Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Jodie Sweetin: My ADHD is a Superpower

Episode Date: January 10, 2023

Jodie Sweetin (Full House, Fuller House, Craft Me a Romance) discusses her work as “Stephanie Tanner” on Full House, living with ADHD and how she thinks it has helped her, and the importance of showing up as the parent you needed to have yourself. She explains how therapy and sobriety allow her to be a better parent and the importance of honesty in a parent-child relationship. Mayim and Jodie consider the need for prison reform after Jodie opens up about being adopted as a baby after she was born within the prison system. They discuss coping mechanisms in nature vs nurture and share their earliest childhood memories. Jodie reveals the top 5 things that keep her centered and ways she redirects feelings of wanting to run away into efforts of self-care.   Jodie Sweetin's memoir, unSweetined: https://www.amazon.com/unSweetined-Memoir-Jodie-Sweetin/dp/1439152691 BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I have a great middle child story from Full House. There's an episode in Full House where Jesse and Becky are moving out of the house. Okay. When Jesse moved into the house, he moved into Stephanie's old bedroom. Correct. With the pink bunnies. Now, the pink bunnies were supposedly hand cut by Pamela, Stephanie's mom, Jesse's sister. Michelle gives Jesse the pink bunny or vice versa.

Something happened. And I was like, who? Wow. But does not, I actually know what it's like to be a middle child. It's my ambioch's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. Because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down.

It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down. Hi, I'm I and Bialik and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to. Today, we are going to talk about so many things. And actually, this is an episode where I have some aha moments. And I'm a person who I don't like to think I know everything, but it's kind of hard to shake the foundation of a lot of things that I've explored a lot, particularly in therapy. And we have someone today who really kind of shook things up for me.

We're going to be welcoming Jody Sweeten, that's Stephanie Tanner on Full House and Fuller House. But first, the person who shakes things up for me on the daily, Jonathan Cohen, hello. Hello, Ma'am. You have a lot to discover still. You don't have it all figured out. That's okay. Jonathan, you're coming to us today from your studio at the border of Oregon and California. Is that correct? That's true. Here I am again. And did they have full house in Canada? I'm going to admit it. I was a big full house fan. I like that show. I watched it as a kid. Did you say, look at those funny Americans. They're so funny.

No, I was, I liked the intro credit sequence and I'm like, this is a pleasant little town. I didn't know with San Francisco at the time. I like the music. Everywhere you don't. We're in San Francisco. Yeah, that's burned in there. That's burned in there. We talk about many things with Jody Sweeten.

I hope that this is kind of a different lens with which to look at her. She talks a lot about, obviously, her work. on full house and what it was like essentially growing up in the industry literally from the time like almost as early as she can remember she was on that show and working she shares very intimately her story she was adopted as a baby she talks a lot about that transition in her life what she's learned in therapy about the times that she may not even necessarily consciously remember she doesn't just talk the talk she walks the walk and I really have a tremendous amount of of respect for her and I learned a lot. This is a very interesting one. I got some new perspective

on my experience in my life that I don't think I've had before. I also do want to mention that she recently was in two holiday films. She works a lot. Merry Swiss Miss on Lifetime at a cozy Christmas Inn on the Hallmark Channel. That's right. This is someone who makes movies both on Lifetime and the Hallmark Channel. She's executive producing and starring in the rom-com Just Swipe. She just wrapped production on Craft Me a Romance out later in the year. She's has a podcast, never thought I'd say this. She's also been a recurring guest co-host on the talk and E's Daily Pop regularly. Honestly, I think we got a taste of why that is today. You know what I like about Jody? What do you like about Jody Sweeten? She checks in on me. She really checks

in on me in this episode. And, you know, I got to say, I didn't hate it. You know, Jonathan, I happen to think that I check in on you plenty, but I'm very glad that you felt taken care of of by Jody. I did. She also wrote a memoir Unsweetened. She's an activist in many, many areas. She's a mom of two, and it's really, really a pleasure to welcome to The Breakdown here in person with Jonathan on a screen, Jody Sweeten. Break it down. Jody, welcome to the breakdown. And it's very exciting to sit with you, because first of all, you look amazing and you look like you're still a teenager. I appreciate that.

Which is how I, you know, I still sort of, I mean, I know you get this a lot and you still I was on TV. I know, but you look amazing. So that. And we recently had Candice Cameron Abrey on and people just love this era. People love full house. So it's actually, it's really fun to have you on here. And I don't want to say that I've been wanting to speak to you even before I wanted to speak to her.

But, you know, I've followed so much of your life and your journey and was just very excited to get to talk to you. Thank you. Also, as I mentioned to Candace, my first audition ever was to play DJ in Full House. Really? Yes. And I know you're like doing the math. That's amazing. So I'm 47.

I started acting when I was 11. And that was the first audition I went on. Oh, wow. You had been acting long before 11, but I had just started acting at 11. What are some of the common notes that casting directors will give feedback to an agent about? It's usually either one of two things. Either they're overly theatrical and they need to tone it down and they're like playing it like to the back of the theater. Or they go in and just don't really, they're just kind of really shy and quiet.

So I already am more different than you thought. Okay, okay. Well, I just feel like that's oftentimes. Like kids are like, I love this. And then you send them into an audition and they're like, no, no, no. I, just rushing, just speaking way too fast. Oh, God. Oh, story of my life.

I get it today. Yes. Still, that's, yeah, no. So that was the note. Also. I don't, I'm gonna, I'm even going to venture to say something. I know for me, my brain works 5,000 miles an hour. And I have a feeling yours might as well.

Yes. And I feel like sometimes. that's why we talk really fast because I'm like, if I don't talk fast and get all of this out quickly, I'm going to distract myself. Well, it's part of, I'm going to lose interest. It's part of my delicate psychiatric profile, which I think is very charming.

Girl, it is part of my charm now. At nearly 41, it's, I've incorporated it to be charming. But it's nice to be invited to someone else's breakdown, by the way. And not my own. Always. Welcome to our breakdown. Yes, exactly. where you get to share things that are not currently breaking down for you,

while we just share our current breakdowns. No, but the other thing I was going to say is that, you know, a funny thing happened. On the way before? Pretty much. A funny thing happened, you know, when I started acting in 1986. I looked pretty much then like I do now, meaning like I had prominent features. You know, I had like a whatever. This is my face.

And, you know, I remember when I told my parents I want to. I love your face. Thank you. It's an awesome. I'm growing to love it. See, I love unique faces. I like faces with like unique. Yeah, no, but I mean like faces that...

Character. I've got character. Yes, yes. Well, in 1986, though, you can imagine that when I said to my parents, I want to be an actress. Like, they looked at the television and looked at me and looked, and they must have been like, what does she think she's going to do? Because this, like, ethnic features were not popular in the 80s, and I had blonde hair and blue eyes.

I could have been your sister, but from another mister. No, no, I don't think so. I think actually from the mister that we were supposed to have all been from, like I'm just saying. I look more like the late beloved Bob Sagitt than any of you. And I don't mean this, but he was from my tribe. Like, right. In any event, you know, obviously that show and the cast that was put together, you know,

became such an iconic part, you know, of so many lives. the lives of the actual humans like you who were who were living it and you know and also just with the resurgence you know and with fuller house which actually i think films right next to call me cat um i also work at warner brothers um so it's just been what a fascinating you know kind of book ending of your life i mean you were a little one i was i was i was uh four years old when i started working in the business i started doing commercials and things like that And it was like four, a little over four and a half when I did my first television appearance on Valerie, which was the Valerie Harper show. And then I got cast from doing that on to full house at like barely five.

What do you remember of being that, like, do you, because I barely remember things like I was in, I did square dancing in kindergarten when I was four. So like I remember some things, but like, how much do you remember? kind of of of that period of your life? I think oftentimes what we remember, we have flashes of what we remember, and we also have lots of flashes of what our photographs tell us. And luckily, that was a pretty well-documented period of my life.

So I have like these really great reference points to be like, oh, yeah, yeah, I remember that. Or like these pictures either that, you know, were behind the scenes that my mom took or whatever behind the scenes, you know, video. And John Stamos took tons. tons and tons of video. So we've got all this video of growing up. Like, I actually am fortunate because I not only remember it fairly well, but I have all of these reference points to, like,

trigger those memories. So it was, I mean, I don't remember much of my life before being on for house. Right, which most of us, you know, likely don't. I mean, it's like the beginnings of, I mean, prior to five years. I mean, most of us are like, I don't know. So I imagine that, you know, you spent those kind of formative elementary school years and really into your junior high year, Yeah, all through middle school. It wasn't until I started high school that I was going to school full time. Wow. So what, gosh, what was education like for you?

