Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - The Holistic Approach to Living

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

Drs. Alona Pulde & Matthew Lederman (WeHeal Co-Founders) break down practical ways to combine eastern & western medicine, lifestyle medicine, and nonviolent communication into a holistic approach to improve mental and overall wellness. They take us through their personal evolution toward incorporating self-care, play, and connection into wellness regimens, the importance of checking in with yourself, and what’s not working in the conventional model of primary care. Matthew and Alona explain how to cultivate nonviolent communication to live authentically and benefit your physical health. They also discuss the importance of providing kids with the vocabulary to express their needs and ways to balance your needs with your child’s. Drs. Alona Pulde & Matthew Lederman's new book, Wellness to Wonderful:  https://weheal.health/wellness-to-wonderful/ BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nonviolent communication is the foundation of supporting connection, right? And that's how you show up and how you communicate what's going on inside of you in a way that's authentic and brings you closer together. So a lot of times people have to decide between, I want to stay in connection with you. So I'm going to be inauthentic and go into a state of artificial harmony. It's not real harmony. It's artificial harmony because I'm suppressing my value or my feelings. to keep you connected. Non-violent communication is one of the best ways

we've learned how to create authenticity and compassionate authenticity and bring us closer together when I share with you what's alive and me, and I can hear what's going on with you and not take it personally and bring, and then all of a sudden we build this trust and deeper connection.

The thing that most resonates with me is the consciousness that it embeds, which is a needs-based consciousness. And that's where that authenticity, tapping into authenticity, authenticity is so important to allow us to connect to what are we needing. What needs are we looking to have met in this moment? And so many people do their day-to-day, not connecting to that sense of authenticity,

not connecting to those needs, and having so many unmet needs, that it results in a scarcity mentality, it results in constriction, and it results in attaching to strategies that you mentioned, you know, some of the more well-knit, well, I need to get enough money, and I need to get a bigger house, and I need to get, and I need, and I need to get, to get, to get, or I need to-do, to-do, or I need to do, to-do, to-do, versus I need to connect to what I am actually needing, and what are all the strategies that could meet those needs. It's my and Bealics breakdown. She's going to break it down for you, because, you know, she knows a thing or two.

And now she's going to break down. Mine B'Bialack. Alex, breakdown is supported by Cat's Pride. When it comes to choosing cat litter, our go-to is lightweight litter by Cat's Pride. It makes me feel like I'm working smarter, not harder, when you're carrying fur, in my case, three cats.

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And today, we're going to break down how to go from wellness to wonderful. And in case you're wondering what that means, many of us know the things we're supposed to do to be well, right? We know about the foods we're supposed to eat and like exercise and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But doctors Alona Poldy and Matthew Letterman, they are the people who brought you kind of the entire Forks Over Knives world. They've written six books.

They have written this new book, Wellness to Wonderful, Nine Pillars for Living, healthier, longer, and with greater joy. And what this book has done, it takes all of the information that they are already known for and that they have already gathered in the fields of understanding nutrition, understanding the role of exercise, understanding the ways that we know we're supposed to take care of our bodies, and they take it to the next level because, as they themselves describe, they were doing all those things and still not feeling good, still not having the kind of. kind of relationships they wanted with their kids, with each other. This book is a holistic

approach to understanding what all the things are that we all need to be mindful of right now as we try and really live our best lives. And it might sound overambitious, but if any two people can do it, it's these two. I'm very excited to welcome Alona and Matthew to the breakdown so that we can learn how to go from wellness to wonderful. And there are definitely some really good shortcuts here and some really great information about the work that we all need to start putting in. So welcome Alona and Matthew. Break it down. Ah, great to see you, Maya. Yes, wonderful.

So we probably should, in full disclosure, Alona, tell people that we grew up on the same block. We did. Neighbors. We were neighbors. I was close with your brother because we were the same age, but you were the big sister on the block. And so that's actually not how we connected with all the incredible work that you and Matthew do. But I did want people to know that I biked by your house probably for your entire childhood more often than was necessary. But thank you so much for being here. And, you know, as I spoke about in the intro, you know, the two of you have been like tremendous pioneers in so many aspects of the wellness world. But I do want to talk about your new book, Wellness to Wonderful, Nine Pillars for Living Healthier, Longer, and with Greater Joy, which looks like this.

