Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - They’re Building A Psychopathic Society. Ancient Faiths All Point To The Cure | Chase Hughes

Episode Date: June 30, 2026

The World’s #1 leading authority on behavior profiling, nonverbal human communication, influence, and persuasion, Chase Hughes, reveals the psychological systems secretly shaping modern society, and why he believes humanity is living through the biggest PSY OP in history.From government manipulation and engineered division to consciousness, DMT, spirituality, and the loneliness epidemic, this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown goes far beyond politics and exposes the hidden forces influencing how we think, behave, comply, and perceive reality itself.Chase explains why anger is the media’s most powerful weapon, how fear and tribalism are used to manipulate entire populations, and why most people don’t realize they’re being psychologically programmed in real time. He breaks down his FATE Model (Focus, Authority, Tribe, Emotion) and reveals how governments, institutions, and social media exploit ancient mammalian survival instincts to control human behavior.He also shares why he believes the global response to Covid was the largest psy op ever conducted, why ostracization is humanity’s deepest fear, and how the threat of social rejection can override logic, morality, and independent thinking.The conversation then takes a profound turn into spirituality, altered states of consciousness, and the nature of reality itself.After 9 military deployments and witnessing the psychological effects of violence and desensitization, Chase began searching for deeper answers about consciousness, meaning, and human connection. He describes his first guided DMT experience as “death by astonishment” and “smoking an alien microchip,” revealing the mysterious “code” he saw during the experience and why it completely transformed his understanding of reality, and saved his life.Chase explores whether consciousness is something we create or something we access, why “everything is consciousness” could explain quantum entanglement, and why some people appear to be “banned” from the DMT realm entirely.He also breaks down the hidden similarities across ancient spiritual texts, the most repeated phrase throughout human history’s sacred writings (including 7 Hermetic Principles & the Emerald Tablets), the illusion of separation, and why modern society may be engineering psychopathic behavior through digital isolation and performative social media culture.Chase Hughes also breaks down:- Why history predicts future government behavior- Psychology of mass compliance- Why social media may be destroying authentic human connection- Whether anyone can truly live authentically anymore- Loneliness epidemic & digital relationships- Why we have more in common with political opponents than with the people manipulating us- What humanity gets wrong about prayer- How perception of reality became the throughline of Chase’s life work- Why manipulation works best when people believe they are immune to itThis is one of the deepest conversations we’ve ever had on psychology, consciousness, propaganda, spirituality, manipulation, human behavior, DMT, media control, social engineering, and the future of society.FFRF: If that matters to you, go to http://FFRF.US/BREAKDOWN or text, “BREAKDOWN” to 511511 to learn more and join.For a limited time, get $250 off Cove Pure water filtration at http://www.covepure.com/breakdownMachine Washable Rugs, Made Better. For a limited time only, our listeners get 10% off + free shipping at https://www.tumbleliving.com/BREAK #Tumble #adGo to https://tidd.ly/4uVltMe and use the code MAYIM50 to get $50 off your Elastique order.Visit https://drinkag1.com/BREAKDOWN to get a free AG1 Travel Case with 7 free AG1 Travel Packs in your Welcome Kit with your first AG1 subscription, order while supplies last.NCI, the world’s #1 behavior profiling and influence training: https://nci.university/Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sciops are happening all throughout our lives. It's an engineered division. Everything from government to the way we interact socially. We're generating information in a fake world. Engineered division causes destabilization. I'm changing your beliefs, your thoughts, your mindset, how you perceive. And I can get any behavior that I want. It's so effective that it grows by itself.

Chase Hughes is a leading authority in behavioral profiling at psychological operations. He's also explored connections across ancient texts to uncover message is left for us by past civilizations. Separation is the biggest lie that has ever been forced on the population of the earth. Even the ancient Mayans were trying to say we're not separate. We are all one thing. We took several hundred ancient texts in different languages. The most repeated phrase is do not fear. Are we just consciousness itself? That's the ultimate question. What we really need, it's a lot more of feeling like you're part of something. If I wanted to manufacture a psychopath, The number one ingredient is separation.

