Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Nikki Blonsky: Go Be You

Episode Date: March 1, 2022

Nikki Blonsky (Hairspray, Huge series, Bosco film) stops by to discuss the importance of seeing oneself represented accurately in the media, body type stigmas, and her coming our journey. She opens up about her start as a singer, the moment she first fell in love with Hairspray and how it changed her life. Nikki shares the tension she faced in the entertainment industry from not fitting the mold, the origins and evolution of her self-confidence, and how she feels about the notion of radical self-acceptance. Mayim considers self-awareness and situations where we may not always present our true selves. BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We had done the shoot. They had picked one bathing suit for me. I was like, that could go horribly wrong. And my best friend calls me, and he goes, where are you? And I said, I'm in Times Square. And he said, what street? And I told him.

And he said, well, look up. There I was. And all my glory in that bathing suit. I remember calling my mother, face-sadming her. And I said, well, it's not Sports Illustrated. I think if I would have seen that when I was younger, maybe I would have gone to the beach a little bit more. It's my ambialic's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you because you know she knows a thing or two.

And now she's going to break down. It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down. Hi, I'm Mayamialik and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break down the things that make us break down. Before we introduce our guest, Nikki Blonsky, an actress best known for her starring role as Tracy in the 2007 film version of Hairspray. You kind of introduced her.

Among other things. I would like to introduce my favorite celebrity crush, Jonathan Cohen. Oh, hello, my name. Nice to see you again. How are you, Jonathan? I'm doing pretty well. I mean, if I'm... What's wrong?

I'm just finding some inconsistencies here. What? You kind of said, before I introduce our guest. Well, I'm going to introduce her in more detail, but I wanted to check in with you first. Oh, that's good. I'm here. I'm president. Not president. Pretty excited about a little section we have at the end of this episode. We do a little mini-mim. It's a mini breakdown of myam. Yeah, it talks a little bit about you putting your foot in your mouth, which is a bit of a stretch.

Not very flexible like I used to be. All right. Well, people should follow us on Instagram, all those good things. if you want to see what we look like. We're actually not in matching outfits today. We gave it up. Well, that feels sad. And these episodes air sometimes not exactly in order. Lately we have been. Lately we have been.

I would like to just give a quick shout out. Anyone who has listened to the Cori Taylor episode... Follow us on YouTube if you want to see what we look like. Sorry. Or you can follow my thought pattern, which is if you haven't listened to the Corey Taylor episode yet, go back and check out the end of it where we talk about supernatural activity.

And take a screenshot of your favorite Miami expression. I actually rewatched that episode for the edit, and I went through and I did screenshots of all the wicked facial reactions you had, and I marked them for gifts. It was phenomenal. I don't think other people think I'm as entertaining as you do. Just a big cartoon character over here. Very entertaining. Now, can I properly introduce Nikki Blonski?

Speaking of entertaining. Speaking of entertaining, Nikki Blonski earned several prestigious nominations, including a Golden Globe nomination, which is a very, very big deal for her role in Hairspray. She's also done other things. She was in an ABC Family original series called Huge, about a group of teens who go to a weight loss camp. And she also launched her own podcast during the pandemic called Nikki Nights. In addition, I want to just mention, she's got a really, really awesome project that she is part of. It is called Bosco.

And Bosco is a true life story about a federal prison break by a man, Quante Adams, who's determined to break free to be at the birth of his daughter. And with the help of her character, we follow him on his journey to freedom. An unbelievable cast, Vivica Fox, and Snoop Dogg is part of the soundtrack. It sounds really unbelievable. Very, very happy for her to be part of this. It sounds like a really incredible project. She's also starring in Farful Folong, an animated children's series.

Yeah, she's had an incredible job. journey, started her life as a singer, and the story of how she kind of discovered hairspray, as it were, and how it sort of changed her life is a really good place to get started. What we don't cover that I was actually amazed at is these days it's so rare that someone unknown gets a role like that. Oh, I mean, her story and also like, well, she'll tell it, but here's like a little mini-spoiler. she found out she got the role in Hairspray, which is like a huge, like six months, I think, of auditions.

They told her, like, while filming her live at her job scooping ice cream, like a crew showed up. So real. Like, so that they could, like, get the reaction, which is like such a cool social media, like thing. Surreal. Yeah. So she just had this literal, like,

I was born to play this role and one day I'll get to. And indeed, she just, like, kept auditioning, auditioning. And then when they, when she found out it was going to be a movie, she got the part. an amazing story. Amazing story. Takeaway of this is if you say over and over and over, you were born to do something, we should practice our intentionality. Oh.

What should we be born to do? Talk to Nikki Blonsky. Let's do it. Nikki Blonsky, welcome. Break it down. Nikki Blonsky, it is so nice to welcome you to our breakdown. Thank you for being here. Oh my gosh.

Thank you so much for having me. This is so exciting. This is like the highlight of my year. I mean, we haven't even started. You're batting a house. I mean like last year and this year, all like combined. Like you, I love you. We are very, very happy to talk to you.

And you're from Long Island, correct? I am. Great neck. Great neck, yes. I have family in Great Neck. It's a thing. You have family and great neck? Of course I do.

Please. Oh my gosh. We can talk. Yeah, I don't want to like name them on camera because maybe they're like, we want to pretend we're not related to my MBI. Do you hear how she talks? It's like a surprise. So I have family in Greatneck, no.

Right. I mean, those are the people who got out of the Bronx. You know, they went to... My grandmother, her family is from the Bronx. Yeah, but Great Neck is not the Bronx. Okay. Okay. Anyway.

He's from Toronto. It's a different place where they keep us. Yes. Yes. It's kind of think of like Saskatchewan and like all of that. You know, just it's all different areas. Right. But Greatneck is its own little.

neck of the words, as it were, right? But you live in Los Angeles, correct? I do. You are very well known for hairspray, which was redone, as it were. It was rebooted in 2007, right? Yes. And for people who don't know about hairspray, this is a very, very iconic, it's a very beloved, beloved musical.

and you got to work with some incredible people and you played the lead. Like getting this role as an actor person is like, I mean, I think it sounds like a dream. But tell us kind of how that came about. How old were you? I don't mean to make you do this math. In 2007, how old were you?

