Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Summer Edition - Best Of Mayim and Jonathan

Episode Date: July 26, 2022

Join us for another Summer Edition of Mayim Bialik’s Breakdown! This week we’re scouring the archives to bring you the best of Mayim and Jonathan, from their infamous trash talks and interpretations of what the other is saying, to their unique insights about mental health topics like the science behind gratitude, the relationship between anxiety and technology, and tips for broaching mental health topics within your family. Mayim breaks down some of our most intriguing topics covered here at MBB, such as body dysmorphia, narcissistic personality disorder, somatic reactions, the balance between science and religion, and the neuroscience behind coping mechanisms. Jonathan considers how advances in technology may impact hunger signals, and details his experience with a significant recurring dream. BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, I'm Myambiolic and welcome to our summer breakdown. It's Myambiolic's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. Amazon Pharmacy presents painful thoughts. I read somewhere that the average American spends 13 hours a year waiting in pharmacies for prescriptions. Clearly, I am above average. I thought being above average would feel better.

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Try their original 12-gram protein bar, the nut butter, and oat bar, or, minis. RXBarr, the proud sponsor of no BS. Use code RXBarr on RXBar.com for 25% off, subject to full terms and conditions and to change. Valid until September 30, 2025, and may not be combined with other offers. See RXBar.com for full details and limitations. This summer's been a little bit different. We're doing some traveling. We're having some fun. So we don't want to leave you hanging without any MBB content, but let's say hello to Jonathan, the person who, you know, never want to leave hanging. Jonathan, hello. Hello. Happy summer. Happy summer. I have a funny summer story to tell as we get into our unusual formats, our fun and loose formats for the summer. I have a

shelving unit in my bathroom that holds all of my essential oils and a lot of my pretty things, and it has little glass containers. This shelving unit is hung by a professional human as I was literally turning to walk out the door to go to the airport, my backpack hit the shelving unit, and the whole thing came crashing to the floor. So the patchuli broke. So the bathroom smelled like Venice Beach. And we had to literally go to catch a plane to the Yucatan Peninsula. Another thing I have a collection of is all of the medications that I've been given over the years for all the things they have tried to treat me for. Every time a medication hasn't worked, I save a few,

and I keep them as a reminder of basically, like, all the challenges I had trying to find the right medication. I have, like, a drinking glass size of a variety of pills. Okay, they're out of reach of children, blah, blah, blah. All those pills went crashing to the floor, along with all my essential oils, glass shatter. Like, literally my children are in the car, and we're going to the airport.

So I cried for a second. I took a video and sent to Jonathan. And then I just closed the door and figured when I get back from Mexico, I'm going to deal with this. When I got home from Mexico, it was late in the evening and I had kind of forgotten. So I walked in and I knew

I'm going to open that door. It's just going to be pills and oil and glass. And indeed it was. So I gathered it all together and I sent Jonathan a photo, which I think is actually a very artistic rendering of what was going on. It's just a collection of pills and seashells

in my bath mat. Jonathan, would you like to show that photo to our friends? And I said, you know, this is kind of an artistic rendition of just like literally everything all over the floor. And it was a real exercise in letting go.

And then a certain amount of denial. I picked up the pechuli oil because I don't want the whole house to smell like pachuli and the floors in my bathroom are just poured concrete so that would have stained in a way that was not attractive. That was the start of my vacation. The first morning in Mexico, I rolled on my ankles so badly that it turned strange colors

and I'm actually shocked that I walked on it. Yeah. I mean, no one thought you should walk on it. Well, I went to Chechenica. I walked around Mayan ruins for three. three and a half hours. I wore my supportive sneakers, hoca, if you'd like to sponsor this show. I wore my hokas and I felt fine. It looked horrendous. And on my very last morning, going to a store to buy a souvenir, I rolled on that ankle again on the way to the airport

because it was already weak. And I was stepping down and Miles said, why didn't you step with your quote, good foot? I said because that would mean that my quote, bad foot was supporting my weight as I stepped down. It was kind of a larger step. Anyway, yeah, and I rolled, didn't know you could roll and swell up the inside of your ankle, but I did. Do you want to talk about the text

that you sent me when you got back home? Well, I wanted a lot of care and attention around this ankle, and you kind of were like, well, you shouldn't be on it. Rice, that's what you texted my child. The patient should be doing rice. Rest, what is it, rest,

ice, compression, exhale, Elevation. Elevation. Exhaling, yes. Exhale really deeply. Okay, so then what happened? Then you, I come up. We start talking and you're like, this is what I'm reflecting on on my life.

This is how my summer's going. This is how I'm feeling. And I'm like, I just want you to tell me that you feel really badly about my ankle. What you texted me was out of the blue, nonetheless, like totally, we hadn't spoken in a while. And then all of a sudden you text me the start of a thread. I think I may have to amputate my left pinky finger. with no context. You haven't mentioned that your pinky finger is sore.

I've heard about the ankle. I've heard about a little bit of sun burning. Just like random. And I, so I says, any context for this? You say, nope. Since I landed every time I bend it, it's incredibly painful. Lake so painful, it gives me chills, then correction to, like, I know you're busy building your creative empire

so I won't take away from that. Slightly sarcastic and a little bit aggressive. Just letting you know my body is beyond sending me signals and we are into the body just creating noise. I was supposed to do stuff with Aaron on TikTok tomorrow, et cetera, et cetera, play music. Okay, okay, okay, okay. But I think I need to rest.

To which I said, uh-oh. This is a great text exchange. It was my reply. We're just letting everyone know what Summers really like. over here. Which is not the right answer. And then we got into a conversation. Oh, oh, oh.