So are we creating a psychopathic society? The weird thing is... My and Bialx Breakdown is supported by Helix Sleep. Summer's in the air, and so are all of the allergens that come with it. Summer allergens means you need more sleep, but there are a ton of factors that can prevent us from getting a good night's rest. Night sweats, back pain, feeling the person next to you

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We're also going to talk about how the government is using sciops to control what we think and how we feel and what recurring messages from ancient texts can. reveal about how we're supposed to live. The person to tie this all together is Chase Hughes. He's a leading authority in behavioral profiling and persuasion. He's an expert in sciops and intelligence. He's also someone who has studied neuroscience extensively, as well as the connection points across nearly 200 ancient texts

to uncover patterns and messages that have been left for us by ancient civilizations. there's so much to cover. It's a pleasure to welcome Chase Hughes to the breakdown. Break it down. Thanks, Ma'am. Good to be here. Hey, Jonathan. There seems to be a through line with so much of the work that you do

and the reason that people kind of call on you for expert information, advice, structuring from how we perceive ourselves in personal interactions to how we can be perceived in ways that are, you know, again in larger arenas. But if we pull back even more, you know, you've recently entered a conversation with all of us, right, who follow you and listen to you about how we perceive reality. And I wonder what feels most kind of pressing to you as an introductory place, you know, for our audience to get to know you a little bit. Yeah. So I was in the military for 20 years and I kind of cut my teeth doing the military stuff. I was a ship navigator for a long time and

then I was kind of a just a regular old gunfighter and expeditionary warfare stuff for a while. But that whole time I was obsessed with psychology and and siops and all of this stuff. And I didn't intend to do this for a living by any means. But it just fascinated me what a person can be made to think and what. what a person can be made to do. And it wasn't until maybe like two years ago that I realized that everything, if you're good at this job, the only thing that you're really good at is engineering conditions.

So it's not really, I'm changing your beliefs, your thoughts, your mindset, or identity. I just shift conditions and how you perceive those conditions. Then I can like get any behavior that I want out of human beings. And I think it's,

so common nowadays. Like the sciops are the norm instead of, oh, this one big thing happened. And it's just like every moment of our lives. And we watch all these things that show like, oh, your phone is hijacking your brain. Your phone is brainwashing. Your phone is really bad for you. And we still spend time on our phones to where it's gotten like those user agreements that will just agree to whatever just because I'm just going to be on my phone no matter what. So it's just kind of just, it's a normal part of everyday life.

And that's one of the reasons I'm literally sitting in my TV studio right here where we have like daily news is going to start coming out where we're going to show this is how this event's being framed. It's made you, it's made to get you to feel this certain way. Here's the outcome that's probably desired from that. Here's like the deeper intelligence of how all this stuff is connected. And I feel called to really show this to people. way that some people say this is manipulation techniques or whatever, but I can teach the same technique to a cult leader that I can teach to somebody who's a suicide crisis hotline operator to change someone's behavior, to change somebody's belief. So I think the ethics are never in the

tool itself. It's in the intent of the person using the tool. When we think about XIOPs, for people who may not know what that is, can you describe it and how prevalent it is in pretty much all the information that we're consuming, meaning we used to believe, and it may not even be true, that there was an objective presentation of facts versus here are the facts, and here's how I want you to feel about the facts. When it comes to scips, the definition would be a coordinated effort to shape the belief of a public, of a general public. And we've gone through several cycles in our news. Our news was in the like let's say 1900s, it was openly propaganda.

They were open about like, hey, we're propagandizing you. And it was just kind of an open thing. Then we get into the revenue model. And then it was just today's episode brought to you by Dawn Dish Soap or whatever in the 40s and 50s. And so it was like the news happened between advertisements. And then we kind of got used to that. And now probably 2008 and on, we're in the style of news where it's all about captivity. How long can I get you?

So we switched to this 24-hour news cycle, and the news has to fill that with something. And you can't just fill it with facts 24-7. It went from information to revenue, and then now we're at the retention phase. So pissing you off is the fastest and easiest, way that I can get you to just stay glued to the TV. That's just why we don't see the, oh, a cat got rescued from a tree stories very often anymore. We're not seeing that unless you're watching this wake up with John show, coffee show in the morning.

