Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Natasha Leggero: Parenting at the End of the World

Episode Date: January 17, 2023

Natasha Leggero (actress, writer, comedian, author of The World Deserves My Children) opens up about how she arrived to her unique parenting journey later in life and provides an honest approach to parenting and "geriatric" pregnancy. She discusses the impact of her father leaving the family at an early age before he married her mom’s best friend, and what it was like to help raise her younger siblings as a child herself. Natasha reveals what she wishes more people knew about the egg-freezing process, merging her life as a career woman with caring for a child, and the importance of finding the right partner to parent with. Mayim and Natasha compare parenting styles and consider the challenges of parenting in the face of environmental panic. They discuss reasons some might not want to have children, why kids crave structure, and why we shouldn’t condition children with fear. Natasha Leggero's Book, The World Deserves My Children: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-World-Deserves-My-Children/Natasha-Leggero/9781982137076 Natasha Leggero & Moshe Kasher's Podcast, The Endless Honeymoon Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-endless-honeymoon-podcast/id1471202833 BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nobody really knows what they're doing. You know, even these moms I follow on Instagram, these people with PhDs and early child care education, and they, you know, they're always like doing these two cameras, telling you the three steps to, you know, how to handle when your child's having a meltdown. And sometimes they'll even call my husband, and I'm like, okay, honey, let's try what Dr. Rachel says.

Okay, now we're going to have to do these three steps, and then we do the three steps, and it doesn't work. And it's just like, these people don't know what they're doing. either. Nobody knows. It's Miami-Biolic's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. Hi, I'm I'm Mayamiolyc and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to. I am flying solo today. My partner Jonathan Cohen is not here today,

but we're going to be breaking down. Does the world deserve our children? And to speak to that is Natasha Legerro who wrote, The World Deserves My Children, a very, very funny set of essays on her experience parenting. She has about a five-year-old. And Natasha, if you don't know, is an accomplished actress, writer, and stand-up comic. She is in development on a show called Buffalo Tens at Fox that she's going to write, executive produce, and star in. She currently hosts the Endless Honeymoon Podcast with her husband, who's also a comedian,

who we have had on the breakdown, Mosha Casher. She also created executive-produced and starred in the Comedy Central hit show Another Period. She also hosted the competition cooking show, Rat in the Kitchen. She's also an actress. She's done a bunch of stuff. Her stand-up is really, really hilarious. It's observational and largely satirical. And what we're going to talk about today is sort of how she arrived at parenting at a point

where she was named Geriatric. And her book discusses a lot about the process of becoming pregnant later into your 30s. And it's a very, very honest approach to parenting and really the whole process of pregnancy and how she and her partner arrived at all of their decisions. And she's super funny. And we have a lot of interesting conversations that I'm so excited to share with you about how I'm basically the antithesis to a lot of the things she talks about in her book, but how we can still get along. And there's also a lot of places that we agree. So really hope you enjoy Natasha Lagerro. Natasha, welcome to the breakdown.

Break it down. It's really, really nice to have you here. I have followed your career for many years and very excited to speak to you. My co-pilot Jonathan, who sits there, is not here. He is sorry to miss this as well because he also has heard me talking about you for years. No.

Yes. And he, I will speak for him because he's not here. He is even more of a crunchy, Anola hippie parent than I am. So I was very excited to talk to you, but I was like, what would happen if it's him and me on this podcast with you? And then I was like, I don't know if he could control himself. So that's not why he's not here.

But we're very excited to get to have you on our podcast. And the book that you just wrote is the world, the title is funny. The world deserves my children. As I said to you before we formally started recording, if all you did was publish this photo of you that's on the cover and then the photo of you that's on the back that would literally be Dianu, as we say, because you are a very stylish person.

It's one of the things that I really love about the way you present yourself. And especially in a book all about parenting, you're in a stunning gown, for those of you who are listening and not looking. You're in a stunning gown in what looks like most people's kitchens when they have a toddler.

And I believe this is your real child. child on the floor, correct? It is, yes. And that actually, we shot that during like the height of COVID and that day my nanny quit because I had too many people in the house. So every time someone compliments that picture, I'm like, oh good, it was worth losing my nanny over. Well, it is absolutely hilarious. And the picture on the back is you in a different gorgeous gown. And your child, who also has fantastic hair is literally spraying what looks like a painful, painful water hose directly into your gorgeous eyeball. And it's just, it's, it's also just another really beautiful portrait of what

parenting is actually like. And so I just wanted to tell you, I love the photos, first of all. This book is a lot more than I, um, than I was prepared for, meaning I know you are a hilarious person. I've seen your stand up. I've gotten to see you live. The time that I saw you live was at a benefit for our synagogue. And my favorite thing about you was that you held your really nice pocketbook, the whole set. And I was like, she either really wants to leave or that's just her shtick. And you were like in a really cool, like, vintage oversized coat. And you just like had your purse. And I was like, that's really baller. That's awesome. You know, it's like, what am I going to do? Leave it in the green room with a bunch of dudes or, you know, take it with me. And then also I can leave

right after my set. I can actually make a beeline from the stage to my car to move on to a party. And what struck me and I do go to a, I would say, a pretty liberal, open-minded, progressive kind of synagogue, and this was a benefit, but you held no punches back. You did a really awesome, hilarious, very self-aware, but very sharp set for a group of people that may have, I mean, some people may have been people who didn't know your comedy. And I just thought it was so cool. That seems to be sort of part of your brand as a comedian. You are very, you kind of, you go all the way, if not mostly all of the way.

Is this always what you sort of set out to do when you started in stand up? Well, I mean, everyone has like a different origin story. And for me, I was in New York and I ended up getting a degree in theater criticism. Because that was just the BA that the state school that I went to Hunter College offered. They didn't offer a BFA. So I got this Bachelor of Arts in Theater Criticism. And then when I moved and I wanted to be an actress and then when I moved to L.A., I just found that I just started critiquing the city and critiquing society.

