Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Part Two: They’re Building A Psychopathic Society. Ancient Faiths All Point To The Cure | Chase Hughes

Episode Date: July 1, 2026

The World’s #1 leading authority on behavior profiling, nonverbal human communication, influence, and persuasion, Chase Hughes, reveals the psychological systems secretly shaping modern society, and why he believes humanity is living through the biggest PSY OP in history.From government manipulation and engineered division to consciousness, DMT, spirituality, and the loneliness epidemic, this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown goes far beyond politics and exposes the hidden forces influencing how we think, behave, comply, and perceive reality itself.Chase explains why anger is the media’s most powerful weapon, how fear and tribalism are used to manipulate entire populations, and why most people don’t realize they’re being psychologically programmed in real time. He breaks down his FATE Model (Focus, Authority, Tribe, Emotion) and reveals how governments, institutions, and social media exploit ancient mammalian survival instincts to control human behavior.He also shares why he believes the global response to Covid was the largest psy op ever conducted, why ostracization is humanity’s deepest fear, and how the threat of social rejection can override logic, morality, and independent thinking.The conversation then takes a profound turn into spirituality, altered states of consciousness, and the nature of reality itself.After 9 military deployments and witnessing the psychological effects of violence and desensitization, Chase began searching for deeper answers about consciousness, meaning, and human connection. He describes his first guided DMT experience as “death by astonishment” and “smoking an alien microchip,” revealing the mysterious “code” he saw during the experience and why it completely transformed his understanding of reality, and saved his life.Chase explores whether consciousness is something we create or something we access, why “everything is consciousness” could explain quantum entanglement, and why some people appear to be “banned” from the DMT realm entirely.He also breaks down the hidden similarities across ancient spiritual texts, the most repeated phrase throughout human history’s sacred writings (including 7 Hermetic Principles & the Emerald Tablets), the illusion of separation, and why modern society may be engineering psychopathic behavior through digital isolation and performative social media culture.Chase Hughes also breaks down:- Why history predicts future government behavior- Psychology of mass compliance- Why social media may be destroying authentic human connection- Whether anyone can truly live authentically anymore- Loneliness epidemic & digital relationships- Why we have more in common with political opponents than with the people manipulating us- What humanity gets wrong about prayer- How perception of reality became the throughline of Chase’s life work- Why manipulation works best when people believe they are immune to itThis is one of the deepest conversations we’ve ever had on psychology, consciousness, propaganda, spirituality, manipulation, human behavior, DMT, media control, social engineering, and the future of society.NCI, the world’s #1 behavior profiling and influence training: https://nci.university/Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hi, I'm I am Bialek. And I'm Jonathan Cohen. And welcome to part two of our conversation with Chase Hughes, the leading authority in behavioral profiling and persuasion, but also someone who's done a deep dive into neuroscience and the connecting points across nearly 200 ancient texts. We're going to talk about that in this part of the conversation with Chase Hughes, as well as his exploration of spirituality and how a psychedelic journey using DMT opened up an entirely new,

view of the nature of reality and even a field of consciousness. Here is part two of our conversation with Chase Hughes. Break it down. My and Bialx Breakdown is supported by Helix Sleep. Summer's in the air and so are all of the allergens that come with it. Summer allergens means you need more sleep, but there are a ton of factors that can prevent us from getting a good night's rest. Night sweats, back pain, feeling the person next to you when they roll over.

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mattress. Go to helixleep.com slash breakdown for 20% off sitewide. That's helixleep.com slash breakdown for 20% off site wide, helixleep.com slash breakdown. One of the other things that we talk a lot about on the podcast is awareness, consciousness, and what we're capable of, like, what is beyond our five senses. And this connects to me from the loneliness epidemic because as a kid, I started discovering energy work at 17, and I had an experience that kind of blew the lid off of my reality where I was like, wait a second, I can sense energy, I can feel energy. And the kids that I was going to school with were 17 and like not thinking about

somatic emotional release or, you know, can you stop time? Can you set intention? Like this was a lot of years ago. And the vocabulary wasn't in the culture at that time. So for me, I was like hiding this little hippie exercises that I was doing because I thought it would make me crazy. And I would try to talk to people. And they'd be like, what the fuck? Like there was just no way to interact with a normal teenager.