And I think a lot of people imagine all these dark figures around this conference table, smoking cigars, like planning this world domination stuff. It's just I can charge more money for ads if I can get you glued to the screen. screen longer. So I don't think there's some coordinated Illuminati plan or anything to do any crazy stuff. It's just, it's a byproduct of what it gets rewarded. And that's definitely what gets rewarded now. So siops are happening all throughout our lives. And the media is more like, and one of the models we have here at this TV station, we haven't even launched a video yet. And we're still filming and stuff. But one of our models is, what did the news tell you to

feel today. And that's a lot of what happens is we get told and a pre-packaged villain is ready to go and then a pre-packaged feelings. Like here's how you should feel about this and here, let me now direct your attention to this bad guy that you need to be pissed off at. And that's kind of what the news is. So we're getting this coordinated sci-op and the left versus right thing in politics. It from from an expert, I will say, is a sci-off by itself. It is, I think it's an engineered division that's happening in our country. And I think if I can, if I'm up at the very top, if I can get you to fight horizontally, then you'll never look up.

You're not going to look up. And I think this is a very carefully engineered division that's happening right now. In wrestling, the hero needs a villain. Without the villain, there's no story. The hero can't just be awesome. No one cares, right? you need the obstacle to draw people in and suck attention. So with this engineered division, can you paint a picture for someone who may be like,

well, it's not really that big a deal? Like let's talk about the impact of being caught in this level of division. What does it cause? And then what does it prevent? The one thing that the engineered division causes is destabilization. And that sounds like, oh, the country's a little unstable. No, I mean like individual brains are destabilized. We have this, Miami, you will be familiar with this.

We have this thing called the ventral tegmental area. And this is our little dopamine circuit inside of our brain and reward system. So we get into social media and what do we see? I see everybody that I agree with looking smart. And I see the people that I disagree with. The media is going to show me the dumbest morons that could be found on the other side, the people that I disagree with. I don't care if I'm on the left, I'm on the right. I'm going to see the absolute most idiotic people possible so that my brain says,

that's all of them. They're crazy. They're psychopaths. This engineered division, what it equates to is massively increased suggestibility. Once a person or population is destabilized, when something comes along and looks very logical, the brain will latch onto it. So, it's kind of like if you fall off a cliff or something, your arms and legs are going to flail all over the place. The first solid object that you touch, you're going to wrap around it as hard as you possibly can. Even if it's a thorn bush, if it's barbed wire, you're still going to grab, you're going to instinctively grab it. So when we have a destabilized human or population and some clear authority comes out, something clear, logical, easy to understand, we latch on to that because of this kind of flage. around this of confusion. So it massively ramps up the suggestibility of a population. And I think

that's the desired in-state for us to do that. And if you just think really quick, like about somebody who voted differently, and I'm talking to the people watching, like, we're programmed on social media. They're all idiots. They're all morons. They don't know what they're doing. They're stupid. But if you go to Walmart or Target and you see somebody who voted differently than you, I guarantee you they want about 90% of the same things that everybody else does. They want their kids not to be screwed with. They want to pay less taxes. They want to save money. They want to be good parents. They want to have time off of work. They want to take vacations. And you have like a hundred times more things in common with somebody who voted differently than you.

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Remember to text breakdown to 511-5-11 today. Message and data rates may apply. My and Bialx breakdown is supported by Tumble. You know, finding the right rug for a home is surprisingly difficult. An expensive rug makes you feel like no one should walk on it because you're afraid of staining it. Also, we've got dogs, cats, life. We knew that stains were going to be inevitable, but those standard washable rugs often look cheap and they feel temporary. Most rugs don't seem to be designed for actual real living.

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them that we sent you. Then the people who are engineering this division. There's been a lot of polling that suggests that we're actually far more similar than our algorithms suggest. And it is this division that keeps us glued. So when the profit model is incentivizing division, all we're going to see is more and more division. And it's going to further fracture us, increase hate and adjutant. and from just an interpersonal level, we're going to reduce trust. And you can kind of map the increase of time we spent online to the simplification of the solutions that have been offered to us because the world is a complicated place and just saying I'm going to reduce all the prices immediately on day one is really not a solution that is

going to be possible. Just like, you may want that, but it's just like it's a very difficult thing to actually do. And so people, as you said, will grab onto that solution and say, great, let's do that. So when you have destabilization and then we have an authority figure come out there and present something very clear, it's the same exact things that you would use to train a dog. And there's just four things that are able to manipulate a mammal's brain. And it spells out the word fate. And I think it determines our fate. And that's focus, authority, tribe, and emotion in that order.

So the first thing, if I can present a threat to you, I automatically and instantly get your focus. So our mammal brain's response to threat and novelty. Those are the things that generate focus. Then I present an authority figure or something that sounds authoritative, like the news, quoting a celebrity or quoting some statistic that says, this is happening. there's water supplies going out. There's a new virus in town like we're hearing right now. These things that feel like a threat make me respond to the authority figure more.