And I worked as a waitress. And I would critique all the women who said they wanted to be actresses who would come into the bar. And they would be like, I'm going to be an act. Like, just like everyone just felt so cut off from their bodies. And I just thought like, you know, I would meet these girls who wanted to be actresses who had never even heard the word vaudeville before. Like I was just like as a New Yorker appalled by everything Hollywood. And so I feel like I kind of used my theater criticism skills to critique Hollywood in some way. And then I just started standing up on stage and talking and making fun of the girls who would come into the whiskey bar where I worked and making fun of the people I'd see at auditions.

and, you know, just sort of making fun of everything. And I didn't really know that that was a job someone could have. I'm a very big kind of connoisseur, as it were, of stand-up comedy, meaning I love to watch all the specials people have on all the different platforms. And I started getting into stand-up comedy, meaning watching, not doing, after a really bad breakup many, many years ago. And I was like, I think that I just need something to laugh at. I don't want to think too much.

I just need to, like, laugh. And so that's when I really started exploring the world of stand-up comedy. And we've had Eliza Schlesinger on a couple times. And, you know, you are one of those women who I hope it's okay to group with women like that, who are critical of women without it being its own assault on being a woman. And I wonder sort of, what is your approach to sort of walking that fine line between being, you know, your own kind of strong and empowering? and like fill in whatever other, you know, word you want there,

being your own kind of strong woman while also being able to point out that there are certain things about the female experience that many people can be ridiculous about. Yeah, I mean, I guess I don't really look at it from a gender point of view too much, but it's just like things that annoy me. And I have to say, recently, it's really been more about men being annoying. So in your book, And I guess that's sort of what made me think of it.

So in your book, is that a dog or a child? Sorry, I have three elderly dogs that are, you know, you might hear them coughing. That's totally. So they're really hard to keep completely silent. That's totally fine. So what your book is a series of, I don't really, I mean, they are essays, but they're also, they're kind of, they each stand alone, but obviously they all go together. And a lot of what you sort of tackle in, I don't mean to sound like a writer like, in your characteristic, you know, unapologetic way, is a lot of aspects, though, specifically of kind of our culture surrounding, you know, pregnancy, labor, birth, and then kind of the child rearing process, which, you know, as you talk about in your book, your family has a very long and specific history with the way many of us were taught to be women, which is like have a lot of children and sort of like,

be someone's slave, but put a smile on your face until you can't take it and then you explode. So the decision to sort of write this book, besides the fact that the world does deserve your children, and we needed a book for you to explain it because it's very funny and really lovely how you do it. What was sort of the decision to sort of write from that perspective? Specifically as like the person who gets pregnant bears children and, you know, in our culture is still responsible for raising them even if we are the breadwinner. Well, you know, I I have like an interesting journey to becoming a mom. Like I had never really thought about being a mom.

I was always a career person. And then when I turned 38 on a whim, I decided to freeze my eggs. And, you know, then I met Moshe. And by the way, my therapist, he would always call it a situational breeder. So he's like, if this right situation presents itself, I could see you procreating. And I was like, yeah, that's exactly right. So then once I met Mosha, I deemed him worthy to, you know, blast his load. I don't know the name of the medical procedure exactly, but, you know, to all of my eggs,

he would do that to them. And then we created all these embryos, stuck them up there. We got four. Two died when we checked for, you know, genetic disorders. And then I put one up and it died. And then the last one is my daughter. Wow. So I had this kid and, you know, a baby, and I really didn't have many instincts.

I was 43 by the time I had her, but I knew that Moshe and I would be good parents. And I just felt like there was all these things that I was experiencing that I wanted to write about that I hadn't, you know, I hadn't heard a lot of people talking about like the whole egg freezing process. And there's so many hard decisions to make while you're doing it. Like, do you, when do you defrost them? Do you keep trying to use your regular eggs? Do IUI's work? You know, people will try to talk you into all these different things to take your money and, you know, and you become so vulnerable and desperate during this stage. And then when I had the baby finally, you know, by the grace of God, I mean, we barely had it. And then all the things like breastfeeding, like I wanted to stop breastfeeding. It was like keeping me home in a way that was like depressing me. And, you know, that was something I wanted to write about. And, you know, having people help you care for your child. How is a woman supposed to go to work?

People don't want to admit that they have nannies, but like I can't continue my career. And there was just a geriatric pregnancy. Why am I being called geriatric in my 30s? It's just there was just so many aspects of parenting at the end of the world during environmental panic that I really wanted to write about. And also just really get the word out. Like I know people know about egg freezing, but you know, really knowing when the cutoff is, like I was told it was 38 to really get the most that you could.

but this is a game changer for women because we now have two extra decades in our peak career earning years, our peak finding a partner years, our peak finding ourselves years. And I just think my mom had me at 23 with three kids and I had my kid 20 years later. And it's kind of amazing. And people will say, oh, yeah, but you'll be elderly when she's in high school. I'm like, well, you know what? Who cares? I feel good.

I still look like I'm 30. And, you know, now I have money to have people help me, too. My NBialx Breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine. Drink more water. There's no real data.

There's no game plan. This has happened to me many, many times, especially on the Perryman. menopause journey. That's why we're fascinated by what superpower is doing. They send a licensed professional to your home or you can visit a nearby lab. One simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers. That's way more than you usually get. It unlocks a true understanding of your body. Their app has detailed information on heart, liver, thyroid hormones, metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, even environmental toxins. From disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog or simply optimizing your gym game, superpower is the most comprehensive and advanced

system out there. I've been super tired of constantly guessing or just trying to read articles online about what to do for health. Superpower gives you an actionable health plan based on personal results. It's a real game changer. Plus, they have an on-demand clinician team to answer questions. Supplement or prescription suggestions can be directly bought through superpower so you don't have to go anywhere else. They also have nutritional guidance, tips for lifestyle and behavioral adjustments. You even get your true biological age that you can track over time. Superpower used to cost $499.99 for the full experience, which is much more affordable than anything else out there. Make this the year you stop guessing about your health with superpower. Superpower. Not only did

Superpower reduce their price to just $199, but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional $20 off with the code break. Head to superpower.com. Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention my ambiotics breakdown to help support the show. What I also really appreciated and enjoyed about the book, you know, obviously you may or may not know. You know, I'm a very, very other end of the spectrum. You know, I'm like a super hippie. And like, I didn't even have an ultrasound with my second. And he was like born in the next room.

