Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Iliza Shlesinger: Hurts to Be Awesome

Episode Date: January 26, 2021

Mayim breaks down how our overall stress can have real physical impacts and Iliza Shlesinger discusses being a female stand up comedian among men in her profession, how we as a society struggle to communicate, and how her hectic work life caught up with her in the form of debilitating nerve pain. This plus lots of jokes on Ep 3 of the show! BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There's such a reward now for being a strong woman, and every woman's like a kick-ass rock star, mama, bitch. My mother is like, I was going to work. I just remember, you know, there's this built-in confidence with some guys. Like, of course I should be talking. I'm tall. And I just remember thinking, like, I know I watch more comedy than you. I know I write more comedy. And I know I'm funnier.

You're doing this, but you're going to go to medical school. And I'm going to do this for a living. So get out of my fucking way. Hi, I'm Biallick. And welcome to my breakdown. this is the place where we break down the things that make us break down. It's my ambialics break down. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two.

One fiction. And now she's going to break down. Today we're going to be breaking down holding the things that we hold. We're going to have Eliza Schlesinger on today. I've done Eliza's podcast and she's a stand-up comedian and she's a writer and she's an actress. And she's a very, very organically fun. funny, very smart person. And Eliza's going to help us talk about holding two opinions at once, holding your own, holding your ground, and also the things that our bodies hold in terms of

stress. She's been dealing with a very interesting, really, really debilitating amount of pain. She's going to talk about how that relates to what she holds. So before we get to talking more about holding. I'd like to introduce the Ernie to my Burt Jonathan Cohen. Hello, my. Actually, we kind of do have an Ernie Burt look about us as well.

I'll go with it. But I tend to be more the Burt. I think you're more the Ernie. They're different. Do you know the difference? One's taller. One has a point to your head. Do you not know the difference between Ernie and Burt? I know they take Bads together. It's not weird. Nothing wrong with two grown Muppets taking a bath together. Bert is kind of grumpy, more of the introvert,

and he likes pigeons and he wears saddle shoes, and he's kind of quirky, and he's always scolding Ernie. Now it's sounding more like you. I'm Bert. I don't know, I think. I don't know. And Ernie's more of like the playful, like he likes a rubber ducky and... That sounds like me. That's what I mean.

Yeah. But you're also always scolding me. Playback the tape. There's no evidence of that. Jonathan Cohen's usually responsible for what we were calling housekeeping, he doesn't like that term. I don't know, not because it's gendered, because you're a very competent, in real life, you're a very competent owner of your own home.

I like to cook, I like to clean, like to tidy. And you're good at those things. I practice. But you don't like those in terms of what we do here. So I suggested that you are our Zamboni operator. And I suggested I'm smoothing out the edges of your life. Would you like to Zamboni? Usually in this section, we encourage people to subscribe to the podcast.

We also hit that up at the end. So I've been thinking that we're going to change it up. People know that if they want to help us and they want us to make more of these, they should subscribe. They should go to our website, BIA, L-I-K, breakdown.com. Where you can ask Maim anything. Yes. You can also get fantastic resources and information, everything that we mention that is scientifically related

or is a book or article we reference there. I claim that it's the best podcast website ever created. I don't know how you can do that. It's not a scientific validated. So you said usually we do that. But then you said we weren't going to do it, but then you just did it. Well, old habits die hard. You kind of edged me in there.

The reason that I know Eliza Schlesinger as a friend is because I stalked her. She says it wasn't stalking. But here's the story. I had a relationship that it was the significant relationship that I had right after. I, not right after, but after I got divorced. It was the first relationship I had after, well, it was the first relationship I had in about 20 years because the only other relationship was with the person I was married to and with for almost 20 years. When that relationship broke up, it was very, very difficult and I went through a very, very hard time. I don't really watch TV

at all. I'd barely even used the TV at that time. I decided to start exploring like Netflix, because I heard there was things there. And yeah, I started watching stand-up comedy. I've always love stand-up comedy, but there's not many women. And so I discovered, you know, I literally would just like scroll through, scroll through and just like keep watching and watching and watching. And I found this woman, Eliza Schlesinger. And I thought, well, that's a very interesting name, because it is, not related to Dr. Laura Schlesinger, who has a C in her name. Eliza has no C in her name. And what I saw on stage was this woman who I wish I was. Like she was so fierce and just like the way she spoke and the way she presented herself. And like she was,

She was attractive and pretty, but also, like, tough and, like, very, I mean, her, you know, she's like a transplanted New Yorker who grew up in Texas. And I just loved her energy. And a lot of what she said was very empowering to me at that time in my life. It was about knowing your worth. And, you know, so much of her comedy is about not buying into those tropes of like, you're amazing as a woman and you can do it. But I heard that message through the way she presented herself. I watched all the specials that I could at that time. and I was invited to go to an L Magazine Women in Comedy event,

and I'll be super honest, I don't usually get invited to L magazine events. It's just not something that happens to women like me. But I was a woman in comedy, and I saw that Eliza Schlesinger was the entertainment at this event. And it was at a club on sunset, like kind of a fancy kind of comedy club, the kind of place I've never been. I had to hire a stylist. I was so nervous what to wear because I'm so much bigger than all the other women at these things. And I really have a lot of anxiety about going to events, especially events, you know, that are hosted by fancy magazines that don't feature me. So I went literally to see Eliza. I was single, you know, and I don't really have close girlfriends. Like I took my publicist who I've known for many years and we have a good time together and she's also from Texas. And, and I, and I

I went and I, you know, I didn't socialize with anyone. I, like, stood in the corner, just, like, waiting for the performance to start. And then I was given, like, a VIP seat. So I was, like, right up close to Eliza. And she, she was unbelievable. And my publicist said, we're going to go meet her after. And I said, no, we're not. Like, I was terrified. I was so nervous to meet her. And I started to cry when my publicist literally dragged me over to meet her. And we took this picture. Like, I didn't know, you know, Heather was like, Maya, we're going to take. a picture with her and I was so nervous just to like to be around her we ended up exchanging information like that happens a lot you know I think I probably like reached out and was like I'm really sorry for like

crying in front of you and like I just really appreciate like you've done so much for me I had a really hard breakup and you know and she said do you want to hang out and like this was a dream so we went out and literally from the first time that I spent time with her I knew like this was a very special person for me to meet at that time in my life because she had so much confidence without being arrogant about it. She just like really knew her place. And I remember I was talking to her about my struggles with this guy that I had, you know, we had just broken up. And she said, here's the thing. She said, if I'm too much for a man, if my star is too bright and it's outshining them and they can't handle it, she said, then get the fuck out of my way. And I was like, oh, who talks like

that. But she was absolutely right. You know, I was, so ringing my hands over, I'm too much, I'm too loud, you know, he wanted to be an actor, and I'm an actor, and he's not, you know, successful the way he wants to be, and I am, and like, what do I do about it? And it was like,

how about just like, I need to move on. And yes, I got back together with him and we tried for another year. But after that, after that, you listen to Eliza. Listen to Eliza. That was the journey that, like, I needed to go on, but with her friendship. It's been such an amazing opportunity to learn about her life. And, you know, I was at her

wedding and it was absolutely beautiful. And I just like I've become a part of her life and her family. And she's such a, such an important person to me. And we don't get to see each other. Obviously, we haven't seen each other the whole quarantine. But a lot of times I go along with her to gigs. And, you know, I get to watch behind the scenes. And I get to see what it's like for her to write once I got to write down a joke that we thought of while having dinner. that she thought of. And I get to be a hangar on her like with her. And I get to, you know, I often pick her up for gigs

and we'll drive to a couple places because she'll do like a set here and a set there. And I have friends who literally got pregnant after I took them to a show of hers. I wanted them to name the baby. She's last singer, but they didn't. Maybe that will be the baby's middle name. It's not.

The reason that I really wanted to bring her on, obviously to talk about how she balances everything and her work ethic and how she stays sane, you know, with a very, very rigorous schedule and demands on her in ways that I get intimidated just by hearing, the things that she manages and she does it so well. She really, really does. But when she texted me with excruciating pain,

I knew that what I wanted to tell her was that this kind of pain can come from accumulated holding and stress and tension. But you can't say that to someone, you know, right when they're... Not when they're in acute pain. You cannot. You can't say, oh, by the way, there's a big thing. By the way, I know exactly what caused this. Let's make it go away.

