Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Macy Gray: Listen to the Angels

Episode Date: May 17, 2022

Macy Gray (singer, songwriter, activist) opens up about her creative approach to songwriting, her bipolar diagnosis, and why the issue of police violence is so close to her heart. She discusses her musical influences, being made fun of for her unique voice as a kid, and the origins of her hit single "I Try." Macy explains the process of making a new album during the pandemic and civil unrest, the data behind police shootings, and her anxiety around mania. Mayim breaks down the differences between bipolar I and bipolar II disorders, features of mania, and why romantic relationships are tipping points for those suffering from bipolar disorder. Macy Gray's new single, "Every Night": https://open.spotify.com/track/4VAUxogl12wnQQHvQ3zVuD?si=71809e5792de4741&nd=1 Macy Gray's organization, My Good: https://mygood.org/ BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The mannics, that's my biggest fear is being manic because I don't know what I'll do. Right. I don't know why. Like people say, oh, he's out of control, but I don't know if people really know what that feels like. Hi, I'm I'm Biolic and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break things down. So you don't have to. It's Myambialic's breakdown.

She's going to break it down for you because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. We try to break things down. We're having Macy Gray on today. That's the woman who wrote the song I Try. Try to say goodbye and I choke. Try to walk away and I stumble. Though I try to hide it, it's clear.

My world. Jonathan Cohen. Crumbles when you are not near. Thank you, Jonathan. We're having Macy Gray on today. It's very exciting. I may appear to be free, but I'm just a prisoner of your love. You may seem all right and smile when I leave.

But what are your smiles? They're just a front. Just a front. Macy Gray is obviously a phenomenal singer and songwriter. She's also an activist. She is no stranger to saying what needs to be said and acting on her words. She won the Grammy for. best pop vocal performance in

2004, I Try. She's also received two Brit awards. She has a new album called The Reset, which is coming out, summer 2022. And she also has been in a ton of movies, like really cool cameos and bits

here and there. She's also has a very distinctive style, an exceptional voice, and we're going to specifically speak to her about her voice and the way that she uses it, both literally and figuratively. Jonathan Deween talk about anything before we introduce Macy Gray to the breakdown? Macy was on the move, so the audio quality is a little bit different than you're used to,

but the content was amazing, so really interesting. Scott says it's one of his favorite episodes that he has witnessed. I mean, anytime we get into the supernatural, I'm into it, and we get a little shout out to her creative approach. Yeah. I hope you'll stick around. Let's welcome Macy Gray to the breakdown. We are very, very happy to have you here. I'm a very big fan of yours. Thank you. There's so many things

about you that a lot of people don't know. I didn't know you had kids, for example, and I'm very interested. How old are your kids? Was she 27 or age? 27, 25, 24, I think. You don't look old enough to have grown children. I am. Well, you know, it can happen really early, you know, if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Tell us a little bit about, where you grew up and what some of your kind of early musical influences were. I grew in Kent, Ohio, and Ohio's very Midwest. That is the epitome of the Midwest. So there was a lot of, well, I'm telling how old I am.

When I was coming up, they had, so they only played black music at night. They only, you can only hear black music like after, I think it was 10 o'clock, and then all the rest of the day it was like Elvis and, you know, Beatles and all those and whoever was out at the time. So me and my family used to stay up late. I remember my mom used to stay up late. So that's kind of, that's why I, like, I'm up until 4 in the morning now, and I realized why that's why I was exposed early at all kinds

because, you know, my mom, she was a huge Elvis fan. We always listened to that. And my dad was a big James Brown fan. So I had, you know, all sides of the spectrum, you know. Was singing your thing? Did you also play an instrument? I played piano. know they made me take piano lessons.

I started when I was seven, and then I had to practice every day for at least a half an hour. I remember that. But I didn't really, you know, but because they made me practice, I hated music, you know? So, I mean, I hated play.

I hated playing piano, but that's one thing, you know, no matter how much you hate something, if you learn it, you learn it, like you know something. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think that was kind of the beginning

of it kind of being, like, set into my brain, all into it until I went to college. I went to USC and I joined the band there when I was about 20. That's really when I started. It's a late bloomer. You have a very distinctive voice. Was that always your singing voice?

Or is that something that also developed with time? No, this was always my voice. Unfortunately. But it's changed a little, you know, since I've gotten a little bit older, you know, booze and other things, you know, affect your voice. So it's a little deeper than it used to be, but it's still kind of the same. Do you have siblings? I do.

I have a brother and a sister and then, you know, this same old as everybody. My dad has two other kids, blah, blah, blah. Got it. But I grew up with my brother and my sister. And were they musical as well? No. No. My dad learned how to play the guitar in the Army, and he would just play around sometimes.

but the only real access I had to, like, learning to play was my little piano lessons with my 90-year-old teacher. I had one of those. Her name was Mrs. Chapel. Yep. You know what I'm talking about. She had big hair, though. Her hair was always, like, all swooped up and fancy. Oh, yeah, I had this. Oh, I swear she was at least 80, and she was so boring and I hated it all over that.

