Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Tony Hale: Practice Contentment Where You Are

Episode Date: January 18, 2022

Tony Hale (Veep, Arrested Development, Toy Story 4, Being the Ricardos, Clifford The Big Red Dog, Archibald’s Next Big Thing) discusses the impact a chronic, invisible condition can have on mental health. He explains how living with severe asthma shifted his worldview and contributed to his anxiety and panic attacks, and the consequences of living life in a state of constant vigilance. Tony opens up about how being bullied led him to build a comedic defense system, why he loves connecting with others who share his condition, and the importance of seeing yourself in other people. Mayim and Tony bond over the role faith plays in their mental wellness, learning to practice contentment, and the similarities between cognitive behavioral therapy and meditation. Mayim highlights ways to calm your mind when communicating with difficult people in another installment of Moments of Peace & Calm. Tony's Children's Book: https://www.amazon.com/Archibalds-Next-Thing-Tony-Hale/dp/0692229485 BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Today we're going to be breaking down asthma. You might be thinking asthma. That's a weird thing to break down. But we're going to be talking to two-time Emmy Award-winning actor-producer and author Tony Hale. You might know him from his role as. Buster Bluth, Unarrested Development, or the two Emmys that he's won for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Comedy Series came for playing Gary Walsh, the personal aid to Julia Louis Dreyfus' character on Veep. But before we do that, I'd like to acknowledge the absence of Jonathan.

It's funny because Tony Hale's characters described as the downtrodden personal aid. I don't think of Jonathan as a downtrodden personal aid, but he sometimes is a downtrodden because of me co-host. Jonathan is not here, but he will be back. Tony Hale has such an interesting journey. He was an army brat till he was in seventh grade, and his asthma is something that followed him his entire life and kind of is still part of his life.

And we're going to be talking about the impact of having a chronic condition, one that's often invisible to other people, and how that kind of shifted his perspective and his anxiety. And he talks about panic attacks that often accompany asthma attacks. Really, really fascinating stuff about kind of the immune system and what those kind of chronic conditions can do to our mental health. But we also talk about so many other things. I can't say enough about how incredible this is to talk to Tony Hale this way.

He plays the bad guy and Clifford the Big Red Dog, if you didn't know that. He's also going to be in Being the Ricardo's, which is the Lucille Ball Desi Arnaz movie starring Nicole Kidman, J. J.K. Simmons. And he has a series that he works on called The Mysterious Benedict Society. He plays two roles, Mr. Benedict and Mr. Curtin. And he's going to talk a bit about sort of the motivation for that role in particular, as well as the children's book that he wrote, which then was turned into a Netflix series, which is is called Archibald's Next Big Thing. That was his book that he wrote in 2014. He's a father, he's a person of faith, and we talk about that.

He has so many good things that I want to take with me all the time, and I think you will really, really enjoy and get a lot. From talking to Tony Hale, let us welcome Tony Hale. Break it down. Tony Hale, thank you so much for agreeing to talk to me. I usually have a sidekick. He is not here, but he will be very sorry that he missed today because he's severely asthmatic. Oh, great.

Yeah, we love when we have ailments that our guests share. It makes us feel not alone. It gives a good starting place. You're in the same tribe. That's right. It is the tribe of asthma. But before we get to that, many people know you from Veep. You have an exciting career even before, during, after.

But many people know you from Veep. Tell us a little bit about sort of when you started acting, how you kind of got to the acting world where a lot of people know you. Well, really it was before, I would say, I did a rest of development. I was living in New York. I moved to New York in 1995.

My first acting gig was Shakespeare in the parking lot where we did, we did, we did Tami of the Shrew in a parking lot in the East Village. I started doing commercials. Well, actually, I'd take that back. I had a lot of odd jobs.

I was cater-waitering. I liked cater-waiting. I liked cater-waiting. But with cater-waiting, you didn't have to do with people. You could just put food down. And if they had attitude, you're like, that's what you're going to get.

And so I really liked that. And then I started, I went to this, okay, I went to this thing called Actress Connection, where you pay money to meet agents. And so I had, met all these ages and this one lady named Linda McIntosh took some interest in me and because she described me as David Schwimmer but not as good looking and that's what they say about me too which is weird and I was like what if somebody doesn't think David Schwimmer

is going so then I started going out as that type like not all there quirky and I started booking commercials. But it took me, I'd say six years to find an agent to send me out for TV and film, because no one really saw me beyond the commercial world. And I finally found this manager, and then a year later, the audition for Rested Development came around, who was a character that was not all theirs, because that's what the agents kind of knew me as. And I put myself on tape, and I met my wife, and then we were engaged in 10 days before I got

married, the show got picked up. And I was like, I think we're moving to L.A. And she was a makeup partisan S&L at the time, which she loved. So she made a big sacrifice first and moved out to L.A. And so then I just started working out here and the rest of it got canceled. And, you know, it's, it's a roller coaster. You, you, this business, you sign up for a life of rejection. Like it is, it is just always putting yourself out there. And after arrested, I was kind of, you know, I was kind of seen as that character. and it's not like someone was going to be looking for an actor to play a lawyer in a film and be like,

you know what, that guy who was on Arrested Development playing Buster Bluth, he's our guy. So I had to kind of put myself out there and show other stuff and then Veeb came around and he was another kind of beaten down character but in a different form and just kind of gig to gig, really gig to gig. And you have an interesting early life. You were an army brat, right? It was.