Because, like, again, I started working regularly, you know, when I was 14, which is, like, a very different phase of life. Right. You have different tutors for subjects, and it's like, you're in algebra two. And, like, there's a lot to, like, hold on to. Right. But, you know, you had to kind of, like, learn all the basic stuff that happens in elementary school, like, in a very different environment.

Yes and no. You know, it's, I was really fortunate. So the first season of Full House, I was five years old. I had just started kindergarten. Now, I was in kindergarten for about three days and got moved out and tested out of kindergarten. You're like, peace out. Peace out. See you later.

They were going to move me into second, but moving in first grade. So they moved me into first grade, and I... So you were precocious. I mean, that's... Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and I don't say that. It's like that sounds like I'm bragging. No, no, but something...

I skip kindergarten, the finger painting. You know what I mean, the big stuff. No, but something about you. because like whatever my brother skipped second grade but there was something about you at that age where they were like not I was reading by the time before I was four I could pick up most any book

and read it I was out of I was yes precocious is a good way to put it so I started first grade and I was doing full house and that first season I think like the first season and a half it was

the usual sitcom work schedule was five days a week work three weeks off one week. So the weeks I was off, I would go to regular school and then I would be tutored on set because we were kind of still, you know, figuring it out. By the time I want to say the second or third season rolled around, maybe even, yeah, about third season, I was able to go to school in the morning and then my mom would pick me up because I lived in Orange County. Back in the days when you could make it from Orange County to L.A. and under an hour, you know, so very long ago. And my mom would pick me up from school at lunch.

I'd work on my script in the car. I'd come to work and I'd rehearse on stuff in the afternoon. And then Thursdays and Fridays were like a block and shoot and audience tape days. And then those days I would be exclusively on set because we had to go later. So I would have to start a little bit. And that was just normal for you. Like it was just like I go to school and this is my after school thing I do. I would do that.

I got used to like traveling on weekends and doing homework in the car or, you know, on set or like, banking three hours, you know, so the next day you wouldn't have to do as much school or whatever. But I think, honestly, for the way my brain works, having gotten diagnosed with ADHD later in life, I have found that looking at all of those ways that I grew up, I think were actually it was like the perfect environment for someone like me because I was constantly stimulated and doing something different and learning something new and balancing three or four different things and going in different directions. So yeah, I think if anything, that was, it was like the best place for my brain to flirt. My NBialx breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of

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And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention My Ambiotics Breakdown to help support the show. What made you initially be like maybe I should explore this as a potential diagnosis or label? My girls were struggling with it, and I was reading more and more about girls and how ADHD affects them. It looks different than in boys. Very different. Tell us a little bit about what you learned. It looks like talking a lot.

It looks like not being able to shut up in class, and let me tell you that was the number one thing I got in trouble for. Like name on the board every day. teachers hated me, but they loved me, but they were like, she can't. I don't physically think she can stop talking. Wow. And I was like, I can't. I can't right now. It's good for podcast hosts.

Yeah, terrible. You know what? It's true. You're going to be in town tomorrow and I'm going to give you the what for about that comment. What? It's a positive. So I just had a friend of mine, 65 years old, just really. recently talk and realized that she had ADHD.

And now she's looking back at her entire life wondering like, oh my gosh, so many things make sense. Don't talk about me when I'm right in the room, Jonathan. You don't look a day over 60. And then also the flip side was she was asking like, okay, now that I have that, like, how do I know what my superpowers are? Because it does come with extra abilities in certain areas. The one thing that drove me a little bit crazy about, realizing that Maim has as much or more ADHD that I do is that she used to get annoyed with

me for like, you're not focused, you're doing too many things. But really, it was that she needs me to just be like this totally still because it distracts her. Right. That's the problem. Put two ADHD people in a room together and watch 17 things not get done simultaneously. But no, I, you know. Or if you can channel it. Well, that's the thing is. My area, what I realized is, you know, people on set would, I mean, you would not know it. Even now, like I've moved into directing and I've done, I can keep 9,000 plates spinning in my head. That's a superpower. I know what hand I picked up what with.

Like, I know where something was. Like every single detail I can remember as an actor and or director. I get home, I can't find my keys. And what I realized is, is most people with 80s, she have an area of hyper-focused. mine is what I love to do, which is perform and be on set. And so the reason I never feel more at home than when I do on set is one because I literally grew up there from the age of four. And two, because it's the area where my brain is like, yes, I'm in the place where I thrive. So I think, you know, it's interesting to go along and learn these things about yourself and kind of go back and piece things together.

and you get to give yourself a little break and go, oh, I didn't know that then. So I felt like something was wrong with me because I didn't have it figured out until now. Ma'am, I've heard you describe something similar, the way you break down a script, the way you know where everyone is supposed to be in a scene, the way that like everything tracks and you're tracking every part and it's all making sense to you. Like that level of diligence and focus definitely comes out. And I've seen you, you know, talk about directing and be in the same zone where you're just like, it just all is like clear to you?

Well, I mean, I think, look, I can't speak for you or for you. You know, for me, there's a, there's also a real safety in that level of vigilance about details because it means that the focus is anywhere but on me. Do I have to pee? Do I have to eat? It doesn't matter. Right. I'm just like, I'm dialed into, you know, everything else.

So it really is. It's, I mean, in some ways, I think it's a, like, you know, it's compensating for something. It's like, it's a defense. It is, right, look, you pull the thread of this sweater and it's complicated. The whole thing's going to unravel. Yeah. But it is. It's part of so much of what makes us really good at what we do.

Yeah. And then in other areas, be like, oh, my God, did I, I don't, did I take my meds this morning? No, I am. For most of my adult life, I've had a bell on my keys and on my wallet because I lose them all the time. So at least I know to like jingle jangle every jacket because it's almost always like somewhere like that. One of the biggest misunderstandings that we had was when you were writing your script

and rewriting your script, you were in like the later phases of the redrafts. And when she, like, we would talk about a note and then she would be like, got it, okay, I'm going to sit and rewrite this scene. And then we weren't in the same room. We were hanging out over Zoom. And then I would go and start scrolling. and that scrolling would be distracting her, so she wanted me to just sit and watch her rewrite the scene.

Very quick writer. But like that was agony for me. Like I'm like, I'm just supposed to. I'd be dead. I'd be dead. Yeah, that would be a lot. Also, I love how we have sidetracked this conversation and a full ADHD blow.

This is just an ADHD episode. When I think about also your like full house life and then your fuller house life, and I didn't mean to say like, it's bookended because you have a long life and career ahead of you, but I know you've been asked so many things about so many aspects of full house and fuller house. So I'm trying to find different ways to like talk about things that maybe you haven't, you know, maybe explored the same way. And one of the things I was thinking about is what are sort of your reflections

that like kind of, you know, this very early moment of your career was essentially rebooted, you know, so many decades later. Like what is that? Obviously it speaks to the popularity of the show and the interest. But kind of personally, I would imagine it must be so interesting to like you're playing, you know, you get to have a character grow up. Right. So what is that like as an actor like to get to, you know, have a character grow up?

And you don't see all those years in between, but you're what happened after this whole time has been off. Right. I mean, you know, I was always really excited to get to come and bring Stephanie sort of back to life. Stephanie was such a fun character to play as a kid. And, you know, it's, it's so weird because I don't know, oftentimes I feel like I don't know sort of where Steph ends and I began. Like, we have this very blurred self. I mean, I'm very clear that I am not Stephanie. But I, but I get what you mean. But you know what I mean? Like I, it's your voice. It's your face. as a kid they really used so much of who I was to inform who Stephanie was

and who Stephanie was this kind of amplified version of who I was so it, I liked her, I liked being her. And that made me, I think, like me, because it was, you know, these things and this person that I sort of was anyway. So getting to come back and play that person decades later and have Steph have, you know, like I gave Steph some backstory, You know, yes, it was a sitcom and it's whatever. But I was like, what happened to stuff in between?

Like, you know, why was Steph kind of away from her family for a while? Like, you know, Steph kind of went and did her own thing. And like, this is hard for her to come back to. And, you know, this adjustment and all of this kind of stuff. What's the craziest part of her backstory that you gave her in your head? Like, did she join the circus for a minute? I mean, Steph basically, it's in a way. She was, you know, DJing in Europe.

