and I think that that had a lot of impact on me deciding to actually do the documentary because I was like, okay, hmm, if I'm ever going to tell my story, what is it going to be on a podcast? Is it going to be like in an interview

that some people read and newsweek? Like, you know, if it's going to be, if I'm going to get my story out, then maybe it should be on something that, obviously we did not know, with the impact and this thing was going to be, you know, the success that it was going to have. It's a weird word. I know.

I feel weird about using that too. Weird word to use. But it's impact. Impact. That's a better word. What kind of impact that it would have. Well, there were really two components also. And I wonder if you knew that when you went into the documentary.

There were two components. There was kind of like the climate onset. Yep. Component. And, you know, I have, I'm sort of a documentary aficionado. It's like sort of my jam. And what I felt about quite on set was that it was really stretched out. Yeah.

Like it kind of got like like taffied out, right? Like it felt a little bit like that taffey machine. And like I feel like we could have communicated the same things in a shorter. But not, you know, it's not for me to say. But there was kind of a whole part of the documentary. And then there was you. Yeah. And, you know, I'm amazed our paths have not physically crossed.

You know, like, I knew a lot of people that you knew. And, you know, anyway. But I will never forget the moment in that documentary when you sat down in that chair. First of all, you're very handsome. And you have beautiful hair. And, you know, you have this kind of like this way. You are. You're very kind of a very like rat pack.

You know, you kind of like you glide into that set. And you have a presence about you. but I will never forget seeing you and wondering what it was like to sit in that fucking chair. Brutal. Brutal. It was so weird. And that's why I really wanted to talk to you.

Because it was the first time that I never said anything publicly. And there's a camera in my face. I mean, it was, it was brutal. And I didn't know how in depth I was going to get. I mean, it was like pulling teeth to even get me to be a part of it. And then it was shot in two days. Wow. And the first day I went home.

and I was like, what did I just do? What did I just do? I called the producers. I was like, I'm sorry, I don't want to be part of this anymore. I'm losing my mind. Like, I'm, you know, I, I, what did they say? They were, they were, it's obvious, it goes back to that. Yeah.

Which is kind of a bummer because it does go back to that sort of like. They have a story to tell. They have a story to tell. They have a job to do. They've got money on the line. They've got this whole thing. And so, but they did work. it out well where it wasn't, you know, when I, they, they were like, well, just look, come down,

we'll just go upstairs and we'll just talk until you either feel comfortable or you decide not to do it, but would you mind just coming down and like us discussing with you and talking it through with you? What does that feel like in your body when you don't want to go back and you do? And I'm not asking to disparage the producers or anything like that. Yeah. I'm curious with what you know about your process of what it feels like to be torn between things, what did that feel like in your body? I mean, it's a completely physical reaction. You have, there's, it's really a, it's like fighter, fight, fight or fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, and you're going,

it's like just going through it like brrr because there's so much going on in your mind where you're thinking, you're used to, oh man, I just got this phone call that really upset me or something happened in my life and I'm really, really upset. But I have a scene that I have to shoot in 10 minutes that I have to be laughing and having a great time. That's called compartmentalization. Yeah. So you're just like, shh-j-j-j-j-and then you're like, gets a set and you're like,

all right, let's do it, you know? And you're just like in your head. So I'm so used to. to that. Right. So there was that as well as like, but wait, this is like your story. This is your life. This is what's happened to you.

Like, you're telling something that you have held inside of you forever. And only people close to you know about it. And 41 other people who wrote letters of support. And an entire courtroom full of people. But the, yeah, it's this whole physical like tug of war that you're, going, okay, do I just suck it up and, like, get through it because, you know,

the cameras and lights are already set up, the crew's already here. And then you're like, wait a minute. Bro, you're not just acting. Like, this is your story. Like, you need to really think about and figure out, like, is this something you want to do? Is this, you're not just getting through the day. You know, this is not just, you know. Did you know the impact it would have in terms of,

I don't mean the, I really would love to kind of, like, set aside all the, like, oh my God, and all the gossip. stuff and all the stupid stuff. I want to set that aside. What you did was you gave voice to an experience that people have all over the world all the time. Yeah. And not just famous people. Totally. And not just celebrity people. You, you became inadvertently the face of like bravery around owning your own story. Right. Did you have. Any idea that that would happen?

