Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Geri “Ginger Spice” Halliwell-Horner: Death Energy, Self-Worth, & Lessons from America

Episode Date: October 10, 2023

Geri Halliwell-Horner (Ginger Spice herself!) discusses what drew her to the Spice Girls from the very beginning, her foray into literature and writing, and the life lessons she has learned from American culture. She shares her thoughts on what it has meant to be Ginger Spice, the connotations associated with being a redhead, and how her intuition guided her to stand up for Spice Girls’ biggest hit, “Wannabe.” Mayim serenades Geri with Yiddish songs and Geri explains how she incorporates songwriting into her books, why she resonates with Sylvester Stallone, how becoming a mom changed her persona and why self-worth can be our best defense. Geri Halliwell-Horner's new book, Rosie Frost and the Falcon Queen:  https://a.co/d/0co48Sh BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I wouldn't be the success I am if it wasn't for America. When I was a little girl, my mother used to go to work and I used to turn on the TV and there was lots of American TV shows like Charlie's Angels, a BA team, Rocky. You taught me that I'm allowed to dream and go for my dreams and dream big. That's America. That's not British. British is a little bit more conservative. I'll give you my quirkiness.

you know, that's sort of something different. But that was sort of, it got installed in me. I was sitting there going, oh, okay, yeah, I can do this. And it was you that gave me that. Sylvester Stallone, okay, he's a struggling actor. And he writes the script, Rocky. And finally, it's going to get picked up by a big studio on one condition. Now, bearing in mind, he is living in that, sleeping in the back of a car,

car and the studio says yes we're going to give you X amount of dollars like hundreds of thousands of dollars on one condition we're going to get somebody else to play the part this this dude doesn't got any money and he's like uh no sorry but i i need to play the part and that take a huge amount of belief and i think do you know what well done you sebester and i remember reading that story and it stayed with me that's america you're allowed to believe in yourself and it's really inspiring. So actually this British girl from the other side of the ocean, your first cousin, you know, is here with the patriot. It's Miami-Biolik's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you because you know she knows a

thing or two. And now she's going to break down. Hi, I'm Myam Biolik and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break things down. so that you don't have to. I'll tell you what I want what I really, really want. I want to break down Jerry Hallowell Horner, also known as Ginger Spice,

and she's going to be here today. I'm very excited about this. I'm flying solo, which is too bad because I think Jonathan would have had a great time talking to Jerry. This is our second spice, which is very exciting.

If you have not heard our episode with Mel C., you may want to listen to it. Check it out. It's on all the places where you are listening or watching this. But this is our second spice, and Jerry is not only a renowned singer and songwriter and actress. She is a writer.

She is a successful author of the Eugenia Lavender book series in the UK. It's sold more than 250,000 copies in the first five months. And she's an unbelievable children's young adult author, and she has a new book called Rosie Frost and the Falcon Queen. and we're going to talk all about it. Here's the short take. The lead character's a redhead. I couldn't help but freaking out about that.

There are songs that go with it. She wrote an autobiography, if only, which sold over a million copies in the UK alone, but she's going to talk to us today about how even before she was a spice girl, she was deep in the literature world. She's a writer. She has an honorary doctorate of letters.

She's a huge supporter of animals, and that is part of this book. And we're going to talk about that. I have to say, it's just so exciting to get to have her here and to hear about her experience as a mom, how she parents her daughter versus her son. And I even sing a little bit in Yiddish to her. You're not going to believe it.

She uses so many cool expressions. Just my head is exploding. It is such a pleasure to welcome Jerry Hallowell Horner to The Breakdown. Break it down. Thank you so much for being here. it's really a pleasure to get to talk to you. And there's so many things I want to ask you about, but I first want to show Rosie Frost and the Falcon Queen because it is such a gorgeous cover. And I'll be honest, I did not know that you were an author. And this is not the first book that you

have written. You've written an entire series. Can you tell us, for people who don't know about your writing career. Tell us when this started and sort of what you've chosen to write. The funny thing is, and first of all, thank you so much for having me on your show. Of course. And everyone says how adorable you are and well done, you, and all your success. Thank you. So you're obviously a very curious person and you love language and books. You know, you're very well-read and smart lady. And for me, my story is that I studied English literature,

before I went into music. I was studying like Hamlet and, you know, D.H. Lawrence. And I thought I was going to go down that path. I always love music. And for me, the music part was very much, you know, I really, you know, I'm no Mariah Carey at my range is about that much compared to that much. You know what I mean? It's fine.

but I like the writing part, you know, the power of words, telling stories. You know, when you write a song, it's like the perfume version of a story. It's going to make you feel something, which I really enjoyed. And so that love was always there with me. I love the power of words. And then so when there's a moment in my life where, you know, I wasn't doing any kind of music. I think I'd had a child, but it was before I had a child, I always think about, you know, what needs to be said.

