Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - [Revisit] Reframe Your Anxiety, with Glennon Doyle

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

We're revisiting another episode from the MBB vault! Glennon Doyle helps us break down the emotional toll it takes to share authentically, the evolution of love in her life, how to improve communication when both parts of a couple are in recovery, and the shame that comes from simply existing as a human. She also discusses the benefits of being an introvert and how she learned to reframe her anxiety. Enjoy the best moments of Glennon Doyle, and tune in on Tuesday for a brand new full episode of MAYIM BIALIK’S BREAKDOWN. Check out our full episode with Glennon Doyle: https://mayim.simplecast.com/episodes/personal-truth-transformation-and-managing-anxiety-with-glennon-doyle BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is love? Can that idea evolve? I mean, I think even the idea of what is a successful marriage. I can't tell you the amount of people that I know who have decided never to divorce and have been married for 30 years. And I look at their marriage and think, I don't know what success is, but that ain't it. Our culture would call a marriage from the outside. Our culture would look at a marriage where they don't know, or maybe they do even, that both individuals inside the marriage are, slowly dying inside and are full of contempt and have been slowly dying inside for decades. And they would look at that marriage and they would go, success. Sometimes I seriously think it's as simple as people just thinking a little bit harder. Instead of saying like what's successful marriage and what's not, just actually think about it

yourself. Is it just success if it lasts forever? It didn't work out. What if it worked out perfectly? Yeah. We have to take back the notion of relationships as a failure. We have to take back this idea of it didn't. work out. Like, none of that is relative, relevant to people who are working actively. Are you going

to break up with me in front of Glenn and Doyle? Look, we came together to start this podcast. We got to stick to Glenn and Doyle. I just don't understand what else there could be for us. And now we talk about how some love was our annuals. Oh, my God. You're joining in with him. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm totally on my inside. Bialik's breakdown, she's going to break it down for you. Because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. It's a breakdown.

She's going to break it down. Hi, I'm I'm Bialik. And I'm Jonathan Cohen. Welcome to our Thursday bite-sized edition of the breakdown. This week is a really good one. This episode is from the very, very early days of the podcast. So early. And my...

spent a lot of the time unsure if, how the episode was going to go. There were tears. There were heartbreak. There were jokes. Here's the thing. When we first started this podcast,

one of my very close friends, Abby, was like, you have to have on Glennon Doyle. And I was like, I don't know who Glenn and Doyle is. And then I researched Glenn and Doyle. And I was like, oh my gosh,

it's a person that has a lot in common with me. And she's kind of, she sounds like she's my people. So, like, I read her book. And I was so nervous to her on. We were new to kind of podcasting, but she was an incredible guest, such a generous shareer as she is known to be, but she specifically talked about, I mean, all the things that I am anxious about, she talked about, she talked about what it's like to be an authentic person to share so much

of yourself, how love evolved in her life, like she was a very observant Christian wife, and then she had a big change of life, and now she's got a different life. Anyway, she talks about being an introvert, trying to help me be comfortable in my introvertedness. What else, Jonathan? She talks about commercialism and like how products are sold to people, which, you know, you may think that's not so interesting, but the way that she describes it is both hilarious. She's one skin cream away from Nirvana as how she puts it, which is one of my favorite quotes that she has in this episode. I mean, she's just an amazing human being and it's so funny. Enjoy the best moments of Glenn and Doyle

and make sure to tune in Tuesday for a brand new full episode of Miami-Mialx Breakdown. Break it down. You know, I have a friend who when she posts pictures of herself on the internet, people tell her, like if she posts them in a bathing suit, people will respond to her by saying, you're so brave.

And she's like, that's not what you want to hear. The implications of that are so aggressive, right? Right? Like it's framed as a compliment, but what it reveals about what that person believes about how people should be is pretty intense, right? Because what you're saying is, oh, you're not supposed to look like that. So just by posting that, you have broken barrier, right? So that's kind of how I feel when people ask me why what I, you know, consider it brave to talk about just like being a fully human. being. Like I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I feel like somebody who just posted a picture of their, of their, of their plain old human body and everyone's like, holy shit, like, that's so brave. And I'm like,

no, no, this is just like, who I am. And also, p.S., this is also how you are, jackass. Like, how I feel is like, all I'm doing is talking about what it's actually like to be a human being. And I'm not pretending to be a different way. And for some reason that, that's, you know, that people consider that very brave, which to me just says we have a lot of shame issues about being a human being. I don't know what it is that I'm sharing that is so shocking. A person who's raised as a woman in this culture who had an eating disorder and still does. Well, how the hell could that have happened in this culture?

That is shocking. How could a little girl develop an eating disorder growing up in America? Like, to me, it feels so freaking obvious that people who don't understand that are confusing to me. Like, I feel like they're just not paying any attention, right? Or, oh, I'm a human being who developed addictions over time. Like, oh, my God, imagine that, wanting to numb yourself from the freaking human experience, which, by the way, is ridiculous. Being a human being is ridiculously hard.

