Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - UFO Expert: “We Have Government Proof. We’re Not Alone in the Universe.”

Episode Date: October 8, 2024

SHOCKING UFO SECRETS REVEALED!   Former head of the U.S. GOVERNMENT'S Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP)—the PENTAGON unit that researched UFOs—Luis Elizondo explains why we deserve the TRUTH about what is out there & what might happen if we admit we're NOT ALONE in the universe.   He opens up about how he was recruited by mysterious government strangers to uncover the truth about Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAPs) and why he risked EVERYTHING to blow the whistle, making this previously TOP SECRET information finally accessible to the public!   The evidence of alien encounters he shares will leave you questioning everything. From laser burns to encounters with mysterious beings—Luis dives deep into the shocking testimonies of alleged witnesses & abductees!   Before you think MBB is going off the deep end into conspiracy land, Luis' work has successfully led to U.S. Congress passing the UAP Disclosure Act, requiring Congressional approval on taxpayer money used for UAP research!   Are We Ready to Make Contact with Extraterrestrials?   Why this matters—This isn’t just about aliens; it’s about national security and the future of humanity. Luis explains the political consequences of our cosmic ignorance & why understanding UAPs is an act of patriotism!   Luis also breaks down: - Why governments are keeping UAP info secret - 2 types of aliens witnesses report encountering most - Extraterrestrial evidence retrieved from the infamous Roswell, New Mexico site - How UAP outperform any known human tech (What exactly makes UAPs not of this world!) - What is humanity's place in the universe? - What’s the deal with UAPs targeting our nuclear capabilities? - Benefits of healthy skepticism when considering evidence - Why governments benefit from stigma & taboo - Possible theories for what extraterrestrials could want with us - Technological evidence proving warping space & time is possible   Join us on MBB as we unpack scientific data supporting the likelihood of extraterrestrial life!   Luis Elizondo's Book, IMMINENT: Inside the Pentagon’s Hunt for UFOs: https://www.harpercollins.com/products/imminent-luis-elizondo?variant=42538152165410   Ground News: Go to http://groundnews.com/break to get 40% off the unlimited access Vantage plan.     BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We always assume and presume we know everything, but we don't. We only perceive and can only really comprehend a very, very, very small sliver of what reality is value. We thought we knew everything at every phase of human development. We thought with absolute certainty that we knew everything about every category of our existence. There is official U.S. government documentation that has been released that was very classified at one point. that has now been released for the public for the Freedom of Information Act process. We were looking at telemetry data. We were looking at electropical data.

We were looking at real data coming in from some of the most sophisticated collection sensor systems on the planet. Top gun pilots that are trained observers that can recognize the silhouette between an SU22 and MiG-25 and an F-16 from 10 miles away. That was further being backed up by gun camera footage and forward-looking infrared footage. And that was being backed up by radar data, both airborne radar, C-Bor and ground-based radar systems. This is more than just someone saying something

or hearing a story. You have three, if not four or five different collection systems, all reporting the same information at the same time, at the same place, under the same circumstances. My background is that of a special agent. If I went to court with this, the jury would have no choice but to convict. We are well beyond reasonable doubt.

And this goes back this type of information, not just decades, but in some cases, potentially millennia. And I think that for me is so, striking because there are official historical records from other governments and other religions that talk about these strange encounters. I don't think it's overstating it to say that you were sitting on humanity's biggest secret. The U.S. government is in possession of pieces of recovered vehicle and biological samples. So what you said, the American taxpayer is footing the bill for these retrievals and the subsequent analysis and reverse engineering efforts, but with no proper

congressional oversight. Humanity acts as if no one else is watching us, like we are alone. But a more advanced life is likely observing us. Humanity needs to become more aware of our place in the universe and the political consequences of our actions. I believe the public has a right to know. It's my and be all-ex breakdown. She's going to break it down for you because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. Hey, I just found out something astounding. Approximately 63% of those of you listening to or watching My Ambialx Breakdown are not subscribed. We know you're listening and we know you're watching because of all of the awesome comments you leave telling us how My Ambielic's breakdown is helping you lead a happier and healthier life.

We love that. But the best way to support our show is to subscribe. It's also the only way to get latest updates and to know when new episodes drop. So anywhere that you listen to podcasts and on YouTube, please subscribe, hit the bell icon so that you know when a new episode. So, we're going to the episode. Hi, I'm Myambialik. I'm Jonathan Cohen. Welcome to our breakdown.

This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to. I'm a little bit speechless as we head into this episode because this is a very different kind of episode than a lot of episodes that we do. I'd say it's the only one of its kind that you will ever hear on Myambialic's breakdown. We're speaking today with Luis Elizondo. Zondo. He's the author of Imminent, which debuted number one in the New York Times bestseller list. He's the former head of the Department of Defense's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. That was his job. He started working at the Pentagon in 2008 after a career in the military.

