Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Reggie Watts: Seek Different Points of View

Episode Date: September 20, 2022

Reggie Watts (bandleader on The Late Late Show with James Corden, Comedian/Writer/Actor) joins us to break down his experiences with depression and psychedelics, the science behind addiction and improvisation, and his plans after The Late Late Show with James Corden comes to an end. He discusses growing up on air force bases and as one of the only POC in his town, the factors from his childhood that influenced his humor and creativity, and what the Seattle grunge music scene was really like in the 90’s. Reggie opens up about experiencing depression derived from body image issues, a bottleneck in creativity, and the current state of humanity. He considers how psychedelics can be used as tools to gain self-understanding, shares the importance of incorporating transcendental experiences into everyday life, and he and Jonathan bond over their optimism about technology. Reggie Watts' Band, Wajatta: https://wajatta.lnk.to/down Reggie Watts' App, WattsApp: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/wattsapp-by-reggie-watts/id1489429381 BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I think there was someone I was dating once and she said, you frustrated a lot, a lot of women haven't you? I was like, I was like, yes. Without any hesitation, I was like, yes, I have. And I know it. And I hate it. I hated it. It's Miami Olegs breakdown. She's going to break it down for you because you know she knows a thing or two.

And now she's going to break down. Hi, I'm Miami Alec and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so that you don't know. have to. We've got an exciting person coming to the table today, as it were. But first, let's say hi to my favorite person to put at the head of the table, Jonathan Cohen. It's a reference for later, everyone. We have a new game we're going to start playing on the podcast. It's collecting memoir titles, and we get a few. I'm going to share them now and see if you can spot them later in the app. A little teaser. One is but for the crying. Dot, dot, dot. Dot.

My name's memoir title. Another one is beautiful but not sustainable. There is context. That may sound me not a context actually, but it's not. And I didn't come up with it, so don't shoot the messenger. And the third one, don't ask me how I am, a memoir. This is just a little game that used to be a private personal thing. And now we've just shared it with all of you.

We have more. And if you want to give us your best memoir title, hit us up on the Instagram, Happy Alec Breakdown. And we don't mean your favorite memoir that you have read. We mean if you were to write a memoir, what would be a funny title? This is a game, again, that was a very personal private thing. But we'll just add it to the list of personal private things that Jonathan and I share with all of you joyfully. Today we're going to be sharing a very special new friend.

His name is Reggie Watts. Now, you may know Reggie Watts because he's the band leader on CBS's The Late Late Late Show with James Corden. The only thing that he's not as a neuroscientist. He's a comedian. He also does incredible kind of improv stand-up that also involves music. He's a beatboxer. He's a beatboxer. He's an absurdist.

Like, his style of comedy is actually classified as absurdist comedy. But he kind of has his hand in, like, technology, and he has an app, and, like, has electric race carp stuff he does. He's such a neat guy. It feels ridiculous. I'm very, very excited to speak to a person I've only waved at across a stage a few times when I've been on the Corden show. Let's welcome to the podcast, Reggie Watts. Break it down.

We've waved at each other across a stage when I've seen you at Corden. But I knew who you were before then. I know who you are now as well. Oh, okay. It's strange if I didn't. This is crazy. Okay. But there's kind of like I kind of want to talk about all the things with you.

You are a person who does many, many things. You're a musician. You're a writer. You're a comedian. It's all just sort of who you are. And you also have a very interesting childhood. You grew up on, is it Army bases or Air Force bases? Air Force bases.

Your dad was in the military. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah. He was in the Air Force. Well, he was in the Army and the Air Force. but you switched to the Air Force I think by the time I was born. Okay, so do you have siblings?

No. So it was you and your parents and you live in all the, you live on different army bases? Is that how it works? Yeah, that's what we do. We just like, we look for a cool army basis to move to.

How many, what's the longest that you stayed in a, let's say between the ages of being born and 18? Like, what's the longest you stayed in one place? I was born in Stuttgart. And then we lived in Germany for, I think, a year. And then we moved to Spain for three years, I think. And then moved to Montana when I was four, Great Falls, Montana. And then I grew up there until I was 18 until I moved out.

Why did you, why did you all settle there? There was an Air Force base, Malmstrom Air Force Base. That was that. Yeah. And I think they chose it because it was because the, I guess the school system was better at that time there than the other option, which I think was like, it's either North Dakota or South Dakota. Your mom is French, correct? Yeah.

She comes from the France ones. What was it like where you were, like, there's not a ton of people in Montana. Like, were you in a big town, small town? Were you the only person of color? Were you the only person whose mom was French? Like, what was it like growing up in what I assume was kind of an idyllic sort of. of place. It was, it was weird. I mean, you know, I mean, obviously I didn't have a lot to compare it to, but I mean, my family was very different, you know, when we moved there, you know, my dad's black,

my mom's white and French. And so there was a lot to overcome, but my mom was, um, very protective, very fierce. So, you know, as soon as we got there, she let everybody know that not to fuck with us basically she's kind of like a thug a little bit you know i showed up in school and i wanted obviously i was young and i wanted to play with you know the kids and stuff and for the most part things were cool there were sometimes people in the neighborhood mine my uh cross the street just down a couple houses this guy or this family that lived there they had like kids and i went over there one day to knock on the door to ask to play and um and i think the guy told me to get off of his property inward and uh and i ran back to the home and my mom was like what did you say and then she

immediately went outside and said like if you touched my kid i will kill you it was like it was like that kind of shit like like in the beginning kind of like when you get in a prison or whatever you're supposed to like find the largest human and and like smack them in the way so my mom just kind of quickly let people know that you don't fuck with this but after that it was i don't know i didn't really, I didn't have a lot of trouble. Maybe there's an amnesia that I have, you know, from growing up that I didn't register certain ways that people were being about me and so forth. But for the most part, I had a pretty good time. I got along with everybody and, you know, had good friends and, you know, you have your playground antics and things that you have to

deal with socially as you grew up like anybody would. But for the most part, I felt like we were pretty accepted. You know, we lived there long enough, and my dad was pretty cool dude. So, yeah, it was interesting. There were nine black kids in my school growing up in the school system. And then, but then because it's an Air Force base, there are a lot of GIs would marry women when they were stationed other places. So I would have half Japanese kids, half Taiwanese kids, half Spanish, half Greek, half, you know,

there were a lot of hybrids, you know, around too. So it wasn't totally. like just me and then like, because it's 98% white in Montana. No, that's why I was asking. Yeah. And what did your, was your, was your, was your mama a creative person? Was she, she was not in the military? No, she was not.

She, I mean, the family, her, you know, the French, well, all of, all of my family, my mom's family had served in the military just because of the world wars and, um, and things of that nature. So they were either police, police humans. or military humans. And so she came from that, but, you know, almost like out of necessity. But so, no, she was just like a worker, you know, just a hard worker type of person. And you started kind of training in music early.

