Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Hunter McGrady: Redefining Beauty, Mantras & Body Positivity

Episode Date: May 4, 2021

Hunter McGrady, the lovely and talented trailblazer for plus size modeling, shares the ups and downs of her career including her journey to be on the cover of Sport Illustrated’s Swim Suit issue in nothing but body paint! Mayim and Hunter discuss the anxiety and depression that both men and women face in response to unrealistic societal body standards. Hunter opens up a dialogue on the important role that therapy has played in helping her to learn self love and build her confidence! She even gives Mayim some mantras to work on. BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is sexy? Like you just said, right? Like, it's different for everybody. Like, for me, I'm like, when you get out of the shower and you're, like, freshly clean and, like, full of shame and guilt that you're naked. That's a new perfume, actually, line that they're launching. Filled with shame and guilt. Hi, I'm My Ambialik, and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to. It's My Ambialic. Today we're going to break it down for you

Because you know she knows a thing or two So now she's going to break down Today we're going to be breaking down Body image Body positivity And getting naked in front of people you don't know Our guest is Hunter McGrady

Who's I mean it sounds weird to say But it's true She's the largest size woman to ever be featured in Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue. She's very, very impressive and interesting. And she has a lot to say about mental health.

But first, let me introduce you to my number one pick for next year's Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue cover Jonathan Cohen. Hi, Maim. How's it going? Have you picked out my outfits?

Yeah, for the issue? Totally. Naked as Hunter McGrady with some body paint. Just the connection. Canadian flag painted across my chest. Jonathan, how are you feeling about your body today? That's a tough question.

It's not something I normally think about in terms of like, how do I feel about it versus how do I feel in it? Sure. How do you feel in your body today? Because Hunter's going to, she's going to set us straight about how we should feel about our body. Well, I feel okay about it because I think I don't spend an enormous amount of time thinking about it lately. I used to think a lot more about it. I used to like want a lot of muscles and I wanted a six-pack and I wanted this and then the other thing. And like, then I got to be a dad and I got really busy.

And then I'm like, who has time for that? I didn't get a vote. Here's what I thought about my body today. I was very self-conscious to expose my shoulders. It's the second time this has happened on this show that I've exposed the shoulders. And if you're only listening in the audio, you can check out her shoulders in the YouTube edition. Check out her YouTube page, Miami-Alex YouTube page and click the little notifications. Honestly, the first thing I thought was if I was more toned, you know, it would look better, right?

It's the first thing I thought. Like, oh, can you see that I have like a, you know, I got a cut there? It's nice, but you can't see, you know, like it's not. And that's the first thing I thought. It's just like that's what it's like, you know, to be me. I'm not going to say that's what it's like for all people or women. I think that's what it's like to be a lot of people. The epidemic of compare and despair, the epidemic of we should have something else.

I should have hair. My teeth should be a little straighter. My nose less big. Like I look at myself sometimes when I'm seeing these episodes back. I feel ridiculous. Well, also, it really does depend on kind of what state you're in. Meaning, if I'm in a good mood and for the women's, we have a monthly hormonal cycle that does literally make you look at the same thing. two completely different ways.

It's not something I'm proud of. Sometimes a relationship can literally look fine one day. And then your hormonal shift can cause you to look at the same thing, feel very different. But that's also how it is with my body. Like there are times where I would feel really good. And then the same exact outfit, same exact, you know, weight, same exact distribution. And it's like, this is terrible, you know. And I avoid mirrors for this reason.

I really do. And even when people do my makeup, especially if a new person does my makeup, they're always like, well, do you want to look and make sure I'm like, nope, it's fine. And it's something that people that I work with know about me. If there's a photo shoot and you have to, like, approve pictures, I'm not the best judge of that at all. Isn't it sort of similar to how no one likes the sound of their own voice when you listen back to your voice that, like, you can't really have a perspective on how you appear to other people? I bet you Hunter McGrady loves her voice.

I don't think that's true. I think it's a scientific fact that no one likes the sound of their own voice when they hear it back. I don't. What science is this? Is this the doctorate you don't have from the university you keep asking someone to give you a doctorate from? Correct. Okay, but I see what you're saying, that there's something about perception and that, you know, the difference in lens. But I do think, because I'm terminally unique, that you need to acknowledge that I have a harder time than most people.

people, and I deserve many gold stars all the time. I just put a little gold star on your chart. Thank you. I would like to introduce Hunter McGrady. Hunter McGrady grew up in Los Angeles, and she was an aspiring model. She's going to talk to us about going from a size 2 to a size 20 and how that impacted her mental health. She was the first plus-size woman to appear on the cover of a bridal magazine.

And I know that she was not the first plus-sized person to get married. There were people getting married who were not the size of the women on the covers of those magazines. The average size of Americans is much larger than a size, too. And so many, I mean, decades and decades and generations of women have not seen themselves reflected. I mean, it's very powerful when you think about it like that. She is the curviest model to appear in Sports Illustrated. She was their 2018 rookie of the year. She was one of the first curve models to walk the New York Fashion Week runways in 2017.

In 2019, she made the stand that she would not attend a single fashion week show or event that was not inclusive, launched her own clothing line. It is fully size inclusive from an extra, extra small to 5X. It is exclusively sold on QVC. It's called Allworthy, which I love. She is a dedicated advocate for body positivity, which I take her to task on in a few minutes. Because, like, to me, a lot of that is lip service. Like, that's how it feels for me.

She's a mental health advocate. She works with the Jed Foundation for suicide prevention. She's recently married. She makes a point of dispelling rumors that women should change themselves for their wedding day with brands such as the Not Brides and Glamour partner. with her. She has started a fitness movement for women of all sizes with her babe body classes. She lives in New York with her husband. And she has worked with such brands as Olay, Revlon, Nordstrom, and Lane Bryant. She's a real powerhouse. And it's really a pleasure to welcome Hunter McGrady. Hello, Hunter.

Break it down. Welcome to my breakdown. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I love you. This podcast is amazing, and I was so stoked when I got asked to be on. Thank you. Well, we've spoken before. I interviewed you for my website, Grock Nation, back in the day. I guess it was right around your Sports Illustrated cover? Is that when we spoke? It must have been.

Yeah. I think it was like literally right after that, like 2017. Yeah. So, and obviously, I mean, it was, first of all, such an incredible significant moment. I mean, honestly, not only in Sports Illustrated history, but in swimsuit history in general. And also, you were really at the forefront, you know, of what we now call body positivity. But when that issue came out, I mean, it was all over. Like, I mean, as it should have been, like the conversations were fascinating.