It was. You were born in West Point. And your mom was in politics. interestingly. And your father taught nuclear and atomic physics. Is that right? And he was, he was in the military, correct? He was in the military. He went to Vietnam and he studied, he studied nuclear physics at West Point and then he taught it at West Point. So he's incredible, he's a very smart man. I'm sure he's a real hoot at cocktail parties. Well, here's the thing, though.

He, my grandfather was an opera singer. My grandfather was in vaudeville in New York. He was one of the hosts of the Earl Carroll Follies. And then he also would do club singing and opera singing and all these kind of odd gigs. And so my dad had a real appreciation for the arts and, you know, education and all those things. And so he really backed my career. which, you know, is obviously not always the case. And in the seventh grade, when he retired from the military,

we moved to Tallahassee, Florida. And my brother was really into sports, and I was not. And in the South, like, if you're not into sports, you don't exist. You know, it's just like football's a religion. So they didn't really know what to do with me. And so they kind of think, by the grace of God, they found this little theater called Young Actress Theater and signed me up for it.

And I just kind of found my people and loved it. And that's where I kind of started acting. So before then, you weren't into sports, but like what kind of kid was Tony Hale? Like, were you naturally funny? I would say I was naturally, well, keep in mind, sixth grade down is, I don't know about you, but sixth grade down is a blur.

I don't know if I was like had severe trauma. I mean, I was going to say, that's my first guess, but I don't want to go there if you're not ready. I don't know. I don't know. I have been to many third. and we have dug deep. But I just do not remember. My MBialx breakdown is supported by Superpower.

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my ambiolics breakdown to help support the show. Sixth grade down much. So I think I was, I think I was a very, without using the word spas, I had a lot of energy. Got it. You know, and it was like just not knowing what to do with that energy. And I think, and also, honestly, I was, I do remember in middle school, I was bullied pretty bad. Because, I mean, I was a sensitive, creative kid that didn't fit the kind of southern sports mold. And so I was bullied. And I think as hard as that was, because, I mean, I was a sensitive, because, I was a sensitive, kid that.

some of the bullying went into high school, as hard as that was, that kind of develops a sense of humor. Like, you're either going to laugh it off, laugh with them, make a joke to yourself when they bully you, like, well, that wasn't very nice way. And you'll say, call them something in your mind. You kind of develop this comedic defense system, you know, and I think that kind of formed from there. Amazon Pharmacy Presents Painful Thoughts. I read somewhere that the average Americans spends 13 hours a year waiting in pharmacies for prescriptions. Clearly, I am above average. I thought being above average would feel better.

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So speaking of defense systems, when did you first present with symptoms of asthma? Ever since I was, I can remember, which is obviously not much. I was going to say, sixth grade down, we have no idea. Sixth grade down, it's a blur. But through pictures and like, you know, we would go on trips, my mom would say, oh, yeah, that was the trip that we had to take you to the hospital, hospital because you were having asthma attack. And I was, you know, inhalers were like my baby blanket.

Like it was just like I was always, always had an inhaler attached to me. So ever since I was little, it was always kind of a, just almost a partner of that you, like an obnoxious partner that you learned how to deal with. Did your brother have asthma or as the athletic one, he did not? Got it. He did not. No. Can you do us, you know, do us a solid here?

Can you describe, let's say someone doesn't know what asthma is. And obviously there's different kinds, but can you describe sort of what asthma is? Ooh. What is asthma? I guess what I can describe what people would probably connect with the most is the feeling of it. it's as though something that we take, obviously I'll take from granted,

just kind of going, it's like somebody just coming away and taking your life source away. All of a sudden, your chest, where usually you have this, you know, opening,

where you have free breathing and you feel confident in that. It's like somebody, it's like all of a sudden you're breathing through a straw. And there's a restriction that happens in your chest that it's like,

you just feel like, am I going to die? I'm not getting my life sore. and when you're a kid, and it's all you've known, you get very kind of used to it, but it doesn't mean it's scared, but I remember driving to the hospital with my mom and like trying to push up my body

in hopes of kind of creating a longer opening to kind of get air up. And then, you know, typically hospitals are terrifying for kids. They were just like an oasis for me because when that needle, when that shot hit my arm, I could breathe again. So it was just like, I couldn't wait to get that shot. through my body. So it's a, it's a terrifying. I'm actually working now with

AstraZeneca on this campaign for, it's this this kind of certain kind of asthma that might be inside your body called Eocinophils and you get this blood test. It's not really, I always thought asthma was outside your body. This is something inside your body, but I've loved connecting with other asthmatics because we, just like you said, like your friend that you do your podcast with, there is an immediate understanding of, yeah, you know what it feels like. You know, you know what, when somebody says, people just like associate, yeah, I'm always going to be able to breathe. When you really think I'm, I might not be able to breathe

tonight. It is like, it's immediate terror. Well, and it's not just Jonathan. I also have asthma. And also, I'm a highly allergic person and I'm an anaphylactic, you know, risk. Like, I'm all, I'm all the, no, I mean, I'm all the goodies, you know, Eastern European Jews. We just get it all. Congratulations. Yeah. So, um, You know, the thing that, and I did not have severe asthma as a child, you know, I had all those kind of like early precursor things that when I was finally diagnosed as an adult, because sometimes it will present after a case of bronchitis, you know, I was like, oh, that's why I could make

that weird whistling sound sometimes, you know? And, you know, it's like, I would whistle and I remember I would like show my friends, like, listen, and it's like, anyways, I was a strange child. But I do remember that one of our closest family friends, the older daughter in that family had asthma, and she was always in and out of the hospital. And it was terrifying. And I think this is something that people, and this is kind of what I was really eager to talk to you is, you know, this is one of those things that a lot of people don't understand these kind of conditions because they're virtually invisible. You know, obviously you can see someone freaking out. But I will say that having an asthma attack, it can look like a panic attack because you think you're going to die.