Was your dad musical? No, not really. I mean, my parents, they both loved music very, very much and listened to great music. They had great taste in music. they listen to, you know, like just James Brown and all kinds of jazz and Edith Piaf and Nana Muscuri and just like, yeah, somewhere between like European folk music and jazz and soul and R&B was what they primarily listened to. So they had good taste of music. But my dad played a little bit of saxophone for like maybe two years when he was growing up as a teenager. That was it.

Did you speak French only with your mom or did your dad also speak French in the home? I don't know. My mother says that my dad spoke fluent French when he was in Europe. I don't fully believe that, but I think that he could understand enough and say enough things to get by. But he never spoke French again. As far as I can remember, I don't remember him ever saying anything in French. Very odd. But she spoke to me in French all the time. You kind of took an early interest in music, and that sort of became a lot of your trajectory as a child. Is that right? You started piano and violin?

Yeah, yeah. I started piano when I was around five years old and studied with the same teacher, Mrs. Reasonberg. Well, at the time, her name was Mrs. Rood. But she, yeah, she taught me till age 16. You studied music in college. correct? Like that was your thing. But I'm curious about kind of the the other parts of you besides your musical parts. What were you like as a kid? Because you're an exceptionally diversely creative person and I'm wondering like if we had seen you

at five, at 10, would we have seen the beginnings of who you became? Did you struggle with a lot of the kind of creativity you had? Did it have a place to go? Yeah, I mean, you know, I feel I feel really lucky. I guess I'm one of the few people that, you know, when people ask about their childhood or specifically junior high or high school or even young adulthood, you know, they'll say like, how, you know, was it good? And a lot of people, a lot of my friends are like, no, it was the worst. You know, high school was the worst.

Junior high was the worst. I can't say that. It was awesome. Like I had the best time growing up where I did at the time that I did. And I feel really lucky about that. And there were a few factors, I think, that kind of, kind of insulated or, yeah, encouraged my creativity. So it was the 70s and the 80s when I was growing up in Montana.

Obviously, the economy was doing really well. The United States was doing really well economically. The place that we lived in was very well funded. The school system was doing really well. Had tons of options. Kids had all kinds of options to do anything that they wanted to do. Any instrument you wanted to try out, you could take it home for the weekend. And you could start lessons in fourth grade, fifth grade, art, anything.

So, and then also no networked computation devices. So, you know, so it was all just like free ball in it. You know, like, well, be home at this time. It's like, okay, I'll try. But whatever happens in between is like totally up to me. You know, so I had like, you know, we had the advantage of just being social with each other and being kids. And yeah, and then PBS. You know, just watching PBS and like TV was coming up at the right time.

You know, interesting shows that Jefferson's, the social commentary were happening, you know. And the advent of early video games, you know, the idea of what the future would be like was like the 80s aesthetic of future. Anyway, so it was just like so much stuff for for me to think about and to fantasize about. And as an only kid, I had lots of time to spend by myself just imagining things and playing with toys. and, you know, and then eventually playing with my friends and stuff like that. So that was cool. And then, yeah, and so I feel like I'm lucky to have been born when I was born. And then by the time I got to Seattle in 1990, you know, grunge hadn't hit yet.

Are you the one who brought it? Are you the one who? Yes, I am the person. I am the person. Yeah, yeah. I called it grime. But the media was like, that's not good enough. And so they changed it to grunge.

You know, I just think of like it's envy in the most, you know, loving and healthy way to say like I'm envious of people who who were raised in that environment where there was like just like room, you know, like room to think and grow and spread. And it also, again, because of how I was raised, you know, as the children of public school teachers from New York in the 60s, it was like every child is a genius waiting in there. You know, like everyone has a gift. and you just need the right environment, the right teacher, the right support to let children grow. You know, I think that that area for some reason, Idaho, Montana, Canada, you know, the western side of Canada and so forth, there was just kind of this insulated pocket of perfect, like, oh, there's enough, the economy of scale, you know, was funding this ideal of kids. think they weren't even really thinking about it. I think they were just, here's a bunch of money. And thankfully, people were responsible enough with it, that they were, it was a very generous and abundant existence. So I am aware of the fact that, you know, many people did not have that

that experience growing up and that it was more of a fight, you know. And I think that's why my parents picked Great Falls to tell you the truth, honestly. I mean, there could have been bad racism. But Montana has its own form of racism. It's not really, I don't want to say it's, it's not classic like white supremacist racism. It's, uh, it's more ignorance racism. It's more like, oh, you've got funny hair. Which is still racism. It's real racism, even if it's ignorant. It is. But, yeah. It is. But, but I will say that there is an opportunity to teach somebody right in an ignorant state rather than. Right. There's not a, right, there's not a bureaucratic structure behind that. Right. Exactly. Yeah, there's not a formalized structure to it at all.

So, I mean, a lot of times, you know, kids at school would say things or whatever, and I would like, you know, I had the presence of mind to turn it around and give it right back to them, you know, and then eventually they were like, oh, I just like this guy. And then that was it, you know, and because most of the kids in my school, most of the black kids in my school were actually very popular. They were a popular kid. My M. B. Alex's breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine. Drink more water. There's no real data. There's no game plan. This has happened to me many, many times, especially on the perimenopause journey.

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Make this the year you stop guessing about your health with superpower. Superpower. Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just $199, but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional. additional $20 off with the code break. Head to superpower.com. Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention my ambiolics breakdown to help support the show. I'm curious when you sort of became sort of this personality that we think of now as this person who like, you know, has confidence in what you say? Like, was that just you always? Yeah, hard to say. I mean, I think I, you know what I think it is. I think because I was born in Germany, I was exposed to a lot of cultures at a very young

age, and I was around a lot of different languages at a very young age. And being kind of a hybrid in general in many, many respects, puts you more in an observational state. I mean, it doesn't always guarantee that, but I think there's a higher likelihood that you're a little bit more observational. And I think in being observational, I became very curious about human behavior and just like truly fascinated in it. And so and then being an only child and being exposed to media like watching TV shows, watching the Pink Panther, watching Ray Charles doing his thing, Aretha Franklin doing her thing on, you know, all the comedy like Steve Martin and Carol Burnett showed,

all this TV movie stuff that I was completely fascinated with. I think, and PBS, a lot of period pieces, you know, I think that I became fascinated with language and would emulate and recite back things that I would see on the TV that I thought was funny. If a guy said something in a funny way or a character says something in a certain way, I would repeat it and try to sound exactly like them. So I think through mimicry,

I kind of gained a greater understanding of language. And also the need to express and to be concise about what I'm saying was very important to me because I pride myself on, I love technology and I love complex. I guess complex things, science and so forth. But I love instilling the same excitement I have for it and people that aren't as excited about it

who think that it's above them or think that it's boring or whatever. So there's that need, you know, that need to like, I need to break this down in the simplest way so that I can show them how amazing it is, you know, that type of a thing. Also, you have such an interesting kind of skill set and it sounds like even, you know, just such an interesting kind of sensibility,

even as a young person. Was that always, though, what you wanted to do? You're like, I'm doing music. Yeah, I think so. I mean, when I was, when I was four, you know, I watched a lot of music and I would dance around a lot. And my, you know, my mom saw that I was interested in piano. I had a toy piano. And so that's what kind of prompted her to ask me if I wanted to do to take piano lessons.

