Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Felicia Day: Cultivate Your Sense of Play

Episode Date: March 15, 2022

Felicia Day (author, actress Supernatural, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, The Guild) stops by to discuss the pursuit of her own creative endeavors after feeling like she didn’t belong. She explains the positives and negatives of her socially isolated homeschool upbringing and people-pleasing tendencies. Felicia touches on imposter syndrome, the commoditization of artists, and the importance of setting the template for those who come after you in your industry. Mayim and Felicia consider the consequences of allowing others to determine your self-worth, especially through the use of social media. Watch Felicia Day on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/feliciaday BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You do a lot of improv, and you're kind of like the one or two, there's one or two women in every group. And you see some of these guys make it, right? Big directors, right? They don't work with the women. The women who started out with them, who were in their first project, until they get dumped. When Felicia says it, I don't feel like people find it as offensive as when I say it. Maybe I need to talk more like Felicia? Yeah, more squeaky.

A little more hairsteryonic. A little less articulate. More ums. More Muppet moves? It's Myambiolic's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. Because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down.

It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down. Hi, I'm Myambiolic and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to. A little bonus in this episode, we're going to break down cryptocurrency and NFTs. How and why? because we are talking to Felicia Day. If you don't know who Felicia Day is, you should.

And she is going to talk about so many aspects of her career, her journey, the ways that women in particular can feel like props in Hollywood. But first, my favorite prop, Jonathan Cohen. Hello, ma'am. I'm not sure that's a compliment, but I'll take it anyway. He doesn't like being a prop? I mean, I'm a full 3D human. Also, I don't want people to think that this is a crypto episode because they make it, some of our audience might be like, I really don't want to be into that.

It's just a small part at the end that we get into crypto. So Felicia, she's an actress, and you may know her from Supernatural. She was on Buffy for a bit, but she kind of became known. She co-starred in Joss Whedon's Internet musical Dr. Horrible Sing-Along blog, which actually won an Emmy. and she created and starred in a web series called The Guild, which went on for six seasons. I actually know her through Will Wheaton. She is well known in the Comic-Con sort of geek universe.

She also created a YouTube channel and production company called Geek and Sundry, which some of you might know about. Also, I've done some stuff with Will through that and with her as well. She produced over a thousand videos and had over 2 million subscribers on YouTube during her time with the company. She's written two New York Times best-selling books. She has three shows in a different. development. She does so many things. And we do talk about, she created, she has a creator coin,

which is called Geeks, which she'll talk about. It is non-environmentally impactful cryptocurrency that forms community and helps make creative projects for her fans and like with her fans. And it's something I really didn't understand. And she'll talk about that a little bit. But mostly she talks about kind of what it was like to forge her path as someone who did not fit in and really forged not only a career but a consciousness around being comfortable or trying to be more comfortable with who she is. And I really look up to her. She's one of the people that inspired me, you know, to start my sort of foray into an arena that was largely male, especially in the geek, the geek space. So, yeah, very excited to welcome Felicia Day.

Break it down. Thank you, Felicia, for coming. to play with us. It is really, really nice to see you. It's good to see you too. I love to see your background. I'm really nosy about people's houses. So I'm like, what is that in the background? I like that brain. I like the human figures. Your hair is a stunning, vibrant color and kind of the color of our curtains a little bit. I am your curtain. I am, and my face is pale enough to be the center of it where the light is blowing it out. So let's just say, Felicia, you are, you know, As I think I've told you before, you know, you were one of the first women that I knew of, you know, who existed in a space that I wanted to exist in. So I see you as a, you know,

someone I really looked up to as someone who really authentically, you know, presents herself. In a field that's, you know, so often dominated by men, you know, and sometimes boys, but men. I'm close with Will Wheaton, you know, who always speaks so highly of you. And Hank and John Green, you know, were some of the first people that I spoke to when I was thinking. of just entering the YouTube space at all. And we actually had Grace Helbig on. She was our first, I think she was our, was our first interview, Jonathan?

She was our first ever episode. And it was, she was great. She talked all about, like, anxiety and just, she was really, really awesome. But I hope it's okay, you know, that I sort of think of the two of you as the first women I was introduced to that. No, I'm honored.

Grace is so funny. I remember her before she even had her own YouTube presence. And she was able to go out and launch her own thing and just be such a huge success and so funny. Yeah, I love her. She is so entertaining and wonderful. There's so much talk now about, you know, women having inroads in places we didn't used to. And it's so much a part of our conversation now, as it should be. But, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, it was the Wild Wild West, you know, especially for women who, quote, didn't fit the mold,

especially for, you know, those of us who might have been known for other things, like in my case, you know, being an actor or whatever, but who wanted to share more of ourselves. And so, you know, Felicia, at her young, Sprightly age, really, really was kind of one of the pioneers, you know, and is highly, highly regarded, you know, in this very, very intelligent and creative and fun space. So the place that I want to start, and this is what Jonathan and I were talking about, like, I sent him your, you have like a website. You know, you have a website that's your website. I need to redo it so bad. It's very, no, but it's very nice.

And there is a tab called projects. Now, the fact that I know what a project is, like if I had gone to your website 10 years ago, I would have been like, what are projects? Like, what is she doing, right? But when I sent this link to Jonathan, I was like, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, the projects. Like, you are a person who does so many different things in our industry. And you've done it as both the in front of the camera presence and also the behind the camera presence. I know how people feel when they look at things that I do. Because I looked at it and I was like, how does she do all these things? And, you know, also like, you're a mom. So I know all the things

that are actually involved. You know what I mean? I know that like it's important to have good people around you and blah blah blah and a good support system and someone running this. But I really want to kind of, I want to know, I want to break down who Felicia is. I want to know how you got to be you. And I'm not going to just make you like free associate about it. Tell us a little bit about where you grew up. Like what was your family like? Do you come from a tech savvy family?

Or do you come from a creative family, siblings? Like just give us the, the, the right. Breakdown. Yeah, this is, I feel like that's a big question. I have so many shoes to fill. And thank you for being so complimentary. I, in fact, admire you for the exact same reason that you admire me, what you just said. Like, you are authentically out of the box yourself.