And you really, you handled it and still continue to handle that kind of notoriety with a tremendous amount of grace. And really, really such a significant, you know, piece of really our culture, you know, and where we are. So it's really, it's so lovely to speak to you. For those who may not have read the article where I talked about you, tell us a little bit, you know, in a nutshell about, like, how you grew up, what your family was like, was everyone a model. Are you all stunning? Or are you like the one who was like, oh my gosh, she's stunning? So it's funny. I hate to say it, but my mom, my grandmother, my aunt, my sister, they are all models, but I'm my grandmother, even, she was like the beginning of it all. I always grew up in the industry. My dad is still currently an actor. He's been the business for 39 years. My mom, you know, was a model and my aunt, my grandma, so I've always been around it my whole entire life. And I always want to. I. I always want to. to do that. Like, I was one of those kids, I think, for like five minutes, I wanted to do

marine biology. And then I was like, I want to do modeling. So, like, right out of the gate, it just, like, started for me. I mean, at a young age. So hold on. I'm going to make, I'm going to totally be this obnoxious person. So I want to know, because I'm just going to be honest, I did not grow up in a family of models. My parents were very attractive. And it was something that people always spoke about, how stunning my parents. My parents were a very attractive looking couple. My dad was more, you know, ethnic looking is what they called it back then. But like my mom was, she was really, really, and she still is. She was beautiful. And I did not feel like I really looked like them in terms of beauty. Because I, you know, my nose and chin grew first.

Like, let's have that happen to your universe. And mostly I was concerned with like, that we didn't have enough money to buy espree clothes, or we couldn't afford a swatch watch, or the Reeboks that I wanted. It was a lot about what we couldn't afford. But to me, that was connected a lot to what I looked like, right? I never would have thought, like, I should be a model. Did you, here's the question.

Did you know that you were attractive? Like, as a young child, were you like, I look great and other people should see me? I love this question. I don't think I've ever got. this question in my life. And I think it's wonderful. And no, I didn't because I definitely had this awkward stage where I had the Hillary Duff bang. I had the braces. I had the hair that was fried blonde. Like I, but my parents were always very uplifting. Like, I could be like, oh my God,

Angelina is so pretty. Angelina is so pretty. And they'd be like, you're just as pretty if not prettier when I'm like, you know, in this awkward stage. My mother says that to me. Yeah, exactly, right? My mother's like, Jennifer Aniston's got nothing on you. I'm like, well, mom, I think she, or people are like, oh, Ma'am, you kind of look like Sarah Jessica Parker. My mom's like, she's not as pretty as you. Exactly.

The truth was, you were stunning, but even with braces you're saying, your parents were like, we see it in you. It didn't matter. I could be at my, the absolute downfall. Like I could like be like right before that ugly duckling phase where it's just bad. And my mom and my dad would be like, you're drop dead gorgeous. And I would believe. I was like, oh my God, I can't believe that. I'm stunning.

This is amazing. They just didn't ever lead me to believe anything else. That's what made you get so pretty as they kept telling you it was going to happen. My parents stopped because I was like, you're lying. And they were like, all right. And they stopped telling me. And here we are. You're gorgeous.

Thank you. Ma'am, you were three compliments away from being on the swimsuit issue. Okay, we'll get to that in a minute. We'll get to that in a minute. So when did you formally start modeling? Okay, so I did modeling when I was a kid. I did some things here and there. And then I just was just a regular kid.

And then a regular gorgeous kid. Just a stunning, more stunning than Angelina kid. And then at 16, I really dove in and wanted to really pursue it as a career. I also already can hear people being like, why are they talking so much about appearance? Because that's a huge part of being a model. And you are an intelligent and articulate person. And there's a lot to you that's amazing and beautiful. And we'll get into that.

You're beautiful on the inside. You're going on to that. All that stuff being said, your chosen career is one that focuses on what you look like. So what was your body like, for example? Like, I was always going to talk about me. Jonathan, what am I going to say about me in puberty? You were a late bloomer. I was a late bloomer.

And I used to be teased, for example, for not having any breasts. Well, we showed them, but I was like 20 when it finally all coalesced. But what is... Such an exaggeration. You sent me a picture recently when you were 16. It's true. You were on a television show. You can't mislead people.

There's evidence. I said I was 20 when it all coalesced. But yes, I was flat-chested. You know, until I was 15 or so. And that is late in many circles. So tell us, though, because you are obviously known and have such a presence for how beautiful you are at a beautiful size. Wow. I need to hang out with you guys more often.

Just to gas me out. What were you like as a teenager? Like, were you always tall? Like, what was the body type in your family? Like, what was that like? I, believe it or not, I would. was also a late bloomer. When I was 16, when I first started modeling, so right now I'm a size 20 and growing, because I'm pregnant, so I'm like, seriously growing. But I was a size two.

All right. That's a very small size. And you're tall? I'm six feet tall. I was 114. I was very, very tiny. And I was gangly. I mean, at the time, I was like, everyone in my school called me fat. So, but, and so I believed I was fat, even though I was look back now, I'm like, oh my God, I was gangly. My, like, my hips, I could shop at Abercrombie and Fitch. Like, that's the kind of tiny I was. Right. Um, yeah, I didn't really, like, the thing is, is for me, I always tell people because I kept getting told by agents and by jobs and stuff, keep, just keep slimming down. Just, your hips need to come a little bit more down. And I was like, I physically can't do any more. Like, I can't go any further than this.

What were you doing? What do you do? I mean, we've all heard stories. But for you, how do you try and essentially stay smaller than your frame? Which is really what, you know, we're asked to do in general in our industry. Right. And by the way, at 16, I had not fully hit puberty. I was still, like, before that stage.

It was, like, calorie deficit and working out hours and hours a day. I was addicted to, like, Cosmo magazine, like, figuring out, like, what do they, like, what are they saying? What are ways that I can, like, lose weight and tone up and how can I do this, especially on my hips? I was always, like, a really hippie person. And I would just do it. I just thought, this is, if I'm going to be a model, this is what it takes, I guess. Did you ever talk to your mom about it or your dad or anyone else? Or it was just like, oh, this is what you do.

It was just, this is what I do, you know, it was kind of like, this is what I see. I don't see anybody bigger. So, you know, you either do this or you better get a different dream because it's just not going to happen. I mean, even I wanted to do acting at, you know, one time. And even then, I kept being told like, yeah, I mean, you're going to have to slim down. Like, you're already a tall girl. So you're really going to have to slim down because that camera adds weight and yada, yada, yada. So it was really, really hard.