And I was super excited about it because also I was a very social kid as well. So I just think music was always. always something that was always a part of my life. I think it was beautiful that my parents loved music and would play music all the time. Music was a big part of their lives. And so I got exposed to a lot of great music and it really, it really triggered me. You know, like it really activated me and and humor too. They've always, you know, and I think about it, I don't remember a time when I didn't love comedy and I didn't love music. I love to love. I love to love. I love it. I love to love laugh and I love music.

It's like, I can't remember when that wasn't true. So was the decision then to go to college and study, I mean, I don't know how many, there are many ways to study music. You can study theory. You can study. Like, what did you actually pursue? Well, when I first moved to Seattle, I went to the Art Institute of Seattle to learn audio engineering.

So I was interested in learning about recording. But for me, as school always generally is, it's just a social opportunity. So I, you know, it was more social for me at that time. But that's where I met my first band, you know, that I played with in Seattle. And yeah, and I met a lot of amazing people that I would later work with in the music scene in Seattle. But then I dropped out of there probably, I want to say, like five months in, five or six months in. And then I took a break for a few years and then decided to study. I thought jazz voice would be a great thing to study.

I had a good ear. I could hear pretty well. And I had enough theory behind me studying violin and piano. But I was more of an improviser. And I wanted to be able to hear more melodic possibilities. When I hear chord structures and chord progressions, I wanted to be able to kind of swim around them very easily. And so, yeah, so I heard about Cornish College of the Arts, and I loved the movie Fame.

So I was like, oh, great, I could study jazz, and I can have an experience that's similar to fame. And so I like, so I tried out with my friend Beth, who's a choreographer, dancer choreographer. And we both tried out together. We decided, like, let's go for Cornish together. And so we did, and we both got in. And I got into the Jazz Voice program. So I studied jazz voice for about two and a half years at Cornish College of the Arts. What did you do in the time that you took off?

I think I always lead with, I think if I think about this all throughout my life, I've always, the carrot that's dangling in front of me, that I'm dangling in front of myself, ultimately, is fun. So for me, I was, I was, I just wanted to be socially involved and to be having a good time socially. And so I think when I dropped out of the Art Institute, it was just because I was living in a house, I was living in a bandhouse. And we were focusing on music. And I just wasn't as interested in learning about the technical aspects anymore. So I kind of did that. And then I just kind of drifted around.

I mean, I didn't have a lot of money. And so I was, you know, I didn't. Because you didn't finish school. I didn't finish no school. I ain't got no job. No, you know, so. But I, but I did. You know, I moved around, but I, you know, I got a job in a movie theater in Queen Anne.

I got a job at a health food store for a while. You know, I had like odd jobs, but really the thing that made me the most money was playing music because I was playing in a lot. I was playing in like, you know, four or five bands at a time, hauling my gear around on public bus system, you know, and getting to all these rehearsals and practicing and playing out. getting to play with musicians that I saw when I first moved to Seattle. It was like, wow, that's an amazing bass player. I hope to play with them someday.

And then suddenly, like, you know, three years later, I'm playing with that bass player. And that was amazing. And so there was a lot of music. It was always me doing art somehow. And when I went to Cornish, it was, I obviously, I didn't work when I was in Cornish because I was just going to school. But, you know, I was involved in the, you know, the student union. And we organized a march.

And, you know, I would try to bring the buildings. together because there were two buildings that we had to walk to and from, which was like a, I don't know, a 15, 20 minute walk. And so I would try to unify. I was always about unifying, socializing, making sure everybody was having a great time and then like involving myself in experimental pieces and so forth. So I've just always, I've just always had a, I don't know what it is. I just kind of am fascinated with fun, with just creating experiences that a lot of people externally

to me are having a great time with, but also. intrinsically to me are great. I personally believe that's a fascinating and truly good motivation. We play a little game here sometimes that's called What is Maim here or what is Jonathan here? And when I first listened to that story, I was like, I hear that he does not have enough anxiety to tell him that the world is going to crumble if he doesn't figure his life out. And then by the end of the story, I'm like, oh, there was a lot of forward motion in that you're playing in all these bands and you're seeing, it's not like stagnant by any means.

Well, I mean, I will say it wasn't like I was, I never had like fear of things working out. I mean, there were times when I, you know, I couldn't, I didn't know how I was going to make rent. You know, I didn't know how, you know, I made decisions that were very, you know, that did induce a lot of fear, you know, and some anxiety for sure. but I just, I always had that guy, that North, that North Star, you know, like there was always that. Because the thing is, like, once that happens, once you trust that, and it happens more than twice, it's the, you just know that it's a very high likelihood that things will work out. Okay, but see, this is, but that's not true for people like me. And I don't mean to speak for, see, he's made different. I actually think this is the most interesting part sort of for us is that juxtaposition.

between I don't know how things are going to work out. I'm not sure how I'm going to make rent, you know, digging into that state of fear, because it's true that if you have a North Star that helps anyone make decisions because you know how to prioritize, right? You're not in a constant cycle of uncertainty because you know what's guiding you. But I think most people either doubt their North Star don't have enough experience of that North Star working out or a clarity to align to it. there's a certain momentum that certain people's lives have. And I've known a lot of musicians in my day. And it was like, I'm just going to throw a bunch of CDs in my guitar case.

And I'm going to buy a ticket to Europe and see what happens. Like, there are people who do that. And we need people who do that. And then there's people like me who are like, I'll sit here and do the accounting. Like, I will do your budget. You know, like, I'll gather all your receipts and I'll make a spreadsheet. How many spreadsheets have you made in your life, Reggie? That's the real question.

A spreadsheet? I don't think I've made one. Yes. That is the North Star that people should aspire to. No spreadsheets. I remember where I was when I heard smells like teen spirit. Like I literally remember, you know, where I was. What was it like being in Seattle, especially as a musician, when that went down?