I was reading the shaman's way and thinking about like, can you travel to the underworld and have a soul retrieval? And I would like try to bring that up at a party. And people are like, I went to university and people are just like getting hammered. And like, there was a massive disconnect. So I sort of tucked that away and I had that world. And then I didn't do that well in trying to fit into the other world because it felt not real. What opened for you personally when it comes to spirituality? Obviously, your work experience and behavioral analysis and the sciops helped you see what was being misdirected in terms of culture, in terms of messaging, in terms of news, in terms of

the behavior and how people were interacting, but there's a layer deeper than that, and I was hoping you could take us through what broke open for you and what you explored. I'll be super honest. I'm sure you can tell from what I said. I didn't know who you are. Everybody knows who you are, but I don't know, I didn't know who you are. So when I started reading your bio and like doing the research that Valerie helps us do, I was like, wait, I don't understand who this person is. He's got all this knowledge and it's amazing and like, oh, he created all these things and people go to him. But wait a second, why are we talking about the nature of reality? And I think that's so fast.

You're so fascinating to me and my friend Elizabeth has a huge crush on you. And I get it because you're so deep on all these different levels. But yeah, can you talk to us about why someone like you, right? The last person I would think is thinking about spirituality or mysticism or what's beyond the veil or we're all looking at a projection. What happened in your life that took you there? Like, that's just the layperson question. I think it would start with, I did nine deployments. Can you just tell us a little bit about what that means in terms of your story?

Because I think we've become very jaded. We hear like, oh, he was deployed. Can you talk about what of those experiences, as general or specific as you'd like, led to some of the evolution that you've gone through? I think just like seeing the vast, massive chasm between, this life and then how something is over there where they're just comfortable in and daily guts and blood and crazy stuff is just norm for children for children. And then coming back here, it was such a perspective shift that the moment that I started

bitching about something, the moment like in my head even, I'm like complaining about something. I feel like a horrible narcissist, just kind of seeing this crazy comparison in my mind. And after the military, I did my first psychedelic journey. I was a man of science at the time. You know, it was like I was materialist, reductionist, that kind of viewpoint. I was a guided journey with a person that was intended to kind of like, you know, shake the snow globe back up to get a fresh snowfall on all of the perceptions. So this first journey, I was like, oh, my God, I have empathy for, like, the grass outside.

Like, stuff that I didn't think was possible. And then I was, as I understand it with the numbers, I'm the 41st person in the world to do five hours of intravenous DMT. Whoa, that stuff is heavy stuff. I did it because I have a brain disease. I have two brain diseases. I have mesial temporal temporal sclerosis and I have temporal lobe epilepsy. So I was doing everything I can to generate this chemical called BDNF and another chemical called NGF, which is brain-derived neurotrophic factor and nerve growth factor to try to like grow tissue around these dead areas in my brain. Terence McKenna has talked

about DMT. We've talked about it a bit here. Yeah, give us your sort of, you know, primer on DMT for people who don't know what it is. Yeah, I think if you talk to someone who's done it, I don't think you'll hear that person refer to it as a hallucinogen. I just think they call it that because it's in that. They needed a label. They needed a drawer to kind of put it in. It is an ineffable experience. And the way that Terrence McKinnon described it was what you experience is death by astonishment. It's amazing. It's the most profound way I've ever heard it and explained.

three words. But I came out of that and it, just to explain it, it's the experience on DMT is like maybe 10,000 times more real than this reality. What does that mean? Like if you could try and explain it, like this feels real, this is real, like this is real, everything's real, there's water, like I have control of my faculties. What could be more real than that? Yes.

Everything you just demonstrated could also be done in a dream, for the record. So DMT is, it's so hard to explain with language. It's like language is a net that the holes in the net are too big to kind of catch any of that understanding. But it's like this, if we're living in 4K right here in this reality, this is like 9,000. K of reality, of like definition, clarity, and it feels like home. And this is about 100% of people report that inside of this realm that you go to, it does not feel hallucinogenic at all when you kind of teleport to this, whatever. And the way that I explained it to one of my friends recently, he was like, oh, yeah, it's like

mushrooms. I was like, no, not at all. I was like, mushrooms is like you're kind of getting guided by this gentle, usually a woman, female shaman. And this is like you're walking in the woods and you find an alien spaceship and you pop out the main microchip out of the alien computer and then you smoke that. You're smoking an alien microchip. That's basically what it is.

