Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Jonathan Lipnicki: Be Proactive in Finding Happiness

Episode Date: December 7, 2021

Jonathan Lipnicki (Jerry Maguire, Stuart Little, Comeback Kids podcast) opens up about his struggles with anxiety, panic attacks, and irrational fears. He discusses his difficulties with balancing the success of his career as a child actor with being severely bullied in school, and the coping mechanisms he has used to deal with bullying and anxiety. Mayim and Lipnicki bond over their martial arts training and the problem-solving it teaches, and Mayim adopts Lipnicki’s mantra. They discuss intergenerational trauma and the holocaust’s impact on familial anxiety, rumination manifested by anxiety, and the non-linear nature of therapy. We introduce a new segment called " Moments of Peace & Calm," and Mayim considers alcohol’s effects on anxiety in another installment of "Ask Mayim Anything." Jonathan Lipnicki's Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/comeback-kids/id1526366687 BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And that was the confusing thing for me was being like, okay, like, to them I'm like less than nothing. And to them I'm like pretty cool. And then people are like, oh, you must be the most popular guy at school. And I was like, definitely, definitely not. And it was like, you know, I'd have a crush and the girl would never have a crush on me. And like, you know, and it was like I'm dealing with that. And then I developed this really bad anxiety around middle school. Hi, I'm Violic and welcome to my breakdown.

This is the place where we break down the things that make us break down. We have a really fun. We have a break down for you. Because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. We have a really fun guest today. We're going to talk to a different Jonathan than the one sitting next to me. We're talking to Jonathan Lipnicki, who you might know most prominently because he was that cute little kid in Jerry McGuire.

But he's not just a cute little kid who grew up. He's a very interesting guy. We talk about martial arts. We talk about anxiety. He's really, really smart. It's really great. But before I tell you more about Jonathan Lipnicki, I'd like to introduce you to my beloved weight vest, Jonathan Cohen. People will get that reference later on.

If they stick it out with this episode. Yeah. If you don't drop off early, you'll get the weight vest reference. You will get the weight fast reference. Hello, Jonathan. How are you? Hi, I am. Hi, everyone.

I'm excited to be here today. mostly because we introduce a new segment at the end of the show. This is a really good end of show. I'm going to tell people right now, if you're that person who's like, I'm done after the guest, don't be that person today. You will not be sorry. How would you describe it? I kind of call you out a little bit.

I mean, we'll have to talk about that in therapy another time because, yes. I put you on the spot and you do really, really well. That's not the new, although that could be a new segment, calling Maim out on her shit. It might become a new segment. Kyle calling Ma'am out on her shit. That'll be the jingle. We need a new jingle. We need a new jingle.

Yeah, you call me out on things. I get very uncomfortable. But then you do introduce a new segment, kind of a realization. It was really good. I think we should keep this up. And you know what? Stay tuned for that. It all happened naturally.

It was just in the moment. Organic. Based on something that Jonathan says in the episode. That Jonathan, not this Jonathan. Exactly. So confusing. And also what's really exciting is that we have tried many times. Bev tried to do it.

Hunter tried to do it. Kelly Clarkson tried to do it. We've had many guests try to give Ma'em a mantra and it's never stuck. And today, of all days, once we gave up on the exercise and we just released it to the universe. Exactly. Finally, we got a mantra for Ma'am and you got to stick around to hear it.

Also, something funny in this episode, and this is only if you watch us on YouTube, Jeff, our fantastic everything person here, has reworked some camera stuff. It's not particularly important or interesting for me to go into detail, except there's now a camera that films the back of my neck.

And I'm wearing a ponytail for the first time. And I was distracted by my horrible posture, which is related to mental health because for me, my posture is, I mean, we need to do an episode on posture. Wow. That's a great idea. I'm making a note.

But what I've noticed is that Jeff has positioned the camera so you can see there's like a little roll of flesh when I have bad posture. You can also see, I do have a tattoo on the back of my neck. Which is usually hidden. And you can see it. It's, yeah, you can also see it in today's episode.

So if you want to go over to YouTube, new camera angle, thanks to Jeff. And that's Jeff with a pH in case anyone's curious. The other thing, I think, just to follow up on this posture, I've also been noticing it. Why are you touching your breasts?

Sorry. Random call. Completely looked like you were touching breasts. I was just, my hands were just in front of me as I sort of straightened my back but that's make me uncomfortable posture the center back you're super in to the thoracic spine lately

I'm all about the thoracic spine and you know we begin to round correct from computer use from phone use that's the other thing from shame we can't keep your head up you can't look straight you can't Open up your collar bones and put your shoulders back. But you know what I've, what I've noticed also is with people like me who I am self-conscious, just about my body in general.

And there's something very vulnerable. I'm not just saying about having breasts, because I think for men also, or maybe men who maybe don't feel like they're in optimal shape, like this part of your body and exposing it can be vulnerable. I mean, just on an emotional level, like we feel people. It's your heart. Exactly.

It's your heart opening. And whenever you, if you do yoga and stuff and they talk about like opening your heart, it's true. It's your breastbone, you know. It's also us breathing in and having more sensation in general. Makes me anxious just thinking about it. And as we open this area, we feel more. So if we don't like what we're feeling, if we're trying to control what we're feeling, we close up and we sort of round in on ourselves. And thanks to Jeff, these new camera angles, we have to realize we have to stay open.

I need to stay open. Let's talk about our guests. today, Jonathan Lipnicki is a native Angelino and celebrated actor. Indeed, he entered audience's hearts as a child in the Cameron Crow film Jerry McGuire opposite Tom Cruise, Kubigding Jr. And Renee Zellweger. He's done a ton of things. He starred in the film adaptation of the Stuart Little franchise opposite Michael J. Fox and Gina Davis. He's done so many things. He's done so many things. he was even on Dawson's Creek. Like, he's done things

throughout his life and career. I love the Stuart Little stuff. I know. I love the Stuart Little stuff, too. Also, he was recently made Black Belt. He is a Brazilian jiu-jitsu practitioner, and I have some experience with Brazilian jihitsu, which I'm excited to get to talk to Jonathan about.

The films he's been in have grossed a cumulative of over $800 million. I mean, like, just to be part, he's part of such an unbelievable way. world, you know, in his experience as an actor. But what we also are going to be talking to him about, he's been open about anxiety, panic attacks, and some really interesting irrational fears that popped up as a result of his anxiety, largely due to kind of being a public person, but also, you know, he says he comes by it very honestly. He has a very interesting family history.

His father was born in a refugee camp after the liberation of Germany. I'm very excited to speak to him. His family also owns an MMA promotion company, which is just kind of a cool random thing. It's called Fight Sports Entertainment. Anyway, we're going to talk to him. He also has a podcast. And I'm just very excited to see what he looks like right now. Jonathan Lipnicki, welcome to our breakdown. Break it down.

I'm very interested in so many things about you. Really? Should we talk about Jiu-Jitsu first? I think so. I think just jump right into it. So I did Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. I did Brazilian jiu-jitsu in college for several years. I now do taekwondo made the switch,

just because I'm not as young as I used to be. But when did you start in jiu-jitsu? So it's kind of a little interesting journey I had with jiu-jitsu. I first started when I was five years old, and I did it for a little while, and then I lost interest. Like a lot of young kids do it. I did childhood sports, baseball, basketball,

up until high school where I played water polo for my high school team in Agora. You look like you play water polo. I still do. Yeah. I don't still play water polo, but I still kept the look. You have the hair. That's right.