You lead with what makes you different. And normally that's not something that succeeds in our industry. Especially for women. Right. For women in Hollywood, forget it. And I'm like, I could count five people, you amongst them who are like, oh, Felicia, just keep auditioning. You'll get a job one day. So to hear that from you is really wonderful and also kind of is a testament to how women can't feel super proud of what they've accomplished because we always

have to feel imposter syndrome because it's so hard and it's such an outlying thing that feels like it could disappear at any any second. So I think that what drove me through, especially a lot of my life as being an outsider because I was homeschooled. So my parents, I come from a very science-heavy background. My grandmother was a nurse. My grandfather was a very highly accomplished nuclear physicist. My dad's side of the family was less science-based. They were military family, but my dad was super into science and engineering. He ended up being a doctor. And my mom was a microbiologist. So it was very science-heavy, but I also had an aunt, my mom's sister, who was super in a theater. So she's the one who got me into sort of a more performing arts path. And my mom

started me. My mom kind of basically raised me to be a geisha. She like at two, I was taking violin lessons. At five, I was in ballet. I took opera lessons. So I had this strange sort of growing up in the 19th century sort of. And I was homeschooled. And I literally, I cannot actually emphasize this enough, I never had friends. I never had other children I was around in a natural, honest, unsupervised way. And so, you know, as I have become a mother, I look back on my child and I was like, you know, that was a little weird. Why were you homeschooled? I mean, was it a religious decision of your parents or just? It was because my dad was in the military and we moved to the Gulf Coast of Mississippi, which had the worst schools in the country at the time. And my mother was always into

sort of experimental schools, you know, but she's mostly, especially in the South, the best schools are private schools who are religious schools, Christian, very fundamentalist Christian, some of them. And she was definitely not that. She's super kind of hippie. So really for her, the best solution was to try to homeschool, but really I was unschooled. I really didn't learn anything and any structure. I had a couple of lessons. I had lessons. And then I just did whatever I want, which was mostly reading and watching television. Well, and also just as a person whose children are homeschooled. I do want to say that some people unschool as a conscious choice, and it doesn't mean that there's not, like, for example, our kids were technically unschooled, but they also

had a rigorous academic path that they have followed. We just, our philosophy was unschooling, but you're talking about more like lowercase unschooled, where it was more free range, it sounds like. Yeah, much more free range. And I totally, yeah, that's why when people are flipping out about their kids in COVID, I'm like, dude, it's fine. Kids don't, like, they'll get it. And if they read and they're exposed to really cool things and they have a couple of lessons that keep them on track with a couple of things they can build on, that's fine. Like, I'm not worried. Like my kid is going to go to kindergarten soon, but I found a place.

It's like a language immersion school because I think it's really important to learn another language. I don't speak another language. So we're going to learn Spanish together. And then, but I arranged for her to only go four days a week. And they were like, okay, because I'm like, I don't want her to go every day. She didn't need to go every day. And so they're fine with that. And if it doesn't work out, then I'll just be like, okay, we'll go.

three days a week. Yeah, I'm, I'm super casual about it, because especially at a young age, I feel like, you know, the more exposure, the more children get to play, the more imagination, and the more sense of self outside of other people kind of imposing self on them is really, really important because we, that's, especially I think as young kids, you're adopting a lot of gender stereotypes, stereotypes about race, you know, not being exposed to things, you know, that's just my philosophy. Are you a Waldorf person? I'm not, but she does go to a preschool that's similar to Waldo. Okay, because we were a Waldorf family when they were little and we did like, you know,

we did all the things like the no TV and the no batteries and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But a lot of that was, you know, to emphasize play and to not put our kind of our cultural expectations of play play and education onto them. So yeah, I definitely did that. Also, I call her playroom, her work room. Because for me, play, and this is something I have to tell myself always, creativity is about play and having a sense of.

play, but also having a work ethic about your play. And so that's, you know, it's taken me a long time to get to a healthy place in any way. But especially with creativity, you know, which is super important to me. I even wrote, I have a biography that I wrote that was a bestseller. And also creativity book about how to open up your own creativity with lots of exercise and things. It was also a bestseller. And that's been kind of a therapy for me to really understand why a lot of the things I do the way I do. And also be freer in what I do because a lot of the reasons why am the way I am in a good way are all the reasons that I've had to struggle with in a bad way. Like being socially isolated allowed me to be myself and be super confident and love what I

love without feeling like, oh, girls don't do this, or that's weird, or that's going to be rejected by other people. But at the same time, being socially isolated made me too much of a perfectionist, and I compare myself to adult's abilities. And so I always have a little bit of imposter syndrome. So there are a lot of, like, psychological things that I feel for the first time in a healthy place, and a lot of that is becoming a mother and thinking outside of myself and how to form, you know, help form a person and allow them to form who they are in a very unfettered state.

So, yeah, a lot of it is layers. Anyway, long story short, I was homeschooled. I was a little bit weird. I was not exposed to anybody to say that I was weird. I went to college at when I just turned, like a month after I turned 16 because I got a full scholarship for violin. And I was like, let's go. So I don't have a GDD, but I did get a 4.0 in mathematics and violin because that was

what I just ended up doing, especially since I was illegal to date. It was not distracting to be in college. And so I graduated and then I was like, I'm going to be a famous actress. Okay, wait, wait, hold on. Okay, before we get there, are you an only child? No, I have a younger brother. Okay, and was he homeschooled with you? He was, yeah. Did you like him? Like, did you play together? No, it's a good question. And in fact, we weren't very close. And that's very strange to be in an isolated household. And, you know, there's a lot of psychological things. He's a very intro, like, I've never seen my rather not in a book or a phone, you know? Yeah. So, you know, very, and he was kind of the opposite of me. I was such a pathological people pleaser that I would do anything to get an adult to say I was impressive. Yes. And he was like the opposite. So we both had coping mechanisms to deal with. When I look back on, I don't resent anything. I'm like, yeah, that was great. There could have been some things I would have done differently. But my mom did her very best. We were very poor. So it wasn't like we had all the resources and I got a lot of skills that have seen me through my life. I just think socialization is very important in a certain level just to kind of feel who you are with your peers.