And one day he got a knock on his door from two people in suits who recruited him to work for the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. He didn't know anything about it. He was specifically recruited because he didn't have any particular leaning towards the things that this program explored. And what Luis came to discover was that he was being recruited to be part of a government organization that specifically was designed to keep information from the American public about UFOs

and UAPs, unidentified anomalous. phenomenon. And before you say, gosh, Miami and Jonathan have gone off the deep end and you're having a conspiracy theorist on, I would like you to know that he resigned as one of the most open secrets in the history of the Pentagon because he believed he was sitting on humanity's biggest secret that was being kept from the American people. He is a whistleblower. He wrote a book called Imminent Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs. What Luis experienced was being called crazy, having his credibility challenged, having his family threatened.

And I'm going to give you the end of the story because I think it's the only thing that might make some of you listen. In 2023, the UAP Disclosure Act was signed, where Congress has to approve taxpayer money being used for UAP research that we didn't know about. And the National Archives have to collect government documents about unidentified anomalous phenomena, technologies of unknown origin, and non-human intelligence.

this is real. Lou is a real person. The things that he discusses are about aliens, but they're more about technologies that we simply don't understand and which the government has known about and has been keeping from us. And his whistleblowing allowed us to read this book,

understand it. He continues to do work in this arena. And Jonathan and I are going to get into every aspect that we can of how he came to believe what he believes, what it means for our place in the universe, and why it matters as an act of patriotism to speak up about this. And we are so honored to be able to give him a platform to do so. Luis Elizondo, welcome to the breakdown.

Break it down. Thank you for having me. It is a sincere honor and privilege to be with you today. You said you have a funny story. Is it for all of our ears before we get started? Okay, so back in the mid-90s, I was attending the University of Miami and like a lot of starving college students. I worked various odd jobs, and one of my jobs was working as a bouncer in Miami at various nightclubs. And there was one in particular, it was if you were into goth and your fair dosage of depression, it was one of those hardcore industrial nightclubs.

And once in a while we'd get some VIPs coming in. Lou, did I have sex with you in the 90s? Is that where this is heading? No. No, actually, on the contrary, you almost got me fired. But here's what happened. True, true story. And I don't know.

So hear me out because you're the only one that can confirm or deny this. But I'm telling you what actually happened. And then it's up to you to decide if you want to, if that was you or not. So once in a while, we'd get these VIPs that would come into the club. And the managers would say, hey, look, take care of the VIPs. So it comes up to me one evening in the office says, Hey, Lou, we have a VIP, go downstairs and go make sure Awesome is taking care of. Now, Awesome, we had a local Cuban kid that was a rapper in the local area that he called himself Awesome.

So I went downstairs and I'm looking in the club and I don't see my Cuban friend. And so I'm looking and looking 10 minutes go by, I go back up. I said, hey, boss, I don't I don't see awesome. He said, awesome. That's what you say. I said, no, I said Blossom. Oh, okay, so I go run downstairs again, and I'm looking around, and I didn't have the guts to go up and talk to my boss. I'm like, okay, I got to find this person named Blossom.

I'm looking around, and I'm looking around. I'm like, Jesus Christ, I don't know. So I go back upstairs to my manager again, this time with my tail really between my legs. I'm like, look, boss, I don't know who Blossom is. And he says, you know, the TV show, Blossom. And I said, boss, I'm poor as hell. This is why I work here. I don't own a TV.

I don't know who Blossom is. So I ran back downstairs. He explained me, and by that time, the other bouncers had said you had left. Now, I could not confirm if that was you who actually went to the clock.

Give you the name of the club. Hold on. I got a couple things here. I got a couple things. What city was this? Miami. So I have family in Miami. And I was in Miami in my teen years,

my cousin Abby, who now lives in Israel. My cousin Abby, and like my family lives, in Miami. So that's the first thing. The second thing is I used to go to goth clubs. Like, that was my thing. There was one on Highland and Willoughby, if anyone's paying attention, I'll use Southern California folks. I used to go to goth clubs as a teenager because I was not awesome. I was blossom. And a lot of clubs, like the scene was like pick up, you know,

especially places where teenagers were allowed in. It was like kind of weird. I didn't want to interact with anybody. I wanted to dance by myself. to The Cure and Dead Can Dance in a corner where everyone is sad. That's why I would go to goth clubs because it was very anonymous. And it was a very welcoming and, you know, kind of very nice community for kids who were misfits. Like back then, it wasn't cool to be a misfit. It was just like, can you find your people? And I found them in goth clubs.

So the club has been shut down, but it was called Mars Bar. And it was at the end of Kendall, at the very end of Kendall Avenue. And that was my first introduction to you. you whether, and you had left. By the time I actually went down to actually do the job that he hired me to do, you had gone, you'd split. So I almost got fired, and that is a true story. Whether or not you were actually there, I can't confirm.

