Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - PART TWO: Gregg Braden: Are We the Last Generation of Pure Humans? How To Maintain Our Unique Potential

Episode Date: July 23, 2025

What if everything we’ve been told about humanity’s future is a lie? Gregg Braden, bestselling author of Pure Human, scientist, and leading voice bridging science and spirituality, exposes the dark truth behind the transhumanist agenda and what he considers the urgent fight to preserve our human potential. In this eye-opening conversation, Braden warns we may be the last generation of pure humans as artificial intelligence and digital surveillance race ahead, threatening to sever us from our consciousness, our DNA, and even our souls. He unpacks the manipulation of media algorithms, emotional programming, and disinformation campaigns designed to divide humanity and dull our innate heart-brain coherence. From simulation theory and the Mandela Effect to his groundbreaking fractal time calculator that forecasts future global patterns, Braden dives deep into the spiritual and scientific underpinnings of this global shift. He also shares profound personal insights, including his near-death experience, interdimensional encounters, and his understanding of the spiritual meaning behind dementia. As society stands at a tipping point, Gregg Braden invites us to awaken our inner technology, reclaim ancient wisdom, and remember that love, not AI, is the most powerful force in the universe. Gregg Braden's latest book, Pure Human: The Hidden Truth of Our Divinity, Power, and Destiny: https://greggbraden.com/product/pure-human/ Fractal Time Calculator: https://greggbraden.com/fractal-time-calculator/ Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠ ⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, I'm I'm Biolik. I'm Jonathan Cohen. And welcome to part two of our conversation with Greg Braden. Wow. This conversation, we get so personal with Greg. And also theoretical, on the personal note, he talks about a near-death experience that changed the course of his life and actually opened him up to extra sensory abilities. I have not heard him speak about this anywhere else. We're also going to talk about simulation theory.

We actually, I think this is the most we've ever talked. about simulation theory with any guest. We talk about the Mandela effect. We talk about what a divine connection can mean if we are living in a simulation. And we're also going to talk about fractal time. We'll talk about some of the Bible code and how that's informed some of his theories. There's a lot that we disagree with Greg on. There's a lot that we challenge him on. But there's so much in this part of this episode that we cannot wait to share with you. Greg Braden is a New York Times best-selling author. He's trained in geology and computer science, and he's a pioneer in this field, the paradigm bridging science, social policy, and human potential. Our first episode talked about

all of his incredible work regarding divinity, regarding transhumanism. And this part of the episode, you will learn a lot more about him as a person and really where these theories can take us in the field of consciousness. Break it down. If there's a struggle for our divinity, how do we win that struggle? And this was really, this is where a very deeply spiritual evolution happens here. Because the idea of winning, that's an old idea, of conflict against conflict. We don't want to win.

We want to triumph. The way we triumph in this ancient struggle, if the goal of the struggle is to deny our divinity, we triumph by living our divinity, by living the best version of ourselves, by imagining freely and sharing our innovations openly with one another, the ability to share information by loving without fear, healing our bodies, forgiveness of one another, empathy, sympathy, compassion for our brothers and sisters. Those are the qualities that allow us to triumph in this fundamental struggle. And when we don't, and we're talking about climate change, We're talking about the pandemic.

The question is, what do we become in the presence of what life brings to our doorstep? When an election doesn't go the way that we thought was going to go, or when we find that we've been lied to, what do we allow that to do to us? Do we allow it to drive us to become something we would never be in a million years, to become a hateful, vengeful being? And I've seen this happen, and now you all have, and our viewers have as well. When we have to push back on an idea, this is the big one for me. Do we push back from our love of the people and our family and our community that stand behind us or from our hate and our fear of what we perceive in front of us? That is the spiritual quandary that we find because we're all faced with a changing world.

And we're going to push back. Do we push back from our love or from our fear and from our hate? And the answer, it might have the same outcome, ultimately in the physical world, but on a spiritual basis. We're going to get through all this. We're going to get through this convergence point. We're going to get through all this crazy stuff. We're going to get through it.

The question is, what have we become as we've gone through this? What have we allowed the events of the world to drive us to become? That's why I wanted to say in this book, I'm acknowledging systems thinker. There's a fundamental struggle. Within that struggle, these things are happening to deny us from being the best version of ourselves. When we can claim our divinity, claim the best version of ourselves, moving forward in that, rather than fighting against the things we don't like, it's a very, very different way of living. I was just thinking that made me think of one of the kind of interpretations of one of the core prayers in Jewish liturgy. There's a section of the Shama, which is like the main, it's one of the main components of the Jewish prayer service.

And there's this paragraph about the punishment, right? I'm just going to be clear, because this is, you know, liturgical. there's a paragraph about the punishment that happens if we don't fulfill all of these things. And the prayer is about love. It's about if we do not love in a particular way, there's a punishment. And I'm using like punishment in quotes because, you know, so the punishment is that, you know, the rains will not come. The earth will not produce what it needs to. You will not be sustained by this planet.

And my rabbi, shout out to Chaim Seidlerfeller, he gives an instrument. he gives an interpretation that this is an ecological statement from thousands and thousands of years ago, that there are certain behaviors that unite us and connect us. And when we become distanced from one another and from God, right, there are repercussions. And it's kind of interesting because what many people would say, right, is this increased distance from each other, ourselves and God, has led to also a disregard and a disrespect for the planet itself and what's happening. The rains are not coming like they should, right?

The earth is going in different directions, right? Either drought or genetically modified things that none of us should be eating, right? And I'm not saying that like the prophecies of the, you know, prayers that Judah Ben Nassi, I think Judah Hanasi, you know, codified in the Mishnaic area. But I'm not saying that those are coming true and that that's my prophecy coming true, but the notion that there's an ancient belief, and it's not just restricted to Judaism, there's an ancient belief that what we do and how we behave has larger implications on the planet. It's not insignificant.

