Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Re-Air: Are We the Last Generation of Pure Humans? How To Maintain Our Unique Potential | Gregg Braden

Episode Date: July 31, 2026

This week, we’re revisiting one of our most popular episodes from last year with Gregg Braden, best-selling author, scientist and pioneer in the emerging paradigm bridging science, social policy and human potential, where we discuss humanity’s future, his theories on the transhumanist agenda, and what he considers the urgent fight to preserve our human potential.In this eye-opening conversation, Braden warns we may be the last generation of pure humans as artificial intelligence and digital surveillance race ahead, threatening to sever us from our consciousness, our DNA, and even our souls.He unpacks the manipulation of media algorithms, emotional programming, and disinformation campaigns designed to divide humanity and dull our innate heart-brain coherence. From simulation theory and the Mandela Effect to his groundbreaking fractal time calculator that forecasts future global patterns, Braden dives deep into the spiritual and scientific underpinnings of this global shift.He also shares profound personal insights, including his near-death experience, interdimensional encounters, and his understanding of the spiritual meaning behind dementia. As society stands at a tipping point, Gregg Braden invites us to awaken our inner technology, reclaim ancient wisdom, and remember that love, not AI, is the most powerful force in the universe.Make your summer wardrobe feel easier. Go to https://www.quince.com/breakdown for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.Go to https://helixsleep.com/breakdown to receive 20% off sitewide, 25% of Luxe Mattresses and 30% off Elite Mattresses.Upgrade your kitchen with Our Place today. Visit fromourplace.com/BREAK and use code BREAK for 10% off sitewide.Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hi, I'm I'm Bialik. And I'm Jonathan Cohen. And welcome to our breakdown. Today we're going to revisit one of our extremely popular episodes from last year with best-selling author, Scientist Pioneer in the Emerging Paradigm Science, Social Policy and Human Potential, Greg Braden. We discuss humanity's future, his theories on the transhumanist agenda, and what he considers the urgent fight to preserve our human potential.

Greg warns that we may be the last. generation of pure humans as artificial intelligence and digital tools race ahead, threatening to sever us from our consciousness, threatening to change our DNA, and even change our access to our own souls. He unpacks the manipulation of media algorithms, emotional programming, disinformation campaigns that are designed to divide us from our humanity, and to dull our inherent instincts, our heart-brain coherence. We also discuss simulation theory, the Mandela Effect,

and his groundbreaking fractal time calculator that forecasts future global patterns, as well as the spiritual and scientific underpinnings of this global shift. He also shares something that he does not usually talk about, including a near-death experience, interdimensional encounters, and his understanding of the spiritual meaning

that we can find in those with dementia. With society standing at a tipping point, Greg Braden invites us, to awaken our inner technology, reclaim ancient wisdom, and remember that love and not AI is actually the most powerful force in the universe. If you enjoy spiritual content

with a scientific understanding, join us on Substack. MindBialx Breakdown on Substack for content you cannot get anywhere else. And now please enjoy our episode with Greg Braden. Break it down. I think a good place for us to start.

And I want to get to specifics of the book. But I think it would be helpful for people to hear what's your mission? Like, what is your perspective that you sort of enter all of the work that you do from? You know, my mission and my perspective is to love this world, love this world and the people this world into peace, into the peace that I know is possible. I have, it's more than just an interest, I think probably because of my heritage. I'm Cherokee blood in Hebrew. blood. Both traditions have known a lot of war and a lot of suffering. I think a lot of my viewers know that I was working in the corporations in the defense industry during the Cold War years.

It was a really frightening time in the history of our world when the superpowers came like this close to doing the unthinkable. And there's no space there because they actually pushed the button twice to release nuclear weapons on civilian populations and twice the tech failed for mysterious reasons. the whole conversation around that. But I always felt if we know where to look into the past and if we know how to look at what those who have come before us have left for us, that we would find the way to perhaps end the hurt, in the suffering, in the atrocities in our lifetime that we all have seen in the

20th, and now it's repeating again in the 21st century. and my passion has been to view our past, not simply as an ancient and obsolete way of thinking of things, which is what I was taught as a scientist. I was taught, you know, that's back then, we're modern people now. And what I tend to see is a continuity. Is the stuff old, yes. Are the text and the traditions old, yes. Are the obsolete?

Absolutely not. And if we can begin to view that continuity, we give our, ourselves a framework to build the kind of peace. And honestly, I think the only way it's going to happen is we've got to think differently about ourselves. And the better we know ourselves, I think, the better choices we make unless we fear one another, unless we fear change in the world. So, yes, it's about the world and really it all comes down to us. It's beautiful. That's a beautiful framework. And I think one that most of our viewers would absolutely support and get behind. I guess I'd love for you to start, I think we should just like dive right in.

Where does love fit into the philosophy that you sort of approach all aspects of science, history, the future? What is love? For me to talk about that, let's talk about this book. And I think it will come out pretty clearly. Okay. I can start where I was going to start. All right. The book goes through 70 truths.

And they're woven into different aspects of this story. I think we'll go chronologically. So the first one I want to talk about, by the year 2030, we will either have awakened to the truth of our untapped human potential, or we will be locked into a society of hybrid humans that has engineered away our powers of creativity, emotion, empathy and intuition. This is just in the introduction. I just want everybody to know. This is, you know, kind of the framework that you're setting. Tell us what you understand based on the current trends of

thinking. What are we headed towards? Well, I want to say, first of all, this book, I wrote this book before I gave it to the publisher because we have had issues in the past of publishers pushing back on the content. And I felt that what we're going to talk about here is so vital. It's more than interesting. Yeah, it's fascinating, but it's vital to our existence. And it begins with two parallel themes in the book. So let me address that, and then we'll go to this directly. There's two parallel themes in the book. One is that there's a concerted effort in our world right now to replace our humanness with technology. And that's no surprise. I mean, we all see that. From AI in our lives to computer chips in the brain, chemicals in the blood,

RFID chips under the skin, nanobots moving through the circulatory and the respiratory systems and on and on, the irony is that the technology that we're being asked to accept into our bodies, with the best science in the modern world is now showing us, is that our own natural biology not only meets, but in many cases it exceeds the capacity of the very technology we're being asked to replace ourselves with. And a lot of people don't know that. And that's the second theme of the book, awakening to the potential of who we are. The catalyst for that awakening is what we would call love. Love means different things to different people.

And in the book, the theme of the book, and this is a long answer to a short question, but I want to lay this out and then we can tie into everything that you're going to go through with those questions. There's a theme in the book that a lot of people are uncomfortable with. And the word is divinity, because for many people, they link divinity with religion. And, you know, I can see where that would happen. There are schools of divinity that do just that, and they're good schools. The contemporary definition of divinity, and this is fascinating to me, it simply says, divinity is our ability to transcend perceived limitations.

So transcend means become more than perceived. Most of us are living limits in our lives. are not even real. We are indoctrinated to accept those limits through academia, through our family, our friends, our community, our heritage, our religion, obsolete science, I mean, all kinds of places. But they're not even real. So divinity, in its truest sense, is our ability to be the best version of ourselves. And that's where this book is so fascinating to me, because there is a concerted effort to keep us from doing that, to veil our divinity. Let me explain. Let me exactly. just give a couple of examples of when we think of divinity, many people think it's a peripheral

experience. It's actually foundational. A divinity is our ability to imagine. That is an expression of human divinity. Creativity, innovation, empathy, sympathy, compassion, the ability to love. I was going to say love. Without fear. Many of us love, and we've been hurt in our love. And so when we do love, what we do is we love just enough and we always hold something back because we're afraid of being vulnerable and having that hurt again. Forgiveness. Many people forgive and then they look around and see who saw them do the forgiving because they want something to come back. Divinity is loving without fear. Forgiveness, unconditional forgiveness, the ability to heal our own bodies. That is an expression of divinity. So what we find is divinity is actually foundational

in our lives. It's not this peripheral thing. It's us being the best version of ourselves. The move to replace us with technology veils our ability to be the best version of ourselves. It actually veils our divinity. And we can talk about the science that shows us how that works. My and Bialx's breakdown is supported by Stuart Fails to Save the Universe. What? We are so excited about Chuck Lurie's new Big Bang Theory spinoff. It's called Stewart Fails to Save the Universe and its companion podcast. On the Stewart Fails to Save the Universe podcast, join hosts friends of ours, Felicia Day and Will Wheaton. They unpack each episode right after it airs on HBO Max. Stewart Fails to Save the Universe is all about Stuart Bloom, the guy who ran the comic book shop on the Big Bang Theory. Well, now he has to restore reality after he breaks a device which accidentally causes a multiverse, Armageddon. Each week on the podcast, to hear from the series creators, writers, executive producers like Chuck Lori, Bill Prady, and Zach Penn. You'll also hear from cast members like Kevin Sussman, Lauren Lapkis, and other surprise guests. Felicia and Will talk about what just happened in the episode.

They also talk about the Easter eggs, because there's a lot of them, and how multiverses actually work, which is something we love to talk about here. So maybe you've been a Big Bang Theory fan since 2007. Maybe you're new to this universe. You are going to absolutely love the show, I promise. You can watch The Stewart Fails to Save the Universe official podcast on HBO Max, the HBO Max YouTube channel, or listen wherever you get podcasts. My and B. Alex breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know what it's like to leave a doctor's appointment feeling like you are leaving with more questions than answers. There's no real data. There's no game plan. This has happened

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After you sign up, they'll ask you how you heard about superpower. Tell them, Miami Alex's Breakdown sent you to support the show. Miami-Bi Alex's breakdown is supported by Tumble. You know, finding the right rug for our home was more difficult than I thought it should be. An expensive rug makes you constantly afraid that, like, it's going to get stained. We've got dogs, we've got cats, and just like living our normal life. We knew that stains were going to be inevitable. But standard washable rugs, honestly, they can look cheap.

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pretty specific that within a relatively short period of time, there's kind of a tipping point that we're at. Talk about that tipping point. Well, the best minds of our time now are telling us that unless we change the trajectory of where we are right now, the thinking and and the actions that shortly after the year 2030, when we speak to someone on the street or in the grocery store, we will be speaking with some form of a human hybrid species, to some degree, maybe less for some and more to others. But what they're saying to us is unless something changes, very probably,

we are the last generation of what will be called pure humans that this world will know and presumably we're not living anywhere else. So we are the last generation of pure humans. And this is where the title of the book comes from. Can you talk a little bit about, I don't want people to think that you're going off into like a science fiction conversation. You're talking about things that are, but things that are actually happening, right? Meaning you're not saying that in five years everyone's going to be like a robot. You're right.

You're talking about some of the subtle things that we see now as subtle intrusions into our humanness. There are many ways to approach this conversation. I was in a conference recently. I was on panel, and I had a very well-known scientist. He said to me, well, Greg, isn't this the next step in human evolution? Aren't we meant to merge our biology with technology, to merge our carbon with silica? And I said, no, we're not. He said, isn't that the next step in evolution?

I said, it's a false evolution. It's a forced evolution. And we have to say that. because if we follow this path of evolution, we lose aspects of our humanness. Just give it a perfect example. When I was in school back in 1950s, 60s, early 70s, and many people when they were in school, we were taught that when we come into this world, we have a fixed number of brain cells. And that was a leverage in college.

Every beer you drank, you're going to lose some brain cells or anything else you imbibeen. You're going to lose some brain cells. So now what we know is there's a part of the brain, it's the hippocampus, that is producing new brain cells until the last breath we take on this planet. And that's not the reason to go and drink like a fish, but it tells us that our thinking was wrong. But there's a catch. And that catch is the reason I'm sharing this with you.

