Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Taylor & Tay Lautner: You Can’t Please Everyone

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

Taylor & Tay Lautner on BODY SHAMING, Pressures of Global SUPERSTARDOM, & Finding LOVE!   What’s it like to be married to someone with your exact name?? Taylor Lautner and his wife, Tay Lautner, open up in this deeply personal and eye-opening episode of MBB!   From Taylor’s whirlwind journey as a global superstar in the Twilight series where he experienced an unprecedented level of stardom, to Tay’s relentless dedication as a nurse during the pandemic, this couple shares their unique experiences with fame, body image, mental health, and love.   Taylor Lautner gets candid about the negative effects of fame that made it difficult for him to leave his house, why he took a pause from the entertainment industry, dating Taylor Swift, the pressures of being a teenage sex symbol, and overcoming body image issues that haunted him for years. He also opens up about being bullied in school for being an actor, his struggles with people-pleasing and perfectionism, the origins of his optimistic nature and sense of discernment, and his insecurities with fame now.   Tay speaks to the life-and-death pressures of nursing and the obsessive compulsive tendencies she thinks it has instilled in her. She also details her struggles with burnout and boundary-setting and pinpointing her actual wants and needs, and the emotional toll of her loved ones' battles with addiction and bipolar disorder.   Together, they explore the dangers of over-compartmentalizing and not allowing yourself to feel full range of emotions, how they balance their relationship despite having different love languages, and what it means to grow and heal together.   Join the Lautner power couple as we break down their mental health journey, their favorite tools for mental wellness, and the most valuable things they’ve learned doing their own successful mental health podcast, The Squeeze!   Taylor & Tay Lautner's podcast, The Squeeze: https://www.lemonsbytay.com/the-squeeze-podcast   BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I think I was so young that it was hard for me to really accurately register what exactly was going on. In the moment, it was just fun. It was just a wild ride to be on. I felt loved and appreciated. I'm a people-pleasing personality, so it felt good. You were just thrown into this whirlwind that lasted years. That is what developed me placing value in the wrong things for me that only were going to end up breaking my heart. In the moment, I was totally fine with it because it was all positive playing a role,

and that's what I needed to do to maintain playing this role. It's a lot easier to maintain a body that looks like that when you're 17, 18, 19 years old. It really just had a massive effect on my self-esteem, which caused me to never want to leave my house. It only got worse. I definitely suffered with body image issues in recent years. That probably was a massive part of it. I just always felt the need to be perfect. It's my biologs breakdown.

She's going to break it down for you. Because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. Hi, I'm I'm Bialik. And I'm Jonathan Cohen. And welcome to our breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to. This is exciting because today we are breaking down two people with the same first name

who happened to be married to each other. That's right, folks. Taylor Lautner and Taylor Lautner. The first Taylor Lautner is an American actor known for his role as Jacob Black. in one of the world's biggest movie franchises, the Twilight series. He also was in The Adventures of Shark Boy and Lava Girl and has done a ton of other things, but with his wife, who's also named Taylor, he has a mental health podcast called The Squeeze. And his wife Taylor, who goes by Tay, is a mental health speaker and activist.

She's also a nurse. And she worked through the height of the COVID pandemic, and she ended up leaving her job due to depression and anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder. But together they have started this podcast called The Squeeze, which I've been on, and we're very excited to get to speak to both of them. If people don't know the Twilight series because they didn't read the news for a while, I think it's appropriate to say that it was like a massive international phenomenon where grown people were like sleeping on the street just for a

a chance to be at the premiere. Like, it was, it was crazy. It was, it was a real, you know, it was actually social media was still kind of newish. And the reason I remember this is I was invited to the premiere of Breaking Dawn. My kids were like just old enough that I could leave them to like go for a premiere. I had never read the books. I didn't know anything about this. I was living under a Big Bang Theory rock. I had no idea. And I got all dressed up and we did like a like a vamp. lip, not knowing that the person who did my makeup knew what I was going to, and I wore all black, and, like, it was very kind of goth. Anyway, I go there and there's, like, people sleeping on the street for weeks, they left their children back home with the papa so that they could sleep on the street.

It was madness. I think it was the largest premier I'd ever been to, but social media was, like, still kind of a newish thing, but it was a global, I mean, it was a phenomenon. People were insane, and you were either a vampire person or you were a were a werewolf person. And I went to this premiere. I literally think I, I think I went alone. And I just, like, had my popcorn and I had the best time. I was like, this is a fascinating movie. I loved it.

Like, you know, it's not like, oh, high, complicated drama. Like, it's got, like, a little soap opera feel to it. But, like, the acting is fun. Like, Kristen Stewart, she's pouty, and I loved it. And, like, it's a love triangle. And the effects are great. I was just eating my popcorn. I had a great time.

It was great. From that series, Taylor has launched into a massive global start on his entire life changes. He's on the cover of Sports Illustrated. He's an international sex symbol, which has a lot of complication. People think, oh, that would be great, but it has a dark side to it as well. And this interview gets into, even beyond that, it gets into really fascinating aspects of being a couple, what his life is like with Taylor. Also, the other Taylor.

Yeah, like, should we talk about? He dated Taylor Swift. He was on stage. When Kanye came up and stole the mic, he's going to talk all about it. And he talks about his relationship with his body, how it changed from the time when the whole world was looking at it, to the time where he's at now,

where he's the one looking at it. And his wife's the one looking at it. Do you think his wife thinks his body is perfect? I ask it. a lot of things in this interview because they're so sweet. They're so nice. They talk a lot about their relationship, why they started a podcast together, what it's like to work together. And they also, they're very reflective about the other and how they relate with the outside world. It's a really, really fun interview. Let's welcome to the breakdown. Taylor and Taylor

Lautner. Break it down. Thank you. It was really, really fun to get to be on your podcast. And especially, because we are, you know, I consider us cousins in the podcast universe in that we're in the family of, you know, doing podcasts to talk about difficult things in the mental health and well-being space. And you both, Tay, in particular you, have been incredibly vulnerable in even wanting to start, you know, a podcast because of, you know, this really specific experience that you went through, which we'll get to. But I'm going to start with an obvious question

because you're both named Taylor. Is the tree real? That's the obvious question. We actually have had quite a few people ask us, or I think it is real. It sadly is not. It's a very realistic looking fake lemon tree. We do have some real lemon trees outside,

but sadly there's no sunlight in this room. Sorry. He's, yeah. Well, that was not my question. I think we should get a tree, Maim. That's the real takeaway. We could have a Christmas tree year round, because I don't have a Christmas tree at Christmas time,

but it could just live here year round. We have a little Christmas tree. Jonathan is already trying to do what you do on your podcast so well, which is be casual and act like normal people. And I usually jump right into the questions, like we're in a war zone, and I need to interview you about what's going on, boots on the ground.

Straight to it. Why not? Jonathan, have I acted like a normal person enough? You have a list. No one will distract you from that list. Everyone get out of the way. Let's go. You know, I'm sure it's happened other times in the history of the world that people with the same name get married. Tay, you go by Tay all the time? Or just for like these purposes when people have to talk to both of you in one room. Yeah, both.