Or, like, oh, my God, I'm a human being who, whose sexuality has like grown and changed and evolved and I really don't know why more people don't do it. The freedom that it gives you is it just makes you feel less afraid. When somebody's writing a New Yorker profile about me, I'm like, have that it. I know for a fact you're not going to find any shit I didn't already say. There's no secrets anymore, which there's just a, you don't have to be a person with a public platform to feel what it would, the possible power of not having anything you're afraid of people finding out about you. Well, I think it's all the patriarchy.

It's also just living in a consumer culture, I think. It's consumerism. It's this idea that everything we're looking at, you know, what is it? Like 98% of freaking messages we get every single day from someone trying to sell us something, right? And the way things are sold to us is here is a person who, has no problems, right? And if you want to be like this person who has no problems, you have to buy this shit. I mean, consumer culture is like the mafia, right? It shows up at your door and it's like, if you don't have, you didn't have a problem a second ago, but now you do, but the good news is,

we can solve it. And you're like, crap, what just happened? That was fine. I think it was fine. I didn't even know I needed those countertops. People buy more who feel less than, right? I mean, I do it all the time. It's the idea that we think if we're admired, we will be liked and we will have connection. Like, we don't understand that there's a difference between admiration and love, right? So we'll just, like, try to get admired, not knowing that that, what we really want is connection. And admiration actually separates us from connection because people think, oh, she's cool,

but I'm different than her, right? As opposed to real connection, which can only be like, I'm showing you my real self. You're showing me your real self. There might not be any admiration left. I think that there are some benefits. to the kind of severe introvert that I am. I have always been a stay-homer, a thinker, a reader of things. I spend a lot of time.

I think of it as like a gift I can offer to the world. Like while I, you go out and you have your real jobs. My job is to stay home and think so hard that I'm going to give you this sentence that's going to help make things. It's going to make sense. It's going to make your brain make more sense. That's what I can do. So I think being someone who has been a serious, dedicated, almost obsessive reader since I was six years old,

I think being an introvert, being someone who's constant, I think being someone who's in a same gender marriage, I'm sorry, but like all we do is talk. I have a high level of anxiety about everything. I have had a lot of time where I've tried to reframe it completely because, you know, nobody knows really what it is. What is it? I don't know. Part science, part spiritual, part personality. It's a big mix of things. I've had times where I've reframed it. I said, it's my fire. It's not anxiety. It's my fire. There has been a part of me since I was 10 and started therapy that was in those offices where they would tell me that I was this or I was that and I'd be like, hmm, we'll see.

Like, I just act, are I, am I anxious or are you just not paying attention? I think I might just be paying attention closely. I do think that maybe it's this concept we have of growing up, like when I grow up, that we think we're going to hit milestones, really understand that we're just going to be stuck with ourselves the whole way through. It's like how much of our angst is just that we're not experiencing what we thought it was supposed to be and like the delta between those two things, right? What I would love for my kids to have is less of a delta between any idea of how it's supposed to be because they're dealing with

who I actually am, which I think will maybe make it easier for them to deal with who they actually are. Totally. I mean, that's what I've found. What is love? Can we, can that idea evolve? I mean, I think even the idea of what is a successful marriage. I can't tell you the amount of people that I know who have decided never to divorce and have been married for 30 years. And I look at their marriage and think, I don't know what success is, but that ain't it. Our culture would call a marriage from the outside. Our culture would look at a marriage where they don't know, or maybe they do even,

that both individuals inside the marriage are slowly dying inside and are full of contempt and have been solely dying inside for decades. And they would look at that marriage and they would go, success. I remember doing one of my first interviews after the whole divorce and someone saying, does it ever make you sad that after all of that, your marriage still failed? We have this amazing life now, right? First of all, he has girlfriends who actually want to make out with him now. Hot day, right?

We're co-parenting and sometimes that gets weird and sometimes it's amazing and sometimes it's like the kids are good. We met each other when we were both so effed up. Like, we knew I was effed up. We learned he was later. But anyway, once again, I was more open about it. Okay, we'll say that. But we ended that marriage so much freaking better and whaler and healthier than we started it.

We have these kick-ass kids. We have this pretty cool, imperfect but awesome life. Like, neither of us thinks our marriage was a failure in any way. Like raging success ended, but raging success, right? So it's not even just what love is, but like what are, we just, sometimes I seriously think it's as simple as people just thinking a little bit harder. Instead of saying, like, what's a successful marriage and what's not? Just actually think about it for yourself.

Is it just success if it lasts forever? It didn't work out. What if it worked out perfectly? Yeah. We have to take back the notion of relationships. as a failure. We have to take back this idea of it didn't work out. Like, none of that is relevant to people who are working actively.

Are you going to break up with me in front of Glenn and Doyle? Look, we came together to start this podcast. Does it? We got to stick to Glenn and Doyle. I just don't understand what else there could be for us. And now we talk about how some love was our annuals. Oh, my God. Our perennial.