Yeah, exactly. And then in high school, I rediscovered jih Tzu because my friends were doing it. And then I've been doing it 16 and a half years old, 16. Wow. How old are you now? 31. Oh, you're 31. Okay, I was trying to do the math, and I thought you were 30.

You were a black belt, correct? Yeah, I got my black belt right before COVID. And it was a huge achievement on my, like I have, you know, these bucket list life, life things. And I was like, I always wanted to be a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt because those guys were superheroes to me. Yeah. And then I got there and now I'm like, wow, now the journey has just began, it feels like, you know. That's amazing. And, you know, when I did jiu-jitsu, I did it.

It was the Gracie school would come to UCLA. I was an undergrad at that time. So we weren't allowed to work towards belts because technically it was a rec class that happened to be staffed by, you know, the Gracie school. So I don't know much about, you know, the belt system, but obviously in Taekwondo, there's a whole belt system. I just became a red stripe. Very proud of that. Awesome. Congrats.

Yeah. Thank you. But tell me how it works with with Jiu-Jitsu. How many belts are there? Like, how do you progress? And then are there double black belts and triple black belts and things like that? There's white, blue, purple, brown, black. Not that many belts, but they take a long time.

Like, I was, I think, that blue belt for like four years and purple belt for like four years. Right. It took me a total of 14-ish years. Unbelievable. So then after black, there are degrees of black belt, and then there's like a few people in the world who are like coral belts, which is like a, you know, like a grandmaster type thing. But black belt, you know, it takes a long time to. get there. So, but it was, you know, it's one of those things that it was just like I started jiu-jitsu because I thought it was cool. It has all these other benefits. For me, I grew up

really bad anxiety and having things that I had to focus on the, you know, in the moment. And jiu-jitsu is a lot of problem solving. And that has really helped my mental health so much. That's awesome. And we'll get more into that. I've found that something about the discipline also of martial arts really, really agrees with me. You know, I'm a person who resonates with traditional Judaism. Like, I like rules. I like rituals. I like, I do. I like being told what to do. Right, Jonathan? I love being told what to do. And there's something about, I'm going to be honest, there's something about having to say yes, sir, you know, for, for, like in our, in our studio, you know, when he says switch legs, you say yes, sir. When he says step forward, you say yes.

You know, it's, there's a lot of discipline and it feels very containing. And as someone who, you know, also I have a lot of anxiety challenges, he's had to tell me to stop biting my nails in the middle of class. Like, that's what my anxiety is like. No, but it's, it's really, it is very healthy discipline. Both of my boys also do taekwondo and I've really, really enjoyed it. And the thing that I loved about jiu-jitsu is it's a lot of physics. It's a lot of learning where to leverage your weight, learning kind of the anchor points of your body so that you can actually, you know, still achieve a lot of, you know, things and arm bar. My Ambialx breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine, drink more water. There's no real data. There's no game plan.

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$20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention My and Biala's Breakdown to help support the show. Jonathan, maybe this is helpful for the audience. This audience might not know sort of like the basics of juditsu and why is it problems solving. Basically, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu started with, you know, the Grayses and then the Machadoes. And where it really came into mainstream play was they did this thing called UFC. And they showed the basically in UFC one, they took Hoise Gracie, which was not, he wasn't the most athletic brother. He wasn't the best brother at Jiu-Jitsu. They had, you know, some studs in that family. But Hoist is kind of, you know, a little dorkier looking and like a little skinny. And they had him

fight different experts of different martial arts. And he dominated and won, and it changed people's perception and perspective on what works, what works in a fight. And the great thing about jujitsu is it is, you know, the smaller guy can beat the bigger, stronger opponent using leverage, using technique. And that's so attractive to, I think, a lot of people who maybe weren't the biggest or strongest growing up. You know, I think it's such a valuable thing for anyone, but especially,

women, smaller people, because it teaches you that you can overcome these challenges with a bigger person, a more athletic person. And it also, what I mean about problem solving is it's literally human chess. You try to stay moves ahead of the person like you would in chess. You try to figure out, okay, how do I get to a dominant position? Just like you would on a chess board, how do I get to a place where I have more leverage over the other person's pieces on the board? I'm smiling because it makes me very excited because I love taekwondo. Don't get me wrong. And Taekwondo is a lot more formal. We have formal forms and then we have self-defense forms and things like that. But there's like, I don't want to say there's no rules because there are a tremendous

amount of rules in Jiu-Jitsu. But living in the moment, which I think is kind of what you indicated, you really, like you have no idea what is going to come at you. And you get to in fractions of seconds make calculations that can make a tremendous change. And You know, if you think about that as a metaphor for also your emotional life, it's incredibly powerful. I'm going to play the audience who knows absolutely nothing about this. Give us like an example of how you're leveraging. I take you down. I take you down right now. We're going to reenact. But like tell us how do you get that leverage?

So basically it depends. I mean, everybody starts standing, but a large majority of altercations do go to the ground. If you can take it to the ground and you know how to do that, there's wrestling takedowns. is for bigger people than trips. And basically you could be so much smaller than somebody and use a trip and put your foot inside their leg and take them down. And it's knowing then what to do once they're down. Exactly.

And it's counterintuitive and that's why it works because when you're on the bottom on the ground and you're getting punched in the face, you want to turn away from it naturally. That is the worst thing you can do. That's the worst thing you can do in Jiu-Jitsu because then you're open for a choke. Correct.

But basically where the leverage comes in is somebody can be on top of me much stronger, and I can figure out how to sweep them and get them on their back. I can come around their body and get their back and flatten them out. There's several ways in which I can overcome their brute force, which is going to be something that's usually a forward and backward motion, but there's, you know, you're moving your legs on the side, having good hip movement. And being quick and dexterous is also, that's the thing. Like, you know, if I were to imagine, if I'm on the floor, let's say, you know, face down and you're on top of me, which doesn't

sound strange at all. The fact is there's a, there is a point at which there's an opening for me to release your weight from my body and be able to. Just like the force of life. The force of life is pressing on us. And at some point, if I'm patient and calm, I'm going to find my way around it. Well, it is a lot of patience because also you can expend, I mean, the thing about jiu-jitsu is like, it's all, it is so incredibly exhausting. And honestly, I don't know if I could get back to it. Just, you know, in the body that I was given after having two kids. I'm sure people do it. I'm sure they exist.

I'm sure they're amazing women. But for me, the speed, the speed that I used to be able to work at. And the conservation of energy is very important because also when someone's on top of you or when someone's, of course, you want to expend all your energy to like fight, fight, fight, fight, but jujitsu is a lot about learning where those pauses are where you get to see an opportunity for safety. It is a total metaphor. Yeah. musical too in a sense that there's a crescendo you know like you know when to hit those those high

points of okay I'm gonna exert my energy here because that's gonna be where okay I'm I'm patient I'm sweep them that's where I'm gonna exert some energy yeah and also like it you know I used to obviously in case you couldn't tell watch all those UFC fights and and the fact is you know it's also a very Jewish concept like things can turn in a second it will look like someone is down and out and like this is it and And with, you know, three swift movements, they have someone a triangle hold and they've broken their arm and the game is over. Yeah, it's, you know, it's, and I think that's, you know, apropos for life. It's, I've always thought, you know, what are these problems I'm dealing with in life?