I did normally go by Taye like before we started dating. So, and then it just, but he also kind of did too. Yeah, really, I was the one who took a loss there. I know. Because, yeah, we both kind of did go by, well, I mean, just like,

for me it was a nickname. Like my close friends, like, and like sister family, they'd call me Tay. But now we kind of had to lose that. and she's just TAY and I'm Taylor or boy Tay and girl Tay. Yeah. I don't know about that.

That sounds like your dolls. Like, I would like to order the boy T. G. T. Yeah, we have, we've gotten that. Or B T and G T as. Or just boy and girl. Or boy and girl. Okay, that's also taking it to a different level.

Yeah. Our friends will call us like, I'm just girl. I feel like. Even when we're not with him, they're like, girl, what do you want? And it's just, I don't know. I hope that you're both comfortable with your gender and sexual identity

because this could get really complicated. Yes, yes. Thankfully, we're good there. Okay. So the other thing that's Taylor adjacent, you dated Taylor Swift, which first of all is like everybody needs to know because I had forgotten this in history.

You dated Taylor Swift, but everybody needs to realize that was, another Taylor you dated. I know. There's been a lot of Taylor. Did she go buy a Taylor? Yeah. Yeah.

Were you Tay then? I mean, not really. No. So you were just both Taylor? Yes. Yes. And we did a movie together.

Taylor! Yeah. That's what we had to deal with on set all the time. Is it why you broke up? You know, looking back, probably was. And then I jumped right.

back to another one. Yeah, so you were already used to it. It was more of an adjustment for me. Yeah. I had practice. Yeah, he had practice with someone. You've never dated a Taylor. I have not dated a Taylor before my husband now.

Okay, this was the first for me. Okay, another question, because it's, I'm sorry, it just begs the question. Did you date someone between Taylor Swift and Miss Taylor? What's, I don't know the chronology? Oh, yeah. That was many, many moons ago. Many tailors ago. Many, been through a lot of Taylor's.

Okay, go. Well, you know what? That sounds weird now. Now you made it weird. Now you made it weird. Okay. Yeah, no, that was, yeah, yeah. Okay.

I'm still going to ask, and then I promise we'll talk about mental illness and also. Well, I got a couple other questions. So, Tay, I need to ask you a question. When did you know, you knew that he dated Taylor Swift? Oh, yeah. Like everyone but me was part of pop culture at that time. I mean. Yeah, I'm a big Swiss.

I grew up. Kay is a diehard Swifty. Yeah, I'm like one of the OG Swifty girls. She knows her track record. But I also, like Valentine's Day is one of my favorite movies. And that's the movie that they did together. So I did watch that movie. Okay, so this is a question that I'm asking as a person who is on television and in films and things like that.

And I just think it's, the whole thing is weird about celebrities. But this is interesting to me. because, like, I wonder for you, and I guess we could ask Jonathan as well, you know, as the non-public celebrity person, meaning as, like, the non-actor person, you know, was this like, oh, that's interesting. He dated someone else who's also really famous. Or was it just like, whatever, like, people date people. Because, like, that's like a big one also. Like, if Jonathan had dated Taylor Swift, I might be like, I don't even know what are we doing here? What do I, like, what do I, like, can I write you a? poem or are you going to want a song? Like, what? I don't always wear tassels and fun boots. Are you going to expect that? I would love to see you in some tassels. I feel like you could rock that. But like, was that, was that a thing of like, I'm a normal person? Like, you're a nurse, you know, like, and you were entering a whole different world. Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, I'm a pretty,

I'm a pretty chill person. So it wasn't as like, I wish I had to be a lot of, I wish I had to had a better answer, so it wasn't as like jarring, I feel like, as people would expect. But yeah, I mean, I definitely, you know, whenever I want to watch a movie or TV show that he's done, it's one of his exes is his co-star.

So he had a bad history of that. But, but I'm just kind of like, I have no beef towards anyone, so I'm just like, you know. She's like weirdly cool. Like I'm, I get like,

10 times more star-struck by people than Tay does. Right. Like I remember when we first started dating, we would be around, you know, very famous people. And I would like, you know, we just started dating. And I was like a little bit nervous to introduce her to, you know, some people. Because I'm like, you never know. You know, I don't know if she's going to start like freaking out or something.

And she's just like, literally like, yeah, what's up, Justin Bieber? Like, just could care or less. We had met him right when we had started dating. I think it was like our first date. We maybe sat next to him like at church or something. And we got in the car and he was like, so I was like, he was nice. And Taylor was like, that's it. And I was like, yeah.

And I knew like growing up, she was a diehard believer. So I was expecting some like crazy fandom reaction. But no, she's just cool as cucumber. We went to the Super Bowl before the pandemic. in early 2020. And that was in Miami, and that was a little bit of a surreal situation. We were in the Fox box,

because they were sponsoring it. And there was a handful of people that you normally see on television, and you had some version of a relationship with it. I find, though, that Miami gets so nervous in those, really any public situation, but especially celebrity-laid in public situations that she's like it was kind of managing her anxiety around it so i didn't have any

sort of space or opportunity to be starstruck you're like are you going to be okay and then you know jami fox rolled in and all of a sudden you know that was he's a pretty big uh deal in terms of uh just the movies and cultural uh influence he's had and um it more than anything is is more for me has been a little bit just a strange, surreal moment because all of a sudden you're like, oh, that person is there, and it takes a minute to register that they are who they are. But I find, you know, what I think Tay is saying is like,

it's really about are they a normal person or not, or do they interact? And sometimes they don't. They do the, I don't see anything outside of this periphery. My Ambialx breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor, doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine.

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And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention my ambiolics breakdown to help support the show. You don't exist. I find a lot of times that, you know, Jonathan thinks, and this is sort of leads to my first question for you, Taylor, like, a lot of times Jonathan wants me to be a lot more comfortable with my celebrity than I am, meaning like, oh, that person said hi to you. Like, go talk with them. Or like, go open up a conversation. And, you know, I think you can actually probably both speak to this, you know, for different kind of reasons. Let's start with you, Taylor. Like, what is your sort of, you know, at this point in your life, what's your relationship to fame, like to being recognizable that way?

Yeah, I'm that same way. We have the exact same partnership there because, yeah, I don't. Like, I always, I never, like, want to bother people. And I think maybe that comes from just going through what, like, I went through. And like, that's the last thing I ever want to be to somebody else. So I am overly, overly, like, I will never go up to anybody. And you're also just like a humble human. So I feel like a lot of the times, I'll be like, go say hi.

and he's like, they're not going to know who I am. I'm like, dude, they're going to freaking know who you are. Go say hi. He's like, they're not going to know. And then sure enough, like, the person ends up coming over to us and they're like, big fit. So that's his other thing. He's like, they're not going to know who I am. Yeah.

So I do get in my head about that. I never want to bother anybody when I am in those like social, you know, crazy rooms or places. Yeah. I feel like I get on my head and like insecure about it. And yeah, she's always the one like pushing me to go interact and mingle with people. And he's always happy that I did push him. Yes, that is 99% of the time. I want to know who the most famous person is that he thought wouldn't know him,

Tay and did. Easy. Well, this is most famous in the sense of most famous to you. To me. Yes. Right. Barry Sanders, who is a legendary football player for the Detroit Lions. Why would Barry Sanders have any idea who the teenage wolf from Twilight is?

