Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Melanie “Sporty Spice” Chisholm: The Discipline of Girl Power

Episode Date: December 20, 2022

Melanie Chisholm (AKA “Sporty Spice” of the Spice Girls, solo artist, author of The Sporty One memoir) joins us to discuss the Spice Girls’ impact on music and culture, battling difficult personal struggles in the extreme public eye, and the toll playing a caricature of yourself can take. She reveals the origins of the band and their “Girl Power” message, the similarities between each band member and their onstage personas, and why she finally decided to reflect on her experiences in her new memoir. Mel C opens up about the onset of her disordered eating, why she finally decided to seek help, and the toxicity of the tabloid media when Spice Girls rose to fame compared to today’s social media. Mayim and Melanie consider denial as a coping mechanism, the loneliness that comes with disordered eating, and the impact of the loss of Queen Elizabeth II. Melanie Chisholm's memoir, "The Sporty One: My Life as a Spice Girl": https://www.grandcentralpublishing.com/titles/melanie-chisholm/the-sporty-one/9781538740316/ BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm a spice girl. I've done these ridiculously incredible things, but you know what? Some days for me, getting out of bed was the biggest achievements. You know, so we just need to applaud what we deem as the small things sometimes. It's Myambialic's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you because you know she knows a thing or two. So now she's going to break down. Hi, I'm Myambiolic and welcome to My Breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so that you don't have. have to. And let me tell you, you could not break this one down without us. Because if you ever wondered anything about the pop phenomenon and global sensation that was, is the spice girls, you've come to the right place. Before I explain why you should keep listening to this episode, I'd like to acknowledge that my co-pilot Jonathan Cohen is not here today. But I will fill him in on all of the

incredible things that happened today. So we have Mel C with us. She has released a memoir, The Sporty One, and we're going to talk all about it. I was in college when the Spice Girls came out, full disclosure. However, I knew who they were. And honestly, through reading this book, I understand a lot more the significance of their impact on the music world and also really the culture that we were all living in and really continue to live in. She's very honest. about what it was like to experience fame when there were voices in her head telling her so many things about what she should look like and act like. And she talks really courageously about an eating disorder that progressed significantly. And she's got a lot of insight. And she

was my favorite spice. And I think you'll see why. I do want to mention their debut single want to be came out in 1996. It topped the charts in 37 countries. I don't know if I could name 37 countries. And their debut album, Spice, went on to sell more than 31 million copies worldwide. It was the best-selling album of all time by a female group. They sold 85 million records, which is a mind-boggling number. They released three studio albums, 13-6. singles, they won a ton of awards and also traveled and continue to have different events where the Spice Girls are still, you know, kind of part of the cultural vernacular. Mel C is also a solo artist. I think she's released eight albums. She's had over three million album sales, two number

one singles, six top ten singles, and she's a really, really lovely, funny person. You'll even learn some slang if you stay tuned. So, um, welcome to the breakdown, Mel C's Sporty Spice. Break it down. It is a pleasure to talk to you and really, you know, a real, you know, kind of time warp for me because, you know, you existed a very specific way at a very specific time and, you know, the entire world's life. Um, and not that you weren't a grown up then, but you are a grown up now and you've written this book, the sporty one, my life as a spice girl. I'm holding an advanced copy, so mine may look a little bit different. First of all, congratulations. This is a, it is a big memoir. And I know you did a lot of, you know, kind of research, obviously, as one does. But

I know that I don't know you from reading this book, but I feel like it's the kind of book that you really do get to walk through kind of every stage of not only your life and the events that so many of us were tracking, but we get to kind of experience them through your mind and your experience of them. And it's a really special book. I'm curious from a personal perspective, did you feel like you needed to write your story or did it just kind of evolve from a lot of different places? Well, there's definitely been times in my life when I thought I'm never going to do it because I never felt like I wanted to, like I wanted to expose the inner workings of everything that I'd been through. And there was a few separate things that happened that just started to make

me feel differently about it. One of them was in 2019, myself and three of the other Spice Girls, sadly we didn't have Victoria with us at the time, but we performed some stadium shows in the UK in Ireland. And it was incredible. And one of my most precious moments of being a spice girl. And I think the reason being is that this snowball effect just started to happen where we've always had such a beautiful response from the public and always getting approached by people who love the music, who were affected in such a positive way. And it just felt like this was happening. more and more. We were hearing these incredible stories of people that had been inspired by being a Spice Girls fan. And there's always offers. There's always things going on. Do this show,

do this TV, whatever it might be. And we just all started to think, you know what? I think we should do it. It felt like a good time. So we had this incredible creative and we wanted this show to be for the fans. We wanted it to be a celebration of everything we'd achieved in the 90s. So we get up on that stage all these years later, petrified, and the minute we come through the stage, we rose up on this lift, we could just feel this wave of love and excitement. And it just took all of those nerves away. And every single show on that tour was incredible. And it just, it just altered my perspective. It made me not only realise, because we always knew it had been amazing and affected a whole generation of people and new generations that go on to discover us.