You know, you're very well known for really being at the forefront of a huge nutritional kind of, awakening and revolution with forks over knives and that entire kind of universe that, you know, for those of us who are plant-based, before it was called plant-based, the work that you did and continue to do in the field of nutrition is incredibly important with, you know, this emphasis towards leaning away from relying on processed foods, relying on, you know, meals solely based and focused around animal byproducts. However, this book is a much more holistic view on sort of everything about our human experience, not just from the food we eat, but the way we think, the way we live. Can you talk about, I'm very curious about the personal evolution

that went on as you shifted from the Forks Over Knives world to wellness to one. wonderful. Yeah, I can share my experience and then let Matt go ahead and share his. I think one of the things that I really enjoy in my personal and professional relationship with Matt is a desire to grow and to constantly be kind of seeking, you know, how do we optimize our lives? How do we improve our health and well-being? How do we take this life and live it? it to the fullest. And nutrition is and will always be fundamental in our lives. But I noticed, you know, even with nutrition and exercising and aiming to get enough sleep, it wasn't enough. Even, you know, meditating and watching my stress and I still woke up feeling tired and I still

found myself in survival mode and, and, you know, searching for what else? And I think that is what we talk about in wellness to wonderful and what we kind of came about describing as this state of living, life is wonderful, is showing up in our lives in authenticity to ourselves in a way that we can relate to ourselves and to the world around us in a way that allows us to experience life in its fullest. Matthew, do you want to add anything? I can't top that. Well, I guess, you know, for those of us who are not even at, you know, a full incorporation

of all the things that you mentioned, right? meaning I'm still on my learning to have a regular meditation practice journey. You know, I'm still, I'm still struggling with sleep and, you know, being consistent in the ways that I know actually make a difference about it. Like, I'm still struggling with those things. So the question that I have for you is when you are doing, you know, all the things that you mention, if you had to say, like, what is that missing piece? What, what are you getting at?

And obviously, I recommend people buy the book and learn about these nine pillars. But if you can sort of give us sort of the cliff notes, like, you know, it's not like, surprise, the secret is God. That's not what this book is about. The book could be about many kind of, you know, magic pills, but that's also not what it's about. What does it actually look like? So we have nine pillars at the center is self. And we talk about connection to self in the present moment. and learning how to check into what's going on inside of you,

and then through that discerning where what needs are up in that moment, and then identifying strategies that will meet the most of your needs as possible with the least cost. Right? So you want to be as effective as possible and at least costly. And through the nine pillars, we give people, it's almost like something you can keep, you tend to regularly. It's not like you get there and you're done. This is a path and an awareness. And like I was telling you know, last week when we were all hands on deck getting

all sorts of promotional stuff out. And I said, oh, my pillar is a way out of whack. You know, so it's not like we're living it all the time, but I now have a framework where I can check in and say, oh, and then what needs the most attention for me? You know, it was actually connection to myself because I was all in my head and like do, do, do, do, do? And I'm like, hey, my body's screaming, Matt, you need a little self-care now. And when I was able to stop and go back to those pillars, I was able to identify when I get off the path towards Wonderful and then have a framework to get me back on the path. It's not

about being on the path at all times. And that, to me, is the secret, is knowing what those pillars are, and then having the ability to discern and then strategies to get back on the path. Now, there are obviously many, many books in the universe and also, many resources on the internet. And, you know, there's stuff all over that people are seeking. You know, we're at a place where a lot of people are seeking. And I think for our listeners who are tuning in now, they're listening because, like, they're seeking.

And that's the kind of, you know, feedback that we get from our audience. And, you know, I think that one of the things that I really love about your approach and and also this book is a lot of us piecemeal what we're doing. You know, we have like this way that we eat or we follow this Instagram account to learn about this aspect of sleep or, you know, we learn to meditate over here. But what I like is that you are presenting it in this book in one place so that it really is kind of a reference manual for all of these pillars. and also you're you're making all of the things work together.

And I think, you know, obviously there's a lot of respect that many have for those of you in the medical field, right? Those of you who carry those degrees. However, you also both have kind of gone above and beyond in terms of your credentials and your curiosity and the array of specialists, you know, even that I was looking through the quotes and the support for your book. First of all, I found, well, someone who's literally quoted in my dissertation, first of all. But Alan Gordon, who we've had on the podcast, is one of the people in this book. And other people whose services I have acquired are in this book. And so I didn't

even realize how much of the intersection of the kind of mind-body and holistic world you have incorporated into this book. I wonder if you could speak to sort of, was this something you had to piece together, or did it come from, you know, kind of a personal exploration that you then started putting together? Like, how do you approach to say, we have figured out, or we think we've figured out a really good way to holistically approach living? I think it's a question that we ask ourselves, and one of the reasons that the title is called Wellness to Wonderful. is, you know, I often think, like, in a world of infinite possibilities, why can't my life be wonderful? But then what would it take from my life to be wonderful? Right. And that's how we

identified these nine pillars. And each of those was, you know, it started with nutrition. And then, well, we can't just have your nutrition. We got to have some movement. And with the movement is sleep. And with sleep is, you know, self-care. And then it moved to, play, which is such an important aspect in contributing to making life wonderful and so deficient, I think, in the lives of so many, including my own until that came to my awareness. You know, and then the importance of connection, connection to ourselves and to the world around us. It was, I'd love to say that, you know, we came up with all of this and we're brilliant, but we're actually, we stand on the shoulders of all of these experts.