That's the best definition or explanation I've heard. When you had the IV, you're in this state for like hours? Because I've heard it's a very short acting normally. So how did you enter it and like did you slowly get there? Was it like an immediate? All of a sudden it hit you. Walk us through that process a little bit. It's pretty immediate. So it's in your like you have a IV line in and they have this machine that's basically like an anesthesia administration machine with a giant fat ass syringe on it and this thing that pushes the plunger at a certain milliliters per hour rate. So you can kind of just tell them. them the altitude that you want to go. Like you can increase your altitude, you can lower your altitude, but you're in there for five hours. And if you need to pee or something, they could just go and like three minutes later, the DMT is gone. Coming out of this experience, because it feels like

home, it feels so unbelievably like home, that coming out of this experience, I was crying in the fetal position as they were kind of cranking this thing down, because I did not want to come back. And I had this whole thing recorded on video. I asked about I was dead 39 times during this thing. And they'd be like, no, no, everything's okay. But I just, I didn't care either way. It didn't matter to me at all. Like, it didn't matter.

But coming back, it felt like there is no way to return here without developing some degree of narcissism to being a little bit more self-centered. And that was just depressing and weird. Like the bad part of my journey was returning from it. Up there, you're like, oh, my God, this is like base reality. I don't know. That's kind of maybe what I've described it as. But I mean, there's over a thousand neuroscientists working on DMT research right now.

Not one of them thinks that it's a hallucination, not one, which is pretty remarkable. My Ambialx breakdown is supported by Quince. summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, things that just feel good the moment you put them on, but also look effortless. That's why we keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup.

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All on its own. But coming back, it's like I can't fully be in this like, whatever it is. I hate to use like hippie descriptive words for it, but I think it's just like a, like you're breathing and swimming in love up there. Like a, like the most non-judgmental, unbelievable love. like it's the universal language. And you come back and you're like, man, if I live like that here, I'm going to get hurt fast. It's going to happen quick.

Like something's going to happen because I'm not going to be worried about a seatbelt. I'm not going to be worried about all this other stuff that I normally would. But that was the most depressing thing. But coming out of the journey, it was like there is something so far beyond our comprehension. And I think it's it's amazing that we have scientists out there with unbelievable levels of certainty about everything. And like I did maybe six years of neuroscience studying. And if you study neuroscience, every other, I don't know, every five minutes your professor is going to say, as far as we know, or as far as we figured out yet, because we know so little. little about the brain. And I think we just need way more scientists in that in that space because

there's a guy named Ignaz Simmelweis. Have you all heard of him? He invented washing your hands. That's right. That's why. And he was a surgeon that's like, hey, guys, you know, all this poop and blood and stuff all over our hands. What if we wash that off before we jam our hands inside of another human body. They were so pissed at him that he lost his medical license and he was involuntarily committed to a mental institution for the rest of his life. There are some really, really fascinating studies about DMT because, yeah, it is one of these kind of like, you know, there are endogenous sources of it. We are wired, you know, to process, as it were, some really, really fantastic chemicals. And we speak to a lot of people who have, you know, near-death experiences and

one of the hypotheses about this feeling of love and belonging and oneness and finding your true, you know, place in the universe as a soul, you know, may be the result of, right, some sort of like DMT explosion or fireworks that's happening when the brain, you know, is in a particular dead state, what most of us would say. But I want to be clear that this is not a recreational drug that typically, you know, that people are doing to like feel good and like, because what you're describing is is a very specific state. But I think there's a lot of context around it, which obviously you've talked about. But I think one of the things, you know, that we do need to also provide framework around is like, you know, serotonin's a very powerful neuromessinger, right?

And so I think what's interesting and important is being able to separate some of that physiological input from the meaning that we derive from it. And I think that's sort of where, you know, the rubber hits the road here. You know, we've joked about this in passing, but there are certain images that people who experience DMT see. There's certain things that do not seem dependent on an individual's experience. or trauma history, it seems that, and I'm just going to like, I'm trying to like, you know, simplify it as much as possible. The idea is that what if there is a reality that exists beyond this one, that you can tap into in a variety of ways and that what is revealed is something that is there all along, meaning it's already here. We're just, you know, we've got our VR headset on,

and we don't even know that it's on, right? I think everybody would be fascinated if there are any particular images, right, or things that you saw. But I'm also wondering if you can speak about what you felt because as someone who's lived the life that you have with the trauma that you've experienced, the journey that you've been on, the success you've had, like if you were to say to us,

there's another reality, there's another truth, what is it? Like, what's underneath all this? For those of us who don't get, to have this experience of peeling back that curtain the way you did. My first time I ever tried DMT, I was like, you know what? Narcissistically, I was like, I want to know the secrets of the universe. And you kind of go to this other dimension.