How can they possibly ever measure up to the fact that I've had somebody 250 pounds on top of me beating me up? You know, I've had my left ear fix. Like actually, you know, I want to. You have a proper jih Tjitsu ear. You know, I had my friends drained it a few times, but I also, I went to an amazing dermatologist in Westlidge who flattened it for me. It's still a little different than my other ear. Sometimes my ear pods pop out because I have the inner ear cauliflower. Wow.

But, you know, overall, still looking okay on the earfront. As an actor person who makes, you know, spends a lot of time in front of the camera, having someone punching you in the face, is that a concern for you? at all for your work? Well, that more happens in Muay Thai Cidji Jiu-Jit-2. There's no striking involved. But yeah, I've been punched in the face. I've had my nose busted. I am cognizant of it, but at the same time, like, I'm going to

roll with the punches. And if that makes me more a character, actor, I'm cool with that as well. I don't care. I love acting, and I'll figure out my way. It's not like boxing. It's not direct punches to the face as the

activity. But yes, boxing is definitely more of a challenge for a pretty face. All right. Let's go back in time a little bit. First of all, where are you from in Los Angeles? West Lake Village, California. Did you, you went to school out there? Yeah, I went to Agora High School. Oh, yes. I know. I've played tennis there. Yeah, so, I mean, obviously having a career at a young age, I balanced those two things.

And I went to public school throughout White Oak Elementary in West Lake, the Niro Canyon Middle School in the Gora, Agora High School. Wow. Really, really local. A local boy makes sense. good. Tell us a little bit about your childhood. What did your parents do? Were you from an industry family? I think you have a sister. Were you both in the acting world? How did you sort of find that world? So my dad, like a lot of Jewish fathers, is a CPA. Mine too. Yeah. My mom was a stay-at-home mother. She did work in production at one point in her life, but it's not like we were like very connected to the industry at all. How I got it to acting was my sister tried an acting class in Agora to reconnect with a friend.

They no longer were in the same school district. So they were reconnecting my mom and her mom who were writing partners. They would write, you know, screenplays. But it wasn't like, you know, it started as a screenplay. It's like my mom wasn't like super, you know, really, really locked into that. But they started going to this acting class to kind of get out. out of their shell and, you know, learn, learn how to be in front of people. And my mom would take me to pick her up. And my sister would go into this room and she would come out and she had a

smile on her face and loved it. I think, you know, a lot of times you want to do what your older sibling does. She's three years older than me. And also, unbeknownst to my mom, her friend had told the teacher that I had a lot of charisma and that she had to meet me. And she was willing to let me try it even though I was four and three quarters proudly. And I tried the acting class and I loved it. And we practiced these things in acting class called auditions. And I wanted to really do it. So I told my mom and my dad and they were like, but at a certain point, they're like, we have to be supportive parents. And if he, you know, has this passion, let's try it out for a little while. So I, you know, they're like, it's going to be a huge time commitment. And I was like, okay. And

I had some commercial success. I booked, I think, two or three commercials. And then I auditioned for this movie called Jerry McGuire. Right. And I did not get cast in it. And they cast another kid, and they shot two weeks with him. Stop it. And then it wasn't working out.

So they went to go recast the role. But I had been on a list that people had already been seen by casting. But I was seen by an associate. I wasn't seen by the casting director. And so my agent was the head of the kids division. I had talent agency at that time said, I stake my reputation on it. Don't see any of the other kids we rep.

Just see this guy. I have who you want sitting in my office. Wow. And he got me in there. And I had the audition. And they said, okay, how would you like to fly today to Arizona to read in front of Tom Cruz and Cameron Crow? And I was like, awesome.

I get to go on a plane and I get to go meet Maverick. Maverick is my favorite person in the whole world. And I get to go hang out with them. So, you know, I went and I read with Tom Cruise in his trailer with Cameron there and my parents and got the movie. And then being on set, I realized I want to do this for the rest of my life. And I knew that from the first time. Hold on.

How many days did you work? Like, what was your, you know, like a lot of people don't know. Like, does it take a week to film that movie? Does it take eight weeks to film that movie? Do you remember how long you actually worked? I don't. I don't remember. but I think of probably in the, you know, three months, four month range.

Okay, got it. I don't mean to embarrass you, and I'm sure you've, you know, had to deal with this, and I hope I'm not adding to any stress, but, you know, you were an exceptional young person as an actor. I mean, you really, you know, you weren't just cute. I mean, you were ridiculously cute, though. Like, that's just the kind of child that when you see in the, street. You have to be like, oh my God, that kid is so cute. You were, you were. Jonathan can vouch

for this. I don't really like kids. Like, I like mine. I'm like not a kid person. But I remember when I saw you, I was like, okay, first of all, that's cute. But you really did. You had a very specific sense of a presence. I mean, it's very like, that's a little old soul. Like, that's what, you know, people usually say about, you know, kids like that. Also, you know, I don't. Also, you know, didn't start acting until I was 11. I was in junior high, like, totally different universe. Like, when I was five, I was, like, crying because I messed up the, you know, the drum. I had to hit the drum once at the end of my kindergarten graduation, and I messed it up and I cried for, like, six years, you know? So I can't imagine, you know, being, I could barely imagine being 11 in front

of a camera. I was terrified. And also, like, of course, like, you know, the part was like, you had to be cute and it was this, that, the other. But it wasn't. It wasn't. a very, very special performance. I mean, it really was. And, you know, you were one of those people who it's like, I remember at the time, I was like, where, where's this going to go, you know, because you clearly had talent. But at that, like, there's almost something like otherworldly about that kind of presence in a five-year-old, you know. Wow. Thank you. No, but I was not a carous, I mean, of course, like, looking back, people are like, we always knew something special about my am. Like, sure, I was like, I was weird. I know that I was a weird kid, but I don't think anyone at

five would have been like, this is the child that can hold a presence in front of a camera. Like, no, there's a lot of intelligence you have. There's a lot of things about you. That's not the only thing, but so early in your life, we kind of, we got to own you. We got to say, like, this is who, this is who you are and this is what you represent. Of course that's going to lead to anxiety. Like, of course. It's such an enormous responsibility in positive ways. But it also, and I think a lot of people don't think about anxiety can also come from good things. Of course, we know how to have anxiety over the fears that we have. Some are rational. Some are irrational. You know, I believe my chemistry is programmed to function up here, you know, and I have to learn to bring it down.

But anxiety can also come from amazing opportunity that then leads to the things that that your brain does with that. Does any of that sort of resonate with you in terms of sort of the development of your identity? Yeah, I think, you know, we all have our attributes, our gifts, our weaknesses. I think the biggest gift I was given is I've always had a really big heart and a really big sense of empathy and caring about others. And I think that the way I approach acting, this is what I tell people is I think it's really selfless if you treat it right, because it's about the other person and it's about illuminating the human condition. And I I think that's the thing that I'm gifted with, not, you know, oh, this person is going to be a star necessarily, but I think it's because I've always been very open.