Like, just it was a very different time. Yeah. No, I mean, you know, that was the moment that everything, you know, went nuclear in Seattle for sure. It's like, you know, grunge had been, or that form of rock and roll had been around for a while since the late 80s, really. And when that song happened, I guess, you know, we were hearing about bands being, you know, getting popular and, you know, the people hearing about, like, who Allison Chains is and who Soundgarden is and who. but Nirvana was obviously getting big, and they got big pretty quick. The cool thing was, you know, when I was obviously growing up in the 80s, I was heavily influenced by the John Hughes movies. And the cool thing about Pretty and Pink was that she would go to thrift stores, and she would kind of alter her own clothing and create her own style, and she was given a really hard time about that.

But, of course, in the end, like, becomes, you know, the handsome dude or whatever, you know, becomes fascinated with her. But the point is... Which really is the goal of it. all females. Of course. You got to like appeal to the most straightest, cleanest, most symmetrical human possible. But, but like, but we were all my friends in high school, like, you know, especially when I first started getting into punk music, post-punk music, that type of stuff in junior high, all my friends were wearing like all the, all, we had like 50, 50 girls, guys in my friend

group and they were all like thrift store heroes, you know, they, right. Women were, wearing men's trousers and like and and and and I still to this day find that the most attractive thing in in in you know myself being heterosexual but like like you know having a huge array of friends from queer spectrum and so forth I still like any time I see a woman or someone who calls himself a woman and who so who feels that they are the embodiment of the soul of who they who they see themselves as then when they wear those fashions it doesn't matter I'm just like oh yes that is that is that is what I that's exactly why we do it because we want we want these this guy to be like I get you and then he's like but I'm not ready to come in and like four years

later you're like how about now and yeah yeah right right yeah that's exactly it no but I mean I just like I understand where you're coming from but it's just like for me like I was already there the point was like yeah I was already there I was I was already I was already I was already like, I liked that, like, dirty down in the dirt vibe already. And so when Grunge came out, we all just thought it was funny that, of course, it started to get popular, and Jay Cruz started to sell flannel and, like, predistressed jeans, you know, so you could instantly become grunge, you know? And we thought that that fucking sucked.

You know, that was really a bummer to us. But whatever. But it still holds true today. Like, all my friends now, it's like, they're still dressed in the way that they dress but it's very dirty. It's not like, it's not clean. It's not crisp. Here's a funny question, but we do focus on, you know, mental health and mental

wellness. Did you have, like, you seem like that kind of person who, like, things are pretty good. Like, have there been times in your life when you've not been able to summon that? Or do you just kind of, like, operate here? Oh, no, all the time. I mean, all the time. I mean, I feel there's a lot of great days, you know.

A lot of it, I realize, comes from sometimes it's body image because I've struggled with weight all my life. There's definitely that. And sometimes my social, my hyper-social stuff comes from a compensation to that, you know, like the acceptance, you know, like, oh, well, even though I'm chubby kid, like, you still like me. You know, that kind of a vibe. I have, but I mean, obviously, like, I have good sense of people generally, and I can tell, you know, when people are. being groovy to me or not. But there's that. And then there's just the other, the other aspect that really gets me down is not being able to create as much as I want to create. When there's a, when there's a bottleneck of I have so much that I'd like to do, but I can't do it all. And I don't.

And so that, that really gets me depressed. And that's like, especially in the last, probably like four years, four or five years, it's kind of increased because even though I have exposure from the late late show and I get to meet awesome people like you. And it's like, you know, there's a business around creativity. Sure. And I can't, it doesn't flow as easily as it did when I was living in New York, you know, doing invite them up in the Lower East Side, Eugene Murman and Bobby Tisdale and a bunch of friends who get together and make dumbass videos like all day long and just put them online.

Because they have fun. There's no fun in Los Angeles. Jonathan says this sometimes. There are moments of it. There are breaks in the cloud where like, oh, Oh, shit. Whoa, yeah, we're doing it. This is awesome.

This party was great. This performance was great. Oh, I had a whole week of seeing the best local bands and some cool performance art. But it's, yeah, it just seems like that goes away very quickly, like that feeling. It doesn't last. And then there's long periods of where it's not happening. And then you have to find it in it. So I don't know.

It's weird. That's really what I get down. And that and like just to being disappointed in humanity. just like, you know, in our decisions, our leaders and things like that. And where I'm like, guys, it's just so simple. Everyone could be really rocking and rolling and having a great time. Why do you guys keep fucking around the same shit over and over again? So those are the things that I get probably the most depressed about.

I actually had this thought yesterday. I'm in the middle of a work thing that's like very messy. And it involves me really like asserting a lot of myself and also feeling a lot of a lot of pride over places where I am trying to do what I think is like for the greatest good, you know, meaning for the most people involved, the greatest good. And I had this terrible thought yesterday, like, do I just do nice things so people will like me? I had this very strange thought of like, not that I even like kind of need that appreciation, but it just kind of like when you said that, and for you, it might come from, you know, a body image place.

For me, it just comes from an image place, like just, you know, of identity. But it was just so, so interesting that you brought that up because I was literally just thinking, like, how do I even know? How do I, like, is everything just a large social manipulation? Meaning that all of us do. You know, not even in a, in a bad way. You know, the Dan Byrne quote is, if you give someone a present, is it just to make them happy or just to keep them at bay? And like that, I just had this moment. moment yesterday and I'm like, how did I get 46 years old and I'm not sure why I feel like doing nice things?

Anyway, just thinking about that. No, I know. I hear that. Well, I mean, you know, it goes back to kind of my theory about, you know, evil people and why and how I say like, you know, dictators and people of that sort are doing it wrong. They're being evil in the wrong way because if they were really smart, they're really smart. really wanted to be very selfish, they would improve the lives of the community around them, because then they would not only have control of the resources or access to the resources,

but they'd also have the goodwill, the free goodwill of people around them. And that's true selfishness. But I mean, that's the book you should write, how to be a good dictator. Yeah, yeah, how to be a good dictator. Yeah, it's like, because the other way, the other shit doesn't make any sense. Why would you want to, like, do all this, like, short-term shit and then have people hate you? it sucks. But anyways, yeah, I mean, I think about that all the time. Of course, why I brought that up is because I think that sometimes when you're nice, it's because you're projecting how you'd want, you want the reflection come back at you with, you know. So there is kind of a little bit of a self-service there. But I think that if everyone's doing that, generally it kind of amplifies and creates its own, a unified version of that. That's still just as, you know, rather than the selfless, I'm giving it. myself selflessly, which is beautiful but also unsustainable.

The title of my memoir, Beautiful but Unsustainable. That's a very good title. Here's a question, and this might sound strange, and it could just be just that it's an odd day and I'm just feeling strange. There's something about you that makes me want my teenagers to get to know about you and be like you. there's something like that feels very you feel you seem very comfortable even if you're not like you're very like you seem very comfortable in a way that like I know I'm not like I don't portray that

you know for my kids I portray a lot of things but there's something so neat about that and I I don't I don't think you talk a lot about your personal life but like I'm kind of curious like what what are you like as a partner like do you like relationships do you like kind of you know, do you kind of, does that give and take sort of work for you emotionally? I'm just kind of curious. Like, yeah. Yeah. That's kind of like, that's like my weakest area is relationships, really. Because I feel like I've been, I'm so interested in like new realities and like, you know, experiencing as many different points of view as possible and so forth that I think I, and this is something that I've recently kind of come into realization with and am, you know, actively working on.