It feels like you cannot breathe. And I remember the first time I was given an inhaler, I was given like the regular one that I had to use all the time. And then I was given the quote, emergency inhaler. And I was given specific instructions. Do not use this after 3 p.m. And I was like, F that. What does that mean? And sure enough, if you use that thing after 3 p.m., you will not go to sleep.

It's like being on speed. But the first time that I used it, it was like I had lungs. And my whole existence had been operating with no lungs. I mean, I know as a scientist that's not even, doesn't make sense. But that's what it felt like. You feel it. And with that emergency inhaler, it hits your body. And you all of a sudden have more breath, more air.

You don't feel. You said restricted. It's like a restriction and a constriction. But what I wanted to sort of have you highlight, and, you know, I don't know if you had a conscious experience of this, but when you have that kind of, you know, condition that you, you know, live with, there's sort of an underlying baseline of anxiety that has to exist because you're operating at a level of vigilance that, again, it's an invisible thing. Like, people would say, like, oh, just get over. Like, take some water. I mean, if I had a nickel for every time somebody like, just breathe better. Like, you know, walk it off.

But the kind of built in anxiety, and especially for children, it can be really terrifying to always be kind of, I mean, I read a quote of yours, you know, kind of like, where's the closest hospital? But in your mind, like, you carry that with you all the time. For people who have Crohn's, you hear a lot of similar descriptions of like, people can't tell what's going on or even, you know, all sort of colitis or all those kind of indes. people can't tell what's going on, but your internal state is one of constant vigilance. Do you remember feeling that, or is it something you more reflect on as an adult? Oh, yeah. I don't. It's so funny. I mean, even hearing you say that, I resonate with everything, it's all I've known. I was doing a show years and years ago, and I, they said it was going to be, I don't know, somehow I didn't connect the dots when I was reading the script, but it was shot in a horse bar.

and I have a terrible allergy to horses. Yeah. And I don't know. I just, you know, maybe it was a typical actor thing. It was like, I want the job. I can clare ton it up. I don't know, like maybe the horses aren't there. I just, you know, stupidly rationalized in my head.

Did you just say maybe the horses aren't there? Yeah, because maybe it was the barn and the horses weren't there. I was just kind of a dumb. I know. Again, active brain. So I get there and obviously I have an attack. And for another stupid thing, for some reason, I didn't have my inhaler, and I always have my inhaler.

I went to a function last night, and the first thing I think is I got to get my inhaler. Which pocket do I want to put the inhaler in? That's the first thing. Whenever I travel, it's like, where do I put the inhaler? And I didn't have my inhaler. And when I tell you, I started breathing bad, and somebody in the crew had an inhaler. And it was like an angel just parted the crowd. That inhaler became a lifeline.

I know that I can breathe through that inhaler. And it's like there's just a very Pavlovian thing with that inhaler for me. And you mentioned anxiety. Yeah. When I was in high school, I was doing the show Little Abner. And I was Mary and Sam. And I had to sing a solo. I was very nervous about singing the solo.

And I was having some kind of asthma issues, but it was also mixed with anxiety. And back then, no one really talked about panic attacks. And I got this really weird connection between my, asthma and panic. I always had it, but like, I never had a panic attack. Well, anyways, I had a mixture where I was breathing a little weird and then I had a panic attack, but I didn't know what a panic attack was. And I was like, oh, it was just, and I started using my inhaler and it wasn't working. Then you start panic even more and you're like, wait, if my inhaler is not working, I can't, what is this? What is this? And no one's talking about it. Well, then since then,

well, since then there was a real kind of strong, the anxiety got stronger and stronger with my asthma, like, is there a hospital nearby? And this is when I was in college. I remember being on a trip going on some retreat and I was in a bus. And even I had my inhaled with me, I had this thought that we're going up a mountain. If I have an asthma attack, I can't get to a hospital. I had a panic attack. The sweating where you're just like, I can't get off the bus. And so then, you know, by the grace of God, like worked on a lot of therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, all that stuff. But of course, I mean, it makes so much sense like that anxiety is associated with asthma. Working with astrozenic of these people, it's like, I love talking about that.

I'm like, guys, yes, about the restriction of the breathing, yes, about the inhaler, but let's talk about the anxiety that's associated with it. People are telling you that they're feeling like their life sources being taken away from them and they don't know when. The uncertainty of when it can come like that, that is so much anxiety. I'm also wondering, I had a friend when I was young, when I was young. I had a friend in elementary school and junior high, and she was epileptic. And this was at a time when like no one, like, we barely knew what it was.

Like, the medication that they had to put this poor child on was so heavy and it was so sedating. And it was like a whole thing. And when we would go to like, you know, our weekends of like synagogue, we would go to, you know, little camp weekends in Malibu, whatever. And like she had to like go to the nurse. And it was like a big deal to take her medicine. And I remember it was like, you know, there was a certain combination of kind of her being embarrassed and also kind of having to turn that into sort of being excited by the attention because like there was no way to kind of like make it make sense because she didn't just want to be like, oh, poor me. So it was kind of like it just sort of became like, oh, going to, you know, and she would kind of over talk about it.

