Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Lindsey Stirling: Find Control in Creativity, Body Dysmorphia & Hair Hanging

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

Lindsey Stirling (unique, futuristic electronic violinist, songwriter and dancer with over 13M YouTube subscribers) opens up about how seeking a sense of control developed into disordered eating and how honing her dancer’s physique affected her body image. She shares how the mindset she adopted through disordered eating manifested in other areas of her life, and how going through the motions gave her her power back. Mayim and Lindsey break down body dysmorphia, the feelings of isolation and unworthiness that stem from disordered eating, and the similarities these afflictions have with substance abuse. Lindsey shares her experience on the set of Dancing with the Stars and the Cirque du Soleil stunt she has finally been able to cross off her bucket list.   Mayim examines ways to regulate emotional eating, how to identify diet culture, and what healthy eating does to the brain in the latest installment of Ask Mayim Anything.  Lindsey Stirling's YT Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyC_4jvPzLiSkJkLIkA7B8g Lindsey Stirling Tour: http://www.lindseystirling.com/tour BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You don't need to restrict in your life in order to feel like you've got control, because that's what it is. I am sure for me, control. Where do you feel like you're in control? Her hair! Look at that gorgeous head of hair. I learned how to do hair hanging. Have you ever heard of that? What?

It's an aerial art where you put your hair in this perfectly fun. No, shut up! And you put a, like, a carabiner in it, and someone hoists you... Why would you do this, Lindsay? She's like, I could lose 75% of this and still be... the envy of every woman. Your scalp would just have holes in it. Yeah, I did that with my love handles. I put carabiners on my love handles. I just thought maybe it'll just pull them right off. It's my and Bialik's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to

break down. It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down. Hi, I'm I am Bialik and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break down so you don't have to. Today we're going to break down electric violin and dancing. Today we're going to be talking to an electric violinist dancer, Lindsay Sterling. You may know her from Dancing with the Stars. She is a futuristic violin electronic musician. She's amazing. She's very, very cool. She's got great hair, and we're going to be talking with her. And I will do a few backbends. Stay tuned for that. But first, The man who bends over backwards for me all the time, Jonathan Cohen. Hello.

I'm also your dancing with the stars partner. Hello, Maim. We are back in action after a bit of a hiatus. Yeah. People listening may not have realized it's a hiatus because we kept releasing episodes. You wouldn't even know that we took a break because we just... Because we're so organized. Very organized.

That we don't want to leave people hanging. We just keep putting episodes out there. I was away for two months. This is true. I was away for two months. If you follow her on social, you know that she was in, where were you, mine? I was in Rutherford, New Jersey. And you were making, you were on a little art project?

I was on a little art project. I wrote a screenplay, my first screenplay about five years ago. And it took this long to get to make it. I directed it. I did not act in it. But Diana Agron, who some people might know from Glee and Shiva Baby and a lot of other things, She is playing the lead. Simon Helberg from The Big Bang Theory is playing her brother.

And Dustin Hoffman and Candace Bergen are playing her parents. Two actors you might have heard of. You may have heard of them. And you wrote the first draft five years ago by hand, right? Like you had like a pad of paper. Oh, I didn't even own the program that's used for scripts. I didn't know how to do that. You didn't like think about a computer and you're just sort of making notes.

I started having images in my head, which felt intrusive. Sometimes I have to go to the psychiatrist and talk about those. But instead of going to a psychiatrist, you just got a pat of paper. I started writing them down, which is kind of interesting because when we speak to Lindsay Sterling in a little bit, she talks a little bit about, you know, like artistic visions that she has. This was my first experience of literally like seeing images in a way that I wanted to tell a story. And I thought, is this what it means to want to be a writer? And then, you know, within the next year or so, I got the opportunity to lock myself in a hotel room and just live on French fries and red, wine and I was like, I am a writer. I never want to leave this room. But you tried not to be a

writer at first. You tried to find a writer to write your movie. I tried to find a writer to write my movie. Then I tried to find a director to direct my movie. And the universe told you that it was yours to write. Well, Jim Rash told me. It was my story to write. If people don't know who Jim Rash is, Google that. Google that. I used to, I went to film school and I used to think that the greatest thing in the world would be to make a movie. Then you met me and you're like, the greatest thing in the world. world is just to know her. Sure, we can go with that story.

But also, I used to think that making a movie was like the Holy Grail. Everyone who comes out of film school want to make movies. I actually wanted to be in TV because I thought you make one movie and it goes away and you're done with it, but TV, you can keep making it. You live forever. Exactly. But then at a certain point when I saw all my friends trying to make movies, I actually thought making a movie or the desire to make a movie was like a sickness.

It is. You have to be so delusional and it takes so. many things to fall in place and be right that it's like such a difficult process. But your sickness that you caught after not that long in relative movie terms, because you know, you hear of people trying to make movies for decades sometimes. Okay. And we're going to play what my am hears when you say. Okay, go ahead.

When you say that, what I hear is like, you got it handed to you. You didn't have to work for anything. You're so lucky. Didn't say that at all. I simply said... I didn't say that's what you said. I said that's what I heard. Okay.

And I'm clarifying for the objective audience. If there is an objective reality, which we can argue there isn't, my intention is not to say that it got handed to you, but that the universe expedited this process for you in some way that is miraculous. And, you know, truly profound that you didn't have to wait decades. Again, I'm not hearing good things. Are my ears broken? Like, I feel like what's it going to happen next is you're going to pick up a heavy object and throw it at me.

Not going to do that at all. And you're going to be like, you ungrateful bitch. Do you even know how hard we work? For some rich kid from TV to get this? I got to help out on the script a little bit. You helped very much. I came in at the very end. That's the best part.

I got to read a draft maybe a year and a half prior. And then you were getting much closer to making your movie, all the pieces started falling into place, and you had a script that you were going to, you know, basically polish up and get ready for production. Am I accurate so far? Yeah, we were like, we were, we had a plan of actually filming the movie,

like things were coming together, yeah. And you hadn't asked for any of my feedback on your script from the year and a half before when I read it. I only knew that you had an MFA in screenwriting like a year into our dating. Okay. So I don't know how it comes about, but you start to ask for my opinion about your script. But more so you just started complaining about the notes that you were getting from producers. Well, producers and investors.

Like, yeah. So you started getting a bunch of notes and the goal was to finalize the script for shooting. And you were feeling, correct me if I'm wrong here, you were feeling overwhelmed. I was feeling like Job in the Bible. Give people some context. I had been tested. I was deeply grieved. And so you were getting like contradictory notes.

The thing that I remember hearing a lot was like... I don't know what this means. That's what I said a lot. I don't know what this means. And I changed that in the last draft. And they are now asking me to change something that I just changed. And like you felt confused, correct? Me, being an idiot and thinking that I should just listen to the words you're saying instead of the note underneath the note.

I started trying to explain how I heard those notes. Oh, she didn't like that. So you would say, well, they told me to change this in the laugh dress and I did that. And then I would be like, oh, it's obvious to me that there's the thing that you changed caused this other problem. And then what happens? Well, hold on. Okay. When a person who is sometimes a boy starts a sentence with, I mean, it's obvious to me.

You know exactly what that sounded like. Oh, hold on. It sounded. Hold on. I never said it's obvious to me. Oh, you didn't have to because it was. was in your tone. What happened was he started mansplaining my own script to me. How could you not understand? I think people who have listened to this podcast know me pretty well at this point.

They don't know you. They know that I'm tactful. That just because I'm a man, not everything that comes out of my mouth is mansplaining. That I treat you. You're mansplaining, mansplaining. that I treat you with the highest amount of respect and fear so that I would never try to tell you anything. Because if I tell you anything that you already might know, that is the ultimate form of betrayal. I just like that you said out of respect and fear. Those are the two components of a good relationship. What are you afraid of? Tell the people.

