Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Iliza Shlesinger: Be Skeptical, Not Cynical

Episode Date: October 11, 2022

Iliza Shlesinger (comedian, actor, writer, producer and author) returns to the podcast to reveal the solutions to her somatic pain, the changing cultural sensitivity toward comedy, and her approach to expressing anger. She discusses the origins and process of her observational and inclusive comedy style, new motherhood, and the epidemic of online hate, especially toward women. Mayim and Iliza break down the difference between being skeptical and cynical, the risks of consuming negative news, and the dangers of materialism. Iliza's new Netflix special, HOT FOREVER: https://www.netflix.com/title/81485998 Iliza's new book ALL THINGS ASIDE: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/all-things-aside_9781419759406/ See Iliza on Tour: https://www.iliza.com/tour Check out the cool original music from @TimaLikesMusic featured in Iliza's new special: https://www.tiktok.com/@timalikesmusic?lang=en BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you see a girl out in the wild that you don't like, you don't like her body, her face, I've got great news for you boys, you do not have to have sex with her. There is no law. The Bible does not say it, the government does not. You do not have to have sex with her. It is your body, your choice.

How's that for a concept? It's my ambiolic's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. Because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to... Hi, I'm My Ambialik, and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break things today. so you don't have to.

We have a friend in studio today. Someone that actually is a friend of mine. Yeah. I'm not talking yet, sorry, it's a secret. You can totally talk. We have Eliza Schlesinger here. Hi, Eliza. Hey, guys.

Usually, before I introduce our guest, I introduce this guy. We're out of practice. My elder millennial. That's true, I am. You are an elder millennial, Jonathan Cohen. I thought I recognized you from the meetings. Technically, I'm actually one year...

How old are you? I'll tell you. I'm 79. Oh, you're not an elder millennial. He's 79 years old. 83's the cutoff. I'm sorry. I thought it was 80. No, you are Gen X, but like baby Gen X. He doesn't feel like Gen X.

I know. I'm young at heart. I'm sorry, we're not the same. My favorite baby Gen X are Jonathan Cohen. There we go. Yeah. We are very excited to have Eliza in the studio. this is also our second time speaking to Eliza.

We very rarely have friends over. We very rarely have friends over more than once. I know. He told me it's the first time you've repeated, double dipped. I think besides my mom. Yes. Thank you. Speaking of moms, your mom is also in the room.

My mom is also in the room and not like in a spiritual way. Like she's right here. I actually want to, let me plug the thing because like right off the top, people are like, it's Elizers's Lysinger and there's two things they need to know. Very excited. Two amazing things are happening today in Eliza's life

and our life because we get. get to bathe in the golden light that is Eliza's special day because you have your sixth. Yeah. Sixth Netflix special, which comes out today. It's out. What's it called? It is called. Oh my God, what's it called?

I told you what I wanted to call it. What did you want to call it? I don't remember. Drowning Caucasian. Drowning Caucasian. Which I think a lot of people would like for terrible reasons. True. It is called.

It is called Hot Forever. That's the first time I've actually said it. Hot forever. Hot forever. And it is called Hot Forever. There's two versions of this. Tell me. There's the version where I'm like, look, because this material's hot forever, it's evergreen,

I'm going to be hot forever. People hate it when women have confidence. She's also opening and closing just the top part of her hands. Okay. But the real reason that's called Hot Forever is because the material was like fire. Like it was awesome. And the name was not coming to me. And there is some science to the name you pick and people clicking on it, you know.

And I didn't, you know, you want to do a. serious one like revolution but people don't want to click on that and it can't be so there's in hindsight there's all the science to it anyway i was texting my i have the text i was texting my manager and i was like man this special has to be hot fire and because iPhones are going nuts lately it auto corrected fire to forever and i just said oh my god and she was like that's the name of the special i love that's the name of the special so hot forever is out also if you haven't seen the other Netflix specials of eliza i highly recommend urge well i urge yeah to witness, I mean, evolution's not even a good word.

It's the constant elevation, I think. No, I'm very, very excited. And that comes out today. And also, you wrote another book. I did. I loved your first book. I know you did because you wrote the foreword for my first book. And I meant it when I said how much I loved it and you.

I'm so glad I'm friends with you. Your second book is called Great Title, All Things Aside. And also like a double entendre. and it is also coming out today. Girl Logic, The Genius and Absurdity, was your first book. And this is, how would you like, I have read the book.

I know you like. I would never. But how would you like to lie to you and be like, how would you like to describe it? All things aside, it's all things aside, absolutely correct opinions. And it is a collection of personal essays.

I was reading a lot of books that are personal essays prior to writing this and it inspired me. I was like, this doesn't have to be a thesis like Girl Logic was, nor am I totally qualified, but why not just write? There's no real through line other than this is commentary on life. And at the time, I guess 38, but now 39, mid of and 37 when I started writing it. And as a mother and just having come this far in life, I felt, you know, why am I not

qualified to call like I see him? It's not like I'm 21 and just firing off opinions, which is fine too. That's what stand-up is. But I was just like, if not me, if not me, when? If not me, who? Well, and the neat thing about all things aside is, and I say this as a compliment, it doesn't feel like a comedian wrote a book. Thank you. It's like a real, it's like an author wrote it. Okay, well, let me say it as I said. I used real words. Okay. Okay. I used real words. Well, look, everybody has their particular taste and flavor in what they like in their stand-ups. I happen to like you. Thank God. Thank God for me. But one of the reasons, though, that I do believe your comedy speaks to me in particular is that it's not really about

jokes. Meaning, things are funny. But things are especially funny if you are, are an astute observer of people and things and places. And so that's what I feel this book is also communicating. Thank you. And also, you've had a very, very, I think, very exciting last few years. People actually got to see you also acting in like a full fleshed out role. I mean, the Mark Wahlberg. It was a big, it was a big, new, it's been a big new part of you.

And I love that this book is showing you are an intelligent person, you are a thinker. you also happen to have a very, very funny way to interpret the things that you experience. I appreciate that. And a big part of why I wanted to write this, you know, there's this desire to sum up encapsulate my experience thus far, but also my attempt at speaking for my generation. Now, before everyone, you know, smashes down on that cancel button, you know, you can't speak for everyone all the time, but there are, I think I'm very good at generalities with our generation and certain vibes and stuff like that. And so the book touches on nostalgia. My generation's take on it in particular. And then there's personal stuff. And then there's just, in hindsight, looking back on growing up.