So at what point did Hunter become the woman she is now in terms of like, this is what my body wants to be and that's what I'm going to be? When did that happen and what was that like? So I actually, the like last straw for me was I booked a t-shirt job. You mean like modeling T-shirts? Modeling T-shirts. Okay. Like stretchy T-shirts, right? Like just any old T-shirt.

I drove down to downtown L.A. with my mom. I was so excited. I was like, this is it. Like, people at school are going to eat their hat. Like, they're making fun of me. And, like, oh, I'm so excited. I get there. I show up on set, and they all are steering at me.

Finally, the producer comes over, and she's like, we're so sorry. We didn't realize how big you were. No. My mom, who is literally downstairs right now, she was literally like, you are going to owe us gas money, and you're going to buy us lunch.

Like, she lit up on them. And I think in that moment, I was like, you know what? I'm not doing this. Like this is, I'm so depressed. Did they send you home? They sent me home. Yeah, they didn't even give me a chance to try anything on to see if it would maybe fit. Nothing.

That was kind of the end for me for this quote unquote straight size. So I took some years off. I did some therapy. I did some real like learning about, you know, my body, not for. for what it looks like, but what it can do for me. And I grew into my body. You know, 17, 18, 19 years old, I really grew into the body that I was meant to be in. And then at 19, I learned about plus-sized modeling.

And from there, I got signed as a plus-sized model, which I was like, I can believe that. I mean, it still is so new. But like in the last, you know, seven years, it really just started coming about. So I was like, wait, I can like be in my body. and be like comfortable and still do my, like, pursue my dream. This is crazy. My MBialx breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office

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Superpower. Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just $199, but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional $20 off with the code break. Head to superpower.com. Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention my ambiotic breakdown to help support the show. What was the change, you know, behaviorally,

once you kind of took that break and you were no longer, let's say, calorie restraints, or, you know, doing all that exercising. What was it like? I literally had to go to therapy to be like, to like figure out how to like not have this mindset. I mean, it really took a lot of years to understand that like I'm able to enjoy a piece of cake if I want a piece of cake. Like, I'm able to enjoy these things. And I should be able to enjoy life. I mean, it took a lot of self work. Affirmations were huge for me. I started them when I was 16 years old. My therapist at the time, she said, I want you to stand in front of your mirror naked. Oh my, no. Yep. She said, slick your hair back after you get out of the shower, completely naked. I want you to look at

yourself in the mirror. I want you to tell yourself what you want to love about your body. It doesn't have to be what you love about it, because right now it's not a lot, what you want to love about your body. And I want you to do this every day. That changed. my life. I would cry. I cried for, I cried like the first, probably 10 times. Only 10 times. I would still be crying. That cry for me would have lasted 30 years. What would you say? What would you say? I want to love my hips. What would you say? Yes. No, I would start. It's so funny. Can I just tell you when I first started this, I would say things like I want to love my hips. I want to love my arms. I want to love my legs. I want to love my bigger feet, my, my tall frame. It really was focused on the out, like what I was looking at.

And now it's like gone so deep. Now I'm like, I want to, you know, appreciate the way my kidneys are working. Oh my goodness. Like, like really, it truly transformed the way that I looked at my body because I put so much on the way it looked, which was just so wrong. Jonathan, do you have anything to say? I need you to do it tonight, Jonathan. I'm just saying. Oh, my gosh. We're all doing it tonight. Everyone who's listening at home is going to do it tonight.

Yeah. It's something that Jonathan and I do like to talk about, especially here, is that, you know, this is something obviously that impacts and affects women. And I would say absolutely disproportionately. But more recently, we've started opening up this conversation about how it impacts men as well. And, you know, I think our, especially the fashion industry, the modeling industry, has really shifted in that men are no longer just the supporting characters. You know, I used to look at whatever, 17 magazine, and there's always like the dude, right? Yeah.

And he was this generic cis hetero dude with like no body hair, because apparently that's also an ideal. And he was just like that accessory dude that was like supporting the pretty girl. But we've seen a lot more, a lot more men, you know, in the forefront of fashion and modeling. And yes, Jonathan. outside modeling and I don't think it's appropriate or most men don't think it's appropriate to talk about this but there's all like our culture has so much compare and despair you know I'm turning 42 when I was growing up I was compared to my brother my brother had a completely different frame he was shorter stockier you know he's five nine now I'm six two I grew up I was skin and bones I was

afraid to wear shorts I never wore shorts in the summer his limbs were as long as long as as they are now, but just the middle part of him was smaller. You could see my ribs. I never wanted to take my shirt off. I thought, like, being a strong picture of masculinity was him, you know, shorter, stocky, super athletic. It's funny you mentioned that. That's exactly my husband. He's 44. He was 6'5. He is a much thinner build. Now he's more of like an athletic build, but he always tells me he's like, I would like literally down like weight gainers before school. I would like eat like tons of steak and like tons of calories. And he was like, I just couldn't gain the weight. And he was like, I was so insecure about it because I was so skinny,

you know. But so it does. It goes for men too. It's because it's like this, these like, this industry that's like, you have to look this way. It's the only way you're sexy. And it's such bullshit. Well, and also that's, that brings up another good point that, you know, in terms of like being teased for being skinny is a bummer. but it is much more culturally unacceptable to not be skinny. And I think that is more true for women than men. And, you know, people say this all the time. Like, when men lose their hair, it's Jonathan, take off your hat. Show how cute you are.

I don't do that on this podcast. I've never done it before. Should we do it? This is the first reveal of my head. Do it. Okay. Ready? Do it.

There's no drum roll? Oh, so hot, right? Like, guys. Turn to the side. So it's a little bit on the side. I love, though. Little. I love a ball.

Like, listen, I'm here for a bald hat. We won't make you take your shirt off. No, but when men put on some weight, in particular in their midsection, which does happen as all humans age, you know, with men, it's like their clothes tend to allow for it a little more. And fashion's not like, oh, we're going to squeeze it in. Yes, there are manks that spanks for men. But generally speaking, being overweight, you know, that dreaded three-letter word fat, it is one of the worst insults that can be. hurled at you. My children have informed me that fat with a pH is acceptable. So when they say, Mama, you have a fat ass. They say to believe that they are saying pH. But it is very different.