And that's what I didn't get. And that's what I struggle with even to this day. And, you know, that's just the way it was. But I wouldn't change anything for the world because I'm who I am. My Ambialx breakdown is supported by superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine. Drink more water.

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And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention My and Bionics Breakdown to help support the show. What kind of hippie was your mom? Yeah, no, I don't know how to even describe my mom. I love her. She's very zany. She's very, very intellectually curious, not very disciplined in a way. Like we were never like, sit down and work.

So like I did sit down and work and my brother never did. And so we have both of those things. But why did I sit down and work? Like that's, you know, did you sit down and work for yourself? Did you sit down and work to please other people? Like, you know, those are the things that I've always been in therapy talking about. like, why did I do that? So, yeah, she's very, like, we had, like, greenpeace shirts and we recycled way before anybody else.

So she was more of a hippie. But also, she does have chemistry. You know, she's super educating chemistry. So when we took vitamins, we understood why we took vitamins. Got it. Okay. And what kind of doctor was your dad? He was a military doctor.

Okay. He was trained to be a plastic surgeon. But, like, trauma surgery, and then he did trauma surgery, and then he did plastic surgery. Wow. I was curious about the idea, paraphrasing, to be able to feel who you are with your peers. And you kind of struggled with that as a kid. And then I'm curious, like, what does that like for you now? Because you said, it's still that way.

But in some ways, when I look at all the things you've done, you've kind of been yourself so much that people have, like, gravitated and come into your world. So instead of sort of, you know, lots of people are trying to mold themselves to be amongst their peer groups. It's like you created something that people came to. to instead. Yeah, no, absolutely. That's where I feel comfortable kind of running my own life. Like, I mean, for me, the best thing about COVID was that I just kind of cut off Hollywood and I realized, oh, this is a toxic relationship you have with this because they've never

actually accepted you. Nobody's ever put a ring on it, but they use you for what you've built on your own. But this desperation to be needed and wanted by this, you know, this industry is not bringing out the best in you and doesn't do. So like having to reconfiguring my. my mind to be like, I'm going to do what I love to do on my own. And if I get to play in this playground, it's wonderful, but you can't have my heart anymore because I'm too vulnerable to wanting to please people to just to be able to be half and half. Do you know what I'm saying? When you're in a

toxic relationship, you know, it's almost me being toxic in that please like me. But when I'm my best and I do things that most people admire, I'm doing my own thing. And my usually in my room or getting people together to do it with me as a leader. It's very strange. I don't know how to describe it. No, no, no, I totally get it. And this is something that, and I do, I want to then, I want to get back to, you know, Felicia in college because I want to know, I totally want to know it, like, I need to know all the things about that. Okay, good.

A lot of the women that I know of, you know, who do kind of make their name, you know, as something, I don't want to say more, but something besides, like, being an actress or a model, those women are often very quirky. And I'm not using that word lightly, you know, but, you know, one of the things that I could say about Felicia that is something that I, you know, continue to cultivate in myself because people like Felicia do it is a sense of wonder and playfulness, which when men do it, it's like, oh, they're like they're comedians and there's something, you know, but when women do it, it's like, she's that girl. Like she's the girl who's friends with more boys than girls, but not because she wants to have sex with them. It's just who she wants to hang out with because they like the same things, you know? And I just think it's really interesting that like that sort of identity, you know, for women who want to make their name, it then becomes like that, you know, that personality. But it does make it then hard for people to see you as other.

Or, you know, the word that my publicist always uses, like, we need people to see you as competitive in the industry. competitive. So what that means is, you know, I'm not allowed to show up like I do here, like anywhere else, right? I'm just, I'm not allowed to because the idea is you need to be seen as on par, you know, with that. I remember when I, I went to that, it was like this L magazine Women in Comedy event. And I really didn't want to go because I was scared to go. And it's not that I didn't see myself as a woman in comedy. This was like, I don't know, seven years ago. I was terrified to go because I don't feel equal, you know?

So, you know, I paid $1,000 for a stylist and $700 for the hair and makeup because, like, that's what you do? And like, I got clothes on loan and I had to, like, freak out. Like, do I wear spanks? Like, this doesn't feel like me. Like, what do I wear? I'm like, oh, then if you look sexy, it's acceptable, right? And the only reason that I actually went was because Eliza Schlesinger was going to do comedy

that night as the entertainment. and I really liked her comedy. Oh, she's really funny. Right. So I get all for puts, you know, I get all dressed up. And I just, I mean, Felicia, like, I'm sure you know what that feels like. You show up at this carpet and they've dressed you up. They've, you know, they've, like, propped you up and you're in the heels and your tits are up here and the lashes are fake and you got extensions in.

It's like, and I still feel like that girl in seventh grade who isn't allowed to play with, the pretty girls. I'm not interested in what they're talking about. I'm not interested in like the whatever, the gossipy stuff that happens in junior high, you know, and like I dress weird because I dress. But you still have the bravery to embrace that. It didn't feel like, but it didn't feel like embracing. And I think like that's sort of, you know, that's what this sort of makes me think about. It's like, yeah, it's true. I exist in an industry where I'm constantly, constantly up against it. I had a scene that we filmed yesterday where I was in a t-shirt and a skirt, whatever, and I was sitting in a car, and I had like a denim jacket. And the whole scene, I'm just sitting, just sitting. And at one point,

this is literally what I heard. Can we get Kia to set, please? And Kia is the person who's in charge of my clothing and my body in clothing. And our first AD, who's a lovely woman, looked at me and she's like, it's just something technical. We'll just be a minute. And I'm like, what is happening? And Kia comes over and she reaches into the car door. It's a fake, you know, it's a car and a green screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was that my role of belly, you know, which is like my mom, tum, was being accentuated by this T-shirt because I don't, I don't wear spanks.

I don't wear body shapers kind of as a statement and a policy. But also, like, that no one could say like, hey, Ma'am, can you just pull your shirt down? Like, it had to be like this, like, please bring the woman to set that makes her not look like she has a stomach, you know? And it was embarrassing in that I'm thinking, like, and this is just where my head goes. Like it makes me feel like crying. Like who saw it? Who was looking?