And I guess I always come from the perspective in my comedy. If I'm thinking this, chances are other people are too. I don't think it's what I think is so special that it's like, no one's ever had this thought. So all I'm doing is giving life and color to the things that people think but do not say. And that's what the book is. What's the earliest instance in your life that you remember having that skill? Oh my gosh. Think but do not say.

Let me think. It's probably making some teachers life miserable. Who was an idiot? The things that people are not, I've got to think of, that's a great question. Well, I guess I'm wondering, you know, like I was, I remember being called bossy in preschool. You know, like it was, okay, but I was, whatever. I'm just saying very early on we tend to have those things. But I wonder, did it, if you have any memory of it kind of feeling like that, like,

you understood things that grownups didn't in a different way or... I think it's less about the understanding because understanding, especially these things require hindsight and perspective, but it's more knowing that there's something else going on here. And that goes back to just being a sensitive kid, maybe to a degree in a lot of performers are like this feeling left out. So you're seeing what you're not part of. But deeply knowing, even as a child, I'm not included in the cool thing, but I know I'm not

a loser like those kids. But I get that they're not seeing me as cool, so I'd rather do my own thing. And I think those are the makings of a comic. But just sort of knowing like what's what, this person's an idiot, don't listen to that person. And sort of, it's not about even being bossy, but just sort of knowing like, no, I'm just as funny as you.

I'm just as smart. And never gendering it. That's something that we've done a lot lately as girls are becoming more, more empowered, which is great. But growing up, it never even occurred to me that I should let a boy speak over me. And it had nothing to do with, I'm a girl, girl power.

That was not a part of the conversation. It was just this thing that was in me. I'm like, I'm funnier than you. I know I'm talking, you know, and having zero capacity for other people's bullshit. The way right gives an amazing window into your brain, which I was actually going to say that it's probably a detriment for her, how her brain works in real life. Like, you go on so many amazing tangents, which is how my brain works. I'm just like, I'm here, and then you're circling and coming back. And those are brilliant to me.

Thank you. But I would imagine that's a hard, if that is how your brain works all the time, that must be exhausting. It's, you know, okay, so it is because. That's how my brain works too. You don't act that excited about when my brain does that. It's like, well, like when Eliza does it. It's like, I'm going to try to new things. I mean, my brain is on high, like 24 hours a day.

I woke up this morning to a Jessica Simpson song from 2003. Why? Why? And I cannot get it out of my head. It wasn't even one of the big ones. And what was the association? Because you just kind of like, go. It's just, it's constantly.

Her brain is always going. It's hard because you're constantly examining stuff and reexamining and thinking and you're just always going. And sometimes you're like, that's good. I should write that down. And so in all things aside. Sometimes you tell your friend I am to write it down. What?

Sometimes you tell me to write it down. Write it down. If it's funny, you got to write it down. She said it down and we write it down. You got to write it down. You got to write it down. And so for this, you know, the term in comedy is called staying in the pocket.

So that is when like you come up with a premise, right? The bad pitches. I'm going to, I've got this one uncle who is, oh, he's the worst, right? And that's funny to be like, yeah, we all got the bad uncle. But then you go into the uncle and you describe everything and his habits and what those habits, and you really dig into something. And that's when you get into the specificities. And that's where you get into the heart and relatability.

Because that's where people are like, oh, my God, I've met that guy. Oh, my God, I've been to that exact type of house because you're taking it for all it's worth. But then you go one step further, which is where I think, The brilliance comes from because you, like, go to that next two or three places that most other people can't go. Right. So it's called all things aside because I wrote it, like, physically, when you look at it, there's this regular font, and I have the bones of the essay. And then, it's like, on stage, if I hadn't aside, I'd be like, you know, like, I hate going to the mall.

Actually, full disclosure, I really hate my body. That's why I hate doing. Exactly. So it is a different font and it's double indented. So because I hate a footnote. Because I think it's a pain in the ass to scroll the bottom of the page. Remember where I was? Read this footnote about the thing that I don't even remember now

and I've got to reread the paragraph. And it works. The secularity works. I appreciate that. And so it's just like a little, it's like we say something structural and then we do a little dance and then we come back. And in those you get to find the tangents and you get to find. Do you think you're going to have more tangents in writing than in stand-up?

Yes. Because people will get annoyed. Yeah. Like there's nothing more so when someone sets up something and you're as the listener, you're waiting for that conclusion. You're like, get back to it. But I will say, and I don't know. I mean, if we could find out what gene of yours it is.

Okay. I mean, for me and my brain, there's a, there is a perfect level of tangent that makes you feel like you're getting a richer experience. Yeah. But for me, it never goes too far. It's fine balance. It has to be balanced. Absolutely. But that's, but that's, it's like, I mean, it's its own symphony, right?

You know, there's a lot of editing and there's a lot of rereading. I'm like, am I annoying myself? And I think back to some of the books that I was reading while I was doing this and how masturbatory writing can be. And you get a lot of, it's not a gendered thing, but I do see a lot of writers that'll be like, you know, talking about growing up and it's unremarkable. And then it's like, and by the way, my aunt, I mean, she, and you're just like, why do I have to? And you're skipping paragraphs because people, and I wrote about this in the book, people's memories are so rich to them. And they make them feel so good. And there's the serotonin release when you.

describe a memory and you're like, you have to be so gifted to convey it in a way that people lean in and want to hear that. And I don't think people do self-editing a lot of times. And my biggest fear is that people are bored while I'm speaking and that comes from being a comic. So you keep it moving. You keep it specific. It's never about just hearing yourself talk. Quick aside. And a plug to the last time you were here. If people haven't heard that episode, they should check it out. But you were having like some serious physical issues when we spoke last. Oh, my God. I bring this up because we track a lot of about somatic issues and we like did a deep dive.