I taught piano for a little bit when I was in college and grader. school and I think kids must have thought I was 82 and I was like 35 30. So you actually, you didn't study music at USC. You studied writing. Is that correct? Yes. Yes. So did you picture yourself as like you were going to have a writing career? Was that something that you sort of were passionate about? And then, oh, by the way, you're this incredible musician. No, I, yeah, I was kind of knack for writing. That was kind of natural. Like, even in college, I used to do people's term papers

and stuff from learning. And even in high school, for some reason, I was always, like, a natural, I could put words together. So I got into school. I only applied to, so at that time, they had, like, now I'm sure there's a ton of writing career, but there was, like,

I only wanted to go to school in California because I would see it on TV and it looks so cool. So I only applied to schools in California. And in California at the time, USC, Stanford, and I forget the other school. I think it was like UC Irvine. They all had writing programs. So I only applied to all those.

And I got in the USC and I got into Stanford. And I went to USC because that was in L.A. And my favorite show at the time was, who was that show with Suzanne Somerfield, 3-something? Three's company? I mean, you probably probably. company. You expected.

California. I was like, I'm going to vote to USC then. Did you expect for there always to be like sexual misunderstandings

because that's all that happened on that show? All I think is that was a beach. There was no beaches in Ohio. Right. Well, so I was going to say USC and Stanford are two very, very, like those are very fancy

California schools, meaning those are private schools. Like I went to UCLA, which, you know, a fine public. University across town from USC. But were you, you must have been quite a student. Like those are very fancy schools.

Those are hard schools to get into. Yeah, I was good. My mom was a teacher. So she was really, really all me about my grades. And, you know, in a town like that, she knew all my teachers. Yeah. So I couldn't really do anything. You'd be like, I'm telling your mom.

I couldn't get away with anything. So, and plus I knew that was my ticket out of Ohio. So I got, I got rid of a good way. It was very, very competitive to get into those schools. Yeah. Still is, I think, right? Oh, for sure, for sure. So there's something that I read about in your bio,

and I know you were shy when you were a little one. Oh, yeah, so my voice was very squeaky, you know? You know, like when your voice flips and you get mature, and I never did. So I was really shy as big, because every time I would say something, everybody would start cracking up, but they mock me. They still mock me, but now, you know, I can handle it a little bit. But everybody had an impression of me, so I kind of stopped talking. Like, I was really self-conscious about speaking.

Huh. And what, I mean, what was that like? Did that manifest in school? Like, did people pick up on it? Was it something your parents had to get on you about? No, but my mother talks non-stop. So I think she enjoyed the fact that I didn't talk. She could have all my space where I should be talking.

But no, I. I just getting shy. But yeah, that's one thing, you know, when you keep things to yourself, they have to come out somewhere. So I think, you know, that made me kind of like really get into other stuff. Mm-hmm. You know, lucky it was good stuff, you know. Miami-B Alex's breakdown is supported by Superpower.

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Superpower. Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just $199, but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional $20 off with the code break. Head to superpower.com. Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention my ambiolics breakdown to help support the show. I'm very curious. You are very well known for this song, which, as I told Jonathan, I've been singing for the last 36 hours in my head over and over. And so your song, your album that it is on came out in 99. Is that right? Yes, 99.

And you, you won the Grammy for Best Pop Vocal Performance in 2000. Jonathan, how many times has that been viewed on the internet? I did a little research just to remind myself of that video, and it has over 63 million views, which is just like unbelievable. So. Yeah, I mean, that's... In some circles. So when let's just, I'm just going to go back in time a little bit.

I'm a little bit older than Jonathan. When that song came out, I was in college. I was, how old was I? Let's do the math. Well, I was born in 75. So, you know, when that song came out, I was in college. And we, the American and global public, had not heard a voice like yours. Obviously, there are other incredible female voices that are very memorable and that have

stood out in musical history. But there's a very, very specific sound that you had and created. Do you write all your stuff? Do you write by yourself? Are there other people that write with you? No, I write all my lyrics. Actually, I haven't read. On that album that you're talking about,

like my first three albums I wrote all my lyrics. And some songs I wrote, like I wrote Caligula by myself. Uh-huh. I wrote, I try on the piano, but my band at the time, they wrote The Bridge. Got it. Here is my confession. Yeah.

And I'll be your opposite. And I need your touch. Love you say, say, say. Sorry. I wrote some things, but I didn't, they wrote the changes. Okay, so this might be a dumb question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. When you write that song, like, when you're just fiddling around and you're like, I'm going about my life, is there like a special feeling you get that's like, this?

This song is going to, this is a significant single. This is a song that's going to do things that might change this album. Do you have that feeling or it's just like, all right, I wrote this song, there's that song. No, you know what? At the time, I wrote it. I was married at the time. I was with my ex-husband. And I'll never forget, we're in this little townhouse, three months behind on the way.