But in the past, I think I had this tendency of romanticizing the idea of a relationship. And then, you know, loving the honeymoon period, but then not really becoming vulnerable to enough, you know, to actually meld with someone, not in a codependent way, but just like to allow each other's access to vulnerabilities and feeling safe within that and then developing a relationship from there from that space i just never really experienced that it was always like well i don't know if she liked me i'm kind of chubby guy you know i don't know you know and then and then like oh she likes me oh it's crazy she's like whatever but uh and i think that that's kind of how i operated from so then so then as the relationship progresses i become uh i'm not as invested and then i start to get disgruntled and then

they start to get disgruntled. And then it just kind of fades. It just fades away. It falls apart. And, and, you know, and it's, it's been that way for many, many, you know, relationships. To the point at which I think there was someone I was dating once and she said, you, you've, you frustrated a lot, a lot of women haven't you? I was like, I was like, yes. Without any hesitation, I was like, yes, yes, I have.

And I know it. And I know it. I hate it. And that's why, that's why, you know. That's why I don't want to do that shit anymore. You know, that's why, like, I've been working on that. But it's very difficult to find someone who, well, it's difficult to have, like, a standard, you know, and by that, I don't mean, like, it doesn't have to be physical. It's, it's all the stuff, right?

It's like an intellectual appreciation or a similar sense of adventure, you know, whatever it is. But just enough of the core operating principles that match with my own that I'm like, you know, what, fuck it. Let's go for it. You know, like, I haven't, I haven't gotten there. And it's something that, you know, it hasn't happened. I'm on the lookout for it. But I'm also trying not to revert to old patterns and just like, oh, this person's really, really cute.

So that's enough, you know, you know what I mean? And not to say that I'm choosing people just because they're cute. I mean, there's all manner of things that I find attractive about them. But it's like, it's that vulnerability thing. It's the trust thing. That's the thing that I kind of lack in having an adventurous. Like, I want to experience everything vibe where someone's just like, I'm tired of like going to this and then going to that and going to, you know,

it's hard to find people who are just like chill enough to be like, I'm doing my thing and I'm going to give you space to do your thing. And then me going like, I'm going to give you all the space you want to do your thing. And we're going to hang out. And we're going to love the fact that we're both. protecting each other's solitude, you know? Well, and also there's definitely, I mean, first of all, I think, I mean, I think so many people can relate to that. But again, like, the way you articulated it, like, that feels really, really

right on. And I, I also think, you know, as we get older, it, in, of course it gets harder, like, that's so banal to say. But the notion of like, oh, now that I know more about myself, there's more to protect because when you're young, it just feels kind of like, oh, this feeling is what it's supposed to be. And that's going to like, that's like, and then everything's going to be fine.

But then also like, you know, for those of us who did that when we were younger and like I've been, you know, divorced 10 years, it's like there's a whole set of, oh, now I'm an adult getting to know who I am. And like, I really don't want to, whatever it is, go out. every night or hang out at home, like, or, you know, whatever it is, it's very, very interesting

the way you articulated it, though. Jonathan and I are also, we're, Jonathan's a futurist. That's like a thing. He's a futurist. And yeah, I think the two of you would have a lovely time, but at least for the... You've never seen Mayam's eyes glaze over more than you say in five years from now. I can't. I cannot. But, um, I know, um, I know. that you are a, you're a person that you also think very deeply. So in addition to kind of like, you know, all the incredible art and creativity and things, you also like you're a person with theories. Like I have theories too. I've got like, I keep my list. But I'm going to let that too. Jonathan, ask him some things. Well, I think we probably both agree on the dangers and evils of social

media and the extraction, attention extraction economy. So we don't need to do a deep dive there. Are there any other sort of ways in which you're sort of optimistic about technology helping to advance our understanding of ourselves and make us, you know, have a better existence? Well, I mean, I mean, I, you know, it's a funny thing. I'm supposed to talk or I am going to talk at the hammer about NFTs and things of that nature. I'm really going to use it for an hour and I'm really going to use it as an opportunity to kind of talk about the future, like technology and its usefulness in the future. For me, I want to get to, I want to get to the head of the table, or at least at the, not the head of table, but at the table with people who are making these technological decisions because I'm tired of, I'm just tired of, you know, large corporations, you know, pinning down, buying up every, you know, challenger, every idea, and then doing nothing with it or turning into a piece of crap.

I want to see technology or the internet used for the way that it's supposed to be used, which is a, it's supposed to be a repository for all of human knowledge and the ability to research that knowledge without having to, you know, be tracked or be advertised to, and then also to be able to share things directly with one another without the use of a platform to do it, to do it with. And, you know, so I see the future as, as distributed and more fair to individuals electronically. And also, I want, I want gadgets to be more responsible. I want, you know, I want, I mean, all the that's what I said. I did this Microsoft gig once and I was speaking in front of 10,000 engineers and it was in Las Vegas and they had those big jumbo-jumbochron screens or whatever.

And I just told them, I was like, there is, there is no such thing as scarcity. Certain things you could point to, platinum, things like that. But, but in general, there is no such thing as scarcity and there is no problem that we have socially or technologically that is occurring right now that cannot be solved. and made fair for everybody. It's just the willingness of those people who have created artificial scarcity to drive up prices of whatever they're invested in in order to just have power. And they don't even know why they've won.

They don't even know why they're doing it. They're just like going to runaway train. So if anything, I just want technology to be more responsible. I want it to be closed looped. I want it to be environmental. I want so much that we could accomplish that wouldn't change the lives of people. people who love luxury, you know, like, people are like, I'm going to lose my yacht if I turn green. It's like, no, you can still have your stupid yacht, but it's just a, it's a green yacht, right?

It's like, and you'll feel good that it, that it actually is good for the planet, and you'll feel good that people don't think of you as a total asshole. And, and you'll feel, and you'll feel good that you still got your yacht. So, I mean, everybody wins. There's a way for everybody to win. And so for me, that's what I'm looking for. That's why I try to, you know, I get in there with VR or AR or product design or car design or fuel source design or sourcing materials for things and so forth. Manufacturing processes, having people actually be concerned about those things, the average consumer to be concerned about that, those things in demand. And the incentive structure is just an enormous part of it. What are the incentives and how are we driving our decision making? And are we

even thinking about that versus just racing towards bottom line? So I think throughout the supply chain, we're taking more of those considerations into account and the life cycles of products and having the cost of those really factored into the decisions that are being made and having the end cost be a larger representation of the entire life cycle of the product. I actually think personally one of the largest risks right now is in the psychographic profiling that's happening across all of our quote unquote free products and how it's just irresponsible, in my opinion, to have that amount of information, not because I think it's used against us, which I believe it is used against us, but it's more that that information

could be so valuable in helping individuals. Yes. And reflecting back to us, things that we don't know about ourselves. My work focuses a lot on shifting that data paradigm in the ownership and looking at how we can use the tools that are available to us to help us all know ourselves better. Yeah, agreed. That's why I love biometrics. I love the data. I think it should all be helpful to us. And I think that we should have that data available to ourselves and it's not sent anywhere.