And I think of it almost as we're sort of the primary care, but we're almost like primary care 2.0 where we're pulling all of these pieces together that are missing from conventional primary care. And then there's experts in each of these fields. And we're sort of bringing all together all of these specialists. We know enough to get people started. And then if they really need to dig in, we can then get them to specialists. And that's what's really cool about the bringing all these different modalities. And the way we stumble across it is through.

our own experience, right? So, I mean, I talk about it in the book, my personal experience with back pain that was, I had the quote-unquote perfect diet and I had exercised, you know, followed the book. I was having this chronic pain. And then someone told me, hey, you know, you should read this book by John Sarno. Yep. And I said, what are you nuts? I said, that's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. And then I'm reading the book and I'm like, oh my God, he's described. me. And then just like the vegan diet, which I didn't, you know, plant-based diet, I didn't want to be plant-based at first. But when I stumbled across the information, and I actually tried to find reasons not to do it, and I couldn't find any good reasons. And then all of a sudden I tried it.

I'm like, this is fantastic. I feel great. How could I not do this? I did it, and I became plant-based and learn more and more. Same thing with the neuro pathway pain, where I said, holy cow, you know, and I can tell you about my experience, which led me to other pieces, but we put all that together, and then we can use that to support patients. My MBialx Breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine, drink more water.

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Make sure to mention my ambiotic breakdown to help support the show. You know, there's many things that I think we would all agree are wrong or not working about sort of the conventional medical model, you know, especially for kind of primary care. But I also, you know, we talk a lot about, you know, when you think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? And you think of a culture that, you know, we've been raised to believe that there's an order, you know, that we have to address needs in a certain order. and for those who do not have financial resources or representation, you know, that those needs are, well, we've got to make sure everybody's got, you know, a job and three meals a day, right?

And a place to live. And those things are absolutely true. And we have a crisis in this country that I think we should all constantly be humiliated by the fact that children do not have three meals a day, you know, children who do don't get a meal before they go to public school, you know, in the morning, things like that. However, a lot of people see the kind of stuff that you're talking about as elitist, right? Like, it's a, oh, that's a luxury to think about play. That's a luxury to think about connectedness.

Now, I don't believe that, which is why I'm bringing it up, because I know you don't believe that either. But I wonder if you can kind of explain where, especially as physicians, where those needs need to start ranking when we think about all communities, not just rich communities, not just rich white people. It's not an elitist thing that you're trying to tackle. Can you speak to that a little bit and know that I'm on your side? I'm not setting you up. And it's a great question.

I think part of that is, and we talk about that in the book, that wonderful shouldn't be a luxury. It should be something that we can all attain. And one of those things is attaining it through beginning with that self-connection where, and I think you addressed it here as well, life is wonderful doesn't mean life is happy all the time. It doesn't mean life is abundant or life is up all the time. There will be downs too.

And it's how can I empower myself? to embrace my life in the most authentic and fullest way that I can. And I think, and I wish for everyone the opportunity to be able to do that. And we all, needs are universal. We all have them, right? And the strategies that we choose to meet them are different. And maybe, you know, different people have different ways of meeting those needs, choosing different strategies.

But the hope is that the strategies are expansive, and the needs and the pillars are opportunities for everyone to meet with the resources that they have. I'd add another thing is that our clients, the more affluent they are, often the more disconnected, the less play, the more fear-based, the more they live in a threat physiology, than people that are less affluent. So there's, to me, I've also found people that embrace community more, tend to be people with less economic resources because they all depend on supporting each other. And actually, that's the best thing for health. Just like the best diet for health is the least affluent diet. So it's almost like affluence has taken us away from health. And we actually

want to get back to depending on each other, connecting with each other, eating the basic foods, not the most affluent foods, right? And the more we do that, the healthier we're going to be. And I'm obviously generalizing. Sure. But I think like connection, we talk about this. Connection is not a nice to have. Connection is so important for physical health.

In fact, we talk about a couple of studies where people don't realize this, especially in the conventional world, they think that connection is, oh, it's a nice, talk nice, that's great. But we showed, there was a study that showed empathic doctors, highly, empathic doctors. When you had, you looked at their patients compared to low empathy doctors, the higher empathy doctors, their patients had 29% better or lower hemoglobin A1C, which is blood sugar, 25% lower LDL, cholesterol levels, just comparing them to low empath doctors. In other words, how the doctor connected with the patient affected the physical health of the patient.

