Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Part Two: The Science of Messages From Your Soul: NASA Scientist on Telepathy, Mind Reading & What Astronauts Can Teach Us About High-Performance Intuition | Dr. Iya Whiteley

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

What if the world’s most elite pilots and astronauts aren’t just highly trained, but perceptive in ways science still struggles to explain? In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, Dr. Iya Whiteley—Aviation & Space Psychologist and founder of Cosmic Baby Academy—reveals why the cognition of pilots and astronauts differs fundamentally, and what their mental wiring can teach us about intuition, creativity, consciousness, and extrasensory perception. We explore why they’re often driven more by curiosity and creativity than fear or ambition—and why so many are artists or musicians. Dr. Whiteley explains how safety-critical environments sharpen awareness, yet make experts reluctant to share the intuitive or “non-rational” roots of their decisions. From martial arts and embodied intelligence to the idea that intellect may live in the muscles (not just the brain), we unpack how heightened presence allows some to anticipate movement, energy, or events beyond the five senses. Could this explain why experts are studied to understand ESP, even when they can’t explain it? Dr. Iya Whiteley breaks down: - Reports of extrasensory perception in extreme situations - Spherical awareness, synesthesia, psi abilities, and other heightened perception - Why intuition becomes harder to access once we try to explain it - How rigid rules suppress expertise, isolate experts, and block knowledge transfer - Why fear of having our minds “read” may motivate us to clear negative thoughts (& what that says about thought’s power) - Whether mindsets create change, or environments respond to mindset - How internal organs & physiological responses differ in pilots & astronauts - Family Constellation Therapy: what it is & how it works - Childbirth visions & pre-birth communication during pregnancy & birth - Synchronicity & meaningful coincidences: how they form lifelong patterns The conversation extends into the UAP/extraterrestrial phenomenon, where Dr. Whiteley explains how her pilot and astronaut research applies to these encounters. Pilots report instruments switching on and off, unexplained objects in the sky, and real danger from distraction during critical flight moments—yet many fear reporting events due to stigma and professional risk. She shares a striking account of a helicopter pilot who encountered something mysterious while transporting a classified object, and introduces the “Astronaut’s Eye” phenomenon, showing why sharing anomalous experiences is essential to legitimizing them and advancing understanding. This episode challenges the boundaries between science, intuition, embodiment, and consciousness—and asks: What becomes possible when we stop dismissing experiences that don’t fit existing models? If you’re interested in pilots, astronauts, ESP, UAPs, intuition, consciousness, or the future of human perception, this is a conversation you don’t want to miss! Learn more about Dr. Iya Whiteley and her book series, retreats, and courses: ⁠https://linktr.ee/driyawhiteley⁠ Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, I'm Miami-Illick. And I'm Jonathan Cohen. And welcome to part two of our conversation with Dr. Ea Whiteley. She's got a PhD in cognitive engineering, has spent 25 years exploring human performance at the edge of capability. In part one of our conversation, we talked about what is unique about the performance levels of pilots and of astronauts, and what can we learn from their ability to direct attention and perceive things that many of us don't even know exist. We also talked about heightened extrasensory awareness, we talked about synesthesia, spherical awareness, and intuition and telepathy. In part two, we are going to cover synchronicity and coincidence, how it may be more than you realize, as well as a deep dive into family constellation therapy where some unbelievable and profound changes happen.

right at the border of this world and the other, we see how intergenerational patterns can be passed down and broken. Also, can you choose which child you get and communicate with your unborn child? Dr. Whiteley's going to explain how this can possibly be. Here is part two of our conversation with Dr. E. Whiteley. Break it down. What is coincidence? Because you've mentioned it, you know, a few times in different ways. ways, synchronicity, you know, can there sometimes just be coincidence? Because, and it could just be

a different worldview, you know, I've definitely had instances. It happened just yesterday, Jonathan. I was thinking about your son. And literally the next second, you said, my son is calling, let me call you right back. And I said to my son, who was in the room, I was just thinking about Jonathan's son. And he called. And my son said to me, no, I was thinking about his son. And I thought, what is happening? So my son was saying that he and I shared a thought about Jonathan's son and then Jonathan's son called. And the question is, did you share a thought about him because he was about to call or did your sharing a thought make him call me? Did my son give me the thought about your son? Probably. Did I give it to him? Like,

what's going on? I think he gave it to you because you're constantly scanning Fred to see what he's going to do. So I would more suggest that it was that way than him getting it from you. But for me, I don't know that that changes my worldview, meaning I think like that's a coincidence. But what is coincidence to you and what would an expanded definition of coincidence be if we were in more of a dropped in place? Yeah, I like that. And there's a beautiful book, and I don't think there's only one now, but I think it's called synchronicities and coincidences. And there is types of them.