We control where it's sent, how it's shared, so forth. I think that it's like, like I say, like the future could be incredible for us. We have amazing technology and that creates more insightful, more educational. more educated people, more self-understanding is like, that's the way, man. You know, like more people going like, oh, shit, it's actually simpler than I thought. You know, like life, it's actually simpler. It's not more complex. The complexity is the illusion because that stimulates economic growth.

But like, there's no reason why we shouldn't all be concerned about our health. There's no reason why, you know, to varying levels, you don't have to be like a champion. But like to have a base understanding of like, oh, I'm not going to do that because that's just something I don't need to do and I'm going to appreciate it 20 years from now, whatever it is. But yeah, I agree 100%. We talk a lot on the podcast about that. There's a user manual for our well-being and for our bodies and our mental well-being. And most of us don't really have the blueprints or even the cliff notes to that.

So on one end, there's like, I'm going to research everything and understand neutropics, which is amazing. And I'm totally into it. And the other hand, it's like, let's just know about going to sleep at generally the same time and waking up because that sends signals to our body to function properly. Yes, 100%. Yeah, common sense shit that gets lost in the shuffle. You know, one of the things that I think is also really, you know,

kind of special about the way your brain works is that you've had, you know, kind of transcendental experiences with, you know, as you've talked about, with the assistance of psychedelics and things. But it really seems to then become a part of your consciousness when not under the influence. which I think is really interesting as it's, you know, we try and be careful. We have a lot of young people listening and, you know, I don't like to kind of glamorize the use of really any kind of recreational drug, including alcohol. You know, I just, I think it's something that, you know, has a lot of boundaries and spaces and places that it's not me and Jonathan's, you know, kind of fortate to deal with. But I wonder if you could speak a little bit about, you know, kind of what you've brought down from the mountain, as it were.

And, you know, while the experiences of psychedelics are like, they're fantastic and, you know, and they're colorful and complicated and amazing, I'm actually just kind of interested how you, how you incorporate that into sort of your everyday, you know, life. Well, first of all, I think of them as tools and they are opportunities to gain self-understanding. And so that's kind of thankfully since, you know, when I was a teenager, you know, definitely I'm maybe I was doing it a little bit too young, but it happened when it happened. But, you know, when we were young, I am glad to know that my friends were actually pretty mindful about it, you know, even though we were a bunch of punks and like, whatever, lighting fires and caves and stuff. But we were, we definitely had a camaraderie and we would ask ourselves questions about

existence and things of that nature. So I think I became fascinated in the ability to peer beyond the usual structures and perceptions of our current human civilization. And then graduating, you know, and then graduating, you know, being an adult and trying LSD and trying mushrooms and so forth, I think the things that I gained, the insight that I gained the most from was that reality is perception. And perception, there's also a co-projection happening. There's a way that you project what you want to see in reality.

And reality is also a bunch of information that you're. sensory organs are collating into the idea of an experience. So, but with that knowledge, you kind of realize, oh, anything can be anything at any given time. And I think that that's something that I felt naturally. I don't think that's something you get from drugs. You could have it from doing yoga. You could have a near-death experience.

You could just, whatever, just be around the right people. It doesn't, it's, doesn't, it's not drug dependent. But what I have, what's reinforced, what has been reinforced from those experiences for me is, is the idea that I've always thought about, which is like, oh, you can make anything into anything. And it's the way that people survive in, you know, in captivity. It's the way that people survive under, like, terrible circumstances where we're kind of like, oh, that sucks to be you or whatever.

They're like, yeah, it's not ideal, but I figured out a way to deal with it because I can adjust my perception, my association to the experience. And so I think that's the thing. So, you know, like in the airplane movie, one of my favorite movies, I think it's the, the guy is the air traffic controller or something like that, and they hand him a paper. And they're like, what can you make of this?

He's like, well, I can make a hat, a erodech, a teradactyl. And that type of silliness, that ability to someone's like, you're this. And it's like, I am. And I'm also not that, you know, like that ability to change the context and to not say like, oh, it is this way. Someone told me it was this way. That's the way it is. or we think of things this way and that's the way it is. Those are the things that can immobilize people

and they're not given a clue. They're not giving that insight that like, oh, no, you can do whatever you want. As long as you're not hurting other people, you can configure the way that you relate to the world. And if you want to live in a better place, then start living that way. And I think that psychedelics, again, for me,

when I'm shown these things, whether it's mushrooms or LSD or Academy, or even ecstasy. The thing that I'm always thinking about is like, what is this experience? And what am I learning from this? What new perspectives am I learning from this? And I don't believe that drugs are external.

I believe that they are revealing things about yourself that you already have. That just puts you in a state where you're more readily accepting of new aspects of yourself. And again, it can be through anything. You could be a surfer and never have had a drop of anything, but, you know, your understanding of your relationship between the universe and the forces of chaos and organization are deep, you know.

So I think that that's kind of what I bring. I bring into it like, you know what? Take a second before you react, try to create a buffer of processing time before you react to something in order to better respond to something. And when you see it and other people have patience with them. And if you see them reacting to you, you can also, a keto it. You know, you can, you can deescalate it. You can change it into something else. You can reflect something back to them instead of participating in the drama. So I've learned a lot, you know, those are the things that I've kind of arrived at that I try to practice every day

from it. That's, I mean, that's an unbelievable set of things. Like, I want that on a t-shirt. I mean, it's such a beautiful summary because it encompasses so many pieces of learning and synthesized so succinctly. I mean, and just to reiterate an act, that it doesn't necessarily have to be substance. It isn't that the substances is external to us. I mean, I have an experience where I play basketball. And when I try too hard, I don't play well. Like there is a flow state that is the right amount of force

to be at the right place at the right time. And you can't think your way into that space. You have to feel your way into it. And it makes it so that, you know, things just operate more smoothly. Now, that is only one little part of what you talked about, but just to say that there are many paths that lead us to this type of understanding. Agreed. Yeah. You know, I like to caveat this kind of conversation with, you know, the kind of, you know, general,

