Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Jalen Rose: Master Your Role

Episode Date: September 21, 2021

Jalen Rose (NBA player, NY Times best-selling author, NBA Countdown, Jalen & Jacoby, Get Up) opens up about the brotherhood of the Fab 5, the impact of stress from playing professional basketball on his mental health, and his undying love for the city of Detroit. He describes his childhood growing up in the segregated city of Detroit during a drug epidemic, his partnership and close bond with his mom, and how his entrepreneurial spirit was influenced by never knowing his NBA star father, Jimmy Walker. Jalen details his rededication to the game and self-discipline after getting kicked out of school, why he started looking up to public figures with flaws, and the feelings of unworthiness he experienced as a member of the Fab 5. Mayim and Jalen bond over the similarities between being an athlete and performer, and Jalen educates Mayim and Jonathan with his Guide to Trash Talk. They discuss their admiration for Simone Biles & Naomi Osaka, the life skills and mental health coping mechanisms that can be learned from playing sports, and the United States’ history of valuing entertainment over education. After Jalen opens up about the role faith plays in his life especially after the failed assassination attempt on his life, Mayim considers the balance between science and religion in another installment of Ask Mayim Anything. Jalen Rose Leadership Academy: www.JRLADetroit.com Jalen Rose Book: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/233840/got-to-give-the-people-what-they-want-by-jalen-rose/ BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you grow up in the hood in particular in the 70s and the 80s, you guys know this. You just play whatever sport that season is. Baseball season, we play baseball. And then football season, the exact same thing. Your physique is that of a vegetable player. I was a skinny kid in the neighborhood with bumps on his face and bad teeth. I think a long story. I remember getting tackled or whatever, and I chipped my tooth.

I started to look up to public figures who also had bad teeth and then So like too short, that was my God because I appreciated people that had their flaws like me, but it seems like they still, it didn't stop them from being successful. It's my ambiolic's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to be... Hi, I am I. Mialik and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to. We're going to do the heavy lifting here. Got a very exciting guest today. Jalen Rose. He's a very famous basketball player.

It's very exciting. But first, I'd like to introduce you to my favorite All-American, Jonathan Cohen. Hello, Ma'am. People are going to be confused. So confused. Because I carry my little Canadian flag here. But the All-American reference is to basketball players. That's right.

The high school All-Americans, the best of the best, get to play in the McDonald's classic. Is that? Yeah. Jalen Rose is widely considered to be one of the elite, hardest working talents in sports and entertainment media. He was in the NBA for 13 years. He's also a New York Times bestselling author. He was a member of the Fab Five at the University of Michigan,

and he was drafted by the Denver Nuggets in 1994. He went on to play for six NBA teams. Name them. Nuggets. Indiana Pacers. Indiana Pacers. Chicago Bulls. Chicago Bulls.

Raptors. We had them for a while. Toronto Raptors. Then he went to the, For one season to the Knicks, New York Knicks. Then he went to the Sons. That's right, and then he went to the Sons. He also does Jalen and Jacoby, great video series.

He's also just like an amazing NBA analyst now. Well, so he started his broadcast journalism career in the midst of his 2002 NBA season, and he went full throttle. That's right. His bio says full throttle by signing with ABCSPN after retiring in 2007. He covers a wide range of current events in sports and entertainment. I'm going to actually be on his podcast. We'll tell all of our friends about that. He is. He's a Renaissance man.

He also writes for The New York Post, which is awesome. He's spoken publicly about having ADHD. We actually don't cover it in the interview today, but he talks about a lot of things in a really sensitive and fleshed out way. He's very self-reflective. Yes. Great storyteller. It's very exciting.

I'm a huge basketball fan. You are as well, which we'll talk about with him. And it's just really, it's very exciting. We also, we talk about mental health and the impact of the, stress on mental health. He's a fascinating person and everybody needs to listen. That's all I have to say. I don't have anything else to say. I mean, I was a competitive, casual athlete, meaning like I was never thought that I would go anywhere with sports, but I always played a ton. And I always said that basketball was one of my greatest teachers. The level of dealing with

anxiety, being in the flow, when to sign effort, when to pull back, when to let things come to you versus assert yourself, how to move within like a flow state was all. a huge learning and I thought basketball reflected life for me so greatly. It's interesting because as a person who likes baseball and likes football, I mean, very much, and likes football very much and likes basketball very much, you know, the downtime you get in basketball is when you are impotent, meaning when you're benched, meaning you're not being used. So in football, it's a sport of stopping and starting.

I mean, like, I'm sure there's some amazing statistic for the longest play that I can't pull out of my brain right now, But it's a stop and start game. It's a game of inches. Like, literally, it's a game of inches. You stop, you start, this, that. Baseball is a game of waiting. You know, like most people who are on, I love comparing sports as like a thing.

So baseball, you wait all the time. That's why there's all those obsessive-compulsive things that they do because you're just waiting. It's a game of nail-biting and chewing tobacco, which is very bad for you. That's right. I said tobacco. But basketball is a game of flow.

Of flow. And you can go... And leads and rhythm change. I mean, I could talk all about it all day. But it's a very different mental state because you're also, you're part of a team and yet you can really in any position have a tremendous impact on the game at any given time.

One player can impact the game more, I think, in basketball. I'm feeling a little for clemph. That's how excited I am about this conversation. Many other sports. Before we talk to Jalen, two things to look out for. Number one, stick around to the end of the episode where the divine itself changes the lights in the background.

As we talk about divinity. And check out the new MBB Instagram page. Yes. At Biolic Breakdown. We're building a following. The Breakers have spoken. The Army of Breakers. That's right.

Army feels kind of hostile. Conglomerate. It's awesome. Corporation. All right. Collection of. Let's welcome Jalen Rose. Jalen.

Break it down. Thank you. Appreciate the love. Thanks for having me on. Oh my gosh. We're very excited. We've both been enjoying your book. We've enjoyed it so much that Jonathan took the cover off.

I lost the cover. He lost the cover. And I was like, I just saw it. And he's like, I don't know where it is. So this looks so tacky that we're showing you your book. That's dedication. That's exactly. That's how much we...

I have notes in the back. He got it all dirty. Like... Yeah. Appreciate the love. That's dedication. That's giving the people what they want. We need to give you a little bit of background here.

We're both very, very large basketball fans in general. I was born in 1975 and Jonathan was born in 79. So I grew up a Knicks fan because my parents are from the Bronx. And my father and I were Knicks fans. And I'm like the Patrick Ewing just like died in the blue and orange. Like I'm like a Spike Lee kind of a spectator. Like I grew up watching some fantastic Knicks. Disappointments.