So she did ask me for some referrals, which I was able to get to her for some alternative, you know, I shouldn't even call it alternative healing for non-surgery, you know, because many people take this kind of condition that she has and situation. They're just like, let's get in there. So I was able to kind of be of service to her that way. And she's going to talk, you know, a bit about also how she got the way she is in terms of her confidence and how a lot of I feel like my stress would be better if I had her confidence. Word of the Day.

The word of the day, based on the text, is nucleus popolpus. Very good. Nucleus popolpus. So this is the stuff that disks are made of. When people talk about herniated discs in your back, in your spinal cord, and in your neck, this is what disks are. So disks can be ruptured. they can be bulging, they can be herniated.

You have a spinal cord that is all of the information that needs to get from your brain to your body and from your body to your brain. And it connects to your brain at the brain stem. And what it does is it runs the entire length of your back and it's protected by your spine. All those vertebrae. You know, if you've ever seen a skeleton model

or been on a beach and saw, you know, the, even the carcass of a bird, we have these little vertebrae. They're just bones, you know, they're special bones, very special bones. And those bones go all the way down. And inside of those bones is your spinal cord. But also in between those bones, so that you can move and be flexible, there's this jelly-like substance. It allows for the flexibility of our spine. It allows for cushioning so that if you have, you know, an accident or something like that, it gives a little bit of cushion, these discs can get hurt and they can rupture and they can

leak that stuff out, the nucleus proposis. They can leak it out. And what happens then is that the nerves that the spinal cord is are then exposed because they don't have protection. And those are really, really loud, loud nerves. They make a very, very specific vibration in your body. I'll say one thing about one of the times that I have had nerve pain. I've had four hernias, three surgeries, because two were in one surgery. My last hernia was an inguinal hernia, which is your groin, basically right by your bikini line. The surgery was successful in repairing this hernia that needed to be repaired, but in the process, they nicked a nerve. And it does heal. It healed, but even as a neuroscientist, and I also, I don't take narcotics.

So I recover from all of my surgeries with no narcotics. So I'm lucid, but I kept having the sensation after this surgery that I was urinating hot oil all over myself when I was not peeing. There was no hot oil. And I couldn't figure out what is going on. I'd be sitting and it was like, oh my gosh, what is happening? That's nerve pain, but it can be much worse. Like, mine wasn't even that bad. Mine wasn't even that bad.

And I've given birth to human beings with no drugs twice. Big kids. So I know the intensity that you can experience in your body. And yes, labor and birth is different because that's a pain that has a purpose and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But very hard to breathe your way out of nerve pain. Very, very difficult. That takes care of the word of the day. Let's get my friend Eliza Schlesinger on.

to talk about holding all the things. Break it down. MyNBi Alex breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine, drink more water. There's no real data. There's no game plan.

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for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention My Ambiotics Breakdown to help support the show. Thank you for being here. I've been on your podcast. Yes. Which was really fun. I was very new to the world of even knowing what podcasts were when I went on your podcast. It was fun. We answered questions from the audience. Yeah. It's, that's the, we call them from the audience.

But I've been on yours. I was on Grock Nation. Right. We've, I've had you, I've interviewed you in other forms, but never like, like this. You also did a really huge solid for me at Passover. And you, you recorded something about Passover and you did your Gifilta Fish bit for me. I did. I did.

Thank God I had that material. Otherwise, I didn't have anything else to say. It's always good to have Gafelta fish material. Just hanging around. We're friends. We are. We are friends. And as Jonathan and I started developing this podcast, one of the topics that kind of, you know,

I keep circling is sort of what are the things that I wish I could take from other people to make my life less stressful or anxiety provoking? And one of the things that's been super positive is becoming your friend after stalking you at an event. Because I think especially in this industry. It doesn't count as stalking if you're the bigger celebrity, by the way. Like if you're a big celebrity. It's not stalking. And if you're the bigger celebrity, it's just a compliment.

But I really did want to meet you. And then after, literally after spending kind of the first social time that we had together, I realized like, I feel like that's the brain I wish I had gotten was Elizas. Because I remember you said to me, I remember you said to me. You're a doctor. Stop. You're a doctor. I'm not, I'm not talking about what I sat for in, you know, exams. I'm talking about, like, your attitude and your perspective. And honestly, the way you carry yourself because you hold yourself in spaces that I can't, namely on stage in front of people in ways that make me cry. You've seen me cry on stage. Remember I cried at that crazy improv thing we did on sunset. They gave us like sentences and we had to do an improv on

it. Oh. Yes. Yeah. The now closed nerd melt. Yeah. I'm playing up without a net. Oh, I love it. I was terrified. You did not like it. I do. Didn't like it? You like it. You're very good at it. No, but in the time that I've, you know, gotten to spend with you socially, like, I've found, I've found a fearlessness in you, which I see in other performers and I, and I don't have. I love to be close to you, meaning I love to, I love to watch how you operate and I, you know, I've gotten to go to gigs with you and I've seen you literally, like, texting on your phone and taking care of business and then you, like, hand me your dog, and you go, and then you sleigh. And, you know, for me, performing is really, really, it's very

anxiety provoking. Like even in a, in the safety of a stage, it is anxiety provoking for me to, you know, present myself. I want you to tell us a little bit about, you know, how you grew up, just like rough sketch, so we know where you're from. But I know, but I'm going to make you do it because I think it, it does. Like, that's the foundation for who you, you know, who we all become. So tell us a little bit about young Eliza. Like, were you always confident? Were you always funny? Just do it. I can. Just do it. I guess I can answer that it's so interesting because it isn't until, I mean, obviously, it isn't until you're much older that you are asked to reckon with slash explain growing up.

And to most people, you're like, I just grew up. Like if you were poor, maybe you didn't know you were poor. Some comics would be like, we knew we were poor. But if you had money, like you just, there's nothing to compare it to because you can only grow up once. So it's only through interview questions where people sort of demand to know, like, what made you the way that you are? And I'm like, well, I guess I'm always surrounded by people who have such extraordinary circumstances in which they were brought up that I always feel like I don't know, you know, but if I really think about it, my parents are deliciously funny. And I really, you know, it was always like, oh, my dad's funny. My mom's really smart.

But it wasn't until not recently, but I was talking. My mom has a very dark sense of humor that I get to tap into. I thought about it. Growing up, we had a game called. You know what I hate? And we would try to think of the worst way to be hurt. I'd be like, you know what I hate? When you put pins in my eyes, my mom would be like, yeah.

But you know what I hate? And then she would say, like, when you cut off all my arms, like really deeply. And if I make jokes about her dying or something, she always laughs. And I was only recently in this pandemic where I can't be with my family that I'm, you start to really appreciate those nuances. And I think that that applies to, just the way I grew up, this idea. People always ask me about the confidence thing.

It's so much more a part of the conversation now than it was growing up. I mean, this is like the 90s. And there's such a reward now for being a strong woman. And every woman's like a kick-ass rock star mama bitch. My mother is like, I was going to work. She was a single mom. Obviously would love to have met someone, which she did. But it wasn't this like Rosie the Ribbon.

or sisters are doing them. You know, she was this single mom in the 90s in Dallas who was like a New Yorker, sort of like a fish out of water. But it was never a conversation, like a badge on your sleeve. Like she just did. I was born but first. My mom gave birth to a breach baby with no drugs. And when I've asked her about it, she's like, yeah, it was intense.

Whereas like today, you would literally, like, you'd write a book about what it was like to give birth to a breach, baby with no drugs. And my mom's like, yeah, it was hard. But like, so it was, she's like, it was also hard being assaulted on the subway every day because I was a pretty woman, you know. So it was difficult for me. Exactly. Yeah. Now you'd have to like go on a panel, talk to five women, you know, write about it, post about internet, hashtag it, apologize. I think that there's something to be said from learning from a woman who just did. And maybe it was the time

or maybe it was just my mom particular. But she's incredibly, my mom's very pretty, but also very confident, as is my dad. I didn't grow up feeling awkward and anything I did was probably quite normal. And the older I get, the more I really realize, like, most people are bullshit. Almost everyone's lying. Most people are wrong or deeply stupid. Or they're just not paying attention. And it is a form of narcissism to constantly be like, well, what are people thinking?

Oh, my God, I made a mistake. It's just like, or nobody cares. Or they were drunk and nobody cares. Being a small Jewish child, there was a lot of kind of, you know, there was always sort of a performance aspect to just existing, but also to like our holidays and like, who's going to say the four questions? And, you know, like, everything felt like you were also, like,

constantly proof that Hitler didn't win. You know, there's just like this sort of like neurosis surrounding being a Jewish child. But I do remember in elementary school, like, the first time I started realizing I made people laugh with impressions I did and voices I did. And you once said to me that, like, you weren't the pretty girl until you became a comic.