And I'm sitting down and we had, but we had like a, you know, townhouse is. they have two floors, three floors, whatever. So I'm down in the living room because we have been arguing our week. And he's upstairs in the bedroom, watching the Knicks. He's from Harlem. That's a man after my own heart. And it was a championship.

And I'm downstairs and I'm ready. I try and it's all about him. I couldn't wait until, you know, go sing it to him and show him how I really felt. And I go up and I sang to him. And he goes, I'm watching the game. So I never thought that song was a big deal. Was that the moment you knew you were getting a divorce?

Yeah, so even to this day, I still, I was like, why is that song such a big deal? But I think because I had that moment with him, it kind of changed. I mean, I wouldn't have known if it was a hit back then. Okay, well, I guess that's what I'm wondering. Like, you know, for me, I'm an actor person, you know, so like, if I have to do a scene, like, I don't know, they make you do a bunch of takes and, like, they'll piece it together. but I feel like if I could write like you wrote that song, I'd be like, this is going to win a Grammy, people. This is it, yo.

I just wrote a song that's going to be watched millions and millions of times. No, I didn't think that at all. I wasn't even signed. I wasn't even thinking about stuff like that. Wow. And what was that writing process like for you? Did it all just like flow out of you? or was it tinkered and like little bits and pieces came over time?

No, that was that. I had just learned a little bit of the guitar. And so I try as DAE and those are the only chords I knew. So I was just singing DAE. You know, songs just come to you. I don't know. Like I do know people that like get up and they make it a job. They get up like 10 and they write to 5.

You know, that's their process. Everybody has their own way that they could say. But I was just messing around. So you're just messing around. These lyrics, which are iconic lyrics, they're burned into like millions and millions of people's memories. They just flow out of you, which is just a phenomenal thing to think about.

Do you think that like you're accessing some other worldly force? Like where do you think that comes from? It just float, like to have that stuff flow out of you like that? I don't know. It's like getting the lottery. You know, like, you know, there's angels and God and all that stuff. And they just, you know, they throw stuff at you. Hold on one second. Macy great.

He's smart enough to be there. You can just say there's angels and God and they throw stuff at it. And this is Jesus. Okay. Okay. So I, Jonathan, go ahead. Go ahead. I want to flow.

I want to go on this a little bit. So there's angels and gods, which I believe in, and you said that you sort of just have to be there to catch it. Do you think that it's a skill to catch it? Like, you're good at listening and sort of going into that quiet space to listen for it? No, I do believe that. I think people get, like, no messages all day. You just miss a lot of them. You know, you get, like, brilliant ideas.

Like, God is like, why don't you go try it this way? And then you're like, oh, fuck, you know, I got to do this text right now. Oh, shit. I got to smoke you weed. I can't talk to you right now. You miss stuff. And then it gives it to somebody else. I know that sounds crazy, but that's really how I think it's like it.

It doesn't sound crazy to us. I think you just found your people in case you were looking. Okay. It makes more sense to me than it's totally random because the listener has to still form it and it has to still be interpreted through your understanding. You know, it could be a feeling that you're being carried or given that then has to be interpreted down through you. So that makes sense to me. Here's the story. So I've been divorced for 10 years and I have a 13 and a 16 year old. Oh, you're in hell. I know where you are.

That's called hell. No, they're actually pretty, they're pretty cool and we're doing okay. But when I was in the process of divorce, that was the first time I ever wrote. So I played piano since I'm four years old and I was raised just like playing piano and I was trained classically but mostly like a lot of Beatles, a lot of blues, like a lot of Jackson Brown, a lot of sad music. And I've never written. But for whatever reason, the emotions that were coming forth in that time in my life when I was in kind of that divorce time, I started writing. And some really shitty songs. I didn't write. No, no, they're really not. They were meaningful. to me, but, you know, clearly, Maisie Gray has something that I don't is really the moral of the

story. You wrote an album during COVID. I didn't do that. I started a podcast. Your album is the reset, and it's releasing summer, 22. You said that you wrote this right in the thick of the pandemic. It was a good time to make an album. Everybody was emotive and expressing themselves. And there's a song called PTSD, which is a song about, you wrote How My Country Gave Me PTSD. And I think many people can probably resonate with that. Yeah, were you planning on writing? Did it just sort of come out? You know, is there one sort of central theme that you felt, you know,

you were wanting to express with this album or just the general madness of the pandemic? Yeah, it was a really interesting time. Just like you said, you started to a podcast. I think it was really like a, I won't call it a blessing in his eyes, because that's so funny. But it was a time where we all kind of, you know, like everybody's real opinions came out. Like, you know, people were like, I liked it better when people

pretended that they liked you, you know. Because everybody was, you know, all of a sudden everybody wanted to be honest and, and, you know, the upside was, you know, if you're an artist, honesty can be really interesting. Honesty can make really great songs, movies, podcasts. You know what I mean? We were off and all the studios in their, like, closed for a while.

because of the COVID thing. And then right when they started opening up, I was like, I got to get into studio because we weren't doing anything else. But once we got in there, you know, all these, you know, you're still in that moment and the world is still kind of all around you.