And, I mean, I did go through later in life being a little closed off. But I think, you know, with me, the minute I started doing acting, it felt right. And for better or worse, bigger parts of my, you know, better parts of my career, worse parts of my careers. but I think it's I don't really know beyond that like it's it was just it felt right and from there on I got technical training later on

when I was 18 19 but I think the thing I was really gifted was a big heart and I say that to people I'm like you know what I have now worked very hard at it I believe I'm a really good actor but I believe my biggest attribute is that I have a big heart

and that I care about other people and that I care about the human condition and I care about doing the right thing in life. And I think that translates to trying to be the most honest with my work. And I think at five years old, you just don't have those filters. Those come later on. And you can play. And it's that sense of play.

I've been always trying to get back to because if you don't think about it and you just do it, that's why we see so many beautiful performances from kids throughout history is because they don't have those filters yet. It's the minute that they try to get kids to be cute or tell them, like, you have to do this. And you're going to say it in this way is when you start losing that. that and then you start building those filters. But for me, I've always been really curious. I've always had a big heart. And I've always wanted to do the right thing and be honest with who I am. And I think that's the greatest thing you can bring to acting is honesty and being who you are.

And yeah, I do honestly, though, think I would have had anxiety anyway. My parents are anxious. You know, I think I would have just had it. I think I would. But it's on a different level when you think something's going to affect your career or hurt you. I never wanted to be, they tell you from a young age, don't be a train wreck like so-and-so or a diva like so-and-so. So anxiety definitely came into play in a career sense, too, where I didn't want to mess up this thing that I love so much. You continued acting.

I mean, like, acting, like you were, and I think you and I probably, you know, have a lot in common of like being in and out of school, and I also went to public school, you know, through my whole, you know, acting life. I totally don't want this to become me and John. Jonathan, this Jonathan, you know, getting to talk about how hard it was. But there are certain people who are child actors who have a really smooth kind of social

integration. I was not that person. And you were not that person either. And, you know, I think that, you know, what's what I'd like to kind of focus on, because also like I'm just fascinated and like would love to share all my sad stories. But I think what's interesting is that, you know, there's this mismatch. that can happen for us between the way some people see us and then the way other people see us.

And I wonder if you can sort of talk a little bit about what that balance was like, because I think that's something that a lot of people can relate to. There are some arenas of our life where we're like doing great and like people like us and everything's great. But then there's other people who were like, no, this is not acceptable,

I don't wanna hang out with you or I don't wanna date you or whatever it is. So you had this kind of like, you had two lives, you know, you had one world that was constantly praising, you, constantly paying you, or not constantly, I just mean, like, you were being paid to operate in one world where you had success. I mean, success that some adults never experienced. But then you had this other world, you know, socially as a normal person where you were not receiving

that. And again, I'm like literally just describing sort of my life, but wondering, was that something you were kind of, were you conscious of that as like, this is painful? What do I do? Or was it kind of like you just white knuckled it through? Like tell us what that conflict was like. A little bit of everything. You know, I think that you also, you learn coping mechanisms. My parents, you know, luckily put me in therapy pretty, pretty young. But I was coping with a lot because elementary school wasn't so bad.

It was middle school. And I was coming off a really great summer where I had two movies out in theaters. They both did really well. I was really happy with my career. I was excited to make new friends because several schools fed into this one school. And it was not a good experience for me. First, it was like a lot of attention, just, oh, my God. You're so-and-so.

And then it turns negative with it like, he thinks he's better than everyone else. And I'm not that person. I've never been that person. My parents were like, that's nice you do movies, go clean the gutters. You know, it wasn't. I was not treated different by my parents or, you know, which is great. my parents are awesome. But yeah, during the day, you go to this, you go to school and you're like, everyone's

like, yeah, yeah, whatever, you dress funny or you're stupid or you're this or that or you think you're good or like, you know, you're lame or like your movie suck. And then, you know, and that's like me putting it nicely. Like it was pretty bad. But then at night you go to these events or you go to, you know, where you book a movie and you're gone from school and like you're treated completely differently and you don't know where you stand in the world. And that was the confusing thing for me.

was being like, okay, like, to them I'm like less than nothing. And to them, I'm like, pretty cool. And then people are like, oh, you must be the most popular guy at school. And I was like, definitely, definitely not. And it was like, you know, I'd have a crush and the girl would never have a crush on me. And like, you know, and it was like, I'm dealing with that. And then I developed this really bad anxiety around middle school where I was dealing with having a panic attack every day. Like, what am I going to wear?

Because I really was into, like, basketball and I wore like big jerseys. And everyone made fun of me for that. but I really like basketball. So I'd have weird panic attacks every night before school anyway. But then I was also dealing with the separate super, super irrational anxiety where I was scared of like weird stuff, like chemicals poisoning me every day. Like, oh no, did I breathe in something or this or that? Like really bad and really out there.

So I thought I was going to die every day of my life for like five years. You know, and then I got better with coping mechanisms and anxiety. You know, it's not a linear thing. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's bad. I went through a really bad part of it, like about five months ago. I went through horrible anxiety. I couldn't wake up without my heart racing every day.

And you learned to cope. Did I white knuckle some of it? Definitely. Did I also look at maybe going to a different school? Definitely. But you know what? I found my tribe of people, but I think that also the more you become fascinated with what you're truly interested in,

you find like-minded people. and I hate with the bullying. You have a lot of bullying campaigns. It gets better. Yeah, but what do you do in the moment? Right. You know, it's such an adult way of looking at it. Like, you'll be good.

Just wait. No, I think in the moment, you've got to really focus on the things you love because then you'll be drawn to different people who love the same things. And I think that it's good that bullying is being talked about more because it's, you know, it was horrible. Like, I hated my life for like a long period. And it sucks. but you also got to be proactive in your own happiness.

And I think that, like, there's a difference between validating your experience and then, like, wallowing in it. And I learned that pretty early on. And I think, like, coping mechanisms became better, but also, like, my sense, my threshold became better. What are some of the coping mechanisms? And were these ones you learned in therapy or just kind of by trial and error? Therapy and trial and error.

Honestly, I started just talk, like, people were going to be mean to me. I'd turn it around on them, like, you know? And they're, like, and stopped carrying, like, well, that's going to, then I'm a mean. But no, I'm not. They started it. I talked to chip back to them, you know. And also I invested in the friendships I did have.

I developed this thing and I didn't have like a name for it early on, but now this is what I call it. It is, I will allow myself to feel poorly, but I will never allow myself to feel core me. There's a difference between validating your experience and going, this sucks and I'm going. through it rather than being like, my life is worse than everybody else. And nobody understands me in my life. Is that my problem? Yeah. That's the game I play.

Say it again. I always say I'll allow myself to feel poorly, but I will not allow myself to feel poor. To feel poor me. That's my new mantra. I like this, Jonathan, better than this one. Always looking for a replacement. I wanted to ask a little bit more about, let's first talk about your dad, the CPS. You said he's anxious.

Jonathan, would you describe your father who's a CPA as anxious? I don't want to speak out of turn about my dad. So I'm only going to say things that I think he acknowledges. Okay. He has definitely had anxiety. And his framework is risk mitigation. Everything is calculated in terms of what is the possible risk, even when there is no possible risk. Which as a CPA is a fantastic skill.