Like she basically, I feel like Steph got it. moved to Europe probably for a dude or a relationship and the guy, like some, some idiot guy and like, did he give her ecstasy at a party and he told her water would taste good? Maybe or something like that or like he, or he was just kind of a douchebag like music producer, you know what I mean? And then and then she wound up staying there in Europe and being like, you know what? Screw this guy. Like, I'm going to do my thing. And she did that and that's why she had been gone from family so long, but also like it was kind of a shitty relationship. So she was, she was really like, I didn't want to be with anybody. She just wanted to do her own thing. And like, you know, her sister,

obviously with her happy family was like, I just, it really hurt. Right. You know, there was a lot going, there was a lot of layers. And probably none of that ever showed up. I love it though. And if it did, it was probably in the episode where I argued with a clown because God knows that was some hard hitting emotional topic. I love that. I love that notion also that, you know, you each had to have, you know, kind of a journey. And I think, you know, another kind of interesting challenge and, you know, you were so young. So, like, whereas, like, the DJ character, you know, she was, like, older and, like, doing, like, already, like, tweeny things, like, teeny things. Like, it's different. And, you know, my mom is the middle of three girls. Okay. So whenever I see, like, a show with, like,

you know, three girls or whenever I, like, meet people who are, like, one of three girls, like, I'm always like, tell me all the things. My mother was the middle child. And so there's, like, a huge dynamic also to your character that was like so the middle child meaning like in in the most i think helpful and appropriate ways for a tv show to inform like about birth order and especially like with the dads and like all good right but then i also think about your identities also in real life in that you were different people like you had i mean i don't mean to group um mary kate and ashley because they were playing one person you know they were very little but let's say we had these like three personas.

Right. And like, you know, Candice was like, she was Candice. Right. And like, they were like, no, the ones. And then here you are. And you're really like, also in terms of like the public eye, like you are. You're like that middle child because it's like. Look.

So tell me what it was like to sort of like play the middle child, but also feeling even in your like celebrity presence, you were the middle child. I have a great middle child story from full house that is literally, it is, it was unintentional, but is completely. the epitome of middle child moment. So there's an episode in full house where Jesse and Becky are moving out of the house. Okay.

And, you know, when Jesse moved into the house, he moved into Stephanie's old bedroom. Correct. With the pink bunnies. Now, the pink bunnies were supposedly hand cut by Pamela, Stephanie's mom, Jesse's sister, and placed on Stephanie's room when she was a baby, that was her room.

So those pink bunnies were Stephanie. room, okay? The episode where Jesse moves out. Yes. I believe Michelle gives Jesse the pink bunny or vice versa. No, Michelle gives Jesse the pink bunny or vice versa. Something happened. And I was like,

Wow. But those are not, it's not like in real light, like now looking back on it. I'm like, but that was like, it's just so funny. I was like, oh, what a tree. Now I do, I actually know what it's like to be a middle child. Well, but it was cuter if Michelle did it. Right. You know?

And the episode where Steph moves into the bathroom, I died hysterically laughing because my younger daughter did that several years ago and like just went and camped out in the bathroom, like brought pillows, blankets, like just went and was like, I like it in here. And I'm moving in. And her sister was like, get out of the bathroom. So, yeah, that was interesting. But yeah, it was. It was, you know, there were definitely those times.

As an only child, I really was like, oh, so this is the in-between experience, you know. And it was fun to have that faux family, but not going to lie, it was nice to be able to go home as an only child and be like, I just have to me to worry about. Right. It's interesting because, you know, we just, we lost Leslie Jordan recently, you know, from our show. and it's, you know, very, very interesting to try and... He was in the first commercial I was in. Wow. What was it for? It was a... Oh my gosh.

Was it the Sizzler or the Oscar Meyer commercial? I mean, these are two excellent choices. Excellent choices. And I'm trying to remember whichever... But I... Anyway, it was one of those, and he played... I actually wasn't in it in my scene with him. Okay.

But forever... like almost my entire career every time I would see Leslie Jordan not the first thought was like oh my God there's this man who's had this amazing career who is a genius and I love but was like oh that was for my commercial like you know as like a little kid

that sense of like you know it's all about me sort of no I get it but yeah I loved him oh no he was he was a really very special man thank you but you know the thing that's like hard to kind of articulate without sounding like a crazy Hollywood person

and I think you'll totally get it is like, I wish there was a different word for the kind of family that's created on a set because it's not a family in the sense of like, it's not your family, meaning you don't share family trauma, you don't share, you know, holidays or you don't share like people in common that like, oh, whatever, you know, you don't share a rhythm of a calendar where it's like,

when are we going on big? When am I going to see my cousins? It's not that kind of family, but it is, it feels as, you know, as connected and not in like a Hollywood way of like, oh my God, we all love each other. But like we spent,

you spent more time with the people at work than you did with your home family. Yeah. And, you know, honestly, I look at it like, we did, we would plan vacations together. We would go, our teachers would plan like field trips for us

because we'd always miss out on the field. So like, you know, my school field trips were with them. And we would go and we'd go on location and we'd go travel together. Or, you know, I grew up and I spent a lot of time with Bob. daughters. I would go spend a weekend at his house and we'd all go to Johns and his sisters

were always there and his mom and dad. We all knew each other's families. Our families would get together for, you know, weddings, funerals, celebrations, holidays, rap parties. So we did know each other's families. We did share like, I mean, it was, it was really, really deep. Yeah. And I, and also, like, that's an extension of the fact that you start with this working relationship that's very intense and you're with each other. And I know, you know, when I was acting and, you know, there are hours that you're allowed to work when you're little. But still, you're spending like most of your waking hours. Like these are often the first people you see in the morning. They're the people that you, you know, have breakfast with, you have lunch with. You sometimes have dinner even, you know,

and if it's a late night. They're the people that you work with when you don't feel well. Totally. They're the people that you, right, who have to take that. And like they are the people who, you know, are around you every day as a kid. Like they are. Well, and I think also for for people like you and me who like literally spent like formative years. Yeah. Those were the people that like knew me when I, you know, was a kid and then watched me like become a teen or a tween. Like they're part of your life.

And yeah. You know, it's almost like the way that I kind of think about it is like if you have distant family that you see a couple times a year. Right. Or once a year. You know, they can be like, oh, my God, you grew so much. But with your set family, no one really notices that stuff because you're together all the time, meaning you're just all growing together. There's none of that, like, you know, people would sometimes ask, like, Ted Wass, you know,

who played my dad on Blossom. I'm like, what was it like to watch the kids grow up? And he's like, it was like watching my own kids grow up. They were there all the time. Oh, my God. Right. Or you, but the crazy part was, I remember when we would come back from hiatus. That was the ones that I was like, oh, my God.

Like, you know. And it wasn't like, hiatus. is just were really long. It was maybe two and a half months. Still, though. And, you know, kids, if you had kids on a show, man, they'd come back and they're like, you know, we'd come back to the show and the kids had like totally, you know, their voices had changed. And they're, yeah, puberty had happened. We're like, oh, my God. Now what? All the ideas for this show don't win. Jonathan, are you doing okay over there? Do you need anything?

That's very sensitive of you, Jody. I appreciate that. I want to check in on you and make sure I know that mine doesn't listen to you. So I just want to be your new favorite, really. Finally, I feel seen, I feel heard, I feel accepted. Let's talk a little bit about your kids, because I believe we all have a child born the same year. You have a child born in 2008? I have an 08 and a 10. Okay, so I have a 05 and an 8, and he has an 08.

So we all share a 14 or 15-year-old. The only time I ever hear this, like, 08 is in reference to my kids' soccer teams. And they're like, oh, they're in 0-5, like, because it goes by what you. year they're born. So we're building a soccer team. So you have two girls. I do. You have two 12 and 14. You are just in it is my guess. I am seventh and ninth grade. And you know, I have to say, those are both horrible years for me. Just want you to know. I mean, they're hard and horrible years for me and for most people too. But I will say my ninth grader is in a much better position than she was, I think, in middle school and my younger one is just kind of in the thick of it now. I feel like seventh grade

just as a rule is like really, really terrible. I remember very, very few redeeming things about my seventh grade year. Like it was the first year of middle school. It was just constant bullying and harassment and like everyone was terrible. We were terrible to each other. We were terrible to teachers. We were terrible to our parents. We were just terrible. And thank God. we made it through. Right. But I see it now and I would say I have apologized to my mom more in the last couple of years than I have ever in my entire life.