You know, one of the currencies that we really wish would change is a from this attachment to more materialistically or financially, more money, more status, more fame. And moving that to a currency of joy, a currency of connection, a currency that we can do ideally without those other luxuries. And one that I think is more satisfying and fulfilling when all is said and done. That's, I really, I really appreciate that explanation because, you know, there's, there's four components that you talk about. So the four are nonviolent communication, play, spirituality, and connection.

So if you could kind of give me kind of the soundbite on what component that plays in general wellness, when you're also then adding, you know, all the other components that you're, you mentioned, you know, diet and exercise and sleep and all those things. Yes, so what's interesting when you talk about these other areas, which is why polybagle theory is so important to bring into this and the mind body, mind body, right? But the idea is that people are worried about inflammation, right? And to me, that is really important. People change their diets and worry about what they eat and how they exercise to deal with

inflammation. What I think people are more surprised to hear is your physiological state, when you're disconnected or isolated or in fear-based mode, survival mode, your body is shifting its physiological state towards a state of threat and preparation for threat. That stimulates the same pro-inflammatory pathways, over-inflammatory cytokines, adrenaline, cortisol, it shifts blood flow when the body prepare for threat. all of that increases inflammation similarly to how an unhealthy diet are not exercising seeing on the couch all data. So to me, if you're just worried about diet, you're missing a whole pathway of inflammation. And if you're just worried about mind-body health and not diet or lifestyle, you're missing another path. So we want to put them all together. That's really the important. And nonviolent communication is the foundation of supporting connection. Right. And that's how you show up.

and how you communicate what's going on inside of you in a way that's authentic and brings you closer together. So a lot of times people have to decide between, I want to stay in connection with you. So I'm going to be inauthentic and go into a state of artificial harmony. It's not real harmony. It's artificial harmony because I'm suppressing my value or my feelings to keep you connected. Non-violent communication is one of the best ways we've learned how to create authenticity and compassionate authenticity and bring us closer together when I share with you what's alive and me and I can hear what's going on with you and not take it personally and then all of a sudden we build this trust and deeper connection. So what does that look like practically?

I guess that's what I'm sort of curious about because obviously nonviolent communication. Like it's a thing. Is it learning a way to speak? Is it learning a way to interact? Like if I were to, if we were to describe it to people, what is that? Yeah, I would, I mean, it's both and, right? But I think the thing that most resonates with me is the consciousness that it embeds, which is a needs-based consciousness. And that's where that authenticity, tapping into authenticity, is so important to allow us to connect to what are we needing.

What needs are we looking to have met in this moment? and so many people do their day to day, not connecting to that sense of authenticity, not connecting to those needs and having so many unmet needs, that it results in a scarcity mentality. It results in constriction. And it results in attaching to strategies that you mentioned, you know, some of the more well-known, well, I need to get enough money and I need to get a bigger house. And I need to get, you know, and I need and I need to get to get to get, to get.

or I need to do, to do, to do, to do versus I need to connect to what I am actually needing and what are all the strategies that could meet those needs. For example, play, right? Play can be a day at Disneyland. Play could be going to the park and running a ball around with friends or your kids. Like, you know, it could be so many different things. And when we can connect authentically to those needs where we have a need-based consciousness, then those strategies become expansive.

And we step away from that fear and that scarcity. Just if you can clarify, nonviolent communication I usually think of as like, instead of hitting your children, speak to them. But it expands beyond that when you're dealing with adults, right? And it's actually the same with children and adults. Right. It's about folks caring about each other's needs more than being right or winning or getting what you want. Because when I first started with nonviolent communication was I got certified as a trainer. It took four or five years, right? It was harder than medical school by far.

Right. Like to change the way I thought and the way I approached people, right? When I started before, I had three feelings, good, bad, and anger. Right. Those are my three feelings. You know, so I really, grown and it's possible. That's what was exciting to me. It wasn't that you have to be born compassionate or not or warm or not. It's something that you can develop and cultivate. And to me, when you are dealing with children, it's a desire to say, I care about your needs and I care about my needs. And I may not be able to meet all the needs in this moment. I want, I want us all to care about each other. And we're going to find strategies that will attend or tend to all of our needs in the best way we know how.

Right? To me, that's the essence of nonviolent communication. And a lot of people think it's like, you know, the violence and think of it as confessionate communication, but to me it's around connected communication and the focus is on connection more than winning. Talk a little bit about spirituality because this is, you know, sort of a buzzword that for a lot of people replaced a religious identity. And there's a lot of things wrong with the patriarchy and religious.

structure. I'm not going to have you dissect those. But, you know, spirituality, especially for those of us who live in Los Angeles, you know, it's a very kind of catch-all phrase that a lot of people, like, I'm not religious, I'm spiritual. But what you talk about is kind of a transcendent concept that is part of our needs. I don't mean to use the wrong word, but we as humans, and I would argue as primates as well. You know, we, we seek elaborate interaction with the world around us in really meaningful ways. Can you talk a little bit about what, what authentic spirituality is? Yeah. I think for me, spirituality is going to be a very individual thing. You know, how we connect to the world around us. Different people will do it differently. Some people do do it through religion.