You mean sending me a clip of myself telling people to take care of themselves and listen to their bodies? You don't, maybe that wasn't the most effective thing after someone's been on an airplane with two sick children who don't have COVID. After, that's what you sent. You sent a clip of myself

which literally leads to a complete dissociation and depersonalization. Let's play the clip and see what people think. Pretend you're me. If someone sends you this clip when you're having a hard time, would it be helpful or not? Jonathan has taught me that there is a tremendous value in listening to your body, listening to your emotional state, listening to your physiological state. I hate my voice.

That's all I think when I hear that. I hate my voice and I hate that I fell and I hate that everything's all over the floor. And Jonathan's like, I've been feeling really good this week. Great. I have been. I've been feeling great lately. Summer's treating you well. Let's share some of our best of. If that wasn't, I mean, that's one of my favorite exchanges that we've had all week. If that's not enough, we have a very special episode of some of our best ofs collected by our fantastic team over here at our breakdown. The episode that people are about to experience is something that you and I have thought

really should be created from day zero. Like before we created any content, we envisioned this episode. Jonathan, what's this episode? Just super cuts of us talking? It's just the best of us. But it is some of our favorite things, our favorite moments, our favorite interactions. Mostly you teasing me is what I think. That's what you're imagining this episode is.

I think that's what most of our best moments are. Our producers are working around the clock, extracting the little bits to make the perfect mash-up episode of all the funniest moments, all the insight that you drop. You have so many smart things that you say? You have some smart things you say as well. It's the best of all those things.

So, yes. And we hope that you will enjoy. Again, this is our attempt at being fun and loose, summer edition of the breakdown, and we'll see you all in the fall. This game is called what Maim hears. Okay. I say something, and you pretend we're in that scenario, and you rapid fire without thinking, say the first thing that comes to your mind.

Now, I tend to be boyish, but this is going to be a very gendered conversation. I can already feel it coming. We'll see. We'll see how this goes. We're not together. We're in a different city. You text me. You say, can you talk?

I say I can't talk right now. You hear. I don't have time for you. There are things far more important than you. The novelty has worn off. Maybe I'll have time later. Okay. Next, we are in the same city.

We're hanging out. You say, let's go for a walk. I say, maybe we'll walk later. You hear. You always get to decide what we do. Why don't my needs matter? Should I be in this relationship? We are not to,

We're in two different cities. We're making plans of when we are going to see each other. You ask, when are you driving down? I say, I'm not sure what day I'm driving down yet. My aim here's... It's more important to me than this person. She's put on a few pounds. What's that?

Also, she's put on a few pounds. She's not what she went to us. Because if you were, then I would drive up. That's right. Okay. We're in the studio and I say, can you play some music to intro our musical guests? And you say, and you hear. He wants to embarrass me. He doesn't understand anything about the way the world works. I'm going to be humiliated. I'm horrible. And he wants everyone to see that. You're doing great so far. We're together. I say you're doing great so far. We're on a podcast. We're on a podcast. podcast, you hear. He's guilty about something and trying to make me feel better because he's going to tell

me he's cheating on me or something. Okay. We're deciding what guests can possibly come on the podcast. I say maybe insert any person's name there will come on the podcast. You hear. He's trying to usurp my position as a human. He doesn't know anything. And also, I hate myself.

I say I'm happy right now and things are going great. You hear. He's in denial. I'm allergic to cats. I say, I'm allergic to cats. You hear. If he really loved me, he'd stop being allergic to cats. And that's our little episode we call What Myam Here's.

What Myam Here's. This is a little game that I like to call. What does Jonathan hear? Jonathan, what I'd like you to answer is either what do you hear? hear or what do you think I mean that is insidious and oppressive? Fantastic. I'm excited. What does Jonathan hear? What do you hear when I say, let's go to my moms?

I need support. Don't make me go alone. Why can't you be with me at all times so that I don't have to deal with life alone? Go on. Okay. Accurate. You're doing great. Jonathan, what do you hear when I say, are you okay? Why won't you open up? You don't tell me anything about what's happening. Why can't you give me a live stream of every thought and feeling you've had since the last time I've asked for a live stream of your experience?

That's amazing. That's exactly what I'm asking. Jonathan, what do you hear when I say, do I look fat in this? I ignore that question. Go on. What do you hear when I say, why am I so fat? Nope, also a pass. What do you hear when I say, why do you like to hang out with me?

I hear, do you have a Nancy session anytime soon? Nancy's my therapist. What do you hear when I say, let's call your parents to say hi? If we could have a close up, if we can zoom in on what happened to his face when I said that, what do you hear when I say, let's call your parents to say hi? Let's call your parents to say hi. His eyebrows went in a direction that eyebrows shouldn't go in. What I hear when you say, let's talk to my parents, is like your headphone jack gets plugged into that thing and then it's just static.

Not because I shouldn't call them, but I'm like, what does she want to hear me talk about them and like evaluate how I'm treating them and what they say to me? And is that relationship healthy? That's really interesting. I thought you were going to say that you hear like, let's be more serious. Like, I want to be up in your parents' business. I want them to acknowledge that I am in a significant part of his life and know how important I am. Oh, my goodness. Is that what you hear?

No, I just hear static. What do you hear when I say, what should we do tonight? Make a decision. How come you don't plan anything? Why don't you treat me like I'm special by showing me how much you care about me by having elaborate plans for us to do together. And if he loved me more, you would make me art, write me poems, and

every free moment of time that we have together would be planned into something beautiful to express your love for me. Excellent. You're doing great. What do you hear? That is what you mean, isn't it? What do you hear when I... But hold on. Yeah, it's totally what I hear.