Was it like a producer? Like who was like, mm, that's not going to work. And I totally get that aesthetically, like I also could have just been told to sit up straight, right? But it's that notion that like even you're the star of the show, you're the executive producer.

But in a second, you know, in a second. Yeah. Well, you're just an object to be exploited. I mean, let's be honest. Like I think you bring up some interesting points in that we're in an industry or I'm

half in half out. That's the only, I mean, like I'm so healthy now. I'm like, I could leave tomorrow. It's fine. I could do other things. But I'd really still like to do this because I do enjoy it, but you can't have my heart.

So it's kind of like a very liberated like, I'll dip in, but I'll get out. Because I have a family. I have things I do on my own where I can realign where my self-worth is. And therefore, then you can go get treated like, you know, crap, because you can always come back to the place where you really know you are worth something. But honestly, it's because you're a woman. And in this industry, there are men making decisions. and men make decisions about women based on their sexual attractiveness to them.

And, you know, you think that you're safe because you're the quirky one that you don't have to be sexually appealing as much. But then you realize, especially when you get older, that, oh, you'd had no function really for them. They just kind of stuck you in when they had an extra thing where they needed someone to not be sexually attracted to. So it's really toxic. And, you know, all women seem to get disposed of after 35 in this industry anyway.

I'm hanging on at 46. You're doing great. I haven't had anything done. My hair's all coming in gray. I'm like a little bit bold over here. But like the fact that you could succeed and set that template for people could make it easier for a woman or a man to create another role for someone in that same position. Because there is no precedent. Unless you break the mold, nobody's going to ever follow.

So I think it's really valuable showing up with a role. Or, you know, rejecting the body shavers or whatever, doing whatever. But at the end of the day, doing whatever it is that you need to do for yourself to make yourself feel confident, not for other people. And that's the psychological thing. You have to unhook from doing things for other people. Well, and that's where, you know, people don't like when certain among us bring up the patriarchy. Because a lot of people say, like, well, what makes me feel good is getting all the plastic surgery becoming a stripper. And that's my feminism.

And the fact is, from the lens of our. culture, you know, the value we place on a certain kind of perfection and sexual appeal, that's the lens that we are then deciding, what do I feel good in? So, you know, the stripping down, you know, of those expectations and really trying to find out, who am I really? Yeah, it's very hard. You know, when I started reading books to my child, I noticed, oh, this is what women are taught. They are, they're taught that they must be beautiful. And their worth is whether they are beautiful. in the eyes of other people, specifically men, right? And so that's just basically hammered into their mind from birth.

So therefore, how do you fault anybody for thinking my self-worth is my face, is my body, is how beautiful not, and then you start to distort, well, I think it's beautiful. When in fact, if we were in a culture where it's beautiful to not wear pants, like, you know, like culture. I would win in that culture. Let's do that culture. I'd be the queen of that culture. You know, and for me, like, I used to really dunk on the Kardashians, but in fact, I have to think

about that family and that legacy as the epitome of taking what men say you have to be and then owning that power, right? They have turned themselves into the ultimate beautiful that all men want, what they've been told that they need to be all, and yet they have the power. And I'm like, well, I should stop being fricking. You know, they're succeeding. They did turn themselves into something they weren't organically, but how do I dunk on somebody who literally have shown the power that they can have? I don't know. It's just really interesting. The older I get, the more like, you know, don't be bitchy to anybody else. Just don't do it. So take us back to college. So you start college young. What did you initially want to study? I was just drafted into being a

violinist because I was very good at it. It was somewhat of a prodigy. Did you like it? I don't know. Well, I didn't keep doing it. You know, I think that's a really complicated question. I don't know if I did or not. I think my motivation was to please other people and be very, very good. And I did like practicing. And I liked going to college and playing violin all day. But something made me drop it after I went to college.

I guess I just didn't see like a path for me that I would be happy. But I think at the end of the day, I was so needing external gratification that I needed that idea of being more famous or more wanted and more. and I loved acting and I loved on the other side, I loved the collaboration of doing theater because that's all I really knew, right? So I was like, well, my fondest memories as a child around other people were doing plays because that's really how I hung around other people. So that joy of collaborating and making things with people really sent me to L.A. thinking, well, this is what I want to do and I'm going to be famous. And it did not turn out that way. But that's what motivated me. How old were you when you came to L.A. I was 20, a just or 21, I think. Wow. 20. I was before 21 because I graduated

super early because I was, when at 16, you know. So you came out here alone? Like, just. I had volunteered for film festivals and I knew some people through though. Yes. So just jumped on in. I mean, God knows how dumb it was. But at the same time, you know, I had saved up some money and I knew how to be scrappy. So, and I thought, of course, I was just going to get discovery. the next year. I mean, it was obvious. I would just be sitting somewhere and someone would come up and say, put her in a film. Right. So you essentially lived an actor's life. And so you, let's say at 20. So what were those next years like? I mean, obviously auditioning, did you have another job? Like, I kind of want her to be like, I was a computer programmer on the side because I feel like maybe

that's something. No, I mean, here's the irony. I was rejected soundly most of the time. I was told I needed to change my nose and my mouse, but I got a commercial agent, and I just happened to be very good at pleasing people. So I was a great prop, and I just ended up booking, and this was when you could really make a good living. Oh, you could buy a house on a commercial, they told you. Let me just tell you, I could, I mean, not that, like that, maybe, but I definitely just did, I mean, after a couple years, and I just started hitting big commercials, and I would, I would go out 20 times a week, but I would get hired very, very frequently. And it was great. because I was able to support myself, but it also led me down this toxic pact of thinking less

and less of myself as an artist and more as a prop, because that's what they treat you like in commercials. So it really led me to, and then I had such an anxiety disorder. We haven't even talked about anxiety. Let's do it right now. Tell us when that started. At birth, so I think I just I'm really high strung, but, you know, not having been exposed to people over my year, you know, it was very hard for me. And performing, I was so good at. you know, violin and I would practice so hard that even super, super nervous I was able, but I was never able to enjoy it because the anxiety got the better of me. But, you know, there was not a point at which I was like, I should do something about this. I tried therapy