just sort of human disclaimer that there are people for whom the things that happen under the influence are stronger than the lessons that they can take from it. And the cycle, you know, that the cycle of escape, you know, and the cycle of kind of that, you know, that reward system, you know, can be stronger. So I guess I'm just sort of, you know, curious. Is there, you know, is there anything you kind of feel about you or about the way you've approached your lifestyle or, you know, the partying you did or the fun that you had? Is there anything? I'm not saying that you can, that one can control addiction. I do believe there's a lot of factors that are in many cases, not in our control. But I wonder if, if you have

just kind of like any insight or if, you know, you've known someone for whom you were able to observe like, oh, wow, that person is definitely having a different kind of, you know, repeat performance experience with something. Yeah, I'm just sort of curious. And it doesn't need to be a cautionary tale. It's just, you know, I do believe some people don't have the gene. And I say that, you know, sort of kind of tongue and cheek, because I don't believe it's sort of like, you don't get like the addiction gene. It's a, it's a conglomeration of ways that we choose to cope. But I'm just curious. Well, yeah, I mean, I've known a lot of people who've struggled with you know, all kinds of addictions, whether it's nail-biting, you know, to heroin.

But these, these cycles, you know, they're in, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're ruts that form in the brain, you know, that as far as we, we understand. And we, it's like a, it's a parasite, really, right? It's like, it's like, you have, here's your mind. And then there's like a partition that happens. And then the partition kind of gains its own personality and sentience, and then it starts dictating what it needs in order to grow. And so it's, you know, it's like this thing you're turning, it's on the back of your head, no matter how fast you turn, you can't see it. So some people, that voice becomes so loud, and they need that fuel, whatever it is,

whatever the addiction is, they need to feed it. And to gain awareness, to zoom out far enough to be able to see the fragmentation and to see what that is and to realize that it is still yourself and that there needs to be a way to reintegrate, to break it down and reintegrate. That's a really tall order for some people because even if they have the knowledge of it, they still have great difficulty breaking away from that gravity well. You know, and then that comes down to the people in their lives, people that don't give up on them, you know, people that reflect the good nature aspects of themselves and recognize that they have to be careful around this person. You can't just like throw things at them and just say like,

you know, I'll just do this or do that or do this. Like there needs to be a lot of nurturing going on and help and on all of these things. I will say that I've had some friends, I've had many friends who've actually gotten themselves out of addiction. You know, I had two friends, you know, one of their friends did not make it. They got they got hooked on heroin and they just didn't make it. In Seattle in the 90s, we lost a lot of people. Oh yeah. Yeah. And, but I have, you know, two friends now that are an amazing band. They lost their bandmate a while ago. But they, they got sober in a way that, and I don't mean to belittle the process,

whether it's narcotics anonymous or alcoholics. The 12-step programs, yeah. I'm not, I'm not belittling that at all. But what I, and this sounds like a weird thing for me to be stoked about for them, but they kicked heroin, they kicked alcohol, but they still smoke wheat. and and why I think that that's cool, not cool, but I think it's just great because they've, they've created their own sense of sobriety and they're doing something that that really has such a smaller consequence, but they're still allowing themselves, you know, without relapsing.

Right. Well, and this is the thing. And we don't, you know, we don't support any particular way of anyone, I mean, honestly, doing anything. but I do tend to be a stickler on nomenclature, you know, and so that's the thing. It's like, for me, when I think of, you know, sobriety, like, to me, it's just kind of like definitional. It's like, I'm a vegan. Do I eat cheese? No.

Do I eat eggs? No. Like, when I meet people who are like, I'm vegan, but I eat fish, then you're not a vegan. You're a person who eats fish and doesn't eat dairy or eggs. Like, I just, you know, so for me, I'm just a stickler on nomenclature. And also, for me, who has sat down. in a lot of rooms and have a lot of people close to me who sit in a lot of rooms. Yeah, we,

there's a reason that, you know, there's a reason that there's that structure and there's a reason that there's that concept. And, but yes, there are a lot of, a lot of ways. Also, like, you know, there's so much in what you said, you know, just about kind of your experiences that really is kind of like, what are you learning from what you do? What are you learning from the fun things? What are you learning from the hard things? Like, what lesson, I mean, it's true. Like, what are you bringing down, you know, from the mountain after you've had whatever experience it is that was singularly yours? And I think that's, it's incredibly valuable. I've just, yeah.

Well, yeah. I mean, I think really it comes down to, the important thing to know is there is no right, absolute right way to do something. And in acknowledging that, you have a higher percentage of success. Because if you're not doing, if you're like, oh, I slipped up on this thing. that's definitely supposed to be this, now I'm fucked. And it actually goes, it actually does the opposite. So, you know, it's important to have compassion and to realize that there are multiple ways to arrive at something.

It's kind of like when you see someone, you know, like I saw like a woman that was in a race, this young woman, I think she was like 14 or something like that. She started a race. She lost her shoe and like got her shoe, put the shoe on and then won the race. And to me, it's about when you see those types of moments, it's people who get into this this problem solving state. It's not a crisis state. It's a solution state.

And really, it's encouraging people to become involved in a solution state. It's like great improvisers. You know, how are you able to improvise? It's like, well, how are you able to have this conversation we're having right now? It's not a scripted conversation. Well, as a former jazz trumpet player who could not improvise, like, I would sit in jazz band and they'd give me my 64 measures and I would just stand there and cry. I couldn't do it.

And as an actor, I have a very, very painful, difficult time improvising. And it's true, but I am a very fluid speaker, so there's a hope. Well, I'll add one thing to that, just one little tiny thing. You're like, you're not a fluid speaker, Maya. No, no, no, no, you're wonderful. But I kind of realized when I was playing in orchestra and we had a jazz band, I realized that the end point, the intersection point is exactly the same thing. So whether it's something that's prepared and structured in advance,

that's learned and performed in the moment or whether it's something that's improvised that's made to sound like it's a structured thing that's played in the moment. The moment is really the thing where it's exactly the same shit. So whether you're an actor and I was the only girl, I saw tiny, the trail was so big it was like, my nose was funny.

I was, yeah. I wanted to play trombone, my arms were not long enough. True story. We also, we, that's right, I was like a little T-Rex trying to play the trombone. As a person who has an electric car and is extremely happy about it, especially as gas is like $98 million a gallon, you do a thing with Porsche electric race car? Oh, I went, I got, I own a Porsche Tycon, their electric car. You're in like a cute suit?

Like you're like a race car driver. Yeah, yeah. I went to Mallorca. Johnny Lieberman, who's one of the chief reviewers at Motor Trend, um, says, it up and, well, I mean, they asked him if I'd be interested and I was like, hell yeah, and he happened to be there. So, we all got to go to Mallorca and check out their new concept prototype electric race car, which is kind of amazing. It's amazing. It's just, I love that shit. It's like, you know, it's like, that's what I mean about getting at the table, you know,

being at the table with the people. I was talking to the engineer who designed it. You know, like, I'm just like sitting right next to this, dude, you know, talking about a car that only existed, It did not, only existed on paper a year ago. When I started being interested in an electric car, like there wasn't that many to choose from. And Jonathan was really into trucks at that time, like pickup trucks. And we were like, one day, maybe they'll be an electric pickup truck. And like, boom, a year later, like, take your pick.