They're like, all right, bitch, here you go. And they give you everything. And you come back with nothing. You're like, oh, my God, I saw everything. And then your friends are like, tell me. You're like, I don't know. I can't remember any of it. So it's definitely strange.

And now we have this laser experiment where you can see code in reality if you shine a laser on the wall. And Danny Gold, the guy running is a good friend of mine. He figured out one day, I have no idea how. But if you shine a fat, diffused laser on the wall that you can, A, see through the effing wall. And B, there's like code, like Japanese alien, looking code written on the wall and it's completely static. Meaning the experiment is we are shining this laser light on a wall. And the question is when under the influence of DMT,

can we find any replicatable, right, reports on what people on DMT see when they look at this laser on a wall? Is that right? Yes. And so far they have. You're telling me you see through the wall. And you can see, well, the code is written like behind the wall. It looks like a foot or a few feet behind the wall. So you're seeing through the actual wall into some other realm. So like you get close to the wall and you can look down in.

You come down and like look up into the wall in all directions. But here's the big thing. When you're on a hallucinogen, things morph and move around and change and all this kind of stuff. This code is permanent and static. So like if I move the laser up on the wall, it just reveals different characters. Like I'm just shining a light on a map. For those of you who have seen The Matrix and there is a notion that there's a completely separate reality that exists as opposed to the one that you're in. And I'm just going to spell it out since I think like, you know, I think if I'm understanding this correctly, the notion is what if there is a

of sorts that is the universe that we live in, and we are living a physical manifestation of a code that has been written. Think computer code. Think of scrolling numbers. Think of the matrix, right, all this stuff. So the idea is that, and I don't know if this is true, but I'm just like from what I've studied and what I've learned about you, that when you take DMT, it is opening a portal to a different level of, you know, conscious awareness, including one where you are theoretically able to see or access the code. It doesn't mean that we know how to read the code, but it looks like some sort of language

and it looks like Japanese characters is, right? And it's not a hallucination in that it's moving and it's perception. It's something that people frequently report in a very specific way that is in theory like, what if we've peeled back this layer of what we think of as reality and what it actually is

that reality is is a code that's been written that we're living. It rips the certainty out of your body. Like, you're just like, I don't know. And then when you have somebody who hasn't done it, they're like, oh, I know what's happening. It's peridolia or something like that.

Which is our tendency to see faces or hear sounds in static and see patterns. But they've lined up 14 people, I think, maybe more. and like draw a circle on the wall with a Sharpie, and they all see the identical symbols. So the weird thing is that when you stick your arm up in front of the laser,

and I profess to know nothing about what the hell this is. It's just fascinating. The code changes to a different type of code when it's going across your arm or tissue of some kind. So we don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. But there is a absolutely there is a code there. And I think it's 100% of people see it.

It's hard not to extrapolate a little bit of meaning. Like you come back from that. It's based on just even our science fiction movies. You're not like a little bit leaning towards there's just this code that is the fabric of reality. It's like how do you stop yourself for making meaning or what? meaning might you have made even if you're uncertain about it? Every time I start leaning in one direction, I'm like, what a moron. Like, you and I'm an idiot.

I'm this tiny little hairless ape trying to figure out this reality. But I think something about what we're seeing might be our brain projecting the substrate of consciousness, of what consciousness is. or maybe i don't think it's an element of that wall i think it's more of an element of how we're projecting something on a consciousness so maybe the code is how our brain is how consciousness is projecting this i don't know um but that's kind of what i lean towards when i'm thinking about it in private thousands of people have tried this we're seeing this code uh that's absolutely there you can shine it on a wall or whatever. And some of it, some of my initial belief was that maybe, maybe, this like massive bath of high volume photons that are just smashing against this wall because it's like a high volume laser is maybe doing something to the wave function collapse feature of reality.