a little bit, but I did it dabbled. And so anyway, I would get so nervous when I went to theatrical auditions, I would never book anything because I would just like, doop. Yeah. I would self-sabotaged because, you know, I was putting myself worth in other people's hands. Again, it's like always comes back to that. You know, whatever your motivations, whatever it is, if you truly know yourself and you know what you want to do as an artist, then when you leave and are rejected, you won't feel acutely because you know you did your best, right? And I know people tell you that all the time, like internalize that. I'm like, it's not easy. You really have to live a lot to really have that perspective on yourself. Like, I couldn't have done

better. And if they didn't want it, I think I'm there now, maybe. But I was definitely not there at a younger age. That's kind of what led me into doing my own stuff because really I was so frustrated and so upset at not being seen and told that I, but inside there was still a flame like, you know what, I am cool. I have something to say. I don't care that I'm not like, I deserve to be talked about like the kind of woman I am, the kind of girl I am. Like how dare you always reject me for my nose when in fact I have, I'm interesting. I know it. And like, I did have enough self-worth in that perspective to be like, you know what, I'm going to write myself my own thing. And so that's where...

Good place to pause because, like, that would not have been what I would have thought to do. I would have been too scared. Like, I would have been like, okay, I become a nun. I moved to, like, somewhere in Central America and I live a happy life there. That sounds fun. Well, you know, it's a different kind of fun. I am curious about kind of this other aspect, you know, of like acceptance and approval. Did you date in Los Angeles? Yeah, I don't really talk about my personal life, but I was lucky not to, you know, I did a lot of improv and I met people through there and film festivals. So, yeah, I would never go out and just seek a date. Right.

Well, and I think also that's just, and we don't have to talk about it more specifically, but I think that's also another component of like, especially Hollywood. It's like the levels, all of the different levels of our industry touches all parts of your life. Like even if you're trying to date someone and you're not an actor and they're not, this industry. It's in every fiber, like, of this city. So it's like the notion that you walk into a restaurant and everybody's like, who's walking in? Like, that happens all over L.A. all the time. And, you know, just in terms of also, like, thinking about, you know, the formation of a young, you know, actress in particular, right? It's like you're constantly putting yourself out there.

That's what dating is, too. It's like constantly putting yourself out there and auditioning when there are standards, you know, kind of outside of, like, those realms. But there's also like social constructs like you are the one girl in the improv group and everybody needs to be able to date you. Yeah. Or, you know, like, and I was very like, ch ch ch ch ch ch, like I don't. And I think, you know, there's an aspect of me not growing up in school where I just see myself as a total equal to guys in a sense.

And I don't assume that I'm being, you know, that they only want to know me because they want to date me. I just have this, I don't know if it's naivety or just like arrogance. I don't know what it is. But, you know, when I look back, especially when I got very, you know, successful was super popular. And Hollywood was like, what is she doing out there? Let's get to know her. Like, I had publicist calling to fix me up with famous people. I had CEOs from Silicon Valley calling to be like, let's cut a lunch.

And like, I would go to these lunches and be completely naive. And then I'm, and then I'd just treat them like a person. And I wouldn't play any kind of sexual dating thing. And then they never called me again. I was like, oh, this interesting conversation. I look back and I was like, fully. Alicia, they were trying to date you. They didn't admire what you were doing.

I would just like talk excitedly about, you know, tech. I would talk about like what I was doing, creativity. Like, but, you know, so naive. But at the same time as a, you know, I'm proud of myself because like I don't just, then you're just like, oh, did I succeed? And all men see and my success is something that they could take for themselves, either sexually or co-opting the success. That's where I get really cynical.

No offense, Jonathan. None taken. Jonathan, I think, is smiling because there's so many aspects here. Because I know what's happening in your head right now. Jonathan has had to point out to me, like people that have tried to date me that, like, I didn't even know. I'm very... So when I first started hanging out with my... We knew each other a long time, and then I guess it was about three, two and a half years ago we started hanging out.

She had this, like, organizing principle that no one... wanted to date her. And I kept saying, well, this person is texting you like, they're interested in dating you. And she would be like, no, that's absolutely not true. And I'm like, oh, all right, that's pretty defensive. I'm not going to get through on convincing you of that. And then she was like, okay. And then someone else, I'm like, that's pretty much sounds like they're interested.

No, they would never. And she would list out all the reasons. And then someone else, I'm like, that person definitely wants to date you. And she would get even more adamant. We don't talk about that. I don't talk about my personal life. I'm like Felicia. Leave me along.

Yeah, okay, good. Okay, you don't talk about your personal life. The main takeaway is that I was right. There's a lot to unpack. I mean, it's a lot of theoretical things where I get really resentful. I'm like, can men ever see a woman? It's not like, because I see, here's what, I don't know if you, I think that you're going to associate with me, but this is my rage about Hollywood, especially in comedy, right?

So I don't know if you did any improv or whatever. I'm terrible at improv and it makes me cry. It makes you cry. Okay, it's not, it's fun. It's fun when there's no stakes and everyone isn't trying to get their, you know, work deal but you know so you do a lot of improv and you're kind of like the one or two there's one or two women in every group and you see some of these guys make it right big directors right they have this group of comedians they work together over and over again right they don't work with the women

the women who started out with them who was it who were in their first project they don't cast them at their seven project but they're still cast in the dudes yeah and it makes me so angry and I'm like well did you not see them as a performer and an equal I don't think you did and it makes be so angry. It makes me angry because it's like you should see, this isn't work. The success should be shared amongst you. You did it together. Why is that girl or woman not integral to your artistic voyage? And yet it does it. It's like they get dumped and they get, you know, one of them gets a wife in the movie. They work together 20 years. They get a wife. She's just like 20 years young. I'm just like, why? Why can't, what happened to Carol? Don't forget about.