I'm with you. I would be totally on Team Taylor and be like, he's not going to know him. He like has his jerseys and we were at a Lions game this past season and Taylor was freaking out. He was like, Barry's here. Barry's here. I was like, babe, you got to go say hi. like take a photo with him. He's not going to know who I am.

I'm like, this is your one opportunity. You need to go. And he ended up, like we ended up. I think his team came up and was like. I ended up, yes, I ended up saying, I'm not going up to Barry Sanders. So I left it. And then what happens is I get a tap on my shoulder

and some guy who is his agent is like, hey, um, Barry would love to meet you. Would that be okay? Wow. And I'm like, Barry who? And he like steps to the side and stuff. standing there right behind him with like his hands waiting is Barry Sanders. So funny.

And then he followed Taylor on Instagram and he was like, I can die happy now. Oh, man. Yeah. At like athletes. Yeah. Athletes are what does it for me. Yeah.

Like Caitlin Clark just followed me on Instagram and I almost passed out. Yeah. He literally, yeah, he was very excited about that one. Actors and actresses. I'm like, yeah. But. Yeah. For me, it's, I think, musicians.

and I'm deeply connected to lyrics and, you know, all the sadness. And so that's often a connection, which could be a reference to Taylor Swift, but it may not be. I would never go up to Taylor Swift in case anyone's curious. She would not know who I am. I tried to get her to follow me when I was on a show called Call Me Cat because she likes cats. But anyway, um... She does like Cat. How old were you when you were cast in the first of the Twilight saga?

16. And how long had you been acting before being cast? A bit. I started acting when I was like eight still living in Michigan. In four, two, three years, I would literally fly with like my mom or dad from Michigan to L.A. for a single audition, like a Burger King commercial, and then fly right back to Michigan. It helped and was only possible because my dad was a commercial airline pilot. But yeah, that was exhausting. I'm sure much more exhausting on my parents than me.

But after a few years of doing that, they like sat me down. And I mean, just amazing support. But they were like, if you want to keep doing this, we're going to have to move. move out to LA. We can't continue doing this from Michigan. Then, yeah, shortly after we moved out when I was 11, I did my first lead in a feature film when I was 12. And then that was a movie called Shark Boy and Lava Girl. Then right after that, I went in the Cheever by the Dozen, Two. And I thought things were like looking up. And I was like, wow, this is going to be easy. This is great. And then right as I was entering high school, I just hit a dry spell.

And I could not book anything to save my life. And going through school and being somewhat like bullied for being an actor. I just, in not being able to book anything else, I was this close to giving up and just being like, you know what? That was a fun thing to do when I was a kid, but I don't know if it's for me anymore. And right as I was like coming to that decision, I got this like screen test for actually two movies on the same day. I got a screen test for it was down to like three people for Journey to the Center of the Earth starring the Rock, big Disney movie. I was dying to get it. I was like, if I get this movie opposite the Rock for Disney,

This is going to save me. This is going to make my career. And this little film at the time, there was a smaller budget that was based off of books involving vampires. And I told my agents, I was like, I really want that rock movie. And they were like, yeah, but I mean, don't be so sure this other, this Twilight one. It has like some steam. People are talking about it. And I'm like, yeah, never heard of it.

and good news and bad news. Bad news. I didn't book Journey to the center of the earth, but I did get to Twilight. So you booked this film at 16. And, you know, over the course of the next stretch of years, this became, you know, the, you know, really the center of a career, you know, that no one could have planned,

meaning like you could have done that movie and like nobody would see it, it wouldn't be a thing, and they'd never make a second one, right? But this, it became a saga. It was a moment in our culture that you, you know, were one of the main faces of. And when I think about like this, you know, as Tay describes you, this like very good-hearted, you know, optimistic, it sounds like very, you know, kind of like positive person, you know, you land this role and it really does. It changes your life. It changes the whole perspective that you get to see your life through. And in particular, that kind of fame, I mean, you experienced an exceptional degree of fame to the point that you had, you know, a lack of movement, right? A lack of freedom. You know, it's like it gets really,

really big and then your life gets really, really small, right? What did that, you know, positive, hopeful, wanting to find the best. What did that kind person experience? What did that feel like? In the moment, in the moment, nothing, or I shouldn't say nothing, in the moment, just like, it was just fun. It was just a wild ride to be on. And, you know, I felt loved and appreciated. And, you know, I'm a people-pleasing personality. So, it felt good. But I think I was so young that it was hard for me to really accurately register what exactly was going on. It just, you were just thrown into this whirlwind that lasted years.

But yeah, I mean, while it was going on, it was great. But I think that is what developed me, like, placing value in the wrong things for me that only were going to end up, like, breaking my heart. Can you say more? Because, you know, obviously there's a lot of attention paid to the buffness that you acquired and, you know, sort of lent that role really, you know, lent itself to you growing with the role, as it were. Are you talking about that?

Are you talking about, I mean, all that? also you were worshipped as a sex symbol, you know? And people talked about you before you were 18 in ways that we don't talk about young girls and should not talk about young people. That became also like a huge part of this kind of fame. Is that sort of what you're talking about? Was that appealing to you?

Was there conflict around it? Yeah, I think, yeah, again, in the moment, I was totally fine with it because it was all positive. And, you know, I was playing. a role and that's what I needed to do to maintain playing this role. And it was great because it's a lot easier to maintain a body that looks like that when you're 17, 18, 19 years old. I mean, that's what I looked like when I was 17, 18 and 19. But yeah, then time goes by and this

wasn't until years later, but time goes by and I'm pushing 30 and it's much more difficult to look like that. And, you know, any time, like, I would just be embarrassed to like, go to the beach and like take my shirt off. Like, I had had that happen before where, you know, those pictures wind up online and it's just like people obliterate you because you don't look like you used to in the movies when you were 17, 18. And it really just had a massive effect on my self-esteem, which caused me to never want to leave my house and really just ended up rebelling against the gym. anything I used to.

So I feel like it only got worse. But yeah, I definitely suffered with body image issues in recent years. And I think, yeah, that probably was a massive part of it. I'm curious when we kind of talk about expectations, you know, what people expect of us. I don't know if you saw the documentary Quiet on set, which talks about the dark side of children's television in particular what occurred at Nickelodeon. But it wasn't just at Nickelodeon.

This was something that wasn't also just happening on sets. This was part of our culture, you know, in terms of what we expect of children or young people. And I wonder, just in light of that, you know, like what we know about that documentary, I wonder if you can speak a little bit about, did you feel any sort of pressure, either from the outside or even internally generated, you know, a certain pressure to behave a certain way or to live up to what the public wanted

or what the producers wanted, you know, like Kristen's very known for being kind of like rebellious and like that's like a brand thing that you can, you know. But I'm curious for you, did it feel like you, you know, I was an actor when I was that age? And even though I was in a very positive environment for the most part, of course you feel a need to be obedient. You know, like to be in a good mood or like, I don't need to go to the bathroom. I'll wait. I'm fine. I'm not hungry.

Like, I can do one more take. I'm curious just not for salacious reasons. Like, I'm not asking you for that reason, but I'm curious because there's a person in there. You know, you were a kid in an adult world. I'm curious what your experience was. Yeah. Yeah. I never, like you, like, you know, my sets, I never had anything, you know, strange or inappropriate, like, you know, we saw in that documentary.