I just call my mom. I'm like, I'm so sorry. Oh, my God. I had no idea. You're right. This is, you're right. You did know. I thought you didn't know.

You knew. I know. They don't know that I know. Right. It's fun, isn't it? And you live in L.A. I mean, the L.A. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So you're raising them in L.A., which also is its own, and people are like, well, if you don't like it, get out. And it's like, I thought that I don't like it. It's just like it's very different from raising children, I think, many other places. Absolutely. Look, city kids are, city kids are different than suburbia kids. And I say that having sort of had a foot in both. Yeah. I grew up in Orange County in like suburbia land, like very, very normal outside of L.A. childhood. Blue collar working.

parent, you know, like that was my upbringing, but then also had this foot and like this really sort of weird fun over the top, like, you know, LA experience. So I do know that it is different. And I do know that my growing up in Orange County was a different experience than growing up than my kids here in L.A. But by that same token, I know that so much of my experience growing up here in L.A. and growing up in this business and being exposed to so many different people really helped shape me into the person that I am today. And so in that regard, I do feel like my kids still have that experience of just the world is very big around them. And sometimes that's a terrible thing. And sometimes that's a great thing. And unfortunately these days, I don't know that any of us

are safe from some of the scary stuff that happens, whether you're in a city or a suburb. So, you know, there's some of that that you just kind of go, I guess, you know, some of it has to, it's just kind of the world that they live in now. But I love that my girls have had this experience. And, you know, they, they have grown up in ways and around people and experiences, I think, that are going to really serve to make them interesting people. Yeah, for sure. The other thing I wanted to, you know, mention something, Jonathan and I talk about a lot, you know, there's, being a parent is like, its own like what? It's its own journey.

And mostly I really feel like I wish someone had told me like, hey, guess what? Everything you didn't work out from your childhood. Right, right, right. When you have kids, you're going to have to go through it like to the endth degree with like a time limit and with someone shouting at you and throwing food at you. Like everything comes up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's going to be you get to learn how you wish you would have been parented.

Right. You get to learn how helpless your point. parents were, you know, and how overwhelmed they were. Right. Well, and I, you know, I can't help but, like, think about the timeline. Your kids are about the age you were when Full House kind of was ending. Am I doing the math, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And also, you know, a lot of the challenges that you've been incredibly brave in talking about and incredibly helpful, I think, to so many people in being open about, a lot of those things, you know, for you did start to kind of, like, bubble and simmer when you were their age. And I wonder, do you feel like you have special, like, protective insight, you know, about those years for them? You know, or do you have fears about it? Because, like, for me, and I think for Jonathan as well, it's like a combination of, like, when we get to, like, big milestones or things that were hard. It's like, part of me is like, oh, but I don't have to live it again. But then it's like, oh, but I kind of do. Right. I mean, that's the

terrifying part is apparent. I think that the realization that your heart now lives outside of your body and actually conduct its business completely separate from you and really doesn't ask you if it's okay, but is fully capable of breaking you without any of your input. And that's what parenting is in a lot of ways. It is trusting your heart to be outside of your body and just hoping that nothing goes wrong. You know, I'd like to think that because of what I've been through, I have the ability to see it coming quicker. my kids are going to realize and know better. I'm going to be more aware because I worked in treatment for years.

You know, and I have spent enough time in my own sobriety, in my own therapy, and in life to know that unfortunately none of those things guarantee anything. and that if people who got sober could see it coming any sooner in their kids, there would be never any, you know, generational families, you know, celebrating birthdays together at a 12-step meeting. I always say that. I'm like, if we had figured out, forget about sobriety. Like, if we had figured out parenting, we wouldn't have to fight about it.

Like, the fact that any. There wouldn't be 9,000 books. Right. Like the fact that anyone, including myself, you know, the fact that anyone might feel at any point certain that they know what to do with anyone else's child. The only time you know what to do with someone else's child is when you don't have children. Then you know everything. I know, God, I knew so much. I knew so much. And you know, I got my degree in elementary education. I was going to be a teacher. And so I worked in classrooms and stuff when I had graduated college. And let me tell you,

man, other people's kids, they love you. They listen to you. I mean, not all of them, but a majority of them. It's because kids don't want to listen to their parents. Right. Get those same kids. home with their own parents. And my kids, and I'm like, what? Oh, I used to take my kids to my friend Nancy's house so he would eat a vegetable. Right, yeah. If Nancy put it in a soup, it was like set from God. I try and put it in the same soup.

I don't like it. This is shit. Right, right, right. Dog food, mama. Right, I don't like it. Right. It's always someone else. But the one thing I have, for better or worse, always said that I want to be with my kids is

honest and open. And so, you know, while there are not, there are lots of details about my story and who I am that my kids don't know, there are a lot that they do know. And, you know, my daughter actually told me the other day that she's like so grateful that she and I have such an open relationship and that she tells me everything, which probably means she doesn't tell me everything. But that means she might tell me a good portion. And I tell her, I know you're not going to tell me everything. And I make sure that there are people in her life that she trusts, that I trust. that she can go to, you know, whether they're my parents or my best girlfriends or my husband or whatever so that she knows, like, look, sometimes mom doesn't have all the answers. And I will tell

my kids that, like, look, I don't know. I'm doing my best. I realize that may not make you feel like super great, but I'm just trying to figure it out too. Yeah. Well, I think that's so helpful. It's one of the things, you know, that I think is a foundation of a really healthy dialogue, you know, for kids to know, like, I'm not, I'm not perfect, you know. And many of them, us were raised with this notion of like father knows best or mother knows best and like and in many cases that that does make you feel secure because like oh they know right but then like my but then you feel betrayed because you're like they didn't know no this is a good one so i grew up well my parents my parents are from the bronx okay in new york it's a place oh i know they're the brons yeah yeah yeah

it's where the yankees are from yes so i grew up with this it wasn't even a belief it was a truth that stores were closed on Sundays. Okay? Just all sorts. Right, right, right. Everything's closed Sundays. Everything's closed on Sundays. So my whole life was kind of geared around like we did things during the week or like

on Saturday. I didn't grow up observing the Sabbath. We grew up, I grew up kosher. It's a long story. Anyway, everything's closed on Sundays. And I start like going out into the world doing things being a human. And it turns out things are not closed on Sundays. They're not.

They're not. But in the 1940s and 50s, in New York, things were closed on Sundays. It was called Blue Laws. And there's still a district of New Jersey where actually I filmed my movie where things are closed on Sundays.

However, that's only true in this like one region of New Jersey. That's not where my parents were from. They had never been to that part of New Jersey. But this technically wasn't a lie. It was at a point some truth. Right. But that to me like that's even what's funnier

is that like there was no need for anyone to ever look into anything because things are closed on Sundays. So here I am like spending my whole life, on Sundays I'm bored. On Sundays I watch a lot of Twilight Zone. And it's not that they were keeping it from me. There's no maliciousness in this. Right, right.

But it was just like that was my life is that things are closed on Sundays. I wish someone could tell me now that things were closed on Sundays and I believe it. And I just tell your kids that we're staying home. I don't leave my house much on these days anyway. Who am I kidding? But that's a great example of like we could. I mean, sure there was no Google, but I'm sure we could have asked someone. Is this a rule in California?

3,000 miles from where my parents were raised? What it is, what happens is that it becomes, and then you go, no, my parents said, and then you get into an argument at school. And then you end up in therapy at 16. Look, who, you waited until you were 16? Oh, how lucky. No, I, look, I, first of all, I think everyone needs therapy.

It's, it is, I, you're right. I love my therapist. Oh, thank God for therapy. I love my therapist. What do you love about therapy? You know what my therapist said to me recently? She said, and it sort of ties into being a parent yourself, is she said that parenting is learning how to reparent yourself.