But it just started to think in. You know, we started to accept what had happened. And I also found this self-acceptance in that I was worried to become sporty spice again. But I was like, she never went anywhere. She's inside me. She's part of me. And I just started this little journey of going, you know what? I have all these aspects of me.

And I'm not sporty spice on Monday. Melanie's here on Tuesday, I'm Mum on Wednesday, and all of these things all of the time. So that felt really positive. And it inspired me to write a record. I released an album in 2020, which was self-titled, the first single being Who I Am. And the book seemed to be an extension of that. I started to think, I have got an amazing story to tell. Then I met a great publisher, and he said to me, look, it would be your book.

It would be whatever you want it to be. And I just thought, you know what, there's been a lot of pain in my life as well as a lot of joy and a lot of success and crazy moments and ridiculous moments. And I just thought, you know what? I've always been candid in interviews and some publications aren't that sensitive in the way that they write these things up. And I thought, if I can put them in my own words, then maybe this can be helpful because I know some of the things I've experienced have left me feeling so isolated and so lonely. and to read other people's experiences as been something that has really helped me in the past. So I was really keen to be able to do that for other people too.

That makes a lot of sense. And I kind of love also that the book does feel like an evolution of your own thoughts, meaning there's all the excitement of those early years and you capture all of that, but you start kind of sprinkling in, you know, the evidence, as it were, right? We all have evidence of the places where it started to feel shaky, right?

or feel out of control. And I absolutely, you know, I mean, I don't think anyone has experienced what you all experienced in terms of the fame and the notoriety. And, I mean, like, really larger than life. And, you know, there's really no way to compare also because the spice girls were absolutely it for that moment in time, meaning it was before social media. Like you said, it was before that kind of social media madness had. exploded so you also got to sort of evolve. I don't want to say legitimately, but legitimately,

it was like the music and the touring and that kind of personality. I was surprised to learn this. Most of you, if not, I think you said most, grew up in working class families and you grew up close to the home of the Beatles, which is very exciting for those of us who are excited about Liverpool that way. You all, there was an, I learned so many words also while we're, while we're this book. I do appreciate the glossary in the back, but I felt like I understood a lot of things from context, but who, girl, you use a lot of words in the place you come from that we do not use here. So I was, you know, I had to do a little bit of English to English translation, but it was really cool. Like, it feels like it's your voice. But you mentioned that you answered an advert.

You all answered an advert. So none of you knew each other. No. I had an awareness. of Victoria because we both were at performing arts colleges. And they were almost rival colleges, really, very similar. And once we went out into the world, started the auditioning, then, you know, you got to know the people to look out for. And Victoria was one of those people. But it wasn't until I went down. And it was on a secondary call when I met Jerry, Victoria and Melby.

But I hadn't met Emmy yet. So there was a few twists and turns before we get the final five. Right, but essentially the advert was, what did it say? It said something along the lines of, are you? And I think with an R and with a you, 18 to 24, outgoing, you know, can dance, sing. And it was basically just for this young, fun, girl band. And I had been pursuing a career in musical theater. and that was because I thought that that was more realistic than being a pop star

when the reality of actually working in musical theatre is quite extraordinary in itself. But, you know, aim for the highs. But this advert was actually placed in my hand. It was like a little flyer. And I was with a good friend of mine who was also a dancer. And I just turned to her and said, that's it. That is what I'm going to do. And from that moment, yeah, I just had this, like, I just had this feeling and this instinct.

You know, I talk about in the book, you know, I was probably the most precocious and annoying child because I was going to be famous. You know, I would tell everybody. I would practice my autograph. So, yeah, maybe it was destined to be. And also your mom was a singer. And so it, you also, I mean, I would assume that was encouraged to some extent. And your, your, your mom also had, she had traveled. Like, she had a real kind of musician's life experience. So I'm sure in some ways that also felt like it was in the water a little bit. Yeah, totally. I think the thing with my mum, it had to put me off a little bit because she'd done well and she'd had a couple of deals in the 70s with various bands, but it'd never really gone to the extent or as far as she wanted it to. So I just knew it was hard and it was incredibly hard and she worked all week, all week long in an office and then she gigged all weekend and my mum still sings now whenever she gets the opportunity. So I just knew it was it was a tough thing. to do and it couldn't necessarily pay the bills. So I was, yeah, just trying to be a little bit more realistic about my expectations. My MBialx Breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine.

Drink more water. There's no real data. There's no game plan. This has happened to me many, many times, especially on the perimenopause journey. That's why we're fascinated by what Superpower is doing. They send a licensed professional to your home or you can visit a nearby lab. One simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers. That's way more than you usually get.

It unlocks a true understanding of your body. Their app has detailed information on heart, liver, thyroid hormones, metabolism, vitamin, and mineral levels, even environmental toxins. From disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog or simply optimizing your gym game, superpower is the most comprehensive and advanced system out there. I've been super tired of constantly guessing or just trying to. or read articles online about what to do for health. Superpower gives you an actionable health plan based on personal results. It's a real game changer.