Even if you just want to write a stupid love song, you know, I like fucking bitches, you know. But the world is still, you still have it, you know, the world is still on your shoulders, you know. And you still have a, you still have. a lot to say. And so if you give into that, you could probably come up with some really amazing stuff.

And I think that's what happened to us, you know? Because we went in out of time and nobody really gave a shit about records, records, or hits. So it was just, we just did our thing and it came out really great. It's probably one of the best albums I ever heard. Even if it wasn't my

album, I'd say. I would. I don't know if there's any, you know, kind of intersection between I don't want to really call it political awareness. because I think it's really just kind of humanity. You also, you co-founded My Good, which is an organization. You founded in 2020 that provides support to families who've lost a loved one to police violence. And this is my favorite part of this statement.

I don't know why it makes me feel very emotional. It says, regardless of the circumstances, my good provides emotional resources and financial support to families dealing with an impossible loss. I just thought that that was worded so beautifully, because it seems like, and I don't mean to get all poetic, but it seems like that's a lot of your strength as a songwriter as well. You really get to kind of the heart of the matter. And I thought even in this kind of, in this organization,

like, that's extremely important that regardless of circumstances, when families are dealing with a loved one who has died because of police brutality, they need that support to get through grief. And I wonder, you know, a lot of the reason that Jonathan and I started this podcast was, you know, long ago to in some years ago, you know, the country was on fire, as it should be, over the treatment specifically of black men. You know, it's something that many people felt very helpless about as it was happening really all over and still is and has been for quite some time. But I'm curious if there's an intersection of that with your music.

Like if you feel motivated kind of by that messaging or if it kind of is, just all who Macy Gray is and whatever music comes out comes out. No, that was not really, what we're actually really working on that, because that's just such an insane cause because you can't, no matter how much money you give, you can't change the police system because it's so old boys and the union.

It's very protected, right? When they call it gay, they are a real gay. But when we first started pitching the cause to people, you know, a lot of people were like super like, you know, pro-police and blah, blah, blah, and people would get all, you know, upset about it. But that's what I was saying. It doesn't matter how you feel about the police system or, your, publican or whatever. You know, some kid just got blown away for, and his mother doesn't understand.

Even if, you know, and they would say, well, I remember when, even people try to justify George Ford, well, he was passing counterfeit money, you know. But it doesn't matter, you know, somebody, there's a mom who just lost her son or, you know, he had a daughter and, you know, people, people's hearts are broken. And so that's what we come in because what I think most people miss is that you never see like a black dude in Beverly Hills getting shot. It's very, to me, it's a very economic situation. It's a very classist situation.

And I'm sure I think race does have something to do with it, but I think people don't realize if you do the numbers, most people, there's about 1,200 police shootings every year. Most of them are white, and I think that doesn't get sad enough. And so people think it's a black problem. And then Black Lives Matter popped up and outshod. And so people associate it with. But I think I think we get a lot further.

If everybody understands, it's everybody's problem. And it's really, to me, it's just, it's economics. It's where you live and just the reality that our system doesn't really give a shit about the people that live in those neighborhoods, and that's really what we need to deal with, you know. So we started it. It's really hard. It's a hard pitch because, like I said,

it happens to 1,200 people. If I say, we're raising money to cure cancer, you know, everybody's on that because we've all, you know, either are affected by cancer or we all might get it one day, you know. But if you say we support, you know, people who've lost someone due to the police. and 99.19% of people don't know what that's like.

So it's really, it's really hard, but I'm enjoying the challenge. And we actually, you know what we might be close? We went across this technical company, this data company. So did you see the movie Moneyball? No, I did not. Jonathan did. Yes, absolutely. Okay, he's quite a little.

So it's all about that. It's like instead of going out and finding, you know, the guy that's cool and hits a lot of home runs. You go out and do numbers. Like, on what days does they hit the moves, home runs, and blah, blah, blah. So there's this company called Slalom, and they did that with San Francisco PD. And they got all these numbers. So it turns out there's data.

There's, like, more people get shot on the weekends, and more people get shot blah, blah, blah. So I think that if we can present, like, that there's a, that there's a, system to it and people could get it and then you could start to fix it because everybody gets numbers. No matter how you feel about the police or race or whatever it doesn't

it doesn't help anything when when someone dies or is murdered by a policeman doesn't do anything for any of us you know so the idea is to minimize it maybe stop it all together that's the goal. I really

appreciate you not only starting this organization, but also speaking so freely about it. It's something we do talk about. Jonathan and I talk a lot also about sort of the mental health of this country. And the more we shove those things under the rug and act like it's someone else's problem, you know, the more it kind of festeres. And I guess in a related question, you've talked about mental health, you've talked about bipolar disorder. You know, for me, a lot of my issues with mania and with depression started more when I was in my teens and then into my 20s. But, you know, I remember having a childhood of like a lot of anxiety and just like feeling like things were unpredictable. My father of blessed memory