But I guess I'm curious, you know, especially as you entered this world of plus size modeling, there are still, I don't want to say standards, but there's still, you know, categories, right? Like there's still, right. So tell us a little bit about that. So there's something in the plus-sized world called the perfect plus, right? What? And yeah, basically it is like the perfect hourglass, size 14, flat stomach. Your chest is larger than your waist, but you're kind of this like perfect curvy. I see.

Jessica Rabbit. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's the perfect plus. And that's what works. And it's funny enough, when I shot for Sports Illustrated in 2016, I was a size 16 kind teetering on 18. And after I had shot that, my agent at the time said, you need to lose weight because you're now getting into the category where you're not going to work because brands aren't going to hire you. You were in Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue. I was in the press every single

day. I was in like the height of my career. My agents, I told him I wanted to do it. And they were like, that's kind of like the end goal. And I was like, no, I'm going to do it. Like I'm doing it. And she told me to lose weight. And the sad thing is that she was absolutely right. I lost so many clients because I had gained weight. Even some strictly plus size retailers that just sell plus didn't hire me because I was about a size 16, 18. I have so, I mean, that's so many questions. But let's get from, let's get from, so you're doing plus size modeling.

let's just skip straight to you get this opportunity. Were they looking for a plus size? Was this like a thing? How does that come about? And had you taken your clothes off before for a job? So the whole reason this came about was because Ashley Graham was on the cover the year prior. That's right. Which really launched who Ashley Graham is now.

And so everyone was like, whoa. Oh, what? Then I was the second I followed her. And it was like, I think people were like, oh, we're doing this. We're like doing this. So, you know, that's kind of how it happened. And they called me in and they were like, do you want to do this? My very first shoot with them, I was one of the last models to do body paint.

So when I tell you I was naked, I was literally just wearing body paint. Oh, I know. That's what I'm asking. So was that the first time you had been in your birthday suit for a modeling job? Not to that extent where I'm just walking around, but I will say this. I was surprisingly so comfortable. See, I'm going to be honest with you, Hunter. No one wants to hear that because I can barely get naked by myself in my house.

How? How do you feel? I don't, I want to believe you. You seem like a very trustworthy person. Your eyes are mesmerizing. But I don't know that I can believe, like, do you mean you were as comfortable as I am right now sitting here in my sweats? I mean, no, I'm not lounging with my, you know, cooch hanging out going, hey, guys, let's hang. Like, I'm literally like, I was comfortable enough where I was like, I feel sexy.

I feel sexy. What does that mean? What does it mean to feel sexy? Can you feel sexy fully clothed? I feel sexy right now. Do you always feel sexy? I don't always feel sexy. Trust me, I literally, I more often than not, do not feel sexy.

Okay. Is there a mantra for it? Can you give it to Ma'am? I'm going to send you a list. I want to feel sexy. But, you know, I think the thing is, is it's like, what is sexy? Like, you just said, right? Like, it's different for everybody.

Like, for me, like, people are always like, oh, like lingerie and all that, yada, yada. I'm like, oh my God, no, I hate lingerie. I hate all of that. Oh, like I can't. I'm like when you get out of the shower and you're like freshly clean and like full of shame and guilt that you're naked. Okay, so we're different people. That's a new perfume actually line that they're launching. Shame and guilt.

Filled with shame and guilt. So, okay, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to stop you. So you get this opportunity. did you know that it would be the body pain or was there a possibility for like a bathing suit? I had no idea it was going to body. Wait, what? So you show up and you're like, where's my conservative bathing suit?

They literally told me, I think a couple weeks before that it was body pain, which I was like, oh, amazing. Again, if you met my mom, my mom is literally the kind of person where she's like, you, like, I had no reason to believe that I should ever be uncomfortable. I was like, oh, like they want me for a reason. like this is wonderful. I also kind of went into it like I knew that I was going to get, okay, yeah, great photos, whatever. But I also was like, this is not just for me. Like I want women to be able to open this and be able to see like, oh, I can relate to her body.

Because at the time, I was simultaneously like kind of opening up on social media about like body struggles and things like that and like learning to love my body. So it really kind of like collided perfectly to this moment of, oh, this is great. this is exactly what I want women to see. Like a larger body also can be sexy. So they put the paint on your body. I mean everywhere. Was it a woman person?

Was it a man person? No, it was three women. And it took 12 hours. Okay. That makes me feel better. Yeah. Oh, the team is pretty, like, I would say, 98.5% women. Oh, I didn't know that.

Yeah. Very, very women led and driven. Okay. So they paint your body And then you just have to like frolic I mean I've seen the pictures you have to frolic You're frail Can I just tell you something?

You get sand in your lady parts Oh yeah Oh yeah And there's like couples watching me who are on vacation They have but the thing is to the naked eye You can't tell that I'm in body paint You literally can't You really can't

Unless I tell and people still Try to fight me on it and go that is not body paint And I'm like, I was in there for 12 hours as it was. But yeah, I mean, there's couples watching me shooting. And then I'm like literally running around like, everything's kind of like flopping. Yeah, you just said the word running. I don't like to run in a saran wrap suit. Everything moves when we move.

I mean, anybody that has literally anybody that has any flesh, it's going to move when you move. Yeah. And also people forget. And, you know, look, Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue has come a long way. But, you know, back in the day, there were very rarely, you know, also, I mean, in general, in this kind of media venue, often not many real breasts. So the notion that when you lay down your breasts do too is generally true, gentlemen and ladies. No, it's so, so true. And, like, the thing is that it's like, we have come a long way.

Like, I don't know if, I mean, like, yesterday we, there was Lena Bloom, who is the first Asian black trans woman in the issue. Today, you mean Newton Boom, who is the first plus-sized Asian woman in the issue. Like, they're, they're freaking doing it. And they're really one of, like, the few who are doing it. Right. Your turn, Jonathan. I need, like, I need a cold shower. I'm thinking about all the nakedness.

In terms of the timeline, we were painted for 12 hours. Yes. Frolicking on the beach, people watching you, sand where they're sand. Tell us how the rest of the shoot goes. We were literally done in like two hours shooting, which is rare because now that I've shot in swim, they're usually about eight hours long. So we were done in two hours. Wow. And then life became really, really different.