and maybe it's just disrupting it enough to where we're seeing the absence of wave function collapse, which will require a whole other myam breakdown. Even anything that you perceive in that state has a lens on it, right? Like that already has a lens, which is why. And this is one of the features of a variety of psychedelic and transcendental experiences, even those without the use of drugs. Not being able to describe it is actually a feature. right of an experience that is very you know high level and look I think a lot of people especially

social conservatives would be like that's ridiculous that's a bunch of hippies just like talking about being high that's not what this is right this is talking about an experience that cannot always be articulated because it has to be get ready for an uncomfortable word felt it has to be felt right we get a felt sense of connection we get a felt sense of safety for many of us we call it that felt sense of God, home. You said it feels like home, right? And that that coming down from coming back is not just the serotonergic drop, right? It's that notion of, oh, wait a second, if there's a place that feels like this, I don't want to come back, which is what almost every single NDE survivor will say. I don't want to go back. And it's usually some light, some force that says

this is going to hurt, but this is what happens next. And then they wake up, right? And everyone's like, you, we're dead, right? So that notion is what many people seek solace, you know, in. It's why we pray. It's why we get on our knees, right? We're trying to get back home. And yes, it's okay to have a scientific view on this, which I think it really, really helps that you have that to say, guess what? That oneness is what literally got us here. Millions and billions of years ago. And you know, Buddha said this. He said the Dow that can be spoken is not the Dow. That feeling of wanting to return home and not wanting to come back here. And I've never, never once met anyone who has been on DMT and come back with a lot more certainty to where they're like, oh, I met,

I met Aunt Phyllis up there. She was up there waiting for me. She had, she had her famous spaghetti casserole, I've never seen any shit like that. So there's something to it and there's something absolutely ineffable where it feels unbelievably irresponsible to even try to describe it for me. It feels it feels super irresponsible. How has your life changed? Like I'm picturing you walking around the world, you know, with this experience, but you're a married person, you have children. and what's your interface like with other people after experiencing something like this? And what does your brain feel like?

You know, does it feel like this was, you know, a treatment that has helped you? Yeah, I think that it actually saved my life. I was at a point of like six or seven seizures a day. And for anybody who doesn't know what a temporal lobe seizure is, it rips your ass out of reality really quick. You're not laying on the floor, like jerking around and stuff. you're just kind of like it just basically shuts off your body and you're just kind of like sitting there drooling for a minute or two.

Massive amounts of amnesia, motor control loss. And since I did that DMT, yesterday was day 180 of absolutely seizure-free, no cognitive impairment, nothing. And when I've come back, the way that I see other people, it was every time I look at somebody, someone else, it just feels like that's us. It's all us. We are all us. Teaching someone morality is unnecessary if you have the mindset of like that's me, that other person is me. Not just I can see myself in them, but like that's, that's hurting us. The word us is like, was just never in my head before that experience. And I come back and that's how I kind of see everybody with that us lens. You've also described that,

there are people who try and spend too much time there that get locked out. The admins ban your ass, yeah. Can you explain that? Like, it's kind of unbelievable. Is it the little green men? Is this where they come in? Probably the jester, the joker, um, archetype because we all, I mean, there's, there's only about 14 different archetypes.

And every human being for 4,500 years has seen the exact same archetypes, same, same beings or whatever they are. Um, but there are thousands of reports. of these people who are kind of abusing it, not like abusing it, but they go in with a lot of ego, they're using it recreationally all the time. And I think they use it with no reverence. And these are all my own words, but like they have zero reverence for this, for the sheer size of this molecule. Like, it's big. It's a big, big molecule. But there are thousands of reports where basically they get up to this little place and somebody, maybe it's like one of those doors at a nightclub where they

slide the little thing open and they're like, hey, you know what? You're not allowed back here anymore. The moment that happens, you can read this in thousands of descriptions. Their journey, that little DMT experience instantly ends. And they can take a hundred hits. Three hits is a DMT journey. They can do a hundred hits and nothing happens. So their body no longer is capable of like going back into that realm, period. This is fascinating because it feels like something that As a scientist, I can wrap my head around, right? And maybe the mechanism is outside of reductionist. 100%.

But it's basically these guys, like, they get banned and they essentially can't go back, which is weird knowing this because just, I think, a year ago, they proved in rat studies that DMT just explodes into this cascade through the body at the moment of death, which led some people to believe that this is maybe this is the transporter molecule that kind of sends you up there to go be with Aunt Phyllis and her spaghetti casserole. When you die, is there lucidity? I mean, I think it's part of the question, right? We hear of people who are in a state of dementia and they'll often have this lucidity right before death, right? Like, meaning they're not speaking, they're catatonic, like we're in the stages of rosary and whatever, you know, and all of a sudden

they're like, by the way, you know, here's the recipe for that casserole that you love. So the question is also kind of chemically, like, right, what is happening? And why does the brain want to spit this out, right? What is it? Why do is, does it to ease the pain of death? If someone's not even in a conscious state, does the brain just do it anyway? If I were to try an anthropomorphize DMT, it's a truth teller. Yeah.