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Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention my and Biotic's breakdown to help support the show. When I say, whatever you want, I don't care about you. No, no, no. When you say whatever you want, it makes me want to tear your eyeballs out of your head and shove them in your nostrils. That's what you get for being agreeable, people.

No, because when you say whatever you want, What? What I hear is, I'm going to let you think that you're deciding, but chances are I'm not going to like it and I'll throw it up to you in approximately 18 days. What do you hear when I say, I need a second angle? I'm taking over your show and I will assassinate you and hide the body and carry on your legacy. And that will be my desk soon and I'll learn to play the piano and no one will miss you. you. Okay, last one. Yeah. What do you hear when I say, why did she get that job and I didn't?

Also, I hear Nancy's number on speed dial. Amazon One Medical presents painful thoughts. I've been on hold to make a doctor's appointment for 23 minutes now. The automated voice has told me 47 times that my call is very important to them. Hmm, I'm starting to think that they don't think my call is important at all. With Amazon 1 Medical 24-7 virtual care, you'll get help fast without having to remain on the line to make an appointment. Amazon 1 Medical. Health care just got less painful.

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I mean, here, I'm going to just do a quick example. Sorry, my eyes are itchy, which is like an immune response to stress. What I imagine, which sounds like insane, would be like, could I get to a meditative place, I don't know, or whatever? We're like, I'm not thinking of myself the way I've been trained to think about myself. right? Like, is there a version of Mayam that's, like, so beautiful? And, like, her body is perfect. And, like, we love her just the way she is. And, like, she's not annoying. She's not arrogant. She's, like, just this awesome person that everybody wants to talk to. Like, like that? She's not reactive. She's not reactive. She doesn't have any diagnoses. She's fine. She's perfect. Right. So how can we not have all those things when we're constantly in a thought cycle that we are those. things and we're reinforcing them.

Right. And then we reinforce them mentally and then physically we feel anxious because we're annoying, we're reactive, we're, have a diagnosis. And then we feel anxious because, oh my gosh, I think of these things about myself. Jonathan, why are my eyes itching? Because we're saying true things that you're having a reaction to and your body is physically programmed to have a reality that it understands. as you begin to push yourself outside of that reality, you have somatic responses.

So, okay, you've asked me, you asked me on the Corey Taylor episode, oh, you're really going at it right now. You're having a total somatic freak out. Okay, go ahead. Because you don't want to see that we have a major role in what we're experiencing. And you asked me in the Corey Taylor episode how I knew about clearing the apartment complex. And I was like evasive about it because I feel shy. And I think that people, honestly, I think people, honestly, I think people. like you with very scientific backgrounds who have a very strong command of language and who are

very analytical are going to sort of rip down my experience. But I've spent 20,000 hours monitoring and witnessing people have somatic reactions to emotional responses and doing hands-on work where they guide that through. And when we bring up levels of limited thinking to see the reaction that people physically have as their autonomic nervous system goes into a repair function is profound. And there is a connection. There is a connection between the thought, feedback loop that we have and the physical reactions we have and that we limit our body's ability to repair and get back into some form of homeostasis because we're constantly thinking about the limits or the diagnosis or the anticipatory reaction that we're going to get from some major problem.

And I'm not immune to it at all. No, you're certainly not, but that's for another episode. And everything you've said, you know, is true. You know, the word that I said I don't like to use. Everything you have said, like, you haven't said anything that is not, that we don't know, honestly, you know, is true in our existence. I think the freak out is that your body's like, what if we do step up, out of this like part that we're contributing to our limit because I think we all want to move

outside of whatever limits that we're struggling with. I'm just, you know what I think it is? I think I'm hitting my limit. I mean, totally serious. So what's happening for those of you who are not watching is I've had a, like, nothing's going on in this room. Like we've been sitting here for hours. There's no new smells.

Like Scott, you don't wear cologne, do you? No. Like there's, he's been in the room for hours anyway. I have not used any new detergent or any new hair product. The kind of scientific explanation for what's happening, the basic scientific explanation is that when certain chemicals reach a certain level, many of which can be related to stress or immunity, our body will start reacting with a heightened immune response. So I'm a person also who's hyper allergic in general.

Like my allergic system operates the way my emotional system does. Like, I don't just get a mosquito bite. Like, I get an elaborate allergic reaction that looks like it needs medical attention. And it will persist for days and days and it will get infected and, like, all these things. Like, I'm that person. So what we know is that an elevated stressor in anyone's life, it raises your baseline. So if you've ever wondered why you're, for example, irritable when you're in pain, part of it is that all of your system is up, you know, is already up to your nose.

So if any little thing happens, it's going to spill out the top of your head. Explain why this conversation would have your immune system react like that. So this is where, you know, it gets a little dangerous because you may think, you know, that you know, but there is not an absolute truth to what in this case activated this allergic. reaction. What do you think? Well, I'm going to think the thing that's less impactful, which is that we've been talking about really intense things. I had really high expectations of this interview. Like, we ended up not getting to talk to him as long as I wanted, so I felt like a little bit anxious about that. Sorry, I cut you off, but your very physical eye-itching, almost uncontrollable eye-itching happened only after you talked about all the ways that you have a narrative of

about who you are, and I began to talk about how much time do you spend outside of that narrative? And if we track just the timing of the conversation, that's what you physically reacted to. It could be. Why do you think that specific topic, which, you know, I have my theory, which is that it's pushing you outside of a comfort zone of what you're used to. It brings up a tremendous amount, you know, of, I mean, yeah, of activation, you know, of a system that is used to resisting. However, thinking as a scientist, what's to say that, this is going to be our promo, what's to say that the sound of your voice and the image of your face for all the years I've known you didn't all of a sudden cumulatively cause such inner disgust and repulsion that my body started

elevating adrenaline and epinephrine? And just like everything was just like, nah, get out. It could also be it. And this is why I don't tell you things. Let's do an ask why I'm anything. Okay, I was thinking of trash talking you. Oh, let's do that first. No, no, it's fine.