The pain the body holds. And we did a really like big exploration of the somatic process you went on. How are you? Oh, thank you for asking. I did, I always, this sounds like snick-or, like I did heal myself and it's like just by this. I did the McKenzie method for stretching the back of my neck

and these are exercises that I come back to time and time again when my neck starts to throb, mostly from texting. And a lot of times this hurts and I think it's just part of. just science tidbit. So you're the nerves that go to your arm and hands are actually in your neck. They're in your cervical spine. So my C4. C4 usually is where people, yeah. So and it's just, you know, it's just being a homo sapiens who's standing on two feet and texting all day. Yeah. So anyway, but that's the neck arm. It was excruciating. I wanted, you know, having your arm and your, you think it's your arm because you don't know because before you get it diagnosed. So I fixed it,

thank God, but it is like a sore thing for me. But you do, so you do body positioning, basically, McKenzie method and things like that. It's to learn to appropriately position, right, the soft tissue and the musculature and yes. That's way too advanced. It's just me constantly doing this one exercise. And I do Pilates. After I had my baby, I was like, when can I work out? You know what?

Before you say it, I'm going to work out. And then I hurt myself. I just, it was really bad. So when I was cleared, I immediately started doing Pilates. And I think I have, I think I look better than I did before the baby. and I just, I was like, look, this time's going to pass regardless. So I started doing like two or three times a week. And now my body like wants to be tall and long.

So it still hurts. It's the other side now. But I do try to do things to mitigate it. I try to lay down or I try to not. I mean, we could all check our phone a fucking lot less. Yeah. I'm disgusted by it. But it's something that I'm hyper aware of now.

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Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just $199, but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional $20 off with the code break. Head to superpower.com. use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention my ambiolic breakdown to help support the show. I do have a question because, you know, obviously, I mean, so much of your comedy, you know, has focused on, you know, some of the particularities of gender and sexuality in a lot of ways as well. and the expression also of our generation, my generation, your generation.

His generation, not my generation. The expression in particular of desire, mating, you know, the things that we do, mating and dating. The things that I thought about before I was married. Right. So what you've done also, and I think, you know, it does really speak to the kind of longevity that you deserve as, you know, a performer, is you didn't, you didn't kind of have a jump the shark special, for example, when you got married. What you did is you took the same lens that you've used to examine everything and you used it to examine your own self and your own process.

Sure. Right. And so this kind of next phase is you also, I really didn't know what to expect. I was like, is this going to be like, these are all my baby jokes. Which is what I did not want. Right. but but I think what's so important is that you you absolutely give you give props to this role in your life absolutely and it it feels very organic and nice and good but I love that you basically now have

taken being a mother as your new perspective but it doesn't always have to be about the baby thank you and I really I think that's what spoke to me also as someone with you know a 14 and you know 17 year old it is part of your identity and also you still have this entire other identity that the women's movement and the progress of the last 50 years has given us the ability to have but it doesn't have to be one or the other and I think you really, really, you showed like,

I'm still funny, I'm still smart. Like I don't just need to talk about remember when I got thrown up on because that's the equivalent of like, men are so stupid, my boyfriend, right? So speak a little bit about sort of how you thought about that. There are women who find so much comedy in being moms, and that is valid. That is your experience.

And one thing that we need to do is women is be okay with whatever your experience. That's you or as a human. Right. Okay. And if, look, you got ticket sales. People are laughing. It's valid. Right.

A couple things went into that. First of all, while I'm writing the special and I'm touring with it, you know, I'm pregnant. I'm not a mother yet. And then once I had her, this is a little baby. And I'm not the mother of like, two. two toddlers. So I'm not in it in the way that other mothers are where you can get into, my kid said this word. Right. You know, I also, full disclosure, and I'm okay with this. I am very okay with this. I have full-time help. Right. So my experience, the way I experienced my child

is a lot lighter than if you are, and of course I give all the credit in the world to people that do this, if you are at home with your baby, if you are the one getting up early. So I can be like, Yeah, when your kid throws up on you, has that happened to me? Sure. But that's not where my heart is. And so my experience is, I also think of it as very precious. I do not post pictures of her online. And that has less to do with, I mean, no, because it's a sacred thing. Is she funny looking? Yeah, she's hideous. And I didn't want people to see. But it's this, you don't have to be famous for people to be intrusive or for bad things to happen. And so that's something that I'm able to control. And I think of she's, she is my grace. And so she's not, we're not here.

I'm not offering her up. If it's something funny. And I also feel that way about my husband because I'm not married to an ape. And I'm not married like, he only reads baseball sports. Like I don't, we have a really lovely relationship and it's this sacred sweet thing. And I don't want to, maybe one day. Maybe he'll do something one day or, you know, or she'll do something that I, you know, but in this moment,

I still believe I have better things to talk about and I want to help women and I want to help people and I want this to be a fun experience and I love the inclusion. You cannot, if you are talking about your mom jokes, that is great. And moms and dads might love them, probably moms more than dads,

but you're alienating women who maybe don't want to hear about kids, women who are younger. Like when I was younger, I didn't want to hear about eggs, you know, miscarriages, menopot, Like you're not at that compartment, at that part of your life. I can't wait until you hit perimenopause. I can't wait either.

Because I'm going to talk about it. Oh, yes, you will. But right now. It's 10 years, Eliza. Just letting you know. I always thought that was a Canadian term. My friend says perimenopause. That's what it means.

Yeah. That's what they call the 10 years of hell. Before you apparently become the person God intended you to be. So first we're geriatric pregnancies. That's right now. So it's just a lot of that went into that. And there's so much going on in our world. and I just, as a comic, you don't stop being observant just because you've had a kid and you're just so different.

And there's, so that all went into this special. And this is, I polished this for, I threw out an entire other hour because of the pandemic. Like, nobody wants to hear about the election anymore. And so it's a process. I just pretend the government doesn't exist. Well, they know you exist. I wanted to ask a question, not about the censorship of comedians, because I feel like there's plenty of people talking about that.

That's not what we do here. However, this is something that, for people who have been following your career, you've been treading in these waters, I think, for your whole career that I've known of your work, meaning the things you're, quote, not supposed to say, the things you're not supposed to think, the ways that we're supposed to behave nicely, we're supposed to build up other women. Like, all the we're supposed to's, I feel like you've been dealing with this stuff for years. I guess I'm curious, especially in this climate, what is allowed to be funny still for you? I mean, for me, for everyone, look, if it's funny, it's funny.