Plus, they have an on-demand clinician team to answer questions. Supplement or prescription suggestions can be directly bought through superpower, so you don't have to go anywhere else. They also have nutritional guidance, tips for lifestyle and behavioral adjustments. You even get your true biological age that you can track over time. Superpower used to cost $499. Right now, it's $199 for the full experience, which is much more affordable than any.

anything else out there. Make this the year you stop guessing about your health with Superpower. Superpower. Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just $199, but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional $20 off with the code break. Head to Superpower.com. Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention My and Biala's Breakdown to help support the show. You know, obviously the pages of these books, I think obviously tell it the best. you know, it's kind of like long story short, the five of you became the spice girls as we know them. And there's some really great stories also about, you know, an aspect of the industry that, you know,

as an actor person, I didn't know about, you know, in terms of like the way the five of you then need to get representation and, you know, first you get a manager and then a record deal. And what ended up happening is you, the five of you ended up being these creative, collaborators. And it was not just about the music. There was a performance level also that was a huge, you know, feature of what the spice girls were. But beyond that, you know, there was this representation of, you know, what was called at the time girl power. And that became a huge component of the messaging. Can you talk about how that evolved? Was that an organic thing? Was it someone that someone, it was something someone suggested? Did you all come up with it? What was that

like? So in the very beginning, we wanted to be a girl band. We wanted to make music. We wanted to have fun. We wanted to travel the world, sound of autographs, do the red carpets, all the things. We had no intention of having this big message we wanted to put out there. But quite quickly, when we started getting into the industry, we were meeting lots of people at labels, lots of people in the media who kept telling us girl bands don't sell. Girls, young girls, want to buy records made by boys.

And this was a red rag to a bull. You know, this is perfect for the spice girls. You know, this was the fire we needed in our belly. So quite quickly, we were like, you know what? We have to be a girl band for girls. We need to change things. We're not having this. And that's where the girl power message first came from. You know, so it was never

intended. All of the things, these little things, the individuality. You know, the way we dress differently. There was so much about the spice girls that, thank goodness, these things happened. But it was pretty much by chance. That kind of gives me chills. It wasn't even the initial evolution that it literally came from a place of being told, no, no one's going to want this. And wow, one of the things, I'm sure, that, you know, you all experienced really simultaneously with that success is, a tremendous level of scrutiny and criticism which boy bands do not get. And the fact is, you know, women get it more than men, even if they're not, you know, in bands. But the five of you really were,

you know, opening up your entire life, really, by becoming such a ubiquitous part, you know, of culture. Can you talk, I mean, I'll get into more kind of how that impacted you, but can you first talk about what was that like? It was pretty shocking at the time because, you know, we've been together for a couple of years before we released our first single wannabe. And, you know, to a young person, that feels like an eternity. So we were more than ready. You know, we were, we were so frustrated. We wanted to get out there. But nothing can compare you to be thrown into the public eye in that way. And, you know, and I obviously I don't know America as well as I know the country that I grew up. But in the UK, I think we're pretty well known for how brutal our tabloid media can be.

Sure. And they were obsessed immediately, you know, with each of us, with all of us. And it's like, who's your favorite and pulling everybody apart? Who's the best? Who's the worst? Who's the hottest? You know, who's the ugliest? It was constant.

and, you know, as a young person with all this ambition and everything being so exciting and so positive, you just don't think that's going to happen. You're not prepared for a lot of the negative aspect of things that come your way. And that's pretty hard. That's pretty hard to get your head around and to deal with with all these new thoughts and feelings.

And then, you know, it's so different now, of course. You know, I feel like everybody has, has this with social media. You know, we all have an opinion and we're all very happy to share it, whatever it may be. And there's no escaping it. You know, we're actually glued to our phones. It's like, you know, I feel at like some point,

like with my daughter, she's actually not going to be able to get it off her actual hand. But back then, it was the tabloids and it was disgraceful and discussing the way that they spoke about women. It hasn't changed that much. I think the language has changed. But I think there's still a long. way to go. I feel like there's this huge lag. I think we've changed our cultures, obviously,

America and the UK being very similar. Our cultures have changed in many ways and the media need to catch up. I agree very strongly. And also, I'm wondering, and this is not, I'm not asking you to name names. I know, of the Spice Girls books, I've read yours. So what I'm curious about is, and again, you don't need to be specific, but was there a variation in reaction to kind of fame and this aspect? I'm asking because, you know, I was in the public eye as a young person and, you know, there were other people I worked with and everybody kind of deals with it differently, you know, and in some sense there's like a shared experience because we're all, you know, experiencing the same thing getting publicized. But there's

going to be individual variability. Did you find that you all had different reactions or did some of you feel one way and, you know, did that provide some camaraderie? Yeah, you know, I think there was two things. It was like a dual thing that was going on because, you know, like you say, there's some comfort in having a group of people who are experiencing the same thing. But, you know, we all experience these things in very different ways and deal with it in different ways. And of course, within the band, there are different characters, different personalities, a dynamic. So, you know, some people were written about more and then of course, you know, we're all competitive and we're younger and we're ambitious.