No, it's going to get mean fast. He said you can't talk about people's mom. That's my favorite thing to give you shit about. So you're already doing it wrong. Oh, I've done my research. That's trash talk right there. You're so sensitive. I can't even pick on you about your mom.

Why are you so sensitive, bro? You don't let a name call. That's another thing. Your head's a funny shape. What type of funny shape is it? It's got weird shape in the rack. That's why I wear my hat. Your hair fell out in a weird pattern.

Why you shave it? What else to keep going? This is good. You're doing well. What about my extra ankles? Should I be riding? Should I be writing your trash talking? I say that Jonathan's essentially a newborn giraffe.

And I say he has gorilla arms because I literally think they hit the ground. You'll be like, oh shit, I wish you could reach that thing. He's like, go go gadget arms. He can reach anything. Sometimes I say you want to put some food through that hole where your tooth should be. Oh, that went too far. This game is over. Jonathan, do you have anything to say about hunger cues? I have a ton to say here. One is that I want to dispel any myth that this type of lack of hunger cues or relationship with food is at all a female only thing. I think it gets attributed a lot to women and women talk a lot more about it. I had the same thing. My family, constant grazer, constant snacks. All my friends used to be like,

you never stop eating. And I would pack food. You don't stop eating. I mean, I prevent, and I don't associate myself with having an eating disorder necessarily. And I'd love to sort of outline, like, what are the things that maybe if someone has no concept that they might fall into this category, what should we look for? But let's not do that just yet. I can't wait for that. Yeah, I think it's fascinating. But for me, like, I would preventatively eat because what would happen is I would crash so hard that I would start to feel delirious. Like my ex when I was married, she would carry snacks for me because, like, we would go to Costco and then like I'd become a monster. I couldn't focus. I didn't know where I was going. And I started to actually develop, um,

I started training myself because it used to be that when I woke up in the morning, if I didn't eat, I felt nauseous and like almost physically sick within 15 to 20 minutes. And but then I heard about people like who intermittently fast. And I heard that if you're grazing all the time, your digestive system is constantly working. And so that is actually quite bad for us because we're putting a lot of energy into our digestion instead of into the reparative functions of some of our other processes that we need. So I started to like be like, well, how can I start? to adjust that. So I started to push myself a little bit. And I would tell myself, like, I feel this sensation like I'm dizzy and I'm about to die. But like any other emotion, I'm going to sort of breathe through it and get through it. And I started pushing myself to the point where I didn't have

to eat right when I woke up. And I started developing a different relationship with my hunger cues. And by no means is, am I solved by, because sometimes I don't feel hungry at all. And I'm wondering why. And sometimes I still get to the point where I feel really sick from not even. or from having that crash. But I think the idea that we all have to re-evaluate what is the signal that is driving us to eat, when are we really hungry versus when are we feeling another emotion that we associate with food. And then also how do we understand what do we really need in order to survive versus whatever other role food is playing in our lives? We spend the least amount of time shopping, prepping, thinking. And some people have gone the other way where you're

like, oh, we're superfoodies. But a lot of people, like, you're ordering Uber eats, does our lack of actually touching food, chopping food, cooking food, impact our hunger signals? Because now it's like, I think I'm hungry. I'm just going to order something. And then, oh, then it's done. Like, the interaction is so fast. Like, is there part of us that needs the ritual of actually cooking, prepping, thinking about that we're going to eat, prep it, like, because there's a preparation that happens in our body that when we're cooking before we start to just consume. Yeah, and super duper shout out to religious traditions that pray before they eat. And, you know, in my, our tradition, we pray after we eat.

And one of the things that is so meticulous and ritualized about a lot of the practices of religious Judaism in particular. there's a prayer for every kind of food. There are categories of food and you bless each category independently unless you break bread because bread is like a super blessing. But that notion, which like my children,

I try and do that literally on Shabbas. I try and do it one day a week and it is so painful for my children to wait. Just wait. We're going to bless the wine, grape juice. We're going to bless the chala. You're going to bless. to wait. And then you also have to wash your hands and bless it and wait. And like, it is so

painful. And when I'm with my religious family or religious friends, there's such a mindfulness because everyone's on that plane of timing about food. You know, I think a lot about how technology impacts our psychology, our neurobiology and our, you know, physiology. And I do really wonder a lot about how the speed and access to things in our lives are changing our perception of them. So does it change? Like you consume that burger, you wolf it down while you've done seven other things. You've only, you know, the amount of time you spend to get it and to think about it is only a few minutes and then a few minutes consuming it. Maybe it changes our hunger signals. Maybe it changes how full we feel. And then when we want our next meal. And I think that's like we're at the

beginning of something very different in our evolutionary history. People are going to be impacted by social media differently. What's anxiety provoking for many of us around social media is the frequency with which we need to check. Yeah. And the frequency with which information comes in and the volume of information that comes in. Those things, no matter what the...