Yeah, he was born in the next room. Like I was alone until pushing. Like I'm super that level. I like ate the placenta, the whole bit. And I'm also a lactation. I'm that lady. You talk about that lady. I'm that lady.

I'm like, oh. You cross state lines so you don't have to have an epidural? Well, no, I gave birth at home. We don't have an option for an epidural. It was just me over there. Really? Yeah. Oh, my God.

I did. I did. I did your whole book. And I was like, oh, this is very different. And also, I'm a lactation educator counselor. And so, you know, the stuff. I'm all the things. But what I really.

liked was that you don't come off as defensive and you really don't come off as judgmental of people who do it different. I think you made a couple comments about me eating the placenta. You didn't know it was me. I ate my placenta. I mean, come on. 98% of people in Los Angeles eat their placenta. But no, but I really want to say that like I really appreciated that you are allowed as a woman with autonomy to do whatever you decide is best for you and your family. And you really present it like that. And I don't feel like you were self-righteous about it because I was nervous. Sometimes people are, you know?

But just like I don't need to denigrate your positions to support mine or to feel like I did the right thing, I really appreciated that you also didn't feel the need to denigrate my positions or, you know, whoever I am to support yours. And the fact is, like, you know, I'm trained. in neuroscience. Like I love talking about human development. It's like one of my favorite things to do. But also as a lactation person, what we always say is if it's not working for the mom, it's not working for the family, you know? And I think that's true of a lot of aspects of parenting. You don't have to white knuckle it through whatever it is. And everyone's going to come from it

from different perspectives. And if you were to say to me like, I want to learn everything I can about human development and then you want to make your decision, that's totally fine. And some people are like, this is my decision. Just like, deal with it. I wonder if, you know, you've done a lot of press for the book and I'm sure you will continue to. Have you gotten any sort of like, I know that you can handle it because you're much stronger than I was. Like, I would just cry when people criticized me. But have you gotten pushback that felt a little bit like, ugh, like get out of my face? Well, you know, the truth is it's a comedy book and I really wanted to just write comedic essays about these subjects that I hadn't heard a lot of people talk.

about, but first and foremost, it's comedic. And I think that what I really kind of came to during the writing of it is that nobody really knows what they're doing. You know, even these moms I follow on Instagram, these people with PhDs and early child care education and they, you know, they're always like doing these two cameras telling you the three steps to, you know, how to handle when your child's having a meltdown. And sometimes they'll even call my husband and I'm like, Okay, honey, let's try what Dr. Rachel says. Okay, now we're going to have to do these three steps, and then we do the three steps, and it doesn't work. And it's just like, these people don't know what they're doing either.

Nobody knows. And, you know, of course I'm trying to like have my daughter, you know, put on her own shoes. She's five. She knows how to put on her own shoes. But if I sit there and wait for her to put on her own shoes like they tell me to, then I, that I'm late. You know, a lot of these, like, a lot of this advice that all these professional moms are giving you presuppose that you have nothing else to do but parent.

Right. Yeah. So I'm just saying, like, nobody really knows what they're doing. And sometimes, like, I do have to bribe my kid. You know, when people are like, oh, don't bribe your child. There's better ways to get her to do something. Okay, well, show me. You're totally right.

And I think what it is is that, like, the family system is so dynamic and complicated. that there's really not one way to know how to handle, let's say, a tantrum in even two different houses, much less 2,000 different houses or 2 million different houses. And I remember when I was having, just like name a problem, you know, like whether it was like feeding or sleeping or walking or, I mean, my kid didn't want to put his shoes on until he was like maybe 13 and even that. It was like a struggle. Literally my children, like my younger one, he's like, Moshekashut wears vans to synagogue. I can wear vans forever.

I was like, that's true. Anyway, but, you know, when I would take a problem to, you know, let's say my La Lecce League leader or the person who was kind of mentoring me, you know, in all things parenting, you know, I would give an example of what was going on. And she would be like, well, what did you do three years ago? Did you start the process of blah, blah, blah? And I'm like, no. She'd be like, well, that's kind of sometimes that's why you get where you are. And I'm like, this is not fair. That I'm like, how do I make them eat this piece of broccoli? and you're telling me that if I didn't start, they're never going to eat broccoli. And that's like the impossibility, I think, of a lot of the situation of being a parent. And I think you're exactly right. And I really, I appreciate you reminding us because sometimes we forget, you are a comedian. You are a storyteller. And the book is very, very funny. And one of the neat things about kind of the world today, at least for us viewers and fans,

of people like you, is we don't just get to see you do comedy or watch you do specials. Like, you and Moshe have a podcast. Like, there are windows into your life and sort of the way you interact that really kind of flesh out more of the persona that is who you are. The thing that I kind of wanted to talk about a little bit in the book is while there's a really healthy dose of like comedy, Natasha and, you know, a lot of sort of the fun and the playfulness, there's also a tremendous amount of, like, heart and truth. And the way you talk about your childhood, for example, it's very straightforward. And in some cases, it is very funny.