was bipolar. So I also, I grew up in a home with a lot of, we didn't talk about it. And it was just like, that's the way he is. And it wasn't until later that he received a diagnosis. And so I'm just curious, kind of what reflections you have about when you first noticed that you processed emotions differently. For me, it was almost always related to some romantic interlude. Exactly. Well, I wasn't diagnosed still. I was in school and I had a little incident

and I had to go to the hospital and then that's where they figured out I had a little issue but I think that was a time in history where people didn't like if you were just a little off everybody just thought you were a little off or if you like

did crazy shit oh he's just crazy or they always resort to, oh, he must be on drugs, you know. So, yeah, I think it's a lot more hard for when you're the age you were talking about, like early 20s, teens. It was a lot. But now that I'm older, I learned how to handle it a little bit better. But when you're in your 20s, like even 30s, it's rough.

What's harder for you historically, the Depression side? or the manic side? The manic side. That's my biggest fear is being manic because I don't know what I'll do. Right. I don't know what I'll do. Like you have, I don't know if people, like, people say, oh, he's out of control, but I don't know if people really know what that feels like to not have any say over what you're about to do

or understand it after it happens. Yeah. When people talk to you about it and half of it you don't even remember. and you're so fucked up, you don't even think he did anything wrong anyway. So it's, that's the scary. It's not, you know, it's all scary, but that's, you know, I don't, I stop taking the medication,

but before I only took it so I wouldn't get mad. Right. When I was just too, the craziest stupidest shit. So what's it like for you? Like, what other things do you do? Like, do you meditate? Do you meditate? do you like therapy?

Do you just do music? Like, what do you feel kind of helps keep you even? I don't know, honestly. Like, I've read a lot of books about it, how people, like, you can go your whole life and be like, I don't know, schizophrenic, you know, personality disorder,

I never know it. Because whenever you feel down, you have a drink or, all God forbid you do other stuff, you know. So I think I did. that for a long time and didn't even realize it, but then I stopped doing that. So I don't know what even made out. I think I just grew up a little bit. That helped. And I think my doctor did tell me, as you get older, it wears a little bit. Mm-hmm. It's not like it's your hardest,

hardest time through your 20s. Right. And are you a religious person? Like, do you have a deep faith? Like, Does that sort of also help in any way? I believe in God. I'm not into religion because it doesn't make any sense to me, but I do have my own little talks with God, you know. Me and I'm like this. Good. It's very important. Yeah.

Well, this was really, it was really lovely to talk to you. Would you be up for doing a little rapid fire before we let you go? Okay. All right. Here's Rapid Fire Breakdown style with Maisie Gray. What was your mother right about? was my mother right about, she's right about my ex-husband. What was your father right about?

My ex-husband. Never date a Knicks fan. Hey. Location that promotes your best mental health. Poker. Just any poker game? Yeah, I like playing poker. When I play poker, I have no problems.

I mean, I'm losing money and I'm not going to be able to pay my, you know, bills. what while I'm sitting there, I'm in heaven. Do you have a mantra or if you don't? Like, what would it be if you had a mantra? My mantra is, uh, fuck it, you know? Awesome. Can I add one just because I think it would be effective, given your past history? Yeah.

Just be quiet and let the angels throw wicked lyrics at you. Exactly. There you know. That's my new mantra. Who's perfect? Who's been your best spiritual teacher? My best spiritual teacher. Probably my son.

A moment of best intuition? Best intuition was never. My intuition's terrible. Who are you most competitive with? I hate to be corny and say myself, but it'll be myself. Macy Gray, thank you so much for talking to us. We wish you all the best with the new album and all the good things. And you're just really, really awesome.

And thank you so much. Thank you, guys. I had fun. All right. You like the lyrics to that song, Jonathan. You're not like a lyrics person like I am. By lyrics person, you mean I don't have every song I've ever heard memorized? Pretty much.

Word for word. Well, for some people, music's important. And for some people, lyrics are important. And for some people, both. Do you ever just get up on stage at karaoke and turn off the karaoke machine? I've never done all the- Never done karaoke. I've done it.

Okay, but you're not a singer. No, I'm not. Like, I'm a singer who doesn't do karaoke. I've done it once in a, but it was a private room. This is actually one of my great regrets. I do not have the ability to, like, let loose like that. I mean, I would sing my heart out if I could. And what if I think, well, I'm sure I think I sound better than I actually am.

And then it's on the internet. And then, like, my publicist has to deal with it. And, like, was she drunk? Probably. You'll know, because the next day she'll have a rush. That's a weird thing to say if people don't know that I actually am allergic to alcohol. Two years ago, Ma'am started to get allergic after two sips of wine. She just had a reaction and her body was like, no more. Sometimes one sip of beer would do it.

What I didn't get to tell Macy Gray, I love her style, and I could have talked about that forever, because that's one of the things also like kind of, even just today, like, hanging out in a restaurant, which is where she was. She's just like, she had this, like, awesome necklace. And I was like, why don't I have that necklace? She had a little beanie, but she looked awesome and, like, beautiful lipstick. No compare or despair because you're just a prisoner of your love. Oh, my God.