And that goes even one step further if you're familiar with the Dead Sea Scrolls. Have you studied the Scrolls? I haven't studied. I've seen them several times, but yeah. The War Scroll. This is fascinating to me. I mean, the oldest records of the Old Testament, unedited, and there were 11 caves initially. It was in cave number one, the first cave and the first vase that they found and the first scrolls they found.

One of those scrolls was called the War Scroll. And they did not want that to be released to the public until, and they didn't until 1995. And you have to say, what could possibly warrant the time and energy and the money to keep that from being shared? Well, there's a piece of that war scroll. It describes the things you're talking about, and it goes further, and it describes a series of battles. Some are won by what are called the Sons of Darkness, and some are won by what are called the Sons of Light.

The last battle, the Sons of Light prevail, but there's a catch. And the catch is the Sons of Light prevail through divine intervention. however, the people of the earth must accept their own divinity for that divine intervention to be possible. And the notion being that we're not talking about prophecy here, we're talking about a consciousness that exists, right, has existed, again, in other traditions as well, this consciousness of a connection to the divine as, you know, a sort of healing force. It's just, you know, this is where language is probably insufficient because we're talking about these deep, spiritual concepts with a limited language of English and all the baggage that comes with words like love and like divine and like evil and all those things. I mean, there are other languages we could talk about us living in a simulated reality and the construct

and the algorithms that drive the construct and what triggers certain protocols in the algorithms. We could talk about it that way and we'd lose a lot of people and other people with Silicon Valley would love it, you know, and they do. But I I think this is where it's important. Are we living in a simulation? The odds are more are greater than... Can we talk about that? Sure.

Oh, yeah. Well, you're familiar with Nick Bostrom's algorithm. Ish. Okay, 2001, Nick Boastrom was the first that actually scientifically attempted to answer the question. They've been asked since the 1940s. When the first computers were developed in 1940s, one of the first things that was asked was,

are we living in a computer program? If we can do this here, has someone else done that and we're in the computer program? That's a big question in 1940s, you know? So Nick Bostrom, 2001, he took the world as it is, his philosopher, the University of Washington, I think, is where he was from, and wrote his thesis on this, took a number of algorithms, plugged them in, ran the variables, I'm sorry, plug them in the algorithm, ran that, the odds came back, that it's greater that we are in a simulated reality than we're not. This is probably not a base reality that we're probably living some kind of a construct. It flows with almost every indigenous tradition because the Hindus have always said,

this is the Maya, this is the illusion. The biblical traditions say we come from somewhere else. We're here for a while. This isn't the real world. We're going to learn something here that we're going to need where we go next. The Kabbalistic tradition says that we're just being projected onto a screen. And so now the physics is actually showing. the double-slude experiment was the reinterpreted double-sled experiment that just like if you do a video game on these computers and it's a complex video game, the computer cannot put the entire, if there's like a jungle with buildings and houses and rooms, it's not all there at once.

Right. It only appears when that part needs to be interacted with. The double-slit experiment suggests that our reality works that way as well. I remember studying this in physics. Yeah, and now we're looking at things like the Mandela effects, obviously, which is very real and is increasing. What's that? The Mandela effect is where we have a collective memory. Are you familiar with the Mandela effect?

No. Okay, Nelson Mandela. I was like, I know Nelson Mandela. There was a segment of the population that believed that he died when he was in jail. And another segment said, no, he went on to become a president. And then these other things, like people began remembering the fruit of the loom label on underwear with a cornucopia that they say does not exist and never exist. If you Google it, the logo says it never existed. But you and I know it did because we're living a slightly different.

Wait, hold on a second. No, it doesn't stop there. It doesn't stop there. I mean, it's the monocle. The monocle on the gallery. I remember a cornucopia. Yeah, I do too. But if you Google it, they'll say.

Olivia, I think you're too young. Cornucopia? No, yeah. Cornucopia? You're Canadian. I don't even know what a cornucopia is. Oh my God. Cornucopia is like a...

In his reality, there's no cornucopia! It's like a little... I'm just... This is one example, but they're many. It's like a shofar, but it's bigger, and things fill out of it on Thanksgiving. Yeah, all the fruit comes out, and it was a label in the back of my underwear

when I was a kid. I remember that. So these are all instances where the... Is like a glitch in the Matrix? It's a reset. It's a little reset. Hold on. So...

we have the picture here of the cornucopia. Well, let's put it on whoever's... No, but people could have made that. But yes, that's what I picture. That's what you think. Here, I remember this. They're saying it never existed. If you, if you, Fruit of Loom says they never had that logo.

And we all know they did. There are lyrics. No, no, they did. But there are lyrics of songs that I was singing when I was in the 60s and now those lyrics have... That lyrics. Oh, one of them... I like folk music from the 60s.

So I'm curious. Not folk music in the 70s. Mama told me when I was young, be a good boy, don't ever play with guns. Yes. And they said that's not what. What is it? They changed it to something. I don't know.

These are all called Mandela effects that are happening. If you look it up, you're going to see. And there are new ones coming in all the time. They are suggestive. I think they're suggested to the fact that like we want to have alternate interpretations that are in many cases transcendental, meaning when you think about interpretations of events that we know about from thousands of years ago,

I mean, even, I don't want to like get controversial, but Christianity, right? Sure. He died. He came back, right? These are all things that were in the vernacular. If we're in a simulation, if we're in a simulated environment,

and I'm fascinated by this, I work with simulations when I was a senior computer systems designer during the Cold War. The purpose, a simulation, a simulation has a beginning. I'm scared now. No, it has a beginning. Well, it means, okay, simulation has a beginning. It has an end.

There are rules in that simulation. And what's so interesting is, I'm surprised your guests haven't talked about this. My Ambialx breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine. Drink more water. There's no real data. there's no game plan.