But you decided also to give us, like, an even deeper part of yourself than we may get, if we listen to your podcast or if we kind of follow your career. Did you always know you were going to talk about kind of your childhood specifically? Or did you feel like it was something that was necessary? Or did it feel like, oh, this is going to, this chapter or these chapters, are going to feel a little bit more like me actually showing more about me. Well, you know, I worked with a great editor at Simon & Schuster and, you know, we would talk and she would kind of like tell me things that she would think would be interesting and then I would work on writing about it. But also, you know, when you write a book, it's like, it's such a different

experience than stand-up. Like stand-up is all about economy and being succinct and how can I get to the funniest thing in the quickest amount of time and laughs, purport. minute. Whereas like when you're writing a book, you know, for me it was more about like expanding, like almost like an accordion or something, you know? So how do I expand these stories and, you know, even little things that would happen to me like, I remember my dentist was like, as soon as I gave birth, he was like, you need to have another kid. Asap, one child is not a family. And like, I remember his fingers were in my mouth. And then I remember then, but just by writing about that, remembered my gynecologist who called me geriatric had his fingers up me. And he was telling,

he was mad at me because I didn't, I was looking at another, I was talking to another fertility doctor because, you know, you're so lost during this fertility journey. And he had his fingers up me and was like, you need to pick a doctor. And I just remember like these two doctors with their, with their limbs in my orifices. It's just like, how did I never like put these two things together before like what is this these men telling me what to do with my body with while they have like their fingers inside of me i just you know so you start to like put things together and you know even writing about my childhood like things that i had never really realized so it was it was definitely interesting and fun to really expand you know the the the depth and breadth of what i usually

talk about and you know still kind of filter the comedic lens through it so yes it was and And I'm glad that you that you felt it had heart. I definitely did a pass after I wrote a lot of the stuff of like, okay, well, my husband's going to read this. So I better be nice to him. My daughter's going to read this one day. So I want to make sure I'm not being disparaging in any way because, you know, my husband, Mocha, he's always telling me,

you need to stop telling everybody they need to have a kid. But really, it's been like such an amazing experience for me. And I truly can't imagine my life without it. And I'm so happy I did it. That being said, I think if you think you can skip it, then you should because it's obviously so much work. And there's a lot of, you know, you degrade yourself on a daily basis. I'm always finding myself on my knees soaked in piss or shit. I don't know.

It's like there's always food. But, you know, it's definitely worth it. You get to live with this angel or these angels that don't know who Trump is. I don't know. Maybe it's just her age. but it's definitely been very sweet so far, and I'm on my fifth year. Chelsea Handler, whose quote is on the front of your book, she says, by far, the funniest book I've ever read about parenting. I follow her, and she also has been on the podcast,

and I really, really love her, and I especially love when she talks about not having kids, because I think she... I feel like my book is helping her, like, have something to react to. No, exactly. Well, so I saw, she posted the other day, it was her, I think she was like in bed with a joint, like about to light up a joint. And what it said, and what it said was kind of, you know, basically what I tell people. Because, you know, because I've written books about being a parent, you know, I wrote a book about our kind of family's journey and attachment parenting. It's called Beyond the Sling. Also Simon and Schuster.

Wait, hold on. Are you, so your attachment parenting. We did attachment parenting. I see the look in your eye. I see it. Your eyes just went like, I've got. a whole bit about this bitch. No, you know, that's like where you wear your child, right? Well, you're right, there's like seven bees, right? It's like birth, yeah, it's all the things. Yeah, we bed

shared, we bed shared, like meaning shared safely. We shared a sleeping surface. I did natural birth. I did breastfeeding on demand and I I nursed for like six and a half years straight. What? Yes.

What are you? My nana? Six and a half a year? Natasha, I'm your nana. Anyway, but what I will say is a lot of people say to me like, go, how I want to talk about I have kids? Like, should I have kids? And this is a great question.

But what Chelsea says a lot and what I tell people, even though I've had them, love them. And I never was like a baby person. I never thought about what my wedding would be like or like what my kids are like, what I would name them. I was like, no, I'm just busy like recovery from the trauma of childhood. and trying to be a woman in this insane world. Like I didn't think about it.

And of course, I met someone and we dated and we decided to combine our genetics and create, you know, these two little souls. But what Chelsea Handler says is absolutely true. If you enjoy doing what you want, when you want, however you want, having children might not be for you. It's very true. And it's, I, but I still enjoy doing all those things. I just don't get to the dude. Well, a friend of mine who loves to go to Disneyland with her husband, which this was about 20 years ago, I met my first human who liked to go to Disneyland with her husband. And I was like, what?

There's adults that I just didn't know. And because we like rarely went. I was not raised with a lot of money. We did not go to Disneyland. Like, that wasn't a thing. But she literally said, she's like, one of the reasons that I decided I don't. want kids because like I want to go to Disneyland whenever I want. I just want to like take off work. And I was like, oh, that's a thing, both the Disneyland and the reason for not having kids.

But that level of work and sort of commitment I think is really important for people to hear about, especially from someone who, as you said, you're like, I got help, I get help, I use the money I have to get the support that I want so that I can keep working. And still, it is still hard because you are tethered. You know, I once said to my kids, it's like, you know, once they're born, they're like connected by like an, you know, an invisible string because wherever they are,

it's like you know, and mine are 14 and 17 now, and it's like, part of me is always there. Like, I believe, you know, no matter what you believe, like psychically, spiritually, whatever, like, part of me is attached wherever they are in the world. And Fred at the time, he was young, he was maybe, I don't know, he's maybe seven or eight or something. And he's like, it must be a very long string.

Yes, Fred. It's long and also invisible, but maybe you missed that part. But I think that that's something that I really, I appreciate again, that like this is, we've had Mommy Wars for so long. Like when you were still enjoying your life before you became geriatric and those of us who, well, I'm older than you also. And, you know, the Mommy Wars was like a real thing of like everything was competitive and it's still that way, I'm sure. But even before the Internet became a thing, you know, whose kid walked first and who said the alphabet first and who this and who that. I'm like, you know what my kids did first? They smiled. They didn't walk. They didn't crawl. They just sat and smiled like the tubs a lard they were. They were happy and that was it.