What happens when I'm upset? You yell. I do not. You cry? Your shoulders go like this and round in and you stop looking people in the eyes. Sometimes you say I'm very mean. Look, the reason that you're able to experience the many highs and exude the amount of enthusiasm in the early days of the podcast used to get upset at me, she's like, it just doesn't sound like you're alive or can get excited. about anything and I say I keep an even tone.

You hit the high notes, but that also means that you have a lower register that if you can see your face on video, you know what I'm afraid of. Okay, let's go back to the screenwriting process. We get over the fact that I might maybe have insight into the notes that you probably do also, but are confused given your proximity to the material. He may have used the expression, piece of shit scene. You're jumping ahead in the scoring a little bit. At one point, out of frustration, I said a scene was bullshit. Again, because I'm an idiot. I was trying to explain, and not mansplain.

I was just trying to share, have transparency about how I was making decisions. For example, there are rules about screenwriting that are somewhat universal across... For people who have MFAs in screenwriting. And if you're a neuroscientist, and you had information about how the brain works and you began to explain it to me, I would think, wow, that's valuable information from someone who has spent their time learning a system and a process. You didn't feel respected is what I'm hearing. Well, I'm just saying that I wasn't arbitrarily explaining things to you.

I was trying to share information that is accepted as an approach to screenwriting. that other people believe in. It's not fairy dust. So I was trying to explain these things to you. You got very upset most of the time that I was explaining them because you thought I was mansplaining, it sounds like. And so at one point, because, you know, there's a principle where if you have two characters...

Oh, my God, he's mansplaining. I'm just going to go with it. Talking about a third character or what might happen, then there's no dramatic tension in a scene, and therefore the scene doesn't deserve to exist in the screenplay. It doesn't deserve to exist is what I hear. Anyway, I told that to my name. We almost never spoke to each other again.

It was almost the end of a lot of aspects of our relationship. But the most exciting part, we got through it, you made a tremendous draft. You also had a little bit of help from a fancy script doctor, and this is the best part of the story. At a certain point, I said to you, out of an attempt to try and lift your spirit, and give you hope and optimism for the future. I kept saying to you, these are small changes. You're almost there. This was the worst.

You're 90 to 95% of the way through the process of writing this script. You just have to tighten up, and I was trying to explain what the last 10% of writing a script is all about. I reached for the nearest butter knife with which cut his head off. Exactly. So, okay, that happened. then you get on the phone with a script doctor, she tells you all the same things that I do, but she says it in a different tone.

Yes. She's not a man, so she can't mansplain. But she says pretty much exactly what I said. Am I right or wrong? Right. At the end of this meeting, you turn to her and you ask what? If you had to name a percentage

of how much done I am, what would that percentage be? And that was the most amazing thing because right before she asked that I was about to ask the exact same question. And what did she say to you? 90 to 95%? To which point I said,

you're both effing crazy. Do you not know that when you give me six pages of things to fix, that's not 90 to 95% done? Her exact words were, you don't understand how math works. And she did all those changes. She sent the script out and what happened? I made a movie.

She got tremendous feedback on the script. She went off and made a movie, but you got to direct. I did. And what I'm curious about is if you can talk a little, you were behind the camera after decades of your life being on the other side. Yeah. You got to say things like... Action. What else do you say?

Cut. That's a wrap. What about moving on? Check the gate. Look at her face, everyone. She had such a good time. She's not sharing with us right now. No, it combined almost all of the things about me that exist.

Tell us. My desire for structure and organization. My ability to multitask, which is one of the things I'm very proud of about myself, my ability to shift focus very quickly, to find things that are beautiful and functional, to work with people experiencing human emotions, and to move people. people. But enough about me. Let's talk about Lindsay Sterling. I like to, I mean, this is just a

feature of me. I like to find, you know, bits of myself and other people, meaning I like to feel inspired by other people who do amazing things. And this is definitely someone that I'm very interested to talk to and excited about. Her debut came out in 2012. And it was called Lindsay Sterling. And she's based in Los Angeles. And she has tens of millions of followers worldwide and more than 3 billion. That's billion with a B total views on YouTube. She debuted at number two on the Billboard Top 200, number one on the dance electronic albums chart. She also holds the number one spot on the classical albums chart for 21 consecutive weeks. And she's a violinist who dances. She does them at the same time. And her videos are amazing. And she's also been very, very open about mental health challenges and about her struggle with anorexia. She most recently was the runner-up on season 25 of Dancing with the Stars. She's also been on America's Got Talent. There's some very interesting stories about that.

She also has a nonprofit called the Upside Fund, helping families in need. And I'm very excited to get to speak to this really, really cool person, Lindsay Sterling. My NBi-Lx Breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine, drink more water. There's no real data. There's no game plan. This has happened to me many, many times, especially on the perimenopause journey.

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And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention My and Biala's Breakdown to help support the show. I'm wearing a ponytail for the first time with these headphones, and I don't know how I feel about it. Oh, I love ponytail. I don't have much hair back there. You, on the other hand, have a lot of hair. I have a healthy amount, for sure.

I don't know why. I have so many questions for you that I don't think other people ask you. But one of them is, are you the kind of person who has to, like you have so much hair that like the barber has to thin it because it like gets in the way. Yes. How did you know? With you people. So I have a friend like this and she was like, oh, my hair.

I was like, it's really pretty. It's so thick. It's too thick. I was like, there's no such thing. And she starts telling me what a pain in the butt it is. They have to go to the chiropractor for the next. It's so heavy. I do.

I know. They have to like really thin it out and it's funny. They always, every time I go to get my hair done, if it's, It's a new person. Wow. Your hair. We got a thin this. Yeah, there's too much.

Too much. I've known about you for quite some time because the person who helped me start my YouTube channel, his name is Immanuel, but we call him Emu, he's mildly obsessed with you. And the reason that he's told me about you for quite some time is because he like, he tries to point out people who do things different, you know, like you don't have to be like everybody else, Maya. And you are one of the people that he's like, look. hit her. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you, Enu, so much for sharing my stuff. Yes. He's super into

having me try and feel less alone in the world by finding other people who are like unusual and different and you are that. And also, you've had a tremendous amount more success than I have. So that's like a whole lot of joy. No, but you, you have a very, very devoted and interesting and really specific following for several talents that in and of themselves are. You're very impressive, but you also put them all together. You put them all together. You're like a, just a smorgasbord of talent.

I'm like a puzzle that wasn't meant to be. I have many questions. I have questions about Mormonism. Should I tell my Mormon story first? Oh, please do. I want to hear your Mormon story. So I was married to a person for many years, and we have two children together,

and we happen to be divorced. But he was raised Mormon. And so all of his family lives in Utah. And people are like, oh, do they live in Salt Lake City? And I'm like, no, that's not Mormon enough for my in-laws. They live in other places outside of Salt Lake City. I got to go to the temple and Draper before it was dedicated, which is the way that people who are not Mormon get to actually see Mormon temples.

And it was very beautiful. I didn't know people pray before meals like that. Oh, interesting. Yeah. That was new for me. Also, I did, I'm sure maybe you get questions about this. I watched Big Love devotedly for many years. And that was a TV show.

Yeah, it was a TV show about polygamy, which is not associated or affiliated with the Mormon Church, has not been for quite some time. However, there were many elements of that show that my then husband and I would watch and really get a lot out of because the aspects of Mormon culture that are very specific to certain family, they have. had it right on. And we used to say, like, whoever was working on that show paid very close attention to Mormon life. There was always like seven kinds of potatoes on the meal. And like on the table, every meal had so many starches. We love our potatoes. You love potatoes. All of it.

All rotten potatoes. You better believe it. The last time that I ate ham and it was an accident was at a funeral meal because the whole community shows up, you know, when someone passes away in these communities. And I was like, at that time, I was vegetarian. And I was like, I can eat these cheesy potatoes. This looks great. And I bit into something that was not for me. It was ham in the potatoes. They sneak all kinds of stuff in there. So the potato becomes the full meal. That's right. Every bowl is a full meal of dairy and some pork product. You know what's funny is growing up Mormon, you know, and I still am Mormon. And the funny thing is, is I've become aware that things like the potatoes and things like that,

that were just a part of my life, that they're very Mormon things. And I was like, I had no idea. Like, you know, the facts that desserts showed up at every activity or everything. Refreshments. That's what... Exorbitant.