Carol, come on. When Felicia says it, I don't feel like people find it as offensive as when I say it. I think that's true. I think it's, and this is also, this is just an aside, this is also like she has a gentler voice. She has a way that she speaks that is less abrasive than my man voice. No, but I feel like I literally, this is what I've been, I think a lot, people say you can't have one more, more than one thought at a time. I disagree. So while she was saying that, I was like, if this were a script, could I try and say, because what you're saying is so, it resonates so deeply with me. But I feel like if I were to say it, people would be like, she's just a jealous bitch. But when you say, I'm like, why can't I talk? Is that what you're thinking?

No. I mean, I'm not. No, but that's what I'm saying. When I hear you say it, I feel like it just sounds better. I'm like, maybe I need to talk more like Felicia and people. Yeah, more squeaky. A little more hairstrionic. Little less articulate.

More ums and more more Muppet moves. Okay. So you decide to create your own thing because that's the most logical thing to do. No, it's not. Yeah, no, I did. I was in a, okay, so this is what the true story is that I got addicted. I was addicted to video game for my whole life. I've been not addicted.

I just love them. I mean, it was definitely addiction, certain times when I was super unhappy and I was being rejected all the time. I was on Buffy for a long time. I was like, oh, I belong somewhere. I think, you know, and also going back to what you're saying, it is a sense of belonging. Like, all we're looking for is to belong with people who see us and accept us for who we are, right? And so that's not going to happen in a business because it's business.

And so that's like a maturity thing. Like, Felicia, you don't belong. This is a business. You're going to be used because you're people. a business and then people will move away. Like, you need to actually get over that. You can't resent that. That's a business is a business. Personal is personal. And Hollywood is so incestuous with the two. It's very easy not to be able to separate the two. But anyway, so I got really depressed and I was playing World of Warcraft like nine hours a day. And then I got drawn into a support group of

five other women who were in Hollywood. And they were like, hey, once a week, we'll just meet and we'll talk. And we call it chicken. So it's like five women every week. having pancakes kind of sharing their wins. And of course, I had no wins because I basically was playing World Warcraft every week. So I finally got guilty. And I was like, I'm going to write something because I, the person who got me into the group was my sketch writing teacher. She's wonderful. And she ended up being my producer for many years. And so finally, I ended up writing a script, a half hour script about gamers. And because of the group, the other two women, YouTube was just starting. And she was like, hey, let's just break this up in pieces and put it on this new thing called

YouTube. I was like, can we do that? I was like, what? But, you know, we did it. And that's, you know, and when I first, and so I think talking about being accepted and rejected an outsider insider, when I first uploaded my first video, and this was not, this was new. Nobody knew that you uploaded things and got comments on them. When I first saw that, it was literally a revelation to me. It's like, someone sees me. They see me as a creator. They're verifying that what I want, who I am and what I want to do is something that other people will like, unlike the last six years of my life. And so I got to do this. And that's where I just got on a roll and I just kind of never stopped until I sold my company and left my company about five or six years ago, five years ago.

So where was your kind of, where was your anxiety journey in this? Like did you feel a relief and a release when you kind of stopped a certain level of, I don't want to say competition, but a certain level of engaging with the industry and kind of make. made it more your own? I mean, I did feel more confident and driven in that I knew what to do. Like, I grew up on the internet. My grandfather gave us a laptop that was as big as a desk, right? I was used to talking to people online before, you know, I was at early internet adopters. So I understood the technology in a way that allowed me to get my art out in a way that most people wouldn't, it wouldn't have occurred to them and it wouldn't have been appealing or possible. So, like,

for me, that that was part of my upbringing, you know, like it was wonderful. My, my, my parents being so tech savvy and interested in tech and having it around just as a thing, that definitely paved the way for me to do everything I do now. But, you know, yeah, every time I would go back and it was really the audition process that I, I mean, I remember being like, there was a show that Christina Applegate was starring in. And I remember it was me and Melissa McCarthy at the time was just like so weird. Like we had this. But it was before Melissa McCarthy was like Melissa McCarthy.

So it was me and her and like I had a panic attack. And this was after the guild was starting. where literally my brain, I was watching myself from the ceiling. And I had such a panic attack that I walked out and I collapsed. I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. And I took like two years off unless I was just offered roles, which, thank God, I started getting offered roles because people saw my work on the Guild online. And they're like, that's an incredible type.

I love that type. I would love to show that type of girl on my thing. And I can work. I just can't audition. So I ended up being on a couple, three or four shows where people wrote parts for me and I loved it. What's that type? It was like the hacker, you know, the girl hacker type. You know, I think more of them came after me, but I was on Eureka.

I was on Supernatural. I was on, there are some guest stars, other places. Like, yeah, it was like she's a quirky girl. She's, she's feminine, but she's not, she can be weird. You know, very big bang, I guess. So, which I was never on, but hey, well, it's fine. It's all cool. But like that kind of archetype, which is awesome, right?

Like, that was the heyday of that. I was on the beginning edge of it. Right. And I'm really glad because honestly being on set and not having to worry about whether we have craft service or what the upload schedule is or doing comment. Like, what a relief to be able to do what I actually moved here to do, which is just to act with, pretend with other people, right? And so, but it was always the stuff that I did myself that really was the most gratify. And I loved. And I was very, very driven.

And I just, I became a workaholic, which is a whole other thing. But at the end of the day, I was working towards something that felt like, mine and it was so so gratifying. So many, so many things. You know, I remember when I started my YouTube channel, my friend, Emu, who was, you know, essentially started it or encouraged me to start it. That's exactly, you know, what he pointed to was, was you. Oh, thank you.

He really felt like he found the thing that would give me a place to stop wanting more because I would finally see that I was enough. But what was shocking to him is that I did not have a Felicia experience. And we couldn't figure out why, meaning I would see all these incredible comments, you know, especially when I would share things about my mental health challenges or I would share personal things, you know, it didn't feel like enough. I still didn't feel like I found myself. And, you know, it's probably because like it's in your own backyard and, you know, I'm still working on that.