They clapped hands. That's all they needed to do. But the notion that someone like Chelsea Handler, you know, has a quote on the front of a book really celebrating this notion of parenting. But it is, it's a testament to sort of the way you presented, you know, and I think also just the approachability of kind of how you talk about it. So you mentioned your daughter is about five, and I can't help it. You know, in your book, you say, I remember my dad approaching me one day when I was around five with his dry cleaning over his back. Makes me a little emotional, Natasha. He leaned down to

shake my hand and he said, see you later, kid. I'm leaving. I must have felt this wasn't normal behavior for him, as he usually didn't tell me when he was coming and going. So I said where. He said he didn't know and also he didn't know when he was coming back. I shrugged said goodbye and went back to playing. Your dad was your dad was 23 at the time. Is that right? Yeah. He was a kid. I know. I know. It's like it is weird to think of age like how our parents generation experienced it and how we are. And I do think that's why I'm like so, you know, really want to champion this technology because it's like women, we need more women in the workforce. We need more women in positions of power.

We need more women artists and more women modeling all of these things for the women of the future. And I think that a big way to do that is to spend your 30s and 40s if you want to being in the world as much as men are. You were the first of three. Is that correct? Yeah, I was the oldest. So I was kind of like the mom. And so I would do, Moshe said whenever I talk about my childhood, I sound like Cinderella.

But like, you know, I would do the ironing and pack the lunches and make the dinner and babysit my two younger brothers. And, you know, I think that I was just so over that that I was never really focused on wanting my own kids,

you know, because I kind of helped my mom because she was a single working parent without any money. That's not to say that everyone, I mean, I don't think, I think Chelsea Handler is brilliant

and is better. for our society if she keeps doing what she's doing. Like skiing topless while smoking a cigarette. Exactly. And we can be jealous of her and she can present that side. And, you know, I am jealous of it. But, you know, I just went a different path. It was so hard.

Freezing these eggs, defrosting them, watching them all kind of disintegrate one by one. And then just having that last embryo that actually took that was like a very low grade. It was like they grade them and this one was a C. And, you know, just the fact that she exists now, it's, you know, I have to believe that she wanted to be here on some level. And, you know, and I do think that we can't just let the idiots have kids,

even though we're about to be in the face of environmental collapse that, you know, we've unprecedented coastal change. you know, inequality, racial injustice, the robots taking over. I mean, there's so many things that they're to be afraid of. But again, we want to create. I hope that we're creating this generation of people who at the very least are like learning to be kind and, you know, let people decide what they want to do. Like the idea that we want to control what other people do is just baffling to me.

And that's why I didn't want to write it in some didactic fashion where it's like, you know, or prescriptive like this is what everyone should do. Because I don't know. I don't think these women on Instagram with PhDs really know. I mean, do we have any proof of what this generation of kids is going to be like where we just acknowledge every one of their feelings at all times or whatever they're telling us to do? I mean, I have a friend. So do you prescribe to authoritarian? No, because that's what my mom was. my way or the highway or it's like my way but like firmly and gently with love or are you like

permissive like whatever. Right. So I really, I love that part of your book because a lot of people assume that attachment parents are are permissive parents or passive parents. I'm much more in line with sort of the way you do things, which I think is also really good to know that it doesn't necessarily matter your decisions about scheduling a C-section or giving birth, you know, out there in my living room. we still get to keep making decisions that are the best for our family no matter what. I did not want to necessarily raise children who got to decide every emotion I should have, meaning, you know, I know. And for people who parent this way, they often do it very consciously.

Like, I don't want my children to experience any, no, ever. So the world is open to them. And if they want to take a shit in my friend's living room, like right in the middle of the floor, they're going to do it. And I literally, I once had someone who like brought her kids potty and just like put it in the middle of the room. And I was like, hey, maybe it could go in the other room. No, we don't want to teach her that it's not safe for her to have her.

I'm like, no, I'm pretty sure she can own her body and her loveliness in a potty in the next room. It doesn't, like we're right here with the carrots and the hummus. Like, it's okay. So, yeah, I definitely, I mean, a lot of people describe me as a very strict parent. And, you know, I definitely, I do have high expectations. my feeling is like I will listen to what my children feel that they need to say, but it doesn't determine my life. So the fact that also like my children are like,

we had Japanese two days ago. I don't want sushi. Like I just. And, you know, they are very tired of hearing when I was a kid, you know, like if we ate out once a month for most years of my life, like you ate what they order. Nobody was asking me where I want to eat. What?

Are you kidding me? Like, so there's a- I tried to give my daughter leftovers the other day. She goes, mom, I like something new every night. I was like, okay. I mean, it's really hard. And honestly, saying no is like almost like a spiritual practice for me. Because it goes so against my instincts. And I don't want to say no to her or deny her of anything. But it actually changed for me. I watched the Amy Winehouse documentary. I don't know if you've seen it. It's really great. but whatever, I know there's a couple, but whatever is the most recent one that's out. And one thing the mom, Amy's mom said that just I can't let go of is she's like, we could never say no to Amy. And the mom was just like her whole life, you just couldn't say no to her. And I was like, oh, is this?

I mean, not that like, oh, your kid's going to become a black dad. It made me think like, God, it's just so counter to my being to like deny her of anything, especially when it's so easy for me to give it to her. But I'm really trying and my husband's good at like reinforcing it and helping me remember to say no. You know, it's not that I don't want to like shower her with love, but we have these friends and they were coming, they came over to our house, they have four kids.

And they're very permissive. And the son went, the four-year-old son went to hit the dog with a wrench. No. And the mom, the mom jumps in, takes the wrench and said, you're so good at building. Stop it. I swear to God. Stop it now.