And I'm wondering if you resonate kind of with either of those. you know, of like, because, you know, I'm thinking of people who might be listening or people who have, you know, younger kids. Like, do you have any memories specifically, you know, of feeling embarrassed or situations that, you know, kind of were hard where you had to sort of summon, you know, some other strength to kind of get through? Yeah. I mean, I think that's a really, I've never thought about it that way, but that's a really interesting thought because, I mean, I remember sleeping over people's houses, you know, spend the night and having an asthma attack and mom and dad having to come pick me up. because, you know, I was the one that was sitting, sitting up straight at the wall, trying to breathe and everybody else is asleep. And I'm like, I'm wheezing, can you come get me? And then, like, why are you leaving?

I mean, all that kind of embarrassment. But to your point, I never thought about that. Like, that might have transition and just kind of making a joke out of it, you know? And because, honestly, you always see those characteristics of like the nerd kid, always has the inhaler, you know, and it's just like, oh, funny, funny him. I mean, the guy with the big glasses, of course, he's. He's got the inhaler. And it's like you wonder if that comes from, that's a tremendous fear.

And you're going to kind of make a joke out of it. Yeah, guys, I got to get my inhaler. Yeah, here I go. Again, the nerd doing that. And then you become the clown. You know, that kind of might have formed out of that. That's a really interesting thought. And when, if you don't mind me asking, when did you get into therapy?

Oh, I love talking about therapy. I got into it. Well, I've been off and on for probably since, probably since like the mid-90s. But I would say when I was on Arrested Development, that was my dream. Getting a sitcom was my dream. And when I was in New York, I liked it, but I was like, God, if I can just get an agent, if I can just get a sitcom, this will make. And then I got, I not only not, I not only got a sitcom, but I got a sitcom with amazing writing, amazing actors, just a fantastic opportunity. And I found myself it not satisfying the way I thought it was going to satisfy me.

And it really freaked me out because I had given this a lot of weight. And I really woke. I was after Resto was finished, we were canceled. The same month that I had my daughter, the show was canceled. We bought a house. And I was like, oh, shit, what's going on? And I realized that most of my life I had not been very present. And to the point where I think that's where my memory is shot,

I was just not a very present person, even in New York, not very present, always looking ahead, always dreaming, which is not a bad thing, but always kind of checked out. And it's that whole thing. If you're not practicing contentment where you are, you're not going to be content when you get what you want. Can you say that again? If you're not practicing, contentment where you are, you're not going to be content when you get what you want. Wow. And I feel like I got what I want, but since I had just not been practicing being present, and I'm not saying you're going to love your life,

the time, but finding moments of contentment, moments of satisfaction, that it's not going to happen when you get that big thing. And so once arrested finished, I just had this kind of crisis where I was like, and anyways, that's where a lot of this children's book that I created came up with in the show about Archibald's next big thing, about not looking to the next thing and missing where you are. I love that when something came up that you kind of felt the need to sort of work on, this sounds like a very me thing, which is why it's like you spot it, you got it. You're like, I'm going to work on this and then create a tremendous amount of work

and labor and creative energy around it. I will write a series of books about what I just paid therapists to help me with. I know. I'm going to make this work for me. But it was also just like such a, and you've had these too where you're just like this moment of, wow, this is such, this seems so obvious to try to be present, but I suck at it.

I'm such shit at it. You know, I'm just not good at it. And so that's where that came from. So just through therapy talking about that, but then out of therapy came a lot of talking about anxiety. And I really felt that I, at that point, I still every now and then I felt more like a victim to my thoughts and my feelings, where I was just like overwhelmed, you know,

where you're just like tons of feelings, tons of thoughts, tons of what-ifs, tons of, I've lived in what-if my entire life with asthma. What if I'm there and I'm an inhaler? What if this happens? What if I don't get a job? And it's like you just kind of felt overwhelmed by, or I did. And that's when I started getting into kind of cognitive behavioral therapy, where I learned to try to step outside myself and become more an observer of my thoughts

and my feelings rather than identifying with everything that comes my way. So, I mean, that's, that's, that's. also one of the most powerful messages of meditation is the notion of kind of, you know, the visualization I have, especially when I'm trying to meditate, but like my mind is racing. I picture myself laying like, I know this might sound weird. Well, you know, I picture myself laying in a stream, like, like with my, you know, back on like pretty rocks. It's not cold. It's not uncomfortable. There's nothing weird. And I picture the thoughts going over me. And this was actually suggested to me by a music.

friend of mine that there's only so many notes, because I'm a musician as well, that there's only so many notes, right? They can only go together in so many permutations. Picture the notes just like floating over you and just pull what you need to write a song. And I was like, oh, what a cool visual. But I started applying it to kind of meditation in that when I can't stop, like just let the thoughts go, right? You don't attach to them. You just let them kind of flow over. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Commercial Insurance. Trucking is a big job, so Progressive is proud to offer truckers the coverage they need and discounts to help them save. Quote truck insurance in as little as seven minutes at progressive commercial.com.

Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Discounts not available in all states or situations. I also want to ask, you're a person of faith, correct? Yeah, yeah. And, you know, it's funny because, I mean, I grew up with a religious tradition that I, you know, still continue to hold and practice. and, you know, my observance shifts, but kind of the universe doesn't. So, you know, it's more about, like, the human experience of religion is not God. That's the human experience of religion.

But, you know, for me, the universe exists the same way it always has and always will. And anyway, you know, even with all of that training and even with all of that devotion and even with all of my observance, like simple things like this never made their way into my kind of religious practice. But once I sort of learned it from therapy and from meditation and some more of those kind of Eastern, you know, practices, what I've found is that I'm able to then incorporate my faith and my notion of, you know, kind of where I came from religiously into that sort of worldview. And it feels like a coalescence. I don't know if you resonate with that because, you know, I'm very interested, you know, you've been very active, you know, in your faith in a way that a lot of people in. In Hollywood, we don't tend to talk about it a lot. But I'm curious where kind of your religious faith, you know,

feels like it fits in to, you know, your therapy life and your kind of cognitive life. Yeah. Oh, that's a big question. I, you know, when you were talking about laying in the river or laying, you know, and letting the thoughts come over you, there's a practice that I do where I think about if I'm on a raft and I'm on a river. And many times because of control or anxiety, I want to grab the sides.