The catch is that while we produce those new cells, if we don't engage them in a meaningful way within about seven to ten days, the body believes those cells are not necessary, and the cells will atrophy and die. that principle applies the entire human body. We are essentially a use-it-or-lose-it species. We've all heard this before. So when we begin replacing facets of the human body with tech, for example, chemicals that mimic the immune system,

or we begin replacing other, and I'm not talking about an occasional titanium hip, you know, or... He's got one. Yeah, it's not that. The proposals that are being put forward by organizations like World Economic Forum, working through the United Nations, for example, they are talking about technology being introduced to all humans at the time of birth by the year 2030, computer chips in the brain,

for example, to, they say, to give the newborn children the edge they need to compete in the world. What we're not being told is the downside. What do we lose? What is the price that we pay for giving away our humanness? And I just shared why this is important. Because when a chip begins doing what we do naturally, we lose those cognitive abilities. They begin to atrophy and die. In one generation, through epigenetics and next generation, pretty soon, we are no longer functioning the way we have in the past. This is fascinating me because a lot of people think it's like this little dial, you can say, well, let's just try, you know, we'll turn on transhumanism, which is the word we haven't introduced yet, but transhumanism, trans means beyond. So the

transhuman movement is the movement to replace much of our, either augment or replace much of our biology with synthetics and with technology. And that movement is what we're talking about here. They're pushing very quickly to introduce so much of this by the year 2030, this magic year 20, 30 for a lot of reasons in mass. So computer chips in the brains of young children, RFID chips under the skin. They'll say, I know this is happening, and I'm still in awe at how slick and sexy the marketing is. They make it look really, really good. They say your life will be easier. You will be safer. It's got an RFID chip in your body. Everybody knows where you are. You know, you'll be safer. Nobody's talking about the drawbacks and the downside.

And the psychology, this has been around long enough now, we can see where, when we don't use facets of our brain. And if we have a technology doing it for us, we stop. Then we lose cognitive abilities. We lose the ability to solve problems, socialization skills, the ability to communicate emotions and things like that. I want to slow down here for a second because someone who hears... Sorry, in the bingo card of things Jonathan says. It's true. He always says he wants to slow down.

Nine times under ten. I'm like, okay, we've covered a lot. Let's slow down here for a second. No, I agree. I agree. If someone hears that there are computer chips planned to be implanted in children's brains, they may be like, what are you talking about? What you referenced was that the World Economic Forum is exploring this.

and there are organizations all over the world who are evaluating what technology exists right now and how it could be scaled and utilized and deployed across the world. And so often these conversations are not public, but the economist has published a paper. Our brain implants the future of computing. And what happens is when you talk about the marketing, it's slowly introduced as, isn't it more convenient if? neural link is an example for people obviously who have more extreme limitations and so you know because it's a spectrum right it's like on one hand the technology is available for people who have severe limitation and it can bring back the ability to use their arms or the ability to communicate if you

haven't but what we're talking about is when it's deployed in health otherwise healthy people and we start to lose our natural abilities because we're relying on devices so I want to down a little bit and talk like, can you explain to people that this isn't sci-fi, that these plans are available and are being discussed? Yeah, I think it's important to break these ideas down. So let's go back to the beginning. Where are these ideas? Where are they coming from? There's an organization that's been around since 1971, World Economic Forum. We've all heard of the Davos meetings, and that's the WEF, and they meet usually once, sometimes twice a year, which they have every right to do and talk about their view of what the world should be. And, and, you know, and, you know,

and they have every right to do that. What has happened is that they have found that they had very little traction in getting their ideas across, because, in my opinion, they're just bad ideas. And we're talking about some of those. So let's put that into a box. There's another box, United Nations. I'm just going to say, when I was a kid,

the United Nations was the great hope of this planet. And the UN we have now. There are good people there. They do good things. And there are some good programs. It's not the same UN. It's been hijacked in many respects. And one of the places where it's been hijacked,

most of us have heard about something called the UN Sustainable Development Goals for the year 2030. This year comes up a lot. UN SDG 2030. 17 beautiful goals. You look at them on the website. Who wouldn't want them? The end of poverty. Who doesn't want that?

Food security. Who doesn't want that? The end of disease for children. Who doesn't want that? Now you look at the fine print of how they hope to achieve those goals. And this is where it becomes very problematic because the way to achieve those goals is for us to surrender much of our humanness. They're not getting much traction. And they have been concerned about that. It's for this reason these two organizations signed a formal agreement in the year 2019

that the WEF would implement its ideas through the sustainable development goals of the UN, and that's concerning because we are legally bound as a nation to follow some of the principles, the World Health Organization, is a function of the UN, for example. And we saw this a few years ago of how much control they attempted to exert on global populations. So it starts to sound, you know, crazy science fiction and things like that. It is public knowledge. It simply is not shared in the mainstream. It's almost too complex.

It's like there's too many moving parts. It's not immediate enough. It's like too hard to cover. So at the end of every Davos meeting, they sum it up in a few sentences. And Klaus Schwab is the head of was the head. He stepped down and I understand he's being reinstated. I'm not sure if that's true. But in a single sentence, he summed up the goal of where they hope to move in these next

four and a half years. And a single sentence, and I'll give you the video clip, and you can share that if you'd like. In the single sentence, he says, the way to achieve these goals is to merge our natural world with our digital world. And then there's a long pause because he knows the implications of what he's about to say. and he says with our biological identities. So in other words, to merge all the resources of the world, which have pretty much been done, all the animals and the fish and the trees, they are all tokenized.

We know that. The digital world is already the digital world. What has yet to happen is we are not part of this digital equation yet, that they hope to have done by the year 2030 with massive artificial intelligence regulating the way we live our lives. they say for the betterment of the planet, regulating where we travel, what we eat, how we take care of health issues that come up. I hesitated because I want to go too deep on that right now, but you get the idea. So the only way that can happen is for humans to embrace the technology, not just into their lives, but into their bodies. America is not wired for that.

We're not set up for that. We don't think that way. Some countries do. And they're European countries that are all in on this tech right now. I want to again just continue to sort of explain how this is not science fiction. Because in 2002, I got to see Ray Kurzweil speak. This was before I had a cell phone. And he talked about how every single person was going to have a device more powerful than the most powerful NASA computers in the palm of their hand. They were going to have access. And he said, and starts to lay out what the version of, you know, the 2015 smartphone is. And in 2002, you're like, this sounds crazy. This guy's off the rails. How is this possibly going to happen? I'm still like

using dial up in some most cases. I have a landline. Like it's. Yeah. I'm with you. And so when we start to stretch, it's like it can, and I'm really trying to speak to the people who are like having a hard time imagining. The plans are large, but the movements become incremental. It's like, oh, just, let's just track this. And there are a lot of potential positives that are positioned without thinking about the consequences. AI is going to be able to scan images and health conditions way faster. That's a good. AI is going to help us allocate resources so that we will have less food waste. Right now, 40% of food is wasted. Well, everyone wants that. Right. So it's like almost the road to hell is paved with good intentions in a way. I don't know if we go

that far, but, you know, we can definitely talk about the consequences. But I think that's sort of the stage is that these changes could happen incrementally without us really realizing what we're giving up. This is why I've written this book. The science. I'm, I'm a scientist. I'm a trained scientist, earth science by degree with a strong background, math, physics, computer science. So multidisciplinary science. And one of the things I've found is the technology is never right, wrong, good or bad. It simply is tech. It's the thinking underlying the tech and how it's applied in our lives.

And we've certainly seen that. I mean, the splitting of the atom could have been used for a whole lot of things. It was perfected during wartime. So, of course, it was applied to a wartime application as the atom bomb. The tech, any of this tech, is simply a technological. And yes, we can benefit from all of it outside of our bodies. It's the thinking underlying this. And that's why in the book, I am talking, and we're kind of skipping around here a little bit, and I'm going to acknowledge that.

But none of this is happening in a vacuum. There is a context to everything that we're talking about. And this is where it gets a little uncomfortable for people sometimes. I've lost friends. I've lost business having this conversation. regarding divinity and a fundamental struggle. We were born in this world into a fundamental struggle between forces that we call good and evil. For a lot of people, that sounds like a fairy tale.

I mean, I was a kid growing up in the Midwest, in Missouri, and good and evil were two little angels on your shoulder. You know, a little devil here and, well, devil over there and an angel there, and they were always going back and forth. these are very real forces that are playing out. And the goal, you have to say, what is the goal of evil in the world? And this is why I wanted to mention the word divinity. The goal of evil in the world is to deny human divinity. The goal of evil is to keep us from being the best version of ourselves, from healing our bodies, from loving without fear, empathy, sympathy, compassion, imagination, all of these things. That is the goal of evil. So now that we have that, I think this is a really important benchmark. We now have a solid goal for what evil plays in our lives, the ability

of the attempt to deny our humanness, to deny us from being the best version of ourselves. So now we've got a context and we've got a framework. Where does everything we're talking about fit in to that framework. Does it help us to be the best version of ourselves or in some way does it deny our humanness? To what degree is this subjective? Meaning for some people, and I don't mean to say like, oh, everybody's got a different, but a little bit, everybody's got a different perspective on this. And some people might say, people that maybe I don't agree with, But some people might say the best version of myself is the self that incorporates everything that humans have evolved to create, even in digital, synthetic, silica realms. Right.

And the best version of myself is the version that will live forever, right? The best version of myself is one that has biohacked every aspect of my physiology, right? So, I mean, for me and, you know, just kind of also from a theological perspective, the notions of good and evil, for many people are somewhat outdated. Sure, right? Sure. And when we talk about, you know, good and evil, you know, in many cases, their aspects or elements that people do get to determine, which in theory are subjective. So I think, for example, I happen to be a person that, you know, supports a woman's right to have an abortion if she wants to, even if I wouldn't have one or even if I wish she wouldn't, like, whatever.

That's something I believe in, right? And there might be some people who say that's evil and they would believe that it is in this woman's highest good to be stopped from making that decision. And I know this is an exciting concept. Everything you're saying is precise the reason why we need the benchmark. Got it. So if you go back to the benchmark, the ability, what you've just described, we have the abilities to do. This is where the new science, the exciting new science is coming in. The science is showing us that all of this technology that we built in the world around us,

the principles of that technology, we mirror in our own biology. And that's a mindblower for most people because we are taught from a very early age that we are a flawed form of life, that we are a flawed carbon-based form of life by virtue of our existence. and we need something outside of ourselves to be the best version of ourselves, that makes us victims. And if you're a victim, you need a savior. And the savior is being touted as technology. Now what we know, that's the setup right there.

Young people, when they come to our live events, they worship AI. They worship the computer chips. Nobody's ever told them. First of all, how rare and precious human biology really is. and we can talk about that, and why I believe that is true, and why I believe we're worth preserving as a species. Nobody's ever taught them that we not only meet, but we exceed the capacity of many of those technologies.

For example, I just did this with some young people. Let's look at a silicon chip and a human neuron, all right? Silicon chip, are they fast? Yes. Are they efficient? Yes. Are they scalable? You can only scale a computer chip.

as far as the physics of the stuff it's made of allow you to scale. So the atoms that define the silicon will only allow information to move so quickly, so the scalability is finite. Now, look at a human neuron. What is our potential? The answer is we don't know. Because every time, this is the beauty, every time we push our human biology,

every time we push a brain and a neuron to the very edge of what we believe is this limits, We do what humans do. We morph and we adapt to open a new vista of potential. A perfect example of this is brain states. I was in school 40 Hertz, 40 cycles per second, was the top end of brain, I mean, the textbooks, medical books. Everybody said, we can't do any more in that. And the Tibetan monks came along and they said, wow, if we do a certain kind of meditation, and they did it actually right here at UCLA in the scanners and the MRIs.

And they exceeded that 40 cycles per second. And the scientist said, oh, well, okay, maybe we were off a little bit, made a mistake. But the human brain can't possibly do any more than that. Mind B. Alex breakdown is supported by our place. Guess what people? Most nonstick cookware still contains harmful toxins. A study by the Ecology Center in California found that 80% of nonstick pans contain Teflon. That's a PFS, which can be released into your home, your friends.