I swear I'm not lying. And so like that is her practice is just love at all like just like flowing love. Okay. So here's the thing. I have I have respect for finding the positive in every negative. And I do believe fundamentally children are trying to get their needs met, even if they're doing them in ways that are disruptive, which means like we miss the sick. signal, usually like three days ago, a week ago, you know, whatever. But what I wanted to say is that the style of parenting, even that you are doing, which is, I think in many cases, a lot different

from the way many of us were parented, meaning we are listening, we are naming feelings, you know, but what it is, and you kind of alluded to this before, if you would like to parent and have your children, forgive me, not turn into monsters that no one else wants to play with, date, marry, or work with, they do need, they need structure. They crave structure. And I don't mean like running it like a military. I mean children feel safe when they know someone's in charge, when they know that a grownup knows what's going on. And this kind of parenting, you hit it on the head. It takes a lot of time because while I, the one thing that we do know longitudinally is like hitting your kids is not really good. It's not good in the long term. Like every academy, every hippie, every conservative

person who is on a medical board, every Western doctor and psychiatrist and psychologist knows it is damaging and complicated in ways that are really, really widely known and researched that we don't want to use that kind of harsh discipline. That being said, the real. The real reason that people do it is because it works quickly because you are conditioning, you're conditioning with pain and with fear. And that kind of conditioning, it takes one incident. And for those of us who may have grown up in situations where we experience this, one specific incident will often for many children stop a behavior. However, because we know that that's not the way that we'd like to approach things.

The way to listen to a child, have their feelings, yes, I understand. It takes a lot of words and it takes a long time. And what I remember is when I was at the stage that you were describing with things like, oh my God, just get dressed.

And I didn't have very, I'll be honest, I had very easygoing lumpy children who were like, just dress me and whatever. Like, just put it on, like, it's fine. But for children who do want to assert independence like that, yeah, you have to like add 30 freaking minutes to your day. And no one wants to do that so that they can change outfits three times. Also, I have boys. I'm told that there are gender differences, but like jury's still out. That's sarcasm. But some kids, some kids will want to get, and it was like,

just the notion of like, I just want to leave the house when I'm ready to leave the house. Why? Because you have, oh, I understand you didn't get time to fully, you know, kiss every to all goodbye. whatever it is, it takes a lot of time. And you're right, we have other things to do. But that doesn't mean that you can't sometimes do it, you know, and sometimes take that time. And sometimes you trade off with your spouse. And that's why I really was a situational breeder. Like, I knew that I didn't want to do it alone because I saw my mom do it alone. And that just seemed like it was just out of the realm of possibility for me. And so that's why finding a good partner and spending the time to find the right person and not being freaked out at third. that you have to have babies because people are telling you you're geriatric when you go get your

eggs checked, you know, and being able to just make sure you meet the right person, the right partner. Well, I hope that you will write a book in, you know, however many years when you get to parimenopause, because that is where I live. And the number of euphemisms that my doctors have to use to describe the things that go on in the female body. And what's funny is my OB, who I like very much, she's my age. So anything I, like, when I make self-deprecating jokes about my, like, dying, desiccated, you know, horrible last attempts at creating life, she always reminds me like, I'm your age, I'm just right here, I'm right in the room, and I am living your experience as well. But the number of euphemisms, you know, for this stage of life also is like, it feels like

the next great insult, you know, in the life of a female. Because, You know, some women, I don't know who, some women just produce numerous cysts as their eggs are like, let's try one last time, Ma'am. We can do it. Find a virile suitor. He could be 70. Just find anyone. So anyway, I really do hope you write a book when you get to that phase of life. Did your mom ever remarry or was it just you guys and her? It was us and her until I went to college and then she married someone. But I talk about it in the book, we did have like a sibling that was kind of a problem child. And he really kind of overtook the family dynamic a lot. So I think that that kind of made it hard for her to find someone. Nobody wants to like, it's hard enough to have like three, you know, teenage kids. But one of them is like, you know, shaving their head and getting kicked out of every

school in the city, you know, I don't think that was easy for her to, you know, find a partner. Your dad remarried a woman who had, who had been your mom's friend. Yes, he, he left my mom and then he went and married her best friend. Like, like soon? Yeah, from what I gather, no one really wants to talk about it, but I do believe that maybe they were vying for his attention before I was born. and then maybe my mom won it first. And then he started dating younger women.

And then he told me he ran out of money. So he had to go back to women his own age. So he actually passed this year. But he did have a woman who was his age. So that's good. But yes, it was traumatic, mostly for my mom because I felt bad for her. Mm-hmm. And also, you know, all of those experiences kind of contribute to then the stories

that we tell, you know, about our life or our relationships or becoming a parent. And, you know, besides sort of even just like the way we grow up, you know, I did want to give a special shout out because you mentioned it in the book a couple times and you even mentioned it today, you know, kind of what we carry, you know, is not just our personal stuff, but you mentioned like the environmental burden, for example. You know, I do hear a lot of people who are in the kind of throes of like, should I have kids, should I not. Many people, at least in my anecdotal experience, do report like what are we bringing our kids into? And I think, you know, the environmental one is, it's very painful.

You know, I talk to my teenagers about it. And like I've literally, I mean, just in my weaker moments, been like, I just want to like collectively apologize that no one listened to the hippies in the 60s who said we are killing the planet. We should not be at war. We should not be doing the things we're doing to the planet, to children. to women, to people of color, and to countries all over the, we didn't listen to the hippies. I literally, like, say this to my kids.

But the title of your book, The World Deserves My Children, which, you know, is kind of like tongue and cheek, but when I read it and when you get to the end, it's like, it really touched me because there's something, there's something really special about the journey that you take us on, which I know is just a fraction of the journey that you went on. But I'm curious if given all these things, like forget about politics, like even just the environment. What, what, like, how do you see it? And I know, again, it's tongue and cheek, like, because also, like, I think you are so awesome. I want more of you in the world. But even if you get a kid who's a lot more like motion, like, that's also great. But how do you

frame that in terms of like, look what we're bringing children into? I mean, that's really challenging. And I don't exactly have the answers. I do look to her teachers sometimes to talk about it. And, you know, you know, like, for example, example, Thanksgiving. They talked about the Wampanog, I think that's how you pronounce it, Indians in the first Thanksgiving who were there sitting on the floor and the Indians were, or the, you know, the people who came here from Europe were pretending to be nice to them until, you know, they roofied them and, you know, helped them all die off. And so it's like, how do we, you know, how do we do it?