I feel like we can almost expect them backwards or, I don't know, put, analyze, allow them to be meaningful when we analyze our life path backwards or, or, I don't know, put, analyze, allow them to be meaningful. when we analyze our life path backwards or situation backwards. But the more we are open to say, and this is again, going back to Aikido or Habkido, which is a similar approach, is that when we are open to options,

we can see several paths. So it's like standing on the crossing. And then we are perceptive to the next clue that almost like a shortcut to whatever we wanted to be. So it's having an intention, having a plan, doing an action, but not being set on the path. And then that coincidence happens,

which allows us to say, I feel like it's the universe, you know, playing to see if we are watching. This is my take on it. And I don't have other words for it to explain it. But to me, synchronicity is like a coincidence. It's almost a discounting of taking the power out of it. But synchronicity to me is that things come synchronized with, I guess, with our vibration, if you wish, with our expectation,

with our mood, with our tone, with our perception. And then something opens up in the field. This doesn't necessarily explains, you know, the children calling and are snowing. But we are thinking of them in a sense that, I don't know, we had a closer proximity. And if you wish if there was an electromagnetic fine-tuning, maybe it's like, you know, quantum particles. You're being appropriately evasive, but, you know, I want to emphasize, you just mentioned, you know, field, right? Yes.

You just mentioned thought having power, right? Outside of it existing in a localized place, namely, this is what I'm thinking, right? What is that implication? And, you know, don't be afraid to go there because Jonathan goes there all the time and I try and follow him. You know, what is the implication if thought is something that exists in a field? Yeah. So I don't have scientific explanation for it.

So I can only talk about from experience and observation. And that's why I feel that our experience and applied research, which is what I'm interested in, is through observation, making a connection and allowing us to learn from it without explaining it too much. Because once we start explaining, we're losing the ability. Because our mind starts to doubt that it's not possible. So I allow for to say, well, when you last time were, you know, observing instruments or when you were last time, you know, looking this way but felt it that way, you know, how did that feel and, you know, what action happened? So and then bringing that into training situation and to construct similar possibilities where the people can learn the internal signals that.

you could call it synesthesia, because sometimes people don't realize that they're synestides, right? And they're like more than 150 combination of types of pairings that could happen. More than 150. How? Yeah. I don't know. But if you go to the website for synesthesia, they say it's 152 or something last time I looked of what that could be, because it's not just two. perceptual channels that they could mix. And if people have one type, they very likely to have other. So for example, we have a friend who is an absolutely magnificent and talented composer. And so he can see music.

So he sees shapes and he sees colors. And what's coming first? the music or colors of shapes as he's writing a piece. Can be explained. You know, where does that come from? Like, what is a symphony, right? Is it wavelengths? Is it, like, what did it look like to Beethoven?

You know, as you're losing your hearing and you're a composer, can you still compose, right, without your hearing if you are seeing the music as it's evolving? I appreciate, you know, you acknowledging, we don't have a scientific approach yet to be able to understand these things, but also, like, think about how many things that people thought, like, germs, what? That doesn't exist. And like, yes, it does, right? So there's so many things. What would that look like also if we do reach an ability to scientifically measure this kind of field, this, you know, difference in

perception? It would be an enormous paradigm shift for the field of science in general. I agree. And that's why I thought to approach this from another perspective, from experiential. So we all culturally, in every culture in the world, there is an example where there are, you know, women who support birth, for example. So we have doulers, we have people who, healers, who people go to when they have nowhere else to go. you know, when the modern medicine doesn't give you an answer. But, you know, if you break a bone, you definitely want to go get an extra and, you know,

get a surgeon to look if they could, you know, put it right. But yet, for example, I'm very interested in family constellation if you've come across that kind of... Jonathan wants to talk to you all about it. Let's get into it. I'm just going to say right now, and I'll let you explain it. I don't buy it. I don't understand it.

I don't even, I can't imagine a world where Jonathan's talked about it. He's like, well, this person pretended to be my father and I got out all the things I needed to say. It would never work for me. Tell us about family constellation therapy. Also, just for context, I've explained it to her 16 different times. We've spoken about it on the podcast. No. She still has no concept.

I've invited her to join. me she's like I would I can't go because until you experience it no it's very hard to imagine it and once you do experience it and this will make sense to anyone who's listening once you explain it a little bit more but until you become a representative in a constellation and you step into the role of whatever family system the person receiving the constellation is having and all of a sudden you don't know anything about the person in front of you, and yet you feel so intensely in your body, emotions and visceral sensations that you couldn't possibly make up because there's no context for which to make them up. All of a sudden, the veil between the known and the unseen is

so thin that it's frightening. It is frightening. I will agree with you. It's frightening. Let's let Dr. rightly explain it. Absolutely. So I came into it, um, because, I'm always interested in how healers work. You know, what is it? How do they intuit and why there's a cue and people report being well. And, you know, I was growing up and my mom took me to all the healers that they were. She for some reason thought they absolutely need to be healed and that I was frightened, that I was frightened by a dog and perhaps I was cured of that.

I don't know. But, you know, it's sort of the belief is that. that if the child is frightened, it will have an effect on them down the line. And so I have come across, you know, all sorts of, usually it's women and elderly women. And sometimes they were not, you know, I guess not that elderly looking at it now from my position. They were 35, which seemed ancient at the time. Yeah, totally. And but they always, I felt something.

I felt something being in their presence, and they would be whispering. And I would always be listening to what are they whispering? Like, what is this? And a lot of the times they would be whispering about, like, let's say, as the sunrise will set, as the sun will rise, you know, something will happen, and as the sun will set, that will dissipate or something. As the river flows, it will clear, let's say, you know, just almost like attaching. the symptoms to nature. And I came across this not once, and I was, you know, curious about it.