I mean, you were being publicized in a different way. I literally was shooting in Brazil flying back. when it came out. They didn't have any of it on stands in Brazil because it's more of like an American magazine. And I remember it dropping and being on the plane and seeing my Google alerts. Literally, every time I refreshed my email, my Google alerts were coming in and I was like, holy cow, this is insane. And then from there, I literally did press for three months. But also, let's just recap. You're also thinking, I'm so gorgeous because my parents told me, out. My body is amazing. It is beautiful and sexy, exactly the way God made it. And my kidneys

function amazingly. My kidneys are functioning gorgeously. This is what I've always wanted. Was there any time when it felt intimidating to have that much attention, especially on your Nakees? Oh, the whole time. I really had to go in faking it till you make it. You know, I really had to go in acting like, oh, yeah, this is totally normal. I'm totally like everyone's talking about me. My naked body is plastered everywhere. I'm doing interviews in L.A. and New York and Nashville around the world. This is totally normal. I really had to fake it and act like I had been doing this forever. Because I feel like, and I'm sure you can attest to this, in this business, that's almost like expected from you. Right. Like they don't kind of, they don't like really let you ease into it.

Yeah, I was going to say they don't want the interview where Hunter's like, I don't know, people, it's really weird. Like, that's not an interesting interview. Right. Exactly. Okay, now I'm going to ask a technical question. How do you feel about cellulite? Like, do you love it? Do you embrace it? I want to know, because I don't like, I'm not saying I don't like it on you. For me, I don't like it. I don't want it. And people are like, oh, and I got stretch marks on my belly from my first pregnancy. And I have like a couple on my hips. But I saw that someone, you know, an influencer, calls them tiger stripes. And I was like, no, they're not tiger stripes.

They're stretch marks. And I wonder, you know, how much of that for you is kind of like the terms we use around it. Like, cellulite's an ugly word. I mean, I'm just going to be honest. Like, there's nothing attractive about that word. To be completely honest with you, I don't care. There's so much more to life to me than my cellulite or my, like, I've gotten to a point

where I'm like, I really don't give a shit what my cellulite. looks like. I don't care what my stretch marks look like. Let me tell you, every single one of those Sports Illustrated models and every single one of those Victoria's Secret models all have cellulite and they all have stretch marks. And I just really don't care. I don't get that. I hear the words you're saying. I think this is exactly what you need to hear. But this is the thing like, and I'm a scientist. I should know this. There's something different, you know, about your brain and my brain. Yeah. Because I would like to not care. I really would.

You know, and I'm not saying that my goal is like, I want to take my Nakees out, you know, in public. SI, SI 2022. Right. Well, look, I mean, you know, you can imagine at an 8-10, I'm enormous for my industry to the point that it is, I mean, stylists have not been able to continue working with me because it's so difficult, meaning not that I'm difficult, but it's just it's not. They can't dress you. No, they can't dress me. I mean, that's literally it. And so, you know, not comparing.

But I remember, you know, Amy Schumer had, there was a bit about Amy Schumer also being referred to as plus size. She and I, you know, at that time we were the same size. And there was this whole notion of like, well, what's wrong with plus size? And she was like, nothing, but I didn't know size eight was, you know, like just this is also semantics. But there's something different about your brain and my brain. I really want to believe those things. but I don't process information that way. And I also, you know, I also fall under the category of what's called body dysmorphia,

where the actual presentation of my body, it's not computed by my brain in a way that's always accurate. And dysmorphia often centers around one feature or one, you know, facial part. But for some of us, like, the whole thing doesn't make sense. And that's kind of what I get a lot when I look at myself. Like, I don't understand. I don't understand where those pieces fit and what to do. but, you know, we actually did a podcast where we talked about this concept of radical acceptance. And sometimes I think, like, what would my life be like if I just, like, started saying the things that you're saying?

You know what I mean? If I was like, I don't care. Like, I don't know. What would happen? Maybe like. You would train yourself to believe that because the thing is, is like, is that my homework? Yeah, that's your homework. I'm an essential list.

When you get yourself out of it, right? Like, I, to me, I'm like, there's children dying in the world. That's what I care about. I just don't. For me, it's like, yeah, I, I can sit here and then harp on my cellulite, and I could harp on my stretch marks, and I could harp on my rules and all this stuff, which I used to do, by the way, quite a bit. Talk about body dysmorphia.

I would look at myself and think I was, like, huge, and I was a size two. And I wouldn't let anyone tell me different. And now I'm like, I just, I don't have the energy, you know, there's so much more I want to. like really focused on and think about then the way my thighs are dimble. Where do you have rolls? Like a belly roll?

Everywhere, girl. A belly roll. A tit roll. A tit roll? What? Girl, the rolls are like everywhere. What has it been like, you know, getting pregnant, being pregnant,

because that will rock anybody. I mean, it's bizarre to have, and as a person who has had two children and carried them. It's bizarre to. to have a human in your body that's growing. Like that is, that will never seem like anything but miraculous to me that there's a human that grows in your body.

But the things that it does to your body, I mean, are the things that it has to do, you know, to grow. What has that been like for you, especially as someone who's lived with so much attention and focus on your body? Yeah. It's funny. I did a Q&A today and I actually did an Instagram post today basically showing this like super glamorous Calvin Klein photo of me next to a photo where my face is literally puffed up in red

and I had just thrown up my eyes are bloodshot. And I was like, this is both pregnancy. Just so you know, like, I never grew up with seeing pregnant the way that it actually is. Like, everyone was like, I'm glowing. Like, that is just not my reality. For me, it's like, I knew that I had the possibility to not have a baby bump until, you know, the end of pregnancy because of my size. I'm already plus size. I do have a baby bump now. Um, you know, and it's been interesting. It's, it's been, um, I think I look at my body differently right now. I don't look at it in, this is my body right now. Right now, I'm like, this is my baby's body right now. I'm a vessel for this child. And, you know, I, I kept telling my husband when I was like at the first trimester, I mean, I was, I was throwing up.

every single day all day long. It wasn't morning. It was morning, new night sickness. And I was telling him, I was like, I would literally throw up and be like, I'm so grateful. Like, I guess this means it's progressing, right? Like, I was like so, I'm just like, if he, if the baby wants to throw up or me to throw up, whatever it is, like, I will do it. So it's weird. You look at your body in a way different light. The baby also doesn't want you to sleep more than two hours, just heads up. The baby, yeah, exactly. Right. And I'm sure that doesn't end until they're older. Listening to you, Hunter, everything is like framed. You've, you've adjusted that soundtrack to be positive. Yeah. And it's clearly that it's been the result of a lot of work and a lot of conscious effort. But to like,

Maim and I talk a lot about the negativity bias that we have. It's like, oh, I'm throwing up. Why did I do this versus this is just part of the process. And, you know, to hear how you're doing this. that is really quite amazing. Thank you. And, you know, I think the biggest, you know, takeaway is, it's not like I did this work and then I stopped and I'm, oh my God, it's great. It's wonderful. It's like, I do this work daily and there's days I wake up where I don't want to get out of bed, you know, and there's days where I wake up and I'm like, oh, I feel like shit, but I still do the work on those days. I still do the things that I've done since I was younger on those days, even if I absolutely don't want to. Because I just, I saw what my life was like and the way that I thought about myself when I was younger.