Okay, so in 2007, I will tell you how it started, my love for hairspray. When I was 15, I had a neighbor, an older neighbor who was very like, well-versed in the theater and the ballet and she would every birthday take me to a ballet or an opera or a Broadway show to expose me to culture and she knew that I love music and so for my 15th birthday she said there's new musical hairspray she took me and I was from the minute I heard oh oh oh oh I was

done sign sale delivered I'm yours and I remember sitting in that theater poking my mom because she was sitting next to me. I said, that's me. I can do that. And my mom was like, you told, my mom was like, shh, you told me never to talk in the theater. Be quiet. Because, you know, you never supposed to talk in the theater. So she's like, you're breaking your own rules. But I was just obsessed with Tracy. I fell in love with her. That was the first time I think I truly fell in love in my life because it was somebody who looked like me. who sang like me, who danced like me, who just had, like, love in their heart like me. And I just wanted everybody to be together.

And I was like, this is the most amazing musical ever. And I love it. And then when I was 16, I was a very avid buyer of backstage magazine. That's such a theater geek thing. I'm just laughing because it's like such a theater geek thing. Right. Yeah, exactly. This is before the app, though. So I would have to go to the train station on Thursdays and I would pick up my little backstage and I'd sit there at the kitchen table and I'd circle and, you know, do all my, you know, what could I? And it's, there was a casting call for hairsprin there. And I was like, oh, I'm going in. And I went in to Bernie Tulsi, which is like when you're going into, um, casting office. It's probably one of the most intimidating

ones. But it's super amazing because they've casted some of the best Broadway shows in the world. And I went in there and I went through three rounds of auditions, callbacks. They were like,

we love you. I was 16 at the time. And they looked to me. They said, we love you, but you're just too young. They said Tracy, you know, we can get somebody who's, you know, in their early 20s because we can cheat it from stage. And I said, okay. And I, you know, it was brokenhearted, of course.

And on my 17th birthday, I'm just, I just have one of these personalities where, like, when I'm really driven and persistent and I want something, I just keep going, you know, little by little. And I, on my 17th birthday, and went back on the website and it said, we're casting the movie. And I was like, oh, Mama, we're in. I was like, we, it said, don't send in any audition tapes. I sent in an audition tape. I mean, I went through six months of open calls.

This was my senior year of high school. I was 17th time. Getting ready for senior prom. Just doing my high school opera, which was Carmen. and just getting ready to, you know, go to Long Island University. I was just living the life of just, you know, a normal Long Island kid. And then all of a sudden they said, you know, we want to come to each of the four final girls' hometown to, you know, capture them in their natural habitat. I'm like, where do I live at the San Diego Zoo?

Like, okay. And so they said for you, we want to come to Coldstone because I had worked at a Coldstone for two years. The ice cream place where you slap it on the marble and you smear it around and you put it in the cone? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Whatever you want in there, Kit Katz, Emin's, Reeses,

we put it all in there. And it's a place where you can sing. They tip you to sing. Oh, I see. I was like, okay, perfect job for me. like, fine, I'll take it. And I had no idea that that night, they said, for you, we want to come to Coldstone. They came, and they came in with the whole camera crew.

And I was like, what's going on? And there were just so many people. And my teachers from high school came because they had let me class to audition. And I hadn't told any of my friends that I had auditioned. Because if I didn't get it, I didn't want to have to explain why. So they weren't there at the store. But my coworkers, my family, my teachers were. And they said, Nikki, we have a message for you.

Oh, my gosh. If you would, you know, we'd like you to watch it. And I said, okay. And I opened the laptop. And it was Adam Shankman, our director. And he looked really, really, really sad. And he goes, Hi, Nikki. It's Adam. He goes, I just want to tell you, honey, you did a great job. And it's you, honey. You got the part. And I felt like all the blood leave my body. I felt like I left my body. He's like, it's you, honey. You got the part. Go make yourself a big ice cream cone because you're going to be playing Tracy Turnblad. And I was just like, I started screaming.

fell off my chair and then the whole store my teachers crying, my parents screaming, crying. If you're not... My Ambialx breakdown is supported by superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office

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Like a theater person or in this kind of, you know, it's like this is such, it's such an enormous production, you know, hairspray, and it's very, very iconic. Ricky Lake played it when we were kids. So in 1988, Ricky Lake played this iconic role, and it was enormously significant. And I'm just going to read the description just so that people kind of know what this movie is. When Tracy, an overweight teen, auditions for a spot on a popular teen dance show, she beats out a spiteful Amber, or winning over Amber's boyfriend in the process. After meeting some black students at her school,

Tracy begins to push for more racial integration on the dance show. This gets her into trouble on many sides, especially with Amber's pushy parents. So in the 1988 version, it was like Debbie Harry and Sunny Bono and all these iconic people and obviously in the one that Nikki did, also iconic. But I want to talk a little bit about, you know, there's a lot of different ways that many people,

and women in particular, don't always feel, that we get to see a representation of who we are in the media. And so one of the really powerful things about Hairspray is that it is this lead character, and this is who she is. This is her body, her fabulousness, her personality. Like, it's not an apologetic movie. It's not a movie about trying to fix her body. So I'm actually curious, like, is that something that,

you know, you felt, gosh, this so particularly feels like it's resonant because of kind of the power of the piece, or was it more like it just felt so like a character that you wanted to play? It was a combination of both. It was a character that I knew. It felt like it was inside of me. It was like Tracy felt like a part of me. And I knew that the content and the social content and I knew that that story was just so imperative and needed to be out there. And Tracy is just, you know, the ultimate one to tell you the story through song and make you happy, but make you realize what's really going on in, you know, 1960s America. And it wasn't necessarily a great place for us then.