And like, but it kind of remained as that. And so about, is it eight years ago, I think, I heard about Family Constellation, and we had a friend who came from Siberia, and she's a geneticist. I was working on academic city, so it's like a, the most prestigious place for scientists in Soviet Union and Russian Federation. And she was struck by what was happening to the science then, where they couldn't be paid. And she had to find the way to be, you know, basically find the way to income because she was paying for science that she was not being paid, but she was paying for her own experience from her own pocket at the academic cities.

So she came across this method. I don't remember what was the query, but she was very skeptical, you know, being a geneticist and a scientist. And then she stood and she was kind of on the outskirts listening in. But then, ironically, when she was teaching us, and if you know, Jonathan, the background is that the Eugenia, work with generations or what happened across generations. And she says, it don't on me many years later that I am still working with generations or, you know, in a sense, with some capacity of genetics.

And, you know, let's say this is a coincidence, right, as we discussed before. MyNBialx breakdown is supported by superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine, drink more water. There's no real data. There's no game plan. This has happened to me many, many times, especially on the perimenopause journey. That's why we're fascinated by what superpower is doing.

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And we were doing very simple exercise and when I go in, I wanted to experience it in order for me to, you know, in my mind, even if I can't articulate it because that's what I'm interested. I wanted to viscerally experience it so I can tap in. to it. And so one of the constellation we were doing, we were doing something called Approach. Jonathan reminded me the name of the founder, Bert. Bert Hellinger. Bert Hellinger. So he was a, grew up training in religion as a priest, and then he went to Africa to, I guess, you know, share the faith. And then he came back and that's what he was, he brought back to Europe, and I understand that he picked this up from also from traditions

in Africa. And part of his observation was that if families positioned, or when they're talking to each other, if they're positioned in a certain way, that they have a better flow of love through the family, whatever that may mean to us. He was starting to explore with that. And if you place people in a certain position, it seems to be the situation or discussion or the flow or how people feel seem to open up or the release happens. So that physical placement. And so that's kind of one, if you wish, the element of that.

But also when the idea in Family Constellation is that you sit down and you start talking. So there is a request that we are forming the intention or what the query might be. And it's actually quite pertinent to get the request right before you do a constellation. And the request is actually formed not on the question. I want, I don't know, like more money or I want to resolve the conflict. Usually it starts there. Or, you know, I don't know which house to buy, for example, you know, could be very practical. or, you know, whatever that might be.

But what you're going to is that you, you as a master who is holding the constellation, you need to find the feeling of where it was either felt that way, something familiar. It doesn't have to be in childhood. But somewhere where you felt that either what you don't like or what you do like, depending on what your goal is for the outcome. And let's say we have a feeling that, you know, I seem to be getting always into argument with a particular relative. And so you go to that situation where you had that feeling most viscerally right now.

It could be nothing to do with the current situation that you have, but you go as earliest memory. The first or worst is what they call it. Yeah. And you're going to that feeling of what you're experiencing now. When did you recall it first? And it might be almost nothing to do with that relative either. But you go to that feeling as something comes up, which in being trained as a clinical psychologist will take to you years to get there.

But here you get it in an instant through the feeling. So and then the idea is that you go down to that feeling of what you're experiencing. and based on that with a person who is holding the space for constellation, you decide which figures you're going to put in the field. And you start with the fewest number of figures or people. And depending on what that scenario was, where you were filling this first, you start to invite people who would be those figures. And that is done with permission.

And I think that's a key too. So you'll let's say I would come to Jonathan and I would say, Jonathan, would you be my father? And Jonathan would agree or not? I ask him that all the time. It's not weird at all. And so then I would, you know, place my hands on the shoulders at the back and would go with a feeling that I'm having and place them somewhere in the room. Somewhere.

Doesn't matter where. And it's kind of detached from the feeling. And then there's, let's say there's a sibling. And I would say, you know, my. May I am, would you please be my sibling? And that agreement is almost like a gate. It's surrender to an opportunity to be in that situation. So let's play whatever the game would be.

Let's, you know, playing a surfing game. And so you would go in the field. And then somebody would stand for me, for my own figure. And I would also ask them. and then place them in the field. And then we let that field to stand. And people would be positioned in a certain way. And almost first thing that comes is that you see how we,

you know, the person who made a request or I positioned the people. So will they be looking at each other, not looking at each other, whether there will be, you know, turning or not turning to each other. But something happens and you almost feel either like you always, You feel the surge of energy. You develop the feelings for that person whom you're looking at, and you have no precedent for it. So how do we make sense of this?

What is, I mean, I understand that we don't know scientifically, but as a scientist, how do we frame this? And I have ways, I don't know that I believe them, I have ways to frame it, but I'm curious how you view it. I don't have an explanation. I don't even go there, let's say, in terms of trying to explain it. From having these experiences, which was one of my very elating experiences in one of the constellations, I go to Eastern philosophy and read the people's diaries who have felt the knowing,

felt the connection, felt, you know, it's like Diana, I don't know if, you know, Professor Diana Pasolka, who is a professor of religious studies, and describes how saints, you know, have these cities in Eastern tradition, or that's what also Dean Rodin describes in one of his books of these extras. extra abilities that people have somehow once they touch the divine, if you wish, once they believe that they are being touched by or they feel that they are divine power themselves. And so I started reading those people's diaries of how they come to that feeling, what happened to them, what was the event, and then how does they teach others? You know, why do people want to know? how do they describe that experience and how do they explain, you know, people come with very mundane things. You know, like I don't, I feel sad.