I don't know. I don't remember because most of my brain has been taken up with music lyrics and scripts from Blossom and the Big Bang Theory. But what I can confirm, and this is obviously we'll lead right into what we want to talk to you about, if there's a couple pieces of corroborating evidence that are pointing someone in the right direction. Miami Goth Club and me being a teenager, it's feeling like this probably

is true. Okay. I don't want to throw Miami under the bus, but I would say that in the progression of this podcast, we've had the opportunity to speak to some people that start to

pull back the curtain on what life is really like behind the scenes, and that we have started to learn with some encouragement by me, but she's been hesitant to start to see the other side

of how the world operates. And as we've been inching more towards that, whether it's the industrial food complex or seeing the incentive structures of technology companies or seeing the medical industrial complex, I can go on and on. We came to your work,

which is, potentially one of the biggest areas where there's maybe another side to the story that people haven't been told yet. And now here we are today. I'm a skeptic. And, and, um, and I, I read through every single page of your book. I poured through it like I was analyzing a thesis, you know, like I really, I did not skip. And, um, and, first of all, it's a beautifully written book because it takes us on the journey, not just of your work at the Pentagon, but your journey as a human being. Because it's all kind of related. And, you know, your story, you know, you have this like badass dad, this badass Cuban dad who kind of raised you to be tough, to learn to protect yourself, to learn to be vigilant, skeptical, critical, you know, like really. really an upright, you know, kind of tough guy.

And your mom, who you said was she had Ashkenazi Jewish and her, also Cherokee, French, Lebanese, you know, it's a really interesting couple raised you. And your mom was very, very loving and very compassionate. Sounds like a very creative person, very kind of emotionally sensitive person. You know, you joined ROTC, first junior ROTC, and you sort of turned to a career in the military as, you know, one of the only options that you saw is kind of how you described it, that, you know, kids who came from money had different trajectories. But, you know, you grew up, you know, as this person who had to really defend themselves and protect themselves. And you served this country.

Thank you for your service also. Oh, no, no. Listen, my privilege, my, my honor. I mean, but you've been in some of the most complicated, violent, you know, painful places on this. planet. And, you know, you tell this story, and I want you to sort of walk us through, you, you know, you paint a very like ex-files moment of like you're sitting in your office, you know, you're kind of a career, right, your career military transitioned you to another aspect. I want you to talk about the day that two people showed up in your office while you were having your morning coffee. My Ambialx breakdown is supported by Superpower.

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The reality is, after, well, after high school, I went into college. I studied the sciences. I went to school to be a microbiologist and immunologist with the specific emphasis on parasitology. not parapsychology, the study of parasites, microorganisms. So I've always been very much a disciple of the scientific principles and scientific methodologies. I was always interested in science as well. I had some really good teachers when I was younger that during my formative years really

kind of inspired me towards science. And then later on, in the military, it was a military intelligence and then became a counterintelligence special agent, an investigator where primarily our focus was on capital crimes, including subversion, espionage, and terrorism. And so I've always considered myself just a just a fax man kind of guy. Let the data speak for itself. I'm not really interested in opinions or innuendos or supposition. I'm very, very data-driven. I've always been that way. And it served me quite well, actually, in combat theaters and more than that at the strategic level of intelligence. And in 2008, I had spent a lifelong career all over the world, chasing bad guys.

And at the time, I was with an organization called the Director of National Intelligence. It's kind of the head honcho, if you will, of the intelligence community. After 9-11, the government realized that we had a problem, that the CIA, the FBI, the DOD, they weren't sharing information with each other that had they have done a better job, we might have been able to to avoid the terrorist attacks on 9-11. So a lot of lessons learned, and so I was working there, and unfortunately where I lived at the time, to raise a family, was on a little island in the middle of the Chesa Bay.

So my commute to work was mostly about three hours one way. So if you put that in the context of an eight-hour workday, there were some days I was spending more time in the car than I was at work. There was a very long community, go through D.C. and then over by Langley and pass the agency and finally get to be that a beat. And so in 2008, I was given an opportunity to come back to the Pentagon for a period of time and begin a new program where we would share national level intelligence information

with the state and local and tribal law enforcement authorities and try to figure out how do we take super classified information and distill it down to the people who need it, yet with people who don't have security clearances. So that was my job. So in 2008, it took that opportunity, came to the Pentagon. And shortly thereafter, I was approached by two individuals. And these people didn't tell me who they were, but they had the same color badge I had. So I knew that they were in the intelligence community at least the same commensurate level of security clearance that I did.

So we could talk. And I also worked in a skiff in a classified area. So they came in and they started talking with me, small talk. One of them in particular I felt was trying to assess me. they were very, very observant, typical of what you'd expect an intelligence collection officer to do, right? Looking at your body language and neurolinguistics and things like that. And after about three or four of these meetings, maybe five, they said, hey, look, we'd like you to meet our boss. And they said, sure, no sweat.