You know what? That is really not nice. I grew up, I mean, we worship Patrick Ewing and his baseline jumper. Like, it was a holy thing. We would come home from synagogue on Russia Shana to watch the Knicks in the finals. Like, it was a very big deal. Jonathan, who is Canadian, and that's his own Toronto Raptor's story, we have a sports connection together because he's the closest I can come to dating an NBA star.

He's very tall in the Jewish community. He's a very skilled basketball player. And this is as good as it gets, Jalen. While Jalen is known for many things more than his stint on the Raptors, he'll always be a raptor to me. Thank you, bro. Appreciate the law.

He'll always be a Nick to me. How's that? Thank you. Appreciate the law. Okay. Enough of us. You wrote this book a handful of years ago. Yeah. But it really, it highlights some of the things that you are known for and some of the things that people best know you for, which is being very, very honest, very, very candid.

You are not only an accomplished and legendary player. You're also a sports expert and someone that people turn to for reflections and perspective about basketball and kind of sport in general. If you don't mind, like, tell us a little bit about your childhood. You grew up in Detroit, really heartland of America and the home of cars is what most people think about. But tell us a little bit about kind of growing up and, you know, keeping in mind that we're a mental health podcast. So we're very interested in any time you want to talk about your feelings. We can talk ball, but we can also talk feelings. Well, thank you very much for having me on.

And you must look at the story of me still and Patrick Ewan's TV. I told it on land 10 years ago. Ironic. It is iconic. My childhood, I was born in 1973, northwest side of Detroit. I didn't realize that not knowing my father wasn't normal because that was basically the entire neighborhood. So being in a single parent home didn't still different to me at all. And also in the early 70s, Detroit was still still.

at one of its apexes. The auto industry was flourishing. Also, motown sound movement with Barry Gordy. So Detroit became an epicenter in a lot of ways of the United States for people from the South, in particular, to migrate to come to Detroit and get jobs at the plant. And usually either right out of high school in particular,

you could go get one of those jobs that your family could be thriving. And also a part of my childhood was remnants of like the ending of, like, like segregated United States. You know, Detroit had the riots in the late 60s and a couple of notable riots that took place that kind of became reminiscent of my childhood

as it related to black and white relations because Detroit is a really segregated city in a lot of ways. And so once the 80s hit and the crack became something that infested the neighborhood in heroin and drugs, And all of a sudden, we started to see a lot of flight. We started to see a lot of families get affected by drugs, using and selling, a lot of people getting incarcerated.

A lot of the laws start changing under Reagan through Bill Clinton and the incarceration laws and three strike laws and things of that nature. And so we started to see a town that went from having two million people in the 60s and the 70s to be ravaged by drugs and violence to now it's currently a. town that had maybe 600,000 people show you the difference and how things have changed from then to not. Did you have this notion of like, I want to get out of here? Like, did it feel like what are the pathways out? Were you naturally athletic? Did you think of that as kind of like this is going to be a thing to, I don't mean get out

because that also sounds kind of strange. I know exactly what you mean. So being the youngest of four, two older brothers and a sister, they had a different. different father. And as I mentioned, my father played in the NBA was an all-star. It was the number one pick in the draft. And I never met him, never knew him, never talked to my mom about him, really until I started like getting a high school, never really brought him up. I was a kid that was a product of my environment. And usually, and notorious big one said, either you sling, crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot. So it became a choice in a lot of ways.

do I want to be an athlete? Do I want to be a student? Do I want to be a hustler? Do I want to be all three? Because you still need, in a lot of ways, to contribute to the family when you're poor. So there are times when if I'm an able body, you know, 11, 12, 13 year old

and my mother's lights getting cut off and we don't have hot water, I got to try to find a way to contribute just how it has to be. And some of that ends up being the wrong decisions And then it started an entrepreneur spirit for me where I started to not want to steal cars with my friends or not want to sell drugs because I saw everybody was doing it. And so I started to have a paper route. I started to shovel snow and cut people's grass, carry people's bags at the grocery store or pump gas at the gas station.

So I was one of those type of kids that felt like I knew I couldn't go to my mother to ask her for money because she was already struggling as a key puncher. working at Chrysler, working 40 hours a week, a single parent type of thing. And plus, she had a night job as well as a waitress. So there was times where I used to go to work with my mother. So I spent a lot of time in the bar environment when I was young, too. And that was one of my hustles, going to buy cigarettes from a cigarette machine, going to the store, warming up their cars, wiping off their cars in the wintertime, kind of assisting my mom.

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superpower. Superpower. Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just $199, but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional $20 off with the code break. Head to superpower.com. Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention Miami-Bi-Ox breakdown to help support the show. I mean, this might sound like a crazy question, but was it clear that, because you didn't, you didn't know who your, who your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your biological father was. And he finds out in a yeah, no, no, no, like, we'll get to that. We won't, we'll get to that. But was it like, oh my gosh, I'm really tall and I'm a really good athlete? Is it possible? My dad was a basketball player.

Like, did that occur to you? No, because when you grew up in the hood in particular in the 70s and the 80s, you guys know this. You just play whatever sport that season is. That's how this work. So during baseball season, we play baseball. We play fast pitch. We play softball. We play hard ball. We play with a tennis ball.

We play wiffle ball. During the baseball season, we play baseball. And then football season, the exact same thing. Okay, but your body type, your physique is that of a basketball player. I was a skinny kid in the neighborhood with bumps on his face and bad team. Like one of the times I was. I was playing on pick him up, mess him up. That's a football game.

And all of a sudden, it's like, it's touching, it's touch on the concrete, but it's tackle on the grass, especially in the wintertime. And so, make a long story. I remember getting tackled or whatever, and I chipped my tube. And I started to look up to public figures who also had bad teeth and embraced it. I sure did. So, like, too short, that was my guy. rapper? That was my man.

Because I appreciated people that had their flaws like me, but it seems like they still, it didn't stop them from being successful. You and me were the same person. I got messed up T too. Yeah, you know what I mean? And so, like, I used all of that. I was using all that as motivation. So basketball season came, yes, I was more dominant in basketball,

but I wasn't like I was the oldest, so it wasn't like all, I was the biggest or the strongest or the best. Because in the hood, at the part, it don't matter how old you are. Like, I'm tall and I'm 11 or 12. I got 22-year-olds trying to muscle me still. So that's kind of how I fell in love with sports. I was one of those kids that, you know, play whatever sport, whatever season that was happening.