I don't know what to do with it. And then they will start talking to them and sadness would lift. And there's no psychology like I would do in a session, you know, available to that. And it's not like in family constellation that a specific phrase was said that was never unsaid and needed to be said. which you could kind of, you know, logically you can say, well, you know, finally, they could have looked in the mirror, you know, I don't know. They could have, you know, had another way of talking. But to me, they describe that there is the loving connection, the Eastern philosophy, that there is this, when you are in a state of love, perception, and acceptance, certain things start to unfold. and release happens.

And the people come to these teachers, to this or people who write diaries of being with teachers, they feel this pool, but also development of qualities of love that they have not experienced before, but they were so familiar that they would start to tear up. And that feeling, almost like we were talking about that, field, you know, the word field, that that person invokes in them because they admire them.

I don't know. Sometimes people don't know why, you know, that happens or why they're pulled to be with that person. And there's no obvious trigger of why the person feel that they've been released, cured, elated or connected or had this divine presence. but a really good example, which I really like is Ram Dass. And I'm trying to think of his Richard Alpert, right? His actual academic, well, like the name.

So he was a Harvard clinical psychologist, and they eventually had LSD, and they wanted to explain what was happening with them. What was that experience? where was that vision, what was that sensation. And so they went to Eastern traditions to see if they have an explanation in traditions. And so in one of the, I won't go into a longer story, and I encourage everyone who is listening to actually go and listen from Richard Alperz or Ram Dass's words. But I very much can relate to his thought process as he describes it when he's meeting his guru.

And so he's sitting with his guru and his guru is telling him that things about his mother that nobody knows. He can't possibly know. So his mind goes in overdrive trying to solve the problem. How could he possibly know? Who told him? Where did this information come from? And at some point when he told him so many things and also tells him in the language that he doesn't speak, speak so that he names it in English, the organ that the reason his mother passed away.

And in this impossibility when the mind can no longer work, something breaks open because it was such pain and tension that he was experiencing, which even happened the night before, which was even more pertinent. So how could he know when he never shared that with anyone? and in that tension. But I understand later what Ramda's experiences with this person is that that person accepts everyone in who they are, no matter what they do.

So it's that being in the field of acceptance. I mean, I don't have another word of love. You're describing God. I mean, you're describing the place that people put God, that there is an entity, a power greater than your, that is in a state of constant acceptance and love of you, right? It's that eternal parent that, you know, that is, and I'm not saying this is necessarily my perspective, but that is our origin, it's our destiny.

This is what religious traditions for thousands and thousands of years, you know, have tried to articulate. And it has been suggested that many of these early mystical traditions from thousands and thousands of years ago, before we even have a record of, you know, the Code of Hamarabi or the Old Testament and things like that, that predating that, there was a place, right, where people would drop into and touch that was a place of love. It was not a place of control. It was not a place of organized religion and the patriarchy and all the rules and restrictions and customs, right? It was a place of love. It's the seat of our consciousness, right? Is the large.

consciousness that theoretically produced us all. And that's what so many people who have near-death experiences are talking about people who have psychedelic experiences and are in touch with that familiar, warm, bright love, right? That unconditional love. I didn't mean to make you describe God, but you're kind of describing God. Yes, and that's interesting. And so what I found is that in my exploration, right? And I'm not the first discoverer, as we know historically, like people experience this in many modalities. But I found that that quality, that field that we create

by experiencing pieces of it through our life. And when they come together in that soup of qualities of love, when we are able to experience or touch that in this unfearful, right, un-wired, open and relaxed space, something triggers and you could say healing or realization or perception or letting go or something happens. And so the family constellation, for example, coming back to that, if, you know, there is a person who is very observant and opened and not directive, actually, that they're not directing, but allowing things to unfold without,

because there's one big rule in Family Constellation that you do not say bad things about the person who is not present, right? So it's all about the idea in Constellation is letting the love flow. And if it flows correctly, there is a release happens at various places. And to me, it's the person who, is in the constellation, experiences what is touched, what they've been having a glimpse of, but they have a bitter, more acceptance of that. And people who are in constellation allow them and their family to be accepted and be themselves, which is that state that we're

describing being loved, unconditionally, whatever happens. And sometimes some of the situations are very horrific that we wouldn't even be able to talk about, but be, accepted and feeling that, you know, allowing that possibility to unfold and allowing that moment of experience, sometimes in Eastern religions what I'm observing is all that's required. It's for that little opening for the quality of love to, you know, presence of God. The notion is not simply like, oh my gosh, I feel like it's my dad. but the notion is that when you place someone in an environment of acceptance, of openness, of that kind of care, something cracks open in them.