That's what Mike would say. He said, how many Mormons does it take, you know, to serve refreshments? Like many. It takes many Mormons to bring their freshmen. It does. Everybody brings their own. I remember, actually, I'd only been in L.A.

for like, I don't know, I'd been in LA for like probably a year, and I made someone cookies because that's just something that you do in Mormon culture is you show up with a plate of cookies. And I wanted to thank a producer for putting some extra time into my track. And I showed up with home-baked cookies. And me thinking he would just probably look at them and say, why, thank you. He was so touched that I made him, like, he's like, you made these. And I was, And I thought to myself, oh, I guess that's a very, that's not an LA thing. No, it is. Although mine just literally the other day sent around banana bread to six different people.

Well, because I'm Eastern European and the Jews of Eastern Europe and the Mormons have a lot in common. It's true. This is true. I mean, I feel very at home. When I've been in Mormon circles, these are women who craft, they cook, they sew, and also they take care of business. They know their stuff. They're well-read. These are intense women.

They're sturdy women, too. They will birth children and then bake a cake after. What's the prayer that happens before the meals? So I didn't know. So they, I mean, every family is allowed to do it differently. But in the meals that I went to, they join hands and they bow their heads. They thank God for the abundance that we're about to take in, which I say those prayers in Hebrew. we don't join hands and bow heads,

but it's, you know, there's nothing terribly dissimilar. When I toured the temple in Draper, like, there's a mikva, which is an immersion bath that's used for the baptisms, and that is based on John the Baptist, who was Jewish. And, like, that was a ritual purification that all of the holy men, thousands of years ago, did. There's a lot of things similar. Very similar to, like, the Jewish faith.

And, you know, it's funny about the dinner prayer is on my tour, and I'm talking back when I did even my very first show ever to now, I don't think there's ever a show that we haven't said a tour prayer where everybody stands around and we don't hold hands, but we all like stand and put our arms right each other. We all bow our head. Only recently, I was like, hey, let's not bow our head. Like, let's look at each other as we pray. And it's a-

That's also kind of creepy, just looking straight at one. Well, no, we're smiling and we're giggling. It's a happy prayer. It's more like a prayer slash motivational, like let's get out there and have a good time tonight. But also just because it's so ingrained in me, without even thinking about it, I always say in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. Because that's just kind of how I was taught to pray. You play violin. You also dance.

I do. And you do them both at the same time. I have learned, yes, I do. So you are a, you're skilled at both of those things. and you got to be, I mean, it was a very big deal. A lot of people first got to know you when you were on Dancing with the Stars. Yes. Where you got to, I don't want to say just dance, but it must have felt like a real relief

to only have to focus on a certain number of things at one time. You know what? It's funny. I've actually, so backing up just a second, I've been a violinist since I was six years old. I started dancing, though. And I mean like started. I'd never danced before until I was 23. That's when I decided I wanted to be a dancing violinist.

And so I thought to myself, well, I better learn to dance. And, you know, the first actual, like, real instruction I got from, like, a professional or, like, a coach was actually on dancing with the stars. And so it's funny, I felt almost naked out there without the violin because I'd never had to, like, actually dance on my own. I'd never had any instruction. I didn't know what the heck to do with my arms. So in a way, I felt so, like, exposed. I was like, oh, no, they're all going to know that I'm not actually a dancer. But it was actually such a dream come true to be on that show.

So hard. That show is very difficult. Yeah, and I think with, you know, obviously with certain, you know, kind of, I don't want to say reality shows, but certain competition shows and things like that, there's a lot that people assume, like, oh, they piece it together. But that was a very rigorous. Like, it's a rigorous undertaking. It's not just, like, show up and, like, I've seen the schedule for those things.

It really becomes, like, your full-time job for the time that you're competing. Yes, which is funny because you've, I remember you start to forget. And it didn't just happen to me, like, anyone who's in that kind of experience when you're so immersed in it, it's more than a full-time job. Like, you're with your partner eight hours a day practicing, you know, and doing interviews, getting fittings, do, like, all of it, doing the dress rehearsing. It's so intense. But you forget that you're not a professional dancer.

Like by the end, it's like, this is what I do. And it's like, wait, no, I'm a violinist that tours. Like, I'm not a ballroom dancer. But you like almost forget because you're so engrossed in it. But the thing I made the mistake of is when they told me about the schedule and how rigorous it was, I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, I know how to be busy. I got this. I had a tour at the same time.

So I was jumping back and forth. I was doing five shows a week. Meet and Greets Every Day, shows five times a week, and flying from coast to coast to compete on this show, dragging poor Mark Ballas across the country with me. Is that what you call your violin? But um... Sorry.

I should name my violin after Mark Ballas. That'd be great. He'd be honored. That was my dance partner, everybody. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I can't resist the joke. Well, hold on.

That sounds absolutely exhausting. How did you not pass out and die? You know what? I almost did it. couple times. I remember like at the end, you know, when you're so lacking sleep that you start to be, you start to feel crazy. I definitely got to that point multiple times in the show. So did Mark. It was intense. And I remember I loved the show though. It was really fun. And I remember when it was over, when I finished my last dance, I just started crying, but I think out of pure exhaustion,

but also I was like crying because I was just so grateful. I made it through the process without falling on my face and then also like, oh, it's over. It was like such a mixed emotions of like relief slash sadness, you know, I don't know, but I think I slept for a solid 24 hours. It's the only time I've ever done that in my life once it was over. So one of the things, you know, about dancing in general and, you know, I was, I was a ballerina when I was younger. I was. Really? I was a ballerina for eight years. Wow. She just retired. I did not just retire. But one of the things that was interesting is that I basically, I had time to either continue my ballet studies or try and be an actress. And I ended up choose, I mean, there were only so many hours in the public school kids day.

And so I ended up choosing to pursue acting, you know, more, well, professionally. And at that time, I had not yet hit puberty. I was a very late bloomer. And Jonathan loves when I talk about. There's things that I talk about, John. Like, she talks about her ex-husband. She talks about being a late bloomer. What else do I talk about?

Late bloomer, 67th mention. Got it? But it relates to Lindsay. Tie it in, tied in. I will tie it. You know what? I too was a late bloomer. How did you know?

There we go. We needed that. You're hired, Lindsay. No, but what I know now is that if I had continued dancing, in another few years, it would have been very clear that the body that God gave me was not a ballerina body. And there are many different body types, but you often don't know until you hit puberty. What, like, you know, are you going to be built more like your mom, more like your dad? Like, what's your fat distribution going to be like? What are your coping mechanisms going to be like? And are, you know, where is food

going to play into that, either restricting food or not restricting food or having, food behaviors that are not so much in your control. So I'm not saying like, oh, I'm grateful I picked acting because I'm curvy. But I think it's really interesting that you had this opportunity to like be a dancer in a dancer world, which for me is like something I really fantasize about because like, you know, I feel like I want to live out that dancer's dream, but I want to do it with like my body when it was 12. And I didn't, I wasn't encumbered by like being a woman, you know?

So I know you've been very open and very, very courageous about kind of body image stuff. And I wanted to know, and I know you've talked a little bit about this already, but I wanted to kind of hear your perspective on, you know, what it was like kind of getting to own your dancer's body away from your violin, right? Meaning, you know, just to say like, this is my body and these are the things that it does and this is the art, you know, that I'm now expressing. What was that like for you? Did it feel like a healthy expression of kind of where your body was at? Did you feel like it brought up challenges? Did it make you kind of revisit some of the, you know, disordered eating stuff? I'm just kind of curious in general because it just looks like such a fantasy to like have all those costumes and get to like feel so glamorous.