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What's interesting is in a simulation, you can always talk to someone outside the simulation for help. We're always told our existence has a beginning. As an end, we've got rules that we're supposed to follow. And when you close your eyes and you communicate with a higher source, you're communicating outside of the simulation. You're saying, hey, I need some help. The purpose of a simulation is to learn in a relatively safe environment, something you need for wherever it is that you're about to, about to go to. And all of our traditions say we're only here temporarily. Okay, I have a question. Okay. I have a simulation

and you have one and Valerie has one. Are we connected in this simulation or my simulation is everything here? There's, there are consensus, consensus realities and can he come with me? I like him a lot. Yeah. I apologize. I didn't know. No, I assume that this was common knowledge because there's so many of your guests I thought that probably had. We've definitely touched on the simulation. But there's also like the techno-utopia simulation where we're actually in a manufactured environment versus using it as an analogy that, you know, the simulation is that many of the Earth's qualities resemble computer programming, such as we're in the consciousness field. there are rule sets, there are cause and effects. We are limited by what we can perceive and sort of we are creating our reality based on

the perception of the mind and the programming that we have. So I wonder sort of where your perspective is, do you see it as an analogy or do you see it as more realistic like we are actually in the computer? I think it's not a computer. I think it's safe to say we are in a construct. This is probably not a base reality. And there's so little of us here. to begin with. You know, we're 99.99% empty atoms anyway. And your higher self is you outside the

simulation. From a biblical perspective, this is a false world. The Gnostic texts that were denied by the early Christians, and they were forbidden by the Catholic Church. When you go back and you read what those are all about, that there is, there was a world of perfection. And there were powerful beings that began creating copies of that world. One of those copies is a flawed copy. And we happen to be in what they would call a flawed copy or a construct. And the flaw is the evil that we see here that we're trying. So that's, you know, people that are biblically inclined, they would see it from that perspective.

doesn't make it doesn't make it any less real and doesn't mean that this isn't important. The thing that I get worried about and that many people I think... Don't worry. Don't worry. It's all good. No, but when you talk about, when I hear, the reason that I sort of don't love the concepts of good and evil, and I understand them

historically and I understand I speak Hebrew and I study biblical Hebrew and like, you know, I'm into that. But the thing that I get worried about is a lot of the conversation about good and evil often comes from more fundamentalist communities, and the people who are evil are usually the ones who, like, for example, don't accept Christ as their savior.

So you're not worried about the concept, you're worried about the perception of the concept. Correct. Yeah, and I'm with you on that. Right. I'm totally with you. And then I'm like, I don't know. Do I fit in this simulation? You know?

Well, this simulation apparently is moving towards some kind of a reset or a convergence point. Right. Because those people think that they're right. They do. And that they're good and other people are... And it's all based in fear. Right. You know, if you don't do this, you're not going to make it. Right. I'm kind of cool with what everybody wants to do, just leave me alone. I think this is, even if you're not into the simulation theory, when we deny our humanness is when we get into trouble.

Right. When we embrace the potential of our humanness, when we live from love. Yes. We love ourselves enough to be the best version of ourselves. we've triumphed in the simulation. That's what the simulation would be all about. So, yeah, I don't think there's anything. That's why we say the Lord is testing.

I keep being tested. What we're seeing is a breakdown of the unsustainable systems. And they're all unsustainable right now. Financial systems, economic systems, political systems, climate systems right now, the way they're being engineered. Have you done geoengineering? Have you had any people talking about, well, geoengineering is a big, big part of what we're,

what's happening in our lives right. But all these are unsustainable. So we're at this convergence point. And at the same time, we're being asked to give away our humaneness in exchange for technology. My point is that the technology outside of our bodies, we can allow to serve us, but not to enslave us. And if we put that technology, if we adapt it in mass at birth, and we allow these ideas put forth by people like the WEF, by people like the UN who lobby U.S. Congress, just like oil and gas and pharmaceuticals. They're lobbying for these principles. And people that are not aware of the drawback can become vulnerable, especially young people,

can become vulnerable to giving themselves away the tech because they've never been taught how rare and beautiful and precious their bodies are. And if we think for a moment that there's not something, the chaos in the world is an indication of how precious our divinity is within us. Because the more chaos you see, that's how much it takes to divert and distract us from opening the door to the deep truth of who we are in here. And as we get closer to this, what you're seeing is more chaos because it takes a lot of chaos to keep us spun up in the fear, and in the hate and in the division. That's the big picture.

Not everybody wants to look at that. We don't have to. But that's systems thinker. You want to see what's going on now. What do you do about in your everyday life? Love and live the best version of yourself. The way that I was described to me from a guy named Narayan Singh who his given name was Michael J. Lincoln, he wrote the messages from the body book, also a Hayhouse author.

passed away a few years ago now. Left the simulation. He was out. The way that he described it is that this is a microcosm of some larger reality. You can imagine the larger reality being the energetic field that we're in that was created. And he described it as there being sort of a home office where the God who oversees this world is one of many who happens to just sort of like imagine them working in an office as a middle manager and this was his project to see if you could increase consciousness amongst human beings living in the in these

parameters and if it was successful it's kind of all an experiment and if they can find a way to live together speaking different languages seeing each other as different recognizing that they aren't different at all and not blow each other up or ruin the resources of the earth then it will be a success and that information will be taken back to some other larger galactic information system. Mothership. Mothership slash home office. And it will then help translate that information into learning and what should be created next. So this is largely an experiment.