No, no idea. And I think that's one of the really cool things about being on tour and traveling so much is I'm constantly in the airport and people are walking up to me. And instead of just like, hey, can I grab a selfie? It's like, hey, can I share my story with you? And, you know, this happened to me and I've never spoke about it. But when I saw you sit down and you were telling your story, like, you know, I opened up to my husband and, and now we're, we've, you know, in our, in our state,

we're, we're drafted, they're now drafting legislation and we were a huge catalyst for that. And we're working on this because in schools, you know, you can still get a job if you're this. And so I've had so many situations like that. We're just like walking on the street, it's usually like, oh my gosh, can I get a selfie? Cool. Thank. No way. See you. Now it's like people coming up and be like, do you mind if I, can I just talk to you for a couple minutes? And then it turns into like a 25 minute conversation of people sharing their stories and talking about how, you know, nobody in my family ever knew about this. And I'm finally able to talk about it. And so that's,

that's something I definitely didn't expect at all. No kidding. Yeah. Does it feel like too much sometimes? Sometimes. Sometimes. But, but I mean, that, it is always going to be an emotional roller coaster of like, is, can you see the dog or does it just look weird that I'm doing something with my hands under here? I'm playing with the dog. So if it just looks like he's like,

what is he doing under that table? It's a dog. So it's that emotional roller coaster of like, you know, and then also, you know, going on podcasts and no offense on this, but like it's like talking about it again and then talking about it. But when you have,

have reactions like that, it's like, you know, there's there's good that comes out of it. It's like, you know, it's like the lyric when I'm like, you know, I kind of relate. I found beauty, beauty in my pain. It's like, okay, even though you've been through these painful situations, like there is a beauty that you can find on the other side of it. Well, I mean, we're so appreciative that, that you, you know, we're open to talking, but we also, you know, we're really kind of careful around this in terms of like, you know, people fetishize that documentary and they kind of fetishize the information and feel like we get to own you, right? And like, well, he said all those things and what does he expect. But there still is an amount of agency that I think is so important.

But one of the things that I wanted to ask you is, you know, there's kind of like a, you know, a tragic ripple effect when you've experienced the kind of things that you talk about and the kind of things that people come up to you and talk about. And you talk a lot, and it's in your music, about mistakes you've made. And I don't think you have to defend, justify, argue anything, you know, about anything that you've done. But I wonder if you can share with people who might be feeling conflict around the kind of expansiveness that trauma brings to your life. meaning it touches so many more places than the original place that it came from. And I wonder if you can talk a little bit about that, however generally or specifically as you want to.

Yeah, I think that there's something, especially when it happens, I think there's a stunted growth that happens. You're kind of sometimes locked in like the age it happened and you are expected so much from this world when you're like, okay, now I'm, In my 20s, I still can make excuse. Oh, now I'm in my 30. You're like, wait, but I have been dealing with this stuff my whole life. And I think there's like a stunted growth. And then I think that there's like also, I found what it was for me is like, and I think because it was like at an age where I was coming, you know,

I was getting my first girlfriend and I was coming of age. And I was like, what does it mean to be a man? And what does it mean to be in relationships and be desired? And, oh, now that this has happened to me, like, was like my manhood stripped from me. And am I going to be desired by people? And then you're in a situation where you are, you know, even though you're going on stage and, you know, girls are screaming your name and there is all this adulation and people are like, oh, man, if I could just have that.

But it's not, when you walk off stage and you still feel totally alone. And you don't know how to navigate properly through relationships. And you don't know. There's just so many tools that you don't have. And boundaries you don't know how to set because boundaries have been just completely just red rovered your whole life. And so you and then just the feeling of just wanting to be accepted. or wanting to be appreciated or wanting to be admired or, you know, that becomes sort of a drug in itself, you know. And so it leads to a lot of loneliness and a lot of self-destructive behavior.

But I think that one of the things that has really helped is, you know, I talk to so many people that are just like, oh, I hate therapy or I hate talking to doctors. or I hate talking about it. Like, no, you don't need to talk about it. It really is, like, it's really the only way to get through it is if you don't hold it inside for so long, you know. Well, and part of the, when abuse happens to children, that's part of the formula. Yep.