And I felt like there was kind of a gap in the market of a real, someone that you could relate to for a much younger audience. So I created a character, Eugenia Lavender, the series of books. And she's like, she's quite feisty, but warm and funny. Anyway, it did really well. And so then, but then I thought to have, oh, I'd really, and then time goes on. And I thought, I'd really like to create a character, you know, that was older and that would speak to everyone. You know, and I feel like the world needs a new hero, a different kind of hero that's vulnerable.

You know, that's the real superpower is vulnerability. And that's a modern kind of hero. And it was, and I thought, well, maybe should I just age the one I've done up or something, you know. And then I went to see, it was Harry Potter's agent at the time. And he, and I said, what do you think I should do? And he went, start again. I was like, oh, okay. So, which I did.

And so I always do character first. And those characters that I started seven years ago are still exactly the same ones now that you read in that book. And they're diverse and warm and real. And, you know, I, you know, for me, they're real people. And so it took, but writing a novel like that for me was the hardest thing I've ever done. You know, it's like a baptism of fire, that having the sort of to learn the structure and, oh my goodness. Okay, you might know who I am talking about. Did you ever read any human heart by William Boyd?

No. Okay, he is probably one of the greatest writers of our time. He's like the maestro. He's brilliant. Okay, he got awards for this book. And I met him a few years back. I said, and I thought, oh, I was at Bucking, this sounds name-droppy, but I was at Buckingham Palace, right, for this, because I promote literacy. Right. And I was feeling a bit shy. I felt like,

oh, God, I don't know anyone. There was this man standing there, was older fella. And he said to me, I said, oh, are you writing? And he said, yeah. And I said, oh, what publishing house? And he said, Penguin. I was like, oh, my God, that's amazing. And I said, oh, would you mind reading my my draft of my book, right? And so, and he went, oh, yeah, no problem. More I didn't realize. He'd written that book that I love, but also it was like giving Humpty Dumpty to Beethoven. Do you know what I mean? It was like, you mind of a cheek of me, but he gave me really good advice. He said, start again, because it was, it wasn't getting the feedback at first that I wanted. He said, start again, write the whole thing again, but this time in the,

third person and in the past tense. Same story, but just rewrite it. And it suddenly changed it all. So it was all, everything you read in this book was there been a process and, and for me it's for the reluctant reader as well. So it can be for, you know, a young person, but also like my husband's read it.

And like our partners can be our worst critics. Because I was going, would you mind me? Because he doesn't really read. and do you want to know what he said? Yeah. Okay. Anyone that's got a partner might identify with this, right?

What he said? So he goes, I don't want to read it until it's finished. That was first of all because he was getting quite annoyed that I was always going off, you know, with, you know, escaping with writing this book. And so finally I give it to him and he went, oh, the first thing he said was, oh, he goes, it's much better than I thought it would be. It's quite funny. Right. And then, like, and he finished it a few days later, and he said, to be honest, you know, I was a bit surprised I couldn't put it down. You know, I could hear your voice. But then I just got so immersed, I wanted to know what happened next. I was like, my work is done. That's incredible and also a very high compliment from anyone, but especially from your partner.