So that's hard to navigate. And, you know, it's so weird because we put a lot of pressure on ourselves and on each other and we were incredibly tight and impenetrable at the beginning, which was great. It gave us that strength. But, you know, I think cracks do start to appear because, like you say, people just deal with things differently. And, you know, some people thrive in that environment

or believe they're thriving. Some people's egos get out of control, you know, but we're always like this. We were always like self-policing. And it was, yeah, it's a lot. There's a lot going on in it and it continues to evolve. The way that the five of you were kind of, I don't want to say treated, but kind of processed, you know,

through the public opinion, these kind of personalities emerged. And, you know, I would imagine some of them, you know, might have been part of your, your natural personalities. And, you know, you called your book The Sporty One. So you were Sporty Spice. You were my favorite. I'm not just saying that.

And I believe you were Valerie's favorite, our producer Valerie. And, you know, I'll just, I know you're not asking, but I'm going to tell you anyway, why was Sporty my favorite? I was, you know, an athletic. you know, kind of sporty type. And for me, you know, I was raised, you know, a little bit like rough and tumble, you know, so I liked that there was something about, you know, your persona that was, I mean, this is, again, this is just like my perception.

Like, you seemed like strong and spunky. Like, you seemed like the one, I mean, again, this is like, you seem like the one who would, like, defend the others in a bar fight. Like, you seem like the one who would, like, kick a guy to the curb if he was mean to your friend. Like, that's, you know, that's what I saw. And, you know, and then there were these other personalities. And that was about the kind of female that I pictured I could hang out with. I didn't excel with other women at that stage of life, meaning I was like, to this, to that,

too loud, too masculine, to whatever it was. So I'm curious, like, in terms of the, you know, the dynamics, like, if you would have put me in a room with one other female who wasn't exactly like me, I would have just cried all the time and constantly compared myself. So I'm curious, you know, as these sort of like, you know, personalities and dynamics emerged, were there choices about who would be what level of relatability for the public or did it just emerge organically? Oh my goodness. I mean, that is, it's so funny, isn't it? And it's so interesting kind of how it seems on the outside. So basically, when we were with our original management, they had.

had a bit of a vision for this band. And they were keen to have a lead singer. They were keen for us to all. They have a look to dress a certain way. And I have to say the very first time I met all of the girls, three of them at once and then Emma a little bit later. My immediate impression of those people was spot on. To this day, nobody has changed that much.

And it's because people say to me, oh, you know, because people, some people when they get famous, you know, they're a real pain in the ass, right? And I'm like, they were a pain in the ass to begin with, right? It's got nothing to do with becoming famous. But these personalities were fully formed. But we were given nicknames by a magazine, the nicknames that everybody knows.

Is that right? I didn't know that's how it happened. Yeah. Yeah. So it was so crazy. So we were with our original management. They wanted us to be this certain way. We were like, no, we want to be this democracy.

We want to each have our own, that equal part to sing. We want to dress the way we dressed. Somebody always looked and felt awkward. You know, me and a little baby doll dress, it wasn't happening. You know, ginger in a track suit. It wasn't happening. So we were at rehearsals. I was in my trackie.

Victoria was in a much nicer dress. And we was just like, let's just do this thing. and the way that we behaved and the way that we looked the way that we dressed these silly little throwaway nicknames were given to us by so you must know of Top of the Pops

Yes It was a huge music show here for years and years and they had a magazine And they used to give people silly names And there was a spice rack In the front of the magazine one week Giving us sporty

Ginger, Posh and Baby And they just stuck And we loved it Because we became caricatures Of ourselves You know So we really played up to it. But the funny thing is, when we're together, even now, we like laugh at each other.

Melby is always in Leppoprint. And if you met Mel B, you would know why she's called Scary because she is. And you know what? I would definitely defend my girls in a bar fight. I think that's the thing with all of us. We were like, we were so super tight. Yes, we've had our in fights and struggles and ups and downs and fallouts and makeups. But if anybody crosses any of us, there is.

As we say in Liverpool, notting down for them. This is a dumb question. Why was Ginger just called Ginger? Why didn't they give her a... I mean, she was ginger spice, but it doesn't really tell you anything about her except she's a ginger. Well, this is an interesting cultural thing,

which often when I'm with American friends, they can't rock their head around. So British people are obsessed with people with red hair. I'm obsessed with people with red hair. This is my thing. But so that's her personality. She's just a redhead that everyone's obsessed with? No, but in the UK, it's a put down.

Oh. These people are bullied. People with red hair are bullied. Oh, that's like the redheaded stepchild, we call it. No, it's the same here too. I love a redhead. Love a redhead. Yeah.

So what was wonderful, so she had this. You know, Jerry's her. She's kind of a strawberry blonde, but she used to, you know, diet, it's bright, bright, red. And it was such a wonderful thing because she's this huge personality. I see. But where ginger's always being seen as a negative thing,

she was doing it for the gingers. How did I live this long, not knowing that? Because everybody's like, oh, there's these four spied. They all have a personality. And then she's just a redhead. That's how we saw it. Okay, this is very important. She was empowering the gingers.