Is you have to hold it inside. Yeah. Right. It's not an isolated incident that can be like, oh, this happened to me. And you run home and tell your parents, right? Yeah. I think the boundary point is a really important one to underscore because when a child's boundaries are violated, they do not develop a sense of boundaries. Yeah.

And it's not that like, I don't believe in boundaries or fuck boundaries. No, it's not. Your brain has not processed boundaries. Yeah. No, it's not a, it's not a, oh, my parents told me not to, but F that, I'm going to go, I'm going to stay out later than my curfew anyway. Like, no, it's not. It's like your, what feel like should be. natural boundaries that you don't even know are there.

They're just natural for you. I've been completely steamrolled and that you're like, what is, it just sets you up for, it can set you up for disaster. For sure. And I think that's also a really important point

that you make, the things that we do are the things we do to try and cope with those feelings. Totally. You know, because, and I think that's what a lot of people don't understand or misunderstand. Consciously or subconsciously.

Right. Correct. But a lot of people are like, oh, he drinks too much, or she takes drugs and that's bad. Or she has this other compulsive behavior, right? And what it is is it's a thing to try and numb what it's feeling like. But the person who's executing those behaviors might not even know that that's why. Right. You know, they're just like, oh, my, I'm predisposed to alcoholism.

Or I'm, you know, I was a wild kid. So, yeah, I did some drugs and I did this and I was promiscuous. and I, you know, did this and that. But the person often sometimes, like, it's like, well, that's just my makeup. Like, that's just who I am. I'm wild and crazy. I'm always like, where's the trauma? Yeah, it's in there somewhere.

And that's what a lot of people don't get to the heart of and get to the bottom of, of like, wait, like, I know who I am in my heart and who I would like to portray myself, like how I would like the world to view me is, like, who I really am. why the hell am I doing all this crap? Why do I keep getting into this kind of trouble? Why do I keep doing these stupid things? Like, do I just, is that, is that just the half of my mom and half of my dad, the suck part?

And then you really, when you get into situations or environments, like group therapy and places where people who care about you and you're starting to talk about it and really unearth these things that, and you discover so much that, because you replay kind of the same movie in your head over and over and over. And then when you really start to dissect it, you're like, oh, I forgot about that. I forgot about that. I forgot about that.

All this stuff starts coming back that you've just locked down. It allows you to realize, like, wait a second, I'm not lying to myself. I know who I am and who I strive to be and not to make excuses. for the behavior, but at least find reasons and ways to, you know, if you got a leak in your roof and you just think that, you know, just go turn the, there must be, there must be a faucet on somewhere, but it's like, no, there's a hole in your roof. Like, you, but you're not looking at like what is causing this leak. Like, you know, it's, you're just going to think, oh, okay, my, my roof just leaks. Like, that's what, that's what it is,

you know, but if you can go, oh, because A, B, C, D, now I can take. tackle those things and realize, like, that's what's affecting my mind. Can you talk a little bit about some of the positive things that have kind of come out of this? You know, I think that people obviously know that you and Josh and, you know, you and Miranda were obviously so incredibly close. Were those kind of relationships that felt supportive? Did you seek out, you know, support? You, you know, you talk about in the documentary, your girlfriend at the time who was sort of the one who helped you step out of the secrecy and the shame. And I know that she, you know, obviously saw the documentary, but can you talk a little bit about,

you know, either your co-stars or other people in that world who felt supportive? Me and her got to rekindle a great friendship because that at the end of the day, when we were so young when we were dating, that we were just best friends and we were just so close. And so it really was interesting talking to her after the documentary. and obviously she was someone who knew everything that had happened. Really seeing the impact that it just doesn't have on me, but that it had on my people I loved around me. And yeah, I mean, that was really wild hearing her perspective

and just her journey through life was completely affected by this situation as well. And, you know, she's awesome, and we've gotten to rekindle our friendship, which is really nice. And, yeah, I mean, you know, people like Josh are, you know, I was really close to, like, for example, Jonathan Goldstein, who played the dad on the show. A lot of the producers and writers and people and stuff. And so, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, and throughout the time of working on the show, there was obviously people who knew what had happened and stuff that were close to the show. and stuff that were close to the show. That was really where I found my solace and was able to feel safe.