Also, I want to mention, I think you described this book as the Crown Mean Girls and Jurassic Park smashed together, which is like hilarious. awesome. Can you talk a little bit about the animal component? You know, I'm a, I'm a vegan and a very strong supporter of all things animals. So I love that there's this component of this book. Can you talk a bit about that? Yeah. I mean, for me, okay, so it's set now. It's set now. Okay, so anyone listening. It's set on this island called Bloodstone Island, and, which is on the Atlantic, you know, the ocean between England and America. And it's got its own ecosystem. And this is true. The parts down that way, you know, it just, it, the plants grow in a different way. And in Bloodstone Island, instead of dinosaurs, it's got endangered animals there. That's what's

really enriched and growing. And it's got a school there, which is built by Queen Elizabeth I first in honour of her mother who was executed, right? And so that cut back to 500 years ago, Elizabeth's mother, she was executed by Elizabeth's father, King Henry VIII, and she'd had a miscarriage, which was a boy, and he just wanted to get rid of her because she was smart, had enough, and there was horrible people at that time. So Queen Elizabeth builds a school in honour of her mother, the Elizabethans were really smart, and they cared about the world. And so those values, Elizabeth, instills in the school, and it's the perfect place, Bloodstone Island. And so it does look just gently, it sort of wakes up that consciousness in you.

That, you know, it's a fast-paced adventure, but actually, you know, there's wildcats, Komodo dragons. Oh, nice. But the point is, Rosie Frost doesn't slay dragons, she saves them. You know, this is about, you know, what mankind is doing. It sort of reflects it in there. And, you know, if you're a Washington Post reader, a question is asked, you know, about lithium. You know, if, you know, we're trying to, we're always trying to, you know, put a band-aid on the problem.

So it gently asks those questions. I don't want to ruin everyone. But there's sort of real facts in there, some of it. But I just turn the gas up on some of it. So that makes sense. But really, if you just want fast-paced adventure, it's there. You know, if you feel bullied, you're going to find your power through it. It's got sort of different elements to it. Also, you released music along with it, correct? Correct? This was really exciting for me because obviously so many of us know you from a previous incarnation of your fame. And I just thought it was so cool that there's music that goes along with it.

And also, like, your voice is gorgeous. Can you talk about why and how you decided to do music along with this? Well, I always love the writing of the music. for me, it's such a personal thing, and I never stop writing, even if I'm not out there publicly singing. And I thought, actually, I got the idea, but I heard it on a children's book, a really young children's book,

and it was some sort of nursery rhyme at the back of the book. And I thought, that's interesting. Why can't you do that for like everyone, you know, put a song that's for everyone in the back of a book? And for me, Rosie Frost and the Falcon Queen, she's, it's a whole world, it's immersive. And I like me and the reader to be in it together, to be immersed in it. And so I thought, can I give you that gift of music as well to help you really flood you, flood you with emotion that, you know, and to help you with that narration so you understand.

And the two songs, you say they're very diverse. Yeah. It's got rap in there. Yeah. The other one's like an emotional, you know, it's the grown-up song. It's the reflective. Right. Do you, I mean, this might be a dumb question, but I have to ask it.

Have you ever thought of kind of writing in that format in terms of like when I think of stage musicals, right? It's kind of, it's weaving together this kind of story. And especially because you have such a strong penchant for historical fiction, have you ever thought of kind of moving any of your works to a stage like that? Yeah, I mean, that would be a wonderful part. to the cunning plan, isn't it? Yeah. That'd be lovely.

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Do you write alone in a room? Do you go away? Do you write for long blocks of time? Do you write here and there? I mean, you also have kids. You're a stepmom. Like your life is very busy, but I'm curious what sort of your rituals are surrounding writing. So we live in a world. Okay. This is what I tell to anyone that, you know, this is what's writing like. The wonderful thing about writing is that you get to play God. You get to decide who lives, who dies, who dies, who loves, who cries, all sorts of things happen. You get to decide. And it's a real amazing experience, but it's a blessing and a curse because I couldn't stop doing it, right? But I learned as I went what works and what doesn't. One thing I would say is about discipline. The phone, the phone has to be out of the room. It is a creative killer because you can be in

the middle of a scene and writing it and immerse. And suddenly if you get a text, you go, oh, What's that? And you just pulled out. And that's it. You know, it's saying like, I'm writing book two at the moment and I've had to turn. And sometimes you want to look up things on your browser of research. And so you need your Wi-Fi on. Okay. So I've used a different computer that doesn't have, like, direct email on it. That's brilliant. You have a writing computer. Yeah. Now, it's just Rosie, too, is her own computer. Because otherwise, you know, my other computer, is just about, you know, connecting the world. Because it's so distracting otherwise.