I mean, he is literally a savant. He is beyond brilliant. I'm in awe of how his brain works. And also that level of analysis. He generalizes it to the world. It has definitely had a hindrance to him in certain aspects because he can't help go down a rabbit hole of what is the worst possible thing that could happen in any given circumstance. And that's a difficult mindset to sort of be on constantly.

Right. Well, and also when we're the child of anxious parents, like they don't always realize how that impacts us, you know? And I think it, you know, especially when we were growing up, you're, you know, a bit younger than us. But, you know, when we were growing up, like, there wasn't really a concept of that, that like, oh, what's floating around in the house impacts children? Like, they're just in their room. Everything's fine. Yeah, with my dad, because my parents both had, I'd say, anxiety in different ways. My mom, creative, had that kind of anxiety flow of, like, frenetic energy sometimes. My dad was born.

in a refugee camp after World War II. And he's a little older. And grew up poor. And I think there's that mentality of scarcity. And so I think growing up from that, he was just, you know, he was aware of everything and very much like watch out for this or watch out for that. And that was more of his anxiety where my mom was more like a do do gooder. I don't know if that's the right word for it.

But like a really good, a really good person. and worried about doing the wrong thing. My dad worried about other people doing the wrong thing to him or us. Yeah, let's take a little dive into there. So for those of you who don't know, your dad was born just after the liberation, after World War II. Yes. That's what you're talking about.

Yeah, and they moved in Canada because the United States had closed their borders. So why don't you tell us a little bit because this is something we do talk about. You know, we talk about intergenerational trauma. We talk about, in particular, there's been a lot of research about the impact of the Holocaust on familial anxiety and that there's a, you know, there's an aspect to that particular kind of anxiety.

So tell us a little bit about your dad's parents and what their experience was. I never met that side of my dad's family. It was pretty fractured early to later on. But they, you know, they fled like many people. And they, I believe the refugee camp, they settled, they're Polish. But the refugee camp they settled in, I believe I could be wrong, was in Germany. And on my mom's side, they came quite earlier to Ellis Island. But my dad grew up with kind of like that mentality of like watch your back. Like people,

they're out to get. What I've noticed with that type of trauma is my grandfather on my mom's side, he's my, so I never met my like biological grandfather, but my step grandfather survived Auschwitz. And he had a different mentality than my dad. And I noticed. that there's two ways it can go. My grandfather was like, bless every day, drink more wine, eat more food,

like take a risk. And my dad is like, no risks, you know, structured, very, you know, very analytical.

So it was very interesting to have both of those perspectives growing up because I was quite close with my grandfather before he passed. And it's interesting to see those two things

kind of at play because I was like, you could be kind of confusing as a kid where you're like, wait, do I, do I live every day like this or do I watch out for people or like, what is going on? Not confusing at all. You take a risk while watching out for the person stabbing you in the back. That's right. Enjoy your risks while someone's about to hurt you. Exactly. And I love for my dad where my dad's kind of lightened up a lot on that. So that's great. You know, I was with him last night. We were hanging out and laughing and he's lightened up on a lot

of things. And I'm like, good, good for you. Because, I mean, it takes, it takes a lot to overcome those things, you know, sometimes. Is your sister in the industry? Did she stay in the acting world? She's in corporate PR. She did not stay in the acting world. She did some, like, voiceover. She had some, you know, mild success in that, but it wasn't for her, and that's okay. Would she describe herself as someone who's anxious? Like, are you guys similar that way? No, not at all. I don't think she gets anxious really. Right. She got the other part of the jeans. Isn't that amazing? Exactly. Yeah. Like she's very different for me.

I think with, except the anxiety, I'm, I'm more like my mother and she's more like my father, minus the anxiety. But, you know, my sister's very much to like, snap out of it. Like, you know, she's one of those people who's like the best person to have your back because she will fight ferociously for you. And she will also whip your ass if you need to like get into shape and be like if she sees me doing something that she thinks is not, you know, that is a waste of. the time she'll be like don't do that do this you know she's a boss lady she runs shit you know i do want to ask a couple more questions sort of about um what your therapy experience has been like you started as a teenager is that something you continued yeah yeah um i mean sometimes it's on and off but um i continued uh for a long time now i'm in the process of finding finding a therapist again

um because uh my therapist is not practicing anymore but um it's been really positive for me. I think also like, you know, just like doctors, just like anything, all therapists aren't equal, you know, I think I've found sometimes you got to find ones that mesh with you. The last one I had, you know, we mesh really well and it's sad to see her go because she was awesome. Yeah. But it's been a really positive thing for me because I have such an overactive mind that I need to slow down and really talk about things and work them through. And overall, yeah, I mean, it's sometimes it takes up. that repetition, like in anything, like you don't do one bicep curl and you have biceps,

you know? I think therapy, a lot of it's repetition, telling yourself the stuff you already know and has to be explained in a few different ways, maybe sometimes a hundred different ways, and then you kind of start to get it. And it's two steps forward, one step back is in a linear thing. And I'm still finding ways of coping in ways, you know, to do things. I think that, you know, during much like probably everybody else, I took a step back during the beginning middle pandemic

quarantine section where I definitely took a step back and I needed to reevaluate and really really hit therapy hard and really write a lot out. You know, I end up writing my first pilot during that time. And it was just a lot about how I felt about the world.

And I think therapy, I can attribute a lot of the successful tendencies I have to doing therapy. You mentioned something about five months ago and just like anxiety stuff, you know, one of the things that, one of the reasons that Jonathan and I start, my Jonathan, one of the reasons that we started this podcast was because my mental health was not in a good place, you know, really, well, kind of ever, but especially it took a special dive when COVID started. And, you know, I always have anticipatory

anxiety. Like, that's just where I live. So to then have, you know, something happens. And, you know, something happening that was literally a global pandemic. And also, like, I don't know, people seem maybe forget that at the same time, there was like a lot of stuff coming out of the White House that was confusing. There was tweets that people were confused about. Like, it was a really intense time. And that's really why we started this podcast was because, well, we wanted to find a place to put our energy and our anxiety around it.

We were just looking for new mantras. That's right. But I guess I would like to know for you. and I think it would be helpful for people listening, what does your anxiety look like when it spikes? Is it thinking? Is it doing? You know, how does it look for you?

Ruminating. Ruminating, ruminating, ruminating, ruminating. On the what if, what if this happens? What if this is something that affects me in a negative way? What if I can't do this? What if, you know, I mean, during the, what if I never work again? What if I, you know, it's the what ifs will kill me

and the ruminating on that, you know, or it's, it's either, worrying about the future or worrying about how the past is going to affect the future. And it's not, it's all this stuff is out of my control. And like 99.9% of it is super irrational. And that's how it looks. And it looks for me like my heart racing, like not being able to be in the moment at all. And then when you get those things taken away from you like Brazilian jiu-jitsu during, you know,

because it's heavily relies on you being on top of other people. Then I realize, oh, crap, one of my main coping mechanisms. is just gone, you know, and I think that was really hard. But when it spikes, yeah, it looks like staying in my room a lot. Hard to get out of bed. Hard to do anything. You know, the great thing is I have a dog, so I have to get out of bed. I have to take him to the bathroom.