Some people do it in, you know, going out in nature. Some people do it with song or dance or, but really, and I think that to me is the, one of the more beautiful things about nonviolent communication is it sets a stage for interdependence where we recognize that we are connected. We are not isolated. We are not alone. We are in this bigger world together with other, people and animals and plants and, you know, and having that sense of something greater than just

ourselves being out there. I think for me, that is that spirituality and how it manifests or how it's implemented in the lives of different people will probably resonate differently. Right. And that I can't meet, I mean, interdependence is one of those needs that's top of my list, right? So I can't meet my needs at the expense of yours. That's not, that's not, and spirituality, you know, we're all waves in the same ocean, right? Like, and what's happening now is people, the waves are trying to get up and walk out of the ocean and sort of just take care of themselves on the beach, right? And we all, you know, and I'm not saying you can't, can't, you have to also tend to your physical needs. And there is a separate self, but not at the expense of all of us

together. Oh, so you said something, you know, you said, I can't meet my needs at. at the expense of yours. And the converse is also true. I can't meet your needs at the expense of mine. And, you know, that I think is where a lot of us, and I think especially parents, I think a lot of us fall into that.

And I wonder if you can speak to that a little bit because, you know, of the things that as a human, as an observer of humans, I'm most concerned about. I'm very concerned about how people parent. And, you know, my kids are now, How old are they? There's 17. What are their names again?

They're 17. Exactly. There's 17 and 14. And, you know, as you both know, I've spent, you know, my time as a parent really examining my time as a parent. And I wrote this book Beyond the Sling and people thought I was crazy for talking about attachment parenting. And, you know, people like Dr. Becky are talking about, you know, gentle discipline in ways that makes sense to modern parents now. right? Because I already feel like I'm a different generation. But one of the things that I most notice is that so many of us get stuck in either placing our needs so far above those of our children that they are essentially collateral damage without us even realizing it, or making

children the focal point of everyone's existence in the room so that we know, we don't longer essentially have needs that are being met as parents. And we're creating a culture for children where we're essentially teaching them that they are the most important thing in the universe, which is also not necessarily true. So there's these kind of like two polarities. But I wonder if you can speak to that a little bit because what you said, Matthew, is like that feels to me the crux of it. Like whose needs are more important. And that's sort of this like fight that I think parenting is in. And as you said that, I saw myself ping ponging, oscillating between both of those. But where I really want to live is in the middle.

And that's kind of the way that we aim to raise our girls. You know, they're now nine at nine and 11. And again, it's when I'm mindful and conscious and able to connect to those pillars and the life is wonderful state, it's having that need-based consciousness. So not getting immediately to the strategy, but we, the immediate, what are all of our needs? How do we hold them all? How do you matter and I matter in this discussion, you know? And it's, it's work, but it's so rewarding, you know, because I know that so many,

of us grew up, there was kind of you had two ways. You could submit to a parenting strategy or you could rebel against a parenting strategy, right? And in between there lies kind of joining with your children and the parents and kind of traveling that road together in a way that meets needs for respect and mattering and mutuality and partnership. And it's really rewarding. You know, when my nine-year-old can come to me and say, hey, mom, I have a gift for you. You know, today my need was not met for X, Y, and Z, you know, or when you said that, I heard tone and I didn't enjoy that.

But you know what? It's beautiful. I love it. She is giving me a gift. One, she's able to express her needs. And two, that brings my consciousness back to that needs-based vocabulary and awareness. You know, and then from that place, we sit and we can strategize together. And I feel like I have a partner in this, you know, someone that, so it's not a power over

and it's not a permissive, you know, discussion that we're having. I feel like we're making these strides together. And it feels there's an ease to it and a peace of mind to it. You know, because I look at my girls, they're 9 and 11, and I think, oh, God, the teenage years, what's going to happen there? And so every time I get one of those gifts, every time my girls can come and say, hey, you know what, I didn't like that.

I didn't meet this need or that need. I feel relief because we have opened a communication, you know, and a trust that is just everything. I mean, it really is. And Matthew, can you speak a little bit to how much weight this carries in terms of not having this sort of dialogue slide into whatever your kids want they get? Because I think a lot of people hear us talk like this. And it's like, well, that sounds like their kids are being disrespectful and walking all over them. But I know that that's not what this is. But Matthew, can you speak a little bit to sort of what it looks like in terms of the holistic kind of temperature of, you know, a family system or even a friendship that operates like this?