That's one thing I would say. And it was Dawn French who told me to do that. Do you know Dawn French, the comedian, actress? Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. French and Saunders. Yeah, she told me to do that. The other thing I read in Stephen King's How to Write,

he says, and this, I found this, sort of realized this later on, which I tried and it worked, is like to go in a dark, like, really dark, no other outside simulation. That's work. So I've got this, there's two things. I'll go into a little shed, like in the garden, or otherwise there's in the coach house and there's sort of like this mezzanine,

this really dark. What's a coach? I'm American. What's a coach house? You know, you've got a coat. I don't even know what that means. It's kind of like a little, it's like a medieval, dark,

building. It's quite small. It's on your property. Yeah. Is it like where the coaches would go? Do you know what? Exactly. You know so you have those arches. Oh yeah. I think they call that a Porte-Coseer. That's a word I know. Yeah. I didn't know that. Very nice. Port-Cocher. A port-a-co-shaer. So that's a place that you can also, I think it is. I mean, I'm American. We don't know much. Oh, do you know, can I tell you something about America? Yes. Co-sher. Right. And this is really important. Right. So see me as your British first cousin, okay?

Because, right, we sometimes, you know, we have to pull each other over the wall, okay? And I want just to share back with you that I wouldn't be the success I am if it wasn't for America. When I was a little girl, my mother used to go to work and I used to turn on the TV and there was lots of American TV shows like, Charlie's Angels at the A team Rocky okay you taught me

that I'm allowed to dream and go for my dreams and dream big that's America that's not British British really a little bit more conservative I'll give you my quirkiness

you know that's something different but that was it got installed in me while I was sitting there going oh okay yeah I can do this and it was you that gave me that

and so for me, when I bring, you know, to this, to your country, Rosie Frost and the Falcon Queen, it's got these values in it, right, which we can talk about. But they are sort of a reminder what you taught me, that you're allowed to go for it. I think that's, I mean, that's so beautiful, you know, my grandparents are immigrants to America. So I have a very, from Eastern Europe, from Poland and Ukraine and the Czech-Hungary border. So, you know, I was very, you know, I was raised with this very fantastic vision of America because it literally, it was like, give us your downtrod and your poor, you're, you know, exiled. So I think it's so, it's so interesting to hear

you talk about that, especially because you hold such a special place in American culture because of, you know, the role that you played in the invasion, you know, the second British invasion, which was your life as a spice girl. Like it was such a... I think it's a language. I believe we're speaking a language. Look, it's optimistic. It's so optimistic.

It's really a huge heartbeat. It's patriotic. That's America. It really is. You taught me that. All I'm saying is reflecting back to you. So therefore, it was like almost saying a language you already just needed some words for. It was yours. It's really interesting. I mean,

I hadn't thought of it like that. We had Mel C on and had a really interesting time getting to know her and kind of about her journey. I'm curious, you know, I'm so fascinated by, you know, all of your stories in terms of like, you answered an advert. Like, come be part of something. And at that time, you were studying, like you were in an academic space. What was appealing to you at that time in your life about that kind of adventure? Well, I always like music. And I thought, do you know what really appealed to me, actually? Because I like the company of women.

I thought, and I sort of met the other girls. And I thought, oh, this is really nice. I was actually enjoying, my father had just died, right? And I really wanted to create that feeling. of like, we're all in this together. So I call it sort of like death energy. You know, that's sort of like, and I was very, very conscious of like, come on, let's just do something with our lives.

I was very awakened to that fact. And so, and actually in Rosie Frost, she slightly touches on grief, you know, just very, very gently, which I think is, you know, if you want it, it's there. If you don't, it's not. And the same with, and so how do you, how do you, you know, navigate yourself in this life when, you know, you might not have a parent there. I've done, I've always done that through music or books or movies. And Rosie Frost, she gets given these four rules. So it's the same four rules that Amber Lynn gave to her daughter, right, when she's just about to have her be executed, she gives this book with four rules in it. And Queen Elizabeth's little girls, three, grows up to be the greatest. is monarch of her time. Then 500 years later, the ghost of Ambelin gives a rule book to Rosie Frost. And she navigates her way through being bullied.