And now, as time goes on, we see. unfortunately history repeating itself and I feel like I'm extremely proud to have been a part of a movie like Harrispray because of that message because of that message of inclusivity and everybody being together everybody no matter race religion creed size shape nationality it doesn't matter we are all human we are all one we all bleed blood we all deserve to be love And I think that's what I saw in Tracy. And I have to say, I give all my credit to my parents because they never told me no once. I mean, you know, they, they knew that this would be a big undertaking if I did get it.

And they followed me through all the way through. Like my mom quit her job to go and be with me. Like they, it was, it was a magical experience. It really was. Here's a weird question. And, you know, I know, I think I would be annoyed if someone asked me. But, like, I really do feel like I want to ask this question. If you didn't, let's say you hadn't have gotten, you know, let's say you didn't get

hairspray, right? What, did you have, like, did you still want to, like, be in the industry? Was this something like, I want to make a name? and a place for myself, or was it more kind of focused on the hairspray thing and then your career kind of then, you know, was catapulted from that? I was always going to sing. That was no matter what. I was always going to sing somehow, somewhere, whether I was part of, you know, singing on my own,

trying to make it do solo albums. I was always going to, you know, audition for musicals. but I think her spirit was definitely, we all know the catapult that, you know, put me into the stratosphere. And I'm super thankful for it. But there are two sides to it for sure. Well, and I, you know, I completely,

like whatever your kind of comfort level is, you know, I'm a person who left the industry, you know, after working for a time. And, you know, I was gone for effectively 12 years and then I came back. And, you know, there's, a real kind of like push pull, you know, and kind of, I don't want to say a love, hate, because I feel like that's too strong, the hate part. But there's a lot of tension, you know, in our industry.

I think especially if you don't kind of fit the mold, you know, like there's less roles and there's, you know, in some ways, I mean, obviously less roles, this is just like math, you know, there's then less things out there. And especially if they're looking for a specific certain type, right? Like, you know, the Zoftig girl, you know, the, the plump girl or the, you know, whatever it is, there's often, I think, kind of more stereotyping done, right? Because there's, like, a certain way they want the chubby girl to act. Or like, you know, she also has to, and this is, I'm just saying, like, from my experience, like, you know, when they write a role a certain way, it's kind of like, oh, well, we need to feel sorry for her because she doesn't have a perfect body.

Can you make us feel more sorry for you? And it's like, wow, there's so many different kinds of humans, but it's true. The industry is trying to sometimes, you know, create a specific thing. So I'm curious kind of your experience with that. Oh, yeah, right after hairspray, they took me and put me on a shelf. They were like, we're just going to take you out when we need the happy plus size girl. And I was like, why are you doing that to me? Like, I could play so many more different roles. I could do so much more, like, let me, you know, let me audition for all these different roles give me the opportunity don't just you know just because i'm plump and happy and jolly you know doesn't mean i'm santa claus and you know i want to be you know no i'm an actor and i want to act

and it's like i felt that i was very much pigeonholed and put right right on a shelf and just still to this day sometimes pulled out just when they need to be you know like the happy go lucky, you know, happy, chunky friend next door. Well, and I think, and I don't know if this is a completely inappropriate thing to ask. Jonathan, you'll check me if it is. There's a lot of conversation kind of about who can play what roles, right? And I'm not trying to get political. I'm just saying these are, you're already looking skeptical, Jonathan.

These are conversations that are in, you know, kind of our culture right now. Does someone need to be gay to play a gay person? Does someone need to be straight to play a straight person? You know, it came up, there's a, what's it called? Jew face, they call it. If a Gentile plays a Jew or like. Cultural appropriation. Well, the question is, you know, cultural appropriation.

But also, like, when you're playing a part, like, it's kind of what you're cast for. But this is something interesting. I've told this story. I think I don't know if I've told this story here. I once auditioned for a part and I got very far along in this part. It was a TV show. So it was down to me and one. one other very talented woman.

And it was supposed to be a character and like the plot of the show was kind of like, you feel sorry for her. Like she's kind of like down on her luck and like young woman trying to like make it, you know. And while there are many reasons why I was not chosen for this part, I was quite thin at the time. I was younger and pre-children.

And I remember that one of the things that was said was we're having a hard time feeling sorry for you because you have a body that most people think is ideal. And I was like, that is so messed up on so many levels because having whatever body does not mean that you're happy or have no right to be sad. And the notion also that, you know, women whose bodies don't fit like that, it's like, oh, you know.

And so I guess the question that I wanted to, you know, pose really to both of you, is there a point at which, you know, I don't know what term to use, Zoftig women, juicy women. Thick. Thick women. Thick with two Cs, as my children would say. Is there a point at which actresses who are, let's say, thick, can be cast in roles that aren't written for thick women?

I mean, I would like to believe the answer is yes. I would love to hope and believe that as a culture and as a business, they say now, you know, in all of their breakdowns, we're dedicated to, you know, hiring everybody from all different backgrounds. And while that's wonderful, while you print that on a piece of paper, show up. Do what you say you're going to do. hire those people, hire those different people. Give them a chance. What do you think it is? I mean, I have my own opinions.

If you scan network television right now. Yes, I'm scanning network television in my head. There are definitely some rare shows that have a diverse male or female body types on them. But it is not the norm. Well, no. And then that person has to be like, that's like the plot. It's like about that. And they make, they tell you,

almost had a feel about your body. Right. That's what's weird. They're like, you're the plus size girl who doesn't really like your body and wants to lose weight. And I'm like, actually, I'm fine. But like the character, I get it. I'll play it for the character. But for me, like, you know, when I remember having a conversation with a producer one time and he was like, you know, your body, like, your body's fine.