So the teachers would read books about it and then she would have questions about it. And I would just try to, you know, say we're trying to learn from these mistakes and make the world a better place. And, you know, I was also in researching with this book. There are, you know, places where people have kids not just for this generation, but for five generations in the future. And so if you think of the world like that, you know, I think that just just letting them know, well, you know, I think it's also letting them fall in love with the world and fall in love with nature and, you know, really trying to, when you talk about the environment, to me, the best thing you can do is just really have your kid outdoors as much as possible and loving life and the earth. and then hopefully with luck, they'll want to help protect it and they'll want to help, they'll want to be a kind person and a person who isn't bigoted in any way and who, you know, helps the earth.

Like even now my daughter, like she gets so mad when she sees graffiti on trees or even anywhere. But, you know, you'll see it sometimes in the forest in L.A. And people just kind of spray paint on it. And, you know, she's always kind of upset by that. And, you know, I think just like talking about it and how can we preserve the earth. I mean, it's probably very naive. But, you know, like I said, we can't just let them have kids.

We want people to champion the right, the things that you want to have live on in the world, which hopefully is kindness and protection and treating people with respect. The line is blurry between being naive and being hopeful, you know. And I think for those of us who do choose to go on this specific journey, which is just one way that we, you know, kind of impact future generations, meaning, you know, there's a lot of other ways that I like to be of service to kids, to humans, you know. But for those of us who do choose to take this journey, and there are many ways to become a parent, as you know, some people don't carry their babies.

Some people adopt their babies. Like, there's a million ways. And they're all, they're all the same in that that's how you become a parent. You know, like, I'm not going to say that, like, there's, I'm not going to get into, you know, the biological details. That being said, the people who choose to usher children this way, it's a very complicated joy, you know, because also as, as I'm sure you've already seen, you know, as they get older, it becomes, you know, in some ways easier, You're practically speaking, right? You're not, like, wiping their butts for them. Like, that needed to end.

So, you know, I also, if you want to know the depth of my hippie and happy to send you information about this, we did elimination communication. My children did not wear diapers. They used a potty. What? Yes. It's like a whole thing. It's a thing.

They didn't use diapers? Right. We used them as backups, but they used a potty. By 12 months, they were little undies and they would sign. They couldn't speak, but they could sign when they had to go potty. And I remember when we went to our first Mommy and Me class, my older one was still exclusively breastfed. They didn't eat solids till well after they were 12 months.

So I said to the teacher, I was like, he doesn't walk yet. Because he was also just, again, I had these like lumbering, like, just happy, smiley, clappy babies who just like didn't want to walk. I said he doesn't walk. He can't eat solid foods at snack time. He doesn't speak, but he's going to sign when he needs to go potty. And when that happens, I'm going to need to leave the circle. And she's like, you are insane.

This was the Waldorf teacher. was like, I'm sorry, what? And we made a believer out of her. And I talk about this in my book, in Beyond the Sling, because my then-husband was like, this is insane. And I don't even want to talk about it with you. It's so insane. And I did it by myself.

And by 12 months when our first son signed every time he had to go potty and was wearing the cutest little undies, which we had to order from Japan because they make a tiny in Japan, little tiny undies. My then husband was like, all right, you convinced me. And with our second one, we did it from the start. and same trajectory. It was really a fascinating experience. Anyway, I mean, that's amazing,

and it sounds like you really have instincts, and you knew what you wanted to do, and I think it's cool that you did all that because it's your kid. I'm sure your kids are good because of it. Well, look, they're good in the way they needed to be because we were their parents, and this is, you know, the situation that they were in.

But, you know, but that being said, it's a level of commitment to, like, oh, my gosh, they're now independent, beings who I have to hope that everything I did makes them a person that people want to hang out with. Or, you know, when I see my older son, like, see an older person with a cane trying to get into a door at a restaurant, and he on his own goes and opens that door. I'm like, holy Toledo. Like, I was never the person to be like, go do this. Say, please, say thank you, because I am not that kind of parent either. And, like, that's not my thing. I tried to teach by modeling, but it's a huge

responsibility. So when you say, like, do I have an answer? Like, no, I do the best I can. And I apologize to them promptly when I mess up, which I do all the time. And I remind them all the time, I've never been your parent at this age. Like, I don't know what I'm doing today because I've never done it before. Like, we've never existed in the universe, like all the molecules where they are. We've never had this day. And like, I may not handle it the way. Like, I literally, I've taught my children to have lowered expectations of me. Because, like, one time we were supposed to, like, fly up north. I had a speaking engagement.

All the planes got canceled because of freaking rain in San Francisco. And I was like, we're going to rent a car and drive. And they were like, we're going to do what? And I was like, mama has to work tonight in San Francisco. Everybody just, like, get on board, you know? And it's like, we lower our expectations before any trip. I'm like, does everyone remember? Anything could go wrong.

And I might yell at a mean TSA person. And I'm doing my best. We want them to make the world a better place because they're in it. And I think that if that can be the undertone of what we're trying to do and what we're trying to do with ourselves, too, if we're trying to make the world a better place in any way, you know, I think that that's just the goal. I do want to touch on your relationship. You are a comedian who's married to a comedian. You're married to Moshe Kasha. You know, when I got to the end of the book and I actually, I reached out to Moshe,

You know, when I read the things you say about him, I cried. Really? I said he's a good plumber? You know what? You're going to cool down right now. You're going to cool down. Because, no, you did a very, very specific thing in acknowledging your husband. And you also, you converted to Judaism to be part, you know, of a family.