I have to take care of him. That's why I have cats. Cats are better for depression. But one of the greatest things I did learn is don't, whatever you can do, don't stay in bed. If you can go into the sunlight, if you can go outside and, you know, look at trees, that is the best thing you can do for yourself because then all of a sudden you have things to focus on and you realize the world is not a horrible, dark, dark place. You know, maybe at that moment, it feels like it.

But, you know, overall, I think life is really beautiful. And despite being in a really weird time in history and one of the most divisive times where you, everyone is arguing and everyone, you know, you still can find peace within that because you can learn to accept the things you can't control and it's hard and it takes practice and it takes repetition. But I'm still working on it all the time. But really focusing on what you can control and not focusing on what you can't. And what I can control is going outside.

I can go outside and I can go for a walk. I can listen to meditation music all the time. I fall asleep to meditation music. Getting myself in a place where I can let go of those thoughts. But I read something really interesting recently in a book called. Loving What Is, where she talks about not trying to let go of thoughts, but trying to have thoughts let go of you. And it was a really interesting perspective. And I think that the more you can look at things and realize, okay, this is in my power and this is not, you know, you're going to set

yourself up to be in a better place. And sometimes, you know, sometimes it's just continuing. Sometimes you do need to relax. Sometimes you do need to stay in bed. But the best thing I think is to at least get out a little bit, see the world, see cars go by, see trees, see dogs, and realize that there's a whole world out there that you're not in control of and, you know, your problems are relatively small. Are you a person that has benefited from medication? Like some people do take medication, some people don't. You don't have to talk about it if you don't want to. Oh, no, I'm really open about it. I do. I have for a long time. I will get off it. It is a plan. I was actually planning on getting off it and then the global pandemic happened. So that wasn't, and I was like, you know, I'm a stay in all

little longer. You say a little, little longer. Yeah, I have benefited from it. I don't think there's, you know, there's sometimes a stigma around.

I've, I've been friends with or dated people that were weird about it or like, you need it. I don't need it. I'm like, I don't think you need it.

But I think it's, it's, you know, people sometimes are like, you know, oh, well, I don't want to have a crutch. It's not a crutch because sometimes you need

something to take away the noise so that you can focus on how do I now implement these coping mechanisms. And when you learn the mechanisms, and you learn the things you can do, then you can taper off those things. That's beautifully said.

That is beautifully said. It is to take away the noise. I like to say when you can't picture a way out, that's often when it's time to think about medication because the medication can release that there's no way out so that you can see all the ways out and through. Exactly. Like running with a weight vest on.

If you can remove the weight vest, yeah, running still is hard. but it's not nearly as hard as when you have a weight vest on. And also, you know what I did during quarantine, which was really valuable, is I have a friend who does mental strength training. So he works with top athletes. He works with people. And that removed that weight vest feeling was part of its guided meditation,

part of its writing down how you feel and transmuting those beliefs and turning them into how you can look at it from a positive perspective within the confines of how you can control it. and then the things that you can't control surrendering to those things. And it's hard and it's easier said than done, but actually putting an active method towards that. And there's so many great things. I mean, we're not stuck.

We live in a time with YouTube where there's amazing speakers on there. Amazing people have dealt with what you're dealing with. Many people have. And you can see a lot of great speakers and there might be something that will connect with you. There's going to be a lot of things that don't connect with you, but it might be the same exact thing that someone else said, but just slightly different, and then it connects with you and you go, oh, and you have an aha moment, which leads to more steps in the right direction.

Here's a question. Might be a weird one. You don't strike me as a kind of person who likes drinking and drugs. Am I right? You know what? I partake in a little marijuana here and there. And, you know, I'm from California, you know, after all, not a huge drinker. I will go out with my friends.

I actually took a year off drinking up until recently, and that was very positive because if I noticed that I'm having more anxiety or problems with depression, I just don't drink at all. You know, if I'm dealing with, if I'm going through something, I just don't do that because it's going to make it 10 times worse the next day. So drinking, I have a relationship with where I am, you know, like recently I had my birthday in Halloween and I went out and I had an amazing time recently. Let me tell you, it was great. But then I realized, you know, I was feeling a little down. And I was like, okay, cool. Then I'm not going to do it for a while. And I have that type of relationship with it.

And it can be not one of those things where I go out and I drink and I do something crazy. But the next day, I feel horrible and emotionally horrible. You know, I've noticed this more as I get older. I just, my body can't metabolize alcohol the way that it used to. Not at all. Yeah, like it, I take a heart. or hit, you know, from one drink. I've pretty much, I don't, I mean, I've pretty much given up drinking. Most of the time, it's not worth it for me because I do have things to do the next day.

And it had, you know, I never was a great person at metabolizing it. I've always been kind of a lightweight. Can't hang with my friends who went to college and did the frat thing. I cannot hang with them at all. But I, it's just not worth it most of the time for me. You know, it's like lately I've had things to celebrate. And that's when it's okay. Right. And that's when it feels, okay with me. But then I realized, okay, why am I feeling down the last few days? I'm like, oh, because I had a weekend out with my friends, time to cut, you know, and time to, time to not do it for a while, you know? And then honestly, the way it's been going with me, I could see myself in the future not doing it at all or taking another year off. I just don't live in deference

because I think if you live in a black and white, never going to do it again, then it puts a weird pressure and a weird, like, dark cloud over it. You know, unless you do have an issue with substance, then yeah, don't do it ever again. But I think, you know, for someone who you notice, like, in and out, you know, stuff like that, I think it's very important to, you know, sometimes I like testing myself. So I'll be like, I won't do it for six months. I won't do it for a year. And that, for me, is a fun test.

But also, I'm not putting definites on it. Like, I'm never going to do it ever again because I think that's a hard thing to live up to and then you're destined to fail. And then when you fail, you feel terrible about yourself. But, you know, I think that setting reasonable expectations, unless it is something you are dealing with and not doing it. Jonathan, you're delightful, and this was really, really fun to get to talk to you and connect with you this way.

You know, I really have, I've admired your career and really, really hoped that you were okay. I mean, I just like, you know, I always hoped that. And you obviously have had your challenges, but I think you're so, you're such an articulate and self-aware person. And it sounds like you work really, really, really. hard on yourself and I really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you. Tell us what we can, what, what would you like to plug or talk about? I know you have a podcast. What would you like to talk about before you go? I do. Come back kids. Check it out. We're kind of revamping it right now. So that is,

that is something you should check out. It's about people overcoming adversity to find success and what they're passionate about. I think that's something we all need is a little pump up. I have a movie that came out last year on, on Amazon, but it needs more love. It's called Broil, and I play a serial killer in it, which is very fun. Awesome. I did a movie in August called The Re-Education of Molly Singer with Jamie Presley and Britt Robertson. Don't know when it's going to come out.

Filmed it. Then you just don't know. Could be next year. It could be the year after. It seems like it's going to be a cool one. So check that out. And keep up with me on Instagram at Jonathan Lipnicki. Awesome.

Thank you so much. This was really great. Thank you for having me. I was really excited to be on this one. How did you feel? about our first Jonathan. Jonathan with a CPA father. It doesn't make any sense.