Don't like you're you're fine and I'm like I know I am okay with my body It's you that's not okay with my body I said and that's that's something that you have to deal with because I'm not leaving this business anytime soon There is still this stigma of people with this certain body type have these characteristics Meaning people who are thin have good self-control and they are organized and they and the people who have a different body type right? are impulsive. I mean, there's still, I think we still have those notions. I'm laughing because we know a lot of skinny people who are like way off the deep end.

They're neurotic. He's like, I know skinny people have gone off the rails. What are you talking about? Did you always have like this amazing singing voice? Was that your experience? Like were you one of those kids who just, I mean, also we should mention, so your mother is Roman Catholic, your father is Jewish, right? So you have potential for singing. on both ends. Like, there's a lot of liturgical stuff in both of those religious traditions that

lends itself to learning to sing. Well, that's honestly where I got my start. Synagogue? Singing in church. My dad was Jewish. He never really practiced. He's Ashkenazi Jew. And then my mom is Roman Catholic. I went to Catholic school. And that's where I started singing, was in church on Sundays and in school. And, you know, but then I realized there was way more music than that. And my grandmother always had, she had this amazing, like, record player in the living room. And she would play all her Dean Martin and her Frank Sinatra and her Patsy Klein on there. And I just remember being like eight years old and her.

her teaching me had a jitterbug for the first time. Like, I've been singing since I'm three. It's been a passion. Like, once it started, I couldn't stop. I just, I loved it. And then at the age of eight, my mom approached the choir director at our church and was like, I think she needs private lessons. And he was actually an opera coach. So I studied opera for about three or four years classically before I started studied pop. Okay, so wait. So opera is a very special thing. What part are you? I'm a mezzo soprano. A mezzo soprano. The most famous

mezzo soprano is Carmen. That's the most famous role for It's like not a super high soprano? It's like a mid-range soprano. Yep, it's like right in between. It's like you can't get to the really crazy lyrical, coloratura, you know, high notes, but you can...

Not that you're trained in opera, but what would you... I am not trained in opera. So I am a liturgical Hebrew singer. Like, I mean, I sing, you know, Jewish liturgical stuff and like,

a cappella, you know, like, I was the musical director for the Jewish Acapella at UCLA when I was there. Well, that's awesome. I composed pieces for us. But no, it's a very different

kind of singing. And, you know, like, and that's not me singing in beaches. That's another, I think a grown woman, because to me it always sounded like a grown adult. I did not have a trained voice. I am a singer. And a lot of the publicity that I did for beaches was like going on talk shows and then being like, that wasn't you in the movie, but can you please show people you can sing? And I was like, okay. And like when I go to- So you want to do a track from beaches is what you're saying. No, I don't want to do a track from beaches. I did want to ask a little bit

about your kind of like body image. You know, when did you have the first awareness, let's say, that, you know, you had, let's say, a body type that was not kind of the norm, let's say, for the industry or were you always comfortable with your body? You seem to have a lot of self-confidence in some of the research that I've done on you. And this is like something that I am infamous for not having good self-confidence. So I would love to hear sort of how that, you know, how that evolved for you. It started pretty young, honestly. my family never made me feel ostracized or different for being plus size.

I was always a heavyset kid, you know. When I went to Catholic school, every year going to get my Catholic school uniform, those like, you know, horrible material. I was like, oh my gosh, I'd rather be plucking my eyelashes out one by one. Like, this is painful. I just kept singing. and I kept singing and I kept singing. And my family just supported me 150%.

Like they were just like, you know, it's one thing to sing. And like, for me, even if I'm having a stressful day or a tough day or whatever kind of day, I will just take an hour and just block everybody out and just sing. You just, wait, hold on. What do you sing? Adele. I sing a lot of Adele. I sing a lot of LP.

I sing, of course, you know, Celine always comes in. She's always on the playlist. And of course, Ed Sheeran. So this is like you, you're just like, you go to your room and you just sing. Yeah, I swear. My roommate hears me all the time.

I'm like, I'll see in a little bit and I just go in my room and I... So like some people will like smoke a joint. You just go and sing. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's, yeah. I just like, I open my windows so like the whole complex doesn't have to like, I crack it open.

So like the front of the street gets like the noise, not the rest of the complex of the apartment building. And I just sing my, you know, easy on me by Adele. I think we found our tune. Mine likes some Adele. That's a very hard song to sing. I do love Adele. If you start singing, she's going to join you.

No, she's just out of my range vocally, meaning like I need to transpose everything down like a step and a half when I try and sing my Adele. See, that was something, that's something I had always wanted to learn how to do is to read sheet music. Oh, so you're not a classically trained. Oh. It is the hardest thing in the world for me. So you just sing, you have a great ear. I learn everything by ear.

Oh, wow. Yeah. I mean, it was kind of crazy because high school, senior year, we were doing Carmen. And I was like, I was playing Carmen. The show before that was Sweeney Todd. And I played Mrs. Lovett. And my teacher, Dr. Pamela Levy, who is my mentor, shout her out all the time.

She's heaven on earth. And she just trained me every single day, note by note, word by word, all by ear. And I thank her so much for that. After Hairspray came out, you did other things. Yeah. And one of the projects you did was called Huge. Can you tell us about Huge? I did a series for ABC Family at the time.

That's what it was called. I think it's called free form now. It's all free form as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. And it was called Huge. It had an awesome cast, Gina Torres. It was really, really fun. It was about kids going to a weight loss summer camp.

And my character, Will. She went by Will, but her name was Willamina. And she was just against the grain. Like she did not want to be there. She packed like snacks and candy and would like sell them out of the bathroom stall. Like an entrepreneur. Yeah. Oh yeah.

She had like boxes of like, you know, snacks and tasty cakes like buried underneath, under in these secret like compartments. Like it was amazing. We had so much fun. It was a very, I want to say physically. bearing show for me. And also emotionally, because they didn't tell me that when the billboard was going up

and we had done the shoot and all the other kids were in the shoot with me and they did some solos of me. And we were all in bathing suits. They had picked one bathing suit for me. I was like, how do you have one bathing

suit for a plus size actress? I was like, that could go horribly wrong. horribly wrong. Like, no. So I brought just my, like, regular, like, black speedo just in case, like, my, like, you know, one piece. I was like, you can just mark out the speedo part.