Yeah. And we could even do a role play now if you wanted to make it more clear. But the goal is that, remember we said, our needs are never. we're going to go unmet, especially, well, for safety and health, right? So safety and health are non-negotiable. If I don't, my needs for safety and health aren't met, we're going to stay at the table or we're not going to proceed with the strategy. It doesn't mean we can't keep talking about it, but we're not going to proceed. And that's the other key is that we mistake strategies for needs and we jump too quickly to strategization. You mean that's fixing it, right?

That's like, like if a kid says like, oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, I'm upset about that. The answer is not always, I'm going to fix it, make it right, and take you to the restaurant that you want to go. And sometimes one of our needs is mourning, right? It's like, oh, I'm hearing and I can't think of a way right now to meet your need and meet my needs right now. So let's, we can, let's feel our sadness together, right? Because I'm disappointed. I'd love to be, I want to contribute to you. I want to support you whenever I can, but I can't think of a way to do it in a way that meets these other needs. I think that's a really big distinction. Hearing other, hearing their needs, doesn't necessarily equate to meeting their needs.

And that's true in adult relationships too. Right. Right. Right. Let's do a role play. All right. Do you want to be a mom, dad, kid? Well, yeah, I want to be the, I want you to present me with something like as if you're a kid. And I'm going to see if I can get it right. Hey, mom, I really want that candy right now. No. Oh, sorry. Okay, sorry. Okay, go ahead. I'm ready now.

So I really like that candy mom. And I really want to have it right now. So I should acknowledge the need. Like, I see that you want that. Right. That's an important thing. Like I have to acknowledge it, right? Right.

You want kids, the three needs that are so important for kids that are often in deficit. They want to be heard. He want to know that their needs matter as much as the parents' needs. Okay. And they want to have choice or autonomy. Okay, great. So I know they. you really want that candy.

It is delicious. Damn, that's the need. You see how you got it. It tastes really, really good. They want this pleasurable. Yeah. Okay. So now they feel heard?

I don't know. Let's check in. Say, hey, am I hearing it? Am I, am I, oh, this is an important thing. Am I getting that right? Yeah, Mom. It's really, really delicious. And I'm so glad you can understand that.

I would, my instinct would be like, this is not a food choice that is available to you right now. but why why so that's again going to strategy so you need to phone a friend now that's phone alone that is hard you need a phone a friend uh yeah a lifeline life line life line what do i do right so so you would want to what need of yours isn't met when they're eating candy what do you worry it's going to happen if they eat candy right now well it's not necessarily about my worry because i worry about a lot of things that they probably shouldn't know about but um let let let's say that um it it is it is is could I pretend it's like it's close to meal time?

Right. So what happens if they eat candy and it's meal time? I do not think an appropriate appetizer is candy because it leads to a sugar spike, but they don't need to know about that. So maybe I'm hearing there's a combination of things here. Maybe there's health. So need for health, which is a big one around candy. Another one though I'm hearing with the food is, hey, I'm making this delicious dinner.

I'm working so hard. And I'd really love sort of work together as a team here and eat the dinner. that I'm creating and spending all my time and effort around. If you don't want to eat that, then maybe I would use my energy differently. So I want, and I'm not saying you can't have the can. See, here's the thing. I always reassure kids, especially when we're starting to transition from the old paradigm and new one.

It's not that you can't have the candy right now. I really want you to hear what my needs are before we decide whether you have the candy or not. Now, I'm in my head. I'm still thinking, I can't think of a good reason to eat the candy, but I don't need to go there yet. I'm going to connect. And usually they have a need for health too, but they're not going to get to that need

if they're worried about asserting their autonomy with you or saying, mom doesn't listen to me. And sometimes what I've noticed is that when you acknowledge the need, like instead of saying you can't have that, the answer is no, you don't want that, you don't know what's good for you, that sometimes leads to resistance, right? Yes. As opposed to like, sometimes they just want to know, like, yeah, I really want to. that and oftentimes they will move on. Like, sometimes that ends the fight. It's a lot of conversation. And you know what? It can be. It can also be quick. And it takes practice.

I mean, that's the other thing is like it gets easier. So this actually leads to sort of the second category of things that I observe as a human that terrifies me. I can guarantee you that, I mean, my children have reported it now, and I know they will continue to report it, likely for the rest of their lives. And, you know, we can't always go back. I'm getting emotional. We can try and do better. You know, they report that my attention is always divided between my work and my phone and them. And this is another place where, you know, I don't think your book does not sound like your fuddy ditties. However, a lot of people really recoil when they see the kind of investment that you're talking about making in yourself and the people around you. And I know for me, and this is me being super honest, the times that I lose my patience with my children or even with my partner or even with friends is because I have too many things that I'm trying to keep track of in my head and life. and I literally have lost the ability. And I'm sure this existed for people before the smartphone, but I know that for me, the smartphone has broken my spirit

because it has really made me fundamentally unable for the most part to put it down and to let it go away so that when things come up with my kids, when things come up with my partner, even when things come up at work, so that I have the presence of mind to say like, Huh, let me think about that. It's like I feel like I have no time to think. What am I experiencing? Strategy, right, is, what do I do?