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straight from Richard Feynman. Show me the experiment. No dumbing down, no hand-waving, just the deepest questions taken very seriously. We had the opportunity to speak to Brian on our podcast. We talked about God, the Big Bang, consciousness, the limits of knowledge. We had such a great time with him. And we can't wait to learn more about him. So if you've ever wanted a front row seat to the frontier of human knowledge. This is it. Listen to new episodes of Into the Impossible with Brian Keating every week. Follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Watch full video episodes at YouTube.com slash Dr. Brian Keating. And the monks said, well, you know, if we do a little bit different, and you know where I'm going with this, because they, they doubled that 40 hertz to

80 hertz, then they push it to 100 hertz. We had to have a new brain state called the gamma brain state. Then they doubled that to the hypergama brain state. But here's on the other end, a lot of people don't know this. On the other end, they took the brain state down to less than one cycle per second, one hurts. And medically, many people think you're in big trouble. If your brain state is less than a cycle per second, these monks, they were very awake, they were in an altered state of consciousness, very much alive, at will on demand, were able to self-regulate their brain states. And the point of that is that our neurons will morph and adapt, as our body does.

And the other side of this at the Salk Institute did some amazing studies where they compared an entire human brain to a microprocessor. When I first saw this, and I said, how can you make that comparison? And what they did was they equated the synapse between the neurons to the transistors on the chip. And interestingly, there's about the same number on our high-end, chips the same number of transistors as there are synapses in the average human brain. And what they found is that the human brain is about a hundredfold more efficient than those computer chips. And you

show that to these young kids. This is the reason I'm saying it. And they said, well, how come we don't know that? You know, nobody tells us that. We're only beginning with the very tip of this precipice. We're only beginning to understand the full potential of our humanness. And we're about to give the way the technology in one generation before we ever even know completely what it means to be human. And the way it's happening are the things that we're talking about now. These organizations believe that through marketing, and it is really good marketing, Northern Europe, for example, Sweden is leading the world with RFID chips in the skin. So here's the commercial. You go on YouTube and see the commercial. Here's a guy walking down the street.

Blue skies, birds are singing, music's playing. He says, I've never felt freer in my life. He goes to work, opens his security door with, you know, with his fingertip, he's got a chip there, goes to his computer, turns it on with a chip, a different chip, goes the ATM. He's got 15 chips in his body, 15 chips. And he says he's never been freer in his life. That is a perspective. I mean, the country that brought you Pippi Longstock is doing that? That's a perspective. So when we talk about some people are very familiar with this now and some art. Elon Musk created a company called NiroLink, which is an amazing company with amazing technology.

It is a computer chip in the brain that allows the person with that chip to communicate with a computer without using a keyboard and no wires. It's essentially Bluetooth-like technology. And you say that to a young kid and they'll say, sweet. You mean, I can play Grand Theft Auto 3 and never use a keyboard. And you say, yeah, and they'll say, okay, bring it on. Because no one's telling them the flip side. The functions of the brain that that chip is mimicking, now those functions begin to atrophy. And over time, we lose those functions because we are a lose it, use it, use it or lose it.

So, but the other side of this, and this is what you mentioned, a young man or woman who gives their life and serves their country on a battlefield a dirty, dusty, sandy, windblown battlefield on the other side of the planet that comes home missing one or two arms or one or two legs, if that chip in the brain can speak to a prosthetic and allow them to hold their babies in their arms and feed themselves and brush their own teeth. Man, what a beautiful thing. What a beautiful thing. I'm all about that. It's not the one-off applications. It is the desire to bring our populations under a form of control by having technology that can be managed by artificial intelligence.

And this is what Klaus Schwab is saying. The goal, he just has to come back to that. The goal is to merge our natural world, our digital world, and our biological world. When you speak about the monks, what strikes me is how much this information is missing now across the population, even if you took technology away. Technology is a symptom. It's like, you know, drug addiction is a symptom of other things going on in someone's life.

Our technology use is actually a symptom that we're not engaged in our creative process, that we don't know how to regulate our brain states, that we don't have all these practices. By design. By design. And this is the point. That's the point of what I'm writing about here. There's a concerted effort to deny our humanness, to deny our divinity. And if you don't like that word, to deny us from being the best version of ourselves. You could also say that deny basically understanding how to operate the mechanism of the human body that we've been given. Like we're all dropped in and we all have these human bodies. We don't know what the potential is.

We don't know how to operate them. Exactly. And that's not an accident. That is, I say, it's a multi-generational. project, if you want to look at it that way, that has led us to believe that we are powerless victims. One of the reasons I wrote this book, people ask, you know, what do you hope the reader walks away from, this book with? And at the very least, I would hope they would have a deeper appreciation for their humanness and what it means to be human and maybe even a step further,

a sense of pride. That worked for me. I got that. I did. I got that from, I got that from the book. There was a lot that I, that I hadn't considered with enough weight. And, you know, you have this, it's Human Truth 47. Oh, truth 47. So 47 says to live our divinity is to heal the deceptive belief that we are flawed, frail, and powerless beings who need something outside of ourselves to succeed in the world and thrive in life. The reason I liked Human Truth 47 is because this resonates pretty deeply with a lot of the work that we do. A lot of the specialists we talk to.

A lot of the mystics. A lot of the philosophers and a lot of the theoretical physicists. And most of these people have something in common. And that is a connection with something greater than themselves. Right? And as you said, that doesn't have to be religious. It doesn't have to be patriarchal. It doesn't have to be any of those things.

But, you know, as we talk about, you know, religion is the human attempt to encapsulate and formulate something divine, which, yes, can be used as an opiate for the masses. It can be used for war. It can be used for hatred. It can be used for evil. But at its source, this notion, which I really, you know, as a scientist who is a believer, I love that connection.

that you make. And I think that's something that really does kind of, it speaks to addiction, right? We keep seeking outside of ourselves to fill that the God-shaped hole is what 12-step programs will call it, right?

We keep seeking outside of ourselves and guess what? Self-love, right? Loving kindness, what Sharon Salzberg and Joseph Goldstein brought over from these. It unlocks an entire potential that we're not accessing. Correct. There's a whole world waiting. And that's why I first asked you

about love, because love is this sort of higher vibrational frequency, right, that we have the biological ability to resonate at. And the other connection I made, which I did not realize you were going to make, has to do with coherence. And this is not an advertisement for heart math, but I started using heart math. And I learned that the feeling that you get when you not force yourself, but when you encourage yourself to experience loving kindness, compassion, patience.

I mean, I usually think of my hairless cat because he was my favorite. And my coherence starts to rise. My body wants to feel a sense of coherence. So it's like everything got, linked in when you think of, we keep looking outside of ourselves, whether it's tech, whether it's drugs, whether it's religion, right? Whatever guru you want to follow, it all, it all really does come back to this notion of like, what was I born as a human

with consciousness sitting at this table right now? What was I born naturally able to tap into? Right. And that is healing. And for me as a scientist, the question then once I understood that from, from, and I want to talk about some of the experiments, then the question was, how come I don't know this? And why don't we, it goes back to what Jonathan's saying, why don't we know about what those monks have done? The highest states of human consciousness ever attained with no technology, no chemicals, no drugs, not plant medicine, anything, breath and focus are attained. I used to lead groups in the Tibet, and we would spend 12 monasteries, two nunneries over 26 days. And we'd sit with these monks in these nuns and we would experience with them and to the degree we were able to learn they would teach us. And it's not hard. It's just it's a very, very different way of thinking. I just want to step back about a half a step. I want to acknowledge everything we're talking about.

This is a very different way of thinking for a lot of people. I think it's important now because it gives context to what's happening in the world around us. You cannot separate the events that the world out there from what's happening in here. I'd like to talk about that before we finish this conversation as well. But let me go back to science. I think that my – I had to leave – I wrote the book and then had to leave a lot of the book out to meet the parameters of the publisher.

So they wanted a certain size, certain number of pages. There was an experiment that was done in 2022, and this is kind of a mindblower. And for people that weren't alive in 1972, this may not mean a lot, but there was one of the computer games ever created was a game called Pong. I had Pong. Pong was such a simple game. You would think the Messiah landed in my living room. It was.

Well, I was working, I was in the university at the time, working in the remote sensing lab, Colorado State University. And we had computers that were tied to, we had a monitor tied to a mainframe. You know, we didn't have desktop computers in. And this thing came out, and it was just a very rudimentary. It's like a badminton game. A tennis game. All right.

If that. But it's pervasive. It came out in 1972. Okay, so here's the experiment. I remember the smell of the machine. It's not like burning plastic. Were you burning up your pong machines? No, it was just like it would get hot, you know?

Like, it's, anyway, go ahead. You remember people used to come away from the lab or working long hours and their face was red because of the radiation coming off that screen? Delicious. Yeah. Before they changed the way the screens were set up, I remember that. So here's the experiment. 2022, scientists took some human neurons and they put them into a petri dish, not attached to a human. All right.

And they had a special chip that had little ports where they could put the dendrites from the neurons into the chip. So now you've got a chip, a neuron interface, and they put it into a computer loaded with Pong. All right? Here's what happened. They fired up Pong. Those neurons began playing Pong. and the longer they played, the better they got. They learned from their mistakes.

And so now here's the scientists. They're up against a little bit of a quandary here. Where do the instructions for Pong live? And so now they're looking, are they in the neurons? Just like, I remember when I was a kid, Einstein had died just before I was born. And I got to see part of his brain. The thin sectioned in the University of Kansas to see what made his brain different from everybody else. The answer is it looked pretty much like everybody else is except, with one exception,

he had a lot more folds for more surface area. So sinus, they're looking in his brain, where's he equals MC square, you know? I think it was all the chicken soup. His mother was making him. Maybe, maybe, I don't know. So they were doing the same thing with these neurons. How the neurons know how to play pawn, this is where science will either have to embrace, allow their discoveries to lead to the story they tell,

or what they're doing now is they're trying to force those discoveries to fit into pre-existing ideas that now are obsolete. What the science, traditional science, is trying to say is that we're it. They're saying that consciousness is in the cells, consciousness is in the brain. What this experiment showed was that those neurons are literally biological antenna. They're tuned to something that is not inside the neuron. They're tuned to a place in the field. And we now know July 4th, 2012, this superconducting supercollider in CERN announced that there is a field underlying all existence called the Higgs field. Peter Higgs predicted he got to see his prediction come true.

There is a field. And it's no longer a question. The question is, what is our relationship to that field? What does it mean? That field has many names. We know energy is information. So that neuron literally is a biological antenna tuned to the place in the field where Pong is pervasive from all of the years.

So in all the years that it was there, there's a... Pong has always existed. We just needed to draw it from the universe. Here's the shift. Scientists began right off the Cold War. The Russians were way ahead of us on this. And I remember we were reading Russian research papers during the Cold War, like, what are these guys doing? They began to look at the human body less from a sticky, gooey, mushy, wet cellular perspective and more from an IT perspective, information technology.

Now, that's a way different way of thinking about the human body. They're looking at the components to the human body as transistors and resistors and capacitors and batteries and circuits. One of the things they found is that human DNA, and there's the proceedings from the journal of soft computing, actually published this, and this is a quote from them, that human DNA functions as a fractal biological antenna, a 3D antenna. Well, the antenna is tuned to a signal. fractal antenna is picking up a lot of signals across a broad bandwidth of information. And it suggests that we are in communication with something. And I think this is how science is going to find the common ground with spirituality, two very different perspectives.

But they're saying the same thing. The same thing. Contemporary languages. Science is a contemporary language of a lot of the mystical traditions. So if that DNA is an antenna picking up something, the DNA in those neurons is tuned to a place in the field where Pong lives. Our DNA, our cells, in our neurons and throughout our bodies. We have neurons in the heart. We have neurons in the brain.

The Journal of Complementary Alternative in Medicine. And I love this quote. I didn't know we'd do this, but I'm going to do it for memory. It said there's compelling evidence to suggest that the human heart is coupled to a field of energy that is not limited by the laws of physics. That means there's a part of us that is designed to transcend the limits of time and space. That's deep intuition. That's how a mother in Australia, I'm talking about this in the book,

she knows when her son in Afghanistan is in trouble before his commanding officer does, because she intuitively picked this up. There has to be a communication. Now, you know, we talk about it anecdotally. But what is that information flowing through? It's throwing through that field. Right. And these, yeah, we had Thomas Campbell on and he's a, you know, physicist who explained the whole thing very plainly.

Yeah. Very clear to him. Oh, it's a field and there's a field of consciousness. And we said, what about the Akashic records? He's like, sure, call it that. Well, there's, call it the field, the plonk field, the zero point field, the matrix, the divine matrix. The point is that it's only through this biological mechanism that we attuned to a part of ourselves that doesn't live in this physical body.