Then I go on social media and I see all my little echo chamber of the people that agree with me saying this is a conspiracy or we need to worry about this or, you know, fill in the blank. So now we're in tribe of the fate model. And then we get in there and we feel vindicated and we get dopamine when we see the people we agree with. and then we scroll a few more times, and then we get the idiot morons on the other side of the aisle, and then we get pissed off and angry. So then we fulfill both ends of the emotion spectrum. So it's focus, authority, tribe, emotion in that order. And after you hear me say this, I want you to try and experiment.

The next time you're on your feed, if anybody's looking on your phone, you're going to see this threat thing, you're going to see a little authority figure. You'll see tribal communication. Then you'll see something to make you emotional. it's usually positive. Like one of those videos where they're like, oh, we just found this baby deer one day on our front porch and we decided to raise it. And you know, it's like the compilation where the, I love those. I'm addicted to those videos.

And then you'll see that. And right at that emotional peak, you swipe one more time and you'll see an ad. Is it an ad to purchase a baby deer? Because that would work. I would probably do that too. But they'll show you an ad right after they take you through that mammalian influence. cycle. But if you look at it on the entire spectrum of a country, I take you through focus, authority, tribal motion, and I don't show you an ad, I might start a war. I might invade another

country. I might open the borders. I might do something that lots of people disagree with. However, I've taken you through the cycle, which makes you hyper-compliant and hyper-suggestable. I love the way you speak, and I could listen to you all day. And also, you're speaking in like a little bit of code because I think that's like a fancy thing that you know how to do. What I'm hearing from just a layperson's perspective is like I'm hearing that the government is doing things to make me feel safe so that they can then do things that are really upsetting and they're kind of like bouncing me around from place to place and it's like, oh, we should invade Iran.

Maybe we shouldn't have, but he knows what's up because he's the president. I'm not asking from a partisan perspective. I'm just saying that like, you know, you're using. elegant words to describe like, if we freak you out enough, you'll hold on to anything that feels like safe. And then that gives us the ability as a large government organization to also act in our own interests while convincing you that it's in your interest. Like, am I reading this right? If you just look at someone's history, that's a very good predictor of what their future will be, right? Look at the government's history. I mean, dating back to the 1920,

all the way up until today, all the stuff that gets declassified and the crazy stuff that our government has done over the years. So one of them is like, I'm going to kind of take you through the fate model. I'll freak you out a little bit, present some authority, and then like, bang, we're going to invade this country. The other one, if you take COVID as an example. That was a mess. It was like the biggest sciop ever. And it was so like in your face. And I think like it woke normal people up like my mom who was like, oh, no, we need a, we use the food pyramid or like the food pyramid is what you need to use to eat good food. And, you know, if something bad was going down, the government would always tell us the truth.

My mom woke up. Are you saying COVID or you're saying the way the government handled COVID was the biggest si-up in history? Yeah, the way that government's plural in agencies handled that. And if you think about the tribe element of the fate model, and then you go back to like, and just look at research. Like, what's the biggest fear of humans? It's higher than death.

It's public speaking. But it's never public speaking. It's the judgment that's going to come from the speaking. It's not the speaking itself. So it's, I might get judged. And what does that mean to our ancestor brain? If I get outcast from the tribe, I can't have sex, I can't reproduce, and I'm probably not going to get food.

and I'm going to die. So it means genetic extinction. So with anyone questioning, like maybe this thing isn't safe, maybe this, maybe we shouldn't be doing this, maybe we shouldn't be locking our children out of social environments and stuff, there were Harvard-educated MDs that were removed from Twitter just for having a dissenting voice, which is step one of Psiops, of recognizing. siops. If somebody has to be silenced for an idea to flourish, it is a very dangerous idea that good ideas should be able to be disagreed with and debated. And the guy who invented

the MRI vaccine technology was kicked off the internet or like socially shunned. So what does that say to us if that doctor can get booted and ridiculed and have his reputation destroyed? I will never speak up. I'm just going to be quiet. I'm going to back here. So we see it. It's like, if we think this is a right versus left issue, it's absolutely not. Absolutely not. This is a elite versus not elite kind of issue. And I don't mean elite as in the government. I mean, the people who make the biggest decisions. And I don't think it's like one, a couple of guys in a room. I think it's again, it goes back to what receives benefit. And then there's an algorithm that they tend to follow to.