Like, I'll wear it. But they were insistent on this teal bathing suit. Thank God it fit. But what I found what was interesting was segue to, I guess, about a month and a half. later, two months later, I'm in New York City, I'm doing press for something else, and my best friend calls me, and he goes, where are you? And I said, I'm in Times Square. And he said, what street? I told him. And he said, well, look up. And I looked up. And there I was. And all my glory in that bathing suit. And he goes round the corner. And I went around the corner.

and it was right there on that side too and I was like, oh my God. So what was your, so I just since obviously people can't necessarily see. So I'm looking at what you are describing. You're in a blue one piece, a sensible one piece. And it's actually, it's actually, I really love this picture.

There's just something about the way your hands are. Like you're kind of covering yourself, but also like it's like when anyone tries to cover themselves with, you know, it's like there's still a lot of you to see, you know, because you can only... But there's just... I just... There's a really sweet look on your face.

What was it about it that felt, you know, fill in the word? Upsetting, jarring, surprising. Did you expect that it wouldn't be a single image of you and that it would be a group? Was it the way your body looked or just the size, you know, of this poster of you? Oh, no. I was...

I mean, look, I knew that, you know, we took pictures and bathing suits of... they could be used for whenever, whenever the project's coming out. I did possibly expect other cast members to be in it with me, just because, you know, like, free form is such like a cast show, you know? Like, they have such cast, like, pretty little liars,

and I had all of those shows. So I kind of felt like they would put us all together, but they didn't. They went with just me. And it kind of made me feel like, okay, Hey, it almost added a little pressure to my shoulders for the show. Because I felt like, okay, this is the show. Like, this is my picture, is the representation of this show.

I have to live up to it now. And I don't want to let kids down who are overweight or who are maybe feeling things that I'm feeling or not feeling things. You know, it was a very, it was a confusing time. It was, I was very proud of it because I remember calling my mother face-sadming her and I said, well, it's not Sports Illustrated. And she was like, well, you're my baby and I'm proud of you. And I think for me, I think if I would have seen that when I was younger as a kid, somebody just being a little bit more, you know, comfortable in a bathing suit, maybe I would have gone to the beach a little bit more. That's a really kind of powerful component of this. Like, I can barely bring myself to try on a bathing suit in a dressing room in like a store.

So this is like one of those things that for many, many, many people, boys and girls and men and women, this is a very, very, it's a very vulnerable thing. Jonathan, since you're the resident male here behind a microphone, what's your feeling? Like, is there a level of being comfortable with your body where it's just like, I don't care, whatever, this is my body? or do, I mean, men have these thoughts, too. I mean, I think it depends on the situation. To be put up on a massive billboard in Times Square where you're like multiple stories, I think that is going to be nerve-wracking for pretty much anyone. And you're going to see yourself in a way that is like just unnatural.

It's unnatural to have, you don't, no one fits on a billboard of that size. I was just asking, though, about like, in general. Like when I see this, I have so much, it's not even like respect. It's like, I don't think I could legitimately like even be in character. Like, because that's the thing. You're in character. Like, it's clear. This is a character.

This is not, you know. But for me, like, I don't think I could, I could get out of my head enough to pose as a character. And like, I've had to do things on television. Like, I had to wear lingerie on the outside of my clothes, right? And that was like, it was, you know, there was like a scene where my character on Call Me Cat like tries on a thong. And it was like over a scro. So it was like, it was an attention. It was attention to a part of my body that, like, I'm not used to being like,

hey, everybody. But it was so hard. And I just, it's so, I just can't imagine. Like if we said to you, Jonathan, we're going to do a photo shoot, but you're just going to be in a bathing suit. No, well, I think getting photographed in that way would be a challenge. And then also I just think about like cultural differences where you go to other parts of the world and people are just in far more revealing beachwear. and that's just the way it is.

Right. Well, and also I think there's a lot, a lot different perception of what bodies should look like. You know, I always, like the first time that I went to Europe or even Canada, and you look at billboards

just for like toothpaste or deodorant, and the people look like real people. Like, it's so, it's such like an L.A. in particular and such an American thing that like, billboards for everything, everybody looks so polished and perfect. Like, that's a very U.S. thing. But in many places, like,

you can see ads with women, with cellulite or you know and it's like not and it's not because it's an ad for a product to make women feel okay about their cellulite it's just like a lady it's just like just somebody representing presenting presenting something right and moving on right that's right um speaking of sports illustrated speaking of you know swimsuit um photo shoots so there has been an an increase in plus size models and in particular, you know, some of it has trickled into like the Victoria's Secret world and Sports Illustrated, you know, really had a lot of firsts in this last handful of years with Hunter McGrady and with others.

And we had Hunter on, and it was a really funny episode, because she has this, like, radical self-acceptance, like, that I do not have. She was trying to convince Maim to stand in front. front of a mirror naked and I guess lavish self-love on her. Just like, that's what she said. She's like, Mayam, you're awesome. Kelly Clarkson also was like, Maya, you're so awesome. What's the problem? Well, the problem is my brain. But what Hunter McGrady in particular asked me to do was like literally, I mean, I totally forgot the naked part. I just thought even with clothes on that sounds impossible. And you're supposed to look at yourself and it's like radical self-acceptance. Like, I'm beautiful.

My cellulite is beautiful. My stretch marks are beautiful. My kidneys work so well. Well, I can appreciate parts of my body that, like, I can appreciate that, like, I've carried children. I have fed them. Like, my body's strong. I do taekwondo, like all these things. But having to look at my naked self and be like, all the things that I don't like, it's just a perception.

It's a lens. It's our culture. It's the patriarchy. Whatever it is. I can't imagine it. Do you stand in front of the mirror, Hunter McGrady style, and praise yourself is I think the question.