Then as you get into your sort of mid-later teens, you start to take basketball more seriously. And there's an amazing moment where you're, I forget the exact team, but you're on a team, your brother comes to watch you, and you sort of have a decision to like get serious or not. You describe yourself as a bit of a joker. You clearly got skills, but you're like, you know, not utilizing them yet. Can you describe that moment where you're like, okay, I got to dial this in if I'm going to be real on this?

Well, a lot of things was happening during my middle school years because some puberty kicks in, some poverty really kicks in. And so I got into a couple of fights. And then after seventh grade, I got school. and they didn't allow me to come back. And so the period of time you talking about is a pivotal time in my life because either I could have went towards the streets

or I could rededicate myself to the game. And I just recall Sam Washington bringing me into the gym and like dusting off an old projector and saying, this is your father. He showed me my biological father. He was like he was the first guy doing spindwinkles. Like he had game.

It is. He went to Providence. Anybody look it up. Like, my biological father was one of the greatest basketball players in collegiate history. Like, he averaged like 35. Like, anybody from the East Coast asked him about Jimmy Walker.

Like, he's a legend in getting buckets. Right. And he was like, this is your father. You're messing around. Whatever, whatever. You don't got kicked out of school. Like, your life is about to be whatever,

whatever. And he didn't let me come to the camp that summer. And that killed me. Oh, man, I can't go to San Washington, summer camp. Oh, that killed me so much. And then so, like, once eighth grade happened, I started playing at, that summer, I started playing for the Super Friends.

And my brother came home from the military, and we were playing at Saginaw. And, like, I was on the team, but I wasn't like playing in my potential. I had just got kicked off the team. Like, it just wasn't a good summer. It was not a good song. You know, I was on punishment a lot.

It was just not a good something. And so we had a tournament. My brother came. It was like an hour drive. And we won. And I was celebrating with the team. You know, I played like two minutes. We won.

Hey, we're going to the national. My brother pulled me to the side. Like, let me tell you something. I just flew all the way here from Seattle and then drove two hours. And you out here cheering and y'all scored. And you ain't score? Like, no, we're not having it. And I'm going to tell you something.

That was in June. When we went to the nationals that year in August, I was an All-American. I play every day, every day. All day. I fell in low. Like, I'm about to start taking this serious. And then for my eighth grade, I went to a school called Precious Blood that was in my neighborhood. And somebody just reminded me of a game where our team had like 54 points.

and I had 42 of them. True story. And then that's just what led to me going to Detroit Southwestern, a legendary high school led by Perry Watt. Wow. What I love about that is you had raw talent. You had the ability, you didn't have the focus or the discipline yet, and it took all of that coming together for you to lock in,

and you're like this, you got that setback. You know, it's the pivotal in any. hero's journey. You got to get knocked down that one time before you, like, really put on your ass and you have that choice to make? Absolutely. And also the streets are always there, too. You know, you start getting exposed to drinking, 40 ounces. I've had a couple of old E's, some wild Irish rolls, some old English, some Cisco. You guys know, you know heard of those bottles before. Bad Dog 2020. I know I ain't speaking of foreign language to y'all. I know what you're talking about. I don't know what they drink up there.

north of the border. Just moose juice. Just moose juice. Life becomes a series of choices. And while I wasn't always making the best choices, it seemed like I always had divine intervention and some sort of faith and love from our family and from above that continued to guide me.

I do want to mention your name because your name, because of you, became one of the most popular boys' names in the 90s and early 2000s. And your name is your mother crafted it from the JA from James, right, for your father and her brother, Len, right? Correct. So all those people who teased you, they can go suck an egg. Suck an egg, all of you.

Suck an egg for teasing those of us with unusual names. There are players in the NBA now. named Jalen. Like it's really is super, super amazing. You went to Michigan. You had a college experience. Was that exciting for you? Were you like, yeah, I get

to go to college? Were you excited to play ball? Were you excited kind of for the whole experience? What was that like? I'm so very fortunate about my basketball experiences because the world got a chance to get introduced to me on an international stage at the University of Michigan.

I was really fortunate enough that I went to a storied high school as well and had a legendary high school career as well. So for me, I felt like I was on my way to be the next Magic Johnson. That's how I saw myself. Like my mother and I, who I lost in February, I miss her so much.

And we used to always joke that you could be the greatest of all time, but you'll never be better than magic. Because that was her favorite player. And now my favorite player. player. And so like going to Southwestern and winning a couple of city and state championships and being a McDonald's All-American and playing dominant in the Detroit PSL is all that matter to me because it was so many people that came before me, Spencer Haywood and Derek Comans and Steve Smith's, Doug Smith is like, once I get to Michigan, the world felt like we were

freshman or the stage was too big. We were like, it's our turn. We make a name for ourselves. Like, we crafted. We planned that. We were at the McDonald's All-American, those four of us. We made it to where we had in a joint jointed room. And we sat and talked and we made, we're going to go undefeated. We're going to win four championships. We're going to do everything. You know, like, and so once the five five happens, the beauty of it, and, And the reason why I saw organic, I'm so, for the people love our shop, to Ray, Jimmy, Chris, and Joanna is that we didn't realize that we were loved or hated. It was an ex-held.

It truly was. I was an inner-city kid. For me, I was like, I'm out the hook. I'm in Ann Arbor. Like, I'm riding past Bob Evans. Like, I'm going in there, getting food, eating, walking out without paying. I'm like, I like the summer. You know what I'm saying?

I got to always pay for my gas. Like you can pay for the gas and hit up. I'm like, you know, that's old school for your youngsters out there. But like, like it was organic. It's fun. And I'm just really grateful. What was it like leaving your mom? Because you were the youngest, yeah?

Yes. I'm curious. What was that like? Because obviously you have this really strong brotherhood, you know? And I think that's really beautiful. Like that's in my family. of what it's like when I play in the NBA. I have like this group of people and like,

they're my people. And like, that's who I hang out with and that's who I get to socialize with. But you also were very close with your mom. And I'm curious what that was like. Well, the number one thing seriously is that, like when you're the youngest and my sister, who's older than me is five years older than me, she had different iterations with like her kids.