So happy about it. I'm really happy about it because as someone who, I like trucks, but I only like trucks that ending around the early 90s. Because then they started looking like sneakers. Like fat, like fat. Obes sneakers. It looked just like pieces of crap. But like when you see like a 1979 Ford F-150, you're like, that's a truck.

That looks like a truck. That's when it was like that person's driving a truck. That's really funny. Gordon is ending next year, right? And as band leader, what happens? What do you do? Where do you go? I don't know.

I'm going to get ready to sell my Porsches. I mean, you know, I don't know. I have no idea. I really have no idea what's going to. going to happen. I have, you know, ideas for shows that I want to do and stuff like that. But, you know, as we all know, there's no guarantees there at all. So there's nothing anywhere. There's nothing guaranteed. Yeah, I don't know. I have no idea. It's kind of exciting. But I'm more, I think I'm more excited about it because I know that I can, I know that my range

of living, like my lifestyle capability can, I can downshift a few and I'll be okay. I like how you just said that. It's really been such a pleasure to talk to you. I mean, I just, I'd like to, well, I'd like to be your best friend. So we- You are. You both are. That was it. I did it. 100%. So easy. Is there anything else you'd like to share with all of your new friends, including your two new best friends?

Yes, of course. I mean, yeah, I have an app. It's called WhatsApp. This is what it looks like. And it's an app. It's on Android and iOS. And it's just like, you know, it's a work in progress. but I have like videos up there. I do live stream sometimes and, you know, special promotions. And there's a store you can buy merch, but also you can buy my old electronics on this, like an early Craigslist vibe. That's cool. And I just have, I have a project of Wahada.

You can, we'll be playing around touring different places, but spelled W-A-J-A-T-A. Yeah. So that's it. Awesome. This is really, really spectacular. Just, you're such an awesome person and it was really wonderful to have you on the breakdown. Yeah.

Likewise. I've had a blast. Thank you for having me. His level of improvisation is like otherworldly, right? Like he just knows exactly what to say, it seems like anyway. He knows exactly what to say at every moment. Put that man in a scanner because there's something very special about his brain. What I thought was interesting is this idea of a solution state, and I'm drawing like some comparisons.

It seems as though he lives in a solution state. state. You have to be able to respond so in the moment to whatever improvisational cue that you're getting or the opening that you're getting. And so like there's a level of presentness that is required to be able to have the wherewithal to respond. And like I think you and I are just constantly lost in our own brains and we have to like calm those down long enough to show up and be present. Whereas he has somehow quieted his brain. Like he doesn't have that level of static that surrounds us that we're constantly trying to simmer down.

I think there's a real clarity to him, which is, you know, and as a person who's both a scientist and an artist, you know, I think I'm allowed to say this. Like, he's almost scientific, like, in his artisticness. Like, he's incredibly, like, measured and methodical and thorough, even about, you know, his creative world. Like I think he's like a really, really fascinating synthesis. I'm so curious what his parents are like

because, you know, I mean, sure, sometimes totally like bland, you know, awesome, quiet people churn out like this like kind of child. But like I, the fact that he said his mom was feisty, you know, and, you know, kind of like put people in their place if they, you know, messed with him or his family.

Like there's, there's definitely something, you know, interesting there. And like I said, I really want, like, my kids to know who he is, you know. He has all these theories. And I wonder if his theories come to him that formulated. Like, I'm the type of person who, you know, verbally processes and, like, spits a bunch of things out. And then I find one nugget. And I've heard, you know, comedians, some comedians talk about their writing process.

And they're like, I just sit down and write. Or they say they sit down and write. And it's many pages. And then they take, like, one. sentence because they're just kind of mining for those nuggets. He just seems to just like drop fully for like really coherent and synthesized ideas. I'm like wondering if that happens through a thinking or a writing process for him. I mean, it sounds like there's a lot of thinking that goes on in there. And he also, he holds a lot of information in his head. And I think that's

probably true of a lot of jazz musicians and people who, you know, who can think in that. I mean, like he said, it's exactly the same thing as having written out music. Like that's an unbelievable, like that's a mind-blowing concept and I'm a musician, you know? Like, that's insane. Say what he said again? So what he said was that having music that's written out for 64 bars, it's essentially the same thing as being told to improvise for 64 bars. You have a set of notes. Well, he said the intersection is the same.

Right, right. I heard that as the transition into where. No. That's not what he said. No, what, I mean, when you, if you listen to the guitar soul, in Soltons of Swing, which is, I mean, one of my favorite kind of like pieces of music, right? Like, that is a crafted improvisational piece. The idea is not that the first time you go to solo on Sultons of Swing, that's what comes out. But the notion is when you are, when you are improvising,

and I can do it on piano, when you're improvising, you're taking all the notes that you know exist in this alphabet, and you are arranging them as if you wrote it, right? It's just, I mean, it's, anyway, it's not, you don't have an infinite number of choices. I mean, there are musicians who, you know, kind of make it as such. Anyway, it's just super, super cool to talk to. I mean, I could talk to, we could have him on every week to talk about a different thing. You don't like what I say what I'm about to say, which is that I think your hesitancy and sort of restriction around improvisation is totally overcomable and that you would actually, but for the crying at, first, you would have a really empowering and sort of freeing experience if you sort of got

into improvisation. Because I've seen you in moments of improvisation and like you have one of those wickedly fast motors that delivers really funny stuff. Like I saw you on a podcast and you had, you know, you had the paint paint peeling line. Do you remember what I'm talking about? Yeah, but that's very different than my life as a musician and my musical brain. It's very different. Also, comedic improv. No, so, well, yeah, and also memoir title, but for the crying, dot, dot, dot. No, for me, for me improv as a comedian is, it's very different and it's very, it's, I don't want to say effortless, but it doesn't, the reason that it comes fast is that I don't have to put a lot of effort into it. And I'm telling you, when I play music, it's different and it is about, you know, for me,

music is very visual. And, you know, it's why I love piano. I loved learning harp when I learned harp for the Big Bang Theory. because it's like the entire piano just laid out basically from your nose, you know, to as far as you can reach. Anyway, what a, what a fascinating, fascinating guy. That was really, really so much fun to talk to him. If people want to share their favorite Reggie Watts moment with us, hit us up on our Instagram at Biallic Breakdown. And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next. It's MyM. Biolix Breakdown.

She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. Fix you more And now she's going to break down