And when we begin to replace our physical body with synthetics, we lose the ability to connect with that part of ourselves. The goal of the transhuman movement, ultimately, is to replace the entire body with synthetics. and you named it. You said for immortality, when the science is showing, number one, every organ in the human body has the ability to stop the damage,

to heal what's been done, and to repair itself. Even the organs we were told could not. Brain tissue, spinal cord tissue, heart tissue, all under, there's a catch. They have to be given the right environment to do that. Well, and I think also, you know, one of the other concepts that sort of need

to be exploded out. You know, when you talk about this, when you think like this, I mean, I'll use longevity as an example. What's my favorite recent quote that I saw written on a chalkboard outside of that restaurant that we like? Death is only the end if you think the story's about you. So I was already thinking that the notion of longevity, the reason that many ancient people, indigenous communities,

don't have the same fear and obsession with death is because death was seen as another part of life and it was part of the vernacular, right? And when I think about, you know, the way that my tradition, the tradition I was raised in and what I believe was encoded in me, you know, there's this notion that

there's always a language that divinity is speaking, always. And for some people they find it in the sky or the stars, for some people they find it in love or in work that they do, that language is constantly being spoken. The thing that changes is our ability to hear it, right? So the notion that like, oh, you know, if you read the Old Testament, and I'm much more versed in the Old Testament than the New,

if you read the Old Testament, like, God's always talking to people and God's talking from mountains and you're like seeing colors while God is speaking. Like, what is that? And what, you know, my rabbis taught me was that that voice is constantly being spoken. We can't hear it anymore. We can't hear it because the first thing we do when we wake up is take out our phone, scroll through Instagram, look at the news, you know, like whatever we're doing. Our attention is bombarded. Our attention is bombarded.

We're not living in a natural world. And as much as this is the evolution of our species, we've not lived like this for 99.9% of the time that humans have existed. This is all very new. And I say this all the time. I'm like, buildings, what? We're in cars. Like, there's a thing. Like, I'm talking to you.

Like, I have consciousness. That's crazy. For most of the existence of human beings, we've not been living like this. This is an adaptation that we're trying to adjust to. Absolutely. And the bigger context is I think we all sense we're barreling down the road towards some kind of convergence point. I think everyone feels it. It's like a rubber band has been stretched so far.

Something's got to give. I mean, people say it in different ways. You know, I go to my little my little food co-op in a rural area in northern New Mexico and really good salt of the earth. People don't really have time to sit around and do what we're doing right now because they're trying to make ends meet and take care of their kids. But when I see them there, you know, what they'll say is, Greg, something's wrong. We know something's wrong. And the way they identify it, they say things are moving too fast. The changes are happening. to us, not from us, we need to go back the basics. But are we just being Luddites?

Are people who say that just like, oh, we don't, we can't take all this technology? Everything's, I want to go back to the good old days. What's your response to that? My response, and again, I'm a systems thinker. None of this is happening in a vacuum. That's why I'm going to go back. There is a fundamental struggle we were born into between the forces that we call good and evil.

These aren't metaphors. I'm just giving an example. I was in London in a hotel room October 7th of 2023, about to go on a stage. And the events began happening in Israel. And I was watching live TV feeds from Eastern Europe and Asia. America was asleep because of the time difference. And I had to go on that stage acting like everything was okay. And I was just in tears.

I came back to my room that night to see CNN. America was never allowed to see what happened in Israel on that day for different reasons. YouTube says it violates community guidelines. There's a narrative that those events did not fit. The horrors that unfolded on that day are nothing less than pure evil. It's not a metaphor. And it wasn't incited by the rage of pent-up people. This was by design.

And America, most America doesn't know that. And because of that, it's divided us by design. Because now there are people that say it never happened. If it did, I would see the pictures, prove it to me. And I want to say we're probably blessed not to see those pictures because you don't want those indelibly stamped into your mind. You don't want to see what evil can do to someone else. There's a fundamental force and it ebbs and flows.

and we're living at a time, a convergence point, where the technology is being used to veil our potential. That is an expression of evil, to make us vulnerable and susceptible to an agenda that is not good for us and it's not good for this planet. This isn't a conversation that could be happening at any time in history. There's a reason. There's a process that's unfolding. There's a beginning. There's an end. There's a timeline.

And we're in it. And the only way out of this to go through it, in my opinion, love is the answer. Do we love ourselves enough to embrace the deep truth of what it means to be human and to preserve our divinity? Or will we succumb to the shiny objects in front of us and the dangling carrot of giving our humanness away in exchange for the speed of a computer ship? or the safety that we feel when we give away our sovereignty. And I don't know the answer to that, but we aren't going to have to wait long to find out. It will be decided within this lifetime. We're making that choice in this lifetime right now.

And I'm advocating. I believe we're worth preserving. I'm advocating strongly for our humanness. You talk about three indoctrination tactics, and you just mentioned one. So I kind of want to go into that. Does it make sense what I just said? Oh, yeah.

Do you have other guests that talk? I don't know. I listen a lot to Sam Harris. I like Sam very much and we were colleagues together at UCLA. He speaks of this in, you know, a political, from a political perspective and from a historical perspective, which is, yeah, it's, it is a very similar conversation. But I think what's interesting is the notion of, especially social media and the way information is being presented to us. And that's what led me to sort of connect it to the tactics that are being used.

So you talk about these three tactics. What are the ways that this kind of information is either being misrepresented or not represented? This is where that benchmark came in that we did early on. This is why I wanted to do it early on. Anything that denies our divinity is an expression of evil. Even things we may not think they are. Do those events bring out the best in us or do they deny the best within us? So there are many forms of evil. There's kinetic evil playing out in the battlefield. That's obvious. There's psychological evil. It's less obvious. There's technological evil. the devices being placed into our bodies that replace our natural abilities in mass, if we're all going to put computer chips in our brains, and we lose those cognitive abilities, that's not good for us. So in the media right now, in the algorithms, and I know all of our listeners are experiencing it, so here's an example of what happens.

Kids will go to their YouTube channel and they'll find out what's going on in the world. And the parents are going to their YouTube channel. Well, the way the algorithms are set up is they will feed you the kind of information that you've just searched and create what is called an information silo. So you are inundated with so much information and you think it's so pervasive. Everybody must be seeing, you know, what you're saying. Meanwhile, the kids are seeing the same thing, which is completely different than what you are. Now you sit down at the family dinner table and you try to have a conversation about climate change. All right.

and you are now a polarized family. There is a concerted effort to break the social bonds that hold our civilization together. And it's not an accident. It began right around 2011. It was the Occupy movement, the rich against the poor. That's an important conversation. We need to have that.

However, it could be done in a kind way that brings us together in a society, and it was not. It was weaponized to divide us. Then we saw the same thing happen, men against women. Then we saw blacks against whites, Christians against Muslims, Jews against Muslims. And now it's adults against children, male against female, gender against gender. Every one of those is important. And we need to have the conversation.

Everyone is being weaponized to break the social bonds that hold us together. And a lot of it's coming through the media, the way that we see it that come up. Another example, I'm going to use climate change. As a geologist, I'm very passionate about this. You believe in it? Climate change is a fact. I've been talking about since... No, I've been talking about since 1979.

It's also a fact that humans are not causing it. Humans are not causing it. And the real scientists know this. The cow parts. It's not the cows. I'll just, I'll tell you, I mean, NASA knows this. NASA knows that over 90% of the CO2. There is an increase in CO2.

Okay, it's just, I made a statement and I just want to justify this. Is there more CO2 in the atmosphere now than there was 10 years, 20, 50, 100 years ago? The answer is absolutely yes. Is it a bad thing? The answer is no. Is it the most we've ever had? We're right about 440 parts per million right now. In geologic history, we're looking Cretaceous over 1,000,000 parts for million,

Triassic, 2,000 parts per million. The earth was lush, the earth was green, life was abundant during that time. And what we see in geologic history, and this is fascinating me, there are times when CO2 levels are high and the temperatures are low. And times when just the opposite is happening, it's not necessarily a one-to-one correlation. Where's the CO2 coming from? NASA knows, I've got a bunch of videos on this. Over 90% of the CO2 is coming from the oceans, warming. Warm water holds less gas.

Here's the kicker. the oceans are warming from underneath, not from the top. It was from the CO2 on the top. You know, the warming of the air, it would be coming from the top. It's warming. The glaciers are melting from underneath. The CO2 is coming. The oceans are warming from underneath from tectonic processes

that happen about every 12,500 years that people just don't want to talk about. It is a tectonic process. It begins in the core. translates perturbations into the mantle, into the crust, the weak areas of the crust. You see more tectonic activity, more volcanic activity, was exactly what we're seeing. Do we need to go clean green? Yes, we need to stop burning fossil fuels because the oil is actually a very precious resource that cannot be replaced.

And if we were serious about doing it, we've had the technology for over 70 years. We've had technology that will produce clean, green, sustainable energy, no CO2, it's abundant in the earth's crust. The waste can be recycled into the energy again. If we were serious about it, if the powers that be were serious, I know that they would go after this tech that is not being used. I'm talking about thorium. Manhattan Project, they discovered a number of elements that could run those reactors. They chose uranium because they need the plutonium for the weapons. Thorium, Element number 90, if you wiki this, they'll tell you it's theoretical, it's not.

China, Russia, America had thorium reactors, and one of them was in Colorado, the Indian River facility up until the 80s when they shut it down. So we know it's a proven technology. We go on and on with that, but all to say that we are not the cause, it's been politicized, and it has been hijacked. The idea has been hijacked. So how does that work out? in terms of media.

We've had leaders come on and say, the science is settled. And the minute somebody says the science is settled, that's a red flag. Because science is a living body of information. It's designed to be constantly upgraded when new discoveries come to light. They'll use the urgency of a situation

and say the science is settled to force us to accept their idea of a solution. We all saw this during the pandemic as well. The science is settled. You must do these things. When the science continues and reveals very different kinds of information. So when someone uses the urgency of a situation and says there is no discussion, that is a tactic that is used. What do we do to remedy that? We research. That's the beauty of having the opportunity. A lot of people don't have the time. And I totally get that. But the information is out there. Go to multiple sources, independent. sources and look at Harvard, look at MIT, look at where the research is coming from, and you will find it counters what many of our leaders are saying to us. Then we're faced with a choice. And that's a very personal choice, and we have to make a choice in terms of, you know, where we go with this. But that's one example. Right. So the first indoctrination tactic being present the doctrine as

reality, which I completely see. The second tactic is manipulation through fear and guilt. And the third is ensure there's no way out. Can you talk about the Well, the climate change is a perfect example because what they'll do is they'll start a news cycle with forest fires in California and flooding in my state, New Mexico, just 48 hours ago or in Texas. And of course that's horrible. Nobody wants that. Our hearts go out to our brothers and sisters, and then they will link that to climate change. And the science doesn't support that. The science simply does not support that.

It goes even deeper. I mean, the cycle, we know what's driving this cycle. And we have the technology now that we could actually alleviate many of the issues with climate change that are happening right now. But yeah, climate change is one where the urgency, certainly the pandemic is a perfect example of the urgency. The threat of war and annihilation we've seen used recently to take really extreme steps. And it's all being done through media. In your media silo, your silo will tell you that's the only way to go. But if you're able to break out that silo, you'll see way different.

perspectives based on really good information. And you said the other one, what was the third one? The third indoctrination tactic is ensure there's no way out. Well, yeah. And that is part of what we see. We just keep coming back. Climate change was a perfect example of that. Right.