I just want to grab the sides and control and just try to control my narrative or control whatever. And I just constantly say to them, I say, trust the river. Just trust the river because the river is for you. And because many times I feel like the river is against me. Like things are against me. It's like, no, trust the river, it's for you. And that is how I really have grown to just more and more see God that he really is for me. And there's something about, you know, when it comes to faith, I don't know if you've ever gotten this, but people look at faith as a crutch. You know, they say, well, it's kind of a crutch. You know, you can do it yourself and stuff.

And I'm like, God, life is hard, man. Give me two crutches. We're not, we're not, I don't want to do this by myself, you know. having for me having the guidance of a loving god to stand with me and assure me and having the peace and the support and also having releasing to a higher power of things that i don't get because for some stupid-ass reason people in the faith world at least in the christian world i can speak up feel like they need to have all the answers and they need to have like the pretty get the package or the pretty bow on it like this is what you need to do to it's like no

We are spinning on a planet. There is so much uncertainty. There are so many questions I have. But the surrender to the higher power God for me, that surrender is saying, I don't know. I don't know. And I'm going to trust that you know, and I'm going to trust your path,

and I'm just going to keep walking. And seeing the manifestation of that spirit within me and what I get from that is that's what just keeps me close to God, definitely. That's beautiful. So, so well said. Were you raised in the, like, were you raised religious, or is this something that you kind of took on later in life? Well, we kind of jumped around. I was raised Lutheran, and then we went to the south. It was Southern Baptist. And, you know, it's very easy for me to bash kind of those experiences. But I think the older I get, the more I look at, yeah, it's, you know, that world was very much

about do's and don'ts and it was very it kind of was a formula rather than a relationship with God and I yeah it's it's easy for me but it's like you know what that kind of I'm thankful for that somewhat foundational things that I learned and to your point of when you were laying on the water and grab stuff in the air I feel like God used that because I the things that I grabbed I still have with me and then I left the rest you know This is a, I mean, I hope you're not insulted by this question, but I am curious. And if you don't like it, you don't have to answer. How do you reconcile your challenges, specifically your, let's say your asthma, with kind of your God concept?

Sure. You know, I mean, asthma is the smallest thing, you know, compared to the suffering and things that people go through. I mean, it's, my friend just got back from Africa dealing with children who were trafficked. Trafficked. And you're just like, what? You know, I don't. And again, that's where I have so many questions. I have so many questions.

I do think, I don't want to get too, not to get too meta, but it's like, I kind of see, for instance, if I I, if I'm married to someone, but I made that person marry me, and I said, you're going to be marrying me, you're going to be with me. That's not real love because that person deserves, if that person chooses me, then that's love. And I feel like God is a God of love, and God is a God of health and healing. And I don't feel like, I feel like the human race has made some shitty ass choices. And unfortunately, over generations and generation, generation, just horrific stuff has happened. And God's intervention to that, I love when Mr. Rogers says there's always helpers. I don't see the bigger picture. I do think there are always helpers. And I do think

God intervenes in ways that I'm not going to even know until, you know, I see it one day and see that big picture. And I really do believe he does. But all that crap of the choices and just leaning And I do think there's evil and leaning towards evil. I don't understand it, but I think it's just like, it's like a snowball that sometimes you're just like, holy shit, this is so out of control sometimes. I don't know if that makes sense. No, that does. It does make sense.

I have a 16-year-old and I have a 13-year-old. I have a 15-year-old. We're in that teenage stage. What are you like as a dad? What if I was like, amazing? I hope I'm a good one. I mean, I love my daughter as you love your kids. Like, I've never known a love like with a human being like this,

where you're just like, huh. But, you know, I make mistakes. I like, you know, I remember talking to a friend of mine who's a parent recently and just like the power of when you make a mistake just saying, hey, I'm really sorry. I'm sorry. I said it that way. That was stupid.

Because there have been times my daughter's like, hey, will you just listen and not try to give me an answer? You know? Because all I want to do, there's something called, have you heard of snowplow parenting? No.

Where it's like, you know, obviously we've all heard of helicopter parenting where it's like you hover too much, but there's this new term called snowplow parenting where all you just want to take all the challenges away in front of them.

Oh, yeah. Like if they leave their violin, just let them not have the violin for that day. Exactly. Instead of trying to get to school. I want to bring that, I want to bring that violin to them because I don't want her to face that challenge. And it's like, I have to let her make her mistakes.

I have to let her face those challenges. But, you know, I want to give her the answer. I'm like, well, I've got the formula if you do this and this. Also, you're a dude. Sometimes dudes just have the answer. It's like, and we're right. We're right. But it's like just being able to say, I'm sorry.