She enters the Falcon Queen Games, a bit like squid game. And she's like, how the hell am I going to get through this? How does she, she needs to save the island from all the animals are in danger. So she's thinking, how can I do that? And there's four rules in there that I think could help any one of us. Do you want to know what they are? Yeah, go ahead. You probably live by them anyway, but they're Falcon Queen rules.

And in this school, they have a Falcon Queen gallery. So it's got, you know, women like, okay, so you've got obviously Queen Elizabeth I celebrate Falcon Queens. There's another gallery for Falcon Kings, but this one's Falcon Queens, right? So you've got Queen Elizabeth I first. You have got Charlotte Bronte. You've got Amelia Earhart. You have Frida Carlo, all these amazing women.

But there's four rules that they live by. And the first one is have courage. Take us the chance you fear the most, right? Second one is, united we stand, divided we fall. I need you, you need me. Number three is never give up. Be the light. Serve your kingdom, you'll win your fight.

It's like be of service. Let me be useful. and you become bulletproof. No one can stop people. I'm serving something else. I'm rather myself. It's for the greater good. That's it.

And then the fourth one, which I really like, and I think you will too, is to thine own self be true. If you liketh not these rules, make up your own. And it's saying, and that's Shakespeare, so Shakespeare went to Heva Bridge School on Bloodstone Island.

And it's saying, like, so he borrowed those rules. You know, you're living by those rules. She was like, do you know what? I want to do this and I'm going to be me. Is there something special about the fact that it's from a female perspective? I think that's important. I mean, actually, having said that, there are characters in there that are, I think they're modern boys.

If you can see it, you can be it. You know, some of the characters, Charlie, he's strong, but he cries. Like, so the boy, you know, the boys cry and the girls save the boys. You know, Rosie Frost doesn't slay dragons. she saves them. It's her perspective and she does, she's vulnerable. She's like, oh my God,

and she's not perfect. She's angry. She's struggling. And I think, you know, and we can sort of process our own stuff through a character. Regardless, you know, she's a girl. But beyond that,

I think, you know, you can sort of process things through her. I can't help but think back to you're mentioning Rocky. And I think you've spoken about, you know, some of the values, not just of the story of Rocky, but the Sylvester Stallone story that like no one. Yes. Right.

Can you talk about that a little bit? Okay. So you know what I'm talking about. For those listening at home, okay, so Sylvester Stallone, okay, he's a struggling actor. And he writes the script, Rocky. And finally is going to get picked up by a big studio on one condition. Now, bearing in mind, he is living in sleeping in the back of a car. And the studio says, yes, we're going to give you X amount of dollars, like hundreds of thousands of dollars.

On one condition, we're going to get somebody else to play the part. This dude hasn't got any money. And he's like, no, sorry, but I need to play the part. And that takes a huge amount of belief. And I think, do you know what? Well done, you, Sylvester. And I remember reading that story and it stayed with me. That's America.

Wow. You're allowed to believe in yourself. and it's really inspiring. So actually this British girl from the other side of the ocean, your first cousin, you know, is here with the patriotism of rocky. Well, and I wonder, I mean, I can't help especially because...

That is quite funny, isn't it? No, well, and also, like, I'm thinking of, you know, how much of historical aspects of your, you know, the country of your origin is in your writing. And, you know, that is a huge, huge difference, you know, when you have a country that is built on the monarchy and it's still so closely connected to it, it does it. It gives a different kind of boundary. And it's true. America is the, it's, we're the wild west of countries. Do you know what, though,

I've come to the conclusion. We're more alike than different. Like our outsides, do you know, mean culture, it's like flavors of ice cream, do you know what I mean? But fundamentally, we're all pretty much, and this is a generalization. fundamentally, we're pretty much the same. We're all scared sometimes. We all make mistakes. Can we give each other a little bit of grace? We all need each other.

But you sound a lot better than I do. That really. Just everything you say, it sounds so lovely. It does it? That's a story. I'll take you very much. I have a question. First of all, this cover is really beautiful.

She's a redhead. and I wonder about your particular fondness for redheads. You are obviously a redhead and you were known for being a redhead. Do you like redheaded characters? Is this something you like to sort of weaving? And I've tried different hair colours, okay. When you're a redhead, you're in your own lane. Okay.