Yes. So you said, something that I think leads to a really, you know, important next point that I wanted to have you speak to. When you say, and you said it playfully, and I totally get what you mean, we became caricatures, you know, of ourselves, right? You see in these pages that there is a toll that that eventually takes. And what I think was the, you know, one of the most interesting and also really disturbing parts of the way you tell your story is that. that the conflict for you started very early.

And it simply kept getting tucked away. And you tucked it away wherever you could. You tucked it away under fame, under excitement, under distraction. And then eventually your mind started to try and distract itself even more, to try and maintain control. And it gets into, you know, the really brave discussion you have throughout the book about body dysmorphia and about eating disorders and disordered eating and specifically, you know, really restricting and eventually, you know, binging or compulsive overeating as,

as we call it here. What, when did that kind of hit you that there was something in conflict for you? Was it very, very early? I'd love you to share with people kind of what that struggle was like. It was something, I think, that began very early on. There was. a comment made on the way that I looked and this band meant everything to me. It was, you know, my entire childhood dream was all on this band. You know, we were together, things were happening, things were moving. And then for somebody to, it was a really throw away comment probably made as a little joke. This person probably doesn't even remember saying it. But it hit me so hard because it made me question whether I looked the way I needed to look to achieve the things I wanted to achieve.

So that was like, okay, I can control this, you know, and that's when I started to restrict my eating for the first time. Because you found a solution, right? So you were like, oh, here's a problem that was presented to me or my brain is having a problem. So I'm going to fix myself, right? Yeah, absolutely. And then there's another incident in the book. I talk about the brick. in 96, so it's the year before we've released anything. So not really many people there knew who we were. But I have a few drinks and I have a little fallout with Victoria Posh Spice and the next day I'm in all kinds of trouble and it's threatened that I have to leave the band if I behave like that again. So another little trigger goes where it's like, I can't believe I jeopardised

everything with my behaviour. I have to control my behaviour. So just all of these little elements of control started to appear. So I'm trying to control the way I look, by the way I eat and exercising more. Right. Yeah. And then I was just basically, it started off being quite mild, but it just escalated. And I think it escalated because obviously the pressure became more and more. You know, the stakes got higher and higher.

And, you know, it continued throughout the band to the point where I had no control and I had to seek help. It was hard to follow emotionally, you know, as I was going through this journey, how much you still showed up despite what you were going through. And, you know, I don't want people to listen to this and be like, she didn't work in the coal mines. She didn't fight in a war, but you fought in the greatest war that we go into. And that's the battle with ourselves and our self-hatred, our self-criticism. But you did it the way millions of, I think girls and women especially, and also men and boys deal with. But you did it while also needing to perform and work kind of constantly for a series of many years while dealing with this.

How did you juggle that? You know, how did you go from, you know, the pain that you were in, you know, to try and, you know, need to control all this? and also like put on that happy face and remember your lines and your steps and like be a social public person with constant scrutiny of what you looked like because that's what it is to be a public woman. Yeah, absolutely.

I think especially in the 90s, even more so. You know, it was a different time completely. You know, not saying that it's any easier now, but it is different. No, but we talk about different body types now. That didn't even exist. Like it didn't even, People can't even realize, like, you rarely saw different body types.

There was no notion that, oh, different, some cultures of men like curvy women. What? Yeah, the aesthetic was completely different, wasn't it, in the 90s? And yeah, there was no, there was no diversity at all in that way. You know, it was in what I call the Spicerania Day, so like 96 to 98, 99, it was something I hadn't even admitted. to myself. It was something I had to do. I had no choice. A tiny little voice occasionally will creep up and go, you can't keep doing this. This is unsustainable. And a bigger voice would go, you've got no choice. You have to do this. So I was in denial for a long, long time. So,

you know, I suppose part of the beauty of that at the time was that I had an incredible time with the girls. You know, yes, there were things going on in the background. When I think and look back, it's incredibly sad, and I feel sad for that, my younger self. But it wasn't really until we toured in 98, we had a little bit of time apart. I started to embark on my solo career, and that's when I just couldn't do it anymore. And that's when things started to change. And it was, yeah, the compulsive overeating began, and that was me losing control. And that was the scariest moment for me.

you're right, I continue to work. That makes total sense to me, meaning like denial, you know, that's a, it's a very strong, it's a protective mechanism. But when you finally sort of began to come into your own, as it were, meaning as an individual, it is fascinating that that is when this kind of breakdown of sorts, you know, a, you know, kind of everything coalescing, that's when that happened. And then I would like turn the page and I was like, oh, but then she really. an album. Oh, but then she did this. Like you still, I mean, you were really juggling two very unmanageable

things, you know, a career that was demanding so much of your time, right? And also like trying to be whoever you were post, you know, Spice Mania. And then also, you know, a progressive desire to control more and more. And this is a, you know, we say these things are progressive, you know, they sometimes stay the same. They rarely get better, you know, without kind of support. So when you describe sort of, you know, I think even you were surprised when you finally came to a real breaking point and you went to, I mean, you said you had to put on a hoodie and glasses and, you know, kind of, you know, scurry with as much privacy as you could. But when you were told this is depression. This is, this is actually, this has a name. This isn't just you're not working hard enough. You, you know, can't put on your big girl panties. This is you are in a spiral, you know, and it is. It's like being in a dark, dark cave and you don't even know which way is out. There's a word that you use a lot in the book, and it's to describe a state, and you use it deliberately.