I mean, it makes me think of also, you know, the work that we now know to do with people who are in a coma, with people who have different mental capacity than other people, with senior citizens that, you know, in many aspects of our culture, right, are just kind of put away somewhere where we don't have to look at them, it changes the way we think about possibility, not just when we do different modalities, but when we show that we are connected, that we have acceptance, that we have care. Love then becomes this universal language, truly, right? And for many people, they would say, God is that universal language,

which, you know, is not that far off from a lot of the sort of quantum explanations and all the, you know, astrophysics explanations. of the foundations of the universe, you know? That's what came before. I have a very simple example of a constellation that I experienced that really stuck with me because of how simple it was. It was a woman who was struggling with procrastination. And you were like, well, that's a fairly mundane thing. You should like look at all the self-help about how to not procrastinate.

But she couldn't get over this perpetual procrastination. and it was affecting getting jobs and executing jobs and being, you know, available to the life, her life. And what unfolded was a sense of anger that she experiences internally when she procrastinates and then bumps up against the repercussions of that procrastination. In the constellation that played out, her father had this unresolved view. very intense anger that she unknowingly held and then expressed in her own way. It was like these mirrored systems that often unfold without us even realizing that the thing that we're holding is a reflection of some other part or lineage of our family. And what's fascinating to

me about how this often happens is that with the acceptance, with acknowledging, it doesn't have to oh, dad, this is yours and I'm, you know, a blame, but it's more seeing that, having acceptance for him, having love towards him and the pain that he was carrying allowed her to say, I don't need to hold this for you. I don't need to hold it as a representation of being connected to you. I can be connected to you in a way that is honoring of who you are and the pain you've had, but I can choose to do something differently. And then it began to shift. It's extraordinary things happen. And, you know, I witnessed and, you know, in disbelief as well on what I said and how impacted, how it impacted others, having not known any facts, but you just feel it and trusting, not trying to put it through my logical senses of where I could know this, is this the right thing to say, how are they going to be affected?

So if we stop those veils and percolations that our mind tries to barrier, we can actually have those synchronities more often because we're not discounting them. We're not discounting that monkey or that, you know, walking across the screen among the white. But that's what it is. And to me, it feels that feeling those qualities, when the more we are in that state, which is a happy place, if you wish, the more, which is what

people in extreme environments describe, they love it, you know? And when they thrive and everything goes, you know, to plan is it's about excitement to be able to do it. And I think also that, that openness, right? When you say like, oh, why does this only happen for other people and not for me? When someone is open to that, their persinium then opens up. They're open to seeing more patterns, seeing more coincidences, then they form a yoga studio, then it's a cult. Different story. But I want to go into kind of a related field that obviously you're an expert in.

And it directly relates to born knowing how children awaken the sacred and everyday parenting. This probably happens to more people than want to admit it or talk. about it for the same reason that the astronauts didn't want to say, I don't know, I just had an intuitive sense. There are reports of people communicating with their babies before the baby is born. I have a hard time with this, but Jonathan would like to tell about what happened in his womb when his then-wife was carrying their baby. This is before conception. You should be talking to the baby spirit. What do you mean? Oh, I'm sorry. How do you know what baby to get if you don't send out an application process?

But no, I know several people who believe and have experience of dreams, thoughts, a sense, a knowing of that there is a spirit that will come to them as a child and starting to get familiar with that. So wait, hold on a second. But if I'm going to enter this conversation, what we're talking about is that I'm going to go ahead and go there. There's a field. There's a quantum field. There's a place where information exists. Souls exist. Consciousness exists.

And there are, I don't know, souls waiting to be born. And their consciousness exists and they can be communicated. We don't need words. Why would I even care that it's an infant. fetus. It doesn't need words. And you can communicate with that because it exists like anyone else's consciousness exists. Is that the idea? Well, I think back to our conversation with Buda Bedi when she talks about her near-death experience and being in a place where then she saw the choices she made to come back to Earth. And she was in this decision mode. She had technically died. And she was deciding,

do I come back to Earth in my current form or do I start again? And she was shown. She was seeing, a place where souls essentially are choosing their bodies is what she experienced. I imagine it like there's just all these little portals that have little water slides. And above the water slide, there's like a grid and we're like, this is your, this is the person that you're going to and this is where they live and this is what your life might be like. And you're like, I'm going to go down the water slide or not. But what if there is a no time component? No, there's probably this ever.

This is another quality to these interactions. When was your communication, Jonathan, though? And then we'll let Dr. Whiteley explain sort of what her understanding is. I mean, my communication, I was kind of kicking and screaming with resistance because my then-wife was a few years older than me, and she was like, I feel this baby. And I was like, this is not a time for us to have a baby. And so it was like an awareness through her experience more so than me directly. But she would talk about like feeling the presence of this being wanting to arrive. I have a website that I've created. I was inspired by the website that they have called Last Words. So she's a linguist herself and she's collaborating with Raymond Moody. I don't know if you can cross Raymond BD.

Yes. So she's, so her experience was, is that her father was communicating last words, and they were, so he became very lucid, and we're talking about this divide, you know, of seeing into some other dimension.

And so she started collecting, so she made a website and allowed people to submit. their stories of when they were having communications with their relatives or whoever they came in contact before they were crossing. And so, and she collects this beautiful book. I highly recommend going either on the website or look at the book called Last Words. And there is a collection of what people, you know, experience in terms of what's coming or who is there. and there are things that they would know that they shouldn't have known, if you wish.