And I really believe coming from intention and coming from a place of love. And that's what comedy is. You know, you're making fun of yourself out of wanting people to laugh at you so that you feel good. You're making fun of someone else, you know, from a place of love because I made fun of myself, you know? So I think people, I talk about this on stage a lot, I think comedy has been hijacked because stupid people got a microphone and they started saying hateful things

that had no real merit. And I know that this is, we're circling around the whole trans thing. Here's my God's honest opinion. And I also feel this way about like Holocaust jokes. Like you want to make a joke. Sometimes a joke is well written. Someone makes a joke about someone taking off a penis, whatever.

But in general, it is people are doing it because they're hoping that they will get a social media hit. They're hoping people will be like, oh my God, and they made a trans joke. I really feel it doesn't move the needle and it is hurtful because you're taking a group of people who have done nothing wrong, who only need advocacy, who only need protection, and you're using them as a punchline with no, there's no, it's all, it's not even that it's malintent as much as there's no intention, which is harmful. It's just as bad as inaction when we need action. And so it's not mindful, really. It's not mindful. And by the way, like, do I love a good

Dick joke, sure. Do I say words sometimes or the audience is like, maybe don't say that. Sure, you're all going to make mistakes. But these jokes, if you were a trans person in that audience, like you're going to feel like a freak. If people are talking about your body and that process, you're going to feel so bad.

Now, I can't help if I say something on stage and someone takes umbrage with it because it was a specific, I made a joke one time about a girl having a hump that she needed to wash before she left the bar and this woman reached out and she's like, my son has a hump. You're Like, well, fuck me then.

Like, it can't be anything. People will find fault with it. But in general, it's kind of a, you're trying to do no harm. We're trying to hurt the bad people. You know, sometimes there are jokes that I don't think are funny that poke fun at me as a Jew or me as a, like. And the difference, I think, between sort of me and my teenager, as I learned about it, was that if he doesn't like a joke or finds it offensive, he wants to turn the whole thing off. Okay.

Because that's, because that's this. You shut down. That's, you feel bad. And that's his right. Right. However, he's still under my roof. So what I did is we would pause. And this is what we do when we watch all stand up.

When we get to a thing that feels like, ugh, was that? We pause and we talk about it. There's such a changing sensitivity in terms of not just what, you know, how we get offended, but what we do when we get offended. And like I said, for me, I can say, Dave Chappelle has two jokes in that special that are, I think, poorly written and speak poorly of Jews and group us with Israelis, which not all Jews are Israelis. And I remember, I was like, that's just I don't even, but I was able, and I think it's just whatever it is, I was able to say, I can still keep listening. I can still

find the things that makes sense. And like, that's something, I mean, that's the nuance, you know. That is, and, you know, it's that thing where it's like, you have a right to turn this off, you vote with your dollar. You don't have to go see that comic at this show. I, I'm, And I think, you know, we're very quick to want to cancel things. I also think we are very quick to be very sensitive about our own group, but then everyone else can be thrown to the wolves. I think we are suffering from a lack of context. And we are also suffering from myopic wokeness, right?

So it's like, my group's got to be my thing. It's no different than when you go to like the Orthodox section of Fairfax and an Orthodox Jewish guy comes in his van and parks in front of you. And you're like, I got to get groceries too. He's like, me first. You know, like my mission, people think their mission, their group, their religion, their color, their race is the most important thing. And we're all feeling the same thing.

Bad things are happening to everyone all the time all at once. And it's not that you have to bleed for everything, but we have to have a little bit of grace and space for having these conversations and advocating for other people and ourselves as well. One of the things also, and it is one of kind of my favorite bits, about the people who feel the need to write heinous things about an image that they saw. Why did I lean into burp?

literally burped into the microphone. I leaned in. She's very comfortable with us. So the joke is, and I don't mind spoiling it, it's, you know, the amount of hate that women have to contend with online and the amount of vile things said to us, regardless of if you're famous or not, like, ask any woman, and she will tell you about a DM she got, you know, just low-key, simmering, misogyny, or sexism, or just creepiness. Like, cold or beautiful. It's like, but you're so gross. Like, you see that it's just, we're good. And then the anger that, comes with a rejection or the God-given right I think a lot of people men feel to comment on a woman's appearance calling her fat gender color whatever and the things the vile things that are said to

a very passive woman she's like check out my outfit and it's like you're a fat bitch right and so my message to the guys is and this is for anyone that is hurting so much that you have to pay that pain forward to a stranger guess what if you see a girl out in the wild that you don't like you don't like her body, her face. I've got great news for you, boys. You do not have to have sex with her. There is no law. The Bible does not say it. The government does not. You do not

have to have sex with her. It is your body, your choice. How's that for a concept? You don't have to patronize her business. You don't have to support her. You don't even have to acknowledge her existence. In fact, we wish you wouldn't. All that we're asking you do is take your probably very small finger, score right on by. Do you know the impact that would have

on our mental health if voyeurs weren't just teeing off in a negative way. And I say these things, and there's a couple of other, what I hope are impactful messages, and I say them because this type of misogyny

that gives way to very violent actions in real life, this is rampant. And there are a lot of men who are facsimiles of one another on podcasts or with shows that are saying horrible, that are giving out like actionable items for inflicting pain on minorities,

Jews, women, trans people, whatever. And young men are listening to these things. And I'm like, well, where's the girl? I don't need to be a revolutionary. I don't think I'm made for it. I'm not even positive how the government works. But what I, I want, I just want to be as loud as I can be to say, hey, this isn't working on me. And I'm protecting these girls and these people. There's an article recently that talks about the rise of loneliness amongst men and their inability to have relationships because they lack basic emotional skills. Oh, I'm laughing because there is one joke that I did.

It took me a back. What was it? It was a gene pool joke. Oh. My Darwin joke? Well, the Darwin part, you know I love. People are like, Darwin joke, tell me more. The gene pool notion was, it's hard for me to even say it because it is, it's a rough concept.

What is it? the concept is if nobody wants to be with you. Oh, yeah. And do you want me to say it? Sure. It's just simple. It's simple genetics. I know. The concept is if you cannot find a mate, your genetics die off. No, that's not fair to say.

Sure. But whatever somebody's... What? No, I don't know. What? Shy? You can be shy and I make an exception for that. I'm like, this is not about... I love men. Especially the hot ones.