And trust me, I've been blonde and you get that sort of different kind of attention, are, you know, we can't help judging books by their cover. That's the truth, right? Although we strive not to. But when you've read, you think about all the redheads in history. Okay, so we know Queen Elizabeth I first, Brave, Annie, Ariel. I mean, that's to name a few, but the reds, the sort of you can't pin them down. You know, so I quite sort of admire that. So they're, you know, they are what they are. They're in their own lane. I mean, I think of Woody Allen Carrot Top and my Uncle David. That's who I think of when I think of Redheads. But I do want to ask something when we had Mel Cion. Yeah. So we were talking about

just sort of like the personas of the Spice Girls. And I had my mind blown wide open because I was saying to her, like, each of the Spice Girls has like a carrot. or a thing about them. And then we got to you. And she was like, oh, well, she was just ginger. I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, oh, that's like a, in the UK, that's like a thing. Like, you're the ginger one. And I was like, how is that an identifying feature? But it was. That was what ginger spice was ginger spice. It was just you were the redhead. Yeah, because back in the day, 20 years ago, you were taken, they took the mick out of you if you were ginger. Why? What is happening? Tell me about this. I don't know about this.

It's quite a negative thing. You wouldn't get away with it now. It's like a minority. 20 years ago, it was quite like... But that's crazy. There's a lot of redheads in the United Kingdom. I know. So it was one of those things. People used to say, oh, jinge. It was quite derogatory. This blows my mind. Blows my mind. Therefore, I sort of learned to just... I thought, you know what? I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll take the, like, okay, we all can get marginalized for any, for different reasons. And I just thought, you know what, then even more, I'll own it. It's fascinating to me. Also,

your mother was Spanish, correct? Yes, that's right. So I'm very British father. Right. And was your mom, was your mom fair or is your... Well, she's very, she's got, she's got like a brown, urbanness to her. Huh. So I, there's little pictures of me I've got that sort of red no matter what I always end up I'm screaming red but just it's in there

and did you as a kid were you were you jinjy like were you a red head yeah there's always not screaming but just you know there's a little picture of me

where it's just I've always got as soon as the sun hits my hair it goes okay well I just like I said this is still blowing my mind because I mean in

you know in Israel you know we call people jinjis like if they're redheads. Like, oh, it's jingy, but there's not that that persona attached to it that you could build an entire character around it. That's fascinating to me. Will you talk a little bit about being a mom and how that sort of changed your personhood? Definitely. I think, you know, being a mother is such a gift. You know, it's definitely difficult in certain respects, but it's, you know, it has such huge blessings, you know, to feel.

that love to your child. You're a mother. Yeah, I have a 15 and 18 year old. I don't know about you, but when I became a mother, I suddenly, first of all, stop thinking about myself. I think I became less selfish. You know, we can still all be selfish at different times, but I definitely less selfish. I love someone or someone more than myself. And then sort of, watching a child grow up felt such a blessing. Like, I'm a creative person. So sort of watching them grow and flourish, I found it such a, it's a wonderful thing.

I mean, this isn't like a Disney version of what it is, but there's definitely these moments. You know, when she opened her exam results, I was like, when I watched her face, glow in delight, I felt more happy for her than my own self. You know, my own ambitions. When I watch her, I'm just like, oh, that's a beautiful and thing. And I have a son as well. And you may, okay, you have two sons. I have one. And I suddenly realized, okay, is it, is it, I'm wondering, is it maybe, you know, as a mother of a son, you know,

it's suddenly like the lion king and I'm not raising him like, oh, look at him. And I'll say, no wonder. I'm questioning, no wonder men are the way they are. I'm mothering like this son, like he's the, you know, he's the son amazing. I can't help it. I mean, oh, maybe I've got something to do with it. I can't help it. Well, I'm kind of curious. I mean, one of the challenges for me, and I think it's true whether you have children of the same sex or gender as you, you know, I have dreams for them, and then they also get to have their own dreams. And I wonder, especially, you know, you're an accomplished author, you're an accomplished musician. Are your kids creative? Do they have their own kind of thing? Do you find it kind of

interesting? Yeah, tell me. It's my son, he's six, and he's obsessed with Lego, right? And but he does the kind of Lego that where he likes to follow his instructions. So he's done the Titanic's for an 18-year-old, right? And all I am is his little Lego assistant on color coding. Like he's following instructions and I'm like, oh my God, that's interesting. He's like his brain is like very engineering, mathematical and yeah, he's developing and he's going to be what he's going to be. but it's really interesting watching him and also the books that I read to him, you know, what he wants to learn about. I really learned about the Titanic because of him.