And I don't think of it, it was some big group decision. And this goes both ways on both sides of the aisle. So if you think of like the government starts this little thing, who's enforcing it? We are. The people. The people are. when I was in second grade I wore that back in the day there was these t-shirts that would change color when it got hot yeah yeah they were called hypercolor that's right and I wore one to school in second grade and it was hot pink and I got called back then was an insults to gay people and that like that social injury removed me from ever being able to do that again I threw everything in my closet, it was pink away. It hurt and it was embarrassing. So what was happening right there?

Those are kids in the second grade. And when you take psychology, you learn a little bit about this. These are called Moors and Folkways. So this is public enforcement of something without knowing that you're actually enforcing something. So what these kids were doing, like this is the norm for what is masculine and what a boy is. and we are unconsciously going to shun this kid, me getting made fun of, for wearing something that is against this norm. But in second grade, you don't even realize that you're an enforcer of a norm. And 99% of adults that are on the Internet don't realize that a lot of what they're doing is enforcing some kind of cultural concept or something that was injected for them to socially enforce.

So we face the idea of social rejection. it is extinction level fear. So that's why we have so much compliance because we're leveraging that fear. Fun fact. Pink was actually the color for boys until about the 1940s. No way.

Yes, it was associated with purple, which was the color of royalty, right? Historically, when you think of like, you know that crazy furry robe that's like purple with the white collar and the black spot? Pink was the color for boys until the 1940s, which is like also that's how quickly, right?

I mean, you know this better than all of us. That's how quickly something can also flip, meaning we can insert something and then turn it on its head in a generation. Being caught in this division, being caught in the fear of being ostracized and trying to ensure that you don't say the wrong thing, to get rejected, to have this social control where you're, spending so much time trying to fit in, one of the things that it does is it prevents us from exploring, what does it actually fully mean to be human, to have a physical experience, to have a

larger spiritual experience, and how much more could we be capable of intuition, premonition, sensing, potentially feeling far more connected to other people? So there's that aspect that I think we want to get to and we want to talk about what might it look like in absence of some of this rat wheel that it feels like we're trapped in all the time because if we're constantly like, oh my God, there's the threat and I'm terrified and I'm destabilized, then you never really have a basis for feeling safe enough to actually be present. I'm a second generation American. So I was raised with like a reverence for this country because we, I wouldn't be here. I mean, like my grandparents, you know, got on a boat with nothing and ended up here, right?

And like, this is where they got to work in swag shops and, you know, send their kids to college and all the things. And I was raised like literally saying the Pledge of Allegiance every single morning, singing, you're a grand old flag every morning. Like, I was just raised in public school in Los Angeles. But I was raised with that notion of like, America's how I got here. And yeah, there's messed up things. And, you know, my dad stopped voting after JFK was shot because he's like, fuck it all. like if they killed our guy, you know, we're screwed, right? I was raised, though, with a real reverence for this country in theory, right?

And then you insert all of this stuff. And I wonder, like, how are we supposed to function, right? If everything has some hidden agenda, nothing is clean. And I think I'm one of those people that when COVID happened, it kind of like blew the top right off because I knew. that things didn't make sense. I wasn't allowed to say it. When I tried to say it, people called me a Republican, which is no insult to Republicans, not what I like being called. I'm a bleeding heart liberal. Nothing made sense and no one knew what to do about it. And now it's like coming out that

many of us were not wrong. It's not a partisan issue. But also, no one really knows what they're doing in this place called the government in terms of our health, information. They're literally sending messages on Signal, which is like where you talk to like people if you want to do it. Like it's like, it's like like, journey. Like what is happening? So I'm just like giving like a little bit of like an overarching like what the actual fuck is a normal person supposed to do who used to be like, yeah, the government's kind of like a mess, but like we're going to help poor people. Like what is happening? That's my story. Yes. What do you do? But also let's keep unpacking it. Like was there a conspiracy to kill JFK? Is there conspiracies constantly to take out the next leader? How, like,

how far down the rabbit hole should we be looking? Because I don't think you can actually start to rebuild what you're supposed to do until you actually see behind the curtain. So just going down this pathway, I think step one, we realize that there will always be these actors at play. I don't ever separate politics by Republican. or Democrat. I say we're at politics is who wants to help and who wants to control. And that's it. Help or control. Are you a servant or a kind of more controlling type of person? You should be a servant if you're in politics. I think at the end of the day, if you go back to ancient Rome, there were still siops. Hey, you know what? This guy's getting in trouble. Let's do the tiger,

fight the guy thing down in the coliseum. So, I mean, this stuff. not new. So, and if I wanted to manufacture a psychopath, number one, I have to start with full apathy. Like, no empathy for anybody else, right? If you've heard of the bystander effect in psychology, where, like, if there's a ton of people around and you get robbed or stabbed or something, no one's coming to help because of how many people are there.