And it's learning how to be the parent that you needed to show up for you in good ways and bad, like in all of the ways that, you know, maybe didn't happen. and that there's nothing wrong with your parents, and it's okay that they did things wrong. Or different. Or different. Right, right, right. That it doesn't make you a bad person for then talking about it

and being like, that kind of fucked me up. You know what I mean? Like, because I think that there's so much, we have this weird parental thing tied into like, oh, I don't want to like think that I thought they did a bad job. they didn't do about you know and but yet at the same time like I know right I'm and I'm very open I go look you guys I say this is my kids I go you are going to need therapy I know it not because I'm a terrible parent but because I am a parent human yeah and that's why do you think that our

experience because I have a very like that's a very similar script to what's in my head and I wonder if if there's something about also growing up in the industry where kind of like everyone was my parent, meaning I was sort of in a situation where I was really constantly sort of like monitored and protected and just like more monitored and hopefully protected. I had a very, thank God, I had a very positive experience. As did I? Yeah. I think I, like, did you hate it? I was like, no, I loved it. Yeah. And I know not everyone had that. But I know, I know your set. Yeah, I think your set was known to be a very clean set and ours was as well, meaning I, some people grew up watching, like people were doing like drugs and drinking at work and like, no, no, no, no.

of that. But even so, like, it was kind of always like someone was watching, you know? Right. There was a studio teacher. Yeah. Or just like a PA or an AD. Like, someone was always like, if I had to pee, it was like, okay, well, we're going to like wait outside your door, make sure, like you come right back out. And I'm wondering, though, if that also, like, it's like we had this like Uber parental, like, everybody was our parent. So there's this notion that, like, if I speak badly, everyone's going to hear. Like, it feels like the audience is bigger in my head, maybe. Well, I think also that was something that was. That was. was at least in my house and not in a bad way.

But as a reality of growing up in this business, what my mom always reminded me of, and I can't imagine it these days, but what my mom would always remind me is people are watching you. Yeah. Oh, that's creepy. It's true. And I knew from a young age that I didn't have the luxury to go out

and do stupid things. Or, well, I did. And I did. I had the luxury and I did them. But I, but I didn't have the ease that other kids did. But I didn't have the ease. But I think, you know,

I grew up with that being the voice in my head of, you just, you know, just be agreeable. And I heard someone say it to recently that growing up in this business, you're often taught that being agreeable is the most important part of being set. Yeah. And I think most people have the opposite.

expectation of this business that you're taught to be difficult as a child actor. As a child actor, you, you know, part of what your job is and what makes you a good child actor is that you're like, I will stand here. Get it right. Just get it right. Just do what's asked the first time and that's it. None of that like, you know, it sounds sort of whatever, but like that wasn't necessarily a bad thing growing up. Like it was just sort of my experience and it was like being in class. Go pee before you go to school. Right. But I always knew that my life wasn't private. And, you know, the first time I was in a tabloid was, I think, nine or ten years old. And it was completely fabricated.

It was saying that I was a problem on set and that Bob was trying to get me fired. And this was at a time when, like I said, I was very close with Bob's family and his daughters and was spending time with, like, his family on weekends. And so I remember. Like really untrue. Yeah. And I remember it was Star Magazine. and I remember it like nine or ten years old

having to come to terms with and understand the reality of sometimes you don't get to be heard. And that you know and that you

just have to continue on regardless of what the external is that you have to just kind of keep going through that. And I don't think a lot of nine or ten year olds have to learn that lesson. Sure. But I look at also is like that idea has served me well in a lot of ways too but it definitely I've had to dissect it as I get older it's made me able to do my job without getting sucked into my feelings but then when

it comes time to like to like oh what are my feelings it's like I don't know those are those are so locked away right now it's interesting and I'm I'm sure you get this a lot more than you should meaning I don't think anyone should ask really anyone this, but I'm sure we both have gotten asked this many, many times. I was asked just today. I had a speaking engagement and, you know, someone was like, why does so many child actors turn to drugs and alcohol? And like I really don't, I don't love that question

because what I like to point out to people is, why do so many humans turn to drugs and alcohol? And I say like, you know, I went to public school in Los Angeles. I was part of the busing program. Like, plenty of kids were trying to fill that God-shaped hole with whatever they could. And for some people, it's food and for some people. But I do want to say, and like, it's not my business to speak for anyone. And also, you know, I've known many actors who did not make it.

You know, I've worked with many actors and socialized with many people who are no longer with us. So I always felt like when people ask me that, it's like it's not for, for me to speak to their memory or to their families who are grieving for the rest of their lives, you know, for me to say like, well, my parents did this and that's why. Or like, or like, or even to be like, you know, and for me, my story happens to be like I'm a second generation American. My parents were very, very strict. But I have no idea really the intricacies of anyone's human experience. So I would always say, I would always say, like, it's much more complicated than that. It's more of a mental health issue and like a crisis of a denial that

mental health exists. But when you talk about what you just mentioned, that for me doesn't relate to drugs and alcohol. It relates to just our human experience when we've been through the kind of thing. And this is not specific to actors. This isn't like, ooh, Maya and Jody talking, you know, about acting. This is just like we're all under different kinds of pressure. There's pressure in the family. There's pressure outside. If you play sports. Correct. If you're, you know, whatever. Our dancer, I mean, yeah. Right, so our experience is absolutely more magnified, more observed. But that pressure of, it really is most convenient if you have the fewest needs possible.

That happens to a lot of kids. It's just in the industry, it's our go-to. Right. It's our go-to. Like, there's literally, we don't get sick days. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You're like, are you dying? like maybe well right come in and we'll see if we can get a doctor to come in right yeah exactly

and I remember like I am but to this day yeah taking a sick day is very like I have to be yep crawling near dead crawling and only with the pandemic did I finally go you know what take a sick day because A it's not worth it and be like no one wants your sick ass around go stay home you know what I mean but it was that that felt like it was that was just you know what we're just you're just a part of like you just you don't you don't get to take a sick day well and also it reminds me of when we talk to people who grew up you know people who grew up in alcoholism or with active addiction in their homes there's often not room to have needs because it's like it's always about who who else and that's really what it's like to be a kid on a set even if you're the star of the show that's what

it's like like what do you need what is he need okay there's not room for me it's also did i just compare being on a sitcom to growing up in alcoholism you did you did you did and but i just meant like having having to take into account everybody else's needs because they're important. That's called codependence. Yeah. No. The title of this episode. I have not. Yeah. Here's the thing, sort of tying all of it together. I too say the same thing about addiction and growing up in this business. I grew up, again, went to a public school, had lived in a great neighborhood with, you know, great schools and great education and parents all had jobs and all, you know, families living together and quote unquote, you

know, happy families, whatever you want to call it. And there were kids in my neighborhood that OD'd and died in their homes and that, you know, that went to jail and that went and had their own struggles with addiction and that wound up on the streets. But the other, you know, five or six kids in my neighbor, you don't hear about them. But you hear about me because people grew up watching me. Yeah. So much like what you said, I don't know that it's necessarily, it's hard to gauge, right? It's hard to say, does this affect child actors or people who have grown up in this business more?

Or do we just know about it? Because every time it happens to one of those people, we hear. So it seems like it's more often. And then, you know, also, is it the personality type that's drawn to doing this? Great question. Is it the, you know, the personality type of a kid that makes it, that does well in this business? is a kid that probably has a little touch of ADHD and maybe a little like neurodivergent. But maybe, maybe either a little narcissism or ex or the opposite and extreme people pleasing.

Right. And codependency and all of these things that as a kid makes for a good actor. You don't necessarily, they're not, as a kid, they're not yet maladaptive practices. They're just who you are. And then you grow up and you go, oh, I let those things. I never learned how to unlearn some of those things but I don't think

that it's because I was on TV I think that was who I was anyway but that you know what I mean? It's like this you can't pull them apart I don't think I think the person that I was made me interested in entertainment I think entertainment at a young age

shaped who I became I think who I became was you know the path I was on anyway but also you know largely shaped by a lot of weird things that happened growing up. So, you know, it's, it is, we're complicated personalities and child actors are, you know, we're a little different. Well said, really.

I honestly, I'll be honest, I've been talking about these things. I mean, I'm 47, so, you know, I've been acting, you know, I started Blossom when I was 14. You know, I don't know if I've had this level of analysis and camaraderie around this. I'm always very nervous to say like, I'm always very nervous to like blame the industry on problems that we might have, but also like very, you know, very reluctant to also be like, I made it out

because also like you don't, like people don't know. The reason, honestly the reason that this, we started talking about this, because I was talking about therapy. And only in the last maybe year or so have I really started going like, oh wait, I get to pick this stuff apart. and realize that life is that gray area, right?

Nobody has a perfect childhood. Nobody has a perfect experience. And there are also great things that happen in terrible circumstances, right? And all of those shades of gray are true. And until I'm willing to look at the pluses and minuses and the gray areas of all of the things of my life, I don't think I can really adequately. get down to the bottom of the shit that I need to until I can go, oh, that was kind of good,

but that kind of was weird, but that was awesome. You know, like, that's life. It's all very complicated. And, you know, I think remembering that and pulling those things apart without feeling that guilt and the shame and feeling like I had a wonderful experience. I still struggled with addiction.