Like, I love... I have a love for men. Like, I had friends that were boys growing. Like, I feel very included with that. And I like speaking to them. This is me saying to the men that would seek to hurt women because they feel entitled to a sexual experience or energy. You're right. I generalize it and that's not what you mean.

There's a reason you're not having sex. And it's not her fault. It is because the bar is set so low. You can't go out and grow a beard. You can't get a cool tattoo. You can't do anything that makes a woman pay attention to you because you think they should just come. to you, there's going to be no more of you, because you've done nothing

to attract a mate. On a basic animal level, you've got fish that have a red beard, and then the girl's like, red beard, I love it. And those that don't have the red beard, don't have fish. You know, the red bearded fish. That's also the thing,

is you're like, just be interested, just be interested or interesting about anything. You could be tall. And for a very for a small part of your 20s, that is enough. You can wear A fun outfit. I know that that's like a peacocking thing that we all, like, whatever, but you just got to, and because it isn't as if all women are these brilliant, complex, gorgeous creatures.

Get you. I'm like, go get you an armadillo. Some women are incredibly just normal and plain. And maybe you are too. Water seeks its own level. Tens go with tens. 3.5s go with 3.5s or 4s. This is just science.

I'm just saying like, you can do this. I mean, here's a great example, I think, of what a lot of people. fall into when they hear a joke that hits them the wrong way. Because what I thought is, I might cry. I mean, it's not an episode if I don't cry. No, what I was thinking is like, I felt really, like, alone, like in high school. You know, like, I didn't. Blah, ble.

I know, you're going to be like, but you were on TV. It didn't matter. No, I wasn't going to say that. Okay, good. So, and then I think of like, gosh, you know, like, I got married youngish. I mean, I was young and I had, you know, my kids. And then, like, I got divorced. And then it was, like, I was like, I was alone.

And it's going to be lonely. And I was like, is that because I'm not supposed to find someone? Let me say this. But again, that's where I went in my head. But let me say this. So what you're illustrating right now is another flaw that we have, you know, as humans, you know, you were triggered by that. You felt sensitive. But I do have caveats when I set it up.

I say, we're not talking lonely. We're not talking. You're a little shy. But it is very human to not hear that part and to only talk about the part that hurt you. And I design the joke to make those exceptions up top, but I designed it to be pointed. because I'm so angry on behalf of people like this. And to be fair, in high school, you are not trying to procreate. And you did procreate.

And you have a self-esteem thing. Meanwhile, you and I've had plenty of candid lunches and drinks. Lunches? Lunch in a lunch. Our first date was a lunch. And, you know, at some point, you know, I think it's also a girl thing that's inculcated into us. Like, I guess on my podcast, people are all, like, girls are always like,

I'm 21 and we broke up. I guess I'm just not meant for love. I'm like, you need to watch. less fairy tales. You'll be single at times and at times you won't. Or if you're super hot like me, you're always dating so much. Always. Can you talk about anger?

Sure. I can yell about it. It's one of the things that is least acceptable for women to be. When I watch your specials, when I, and yes, I watch them, just sometimes just for kicks. I'll revisit an oldie but a goodie. I love that. Or even when, even when, even when. I watch Big Bang on the plane.

I go to play all the time. My mom watch Big Bang too. Even when I read your book, all things aside, out today, I play this little game. I only do this with the Lysersh Lessing. I've never done this than anybody else. I picture what it would sound like if I said those things. And I try and like picture myself like, what if I said, what if I read? It never works as well as when you do it. And then I start like going down the rabbit hole. Like, well, why? And what's the difference? But one thing that I do really admire about you is you are able to convey anger in a way that makes people uncomfort. comfortable enough because you ought to be angry. And, you know, I think you're sharing a lot of injustice. You're sharing a lot of, you know, a lot of things that people are not awoken to. Oh, I think it's a lot of things that women don't say. Right. They feel. That's all. But talk about kind of how you approach anger because we've all seen comedians and especially female ones. If they seem too angry, it's like everybody's like, you know, she's, you know. I think,

I call it digestible feminism and there is an art like whatever your cause is let's say you love Israel if you get in someone's face and you scream about Israel not only they're not like you they're more prone to probably just not like Israel

if you prove so if you embarrass someone they're not going to want to hear you and so I will never get on stage unless you're into it I will never get on stage and say things like the word patriarchy. I, you know, and like, right ladies, like men are idiots. Because I don't believe that.

And I also believe in order to have your cause address and to have a revolution. You need allies on both sides. You need allies that don't look like you, you know? And so that will help do that work and that believe in what you're saying. And I believe there are so many, if we're making this about men versus women, I came up in a world and I can stand up with all men. And comedy was a lot of men. Of course, there were women too.

but I don't believe that the men in my life and the men that I choose to associate with and I believe there are good men out there and those good men are in my audience and nobody likes to be lumped together. Nobody likes to be told, you're idiots, you're the problem. And if you're going to do it, there's a spoonful of sugar. And you're speaking to people who willingly bought this ticket

and as a performer, this is a business. Nobody bought a ticket to be preached to and told that they're a piece of shit. You can do it like in a cute way that's like kind of harmless, but then you tee it up and you say something impactful and I'm always mindful of making sure I don't lose the men because we need you in this cause. And I want women to feel empowered,

but I want men to feel that they can be part of that. And I want them to feel like, hey, I can protect my own from this type of thinking and these types of guys. So I want that inclusion. And that is across any issue, sociopolitical, religious, whatever. you want people to want to be included so that they hear you. If I get on stage and I'm like,

let's topple the patriarchy one tampon at a time. There are just words that men tune out on and I'm not trying to generalize, but some women do too. Yeah. You know? And so there is an art in the words that we choose. There is an art to this joke writing and that is where

the skill and the science of stand-up come in. That's why a lot of people try it, but very few people are good at it because what are the words that I'm that's keeping someone engaged without losing them. These things deeply matter. And your message, that's why I call it digestible feminism. Well, and I wanted to actually ask something I don't think we've ever really talked about,

and I hope that you feel comfortable talking about it even with your mom here. Deep penetration. I'm sorry. I want to know how you see yourself on the gender spectrum, as it were, because a lot of the things about the way you talk kind of fall under what a lot of people think of is like, she's kind of like a dude,

like she's a dude, you know? But you also, you're also very strong while you are thin and shapely. It's actually very important to you that you be strong and look strong. You have a fantastic set of jokes that you do. I thought you said of abs. No, you do.