So I'll go to the location and I went to this undisclosed location right outside of Washington, D.C. on the other side of the river. In my book, I say where it is, but the Pentagon asked me to remove that day. data, that information, so I unfortunately, I can't say exactly where it was. But it was a covered facility for the Department of Defense. And I met in this building, what should say, the epitome of a rocket scientist is. His name was Dr. Jim Likatsky, exceedingly, exceedingly intelligent, brilliant, perhaps the best rocket scientist we had in the U.S. government. This is a gentleman who can tell you the consumption rate of a first-stage solid rocket motor booster

or the reentry velocity of a Merv, right, coming in from lower orbit. I mean, really the best of the best. The perfect kind of guy you'd want doing a job in aerospace. And so you finally, after some small talk, you looked at me and he said, let me ask you a question. I said, yeah, sure. He said, what do you think of the UFOs? And I thought for a second, and I answered him truthfully. And I said, I don't.

And he said, well, what do you mean? You don't believe in them? And I said, no, that's not what I said. You asked me, what do I think about them? And the answer is I don't. I don't have time. I don't have the luxury to think about them. I'm too busy doing all this other work and I've never considered it.

I wasn't particularly interested as a kid in science fiction. I wasn't, you know, that wasn't. He said, well, that's fair. Looked over its glasses. And he said, but let me just warn you, don't let your analytic bias get the best of you. Because what you may learn may challenge any preconceived notions or narrative you may think. Hold on one second. Hold on.

Did you, did you in that moment feel like this dude is trying to tell me that the government knows that aliens exist? Like, did that occur to you? You know, I didn't know what to think because I wasn't sure if he was testing me. Is he trying to determine, am I psychologically unstable? Am I, you know, prone to flights of fancy? You never really know. So in those particular cases, the best thing did is just be truthful.

Just be honest, right? And whether he's testing me or not, you know, you're just. can answer. I found it a little strange. Long story short, that was really the beginning of a very long and very eye-opening journey into the world of government involvement in the topic of UAP. UAP, Unidentified anomalous phenomenon. It's several names of change over the years, but in the vernacular, you call it UFOs. The introduction to your book says this, unidentified craft with beyond next generation technology. Moving in ways that defy our knowledge of physics, operate with, and this is a direct quote, complete impunity since at least World War II. These craft are not made

by humans, and this is a serious national security issue for which you have given your life, put your own family and your safety at risk to be able to share with the American public as what you believe is a service. That's just the first two pages of your book. This is astounding, Lou, that we're about to talk about the possibility, like the real possibility, that there is information that has categorically been kept from people. I want you to start there. Why is this information kept from people? And I have my own reasons why I think. But why do you think? What's your understanding?

I can tell you from two perspectives. One is wearing my former government hat. There's some very practical reasons. And then there are some more perhaps personal and even esoteric reasons. Let's look at this from a functional perspective and the government. So when we really started noticing

a lot of these UAP was right on the heels of World War II, they started with the observations of food fighters or these luminous balls of light that would seem to surveil and shadow our allied aircraft and even access aircraft. Shortly thereafter, what happened? We entered the atomic age. And that's really when we started beginning

to see a lot of UAP activity in and around sensitive military installations. Not a coincidence. Not a coincidence. So, that's an important part of this, that a lot of this activity is happening around very specific locations. So, sorry, go on.

Right. And this is why this was a national security issue and has been for several decades. And there's been many UFO programs by the U.S. governments, some know Project Blue Book and the conduct report and whatnot. But my program was nothing new. It was just a continuation of a longstanding effort by the U.S. government to study UAP, UFOs, and try to figure out how they work. And so back to your question, why would we as a nation keep this secret for so long? Well, let's look at the backdrop of the Cold War. You had an environment, a strategic environment where the United States and then Soviet Union wherein this winner takes all Cold War, which, by the way, wasn't really cold. It's a bit of a misnomer.

It's pretty hot. We're involved in a lot of proxy wars, a lot of things going on at the time. Imagine playing this chessboard, three-dimensional chess against an enemy. And that's what was happening. And, oh, by the way, they happened to have nukes, and so did we. So the folks at the Pentagon, the generals look and they say, okay, we have this real threat over here. These folks over here have nooks, and we are engaged in trying to control the map here. Meanwhile, we got these other things.

They're not really a threat yet. They're interested in what we're doing. There's not a whole lot we can do about it. So why do we focus on the real threat right now, which is Russia, which is then, you know, Soviet Union, CCC. So that was one of the mindsets. Then you had the other issue, a little bit more pragmatic, that all organizations and institutions, especially governments and religions, they only work because people have faith and confidence in those organizations, right? And governments are designed to be solution-oriented.

So when you have a problem for which there is no solution and there's not really a darn thing we can do about it, that's a really uncomfortable conversation to have with the American people, right? And so the other part of that is maybe we should try to figure out this a little bit more before we decide to have the conversation. Now, the problem with that is there's two lines of thinking on secrecy. Some people in the government believe secrets are like fine wine, and the longer you keep a cork on it, the better it gets. Other people, like me, feel that secrets are perishable.

They have a shelf life. They're like vegetables in your refrigerator. And there comes a point where if you leave them there too long, they begin to rot, they begin to stink, and you've got a bigger mess on your hands, right? They outlive the very reason why they were being classified. And I think that is where we are today. It's to the point where the UAP topic is almost the worst kept secret in the U.S. government. It's pervasive.