So it's like my two brothers and then my sister than me being the youngest. And so it became a friendship, a partnership, more than just, you know, mother's son. Like there were times where I would try to do little things to contribute to her because I knew she worked really hard. We never had a clean in person or babysitter or stuff like that. And so I remember times when we had kerosene heaters in the house

because the heat was cut off or boiling water to take a bath. And I just remember taking her car when I was like 14. I didn't have my license to this gas station. She used to open it like 6.6.30 in the winter and trying to fill up the kerosene heaters and turn them on for so the house can be a little warmer for when she got up. Like stuff like that. I started to feel like I was her bodyguard. I needed to, you know, protect her and try to get out of the situation that we were in. So that became my motivation at Michigan.

that I'm not going to go too far away. So I took visits to UNLV and to Syracuse. Those are actually my favorite schools. I took a visit because they had Detroit players ball. Anderson was a final four MVP. He went to Detroit Southwest like my big brother. Derek Holman went to Syracuse, all in the final four, like my big brother.

And so like leaving my mother was good, but not too far because Ann Arbor was only, you know, 35 minute drive and she still could be at many as many games as possible. While there's so much beauty to, you know, to your college years, I do want to talk about something that you speak about in the book. And I feel like I knew this, but then I re-learned it again when I got to this part of your book. So Mitch Album is a writer. And I happen to have, I mean, I've read several of his books. He wrote Tuesdays with Maury and the five people you meet in heaven and, you know, he's a very, very skilled and really beautiful writer. In 1993,

and these are your words, he took it upon himself to seek out the father I hadn't had any contact with in 20 years. And on the eve of one of the biggest games of my career handed me a letter with no warning. So this is a very, very strange, and this is not, I'm not asking you to disparage, you know, Mitch Album. You're very, very kind to him. It's a bit of a shady thing to do. Okay, but no, no, but I don't want to be like, oh, we're going to talk about how shady that was. I'm curious, kind of like the impact of that because you had already shouldered so much. I mean, you had shouldered so much responsibility from the time that you were a kid. And you were entering a phase of your life where you were about to enter the NBA, you know, in not very long.

And this bit of information then becomes available to you against your will. what did that feel like? Meaning like what was the impact for you? Like how do you consolidate that information? I felt violated. And how about this? To this day, I'm probably the only person that's been featured in the bestselling

that has never read it. To this day, I've never read the file. I try not to like take things personal. Now as a media member, I see what he was trying to do. But also as an adult, thinking back to a young impressionable mind, I understand it can have the same adverse effect. And I realized that it did have that effect. And so I didn't appreciate that.

And so much so that I kept a letter for like six or seven years carried it around with me like Linus in the blanket. And I never even opened it. So imagine if I wasn't ready to open it for six or seven years after I got it, I definitely wasn't ready for whatever was in it when he gave it to him. Well, it just speaks so much to our mental clarity when we're doing anything. Sports is like the highest level of that for me. It's like a reflection of the rest of our lives. Like when, and I think now it's more understood than ever before,

but it used to be, I don't know, like 20, even 30 years ago. It was all about who's got the best physical ability. Right. Versus now the mastery, the mental mastery of the game, the mental mastery of yourself, getting in the flow, understanding how, and like to have something come out of the blue like that. Well, and I think also part of that is a product of the culture that we grew up in. I remember the day that Magic Johnson announced his retirement.

It was like I was at work. I was an actress when I was again. The whole world stopped. to watch that press conference. But I remember that, like, I didn't know anything about Patrick Ewing. Like, I didn't know anything about Larry Bird, really. Like, there was a new era that evolved as we were young

where you started learning about that these are people. And, like, I don't mean to get all emotional, but I will. Like, this is something also that, you know, Spike Lee would talk about a lot. Like, this is not property that you get to shuffle around for your amusement. there are human beings playing this game. And I think that this era has opened up now where we get to see all the levels of our athletes. There's a mental process. I mean, exactly what you said.

It's not just about, oh, you can score the most baskets. Like, and Michael Jordan was the next, you know? I mean, Bo was the next of that. Like, these are people. They're multifaceted people. Jalen will know this. I listen to a lot of the ringer and listen to Raja, talk a lot. And they get into like the emotionality of trades and how that impacts players.

And, you know, I don't think we're done this topic. But, Jalen, you moved around a lot. Obviously, the 2000s final series is massive. And I'm very curious about like how you, how players reorganize their thinking after a series like that. Most of the players don't get to pick the journey. You don't get a chance to pick where you play. You definitely don't get a chance to pick when it is. So there are only a few, you know, Tim Donkins and Kobe Bryant's

that get called their shot. And then there's what you hope to be, and that's a veteran. That's somebody that's able to reinvent themselves based on their role. The team, like right now, look at a player like Russell Westbrook. The last couple of years, while averaging the triple-double, he still had to reinvent himself. That's a life skill that's taken from sports. That's one of the reasons why encourage young people to play sports

because of the life skills, the social skill, to teach you how to deal with success, how to deal with failure, how to deal with your anxiety, how to deal with your depression. It teaches you all of those lessons. And everybody's judging you at the same time. They're cheering every play.

They're booing every play. They're writing about every play. They're posting about every play. Every clip is a highlight. everybody trying to go viral. So who and I, nah, nan, na, na, nah. It's like, wow, sports teaches you so much so fast. And so once you get to the professional level,

you got to understand if you get traded from Indiana to Chicago and the Bulls have the worst record in the league, at that time it wasn't me saying, well, I'm not going. It's like, all right, I'm going to be there and I'm going to play tomorrow night. And that year, I play 83 games. in matter of fact now I think about that they owe me a game check you know what I'm saying I just not thought about that and so like you just you just have to have to reinvent yourself

you have to be a professional and you have to master your role and this is another life skill like when you look in yourself fear do you see yourself with honesty or do you see your representative not not facing reality and so those are the times as a professional athlete that you use those life skills to still find a way to go and perform and be your best because that's your job. You and I are the same person, Jalen. We're the same person. I feel the same way about being a performer because it's true. It's like, I have to do my job whether you watch it or not. I have to do my job whether you

watch the rerun or not. I have to show up and no matter what is going on around me, and I remember I worked, my father, I remember this, my father died while I was working on the Big Bang Theory. Like, that was a thing that happened and you don't get a week off. You don't get to, like, I had a horrible car accident. I had to, like, I went to work, like, on the drugs, you know, like, I still couldn't feel my arm. But I wanted to say, this is a great place to lead into one of the really, like, your book's really fun. There's fun things. Jaylin's friendly guide to trash talking. And I'd like to talk about this because, because two reasons. Jonathan and I, well, I watched it twice, but Jonathan and I just watched the Malice at the Palace about the, you know, the Detroit pace.

Like, it was, it's a great documentary. And so I had already seen it. And then we watched it again. And one of the really interesting parts that O'Neill was talking about is like the, and Stephen Jackson was also talking about it too. A lot of people don't understand when they look at games that like, y'all know each other. and there's a certain amount of gameplay that we like to watch as the public, but it's not always just what you want as if you're watching on a TV screen. There's people interacting on a court.