But it's like the trajectory, you know, of this past. that you've been on is it feels so gratifying just to hear about. No, I mean, I think it's, I'm really into stoic philosophy and I'm like, if you are satisfied, then you're the richest person ever, right? And so I think especially when it comes to online, this is kind of, you know, this is kind of the challenge. You compare yourself with people who get 10 million videos, you know, views on every video. And that is great. But I've actually realized, I've come to realize after kind of downscaling dramatically, right? That need to please and those numbers are only, those numbers are exactly what Hollywood

thought about your face before. Because those numbers are great, but you're looking for those numbers so that other people will want to exploit you for those numbers, right? And that's when I got that in my mind. I was like, oh, I'm not actually enjoying this process. I'm trying to build something that will be useful for the very system that I just, I created this for to rebel against, right? And then it's like, well, am I doing?

doing everything to be seen by them or to just to be seen, right? And so there's this sort of back and forth. This industry is very, it's very insidious in a way. And it's also just the reality of it, right? As women, you know, I'm like, how I've got to have to do my hair today because I need an Instagram to get the algorithm up so I can actually promote the things I care about. You know, the manipulation of it. And or like, oh, I need, you know, this brand deal needs this many numbers. So I just need to do something to get my numbers up. But am I actually thinking about who I am as a person or the community who loves and is touched and transformed. Because as you say, one person being transformed is, it's the point of your life, right?

And I, and the more, but we are always drawn away from that by the commoditization of us as objects, as our art as objects and commodity that other people can exploit. Well, and I think also it's not, and this is, you know, sort of, I think, important for people listening. Like, it's a very specific example to use Felicia and my industry, for example. but as the parent of a 16 and 13 year old, what I'm seeing is this has become part of like everyone's life. Yeah. It's become like, you know, kids who otherwise in my mind when I was that age

should be like playing tetherball, right? They are trying to figure out how do I get likes? How do I capitalize on my face, my body, my sexuality? Like it's such a, and I don't mean to sound like an old lady, but I frequently do. But it really does. It's almost like people are experiencing what actors have been experiencing for our careers. That's so well put. It's exactly.

Everybody's turning into actors in that you're outside. What you present as yourself is your reality. But in fact, when I was going around with my last book, Embrace Your Weird, I was really struggling with a lot of these things because I just cut off. left my company. It was super traumatic to me. I just become a mother, super traumatic because I don't know who I am anyway. So how is this happening? But I made the analogy where social media and all of this is like sitting in a car by yourself, but papering the windows with beautiful pictures of yourself. And so people are like, my God, that's a beautiful. Look how beautiful they are. But inside,

the real you is not being seen and you feel so lonely. Because you're just trying to figure out how do I paper the walls with the prettiest pictures of myself. There's no internal sense. of development, there's no self-worth. And it's just a sad thing. And especially, like you said, with kids, this is before they even get a chance to develop who they are. It's like the worst of child actors, right? It is. It's a wonderful analogy you just made. I want to hear more about embrace your inner weird because the message on personal branding is like, find the thing that makes you, you and embrace it at all costs and put that out there and develop that. And if you do that, you'll be rewarded because you'll build your community of people who like exactly what you're doing.

But it's pretty mixed message because in the back of your head, you're thinking, is my inner weird acceptable enough to build the audience that I only am going to get if I'm truly authentic to myself? But maybe if my inner weird is positioned like 10 degrees to the right, I'm going to be able to be more accepted and that's going to be more rewarding for me. So I think the whole idea of personal branding, which has exploded in the last while and the belief that everyone can embrace their inner weird and then find their tribe and community and feel okay. Like it's not such an easy. No, it's not, Jonathan. I tell you this all the time. No, it's not. It's not easy for kids to understand.

And it almost begs to be, you have to unplug. You just have to go dark. You have to unplug and you have to get some perspective about yourself and realize where you're happy outside of all that because that is the toxic. Even being loved is toxic in a sense sometimes, right? Always. I don't know, Myam, if you've had this experience on YouTube, I never was a vloggers. I mean, I did a vlogging show that was kind of nice, but I always really hated it because

I just didn't feel comfortable. But also, if you are a personality, which of course the online world, you know, I am Felicia Day, right, then it's hard to see past that or to accept somebody as what people don't like, people don't see you as or they like you as, right? So it's like, well, what is she doing trying to be sexy? She's the quirky way. Like, so you're already, you've created a beautiful cage for yourself not to be able to grow because even if you do succeed in being who you are, hopefully we're not static beings. Hopefully we're always moving into iterations of who we are and growing and becoming different things. And when I had a kid, it was really acute for me because how am I going to share

what I'm doing. I'm not going to parties. I'm not being sexy anymore. I'm not not not eating donuts anymore. Like, how do I be, and not to equate weight with sex. I'm sorry, that was, that was not cool. But at the same time, like, I'm not posting the glamour shots I used to do. Do I put my kid in all these shots? And I twitch, you know, I'm like, I'm not going to do this. This is because I'm like, I know what will get me more likes and more engagement, but I'm not going to take my child who doesn't, and that's just my preference. Like some people decide to do that. and they do it in a good way. Like that, but I had to make that decision for myself when in fact there's a very damaged part

of my brain. It was like, well, you got to keep those lights up. You've got to keep those numbers up. You've got to keep all that going. Do whatever it is it takes to keep your, you know, that momentum. And like, that's super destructive. And then I'm willing to destroy other people maybe by to draw them in. I don't know.

So you're absolutely right. Jonathan, I don't have a solution except it's all bad, but I love it. Belisha Day, it has been such a delight to talk to you. Just really, really excited to get to know you better this way and to share space with you. And really, you just make me so happy. So thank you so much for being with us. Well, I'm honored. I mean, I do not say this just because I'm sucking up.

But I really admire you. I think that you're a pioneer truly in the industry. Thank you. Don't know how you do everything you do. I wanted to full, you know, collapse. And I just was like, I got to start from zero. I can't add anything. But the fact that you juggle everything so well and you're so, you just inspire a lot of people.

So thank you for being there and somebody I can look up to in Hollywood who is actually doing the work that you need to do and allowed to do it. Thank you, Felicia. Can you tell how much I like Felicia Day? Two peas in a pod. But it's true. She says things that I'm like, why can't I sound like her when I say that? Like when she talks about the patriarchy, it's like, yeah, she's right. When I talk about people like, mm-hmm.