And like you said, there's really not a whole lot we can do about it. And it is a national security issue. Now, I don't want to say a national security threat because that's different. You know, I'm not ringing the alarm bells and saying, you know, the British are coming or the British are coming. In this case, you know, the NHI are coming or the flying saucers. What I'm simply saying is it's a national security issue because in order to, you know, the British are coming, you know, the British are coming. to determine if I'm wearing my national security hat, if something is a threat, there's really a very simple calculus, and that is capabilities versus intent. Now, we've seen a lot of the capabilities,

and this goes to your original statement a couple minutes ago about these capabilities, we still have no idea the intent. And so it is impossible to make a determination from a national security perspective, is this or is this not a threat? And so we have to assume in the government it could be until we're sure it's not. You mentioned in the mid-70s, right, was when some of the kind of documentation that we now know exists. This is not me and Lou making it up,

like over martinis, right, at a goth club. This is information that we now know exists. So Robert Pratt was one of the people who was able to interview some of these people, and we have the records, right, of what was reported. There were these orbs that would sort of chase people,

for lack of a better word, hover, and the kind of things, and he interviewed people, and they had evidence of laser burns. They had these, you know, kind of very common and similar reports of abductions. People were left catatonic.

And people also were describing what we now call Nordics and Greys, these two types, types of beings that people kept reporting. And this is a time before cell phones, before people can WhatsApp, what they think is happening, or tweet it out. These are isolated reports from all over the world. Can you explain what these early interviews were revealing? Sure. Well, you know, even goes beyond that, be honest with you, there is official U.S. government documentation that has been released that was very classified at one point,

that has now been released for the public for the Freedom of Information Act process. And they're there for anybody to see. So we could say, oh, somebody interviewed something, somebody saw something. But keep in mind, my focus when I was working for the Pentagon, I wasn't interested in grandma seeing some lights in the backyard. We were looking at telemetry data.

We were looking at electropical data. We were looking at real data coming in from some of the most sophisticated collection sensor systems on the planet. So you had, for example, F-18 Super Hornet top gun pilots that are trained observers that can recognize the silhouette between an SU-22 and MiG-25 and an F-16 from 10 miles away and identify friend or foe and make a decision in a split second to shoot it. That was further being backed up by gun camera footage and Fleer footage forward-looking infrared footage. And that was being backed up by radar data, both airborne radar, seaborne, and ground-based radar systems. So you've got, this is more than just someone saying something or hearing a story.

You have three, if not four or five different collection systems all reporting the same information at the same time, at the same place, under the same circumstances. Now, remember, my background is that of a special agent. If I went to court with this, the jury would have no choice but to convict. We are well beyond reasonable doubt. And this goes back this type of information, not just decades, but in some cases, potentially, potentially millennia. And I think that for me is so striking because there are historical records, official historical records from other governments and other religions, that talk about these strange

encounters. There is one, for example, in Rome, there's a communication between a Roman soldier and a Roman general where they describe what they call Eclipus. Eclipus in Latin means, well, think of the eclipse, right, the shape of the sun, which happened to be the shape of the Roman shields. They call them Eclipus. and they were describing these flaming Roman shields in the sky that was following them from battle space to battle space. And that's just one small, small example of historical documentation that is describing something, some phenomena in the air. Now, this is before radar and Fleer and F18s and F-22s,

but we're well beyond that now. Now we have a lot of fidelity to illustrate what these things can actually do and how they can outperform anything we have in our inventory. And like you said, they can be encountered without impunity over our most sensitive military installations and are controlled U.S. airspace globally. So let's talk about, I was really fascinated to learn about this Wilson Davis memo. And I wonder if you can talk a little bit about what the Wilson Davis memo was. And specifically, like Roswell, New Mexico, for many of us, we grew up as like, that's the biggest

joke and the biggest hoax around. something happened in Roswell, New Mexico that the government knew about. Lou, help me here. Sure. Well, two-part question. Let's start with Admiral Wilson. Admiral Wilson was a senior official in the Department of Defense. When was this?

Just give us a time frame. So we're probably talking right now. It was before my time. The Wilson Davis memos was a conversation between supposedly Eric Davis, who was a scientist at the time, had worked for the U.S. government, top secret security clearances, worked for several of the three-letter agencies. And it was a debriefing that allegedly, I want to say this very carefully, allegedly, because it has been entered into the official records of Congress as being a legitimate document.

However, one of the individuals that was participant in this alleged situation denies it ever occurred, this meeting. but several other people say I was there and it actually didn't occur. And there's a reason why I can explain why somebody may want to say it didn't occur. I wasn't there. And there's a legal reason for that. But let's go back to the Wilson Davis memo. Someone had approached Admiral Wilson and said, listen, there is this program that you probably want to get briefed to that's spending a lot of U.S. government money.