And he believed that the deck was stacked in the favor of those people who want to wake up and create the next version of the human experience. But there are obstacles and that we're going to navigate. these obstacles so you can see the almost you know if it's a game or if it's a movie there are quote unquote people trying to prevent the goal and then there are those people who are pursuing said goal the your faces is very twisted which is great we'll uh offer a reaction shot here well just so much of it seems again like i just keep coming back to this seems so subjective right like the people who are like we want trump or like he's going to be the savior and then people

who are like, we don't want Trump. Like, he's the devil. Like, I don't know. And from the perspective of some people, the West is the bad guy and death to the West. And others, the people who want death to the West or the bad guy. So it is very subjective and hard to parse out when we say good and evil. It's so easy to get twisted. And this is why it's so important to have a solid benchmark.

Do the events support or deny human divinity? That's the benchmark. Okay. So hold on. I'm going to give you a hard way. best version of yourself. I'm going to give you a hard one. I mean, I don't think it's not hard for me because I'm who I am and I don't know who you are in this. I'm going to pick a really hard thing. I'm going to pick homosexuality. Why is that hard? Well, it's not hard for me because I believe that every person deserves to exist, love, do what they want. I have a complete historical and cultural understanding of why the Old Testament says what it does and what it means. Like, I have complete comfort with people being gay, Trant, like, do you? Like, it's all good. love. So there are people for whom that would be those people living divinity, right? They're living and there would be other people who would use divinity and say that's evil. It's against. So this is the

kind of issue where I don't like gray. You know, I want there to be like one answer. This is an easy one. This is easy. So Greg, I want you to give the right answer so badly. Go. Our goal is to be whole. We want wholeness in our lives. And we will stop at nothing. Correct. To find our wholeness. We will deceive ourselves into circumstances and relationships to find that wholeness. All right. So let's talk about energy.

If you're not in that body, are you a male or a female? I'm neither. Exactly. Right. Now, you come into this body and to be in this body in the polarity world, you've already given away 50% of your spiritual identity to be in a polarized body. Yes. All right.

And if your goal is whole, wholeness, you will be drawn to the energetic complement to give you what it was you knew before you were in the body. Okay. All right. So if you're in a female body, you're going to be drawn to a male polarity. A male is going to be drawn to a female. But what if you come into this world energetically as, I'll just say as a male?

Okay. And early in your life. You mean you have X, Y chromosomes. Yeah. Okay. And early in your life, you have life experiences where you lose that. identity as well. You lose your mailness. Right.

Could be trauma. Sure. Could be. There are all kinds of things. Your goal is your wholeness. You're going to seek to reinforce that energetic signature. You're going to seek to reinforce your masculinity first. Got it. Where we get into trouble is put a label on it. Because maybe it's the first five years of your life. You think that you are interested in another sex. And then at the age of five, you say, man, I,

I think I like the girls. But I've already called myself gay, and now what am I going to do? If you just let the energy do what the energy does, the energy wants wholeness and completeness. And for some people, without the polarities, you are drawn to both. You're drawn to both to reinforce those. It's where we put the labels on them is where we get into trouble. And I also, I don't need you to approve of gay people.

That's not what I was asking. Was that the wrong answer? No, I appreciate your answer. And I think also, I think what my question was was, you know, can these things not be subjective? Oh, yeah. Right? I mean, that leads to love and openness. But we come.

Which for me is the right answer. You know what I mean? Like, like, I really don't, I don't really care what you're doing unless you're doing it inside of my body or with me. Do we love ourselves enough to find our wholeness? Right. And to allow other people to find their wholeness. Allow other people to find their wholeness. So this is a place where I would say that is in pursuit of goodness.

But when it comes to good and evil, evil, that's why I'm going to go back. Evil is the denying of our divinity, denial of our imagination, creativity, our ability to love, to forgive, empathy, sympathy, compassion, all of those things. This is like hot-button issues with Greg. Yeah, well, I didn't, you know, this is unscripted. We had no idea where it's going to go. No, it's great. We appreciate your goodness. By way, I'm not conservative or progressive either one.

I'm an optimist, I'm also a realist. And I believe ultimately we, this political system we're in right now, they're going about different ways. If you look close, they're both leading us a lot in exactly the same place. Deception is the name of the game. And there's a lot of deception until we begin looking. That's why you have to have a context. Before my mom left this world, my little Jewish four foot eight inch tall mama, she's

shrunk from 4-11 to 4-8. She said to me, and I kind of know what she meant, she says, Greg, the world is going to hell in the handbasket. Now, the hell part I always got, the hand-basket part, I wasn't sure. She's Midwestern, right? She was. But what it appeared to her that the world was coming apart at the seams for no apparent reason, and it was just this willy-nilly one-off here, off there.

There's a process, and there is a sequence of events, and the process has a beginning and an end. end, and we're in that process. That process is that we are barreling down the road towards this convergence point, cosmologically, geologically, economically. I mean, all these cycles are converging, and it's how we respond to those cycles. The struggle between good and evil is driving our response. And if we don't know that, if we're, if we allow ourselves to be deceived, and it's so easy because you see it in music. I mean, I'm a music, my wife's a voting member of the Grammys. And we have this conversation all the time.

And where the evil is coming up in, in musical, not just lyrics, but in the way the music is performed, does it enhance or deny our divinity? And I think we have to keep coming back to that. Anything that denies our divinity, our ability to heal and imagine and create and forgive and love is an expression of evil. Doesn't mean the people know they're evil. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that there are people that have a propensity for greed and control who will fall into evil practices because of their propensity. They may not even know what they're doing. If this is all a test, an evolution of human love and capacity to love, what is a version of the world without the military industrial complex fueling our economy. Like, how does the world operate? We just no longer

have defenses. There's no longer war. People are just living in harmony with one another. Like, is there a version of that world that is within our grasp in the next 25 years? Like, how do you see the future? I don't think it's this world. Literally what he asks every morning when he wakes up. I don't think it's this exact. This is what we're doing. We've outgrown that polarity. And we're moving toward a world where we, I think in this generation, you'll see young people walk away from war as a means to solve their problems. They'll be told to go to war and they won't do it. I think we're going to see that. You're already seeing it.