And so that's the first reason I wanted to kind of talk about your five points of trash talking because it's terrifying to me when I see trash talk. I mean, I also, I don't watch hockey for this reason because I don't believe fighting belongs in a sport unless it's box. So that's the first reason. The second reason is Jonathan and I trash talk each other all the time. I've never dated a person who talks so much trash, but it's I totally like it's fun. I sometimes get my feelings hurt. But I was your mistake. Very early on, she said to me, never let a joke pass. So he let them all go. For the first time in my life, I'm in a relationship with someone where it's just brutal. It's so brutal. brutal. And I'm like, is this what it's like to be an NBA player? I just trash talk. So your guide to trash talking. Number one, respect your opponent. Number two, be prepared to deal with the consequences.

Number three, nothing is out of bounds. Number four, do your research. It pays off. Number five, win. This is very dangerous, Jalen. Yes. And first off, the respect your opponent part really is. you can watch to the edge of the pool, but there's certain things, they're just out of bounds. The significant others, the kids, you know, like, you know, negative moms

and someone's family, like those things are out of bounds. And that those are the things that actually lead to the altercations when it goes too far. That's what it's like, oh, seriously, you're going to go there? Oh, it's like that

and then push, push, push, and boom. Basically, that's how things escalate when you go too far with your trash talk. But also, you do have to do your research because it's like an audience. So like when the NBA started back, you noticed there was some altercations where the fans went too far, right?

Throwing bottles at players and spitting on Tray Young at the garden. No. Like players, like the audience went too far. This is why I did a guide to trash talk. Here's where you know it goes too far. either when you're, with multiple curse words and name call. Like, chance have always been creative.

Chance defense or whatever, like, and you can be mean if you're funny. Like, at the garden, you know, like, they have some clever chance for players, and you do that around the league. And so it rarely escalates, though. It rarely does. So this is actually, I'd really like to ask you about this because it's also been current in the sports world. And I will watch any sports documentary.

So I've pretty much seen all of them. And I remember that, you know, I was raised, you know, my dad grew up playing stick ball in the street. And, you know, like, racquetball was the most sophisticated sport in my family. Because, like, that's just we couldn't afford other sports. And that's what we did. And basically, like, you know, playing ball against a wall was. like our idea of a good time. You know, my dad raised me to be a good loser, not because I was bad at

things, but just it was considered gentlemanly, you know, and I don't mean to use a gendered term, but my dad was born in 1942 and you'd be a good winner, you'd be a good loser. Like, that's the thing. And when I was in college, I learned from the person that I eventually married and had kids with and were divorced. You know, we never boo the other team. And I loved that because we were the fiercest Patriots for the Bruins, but I didn't, I loved it. I never booed the other team. Did we tease the other team? If someone didn't air ball, every time he got the ball, we would scream air ball, fine. But what I've noticed is that as our culture has gotten more aggressive, meaning I've been given the finger more times driving for things that usually in the old days, people just would have been like,

whoa, let's give a little honk, you know? People, people are so aggressive now. actively. And I think it's extended to sports and I think it's disgusting. But the question I wanted to ask you is I just watched the Naomi Osaka documentary. And, you know, I, obviously Simone Biles has been in the press for comments about mental health. And there's this kind of like, I go back and forth where on the, and I remember when Dennis Rodman was playing, you know, and like we had never seen someone like Dennis Rodman. And we were like, you know, he's so unusual and this. And like, he's got this and we were scrutinizing everything he did and it got to be a lot and then when you see meta and you see him talking in this documentary about the impact that this pressure had on him and

what was going on with him i want to know like does this trash talking like is there a point that you have to be a certain amount of strong and resilient can you be a sensitive vulnerable person and still compete at this level like and i'm not asking you to like fix it but you know people say to me like like, oh, aren't you proud of, you know, insert athlete here for talking about mental health? And I say, absolutely, but you're up against challenges that are exceptional. The pressure is enormous. And I don't know how you just said.

Like, I mean, META said, he's like, I didn't know what to do. So I laid down, you know? What's your take on that? And I love Simone Bias and Naomi Osaka, and I applaud their courage because. It's now being acknowledged about mental health issues and PTSD. Those just things we didn't talk about in the 80s, in the 90s. They existed. I went up for a slam dunk in high school, got clothesline, fell on the back of my head,

went into convulsions and got carried off in an ambulance. There has to be some lingering effects of that. from the streets of Detroit, Minsky. And I've seen and heard a lot of stuff for a young impressionable mind. And so sports is an escape, just like acting is an escape, but it's not, it doesn't make you exempt.

And it creates more pressure. Just imagine being Simone Bowles. In basketball, I could miss a shot. I can have a turnover. She got to stick to land and get a 10. Imagine that everything you did all day had to be a 10. Like, have you ever really watched, like, the routine?

I think, like, how do you practice that? I think that, too. What's the first time you try and do that quadruple? You got to fall. I know what I'm saying? Like, how do you practice that? Like, that's different. Like, that level of pressure, that level of concentration, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that that's way different than, like, being a basketball player, a football player, you can get penalties.

An actor, you just, hey, cut, do it again, do it again, do it again, do it again, right? They get one time to do it. And so, they're so very young, too. Like, how old are they? I remember being a member of the FAB-5, and I just told this story recently, we were about to do an interview on CBS, and all five of us were sitting there

was out of practice, and I remember thinking, man, I'm broke, my skin is bad, my teeth are bad, I don't have a haircut. Like, I don't really want to do an interview on CBS right now. Like, do I even deserve to be here right now?

And so I understand what they go through with such young minds having to make adult professional decisions. Like life changes when all of your bills are in your name. That's what life change. When all of your bills are in your name. And for them, that happens young. Man, that happens young. Like 18, 19, 20.

And then the other thing about Simone Biles, she continues to work at a place where she was assaulted by Larry Nasson. That's a whole other, yes. Right. So she still goes into the same environment, performs her task in that same environment that allow her to be assaulted. Do you think there's a component here of inequality about attention because of our relationship with black people in this country? Inequality. Meaning, I feel like if a lot of the pressures and things that it happens,

to these athletes had happened to white athletes, I think people would have been interested before, this kind of notion of like, well, this is what they're supposed to do. They're supposed to play, and I don't want to hear it. I'll tell you, that's two words. In no particular order, jealousy and money. That's all it is.