Right? Like it, it sees. Yes. It's the eye of Sauron, right? Like, it sees your true intention. It can, I mean, it's literally the best science fiction conversation, right, that you can have. There's something that sees you. It knows you can't pretend.

You can't fake it, which is fascinating because Chase Hughes is an expert in people faking it, right? And like, and what we try and project and the things that we try and hide. And this is like this chemical that says, guess what? You cannot hide from me, right? It's very true. And I think anthropomorphizing it might be what we needed. It does feel to everyone I think that's ever done it, it feels very, very sentient, like something about it. And then the ultimate question, which we don't have to debate here, I just want to plant this mind virus in your head before too long here.

Is DMT conscious or is DMT consciousness? It's like we're starting to prove with this stuff like from Roger Penrose and all these. new theories of consciousness of like are we consciousness users or creators and that's like the ultimate question or the ultimate are we just consciousness itself where do you sit on that spectrum if you had to if you had to pick one i would say we this is all consciousness so like if you take what is going on in a dream like if you think of your dream you have to manufacture fake eyeballs in your dream to see through. Why? And you're seeing light bouncing off of stuff in your dream, and there are no photons present.

And you can walk over and test everything that Miami were talking about proving something is real. You can do all of that in a dream. Every single thing that you do here on Earth to prove that something's real, you could do it in a dream. So the ultimate way to look at this, if I could take you on a quick thought experiment, 60 seconds. Let's say there's a gumball machine in your dream. let's say this gumball machine is like 14 feet away from you and somehow I show up in your dream real quick and I'm like myam how far away would you say the gumball machine is you're going to say it's like 10 15 feet something like that then I say okay what is the gumball machine made out of

you say glass there's sugar in there steel there's some quarters inside of it but then I tell you it's a dream then I show you that it's a dream then you're like oh okay this is cool I'm lucid dreaming right now Then I asked the question again, how far is the gumball machine from you? There is no distance because you're creating it. And then I say, what is the gumball machine made out of? It's made out of consciousness. And so is your entire body. And so is the space between you and the gumball machine.

It doesn't exist. It's all made out of consciousness. And you can still do everything in that dream, just like you would in this reality, to prove that it's all completely real. I love this example. And also, you know, the name. nature of this example is a linguistic and semantic trap because you're you're essentially asking me to put words to a concept that I know, right, is a separate dimension. Our brain is manufacturing

things, right, to approximate some experience that's happening in that state. It's funny, a friend of mine is going through a rough time and it's worse in the morning. He feels worse in the morning. He said, why is it worse in the morning? And I said, because you've just left an altered state, right, where our consciousness goes. Like the reason that there's a Hebrew prayer that you say, first thing in the morning is, thank you for giving me my soul back, because it leaves. It goes somewhere at night, right? It's drifting around. Everything is coming out of that state in the morning, you know? But just a thought experiment of, if you can see it in a dream, the distance that we perceive, like if there is no distance in a dream

and then we come up one level from that that might explain quantum entanglement that distance might not exist. Who knows? But I don't entertain any of those, but if I had to pick one, that would be the one I pick. And also just since you are a neuroscientist, as it were, the research on NDEs and DMT is fascinating

because they're doing kind of a quantitative analysis and a qualitative analysis, I guess, of kind of the overlap and that kind of Venn diagram. There's also an incredible case study of an individual who had an NDE and also had experienced DMT. So him, and it's a, you know, these are clinical papers and legitimate journals. So there's incredible research also for anyone who's listening and wants to understand the modeling that we can do of DMT. And some of that overlap with near-death experience is really, really fascinating. Chase, the other thing that you've done that pairs very interestingly with your exploration in consciousness, DMT, is that you've spent an enormous amount of time exploring

ancient texts. Give us an idea of the insight derived from trying to map what was shown by these ancient texts that were written thousands of years apart, often with no way of interacting. Are there similarities? Are there codes maybe similar to the DMT, but are trying to give people insight or clues on how to come out of some of the traps that we find ourselves in today? The first was, I think we took, I don't know, several hundred of these ancient texts in different languages. So we kind of put this all into an AI. And my first question was, what's the most repeated phrase in all ancient texts? Mayan Popal Vu, the Egyptian stuff, the Yoga Sutras, the Vedic texts, the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, which is a huge one, a very influential one.