I'm not pointing out that you used a word too much, but there's a way that you describe what you were feeling kind of before it had a name. And the word you use is lonely. And you describe being lonely when surrounded by hundreds of thousands of people. You describe being lonely, you know, when you're by yourself, you describe being lonely. You know, there's a lot of places where it found you. What did you mean? Meaning what were you feeling that you were able to say, this is lonely? I think in the days when I was.

unwell and hiding a lot behind closed doors, having that secret, keeping that secret was really lonely, not being able to share that with anybody. Because I am a really open and honest person and I'm a terrible liar as well. God knows how I kept the secret for so long. So that made me feel incredibly lonely. And I think there's also this thing, you know, I am very disciplined and I still have a lot of structure in my life, especially when I'm working. It's something that makes me feel safe. And I have to be very mindful for this, you know,

like all of us, this work, life balance. Because I can work, work, work, work, because that's my safe place. It's my distraction. You know, the rules are set in place. I'm not going to lose control. So I have to, you know, spontaneity to me completely makes me freak out. But I'm getting better at it.

But I remember so many times, you know, being on stage, and I think lots of performers talk about this, and you could be performing to hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of people, and you're sharing this experience, this connection, and then you go back to your hotel room and the noise stops. And that is an incredibly lonely place. You know, a lot of people ask, and we get a lot of questions, you know, on our podcast, You know, when should you get help? From what you've been through, what would you say?

With hindsight, I look back and I wish I'd reached out sooner, which, you know, is easy to say now because I don't think anybody does until they're ready to do that. But I do feel, in a way, you know, in the position that I was in doing the things I was doing, there were other people around me that had some responsibility. I kind of wish that somebody had sat me down and said, look, you know, you need a break. You need some time out. I mean, I know there were times when Jerry did approach me, you know, very early on I was starting to lose weight. I mean, the thing is, with the things I was going through, the issues that I was forming, your appearance changes.

You know, so you think you're hiding everything. You know, I was so secretive and I was so isolating. and avoiding these social situations or I didn't have to eat. But it's like you're completely displaying all the signs of the problems that you're having, you know, but I wasn't ready to talk about it. And nobody was talking about it in any large ways.

That's the thing also, you know. Now we do. We talk about it all the time, but we don't talk about it still enough. Yeah, you know, I think the hardest thing is and the thing I still find difficult is that, you know, sadly, there are so many people who suffer with these things.

And we have people close to us that we may have concerns for. And still, even as a person who's experienced a lot of this, how do we approach it? How do we approach them? You know, it's really, really hard. And I think the best thing that has come out of the last 15, 20 years is that we do talk about it more. You know, with mental health, you know, the stigma that we used to have here in the UK, and I'm sure the US is exactly the same. I mean, it's incredible.

It's madness for want to be a better word. But I think, you know, there were many things that took me to the GP. I think Fiat was the biggest thing because I was frightened of where it was going to lead, where it was going to go. It was vanity because I couldn't control my eating anymore and I was gaining more and more weight. And also, I thought I was losing my mind. You know, I didn't know what was going on inside my head. So to hear those words from a medical professional telling me I had depression was a huge relief. And it made me realize, wow, it's got a name. It can be treated and potentially I can get better.

There's a section where you talk about, you know, kind of what it was like when the wheels really felt like they were falling off. And I don't, you know, I don't bring this up to sensationalize it, but I also know you didn't write about it to sensationalize it. You talk about, you know, some of the violence that makes me very emotional, some of the violence that you used against yourself in your, you know, in a, I mean, this was. was, you know, a very desperate and not a, this wasn't a constitutional thing that was happening, but you describe, you know, one particular breakdown and there was a way you said it, I think you were throwing your body about. And, you know, you were being very, I mean, it's, it's rage. You know, there's a certain level of depression that, you know, almost feels like the beginning of psychosis, where, as you said, you feel like you're losing your mind. And, you know, I remember

when I was younger, you know, I would sometimes just look into the mirror and I would be crying and I barely recognized myself. It was like I, it was such a, you know, a dissociation from the person, you know, that was in there. And when you describe that, I was like, wow, people don't usually talk about that level that we often go to. But I really, I commend you and I think it's really, it's really important, especially, you know, for those of us who see you as this beautiful icon and this like empowered, amazing, powerful, you know, force in media for you to say, like, this is what it looked like, and I'm not the only one. You know, it was so important for me to be as descriptive about all the things I went through as I possibly could to normalize it. You know, because I think