There were some equally, like with the experiences when people considered to be that physically they died, but they, let's say, in the experience, I think it was North Carolina where they did the experiments and they put something on top of the cupboard or somewhere else where they put some objects. And so they were somehow had a different perception But if you look at Dean Rudin experiments, it's sort of like, did they know this before?

You know, who was seeing it, and when they were seeing it, it's not clear in this time perception aspect. But so that, that intuit me or that inspired me to create a website, which is sitting there as an option. It's called childbirthvisions.com. And it's exactly that what Jonathan is describing is that I started to collect stories like there is a little form that people can submit. And there are a few stories that people who submitted were allowing me to share about how they've met the baby or had intuited something about the baby that would come. And how that matched. In some cases, there's no way of, you know, matching it, if you wish, because it's all retrospective. but I'm interested in people's experiences because as we know, in science, until we have data points, there is nothing we can do.

So it's all anecdotes until we have enough data points, you know, that we can explore. So I'm interested in these in similar way, like in last words, on what the story would, how it would unfold through other people's stories. So this is just a placeholder to inspire other people, you know, to report what they experience if it's such so. So there's a few stories to read about it as well. You've spoken to and worked with astronauts, cosmonauts, pilots. We all know, and if you, you know, have seen Age of Disclosure, the new documentary that came out. Gary Nolan is part of it and Luis Elizando. Who we've spoken to both of them.

We know that there are things that in particular pilots are in certain positions to be able to view in different ways and to track. In terms of your experience working with not just pilots, but people who are traveling to the outer dimensions, right, of kind of our conscious space, are there experiences that astronauts are also possibly afraid to talk about in the same way that they're maybe reticent to talk about in the same way that they're maybe reticent to talk about? intuition or other kinds of perception, are there things that you have a view of when you are in space that might indicate something about some of these anomalous phenomenon? So I don't have a report to say, which, you know, me backing out out of the direct answer, the reason I end up touching this field and interacting with people like Ryan Graves, who are bravely supporting his colleagues and pilots. And America is called ASA, so American for Safe Airspace.

And initially he started a subgroup of experts in American Institute for Aeronautic and Astronautics, so AIS, and they have a group for UAP outreach, which the whole organization has over 40,000, aviation and airspace professionals from pilots to engineers, anybody who works in that domain. And he set up a volunteer group. And I also was contributing as a human factors experts to see of what we can, you know, given all the perspectives, because you want to look at an elephant, you know, from all of the perspectives that you can and all the expertise and tools indeed. And so we were talking with pilots and trying to understand what they were perceiving

because part of my original training was to discern what is the ghost in the cockpit. That's what people were calling things that were happening with the aircraft where they couldn't understand why the aircraft changed the mode of operation when the automation came in first. And we detangled that by being different design philosophy, meaning the engineer thought the plane should fly like this, but the pilot always flew it like this. So the change in logic on how the aircraft changed and what it, you know, vertical speed versus angle of attack and whatnot, when that was become more transparent

on why the aircraft was switching from one mode to another, stop having a ghost in the cockpit. But initially they couldn't understand why the modes would switch off because it will reach an envelope of safety in it, and the pilot would not see that the aircraft is no longer doing what they set it to do. But it started as if pilots don't know what they're doing and what they're seeing, as if they're not trying, as if they're not paying attention, it's clearly a pilot error, but it wasn't. So when this came up and became more prevalent, mostly in the United States because of the

capacity of this brave individuals starting to talk up and not worrying to lose their pilot license of considering that they're either hallucinating or imagining something during their work hours where they should be paying attention and in actual

fact I wanted to see what was it, what were they seeing and and so So because if they're seeing something out of the cockpit and they should be paying attention on lending street, you know, things in the air that could be coming our way, you know, are there air traffic that is coming in the air? So if they're being distracted, that means I am not safe as a passenger, you know, all of my family is not safe as a passenger. And I know, and we know, we discussed today, if the people are worried about something, they're not paying attention to something. else. If they're looking out or in fact don't want to look or don't want to see an unidentified

flying object, they're not going to see other things that they should be seeing. So that, I guess, understanding wanted me to collect anecdotes, which are that called anecdotes, but these are real things that people experience. And the more we can describe them, and I don't know if you come across somebody, a pilot, a helicopter pilot called Jake Barrow. So last year in January, late January, he was on News Nation with Ross Colhart describing his experience of transporting object that he not meant to know what it was. He was just a delivery, you know, picking or picking it up and transporting it. But when he was approaching the object, he felt an overwhelming sense of a, emotion and he started crying and he felt a feeling of elation and love and he was describing it and

you can look at the transcript it's a feeling of love and he says like mother female type of love and he actually in that whole experience he felt that he's not safe to fly and he was reconsidering whether he should cut the mission short and not do the mission. And I gave a talk at Seoul Foundation, which are now being published online, that are coming out sort of in sequence as they happen in November in Italy, by, you know, Gary Nolan is the founder. And so I describe that experience and say how important it is for us to leave an embody the experience before we share it. Because if we are talking to a person who is likely

not believe us or someone that we have to convince, we're going to take out the elements that will perceive us less than who we are or diminish our belief or experience. And because of that, we are missing the data and information of what people experience in these situations. So Jake Baba was so brave, I would say, to talk about this because he's got the guts, you know, to share exactly what happened. And then other people start to, you know, follow him and say, well, actually, yes, I did feel that, but I didn't feel it's manly to share that this allation and this feeling that he felt disabling, but actually later in after that experience, it was empowering.