But yeah, for sure. Like, I always, I think what it really did to me was I just always felt the need to be perfect. And a lot of that did come from within. I, you know, I all, like I grew up playing mini sports, you know, always having to, you know, please coaches and be the best version of myself. And I would, you know, push myself to be that every day. And yeah, in this industry, that's a tough thing because it's, it's impossible to be perfect. But yeah, I was, that was what I was trying to achieve. And, yeah, like I said, most of those expectations were set by myself. But it was, yeah, definitely... It's reinforced, though, by the environment, right? Yes, for sure.

And then you have a speed bump in the road, and then people ridicule you for it. And those moments were tough. This is a, I mean, a perfect opening. I like when you follow the list without having the list in front of you, Taylor. appreciate it. I want to talk to you, TAY, about perfection and the standards that others hold us to because part of your journey that, you know, led to your podcast and led to you, you know, speaking so openly is you are a nurse and you, you know, entered nursing essentially at the time when a global pandemic struck. And you ended up in a...

a position of tremendous responsibility, and I'm sure in many cases, authority, you know, in healthy ways, meaning that was your role. And what you experienced was what we were all experiencing, but your perspective, obviously very different. You were actively responsible for caring for people who were very, very ill and in many cases did not survive. And I wonder, you know, you've been so open about what that brings up for people who are in that position, the depression, the anxiety, the trauma. You know, you reached a point you've talked about where just like you couldn't even like just the protective gear, like it needed to come off, right? I wonder if you can talk about it in sort of the framing that Taylor just spoke about.

What did that expectation feel like in terms of your responsibilities? And what did it feel like in your body when it started crumbling? Like when it felt like you were crumbling. Yeah. I mean, I think nursing as a profession, I would encourage anyone to go into it. It's amazing. But the environment of the hospital and being a nurse in a hospital is you just like, you just go and you just do it. Like nurses are some of the strongest people I've ever met.

And like, you know, like we'll go shifts. Like, you know, sometimes I'll go like eight hours without going to the bathroom or eating. Like there would be. times where that would happen and you just, you just don't think about yourself. There's patients that, you know, they're dying. And if you don't care for them properly, you know, they could die. So it's a lot of like pressure in that regard because this is like life and death that we were talking about. So I felt so much pressure, especially as a new nurse, you know, to even get there earlier or to pick up extra shifts because we were short-staffed and I mean, everywhere still is short-staffed.

But, you know, I knew what it was like to be on the receiving end of being short-staffed and, you know, not even have enough people to take vitals. And so I would go in at like two, three in the morning just to go help and take vitals. And I think that's kind of the like the standard or I guess it's very easy to not have a boundary with nursing, especially during that time when it is like a pandemic and it's an influx. and you need to go in as much as you can. Yeah, when you get that call from your... My manager being like, we need help, please, can you come in?

And it's like my first night off in like four days because I ended up picking up an extra shift. Even just for a couple hours, like, can you come in? We need it. You know, what do you can do? Say no. Yeah. That's what you were dealing with.

Yeah. Yeah, it was a lot of that. Not knowing like how to properly put that boundary there, especially when it is during the pandemic. And you're like, am I being selfish by putting this boundary here or is this something that I actually do need to do? And I think my lack of boundary knowledge is, you know, a big reason why myself and many other nurses got so burnt out from the pandemic.

Because like you can't, I can't prepare you for something like that. Like it was probably one of the hardest things I'll ever have to go through. Hopefully. Hopefully I don't have to go through much worse than that. I also, I want to be clear, I'm not comparing, obviously, nursing during pandemic to being, you know, a sex symbol. What I was interested in which I think you both spoke to, you know, in a way that I think will make sense to a lot of people is no matter what situation we find ourselves in, right? Whatever pressure we put on ourselves and whatever stuff we come to that situation with, that's going to impact how it impacts us, right? the follow-up question I had is I'm curious about your relationship because I'm curious where

getting it right fits in. I'm curious, you know, what each of your respective kind of ways that you communicate, like, you know, what are your love languages? Do those line up? And do you feel like these aspects of the other parts of your lives, you know, have an impact on then how you relate with each other. Those are great questions. I think it's cool. We've, I mean, as of recently, you know, we got married a little over a year ago and people are always like, how's the first year of marriage? Like, you're still holding on? And we're like, great. Like, no complaints here. But I think it's because, I mean, we've been together for like, what, six, seven, somewhere in there, six and a half, somewhere in there years. We've been together a while. And we've been through a lot of

life together. And, you know, I think going through COVID as, you know, even if I wasn't working, just as a couple, you know, is a task on its own. But then, you know, put on top of that, me working. We've definitely been through a decent amount of life together and had to learn how the other communicates. And so I feel like we've kind of got that somewhat figured out now, which is nice. Yeah.

We balance each other out very well. Because we are, we're similar in a lot of ways, but we are different in ways. But I think the balance is what has helped us. We have very different love languages. So, you know, figuring out how to, you know, be there for her love languages and her be there for mine is. Yeah. It does take some thinking. And communication too.

Because like, you know, if we get, you know, in an argument or, you know, we're in a conversation, Taylor, like, knows his emotions and he knows them right now. And he's like, he's, like, he knows what he wants. And he's like very clear. And I'm like, my head's spinning. I need to think about this. And like, we'll talk tomorrow. Like, that's how I process things. And so when we first started dating, Taylor was like, well, no, tell me.

And I'm like, well, no, I don't know. I can't even tell you what my last name is right now because I'm so flustered. Just because that's how, like, I process. I sleep on it. And then I have full clarity. or like, you know, I take, I take an hour and I'm like fine. I don't like that. I'm just going to tell you that.

I don't like that at all. I don't want that. I'm with Taylor. I don't have, I don't want to wait overnight. I want to think about what you're thinking about while you're sleeping. What do you mean? Jonathan? Sometimes it takes a minute to digest.

Shut up. No it doesn't. You thinking that for all those people who are super certain of themselves in the moment, I do think that taking a beat, digesting, sleeping does change how certain you are of something, even if you are supposedly clear. Okay, so I'm going to call on Taylor here to give me some dude support because not only did you just say that you need time, you just cast doubt about those of us who don't need time. He's like, your clarity will change.

Exactly. That is so rude. Well, I was trying to be really nice about it. What I was trying to say is that sometimes people, and I don't know about Taylor, I think he's probably very clear. But sometimes you might get a little bit hot. And maybe I need to sleep on it. And rush to a decision or a conclusion. about how you feel and in time

you have been known to soften a little bit to relax to maybe see multiple sides of a situation and that certainty that you may have had

in the moment can lighten potentially. Here's what I'm hearing and I need Taylor and Tateaway and what I'm hearing is if I'm from the Midwest and I'm certain about my feelings,

I'm allowed to say them. If I'm not from the Midwest, you don't like what I say. I have to sleep on it so that I forget why I was upset and you put me in my place because that's what people do to women. I feel a little bit miscategorized. Okay. But in all seriousness, so Tay, I do want to ask you, as a woman who does not understand what you just said, is that, was there a, was there a time in your life where you felt like you had to like, you know, just like react? Or do you find that you just get flustered by conflict and you can't react and just need time to process? I think I do. I think I've always been like that. I think also in like past relationships,

I've never had like my opinion has ever been asked or I've never like, like, my opinion hasn't been like valued, so to say. So when, you know, we're talking, Taylor like actually like wants to genuinely wants to know what I feel about the situation. And I'm like, I just don't know because I'm just, I'm also like a very indecisive person. So it like takes me a second to like figure out like what I actually do want. And I also think because I, the way I am is, you know, if someone does something, I'm like, I'm like always the devil's advocate and I always like see things from a better perspective. And so that is how I am too.