I don't care if you're looking up only rescue shelters that are in need of animals for you to adopt. The volume of information, the speed at which it comes in, that promotes anxiety for, I'd say a lot of people. One of my favorite experiments to do to see how anxious you are because of your phone slash social media in particular, leave it in the car next time you go somewhere. Just leave it in the car. You're going for a walk? Leave it in the car. You're going to meet a friend for coffee or at an outdoors restaurant, safe distance with a mask?

leave it in the car and see what happens. Don't plug it in next to your bed at night, see what happens. Stop using it after 9 p.m. and see what happens. We're not responsible if your car gets broken into and stolen. Don't use it until after you've had breakfast in the morning. And what's going to happen is you're going to feel very, very strange. That's anxiety. There's something about funny actor energy that I don't like you around.

I don't like how you. You don't like jokes. You don't like fun. No, there's some, I think it's. What happens? I don't know. I laugh. You don't like laughing unless it's laughing it with you.

Unless you're the joke tell you. No, I think, in all seriousness, I think like, Justin, he's a very, very, you know, he's a very sweet guy. Like, he's a, he's like a good guy. He's like a guy that if I, you know, got to work with him, it would be really fun and really awesome. But yeah, there's something about when I'm with people like that who like, you know, it's a lot of my life. life is like that personality and like working with it.

There's something about having you part of it that feels very like, stay out. I'm just being honest. Again, hoarding all the fun for yourself. Jonathan, you can talk to doctors. You can talk to experts who want to talk about the brain, but no one who tells jokes. Body dysmorphia is the term used to describe people who have a skewery. and inaccurate perception of their physical presence. And what this means is that there's nothing wrong with your eyeballs.

There's nothing wrong with the mirror you're looking at or the physical lens that you're looking with. But there is miscommunication between the representation of your body and the way your brain processes it. And this is different than hating your brain. body, which many people don't like their body. Body dysmorphia tends to revolve around, tends to revolve around a particular region of the body. For example, someone might fixate on their nose. And we're not just talking like, I don't like my nose. I want to get a nose job. We're talking that there's not an accurate perception of what that part of your face looks like,

to the point that it becomes an obsession and a fixation. It often will lead to, yes, in some cases, repeated surgeries and manipulations, but even beyond that, there's not a way to make it look right because what's wrong is the, you know, it's not the eyeballs in seeing, but the way we see ourselves. And body dysmorphia can often be treated, usually with SSRIs. So the same things that are used to treat kind of classical depression tend to help body dysmorphia. Does that mean that everyone who has body dysmorphia is depressed? No. Do most people who have body dysmorphia also experience other challenges that might be of the

depressive, anxious variety? Yes. It's not the kind of thing that is helpful if you have body dysmorphia for other people to tell you you look good or that there's nothing wrong with your thighs or your hair or whatever part of you. And that can also move around. Like you can be a person who like has body dysmorphia and, you know, one month it's your eyes and then it shifts.

But being told you look good doesn't help. Being shown, you know, different pictures of yourself. Those things don't work. It's very, very frustrating. Why do Srosar eyes help that? Oh, well, the brain is redundant, you know, to a certain extent. We only have so many chemicals. And there are, you know, there are pathways and deficiencies that can get activated for

a lot of reasons. And one of the systems that is active in that kind of perpetuation of that that kind of loop happens to be one that is sensitive to serotonin. Narcissism named for narcissus, that guy who fell into the pond looking at his own reflection, correct? That is correct. It is a diagnosis. It is a diagnosis. And the diagnosis is narcissistic personality disorder or NPD. And it's a problem or a tendency? They say a lot of narcissistic people get ahead in life, but they are hated often. So people who are narcissists tend to be extremely self-focused and self-centered, meaning centered around themselves.

And that can be a very, you know, ambitious kind of person. But the thing with people who are classic clinical narcissists is that there's often a inability to fully engage emotionally and interactions with these individuals can be very, very difficult. It can often feel like being ignored and rejected when it's really the person's lack of ability to give or consider anything but themselves. And narcissistic personality disorders is also characterized by people who really see the entire world through their lens. meaning other people's experiences also really are only relevant as they relate to them. Having a narcissist as a parent is very, very difficult.

Often leaves the child feeling, you know, abandoned, neglected. Having a narcissist as a partner also very, very complicated. Narcissistic personality disorder is a disorder. So there are differences between diseases and syndromes and disorders. and the fact is, you know, I'm going to go ahead and say that just about anyone can change. However, the degree to which people can change may not be what you expect. And it takes a lot of time and work for someone who is a clinical narcissist to be able to do the kind of work, to not gain that diagnosis, meaning that it's a very, it is a very specific personality disorder.

And that actually is an entire category of mental health challenges is personality disorders. So there's obsessive-compulsive personality disorder as distinct from OCD, distinct from obsessive-compulsive disorder. Many other personality disorder, borderline is a personality disorder. And I'm just going to say that things that have the moniker personality disorder, What that's telling you is that's a very deeply programmed and ingrained part of who that person is. Again, does that mean that they can't change? No. But it's, that's going to be pushing a boulder up a hill a little bit. And there's levels to it, right? You could have a sprinkle of narcissism.

Well, I mean, this is the thing. It's like everybody's got a little bit of everything. And, you know, some people, you know, yell at their partners. Like, you're being such a narcissist. That just means that you're not doing what I want you to, right? A little bit. I've been taught that dreams are symbolic. Not him. Let's pick a dream that I could have woken up and been like, must pursue this. Like, are there donkeys with wings?

Let me go find them. Do you have a recurring donkeys with wings dream? I do. This is the first I'm hearing about this. Name me a dream of yours that you think maybe we shouldn't take literally. I mean, I fly sometimes. I have a recurring flying dream. Right.