So it's now empowering him to do his goal, mission, purpose, you know, what he does. And he is, in a way, diving into the dimension. And what we're touching is love again. We're touching those qualities that the best he can explain. And the idea is to let that be part of the data, you know, part of those. experiences, part of the state that we may need to come into in order have those extra sensory perceptions. So I don't know.

You know, I'm open to possibilities and I think, have the experiences, you know, dive in yourself, you know, before you, before I, you know, would judge, I would go and see if I can tap into it, you know, feel it. We've heard you describe astronaut eye where people are seeing flashes, streams, weeks, clouds, sometimes with their eyes closed. Can you describe what you've heard? So this was a phenomena that was experienced by astronauts early on. And so they were not talking about this because they would be considered hallucinations or that they would have be medically unfit to fly or they will, you know, cut their mission short. And people in safety critical profession,

they are very careful in what they report, even if it's pain, you know, like that they're going through. For example, there's a big problem of shoulder dislocation during pool training that they do to prepare for extra vehicle activity. So where they wear the extra vehicle activity suit in the pool, where they're training the procedure of what they do in space and microgravity. but what happens in the pool, they are not floating in the suit as they would in space. They're still working against the medium, you know, of water. So the suit sits differently and it affects the joints. And so some of them have injuries, but they would not report it pre-flight because they don't want to be, you know, and also they don't want to be not performing the pool.

So, and it is. you know, like, but once they start reporting, the problem can be solved. So similarly here, until the astronauts were happy enough to talk among themselves about these flashes that they were experiencing in, when they had their eyes open or closed, they didn't raise this because it was then, I'm not the only one. So this is it. You know, it's like, how can we share safely to the all expansiveness or all the spectra of all of those sensory perception or intuition or coincidences, how can we not even discount the time?

You know, when do we say that it relates to this episode or it doesn't? You know, how can we also consider a time component to be part of it, not just an instant? because a lot of this UAP and phenomena to do with encountering other life forms or how people interpret or even faith-related experiences is that they're not always connected in one single moment. It makes sense looking at that they had other experiences that once they put together they make sense, but they don't make sense on their own.

But it's almost like building up the person to make. a story. So the story is being written, not in the moment, but across lifetime. So these astronauts, when they talk to each other, then then started to look into what happened. And it was cosmic radiation that was actually hitting the retina that created that flash. So there was not flashes that were mysterious. But once we have enough data and we are breaking, enough to describe all the spectra, then we can dive in to see what it might be. So, you know, even if it's, we don't have to boil it down to science and take the, you know, belief and faith and love out of it. But we need to be brave to explore the whole spectrum

and not take out the, you know, things that we think the other person would not understand, would not consider it important. Everything is important when we're exploring. So every detail has a significance. Just like when we are meeting somebody for the first time or making a decision on a life partner or on a job interview, whether we want or not want to spend time with these people. And if there's this gut sense or something is not right,

it's worth investigating and exploring that and not discounting it outright. There's something in there. Beautifully said. We very much appreciate exploring with you, and we're very excited to see what else are we not seeing as we continue to keep all our possibilities open. And also really wanted to thank you for a born knowing how children awaken the sacred and everyday parenting. And also, please tell us where people can find out more about your individual and group sessions you do in terms of the breathwork that you teach. Also, you have really incredible courses.

Parenthood as a spiritual retreat. There's a Cosmic Baby Academy, which is really cool. And also want to mention your Earth Design series for newborn baby development. Where can people find out more about all of these different parts of your research and your work? Well, the easiest is Instagram, or go to Link Tree at Dr. E. Whiteley as one word.

And I use that as a sign for all of my possible social media, but mostly on Instagram or substack, which I'm working on developing, you know, a lot to learn from Break It Down, right? Yes, we're trying to learn as we go. Thank you so much, Dr. Whiteley, really a pleasure to speak to you. A pleasure. Thank you so much for your time and questions. I don't know how to operate in a world where I'm supposed to understand that, like,

there are just baby souls floating around that I could talk to. I guess it's not fair. Like if I believe in anything else, why not that? There's no way to test that. There's no way to like, no. It's really like, what do you want to believe? Do you want to believe that your baby's been waiting to come into your particular life? Okay.