I'm really sorry that I should have just listened and just let you, you know, event and and leave it at that. That's okay. You know, it's okay to, it's okay to sit in that space. Were you raised like that? Because Jonathan and I talk a lot about how like my parents were never wrong. I'm a hundred percent certain that like that was the way like post-World War II people were taught. Like just like my parents were born during World War II and my grandparents were immigrants from Eastern Europe just in the programs leading up to the Holocaust. So like we had that whole thing. But it was like, you know, I don't remember my mom like ever playing.

a game with us. You know what I mean? Like she was always in the kitchen. She was always cleaning. Like even when she was working at a preschool, she also was like breakfast was on the table before my dad was a teacher before we all went. Just like that woman freaking did everything. But she was also like always right. Like they were always right. And it's been so imp- and they did the best they could, you know, for that era. But one of the most empowering things, this is when I talked to, you know, people who are just starting to have like the discipline conversations with their five-year-old or however old, you know. I always say, kids love to hear that you messed up, meaning it is such an important thing.

It doesn't make you less powerful. It doesn't make them, you know, more emboldened to be violent. Like, it literally shows them that you're an older human. You're a bigger human. You're a more powerful, stronger human. But you're just a human. But again, I was not raised like that. They were God.

I mean, they really were my higher power. Were you raised, like, similar to the way you're parenting, or was it different for you? I, I think, I mean, without getting into, you know, like every family, there's different there's different varieties and there's different aspects of mine. But I think, to your point, with your parents and my parents, it's so much based in control. You know, like if I can do this, you know, if we do this, if we put on this image, we can control the narrative. I can, if I let, if I force you to think this certain way, if I don't allow you the freedom to question or if I don't allow you, then we're going to stay in the safe space because once we go over those parameters, that's being out of control and that's too scary. And me as a parent, like, I have to go, I'm out of control.

I mean, I, I don't have the answers and it feels out of control and all I wanted to protect you. I don't know. I mean, the social media world right now is, it's like I just have to take a deep breath and go, I don't know how to navigate that with a teenager. I don't. And I mean, I do. I try to. But it's talk about the Wild Wild West. I don't know. It feels out of control. And I have to sit in that uncertain, uncontrolled space and go, God, I'm going to surrender that to you. I mean, I envy my religious friends and family for whom it is not an option. And I know that's not. not necessarily the solution for everyone, but yeah, I have family and they really don't consume media. It's like a whole other thing. And, you know, it's definitely something that I wish sometimes I could just make it go away. Here's an interesting question. Is your daughter asthmatic? She's not. Can you imagine? I mean, I'm just wondering, like, was that a concern of yours? You know, did you ever think, like, oh my gosh, what would that be like if she is asthmatic? I mean, do you think about how you, you know, do you see your parents differently, you know, in dealing with you when you became a parent thinking about that?

Yeah. I, it's so funny, not the asthma for me. I think it's, it's other stuff for me. Because, I mean, there's something about the asthma that I feel like there's been so many developments like the management of it. I think I could somewhat handle. It's more the emotional of dealing with rejection, that kind of stuff. It's more. dealing one day when somebody does, you know, she does go through that, or she goes to these heartbreaks or she, you know, just stuff like that happens in life. And, you know, like us, you and I deal with crap and she's going to have her own crap. It's that kind of stuff that I have to realize I'm powerless and be with her and just hopefully be a helper to her. you know because you know the crazy thing is when when I when I see a child speaking of asthma when I see a child who has asthma there is this just like oh I you just want to hug them like I get it I get it and there's such power when you have or even anxiety panic attacks when I find

out someone's had a panic attack or is going through a panic attack it's just like just to be there and be like hey listen this is going to pass I know it feels like it's not that is power that kind of understanding and empathy and to be that helper to them. And I hope I'm the same helper to her when she goes to that. But I dread that day. I dread that day because if it's a stranger, I can have that somewhat of a disconnect. When it's your daughter, it's like, God, give me the strength, you know. So awesome. Just to talk to you. You have such an interesting, you know, lens on all these different, you know, kind of things that all somehow combine, you know. It comes from. so much pain.

Right. I get it. You have some really exciting projects coming up, and I just wanted to give you the opportunity to kind of talk about whatever you want us to look out for. I mean, the being the Ricardo's sounds absolutely incredible. It's a beautiful film. It just sounds like such an amazing thing to be part of. And also, you're the villain in Clifford the Big Red Dog.

Is that correct? I am. I am. I'm a villain. I'm the big red dog. Is that a live action? It is a live action movie. And it's, I don't know if you have the chance to see it because, no, there's been no reason for you to go see it.

But it's a really, it's, I don't know if you've worked with kind of live action animation, but. I thought you were going to say, I don't know if you've worked with a big red dog before. Because, ma'am, it is astonishing. No, it is just what they can do. I don't even, even talking about it, I feel like such an idiot, because it's, it's a, because it's, It baffles me. How they can take a big red dog, make him run through the New York, run through New York, real fur like this dog.

You're just like, what the? I don't even get it. And even when someone explains it to me, I don't get it. So I have a lot of admiration for all those people. It's crazy. And you first published your first children's book in 2014. And then it was turned into an animated series, correct, for Netflix? Yeah.

Can you tell us just, you know, again, for people who don't know about it, can you just tell us what that is so people can look for that as well? Because I think it's really, really cool. Oh, thanks. I really love it. Okay, so the book was called Archibald's next big thing, and it kind of came from that being present thing. And it's about this little chicken who gets this card in the mail that says your big thing is here. And he's like, where? And he goes on all these adventures, but every time he's on an adventure, he's like, I've got to get to my next big thing. And this bee comes along and the bee's like, you got to just be, man.

you gotta just be. And then in the end, he realizes that his big thing really is here. Like, my big thing is talking to you right now. That's my big thing. My big thing is not somewhere else. And so with the series, Archibald, the chicken now sees everything like it's a big thing. He sees the best in everybody, he sees the best in humanity and situations. And when I tell you, this chicken for a good four years was my role model.