So I think those two together may be dealt. They mesh well in the sense of we're opposites and we balance each other out. Yeah. Yeah. The other side of it is you've got to figure those moments out. Yeah. But I feel like we've done that. Like I now know if we're wanting to have a conversation and figure something out that we may just go nowhere.

We might just be sitting here spinning our wheels if I don't. give her time to process and figure out what exactly she is feeling. And as difficult as that is sometimes, you know, you just kind of realize it's the smartest thing to do. Because also I feel like sometimes, you know, when we first started dating, he would be like, well, no, what do you feel? Like, what's, like, tell me. And then I would say something. And then it would just make the conversation even worse because, like, I didn't, I didn't, like, I just said something. And then it would spiral it even worse. And now we're like, okay, let's just figure it out.

It's not necessarily in the morning sometimes. I feel like I've gotten a little quicker at my processing time because I know you're not. I know you're genuinely wanting. Wait, you mean you say I need to sleep on it and you don't wake up like awake in his face? Like whenever you wake up, I'm ready to tell you. That's not what happens?

You make him wait to lunchtime? No, I'm saying sometimes that I, sometimes I don't need to fully sleep. Like if we're having a conversation midday, I'm a little bit. Like I can come to... Just give me my space. She's like her space.

God. I'm also like I'm an only child. I didn't come. I do love a nap. I'm an only child. I didn't come from my family that talked about conflict at all. So when Taylor is like, let's talk about it. I'm like, who, where, what?

So it's, it's been a little bit of a learning curve for me. But we're getting there. I hear a lot of positive. skills being practiced here that are very practical to a lot of people. So I appreciate how you're describing navigating that. And I think a lot of people can relate to not necessarily knowing exactly what they feel. I mean, I have suggested that Maim, who has been in therapy for many, many years, will quickly go to an explanation of something. And then I'm like, well, what's actually even more underneath it and that how we actually show up and how we feel can change even when we

start to be in relationship and communicate it. So it's like, you know, I'm wondering if you've ever had that experience where you're like, oh, discovering how you feel, then you talk about it. It goes into the combination of or the zone of the relationship that is created with the two people. But then that even can shift. Like just talking about it can then even shift to something else. So I don't know. Maim has said to me, I have a hard time necessarily picking one thing and being decisive. And so she'll be like, ah, let's make a decision right away. And sometimes I'm like, let's just like throw it into the pot and let it simmer for a while, turn it around and actually like not make a decision and see what happens.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or he's like, sometimes he'll just really want my opinion. Like stage coach, we're book in an Airbnb. and being for stagecoach. He's like, okay, have these four houses. There's this, this one's cool because of this and this and this.

And then he's like, which one do you like? I'm like, all of them, whatever you want. And he was like, no, but pick one. I don't care. He's like, no, but which one's your favorite? I don't have a favorite. They're all equal. So it's things like that sometimes where he's like, no, do you have one that you like?

I'm like, no, I don't care what everyone you like. She's very, very easy and go with the flow. And, you know, sometimes. Well, actually, I want to poke at that a little bit. because you've described yourself as indecisive. Is it that you don't care or that you don't know? That is the question. I would be...

I would probably... Maybe I just don't care. I feel like the majority of the time. You just don't care. Like, are there things that you're like, oh, I really like, I need this kind of English muffin? Like, are there things that you're particular about? I am particular about having things clean.

Yeah, that is true. I do like clean things. It's something that I don't, I think is undiagnosed, but I know quite a few nurses who have worked as nurses and have developed OCD tendencies from it. And I feel like I have not yet been diagnosed with that, but I find myself getting stuck in my head a lot with that. people will do something and I'm like,

I'll brush it off and be like, I don't care, whatever. If they want to act that way, whatever. And Taylor's like, no and wants justice. Yeah, somebody will like, if somebody like wrong does her, like what I feel like a lot of people would be like, that's not cool.

Like, why are you not? I find myself a lot being like, why aren't you more upset? Yeah. And she's always just like, you know, I don't care. I'm like, what? If I were you, I would be pissed off.

I would either never talk to that person again or go right up to their face and talk about it. If it's someone in my very close circle, then I will care. But I think if it's not one of five people. But then on the flip side, if someone does something to Taylor, then I'm like freaking mama bear.

I'm destroying them. So it's kind of for myself, I'm like, whatever. But if it's someone that I care for, then I'm like, see you later, Alligator. If this is a game that we're all playing at home, which is which Taylor are we, I'm having a hard time deciding which one I am. Right. Because I have times where I'm like very sort of laissez-faire and I don't care and things roll off my back.

And I'm like, Maim is like, you should be upset about something and you should set a boundary and talks to me about how I should, you know, what action I should take. And then on the other hand, if I'm looking at Airbnbs, I'm more this tailor, where I'm like, well, the beds are like this and it has this amenity, but it's this far away. And I go to Miami and I'm like, let's try and like process this together. She's like, I don't care, just pick one. I'm like, you can't just pick one. There are all these factors to consider. And she's just like, you know, for the pros and cons. Yeah. We need a detailed pros and cons list. We need an official meeting. We need a spreadsheet or some, like, we need to be in this together in some way. And when she dismisses it with not caring, what I hear is all of the ways that

I analyze and try to make the right choice for us so that we have the best outcome are not appreciated. Yeah. Yeah. I feel you there. Our personalities are confused. Well, I'm going to call you from now on. Yeah, exactly. You call Taylor and Tay and I will be on the phone and not talk about anything because we don't care. You guys will just be not caring together. There you go. But I do want to ask a little bit because I know that part of your interest, TAY in mental health does come from a bit of the way that you were raised in some of what you experienced. I wonder if you can talk a little bit about sort of, you know, your awareness of mental health. health challenges. You know, you've talked about, you know, growing up knowing people who were impacted by addiction and you had a friend commit suicide. Like, you've definitely experienced a lot of intensity in this arena. Can you talk a little bit about sort of what that was like growing up

and how you think it might impact, you know, maybe your personality? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was definitely surrounded by a lot of mental health struggles. Obviously, never, I never personally, I mean, maybe I never personally realized I dealt with it until, you know, after working in the hospital. But yeah, I had a lot of family members struggle with addiction, whether it was alcohol, like all the way to heroin. My cousin, who still is an on and off addict today. He almost lost his life twice. He was like full life support.

So I've just seen him go through a lot of stuff. And, you know, I remember thinking, I think the first time he was in the long time. hospital, I was probably like around the age of 10, maybe nine, eight around there. Full life support tubes, everything. And I remember leaving the hospital. And I like felt two things. One, I think that was the first time I ever felt sadness, like true, like heartache. Because I remember like my chest hurt really bad. I felt like my throat was hurting. Like it was, I felt like I had because he was intubated. I like felt like I was having like pains like for him. Like, it was a weird feeling that I had never had before, but the other part of me was like, why doesn't he just stop?