anybody with any of these issues, you think you're the only one. You're the only one who is behaving in that way. And do you know what? as humans we are so unique and so wonderful and so different but there is so much about us where we are so the same you know we need the same things we go through so many of the same emotions and you know and i i'm not shamed i'm not ashamed of the time i was i was oh my gosh and it's hatred isn't it it's stealth hatred and it's this the one thing that i often talk about now is the discipline of not being cruel to yourself because people, and obviously my experience is being a woman, and I think a lot of women do this to themselves, we berate ourselves, we put ourselves down,

constantly, you know, we're not smart enough, we're not funny enough, we're not pretty enough, we're not thin enough, we're not successful enough, all of these things. And it's bullshit because we are enough. And the minute we start going, you know, because don't get me wrong. Of course I have that voice that goes, why do you that, do that stupid, oh, you know, and I do. But I turn myself off and I go, hey, you know what? I hear you, but you're not being very helpful right now. And it's taken years.

It's taken me years to go, you know, none of us celebrate what we've achieved. You know, okay, I'm a spice girl. I've done these ridiculously incredible things. But you know what? Some days for me, getting out of bed was the biggest achievement. You know, so we just need to applaud what we deem as the small things sometimes. It's incredible. what we're capable of. I kind of can't believe when I read the pages of this book, I got through

that. That's my proudest achievement that I was able to heal enough to want to tell everybody what happened to me. So hopefully it can maybe help people that it might be happening to them or even stop it happening to other people. I knew I picked the right spice. I knew I did. I knew from that fucking ponytail that she was my woman. I want you to speak a little bit to, if you can, the things that you went through in your mind, the things that you experienced, the criticism you received, you know, on a global level. I mean, global. Like anyone can take a shot at you and, you know, have it published anywhere, meaning like,

that's the level that you were living at. And I'd like you to speak to the fact that even though this happened to you in the public eye, the things that you are describing can happen to any human. Any human, I would argue in modern Western culture. I mean, any human can go through the depths of this kind of self-hatred, depression. It is not because you were a public figure that this happened. That placed you in a situation that, you know, if you had genetic predisposition to a certain way of thinking,

you had it, you know, multiple times multiplied. But can you speak a little about how your book is not necessarily supposed to inspire people who are part of girl bands that are globally famous and how to deal with it? It's really about like just the human experience. Yeah, absolutely. And I think I also wanted it to kind of just lift the lid a little bit. I think celebrity culture has, you know, where I live. anyway, has kind of gone nuts.

And I look at people, you know, obviously everything changes, everything evolves. And now we have so many, you know, we call reality stars or influences and people who are famous with kind of no profession, you know? They're famous for being famous. Yeah. And I'm like, that is really puzzling to me because I'm like, if it wasn't for the passion I have to perform, then you can have the famous bit back, you know, because that's like the worst bit. You know, I mean, it's a double-edged sword because of course we love to be revered and adored

and put on pedestals and all those things. Of course our ego loves that. But if I didn't have the music, the performance, the connection with people, I don't think I'd want the other bit. And yeah, I found that puzzling and I wonder how healthy it is. So it concerns me, I think as well because it can be gained so quickly. I think especially with like the reality side of things. There are certain shows where somebody one day can be working in what we would deem a regular job. And then the next day that everybody knows who they are when they're walking down the street. And I just think, whoa, you know, we we had time to kind of process and get our heads on that and have expectations of that.

But when it happens quite literally overnight sometimes with people, I think, how do you deal with that? So, yeah, I just wanted people to realize it's not always all it's cracked up to be. And nothing is all one thing. You know, it is amazing and wonderful and incredible. And it's hard and awful and annoying. How old is your daughter now? She's 13. 13.

I have a just 14-year-old son and also a 17-year-old. I'm curious. I mean, there's so many things I could ask about that. But what do you see when you kind of look at her and think about, your particular experience? Well, I look at her and, you know, she said something to me, which I show in the book when she was very little, she said, Mommy, I chose you.

And I just thought, whoa, I like that. And sometimes, you know, because I'm filled with guilt. You know, I have a very strong Catholic side in my family. I don't know whether it's Catholic guilt or just part of my personality. but I sometimes feel guilty for bringing her into the world because, you know, I'm her mom and I'm famous and people point at her and go, oh, her mom's the famous one when she's at school sometimes

and it's a real irritation to her. But if there was anybody on this planet who was equipped to deal with that, it's her. She's amazing. She is my teacher. You know, as much as I'm here to lead the way and show her and form her as a person, And I've learned so much from her that I never expected I would.

And yeah, I just look at her and I just think, wow. I mean, half the time I think, bah, I want to wring your neck. That's a pretty good percentage. Wow. I wanted to ask you one last thing. You know, it's an historic time. The queen died. And we have, you know, a new king that has ascended.