Never flown. I mean... Do you have a better example, bro? I mean, I had a recurring dream that actually came true, but I didn't go pursue it. Whoa. I had a recurring dream about the town of Ashland that I wrote to you about and I told you about that I showed up and it was like this extremely distinct place. And the geography is what made it so specific. There was like a river next to a downtown area.

and I ended up in this town in 2018. In real life. In real life, I walked downtown for the first time, and I was just struck. I was hit so hard by this recurring dream that I had. I had it about like once a week for several years. Okay, that's weird, babe. And then... You're telling a weird story.

I mean, weird in a good way, but I feel like that's a little bit of a different story. It's a recurring dream. I was looking for like, I once dream that I joined the circus, but I didn't do it. Instead, Jonathan's like, I speak to the universe, and it sends me messages of where I should live. Like, that's a different story. Well, this was not necessarily permanent living. I was on this road trip in the dream and I was arguing with my then partner and we got to this town. We pulled over on like, on this road trip. Is this real life or the dream? This is the dream. And then we park there and I just turned to her and I'm like, can we rest here a little while? And like there was so much tension

in the car from- Cut to, we live here now. We do, but I don't think we're living there forever. And it, I had forgotten about that dream. This just took a turn. I had totally forgotten about that dream until I then walked in that downtown. And I hadn't had it for like five years that dream. But I was like totally struck. I'm like, holy shoot, this is the location of the dream. Canadians also don't curse.

That I had been having for years and years prior to that. And it like totally freaked me out. One of my favorite things that we do here at Miami-MBelix breakdown is to break down the science behind things that people don't often know. have science that relate to mental health. And gratitude is one of them. And, you know, I'm kind of allergic to positivity, meaning like, I'm not. You hate when I'm positive.

No, I'm just like, I wouldn't say I'm like an optimistic, positive person. Like, that's just not, it's not my vibe. I was kidding, by the way. You like positive. No, I do, but I'm much more resonate with gratitude and an attitude of gratitude, which. Because there can be false positivity, which is a whole other problem. Yeah, and like I'm very, I'm just, it's me, it's not you. you know, I'm very sensitive to false positivity or to kind of...

Spiritual bias. No, or like super... Sometimes it can feel superficial to me or can feel inauthentic. But what's interesting is that there have been some really interesting studies, scientific studies about gratitude. And some of the things, you know, you can kind of dismiss if you'd like to. I mean, the studies report, there was a study of, I think, 300 college students that was done. And, you know, they found that, like, depression markers decreased when people were asked to, like, write

gratitude letters every day and things like that. But enter functional MRI machine. That's right. FMRI is our friend. And there have been gratitude studies that have been done when people are in an MRI scanner. And I'm happy to describe what an MRI scanner does another day. My undergraduate thesis, we used functional MRI. It's showing blood flow and brain activity. And there are things that we can infer from the patterns that we see and the changes in blood flow and and the, and the therefore oxygen delivery to different parts of the brain. And gratitude seems to activate the medial prefrontal cortex, which is generally associated with learning and decision making. So the idea is that when we experience gratitude, when we express gratitude, our brain is rewiring in some ways.

And I'm not saying that as like the brain can rewire. I'm literally talking about when you express and have access to things that you can be grateful for, even if, fill in the blank, it allows your brain to start learning and accepting and being open in a new way. And that's one of the things that 12-step programs in particular are big on is gratitude lists, you know? When you wake up, can you be grateful about three things without feeling guilty about it, without feeling like, oh, but also this is. is going on and I shouldn't be. You have a right to experience gratitude and it is. It's good for your brain. And it can be little things too.

That's what people don't understand. Totally. My life has to be perfect in order to have gratitude. You know what my list sometimes sounds like? Cats. Just that they exist. Just cats. Patience.

I often just have gratitude for patience. The gift of pausing is something all I can like get my head around in the morning. I'm just grateful that I've learned that I don't have to instantly react to everything. I'm grateful for the gift of recovery that. that I can experience things bigger than myself. But those notions of gratitude, it does. It puts a different lens on your day. Your lens of looking and listening to yourself is also, let's talk about your pants.

Okay. I bought Jonathan a pair of pants. Yes. You did. I love them. That's great. So you went to the store and you returned them for a bigger size, which is completely your prerogative.

exchanged. So when I said to you, this is just, this is a demonstration of the lens. Okay. When I said to you, so those actually aren't the pants that I got you. No. What did you say? That's not the first thing you said to me. You said, are those the pants that I got you?

And I said yes. Because I know, number one, that you have like this very, like, it's very important to you that you picked out something that I like. So now you went and returned it and got different sides. But I didn't return it because I didn't like it, which is what I knew you were out. But hold on. Right. I knew you were like, did Maim pick something that Jonathan was like, oh, wow. No, I know you love it.

I really like, Jonathan really likes us. So I said, yeah, they are the exact pants, which. They're not the exact pants. Actually, I didn't say that. I said, yes, they're the pants. And you said, but I added, I didn't lie to you. And then I added that I returned them for a different size. Right.

Exchange them, actually is what I said. Right. And then you said, so they're not the same pants. I said, they're the same pants. They're the same style. They're the same color. But they're not the same fabric. So then I, they are not the exact pair that you gave me, but they're the same pants.

If Byron Katie were to say, is it true, those are the same pants? They are the same pants. They are not the exact same pair that you handed me, but they are the same pants. One of my problems with Jonathan is he redefines words and concepts to Ben, him. Let's take a poll. So if we were to videotape you talking about anything so that you could have evidence that people misunderstood you, you would still think it was their problem, not yours. Correct. Poll on At Biallic Breakdown. Are those the same pants? Are they the same pants? Like nothing gets lost. I mean, but it sounds like lost in the sense is a good thing.