If it makes you feel more connected to them or happier as a parent, like, I don't care. I don't think, like, well, I don't know. Is it like a thing? I don't know. There's this distinction between what is objective, truth, reality. scalable across everyone. And then there is, what is each of our unique experiences

and how does that impact us? As Pete Holmes said in our interview with him years ago, what makes the better story? How does it make you feel? Delusional. It makes me feel delusional. To me, that's like a delusional thought, like that I chose my baby or like,

I don't know, it just makes me feel not well inside. It also makes me think of Michael Singer. Like, do I feel a larger connection to something or am I fighting the universe? If I feel that I didn't have a role in this child coming into my life and not just the creation process, but even more than that, then I will be like, why the hell did I get this kid who does X, Y, and Z when it's frustrating? and I can resist and fight the process. Whereas if I'm like, somehow I had a larger contract to be the guardian steward of this soul and I'm able to lean into that, then how does that change my

parenting when I'm frustrated? How does that change how I relate to them on a daily basis? If that translates for people, that's amazing. And, you know, you, You know, when I was pregnant, you know, in the Jewish tradition, we do. We pray. Like, we pray for the welfare of that child. I sent good vibes out, I guess, to the baby. And, you know, with my second birth, which was a home birth, like, it was like, it felt very, you know, like you have to kind of be locked in to this being inside of you that is trying to get out, you know. I'm very curious

for the conversation we get to have with our breaker community about this in particular. Does this jump the shark? Where's the line? No, I think other things we've talked about have jumped the shark. I mean, look, if it's just about like, oh, your beliefs don't hurt me

and you're allowed to have them, sure, that's fine. But I also think that like people, I don't know, I think there's a profile of people who tend to lean into these kinds of things that I don't necessarily resonate with. I would say for the most part, people that, you know, go to Constellation Therapy, I wouldn't imagine

I would be able to understand that, which I don't. You have a profile and sort of you have a sense of who these people are. It's people like you. There can be very practical, down-to-earth, reasonable people who go and have profound experiences that beg the question, what else aren't we seeing? I would have to be drunk. I would have to be drunk.

No, that's a horrible thing to do at a constellation. But I can't be in my right sober mind and be like... Why? You just don't think... I just don't think... I just don't think that I would be a person to, like, drop into that space of like, oh, I'm feeling it in my body.

I feel... I just, like, don't think so. Let's take an internet pool. How many people are like... Maim should go to family... Constellation with Jonathan, and we report back on the experience. The two of us? I don't want to deal with strangers. That's weird.

Okay. Valerie, producer Valerie, you have to help me get Miam this year, 2026. I'll do it. One of my goals is to get Miam to a family constellation, and we will report back. I'm going to fold my arms and have my pouty face on, see if they can break through that with their magic wand. No one's going to pick you. You're going to get stuck in the corner and just be able to be able to. I can't be with other people.

I freak people out. I'm going to close down their channels. You're not going to. They're going to, like the pilots. If they're noticing me, they should be noticing other things. I don't trust them. I should be able to walk in there naked or in a gorilla suit and have nobody noticed. They should be so dialed in.

Tell us about the gorilla suit experiment because it is a fascinating example of how we miss things that are right in front of us. I mean, it's an example of shifted attention and, you know, we pay attention to the things that we want to pay attention to. Also, I just noticed that you put a light behind you on the wall and I think you thought I wouldn't notice. It's been like five episodes of recording. Look at your shifted attention. Didn't notice. Never noticed that you took that beautiful beadboard that was installed and taped a light onto it. The guerrilla experiment is about shifted attention. I don't remember the specifics, but it's an experiment you're told to watch, like, how many times is the basketball, go back and forth? And if that's all you're

focusing on, you don't notice that there's an artifact of a dude in a like gorilla suit who stands in the middle of the court and like bangs on his chest. And I think like the vast majority of people like statistically significantly don't notice the gorilla because they're not, you know, looking at the whole picture. They're specifically looking at the ball being passed back and forth, which I think all of us, you know, experience these kind of selective attention things, you know, all the time, most notably with the red flags that we paint white in relationships. No, but often we will be pulled to something because our attention is in one direction. And we do. We ignore glaring things otherwise. Sometimes they are conceptual and sometimes they're literal. It's such a good metaphor for life

in so much as what else is available when we widen the aperture or we reduce the filter a little bit. Can we look around? We did a practice on the substact community where we talked about the power of noticing, going and noticing three things that we may not have seen before. And I shared an example of, I did that. And in the garden that I've in front of the house that I've lived at for over a year and half, I noticed that there's a metal pole that sticks out of the ground like three inches that I never saw before. That looks like it had been like sawed off or something.

Like how did we never notice that? It's like there was a flagpole that got sawed off. Like where did this come from? And while that in and of itself isn't, you know, enormously valuable information, it's indicative. What else are you missing? What else am I missing that is literally right in front of me? And how does that expand? What else is happening in a social situation?

What might happen you're desperate to achieve something in life? Where are the areas? Where are the areas that we are not consciously aware of at any given moment? I will say, you know, that what I was deeply moved by was her description of this place of acceptance and opening that seems to communicate with the language of love, which for anyone who is a religious person or sees God, as love, it's very, very consistent with a lot of religious traditions. And if you're not a religious person, that should still speak to you and touch you somewhere. Because that feeling of love, when you look into the eyes of someone who unconditionally loves you, when you have that

feeling, or maybe you commune with nature that way, a pet. I mean, one of the best ways to lock into this feeling is a loving pet. That connection, right? That feeling of love, that opens something up. and I really loved how she said that. Make sure to head over to Substack. I think there'll be a lot that you'll want to check out in terms of extra content and conversation in particular about this episode. So head on over to Biolicbreakdown. com or get the Substack app and type in Biolic Breakdown.

Make sure to join the growing breaker community for content that you cannot and will not get anywhere except Substack. So we'll see you over on Substack and from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's my and biolix breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two.

One fiction. And now she's going to break down. It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down.