And so Admiral Wilson goes and he says, okay, let me figure this out. And he said, by the way, it's about UFOs, it's about crash retrievals, and it's about reverse engineering, what the U.S. government actually knows about UFOs. And at the time, Admiral Wilson really had controlled a lot of the black budgets for the U.S. government. Black budgets are the hidden budgets within the budgetary system of our government, especially for military and intelligence systems and whatnot. And he said, you know, I haven't been brief to this. So he goes and he makes a couple inquiries. And finally, someone says, yeah, we have a program. but we're not going to read you onto the program.

And so Admiral Wilson says, well, let me rephrase myself. I don't think you understand. I'm Admiral Wilson. I'm not asking you, I'm telling you, right? And with a couple more stiff arms, finally, Admiral Wilson succeeded in having a meeting, apparently, with the program managers. And the program managers basically said,

with all due respect, dear Admiral, yes, we have a UFO program. No, we're not going to read you onto it and stop asking about it. So at this point, Admiral Wilson gets very, very upset. He goes back to the Pentagon, makes a few calls, and someone in leadership said, basically, look, unless you want to lose a few stars and be forced to retire, I wouldn't ask any more questions. So then that led to a debriefing with then Dr. Eric Davis, a incredibly brilliant mind. And he was an astrophysicist, correct? He is, absolutely. It's an astrophicist.

It still is. And by the way, it's worked in some of Americans most sensitive programs. And so he had this debriefing and wrote up a memorandum. And that memorandum went to, I believe it was astronaut Edgar Mitchell, who was also very much historically involved in the UAP. He actually had his own alleged UAP encounter while in space. He was the sixth man to walk on the moon. He was part of Apollo 14, Edgar Mitchell. This is not just like Joe Schmo off the street.

This is a person who has gone through the kind of testing, psychological battery, like rigorous training to be a legit astronaut who is part of this conversation? Correct. In fact, wants full transparency because he had his own encounter while he was out in space. And so long story short, the report goes to Edgar Mitchell and it goes into his safe and then unfortunately, Edgar Mitchell passes away. And from that point, the memo gets out in the wild, basically gets leaped. And then the whole... world realizes the reality about this conversation that allegedly took place. And by the way, that was entered into the record during some recent testimony under oath at the U.S. Congress.

So there's some validity. Now, the question is, why would someone want to deny that? Because, look, if I'm having the backseat of a car and I'm having a top secret conversation or a conversation about a sap or a conversation about an unacknowledged waived sap. And I'm not in a skiff. That's illegal, right? That's a huge security violation. And if I'm talking to somebody who's not cleared to have that conversation, that's borderline like espionage. You're getting really close to some very serious criminal actions that, by the way, would absolutely necessitate the launching of an FBI, full field counterintelligence investigation. Nobody wants to have that happen. Nobody wants to be part of that. In fact, one of the reasons why I submitted my book

to the Pentagon for review, because I didn't want that happening to me. So it's understandable why somebody may want to say I wasn't part of that because repercussions could be very, very severe. And I think this is why, not to kind of shift tracks here, but this is why we've been proposing and pushing this whistleblower protection legislation, because we want to afford protections to people to come forward and tell the truth about the reality of this program. I would, if I could. I'm not allowed to, right? So if we can create this umbrella of protection for other individuals who have been part of other government UAP efforts, then we might be able to get more conversation going, allow our elected leaders in Congress to be informed, and more importantly and ultimately,

the American people, which is ultimately, I think, where this conversation belongs. I don't think it's overstating it to say that you were sitting on humanity's biggest secret and the results of the conversation about this legacy program, right, which was that there were retrievals of things found at Roswell, New Mexico that people could not explain. The American tax is a quote, the American taxpayer is footing the bill for these retrievals and the subsequent analysis and reverse engineering efforts, but with no proper congressional oversight. And this is my, I mean, this to me is the statement that explains everything that's going on.

Humanity acts as if no one else is watching us. Like we are alone. But here it comes. A more advanced life is likely observing us. Humanity needs to become more aware of our place in the universe and the political consequences of our actions. I believe the public has a right to know. That was your statement. I want you to be really specific.

And I want you to talk about, I mean, some of my favorite parts of the book, I'm sure you're not surprised. I'm a scientist by training. The biological impacts of these encounters and the physics, that was like my favorite part. The charts, I'm into all of it. So the things that we know are true, I'm just going to give a little bit of a list here, okay? the things that we know are true. These orb sightings are accompanied by people being burned by lasers in ways that we cannot explain with our technology. People are reporting being abducted, being left catatonic. They're describing two types of aliens. One is kind of like a tall,

sort of ghoulish, Nordic. The other is a shorter what many of us think of as sort of the classic alien, which we call the grays, and things like vaporization of people and animals that can only be caused by things like lasers or radioactive weapons, there is biological material that has been obtained that we do not understand. And there is information about things that have been implanted in people, just like the stories that people tell,

that seem to have a technology that does not allow us to analyze them in ways that we can understand. There are puncture wounds. There are things in people's noses. The, like the FDA, the Department of Agriculture, all these animals that have been found with wounds that we cannot explain