Like I just Just not even Positive isn't even saying it enough Just the fact of Gravitating to characters That maybe other people forgot And seeing the best in those characters When there was a label put on a character

He saw it beyond that It was like no what's going Like just that kind of perspective Towards life was so great And I love this chicken I love this chicken I'm gonna ask why a chicken Why a chicken?

Good question I was at an L.A. art show years ago before the book and I met this guy named Victor Huckabee and he had sketched Archibald and Archibald was named after his great uncle I think and I was a big fan of Beaker on the Muppet Show. Of course. I mean, who was it? I loved Beaker. I know and he the shape of his head reminded me at Beaker and also yellow is my favorite color. Yep, see there he is and there's the B. Yeah. And I just gravitated to this character and I had to start a conversation with him. And we became friends and started talking about doing a children's book.

And then my friend Tommy by Agni joined us. And that's where the book came about. That's super awesome. That's really, really cool. This has been so much fun. I do have two more quick questions. The first one doesn't need to be quick. But like, I'm going to say something really weird.

But I think you get it. You seem very normal. And what I mean is, you know, I've been in Hollywood. my, you know, since I'm 11 years old and, you know, kind of actively on the sitcom circuit and, you know, since I was about 14 and I'm, you know, quite a bit older now. You know, you meet a lot of lovely people and you meet a lot of very, very successful people. And there's often, you know, a very kind of, there's a kind of veneer, you know, around them. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I just mean there's, there's a little bit of distance, you know, that, that, that, that,

many people in our industry do kind of keep. But talking to you, you don't seem to, like, you're very open, you're very kind of vulnerable. Do you, I mean, do you attribute that to anything in particular? Is that just kind of like who you are? I mean, you know what I mean. Like, we've seen each other at the Emmy Awards. I lost the year you won, you know. Yeah.

But, you know, there's definitely, like, there's a vibe that I don't get from you. And I just, it's really lovely. That's nice. And I'm just curious if you think about that, if you know about it, you know. I do know what you're talking about in terms of that veneer. I really try hard. It's a real challenge to not, I'm sure you experienced this too, to not judge it. Because it's, it's, I just, because I have to recognize, you know, not to get too into it,

but I remember doing this character years ago. and the character was such a douchebag and so manipulative and so full of himself and I was like I hate people like this I really am not, you don't want to do this character and this acting teacher said Diane Castle she said

you have to realize that's inside of you and the truth is I have had arrogant moments in my life many I have been manipulative I have moments of being a douchebag and I'm trying lately to really try and see myself in other people because it's really hard because I want to just be like anyways.

But to answer your question, I do see that. And I have weirdly, not weirdly, I think there is faith associated. I know there's faith associated with us. There's this perspective that I have, not in a dark way, but I just kind of many times find myself just going, again, we are spinning on a planet. This is fleeting. You know, people that won an Oscar 10 years ago, some of them are dead.

you know it's like and it's it's forgotten and that kind of is always tends to be and when i meet somebody who i want to immediately judge there's a part of me that wants to go up to them and say hey man you're going to die you're going to die we're all going to die and your legacy is that you were a doucheback that's your legacy what a what a bummer what an absolutely bummer i have so many people I want to play this for. I'll be like, listen to Tony Hill. But it's such a bummer. And the thing is, you actually can make today a different choice to start treating people differently. And you can change your legacy. You can change your legacy. And I don't do that because I really don't think that would make a difference if I said that because I think that would, they're probably not in a place to receive it.

But I have to remember that. Like, you know, what am I giving importance and what is stuff that's really going to have longevity. And that tends to, and again, I follow the time, I have moments of arrogance, I have moments of entitlement, all that crap. But it's like, I have to wake, this therapist one time said to me, said, you have to wake yourself up a hundred times a day to where you are. And it's like, because many times that what ifs and narratives go all different kinds of places. And it's like, you know what? And he also says, activate the five senses. Like, what are you hearing, smelling, seeing, touching, tasting. And it's like, I have to just kind of activate those. And it's like, I have to just kind of activate those just to ground myself because I'll be somewhere else.

Anyways, massive tangent, that was. No, it's been such a delight. I wish I could hug you. Like, I really... I know. I mean, this is a really, really significant conversation. I'm so grateful to you for talking to us. And thank you so, so much.

Do you know what? Not to plug. Please do. Plug away. I'm plugging because I believe in this. And I feel like it really speaks into what we're talking about. The show that I'm doing, I'm starting to shoot it again in January, it's called The Mysterious Benedict Society.

And the first season talks so much about the noise of society and the truth rising above that. And this one character, Benedict, gathers these kids because he sees something unique in them. He sees empathy. He sees, you know, these kids don't have superpowers, but their superpower is their intelligence, their creativity, their empathy. and that's what brings change.

And I feel like we are in a town where it's your, you know, it's your resume, it's your talent, it's all this kind of stuff, that's what showcases you. But it's like the power is in the empathy, how you're seeing people, how we treat people on set. You know, the truth rising above the noise. And so like, I'm really, I love this show and I do love to talk about. So awesome. Thank you so much.