Is his dad your dad? Maybe he, did he have two families? That would be weird. All right. I'm going to do something here. You're going to be okay with it. But I'm calling you out just a tiny bit. What?

You said a couple times, and you've said it in the past, you're like, my mental health, not okay ever. But we're not doing that anymore, right? That's not. I'm sorry. I don't remember how I How did I phrase it? I don't know.

It was like a joke. It was like offhanded. It was self-deprecating. And we sort of made a new rule here that we sort of, you've joked in the past. I'm taking on Jonathan Lipnicki's mantra. It's the first mantra that has stuck.

I can say that. We've tried to assign you other mantras, Bev, Hunter McGrady. Those mantras were not going to work. I'm beautiful. I'm fantastic. I'm gorgeous. I'm thankful for my kidneys.

I can feel poorly, but not poor me. How does that feel for you? I feel great. There have been comments. They're like, oh, you know, she talks about her mental health. And the difference between validating an experience versus wallowing in that experience, because, you know, we're funny. We're self-deprecating.

We, you know, we throw jokes around. But the reality is that... Is this coming from people's comments? Are you reading comments? again. I always read comments. People out there know that I... People think that I wallow in self-pity? No, but people are like, I never knew that. That she struggled so much, which is one thing, but I think we should make a distinction that you do an enormous amount of work being strong and getting resilient and overcoming very difficult challenges. I also left the industry for 12 years and had

like a whole life that, you know, most people don't know about except the, you know, people that I spent my life with for, you know, a large portion of my existence. Yeah, I mean, I've also been in therapy since I'm like 17 years old and I've, you know, been on every medication there is and. But I think, I think often if I look at ourselves. So then people are like, why is she still a mess? Because welcome to being human. But I think that's, you pride yourself on being like, this isn't a podcast about people who

have figured it out. It's true. And you're very cautious about like having. answers. But the reality is, and I listen back to a lot of these episodes in editing, there is a lot of wisdom in your experience. You have done a lot of personal growth and change, and you do experience moments of calm, intuition, revelation, which are, you know, hallmarks of the work that we do. Thank you. And you tend to under, well, I just think you tend to underplay that. So you talk more about the struggle. I think. That's mostly because I'm a people pleaser and

want people to feel that they can relate and nobody wants to be like, let's look at this wealthy famous person who's figured it all out. And I think sometimes the perception is from what I've seen and sort of felt. I feel like this is something we should deal with in couples therapy. This is couples therapy. That's why we're here with our microphones. Oh, are there comments about that? You don't read those comments. Because you can't run away. We're in the middle of recording. I can bring up all the hard stuff right here. It's not unhealthy at all. I think because you want it to be relatable, because you're concerned about having answers and people being like, oh, she can afford all of this stuff, you tend to focus more,

or not focus on, but articulate on air. I mean, we're recording not live. And I think it, you know, paints a picture that you, or maybe doesn't highlight the fact that you do have an enormous number of very powerful self-realizations, just like this last week. The number of, you know, really deep personal insights you've had are profound and doing journaling and reflecting and unpacking things that are going on. So I really think people deserve to hear that side of your experience too because it is inspiring that people can do that work. Thank you. And that's actually what I really appreciated about this Jonathan's honesty. You know, he wasn't afraid to to tell all the work that he's done.

Yeah, I mean, he's also, he's kind of gone public with a, you know, he did an interview with People Magazine. People Magazine seems to be the place where everybody talks about mental health. No one's asking me about mental health. Should they be calling us? We would be adorable on the cover. People Magazine, if you're listening to this. We think we should be on the cover.

I'll just take an article, a featured article. I don't want a back page. He doesn't like a back page. No, but I really did, do appreciate, you know, Jonathan and being so honest, you know. Sometimes we child actors also do the other thing. It just gets sugar-coded. Everything's amazing.

My life's amazing, you know? And yeah, it sounds like he has very good support from his family, which I think is lovely. His sister sounds intense. She sounds like a lot. I want to meet her. I know, me too. But no, I really, really enjoyed also, you know, just pure curiosity. Like, have you seen Jerry McGuire lately?

I mean, not lately, but like, it's so impactful. It's, I mean, his performance in particular. And I'm not saying he was like the Shakespearean Academy Award winning actor. I mean, at that age. But there was something. No, there was something about him that was not as saccharin as a lot of kids. You know, I mean, also just ridiculously cute. It's, you know, he was.

He was very cute with the little glasses. I can't. Anyway, anything else. Do you think he had those glasses or those were prop glasses? We should have asked him that. We should have asked him. What else? Also, a little callback from the beginning of the podcast, if there are women who have had two kids and gone back to Brazilian Jiu-Ditsu.

Please message us. Send pictures. Send us a video of how you're kicking butt. Here, you know what? Here's a little tidbit for you. I wish I had put on makeup so that you could actually use this without me being like, I look horrible. Don't use it. Oh, you're not allowed to say that anymore. You're in acceptance of yourself. Shut up, Jonathan. I'm done with you. You love how you. You love how your teeth work. He had a great set of teeth. Great set of choppers. No, what I was going to say is that I was 35 pounds over my normal resting weight when I got pregnant with my first.

Yeah. So I had 80 pounds to lose. I'm just going to say it. I lost, I did. I lost 80 pounds after the first. I lost 80 pounds after my first child. That's a lot of weight. I'm 5'4, so you don't even have to do the math.

I told the midwife to just stop weighing me, like at a certain point. I weighed more than my six foot tall at that time husband when I gave birth. I saw pictures. I didn't recognize you. Jim Parsons famously said when I showed him that picture, why would you show this to anyone? And I was like, you ask to see it. And he's like, still. Anyway, what I was going to say is after I lost that weight, you know, and even was back to, yeah, more of my fighting weight,

There was something about having given birth and that process that made it seem impossible for my body to do things like it used to, like leave the ground with any velocity. Meaning I was a dancer. I was a dancer. I was a gymnast. You know, leaping was my thing. And there was something about the new gravity of my body that was like, how do I, you know, that's why when I took up running. It's because your children are on the ground. They don't want you leaving it.

Well, honestly, you know, there's something about like some sort of mystical tether. That's really what it felt like. Go lower, not higher. Well, just, you know, anyway. But when I started running, it was right when I got divorced, I took up running. And that was like the first time my kids were four and seven. So, you know, do the math. Like, it's the first time that, like, it felt like, oh, my God, my body has, like, this movement again.

I'm not saying that the marriage was what was making me feel like that. I'm saying there was some process in my physiology that was like, no, now you just stay in the kitchen and cook forever. Like I think that's what my genes were like, oh, this happened. No need to leave the ground or put on shoes. Just an apron. Shoes are over for you. So jujitsu seemed impossible. Maybe that's the next step for you.

Well, you know, taekwondo has felt like a more manageable thing from, and taekwondo is extremely rigorous. But I'm saying like, I can't compete at the level that our black belts do that my 16-year-old can. But there's, there is something about finding your body movement again. There is a picture in your fridge of you doing... That is a running, jumping, sidekick, yep. And you are not on the ground. No. You are flying through the air.