The most repeated phrase in every single ancient text is do not fear. Can you say more? Do not fear? Is it always the same reason? I know in my tradition, I do not fear because God is with you, meaning you're never alone. Don't I leave Eloy what are sacred texts trying to tell us about fear in general besides don't have it. Yeah. In the Christian and I think Jewish Bible in the Torah, and even in the ancient Christian, which used to be actually a Hebrew book is called the Septuagint. Even in the Septuagint, it says do not fear over 300 times.

And it's not always for I am with you. And in the King James Bible, it says three, do not fear 365 times. But I think what it's saying is, and we're going to get in some Alan Watts territory here, but I think what it's really saying is like you're afraid of nothing. Like you're afraid of something that is meaningless. And it's not that big of a deal. Like there's stuff going on that after your little, you're a little super important animal body is dead, then you're going to, it's consciousness is still going to be there.

Like something like that is, consciousness is going to be eternal. But the coolest thing was that we went through it another time, and this is not in that YouTube video that I made about the ancient texts. And I said, find every time that a person asked God, the universe, the heavens, fill in the blank, for help. And it worked. We found every prayer and every, you know, prayer plus every thesaurus word that you can throw in there for prayer. And every time it worked. And they said there are four elements that it found that every single one of them

in all the books had in common. Just four things. Which is massive. And we'll cover that on the next episode. Stop it! So they said the first thing was an acknowledgement of the vastness of the universe and the smallness of the self. Okay? So that's, That's piece one to the ultimate prayer formula hack, if you want to call it that.

Step two was a direct ask for something that was not selfish. So the prayer had to be about something that was for the greater good, something to help others, something to help the all. If you want to go hermetic with it, let's, let me try to help everything. And number three was complete surrender of it actually happening, which would go back to number one. You're the all. I'm not that important. I'm just asking for this one thing. I completely surrender the outcome. I'm not dependent on the outcome. And number four was repetition. Because guess what? The human brain likes repetition. And maybe the big brain up there does too.

Like ritual is a way to get into rhythms. And also traditionally prayer has. physical movement, so you're also sematically remembering that connection with source. I'm small. This is big. I'm asking for something that's for everybody, but I completely surrender the outcome, and then I'm going to start, you know, I'm going to do it again. I pray that prayer again. And it's the opposite of the way that I think most people go about doing that kind of stuff. They're like, oh, I need to manifest a million dollars. I'm going to go to that seminar that's going to teach me how to manifest. And manifest. And manifest. with those essential oils and all that kind of stuff, which I'm a huge fan of essential oils.

But I think it's the opposite of how we pray. It's typically, I am in this condition. I need this to help me and all those like, oh, I'm going to, if you can just do this one thing for me, I'll never eat salt again or I'll never, all of this like crazy promises that like the gambling, those are called gambling. And the way, the way that AI defined it, I have this kind of a specialized AI that is made for researching text. It defined it as the modern prayer is called the vending machine model of prayer, which I thought was such an amazing name. Like it treated prayer like a vending machine.

But those are the four things. And I think it's simple. It can fit on a Post-it note, but I think it's deep and it's really profound. Because every time the AI spat this out, I was like, show me every single reference, give me the page number. I don't want you to hallucinate any of this. So we had to kind of check it, which we did.

And it was accurate. That's amazing. I actually call it, funnily enough, I call it the gumball machine model that a lot of people have of God, that if I put in my quarter, I will get the gumball that I want, and it will be delicious. And that's actually not, at least it's not the way my God, you know, operates. So it's just a funny, a funny gumball moment, which some people would say is proof that, like, we're all connected and consciousness exists.

You put your quarter and get a Werther's original instead. It blows your mind. Chase Hughes, I'm so glad that you were here with us and that Jonathan introduced you to me. I apologize for not knowing all the incredible things you do, but I'm trying to catch up. Where can people find out more about NCI? Where would you like people to go to find out about all things you? Yeah, just my YouTube channel. It's just my name.

You can go to Chase Hughes official is my YouTube channel. or NCI. University is our website where we have all the training. And if you don't want to go into the spiritual stuff, I do a lot of crazy interrogation training and that kind of stuff as well, which we didn't talk about here. I mean, there wasn't enough time to cover it all. Also, I have your behavioral table of elements pulled up,

and I think I want it tattooed on my entire back so that people can know what's happening all the time. There's so many incredible resources on your website. And just really such a pleasure to get to speak to you. Thanks. Likewise. Make sure the tattoo's not on the lower back. And send picks, Jonathan, after that. Well, Jonathan, I hope you've enjoyed doing this podcast with me because I now want a podcast with Chase Hughes. I think you'd be a great addition to the show.