And it was mostly men. anyway. I'm curious what, yeah, what was Eliza like? Like, what were you like? I'm funny. And I know it's like, oh, she's calling herself funny. I think you, from a very young age, you kind of identify, like, what's the thing that I don't have, but what's the thing that I can use to make friends? And, you know, again, this is Dallas, Texas, like suburbs, like, Plano and then, like, in the 90s. So nuance isn't like an appreciated thing. Like, if you're not white and Christian and adorable, then who the fuck are you? Like, you're, you know, you're brown or you're Jewish or you're not perfect. Like, there's, like, there was like a thing. And I remember

you're talking about the Jewish thing. I always felt like a little weird. First of all, Jewish holidays don't have pretty names. We're not marketable. And that's not by design, but it is, we're just like, we don't want you. But it's Kislev. It's Yom Kippur. It's, you know, Hanukkah. Like, these are not like words that you want to fill your mouth with. They don't roll off the Yeah, like Christ or Tenenbaum. And there was this, I remember, you know, you'd skip school. You'd go to like high holiday services and there was like one other kid in my grade. Like I kind of knew and you'd always get invited to the other kids bar mitzvahs,

even though like I was like, maybe those kids are dorks, but I know I'm not. Like I knew enough to know that I wasn't like a dork. I just, I knew I just wasn't quite hot enough, but I knew that I was funny. And that's how it was my way. just weigh in and you know you make your rag tag group of friends and kind of whoever will have you but you knew you didn't want to be friends with the weirdo kids like it's a weird space to be and you're like i'm not that but i'm not you know like Hillary Sanchez or whatever like I'm somewhere in between and just also you know as i got older knowing okay well i may not be as attractive to like a hot

guy and i say attractive like you could make out with someone but you you know you want a boyfriend or you want, you know, you want hot guys to want you, but I can make them laugh. And that became like my way of getting close to people, not in like a creepy way, just in a, if I can't fuck you, I can still make you laugh. And in many ways, it feels better because you're not disposable. And you have some merit and some value. And of course, with that humor and intelligence, I just remember being in, we had an improv troupe in my high school. And I was the only girl, I think my first year, there were other girls. And then as I, moved on in high school, I was the only girl. And I just remember, you know, there's this built

in confidence with some guys. Like, of course I should be talking. I'm tall. And I just remember thinking, like, I know, I know I watch more comedy than you. I know I write more comedy. I know I'm funnier. You're doing this, but you're going to go to medical school. And I'm going to do this for a living. So get out of my fucking way. It's about never suffering fools, not being like a bitch about it, but just kind of standing your ground. And I never saw a reason that I shouldn't be speaking or that a I should have something. And so when I got into stand-up in L.A., maybe it was the advantage of having a really nice private school education or a strong

mother, whatever. But I just, I never thought of myself as someone that needed to take anyone's shit. And if you do unwittingly, like when you're younger, you know, as you get older, you start to be like, no, why am I allowing this?

And of course, the more successful you are, the more you're able to call those shots. It's very difficult to tell a young girl who is just starting out. Like, don't take any shit because you don't, I guess you don't really have a leg to stand on merit-wise until you start to grow your career. I don't know. I'm just confidence comes from within and you've got to draw your own lines about what you're going to.

You know, I put up with you at sometimes and sometimes I don't and you get to the more successful you are, the more beloved you are, the more you get to draw those lines for yourself, I guess. You were circling, you know, one of the things also that I do find so appealing about you, not just as a comedian, but as a person. And it's not just confidence because like it's true. That's like it's a word and we throw it around. But I think that, you know, one of the things that you've really, you know, committed to in your writing and in your stand-up in particular is this notion of that kind of ambiguity. And I think it makes people able to identify with whichever part of you they don't like so that they can say this is, and not just you, but just in general, right?

You tend to do something that people say that I do. You can hold both sides of an issue at the same time. And I think it's really, it's very prominent when you deal with women's issues. I mean, some of my favorite things that I quote that you have said have been about, you know, it's only stalking if he's not attractive. You know, like, but no, and you're also able to kind of find the humor in that. But can you talk a little bit about also, you know, is that like a, is it a conscious decision or choice? Is that just sort of the way your brain works?

And what is it like to get, I mean, you do. You get support from both sides. you also get criticism from both sides, I mean, in ways that really boggle the mind. But I guess I do wonder what that feels, like what does that feel like for you to hold both of those things? I mean, I think you're talking about duality,

which comes down to being an intelligent person. Like, if you really, like, look, you're not going to argue both sides of the Holocaust. Yeah, Germany was trying to get out of, like, financial issues. But there are some things where you're a bad person if you argue the other side, but so many things in our culture are so nuanced. wants and so gray.

So the idea, limiting yourself to not being able to have a conversation. And especially as a comic, you know, our job is to see it from a new angle and is to, you know, you're trying to find the funny. And oftentimes the funny is in something dark or something brutal. But this society that we're creating where it's like, you say one thing, you're either pro this or you're anti-everything. And if you say anything else, we're going to kill you. this like sort of fascist mentality about like don't ask a question don't have a conversation or it means

your other and it's not even applied to politics you know it's just having conversations is how we create ideas and how you write jokes and how you it's some of the most the some of the darkest and funniest shows on tv have that walk that fine line you know like family guy or veep or anything where they're scathing social commentary because what you do when you cater to the masses right and you only only say the thing. Like if I got on stage and I was just like, fuck all men. Women are powerful bitches.

Ride that unicorn or some other like Instagramable bullshit. You're talking to the lowest common denominator. You're immediately eliminating men, which is half your audience, or at least mine. And you're eliminating any intelligent woman who wants to be spoken to with nuance or like a grown adult.

And so you're really marketing to a group of people that you don't necessarily know if they support you. You know, I was talking about this on stage. You get on, if I get on stage and I, uh, and I'm just like, yes, queen, slay all day, bitch. Who is that for? Who is that for? No man is like, I love it when she speaks that way.

And yes, queen, I guess you're sort of appropriating like, um, like a sort of, like a drag queen thing. And so I don't think any drag queens are like, wow, she did that better than me. And, you know, and then there's the, so there's always. like being aware of who you are, how you're speaking, and is it authentic to you? You know, that's a weird example, but I always come back to when I'm writing, who is this joke for? Who are we trying to speak to and are you losing a part of yourself in the way that you're saying that that isn't authentic? And I think that's where, you know, you run into a little bit of trouble as a comic where it's like, you can say whatever you want, as long as you can back it up

with intelligence and heart, and, like, that's really the way you feel. You know, everything that's dark, everything that has, like, a shred of truth to it. And so I'm saying that without making any, like, political statements or social statements, but, you know, when you get on stage and you make sweeping statements, you have to, am I going to go to the mat for this? If I get called out, like, am I cool with this? Most of what I, almost everything I say has happened to me or it's true, it's a real thought. You want to make a, you know, a dick joke or a flip it.

That's totally okay. but the longer you go on, the more you build your uvre, the more you're going to have to contend with the things that you've said, and do you really believe those? And sometimes we make mistakes in what we say. Sometimes it was a flippant thing. Sometimes there are things you wish you could take back, but by and large, you know, what are you saying?

What are you building? What's your point of view? That's a helpful perspective. And the reason that I'm asking it is that, like, this does relate to mental health. And this is why I say, I like to be around you. all the things that you say, like those things that you just said, I agree with those things. I hold those things to be true. Now, I don't get to do my own material. I can't. I don't do what you do.

I don't know how to do that. But I have such tremendous anxiety about if people are upset with me. They are. Okay. They are. But here's the thing. I want to know this is one of the questions I have for you. Like, why are you okay with that and I'm not? I don't make the mistake of thinking that I'm so famous or important. I don't think I'm famous or important. That's not why. No, I'm not saying.

I'm talking about you. No, I just mean for me, you know, I'm not a politician. So first of all, and I say that, meaning I shouldn't be under a magnifying glass in that way. And I'm not running for office. So, God, there's a couple things I want to say. But you and me on a ticket, am I right? We could co-president during Black Lives Matter and during the election and all thing. We all lost fans, gained fans.