I don't think it was entirely the business's fault, but there was a layer of it. Do you share your sobriety date or your current sobriety? Or even roughly speaking, like, are you a toddler? No, I'm not. I'm double digits. Okay. I'm double digits.

And I, um... Are you a teen? Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. Okay, so you're a kid. You're still, you're like, you're in elementary school and trying to get to junior high. Right.

And, you know, and I will say, like, recovery looks a lot different these days than it did in the beginning. And I think for me, my experience and my practice of sobriety of 12-step principles and programs and what that looks like for me, like it's changed a little bit over the years, but it is still the through line that like I try and, you know, practice these principles and all my affairs because I learned to just be a much better human. Yeah. And I find myself to be a better human today because I,

still look at what is my part in things how do I you know can I keep my side of the street clean if I you know fuck something up can I go back that's a 10 step that's a 10 step that we can do every night you know you know when we talk about like our personalities when we're little and especially you know thinking of you starting so young and um you know as someone who started late I mean I was considered late and people think that's ridiculous until I like talk to people like you like literally it's what you know like for me I had like a normal right I mean it wasn't so normal but yeah I had like I had my version of normal. Normal.

Right. A normal messed up child. You know, I do. I want to ask a little bit when you talk about, you know, your mom and dad. So I didn't know this about you. So you were adopted. Yes. As a little tiny one.

As a little tiny one. A little over year old. Okay. And you were raised by, is it your uncle? No. Well, okay. So it's my, it's complicated. Yeah.

It sometimes requires a diagram, but I'll do my best to. So, and I talk about it in the book. My adoptive parents, my mom and dad, Sam and Janice. Okay. Sam's ex-wife. Okay. His ex-wife is my biological dad's aunt. Oh, okay.

So my adopted dad's ex-wife is my biological great-aunt. Got it. And my dad has three kids with her. Okay. So technically they are my cousins, by blood. my half siblings by adoption. So basically you were... But they were all like adults, but my dad's been told me.

So you were essentially adopted into extended family is kind of how it is. Yeah, exactly. And it was, yeah, it was, you know, there were connections there and it was, you know, I, and I was fortunate that I did not have to, that I, and I had family that, you know, had brought me home from the hospital when I was an infant, not my adopted parents, but, you know, other family and friends that had taken me home. You know, I was lucky that I didn't wind up in the system and that I did have people that stepped in.

Were you born in the system? I was. I was born in LA County Jail. LA County. Well, I mean, technically I was born at USC County Medical Center. Okay. But as part of that, that's fascinating. I mean, I'm just being honest.

I don't know that I've ever spoken to someone, you know, who was really part of the system like that. Yeah. And then my, yeah, my biological dad was actually in Soledad's prison when I was young, which was a reason that other family had to take me home as well, and that it was family on his side. But he was in prison and was actually stabbed and killed in a prison riot when I was about nine months old. So, you know, it's... Did you know your bio mom? No, I did not. It wasn't ever anything that was kept for me, but it was something. And I think,

honestly, as... Again, the healing that happened as I got older and... became a mom and suddenly had this different understanding of what being a parent is and what being a mom is and a human being and experiencing all of those things. The amount of forgiveness that I had for my biological mom was huge and really like life-changing. You know what we know about the prison system which many of us have talked about for many, many years or as I've been recently pointing out the hippies we're talking about in the 60s and everyone was like, you're crazy, you're on drugs. Well, guess what?

Prison reforms have been around. Exactly. If you look at Victorian time, you know, you remember all that, you're like, it's so weird. It's like the same thing's happening. Correct. But what we know about a huge percentage of people, you know, who struggle with mental health challenges or who are often products of abuse, you know, who end up in a system that then places an extraordinary amount of psychological pressure.

And in many cases, I'm just going to say it's torture. You take traumatized individuals. You put them in further traumatizing situations, and then you wonder why they traumatize people when they get out in environments that are conducive to trauma. And then people, and then you throw more money at traumatizing them on the back end instead of preventing it from happening in the first place.

But that's where we're at. But I do, no, I mean, I'm not dismissing it. It's something that I'm really passionate about. No, and when I showed my kids the 13th, the Ava DuVernay documentary, and it was like, you know, first of all, it was shocking. I mean, I showed it in an age-appropriate fashion, but, you know, the notion, like, of educating kids and saying, like, this is not new. Like, this has been going on and it's a, you know, a continuum. But I'm just, I'm sort of interested because as we think about sort of how we end up, you know, the way we end up and like the path that we take. And obviously it sounds like your parents did a really one.

I mean, I think you're amazing. Thank you. My mom and dad, they took on something and a situation in a kid that needed it. Yeah. And my parents have been the most amazing mom and dad. I mean, they have stood by me, you know, when I've really, really, really, really pushed them to the limit. Well, and I guess that was sort of my question because, you know, obviously we're a product of so many things. but I do wonder, and I'm sure this is part of, you know, the work that you get to,

and that we all get to keep doing when we go to therapy, you know, do you think about sort of, you know, what we come from in terms of, you know, there's a lot that is nurture. There's a lot that is nature. You know, when people are like, oh, is this, and, you know, as a sciencey person, people ask me, well, is this, you know, is this, like, is this inherited? And I'm like, well, here's what's inherited. Coping mechanisms, the way people talk, the way people act. and also you do get, you know, a genetic look.

Exactly. So do you think about that? Absolutely. I'm sure when you were a teen and when you were kind of like starting to struggle, we don't always make those connections. Well, by the time I was 15, I knew that I, like I drank differently than other people. I knew I was already, I knew I had an issue with addiction. I just knew it made me feel different than other people.

And I've always been pretty self-aware. You knew that you drank differently than other people. You knew that you came from kind of like a history of that. But also, that's not necessarily. and what people don't understand, this is not really, it's not a choice making process that we undergo. It's a very, especially when your brain is still developing. Right, right, right.

So I was just kind of curious, I would imagine that at that young age, you may not have realized like, I think I'm repeating patterns. Right. Right. Well, and I look at it now, you know, and I see, I'm like, oh, you know, some attachment issues, some, you know, things that I didn't realize I had until I was like, why is it that like, you know, my relationships are failures? Why is it that this is happening?

You know, and I was as an adoptee and as someone who is now much more vocal about that experience, I think one of the things that happens with adoptees is that we discount ourselves and think, well, all that happened before I remember. Right. You know what I mean? Like that was like the first year of my life. Like what the hell was it? You know what I mean?

Like all the rest of it was fine. The body keeps score. Body Keeps the Score, such a great book. And I read that book and recommended to me by my wonderful husband who is a therapist and social worker. You know, I read that book and I was like, oh, oh, I get it. Like so, again, those. What is it? Explain it to people who may not know, you know, what happens, let's say, in any one, not yours, but like in anyone's first year. Like, what does, what happens? Well, basically, I mean, I am in no way a scientist, nor did I write this book. But according to my layman's brain and its understanding, you know, in the first year of life,

you are forming all those important connective responses. You know, it's the reason that Reese's monkeys will cuddle a furry thing that doesn't give them food and starve to death over something that feeds them, but that is wired. They are hardwired to go for something that comforts them, even if it is actually detrimental to themselves. So I think, you know, in that first year of life, are just looking to figure out how to survive really in the world. And so so many of the basic things we learn about how to survive of crying to get attention or, you know, that our needs will be met, that we are not alone, that we, you know, all of sorts of things. If there is a disruption in those, and sometimes there is for any period of time, the longer that happens,

the less of those connections are made in the brain. And so then the brain starts figuring out how to find other ways to cope and thank God the brain is something that is malleable and will change and rewire itself. But those things are still affected, right? So people like me that maybe, you know, and I talk about the story, I was left alone for a certain amount of time as an infant and I got pneumonia and all sorts of things. Those are things I don't remember, but my body does. And so, you know, for me, living a life long battle with anxiety and depression and all of those things, you know, I had to really stop and look at and reconsider the importance of those things and not use them as an excuse, but allow them to enter, right, to enter my brain as part of the information of, oh, this is what's affecting me. And again, until I look at it, I can't do anything about it. So if I'm constantly going, well, that's stupid.