That's right. I have the lyrics up here. I'm just going to keep weaving them. You're just going to keep using them. So what I didn't get to tell her is that really the, I mean, there's so many things I love about this song. You know, the first kind of five seconds is this, like, violin awesomeness. And it's like a swelling thing and blah, blah. But at the end of the song, there's a lot of, like, open kind of riffing.

and like that's my favorite part to sing too. I usually sing back up for her. She may not realize that it's been me all these years. She was actually starting to sing. You guys had a tiny duet. You can barely hear it. It's the first time. I've been trying every singer we have on.

I've been trying to get it to happen. So there's something that happens at minute approximately 3.10 of this song. It's towards the end. There's something that she says, which sounds like almost like an improvised kind of like riff. and what it sounds like she's saying this is such if you'd like to know how my brain works when I think of this song I think of

Forest Whitaker Forrest Whitaker's in a movie called Ghost Dog which is a really really excellent film Looking it up The reason that I think of Forrest Whitaker and the movie Ghost Dog

is because The Way of the Samurai is the sub-title Because what it sounds like Macy Gray is saying at approximately 310 is Shadow Dog. And when I first thought that that's what she was saying, I thought that the Forrest Whitaker movie was called Shadow Dog, and then I looked it up and realized it's actually called Ghost Dog. But the association in my mind is still there.

I'm going to play this, okay? Just everybody listen. That was it. Did you hear it? Yeah, there is. Okay. Scott, what do you think she said? Oh, let's play it again.

All right. Now, it sounds like she's saying Shadow Dog. It does sound like she's saying Shadow Dog. I just... Anyway. Let's play a quick game. What do you think the most popular, remembered or known lyric is of that song?

Here are the choices. I'm playing it off, but I'm dreaming of you. No, and it's not, I'm playing it. Oh, jeez, don't ask Canadian Jonathan to do this. I am playing it off. I play it off, but I'm dreaming of you. No, that's not it. I try to say goodbye, but I choke.

I think that's it. That's probably it. I think it's very interesting that she said that she didn't like know that that was a hit. If I wrote this, I'd be like, this is it. And she's, nope. I also didn't know she was saying, I'll keep my cool, but I'm fienden. Sick of love. You're telling me, Scott, that Shadow Dog is sick of love.

I'm just looking at the end of the song on the list. and where it has the riffs in the print. Oh, I see. Though I try to hide it. Stick it up! Nope. Let's try it one more time. Sorry.

I have to, people. Just give me a second. Wow. That's a brain twister. It's like that internet test that went around. It's like, what do you hear, Yanni or Lori? No, it's also like the dress, black and yellow versus, as I call it, black and yellow versus blue and white. She writes in the same way that your mother paints. The angels just deliver her

messages. And God. And also Jesus. That's a deep throwback to a Bevisode where she talks about her painting. I think my new job here is just to link what happens in current episodes to past episodes. One thing I will say about our conversation about bipolar disorder, and I completely respect whatever sense of privacy she would like to have about it, which is completely, you know, that's her decision to make. But, you know, what she did say is that she had a significant episode and that she was in the hospital. And I think something that really touched me was when she talked about her fear and specifically her fear of being manic. And, you know, there's two main kinds of bipolar disorder, bipolar one, bipolar two.

And in bipolar one, you typically have, and I'm not diagnosing her, but in bipolar one, you typically have more, I don't know if extremes the right word, it's probably clinically not the right word, but bipolar one is characterized by depression and mania. bipolar 2 is characterized by hypomania and deeper depressive episodes. So, for example, the rates of suicide are higher in bipolar 2 than bipolar 1, but the rates of manic behaviors and things like excessive spending, sexual interactions that you might not normally have, you know, maxing out credit cards.

That typically happens more in bipolar 1. But there's absolutely an out-of-bodiedness that comes with. with mania and I think that's part of what, you know, what she was kind of talking about, you know, in terms of that fear of like not knowing like what you're going to say or how you're going to act. And for me, who's more of the hypomanic variety, a lot of the anxiety I have around that is the, they call it like manic irritability, that being manic isn't all like sunshine and fun things and feeling amazing and creative and like you're receiving messages from the universe. It also feels like why does no one understand what I'm thinking as fast as I'm

thinking it and why why doesn't everyone understand what needs to happen? And it's as if like you you want people to be inside your head. But one of the features, you know, of mania is, you know, thoughts coming faster than even you can process them. So, you know, for me, I, I tend to fear depression more because my mania has, has never gotten to the point, let's say, like she was describing. And I hope it never does. But it's just, I think it really depends on. individual experiences in terms of what you protect against, you know, if you're living with that. And I wasn't kidding, you know, romantic relationships is a really, really big tipping point for people with mania, with depression, and especially when those occur, you know, in one syndrome.