You know, some of us saw a huge. down tick and fans. And of course, you know, you're like, whatever, get out of here. You're racist. It's not that they're racist. They're probably just bots. You know, the idea that 2,000 people collectively were like unfollow. I'm like, or they're racist, whatever. And my husband said to me, he's like, cost to doing business. And I love that so much because you will have people that love the one picture you posted so they decide to follow you. And then you say something and that bothers some people and then they come back. And it's never going to dip so, your stock's ever going to dip so low. It's not like I molested or raped someone.

And so it goes to zero. You look like, it's like the stock market. You lose it wouldn't even go to zero. It wouldn't even go. It wouldn't even go. It wouldn't even go. That's the sad part. But cost of doing business.

And I think the thing that a lot of people forget, I was talking about this the other day, as women, we are in 2020, there's this sort of demand that women are these hopeful beacons of positivity, right? I'm talking about this on stage now. You go on almost any girl's Instagram page, and there's like a roomy quote, like a sort of misappropriated, maybe misspelled like FDR quote, a quote like from a shaman, like eat the stars, be your own son. And women from all walks of life from your, you know, barista to your neurosurgeon are posting like positivity quotes. And to me what that says is that we're so hurt, pandemic aside, like in general, we're so, our self-esteem are so fragile and we're so being assailed on a day. daily basis. We post these positive things, hoping that an absolute stranger will say,

hey, you're doing okay. Like, that's how much we need each other. It's become this thing where people decide what they want you to be. And if somebody the other day told me that my brand is occasionally off brand, and I love that, because I can be a very dark person. And I said to me the other day, and some girl was like, wow, that was really rude. And I'm like, I'm a stand-up comedian. We're not nice. My job is to make you laugh and I choose to do it in a very vulnerable way and I am a nice person. I like doing good things. But don't forget for a second what, where a sense of humor comes from. If somebody says them to me on stage, like I'll snap him in half. You know, don't forget that yes, I work out and I've got a dog that I love and I cook with my

husband and we've got all these. We're talking about being a multifaceted woman. but just because I'm not exactly what you wanted me to be in the moment, you want to attack me for it. Don't forget that I'm a stand-up comedian. For as far as we've come with women, we really don't allow for women to be multifaceted unless they're touting their own facets. Like, I am a mother and a coffee lover and a cat petter, but I also love windsurfing. And sometimes I vote red. Like there's all these things. And then when a woman actually displays them versus just hashtag,

them, oh, how could she do that? How could she make a joke about someone dying? How could, and it's just like, I'm sorry that you invested so much. Take from me what you want, but don't put on me your expectation. Every once in a while, I'll get like, it's always like a shitty beta, like, I met her once, she was a bitch. And I'm like, or I didn't like blow you when I met you. What do you mean I was a bitch?

I don't make it, I'm nice. I look people in the eye. I always give the benefit of the doubt. So if your perception was that I was rude, you were probably rude and couldn't believe that as a woman, I wasn't like, oh my gosh, how can I make you feel better? I probably just blew you off and walked away because you deserved it. Like, I'm not going to stand there. The amount that we talk about women and positive thinking and being everything and then when women actually put it into practice, the amount of equivocating that takes place. Boggles my mind.

Yeah, that also reminds me a lot of. what you talk about. We're just going to keep going down the list of things that terrify me and bother me that don't terrify and bother you. And this leads to the second thing that I'm terrified about, which is body image. And the way that women are perceived and the way that we're expected to be perceived. And you, you know, very famously work very hard at a really, really strong, beautiful body. And it's not very famously. And I don't work that hard. I hate to tell people, it's genetics. Nobody wants to hear it. No, but you post your workout. It's like, And it's like a thing.

And it's like, you know, like I've followed you posting workouts and things like that. But one of the things that you talk about also is the differences in sort of the ideal female body, you know, among black women, among brown women, among white women. And one of the things that I really do love about the way you present yourself and the way you do present your body is you are what many people would call thin and you're fit. But you're very, very strong. Thank you. Very, very, you're very, very strong. And like, you have meat on you. You have strength as part of your beauty and your fitness.

And I think I've heard you talk a bit about this. But this is one of the other things that really for women is reflected in social media, this notion of like, you know, sorry, I'm laughing because no one should feel body shamed, a phrase which I still struggle to understand sometimes. But I think you've talked about it that the women who most loudly say they don't want to be shamed are like the size zero models and kind of the the irony of what women's empowerment looks like so maybe you can and again this is something I'm bringing up because it's hugely stressful for me and anxiety provoking and takes a lot of my time and energy that that I think about

how I look and how I present myself and what's acceptable and you know I'm currently doing a show where no one has asked me to lose 20 pounds which in any other job they'll get sued they know they can't, they would have like 10 years ago. Right. The fact is it still does happen. You know, the expectations for women are still. I mean, I was literally once told, look as skinny and sexy as possible anytime you're in front of a camera. Anytime.

That's the goal. Exactly. It's not wrong because here we are. But talk a little bit about sort of where your sense of comfort is, where your sense of discomfort is. You know, before I say that, I'm going to. tell me that my body's beautiful and you love me anyway? No. No.

You got to slim down. No. I acknowledge, by choice, I have blonde hair. I mean, who doesn't? Who wouldn't? And I acknowledge, you know, I'm a white, upper middle class, whatever, with a certain body. And I don't, I do not have a weight issue. And I, having only been on one diet once, which was the keto diet, this is going to sound

so, like, shelter. in those days. Oh my God. The reason you lose weight is because you're kind of like, I don't want to eat anymore. Exactly. We would go out and you'd be like, I'm good. I'll just watch you eat your food. So much meat. But, and as I get like a little bit older than you can't eat whatever you want, you know,

in the smallest microcosm seeing how difficult it is to control those urges and stuff. So my heart does go out to people who do have a weight issue or who do really struggle with that. And if you don't have that, it's impossible to fully sympathize. So

I got a glimpse of that. So here I am not overweight, being like, like, love your body. And anybody that is and that struggles is probably like, go, fuck yourself. So I fully acknowledge that. That being said, my biggest issue with the whole shaming and weight thing is, why can't you just keep your opinion to yourself? If you think a girl is fat,

do you not have control over yourself? You think she doesn't have self-control because you think she's fat. You can't control your hands from not typing. Fat bitch. Like, just don't say it. You don't have to date her. You don't have to buy her products. You don't have to.

Just don't say, kill yourself. How hard is this? You think she's out of control. Imagine how much better the world would be if people just didn't, like, word vomit, horrible things with no objective other than to hurt. You know, it's one thing if, as, you know, you pull them aside and you're, hey, I'm a doctor. Did you want whatever?

Just say nothing. Leave it to their parents. Or just don't, like, they're fine. And I guarantee they know what they look like. And they're either okay or if they're okay, then you're an asshole. And if they're not, you're just making them feel worse. So just, I got to write that down.

That's very funny. If you look at how the petulant demands of society and I didn't grow up thinking about my body as much as some other women, you know, I never looked at my butt. because having a butt, you know, in like white suburban cult, like it wasn't a thing. And then in the last several years, it's like, get a juicy butt. I literally, I didn't know I had one.

I mean, I was never thought about it. Late in my teens. I knew that I lost my proper ballet body, you know, when I hit puberty. And it was good that I didn't continue trying to be a ballerina because this build would not have worked on point. Right. But I literally, I didn't know until I was later in high school. and like, somebody made a comment. I was like, that's weird.

And then it was my first serious boyfriend who was a painter who, like, would paint me. And he was like, yeah, you have a very special. I was like, what? Had any, we didn't think about it in those days. We didn't think about it. And, you know, some girls did

and I don't know where you're from, whatever. Yes, like I said, society demands eyebrows be thin, be bushy, have, you know, and we all want to borrow things from other cultures. Everybody wants to look like this, you know, weird hybrid thing. The truth is, And I want women to understand this.

The truth is the expectation set is not reality. It's not a reality. The map is not the territory. If a guy actually expects you to look like that, that is a garbage human. Any man worth anything is never going to be that angry if you don't have the perfect butt. If your stomach isn't perfectly flat, you know, men actually have incredibly low expectations for what. But they're just pumped that you're there, you know? And so this idea that you got to overline your lips and you got to have this flat and it's got to be this.

It's just for a picture so someone would be like, you look hot. But in practice, men aren't that demanding. Yes, there are men that say horrible things and yes, there are weird expectations. But it's just if you're, I hate to say if you're fucking with the right one. But if you're talking to a man who's going to value you, he might want you to look nice, but it's not. It's not as stringent as social media would have you believe. I was looking at, I've always thought I had, I had fat thighs. I've always thought that.