And the pandemic as well. The pandemic and the pandemic was this was the United Nations. Meaning like if you don't do this, you're going to die. Like that was literally. However, the Harvard, MIT. studies showed very clearly. I'm a scientist. As soon as I saw, well, I didn't know if we could talk about this on your program, and I think as a way to talk about it responsibly. I knew in March of 20, my scientific colleagues had sent me copies of the genome. And you can see very clearly

where the genome was, there were cleavage sites where that don't happen in nature, where the information had been spliced and information had been put into there, which told me it did not come from a natural. It didn't come from a wet market, you know, in somewhere and some far. You remember how I determined that it came from a lab? Your experience of it. When I had COVID, the first time I had it, I was very sick. I was one of the people, like, I wasn't like the, oh, it was like a little cold. Like, I was very sick. I was, at that time, I was vaccinated. And the symptoms changed about every 10 hours. Wow. And what I said is it felt like,

everything I studied from genetics, the way programming works. Yep. When proteins are turned over and things are, and I said, it literally felt like I was, things were clicking on every 10 hours. I was like, oh, new symptom. Oh, now I have a completely different. And I was like, this feels so inorganic. Like usually when you have a cold, it's like, oh, it moves from your nose down to your

chest, like then you cough and then it's over. But this was like every day it was a new virus. That's what it felt like. And I literally said, and everybody, well, certain people in my life were, like, you're crazy. You're a conspiracy theorist. I was like, no, I'm still a progressive liberal, but this does not seem like an organic virus. It made perfect sense that would come from a lab leak and humans make mistakes. Just tell us. Just be honest and tell us. There's a reason that the government doesn't tell us certain things. Yes. And part of it is that, and you know, I'm giving the government

in general a very generous interpretation here. Okay. When you have a global pandemic, This is really scary. We didn't know a lot of things, meaning there was legitimate things that we didn't know. So remember it was like, oh, it can't be passed through the air, and it's like, it is passed through the air. So what happened is we had a government that had to felt that it had to take very serious conservative measures to protect as, quote, best that they could.

The people, of course, who were not protected were people of a lower socioeconomic status, which ended up being reflected as many people of color not being taken care of. And that's why many of us don't like the government for a lot of reasons. But there was a conservative attempt to try and be like, oh my gosh, everybody just like stay in your houses.

We don't know what the F is happening, right? And I think in many cases, some people knew, but many people didn't. And every time something comes out from the CDC, I shove it in the face of everyone who told me that I was a conspiracy theorist, like, oh, guess what? I was right.

The information was out there. I was power of attorney over my mom, who I lost through COVID. And her facility, she was also late stage dementia. And the facility that she was in said, we need your permission to use this vaccine on your mom. And I said, well, send me the paperwork. And Pfizer, it was a Pfizer. vaccine they were going to use. And Pfizer was very honest in their paperwork. They said this, this vaccine will not keep your mom from getting COVID. It will not keep her from transmitting it.

It may lessen the impact. Oh, the information was all there. Well, that was Pfizer. But meanwhile, my local news is telling me that just the opposite. They're saying if you take this, if you don't take it, you're going to get it. If you don't take it, you won't. And I said, that's not true. No. And this is, you know, COVID politics aside, the thing that bothers. me most, not just about COVID, not just about this vaccine, about wellness in general. I don't appreciate being lied to. That's the thing. I don't want to be lied to. If you don't know, say you don't know. But this is where, and you and I may differ on a lot of things. And I also don't know enough about climate change to even like say, like, I don't know what you're saying sounds right. Could

be right. Could be. I don't know. But with this, this made sense to me. This notion of we're going to hold over you that if you don't do what everybody else is doing, you're going to die. Do you want to die, which is the same thing with the HPV vaccine, which used to be like, oh, some people are taking it. And now the commercials are like, do you want your 12-year-old to die? If not, take this vaccine. And I'm like, what kind of marketing is happening, right? Well, that's where the information, these are the algorithms that are being used to skew these, skew these perspectives. My mom passed before I had to make that decision. And so from COVID. And I sometimes think she spared me the pain of,

wondering if I'd make the wrong decision if I had given it to her. Sure. But it was an eye-opener for me because the fact sheet from the pharmaceutical company stated what the compound was capable of, and it was not what was being taught, was being told on my local radio stations and local media. I mean, there's no center of truth. You'll still speak to a lot of people who, and a lot of physicians have said this was 100% needed.

It absolutely reduced mortality. It reduced suffering. It was what was needed to have across the population. And there's a danger in saying, you know, I'm aware of the danger of saying the local news and the mainstream media because that opens the door when that can't be trusted. It opens the door to even more fringe. And, you know, when we say, well, look, some of the sounds conspiratorial, but here are the. It opens a door to some, but it opens a door to people who may have real conspiracy. And also, I want to say, like, I don't know, I literally don't know enough.

I know the things that don't make sense to me. I know the things that I don't appreciate. Sure. I don't have the level of certainty that you do. And I don't have a level of certainty in many cases that you do. I'm just saying that, like, I try and call it when I see it. And we weren't being told and we're not told in many cases what's happening. And part of the problem, I think, is we,

do have a current administration, which this is not a political statement, by definition, the current administration has said, do not trust the media, do not trust the news, we will tell you what you need to know. And that's just dangerous whether you're a Democrat, a Republican, a socialist. You don't want the Republicans to do it. You don't want the Democrats to do it. This is why the remedy is to search independent media. And it's out there. You can go to the peer-reviewed scientific journals. And they can be skewed. They can be.

And I've seen them publish things and take them back. But more often than not, you're going to get a pretty straight answer. It's usually, we're not sure. Well, the problem is sometimes papers are hard to read. And a lot of people aren't accustomed to reading those. It's not easy access. It's much easier just to listen to your local. It's time-consuming.

Yeah, and all those things. So the information is out there. But you're asking, this is one of the ways that we are driven to make choices in our lives. And sometimes those choices aren't good for us. Why would that happen? That's where you've got to go back to that bigger. It's not happening in a vacuum. There's a concerted movement to move populations and to lead us to think in very, very specific ways.

In my opinion, they're not good for us. And these are all examples of how that happens. If there's a struggle for our divinity, how do we win that struggle? And this was really, this is where a very deeply spiritual evolution happens here. Because the idea of winning, that's an old idea, of conflict against conflict. We don't want to win. We want to triumph. The way we triumph in this ancient struggle, if the goal of the struggle is to deny our divinity, we triumph by living our divinity.

by living the best version of ourselves, by imagining freely and sharing our innovations openly with one another, the ability to share information by loving without fear, healing our bodies, forgiveness of one another, empathy, sympathy, compassion for our brothers and sisters. Those are the qualities that allow us to triumph over this fundamental, in this fundamental struggle. And when we don't, and we're talking about climate change, we're talking about the pandemic. The question is, what do we become in the presence of what life brings to our doorstep? When an election doesn't go the way that we thought was going to go, or when we find that we've been lied to, what do we allow that to do to us? Do we allow it to drive us to become something we would never be in a million years, to become a hateful, vengeful being?

And I've seen this happen, and now you all have and our viewers have as well. When we have to push back on an idea, this is the big one for me, do we push back from our love of the people and our family and our community that stand behind us or from our hate and our fear of what we perceive in front of us? That is the spiritual quandary that we find when, because we're all faced with a changing world, and we're gonna push back. Do we push back from our love or from our fear and from our hate? And the answer, it might have the same outcome,

ultimately in the physical world, but on a spiritual basis. We're gonna get through all this. We're gonna get through this convergence point. We're gonna get through all this crazy stuff. We're gonna get through it. The question is, what have we become as we've gone through this?

What have we allowed the events of the world to drive us to become. That's why I wanted to say in this book, I'm acknowledging systems thinker. There's a fundamental struggle within that struggle. These things are happening to deny us from being the best version of ourselves. When we can claim our divinity, claim the best version of ourselves, moving forward in that rather than fighting against the things we don't like. It's a very, very different way of living. I was just thinking that made me think of one of the kind of interpretations of one of the core prayers in Jewish liturgy. There's a section of the Shama, which is like the main, it's one of the main components of the Jewish prayer service.

And there's this paragraph about the punishment, right? I'm just going to be clear, because this is, you know, liturgical. There's a paragraph about the punishment. that happens if we don't fulfill all of these things. And the prayer is about love. It's about if we do not love in a particular way, there's a punishment. And I'm using like punishment in quotes because, you know, so the punishment is that, you know,

the rains will not come. The earth will not produce what it needs to. You will not be sustained by this planet. And my rabbi, shout out to Chaim Seidlerfeller, he gives an interpretation that this is an ecological, statement from thousands and thousands of years ago that there are certain behaviors that unite us and connect us. And when we become distanced from one another and from God, right, there are repercussions. And it's kind of interesting because what many people would say, right, is this

increased distance from each other, ourselves, and God has led to also a disregard and a disrespect for the planet itself and what's happening. The rains are not coming like they should, right? The earth is going in different directions, right? Either drought or genetically modified things that none of us should be eating, right? And I'm not saying that like the prophecies of the, you know, prayers that Judah Ben Nassi, I think Judah Hanasi, you know, codified in the Mishniac area. But I'm not saying that those are coming true and that that's my prophecy coming true,

but the notion that there's an ancient belief, and it's not just restricted to Judaism, there's an ancient belief that what we do and how we behave has larger implications on the planet. It's not insignificant. And that goes even one step further, if you're familiar with the Dead Sea Scrolls. Have you studied the Scrolls? I haven't studied. I've seen them several times, but yeah. The War Scroll.

This is fascinating to me. I mean, the oldest records of the Old Testament, unedited, and there were 11 caves initially, It was in cave number one, the first cave and the first vase that they found and the first scrolls they found, one of those scrolls was called the War Scroll. And they did not want that to be released to the public until, and they didn't until 1995. And you have to say, what could possibly warrant the time and energy and the money to keep that from being shared? Well, there's a piece of that war scroll. It describes the things you're talking about, and it goes further. And it describes a series of battles.

Some are won by what are called the Sons of Darkness, and some are won by what are called the Sons of Light. The last battle, the Sons of Light prevail, but there's a catch. And the catch is the Sons of Light prevail through divine intervention. However, the people of the Earth must accept their own divinity for that divine intervention to be possible. And the notion being that we're not talking about prophecy, here. We're talking about a consciousness

that exists, right? Has existed, again, in other traditions as well, this consciousness of a connection to the divine as, you know, a sort of healing force. It's just, you know, this is where language is probably insufficient because we're talking about these deeply spiritual

concepts with a limited language of English and all the baggage that comes with words like love and like divine and like evil and all those things. I mean, There are other languages we could talk about us living in a simulated reality and the construct and the algorithms that drive the construct and what triggers certain protocols and the algorithms. We could talk about it that way and we'd lose a lot of people and other people with Silicon Valley would love it. And they do.

But I think this is where it's important. Are we living in a simulation? The odds are more or greater than, can we talk about that? Sure. Oh, yeah. Well, you're familiar with Nick Bostrom's algorithm. Ish. Okay, 2001, Nick Bostrom was the first that actually scientifically attempted to answer the question. They've been asked since the 1940s.

When the first computers were developed in 1940s, one of the first things that was asked was, are we living in a computer program? If we can do this here, has someone else done that and we're in the computer program? That's a big question in 1940s, you know? So Nick Bostrom, 2001, he took the world as it is, his philosopher, the University of Washington, I think, is where he was from, and wrote his thesis on this, took a number of algorithms, plugged them in, ran the algorithms, ran the algorithms, I'm sorry, plug them in the algorithm, ran that. The odds came back that is greater that we are in a simulated reality than we're not. This is probably not a base reality that we're probably living some kind of a construct. It flows with almost every indigenous tradition because the Hindus have always said,

this is the Maya, this is the illusion. The biblical traditions say we come from somewhere else. We're here for a while. This isn't the real world. We're going to learn something here that we're going to need where we go next. The Kabbalistic tradition says that we're just being projected onto a screen.

And so now the physics is actually showing the double-slude experiment was the reinterpreted double-sled experiment that just like if you do a visual, video game on these computers. And it's a complex video game. The computer cannot put the entire, if there's like a jungle with buildings and houses and rooms, it's not all there at once. Right. It only appears when that part needs to be interacted with. The double-slit experiment suggests that our reality works that way as well. I remember studying this in physics. Yeah. And now there are,

we're looking at things like the Mandela effects, obviously, which is very real and is increasing. What's that? The Mandela effect is where we have a collective memory. Are you familiar with the Mandela effect? No. Okay, Nelson Mandela. I was like, I know Nelson Mandela. There was a segment of the population that believed that he died when he was in jail.