I saw what that was going to look like. And I didn't like it. So I changed it. Well, this is a good time to bring up that you are a big advocate for mental health and that your social posts and your activism, you play a huge role. I don't will get specifically that you're an ambassador for a specific institution. But before that, like, there are so many people. There's a ton of data right now,

especially for young women who are on social media and so the use of social media that are having this compare and despair because of our exposed or increased screen time like what do you say to them you know directly because you've gone through this transition you were in that place and even almost in a heightened way because it was your work in your industry and you have come out the other side could you talk to them directly yeah you know i always say social media can be a blessing and a curse it's a lot like we're seeing this like point one of someone's life, right? Like, we're seeing this moment captured. And that's it. We are not seeing anything else that goes on around that. And a lot of times it's altered. And it's face-tuned and

photoshopped. And I would always, I would face-tune in Photoshop as well. It is this like comparing every single day to, for some reason, everyone's always in Bali with like gorgeous, like, fruit baskets with their boyfriends. And you're like, oh my God, I can barely afford food for today. How are they? They're always doing yoga at sunset. set. Always. Always. But, you know, again. That's when yoga is done. Right. Right. With like a, like a fruit plate next to you. Um, you know, or it can be the place where you do follow like-minded people. And you have the capability to really curate who you follow. Like I do a purge of my list like probably once every two months of like, who am I enjoying following and who makes me feel really bad. Right? Like, and I get rid of people. I'm like, this is. the least I can do for myself to get rid of these people that are kind of just living this life that I don't really see eye to eye with. I think it's important to do that, you know, because I can't, we are seeing the statistics. We're seeing people are really falling into this like depression and

anxiety and self-comparing and all this, especially when now that Instagram has gotten so huge. And now there's TikTok and I mean, so much more is coming. So what would you say to people, to people like me who feel, because, for example, I mean, you know, I follow you. I see your, I see your posts. And sometimes what the comparison is, is not necessarily what you look like or what I look like, but it's a tremendous envy of your positivity. And sometimes that can feel inspiring. And sometimes you can hate it. Well, it's not that I hate it. It's like, I mean, it's envy. It's not jealousy, right? It's not like I want what you have.

It's like I envy that you can be that way. And of course, I think like, is there a pill I should say? Like, do I speak to my psychiatrist? And I say like, why can't I be positive like her? And obviously people are allowed to feel different, think different, perceive different. But my hope is for people, including me, to be inspired by that because we're different, you know? And if you're not, I know, and I always tell people, unfollow me. I can't say, I can't sit here and be like, unfollow who you don't want, but not me.

The takeaway for me is that we have to do work in order to tune into what is the content that we're consuming feel to like to us. How is it making us feel? And we have to be responsible for ourselves to not just consume mindlessly. And we have to be able to connect with the people who are going to actually uplift us. Also, I just followed you. Oh, fabulous. Thank you. At least I gained a follower here. The thing is, it's like we're watching TV every day and we're like whether we want it or not, we're being fed stuff. So we have the power through our social media to follow who we want to follow. That's where we have the power, right? And I mean, I think we're hopefully getting into a time where we're seeing more representation on TV. But I think we still have a long way to go. And until that happens, we're still going to be fed a lot of crap. Well, and I think one of the, you know, the things that has changed so much, really in the last, you know, I'd say five, ten years, is seeing people of different sizes, like on television, meaning even people who work in the backgrounds of scenes or, you know, like even in animation. And it's interesting because, you know, I have a production company and we do have a couple animation projects. And I even had this when I wrote my books growing up and boying up because we had cartoon artists do all the art. And it's interesting because, you know, I have a production company. And we do all the art. And

And I remember I said, like, let's make sure we have different sizes of people, you know? And it was like, oh, right, got different sizes of people. And on the show that I work on now, Call Me Cat, like, I really love that we show people of different sizes, like in the cafe. Like, it shouldn't be abnormal because much like all of television was white pretty much for all of our childhoods, especially. you know, like there are different shapes, sizes, you know, types of people that has to help, you know, advance kind of especially young people's understanding of what's, quote, normal. It should reflect the people that walk amongst us every single day in life. When we go into a grocery store, we walk around or we're traveling or our neighbors,

who are those people? If it's not reflected on our screens or magazines or billboards, that's a big problem. So again, I think we've come a long way, but I still think we have a long way to go. Yeah, I think there's still a real tendency also. And then I do want to get back to mental health stuff and advocacy. But I think there really still is a tendency for us collectively to see people who are plus-sized as out of control, unable to control themselves. And I think it was we had Eliza Schlesinger on who said, like, if you think that woman's of control and you can't control yourself for posting on her Instagram that she should die

because she's so fat? Like, who really has the self-control problem? But I think that that notion is still something, you know, and I think shows like this is us, you know, have introduced lead characters that have started a lot of really interesting conversations. And even Mike and Molly, you know, that talked about overeaters Anonymous and things like that. But I love how you said it. It's like we should see the people who walk amongst us. This is something that essential to do because the harm of not doing it is taking people's lives and putting them in jeopardy. You and I both have done work with the Jed Foundation. It's a really beautiful organization that aims to increase mental health support for students before, essentially

before they get to college, which is when we're seeing a lot of the impacts of a lot of mental health things that have been overlooked and can often lead to suicide. Did you, have a particular, you know, reason that you wanted to work in that kind of arena or, I mean, you're an advocate for mental health in general. So, you know, if there's any sort of messaging or anything you want to share with us, you know, our audience would would love to hear that, you know, from you as well. I deal with pretty severe anxiety and depression. And I think growing up, it was hard for me to understand that sometimes like depression and anxiety is situational. and sometimes it's quite literally a brain imbalance.

So, like, I'm also an advocate. Like, if you need to take medication, take medication. If you need therapy, go to therapy. Like, I think therapy is the best thing in the world. I think even if you don't think, I think if you're completely fine, still go. Because there will be something you'll, yeah. Or ask the person who loves you most if you're fine. They'll probably tell you you you're not.