I heard a different word. Do you stand in front of the mirror and please yourself? That's what I heard. And I was like, no. Am I pleased when I look? First of all, I don't stand in front of the mirror naked. Like it's very rare.

I try to avoid it. mirrors even when fully clothed. Honestly, I use mirrors for my hair, my makeup, and like I, other than that, I have no use for them. I personally,

you know, people have always been like, you have this incredible self confidence, like you love who you are and you make me confident. And I'm like, thank you so much. That means a lot. But that doesn't mean that I don't have insecurities too. And so, no, I

I couldn't, I don't, I have no desire to stand in front of a mirror. And while I understand where Hunter's coming from and I give her all the props in the world, like go, go off on your bad self. But for me, I, I just, it's going to be, it's going to be hard pass. So many of us, you know, have had a big couple of years in terms of isolation, in terms of COVID, in terms of, you know, the kind of self-examination that I've done, this is just speaking for me. I don't, I'm not, I am in no way trying to, you know,

downplay the seriousness of the global pandemic, in no way trying to, you know, highlight the amazing things that happen when you're home. But I will say that the universe has forced a lot of us to sit with ourselves in ways that we kind of maybe hadn't before. you know, a lot of people in relationships realized, oh, there was a reason I liked going to work and taking four hours to commute a day. It's so that I didn't have to spend time with this person. Or some people are, I mean, I heard one therapist say he had more straight men question their sexuality

in the last two years than in his entire career as a therapist. You had a significant announcement that you made. Yeah, it was about three months in to the pandemic. And like three months of no men and you're like, yeah, I'm pretty good. I'm okay. Oh, it had been longer than that. I didn't want them around. Like, it had been way longer than that. I was like, no, I'm okay. And not that you're wonderful, sir. Um, but I just, you know, I, you know, I was gay and I. Did you always have an awareness that you were gay and it wasn't something you were public about until recently? Uh, I definitely had an awareness. I definitely. Um, um, Um, you know, I always say I knew there was something different about me. I just didn't know what because I spent so much time focusing on my career, focusing on my, like, getting to the next step, getting to the next step, getting to the next step.

And I found myself in relationships with men that were unsuccessful and I saw one of them was violent and just, horrible and I was not happy and I was like if this is dating I want to be alone like I would I make myself way happier than some guy who's going to curse me out and you know be horrible to me um and not all men are like that like my dad my brother I know so many incredible men I'm sure you are a wonderful gentleman I'm so sorry but the gentleman that I was choosing were just not you know up to par they weren't really good guys and I think it was because I really wasn't focused on my love life I was focused on my career I wanted to make it and then I would you know date and focus on that then when I had my first partner that's when I realized like mid 20s I was

like yeah I'm gay and and I held on to it for a few years my parents knew. And then one day I just called my brother up, him and his fiance. And I was like, can you guys come upstairs for a second? And they're like, yeah. And I was like, so tonight you're going to come see a car pick me up? And they're like, yeah. And I was like, I'm going on a date. They're like, and my brother's fiance, she's so sweet. She's like, oh, my God, I'm so excited. And I was like, yeah, well, it's with a girl. And they were like, oh, my. God. And like, the warm response I got from my baby brother. I mean, he's six years younger than me, and he's about a foot taller than me. And he just embraced me and just showed me so much love.

And I knew from that moment on, like, the love in my family for me and me for them would never change. and they accept me exactly as I am. I told my parents, they've, they're just, they're wonderful people, and they just want me to be happy. And my mom, I'm telling you, after hairspray, let me tell you, the gay cruises that I performed on, and you get to bring somebody with you, so I brought my mom. I mean, bringing your mother on a gay cruise,

Sounds like a hoot. Imagine that. And imagine getting in the elevator during leather night. I mean, that was a trip. But what I'm saying is they were incredibly supportive of me. And I made the decision that it was just time to come out. And, you know, I had always looked up to people like Melissa Etheridge and Billy Jean King and, you know, just wonderful women, Dot Marie Jones. and I was just like, God, if they can be out and be proud and be who they are, then I can too. And also, I had been telling my fans for the past however many years, be yourself, love yourself for who you are. And I wasn't doing that for myself. And so I was like, you're a hypocrite. Like I literally looked at myself and was like, you're a hypocrite.

You're telling people to love themselves and accept themselves. and just be who you are when you're not just being who you are. Just go be you, be gay. And, you know, and that's when I made a decision. And my team is amazing. And I was like, and we came out and that was that. And then the world knew. Yeah.

And also, like, then the world shut down. That's also, you know, very, very interesting to me that, like, that feels like the safest time to come out when it's like, Yeah. I'm coming out and also I can't date anyone right now because there's a pandemic, so I'll deal with it when the pandemic's over. Right. It's like the ground hug. That's right. I will say that my first girlfriend I ever had is the reason that I believe in true love. We didn't end up together. We probably won't ever be together again. But because she saw me for Nikki. And I think that's, I think that's. And I'm sure, Maia, you can relate to this. Like, when people see you for who you are rather than just like who you are as an actor or who you portray on TV. And, you know, and it's nice to just be cared for as that person.

So she definitely made me believe in true love. And now, you know, I'm just out here. My first true love is always going to be my family and my career. and then, you know, we'll see what happens. Amazing. Thank you so much for talking with us. It's been really, really nice getting to know you and such an interesting career path that you've had

and we'll make sure to tell everybody where they can find all of the good things about you. Thank you. Yeah, and there's one movie. There's a press release that just came out the other day. I'll let you know about it. It is my new movie. This is the first time I'm ever speaking about it.

it publicly. It's called Bosco. It is with Vivica A. Fox, Tyrese. We have DC Young Fly. We have Aubrey Joseph. We have Snoop Dog and 50 Cent are on the soundtrack. Oh, amazing. I'm like, oh, my God. I can't wait to listen to this soundtrack. I was, it was so cool. And it's a prison break movie. Is this a true story? It's a true story. It's a federal prison. in break by a man who is determined to break free to be at the birth of his daughter with the help of your character. We follow him on his journey to freedom. That sounds fascinating. And that is called Bosco. All right. Thank you so much, Nikki Blonski. It's really a pleasure to talk to you and we look forward to following your career and all the good things that you are doing. Thank you. Thank you so much.