And my form is pretty good. My form's pretty good. That was a very big... I think that was for Blue Belt. You have to do a running, jumping, sidekick. I actually, those are my favorite. Because in my mind, I'm Bruce Lee. I just want you to know what I'm picturing.

Valerie and Aaron, let's make a reminder to put that picture on the internet. We'll put it on Bialik breakdown on Instagram. Appialic Breakdown. Go ahead and follow that for that and more. Follow that for behind the scenes footage. And before we do and ask Miami, anything, Ma'am, why don't you tell everyone

about a recent moment of calm and serenity that you've had? Yeah, I'm putting you on the spot. Oh, okay. Do you know what it is? Nope. Oh, it's just like a recent moment of calm and serenity. Moments of peace and calm,

Miami realizes something. Okay. I was in bed last night and something I had gotten into the habit of doing a couple months ago and then had stopped, I tried to start again, there's a place that your body rests when you like close your eyes and you're like, okay, I'm going to go to sleep. And what I have learned about my body, and I think it's probably true for more people than realize it, is that the place that you think that you're assuming that your

body's going to rest when you start to go to sleep is actually not the most relaxed position or placement of your body parts. And what I realized is that I often am so disconnected from my body because my mind is like just, you know, processing the day, processing whatever I was working on before I went to bed, processing the documentary about a serial killer that I may or may not have been watching. And what I started to do is I started to kind of go through my body and say like, is this really where my shoulder wants to be? And I was like, no, it's up here. It wants to be here, you know, and I'm laying on my side because I do that. And for those people who are just listening, she sort of has her shoulder up and she's relaxing it and pulling it down. I dropped it into the place that.

Okay. So then I was like, okay, so that was then. Where's the other arm? Well, it's kind of kinked up to the side. It doesn't want to be there. It wants to lay down. And I kind of do that. I go through my whole body.

And this takes literally a minute. It's not, it's like you can, you can focus on parts of your body legs, but like my, my hips, like there's this notion, no idea where this came from, that my hips don't need to be as close to my shoulders when I'm laying down. So like there's just like a slight wiggle that I do where I feel like I gain an inch. or two, that I'm like, and I'm not saying I'm stretching out. I'm saying that even in a curled up the fetal position, holding a pillow, if you'd like to know how I sleep, there's still an opening. And then it extends to my legs. Like, are they in the most comfortable position they want to be? And I'm breathing through the whole thing. And that's, I don't, no one told me to do. Well, I mean, it's a lot of the work that you've taught me to do about sort of body placement and mechanics has kind of

come into play. But it feels calming. It feels calming. And then I go to, then I rock and I go to sleep. What I hear in this description is that you are reconnecting with your body. You are increasing your embodiment. Yeah. Especially for people who are doing a ton of cerebral work and are very in their heads,

this notion that like your shoulder could be hiked up. And I get this all the time. And you just think that's how you're going to be. You don't even think. You don't even realize the positioning of your. body. Well, so, and if I can just add one more thing, like the science of it is that even if you're not consciously processing tension, if your body is in a position where the joint is being held, there's noise. There is noise that is going on in your body. And you don't even have to believe that,

like, meaning it's true whether you believe it or not, right? So having that kind of tension in your body literally makes its way to your brain, to your functioning. And yeah, sometimes it'll disrupt your sleep and you'll notice that. Sometimes my arms will keep falling asleep at night and I know it's because I'm not positioning myself, right? But believe me and Jonathan when we say that even if you're not consciously aware of it, if your body is uncomfortable, even if you're pushing aside any discomfort or not even conscious of it, there is a process in your brain that is going on to work on that and it can activate your nervous system in ways that will increase your anxiety. Baa-b-bam.

I love that. And exclamation point there. I would also encourage take a moment at night before you go to bed for sure. But let's say you're on back-to-back work calls for three hours, four hours. You're just losing yourself. You're working on your computer. You're in a document. you're just like cranking mentally. Anytime you're in that very intense mental activity,

take a pause. It's a minute and just check in with yourself. Check in with your body and my shoulders. My shoulders are always up near my ears. They are. It's not normal. Check me if I'm using this. It's proprioception. Proporeception is your is your body placement in space. A little bit different. But it is similar because you're like, where is my shoulder? Yeah. It's kind of a layperson's proporeception. It's like, where am I in time? I'm in space and where am I in relation to myself. Yeah, it's a wonderful

skill to learn and hopefully we will get to continue to talk more about this. Anything else, Jonathan? My Jonathan? Instead of that, Jonathan. Ask my am anything. Yeah. Ask my anything. Lauren asks Why can drinking alcohol increase anxiety?

Okay. Good question and also relevant to this episode. That does not go missed, Jonathan. I mean a lot of reasons. you know, alcohol is a depressant, which means in terms of the neurotransmitters that it activates, they ultimately will feel depleting. And that doesn't mean it doesn't feel great in the moment and you're not having a great time because the intoxicating effects of alcohol are also real.

But the deeper, you know, impact of alcohol can also have to do with what you do when you drink. Alcohol is, releases inhibition and you often will either say or, you know, do things that maybe you wouldn't normally, you know, people who people do call it liquid courage, you know, but often that can lead to more anxiety because if you don't stay at a drunk or intoxicated level, you then have to deal with who you were before you decided to get drunk or tipsy. And what you realize is that we all have anxiety. We all have a certain amount of anxiety. And, you know, as Alcoholics Anonymous very famously teaches, the drinking's not the problem. It's the being sober that's the problem, meaning the drinking is the solution.

for a lot of people. And I'm not saying everyone's an alcoholic. That's not where I was going. But I'm using that wisdom to generalize it. That even for me, who I don't have that particular addiction, but for me, I can definitely see how I can like me better when I'm loose and uninhibited, but it's when I come back to being not loose and uninhibited that the anxiety is still. It's a rebound effect. Correct. But ultimately, alcohol is a depressant. And it is toxic, meaning the way that your body has to metabolize it is the same way that it metabolizes something that is foreign and toxic, which means it does take a certain amount of energy of your body, and as you get older, more energy, to break it down and get it out. You know, the fact that alcohol poisoning is an actual thing,

that means that your blood can become poisoned with that. And for me, I'm a person who, you know, my more recent experience with alcohol is that when I drink any amount, it literally produces an allergy, a physical allergy in me with itching and hives and things like that. that. So for me, that's an indication that it's definitely a toxin that that is very quickly recognized by my body now. We don't want that in our body, meaning I don't. Thank you for the question. If you want to ask Miami anything, you can do so at Biolikbreakdown.com. That's BIA. L-I-K. Breakdown.com. If you like what you hear, subscribe to the podcast. Even if you don't like what you hear, subscribe to the podcast. Give us a review. Love those five stars when you can.

Apparently the comments are poured over with great detail by Jonathan. Look, I'm always trying to learn how to make the show better. Or make me better. So if you have things you don't like about me, put them in the comments, and Jonathan will try and fix it. And a reminder, follow us on Instagram at Biolic Breakdown. If you like this new section we're doing, moments of peace and calm, also known as Maim realized.

I'm going to have to get her to make a jingle for it. It's our new segment. Peace and calm. There you go. Thank you, Myam, for participating. From our breakdown to the one we hope you'll never have. We'll see you next. It's my ambialics breakdown.

She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fiction. And now she's going to break.