I got stretch marks on my thighs when I was like 13. And my friend, my best friend didn't have them. And she was tall and she had really long legs. And I don't have long legs. I have strong legs. And they're not tiger stripes or whatever women want to call them. You barely see. They're not tiger stripes.

They're not tiger stripes. I'm so pale that you don't notice them. They're just like kind of shiny. And I don't really care. Part of it is that I'm married. I'm like, fucking whatever. But even before that, I guess I was never wearing anything so short

that you could see the stretch marks, but I always thought I can, and I do. And I see that when I try on jeans, you know, you'll be small in the waist and then you have these thighs. Now, now it's like this great thing and people get butt implants, they make their thighs look. But it does take a toll on you when you're like, I don't understand.

Like, I work out and I do everything. And fashion keeps telling me that my body is wrong in this one proportion, and there's no real way around it. It's called having a body. There are different body types. It's called being fucking normal. And now it's fine.

Now everyone wears leggings and it's a yeezy video and whatever. I sound so old. But I guess so I remember when I started in comedy, I had a whole joke about how I have deer haunches and my upper thighs are thick. And I named my corporation like haunch meat. Like it was like my thing. And I look back at pictures and I'm like, I weighed 100 pounds. They weren't thick.

And I remember, you know, I remember going to work one time. And this, I probably had like a little bit of baby fat on me. And I wore, a friend of mine had like no fat on her legs. And she wore cut off shorts and heels. And I copied the outfit. And somebody in the office told me I had polkies, which is like, yeah, for like, was it chicken thighs? Well, no, it's a, it's Yiddish for juicy thighs, really. Like, you know.

Yes. Yeah. So he, you know, and so little things inform it. So like, no, did I have supermodel, thin thighs? No. But it's like a thing in the back of your mind. and some girls suffer from a lot more, and they think they have so many things wrong.

But I look back at pictures of me and jeans. I'm like, what was I talking about? And this is, as of late, I've looked back at pictures of me in my even early 30s, and I'm like, I looked great. I looked great, and I've always thought, oh, you've got bad hair or you've got bad this, whatever. What I didn't have was straight teeth. And what I did have was like chin acne,

but like none of those things. It's all these, like, weird things. And so as of late, I've adopted this idea that, like, I've decided I'm like, you look great now. And in five years you're going to look back and be like, oh, look how great I looked. So live in that moment and know that you look great now and nobody cares. Like it's so vain. Oh my God, my pain.

I'm a little chub sticking out. I'll never look like a supermodel. I will never be that thin. My body doesn't allow for it. And you should believe women when they say that they're working out for their ideal body type. I scroll through, I follow a lot of like bodybuilders and like fighters and like women that are very strong and like, um, like crossfit. Like it's my algorithms, all that. I genuinely think that's a great way to look. And I know and I try to go toward what my body strengths are. I can put on

muscle and I can be very strong. And I like that look. I want that and I don't do crossfit and I don't work out like that so I won't have that but like that's I would rather show up to an award show looking fucking jacked than wayfish. Build your own version. I'm sorry. I was just say build your own version of what you find attractive and know that there are certain things your body will not do. I will never have like bird thighs. I will never be tall. And so I'm killing myself to like get these thin thighs and I'm doing squats and it's like it's never going to happen. So why? Why? Why are we killing ourselves trying to force our bodies to be something that you physically can't? I was going to ask if this is the time where you pull out your triceps.

No, I'm not. Eliza wants me to show my triceps. Do you remember we took a picture? We took a picture in a bathroom once and she's like, why do you cover those things up? And we both flexed. Show off that body. Jacked. No.

Just ripped. Take off your high school issued PE sweater. Okay, this leads to my last, my last thing I have anxiety about. I feel like I've been, like, rambling. I'm obsessed with you. I love you. No, everything is lovely. You're perfect. But the last thing I wanted to ask you about before we get into sort of more current stuff. Oh, it's not over. It's not over. No, you're not done. I still have you for like 20 more minutes. Here's a thing I wanted to also say. One of the other things that I learned about you as I've spent time with you is you have a very, very strong work ethic. And you were one of those people who's always, I mean, you work a lot. You work a lot. And as a stand-up performer, you perform a lot. You've done how many Netflix specials now? Five. Five. But also, you are still out there. I got in early. I got in with them early. Well, that's how I first, you know, got to see you. You perform. You hit the pavement. Like, you get out there with your jeans and

your t-shirt and your hair and a ponytail and you, you are constantly working on new material, and you're constantly kind of working. When we started hanging out, I noticed that you do some very specific things. You have a very strong work ethic in that you don't drink and party before you get on stage. You're specific about how you spend your time. You are specific about having time for yourself and time for you and your husband and like time with your dog. It's an admirable work ethic. Like you're specific about how you eat. You are. Can you talk a little bit about is that like a trial and error thing? Like have you just figured out that's what works for you? Because often you have to be up late, but you also often have to get up early. And you're an actress.

as well. And you've had some really, really exciting stuff happen in your acting career as well. I mean, like, you do more than Netflix specials and gig. Like, you do a ton. So talk a little bit about kind of what your work ethic is like. First of all, I love the work. I love working. I do, you know, Joan Rivers was the same way. And I'm just using that as a touchstone in terms of she's also a woman and she also was in Santa. I love the work. I love the hustle. And I think the inherent passion for that is what drives everything. I love to be productive.

I really do. And I think I've never heard my mom say she was bored. You want to talk about productive. My mom, it's constant. She makes me look like a Zen master who like does nothing. The idea that one would be bored, it's like, well, then read a book, clean your room, do something. And I found that me being idle is me being like quietly productive. I love the work. I also have not benefited from a career that's been handed to me in any way,

shape, or form. I did not have parents in the business. I had no knowledge of the business before I moved here. Being a cute girl was automatically something thrown in your face. That was, you know, that's why you can't be funnier. Like, they try to take it away from you, however you got it. Whatever it is you have, they're going to use that to take it away from you. Soon after, I did last comic standing, you know, you kind of go on the road and You were the only female and youngest comedian to hold that title? Is that correct? Don't act like that's not about. I care.

People don't. But I will say, you know, it became very clear right after that. It's like, yeah, it's just the show's, like, nobody cares. You're not getting anything beyond that. And what you win, thank you. What you win in that isn't last celebrity standing. You get a little bit of notoriety and you get a bump in your career and I took it and I ran with it. You know, you could very easily win that and then just kind of play like a giggle bucket and then whatever.

And I just went and I just moved, to quote the row, in the direction of my dreams, I just went. I had no guidance. I had no mentor. I didn't really know any other women. Any woman that was doing it was probably so ahead of me. Like there was no one. So you're cobbling together this education as you go, just kind of building and building. You know, that's how you, prior to Netflix, like that's how you built an audience was going into,

these cities over and over and building this audience. Sometimes the room is paper. I'm so grateful for that boot camp of an education in this. And the whole reason that I'm saying all this is because everything is a hard fought, hard won victory. I'm a cute girl, but it's not, you know, I'm not so beautiful that it's like, she's got to be the lead. I mean, look, we love looking at her. Really clawing any victory out of thin air. And nobody is going to write something for you. I didn't have the benefit of having been a writer. So I had all these writer friends and actor friends. I was on my own for years on the road quietly writing my scripts, teaching myself how to do it. Anything that I have is because I called my manager and I was like, here's what I want to do.

And I created it. And even the momentum of creating something doesn't necessarily propel you into something else. But at the end of the day, I'm an artist. So I love to create just for the sake of creating. Is it Ars, Grada, Aris? Art for art's sake. I love that. I love just writing. I love, I just love to create things. You have to because nobody's going to do that work for you. Yesterday we were pitching a show and my manager was like, okay, so write up a synopsis. And I was like, really, we can't use one of the 12 synopsis that I've written about this same show, the eight other times we pitched it. And it really, people don't realize how much of it is you. You've got an idea, write it out. Now do the research. Now do that. You know, very few people, you know,

there's only a couple of Emma Stones or Jennifer Lawrence is where someone's like, here, I wrote something for you. You know, I'm not taking anything away from them. And you have to dedicate yourself to a craft and mine has been stand up. And I'm getting more and more into acting. But that work ethic comes from knowing that you are so lucky to succeed in show business. This is something almost everybody wants to do and stand up is something almost everybody wants to do everybody wants to know about everybody thinks it's easy if you want to drink and go on stage do whatever works for you I take it seriously because I take my audience seriously

and having traveled enough and I consider myself a middle of the road American I see the type of variation in the audience and I see wealthy people come and I also see people who show up like six people to a car and clearly don't have a ton of money and I see their dental work, and I see their outfits, and they bought a VIP ticket. I know that they have maybe a fixed income. She literally just described me coming to see her in Vegas.