And to me, it's self-connection around, hey, I'm choosing to schedule myself in such a way that is really under-resourcing me. And it's also making it really hard to meet needs for presence with my family and the way I would really value. Did you say under-resourcing? Under-resource, right? So not having the resources that you need to show up in the way you would like.

And it's not that you have to change. Because remember, change is strategizing. We're self-connecting. This is causing a lot of pain in my life. And I don't know what to do at the moment, but I just want to take a minute to name that. Right? So we're slowing things down. And then we're saying, oh, I really do feel sadness when I connect to the fact that my kids

wish I had contributed to presence more. and I want them to be able to maybe empathize with me that I'm having a hard time putting my phone down because I have fear around being disconnected or missing something or whatever other reasons are, right? Could be a lot of reasons. So do you see how we're connecting around the pain without even doing anything differently?

And you're giving yourself, you're owning it. I'm choosing this right now and I don't have a better option right now that I can think of. That's very helpful. You know, one of my most favorite parts, really of any grown-up book is when there's pictures. And there are pictures in the appendix. And, you know, there's a list for kids, but honestly, like, we're all just kids.

Like, we're kids that just have more years, you know. And, you know, I find it's in the book as well, but I love that it's in the appendix in visuals. So you have this chart of needs. And, like, it seems like shouldn't be life-changing. you list a bunch of needs. But as I started going through them, I really felt this sense of like, oh my gosh, like even naming them, it is so helpful. Because, and they're, well, they're alphabetized on, you know, page 146. But, you know, this is something that we did an episode here with an

amago therapist. And in Amago therapy, and Jonathan and I did like a little work session, And in Amago therapy, they literally say, like, what are you needing right now? You know, like, what does your inner child need or what is the need? And I want to carry this with me, like, in my back pocket. Because I'm looking at these needs and I was like, how many times in a relationship are you in a conflict? And what you need is honesty from the other person, right? Or how many times, you know, do you, if you learn to get in touch with your body, you're able to say, I need movement.

And Jonathan, I wish Jonathan was with us for this episode because Jonathan is this person who's like, I need to stretch my own. And I'm like, what? What are you talking about? It's like, I need to lay on the ground. And I like, I didn't get it. But when I think of it in this context, he's in touch with something in his body that says something has to move.

Like something needs. And I was like, that's a need, right? Or this is a big one. I need appreciation, right? Like to be able to say that. Because also, how many times are you in a conversation with someone and you just really want them to say like, thank you for what you are offering, what you're providing?

And I don't mean to say to your kids, like, you better say thank you. I mean in any meaningful relationship, you need to feel appreciated. Like, it's a thing, right? And play is on here. rest is on here. I barely know what that looks like. And this is another thing that Jonathan taught me.

Like, he has to go to bed when he has to go to bed. And I used to just like white knuckle it. I'd be like, no, when things are done, I go to bed. And if that's midnight or if it's one, that's what it is. And we're just going to wake up

and do it again. Also, one of the needs listed here to matter. You know, and I think about kids. Like, they need to know they matter. Can you talk about that a little bit? I mean, obviously, adults need it too, but it starts with kind of how we treat children.

Can you talk about mattering? Yeah. I think, you know, when Matt mentioned the three needs that kids, that are really important to kids, mattering is a big one to be heard, to have choice, and to matter. And I think one of, I think nonviolent communication is one of the most effective. effective ways that I have found to, in practice, show them that they matter. And it is, again, connecting to those needs, having awareness around those needs, not just mine

with that list, but that they share those same needs. And when I can hear that and when I can connect to that, it gives them a sense of mattering. They are not ignored. They are not overruled. you know, they are heard and that matters. And also in terms of that mattering, you know, I look at this list and when I think of, you know, kids need things like safety, right? Security. I mean, kids in particular need safety, security, reassurance.

And one of the things that gets us there is also being able to hold boundaries with them, right? This notion and you hear people talk about this. And look, there are people who, you know, are part of more of a permissive parenting kind of movement or, you know, the free-range children. You know, there was a period in our parenting history where there were articles written about people who would just like turn their three-year-old loose on the street outside their house and be like, they'll figure it out. But for many of us, you know, who are seeking children who believe they matter, believe that their feelings matter, it's also important that they know that they're safe with us, like that we're. we will hold boundaries and give them structure because they do need that as well. Can you talk about that a little bit? Well, part of mattering is also modeling mattering, right?