Unfortunately, for the way the documentary portrays Life on Set, for me, my experience was life on set was the safe escape from what I was going through. When I was on set, I felt protected. I felt safe. I felt to, you know, and especially even after, it happened, even more so with the support that I had.

I grew closer to people. I was, you know, I really felt, I felt like, like, during the documentary on some aspects of it, I was kind of like, it's a bummer that this is getting kind of such bad light because my experience, and I can only speak from my experience,

but was when I got, when I got to set, I was like, oh, thank God, I just, away from my predator. I'm able to, to be around people I love. I'm able to get to do what I love to do. And does it get stressful sometimes?

Yeah, but you should have been on that movie that I was working on in Canada, in Romania at 3 o'clock in the morning with no child labor laws and having to do 26-hour days. And, you know, so I had already, so the stress for me was just like being at work. Were you and Josh?

Like, were you that close? Yeah, but I mean, Josh and I would obviously, you know, we started so young and there were, we were growing and going through our adolescence. So there would be times when we were like inseparable, you know, we'd be like finish work and, oh, what are you doing? I'm going to go home and play PlayStation.

All right, I'll meet you there, you know? And I'm like, we just spent 12 hours together and now we're at home, like, playing games and ordering pizza. But that's kind of how friendships work. It's like you spend more time with those people than you do with anyone. And also, I remember this when Joey and Jenna and I would hang out. It was like, they understood exactly what my day was like. Yeah.

You know, when you tried to hang out with, like, you know, kids from school, or like, they didn't, it was like they had a whole, they did, it was a different universe. Yep, totally different universe. Yeah. And, but then there was also times where I was like, I'm only talking to Josh if it says it in the script. Okay. Otherwise?

Kind of like us. Yeah. Otherwise, keep him away from me. And I'm sure he felt the same way. Because those were just normal teenage, you know, ups and downs that you would go through. Completely. I wonder if you can, just one more question about sort of like the documentary. and as I said, there were these kind of like two components.

And, you know, I had a lot of feelings even before, you know, your part of the documentary started in terms of, you know, things that we were told were acceptable on sets. Just like even things that weren't necessarily, let's say, abusive, just there was a standard of behavior and decorum that by today's standards were just not okay, right? And, you know, Amanda Binds is someone who, like, there's references to it and there's all this speculation, you know, about sort of not just her, but about this ripple effect that these kind of sets, you know, have on people. And I wonder if you have a different perspective now as an adult of kind of what you experienced, what it's like for young people operating in an adult world, kind of with everything that you've seen.

and also everything you've been through. Yeah, I think that there was a... I mean, and I'm only speaking from my experience. Sure. But there definitely was a adult atmosphere while working on a children's show, but not nearly as much as if I was working on a guest spot on an NBC show or a guest spot on an ABC show,

like where they weren't these standards and practices of like, hey, we're making shows with kids, four kids, like we need to keep up a decorum on set. Whereas if you're working on a show that's for adults, that just happened to have a kid in it, that's interesting. Your experience is totally more. You're going to hear some, you know,

work in blue at lunch. Like, you're going to hear some stories that you're like, whoa. I was really a Nickelodeon watcher. You know, I was a little bit older, you know, than you and already, like, just annoyed with television and just. just because I was like living and breathing it and it was like coming out of my ears. But I have to say there were some things like the, what was it, the Ariana Grande stuff? Yeah.

I was like, how did this happen? What is happening? Yeah, I mean, there's always. That seemed like a joke to me. Yeah. Like if you would see that on an S&L skit and be like, wouldn't it be funny if a kid's show? If a kid's show did this. Some of it went really far and like my jaw was on the floor.

I was like, wait a second. This is weird. Yeah, I think that there's weirder than I thought. I think there's weird and because of some of the, it's like going and seeing a Pixar movie with your kids. Is it? Like, there's jokes in Toy Story 3 that you cannot explain to your children. Okay, but they're not like...

Okay, but they're not like overtly sexual and like... Absolutely overtly sexual. The stuff between Barbie and Ken, the stuff between... I mean, you are not going to explain these jokes to a child. Right. But it's more of like double entendras and verbal jokes than it is dramatized. It's dramatic. Dramatizing.