Golly, gee, that was an extremely delightful. delightful conversation. And I happen to have not been alone in the studio. Obviously, we have Scott here, who's always with me. But we actually have Aaron fine. She is fine. Who works with us at Miami-BiLx Breakdown. And I thought we would slide her in here for our conclusion. Aaron handles a smattering of things, so many things. She's the merch person. She's kind of our social media liaison. And you also have asthma. I do. Did you identify in particular with some of the asthma stuff? Very much. Actually, when I found out that asthma was going to be discussed, the first thing I thought about was, I wonder if some connection between panic attacks and asthma is going to be

discussed, because I don't hear that very often. And that's kind of a theme in my life. So I was blown away when he brought that up. Had you had asthma also as a child? At five is when it developed. Wow. And it was kind of a scary experience for me too. And do you manage it now with an inhaler? Do you have an inhaler that you? I do. So my gosh, there were so many things I resonated with. But I also, when I leave the house, the first thing I think about is do I have my inhaler or, you know, what pocket can I put it in? Does my purse, you know, not a tiny clutch. I have to fit my inhaler, you know, which I think asthmatics can really relate to. But in terms of management, it's gotten better as I've gotten older. It's gotten better in terms of understanding my diet.

It's gotten better because I understood the connection to allergies, which you mentioned. Yeah. So managing allergies changed my relationship with asthma in a major way. Well, and also a lot of mental health stuff that we talk about here relates to the immune system, you know, and, you know, this is one of those mind-bodied. connection moments where, you know, the kind of baseline that we have can hurt our immune system and our ability to fight off simple allergens that otherwise we may be able to process. So it's kind of, it's this, you know, it's a cycle. It's a kind of snake eating its own tail thing.

But he's just, I mean, Tony is, it's kind of like I want to read the things he's read. I want to go to the places that he's gone. Like, he sounds so, what words do you say? Like, grounded. So much wisdom. Very wise human. So articulate. So willing to be open and vulnerable.

So, but not in like a, in a very sincere way. Incredibly sincere and genuine. I just, I really love talking to him. I want to, like, I want to be his friend. I love that he kind of also started off with this notion of, like, the things that you think you want. Oh, my gosh. Like you can get them and still. Like it's so not about those things because so many people, we do, we live for that next thing.

If I can just do this. If I just have this much money. If I just, you know, whatever it is. And I just love that like the time that he actually entered therapy was at a time when you'd think like he's got it all. Yeah, just really so awesome. Erin, since Jonathan's not here, can you introduce our moments of peace and calm? usually he says like, Ma'am, what's your moment of peace and calm?

Myam, what's your moment of peace and calm? Moments of peace and calm, Myam realizes something. I had a really good moment of peace and calm amidst a really tumultuous moment, set of moments in my brain. I had a very, very frustrating email exchange with someone who I have,

I don't want to say, I have, this person and I have a very difficult time communicating. whatever it is like in the universe. I actually had this thought. I'm like, am I secretly in love with her? Like the emotions that these interactions bring up, the only thing that I can compare the intensity to is deep love. So let's just put that aside.

But let's just say that the communication was not, you know, it was doing what it does. And it was, and I felt it in my body. I felt what I know is my blood pressure rising. And like this is, this does not happen a lot. I felt it. It was like my heart and like, you know, the word is palpitations. I don't mean to be clinical, but it was like, it was like, and I felt it like, and I felt rage.

Like when you talk about seeing red, I felt like I need to break something. I need to hurt something. Like, it was so intense. And I looked at my clock. I had like 20 minutes till I had to be back on set. This was like on my lunch break. I was like catching up. And I was like, I just need to like keep hammering out these emails.

I'm respond to this one. I'm going to say this. And I'm going to point out this and blah. And I literally had a moment that I couldn't have had if I had one less hour of therapy, one less meeting, one less, you know, hug with Jonathan, whatever it was. I just, I spoke to myself, you know, and I said to myself, I didn't say it out loud, not at that point yet. But I said, like, you have a choice right now. You can keep this going for 20 more minutes and carry it through the rest of your workday

when you have to be present, happy, remember lines, whatever. It's also very hard to remember lines when my blood pressure is like that. So like I knew. I said, or you can force yourself to shut that computer. Just shut it. Nothing else needs to be done right now. And I chose a meditation. And I was like, I can't.

I can't even focus. But I forced myself to just stay. And I realized I could still feel my heart. And I was like, there is one solution to this and it's my breath. And like at that moment, I was able to summon like all the things, you know, not all, but many things that I've been told, you know. And by 10 minutes, my heart rate had slowed down. Wow. I was still frustrated.

Like, I could go back there in a second. But whatever it was, it worked. And I was like, that's a moment of grace. It's a moment of grace because on any other day, I might not have had the patience to do it. Totally. But in that moment, I was able to do it. And I was able to... I don't know if I slept for the other 10 minutes,

but I was in a, you know, a quieter space. And sometimes it just takes listening to some other voice, you know, meaning whether it's the voice inside you, whether it's God, whether it's, you know, the meditation. I use Insight Timer. They don't sponsor this show, but they should. You know, I just use the free meditations there. And I just listen to that person's voice.

And yeah, every time my mind went away, I just, I gently put it back. One of the meditation teachers I like says, it's like when you're training a puppy. You don't need to be mean to the puppy. You don't need to judge the puppy when it goes away. You gently pick it up. You put it back down and you say stay. Like, that's what you do with your mind.

It was a very special, special moment. Good teaching moment for myself. Thank you, Erin, for being part of this wonderful, wonderful time we had with Tony Hale. Who's welcome. follow us on our Instagram account at Biolic Breakdown. Go to Biolicbreakdown.com. That's B-I-A-L-I-K-B breakdown.com. Make sure that you are a subscriber to my YouTube channel,

which is where you can watch all of the madness go down. And make sure to subscribe on Spotify and all the places that you get podcasts. It really does matter. And it really does help make more. Helps us make more. All right. From my breakdown to the one that I hope you never have. I'll see you next time.

It's my and be all X breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fiction. And now she's going to break down. It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Commercial Insurance.

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