Like, why can he just, you know, why did he let himself get there? And I wasn't able to process, you know, what addiction was at that age. And then fast forward by, like, best guy friend in high school, he ended up, you know, having bipolar. And he was kind of like on and off meds trying to figure. things out, but he ended up taking his life during a manic episode. His bipolar, he had a very rough or interesting upbringing. He's actually raised by his aunt, who's his mom. The family's still super close.

We actually had them on the podcast, and they got to share his whole story. And I got to learn some stuff about him because in high school, we didn't know that he had bipolar disorder. I learned it after he had already. passed because he had developed it later on in life, which was, you know, something we just did not know. But after his passing and, you know, learning more about his story, that's kind of where my like passion for it started. I knew I really wanted to help people, which is, I think, why I got into nursing. I really loved, like, psych nursing too. That was one of my favorite

rotations. I'd love to like getting to work with kids during that rotation. So that was super awesome. But I think I've just been around it so much that I really, I really just have taken like a love for trying to learn more about it and help people with it. So was that sort of the the reason then for starting this podcast? Tell me about how that came about. Yeah. I think, I think working through the hospital and then developing my own mental. health struggles is kind of what really, because I had struggled with it, I was like, okay, I actually need to talk about this more because, you know, there's so many people dealing with it, not just health care workers. Like, everyone is having a rough time right now. This is

end of 2021. So the podcast, before there ever was a podcast, it was a little blog called Lemons by Tay, which is just like me, you know, sharing my thoughts, so wanting to just help people and share my story and try to give, you know, people a voice to. relate to. And then that turned into our nonprofit, the Lemons Foundation. And then I'd probably say middle to end of 2002 when we got married. I don't know why my brain decides to do new things when we're busy. But I do tend to do that. I do tend to do that. I did also hear that I'm supposed to, what did I hear on TikTok? I'm supposed to create something new based off of the clips and cycles. Anyways. Yes, a lot of newness. That's what I told you last night.

It said I'm creative and I'm supposed to do. Not just you, like people in general. Yes, yes, yes, yes, not just me. It was centered towards women with their cycle and the clips. And anyways, but I tend to dream of things in my sleep. And I woke up one day and I was like, hey, I think we need to start a podcast. I don't listen to podcast. I have no clue how to do it.

I don't know how we're going to do it, but we're going to do it. And he was like, have fun. And I was like, no, you're going to do it with me. He was like, oh, okay. interesting. I knew he would be hesitant to it because he does not like new things. But we filmed our first two episodes,

him interviewing me, interviewing him. And then he was like, okay, can I be your full-time co-host? And I was like, I knew you would want to do this. So that's kind of where, that's how we ended up getting to the podcast was all these little things. But I think it's cool because of my whole mental health journey

and then me finally going through it. going through, you know, therapy and different tools that I've helped me. And Taylor kind of at the same time, we both kind of went through our mental health journeys at the same time and got to grow in that together. And it's just kind of become a passion of ours that we've seen, you know, us work through as individuals and as a couple. That is something we're just passionate about sharing. Yeah, Taylor, maybe you can talk a little bit about sort of your side of it. You know, you've obviously touched on a lot of different aspects. And, you know, my feeling is like, throw fame at any human and you'll see all sorts of things surface, you know, that you might not

have seen before or even, you know, thought would, you know, would occur for you. Can you talk a bit? I mean, I know that there was, you know, kind of a stretch of about a decade, you know, where you sort of took some time outside of, you know, wanting to leave your house or having, you know, sort of this notion of, I don't want to say a threat, but, you know, of something kind of looming just outside of what felt safe. Can you talk a little bit about sort of your mental health journey as you see it and then sort of what it's been like to, you know, to get to talk about it in this arena on your podcast? Yeah. Yeah. For me, growing up, I wasn't surrounded by many much mental health struggles in my life. But I think it was once a once.

I took a step back from the industry is when things really, like, seemed to hit. I think, you know, I started at a very young age and it was just go, go, go, put your head down and, you know, keep going. And then I think once I finally was a little bit burned out and just feeling like I, you know, missed out on some normal aspects of life that I wanted to kind of go. back and just experience. I think that is when, you know, I started to struggle. And, yeah, thankfully, it was around the same time that we were meeting.

So I think we just both, I mean, I started to notice, TAY, just acting differently. and sometimes just like on random days just being a little sad. And I remember one day I asked her, I was like, are you okay? And she was like, yeah, I'm fine, yeah. And I was like, no, but like, are you really okay? And it just like hit her. And she started to think about it. And I mean, that's what opened up.

her mind to maybe there's something going on deeper. What were you picking up on? Can you talk about it? What were you picking up on? We're in the car one day, driving. Yeah, it was just, you know, I had worked, I'd come home from a night shift. I don't know. I think, I think looking back on it in hindsight, and once I removed myself, I think that's where we, you know, for late, even though it's two completely different fields, when I removed myself from the hospital, all of the feelings sunk in of what I was actually feeling.

Like I went into a depressive state. I was dissociating really bad. I felt very numb. Like all of those things hit me once I left. And not to say that you went through those things, but we both took a step back from our respective industries. And that was when we were both like,

oh, okay, well, now I can actually process how I'm feeling. But so at the time, I think I was just really dissociated and it was just, you know, keeping my head down, grinding the same thing you were. I was picking up those extra shifts, doing what I could. Yeah, and I just, I think I felt, I think I felt sad during that time, but I think it was masked by being tired because I was working night shift.

And it was an adjustment on my body, which my body did not like. So I think that's, I think that is what it was. Like I'm normally, normally like a happy person. Yeah. I would say it was all of that and also maybe the biggest part. I sense that you just were getting and going through the days without feeling too much. Whether it was positive or negative. Yeah.

It just, you always were just here. And I think that is what I noticed was a little different. It's like the highs weren't there and the lows weren't there. When I know she's sad, she wouldn't really let herself. get too sad. She just always was here. And I think that is when I started like picking up on, you know, is, are you really okay? Like, you know, I would ask her at the end of each shift and, you know, are you okay, you know, just about the last 24 hours. But this was the first time that I was asking like, no, not like last night's shift like in life. Like right now, are you okay?

And I think it was eye-opening for me too. So we both, we both. That was the first time I think either one of us had been asked or heard that question. That was never like a, no one's ever asked me. You know, I feel like now it's so easy to consider mental health is such a talked about thing now. It's like, you know, like how are you doing like on like at a deeper level? But I mean, even just like a couple of years ago, I feel like that wasn't like a deep, you know, how are you doing? wasn't really a thing.

Yeah. The conversation has definitely changed in the last few years. And what you're describing is so common, people are just getting by. They're compartmentalizing what they're feeling in order to show up at work, in order to get through the day. And you just do that.