I appreciate your time. Of course. Nikki Blonski. I mean, I could have talked to her just about what it was like to grow up Roman Catholic and Jewish. Go be gay. Go be gay. Well, I thought that was actually really an interesting, you know, an interesting kind of twist on like, you know, the authenticity that she wanted to express, you know, of having a platform, you know, that is so whatever, like body positive, you positive. Yeah. And then kind of like seeing that reflected in her own journey. I think there's lots of ways people don't be themselves.

Let's list all the ways that we're not ourselves. You were thinking that I was about to say there's lots of ways people don't just be gay. But that's not where I was going. No, I actually was doing some writing for some of the growth that I do. It was a writing assignment where you had to list situations when you kind of know that you're not being yourself. And I was like, there's not enough paper in the world. They don't know that you spend a lot of time asking yourself a lot of questions trying I spend most of my time in other people's heads.

Explain that. I spend a lot of time, like, worrying about how I come off and is that person okay, or did I do something, or did I say something? Like, I spent a lot of time in that kind of rumination. And it's not that I present myself as a phony person. That's not what I meant about, like, there's not enough paper in the world for the list of, but the kind of, like, vigilance that I have is such that I'm kind of like always clocking for like, what do you need? What do you need right now? Are you okay? Are you hungry?

You grumpy, you have to poop, you know? I'm picking up my phone. Don't get upset. When you pick up your phone, it means that you do not appreciate my friendship. That's what my am. It could mean that, or it could mean I'm looking up a reference. It could mean that I'm not engaging enough. Should I be more engaging?

Should I get all up in your face? We go through life. We're constantly trying to figure out what other people are thinking and feeling. This is an episode of Hidden Brain, the podcast which I quite like, and they're getting a little shout out here. but mental superpowers can sometimes lead us astray. I started listening to this and I was like, oh, it's actually an intrinsic trait of survival to read the cues around us and to see how people are reacting. I mean, if not, you're like a sociopath. Okay, that's one version of it.

So we're constantly reading and I'm looking at Scott, our engineer. He's looking at his phone. He's not interested. He's waiting to get out of here. No, but here's the thing. Here's the thing. He's like, how long is this episode going to be? No, but this is the thing.

And this is part of like, you could go back to your phone. No, but I think it's important that like, especially for me as like a person who lives on a stage, it's like it's very hard for me when I don't feel like I'm engaging people. Because I'm not clapping? It's not, no. Do you want us to clap for you right now? No.

So, and I take a little bit of offense at that because that's actually not my interest as a performance. It's not, I don't live for the applause. It's not about praise. It really is about like trying to connect and be important to someone. That made me sad. Why do it make you sad? Well, it makes me sad because it's like, you know, it's that, you know, I always say there's two kinds of actors, you know, there's actors that want the applause and then there's actors

that just so badly want to get it right, you know? And to me, there's not one better than the other. the actor who wants to be important. That's the... They get it right? Yeah. Well, those are two different things. No, not for me, not in the acting world.

Getting it right means I've made you happy and we move on. But that's different than important to me. Yeah, but what I'm saying is like my value has been validated. My talent is enough so that we move on instead of like, tell me how great I am. Yeah, it's not about that. I don't like that. No, it's not about like pumping up your ego. No, it's about an emotional connection, essentially.

And the emotional connection is that because I need this to go well, you're the conduit. That validates me. Yeah, because it's like you did a good job. Yeah. And you made everything else able to keep going, which is like you're the expediter of the system. But it's exhausting spending, you know, I mean, the other expression is like, you know, people living rent free in your head. You know, because it's like everybody's process is in my head, right? I'm taking care of this one and that one.

you know. How did this play out in your writing? So you were reflecting, you were doing your writing. What's like, Oh, oh, my writing assignment? Yeah,

so like give us an example of like this week where you were like focused on what someone's interpretation. Sometimes I'll pretend I'm like more familiar with a musician than I am. Like what? Do you know what I'm talking about? Like sometimes you'll be talking to someone. I'm like, let's say they're like really cool, you know? And they're like,

oh, I like this band. Who's really cool that you're talking to? You want to be the only cool person I talk to? Oh, you have friends now? You want to fit in. You want to like, yeah. It's like small stuff. It's not like I lie.

I wouldn't be like if somebody was like, do you know who Dr. Dre is? And I'd be like, of course I do. If I don't. But like I might be a little more into like, oh, Dr. Dre. When it's like, do I really? Can I really with confidence feel that like I can connect

with someone about Dr. Dre? No. Like if the conversation went further and you had to start listing tracks, you're like done. Then I'd be like, wow, I just cannot. I don't know. And you just wanted to be liked in that moment? You wanted the connection. You thought that the connection would make liking happen.

It's a great question. There's something about like not wanting to be the one to indicate that like, oh, this conversation's over or like, oh, we were talking. Just keep it going. I kind of. Yeah. It's weird. It's very, I mean, I'm weird. I don't think. I think lots of people have this experience.

Like, what's one that you have? I mean, I don't know anything about baseball. Not really. None. Do you know who Sandy Kofax is? I mean, only because of you. I thought everybody reads great Jews in sports history when they're 13. So I get that, like, there are certain conversations. Like, I need to speak to your parents about the fact that you don't know who Sandy Kovac.

Being Canadian is not an excuse for not knowing who Sandy Kofax is. I mean, there's lots of baseball players, I don't know. Yeah, but he's like the, never mind. See, I can just say to you. I'm so annoyed with you right now. See, instead of being annoyed with me, well, this is a great example, because instead of being annoyed with me,

I could have said, yeah, of course I know who he is. And then you wouldn't have pride deeper than that, and then I would have fostered that connection. I could talk about Sandy Kofax all night. But then I might have to have listened to that. So instead I just said, I don't know, got a little bit of annoyance. And now we move on. Okay, but let's, do you have another one like that?