Like, we live in the United States of America. I can't help that you guys value sports more than you value education. You pay me millions of dollars to play basketball, but you won't pay teachers $100,000 to educate your kids. But you pay to be entertained, right? And so what ends up happening is you get treated as property based on your salary. I remember being a college athlete and trying to figure, like, while we're not getting paid for our name, image, and likeness, Well, now since it's happened in 30 years later, 30 years later,

I remember people that I either now work with or see them in the public eye that have either changed their stances because they were like the public. And what did the public say? Just shut up and be happy you got a scholarship. Oh, if I was you, I wouldn't be complaining. You got somebody giving you X amount of dollars paying for your education. Like, I'm paying for my education with my talent. What are you talking about?

That's how America works. And so I think there was also a jealousy factor from the public that envy the kind of money. Oh, they can pay millions of dollars just to play a sport. Well, that's, and that's what happened with Malice at the Palace. I mean, I won't say what Stephen Jackson said. But there was this notion also of like, why are they behaving like this? You know, and every, I mean, the documentary does it so well. It's like thugs, thud, they're such thugs.

They need to clean up their act. And it's like, it's such an example of a larger injustice. The last thing I wanted to ask you about is one thing I really appreciated about your book, and I think there's a special sensitivity to it, especially because of who your dad was and how, how that came to be, which is not my business. But there's a real sensitivity in your book to the flashy things. things that a lot of people want to hear about. And several times in the book, you kind of answer the question for people. And, you know, as a person who is a diehard sports lover and also a very

strong feminist, I do have a lot of conflict about the way we talk about women, especially, you know, in the realms that you know people are interested. And I do really appreciate that you're reasonably respectful, you know, meaning you don't talk about expletable. You know, you don't talk about exploits and things like that. And it's really, it's not my business, but I appreciate that you addressed it kind of like, we're not going to talk about this. But one of the things you do talk about and not in a gratuitous way is money. You know, as someone who grew up, um, where we did not have enough water often for it to be hot, you know, for more than one human. Um, I really appreciate the way you speak about money because, you know, you said white people call it staff, right? But if,

if you're black, it's, oh, your entourage. But you specifically said, that there were about 20 people, so let's just call it, you know, a baker's two dozen or so, that you felt, I mean, it makes me very emotional, that you felt a specific obligation, you know, to kind of address. And it's not like, oh, here's the things I bought for this person. Like, it was really sweet. Your mom didn't want a house, you know, like, you finally had to convince her to, like, do a condo. But can you talk a little bit, not from a, like, flashy, tell me how much you spent kind of way, but in that sense, because, like, I have a love-hate relationship, with money, you know? It does a lot of beautiful things and can help a lot of people,

but it can also be your downfall and the God that you worship in this culture, you know. What did it, what was it like kind of in terms of, you know, if you think about like your mental health, meaning what you wanted to give back? What was that like? And was that just like, did you make a list? Did it just sort of start happening? Like, how did that work? It's a part of the dream. It's a part of the goal. And The one thing I always try to talk to young people about is endurance. Like even just look at like going to school, like K through 12 and then a couple of years of college. Before you know it, that's 15 or 18 years of your life.

That's real equity. A lot of things change. A lot of turbulence happens in somebody's life. So it becomes a part of the dream initially that I'm going to make it big. and when I make it big, I'm going to do all of these amazing things for the people to help me get there. And in my situation, most of those people were poor or broke once I got there. So it's different when you walk across the stage and you get drafted and your family already lives in the suburbs versus you're trying to move your entire family to the suburbs.

It's almost like, what's the show? It's almost like the Beverly Hill buildings. Right. You know, those visuals, I have those mental visuals watching me and my family move to the suburbs in our own sort of way, right? And your relatives and your friends. And what you end up learning is maintenance and managing those situations. A lot of times become a part. of a fracture that can take place in those relationships because of what you just alluded to, because some people expect you to take care of them forever. Like, this ain't retirement. Yeah, I was going to say it's sometimes it doesn't end.

Right. This ain't retirement. And I was saying this to somebody the other day. If you ever run across somebody on the face of this earth that says that they know me or they are a former friend of mine, and or they don't like me, ask them how much money have I ever given them. Okay, those are the people that hate me the most. They hate me the most.

You know, people that I reached in my pocket and gave my Benjamin Franklin's too to try to help them feed themselves and put them in position for their goal. But in all honesty, you got to, the goal has to be to teach people how to fish. And unfortunately, you can't want it for your family and or, friends more than they wanted for themselves. So everybody got to have a plan, work to plan, try to put them in position to chase their goals. People think, oh, they get paid to play a game. You guys put in work, crazy work. After all the years on the court, what does your body feel like now when you wake up in the morning? That's a great question. And one of the reasons why I retired

is because I had bad tendinitis in my knee and I had a partial tear in my right ACL. And to the this day, I still not have it, I still haven't had it operated on. Right? So as a left-handed player jumping off of my right leg. That's right. So my right knee is jacked up. If I, if I do some squats or whatever, it's like, you can hear like, like lightning and clouds. It's called Crepitus. That's the critical term. Crippis. Um, my left, left-handed player, so my left shoulder, just wearing, tear, shooting the ball, dribbling the ball, being left-hand dominant, that type of thing. shoulder. I broke my left hand before. And it was my fourth metacarpal. So I have a plate

and five screws in my hand. I got a bionic hand. The plates hold my hand together or it'd be shattered. So I guess I can never go to a bar and get into a bar fight because I'm going to have to hit the person with a bottle or something or my hand be shattered, right? I'll fight for you, Jalen. I'll fight. You take me the bar. I fight for you. I appreciate that. And so like the Those are just like casualties of battle. But to be honest with you, I'm extremely healthy. I'm really fortunate, psychologically, physically, emotionally, financially.

So I'm really, I'm really fortunate. And you have kids, yeah? Yes. My oldest is a senior at the University of Georgia. Her name is Mariah. She's the next great super broadcaster and entertainer. She's in their school of broadcast. She's doing great.

The youngest is Gracie. She's a sophomore. She plays volleyball. They both in Georgia. She's doing her thing. She's spiking on people. She's going to break somebody knows this year. Respectfully.

Respectfully, within a sport, within a sport, just spiking on them, just spiking. But no, like, I'm really fortunate. I'm glad you guys do this on mental health, too. And I'm glad you guys acknowledge that because as we're around the same age, there was a period of time with, like, just, you know, just toughen up, just shut up. That's right.