But it also brings up a lot about being observed and people looking at your body in a different way. Absolutely. And, you know, I feel like dancing with the stars in that way. didn't feel so different in that way from stepping on stage. Because, you know, in my shows, oftentimes I'm up there in like, you know, some kind of a spandex leotard. I said she likes short shorts. The lady likes short shorts.

Exactly. So I'm up there in some sort of a fitted something because it's a very athletic show. And I am dancing surrounded by professional dancers, girls that have danced their whole life and some of them are 10 years younger than me. You know, and so, and I've got to try to keep up with them through a 90-minute show. So it was something that part of it I was very familiar with. And I actually felt like, I don't think I've ever loved my body more than, well, I say that with a grain of salt than when I was on Dancing with the Stars, because it was amazing to see what my body could do when I pushed only my body.

You know, I didn't have, like you said, I didn't have to worry about playing the violin. And I became very strong. I became a little too thin because you work so hard and you dance all day. And I know that's a strange thing to say. No, it takes a lot of calories to counteract what you burn when you're dancing like that. Absolutely. And that was not an intentional thing. But I will say, I felt so strong.

And I did absolutely love the feeling of what my body could do when I was on that show. You know, it's interesting because, you know, as a person who is birthed humans, that's right, Jonathan. I'm going to talk about birth now. That was the other thing in my TikToktoe that I was. hoping you would get to. No, but I was going to say that there are moments in our lives when we get these opportunities, like you said, to see what happens when your body is pushed past a place that you thought it could go.

I just would like to add that she did it without drugs, which usually comes up in the mention, and there were two, both home births, one of them in the other room. You know, Lindsay, I take a lot of abuse here, and I didn't think it would be like this today. This sounds like the way my bandmates banter with me. They always say it's to keep me humble. So I don't know if Jonathan would agree with that. He keeps me very, very humble. Also red in the face, which is a bingo game that people watching on YouTube play.

Shout out to you as a woman. Happy that you felt empowered. Yay for birthing babies. Yeah. I mean, like, never mind. I have nothing else to say. Yeah, was there more to the story? No, I'm sorry.

No, no, never mind. Never mind. No, keep going. I was just a small interlude to make sure that. we covered it. I was just going to say. I was just going to say that sometimes those of us who have struggled, either with self-criticism or criticism or other people's gaze on our bodies,

sometimes get to feel empowered by, you know, exceptional circumstances. I'm happy. Can I be happy for her, Jonathan? I'm happy that Lindsay had that experience of feeling really empowered, especially in a venue where you're being so observed. And, like, people are going to, you know, take you apart and be like, oh, why does she look like this? Or, oh, she looks too thin. I mean, everybody's got something to say about women's bodies, you know, and even men's bodies now, but mostly women's.

You're either too big or too thin. No one's ever happy. Right. You know, and also a thing about dancing with the stars is those pro dancers are so attractive. Like, oh. Yeah. It's like they're, that's their job is to, you know. work out. They look amazing. They look incredible. And so standing next to them could very easily

make you be like, oh. Well, and I think that's, on a completely serious note, I think that's a good time to talk about, you know, the kind of clinical term is body dysmorphia. And you've talked about it in kind of different terms. But this notion of there are those of us, you know, what we say, you know, sometimes about people who have disordered eating, you know, is that my eyes don't work like other people's eyes. You know, my brain does not work like other people's brains when it comes to looking at my body, comparing my body to your body, to anybody's body, knowing what fits, knowing what doesn't fit, knowing what I look like in a mirror. Like, I can look with my eyes and I know what's going, like I, it's not, I cognitively understand, but the processing that goes on in,

my brain is different. It's very, very different. And, you know, it's not just like, oh, I don't think I look pretty. And people are like, you look pretty. It's not like that. It's like, I think that my shoulders are so disproportionately large that I'm amazed no one has called a physician. I'm using hyperbole to make a point, but it can be a very deep pain. And you had talked about sort of what it's like when you, you know, if you go into a social situation and your eyes are not working, right? Or your brain is not working because you are in that kind of zone. It feels like there's an experience of the universe that everybody else gets to have, that I don't get to have. And in some ways for me, you know, my struggles with eating really have to do with my perception, you know, like what I think other people

think or what I want you to see of me or what I'm afraid to show, you know, like I'm a hider, You know, I can't tell you how many costume people are like, why are you hiding so much? It's like, because that's what feels safe to me. And how am I supposed to put myself out in the world in the way that you tell me you think is okay for me? So can you speak to that a little bit? I know that's like a lot of things, but very, very curious how you kind of incorporate all these things. Yes. You know, I had some experience with definitely some body dysmorphia because I remember I was, you know, when I was anorex.

I was so imbalanced in the way I saw myself versus how other people would see me. And for me, the thing was, it was so isolating. And it felt like I just wasn't experiencing life, like at some point, because a disease like that starts to control every aspect of your life. And you walk into a room and what's the first thing you think about? Like, oh, wow, there's food. How do I avoid it? You know, you're making plans constantly or you're comparing yourself.

I had a big breakfast. That's why I'm not eating. Yes. Always thinking of excuses. Always avoiding certain conversations. Like just your entire, you know, and I remember having a few specific moments that made me very, very aware that I was missing my life. Like I was missing the experience that everybody else was having. And that was what drove me to be like, I want to change. because at some point, it's like, what have I sacrificed for this disease? And it's like, oh my gosh, I think everything, everything. And it's like at the end of the day, we're all chasing happiness. That's the original reason I think your mind starts to trick you into these places

is because we want to be happy and you think that you have to be accepted in order to be happy and you have to be beautiful in order to be accepted. And then you have to be thin in order to be beautiful. And so it's this like domino effect that you realize, yeah, the whole goal is to be happy. but all the things I've done to get there have made me absolutely miserable. And so it's like, wait, what am I chasing? And it was a huge wake-up call to even realize I was anorexic. I think so many people get trapped inside these different mindsets

without even being aware that they're stealing all this joy from themselves for a purpose. It's just kind of happening in here. And so, you know, I'm really grateful for people that didn't give up on me and kept reaching out. My mother kept reaching out and asking if I was okay. and very carefully using language. Did she bring refreshments? I would have said, get those hats.

She would have if she was there. But, you know, I think that was the biggest thing for me, was realizing I was missing my life. The biggest thing was I didn't know my sister anymore. She was my roommate in college, and I just remember having a distinctive moment by being aware that I don't have a relationship with her anymore. What happened?

Where did it go? And that was when I was like, something's really wrong and I got to figure out what's wrong. That's really eloquent. You know, the way you describe it is the way a lot of people feel when they come out of drug abuse or alcoholism, you know, and they realize like, I don't know anyone. I've lost touch with all these people. Like it's a very similar kind of disease, you know. It is a very similar. You mentioned isolation and, you know, notions of worthiness and perfectionism. You know, those kind of run the gamut. and our brain organizes them similarly, you know? And that leads me to another question. I think I don't know if I've talked about this here. So, you know, the term anorexia, you know, obviously we think about it in terms of food.

And it, you know, involves usually like restricting food and an obsession with an underconsumption of food for the express purpose of not wanting to either gain weight or, you know, a perception that you shouldn't, you know, gain weight or that you're overweight when you're maintaining, you know, a normal weight. but many people experience, I might be one of them, I don't know, and I feel like I'm not allowed to talk about my own experience because of this guy. I'm keeping track. Many people experience anorexia in different aspects of their life besides just food. And I'm wondering, oh, it looks like you may have heard about this. So for me, I'm one of the things I'm anorexic. I'm anorexic with money.