We haven't read the comments on her YouTube. We don't know if people are like, or not. She's absolutely beloved. I mean, in that kind of like, especially in like she said, like that Comic Con,

like she's, she's enormous. I mean, she's enormously, you know, successful at producing content that is like so her, you know?

And it's so interesting to think of like, you come to L.A. at 20, right? Which, like, no one should come here at 20 from anywhere. It's so scary and terrifying. But to think, that you come here like, I'm going to be an actress. And like, you know, I'm like, just out of college because I started at 16.

And then to have that experience of like, oh, this is not going the way I thought. How about if I'm just myself? And oh, then I build an entire business and industry of it. I mean, it's amazing. And also she hit at the very, very perfect time. It was like right time, right place. YouTube is just getting going. Gamer culture is turning into like the cool thing, which, look, if she tried to do that now,

level of competition and being able to break through would be so difficult. Yep. She found a geek and sundry, which she mentioned she sold, but it launched in 2012. It was part of YouTube's $100 million original channel initiative. Like this was 10 years ago. Old old school. Correct. I mean, she's the godmother of YouTube creation.

Felicia has a creator coin. It is a form. I'm just reading these words of non-environment. environmentally impactful cryptocurrency to help form community and make creative projects with and for her fans. I understand the part about creative projects and fans. I'd like someone to explain NFTs and cryptocurrency, and it turns out Scott has offered to do that. Let's hear it. What's cryptocurrency? Well, to answer that as quickly as possible, I have to ask you to ask yourself why currency is valuable.

Oh, so like money? It's money. Okay. And so money is verified and it's tracked and it's counted and it's kept, you know, organized by the federal treasury. And so cryptocurrency is basically a way of doing that, of generating a currency that can track itself. The currency itself is the program with which it is tracked and validated.

Okay, slow down. Slow down. Yeah, yeah. You lost her. You lost me. I was like, mm-hmm, I'm thinking so hard right now about what he's saying. So why would currency track itself? Just to make sure that it is validated.

A currency can't exist and be valid without an organization to validate it. So I can use crypto. Why is it crypto? Like dead? Is that the crypt? No, crypto as in like, cryptography as in like unlocking a puzzle. Basically like the way that it works, my explanation is colored by my opinion of it. But the way that it works is that a computer, two computers race

against each other to solve a puzzle. And that proves that one of them solved the puzzle, which proves that the cryptocurrency is in fact the cryptocurrency. And that's the system that we're coming up with for money instead of the Fed. Why are computers racing? apparently to cause grave ecological impact. There's a lot of energy that is used for cryptocurrency that is extremely ecologically negative. I'm sorry. It doesn't cryptocurrency, is it a real thing?

No, no, no, no, no. So how is it? It's digital. But how is it hurting the environment? The ecological damage required because of the energy consumption that the machines that are mining for crypto require is very damaging. What does mining for crypto mean? It's that you have a bunch of,

you have like a thousand computers in a warehouse that are... No, I don't, Scott. Well, you don't, but people do, and they are racing to solve these puzzles to find the next Bitcoin. It doesn't make a lot of sense because... I swear to God. Can you buy things with it?

You can, but it's very difficult. Then why does it exist? Because it makes some... Because it's going to get easier. So is, hold on one second, is the goal a world without money, like physical money? Correct. That's the goal. Correct.

Yeah. Yeah. I went saw Santana in concert. He opened for Bob Dylan at the Hollywood Bowl and he said, I want to visualize a world without wallets. Is that what he meant? Well, you have a crypto wallet instead of a physical wallet. And it will live on your phone and then you'll tap or you'll send things to people. But I have Venmo.

And that's how money will be exchanged. Is it like Venmo? It's like Venmo, but hopefully without the Federal Reserve. It doesn't make a lot of sense, in my opinion. To some people, it makes a lot of sense. I was just going to say, when you say it doesn't make sense, you mean something totally different than what I say. That doesn't make sense.

Like, that sounds like you have, God forbid, bite my tongue, poo, poo, poo, vernicas aphasia, which is what we call word salad in the clinical community where words are coming out, but they don't go together. All right. What's an NFT? Well, I would just compare kind of NFTs to like these have baseball and this or these have value in the same way that baseball cards have value if that makes sense. So like I'm okay, you want to ask me how baseball cards have value?

I may have a different answer than you're expecting. No, but I the same kind of idea applies in that like your. It reminds everyone of my father. Yes, 100%. Just in that like you're your manufacturing scarcity. So a certain piece of code goes with this piece of digital artwork to say that if you have this piece of code, then you are the owner.

So it was minted on this day at the first edition. You know, think about prints of artwork. Is it only for art? Well, people are using it with art, but people are trying it with all sorts of different things, maybe making it. So you could buy it and nobody else could buy that piece of art? That is true.

But you don't hold it in your hand? That's also true. You put it on the wall? Yes. I would say that, I mean, you could print it and put it on the wall, but the digital asset is the thing that you... Oh. But, you know, the conversation that we are having right now

around ownership and NFTs is similar to conversations that people were having when photocopiers came out. And they said, but how do I buy that if you can just make a copy of it? Right. And so now it's like, well, this is our way of manufacturing scarcity for the digital world. again, it doesn't make a lot of sense. But again, it doesn't make a lot of sense means something different to you that it does to me.

That's true. Scott, that was pretty good. Will I remember that? That go, we have to ask Dr. Joe Dispense where that went in my brain. It did not get imprinted. It did not lay down new connections. There's certain kinds of information.

This is two of those kinds of information. It's not going to stay in there. Tomorrow you're going to teach a university class. on NFTs in Cristo. First, I'm going to teach Felicia Day. I'm going to teach Felicia Day how to be an NFT cryptocurrency communicator. I'll put it on her resume

with her millions of other things that she does amazingly. If you want to explain anything to mine, you can do so at our Instagram page at Biallick Breakdown. If you haven't already subscribed to the show, do so anywhere you get podcasts. Check out her YouTube channel.

Click the little bell notification to get notified of new episodes. I think the segment is now Scott explains things to my own. I love it. I'll be like, what's Banksy? Tell me what that is. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have,

we'll see you next time. It's Maya Beolic's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fix she was. And now she's going to break down. It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down.