And another segment said, no, he went on to become a president. And then these other things, like people began remembering the fruit of the law. label on underwear with a cornucopia that they say does not exist and never exist. If you Google it, the logo says it never existed, but you and I know it did because we're living a slightly different. Wait, hold on a second. No, it doesn't stop there. It doesn't stop there.

I mean, it's the monocle on the guy. I remember a cornucopia. Yeah, I do too. But if you Google it, they'll say. Olivia, I think you're too young. Cornucopia? No. Yeah.

Cornucopia? You're Canadian. I don't even know what a cornucopia is. Oh, my God. A cornucopia is, it's like a... In his reality, there's no cornucopia! It's like a little... I'm just, this is one example, but there are many.

It's like a horn made of... It's like a shofar, but it's bigger, and it's still out of it on Thanksgiving. Yeah, all the fruit comes out, and it was a label in the back of my underwear when I was a kid. I remember that. So these are all instances where the... Is it like a glitch in the Matrix? It's a reset. It's a little reset.

Hold on. So we have the picture here of the cornucopia. Well, let's put it on. No, but people could have made that. But yes, that's what I picture. That's what you think. Here, I remember this. They're saying it never existed.

If you, Fruit of Lume says they never had that logo. And we all know they did. There are lyrics. No, no, they did. But there are lyrics of songs that I was singing when I was in the 60s. And now those lyrics have. What lyrics? One of them.

I like folk music from the 60s. So I'm curious. Not folk music in the 70s. when mama told me when I was young, be a good boy, don't ever play with guns. Yes. And they say that's not what. What is it? They changed it to something.

I don't know. These are all called Mandela effects that are happening. If you look it up, you're going to see, and there are new ones coming in all the time. They are suggestive. I think they're suggested to the fact that, like, we want to have alternate interpretations that are in many cases transcendental, meaning. When you think about interpretations of events that we know about from thousands of years ago, I mean, even, I don't want to like get controversial, but Christianity, right? Sure.

He died. He came back, right? These are all things that were in the vernacular. If we're in a simulation, if we're in a simulated environment. And I'm fascinated by this. I work with simulations when I was a senior computer systems designer during the Cold War. The purpose, a simulation, a simulation as a beginning. I'm scared now.

No, it has a beginning. Well, it means, okay, simulation has a beginning. It has an end. There are rules in that simulation. And what's so interesting is, I'm surprised your guests haven't talked about this. What's interesting is in a simulation, you can always talk to someone outside the simulation for help. We're always told our existence has a beginning. It has an end.

We've got rules that we're supposed to follow. And when you close your eyes and you communicate with a higher source, you're communicating outside of the same thing. Outside that, you're saying, hey, I need some help. The purpose of a simulation is to learn in a relatively safe environment, something you need for wherever it is that you're about to go to. And all of our traditions say we're only here temporarily. Okay, I have a question. Okay. I have a simulation and you have one and Valerie has one.

Are we connected in this simulation or my simulation is everything here? There's, there are consensus. I'm asking. Consensus realities. Can he come with me? I like him a lot. Yeah. I apologize. I didn't know. No, I assume that this was common knowledge because there's so many of your guests I thought that probably had. We've definitely touched on the simulation. But there's also like the techno-utopia simulation where we're actually in a manufactured environment versus using it as an analogy that, you know, the simulation is that many of the Earth's qualities, resemble computer programming, such as we're in the consciousness field. There are rule sets,

there are cause and effects. We are limited by what we can perceive and sort of we are creating our reality based on the perception of the mind and the programming that we have. So I wonder sort of where your perspective is, do you see it as an analogy or do you see it as more realistic like we are actually in the computer? I think it's not a computer. I think it's safe to say we are in a construct. This is probably not a base reality. And there's so little of us here to begin with. You know, we're 99.99% empty atoms anyway. And your higher self is you outside the simulation. From a biblical perspective, this is a false world. The Gnostic texts that were denied by the early Christians, and they were forbidden by the Catholic Church. When you go back and you read what those are

all about, that there is, there was a world of perfection and there were powerful beings that began creating copies of that world. One of those copies is a flawed copy. And we happen to be in what they would call a flawed copy or a construct. And the flaw is the evil that we see here that we're trying. So that's, you know, people that are biblically inclined that they would see they would see it from that perspective doesn't make it doesn't make it less real and doesn't mean that this isn't important the thing that i get worried about and that many people don't worry don't worry it's all good no but when you talk about when i hear the reason that i sort of don't love the concepts of good and evil and i understand them um historically and i understand

you know i speak hebrew and i study biblical hebrew and like you know i'm into that but the thing that I get worried about is a lot of the conversation about good and evil often comes from more fundamentalist communities. And the people who are evil are usually the ones who, like, for example, don't accept Christ as their savior. So you're not worried about the concept. You're worried about the perception of the concept. Correct. Yeah, and I'm with you on that. Right. I'm totally with you. And then I'm like, I don't know. Do I fit in this simulation? You know? Well, this simulation apparently is moving towards some kind of, a reset or a convergence point.

Right. Because those people think that they're right. They do. And that they're good and other people are. And it's all based in fear. Right. You know, if you don't do this, you're not going to make it. That's the way I...

I'm kind of cool with what everybody wants to do, just leave me alone. I think this is, even if you're not into the simulation theory, when we deny our humanness is when we get into trouble. Right. When we embrace the potential of our humanness, when we live from love. Yes. We love ourselves enough to be the best version of ourselves. We've triumphed in the simulation.

That's what the simulation would be all about. So, yeah, I don't think there's anything. That's why we say the Lord is testing. I keep being tested. What we're seeing is a breakdown of the unsustainable systems. And they're all unsustainable right now. Financial systems, economic systems, political systems, climate systems right now, the way they're being engineered.

Have you done geoengineering? Have you had any people talking about, well, geoengineering? is a big, big part of what's happening in our lives right. But all these are unsustainable. So we're at this convergence point, and at the same time, we're being asked to give away our humanness in exchange for technology. My point is that the technology outside of our bodies

we can allow to serve us, but not to enslave us. And if we put that technology, if we adapt it in mass at birth and we allow these ideas put forth by people like the WEF, by people like the UN, who lobby U.S. Congress, just like oil and gas and pharmaceuticals, they're lobbying for these principles. And people that are not aware of the drawback can become vulnerable, especially young people, can become vulnerable to giving themselves away the tech because they've never been taught how rare and beautiful and precious their bodies are. And if we think for a moment that there's

not something, the chaos in the world is an indication of how precious our divinity is within us. Because the more chaos you see, that's how much it takes to divert and distract us from opening the door to the deep truth of who we are in here. And as we get closer to this, what you're seeing is more chaos because it takes a lot of chaos to keep us spun up in the fear and in the hate and in the division. That's the big picture. Not everybody wants to look at that. We don't have to, but that's system thinker. You want to see what's going on now. What do you do about in your everyday life? Love and live the best version of yourself. The way that I was described to me from a guy named Narayan Singh who his given name was Michael J. Lincoln. He wrote the messages from the body book,

also a Hayhouse author, passed away a few years ago now. Left the simulation. He was out. The way that he described it is that we are, this is a microcosm of some larger reality. You can imagine the larger reality being the energetic field that we're in, that is, was created.

And, you know, he described it as there being sort of a home office where the God who oversees this world is one, of many who happens to just sort of like imagine them working in an office as a middle manager and this was his project to see if you could increase consciousness amongst human beings living in these parameters. And if it was successful, it's kind of all an experiment. And if they can find a way to live together, speaking different languages, seeing each other as different, recognizing that they aren't different at all and not blow each other up and ruin the resources

of the earth, then it will be a success and that information will be taken back to some other larger galactic information system. Mothership. Mothership slash home office. And it will then help translate that information into learning and what should be created next. So this is largely an experiment. And he believed that the deck was stacked in the favor of those people who want to wake up

and create the next version of the human experience. but there are obstacles and that we're going to navigate these obstacles so you can see the almost, you know, if it's a game or if it's a movie, there are quote unquote people trying to prevent the goal. And then there are those people who are pursuing said goal. Your face is very twisted, which is great. We'll offer a reaction shot here. Well, just so much of it seems, again, like I just keep coming back to this seems so subjective, right? Like the people who are like, we want Trump or like, he's going to be the savior. And then people who are like, we don't want Trump. Like, he's the devil. Like, it's out of way. And from the perspective of some people, the West is the bad guy and death to the West.

And others, the people who want death to the West or the bad guy. So it is very subjective and hard to parse out when we say good and evil. It's so easy to get twisted. And this is why it's so important to have a solid benchmark. Do the events support or deny? human divinity. That's the benchmark. Okay, so hold on. I'm going to give you a hard one. I mean, I don't think it's not hard for me because I'm who I am and I don't know who you are in this. I'm going to pick a really

hard thing. I'm going to pick homosexuality. Why is that hard? Well, it's not hard for me because I believe that every person deserves to exist, love, do what they want. I have a complete historical and cultural understanding of why the Old Testament says what it does and what it means. Like, I have complete comfort with people being gay, Trant, like, do you? Like, it's all good, love. So there are people for whom that would be those people living divinity, right? They're living, and there would be other people who would use divinity and say that's evil. It's against. So this is the kind of issue where I, I want there to be, I don't like gray. You know, I want there to be like one answer. This is an easy one. This is easy. So. Greg, I want you to give the right answer so badly. Go. Our goal

is to be whole. We want wholeness in our lives. And we will stop at nothing to find our wholeness. And we will deceive ourselves into circumstances and relationships to find that wholeness. All right. So let's talk about energy. If you're not in that body, are you a male or a female? I'm neither. Exactly. Now, you come into this body and to be in this body in the polarity world, you've already given away 50% of your spiritual identity. to be in a polarized body. Yes. All right.

And if your goal is wholeness, you will be drawn to the energetic complement to give you what it was you knew before you were in the body. Okay. All right. So if you're in a female body, you're going to be drawn to a male polarity.

A male's going to be drawn to a female. But what if you come into this world energetically, as I'll just say as a male? Okay. And early in your life. You mean you have X, Y, chromosomes. Yeah. Yeah. And early in your life, you have life experiences where you lose that identity as well. You lose your maleness.

Right. Could be trauma. Sure. Could be. There are all kinds of things. Your goal is your wholeness. You're going to seek to reinforce that energetic signature. You're going to seek to reinforce your masculinity first. Where we get in the trouble is put a label on it. Because maybe it's the first five years of your life. you think that you are interested in another sex. And then at the age of five, you say, man, I think I like the girls. But I've already called myself gay,

and now what am I going to do? If you just let the energy do what the energy does, the energy wants wholeness and completeness. And for some people, without the polarities, you are drawn to both. You're drawn to both to reinforce those. It's where we put the labels on them is where we get into trouble.

And I don't need you to approve. of gay people. That's not what I was asking. Was that the wrong answer? No, I appreciate your answer. And I think also, I think what my question was was, you know, can these things not be subjective? Oh, yeah. Right? I mean, that leads to love and openness. But we come. Which for me is the right answer. Do you know what I mean? Like, like I really don't, I don't really care what you're doing unless you're doing it inside of my body or with me. Do we love ourselves enough to find our wholeness? Right. And to allow other people to find their wholeness. Allow us. allow other people to find their wholeness.

So this is a place where I would say that is in pursuit of goodness. But when it comes to good and evil, evil, that's why I'm going to go back. Evil is the denying of our divinity. Denial of our imagination, creativity, our ability to love, to forgive, empathy, sympathy, compassion, all of those things. This is like hot-button issues with Greg. Yeah, well, I didn't, you know, this is unscripted. We had no idea where it's going to go. No, it's great.

By the way, I'm not conservative or progressive either one. I'm an optimist. I'm also a realist. And I believe ultimately this political system we're in right now, they're going about different ways. If you look close, they're both leading us a lot in exactly the same place. Deception is the name of the game. And there's a lot of deception until we begin looking. That's why you have to have a context. before my mom left this world, my little Jewish four-foot, eight-inch tall mama, she shrunk from 4-11 to 4-8. She said to me, and I kind of know what she meant, she says, Greg, the world is going to hell in the handbasket. Now, the hell part I always got, the handbasket part, I wasn't sure. Well, she's Midwestern, right? She was.