Yeah, it's the Kitty Genovese case in the 1950s. A woman was literally like raped and killed and everybody heard it and no one did anything. That's a perfect example. And if it was just you and that other person and you stood and watched that person get stabbed, you would be a psychopath. I would call you a psychopath. Why is it different when there's a group? So what I think happens is when humans get into groups that are larger than our brains can handle,

we have group psychopathy that happens. And it's not individual psychopathy. It's the psychopathy of the group of people. But if I wanted to manufacture a psychopath, I need the number one ingredient. The biggest thing to bake this cake that I need is separation. Separation. And I think that separation is what the Mayans, even the ancient Mayans, we're trying to say, we're not separate. We're not, we are all one thing.

It's not like we're not just connected. We are all like some kind of one thing. And even if you look from a physics perspective, if we all came from the Big Bang, we're still one thing. The largest and oldest spiritual concept that we have is oneness. And I'm not just saying this because we hope to also talk to you about this. You know, guest after guest after guest have determined really the course of this podcast

because we started talking about mental health. And what we ended up realizing is that oneness, transcendence and sort of that notion of unity is what drives all of us, no matter what you try and fill that God-shaped whole with. Power, sex, drugs, alcohol, work, right? Whatever it is. Social media. And that kind of seems to be some kind of universal truth to it. And like I think one of the most ancient texts, if not the most ancient, is like these hermetic principles and the hermetic, the seven hermetic principles and like the emerald tablets and stuff. which all speak to this across cultures and continents.

But separation is the biggest lie that has ever been forced on, I think, of the population of the earth. And I don't mean it's anti-religious or anti-spiritual kind of separation. I mean left versus right. I mean, if I punch that guy in the face, it's going to do nothing wrong to me. If I cut that guy off in traffic, I'm never going to see him again. So fuck it. So that kind of separation is what I really mean there. The separation that means I will not suffer because someone else suffers.

So if I just start with separation and then keep making it bigger, then I create a psychopath. And the psychopath being that all of this separation is why this engineered division works so well, because it's so effective that it grows by itself. And now, if you look online, it's just like we talked about with the folkways. It's self-reinforcing. The people are doing the enforcement of the Sao. So are we creating a psychopathic society? I believe so.

The town that I just moved from, we lived there for a while. The population was 2,200. That town, if you cut somebody off in traffic, they know who you are. They know where you live. So reputation mattered. Like my reputation in a tribe was important, even if it's the mailman, even if it's somebody that I don't like. And especially if it's the mailman, right? Yeah.

When you get that package from Adam and Eve and you don't want anybody to know about it or something, right? So when we rely on reputation, we thrive. So what a lot of these things, these places have, like where you're just kind of crammed into one little box, the need for reputation is gone because there's so much apathy. Our brain can't process a tribe of 2.8 million people. And the feedback loops are slower. You may end up encountering that person you've cut off, but you very well may not. And, you know, you're sitting in a building that you're in the tiny boxes with absolutely no. shared space. There were proposals to create shared common rooms in large

apartment complexes because they knew that that would increase social community, the ability to meet. Very few people use the common room. If there's one common room in a building of 54 floors, the likelihood of you passing people is very low. But if you started to create common space by floor, much higher likelihood that you're going to start to know the neighbors and you're going to build community. Well, that was weighed against the loss of income by turning those common rooms into additional apartments that could be rented. And guess what?

The incentive structure won out. But we're not thinking about the cost that isn't seen about creating a psychopathic society where no one has connection or division. So we've chosen one profit motive without really understanding the cost of what we're choosing. The benefit is what makes things happen. It's the, there's no computer algorithm, but that's the financial algorithm that makes them say, you know what, go ahead and delete that big ass lounge

and let's stick 15 more apartments in there so we can make extra money. It's algorithmic, it's just not digitally algorithmic. It's human algorithm. The upside of artificial intelligence, if it was incentivized to do so, would be that it could start calculating the cost of this type of social division.