You're joining in with him. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm totally on my own side. Forever. I remember a lack of anxiety during the time that I was falling in love with Abby. And what I think is interesting is it was the most out of control time of my life. I had no more, no more reasons for anxiety than I had at that time. My anxiety usually manifests as a desire to control everything, just every little and people

and like it's almost like I get like witchily witchy in like how I'm trying to move people and control people and and and that point I think it was because it was so obvious that there was nothing that I could control that it was a relief it just felt like one time in my life where I was like oh I guess we'll see how these chips fall because I have this feeling that the reason that the world is spinning and my family's not dying and my career is because I am controlling all of it. If something happens, I am convinced that it was my concern, worry, sweat, insomnia. I earned that thing going well for us because I worried us into that good outcome. I understand intellectually that that is not the case, okay?

It's just that I don't really understand it on someone. My NBi Alex breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine, drink more water. There's no real data, there's no game plan. This has happened to me many, many times, especially on the perimenopause journey.

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Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just $199. But for a limited time, our listeners get an additional $20 off with the code break. Head to superpower.com. Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention Miami-Biotics Breakdown to help support the show. But that was the one time where I felt like the world really freaking surprised me, where I felt like I wasn't witching any of it up.

I didn't arrange that. I didn't control it. falling in love with a freaking woman in the middle of my life, falling in love at all, like, really for the first time? It was such a surprise from the universe that for a good long while afterwards, I was just like, okay, I'm just going to trust that something's happening here that I don't understand. I have to not indulge or not listen to my anxiety a good amount to or not be controlled or not try to, you know, my kid. And he said, I would change how my mom, how you have to like make every environment

so exactly right for you. Right? Like if we're at a restaurant, someone's talking too loud or someone's like, oh, like it's, that's the kind of anxiety that is contagious. I grew up raised by a man who I believe had undiagnosed. And so it came out as just being extremely controlling of every environment, right? So I learned to be on eggshells all the time. I learned to walk into rooms and scan for like, is that person going to be a problem?

Are those people going to be a problem? Are those people's voice? Are those, is that person going to cuss? Is that like every, just to be such a high self-monitor, hypervigilant is Abby and I can walk into a room and walk out. And I have had a completely different experience. she has. Like just, I will explain it as having gone through a battle, you know, and she's just like, what? We both have food issues actually, but we have opposite ones. So what that looks like in

real life is that she will be more of an indulger and I'm more of a restrictor. And so what she does to feel safe is the opposite of what makes me feel safe. And there's all kinds of triggering, like, like, you know, it just, you know, why can't you, why do you want? A sip of my milkshake. Why can't you order your own damn milkshake? And then this whole situation is just about milkshakes. But it's not about milkshakes. It's because I actually can't order my own freaking milkshake.

And like to her, she's the last of seven kids. There's so much about Abby and how big she lives and how much room she gives herself. And now it's the stuff that holds my stuff up, like a mirror, right? Like I want to be able to eat like she eats. and indulge like she indulges. And at the same time, those are the very things that are rubbing up on each other. Curiosity is super helpful.

Like, we are able to look at ourselves and it's not even personal anymore. We're just talking about our issues as if they're not personal. That's it. If people were really smart, when they were falling in love, they would make a list of the things

they're falling in love with and make sure they can deal with the opposite of that shit later inside of themselves because that's what happens. It goes from like, she's so free to like, why she's so free? Why the hell is she so free? Why does she take up so much space? Yeah.

I live for the moment of being done. Whether it's like a podcast is done or like the thing, the one thing I have to do, if it's making a freakie, do I have to order pizza tonight? I cannot wait until that phone call is done. Like I cannot wait till the end of the day. I live for the moment of the couch. That's it. The other day somebody was talking to me about the fear of death. And I was like, you know what?

Maybe I should stop being afraid of this. Like, I live to be done with things. Like, that's actually the ultimate couch Netflix moment. It's the final rest. My obsession is, when can we be done? Like, I don't think that I want to be done. I don't think so. But I don't want to have to do anything.

I think finding the balance between, like, feeling like you're, you're, doing yourself justice. Like you are showing up, you're doing what you were meant to do. Thank you so much, literally for, for gracing us with your presence and your awesomeness. And like, I'm, if I had known it would go like this, I would have been less nervous, but that's not how life worked. She worried her way into this good outcome. Look, I worried my way into the perfect interview. Glad I could help you guys. I'm glad I fixed your anxiety, Maya. Thank you for joining us for this little bite size episode. of Myambialy's Breakdown.

If you like what you hear, rate, review, subscribe. Visit us on Instagram at Beallic Breakdown. And make sure to tune in on Tuesday for a new full episode of Myambialx Breakdown from our bite-sized breakdown to the one we hope you never have.

We'll see you next time. It's Myambialics Breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fiction. And now she's going to break down. It's a breakdown.