And they often say they look at the way you eat. look at the way you spend and look at the way you love. And chances are they have some very similar features. Oh, maybe she doesn't like it or she does like it. Okay. Yeah, that's so interesting that you say those three things. And I've never heard anybody actually say it like that. So that's really fascinating because I can see definitely some patterns. But I will say I have noticed in super strong ways my anorexia come back in ways that weren't food. And it's like, you know, it tried to come back in food and I'm like, I'm not going to let you trick me again. And to be honest, I'm trying to think of the different ways I've seen it come back. One of the weirdest ones was sleep. I started to super

sleep deprive myself because I just felt like the same way I was like, if that's what the normal person is supposed to eat, I'm going to cut it back. And then I'm going to cut it back more. I started to get this huge value in being exhausted and overworked. And it was kind of a combination of overworking and not sleeping enough. And I just remember when it clicked one day that I was like, I have become super, my anorexia has gone into this. And I definitely am a super frugal. Like, I can relate to the money thing for sure.

Like, I do not. I live like a college student still, you know, in so many ways. So it's something that, you know, I continuously see come up. And it's just like a pattern in my mind that I have to like talk myself through it sometimes. They're like, this is okay. You can't, you don't need to, you don't need to restrict in your life in order to feel like you've got control. Because that's what it is. I am sure for me, control.

That's so well said. I don't have to restrict in my life. In order to feel like I'm in control. In order to feel like I'm in control. That's so powerful. Where do you feel like you're in control? Her hair. Look at that gorgeous head of hair.

It takes all of her control just to keep her head up. It's like unbelievable. You guys are funny. Sorry. Look at both of our hair. Look, Jonathan, take your head off. Look, I mean, we have that. And then look, this is like, this is so much growth for me.

Like it's just some wisps sprouting out of her hair. It's like I took a cue tip and I just put a cue tip through there. Oh my gosh. Wait, you know what's something funny? Speaking of hair and my head of hair, something I did during the pandemic that was probably one of the strangest things I've ever done. Here I had some time.

I looked at my old bucket list. I learned how to do hair hanging. Have you ever heard of that? What is happening? What? It's an aerial art where you put your hair in this No, shut up. And you put a carabiner in it

and you hook up. Why? Why would you do this, Lindsay? You're so talented. This is what you needed to do? It's only people with really thick heads of hair. I would even consider that. I could lose 75% of this

and still be the envy of every woman. Your scalp would just have holes in it. I'm just trying to show off the strike and the... Yeah, I did that with my love handles. I put carabiners on my love handles. I just thought, maybe it'll just pull them right off. Were you also playing the violin

while you were spinning by your head? Yeah, so you learn to like, like literally swing. swing and spin. Like a Cirque de Soleil thing? I saw it at Cirque de Soleil. And also, what's my problem? Who goes to Cirque de Soleil and leaves saying,

I'm going to, like you're supposed to say, good for them that stays in a circus. But I left being like, I want to do that. And anyways, honestly, the place where I feel, and you know, this probably isn't the best thing, but the place where I feel the most, like, in control and comfortable is in my creativity, in my ability as a performance.

that's where I feel like I have the most specific and easy time saying that's my purpose, that's why I'm here today is to create this. And it's interesting. I always have to like kind of have this really internal moment. Whenever I get off a tour or end a huge project, I have to like self-evaluate and remind myself that like, gosh, your worth is not being on the stage. Your worth is not in the violent. Your worth is like, is infinite.

Like I am a person and that is my worth. and my beliefs I'm a child of God, you know, that is what is my worth. But I literally have to like talk myself, therapeutize myself through that process to like re-accept that every time I come off a tour or like a big something. Does feeding the area of control carry over or does it like not relate, meaning that if you really dive into the areas of control in your performance and your creativity, does then switching back into normal life just? just feel scary and out of control?

Like, what's the relationship between those two, if there is one? I have found personally that if I, like, it's so important to have a balanced life. Otherwise, it does, like, almost suck everything out of the real Lindsay. If I don't have, like, it's like my professional life becomes up here and my personal life becomes down here. And so this one does not equal that. This interview is over. Thanks, Lindsay.

Nice talking to you. That's it. That's all she said, folks. But yeah, just learning to like make sure that my relationships and everything are just as in or are more important and fill my life as much as the other stuff. It's funny because like when you think of in therapy and program terminology, this notion of like we only have control over our own lives. But you know, I think that there's this like extra notion when it's like a woman who's like in charge of her career. And it's like, are you bossy?

And it's like, no, I'm just in control of things and I make decisions. and men don't get asked those same things. So I was actually going to ask in terms of when you kind of feel in control of your creativity, like, do you have, I know it's a weird question, but like, do you just have like an instinct? Because like I see your videos, right? And like you've a very, it's a very specific kind of artistic notion. It's very, you know, the choreography and the presentation and you're, you're very theatrically gifted. You know, you have a very expressive face and you do really beautiful things.

like as a performer, is that self-driven? Are you like, this is what I want to do and I know I want to do it? Have you been supported by specific people who are like, I see, you know, your vision and I will help you see it through? Or do you feel like, like, I kind of want to know. I mean, like, people are always like, you're such a boss bitch. Like, I don't like calling it that. You're just like a human person.

So I am curious, though. Is that something that you take a lot of pride in? Like, this is my vision and I'm going to execute it? Or how does that work? Probably a combination of the two. Like I, from the time I was a little kid, I've been very much so like, I have an idea and I will make it happen somehow. You know, whether it's I want to hang by my hair and I'm going to learn how to do it by golly. Like, or, you know, I had a, I wanted to put on a neighborhood play with the kids and I wrote a play and executed it somehow, like as a child.

You know, it was terrible. But I feel like I've really been the same person since I was, you know, able to walk. And now I have built an incredible team of people I trust. Like, actually, I've done the last, like, I don't even know how many years worth of videos with pretty much the same team. But it all starts with, you know, I write the song. I think of the idea. And then I go, you know, say, this is my idea.

Let's make it happen. And to be honest, I costume a lot of the videos. I edit all of the videos myself. So were you born 34? or are you a 34-year-old toddler? I'm a 34-year-old toddler, for sure. Can we be in her next videos? Oh, I already think we're going to be in her next videos.

Absolutely. So besides being on our podcast, what else is on your bucket list? Oh, wow. What is on my bucket list? I want to write. I want to get into like some script writing and I want to write a musical. Oh. Yeah.

Do you know any particular topic? you're interested or a theme or just... I do, but I can't share it yet because I'm currently working on it. Is it Joseph Smith in the story of finding the paddlets? It's just the stories. It's a musical done by a Mormon, though. A couple anorexic tidbits.

Some people are anorexic about, in particular clothing, buying new clothing. And like, you hear this a lot in the rooms of, like, people who literally, like, will wear things until there are, like, holes. Like it's not even you know and it's something like well nobody's going to see and like I don't need it. I don't deserve it.

You know it's a lot about sort of worthiness for me and I I share about this when I do speak anorexic with beauty products. Like if I really like a scent or a lotion I won't use it because I'm afraid to use it up.

And you know it's kind of like when you think about also foods like are you the kind of person if there's like a black and white cookie, you know, it has like half vanilla, half chocolate. Do you eat the half that you love more first, or do you save it for second, you know? And I think like you could divide people into two categories. But I think, you know, for me, a lot of my disease in this sense really is about worthiness, you know. And I know that you're not a 12-step person in particular, you know, when it comes to disordered eating, but I do know that you used your faith, you know, in particular and have continued to use your strong faith. Like the notion that, you know,

what we say is like, God doesn't judge you by a number on the scale, you know. God doesn't care if I'm a, you know, a 140 or a 145 or a 138. Like those numbers, you know, those exist for human, you know, for human judgment and for human comparison, but the worth that we have as a human is, you know, determined by something greater than us. You can call it whatever you want. So I just went from holes in socks to body lotion to God. your turn, I don't know if it's impressive. But yeah, can you speak a little bit

to sort of other aspects of worthiness and where in particular kind of you've found some strength? It was really, like you brought up numbers too. That was such an interesting concept. I remember the first time I broke 100 pounds as I was trying to become healthy again and I was really fighting this battle of like,

do I lean back into this or do I, you know, I was kind of on the pivotal point and I remember the feeling of like breaking 100 pounds on the scale and just crying and at the same time thinking it was so weird that I cared so much and that number meant so much to me and like just such this like the fact that my life had been consumed by numbers on the scale calories like everything was all based upon numbers that not only is that did God not care about but also did my friends care about it no did the guy that I was trying to date but couldn't because I couldn't focus on anything else besides food.