And we went to the Titanic Museum in Ireland. It's phenomenal. I could name five different brands of tractors at one time when he was into it. I, you know, different aircraft and just what he automatically went to. That's he, you know, and the same, you know, my daughter, you know, maybe it's more archetype of what, you know, that's, she was much more very crude. creative and now she's into English very much, so, which is lovely. You know, and she writes beautifully.

Oh, that's really neat. Yeah, that's really nice. Can I ask how you chose her name? Do you know what? It's really interesting. I think when you name a child, I wanted to be like interesting without being silly. Do you know me? That's sort of the story of my whole life, my friend.

Yeah, exactly. So, and there's a fine line, isn't it? So Bluebell, I'll tell you where I got it. I love the movie Gone with the Wind. Okay. So you have Scarlett. Okay. And that was a very popular name at that time.

And I thought, okay, maybe is there anything else, you know, around that genre? And then Scarlett had a daughter called Blue. That's right. So I went, oh, okay. And then my father, his mother, she lived in France. She had a bit of French descendant in her. I think she was a bluebell dancing. And there was bluebell dancer.

And there was also bluebells at the time that she was born. So I thought that feels right. That's really lovely. She gets called blue a lot, though. I would imagine. Yeah. So I think we have to sort of, whatever you name a child, they always shorten it, don't they? Well, my older son, Miles has cajoled me that there is no shortening of Miles.

Miles Davis? Well, he was, I mean, he was named, he was named partly for Miles Davis, but he just said that there's nothing you can shorten it to. You know, I? Right. No, that's like weird. His middle name is, his middle name is Roosevelt. So sometimes we'll say, oh, okay. Yes.

So sometimes we'll say Miles Rose. Yeah, and when I really mean business, I shout, Miles Roosevelt, he knows I mean business. Okay. Any other one? Well, Frederick Heschel, and he got every nickname in the book. He's Fred. He's Freddy. Fritz. He's Fritz. He's Fritz. What's he like? There, well, let's see.

Freddy, you see the cheeky one. I automatically. He's not cheeky. Is he not? I'm thinking Freddy is a very cheeky name. No, no, it's funny. He was named for my grandfather who wouldn't stop talking all the time and was constantly talking, like to the point that everyone would ask him to stop. And Fred decided not to speak until he was about four and a half. And we thought that was very ironic that I named him for someone so chatting. Yeah, but they say, isn't it, I think the philosopher says, you have two, you have two ears, one mouth. That's right. Actually, I think the widest ones are, you know, saying.

Well, he was listening and actually, interesting musically. Well, no, he actually, he sang before he spoke, because I sang to him constantly. And when, I mean, well, I used to sing a lot of Yiddish songs. That was the language of my childhood. And so he would, he would, he would sing before he spoke. Like what? Do you sing to him? Go on.

I mean, it's this really sad Yiddish song. Go on. Just one. Vos givain is givain an incha. Sizavekinatai genisha. It's just like sad Yiddish music. But this little... It's equally sad in English.

It means what happened is over. You cannot go back. And when we are young, everything is great. And then when we're old, it's different. But what was funny was that when he, finally started, you know, speaking, he remembered all the songs that I sang to him. So you had this little tiny voice singing, you know, these Yiddish words. It was very, very eerie because I named him for this. You were telling him, you were singing with him saying, you can't change anything.

You know, as he was thinking, do you know, I'm going to think about it's right over my mouth. I can't take it back. And my mother sung that message. He's very, very thoughtful. I wanted to ask you, one more thing about being a mom in particular, you know, on this podcast, you know, we often talk about, you know, the complicated things that bring us here. And a lot of times, you know, when we have children, a lot of our stuff comes out, as it were. At least that was my experience. You've talked a lot about body image. You've talked about bulimia. You've talked about, you know, what it was like also to be a public person when everyone was looking at you and sort of how your life changes when you're in the public eye, which I obviously can relate to since I've been on television since I was very young.