I'll bet you'll have an answer for you. Yeah, so, you know, I had always dealt with it. But, again, I never saw it talked about. always felt very alone in it. And I felt like, because my sister doesn't deal with it. My, you know, my family, like, doesn't really deal with it. So I never really, like, none of my friends dealt with it that I knew of. Um, and so when I kind of was, you know, kind of got this new, like spotlight on me. I also was like, this is also something I want to tackle because I don't want someone else to grow up and think that it's weird.

or shameful to deal with depression or that there's something wrong with them because they have this. You know, I don't see it as something wrong with you. It's just, it's an imbalance. It's like if we break our leg, don't we go to the doctor? You know, if we have a headache, don't we take Advil? Like, you know, and I think it should be thought of just as simple is that and nothing more. And I think that we need to talk about it so that people don't have that shame behind it. And they don't feel like they have to hide it.

And then it gets to a point where there is no return. You just described my nakedness issue. Yeah, right. I have to hide it. Their shame gets to the point of no return. But yeah, so when the Judd Foundation, they had actually asked me to come to that gallows, which is where I met you. And I had done some research on it. And I was like, whoa, this is like really crazy because I have been looking for an organization to kind of support and kind of

microphone and talk about and it just fit for me because I know that during high school, I mean, I was bullied so much. I ended up being taken out of high school and homeschooled. And I had so much depression and so much severe anxiety. I wouldn't even like, I was just, I wouldn't want to like talk or be around anybody. So I saw the importance in that and especially at that age. And they've been an amazing partner to work with. That's wonderful. Before we let you go, Hunter, do you think you could suggest your top three to five favorite affirmations, please? Yes. Okay. Take a few breath. I'm ready. I always, so now my whole thing is, I am enough is my first one because I also have imposter syndrome. I think that it's, I'm never, like I'm always like, no, you're enough. I am enough. I am worthy. I'm trying. I'm enough. I'm worthy. Okay. I feel like we need to start with you. We need to go back, though. This is like, okay, let me tell you something. There is a book called I literally have it over here. It is like, it's not even a book. It's these, it's called Love Powered Co. It is affirmations on cards. You can flip through them every day. I'm telling you, get it, Ma'am. I will send it to you. I have no affiliation with them whatsoever.

You should. I should, right? I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. said, I didn't think about that. Okay, so those are cards that can give me ideas for affirmations. Yes, and you can start with things that you truly like, you know, I mean, for you, it, you know, it sounds like your body. Like, I think that's a good place to start. It's really all of me. It's all of me. It is so helpful. Trust me. Okay. Do I pick one body part, is just the whole thing? Do the whole thing. And I know you've got a scientific brain. You probably, of all people know how much go, like when you,

you tell your brain one thing, right? You start to believe it. I've been telling it bad things for a long time. It believes it. Okay. All right. Hunter, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for joining us. And I'm going to put you on the spot because we're starting a series where we invite people's mothers to come to talk with us. And you told us that your mother is downstairs. So she doesn't have to come now, but we want to have you back on for a shorter episode. My mom would come on. A hundred percent. And you guys would probably invite her back to be a staple because she's hysterical.

Oh, goodness. All right. Well, that's our offshoot series. But thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it. And you should have a safe and beautiful and healthy pregnancy. And I look forward to being of service if you're interested in learning about breastfeeding. I'm a certified lactation educator counselor.

I will be taking you up on that. Did you like my friend? I did. I just made a call to Sports Illustrated. They're going to do a neuroscience edition. Well, I guess I better start those affirmations because it's just going to be cellulite and stretch marks and a little belly roll. You asking where the rolls are.

I just wanted, I knew she'd have a funny answer and she said, tit roll. She tolerated us very well. What I really wanted to ask is like, what's it like to be separated? She's beautiful. I mean, you could fall into those eyes. Also, you made me take my hat off. That was very uncomfortable. You know what?

If she can take all her nakes out on an island somewhere where I don't know where it is in front of people, you can take your hat off. Also, she was into that bald head. Some people have a fetish for bald heads. Jonathan. She was faking it until she made it. That's not part of my mantra. My mantra is everyone loves a little. bald head. I could give you a few more. I really, I did really want to get more into her discussion

of anxiety and depression, which, you know, I was kind of like piecing it together in my head. Like, I think that kind of started in that break that she took, you know, and it sounds like what happened to her in high school, you know, I mean, being six feet tall is not easy, especially for a young girl. One of my very close friends, her daughter is six feet tall. and she's, you know, I mean, she's been that tall since she's about 13, 14. It's very hard to be that tall, no matter what size you are. It's hard to be that tall at that age. Your limbs don't kind of work.

You kind of flop around a lot. You kind of, you have to grow into your body and understand how it works. Yeah. And I really do not understand how brains can be so different, right? I feel like what. Did I not go to enough therapy? Is that the right kind of therapy? Like, is that a goal that I need to say, like, I need to feel that good about my body?

Well, you can explain neuroplasticity to us, and we've talked in the past about carving new grooves. It sounds like she's extremely deliberate about carving grooves and cutting out the noise or negative thoughts. It sounds like, this is not to say that my parents were not supportive and loving, but there's something about, the way she was raised. And also like both of her parents, I think, are also very tall, you know. So like she comes from, from tall folks. And then I also think about like, you know, there are certain things when you're attractive that are just different than if you're not. And everyone is beautiful. Everyone absolutely. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. All those things. But by sort of generic standards of uniformity and attractiveness. Like, that's a person who's very attractive. And so a lot of

things happen differently for her than they do for many people. What I like about what she said is, number one, the work she's clearly putting in a ton of time reframing her experience. And the other thing is she was talking about the functionality of our body. Again, back when I was in an earlier teenage state, I had a lot of legs. You know, I was tall, but like they were, 90% legs. And I was really uncomfortable about my proportions. And I was working with the therapist. And she made me do that same exercise.

She would like, tell me what your legs are good for. And I was like, no, there's nothing that I liked about that again because I was comparing them to my brother. And we kind of, she just kept pushing, pushing. And she kept making me find the positives. And one of the things that I found was that during the summer, I would take kids on canoe trips. and to take them on the canoe trips,

you have to carry the canoes on your shoulders with a yoke, and you're walking, you know, Canadian, very Canadian of me. I'm walking through... That's so Canadian, everything you're saying right now. The woods. And the one thing that my legs were really good for was stepping over fallen trees with the canoe on my head, and I could, like, clear those fallen trees

much better than my shorter friends. And sort of like, that was the beginning of me being like, oh, there's some advantage to how I've been put together. Well, and you're a basketball player also. So you have the ability, also to make the ball go places in between those legs that other people, you know, can't. I mean, when I watch you dribble, like, I just, it wouldn't go that way. My arms aren't long enough.