No, no, that's what I'm saying. Like the mark of your experience lives in your brain. It lives in your body. You could say it lives in your soul. Like, I don't want to get deep. But speaking strictly from like a neuroscience perspective, yeah, that's, that that has happened to you. What, and I think there's something in between, does it get lost and does it lay dormant? And what that is is that you gain coping mechanisms and you gain skills and you gain perspective, which is kind of like this amorphous term. But what perspective really is is a set of coping mechanisms that allow you to place your trauma and it's true place. You know, a lot of, a lot of people who have, who experienced flashbacks or who have blackouts or things like that related to memory, you're often reminded to like, is this happening

now? And it sounds like such a ridiculous thing because like, you think like, oh, this is for people who have a very strong trauma response, you can feel like you are in another place. That's actually the definition of flashback. Um, is not that you're remembering something, is that your physiological state is in a different, you know, time. So part of that perspective is learning to be able to reorient. And it does. It takes a certain amount of skills to be able to say like, oh, these are the tools. Like, oh, these are trigger signs.

These are warnings. If I watch that movie, this is going to happen. And so, like, avoiding things that you know are going to be triggering. So, yeah, I also don't want people to think, like, oh, if I have trauma, it's going to like live with me forever. I'm never going to, quote, get over it. You absolutely can thrive, you know, beyond just. surviving, you can thrive if you've had trauma. But yeah, it absolutely does take learning skills

that typically do come from, you know, either a professional or many resources. Yeah, I think is that that I feel like. That's a good answer. Okay. Also, I think not to open up a totally other topic area because, you know, these things are not related universally, but like in some ways when you have a trauma response like that, time is non-linear. Yeah. Well, people will be like, oh, it's time, it'll get better. Not necessarily. No, I've had that experience, too, where I've, like, lost it at something that's seemingly

fairly non-threatening. No. That's not where I was going. Not relationship counseling currently. But where it's something that objectively there isn't a huge risk, but I have a really strong reaction to it. And I'm like, oh, wait a second. That is something that's.

All right, you're being really serious. No. No, what I'm saying is like, yes. And the fact is, no, I'm agreeing because I've witnessed this. No, I think that's an important point, though, that the notion's not, well, that happened 40 years ago. What's wrong with you? Or you're very young.

That happened 35 years ago. What's wrong with you? Or that happened 20 years ago or five years ago or- We're marked by our experiences, but it doesn't mean you still can't thrive? If someone needs help, if you need help or someone else you know needs help, how do you start to bring up those questions and be supportive? I think in general when trying to figure out how to broach these kind of topics, one of my general guidelines is to use eye statements. Because especially if someone's struggling, it's very, very hard to hear you this, you that, you that. I'm noticing that you blah, blah, blah.

So an eye statement is not, I'm noticing that you're a wreck, right? An I statement would be, I've been noticing that in our interactions, we're not connecting like we usually do. I'm noticing that we don't seem to do the same things that we used to do together. That's if someone is isolating. So I think trying to keep it about your experience of either missing or wanting to, you know, interact with the other person, I think that's more powerful than sort of, as we say, reading them their inventory, saying, you're doing this, you're doing that, especially if it's someone who's struggling with alcoholism or, you know, addiction saying, you drink too much, you know?

That never goes well. That never goes well. And that should be remembered. So I think what I know from personal experience is you can't make anyone go to therapy. It is something that that person does have to come to on their own. If someone is a danger to themselves or others, there's obviously a very different protocol. but part of what I'd like to advocate for is keeping the focus on yourself and your wellness when someone else is struggling, meaning they still need to have their own process. And we don't know what someone's bottom is.

You know, that's an expression we use in alcoholism. But we don't know what someone's emotional bottom is either. I think it's always important. I have someone in my family who is really not, she's not in touch with me the way I'd like her to. be. But telling her that is not necessarily helpful. But saying to her, I miss our interactions. I miss being able to hear what's going on in your life. That's preferable to me saying, you seem to be isolating. You're not calling me. What's wrong with you? You've described yourself as being a very aware and connected to other people's emotions. To a detriment to myself. To a detriment to yourself.

To a detriment to yourself. Do you find that you've, you know, do you have any techniques or approaches to sort of being an engaged listener where you're sort of not taking on the pain of the person? It's a great question and it's actually something that I was just texting with my mother about last night. She interacted with a person who's a perfectly nice person. Like it was nothing about that. Nothing about them not being nice. But the way that they spoke, she did not like her soul did not like. Meaning she had a reaction.

She had a reaction. And, you know, give that woman the word trigger, she will use it. She got triggered by him. Or, yeah. And, you know, what was interesting is that, like, I don't mean to, like, sound like a parent. But what I said to her is something that, like, my therapist would say to me, which is, like, maybe you should look at, you know, what it is about this person that is making you unable to separate your reaction to that person from that person. Yeah, I don't think she was buying it.

Bev. Yeah, Bev wasn't having it. No, I don't think she was ready, you know, to hear it. But, you know, the techniques that I've found for me are, you know, continuing to keep the focus on myself as much as possible, meaning there's all sorts of times as a parent, as a partner, as a lover, where you have to, you know, pick up on all sorts of different cues. but I really I'm trying to reserve that you know really for the people who kind of need that from me the most meaning that's not every single person I interact with because that's sort of my tendency as as an empath I can I can like take on all the things I mean you know just driving around you know the city streets there's a million opportunities to have your heartbroken you know so um the more I kind of I don't mean focus on myself, meaning don't care about other people. I mean, when you're, you know, pointing one finger at someone else, you're pointing three back at yourself. Think about it. Um, so a lot of

times for me, I've noticed that, um, there's a desire to lose myself in someone else or lose myself in their experience or get all up in their business because I don't want to think about my own. And, um, yeah, those are some hard lessons, but I feel like, you know, I'm still learning them, I guess. I've heard a technique described for people who are, you know, find themselves having like a really hard time listening to people who are struggling or, you know, who like kind of shut down where they imagine that there's like an energetic basket. That that person has fallen off a cliff. That they don't exist and they have no problems at all and that the sound they're hearing isn't real. No, it's that there's like an energetic basket in between them and the person.