Did he care? No. And so it just was so interesting how it was like everything I've put value in actually means nothing. And so it was such an interesting process to like search again for like what is the value. I've been taught my entire life that God loves me and that I am, you know, his child. And that's where a big part like that is where my value comes from and being a good person. And so it was really interesting to like at first forcefully make myself believe these things again, looking in the mirror and like saying things I didn't believe. And I think there is a lot of power in just going through the motion sometimes because, you know, I think it's fascinating the way the brain works. Like it doesn't believe lies. If you if you tell it a lie, it just like throws it away. But if you

tell it something enough through repetition, it starts to register that, oh, I guess that's not a lie and it will put it to a different part of the brain and that's when you can start to believe these things. So there was so much power that came from me from telling myself these things of worthiness over and over again, even though the first part, I didn't believe him at all, but eventually they started to register as possibly they're true. And then it became, they are true. So it was a really, like I was a part-time jobber in, that's not a word, but, you know, it literally came a part-time job to a. work on mental health. I've spent so much time on it. Yeah, it was a process. Where'd you go on your mission?

Oh, I went to New York City. You did not. I know. Lucky little devil right here. What? I felt so excited. I was like, I can't believe. I actually am going. That's where you went. That's where I went. What beat did you walk? What beat did I want? Yeah. Sorry, that's like a, that's an old police term, see? Where was your region in New York City? Like, it's, it's, It's a very large city. No, I know, but like, did you have one particular area? Did you just go to Hell's Kitchen and see what would happen? I spent actually quite a bit.

I spent, I think, six months in Hell's Kitchen, which is funny. Got sent to Hell's Kitchen on my mission. That's right. I was in upstate for just a little bit. I was on the Upper East Side for a moment. I was all over in Manhattan. Upper East Side is where a lot of Jews live, which is what I'm laughing about. I met many of them.

For those people who don't understand what a mission is, give us like the brief overview. You go out and you share your testimony with people 100% of the time and serve. That's your mission. Yeah, so this is for just to kind of flesh this out. So for traditional, for traditional Mormons, males and females alike are encouraged to take, is it two years? It's two. I'm not sure why, but it's two years for the guys. We the girls get away with a year and a half.

That's because you got to go back. and get ready to get married is usually what, yeah, you gotta be ready for the babies. And you take, you take this time in your life to proselytize. I mean, it's, you know, it's a, which you're typically don't proselytize to Jewish people. We were always told that if there's a muzzazzan on a door, that Mormon missionaries are often told to leave those houses be. Is that true? Is that the message you got or do you like target them extra because they need help? Oh, yeah, we was like, they need to be saved.

No, I'm just kidding. No, but many Mormons consider themselves kind of the, there's a lost tribe element of a different kind of relationship with Jews. But anyway, so she's sent out, and you're often sent anywhere in the world. Yeah, you don't get to choose. And you just show up, you knock on a door, and you start talking. It's a little more organized than that. You definitely have like, you're given a companion, again, some person that you've never met before that you don't choose. Wait, were you allowed to take your violin?

I got special permission You did not So usually you're not supposed to be distracted In your year like There's very specific rules about like How often you can call home Because like you're supposed to be very focused Like it's a very specific thing

They let you take your violin Let me take my violin Which was pretty I was pretty excited about I didn't think they would And I asked for permission And they said yes That's amazing But you couldn't like play it

As you were prophylitizing That's not my honor Actually I did sometimes Sometimes I would just play it all the streets and my companion would talk to people. I mean, got to get creative. Yeah, well, that's the thing. If you're going to try to engage people, you might as well entertain them a little bit, too. Might as well play them a little ditty on the fiddle. So the Mormon gentleman typically wear short-sleeved collared shirts and trousers, and they wear a little name tag and usually a tie

and often they're on bikes. What are the ladies wear for their missions? You know what? It has changed a lot since I went. You know, I remember I actually cried when I got the packet of what I was supposed to wear because it was like you're supposed to wear panty hose all the way up you're supposed to wear like a suit coat i was like i'm gonna look like a grandma out there but and sure enough i did look like a grandma it's okay fine did it now they look so cute they just wear kind of your typical what you'd expect someone to wear on a sunday you know right just a skirt and a top clothes right yeah sometimes they get to wear pants now it's like dang it i went at the wrong time well okay so that that does lead to another question that I had, because another thing that, you know, that Mormons and Jews

do have in common, or traditional Mormons and traditional Jews, is a certain level of modesty surrounding dress. And it is true that there are specific guidelines for traditional Mormon men and women, but, you know, for the women, we kind of tend to get more attention around that. And those kind of, I don't want to say restrictions, but those guidelines do tend to govern certain parts of your body that traditional women do keep covered. And this is completely not like to put you on the spot, but I am curious, and again, not from a judgmental perspective, but is this something that has come into, you know, into your life or your consciousness in terms of, you know, limitations about hemlines and about which parts of you, you know, are shown and which aren't? And I know not every

Mormon's the same. Like, you know, usually like no caffeine and that includes no soda. But like some, everything's changing and I'm trying to be modern. Do you see me trying to be modern? I love how accepting and broad is being so open. No, that's a very good question. One that I really haven't been asked before. Most of these questions actually I haven't been asked for. So this is fun.

But, okay, so that question is interesting because I've had to continuously, it's been a huge part of the choices I've made as an artist. Like what you wear comes up so much as an entertainer. or someone who's on any sort of platform always, like you're getting styled by people and always trying to explain like, hey, that hemline needs to be lower. Oh, hey, oh, you know, just always,

it's amazing how many times it's come up. And not only from the Mormon community, but from the Christian community as a whole, I have quite a few that follow me. And it's interesting to see the judgment that can sometimes come from that if you make a choice. From people of God being judgmental? Isn't that interesting? I know. It's a very sad thing to me because I'm like the whole message that we all teach is that like, you know, for Christians or Mormons, it's that Jesus Christ, we want to live like he did. And how did he live? He accepted all, you know. And so it's interesting that sometimes he worked miracles. He was very, very busy.

It was a very nice, busy man. But so yeah, it's been interesting to see how I've had to weigh that. And I still get questions to this day. Because I will say, especially my stage performance costumes. When I first started performing, I was like, the guidelines that I've been told to wear are the guidelines I'm going to wear on stage. Since then, I have become a much more proficient dancer and I do different things on stage. So now I've decided, you know, in the years past that have gone,

that I would treat myself as a dancer on stage. I still try to be respectful of my body and be modest, but also being aware that I'm going to be doing high kicks and I'm in 110 degree weather sometimes outside doing these. So it's interesting to see how some people may feel like I've completely abandoned my standards. However, you know, I think that I'm very grateful for these kind of situations I've been put in because it's made me all the more just realize so strongly that it's not about what you wear. Like, it's never about what you say.

It's about your heart and it's about how you live. And, like, I feel like I'm in a really good place with God. And it's made me a much less judgmental person to be put in these situations and just kind of realize that we're all just doing the best we can. And it's been interesting to kind of balance that as I've grown in my career, but as I still do try to stay true to these things. I love that. Thank you for speaking to that. I know it can be an uncomfortable question, and it's something I think about a lot, you know, as a person who tends to dress specifically according to, you know, certain guidelines of modesty. You know, your hands are very, very important.