I think I make too many jokes for him, but I really enjoyed talking to him. And I did that thing that I hate when people do to me. Like, I don't know who you are. But I wasn't telling him that to be like, you're not that famous because he's very, very famous. I just wanted him to know that I came in with no. preconceived notions about who he was or what we were going to be able to tackle. And there's so much more we didn't get to, which I do hope he'll give us an opportunity to speak with him again.

But I just couldn't help this road that, you know, we went down with him and just wanting to hear so much about it. Let's talk about some universal truths. Jesus, Luke, 1721, the kingdom of God is within you. Rumi from a different era. You are not a drop in the ocean. You are the entire ocean in a drop. Kabbalah creation is one emanation divided only in appearance.

That's pretty good. It's like been a minute since you've recited Bible quotes to me. It's a new segment at the end of episodes. Stick around for the Bible quotes. Quantum physics, everything is one field fragmented only by perception. I think we need a wheel. Like if I were to ask, if I were to ask the universe for a present, I'd like a wheel of all the different religions that exist or have existed.

And I'm going to spin it. And whatever it lands on, Jonathan, you're going to give us a quote, inspirational quote. This notion, I think many of us, especially those of us who, you know, live in the modern world, believe in science, love numbers and, you know, words and all the things that we have. many of us, I would say most of us, you know, believe that people who lived thousands of years ago did not have the knowledge that we have. They didn't have the information that we have. And if they knew the things that we know, they'd be able to explain earthquakes and why things happen and, you know, like, oh, that's very cute. It's very, I mean, it is. It's a little bit patronizing, right, to say that all of those indigenous cultures, right, they just didn't understand.

the things that we understand. And it's very sweet to read about the myths from, you know, ancient Greece and all these things. But that's not really real. And what these texts are saying is that no matter what you develop in thousands of years that makes you think you're in control, you're actually not. Because there is something much bigger that only, and this is not just me being hopeful, people who lived without the distractions that we call modernity, inevitably were far more in touch with nature, with the seasons, and with a sense of, I don't, autonomy about their spiritual identity and connection to the universe. Like, how could you not be? they had a lot of time to pick berries and make baskets, right?

They had a lot of time to hunt and survive, but for there to be social circles where typically, you know, women and children would, you know, spend time together and that one dude who couldn't see because he was nearsighted and they just didn't know. But that's like kind of how, you know, we were structured is to be in touch with the land

and all the things that it brings forth. And, you know, I think of people like David Sinclair and I think of all these like incredible people and longevity experts and all this stuff. And like when you think about what we really need, it's a lot more of what Chase Hughes is talking about that he was able to get in touch with, right? Feeling like you're part of something, like feeling loved. We had a lot more time and interdependence with the people around us. You needed everyone working together in order to survive. And so the bonds were strong.

Now the scariest part of what I heard today was the, fracturing of society creating people who truly don't believe they need one another. Or they don't care about the impact they have. You know, I thought about the person driving, you know, erratically. I mean, this is just in my lifetime, you know, if someone, let's say, wants to cut you off, it used to be like, oh, that's weird. And there used to be a little bit of shame. Like you could see, they were kind of sneaking around. People now, at least in Los Angeles, seem to take tremendous pleasure in cutting you off and also like laughing in your face and giving you the finger. Like that just happens like in LA. Am I right? People in the room who live in L.A.

It's like there's some like perverse performative like kick in the nuts that like I blame jackass culture. Well, I think there's a performative like mocking and laughing at people who have personal injury, hardship. We've glorified violence to the point where it becomes comedic. And, you know, you don't like, I used to say to when I was like watching these movies, these violent movies, I'm like, if someone gets hit that many times in the head, like they actually have permanent brain damage and they cannot just get up and get their gun and attack again. You're just a laugh riot. I've watched those movies with you. You don't let anyone enjoy them. All right. One more quote. You get to say who, who it's from. Unless a man dies to himself,

he cannot live. I mean, like Braveheart said, every man dies, not every man really. lives, I'm picturing Mel Gibson. Oh, Braveheart? No, it's Jesus, but very close. The bravest heart of all, some might say. For more quotes, just like this, we'll put them on Substack. Check us out, Myambialics Breakdown on Substack.

From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's Myambiolyx breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience Ph.D. or two. One fiction. And now she's going to break down. It's a breakdown.

gonna break it down