You're being thought. You being weak. You know, and I can use a lot of the terms that we know are derogatory that I shouldn't use that people will call you as well. And so this gives people the courage to be the best version of themselves and express themselves. So thank you guys. While we love you as a basketball player, we also love you as a media member. I listen to a lot of Jalen and Jacoby.

Love your takes on things. We could spend all, you know, another. hour, which we won't on what's going to happen this NBA season. No, no fanboying. I'm going to be listening to him on YouTube and hearing his shoutouts. I'll come back on during the season. Oh my gosh. There we go.

We need a second podcast because the two of us watching basketball together is hysterical. No, she's extremely animated. I take videos of her watching and she's like, you can't even imagine what she's like. She's screaming, she's sweating. I also, let's just stop.

about it. I love baseball. Like, I was raised a Yankees fan. My parents were born in the Bronx. Like, my father was born in the middle of the war, like Jackie Robinson. Like, that's what I was raised on. So like, I love baseball. I'll sit and watch 86 innings with a beer and a veggie dog. I'll watch that all day. I love football, but basketball, I mean, that's where my energy is. I lose my mind. I cry. She goes horse by the end of the game. Oh, it's insane. Anyway, okay, All right. Rapid Fire with Jalen Rose. What was your mother right about? If you can't talk to me, you can't ask me for anything.

It's a good one. That is a good one. What's the location in the world that promotes your best mental health? Detroit, Michigan, my hometown. It seems like when I'm there, it's just home. Like, I love being in California and I love being in New York and I love being in Florida. but Detroit has done so much for me, and it still has so much potential and promise that I want to see happen.

So definitely being in Detroit. I love that. Do you have a mantra, like one thing that you say to yourself? People come into your life for four reasons. To add, subtract, multiply, or divide. Choose wisely. Woo! Nice.

I love that. Who's been your best spiritual teacher? The man above, definitely. I don't talk about it a lot publicly. Everybody chooses to approach how they deal with their faith or whatnot. But I have extremely strong faith. I'm a God-fearing man. And I do all things through him.

Who are you most competitive with? I'm most competitive with myself. I'm my toughest critic. And I embrace my critics. Like I'm not, I'm not, I'm the kind of person to tell people that sometimes your critics are right. And I pay attention to the noise. I don't, I don't ignore the noise. And I'm willing to continue to work to get better.

And sometimes like, I like the fuel that knowing, to be honest with you, sometimes I like, sometimes. I'm fueled off the fact that there are people that have never met me that don't like me. Same. We're the same person, Jalen. We're the same person. Last question. What's been your moment of best intuition when you were like, I made the right decision because my gut told me to do that? To go to Michigan.

A lot of people don't realize. I wore number 42 in high school. That's right. My biological father wore 24. And I did it out of spite. And I was like, he going to know my name one day. I'm going to be the opposite to him. I'm going to be better than him.

I'm going to do everything, everything, everything. So I'm going to wear the opposite number. And so when I got to Michigan, I was trying to release that negativity. And plus, I wanted a single number. I'm like, I need a single digit. I'm 6'8. We're running a point. Magic was 32.

I got to do that, no doubt. And then what actually happened, though, Chris Weber was the fourth person to commit. And he wore 44 in high school. And first we were talking about getting 14 and 15. And I didn't want to be a point guard wearing 15 because I love Earl to Pearl so much. I was like, I can't be, I can't be acting like I'm Earl to Pearl. I didn't know what I'm forget that. And so he took four and I was the fifth person to sign my letter of intent. That's how I got number five. Wow. I do want to ask one more thing because it's very unpopular to talk about God. And I'm a person that has chosen to do it because you and I are the same person.

So I did want to ask because when you say that you're a God-fearing person, I use that phrase. And, you know, as a person who speaks Hebrew and reads the Old Testament and, you know, studied biblical Hebrew, like there's a very specific concept to living. It's not so much, it's not just fear. It's also awe, meaning to be in a state of wonder about, the fact that we exist, the gifts that we've been given, the challenges that we've been given. And the notion is not to fear like, oh, someone's constantly going to strike me down

if I say a bad word or that kind of, you know, being consumed by fear. But the notion that I always know that I didn't create this, I don't really have control over it. And everything I do is to literally be an example of something that is always going to be larger, more power, and hopefully holds more capacity for good than I do. Can you talk a little bit just about that concept of fear?

And, you know, are you a person that, like, prays every day, or you just kind of have this notion of, you know, a God in heaven? What does it feel like for you? Yes, ma'am, since you're asking me, I will. Absolutely. So the Lord and church and coming from a family of faith has always been a part of my life. I was essentially raised by my grandmother and my mother. And I lost my grandmother less than two years ago, and she was 103.

Wow. When I was young, we went to church every Sunday. It was not an option. And that became just as important as anything else. It became just as important as school. It became just as important as sports. If you don't take care of one of the three or two of the three, one of the two or the three, they just ain't just going to happen.

That's just how it was. And I remember one time when I was getting in trouble in school, like around fifth and sixth grade, I went to St. Sicilia. And that's the basketball mecca of Detroit. And I got in trouble. My mother took me off the team. And, you know, one of the things I didn't understand is not only just took me off the team, but she told me God told her to take me off the team. You know, I'm like, you know, a guy, oh, boy, hold on that. Did he say that?

Hey, hold on. Like, me and you're supposed to have our own relationship. Like, what's going on here? And like any kid that's ever slammed the door behind their parents, who I hate you, you know, whatever, whatever, it's the same thing. But what I started to learn to do is be faithful and be consistent and be still and know that he's got. One of my first tattoos when I was really young,

says God's favorite. Like, I have a faith side of tattoos. I have one with a cross, this bleeding. This says, seek the truth and says salvation underneath. I have angels on the back of my forearm. And on the inside, I have it, like, God's face. Yeah. That's God's favorite.

Same. We have the same tattoos. How did that happen? Exactly. Let me tell you something. On the way to this interview today, I was riding of Sunset Boulevard

I passed Barrington in Bel Air at that light in September 3rd of 2002 or 2003 I survived an assassination

carjacking attempt at that corner it's in the book right at that corner I stopped at that light right before that 30 minutes before you saw. And I have those forensic pictures of that Bentley that got hit with a 9 millimeter nine times.

Got hit with a 9 millimeter nine times. And my longtime friend, Rory, who was in the car with me, the bullet hit the headrest and by the grace slowed down, as they said, and went into his cheek and then went into his neck. and driving that car with your good friend bleeding everywhere and the car smoking everywhere and realizing that I'm not dead, like there is a guy.