I also was going to say that we here at Bialaic Breakdown make no decisions for people about whether they should be on medication or shouldn't be on medication. And I think this is a really good time, you know, for people to remember that. Many of the aspects, and I'm not just speaking about Macy, but many of the aspects of bipolar disorder as you get older can be managed in a variety of ways. And I'm not just talking about self-medicating because for sure many people do self-medicate. But, you know, even basic things, you know, learning cognitive behavioral therapy techniques, you know, for me learning to identify mania when it was starting. as opposed to waiting until I was two days in, starting to notice the kind of loops that my brain

would start to do before I would begin to spiral for depression. Those were just really helpful tools that as your frontal cortex develops more and as you have less peer pressure and influence about relationships and decisions about, you know, sex and who's going to break up with you and who are you breaking up with, you know, all those things are very complicated, you know, for developing minds. But as we get all of the things, you know, older, we do become better at balancing those. We had Dan Matthews on. He wrote that book, like crazy, about his mother who did not receive a schizophrenia diagnosis until well into, I believe, her seventh decade of life. And while Macy did mention that, I do also want to say that that is

definitely more unusual. And the environment in which someone can live without a diagnosis, for example, of schizophrenia is a very specific kind of environment, I would imagine. And as for bipolar disorder, many people just aren't diagnosed. And I'm sure we all know that person, you know, the person who has really big swings, a person who's like really doing great when they're in a relationship. But then when the relationship ends, they live on your couch for nine months. But I think it's also really important to point out that, you know, we live in a culture of supreme attention to diagnosing. You know, we're very like, what's it called? What's the label? What box can I put you in? You know, Where do you belong? And many people choose to, you know, to exist outside of those kind of designations. And I don't really have, you know, a particular horse in the race. Like, I know for me, I choose to function at this point in my life with medication. No one seems to like when I don't have medication at this point. But, you know, depending on your stress level, depending on your lifestyle, depending on the lifestyle, depending on the the other things that you do to support your mental health, there are a lot of ways to be who you are, you know, and there are many, many artists in history who, you know, kind of we look back in retrospect and say like, oh, those were very clearly features of bipolar disorder. You know, many, many of our great musicians, you know, who have overdosed, who have committed suicide, those things don't happen.

isolation. That's a person in a state that is full of despair and hopelessness, you know. You've, you know, said several times on the pod that no one likes you when you're not a medication, and I think it should be clarified that you work. My therapist likes me. I go a lot. You work three jobs. You are under intense stress. You created a movie that had a ton of dynamics and getting it produced and all the ins and outs of that. making a TV show has a thousand decisions and people talking about all sorts of from different perspectives that need to be aligned. Like for you to say that doesn't equate to the number of pressures and variables that are in your life that you're juggling and to say what would your

life look like? What support would you need if your life was, you know, simplified in a different way? First of all, I do appreciate the acknowledgement of I do live a particular lifestyle. that's very intense, it has a lot of pressure, and I am a, you know, a divorced mom and all those things. But I think for me, part of, you know, the evolution of my understanding my brain and my genetics and my place in the universe is to not over-identify, but to, in my opinion, appropriately own that I am a person for whom my chemistry is very, very... difficult for me to manage. And I think, and the reason that I'm sort of, you know, respectfully, you know, kind of

disagreeing with your assessment is that. And you may believe this, and that's your prerogative, you know, for so long I fought, you know, I fought like, oh, it's because of this. It's because of that. It's because of school. It's because I'm not pretty. It's because I'm not this. And while I'd like to believe that if you put me in an ashram and I had no stress and no pressure and someone cooked for me all day and I could like do yoga and meditate and not read the newspaper, yeah, I think I might be able, for me, I might be able to to function. I live in this world, you know, I live in this world as a person, you know, who has, who has mental illness, Like, I know you're not supposed to say, like, I'm an anxious person.

Like, I experience anxiety, you know? But for me, there's been a real relief in kind of letting go of the, I'm this way because of. It's not that I don't do things to try and increase, you know, my mental health. And there have been times when I've been on four medications, you know, now I'm only on two. I'm not negating any of what you say. I feel like a little bit, you're like, if you just rub the crystal the right way. No, I'm not saying that at all. Maybe if you eat meat, you'll not be depressed.

I think that our lifestyle is a huge factor in what we experience and how we experience it. Like you think if I was a hunter-gatherer, I wouldn't be. Like, picture me in a hunter-gatherer society. What would I be like? For me, my alarm bells go off when anyone is, I am a certain way versus there are a series of factors that combine to make my experience. right now. Okay. When you say that you feel better saying that you're an anxious person, I would say there are many factors in your life that create a high level of likelihood that you will experience anxiety. That's not to say that you as a core human being divorced or separated

from the factors that are contributing are an anxious person. I don't think you can have that differentiation that there's, I mean, I think there is a core difference between you as at a fundamental level versus the combination of factors that exist right now. And I don't think it's fair to go to the other extreme. You accuse me of this all the time. It's black or white. I'm either in the world. I'm reading the news. I have 10,000 jobs and the most stress in the world, or I'm in an ashram and I'm only sitting on top of a mountain. There's a series of steps in between. Here's the thing. If I were in like a hunter gatherer community, you would be on Lookout for the people attacking.