And then you try to rest and try to do it again. And over time, we begin to reduce, our emotional register. So you do keep the highs lower and the lows get a little bit lower and we start to get stuck there. And then we forget that we've done the compartmentalization

and we just start to feel numb. So really powerful that you were both able to sort of put your finger on the pulse of each other and say like, wait a second, what's that check in? Because it requires someone else to reflect back and say, wait a second, what's really going on here?

because you're not the person who I'm used to seeing. I also want the story to be that Taylor can just sense things about people. Like, I want him to walk around the street and be like, that person's not okay. They need something. They need a hug. The discernment that he has on people and their character and, like, their, what's the word?

Like, their intention behind things, like, he has very good discernment. But he doesn't always share his, like, opinion. thoughts with his, with people. He'll share them with me, obviously. But, you know, if our friends are like asking advice on something. Where does that come from, Taylor? Like, are either of your parents like this? I think you have a superpower and we just didn't know it. He definitely does. That's what, that was the whole reason why I wanted him to do the podcast with me because he's so wise beyond his years. And like, he just, like, when he opens his mouth, he just spews out wisdom. I'm like, yes yeah i don't i don't know i take it as a compliment but yeah i don't it's it's tough for me to

yeah just start throwing my opinion at people um but yeah it has been doing the podcast has helped a lot um it i mean we say i'm sure i'm sure you both feel the same maybe but we started the podcast hoping that we could, you know, help a few people out there that might listen. Never did I think that it would end up being good for me personally. And it really has just been, it's been free therapy for us. It's been eye-opening, having conversations with our guests or experts or whoever it is and really just like understand teaching me.

about myself and, you know, why I maybe do some things or tick a certain way. So that's been the, I don't want to say the greatest gift, but the most unexpected, for sure from the podcast. I want to hear from each of you. What's your favorite thing that you've learned on your podcast about mental health? I mean, I would probably go straight to Dr. Amen. we've had we've had him on twice and he was actually our first repeat guest um first and only so first and only yeah um and yeah i mean he just he he says so many things that have opened my

eyes and really like put things into place for me i'm trying to remember a specific one right now you like the you like he has like so many little sayings but i know you like the one that you like he has like so many little sayings, but I know you like the one of waking up. I mean, like, today's going to be a good day, like going into it with a positive intention. Yeah. He really like speaks into like your brain. Like you need to tell your brain. Your brain needs to tell you at the start of every day because it's just the brain is so powerful. Like so if you can just wake up each morning and tell yourself, he's like, I know it sounds silly. I know it sounds really. ridiculous. But if you can just wake up in the morning and before you roll out of bed, tell

yourself, today is going to be a good day. Just getting that out there and getting it in your brain will affect how you go about your day and it just will, it will be with you. If you, if the first thing you think is, ugh, like I got this to do today and I got this to do and, uh, you know, this happened yesterday and whatever, that's going to also affect how you go about your day. And I have noticed it. I've told myself sometimes when I wake up in the morning, not always,

but sometimes I've just been like, wow, like I pull the curtain back. I'm like, it's beautiful outside. You know, I'm thankful. I get to go downstairs and hug my wife and our dogs. and yeah, today's going to be a good day. I typically always do have a good day. And Tay, what about you?

I think mine is an analogy that Lindsay Vaughn told us on an episode of, you know, her whole thing is if you, you know, tear, you know, your ACL, you'll go have surgery on it, you'll go do your physical therapy, you'll do these exercises, you'll do this, this, this, whatever it is. And we need to be treating our brains the same way. You know, if I break my arm, I'm not just, you know, I'm going to go to the doctor. I'm going to get it fixed. I'm going to get pins in it.

I'm going to get a cast on. And then I'm going to go do rehab and the therapy that I need to for it. And we need to be doing that same thing for our brain when our brain, you know, isn't working properly. We got to take those same steps in order to, you know, Help heal it. Why are we not treating one of, if not the most important organ in our body? Yeah. The same way we're, you know, treating our Achilles tendon.

Yeah. Like, it's just a really, like, put things into place for us where it was just like, yeah, what? When you put it in layman's terms like that, it's like a no-brainer. Yeah, obviously. Why wouldn't I, you know, eat the right foods? It's like go to therapy, go, you know, not even therapy, things that you can do at home. Why wouldn't I get enough sleep, eat healthy food, meditate, do affirmations, pray, whatever it is. Like, why wouldn't I be doing those things that are going to better my brain?

Yeah. And what is each of your favorite tool? You know, you just listed a bunch of things. Do you have a favorite one? Mine's exercise. Yeah. Yeah, I can just tell for sure. When I am going through a rough patch, I'm not exercising.

And as soon as I start to get back consistent with that, whatever it is, going to the gym or just getting outside, going for, you know, walks, runs, that I notice my life and my outlook on life immediately start to change. So, yeah, I think exercise would be probably the biggest for me. Exercise is one of those things that, you know, there's been some really, really compelling studies where exercise goes, you know, toe to toe with SSRIs in terms of treating symptoms of depression. And, you know, I like to point out that there are certain types of depression where you're not getting out of bed to exercise. That's like a different level. But for people who have a certain level of depression or for people who are prone to it, there's some unbelievable research. showing that literally the endorphins, the adrenaline, like all of that,

can do very, very miraculous things for your mental health. And it may not be true for everyone. Obviously, you have to find something that you love and something that, you know, can keep your interest. But the fact is, you know, that's, you're not just exercising your body or your muscles. You're not just like staying fit. It's actually encouraging chemicals to flow through your body that is sort of it allows you to naturally tap into some of those anti-depressive features of that exercise.

And Tay, what about you? What's your favorite, your favorite tool? Yeah. I mean, I love going to therapy. So there's that, but one that is, you know, accessible for everyone. I have a very loud brain that doesn't turn off. So things that can kind of hyper-focused my brain on things, gives it rest in a weird way. So like, you know, like reorganizing something or, you know, I just learn how to make ficasha bread and like, like, like things that isn't, you know, sitting, but things that are like kind of like a hyper-focused thing, that that is, you know, I love Taylor. Whenever I go organizing, he's like, that's not rest. I'm like, but it is rest for my, like it just turns off a side of my brain that is really loud, I feel like.

In it, I just, it's quiet when I do stuff like that. So little things like, you know, organizing I love. But cooking recently has been a fun one. Yeah, I get that because cooking is that for me. Yeah, you love. I'm getting into the exercise thing. I danced my whole life, so I feel like I haven't learned to love to exercise again yet. Yeah.

I think I kind of like built up a little wall to it. Same. But he is really good at getting me to go. We worked out this morning and I feel great today. So I know it's there. It's just I'm learning to love it again. Yeah. I don't always love it.

I actually, yeah. But I do love and notice deeply the way that it makes me feel. It's so much more, not my physical body, my mental. Yeah. Yeah, I do want to ask before we let you go, I do want to ask about the, I do want to ask about your physical body. I just said it. But the reason that I want to ask about your physical body is, you know, you've talked about how much attention was paid, you know, to what your body didn't look like and then what it did look like. And obviously this was, I mean, I, you know, seen some of the movies like it's a big deal, like it's a thing.