I saw it in Vietnam, too. I mean, you're seeing it. But I mean, you're seeing it on the battlefield now in Europe. You're actually seeing that happen. As long as we live in the world of polarity, I think we're always going to have a challenge. It's how we as a species meet that challenge and how we choose. to evolve, have we outgrown the need to hurt one another to solve our problems? That's where we're going with this. We have a generation of leaders who we have outgrown. They're leaders from another

world, another era. And I worked in the industry during the Cold War. I saw the way these people think. And we're outgrowing that right now. And this is so fascinating. It takes one generation. it takes one generation. Usually the amount of change that we see happening right now is spread out over maybe a century. And in one generation, I mean, think about it. We've gone from vinyl to digital music. I mean, how in the world?

Yeah, we are. How in the world did that happen? And I think we've gone through so much change. And we're wired to accept that change. We have to be willing to do that. But I think we will see that world. And I think that world is, I think we'll see it within our lifetimes. I don't think we're going to see mushroom clouds on the horizon.

That is a potential we could have. Have you studied the Torah codes? Are you familiar with the Torah Code? Montreya, a bit, yes. Okay. I've worked with the scientists who've actually built that, the algorithms. One of them just, Eli Rips died recently. The other two are still here.

One of the redeeming factors for me is when you look at the Torah codes, and I'm assuming our viewers know that the Torah codes are converting the first five books, the Hebrew Bible, Genesis, Exodus, Libidicus, Numbers, Deuteronomy into number the gamutri equivalent of the letters and using computer algorithms to search very specific sequences. Yeah, the book that came out that most people probably have heard of was Bible code. Michael Drozman. Yeah, which scared a lot of people. And it's, you know. Well, here's the good news. the only two places where atomic holocaust, atomic war, nuclear, anything comes up, the last time that happened was in 83.

So doesn't mean we won't have a limited exchange somewhere, but I don't think we're going to see nuclear winter and a lot of the frightening things that have been possible. I think we've outgrown it. I think we switch that timeline enough. Enough of us chose peace in the world. All it takes. maybe you've done this experiment. If you send a projectile

from the earth to the moon and from the earth, you move that projectile the trajectory just a little bit by the time it gets the moon, that's way off. We don't have to all choose peace, but enough people can say we don't want to hurt our brothers and sisters to solve our problems. That little shift

by the time we get to the timeline where the war happens, we're nowhere near that. And I think we see that happen more than we give ourselves credit for. Speaking of time, I want to ask about this fractal time calculator, which is really, really cool. I think I'll remember the 2012 phenomenon that we're still actually playing out right now. 2012 was the year on the Mayan calendar. Many people said the world was going to end. Oh, I knew those people.

Yeah, well, they never said that. They said it was the end of one cycle in the beginning. Tom did. Tom, if you're listening, I remember you said that. Well, they said it was the beginning of the end of one cycle, the beginning of the cycle that comes next. But here's the interesting part. When you look at cosmological cycles, they don't turn on a dime. There's a buffer between the end of one cycle and the beginning of next.

And there is a factor that you can apply to any cycle to know when that buffer is. And that is part of what we're doing here. So for 2012, for example, 2012 was the midpoint of a 36-year-long cycle, 18 years before and 18 years after. 18 years after is the year 2030. 2030 is the technically the end of the Mayan cycle. So my concept as as a mathematician and someone looks at cycles, I said, what if time is fractal? That concept had not been explored very much when I was writing this book. Not this book, but the fractal time book. And so I began exploring 9-11 from that perspective. If time is fractal, it means, what it means is that an event will set into motion, a quality of energy that will repeat the conditions on a knowable, predictable basis. That's true for world events.

It's true for our own relationships. And to test it, the first one I tested was 9-11. So I said, what happened on 9-11, America was surprised and attacked. When was the last time? that happened, well, it was Pearl Harbor. So I took Pearl Harbor as what's called a seed date. I applied the algorithm and that seed date told me the next fractal cycles when I could expect America to be surprised and attacked again. September 11, 2001 was the third fractal of that. It doesn't predict it must happen. It says that the conditions that led to the first experience. I mean. What's that mean for human relationships?

I'm the product of a very dysfunctional, alcoholic, abusive family. And it shows up in my life in interesting ways. Let me do a good example. My father left when I was 10. I lied about my age and went to work in a factory as a union worker. And I worked 4 p.m. to 4 a.m., union, 12-hour shifts. As a 10-year-old? No, I was 14 when I began doing that.

And I remember, I was standing by a time clock where they used to hand out physical checks in the old days. And the foreman came up and he gave me this physical check and he looked me in the eye and he said, a man's wages for a man's work. I mean, I, as a kid trying to contribute to the family, that meant a lot to me. and that put into motion a cycle of abundance for me. And that cycle comes up when I got my first corporate book deal with Random House. It comes up when I got my first corporate job, even without a degree. I shouldn't have gotten my first job because I had no degree, but they needed the expertise.

It was the Arab oil embargo. America needed oil. I had a rare combination of computer science and geology that not many people had. And they said, we're going to hire you. And the work you're doing, you can apply that to your degree. And you'll get your degree just by doing this job. And I said, you're going to pay me to get my degree? And they said, yeah.

And those were all, they all fell exactly on the fractal cycles of that first moment when I felt that feeling of what it felt like to be able to contribute to my family, contribute to the world and to be compensated for that in a meaningful way. That's interesting. But I've also done the same thing with all my divorces. How many times have you been divorced? You know, this is a hard business of relationships. I'm married to Martha.

Martha is my fourth marriage. Wow. It's almost every, well, almost every 10 years. She got nervous in our 10-year. I bet she did. But this month is 15 years. We have our 15-year. That's really sweet.