Well, I think also the differences, too, is you're working with live actors versus animation. Mm-hmm. So you're actually putting people in these situations that are not just animated. I'm just saying it felt weird. Yes, and the water bottle scene where she's being dramatized, it just feels like overtly exploited. Yeah, I think that there's two, I think that that's a double-edged sword, though. I think that there is because there are things that are questionable. Now all of a sudden you're looking at every single thing is questionable when it's like,

that's just a pie in the face. Kids like funny words. Kids think it's funny if you say, like, for example, they're like, oh, there's too much about feet. Well, I have a three-year-old. And you know what? If I tell him some sophisticated joke from Frazier, he's like, huh? But if I grab his feet and I go, oh, you have taco feet. It's the funniest thing he's ever heard in his life.

You know, he's dying loud. Do it again, dadda. Do it again, do it again. No, my feet don't smell like tacos. Yeah, you have taco feet. It's the funniest thing. Well, now you put it in here and it's like, oh, why is he making so many feet jokes?

Well, because that's what kids laugh at. Like, so I think that they, I think that there was obviously things that push the envelope and things that put people in situations that maybe they felt uncomfortable in. And when you group them all together. And then didn't have the, didn't feel because they were not,

at an age or had the experience to be like, no, next joke. Like, I'm not doing the potato gag. Give me something else. No, I'm not going to do the water gag. Give me something else. They don't have that feeling of they can go up to the, you know, whoever's in charge or their parents or their parents can step in. And they might not have been listened to anyway.

And that's what I'm saying. There's huge pressure. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. But when you put them all together, I think that there is a little bit of like what's been happening on YouTube. I watch these things get put together. And I'm like, okay, like three or four of those, I could say,

all right, that shouldn't have been on a kid's show. But this is a 20-minute video of, like, somebody getting squirt with something in the, I'm like, that's a pie in the face. That's not trying to look like, you know, but then there are other things like, you know, even on Drake and Josh. Like when I spray the suntan lotion all over the kid, and then Josh comes in and goes, what's all over your,

never mind, I don't want to know. You're like, okay, well, obviously, that's a reference to something. You wouldn't be like what's all over your face it's got suntan lotion all over there. Obviously that's a reference to something. Right.

But I think that there is a little grouping them all together and going like like dude like sorry if I tell my my you know if I'm like oh I feel uncomfortable I got cheese in my pants.

It's like oh why are they talking about what's inside of a child's pants? It's like dude it's a it's something funny that oh, bring me the ointment. Like, ointment's a funny word. Like, we're not trying to take that anywhere. But then there are things that I think...

Well, they lose credibility when they step over the line like that. Exactly, exactly. And you lose trust in... Exactly. Do they know what's appropriate? Right. You live in Mexico primarily. I'm in Mexico a lot.

I was recording my last record that we just released. And so I don't officially live in Mexico, but I may as well, because I'm... I'm there quite a bit. Do you otherwise live out of a suitcase? Yes. What is that like? It's fun, you know, I mean, especially right now because the record just came out and so we're on tour.

I had, we started out off in Mexico and now I'm back here doing shows in the States. We had a bunch of shows. And then next year we go deeper into Latin America. Amazing. Off to Europe. I wonder if you can talk a little bit about your music. Do you speak Spanish? I speak enough.

Do you sing in Spanish? Yes. But you also sing in English. Yeah, yeah. How did this come about your kind of music foray in Latin America? Well, I put out an album in 2006 called It's Only Time. And we went on this big tour in the U.S. And it was doing pretty well.

But we were also billed with... a couple of other acts that we're pulling in a lot of people. So, you know, we were playing big places like Irvine. Well, I think it's changed the name since Irvine Amphitheater and Hollywood. Like big places, but we were pulling in wasn't just my band. Sure, right. You're not headlining. Yeah, yeah.