have been sent out to different departments, but nobody was allowed to communicate about it. So these are things that you're not making up. And even if you were, we wouldn't be at, this place. This is stuff that you simply blew the whistle on by saying this isn't about making it up. This is about the government knows and has been investigating it. Am I roughly correct here? Yeah, let's take it a step further. It's not just me. It was our team. The entire A-Tip team, and they haven't all come out yet, but when they come out of the shadows, there's going to be a lot

more people are going to learn about this. But look, there are people right now. It's documented. It's in writing. people that have come government people, intelligence officers, military personnel that have come up close and personal to a UAP and are now, now on 100 percent medical disability by the U.S. government in writing because of their involvement in a UAP encounter, particularly one that bent waters in the early 1980s in England. It's called the Rundlesham incident. You can look it up. To the military police officers, in this case, Air Force Special Police Officers, who went into the woods to actually locate the craft and wound up apparently getting injured by it. It took literally the late Senator John McCain himself to get those files declassified so these servicemen could receive the medical treatment they deserve. That is fact. That's not Lou Elizondo.

That is in government documentation. right? There are there are countless numbers of individuals who are under care right now by the U.S. government because of an alleged UAP encounter where they have sustained, you're right. Some cases superficial burns. Some may look at and say, oh, that looks like a sunburn. In reality, it's probably a result of ultraviolet radiation. Then as you get closer, there's some individuals that actually have experienced internal organ damage. In some cases, severe organ damage. It's serious, consistent with what one would say you say lasers,

but really probably more like some sort of directed energy source. And, you know, when you look at this, I want to make sure I'm very clear here. This may not be deliberate, right? There's certainly lots of conventional technology now that if you wind up getting too close to, I often tell people, look, go to the airport, and if you go on the runway and put your head behind an engine of a 737, yeah, chances are you're going to lose your hearing. probably going to get burned, you know, it's a consequence of the technology. It's not trying to hurt you, but if something is using a lot of energy and potentially just dissipating a lot of

energy, if you're close to it, you're probably going to get injured. So it's not really that big of a stretch to say, well, people have been hurt. We're not sure it's really deliberate. Now, there are some cases in South America, and even here in the U.S., where people have actually said, no, it's deliberate. Like, they've actually been, in some cases, I hate to use the vernacular, zapped, but have sustained direct energy damage that seemed to potentially be intentional. One of those incidents was in Brazil called Colares. Colares is an area of Brazil where the general four-star general Uchoa conducted investigation with his men and had photographs and video and some of his personnel were injured by

by a craft, by a UAP. I want to just pause here for a second because we skimmed over and some people may not have be following along entirely. We just claimed this fact that aircraft or spacecraft has been found and that there have been encounters with other forms of life that have included laser-like zapping and impact. Well, we have to be careful. You say spacecraft. I don't like that he said spacecraft, Lou, because I'm on your team. Let's use the right nomenclature. Go ahead, Lou.

We don't really know yet the true origin and source of some of these things. And so we have to, you know, I've always told people we've got to keep all options on the table until they're no longer on the table. I know it's really easy to be tempted to say, oh, they're aliens from, you know, out there, the pleities. But the reality is there's a whole lot of other options that it could be. So can we start with the crafts? What has been found and what makes us think, what makes us concerned or curious? Like, for example, I know that there was, you know, footage, YouTube footage going around a couple months ago where that couldn't be explained. And it was this flying through the sky at a speed that no one could understand.

And there's been a handful of these. And some people are like, oh, these are AI fakes. and are they real, but they're coming from military sources. So can we start with just some of the craft? Because I've heard in other interviews of whistleblowers that every government has collected some form of these crashed artifacts or crafts and that they're trying to reverse engineer. But like if someone is a skeptic,

how do you start to introduce the fact that, wait a second, there are ships or crafts or some form of traveling device that has the relics have been found? So first of all, I think healthy skepticism is important. Being a skeptic, probably not because they're just as guilty as the true believers. They accept or deny information at face value without really challenged themselves and collecting data. But I do think healthy skepticism is very important. Let's start with an analogy.

Maybe it can help. Because first, in order to really, I think, talk about this. paradigm in a new paradigm in a constructive way, we first have to challenge our own preconceived notion. So I started this conversation by explaining I am a disciple of the scientific principles and scientific methodology. It always happened. I believe in mathematics. I believe in physics. It is the language of the universe. But I also know there are some fundamental things we as human beings often get wrong. The anthropologists now believe that modern humans, homo sapiens, has been roughly around between 100 to 200,000 years in its modern form. So if you take a 24-hour clock

and you look at the 24 hours and say these 24 hours represents 200,000 years of human existence, it was the Greeks 2,000 years ago, right? Probably about 15 minutes ago on the clock that said, okay, guess what? There's actually two types of life forms on this planet. You are either a plant or B, you are an animal, and human beings kind of fall in animal. And it wasn't until on the clock about five minutes ago during the renaissance roughly 300 years ago during the age of enlightenment we recognize and discovered an entirely new life form that's been coexisting on this planet all along that is neither plant nor animal now if that wasn't revelatory enough it wasn't until 120 years ago think about it out of 200,000 years ago right the last three

seconds maybe of our existence maybe five that we actually discover the true dominant life form alpha on this planet. And in fact, if you take all the biomass of every plant and the biomass of every animal and the biomass of every fungus and add it all up together, it still does not add up to the biomass of this hidden yet dominant life form on this planet. And it wasn't until we could curve glass

and look through a little metal tube and famously shout little beasties, little beasties, did we discover the world of microorganisms that live inside every single one of us and actually compose us. They live on the skin of the ISS Space Station. They live miles beneath the Arctic ice under the crushing depths, right?