You're going to all these parts of the country. Not everybody's going to be just like you, and I really respect that people are choosing to spend, in some cases, hundreds of dollars, to see a show that I created, to listen to what I have to say, to meet me afterward, to buy a T-shirt, and I take that very seriously,

because they didn't have to do that. And people choosing to spend time on you is the most valuable currency next to money. But I want to be professional. I want to give them a full show from the second they walk in to the second they're done meeting me. I don't take for granted any of this

because I work so hard for it. And I want that to come across in professionalism. So that is why I don't drink or anything before because if all I have to do is do an hour of stand-up on a Saturday, the least I could do is be like prepared for it and not drunk. Okay, so the last thing I want to ask you about, you texted me, when was it? Was it, how long has it been?

A month ago? Six weeks ago. It's been a month. You texted me in excruciating pain. This is not the first time I've gotten such a text from someone in my life who I love because I am the resident neuroscientist and also the resident person whose body has broken down the way most 90-year-olds have had their body breakdown. I've had a lot of ailments.

I diagnosed, I believe, which vertebrae was out. I think I said C4, C5 based on your symptoms. Correct. Right. Yeah, well, it was very specific, yeah. Are they ruptured? Are they herniated? They're herniated.

Okay, so you have herniated discs in the C4C5 region. In the C4C, I think it's C5C6, C6C7 or C4C5 C6. But there's two. Yes, there are two. Are they next to each other? Are they next to? They share a five. It's a duplex.

It's a duplex. It's a duplex. They share a wall. So that pain is exceptional. You experienced nerve pain. That pain will make you vomit. I don't know if you threw up from it. That pain, that really literally rocks you to your neurological core.

Do you want to describe it? I wish I did. Oh my head. Don't make fun of it. Yeah. I mean, also, you're talking to. someone I have no precedent set for that type of pain. Correct.

I've never broken a bone. I've never been admitted to the hospital. You've never given birth? I've never given birth. I've had a miscarriage, but not given birth. And I say all that just, it's extra scary when you have no context for these things and all of a sudden something goes wrong. I've had the benefit of leading a pretty risk-free, healthy life.

And so it's extra scary because you're not as familiar. And was there a physical incident? That's the other thing. Everyone's like, were you in a car accident? Like, you're so broken. And I'm like, no, no football. I work out. We're talking like a 20-minute Pilates in that routine.

That doesn't cause what this is, right. You know, and like jumping or running, whatever. And I played sports growing up, but not in an award-winning level. So this presented itself. This presented itself in the form of what I thought was a pulled muscle in my shoulder, an upper arm. And I was on tour. And I just kept saying to my tour manager, like, can you get me like salon pospatches or some like some kind of icy hot rub?

I thought I'd tweak something. And because my jaw clicks, I figured, okay, it's something in my neck and I did something. And we've been on tour before. I'm like, I need to see a massage therapist before I go on stage. My neck. My neck, my neck, my neck. Thinking this is just part of being, of getting older and being Jewish and your jaw hurts. Everyone's jaw hurts.

Everyone's stressed. Whatever. Anyway, my arm hurts, my arm hurts. I'm on tour and I remember I'm coming home from Anaheim. We did a show there and I'm and I need to like put a thing at my lumbar. Like I'm like trying to find a way to sit. I'm like, but because nothing had happened, whatever. I come home the next morning.

I'm like, wow, it really hurts. I'll just have some drinks. I'm not like a big drink to feel better person and I'll lay in the pool and maybe that'll relax it. And I'm up that night at like 2 a.m. And I'm crying. And as an adult, you don't tend to cry from pain. You cry from like emotional things. And I'm begging my husband.

I'm like, please take me the emergency. I've never been to the emergency room. It's excruciating that kind of pain. And you're scared so I go. So she gives me, she like treats my, we think it's something in the shoulder. Because you don't know. You don't have an X right anything. And then begins the daunting task of like finding the right doctor.

Who do we know? Oh, fuck. They're all on the west side. And I'm like, I'd rather just have the pain. I don't want to get in the car and cross the 405. It's so far. And we get the sports medicine doctor. who tells me, who orders me an MRI.

Never had an MRI. Right. So even in doing it, you ever notice you start to... That's its own experience in MRI. I actually found it very relaxing and I almost fell asleep in the machine. Well, that's actually neurological overload that makes you pass out. And you're so scared. You convince yourself that that information coming into your brain is okay.

Yes. Well, you have to. Got dunk, got on, got on. Yes. And I was like, trying to like... Yeah. Anyway, I don't want to make this out more than it is, but that is. But that is a daunting task finding, you know, and you're asking around, all of a sudden,

no one knows anyone and you're trying to find someone. All the while, this is the funny part, I'm documenting it on my Instagram. Yes, we do things under the guise of, I want to share my journey so other people, no. What I'm hoping is someone will be like, hey, I'm the head of backs at UCLA. Let me help you. What I found is that none of my fans are doctors. All of them are like nurse administrative assistants. All of them have broken backs and all of them greatly sympathize.

and had a variety of advice. Right. And so I get this doctor, and he sends me for an x-ray and an MRI, and they said they were bulging discs. So in the meantime, I go to this, like, highly coveted physical therapist, and he's working on me, and he's so expensive, but he was so angry that he couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. He started treating me for free.

And so my arm has, like, marks on it from a theragun and from Theratap and all this shit. Trying to figure out the nervous trapped, whatever, I go to see surgeons and they're just like, yeah, now it's not a bulging disc, it's a hernated disc. I'm like, when did it graduate? Like, is that the same? How did we not know this? Whatever.

Hernated disc. So I'm like Googling what that means. It's like basically this punching your friend, Myam. Yeah. texting Ma'am. You were the only one who offered real solutions. You were like, here are some names, here are some things because everyone else is like, I'm old too.

And you're like, I'm a doctor. So basically in between you have a spinal cord, which is bones, right? just like all the bones in your body, but in between there's this jelly. It's like a little jelly disk. I picture those like there used to be a candy. They looked like, what's the one with the hole in the middle?

Jelly ring. Yeah, they look like jelly rings. But anyway, fruit loops. They look like fruit loops. But they're squishy. And what happens is they can herniate literally. And they can start eking out. And if it fully herniates, the gel starts,

it's the pulpupus mucosa. It starts to come out. We know what a pulpalamicosa is, Miami. But it exposes the nerve, which is running through your entire spine. That's your spinal cord. And that is designed to be the most sensitive part of your body because it connects to your brain stem, which is how you breathe. So this part of your body is designed for you to sit up and take notice when it's hurt. And that's what's going on.

And your body can reabsorb that, but surgeons will be like, I'll fix it. Well, that was my first real hard lesson with our medical system. And by the way, the doctors are like, let me call someone, let me text someone, like you're getting a little bit of special treatment and go to see this doctor.

And I walk into like, it's like a spine clinic. And it's, I called it a DMV. There's, forget COVID. There's like 50 people in the waiting room. Everyone's getting an epidural. Everybody's there. And I walk into the doctor who, is, you know, big fancy doctor, and I go,

I just want to make this clear, I'm not going to be one of these perpetual pain patients. I'm not going to be sitting in your office, no surgery. He's like, well, I recommend a double disc replacement. And I'm like, I'm 37 and I've never even fallen. Okay, so I want to know, did they give you a nerve block? So they finally convinced me, they're like, get an epidural. And now I'm like, that's for women who are like having their body split open

and having baby. Like, that's an epidural. It's like, there's a human coming out of me. And I was crying. I was so scared because I'm like, what if it paralyzed? Like you don't fucking know. And I start thinking about, you know, he's like, here are all the risks, which of course don't happen.

Like vocal paralysis. And I'm just thinking like, I mean, I remember when I got an MRI for my jaw and the doctor was like, oh my God, like she had the worst bedside manner. And they start talking about like how you won't be able to speak and all this stuff. And you're like, this is my living. This is my heartbeat. So of course you're scared of yourself, I go in for the epidural. of course it's the easiest thing ever but it's whatever it's significant though yeah and it did nothing

it did nothing my husband's also had them it did nothing and of course they're like you know they're a couple grand with insurance if you're lucky to have it and they may not work you might need a couple i'm like wasn't that just convenient did they give you muscle relaxants so they gave me the sports medicine doctor i saw gave me so many prescriptions and at first i was like fucking party this is gonna be lit but then by like day three you're like pain killers aren't fun if you're in pain Yeah. And I was just like, I don't want to be this. I don't want to be.