There's no way that could be it. And how do I know unless I look at it? Right. You know? And so I've been looking at it and I'm like, I think there's a thing. It's more than the first year. They're showing that it's prenatal that the child is wired to the nervous system of the mother and that the state of the mother and the emotional state of the mother during the time of pregnancy

is actually the first wiring. Yeah. Well, Jonathan, I also wondered, since you were the one who recommended Peter Levine's book, to me, which is literally behind me, in an unspoken voice over a decade ago. Oh, yes, that's also a book that's sitting on my office bookshelf. Yes. Jonathan, I wonder if you could speak a little bit to kind of what Jody just alluded to, you know, like, I don't remember that, but my body does.

Can you speak kind of from a somatic perspective about either your experience with that as a, you know, as a practitioner person or just as a person who's done that kind of bodywork? You articulated it perfectly. there's a whole set of influences that most people are not aware of that are shaping how they experience the present. And most of us are like, if I don't remember it, it doesn't exist. But our pre-cognition, our pre-memory, even in utero, we are discovering that our experiences, our connection to a caregiver, our mother's voice is the mother experiencing her own trauma, while that then gets past, those hormones get passed to the baby.

And then everything, like even, you could take it even further that it's not only about the pre-memory years. There's lots of stuff that happens to us now that we don't remember. I mean, absolutely, all kinds of trauma that doesn't, that I'm, you know, will happen and go, oh, my God, you know, that's not always a fun experience when that comes back. I don't want to get too deep into this because I do want to finish like, and were you finished Jonathan, by the way? I'm so sorry.

It's okay. Keep going. Oh, see, I'm trying to get better at remembering. I am never going to hear the end of this. I'm sorry. Now I've made you look at it. A little bit now. It's okay.

I'm going to go work this out in my therapy. I'm just wondering. I need to speak to your husband. We have a couple of episodes coming up. Would you like to just sit in and moderate for us? She's our guest co-host to keep. The only reason is because I've been trying to get better at doing it myself. She is a desirable co-host on many reputable talk shows because of she's

good at this. Thank you. She's, we've never had such a conscientious, attentive, aware. I am just living my best dependent life right now. Tell me more. No, I'm just kidding. No, I was going to say, I don't feel, I don't want to get like too deep because there's a couple more things I want to talk about that are specific to you. But when we talk about the things that we choose to remember and the things we choose to forget, as a female person, I know that. I know that. I definitely have accused, and yes, this is a gendered statement. I'm just saying it. I've accused

more men than women in my life of not remembering things that I cannot believe they don't remember because they have real emotional significance to me. And I also know that there are things that, like, I don't remember that literally happened. So there's this notion also, and it may be gendered, it may not be, might have been an unnecessary broach of topic, but the notion also, of like, memory's not so simple. It's not just like, I remember it because it happened. And then the things that happened that I don't remember, don't affect me. It's so much more complicated.

Your memory is based on your perception. You see the world how you've experienced the world. So a scenario that looks to you one way is going to look a completely different way to another person, which is why witness testimonies amassed and what and all those kinds of. Yes. What are each of your earliest memories? I remember preschool. Yeah, I remember like preschool things.

a couple things. I remember, oh, I can, I mean, I can smell the grape, the juice that was served at my preschool. Like, smells, I mean, are obviously always very important, but like, oh, I can smell it even when it's not there. I have an early one, and it's not something that there's a photo of. I always check, because it was a really good point you made. Like, sometimes we remember things because people told us about them, or there's pictures or we're on television for a number of years. Right, right, right. No, I have a memory of playing with. What's that like kind of goopy?

It's not Play-Doh, but it's that goopy stuff that you play with in preschool that's made of like cornstarch and flour and water. Oh. Geck. Gack. Gack. I love that Scott was like more certain

than anything he's ever been certain of that that's Gek. Like basically. It's like you touch it and it moves but then you put it down. I remember playing with that. I don't really remember like anything else and then I'm always like,

did something terrible happen after that? Like I don't know. Right. Just remember that. And I remember it was at a preschool. It was at a church. I didn't go to a church preschool, but we rented a space on Hollywood Boulevard east of La Brea is where my mom said that that memory took place. So that's pretty early.

Yeah, I just the other day had a flash of a memory from preschool of, and again, it started with a smell of like it was a classroom. And I think I walked into one of my kids' classrooms recently for like for whatever open house. and it was like the smell of old desks and old books and whatever and I was like oh my god I know the smell wow and I instantly flashed to me at a play kitchen like in the back of this preschool room or maybe yeah whatever it was I want to know if you had to name let's call it five things what are five things you would say you do to kind of keep your center um I meditate what kind of meditation Whatever is on my phone app And I do it

Like guided meditations Guided meditations Or sometimes just music at night Theta waves whatever Hold on one second Theta waves or whatever Yeah what is that Theta waves are just really good

To help calm anxiety Is it like white noise Similar yeah It's just I don't know It's a neutral sound Exactly It's neutral sound But I also like guided meditations

I listen to Oh Jonathan just pulled them up He apparently's been listening the whole time. I listened to The Prophet by reading by Khalil Gibran as I fall asleep or The Velvetine Rabbit a lot. Oh. I know. Weird. No, lovely.

And then. Is it meditate? My favorite books as a kid. I don't know that. I don't know that. Yeah, I have a quote on my wall hanging about the Velvetine Rabbit about becoming real and that you're, you know, once your eyes have been loved off and your hair worn out. and all this. It's one of my favorite. One of my favorite quotes about how becoming real doesn't always look pretty on the outside, but it's the best on the inside. So, okay, so that's two things so far.

Meditation, reading. Books, right, books that you listen to. Therapy, it feels like is a big. Reading therapy. Okay. And what kind of therapy do you do? Like psychotherapy. Just psychotherapy. Okay, great. Yeah. Yeah. I've tried EMDR. My brain, it gets too distracted. And it was also hard because it was during COVID. So it was like trying to do it online. I just, it's hard. But therapy, reading. Do you, are you a medication person? I am a medication person.

Would you consider that one of the things you do? Oh, my God. Oh, no. Okay. So medication. Yeah, I would put that probably in the top three. That has been life changing for me. Okay.

And I'm a huge advocate for getting medication if you need it and letting go of that judgment. And then. Maybe there's only four. Whatever you want. Oh, God. And then I'm like, well, no, there's more than five. I'm like, well, no, my family and my dog. I mean, my dog's a big one.

Okay. I have a dog. I mean, my dog is like, I love my dog. And she is big and fluffy. What does she give you? Because what's the thing? She gives me absolutely. She needs nothing from me, although she is a needy creature.

She doesn't ask anything of me. I don't have to explain myself. I don't have to tell her what's going. on in my head when it's going so fast, I can't put it into words. I can just lay on top of the dog and pet her big fluffy neck. Nice. It's comfort.

Very much so. It's unconditional, unjudgmental comfort that is in a way sort of selfish because it doesn't work. It's all really self-serving. You're like, I'm heading the dog. But you have to feed the dog and walk the dog. The dog is spoiled.

I mean, I got it. Look, the dog. What's her name? Her name is Issa. Oh, pretty. She's a, she's a, um, shepherd, German Shepherd Husky, Chow, Chow, Mix. Oh, wow. Yeah.

If I really think about the things that I do 100% solely for myself, I would say those are the things. Like I just unapologetically like those five things. I love that. Yeah. I have one more question before we let you go. I'm wondering if there have been times when you just kind of wanted to run away. like just like 10 a.m. Today?

No, but like I'm thinking especially to kind of like the harder times, you know, and like, you know, even when my kids were like little, you know, and it just felt like, everything felt like really unmanageable and I, you know, I know you've had, you've had, as you mentioned, you've had relationships, you're currently in what we hope is a happy and beautiful and really healthy love. Yes, we got married in July. It's amazing. Yeah, you're a newlywed. I am.