Lovely abs. Lovely abs. But, so you're very, you're very strong. And you have a, you also have a lot, lot of athleticism to you that many people would say no but I'm thank you thank you but I'm saying like when you when you punch it looks like you know how to punch you know how to punch you know I'm saying like if you're working out what you you wouldn't I've done what I mean sure okay don't put your thumb in the okay okay you break it great and on the other hand you know how to be an adorned female as it were

you love to celebrate the things that you love about your body and you also you don't dress up, you wear makeup, you like hair, I believe there's some sparkly things in your hair in this special, right? Oh yes. Oh yes. And you're not afraid of liking jewelry, like things like that. So how, I'm kind of asking this because also with the anger, like things that typically like we don't like women, where do you see yourself kind of gender-wise? Like, do you think like, gosh, I'm kind of a masculine lady? Or do you just feel like that's you? That's so funny. I guess I've never thought about it and I think we I guess I never thought about it because I was just kind of like whatever it is you're going to like it and I think this is me personally no just dudes I think this is so a part of the

conversation now you know growing up we said tomboy right but it was never a tomboy and I'm like oh am I a lesbian it was just you know and then you have a body but you're like oh I don't know I'm am I comfortable with it and then you know you're teenagers you're wearing whatever but there's a confidence and just like I know I've got a good body but I don't care if I show it off all the time and it's just some days you're dressed like this you know some days i don't wear makeup a lot just because i deeply don't care but when there is an event you know we're in show business that is how i choose to present myself it is okay to not do that you know at the end of the day for the most part people will weigh in but like nobody actually cares and that's like a big mantra for mine you

know of mine like i don't care if you see me out at the grocery store and i don't have makeup on it's like she looks tired i'm like okay well we're not sleeping together like i deep I completely don't care. And part of that comes from being married because you're not hunting for that mate. You're not trying to find that. So there is you calm down a little bit with that. And I don't feel the urge to do it as I once did. And that's not saying that if you're a mom that does do it, it's right or wrong. But I think we have a problem with hearing one woman's affirmations. And then you're like, well, that must mean that I'm wrong. Do whatever you want. I don't care. So I think of myself and the strong label is something that was applied to me later. And I think about my mom who, The parents got divorced when I was seven, and she had a job at an office, and she did everything she could. Is she a bitch boss? A boss bitch. It's disgusting. But she had like a real job with a receptionist, and, you know, she, and then eventually she married my stepdad.

But in that time, she was a single mom. But there was never a conversation of like, I'm a single mother doing it all. Wow, what a goddess. I was too exhausted. Yeah. She just sort of sustained and maintained, and it's only later that we're given these labels, But I think leading from that example, like she had, she did the landscaping and the gardening and did so many things. And it was never, I never heard like a complaint about it.

It was never like, watch me. Watch your mama. Here I go. She just did it. And so I think we like to now be like strong, single mother, which you are. It is hard. But I think women are these strong creatures that sort of move with grace and intention and purpose. And if you want to label it fine, but she's doing it anyway.

You want to call me strong? You want to call me brave, you want to call me a noise, whatever. It doesn't matter because I'm not going to stop doing whatever I was doing because it brings me joy. And that's how I felt about the outfit I wore. And that's why I had tinsle in my hair because I took a page from like raves and it goes to like the artwork that we're using. In my perfect version of me, I have so much hair and a giant ponytail.

And it's got all these fun colors in it. But it's understated because they're pastel. So it was just like us hovering over all these like things. hair that I bought from Amazon. I'm like, not this one. Take out the red. Do this one. And I wanted it. I found those pants that you like. So was that two pieces? It's two pieces. Okay. I really thought that it was one piece. Yeah. It was a tie between that top came in lime green as well. No. And it looks cool. That's a top that needs to be. It was a black. And I love wearing all black. Exactly. I feel very powerful in it. And I also feel very understated. Just to remind people,

Hot Forever is out today on Netflix. We recommend it very highly as well. well as all things aside. Yeah, load up. Do we need to tell people where to get that? You just, you go and one. Where do you get books? Obviously, if you can do a smaller bookseller, that's better. But we all know how voracious we are when we want things, when we want them. So you can order them.

Got it. And I would also like to plug one small thing. Please. The song that we use. You wouldn't know this because you don't really hear very long. The song, the music. I had a question. Tell me about that. Okay. So there is a girl named Tima. and she, I don't know how I came across her on social media.

She's this girl. She's a young black creator, but she would, you could tell she's a musician. She understands music, but she was making very funny songs about like how I'd rather break my back before I, I'd rather break my back by carrying all my groceries rather than make two trips. And so I started following her because I thought, I thought what she was doing was cool. And she were, and I reached out to her and I was like, if I ever get a late night show, I want you to be like my music person.

And I was like, great. So see you never. But so we just, whatever, online friends, whether she knew me originally or not. And then it came time for this. And at one point, you know, I always had music. You create music for this. So I reached out and I was like, will you make me a song? She's like, of course, because that's what she does.

But she had a song called Pay for My Food. And I actually play it because I don't think it's illegal to play it. And I love the music. It was very, I love like 90s R&B. And it was very that. And I said to her, why don't we just use that song, but give me some personal lyrics about like party goblins, which you can't really hear because you're in a big room. So she made it. It's very catchy. It actually, it struck. I thought that I knew the song at first.

Yes, because it's that 90s armbisa. Yes. And I was like, what is this playing? That's really interesting. And that's really nice to elevate another woman. She was, she came to L-A. We had a brief meeting. She's super cool. And she made it. And so it's on there. So I want to give her a shout out because the song is cool. T-I-M-A-L-K-E-S music. That's sweet. But the thing that I wanted to really shout out was if you watch the special, this is very sad for me, if you watch the special to the end, you know,

the credits roll for like a minute. There's not that many. I dedicate the special to my makeup artist who died. And his name was Mahfood. And I didn't make a collage. I'm like, we'll just do one picture. But he did my makeup for my wedding.

He did confirm kills. He did unveiled. He did elder millennial. And so it was just my makeup artist for this was great. Everything was great. But, you know, there's the people in your life that you don't realize how, much they meant to you until they were gone.