So yes, they matter, but I matter too. And just like they have needs, I have needs as well, right? And that's the interdependence around that needs-based consciousness, that it's not about my job is not to meet all of their needs. their job is not necessarily to meet all my needs. But naming them, but hearing them, and then coming together to strategize in a way that doesn't just work for them, but works for me too. Those are boundaries. That's really important. That's important for self-connection. And I think it's important to talk about boundaries from a nonviolent communication perspective is around, hey, we're not going to do things that don't meet my needs.

right unless i'm okay with putting my needs on hold for a little bit which is your choice like the first 10 years of your child's life i would argue that's not going to meet your need for health but hey you know but my point but exactly right like we want to make sure that that so because boundaries sometimes is like conventional part right the the it's it's you know i'm going to tell you what you can't do and you're wrong and it's almost a little bit harsh right and to me boundaries can we talk about this in the book too, like it can be warm boundaries, right? Right? We can say, hey, I can't think of a way to do that without, that's going to also meet my needs.

So can we please hold on this until we can find a way. And I don't have any more space to talk about it right now, but I do care about this. So can we talk about it in 30 minutes or can you try mom? That's a good one, by the way. I'm the only parent in my house. So it's, I can't, I don't get to, I don't get to toss that. No, I don't get to do that. But I do like that notion also of like, sometimes I don't have the answer.

And that's often very comforting for them to hear. Meaning, I don't know how to resolve this. So we're going to take the path of leastest resistance now or do the least damage now. But this is something that's going to need more time. Yes. And that's when we put pressure on ourselves to figure it out now or it's got to be A or B, that's where we get into trouble. It becomes very disconnecting.

It feels tight and constricted almost, right? We want to be expansive and curious and open. And often kids will come up with strategies. I mean, it just happened the other day where I was like, wow, I wouldn't have thought of that one. And they came up with a strategy that met both their needs. And thank goodness, I stayed out of it because I wouldn't have come up with that. And I was starting to feel like just a little bit of tightness.

But they jumped right in and came up with a new strategy. I was like, this is great. Before I let you go, and I hate to do this to you, but I'm going to do it, if you had to, I'll make the number six, because there's two of you, if you could each give me three things and maybe we could take turns. So like one of you will give one. What are the six things? Like if you were to tell someone who's listening and they're like, I don't know the path to wellness. I don't know the path to wonderful. I'm going to give each of you the opportunity to share your top three things. What are they? Yeah. So for me, my top three are eating.

healthy, which for me is a Whole Foods plant-based diet. Sleep. I really aim for a non-negotiable seven to eight hours, and it makes a huge difference in my life. And connection. I think community, connection, you know, making sure that I'm around the people that I love and that I'm connecting to them on a day-to-day.

Yeah. And for me, one would be play. I think I forgot or how to play and say, hey, you know, I didn't need to do it for health. You know, I don't need to do it because it's the right thing to do. What would just have me super excited and fun and playful, right? Like to get really clear on what that is. Right. And sometimes it's helpful to think back to when I was a kid and what did I really like to do as a kid.

Right? So that's really learning how to play again. for me the the connection to what's going on inside my heart so being able to share vulnerably whether I'm happy, sad, angry, etc, being able to share that and not hold that alone. I think most of my suffering happens not from the unpleasant feelings when I hold them alone. And then for me, the last one is not letting my head overtake what my body is telling me. So my head is get it done.

I could, I'm a workhorse. And it'll sometime my body will say, hey, you need to break. And my head will be like, no, no, no, you need to finish this. And I have a little dialogue with myself. And I think being able to tune into my heart and my body a little more is really made life more wonderful for me. Myam, can I cheat and just add one more? You can, you know what, as I was thinking about it, I really.

I see that you have a need. Yes, I do. I do have a need to add something. I have a need to add. And it meets my need for you to communicate well with the audience. Yes. You know what? I would go online and I would get.

a needs sheet and I would start connecting to my needs. I would walk around with that day and day out and start just getting in touch with what am I needing in this moment. Wonderful. I really, Alona and Matthew, thank you so much for being with me. And I know Jonathan's going to be really sorry that he missed this one because it was a really good one. But I also really want to thank you for not only the holistic approach that you've taken in your lives, but the ability that you have to communicate it so effectively and clearly and also in a really fun way in this book. So thank you so much for being with us. The book is Wellness to Wonderful, Nine Pillars for Living Healthier, Longer, and With Greater Joy.

Thank you so much for being part of our breakdown. Thank you, Maya. Thank you so much for having us. It's Myam Bealek's Breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One thing she was and now she's gonna bring