Right now it's being used to enforce it and expand it. But potentially we could start seeing all of this unseen. It's not even it's not only waste, but it's actually the degradation of social connection and in our social structure. In my opinion, there may be studies about this that I don't know about. I do not think that our brains are capable of fulfilling Maslow's. social hierarchy, that little social level of Maslow's pyramid, I don't think we're capable of fulfilling that digitally. I think there's some barrier to that. You mean in terms of the difference

between being in physical communion with people versus interacting digitally? Is that what you mean? Yeah. Do you think that's the reason for the loneliness, like epidemic we're in right now? I excel at conversations not in front of four cameras, you know, in terms of like this level, because it's a little bit like a theory of everything, right? And I'm always trying to compute, like, how do we fix it? How do we fix it? Jonathan can tell you also as a partner. Like, I cannot hear information without trying to fix it, right?

Meaning that's just like my brain just starts like click-a-dick-click. So as we're talking and as we're talking about everything from government, right, to the way we handled COVID, you know, even MRNA vaccines, right, to the way we interact socially. This is what I keep seeing is like, is the problem, right, that our main way that we are receiving information, processing information, and generating information is in a fake world. Meaning, once you're entering information and engaging in a place that is controlled

by the capitalist patriarchal structure, right, whatever, once you're in that world, it's not real, meaning you're in this echo chamber. you are shouting in a matchbox and you're then basing your personal development on what you see from a completely false, you know, lens. And it then determines who you date, if you date, right? It determines your work, your worth. What category can you put yourself in to excuse your shitty behavior, right? I mean, we've talked about this. Are you autistic? Are you just an asshole? Which I say, you know, tongue in cheek. But this is. what you're kind of living in. And so I actually have stopped engaging with the thing and,

you know, the phone, meaning I'm using it for the things it needs to be used for, but I'm not engaging recreationally. You know, I want there to be this theory of everything. Like, if everyone just gets off their phones, everything will be fine. But you're absolutely right that what has not changed in hundreds of thousands of years, if not millions of years of collective evolution is that humans are not meant at this stage to be interfacing with this artificial world as any way to sort of generate, I don't mean to sound like a mom, like true connection, true ability to process. And we all see it. We all see it in the way we're hunched over and our necks are all hurting because we're, you know, you see it when you, I see families out

to eat and everyone's on a phone. And I see babies with propped up computers in their strollers. babies, right? And this is what we're told it makes parenting easy and I'm living my best life, right? And if I just have another glass of wine, everything will be okay. Like something's broken and I give up. I'm going to move in with Chase and his family. What social media has done, it's brought so many good things. I wouldn't know people were friends with dears the same way that I know that from social media. Exactly. Or some guy has a pet cheetah in Florida somewhere. You know, I want to see that stuff. Bring it.

But is that legal and what are the complications and is it humane? That's where I go crazy when I see that, right? Meaning everything leads to another set of problems when that's the source of kind of interaction, information, and entertainment. I'm a behavior profiler. And the number one thing that I can start seeing in other people is the way that they conceal shame. What's truly just remarkable about this is that we will go out into,

the world and say, I'm not going to let them see this part. I'm not going to do this. I have to act this certain way. So I have this persona put on. And then if I, if I fall in love, I get married and I'm married for 10 years, it's it's still lonely because I know for a fact that they have never seen me. My friends have never seen me, truly me. So we have a world. that has never been seen before. What are people not showing? Where is this shame from and why are we hiding it? And are any of us actually living authentic lives?

Or is this all kind of part of, you know, a very twisted simulation that we've created? It's a twisted simulation for sure that we've made. This French philosopher commented on it a while ago. His name was Jean Baudreard. And he wrote Simulacra and Simulacra. and talks about how we just create simulations until we get things like a Disney princess. When I say the word princess, people think of a Disney princess, but that's a simulation of a simulation that has nothing original to point back to, right?