It was like a co-headline thing. And so when we would play by ourselves, you know, we pull in like 500,000,000. people. It was a lot of people. It was the first, I mean, my first record I put out independently, my second record, this is the first record on the label, first song that had gotten any traction or anything. But we got booked some shows in Mexico. And only time I'd been in Mexico is, you know, growing up in Southern California. And it's like, oh, it's a summertime, me and my brothers and family are going to go to Tijuana and Rosarito and hang out, you know, just crossed the border for a couple days. And that was like my experience in Mexico. I'd never been to Mexico City or

Guadalajara, Monterey, or anything like that. And we had some shows booked in Mexico, and I really had no idea what we were walking into, you know? And we landed at the airport, and it was like the Beatles at JFK. It was like, what is going on? You know, who's on our flight? You know, who's coming? And they all had signs and fans, you know, it was just mayhem.

It was like, it was total like the opening of Hard Day's Night. You know, they're like chasing the SUV. and they're outside every interview that I go in to do the radio stations and I you know, they're like, oh, you're playing auditorio Nacional. I'm like, okay, cool. Like, is that a club?

I have no idea. I'm totally walking in blind. You're just like booked and this is where you're going next. So I go in to do something like this and it's basically like their Kiss FM. I'm interviewing with like their Ryan Seacrests. It's like the biggest radio station and DJ and he's asking, he's like, you know, it's quite an honor to be playing at the

National Auditorium and you have two shows there. you know, what does that feel like? I'm like, feels great. I don't know. Like, it's cool. Like, I don't even know what it should,

but it's an honor, really? Like, I'm like, what's going on? And then at the end of the interview, we do, you know, how you do liners. You're like, hey, what's up? This is Miami, Alec, and you're listening to KFWB. So, um,

they were having me, they're like, okay, the first one could you say, you know, thank the fans for keeping your song at number one. I'm like, what? Like on the, like on the station?

Like, like, Number one, where? Like, at the taco shop? Like, where is my song number one? They're like, in the whole country. I'm like, what? It's a big country to have a number one in. Yeah, I mean, it's huge.

You know, I mean, eight and a half million people just in Mexico City. And I turn around and I'm like, looking at my team. I'm like, what are you? Okay. Hey, thanks for keeping my song at number one. Like, you wouldn't, nobody told me this? Like, what's going on? And then they're like, okay, next liner, could you say,

thank you for keeping your album at number one? What? I'm like, what? The whole album is the number always like, you have the number one. one record in the country right now. Wow. Like, this is insane.

So then we get to Auditorio Nassu now, and we go to sound check, and I walk out onto the stage to do sound check, and I look at the audience, and I'm like, you know, all these empty seats, it's like 10,000, 15,000 empty seats. And I'm like, oh, they think that we're good. Like, guys, do they think that we're going to sound? there's only going to be people like in the front. Like this is too big of a place. We might like, you figure like 500 people will fill the front.

Yeah, I'm like, we need, we need a smaller place, you know? And they're like, no, it's sold out. Oh my God. I'm like, what? And they're like, yeah. And actually we had to add a matinee show and that sold out too. So you have two shows here sold out today. I'm like, what?

Okay, I have a question, though. When you're performing for 500 people, that sounds like a lot of people. I mean, that is a lot of people. And, you know, I only know the acting side, right? So I know what it's like to see 500 people in an audience. As a musician, how different does that feel to like 5,000? It's totally different, but also there's really cool things about them both. Like, I was playing shows recently in Dallas and in Oklahoma City, and they're in clubs, smaller crowds.

But you have more of a... connection with the people when it's a smaller crowd. Like, you can mess with the... Like, a bunch of fans were like, I didn't know I was coming to see stand-up too. And that's something that wouldn't necessarily happen if I'm playing to... Like Eniro Pato, we just had like 30,000. What? And it's, you play to...

It's more energetic. Like, you come out with like a bang and you got the fireworks and the dancers and the visuals and all this. But it's more like... I don't know, you just... It's like a... You see like the first... row and then it's just a sea of people.

So it's like really, I mean, you get the energy from the audience and you're putting on this huge rock show and you're a lot more energy. But then when it's a smaller crowd, like, you can make jokes and you can pick someone out of the audience or you've got the guy, you know, the free bird guy or you've got the drunk guy who's like, enough of the story. Just play the song, you know. And then you can like mess with him and then like get the audience to laugh. And so they're totally different experiences, but they both have like really cool aspects. You know, like walking out on stage to a sea of people. I mean, you feel like Elvis. You feel like a rock star.