Like, I mean, that's like, that's like what you, are there certain activities that you don't do because they might hurt your hell? Okay, so tell me, like, how is your life different because, like, you have, like, golden hands? Like, we have to be so careful. Like, I see that you don't have, like, a manicure. I mean, I play piano and when my nails get long, like, it's just I have to trim him down, you know, and my older son is a violinist. And so, like, we have to keep his nails a certain length for that. So, like, I just have so much, like, do you use special lotion? Do you, are you not allowed to, like, go zip lining? Like, can you, can you go to pottery classes. Like, what are you, I'm curious. Do you tuck your hands at night and wrap them up in little gloves? But they can't be too soft. They have to be very strong and calloused. I want to know the special things you, like, how is your life different? because you have to protect your hands. You know, there's just a lot of things that, I mean, probably nothing that's super surprising.

The manicure thing is funny, because sometimes I do like to go get my nails done, and it's always funny. I go in with the shortest little tiny nails, and I love French tips. And so I'll ask for French tips, and they're always like, oh, fake nails. And I'm like, no, no, on these.

And like half the nail is a white line. Right. Anyways, and yeah, I always have to like talk them in to giving me a French tip on my nails. But I honestly, it's so funny. I remember my very first tour trying to talk my tour manager into letting me go roller skating because there's a roller skating rink. And he was like, absolutely not. And so there's just a lot of things like adventurous sports.

I'm kind of like a thrill-seeking personality, but yet I've never been snowboarding. I've never been skiing. I'm always so afraid I'm going to break my wrist. So there's a lot of really cool things that I've just never done. Well, that's very interesting. And very sad. I'm just kidding. Horseback riding?

I actually do go horseback riding because I grew up around horses. But they give you like a 90-year-old horse. They gave me the old one named Chad to ride. I get Chad every time. What would you like people to know about where to find you, where to look you up, where to listen, where to watch. You know, nowadays, everybody's on everything, but I would say if you were going to take one chance to give me a chance, I would say go to my YouTube channel.

Like, just search Lindsay Sterling on YouTube and... And it's Sterling with two eyes, correct? Yes, S-T-I-R, like you're stirring something. Her videos are amazing. Her videos are amazing. You can find it on YouTube. They're viewed millions and billions of times. They will make you cry and feel very deep things.

It's very, they're very emotional, very emotional. I mean, very emotionally heavy, intense in a good way. Yeah. A few giggles in there, too. Oh, yeah. Yeah, lots of epic sceneries and scenarios. Awesome. Really, really.

It's really lovely to speak to you. And thank you for sharing about your journey. And I'm very jealous of your hair. And that will continue to be true. And watch, I'm going to do a back band like you do. Whoa! Oh, this was so fun. I just want to come hang out.

You guys are just a joy to talk to you. We are a joy to be around as well. That's true. We are. Very entertaining. Thank you so much, Lindsay. All right, thanks. Look, I'm doing a back bend like she does.

See my leg? See what it does? You really are a ballerina. I used to be. Quit all this acting nonsense and let's go back to your roots. It's her signature move that backbend. It's very impressive. What's your signature?

move. Sleeping. Sleeping and crying. Well, she said she slept for 24 hours. And I'm like, you do that once a week. You're never been on Dancing with the Stars. It's called Shabbas, Jonathan. It's called Shabbas.

What happened this past Saturday? I was asked to be on Dancing with the Stars more than once. No. A million. You think they haven't asked me. I was going to start your online petition. Maybe you've never seen Blossom. I was a dancer.

I was about to start an online petition to try to get you on Dancing with the Stars. What do you think would happen? if I tried to do dancing with the stars. Right now? Not right now. Like this afternoon if you started training? You know me. What would that be?

What would that? Name five things that would happen if I did dancing with the stars. Five things. Number one, you would hate all the outfits. Okay. Number two, you would tell everyone that the dance moves are not historically accurate to where they, what they used to be. Okay. You would try to replace your dance partner.

I don't know the other two. I would cry a lot. Oh, yeah, of course. That goes without saying, but that's not necessarily unique to dancing with the stars. That's just for everything. Okay, name one more. You go. I don't know.

I would have a terrible time, but then really love it. Oh, yeah, that's true also for everything. You would tell me that no one is going to watch your episodes and that it will be the lowest ratings of any season ever and that people would vote you all. off immediately, but then you would make it to the finals. But then I'd lose and I'd cry. You would lose in the finals for sure, and you would say that you only made it that far for pity votes. Anyway, she's an amazing person.

Who's like, I want to... Your dance partner would be the Torah. Okay, enough with all the shitty things that would happen if I was on dancing with this time. That was a good one. Dance partner would be the Torah. I would dance with God. God is my dance partner.

Who's that person who's just like, I want to play violin and dance. I'm going to play violin and dance. Her videos are very impressive. Very beautiful. She has a beautiful vision. I mean, she has like a, she's like a magical realism. She's like, you know, she can like picture anything pretty and like, I'm going to make that happen.

Oh, great. Also, I don't know enough about musical history and all the contemporary artists that are out there, but it feels like she's like, you know, chose a new sound. I am not a musical historian, but there are people in musical history who have been real, like, genre changers, you know, or who have introduced. a type of music that we otherwise wouldn't have access to. And I'm not comparing her to Freddie Mercury and Queen. But I'm saying like Queen brought kind of like, you know, a theatrical kind of operatic aspect, right, to like the music world.

Like Bobby McFerrin, right? Like people like, yo-yo Ma. You know, people who literally took a genre that no one had ever heard of, Yanni. No. Kenny G. Are you just listing people now? I'm listing people that have specific genres of music that you other... Like, she's the lady who plays electrical violin.

The chasing happiness little soundbite, which we're going to extract. I had so many questions about that. Tell me your questions. I'll answer them for you. I mean, it's a separate conversation, but like, I mean, I don't mean to get all metaphysical. What is happiness? I mean, I think it's a... state in absence of some form of struggle or suffering versus some form of ecstasy.

But you could be neutral. Yeah, you could be neutral. I spend, you know, I spend a lot of my life and time or I have spent a lot of my life and time not experiencing like happy, but not being depressed. I mean, there's a lot in between. So I guess I'm wondering like. I mean, the goal is for a generally contented life. Okay.

So contentment is different than happiness, though, right? Happiness does indicate some sort of elevated experience, which I would say most people even are doing the searching. And while they may be seeking happiness, they may be seeking a rush, absolutely. They're also seeking the absence of suffering. Dennis Prager wrote a book, I believe, called Happiness is a serious problem. And he argues that, you know, we kind of have like also people like, Dennis Prager, I just, I used to listen to him on the radio. It doesn't mean that I listen to everything he says. or agree with everything he says.

But he had this notion that, like, you know, it's a Western kind of fixation on this concept of like happiness, right? Like, sure, my grandparents, I'm sure we're very miserable in their lives, but also the notion of like, I need to find the perfect partner who I'm going to grow with and be so happy with. Like, that wasn't part of the consciousness of pretty much all of human history for tens of thousands of years. Like, all of evolution, nobody was like, but I really want to be happy.

I mean, there's the pleasure principle, you know, which Freud talks about. Again, I don't agree with everything. You have to say this about everybody. I don't agree with everything Freud says. I'm not saying that Freud was right. But this notion that we seek out things that bring pleasure and we avoid things that bring us pain. You know, that's, there's a physiological and evolutionary, you know, kind of aspect to that. I know that happiness isn't a number.

I know that happiness isn't, I want, you know, name an amount of money, right, where you think, well, I'll be happy if I have that. Well, actually, there's been, there have been studies. where they ask people what amount of money is required for them to be happy. Right. And no matter how much money someone has, it's usually 50 to 75% more than they have. And even the millionaires and people who with tens of millions, they all need more. So what's that, you know? When I feel safe, I do sometimes feel happy, you know, and I feel secure.

And I could, it's not just money-wise, like in a relationship or, you know, I know, I know what joy is. Like, when we laugh, like, that's, I feel really happy. Yeah, when I make you, like, keel over in your chair, that's like a win. Right, but I also don't anticipate that that's my existence either as a human or as your partner, right? Like, life is not all about that. It's about everything. It's about, like, holding someone through the hard times in their life. Like, what is it to be? I don't mean to get all, like, deep. But it's like, what is, like, the word? Holding someone through the hard time, sure. but if we could have more of the keeling over in our chairs laughing and barely able to breathe, like that would be preferable.