Well, it's really fun and we'll include the link so that people can do their fractal time calculator. So what people can do is you can either use a year of a pivotal event or you can use your age of a pivotal event. It can be a good thing or it can be a healing. It can be an abundance experience. It can be a divorce, a breakup. Because the point is that is all energy.

And when we have those experiences, there's an, in a sense, emotional imprint that will set into motion in the field, a cycle of energy, and we'll repeat that on known and predictable sequences. And this is where it gets really interesting. There's a little place at the beginning when a cycle ends and before the next one begins, there's a place where neither exists. Okay. In time, 2012, it's the 36-year cycle, all right, when anything goes. For humans, that point where one of our cycles ends before the next one begins is an opportunity called the choice point. And it's in that choice. You can always choose. But it is when the deck is stacked in your favor to energetically to make really good choices in life. And that's why I,

and it's on our website. There's a fractal time calculator. I remember when my kids were little, there was a series of kind of progressive, holistic books about every year of your child's development. And they would always talk about that when you get near a birthday, something is stirring, you know? And I would notice that right before a birthday, usually a couple weeks, like there'd be an extra energy. And there was this notion, and for the hippies among us, you know,

I would recount to my children literally all the way through junior high and into high school, I would recount to them the night of their birth, what happened the night of their birth? You know, and it was like it's an energetic. And now it's like, oh, my gosh, she's going to tell my birth story again. But the notion was we are circling around, you know, we're coming around to it. That's very, very interesting to me. It's, yeah, it's interesting. When my mom was alive on my birthday, you know, dementia, they always say the oldest memories are the last to go.

So when I was a kid, five years old, I always. told my mom, I said, I'm going to live 200 years. I'm on the 200-year plan. And so every year I would go to see my mom, and I'd point to her tummy on my birthday. And I'd say, I came from there, and I'd say, thank you for bringing me in this world. And the last time before she passed, late stage dementia. And I pointed to her, and I said, I said, you know, I came from your tummy. And she goes, you did. And I said, yeah. And she goes, well, I guess I could wish. you happy birthday, she said, but you're on the 200-year plan, so I don't have to. And it was one of those moments of clarity, and then it was gone.

Did you ever connect with your dad or no? My father, he left when I was 10. I didn't know him well. And he died from all the abuses of his body. I mean, everything you can imagine. He died pretty young. You're an only child. No, I have a younger brother, four years younger. Wow.

What's he like? and day. I was going to say, I bet he's like a corporate. If we, no, if we, he proudly, I didn't, and maybe he's watching this, his name is Eric. Sorry, Eric. He proudly calls himself a Missouri redneck. And we are like night and day. Wow. And we look different. We're built different. He's a very thick, you know, Midwestern stock. I'm, I have a more of a European body somehow. I guess it's, you know, from, for my mom. mom's side. And he's a really, he has a good heart. He's a sweet man in the inside, little tough on the outside. I have to say the passing of my mom brought us together in a way that we

hadn't since we shared a house as kids to honor her in her passing. And it was sad. Yeah, it was a very beautiful thing. I wonder if you have insights on dementia. My grandfather went through it. And recently, I forget who, I heard it described that the soul or consciousness starts leaving the body and actually traveling around as someone has dementia. I'm curious what your insights are and from a spiritual perspective, what you think is happening. Yeah, well, this is why I want to do that experiment first. Think back to the neuron and pong. That neuron is connecting to something that's not in the body. It's connecting the field.

And what the science suggests is our memories don't live in them. our bodies, that our bodies are the antenna that connect to the place in the field where there are no secrets where those memories live. For my mom, I watch this happen, and I've seen that happen with celebrities as well, but I'll use my mom specifically. She began saying in her 60s she just wanted to forget all of the hurt in her life. She wanted to forget the abuse from her husband, my dad. She wanted to forget the suffering that her family had gone through as a Jewish family. They denied their Hebrew tradition, changed their names, I mean, everything, didn't want anybody to know. And I have to say, when my mom left this world, she was a very

happy woman because she'd forgotten everything that ever hurt her. And what that means, biologically, this is how powerful we are. I took her to the male clinic in Scottsdale, Arizona, when she started having problems. I knew she had dementia, but there were different kinds. And we ran through a week's worth of tests. And at the end, on the Friday afternoon, they bring it all together, and they say, this is what's up. My mom's body began producing a chemical that matched her desire to forget everything that ever hurt her. What that chemical did, well, you know this. That chemical lodged itself in the synapses and absorbed. she would have the attempt to access a memory, but the signal was absorbed by a chemical that would not allow that synapse to complete the transmission.

So I think there's a pretty strong body of evidence out there. A lot of people call it anecdotal. Remember Ronald Reagan, when he was on trial a bazillion times, he declared to the world that he'd forgotten. And ultimately, he did. I know. Others, elderly people often as a result of trauma. And I'm going to speak specifically to trauma in war. The acts that they had committed as soldiers, male soldiers in war, that they never were taught how to reconcile. They had so much guilt around what they had done to another human in the name of war that they wanted to forget those things. And the guilt that they felt around that. And our bodies are so smart. Your body will just do what you ask your body to do.

And your body says, you want to forget? I can do that for you. And that's from a psychospiritual perspective, I think there's a, it's more than anecdotal. So from that way of thinking, it's really the integrated person who is able to maintain the antennae and the access to all the information that they need in order to function properly. and it's from those deep parts of pain that feel unintegrated, unprocessed, that may increase the body's shutdown. Jonathan, I love it when you talk that way, because you summarize that in a really beautiful way. What I'll say is that I've spent much of my adult life.

I've been privileged and blessed to travel into some of the most isolated and beautiful and magnificent and remote and pristine places remaining in the world. today to find the indigenous people and the legacy that they have left from the highlands of Central China and Peru to Tibet and into Peru and the Yucatan and India and Nepal all through the desert southwest and the Sudan and all the not the Sudan through the Sahara. And this is a common theme. It's not just, you know, American spirituality or Western spirituality, but they believe that a part of us that doesn't reside in the body, and that's what the science is suggesting, and that we have the ability to determine the quality of our access to that part of ourselves.