You're like, oh, this is incredible. And then you walk out on stage and you're like to, you know, a couple hundred. And you're like, oh, I get to play tonight. Like, I get to mess around. It's kind of funny because, and I think it relates to a lot of my acting experience and maybe yours as well. There's different levels of dissociation that you get to engage in as a performer. And it does depend a lot on like what's out there, right?

Because when you think about, like when I would think about run through, right? So I don't know how your show work, but like ours, we would do like a run through. And it was just for, you know, 20 people, right? It was for the writers and the producers. And it was a very small group. And then the next day they would add network people, right? So it would kind of grow. But it's like your energy has to match and your ability to invest in what other people want from you.

Totally. Changes, right? If it's 10 people. and which 10 people. So I'm wondering for you as a performer, and especially with your experience as an actor, are there different levels of kind of like being able to check out and hide, you know, in a different way?

I don't know if it's like checking out and hiding. I think it's, I mean, I love performing. I love being an entertainer. I grew up on all of the classic. Like, my dad raised me on Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin and Avent Costello. And I love, I mean, not that I would ever have the guts to do it, but like I'm obsessed with stand-up comedy. And I really have that.

That's why I think, like, what you were saying is when there were points in our show where we had a live audience when we would tape on Friday night. And then there were points in our show where also because our live audiences were usually younger people. And it's like, how are we going to wrangle these kids? You know, it's like you can only throw candy at them for so long until they're like, okay, we've seen this, you know, you go watch a show with the adults in the audience. They can watch the same scene four or five takes and see the different jokes. and whatever, but when you got kids in the audience, they're like, we've seen this, like, next, like, let's move on, you know. And audience, you know, adult audience, you can kind of say,

they'll laugh at the same joke because they know they're, like, contributing to part of it. And then there were times when we didn't have a live audience, and so it was definitely a different, because I love to perform, I love to hear what's working, what the, you know, what's, you know, getting that instant gratification of, it's the difference between working on live sitcom and then working on a movie.

You know, it's like, oh, okay, we're doing your single now. Okay, we're now we've got to turn around. All right, see in three hours as we turn everything around. And then you do the same thing and you shoot like half a page a day and you're like, oh, my God, how many more novels can I read in my trailer and go through the

entire season of Sopranos? It's just so boring, but when you work on a sitcom you get that like, oh, Friday night, all right, hey, the show's starting, okay, we're loading the audience in, like, the lights are up, all the hair and makeup people are there, everything. It's like you're going, it's more like theater.

It's like, oh, man, we got that energy of a live audience. So there definitely is a difference between doing a sitcom where you just have, like, the producer filling in the laugh track, like, you know, just one person laughing just to fill in. There's always that one writer who's like, ha ha ha ha. And it's just so to give the actors the timing to say the next line because you don't want to step on the laughs. And so you're just like, I'm like, okay, it's not... I mean, our producer was very good at making it seem like

they were real laughs. Like, it wasn't like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, like, just for timing, like, it would work. But it's nothing like having an actual audience laughing at your jokes. Wait, I just want to, like, I want to go through the different kinds of laughs there are, because there's also, like, the writer who laughs, and then their face completely turns dead inside when they're done.

And it's like, ha, ha, ha, ha, like, waiting for the next one, right? There's, like, this whole variety of laughs. the writer who only laughs at their own jokes. Like, you could tell that they were fighting for this in the writer's room.

And then the producer was finally like, okay, fine. And then there's the one writer that's like just laughs at their own joke. And you're like, I know every line you wrote in this script. But they're laughing like, huh? Yeah, yeah.

Told you. They do the hit. They do the, they got the rolled up script and they slap. They're like, told you, told you it worked. There's also, there's a laugh where the face is not laughing,

but the sound comes out or they're just like because they know they need to fill that time. I just did four different laughs that I've never thought about. Ours was actually not... He was very good at making it sound like

a real laugh. So it was never the same laugh. He would laugh. It was very boisterous and... Yeah, it was... It worked. It worked. But a lot of that is about timing.

Yeah, it's all for timing, but nothing compares to having an actual audience. Drake Bell, tell people where they can find you and where they can find your music. Before we end this. Before we end this, it's my turn to interview you. Okay. Okay. So I've seen every single episode of Jeopardy.