But what it appeared to her that the world was coming apart at the seams for no apparent reason, and it was just this willy-nilly, one-on-old. off here, off there. There's a process, and there is a sequence of events, and the process has a beginning and an end, and we're in that process. That process is that we are barreling down the road towards this convergence point, cosmologically, geologically, economically. I mean, all these cycles are converging, and it's how we respond to those cycles. The struggle between good and evil is driving our response. And if we don't know that, if we're, if we allow ourselves to be deceived, and it's so easy because you see it in music. I mean, I'm a music, my wife's a voting member of the Grammys. And we have this conversation all the time. And, and where the

evil is coming up in, in musical, not just lyrics, but in the way the music is performed, does it enhance or deny our divinity? And I think we have to keep coming back to that. Anything that denies our divinity, our ability to heal and imagine and create and forgive and love is an expression of evil. Doesn't mean the people know they're evil. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that there are people that have a propensity for greed and control who will fall into evil practices because of their propensity. They may not even know what they're doing. If this is all a test, an evolution of human love and capacity to love. What is a version of the world without the military industrial complex fueling our economy?

Like, how does the world operate? We just no longer have defenses. There's no longer war. People are just living in harmony with one another. Like, is there a version of that world that is within our grasp in the next 25 years? Like, how do you see the future? I don't think it's this world. That's literally what he asks every morning when he wakes up.

I don't think it's this exact, this is what we're doing. We've outgrown that polarity, and we're moving toward a world where we, I think in this generation, you'll see young people walk away from war as a means to solve their problems. They'll be told to go to war and they won't do it. I think we're going to see that. You're already seeing it. You saw it in Vietnam, too. You're seeing it.

But I mean, you're seeing it on the battlefield now in Europe. You're actually seeing that happen. As long as we live in the world of polarity, I think we're always going to have a challenge. It's how we as a species meet that challenge and how we choose to evolve. Have we outgrown the need to hurt one another to solve our problems? That's where we're going with us. We have a generation of leaders who we have outgrown. They're leaders from another world, another era.

And I worked in the industry during the Cold War. I saw the way these people think. And we're outgrowing that right now. And this is so fascinating. It takes one generation. It takes one generation. Usually the amount of change that we see happening right now is spread out over maybe a century. And in one generation, I mean, think about it.

We've gone from vinyl to digital music. I mean, how in the world? Yeah, we are. How in the world did that happen? And I think we've gone through so much change. And we're wired to accept that change. We have to be willing to do that. But I think we will see that world.

And I think that world is, I think we'll see it within our lifetimes. I don't think we're going to see mushroom clouds on the horizon. That is a potential we could have. Have you studied the Torah codes? Are you familiar with the Torah? A bit, yes. Okay. I've worked with it.

the scientists who've actually built that the algorithms. One of them just Eli Rips died recently. The other two are still here. One of the redeeming factors for me is when you look at the Torah codes, and I'm assuming our viewers know that the Torah codes are converting the first five books, the Hebrew Bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus Numbers, Deuteronomy, into number the Gamotri equivalent of the letters and using computer algorithms to search, very specific sequences. Yeah, the book that came out that most people probably have heard of was Bible Code. Michael Drozman. Yeah, which scared a lot of people. And it, you know. Well, here's the good news. The only two places where atomic holocaust, atomic war, nuclear, anything comes up. The last time that

happened was in 83. So doesn't mean we won't have a limited exchange somewhere, but I don't think we're going to see nuclear winter and a lot of the frightening things that have been possible. I think I think we've outgrown it. I think we switch that timeline enough. Enough of us chose peace in the world. All it takes, maybe you've done this experiment. If you send a projectile from the earth to the moon and from the earth, you move that projectile, the trajectory just a little bit by the time it gets the moon, that's way off. We don't have to all choose peace, but enough people can say we don't want to hurt our brothers and sisters. sisters to solve our problems. That little shift by the time we get to the timeline where the war happens, we're nowhere near that. And I think we see that happen more than we give ourselves credit for. Speaking of time, I want to ask about this fractal time calculator, which is really,

really cool. I think I'll remember the 2012 phenomenon that we're still actually playing out right now. 2012 was the year in the Mayan calendar. Many people said the world was going to end. Oh, I knew those people. Yeah, well, they never said that. They said it was the end of one cycle in the beginning. Tom did. Tom, if you're listening, I remember you said that. Well, they said it was the beginning of the end of one cycle, the beginning of the cycle it comes next.

But here's the interesting part. When you look at cosmological cycles, they don't turn on a dime. There's a buffer between the end of one cycle and the beginning of next. And there is a factor that you can apply to any cycle to know when that buffer is. and that is part of what we're doing here. So for 2012, for example, 2012 was the midpoint of a 36-year-long cycle, 18 years before and 18 years after. 18 years after is the year 2030.

2030 is technically the end of the Mayan cycle. So my concept as a mathematician and someone looks at cycles, I said, what if time is fractal? That concept had not been explored very much when I was writing this book. Not this book, but the fractal time book. And so I began exploring 9-11 from that perspective. If time is fractal, it means, what it means is that an event will set into motion a quality of energy that will repeat the conditions on a knowable, predictable basis. That's true for world events. It's true for our own relationships.

And to test it, the first one I tested was 9-11. So I said, what happened on 9-11, America was surprised and attacked. When was the last time that happened? Well, it was Pearl Harbor. So I took Pearl Harbor as what's called a seed date. I applied the algorithm. And that seed date told me the next fractal cycles when I could expect America to be surprised and attacked again, September.

11, 2001 was the third fractal of that. It doesn't predict it must happen. It says that the conditions that led to the first experience. What's that mean for human relationships? I am the product of a very dysfunctional, alcoholic, abusive family. And it shows up in my life in interesting ways. Let me do a good example. My father left when I was 10. I lied about my age and went to work in a factory as a union worker and I worked 4 p.m. to 4 a.m. Union, 12 hour shifts. As a 10 year old? I was 14 when I began doing that. And I remember I was standing by a time clock where they used to hand out physical checks in the old days. And the foreman came up and he gave me this physical check and he looked me in the eye and he said a man's wages for a man's work.

I mean, as a kid trying to contribute to the family, that meant a lot to me. And that put into motion a cycle of abundance for me. And that cycle comes up when I got my first corporate book deal with Random House. It comes up when I got my first corporate job, even without a degree. I shouldn't have gotten my first job because I had no degree, but they needed the expertise. It was the Arab oil embargo. America needed oil. I had a rare combination of computer science and geology that not many people had.

They said, we're going to hire you. And the work you're doing, you can apply that to your degree, and you'll get your degree just by doing this job. And I said, you're going to pay me to get my degree? And they said, yeah. And those were all, they all fell exactly on the fractal cycles of that first moment when I felt that feeling of what it felt like to be able to contribute to my family, contribute to the world, and to be compensated for that in a meaningful way. That's interesting. But I've also done the same thing with all my divorces. How many times have you been divorced?

You know, this is a hard business of relationships. I'm married to Martha. Martha is my fourth marriage. Wow. It's almost every, well, almost every 10 years. She got nervous in our 10-year. I bet she did. But this month is 15 years.

Wow. 15-year. That's really sweet. Yeah. Well, it's really fun and we'll include the link so that people can do their fractal time calculator. So what people can do is you can either use a year of a pivotal event or you can use your age of a pivotal event. It can be a good thing or it can be a healing. it can be an abundance experience.

It can be a divorce, a breakup, because the point is that it's all energy. And when we have those experiences, there's an emotional imprint that will set into motion in the field, a cycle of energy. And we'll repeat that on known and predictable sequences. And this is where it gets really interesting.

There's a little place at the beginning when a cycle ends and before the next one begins, there's a place where neither exists. Okay? In time, 2012, it's the 36-year cycle, all right, when anything goes. For humans, that point where one of our cycles ends before the next one begins is an opportunity called the choice point. And it's in that choice. You can always choose.

But it is when the deck is stacked in your favor to energetically to make really good choices in life. And that's why I, and it's on our website. There's a fractal time calculator. I remember when my kids were little, there was a series of kind of progressive, holistic books about every year of your child's development. And they would always talk about that when you get near a birthday, something is stirring, you know? And I would notice that right, like right before a birthday, usually a couple weeks, like there'd be an extra energy. And there was this notion and for the hippies among us, you know, I would recount to my children literally all the way through junior high and into high school, I would recount to them the night of their birth, what happened the night of

their birth. You know, and it was like it's an energetic. Now it's like, oh, my gosh, she's going to tell my birth story again. But the notion was we are circling around, you know, we're coming around to it. It's very, very interesting to me. It's, yeah, so interesting. I, when my mom was alive on my birthday, you know, dementia. They always say the oldest memories are the last to go.

So when I was a kid, five years old, I always told my mom, I said, I'm going to live 200 years. I'm on the 200 year plan. And so every year I would go to see my mom and I'd point to her tummy on my birthday. And I'd say, I came from there and I'd say thank you for bringing me in this world. And the last time before she passed, late stage dementia. And I pointed to her and I said, I said, you know, I came from your tummy. And she goes, you did. And I said, yeah.

And she goes, well, I guess I could wish you happy birthday. She said, but you're on the 200-year plan. So I don't have to. And it was one of those moments of clarity and then it was gone. Did you ever connect with your dad or no? My father, he left when I was 10. I didn't know him well. And he died from all the abuses of his body.

I mean, everything you can imagine. He died pretty young. You're an only child? No, I have a younger brother, four years younger. Wow. What's he like? We are like night and day. I was going to say, I bet he's like a corporate.

If we, no, if we, he proudly, I didn't, and maybe he's watching this, his name is Eric. Sorry, Eric. He proudly calls himself a Missouri redneck. And we are like night in day. Wow. And we look different. We're built different. He's a very thick, you know, Midwestern stock.

I'm, I've been more of a European body somehow. I guess it's, you know, from my mom's side. And he's a really, he has a good heart. He's a sweet man in the inside, a little tough on the outside. I have to say the passing of my mom brought us together in a way that we hadn't since we shared a house. as kids to honor her in her passing. And it was sad. Yeah, it was a very beautiful thing.

I wonder if you have insights on dementia. My grandfather went through it. And recently, I forget who, I heard it described that the soul or consciousness starts leaving the body and actually traveling around as someone has dementia. I'm curious what your insights are. And from a spiritual perspective, what you think has happened. Yeah, well, this is why I want to do that experiment first. Think back to the neuron and pong.

That neuron is connecting to something that's not in the body. It's connecting the field. And what the science suggests is our memories don't live in our bodies. That our bodies are the antenna that connect to the place in the field where there are no secrets where those memories live. For my mom, I watch this happen. And I've seen it happen with celebrities as well, but I'll use my mom specifically. She began saying in her 60s, she just wanted to forget all of the hurt in her life. She wanted to forget the abuse from her husband, my dad.

She wanted to forget the suffering that her family had gone through as a Jewish family. They denied their Hebrew tradition, changed their names, I mean, everything, didn't want anybody to know. And I have to say, when my mom left this world, she was a very happy woman because she'd forgotten everything that ever hurt her. And what that means biologically, this is how powerful we are. I took her to the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale, Arizona, when she started having problems. I knew she had dementia, but there were different kinds. And we ran through weeks worth of tests. And at the end on the Friday afternoon, they bring it all together, and they say this is what's up. My mom's body began producing a chemical that matched her desire to forget everything that ever hurt her.

What that chemical did. Well, you know this. That chemical lodged itself in the synapses and absorbed. She would have the attempt to access a memory, but the signal was absorbed by a chemical that would not allow that synapse to complete the transmission. So I think there's a pretty strong body of evidence out there. A lot of people call it anecdotal. Remember Ronald Reagan when he was on trial a bigillion times he declared to the world that he'd forgotten. And ultimately, he did.

I know others. Elderly people often as a result of trauma. And I'm going to speak specifically to trauma in the war. the acts that they had committed as soldiers, male soldiers in war, that they never were taught how to reconcile. They had so much guilt around what they had done to another human in the name of war that they wanted to forget those things. And the guilt that they felt around that. And our bodies are so smart. Your body will just do what you ask your body to do.