I wonder, as you raise a daughter, do you see differences kind of in culture now versus when you were 17? Do you think about that? Or do you just sort of like go for it and and hope that she's learning, you know, as best as she can from the example that you said? You know, the greatest, okay, do you mind me asking what your grandmother's name was? Sure. I mean, I had two. Okay. One, her English name was Sadie, but her Hebrew name was Surah. And what age? At what age, she's not around anymore? No, no. How old was she when she died? I believe she was 84. Okay, 84. Can you imagine what life looked like for Sadie, you know, 84 years ago when she, okay, let's say I went 70 years ago. It's very different. Yeah.

I think about, you know, life keeps moving. Culture keeps moving. you know, think about the technology, it just keeps it even for your granny Sadie, things moved. And then for the next generation, it moves again. I think that's part of life. The only constant thing is change, isn't it? It's just, it's moving and it's changing. And we, I can't control that.

No one, none of us can. And so I think, and there are a new set of challenges, but actually it depends. So we can look at, you know, for example, let's say, for a, technology, social media, blah, blah, blah, it is a blessing and a curse, right? So what can be our only defence on with that? I think whatever happens, whether it's through social media or whether it's somebody, you know, when you're working environment with school, I think if I can install self-confidence, self-worth in our children and in myself, even try example, not perfectly, That is probably the best defense protection.

I can give anyone that I love. Does that make sense? Yeah. Because, you know, we can't control the weather. We can't control what that person is going to say to us, what they think of us. But if I've got a little bit of self-worth, I'm like, okay, I'm all right, just about we're human

and we're not robots. Does that make sense? Just think about Granny Sadie. She needs to go through it. and the next generation will go through it. And so that's just life. Would you be up for a very quick rapid fire? Sure, sure.

What was your mother right about? Probably like French bread is really good. You know, like, Krusty Brothers. Yes. What was your father right about? My father, he was, like, he loved books and writing. And he wrote me a note once. and he died when I was young, but on it, it was like a, it was a little bit of wisdom.

And he said, the path of true love never did run straight. Whoa, just got chills. That's beautiful. You know what I was true. Yeah. Location that promotes your best mental health. I love being by the ocean on the sand, not in it, on it. Like in England where it's cold? Yeah, yeah.

Or any ocean. Well, I do like just looking out at the ocean. It kind of puts it in perspective. If you think there's something greater than yourself and you're questioning what that is, look at the ocean. Love that. Do you have a mantra or any saying that keeps you going? Well, I use the falcon rules.

Falcon Queen rules, they really help me. You know, so have courage. United we stand. Never give up. Make up your own rules. I love that. Who's been your best spiritual teacher? Just life.

when I make mistakes. Moment of best intuition. I think that was one of my, like, when I'm on it, it can be razor sharp. When I was standing in a room full of, like, execs, most of them were male. And they told me that, I was standing by myself. And they told me that wannabe should not be a single. And I said, no, I like it. I like it.

And I couldn't tell you why. Wow. It was very sort of instinctive, childish answer to what I was going, but I like it. And none of them, none of them wanted that record. Wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow. I mean, that's unbelievable. I thought you might have said because you were the first to leave.

I thought you were going to be like, when I left, I knew it was the right thing to do. But I won't answer for you. Yes, okay. Who are you most competitive with? Probably myself. There's no point. I think comparison is like just the root of despair and like unhappiness. But I think it's just compare your, you know, yes, you can just try and be your best self. That's it. And last question. What do you know to be true?

When you stand in truth, your words have power. 100%. It's really, it's such a pleasure to talk to you. I'd like to again remind people. The title is Rosie Frost and the Falcon Queen, can you let people know where they can learn about all of your writing? Where's the best place to find all things you? Okay, so you can either get it from like a book to any local bookstore or Waterstones. You can get it on Amazon. But all of the general bookstores, you can get my latest novel, Rosie Frost. Do you know, I'm quite proud of it.

So, you know, I think it will enrich, I think it will enrich, like, fortify your, fortify you. It's like finding a carriage you've never, you never knew you had and transport you at the same time. Well, it's really such a pleasure to speak to you and just really appreciate your time here. And we recommend that everybody check out all of your writing. Oh, thank you so much. It's my and biolics breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD.

two one fiction more than now she's gonna break down to break down