And we are very glad to have you. you're one of my favorite people that's part of the tribe. But this book in a lot of ways is it's a love letter kind of to your relationship in many ways. And the fact that you end, at least that's how I saw it. But the words that you write about him literally, it brought me to tears. And I reached out to him to say like, wow, can you just kind of speak a little bit about what it's been like to be on a journey with someone who at least to my knowledge really looks like your partner and playmate, you know? And I admire that so much. Is that sort of what this journey has been like

for you guys? You know, it's obviously, I never really thought like, oh, two comedians raising a kid, but it definitely like, it's, I mean, because like someone brought their kid over and I was like making a joke and I told them we're all out of food and they don't get to eat. I was just, I thought it was funny because I'd say stuff like that to my kid. And the three-year-old just starts bawling and heaving. and I'm like, oh my God, our child just has a totally different view of the world because we're constantly making jokes, you know, so hopefully that doesn't torment her too much. But, you know, it's been a long journey. And I think COVID was no joke and that really made our relationship a little bit more of a

challenge. I think COVID was great for the family life because I was really planning on outsourcing at least 50 hours a week, you know, that I was just with my kid then. I mean, I was planning on working and having someone help me, but COVID, you know, we just were home eating breakfast, lunch, and dinner at the dining room table together for two and a half years. But actually, our podcast has been really helpful, the endless honeymoon podcast, because Mosha, sometimes I will just bring him something that I haven't told him that I'm going to talk about, and we can just kind of crowdsource it.

And often almost, I'd say 90% of the time, people are like, Moshe, you're crazy. Natasha is correct. Like, he was using my toothbrush for, like, I'd say most of the pandemic, just because he, he didn't want to, like, go find his. And, like, he's kind of scatterbrained, so his stuff's always everywhere. And after a while, I'm like, why have my toothbrush always soaking wet when I grab it? And then I ask him about it. He's like, oh, yeah, we could just share toothbrushes.

And then I brought that to the podcast. And I would say across the board unanimously in the comments, in people would write in missives about this. he's completely wrong. He was so humiliated by this that he has not only stopped using my toothbrush. He is just afraid. He doesn't even like go near my toothpaste, my toothbrush. He went out and bought like this whole string of toothbrushes so we always has a new one. But, you know, just being able to like have these different ways that I can like get my way has been very effective in our relationship.

Because, you know, it's not just jokes. It's like, yes, you know, comedians are dark people and they have paths and, you know, they have their own. And, you know, just having a roommate is challenging, as I'm sure you know, like with husbands and family. And, you know, it's very challenging. And the woman picks up so much of the pieces of that. There's so much silent labor, as they call it. I mean, I don't even think my husband knows we have a calendar. but we're you know I'm trying to stick to it but it's just like not he doesn't know what time or

school's done he doesn't know where the measuring cups are I mean I it's it's mind boggling but you know in addition to having this hilarious household you've got to deal with all the other things that people have to deal with in these situations one more question you've said a lot of really funny and awesome things about converting to to Judaism and, you know, in your kind of dedication to Moshe, you say you're worth giving up Christmas for. Are there things? Why not to bring that up, Ma'am? I'm already having second thoughts about that. I'm curious, you know, I haven't had the opportunity to ask anyone who's, you know, a Jew by choice, this.

Do you experience, like, anti-Semitism from an even different lens as a Jew by choice? Well, I will say that, first of all, I want to say, like, one of the, I have a chapter about this in the book. And I really did feel that for me, like, everyone talks about all these different aspects of childhood and having a family and, you know, all these, I read like every book about, you know, how to know when you're ovulating, how to, how to parent, how, you know, is, do you bribe?

Do you do? There's just so many different ways to parent. And then I just realized no one ever talked about like how to be a, family because I don't really feel like I had a lot of modeling for that. And as soon as I met Moshe and we started, you know, doing the holidays, I was like, oh, and just observing all the other families we were friends with. I was like, oh, Shabbat, even just Shabbat, it really does kind of teach you how to be a family. And it's this, this spiritual feeling from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. I heard it described as like spirituality in time.

And so just by like observing this time, this 24 hour period where you try to turn off your phone and spend time with the family and bless your child and make a dinner together. And, you know, it's, we did that like once a year in my family, maybe on Christmas. And this is like a weekly holiday. And I just feel like it really helped me learn how to be and have a family. family that feels like a close family. So that is what I really like about it. And in terms of like, for me, it's always been about like picking what works for me. And I love celebrating Shabbat and, you know, raising our kid, Jewish. And I still do Buddhist meditation. And, you know, I'm,

I, I've always kind of viewed religion as windows onto the same thing. And, you know, I try to teach my daughter that and also tell her, but the lens that we look through is Jewish and other people celebrate this and that, but, you know, just to try to be as inclusive as I can. In terms of anti-Semitism, I think that because I'm kind of almost looking at it in this way, I don't know that I've experienced that. My kids are old enough that they are seeing things, you know, on Instagram. They're seeing things on TikTok. You know, I've had my kids coming home and saying, why do people say this about us? Like, what is this? There are swastikas. What do I do? Um, you know, and I just, yeah, that's like a thing. And I guess I was just curious, you know, because when you hear about all the, you know, all the stuff

in the media and like, you know, um, you know, meaning like when Jewish people speak up, you know, and say, oh, anti-Semitism is wrong. Like I, I also am just fascinated by people like, you know, like you who are Jews by choice, who didn't grow up with this like, you know, burden and yoke of the Holocaust, like so recent, but are grouped in, you know, with this kind of collective, you know, national conversation. It's just very interesting to me. Well, I think that my, the way that I approach it is very different than how Moshe approaches it. And I'm probably not approaching it right or with, I don't know. I just feel that I don't want to give it energy, so I don't really honor it.

And, you know, I don't, I don't want to give it oxygen, that kind of, but I, but that's like saying you don't want to give oxygen to talking about what we did to Native Americans or what we did to black people. So, you know, I, I, I don't, I haven't figured it all out yet, but I do know that like the ramblings of a madman, I'm not going to respond. I guess because I never really like to respond to crazy people because if you don't share reality, how are you, it's just always going to clash and you're always going to be upset by it. But this is something that I'm learning about and hopefully, hopefully we can just figure it out, figure out how to not have all the hate, Maam. I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. Well, hopefully our children are part of the answer. Yeah.

The book is The World Deserves My Children, Natasha Legerro. Such a real pleasure to talk to you. Love this book. And I'm just eager to continue following you and seeing what you do next. And also what your little angel continues to bring into the world. I will close this out here and say from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's my and biolics breakdown.

She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience. PhD or two One fix you one and now she's gonna bring