And your body says, you want to forget. I can do that for you. And that's from a psychospiritual perspective, I think there's a, it's more than anecdotal. So from that way of thinking, it's really the integrated person who is able to maintain the antennae and the access to all the information that they need in order to function properly. And it's from those deep parts of pain that feel unintegrated, unprocessed that may increase the body's shutdown. Jonathan, I love it when you talk that way, because you summarize that in a really beautiful way.

What I'll say is that I've spent much of my adult life. I've been privileged and blessed to travel into some of the most isolated and beautiful and magnificent and remote and pristine places remaining in the world today to find the indigenous people and the legacy that they have left from the highlands of Central China and Peru to, or Tibet and into Peru and the Yucatan and India and Nepal all through the desert southwest and the Sudan and all the, not the Sudan, through the Sahara. And this is a common theme. It's not just, you know, American spirituality or Western spirituality, but they believe that there's a part of us that doesn't reside in the body. And that's what the science is suggesting. and that we have the ability to determine the quality of our access to that part of ourselves. If we do nothing and do nothing to maintain it and live the destructive lifestyle that we've been

conditioned and indoctrinated to accept in the West, it appears to be common that we will lose access to that. It's not natural for us to do that. And I was with a friend of mine recently. He's 96, 97. He used to travel all those trips. He was a liaison for a company that put all those trips together. And I talked to him recently, and I said, you know, how are you doing?

He says, oh, Greg, I have to tell you, I have to keep reminding myself, I'm not 90 anymore. You know, I can't do what I did when I was 90. And it's about a way of thinking. So if we create like another way of envisioning getting older, Yes, you slow down a little bit, but you can maintain your faculty. It's not the aging that's the problem. It's not how far you've moved in time. It's whether or not you've deteriorated as you move through time.

What the science is showing is that when we accept our divinity, when we love ourselves enough to accept the potential of what it means to be human, among the many things that happen, there are longevity enzymes that live in every human. We all have them that are awaiting a trigger that awakens them. That trigger, one of the triggers, is a decrease of molecular stress. This isn't stress from driving down the 680 freeway or... It's an internalized.

Well, you know, we have stress. When you drink water that is full of impurities, your body will compensate for that. You don't even know it, but that's a form of stress. Or when you eat food that hasn't been prepared well. But seed oils, for example. on high heat. You can do it. It might taste good. Your body is compensating for that. You don't even know it, but on a molecular level, there's a lot going on. And when we accept all the potentials, including the potentials of super memory, super longevity, super resilience, super healing,

heart brain coherence is a big part of awakening those kinds of things. And other, there are seven epigenetic triggers, I think, that will answer your question. Thought, feeling, emotion, breath, movement, nutrition, and focus. And these are with the Tibetan monks. The focus where they put the focus in the body, how they feel about that part of the body. But the epigenetics shows us very clearly that we are soft and malleable all the way down. It's not just neuroplasticity. We're talking about cellular plasticity.

We're talking about genetic plasticity. And that's what sets us apart from every other life. No other form of life was given the ability at will on demand when we choose to access those epigenetic triggers. It's our divinity that allows us to do that. The forces of evil that want to keep us repressed, of course, want to veil the power of human divinity. But rather than fight back on the forces, just live the divinity. Just live it. Just live your best life.

I love the explanation of the seven points because it shows that there's internal mechanisms happening that our thoughts, our love, our spiritual connection is actually interplaying with. Years ago, this was like before the longevity movement. It was sort of in the early 2000s, I thought about lifespan. And this was sort of after I had talked

and listened to Michael J. Lincoln talking about the consciousness experiment. I thought 135 seems like a good plan for how old someone could be. Sure. You're on the 200 year plan. Just rounded up to 200. Do you think that that is an achievable goal? Like, where did you get 200 from?

Did it just pop up in your head? Well, I was five years old. I don't know where that. It was part, when I was five years old, I almost died. I took, I'm looking at an electrical cable up here. I took an electrical cable in our house, and I'm not sure what I was thinking consciously, but I stripped all the insulation off, and I walked over to a wall plug, and I put one side and one and the other side and the other, and held on for dear life, and it burned my hands,

burned my face, burned all the hair off, my face. It was, I'm lucky to be here. One of the consequences of that is that my body functions differently. When you survive that, your body functions differently. You metabolize a little bit. it differently. And I said to my mom at that time, I said, I'm on the 200-year plan. I want to see how this world turns out. I want to see all the good things. We've worked so hard. I want to see the good things that happened. And I would like to be able to help my global family any way I can. We're going through some very difficult times. And I think we're going to see more because there's an evolutionary process of breaking down the systems that are unsustainable. And

The beauty is the new systems aren't here yet. We're building them. And they can only be built if we have a vision of what's possible, and it begins with us. This is the thing. Everything we're building out here is a reflection of the way we see ourselves, the way we use the technology. If we believe we're weak and powerless, we're going to ask that technology to do it for us. If we believe that we are a rare and precious form of life and that that technology can

support us in being the best version of ourselves, making good choices and maybe exploring the world in ways we don't know how to do. That's a whole different world. That's a whole different world. It's a whole different way of thinking. I have to ask about the electrocution because we have a friend of the podcast who really had a beautiful episode with us and we've kept in touch with a woman named Elizabeth Crone who got struck by lightning. She nearly died or medically died, came back, saw herself, had a whole extra sensory experience where she believed that she was in a garden for two weeks and got downloaded all this sort of information.

I'm curious if that electrocution, you know, if you were only five, did it change your consciousness? Did it... Do you really want... You want to talk about this? I'm okay to talk about. People don't ask, so I don't talk about it much.

I'll tell you exactly what happened. It happened in broad daylight. I couldn't speak. I couldn't even tell my mom what had happened. I was just in shock. In those days, doctors used to come to the house. Back in the olden, back in the olden days, I was lying in my bed, waiting for the doctor that my mom had called,

and my bed was in the corner of a room. So I had a wall behind me and a wall to one side. In broad daylight, while I was there, all of a sudden, I felt two hands underneath the back of my head, and I knew they couldn't be there because there's a wall behind me, and I rolled my head back, and I could see a being behind me that had my head in his cradled hands, and my feet was a second one.

They were very tall. They had maroon-colored robes, and I couldn't see their faces because they had hoods. Were you out of your body? Nope. I was lying in that bed. I was very conscious. And that was the first time I became aware of a world that other people couldn't see, that I was seeing in that moment

and that certainly influenced my ability to think differently about the world. There was a communication that happened that has been constant since that time. I know what those voices sound like. As a scientist, I don't talk about it a lot because there's no context.

But you asked... What do you believe they were? They are... I mean, were they angels? Were they guides? Were they... I don't use those terms. I think it was a, they were higher dimensional life force, maybe from outside the simulation.

That's the beauty and the simulation. You can pop in and you can pop out. Or they are just another part of the simulation. If the physical reality is only part of it and that all the information exists in the field, then of course there are beings in the field that are operating outside of our visual wavelength. That's very true. Yeah. And that was my first experience of a world that I couldn't see,

but that I knew they existed because I was seeing it. My mom came in and she said she didn't see anyone. I said, you can't see these beings. Because at five, you don't have the filter to say, wait a second, I shouldn't be talking about that. So the rest of the story, two weeks later, I had a drowning. I walked into a swimming pool on the show. That didn't calculate in my fractal calendar of when you were five. Wasn't supposed to happen until you were eight.

0.090. I literally, I walked into a pool and just kept walking into the water, got deeper and deeper, and just let go. Were you a spooky kid? I wasn't. What was going on for you? I remember it felt good to let go. And then there was a voice that said, do you want to leave this world? Remember, this is a dysfunctional family.

And I said no, and then somebody pulled me out of the water, and that's when it hurt, when it hurt when they started, they had to pump the water out of my lungs and my nose and all that. But the point that I was before that happened, it was an amazing, it taught me what it feels like to let go, to absolutely let go. And that has become a very powerful point of reference. Okay, I'm going to ask you another question. When did you first meet God? I don't know. I don't think of God probably the way that you think of God. Maybe I don't think of God the way you think I think of God. Well, from, this is where the Gnostic texts are fascinating to me. And you have to ask, why would they have been banned and why did so much energy go into keeping the translations public for, they discovered in 1945, the Vatican still is fighting to have some of them never be released. they describe a reality that I think is much closer to the reality that we live in. An ultimate reality, if you want to call it the monad is the term that they use of pure energy,

pure light. I think that's the god. And that there are forces below that that have created artificial copies. And there are localized gods. Your friend was talking about, I think that's what your friend was referring to. very powerful beings, but not the being. And every once in a while, we have someone from that realm comes into our world and shows us what's possible as a reference point, not to be worshipped, but to say, remember who you are. Wake up to the truth of who you are.

And we've had those throughout history. And I think that's very possible in a simulation where somebody in the outside says, hey, they need a little help. and somebody pops in. And the thing about a simulation, you know, say you live 100 years, and you're talking to your guides, and you say, thank you, guide, for waiting, you know, 50 years for me to get back with you. And the guides, they're saying 50 years to you is like a minute to us because that's the way a simulation works.

You can live 100 years here. It might be 10 minutes in that simulation. And then you try it again and you try it again to see, you know, where you can improve. We are running out of time. We could spend another four hours talking to you. So we should record and go ahead and start the conversation. This is a great warm up. Do you consider that you have either mediumship or extrasensory ability that is helping you bring all this information into this now? And for anyone who is trying to connect and access their divinity and is struggling in life, obviously briefly, given,

that we're running out of time, what would you say to them? Well, you just ask two questions. I think we all have that divinity. We all have that potential. I've spent my lifetime healing the hurt and the trauma that I experienced early in life as a path

and I'm a student. I'm still learning. I think the question is, I ask myself, do I love myself enough to open the door to accepting the truth of my own divinity and what can I do to make that little easier for the next and a little easier for the next? And that's the way it seems to work.

Somebody has to do these things first. It's always been that way. And once somebody anchors a possibility, the four-minute mile, you know that story. It's a beautiful story. Once hadn't been achieved hundreds of years. Once somebody did it within the month, other people were doing it because somebody had to do it first and they become the living bridge for those that want to do it. and it becomes easier for the next, the next.

I think we do that for one another. We're doing it for one another, and I want to thank you for your trust. The truth is, you didn't know what we're going to do today, for trust me with your community, and for being the hub of the community that you're creating. Thank you. Because I think it's really important to have honest conversations that,

and I don't think really you and I see things all that differently. When we're looking at, we're scientists, you look at data, and that data, it's the way we interpret the data, you know. But there are a lot of stories out there that want us to see the data in a certain way. And I think the hardest thing for me has been to cross the traditional boundaries that have separated the sciences in the way I was taught in the past to weave that knowledge into a wisdom that makes more sense and allows us to apply it in the lives of our friends and in the world that we have today. So thank you for that. And thank you for the conversation.

The book is Pure Human, the hidden truth of our divinity, power, and destiny. What does your hair do on the weekends? You know, they told me... They told me when I was in my 40s, if I could keep it, through 40s, it would be okay. And then they said the same thing in 50s, and they said the same thing in 50s, and they said the same thing in 70s. But does it do this all weekend? In 70s. I'm just happy it's there.

Thank you so much, Greg Braden. Really. Pleasure to talk to you. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. If you aren't already following us on Substack, check out Miami-Bi-Alex breakdown on Substack. It's where the breaker community is congregating and getting exclusive content that's not released anywhere else. Maim and I are going to look at the fractal time website and we are going to plug in some of our own dates to see where the opportunity for new experiences, where the situation is ripe for having amazing breakthroughs potentially. We should put in when we started our substack and see what happens.

And when next we'll have a creative moment. I want to look at the moment that you first started acting, your beaches moment. I want to look at your divorce moment. I want to look at the moment where I first came into the podcast room and had this wild sense of deja vu or remembering that I've described in the past. The first thing you're going to want is when you got Archie. I'll look at when I got Archie. I also want to look at my brother's accident. when I was 14 and see what were the circumstances surrounding that would be fascinating.

I have the exact date that we can look at. So follow us on Substack and... From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time in the simulation. It's Miami Alex Breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fiction.

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