I'd be like, you're breastfeeding wrong. Let me do it. Go take that to him. He's holding that spear wrong. I'm also going to organize everyone. I'm going to take an inventory of all the wheat and berries that we have. But next other version of that is you could be checking weather patterns for the changing of the season.

And I'm telling people when it's time to start to pack and move on to the next location. I'd also be the town therapist. I'd be so helpful. There wouldn't be a town. I'd be the community. That'd be the village. I'd be the, yeah. I mean, I.

Or who knows? Maybe you would be off collecting fish and seashells and be wandering in the woods being an artist. I'm going to tell a little story of something that happened to me recently that made me feel like either I need more medication. or I cannot exist in the world. I'm going to tell you all a little story. I went on an airplane.

It was a short flight to see family in the Bay Area. I was on an airline where you don't get a seat. You just, like, get on in a particular order. So I get on towards the front of the plane. And I go to put my little suitcase above. And there's a, what I would deem a wealthy gentleman. I saw the tag on his bag, said that he was like, I don't know, like a real estate guy.

or something. And he had placed his bag long ways in the overhead bin. Okay? Mine doesn't like that. Well, so here's the thing. He placed his bag long ways in the overhead bin and I needed to put my bag there because I needed to sit down and you want your bag near you, like whatever. So I noticed that it was sideways and I just said to him, I'm just going to turn your bag because sometimes people get touchy if you touch their stuff without asking. So I just said, I'm just going to move your bag so that I can put my stuff there and he gave me a look

I wasn't even reading into it so annoyed and outraged and the feeling that came up in me was I was very agitated and I could not stop myself I said that way more people's bags can fit in

and he didn't say anything but I sat down and I thought you know what? You know, I used to be a very road-ragy person, you know, and it's, it was that, it's, I'm not, I'm not in a centered place if that's the level of conversation I'm having. And what I also realized is there's a strong sense of injustice when people like that do things and no one stops them. Because I want to live in a world where a flight attendant isn't afraid that he will take out a gun and shoot her for saying, sir, please put your bag in so that the maximum number of people on a full flight can have their luggage in the overhead bin. He wouldn't have a gun because he would have gone through the metal

detector, but he might use physical violence against them. And that's the thing. And I'm thinking like so many people would say like, you shouldn't get upset about it. It's just going to raise your blood pressure. But there's a really strong sense of like injustice to me. And like I I wish I didn't have it. I mean, this is a real thing. Timber Hawkeye has his, his quote is that, you know, mindfulness doesn't make people less annoying. They make you less annoyed. And it is one of the great practices of our time to not look around and say why everyone is wrong and everyone is doing it wrong and everything is frustrating. I totally understand.

And also, if you had either just moved his bag, not said anything, known you were in the right and then waited for him to say anything, you would have had a layer of protection up. if you had not cared about his stupid face and the reaction he made and knew that you were in the right and not sort of anticipated what the reaction would be because if you have listened to the Dustin Hoffman episode, you've been primed to be hypervigilant and scan your environment and see what the next reaction is going to be that you're going to have to defend against. If you just were like, I need to do this, this is a reasonable thing to do. I don't care what is what anyone's response is going to be, then you wouldn't have been looking for justice. You would have just been the agent of the action that you know you need to take.

He got you all riled up. Also, my kid, my kid, I mean, my children have seen me almost punch people in the face more times than I'm happy to report. Oh, we were at Whole Foods and your mom opened your car door, and you almost got into an altercation with the woman whose car she hit. I had to like talk you off the ledge and walk you into Whole Foods so there wasn't a parking lot brawl. Oh, that, that woman also, I'm sorry, like that. No, that was a totally de-escalable situation. That's a new word.

What happened was, Mom, I love you, but you lied and said that you didn't. Bold-faced. Bev, I'm sorry. When you did. But I didn't know that. So all I see is this outraged mom. or whoever she was, maybe she wasn't a mom, this outraged woman coming at me like,

look what you did, and she could have just been like, whoa, I think you may have hit my car, can I just look? Like, she was at this level, and then my mom is like, no, I didn't. And I'm like, ma'am, just like, give me a second. Okay, the woman was at this level. I'm raising my hands like by my head. And so your solution to that was to go 10 levels beyond.

I was defending my lying mother. But you need to be the agent of change that you would like in the world. Basically, you have to at all times be ready to deescalate because everyone else is in rage mode. You know what the comments denominator is in these two situations? My mother. She was present at both. This really did turn into therapy. It all comes back to her. Jonathan, people need to subscribe to our Instagram channel, which is growing by leaps and bounds.

Love that. Go to Biolic Breakdown. Tell us the problems you have with your mother at Biolic Breakdown on Instagram. Tell us if you've ever punched someone in the face on behalf of your mother at Beolic Breakdown. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's My and Beolic's Breakdown. She's going to break it down for you.

She's got a neuroscience Ph.D. or two. One fiction. And now she's going to break down.