But we're just keep creating stuff. But I think at the end of the day, we hide shame about things that we think the public shouldn't know. I'm six, I'm eight years old, and I get made fun of. I get bullied. I get whatever. And I learn a permanent little lesson like, oh, this little part of me can't get shown to anybody else. I can't get too excited. I can't be too much. I can't hug people when I want to hug them. I can't just say what I'm feeling or I'll be embarrassed by it. I can't say that I'm lonely. I can nod my head all day long and talk about, oh yeah, there's a loneliness pandemic out there. I can't talk about me being lonely. Holy shit. Somebody's going to see the real me. So that's what I'm saying. Like all of these things that make us socially vulnerable that we're totally fine when we're five years old. That's why we all love kids. They're just honest and they're real.

But we have people that are going out. I go to a party with my friends. I go to work and I sit in a meeting at work. I go to a networking event, whatever it is. And I still am concealing so much that I know none of them. Like even if that guy says, hey, Chase, you're really good guys. Great to get you to know you. I really want to hang out with you soon.

I can't feel good about that because it wasn't me that he met. So we have a world where people are feeling I have never been seen by anybody. Even if someone likes me, they just like the costume. They like the mask. They like their performance. I can't feel good about it. I can't feel really, really genuine goodness about it and real connection because it's not me that my partner's in love with. It's not me that shook that guy's hand.

I tend to romanticize anything other than the place that I'm in, right? And I think about my parents, you know, they met in 1961 at a time when it was like a really sweet little pocket of the South Bronx and like everybody knew everybody and they were together 53 years and blah, blah, blah. Things seemed simpler, right? Am I romanticizing that? Because then I'll hear my mom say things like, gosh, never occurred to me that I don't need to change my name. I'm not his property and now I can't find any of my friends on Facebook,

right? Like, was she playing a part? Was he playing a part? How far back does that go? Like, you know, I'm a person of faith. So I read texts that are thousands of years old and it's myth and it's, you know, allegory and it's metaphor and it's awesome and like it's mystical. But like, were those people having an experience when we look at indigenous communities? Are those people having an authentic experience. Is the problem agricultural, you know, industrial capitalism? I want to find when we can go back to that state or did it only exist in the presence of God before the universe was created? I think it was never at pandemic levels. So I think it's, I think you're okay to romanticize going back there. But I mean, there's still social enforcement

of norms. What I'm, saying is that instead of, let's say your parents in Bronx in the 60s, they're hanging out, your mom does something silly in front of her friends. She gets judgment from four people instead of four million. Right. Maybe you don't have that many followers. Maybe somebody's only got 15 followers and it's your family or something. But the threat.

And we all see these videos of a random person online. They get video doing something and there's a 50 million. views on it. That's a scale issue, right? So part of what we're talking about is scaling. We're talking about accessibility and we're talking about scaling. And those things are very, very, very real. When I look at what's going on with teenagers and my kids were homeschooled till high school, so we were removed from a lot of this stuff. But when I look at what it's like to be a teenager, I would either end up in a mental institution or I would say to my parents, you would have to chain me to that school to keep me from running away from it. I would not be able to tolerate

the competition, you know, just the parties that you're not invited to and you're seeing it online. Like I could my sensitivity, I would not, I just wouldn't survive. I'm not made for that. And I see all these kids, they're not made for it either, you know? The answer is to consume more, right? Get the shoes that everybody has or, you know, get the hair extensions or whatever's next, right? do that to be acceptable. They're carrying in all these things into high school now, and there's massive social enforcement to the

factor of millions of people instead of five or six people. But here's what really breaks down why it's such a huge problem today. Everybody thinks it's just me. I'm the only one hiding it. How do these other people have their shit together?

How are they able to exist and be comfortable and all this stuff. And they think it's just me hiding all of this stuff. It's just me pretending. Everyone thinks that they're alone in that. And that's the tragedy. That's what's probably above the loneliness epidemic is the isolation epidemic, which is different, which is why we have a loneliness epidemic because I can be in a room full of people, but I'm still lonely because I know that none of them know me, the real me. We're going to hit pause on our conversation with Chase Hughes, but there is so much more. In part two, we're going to talk about spirituality, and in particular, what prompted him to do a guided psychedelic journey with DMT?

He's going to be talking about what gets peeled back in this kind of journey and what it can reveal about the true nature of reality. There's even an experiment that he was part of where multiple people on DMT were asked to interpret a visual stimulus and all described the exact same thing. He'll talk about how it applies to the fact that we might be literally living in a matrix. Additionally, we ask him what the most common phrase repeated across nearly 190 ancient texts is and what it reveals about how we should be living today. Do not miss part two of our conversation with Chase Hughes from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.

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