My legs are like, you know, there's things that, anyway, we could talk. We could have a whole episode about what your legs are good for. The point of my story there was you have to find that. You have to come at it for yourself and own it. Because I think if someone else tells you what it's good for, then you can reject it very easily because it's like anything else someone says to you versus you own it. But I think I'm the meanest to myself of anyone, though. So it's like you're asking the person who's the most critical to find the best thing.

I will say that having... That's why it works. That's why it works. You have to make the most critical person turn around and say the positives because you're only going to believe it from you, not anyone else. But let's or not at all. Let's also talk about that as a woman person and especially as someone who, you know, I was very athletic. I mean, my whole life, literally, essentially until I got pregnant. You know, I was a racquetball player.

Like, I played angry, violent, loud sports where there was a ton of sweating and, like, contact. And, like, you know, I was a, I did Brazilian jiu-jitsu in college. Like, I was, like, often the only girl in the weightlifting room. Like, I lifted. Like, so when you then. What did you press, bro? I'm not, Sally. Then when you, it's my shoulders.

Look, they're poking out of this shirt. This shirt was not supposed to be like this. Just kidding. If you're watching on YouTube, you know what we're talking about. No, but when you have a baby in your belly, like, it completely changes. Your center of gravity changes. The distribution of your weight, your muscle tone. Evolution's a little bit like, oh, you don't need any hormones that help build muscle. You need to grow a human in your body and then make milk to keep them alive. And also, you're going to have to carry them. And oh, we're going to give you really heavy babies. Well, you need muscle to carry the baby so they don't fall on the floor. Right, but that's different than like your triceps and like all the cuts that I used to have in my calves and like that really nice muscle in my forearm that I worked so hard to get with all those wrist curls.

You don't follow the moms on Instagram who use their babies as weights to... You do, and you're always like, look, she looks just as fit as when she was a competitive weightlifter. And I'm like, how is that helpful? And that speaks to what Hunter said. Like, I'm talking to you, Cohen. You follow people on Instagram that I cannot imagine would make anyone feel good. It's like, here's a body that literally only comes from working out with a trainer for hours and hours a day and only eating a very small amount of food. Let's do an ask my name anything. Ask my am anything. Yeah. Hi, my name is Jonathan. My name's Darren. I've been enjoying breakdown a lot and I can especially relate to Bill Prady and his experience on the autism spectrum. My question is about

imposter syndrome. I'm a professional writer. I've been grappling with this pretty much my entire existence from the time I was a young student through my career now. I don't know if it has to do with anxiety in general or living on the spectrum, but I know a lot of people experience it, but I feel like it's just not as talked about, especially in the creative fields where it can be almost seen as some taboo of having your own self-doubt. So my question is, as a neuroscientist or from a neuroscience point of view, or even anecdotal, what is the catalyst for imposter syndrome? And how can we help ourselves out from getting into these spirals and ruts and still being able to like, you know, do what we do? That's a pretty terrific question. Also very well articulated.

I can see why you're a writer. People who have imposter syndrome, just also to kind of like define it a little bit. It's estimated that, you know, upwards of 70% of people at some point in their lives will experience aspects of this. But there are certain people who really resonate, you know, in this imposter syndrome arena a lot. People with imposter syndrome believe that they don't deserve their achievements and the high esteem in which they are held. So a lot of people think, like, oh, imposter syndrome's like, I feel like an imposter because I shouldn't be here. But it's actually a much deeper concept of feeling undeserving, both of what you do and then the praise that you receive because of it. Imposter syndrome also involves feeling that you're not as competent or smart

as other people think. Remember when we started this podcast and I said in the introduction, I have almost everything that we're going to talk about. You're just collecting stuff. I literally, no, I've known like, oh, I have imposterous. I've never thought. about it in terms of this. Sorry, I might cry. Like, I pride myself on telling people that I was the dumbest person in my neuroscience doctoral program. You say that a lot. Almost as much as I say that I was a late bloomer. I also, people with imposter syndrome, often attribute their success to things like luck, good timing, or effort that they can't regularly expend. Like, Oh, well, I only did that because like, whatever.

I pulled an all-nighter and blah, blah, or, you know, meaning like that was an exceptional expression of me because it's not the normal me. Sorry. Because the normal me is not that person. You know, and I like to say, you know, my whole career has just been luck. So, okay, I have imposter syndrome. Thanks for pointing it out. Imposter syndrome, I do think is in particular,

We do see it in our industry and in the creative industry because the process of analyzing what's good in art is completely subjective. I mean, it is. It's completely subjective. So I like to point out, you know, especially when people talk to me about like, well, I don't know if I'm really a writer. You're a writer even if you never publish something if you're a writer. You're a writer even if you don't get the notoriety that you think. you should get that doesn't take away from your abilities and your passion. And what was your question, your follow-up question about imposter syndrome, Jonathan? Well, it was about self-doubt,

and I just connect with this question quite a bit. I spent close to 12 plus years in writing workshops, and every single time I sat down to write during those time periods, I thought this is pointless, this is crazy, what am I doing? Part of that is more motivational, and that gets into sort of like fear of success and fear of failure. But two of the features of imposter syndrome are perfectionism and neuroticism. And that notion of not doing it right and also just having general anxiety, being generally neurotic, is going to contribute to that. You know, the thing about imposter syndrome also is it's a mindset, you know, that takes time and effort to chip away at. You know, I like to give myself a break and say that, like, I don't have to fix all the, you know, strange or difficult

or clinically diagnostic things about me. I need to treat the ones that are kind of the most pressing and potentially the most dangerous to my health, meaning if I had a drinking problem, we typically treat that, you know, before, you know, before imposter syndrome, right? You treat the thing that is potentially most damaging, you know, in the short term. So this is a large one, You know, this is a large one to tackle. And, you know, this is a perfect opportunity to get into some good therapy. And this is a case where cognitive behavioral therapy also might be really helpful for something like this, because you really are just trying to replace negative thoughts with positive ones is kind of the way that we move through imposter syndrome.

And decreasing overall anxiety will also make this much less prominent. That's been my experience as well. So there you have it. Thank you to everyone who has been submitting. Ask Miami anything questions at biolicbreakdown.com. If you have a question on mental health, go to biolikbreakdown.com. B-I-A-A-L-I-K breakdown.com. Ma'am, anything else?

I think that's it. From my breakdown to the one I hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's Maya Bialik's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One, fix you more. And now she's going to break.