And, you know, meaning it's, it is a focal point, you know, of many aspects of the story that you're telling as a character. I wonder, what is your relationship like with your body now? what is it like to also be a grown-up, you know, as you said, our bodies do different things when we're older. Does working out feel like a recreation of some of that, you know, so I don't want to use trauma, but a recreation of some of that conflict or does it feel completely separate? What does it feel like now to have, you know, to be in a relationship with your body? Yeah. I'm much, much better mentally with my body.

my body than I used to be, but I'm not near perfect. I still, I still struggle with it. I still, I'm very hard on myself and it does affect me, but I have made great strides over the last few years in my outlook on it. And just, it really is like just having to rebuild the way my mind works, where I just, I need to care less about what people think of me and my body and care more about how me, myself is feeling. and not just physically when I'm naked looking in the mirror, but how I feel. So it has, it's taken rewiring of that thought process, which has been difficult.

It's been cool because I feel like I've gotten to witness this through, like, through Taylor over the years of like, you know, I was with him, like, you know, when he decided he didn't want to leave the house, like we were together. Like I was with him when he was, you know, feeling too embarrassed to go out. And I, you know, like that to now someone, you know, he's learned, I think he's, it's cool because he's learned to love himself and kind of put value in different things. And it's, I love, I love bragging about him in this regard because it's been really cool to watch his brain shift over the past few years. How has it happened? I'm curious.

Is this something you like, worked on in therapy? Is it like, did you read a book? Like, how do you rewire that? I know. That is a good... I feel like... I feel like time. And I think...

I think him... I mean, this is my observation on the situation and living it next to you. But I think also him removing himself, like, from the industry and being with someone that has literally nothing to do with anything of the industry. Like, that was the first time you ever, like, I think you just kind of shifted, like, where, like, the value was. And I think, I think just over, like throughout that, you kind of learned to be like, yeah, I am, I am cool.

I do love myself. Like, I think that's kind of what the process was. Yeah, I agree. I think it definitely just took time. And yeah, I think, I think taking a step back and not being, you know, constantly judged each, you know, in every day or each and every project or whatever, I think that was helpful. also community and surrounding yourself with people. That genuinely love you for the human that you are on the inside. Yeah.

Not for the celebrity. Yeah. I think that was definitely a major part of rewiring the way that I thought about myself. I have to ask because, you know, obviously this is the industry that I also was raised in and, you know, revolve in. Is it possible to be? in Hollywood and not hate your body? You're never you're never going to be perfect.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think as long as you... I have to leave. I come live with you now. I think you just, as long as you are okay and strong enough to know that no matter whether you're too skinny,

too fat, too what? whatever, there's always going to be a side of it that people are tearing down. So I think you just, for me, it's just, I needed to just know that. And now, like, it's still, you know, seeing mean comments and opinions or whatever, it's still maybe will, we'll sting a little bit, but not nearly as much because I just, I know that now. I know there's no version of pleasing everyone and, you know, being perfect. Somebody's always going to find a way.

Yeah. Tate, do you think his body's perfect? Oh, yeah. That's how that matters. I love him. You two are my two favorite tailors, I just have to say. Thank you. It's really so nice to see how you interact and how you support each other.

Thank you very much. Can I do a quick rapid fire with both of you? Yeah. Yeah. Rapid fire. Breakdown style with Taylor and Tay. What was your mother right about? Everything.

Good answer. There it is. Is that your belief or is that what you think she believes? Good question. She's listening. Mom, you're right. You were always right. Sorry, Mom, but not cooking.

So let me move on from that. She knows. She knows it. Yeah, other than cooking, my mom is a saint. I mean, yeah, an actual saint. From the Lord above. Just the sweetest person ever. So I will say caring, like just caring for us or anyone.

Okay. What was your father right about? Probably something with taxes. You said, rap. The rapid fire answers that my brain gives are just, I don't know. Yeah. I'm surprised you haven't asked to take a nap. I said a fireplace when we were on the sick of giraffe in a fireplace, which she was on our podcast.

That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, mine I would, yeah, either numbers, something numbers, finances or advice. Yeah. Location that promotes your best mental health. outside. Yeah, I'm trying to think.

Nature. Sun. Yeah. Do you have a mantra or a saying that you like? I always tell myself like, like I'm bigger than my anxiety. It's going to pass. Like, you're fine.

It's just your brain. Let it pass. So little things like that are, you know, say things that I say to myself when I'm feeling anxious or panicky. Yeah. I actually, yeah, I actually do have one. And I thought about it. maybe day before yesterday.

On one of my, I don't know if it's a full mantra, but it's two words. But on a coffee mug of ours that we have, it says love big. And every time I pull that coffee mug, it makes me smile. Just because nothing brings me greater joy in life

than loving people. If I'm ever down, I mean, it's just, I don't know. I just, I love people. And I just think loving, big, loving, massive, there's no greater way to cure anything than love. It's beautiful. Who's been your best spiritual teacher?

My first response was to say my therapist. I want someone to say Justin Bieber right now. You have to say Justin Bieber, because you were hanging out with him in church. No, mine, mine would probably be my mom. Yeah. Yeah.

Moment of best intuition. Night that I met you. Oh, brother. Oh, that's sweet. Gonna happen. You said, that one. I said, pick me, please. That's very sweet.

I'm going to take that. Tay, can you top that? Oh, nope. No. There's no topping that one. putting the draft in the fireplace. No, it was not the giraffe. The fireplace.

Who are you most competitive with? Myself. Myself, for sure. Okay. And last question. What do you know to be true? That whatever is going on will pass. I'll go with love conquers all.

Beautiful. Tay, you said something about dreaming the podcast and that you dream things. And I can't end this interview before. hearing what else have you dreamed up and have you brought it into existence? I have done a few things. The nonprofit was a dream. I woke up and I said, I'm going to start a nonprofit. I didn't have any intention of doing that. And I did that and that's been one of my favorite things. And it's the Lemons Foundation, just to be clear. Yeah, same thing with the podcast. I have a few things that are in there. I'm trying to

figure out how you start dreaming about which Airbnb you want. Yeah, her dreams are powerful. So I got to figure out how to get that in there. Get the Airbnb in there? Yeah, you know, or wanting to talk about things, you know, right away. Yeah, we're getting there. Yeah. We're getting there.

The podcast is The Squeeze, and it's really been so much fun talking to you. I hope people will check out my episode of your podcast, and now you've been on our podcast. It's really, really a pleasure to talk to you and check out the squeeze. And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have, we'll see you next time. It's my, Bialyx breakdown.

She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fiction. And now she's going to break down. I'm going to risk being that guy. Taylor, have you tried pickleball by any change? Love. Love.

Tate, do you also play pickleball? Okay. Yes, but not. That's a no. That's a no. I can tell it to know. Taylor and his friends that, you know, are, play tennis and are, like, athletes.

I am not allowed to play because they get really competitive. But we have friends that I can play with. I'm so competitive, Jonathan doesn't let me play with other people. Jonathan also does not enjoy himself. unless it is like cutthroat people at his level or better. He does not know how to just like play for fun, like play with my kid who like isn't super good but wants to learn. It's like it's a whole other level.

This is a couple's podcast that needs to happen about the challenges that come up with pickleball and the way that it is dividing our nation. I don't mind going and playing pickleball with my name with her kids. Thanks. It's just not the same as playing. at like a 404.5 level where it's super aggressive and like that level of intensity, you know, it's not the same as going and connecting and having fun. And I need both of those

things. I'll tear someone's face off, but I also know when children need to learn and want to engage with adults. Love and pickleball conquer all.