What do you mean basket? It's like almost like a bowl or or some... A holding space. A holding space. You put them in that basket? You don't put them, but you have, instead of what they're saying... Oh, it's like a moat. That's an interesting way to think about it. I like the notion of how you described it as a holding basket, because instead of what they're saying, sort of coming at the empath or the person who's listening and sort of like attacking them and them not sort of knowing how to metabolize it,

it instead lives in the space in between the two of you. That's right. Yeah. And sort of it goes in there. You can interact with it from there, but it sort of gives the person listening. a bit of a boundary where they can be active and engaged, but it's not sort of overwhelming them to the point where they have to shut down. It's like a little, it's like an emotional spillover.

Yeah. And I think that using visualization and imagination in that space can help because I think what happens, and I can't speak for everyone, that when we get overwhelmed by someone else who is suffering or going through something, what we're doing is like we're feeling it so deeply. It's kind of hitting us. Is Bev an empath? I don't know.

but I think what happens is we get overwhelmed and we become uncomfortable with that. We don't know how to function. And therefore, we can't be as present with those people as we would like. And then we could come off as like uncaring or shut down. But really what's happening is that you're feeling it so deeply that your system is being overrun. That sounds like a way that assholes can get away with convincing people that they're not assholes. I'm just so overwhelmed by what you're experiencing. I feel you so much that I can't listen anymore or care.

you're on your own, thank you. That's really the flip side of being an empath. Now you have to go back to every relationship you've ever had where that was the case. All of the people who have said their empaths, I'd be like, really what's happening is you're, not that we like labels here. That's we don't like labels. But you're a narcissist and you never cared.

It is a famous saying that I got from my rabbi. He did not say it, but he passed it on. If you think that the Bible is a science book, I've got better science books for you. It's not a science book. And even the most religious people don't believe that it is. And I'm speaking for religious people. The notion of truth is a very amorphous one in all religion and really in our existence in general.

And everything I've ever learned about science makes me sure that I couldn't create it and can't change it. And everything that I've learned about religion has given me a way to appreciate the world of science with tremendous awe. and trembling. I'm floored by the mysteries of the universe. And to me, I call that divine, and you don't have to. Back together. Together again, still. Maybe I'll always.

I will say that there's something, there's a real ease to being alone. You know, just like sitting here and like I had to do some ads, you know, alone. and, you know, when you're alone, you don't have to think about anybody else. You don't have to worry, you know, are they going to do their lines right? And, you know, do they have different pacing than you? And, you know, you can do stuff whenever you want. You know, I didn't have to worry about your schedule when I did that. Someone on our team may have even commented that I seem to be much more relaxed than in a better mood.

I don't know. And team member, I'd like to know who you are. And then what I also realized is that there are certain things you can't do alone. It's harder to make jokes by yourself. It's harder to be interrupted by people who can't leave a tender moment alone. It is hard to make jokes when you're by yourself. It is hard to have your reality reflected back to you when you're by yourself. It's hard to have someone keep you honest because we often can't keep ourselves honest.

There are certain things that happen in part. that just don't happen alone. And it was also interesting to reflect on because, you know, I'm a person who's kind of had a boyfriend, for example, from the time I'm like 16, you know, really kind of pretty much straight through to like being married and then I've been divorced. And so like I've had a lot of time to be someone's partner, someone's helper, someone's mom, you know, and being divorced, I've, you know, gotten a lot of time by myself. So I've really gotten to have, that inner play and really kind of play with that. But I think it really is an interesting moment

that that's a little bit the struggle of introverts. There are so many things I enjoy about being alone. There are so many things that are more convenient, easier. And also, it can be lonely. You know, it can be lonely. So I'm very glad you're back. Now he makes a joke because it's too intimate. I'm glad I'm back making your life more difficult.

But also reflecting your life. reality. So maybe that's a good thing. I don't know. I kind of heard a mixed bag, but I'm going to take it nonetheless. Myam's beauty is that she's very complex and very complicated. And Mayam's not going to function like a Kelly or a hunter. I mean, no, God bless her. She's got a brain that's different. Bev, if you and I had to design a mantra for Maim right now. Oh my God. Let's do a little work What would our mantra be for my. I am whole. I am enough.

I am the world. Oh, my God. Let me be. The only part of that mantra I like is let me be. People don't let you be. I'm going to wake up every morning and say, let me be. I am whole. I am enough.

I'm enough. I'm the world. Let me be. I love it. Thank you. Jonathan, it's very hard to pick what the best of us is. We're creating it as we speak. You know what people should do?

They should subscribe to the YouTube page and then go over to Instagram, Appiolic Breakdown and tell us which moments they like the best out of that. Maybe there were moments that we're missing. Tell us what those are too, and we'll do another mashup. But in the meantime, we will be busy creating many more of our best moments. And we will see you next time. I will not be tan anymore, but we'll see you in the fall. I hope everyone's having a good summer.

Jonathan hopes everyone's having a good summer from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's My and Beallix Breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fiction. And now she's going to break down.

It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down.