It's also very disorienting. I mean, look, depending on your reaction to painkillers, you often can't poop. You don't really think straight. You can't make other decisions that you wish you had your full faculties for. You're just a little sad. And you can see how this can grip a nation and wreck a family and I don't have an addictive personality. Thank God.

But I'm just like, you know what? This can't be it. I don't want to do this anymore. And it's not that it stopped you from being in pain. you just care less that you're in pain. So I'm in this pain and we're talking for a month. I'm up several times a night and you can, and as I'm a woman and people see me on camera and you see it in my face and like,

you know, like I knew I, I know I looked tired in general. I did do like so much gwashaw before this interview and I'm like looking at my face and like your kidney, like the thing under your eyes, it's all purple and you just, I looked horrible and I'm up. I sleep like 10 hours a night. I'm not like a part, I need a lot of sleep. And I'm up two, four, eight o'clock, like just over. I'm sleeping on the floor.

And it was like having a crying baby attached to my arm. And you'd have to find these weird positions. I'm moving. It was the saddest thing, just like waking up on the floor. Crying because you can't sleep. So your day is fucked and you're in a bad mood because you're in pain. Anyway, it was really, you know, and you put on a brave face and I still did my shows and I still did stuff. but the whole time trying to figure it out.

And my mom, who keeps bringing this up, brought up this thing called the McKenzie Method. I'm not advocating it. I'm not a doctor. But it's a series of stretches. And I looked it up. One doctor in Southern California, one physical therapist chiropractor practices it.

Turns out he's the same doctor that was in the initial office I saw. And I started doing these stretches. This is after I'd been told I needed surgery. And within a couple days, the pain, it wasn't gone. It isn't gone. it was manageable all from doing these stretches. Right. So, and let's just, let me just, I want to just insert a little bit of science here.

This is not placebo. And I don't know specifically about the McKenzie method, but what certain body practices and body treatments will do is try and realign your musculature and all of the parts of you so that your body can start using that energy to reabsorb the herniation and also to let that nerve calm down. It's about the nerve calming down because you're tapping that nerve. I'm sorry, I feel like this is, nobody really wants to hear about someone else's pain,

but I can tell you, anybody that's never been in pain and then you are in excruciating pain, it's scary because you're like, will it be like this forever? And your body reabsorbing it takes so long. Well, okay, so this is why I wanted to talk about it. And then I promise. No. Tampu? Hold on.

I'm here. I know. Tell your mother that I'm busy. Fucking earning a living, Nancy. No, I'm just on this podcast with my mom. My mother-in-law is great. These kinds of injuries in particular do often happen to people who work hard and who play hard, meaning people who are intense.

Like, shall I read, shall I read your transcript? Suck it up, you whining you. That's what you said. You said that to me. I was so scared. No, but I, you know, what I said to you is, I had to say it because I have to say this. Like, can you stop everything you're. doing in your life. And the answer is, of course not. And that's the, and right, and that's the thing

is like, when I hear of people who, for example, you know, treat these chronic illnesses and, God forbid, cancer by like not doing any Western medicine because they shut their whole life down, they don't have any stress, they hire a chef. Someone takes care of their children and they live on a mountain for six months and they eat only macrobiotic food and they meditate three times daily and they spend the rest of their time rubbing oils on themselves and looking at butterflies. You're like, but is that living? Exactly. So what I do know is that I'm super, super grateful that you found, you know, some relief.

And also, like, there are so many other hippie-dippy things that I do want to talk to you about, not now, but just in general, because these kinds of things is also, and like, I'm your hippie friend, right? Like, it's your body's way of saying, like, what is happening? happening, right? Because you are. Sure. Right. You're a young woman. So I think it's really... You hear that? Hollywood? You're young woman. I could play 34.

I do appreciate you sharing because for people, you know, I have chronic pain. Jonathan, like we both share this. Lady Gaga has it too. I know. I thought about her crying getting a massage before. I'm Lady Gaga.

Right. So, well, I mean, that's not exactly what I was thinking. Just like her. No, but I think. think about yeah in her documentary i remember when i saw that i was like people must think this is so nuts that you have a person who when someone literally just puts their hands that they start crying but like it's a thing your body does have memory and your body holds things sorry somebody gave me this lent it to me and i need to return it and i'm not saying this is a book somebody gave me this the mind body prescription oh i told you dr sarno well i'm a multiple people person

Well, I read a chapter. Stop it. Okay, we're going to talk about this. I read a chapter and I'm fixed. No. Dr. Sarno is the line of thinking that there are plenty of people walking around, probably with herniated emulging discs who feel zero pain, that there is a specifically a personality type was what his, he sort of revolutionized this aspect of back pain. I got that book from Chuck Lurie because I came to work. It was actually the anniversary of me coming to work like this, I believe, six years ago.

literally like the number seven I was hunched over from the waist I could not stand up and Chuck Lorry said to me I know what you've got this is the book that will change your life and you know what I did I didn't read it and then it happened to me again

I think a year later and I finally read the book and I literally googled I googled the therapist that I could find in Los Angeles I googled that condition he calls it TMS transient myostatic's And I did a year of trauma bodywork because...

Oh, my God. I read a chapter half awake the other night after a hard kombucha. They said that difficult patients sometimes need to see a therapist. But most people recover, literally, most people recover simply from learning the information. Not recover. Most people learn to manage their body from reading Dr. Sarno. This is a thing. I'm in love right now with everything that's happening with you and me.

list of all the stresses in your life. Not going to show you, but it's on the other side. Look, there's placebo. Look, if you have cancer, you have cancer. You're not going to think it away. But I thought that this was interesting because why not, if you have the time, which we do in this pandemic, why not attack it? I have been going to acupuncture.

And, you know, you can't go just once. I fully, you know, you call yourself my hippie friend. I am so into the metaphysical and energy. And I grew up with an aunt who's super into it. So while I don't present as such, Um, my pronoun is spiritual being. No, but I do, I do believe in all of that and, you know, mental, mentally committing to things and just reading in this book that there are people that have this and it doesn't hurt and that this is normal and that you, you know, I was like,

that could be me. And I just kind of started reading, just opening myself to the possibility of maybe you can fix this. Maybe you can think about this a different way. That's not unicorn fairy dust. You know, I say that a lot. Like acupuncture, there's a science to acupuncture, too. But I'm so, so glad that you, I'm literally going to go back and search our texts and see, maybe I was nervous. I was nervous to tell you about Dr. Sarno because I thought you'd be like, bitch, I need it fixed tonight because I have a show. That is not, I did need it fixed, but I also think there is something to be said for when you are in excruciating pain and you get advice, like not being able to hear it because you're like, and I didn't want to be that person.

I didn't want to be that person. But like, no, it was also really painful. to not be able to be close to you because my instinct would have been what can I bring you? What anti-inflammatory things? Can I tell Noah to make? What can I rub on your neck? Like, let me come and put my hands on you.

And like that's also one of the huge limitations, you know, right now. For those of us who do rely on physical work, on body work, yes, on energy work, we do need to be near people. It's really, really hard. And I just felt really, you know, I wished I could come over, you know?

Can I be honest? Yes. You want to talk about female perception and the way we see our bodies versus what people are thinking of us. For what it's worth, what I take from our entire conversation, because I would text you, I don't want to bother you. I know you're busy, whatever. You answered.

You don't always answer. I think you're very busy. So I don't always get a text right back from you. You texted back immediately because you know it was important. What I got from it, the only thing I took away was that, wow, Miami really gave a shit. I remember, I will always remember this. you answered it wasn't like hey i'm busy you gave concrete advice medical advice you listen and you cared and i felt it and there are certain friends where you feel it versus hey i hope you're doing

okay and you were able to back i felt comfortable texting you as i would my own physician because i was like oh i'm going to get something real out of this versus just stretch so i was extremely comforted and i felt so much better from texting with you that's what i took from that so i i that's I'm sad for you that you felt that way, but I got so much out of it, the equivalent of being touched because you cared. And I do want to say one thing about like a holistic way of looking at things. I started thinking, my aunt had brought this up to me a couple times,

and she's like a life coach. And she's- I'm so excited about what you're about to say right now. I started thinking about it this way because there were a couple times in being upset and my assistant can attest to this from. I'm like, why is this happening? I'm a good person. I don't deserve this.