So it's for you my food. Yeah. Very sweet. Have a question. Bye. No, it's not really a question yet, but there's a line in your book at the end of, I forget the section, but I wrote it down. It says almost everyone is lying to you almost 100% of the time. That was a hard chapter.

And everything is a scam. I mean, that line without context is probably a little bit hard for people to digest. Because it's so real? Because it's so truthful. Big fat truth pill. It's the button at the end of a powerful chapter, and the chapter is all about how a lot of things that are presented to us are, in fact, scams.

And you pay it off. You prove all of those things are not what has been promised to us. That line signifies a level of perspective on the world that is like maybe to speak to like, is that pervasive in your interpretation or your like filtering of everyone you interact with? I mean, it's a little hyperbolic, But I think part of it is living in Hollywood and this industry where people do lie, where people will look you right in the eye and be like, absolutely, I can't wait to get started. And then you never hear from them again. And that has less to do with someone being bad as much as people not knowing how to give feedback because people can't take criticism. So if you read my book and you hate it, you would just rather say you didn't read it because you don't know that I'll be open to hearing about why it was bad because everyone thinks what they do is perfect and precious. And I think especially coming out of COVID,

and especially with inflation and especially this climate that we're dealing with, we are consistently lied to and you are made to feel bad if you don't take it on the chin. Like if I buy something and it's wrong, where's my forum to say this isn't right without being told that I'm annoying or I'm loud or I should be grateful, you know? And this goes across social issues, political issues, but industry-wise, you know, one of the few basions of power you have is your daughter. And so when you pay for something, I take that as someone who has made all my money on my own. I take it very seriously when a company promises me something.

And it goes wrong. And I think a lot of people bullshit. And this is a bad example. And I'm saying this in front of a wall of your immigrant relatives. But I will say this. You ever talk to someone when they talk about like their grandpa? And this is in the book. They're like, my grandpa, he was the smartest man you ever met.

And he could build anything? And you're like, was he? Could he? Probably not. I think there's like a rose colored tint that we applied. of things. So I always feel that people are recalling things just a little skewed. And oh my God, it was the best meal I've ever had. And you look and on a lighter note, like you watch like social media and I watch like food

influencers and it's like, you guys have to come down here. Honestly, these eggs were amazing. I'm like, were you amazed? Were you sitting there like, holy fuck? We just. We just had this with my mother and that freaking veggie burger. I'm sorry, but that veggie burger wasn't that good. I mean. But she's going to tell it like and so I think. It was the best veggie burger she's ever had in her life. So we get there, I'm like, do you have a veggie veggie burger? It's not really on the menu, but we've got some hungry planets in the freezer.

Yeah, yeah. I can get that at Carnies. So I think it's also opening people's eyes to, if I say everything's a scam, maybe you'll start to question a few things that are a scam. It's good to be a little skeptical without being cynical, you know, and so not only like I talk about the alarm company that failed me in such an epic way that a stalker was. allowed to just be in front of my house. So that was cool.

But also just perception of value, you know, and I talk about this in the book, but like everybody's trying to sell you something. You go online and it's like, I'm sorry, why is this sweatshirt $300? And there's nothing, you know, and she's like, it's our softest yet. I'm like, what?

Like, yet, you're around for a year. And this constant deluge of product and information and you can't all be quality, but people want to charge you for quality. And I think we're seeing we're living in this sort of era right now where everybody wants everything. Then you want quality. And it's like you got to pay for it and everything else is going to be a facsimile of. And so I think a lot of people are being lied to about what matters. And it's not that everybody is not that I have like perfect priorities. But I just I think the world deserves a little

bit of like, hey, everybody like take it. You don't need that. You don't need a $400 sweatshirt with the matching thing from this like it's just a lot, a lot of materialism. And as someone who's constantly to downsize and I'm constantly disgusted with myself at stuff that I have that I'm constantly trying to get rid of because the planet's on fire. I think it all goes back to environmentalism. And people are also, like, they lie to other people because they're in pretty deep disconnection from themselves. Sure. You know, we're caught in a cycle of everyone trying to, like, figure out what they want and need,

and we're being sold what we think we want to need. What you don't need are 10 products from Amazon you need right now. No, that is plastic garbage. You don't need it. What you need is therapy and a walk outside and to like figure it out, not to just buy a bunch of stuff that's delivered to your house in like an air conditionless van. It's just we're constantly consuming. Maybe you need more things to manage your sleep, Jonathan.

Oh, you're talking to my husband. I can't. Why can't you sleep? My husband, what I have, after watching several TikTok videos, as I understand it, it is a spike in adrenaline and help you need to regulate your cortisol. So we've been told if you eat like, this is funny. He's like if I eat a fatty, people say eat a little fatty protein snack before you go to bed. So at like 10 o'clock, no, it was like, it's time for my shrimp cassidia.

And he got in bed and he was eating like a turkey bee jerky. And he was like, there's no time to brush my teeth. I got to go to bed. I mean, he did. So he's working on it. But liver, I'll tell him to go to an accident. How long has this been going on? His whole life.

His whole life. Yeah. I don't wake up with him. He's not in the bed. He's been up for a few hours. He's lived a whole life. So he wakes up at three and then stays up. and he stays up and then he'll take a nap like way later.

And his whole life it's been like this. I think that's what he says. What's his sleep hygiene like? Oh my God. I don't know what that means. You should live with her husband. Yeah. Because he'll talk about it all day.

Well, is there something that I need to know? Yes. There are many things you need to know. I can't. Also, if you haven't, and you're listening to this, check out the Andrew Huberman episode because he goes deep into this. I'll load him up with all of this. I just want him to sleep.

Look, there is a playbook for, the body that most people don't have. And we're doing things in our days in the morning and in the evening and throughout our day that are impacting how our brains understand what time it is and what to do next. My name doesn't believe that this exists, even though we've had many scientists come on and explain that it is in fact real science. And so this is where she and I have a little bit of conflict that I believe there are things that you can do that can help you sleep better. Sure. Like?

For example, not have, like. You do masturbate four times a day. And you've got to be consistent and it has to be in front of people. There's scientific evidence. Your exposure to light. Sure, sure, sure. Circadian rhythm setting that. Setting that.

I just think because it's so consistent. Oh, he wasn't done with his list. But okay. We'll get this off off the pod. There's other places. This can be delivered. But the messages like when people are having that type of problem, is it psychological? Is it biological?