Since, well, actually, I take that back. Since I've been traveling so much this past like year, year and a half, I have missed a lot because they don't play it in Mexico. And they don't stream it. They don't stream it as they should. Like, I should be able to get every single episode. of Jeopardy and if that's possible and I'm on the wrong streaming network. We can start a campaign.

Please tell me. But literally since Holeshouser's streak, I have not missed an episode of Jeopardy. I'm absolutely obsessed with the show. And I mean, even when we're on vacation in Hawaii, you guys play at four o'clock. There's two episodes. But you're on earlier in the day. And so I will literally be like zip lining with friends. or like on a hike. And I'm like, guys, guys, it's 245. Like, we have got to get back to the house to watch it live. Anyway, so what is it like hosting Jeopardy?

How did you get, how did, because they were going through all of, there was all of the speculation of who the hosts were going to be. Yes, I should. So I should say you've missed an interesting year. Okay. I am no longer the host of Jeopardy, but I did have a very, very enjoyable. run. So when they did all the celebrity kind of tryouts, I never in a million years thought that I would be selected, which I eventually was. I had an unbelievable time doing it. And largely because the

amount of information that I got to learn on a daily basis was just so exciting, like things that I never, you know, would get to know about. And it was incredible, but I was working on a television show at the time. And so I was on Call Me Cat for three years. So I was bouncing between and like every hiatus week going to do Jeopardy. And, you know, we do a bunch in a day. And it was, it was really exciting. We did Celebrity Jeopardy, which was really fun because I also got to like meet incredible people that I wanted to meet. But it's a very, I'd say it's a, I consider it. I consider it. It's like, it's stressful in a positive way because there's so much precision required. That's what I was going to ask you.

There's so much precision required. How nervous are you to like read every question correctly, know how to put the emphasis on the right, you know. Yep. You know, how do you say it? What was Alex has always the, the, oh, shoot, his genre, like, like, how do you pronounce this word correctly? I mean, Alex also spoke French.

Yeah. They very quickly realized, oh, shoot. she doesn't speak French. I speak other languages, but not French. But it was, it was intense. Is how I would describe it. Do you get to see obviously, like, what do you get? You get the clues the night before. Only the clues. The clues the night before. Well, with the answers, because you have to be able to answer them in case they don't answer them. Okay, so you have to learn all that. Clues and answers. You get them the night before or the next morning. So then you get ability to, so when you practice a little bit, but not a lot. But if you have something, a joke to

reference with the thing or you have something, some random fact about it. But mostly it's also, you know, it's a very different thing than being an actor or a performer because you want to highlight the guests, right? So you want to kind of give that space for them. And some guests are, you know, more anxious than others or nervous or not very chit-chatty. But yeah, having to kind of come up with interview questions, but there's also a very, very skilled staff. And it's actually a writer's guild show. And so those members of the Writers Guild worked their butts off. write both the clues and also to help with sort of the whole vibe of how you speak

to contestants and stuff. I would just, I would love to, I mean, I don't know if I could host because it just looks like the most stressful job in the world. Even though you've got, Alex made it look like the easiest job on the planet. It's incredible. But I know it's like, I just watched that and I'm like, this has got to be the most stressful.

And then going up and interviewing them after the commercial break and you're like, just these random people from these random towns that have never been on TV. It's incredible, though. But you mean amazing people. You're like, tell me that funny story about your dog. And they're like, oh, my dog went out in the snow. And then he came back in and he got snow all over our living room. You're like, well, here's, that's the story. That out of your whole life. That's what you shared on Jeopardy? Here's a promise I will make you. If I ever get to host again, I'm going to reach out to you and bring you with me. Do it. Do it. Do it. Because I would love it. I

I would love it. Please tell people where they can find your album, all things, Drake Bell. The album's streaming everywhere.

You stream music, Spotify, iTunes, everywhere. And I'm Drake Bell on everything. So just Drake Bell on Instagram and Facebook and X and all that stuff. Thank you.

Thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate you opening up and talking so intently with us. And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.

It's my and Biolix Breakdown. gonna break it down for you she's got a neuroscience phd or two one fiction one and now she's gonna break down it's a breakdown she's gonna break it down she's gonna break it down