Right. So then that's why people do drugs all the time? Yeah, exactly. But Dan Harris, who we're going to get on at some point, wrote the 10% happier, has the podcast 10% happier. But his philosophy is like, you know, you can do all these things, but generally you can only really get 10% better than your current basis. Oh, that's depressing.

Well, this also goes into your... Wait, now you just made me up. unhappy telling me that. You know, in the Glennon Doyle episode, call back to that one, if you haven't heard it, we talk about how the job of marketers is to give you problems in order for them to solve them, and that most products are the solution to a problem that you didn't necessarily have before. Okay, so capitalism is not happiness. Unless you're the person in charge, making all the money at the expense of the workers.

Okay, this just got really depressing. Okay, but let's go back to the restricting for a second. because the notion about restricting that you talk about in which I totally understand, in some ways, having an experience of restricting for a certain period of time can help you identify what happiness is. Meaning, by peeling back all the... You don't know what you've got till it's gone. Well, for example, I lived in an oshroom for a little bit.

Why does that make you roll your eyes? Starting my own little checklist. That's number two. by the way, if you're keeping score at home. You're talking about when you simplify your life. When you peel back, you're like, well, I used to think that I needed this thing and that was my goal. It was a job like this. Okay, but that's a house like that.

That's not the kind of restricting we're talking about, though. Well, it. That's, that's modulating and living in moderation. It's decided that you're not, you don't want new clothes at this rate. No, but that's, that is different than the notion of restriction, you know. How so? The notion, I mean, I'm speaking as a. person like from a kind of a eating disorder perspective when we talk about restricting, it's self-abnegation

out of a lack of worth and self-love. And what results is insanity and a lack of serenity. So I'm not- It's a different journey. I'm not talking about it at that level. Right. But I am talking about the pairing back of modern day life to the point where you're like, what can I really live with as the very basic level? You know what? My religious practice includes that. And we do it specifically on Yom Kippur. And it is a day on which you practice self-abnegation. You say, what if I take away everything luxurious? I don't wear leather.

I don't anoint myself. I don't shower. I don't perfume myself. I don't eat. What if I even don't drink? What's left over? And grief is also very similar, you know? Like when you take things away.

And the fact is, you know, for me as a person who is very attracted to that, that's where having an eating disorder that is so focused on a compulsive restriction mentality is so disempowering, you know, because it's not the kind of restriction. I'm so good at restricting, right? But you also get that in a lot of anorexia. It's like, watch me be the best anorexic. I'm going to perfect this, you know, I'm going to go longer than you without eating. Ask my anything.

Yeah. Speaking of restricting, you should not restrict yourself in sending in questions. asking Miami anything you want. Jonathan, what's the Ask Miami Anything of the day? The Ask Miami Anything comes from Bellin v. It's a tough one. Can you talk about emotional eating? And if it just stopped there, I think you'd be okay.

But it keeps going and it says, what has been shown to work to help regulate emotional eating, how to identify diet culture, and what healthy eating is and does to our brains? Holy moly. emotional eating or stress eating is generally thought of as the concept of eating comfort foods when you're stressed out. I mean, that's sort of a general term. And when we talk about being an emotional eater, you know, you talk about eating your feelings.

If you don't know what that means, you're probably not an emotional eater. But if you are on a journey of trying to figure out why it sometimes feels like you can't stop eating even though you want to, chances are there's some emotion. under there. For many people, the desire to eat comes when they have an emotion that they don't know how to process. I've noticed that for me, exhaustion leads me to feel like I need to eat. And that's, you know, for me, there's cross signals sometimes. You know, the kind of notion, which is, you know, very much kind of pushed in our sitcoms and our movies of like upset women eating ice cream. Like that's actually, you know, that is something that we sometimes are drawn to do, not women, but people when we're upset, we'll grab something that feels good. Now, the reason that

feels good is that our brains are wired to want to feel better when we don't feel good and feeling disregulated, having emotions that are, forget about unpleasant, emotions that we don't know how to process, even positive emotions can make our brains. feel like they need comfort. And foods that are high in fat and high in sugar, those kind of really carbly fried kind of things, those do kind of signal a cascade of comfort that our brains have an endogenous ability to produce because we have to have the ability to make ourselves feel better. And food is, you know, one of those ways. Some people have better control over this than others. And many people just kind of use different things.

You know, the person who wants to smoke a joint when they don't feel good about something that happened, the person that wants to, you know, hit a bar or open up the liquor cabinet when they get rough news. Some of that, sure, can be normal or, you know, something that people do in moderation. But often, as it is with eating, that's really just something to kind of numb the feelings. You don't have to experience your actual feelings. And food is a drug. Food is a drug. I could talk forever about diet culture.

I'm more and more confused as the days go on and as the years go on about how we're supposed to think about food and eating. You know, I grew up in the years of like Pridikin diets and macro diets. And then, you know, when people started getting diagnosed with cancer with more frequency, so many people talked about, you know, special diets for that. Then there was like a whole wheat, fat-free phase. And then they were like, oh, all these foods cause anal leakage. I guess we shouldn't need those. It's true story. I mean, I've seen, I'm old enough that I've seen a million trends.

And ultimately, what seems to still persist is that there's one body type that's generally considered acceptable. I mean, I think it's shifting. You know, there's women who are, you know, who are really making lives and careers out of not changing the way their bodies are. Amy Schumer's one that comes to mind. Her movie, I Feel Pretty, which is not a perfect movie, is one of my favorite example. is one of my favorite examples of the exploration of how we see ourselves, especially as women in this culture. But, you know, for me, limiting my time on social media is very, very helpful for me, especially when I'm struggling. I don't understand how people take pictures that make their bodies look the way they do, and I don't want to learn and therefore just, you know, hate most of the images I see of myself because I don't want to spend the time to figure out how to make my thighs look skinnier and all those things.

Anyway, you know, diet culture is, it's very, very pervasive. And, you know, this next level is like, well, you can't skinny shame people and I don't want to skinny shame people. But like, that's a thing now. We went from fat shaming to skinny shaming. I don't know. I think everybody should just turn everything off and take a nap. On that note, if you want to ask Maim something, you can go to Biolik breakdown.com. That's BIA, L-AK.

Breakdown.com. Also, you can ask Maim anything at Ask Myem anything. I'm at Bialikbreakdown.com. That is an email address. And send us an email. Attach a video. We like those. And you can be featured on the show.

Attach a video of you asking me anything. Don't just attach any video. Oh, yeah. We don't want any videos. We don't need videos of your pets or your partner's napping. Although that is Myam's favorite activity is a good nap. Thank you, everyone who has subscribed to the podcast. It helps us make more.

Once I took a nap on FaceTime and he watched me. I can. neither confirm or deny that. But my mom does nap a lot. I woke up and fuck. It felt rude to hang up on you. We didn't say goodbye. I just fell asleep.

It was my stimulating conversation that put her right to bed. It was that Canadian drone. Actually, she'll nap when I'm on calls and my voice just literally puts her to sleep. It's like Canada. I'm going to start my own series of meditations, which is just me talking about things

and it will just put you to sleep. If you have sleep problems, email me at Ask Myem at Bialikbreakdown.com. Jonathan's going to put you to sleep by reading all the provinces of Canada today. Subscribe on Mime's YouTube channel. Click the little bell notification. Subscribe on audio everywhere you can find podcasts, literally everywhere. And check out Mime social channel, Miss Miam on Instagram. And if you want to find me, where am I in?

You're at... Where are you? Go to Bialik Breakdown. on the episode pages, you can find us, and we will see you next time. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's my and B.R. X breakdown. She's going to break it down for you.

She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One, fix you one. And now she's going to break down.