He's brought up all through stuff that we don't recognize. Your example might not be as vivid as mine, but what you don't realize is, it probably happened five minutes after you left or a few minutes before you got. out there. Grace. I mean, that's what the word grace is. We say there but for the grace of God, go I, right? My oldest daughter middle name is Christian. And since you just said grace, my youngest daughter's name is Sophia Grace. We call her grace. You're amazing. And I am so grateful

that you came to talk to, like, I couldn't believe it. When they said we got you, I was like, what? And I'm going to get to talk to you for your podcast. We'll set that up so that we can talk about all good things Jeopardy. But what a, what a blessing you are. And it's just, it's so, it's so beautiful to get to have this conversation with someone that we've both watched. You're a tremendous legend, but the power of like your heart and your words and your experiences is just so tremendous.

And this was amazing. Speaking of this podcast, Jalen, tell us where we can find your stuff, as I say. Anywhere you get a podcast on Apple or Spotify, check out The Renaissance Man. I also write a column each week in the New York Post. I can't wait to have you on my show. And not only am I going to interview you, but I'm going to give you a framed copy of what they put in the post that week to show my gratitude. Stop it. Each one of the guests.

Absolutely. The New York Post is next to the Bible for me. That's amazing. Got your back. No question. I got your back. All right. One day we do a lobster dinner with Jail.

I do not eat lobster. I'm kosher. You missed that part of the Old Testament, my friend. I'll tell you this. Whether you guys are watching sports, whether it's Jeopardy, let's make sure we catch up. We love you. Thank you. This is so awesome.

Thank you. God bless you. You take care. God bless you as well. Y'all have a good. We got to peek behind the curtain of like Jalen Rose. He told us all the crazy stuff that his body has endured. word over the years. I want to know what does it feel like in the morning when he first opens

his eyes. He must to open his eyes and think, I'm Jalen Rose. This is amazing. I think he opens his eyes and is like, uh, my shoulder, and then he like warms it up. And then he's like on to his day. I think it's kind of creepy that you keep wanting to know what it's like when he wakes up. Because that's what the body hurts the most. I just, I love how he talks about his family and his mom. And I just loved everything about it. His glasses? Why is he so cool? You want to get the same glasses as I'm? I think I should. I mean, we're the same person.

It's only fitting. He's also the founder of the Jalen Rose Leadership Academy, which is an open enrollment, tuition-free, public charter school in his hometown of Detroit. Love his love for Detroit for his hometown. The school's mission is to empower scholars to develop strength of character, skills, and knowledge needed to matriculate. Ooh, it's fancy. So that they have opportunities to be successful in the competitive world and take care of themselves

and the people they love. have a 97% graduation rate, 100% college and post-secondary acceptance, and they're the number one rank for open enrollment high schools in Detroit for college matriculation. I mean, I haven't used that word in a minute. He seems to be a really genuine person. I know that athletes have to have foundations and they have to do this and they talk about giving back, but he seems really, he seems like a very genuine person. So obviously I didn't know him before this interview at all, meaning like I've never spoken to him. Really? We've never hung out. Oh, that's weird. Okay.

But I read the Bill Simmons intro, and Bill Simmons just talks about what an amazing human being he is and how much people enjoy being around him. And when I read that, I'm just like, wow. He's very charismatic. Yeah. Very charismatic, very authentic. Yeah. And, you know, I believe Bill Simmons. What am I going to say?

Well, and also, I should say, you know, there's also, there's stuff in his book about his love for cars and, like, his bracelet that was, like, expensive as a house and, you know, all the things. things that he did and bought. But very interesting. He has a very interesting lens also. The book is really, really enjoyable. It's called Got to Give the People What They Want by Jalen Rose. As you mentioned, he has ADHD. We didn't even get to cover it.

We get a lot of requests to talk about ADHD, adult ADHD, how brains are different between different types of people who may have that condition. If you want to ask why I'm a question, you can do so at biolicbreakdown.com. That's B-I-A-L-K-D-D-D-com. And check out the Instagram page at Bialik Breakdown. Let's do an ask why am anything. Okay, I was thinking of trash-talking you. Oh, let's do that first.

No, no, it's fine. No, it's going to get mean fast. He said you can't talk about people's mom. That's my favorite thing to give you shit about. So you're already doing it wrong. Oh, I've done my research. That's trash talk right there. You're so sensitive.

I can't even pick on you about your mom. Why are you so sensitive, bro? You're not allowed a name call. That's another thing. Your head's a funny shape. What type of funny shape is it? It's got a weird shape in the rack. That's why I wear my hat.

Your hair fell out in a weird pattern. Why you shave it? What else keep going? This is good. You're doing well. What about my extra ankles? Should I be writing your trash talking? I say that Jonathan's essentially a newborn giraffe.

And I say he has gorilla arms because I literally think they hit the ground. You'll be like, oh shit, I wish you could reach that thing. He's like, go, go gadget arms. It can reach anything. Sometimes I say you want to put some food through that hole where your tooth should be. Oh, that went too far. This game is over. I'm a very aggressive athlete back in the day.

Just aggressive. I am. I'm very aggressive. Who are you most competitive with? You. I'm the only person who when I asked that question. of our guests, like, oh, who are you most competitive with? Myself. That's not true.

What are you competitive with me about? Name it. What are you got? My height? Yes. I mean, I can't compete about it. I have envy about it. My deep soothing voice. You do have a very nice voice. What else? This is really, really delightful, and there's no one I would rather talk to Jalen Rose with than you.

Thank you, Ma'am. We have an asked Ma'am anything or no? No. But Cassandra asks, do you find it difficult to balance science with religion? No. I myself am more agnostic, but find it encouraging when people combine humanity with their faith. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm happy to speak to that. Also, I'm happy to direct people.

I did a YouTube video about, you know, science and God or religion and God. It is a famous saying that I got from my rabbi. He did not say it, but he passed it on. If you think that the Bible is a science book, I've got better science books for you. It's not a science book, and even the most religious people don't believe that it is. I'm speaking for religious people. The notion of truth is a very amorphous one in all religion and really in our existence in general. And everything I've ever learned about science makes me sure that I couldn't create it and can't change it.

And everything that I've learned about religion has given me a way to appreciate the world of science with tremendous awe and trembling. I'm floored by the mysteries of the universe. And to me, I call that divine, and you don't have to. That's a really good answer. Why, thanks, Jonathan. Thank you, Cassandra, for asking. Thank you, Cassandra. Wow, what a great day.

We got to meet Jalen Rose. Can't complain about that. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have, we will see you next time. It's my and Bialics breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One, fix you one.

And now she's going to...