If we do nothing and do nothing to maintain it and live the destructive lifestyle that we've been conditioned and indoctrinated to accept in the West, it appears to be common that we will lose access to that. It's not natural for us to do that. And I was with a friend of mine recently. He's 96, 97. He used to travel all those trips. He was a liaison for a company that put all those trips together. And I talked to him recently and I said, you know, how are you doing? He says, oh, Greg, I have to tell you, I have to keep reminding myself, I'm not 90 anymore. You know, I can't do what I did when I was 90. And it's about a way of thinking. So if we create like another way of envisioning getting older, yes, you slow down a little bit, but you can maintain your faculty.

It's not the aging that's the problem. It's not how far you've moved in time. It's whether or not you've deteriorated as you move through time. What the science is showing is that when we accept our divinity, when we love ourselves enough to accept the potential of what it means to be human among the many things that happen, There are longevity enzymes that live in every human. We all have them that are awaiting a trigger that awakens them. That trigger, one of the triggers is a decrease of molecular stress. This isn't stress from driving down the 680 freeway or... It's an internalized. Well, you know, we have stress. When you drink water that is full of impurities, your body will compensate for that.

You don't even know it, but that's a form of stress. or when you eat food that hasn't been prepared well, but seed oils, for example, cooked in high heat, you can do it. It might taste good. Your body is compensating for that. You don't even know it, but on a molecular level, there's a lot going on.

And when we accept all the potentials, including the potentials of super memories, super longevity, super resilience, super healing, heart-brain coherence is a big part of awakening those kinds of things. And other, there are seven epigenetic triggers, I think, that will answer your question. Thought, feeling, emotion, breath, movement, nutrition, and focus. And these are with the Tibetan monks.

The focus, where they put the focus in the body, how they feel about that part of the body. But the epigenetics shows us very clearly that we are soft and malleable all the way down. It's not just neuroplasticity. We're talking about cellular plasticity. we're talking about genetic plasticity. And that's what sets us apart from every other life. No other form of life was given the ability at will on demand when we choose to access those epigenetic triggers.

It's our divinity that allows us to do that. The forces of evil that want to keep us repressed, of course, want to veil the power of human divinity. But rather than fight back on the forces, just live the divinity. Just live it. Just live your best life. I love the explanation of the seven points because it shows that there's internal mechanisms

happening that our thoughts, our love, our spiritual connection is actually interplaying with. Years ago, this was like before the longevity movement. It was sort of in the early 2000s, I thought about lifespan. And this was sort of after I had talked and listened to Michael J. Lincoln talking about the consciousness experiment. I thought 135 seems like a good plan for how old someone could be. Sure. You're on the 200 year plan.

Just rounded up to 200. Do you think that that is an achievable goal? Like, where did you get 200 from? Did it just pop up in your head? Well, I was five years old. I don't know where that. It was part, when I was five years old, I almost died. I took, I'm looking at an electrical cable up here.

I took an electrical cable in our house, and I'm not sure what I was thinking consciously, but I stripped all the insulation off, and I walked over to a wall plug, and I put one side and one and the other side and the other, and held on for dear life, and it burned my hands, burned my face, burned all the hair off, my face. It was, I'm lucky to be here. One of the consequences of that is that my body functions differently. When you survive that, your body functions differently. You metabolize a little bit differently. And I said to my mom at that time, I said, I'm on the 200-year plan. And I'd like, I want to see how this world turns out.

I want to see all the good things. We've worked so hard. I want to see the good things that happen. And I would like to be able to help my global family any way I can. We're going through some very difficult times. And I think we're going to see more because there's an evolutionary process of breaking down the systems that are unsustainable. and the beauty is the new systems aren't here yet. We're building them. And they can only be built if we have a vision of what's possible, and it begins with us. This is the thing. Everything we're

building out here is a reflection of the way we see ourselves, the way we use the technology. If we believe we're weak and powerless, we're going to ask that technology to do it for us. if we believe that we are a rare and precious form of life and that that technology can support us in being the best version of ourselves, making good choices and maybe exploring the world in ways we don't know how to do. That's a whole different world.

It's a whole different way of thinking. I have to ask about the electrocution because we have a friend of the podcast who really had a beautiful episode with us and we've kept in touch with a woman named Elizabeth Crone who got struck by lightning. She nearly died or medically died, came back, saw herself, had a whole extrasensory experience where she believed that she was in a garden for two weeks and got downloaded all this sort of information. I'm curious if that electrocution, you know, if you were only five, did it change your consciousness?

Did it? Do you really want to talk about this? I'm okay to talk about. People don't ask, so I don't talk about it much. I'll tell you exactly what happened. And it happened in broad daylight. I couldn't speak. I couldn't even tell my mom what had happened.

I was just in shock. In those days, doctors used to come to the house. Back in the olden, back in the olden days, I was lying in my bed, waiting for the doctor that my mom had called, and my bed was in the corner of a room. So I had a wall behind me and a wall to one side. In broad daylight, while I was there, all of a sudden, I felt two hands underneath the back of my head, and I knew they couldn't be there because there's a wall behind me, and I rolled my head back, and I could see a being behind me that had my head in his cradled hands, and my feet was a

second one. They were very tall. They had maroon-colored robes, and I couldn't see their faces because they had the hoods. Were you out of your body? Nope. I was lying in that bed. I was very conscious, And that was the first time I became aware of a world that other people couldn't see that I was seeing in that moment. And that certainly influenced my ability to think differently about the world. There was a communication that happened that has been constant since that time. I know what those voices sound like. As a scientist, I don't talk about it a lot because there, there's no context, but you asked.