Is it a combination of both? And Mime's perspective on sleep used to be, it doesn't really matter. I don't obsess that much. I don't sleep that much. Some people don't. I heard that Martha Stewart sleeps like four hours a night. Some people don't. My rabbi too.

I need a nap in the day. I don't drink coffee. Which is normal. He thinks it means I need to have more energy. You know what I said? I'm 46 years old. I'm on my third sitcom. I have two children.

I nurse for six years straight. I deserve a nap. You deserve a fucking nap. I don't need more energy. I think this ties back to pace. I think about this with my 14-year-old who basically is listening to something or trying to watch something at all times

unless I'm like actively taking him out to do sports. And I think about a generation of human beings that have grown up with a phone in their pocket who have no downtime, no quiet whatsoever. they fill every single minute of space. Sure. And I think that's a very dangerous relationship. It trambles your brain.

Yeah. I get in bed, I talk about it in the special, and I try not to do this, but it is like an addiction. I get in bed and I'll watch TikTok. I was a little concerned when I saw that. There is a vanishing caloric density to consuming TikTok. So when you eat Doritos, the reason you can keep eating them or like lays, like bet you can't, it's so evil.

They're like, bet you can't just have one because we engineered it. chemically so that your brain forget you had one. So that is what is so biteable about TikTok is you keep scrolling. And each thing you're like, I got to know this. I got to know Anne Boleyn's favorite dessert. Someone's going to ask me this. I got to know about Native American property lines. Like I got to know all this stuff.

Some of it is super interesting and useful. Most of it is drivel. But you keep scrolling hoping for that hit for the next one. It's not unlike, you know, doing a slot machine. And I'll do it, I'll do it, and then it'll get like some of the information will be scary or sad. and I wake up feeling a little hungover. Like I wake up feeling like I ate a bunch of junk food. My brain hurts.

I gave up. I mean, I take it off my phone for periods of time. Yeah, I gave up. It's been, well, by the time this airs, I don't know if it will still be on. But after the, you know, variety of shootings that occurred around July 4th, I like, I hit my limit. And I was like, I can't. We're not meant to consume this. Exactly.

And even the positive stuff. It does not enough. Exactly. And that's what I realized. If I see an adorable animal, my next thought is, I bet they killed it. Oh, you guys are with a humpback whale? I bet you fucking murdered it because people, that walrus Freya, who was in Norway, they killed her. Anything cute, I guarantee you ruined its habitat or you killed it.

And I'm going to explain to my daughter what a whale is one day. Because it'll be gone. Talk about yoga. Well, when we're, I mean, it's painful. It's really painful because that's true. I recognize what you're saying. There's not enough good news to counteract the deluge of bad news. And then we're programmed to want that input.

So when I, for example, notice of myself, when I start my day and I'm scrolling, then the next thing is when I try to stop scrolling, I have this itch. I'm like... Yeah, it's an addiction. What's going to come next? I need an input of some kind. And so, like, how many people can literally sit? I mean, not talking about meditation.

I'm not talking about... Just sitting. Holding your body in a pose. I'm like... unplug and don't do something. We sound old. I don't disagree with that and I'm not a big fan of like mindfulness

because those videos are just like, I journal, I have a matcha. It's like, no, you fucking don't. But I am mindful in the morning. Mostly I sell attractive fitness clothing. That's what, please click on this. I have my phone on airplane mode when I sleep. There's no, the baby's in the next room.

I don't need the phone on. And I don't look at it. I brought up my, I brush my teeth. I have the coffee. I try to have some light in my eyes. I try to do like an hour of just not, we don't need it. There's nothing that important.

I really make an ever, to do that and I'm one of those people that like doesn't listen to anything in the car like a psychopath I just drive in silence so I try to that and then when I'm with Hunter who tours with me I try not to just scroll I'll just stare out a window I try and I certainly don't do it around people and if I do if I catch myself I'm disgusted but it is like a practice and when you're really engaged you don't need it like if you're with you're friends and everyone has their phones down you don't want to be the one checking your phone do something to say my no no you're just going to stare at me Mm-hmm. Okay.

Or sports. Like, it's nice to work out for an hour and you're, you know, of course you want to get back to it. I try not, I try my best to not just endlessly do it. You got a purpose. You can look at something. But if you're like in a dentist office, yeah, scroll away. You've got a delayed flight, scroll away. Is there anything else we can talk about besides your Netflix special, which comes out today? Your book, All Things Aside, which comes out today, which we recommend very highly. Besides those two?

Yes. And Tima. She does a great job. So this is October 11th. I've got, we're finishing off the back in action tour, back in action from COVID, even though I toured during COVID. So this is October 11th and you live in Mexico City. You can come see me, I think it's October 28th or 29th in Mexico City.

Hopefully the ticket link is working by now. And then I'll be in Asia. We've got a couple of other dates. Do you take the baby? I'm not going to take her to Asia. Simply because it's so many cities. And that's hard even on an adult, as I saw with my husband in Europe. And then Australia.

How was he sleeping? Europe. I mean, I can't even imagine. He was so sick. I am seven months pregnant. I am drinking coffee. I'm working out. I'm walking everywhere. He's like a husk of a man. I felt so bad for him. And in like some of the best places, you know, like Copenhagen. And I was just like, you can't take us anywhere. I just felt so bad for him because when you're sick, like you can't. And it was undiagnosable, like a weird cold, not COVID. Anywho. The rest of the tour dates are on eliza.com slash tour, but the new ones are coming out for next year. I always like to leave with a little message of hope. So who wants to take this one? If you think everything is a scam, how do you find a little hope in this world?

I find joy with genuine connections. And you cannot genuinely connect with everyone and not everybody vibrates at that same frequency. But your world will be a lot better if you can tune into and avoid low vibrations. It doesn't mean someone's bad, just low vibration. And really connecting. It doesn't have to be about trauma bonding, but just clicking with people. And this is. isn't about like have a smile for everyone. But like, even if it is unifying against someone else in line who's being a dick and just like a little exchange, I love being reminded that while everything does feel like it's on fire, there are good people out there that are

like on your wavelength. And I love people, except for the bad ones. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's my ambiolyx breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One,

she was and now she's gonna break down