He's amazing. But, but, you know, kind of like all of that. stuff aside like when things were harder like did you ever have that feeling of just like I wish I could just like turn it all off and just like start a new anonymous life elsewhere I no joke probably feel that currently at least once a month what is it and not because I am ungrateful for my life and not because I don't love what I do or my kids or any of that but I I I I I I I oftentimes my anxiety, my anxiety and depression will get so bad that, and this is, I'm being very honest about this. My anxiety and depression will get so bad and it happens definitely, at least once to twice a month, that I just, I want a tiny home in the middle of nowhere. I want no electronics. I want to read books and take walks with my dog and do jigsaw puzzles and write in a journal

and watch whatever the hell I want to watch and like that's it and I don't and listen to music and that's I want no outside external noise because it's overwhelming sometimes I think I feel that way more now than I probably did when I was young and things were uncomfortable I think because now

I'm asking myself to in response to feeling that way what do I do? I was going to say what takes that place? When you're young and you're like oh whatever I just feel that I have you know you're just kind of messy and all over the list now I'm like I feel it and I go oh

this requires me to reprioritize some things or maybe my boundaries aren't strong enough maybe I need to say no to some things or maybe I need to put certain things down and do, you know, and I'm, one of these days I may just do it and run away to my tiny home. If I didn't do it during COVID, which was a really, really hard time for me, I had a real mental breakdown during COVID. Lost 37 pounds, like just really struggled. I don't do well under stress and worry. And now when I have those thoughts of running away,

it makes me question how I can listen to myself to hold better boundaries for myself and do a little better self-care. And it's oftentimes, I guess, to revisit, you know, that list, you know, that we talked about. There's so many things I didn't get to. You have so many other credits, and I don't know, maybe you'd come back and play some more another time because also like you have so many fun things that you do and you know you've you've branched into producing and just like so many so many cool things that I didn't really get to talk to you about but I do want to say that you do you have a podcast correct I do I want to give that a special shout out yes I never thought I'd say this which is you're in your fifth season we finished our fifth season we are coming back for a six that I think is going to look a little bit different and I'm also branching out into potentially another podcast.

Oh wow. More of a comedy related one. Because you also do comedy, which is like its own thing I'm terrified of doing. I do, yeah. I just did a show at the comedy store this weekend. Oh my gosh. It wasn't pure stand-up. It was me and three other stand-ups and like a panel show.

That's amazing. Wow, that's really awesome. I'd love to also come see you because sometimes I leave this room. Yeah. But anyway. Sometimes I do too. Yes. No, but we're just, we're so grateful to have you on.

and we will tell everybody many more good things. Jonathan, anything else you want to say before we let this lady go? I'm just ready to post my Velveteen Rabbit quote on Instagram. I have it here. I've Googled it. Will you read it? Will you read it? It's one of my favorites and I'd love for people to listen to it.

Generally, by the time you are real, most of your hair has been loved off and your eyes dropped out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. but these things don't really matter at all because once you are real, you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand the velveteen rabbit. So after the velveteen rabbit made me cry. You're welcome. I hugged Jody goodbye and we kind of did that off camera because I wanted some time to kind of unpack with you. This is a really interesting conversation that we just had.

I don't think I've ever really considered the way she kind of presented that pressure element. I'm always so quick to say like, don't look at child stars any different than other people because it's true. Drug addiction, alcoholism, all those things happen to everybody. But the uniqueness of that kind of pressure was really interesting to me. I don't know if you resonated. You know, you also come from a family with a lot of pressure and you weren't in the public eye. No, but we've talked about the industry and how it breeds an intensity for not having needs. It was covered in the Raymond Simone episode and it was talked about a bit.

in the Will Wheaton episode, in the Jeanette McCurdy episode also. And there's this running theme of how that environment is a mirror to what we all grew up with, or many of us grow up with, where having no needs is the safest choice. And then what do we give up? What parts of ourselves do we start to get disconnected from? You know, you call me out on this sometimes. You know, I grew up in the aftermath of my brother's actions. And my sister before that was extremely sick and had undiagnosed fibromyalgia and had back surgery when

she was 11 and had all these mysterious conditions. So as the kid who had, you know, quote unquote, nothing wrong with him, you didn't want to make a fuss. But then there was almost a joke in my family that like the kids took turns hurting themselves or being hurt. Like my brother broke his leg. Okay. So now the family is focused on him. And in the absence of being able to have. have, and I don't mean to simplify it like this because it's much more complicated, but in the absence of sort of having space for emotions, well, if you're physically hurt, then you're able to get attention or you're able to have a need because then there's something actually wrong with you. Well, not surprisingly, we just went from me asking how you felt about the episode

and sort of my reflections on the industry. It went straight. No, no, no. But I think it's interesting. It went, it went. It got even more specific. I was hoping that you would kind of pull something general out of it. Like, oh, all families have pressure. But I think that's really interesting that you used a very specific example in your case because I think that's sort of, that's what I'm, I guess, alluding to. You know, there's all these other elements that we don't realize kind of make us, you know, who we are.

And there's also this notion of like, is there enough attention to go around? And I think when you're working on a set, you know, that's one example of like, well, there's clearly there's a lot of attention. but not necessarily for the things that I need, right? So how can I be of service? How can I help other people? But then also, you know, for you as a kid, when there's all of that attention not going to you,

of course there's a tendency to not want to like make trouble, but there's still a deep need to be seen. And, you know, what you did a lot of covert operations, I think. You know, you did a lot of things privately. You had a lot of sort of things that you shoved away. You know, it's almost like, look, I hurt too, but no one can know. Does that, I mean, does that sound kind of right?

Yeah, absolutely. That need doesn't go away, even if there isn't an outlet that it can be received. So then we start to find ways to express it in other areas. And I think the extrapolation is that very few families, well, maybe that's an overan exaggeration, but I don't know that many families that had a rich dialogue where the child's internal world got to get explored and mirrored and seen and held and expressed. And, you know, there was a lot of space for processing and teaching emotional vocabulary and the fact that sometimes your body hurts and that can be stress induced. And like, that didn't happen where I grew up.

I mean, I'm sure there are places where that did. And I know people who had maybe parents who had done that type of work, but our parents, you know, grew up in a different generation. They did the best they could. They tried and provided for us. And we also, as you begin to have a child and begin to parent, you learn, oh, wait a second, there are all these things that we either don't know how to do. And I say this often is like, you learn more about how you were raised by how you react to your child in pain. It's true. So the choices are, how could you do this to me? Right? How could you do this? Or how can I help? What's wrong with you?

What's wrong with you? Be quiet. Stop what you're doing. Stop crying. The level of like internal angst that happens when the child is unconsolable. Or blaming yourself, right? Like how could I not control this? It's so, I mean, you're so powerless.

Or what are other people going to think depending on where you are? Like that whole range of thinking shows you so much about what was prioritized in your home when you freaked out. I don't even know if if my ex-husband and I. like even knew what the word blame was until we had children. And then all of a sudden it just became a contest of who can blame the other. Like I would find ways to be like, you're breathing in the living room woke him for the sixth time. It's like, that's not even true.

But you find ways like, well, if you hadn't eaten beans at 4 a.m. yesterday, he wouldn't have, you know, poop now. Like it was, it just becomes. this gigantic blame game. And it's like, that tells me. Or if a child hurts themselves. Oh, it's your fault.

Or like falls off a jungle gym. Miles has a scar. He literally to this day, 17, he has a scar across his nose because Mike literally like accidentally scratched it. Like he was like picking him up and it was just like, it was this day that like whatever. You know, sometimes you forget to trim your nails if you're not a nail biteer like me. He shouldn't have been a nail bit a nail biter like me. And then he wouldn't have scratched our child.

And he literally has a scar to this. day. I have a question for you that's going to circle back to something you said previously. You talked about the amount of people watching you on set, not just like your performance, but like monitoring you and like, what are she doing? Oh, you have to go to the bathroom. Let me take you there. Let me wait outside.

Let me make sure you come back. Do not ask what I think you're going to ask. Do not go there. Stop it. What do you think I'm going to ask? Stop it. What do you think I'm going to ask? What do you think?

Stop it. you're going to ask if that's why I always want you around watching me do things. That's what you're going to ask. No, I was going to ask, what do you think it brings up for you in the absence of that? That's asking why I want you around all the time watching me do things. That's why you wanted me to watch you type your script. Shut up. Even though I wasn't helping anymore and you didn't want me searching the internet because you were like, oh, if he just like you wanted that,

Jonathan, what's your favorite thing for me to do with you? I don't know what. Go to the supermarket with you. That's just a good activity. But we have the same disease. You spot it, you got it. That's what it's called. You spot it, you got it.

And no, that's not why I wanted you to pay attention when I was writing. I wanted you to pay attention because we were in the middle of a writing session, and I wanted to have at least a glimmer of hope that we might be able to finish something without you doing seven other things while also making a list. of sporting activities you need to purchase supplies for for next summer. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have, this has been a lot of fun. We'll see you next time. It's My and Beallix Breakdown.

She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One, fiction. And now she's going to break.