What do you believe they were? They are... Were they angels? Were they guides? I don't use those terms. I think it was a... They were higher dimensional life force, maybe from outside the simulation.

That's the beauty and the simulation. You can pop in and you can pop out. Or they are just another part of the simulation if the physical reality is only part of it and that all the information exists in the field, then of course there are beings in the field that are operating outside of our visual wavelength. That's very true. Yeah.

And that was my first experience of a world that I couldn't see, but that I knew they existed because I was seeing it. My mom came in and she said she didn't see anyone. I said, you can't see these beings. Because at five, you don't have the filter to say, wait a second, I shouldn't be talking about that. Well, so the rest of story, two weeks later, I had a drowning. I walked into a swimming pool on the show. That didn't calculate in my fractal calendar of when you were five.

Wasn't supposed to happen until you were 8.090. I literally, I walked into a pool and just kept walking into the water, got deeper and deeper, and just let go. Were you a spooky kid? I wasn't. What was going on for you? I remember it felt good to let go. And then there was a voice that said, do you want to leave this world? Remember, this is a dysfunctional family.

And I said no. And then somebody pulled me out of the water, and that's when it hurt. When it hurt, when they started, they had to pump the water out of my lungs and my nose and all that. But the point that I was before that happened, it was an amazing, it taught me what it feels like to let go, to absolutely let go. and that has become a very powerful point of reference. Okay, I'm going to ask you another question. When did you first meet God? I don't know.

I don't think of God probably the way that you think of God. Maybe I don't think of God the way you think I think of God. Well, from, this is where the Gnostic texts are fascinating to me. And you have to ask, why would they have been banned and why there's so much energy going to keeping the translations public for, they discovered 1945, the Vatican still is fighting to have some of them never be released. They describe a reality that I think is much closer to the reality that we live in. An ultimate reality, if you want to call it the monad, is the term that they use of pure energy, pure light.

I think that's the God. And that there are forces below that that have created artificial copies. and there are localized gods. Your friend was talking about, I think that's what your friend was referring to. Very powerful beings, but not the being. And every once in a while, we have someone from that realm comes into our world and shows us what's possible as a reference point, not to be worshipped, but to say, remember who you are. Wake up to the truth of who you are. And we've had those throughout history. And I think that's very. very possible in a simulation where somebody in the outside says, hey, they need a little help, and somebody pops in. And the thing about a simulation, you know, say you live 100, 100 years, and you're talking to your guides, and you say, thank you, guide, for waiting, you know,

50 years for me to get back with you. And the guides, they're saying 50 years to you is like a minute to us, because that's the way a simulation works. You can live 100 years here. It might be 10 minutes. in that simulation, and then you try it again and you try it again to see, you know, where you can improve. We are running out of time. We could spend another four hours talking to you. So we should hit record and go ahead and start the conversation then. This is a great warm-up. Do you consider that you have either mediumship or extrasensory ability that is helping you bring all this information into this now? And for anyone who is trying to connect and access their divinity into struggling in life, obviously briefly, given that we're running out of time,

what would you say to them? Well, you just ask two questions. I think we all have that divinity. We all have that potential. I've spent my lifetime healing the hurt and the trauma that I experienced early in life is a path. And I'm a student. I'm still learning. I think the question is, I ask myself, do I love myself enough to open the door to

accepting the truth of my own divinity and what can I do to make that a little easier for the next and a little easier for the next. And that's the way it seems to work. Somebody has to do these things first. It's always been that way. And once somebody anchors a possibility, the four-minute mile, you know that story, it's a beautiful story, once hadn't been achieved hundreds of years. Once somebody did it within the month, other people were doing it because somebody had to do it first and they become the living bridge for those that want to do it, and it becomes easier for the next, the next. And I think we do that for one another.

We're doing it for one another. And I want to thank you for your trust. Because the truth is, you didn't know what we're going to do today, for trust me with your community, and for being the hub of the community that you're creating. Thank you. Because I think it's really important to have honest conversations that, and I don't think really you and I see things all that differently.

When we're looking at, we're scientists, you look at data. And that data, it's the way we interpret the data, you know. But there are a lot of stories out there that want us to see the data in a certain way. And I think the hardest thing for me has been to cross the traditional boundaries that have separated the sciences in the way I was taught in the past, to weave that knowledge into a wisdom that makes more sense and allows us to apply it in the lives of our friends and then the world that we have today. So thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you for the conversation. The book is Pure Human, the hidden truth of our divinity power and destiny. What does your hair do on

the weekends? You know, they told me, they told me when I was in my 40s, if I could keep it, through 40s, it would be okay. And then they said the same thing in 50s. And they said the same thing in 60s. And now They said the same thing in 70s. But does it do this all weekend? In 70s? I'm just happy it's there. Thank you so much, Greg Braden. Really pleasure to talk to you.

Thank you. It's been a pleasure. If you aren't already following us on Substack, check out Miami-Bialx breakdown on Substack. It's where the breaker community is congregating and getting exclusive content that's not released anywhere else. Myam and I are going to look at the fractal time website and we are going to plug in some of our own dates to see where the,

opportunity for new experiences where the situation is ripe for having amazing breakthroughs potentially. We should put in when we started our substack and see what happens and when next we'll have a creative moment. I want to look at the moment that you first started acting, your beaches moment. I want to look at your divorce moment. I want to look at the moment where I first came into the podcast room and had this wild sense of deja vu or remembering that I've described in the past. The first thing you're going to want is when you got Archie. I'll look at when I got Archie.

I also want to look at my brother's accident when I was 14 and see what were the circumstances surrounding that would be fascinating. I have the exact date that we can look at. So follow us on Substack and... From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time in the simulation. It's my and Beolic's Breakdown. She's going to break it down for you.

She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. She won't And now she's going to