So I started asking myself, why is this happening versus why is this happening to me? Perfect. Like to me is like, oh my God, I'm a victim. Why is this happening? Can you zoom out, bird's eye view? And you look back at your life, bad things, good things, whatever. What was the lesson?

Why did I go through that? Why did I meet that person who did that? Why did I have that heartbreak? What did I learn? And you can't do it in real time because you need perspective. You know, like asking you to ask about your childhood. Well, I can't do it until I'm super removed from it. why is this happening? And I'm like, I'm not a patient person. And I have full use and command of my body and people know I'm very physical. This has taught me and continues to teach me, you know what? Maybe you slow down a little. Not slow down in life, you're not dying, but maybe listen. You do need to take that minute. And I found in my interactions with people that I'm a little bit more mindful and a little bit slower, slower to snap, to jump in. And I think that that's a good thing when you go a thousand mile.

an hour just to maybe not bark. That is, it's such a gift to have that perspective, you know, which does. It really only comes with, unfortunately, with experience. But also the other thing, and I'll text you more about Louise Hay later, you know, there's a lot about what parts of the body hurt us and what it means. And some of it is sort of what you take from it and what you, you know, make from it. But also the fact that you have a history of having such good rest, you know, and that's what was taken from you.

And like the ability to even have like the simple, of taking for granted sleeping on a bed, right? Being able to have like normal movement of your limbs. Sleeping on your side. I love curling up. And now I have to lay on my back like a weirdo corpse with one arm. Like this is how I see. Eliza, you're my favorite weirdo corpse.

Thank you so much. Thank you. I love you. I love you. I love you and I said it at the same time. Well, that was Eliza. Did you like my friend? She's a lot of fun.

She made you laugh. Yeah, I was expecting a lot of funny from her. That's her job. But she's not like, I don't find her like annoying. Sometimes comedians are like nonstop, always on. You can't get them to like calm down and have a quiet moment. I don't think of her like that. She is not the type of comedian that is take this joke, take this joke.

Right. She has insight. She's just funny. What we didn't cover, but we touched on a little bit, was did she have an understanding or consideration for psycho-emotional components of pain, which you guys started to talk about at the end. I can answer that for her. Because she talked about her witchy aunt, and she talked about being, she says she doesn't

present as a metaphysical person, but she's very open to that. And from what you had said, that is not how I initially interpreted. No, so I think, you know, I think in a lot of ways, and as she said, she's never broken a bone. Like, she's, I think she's had a pretty, you know, kind of uneventful, medically speaking, life. Like, I don't think she's had to delve into. And, you know, in a sense, like, I sometimes wish. I hadn't had to delve into the things I've had to, you know, delve in to.

Not everyone gets to have chronic pain and four hernias and all the other things. And a car accident. Okay. So you could stop the list there. No, I don't think of her as a non-emotional or non-spiritual person, meaning like she's a person who's in touch with her feelings. She doesn't share a ton of them intimately publicly, you know, because that's just not. Does she burn sage in her house? I don't think she burns sage in her house, unless it's Noah. and her cooking. What about Palosanto? She does not have Palisanto.

She doesn't know what Palisanto is. Mime should have a hippie friend introductory pack. Your friends who are not hippies. If our podcast becomes as successful as we hope that it will, that would be wonderful. Everybody could get a tiny little singing bowl and a little Palisanto and a little sage and some essential oil. What else? Unicorn tears. Rhinoceros horn for virility?

No, vegan. Oh, that's right. But unicorn tears are okay? It's a fantasy animal. Sure. Anyway, no, I think that she would consider herself a pretty conventional person, though, you know, medically speaking.

And that's why I was even nervous to bring up with her, Dr. Sarno. That's so amazing that someone gave her that book. I wish it was me. Next time she gets in pain. She did not like hearing that I did body therapy, trauma therapy for a year. She doesn't want that.

She would like the weekend retreat fix. Over 90% of people in these really, really large studies that Dr. Sarno and his team did found that literally over 90% of people found a reduction in symptoms simply from knowing that there was a power to their thoughts and their behavior patterns which contributed to their pain. Okay. Break that down for us. Here's the thing that most people don't know that they do. And I would argue that most people do it. It's called clenching. It is called clenching your body around... constriction. It's constricting, it's contracting your muscles. It's holding, like the episode

title. It is holding, but we don't even know we're doing it. If you've ever done a body scan and you've had, you know, like a meditation body scan, and they talk to you about relax, you know, like the wrinkles in your forehead. And you've, the first thing you think is, I'm not scrunching my forehead. And meanwhile, you then focus on it and you realize like, oh, I've been holding. You can do that every single part of your body. And the muscles of your back and the muscles of your shoulders and the muscles, yes, of your buttocks can be can be the place that we hold as humans who have to stand upright, which is really not natural for our actual physiology. For humans who have to stand upright, those muscles hold over time, over years. You don't even realize that you

are accumulating tension in those places. So once you read the kind of writing that Dr. Sarno did, the kind of research that Dr. Sarno did, the kind of research that many doctors who have followed, they call it mind-body syndrome, they call it transient myostatic syndrome. There's several names for it. What it is is it is tension that does typically come from a particular personality type, meaning we see it more in those kinds of people. It is tension that accumulates and leads to this kind of back pain and often years and years and years of going down the rabbit hole because no one can figure out what's wrong with your back. And often people have surgery and the pain doesn't go away and they can't explain it. And what Dr. Sarno and his sort of, you know,

disciples, as it were, have found is that people who are prone to that kind of back pain are often prone to essentially having the volume turned up on pain throughout their bodies. I am this person. For a percentage of people, this volume is turned up throughout our bodies and is the culprit in chronic pain. There's a lot of evidence that has surfaced recently that type A personality's, excessive doers. This is Dr. Sarno's stuff. It's not recent. I mean, that's Dr. Sarno's. Well, it's become popularized recently. Right. That is the type of personality that Dr. Sarno found overwhelmingly was experiencing this kind of tension and this kind of holding.

You know, my dad was the kind of person, bless his memory, who he had backaches all the time. The man lived on a heating pad, basically, when he was home. And it was almost always work stress. Almost always work stress. Meaning if he had like a fight with the principal, he was a teacher, public school teacher, you know, a fight with the principal or this administration or the union, this, he would have to lay down. he couldn't walk for days. And what Eliza experienced in just reading one chapter was that when you learn that there's a component of you that is contributing, not causing, but contributing to that cycle of tension and pain, simply breathing into that, holding that information for most people can start to have you see some relief from that pain.

It's really, really, it is fascinating, and it's one of those things that if it continues to be put into practice can absolutely revolutionize medicine. Because millions and millions of people are undergoing surgeries that cost us, you know, the public, a tremendous amount of money. The recovery is brutal. It often leads to many side effects when my father had his back surgery. They nicked a nerve which never fully healed in his groin. Like that stuff happens. Dr. Sarno really, really had this vision for what our understanding of pain could be. And it is really, we'll do many episodes about that.

And there are tens of millions of people right now just in the U.S. who are experiencing chronic pain and debilitating pain. The number of people, especially as you get 30 plus. And everyone thinks, oh, you're 30, you're 40. That's just what life is. That is not what life is. Nope. There are people walking around literally with herniated discs who are not reporting any pain.

And there are many, many reasons why our understanding of mental wellness and how we behave, actually, in this case, impact. I mean, this is perfect mind body. This is mind body syndrome. Howard Schubiner is another person will put his link also. Unlearn Your Pain is the book that I used as my workbook. It's a really cool workbook that you can go through if you are experiencing that kind of pain. So anyway, we wish Eliza very well on her journey towards continuing her healing.

If you have a question about mind-body syndrome or if you have a question about chronic pain, if you have a question about what is holding, how can you breathe into your pain? How does the act of breathing reset your pain? Go to beaulikbreakdown.com and ask my am anything. Yeah, do that. And also, I'm not going to do it. You might need help if section. Like, you might need help if you don't have the confidence of Eliza's Lessinger.

You might need help if you constantly worry about everything. You might need help if you're in chronic pain. You might need help if, well, I mean, that's kind of an understatement. But yes. I just wanted the eye roll. You got it. From my breakdown to the one I hope you never have. We'll see you next time.