It's more interesting to me to think about, like, when are we overly identified or concentrated on how other people perceive us? Okay, so like think of a comedian. let's say if you didn't like a comedian, let's say there's some stand-up, like, whatever. And someone else, like, really loved them. And what if it was like a person? You know, that's either like a boss or, like, someone you want to impress. You probably wouldn't lean that heavily into how much you don't like them.

There are certain times to express opinions and certain times where those opinions are not all that helpful to express. Sometimes I don't know the difference. And what I'm really thinking about, I swear to God, is Sweet Scott, who I could tell He's looking at me. And all I'm thinking is like, he really just wants to be on his phone. And that's totally okay. Because, like, he's looking at me. And I'm like, he's making a shopping list while looking at me.

You know, like, he's doing something. Also, Scott has never sat there and looked at us. He's never looked at us. Not once. He even, like, he pretends to look elsewhere. I don't even think he has the audio going in his headphones. I don't think he's just turned them off. And if you've missed the reference, Scott is in the room with us, the audio engineer.

Scott sounds zip recruiter trying to find a new. job that doesn't involve sitting in this room with us. No, but I think also that's, you know, I have spoken to other people who are, you know, a lot of people don't think of me as a people pleaser type because they're like, you're so confident. You speak up for yourself. Also, you're a little confrontational sometimes. But I'm this weird mix because I'm also a people. Like, I need like, if I go, nobody goes into a bank anymore. But like, if I go into like a restaurant, I need to be like, like, I need to be really nice to the people working there. I've noticed this about you and it's made me very confused.

Because I can be overly deferential. In a weird way. And then on the flip side, you can be wildly confrontational for no reason. This happened recently where you were telling me about... I don't like this episode anymore.

This is my best... This is my best episode. You just hit your stride. Okay, go. Oh, you were at the Super Bowl. And you told me of something that someone said to you, and they were like, they liked something. Oh, my God. Was it Oliver Hudson?

No, it wasn't Oliver Hudson? It wasn't it like the owners of the Dodgers? Oh, no! This is the worst. I met the owner of the Dodgers, but I didn't know that's who he was. And he said something like, oh, we should bring you down to Dodgers team. And I was like... Okay, pause.

So you're in this private box. I'm in a very exclusive Foxbox. Foxbox. Someone you don't know. I'm a horrible person. Invites you to another box. And I love baseball. And you love baseball.

Love it. And instead of being like, hmm, this nice man. I couldn't shut up. Is inviting me somewhere that I might enjoy going. Instead of forming a connection, you did what? She's got her head on the mic at this point. I'm a Giants fan, but okay. Now, the San Francisco Giants, not the New York Giants.

That's a football team. San Francisco Giants is the baseball team that I root for on this coast. No disrespect to the Dodgers. They're a fine baseball organization. I was raised a Yankees fan because my parents are from the Bronx, and that is the borough where the Yankees play. However, I needed him to know that I'm a Giants fan. It's a huge rivalry.

Like, people get beat up for being Giants. So this man... So then I find out after he's the... So this man who was... I'm Larry David. I am an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm. What goes through your mind in that moment? I cannot shut up.

That doesn't, like, here's how the information should come through to someone. Fancy box. Enjoying a athletic event. I was raised sharing bathwater. I should be grateful. Some nice man comes and says there's another box that you can go to. You can tell he's fancy. Like he's a...

And he's extending an opportunity. This is the inn. You have a way to like network and sort of up your social status here. I got to be me. And instead of just saying, wow, that's really nice, I would love to join you. As caca comes out. All right, well, this took a turn. This is where having the ability to read people's potential perceptions can be both helpful.

But if you get too deep into it, it's a curse. There's no real way to know everything. And then you can do like a massive amount of. No, and how much also, how much of our as human interactions is consumed by our interpretation before we even have more information. How many times do you say to me, what's the matter? What did I do? What's wrong? I think a lot of female types often do that because I do think that the female brain, the the brain that is wired with a certain kind of hormonal milieu is wired for a lot of,

you know, interpersonal and, you know, reading. I mean, think about the most basic thing you have to read if you are a person with a uterus. It's a baby. And you have to be able to pick up very, very subtle things. I mean, how many times have you heard, I mean, dads say it too, but moms often say, like, I could tell they were sick before they got sick, right? Or I could tell something was not right. And absolutely dads can have this too. But typically, historically, evolutionarily, it is the primary caregiver has been a female, you know. So I'm actually not surprised, you know, that I think ladies or lady types, you know, do tend to be kind of tuned in like that. Because what's the thing that most, that many, you know, heterosexual women will say that when

you ask him what's wrong, him, whoever the him is, what's wrong, he's like, nothing. Sometimes nothing is wrong, but sometimes he just says something. He says nothing. You had a rough day at work a couple times in the last two weeks. And we're just hanging out. And I look over. And all of a sudden your face goes from like, talkative and sort of chatty and engaged to, oh. And then did I start crying?

No, you don't actually make that sound. But your face, if it had a sound, would have been like, oh. I look over and I said to you, what's the matter? What do you say? Nothing. That's because I didn't want to, like, you know, catapult the evening into that. So that's a difference between you are fully aware in choosing not to say anything. Correct.

Versus your example is the guy has no idea what's wrong. Yeah, I have, I'm really big on, like, self-awareness. I keep bothering you about your lack of self-awareness. Maybe if I keep telling you, I don't think you're self-aware, you'll get aware. Oh, wait, that's not how it works. All right, everybody. Please follow us at Bialick Breakdown on Instagram. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have.

We'll see next time. Break down she's gonna break it down for you she's got a neuroscience PhD or two Fiction one and now she's gonna break