And I do think it's, it is important to acknowledge. how significant the spice squirrels were in particular to the United Kingdom. You know, Beatlemania occurred at a very different time, you know, not only in music history, but in our history. You know, people got to know them because they were on television in America and it was, you know, that invasion. But, you know, the, the preciousness, you know, of the significance of the spice girls is an enormously significant thing in particular in the United Kingdom. I wonder if you can speak a little bit to the specialness of, you know, the spice girls in terms of the phenomenon of the United Kingdom and its love and really need for you. To lose the queen, it still feels quite

surreal. And I think the reason for that being, I've never known, you know, another monarch. My mom has never known another monarch. I think my mum was a baby, you know, in the coronation. So yeah, so the whole country feels weird and you're right. There are such, people have very different opinions and, you know, things have changed a lot. But at the time when the spice girls rose to fame, we had this kind of kinship. And it all started because of that wonderful thing where if you tell a spice girl not to do something, they will go ahead and do it. And no one never seems to learn this. You know, this mistake keeps being repeated. But there's a lot of protocol when you meet dignitary, when you meet royalty. And the first time we met Prince Charles,

a certain member of the band gave him a little pat on the bottom. And there was quite a lot of lipstick left on his face. Now, none of that should ever happen. So we fast forward to meeting the Queen. Wait, wait, hold on a second. Were you told, do not pat him on the bottom. Do not leave lipstick on his cheek? It wasn't that explicit. Okay, got it. But is it like, I mean, I want to know because this is like a dream of mine. I'm very, very interested in the monarchy.

Like, is it like act like a lady? Like, I mean, is it like, you know, always look them in the eye, like curtsy. Like, what are you told? Okay. So you have to wait to be spoken to. Oh. And it's like a bad boyfriend. Like any of the second you notice.

Yeah. It's so funny. So, and I think this, I mean, I don't even take it in because I just goes. you know, in one ear and out of the other. Because I think there's, if they speak to, if there's certain things, if certain things are said, you answer in certain ways,

you know, there's different ways to refer to them. And then you, you curtsy and all of these things. I mean, um, but I, it was definitely,

I think, you know, you don't touch them if they, you know, shake your hands. So I think touching the butts may be going a little bit too far. Got it. But it was, but it was,

it was such a moment. And like me, being like one of the Shia T, more reserved members of the band, was like, I was dying inside, right? So like Jerry and Melby, who are obviously the most outspoken and courageous members of the band were breaking goal protocol. And at the time, I was like, oh, now I'm like, I'm so glad they did that.

You know, it was so, I'm so proud of them. I'm so happy to be a part of that. And now, you know, we work with the Prince's Trust, which is a brilliant charity. It really supports young people in the UK. And we often will meet Prince Charles, you know, whether it's an award shows or charity events. And so there'll always be these little lineups. And it's nice because we have this little thing and there'll be a little, a little wink and, you know, a cheeky reminisce to what happened.

But when we met the Queen, we were really nervous because we thought we were going to get told that. I was going to say, off with their heads. Did you imagine? What were you doing with my son? But, you know, God bless her. She was very gracious and also had a sense of humor. So yeah, we never got in trouble. Unbelievable. The book is the sporty one. It has been really so much fun to talk to you. And I just, I wish you all the best. Where can people find you if they would like to find you in terms of your music and all the other things you do? I'm in all the places, social media, Melanie C. Music, all over Spotify. I think I've made eight albums now. I kind of lose count. But I've been, yeah,

DJing continuing to make music, doing a bit of theater. I just love to perform. Thank you so much. Really a pleasure to get to talk to you. Thank you. Thank you. Lovely to talk to you. I'm looking over at you, Valerie, because we made the right choice with our favorite spice. And I have tremendous respect for all of the other spices. If they would like to come on and talk, happy to do that. I'd love that. But it's interesting that the spice girl that always felt to me like I'd want to sit down and talk for an hour with is definitely Melsie. And it's so funny because the whole time I was speaking to her, I was like kind of morphing her with what she looked like as a spice girl. Like I kept picturing like if she pulled her hair up, which she would still

pretty much. I mean, she looks amazing. But you know, she's she's older now. She looks like a woman, you know, and back then she was a young woman and they went by, you know, girls. But just thinking of her as a mom and it's really so neat and I wondered does she always wear track suits but I was embarrassed to ask her like I'm sure she wears other things here she's wearing like a little I think they call it a jumper she's wearing a little white jumper with like a collared shirt anyway I really really enjoyed that I can't wait to tell Jonathan all about it and um yeah I'm I don't know if I know her solo work and now I'm curious to hear I had no idea she was in musical theater I really thought here's what I should say

I thought they just found five pretty girls and put them together and that none of them even knew how to sing. I literally, that's what I thought. And not because I don't like women or girl bands, but I was in college and it was just like a thing. And when I saw them, I was like, oh, that's a great-looking band. And they have all these different looks. But I didn't know that, like, they each had musical lives. And I just, I learned a lot today. And, yeah, she talked about some really hard stuff that I hope people got a lot out of.

I know that I did. I got chills several times. follow us at Biolic Breakdown on Instagram and I think that's it for now from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have we'll see you next time It's my and Beialyx Breakdown

She's gonna break it down for you She's got a neuroscience PhD or two One fiction And now she's gonna break down I'm break it down