So that is the true dominant life form on this planet. And we just discovered it. We just got the technology to discover it. Take home message, because I have an 18-year-old who literally is going to die by his skepticism and he's only 18, the take-home message for people like my kid who doesn't listen to this because he hears enough of me talking at home.

The take-home message is, we thought we knew everything at every phase of human development. We thought with absolute certainty that we knew everything about every category of our existence. And I studied the brain and nervous system, which were still like, what, right? The nervous system can have cells that regenerate. We thought that we should just shoot you in the face if you hurt your back, right? So what you're trying to point out is every time, and this is actually Talmudic, every time you think you know something, you don't know it.

Every time you have certainty, you're likely wrong. Keep your mind open. Let's see what happens next. Like funguses and microbiome, yes. 100%. There was a time where we thought that there was no celestial objects in the sky other than Earth that was, you know, terra firma. And you could also never break the sound barrier.

And yet we saw all the time asteroids coming in, rocks falling in from space that were clearly not from Earth, and then we're breaking the sound barrier all the time, right? So the one thing that humans usually get right is that we're usually wrong at first. And you're 100% correct. And this is no different, this topic, because the government has placed so much stigma and taboo. By the way, purposely, this topic, that it has squelched the conversation to the point where now that it has become an actual national security issue, the government is struggling,

trying to figure out, okay, well, gosh, we spent the last 70 years pretending like it wasn't really serious and it wasn't real, how do we treat this topic now? So we've kind of backed ourselves into a corner. And you're absolutely right. Look, I'll give you another perfect example. We as human beings, so this goes to the other question. People say, well, these spaces from outer space, look, I've always said they can be from outer space, inner space, or the space in between. And what do I mean by that? We as human beings have five fundamental senses that we judge our environment. If you can't touch it, taste it, hear it, smell it, et cetera, we can't interact with it. And yet, if I had the ability to look through cell phone vision and look in G5 and LTE and GPS

and Wi-Fi, I would see entirely different reality around. In fact, where I live in Wyoming, I'm not there today, but where I live, we have these beautiful, unacluded skies. And yet, if you look at that same portion of the sky through a radio telescope, you see a completely different reality. You see nebula. You see an ultraviolet, an infrared, an x-rays. So you see a different reality. And so by that definition, most of reality lies beyond the visual spectrum of the electro-optical spectrum, which is super, super, super narrow compared to what's out there. And then you have a side, you have a scale issue, right? As a scientist, I'm sure you'll appreciate this. The human being, when you look at the universal horizon in any direction, is about 13.9 billion light years.

So what does that mean? It means light, which can travel at 186,000 miles per second, roughly seven and a half times around the Earth in one second. Imagine how far it can go in a year and now multiply that by 13.9 billion, right, in any direction. So that's roughly 27 billion light years across and we're in the middle. And that's the observable universe. Most scientists now believe that's actually only 10% of the actual size of the universe. So now we're bigger than 100 billion light years. right, and we're this tiny little speck in the middle. And yet, and yet, if you compare a single atom, a hydrogen atom, avogadro's number 1 times 10 to the negative go all the way down, right? That's roughly the same scale. That atom, we are the size of the universe to that atom as we are the atom to the rest of the universe. And we as humans can only interact with plus or minus one or two orders of magnitude up or down. At that point, the universe either becomes simply too big or too small.

And we will never be able to interact with. And so, yeah, that's where most of the universe, the reality of the universe, actually lies. So the potential for us, and we always assume or presume we know everything, but Milam, you're absolutely 100% right. We don't. We only perceive and can only really comprehend a very, very, very small sliver of what reality is about. You remember then as a scientist, right? We all grew up in Newtonian physics.

What a great, you know, invention that was or discovery. And then you have Einstein's relativity. Wow, space and time is actually connected and it's stretchable and compressible. And then all of a sudden you have quantum mechanics, you know, spooky action at a distance where things can happen at the same time in different places when it shouldn't be possible. And yet that looks like that's really how the universe kind of works at the nano level. So we've got a long way to go. And I think it's very dangerous for us to just simply presume that, oh, this is impossible.

because most of the time it's not only possible, it's likely. Jonathan was asking specifically about the interloper project. It's kind of the thing that is most in our recent memory as a 21st century society. What I learned from your book, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that from all of this kind of collected research and knowledge, it seems that UAP are in some way targeting or honing in on nuclear capability technology. That's just a thing. I'm not making it up.

I'm not trying to be paranoid. Like that seems to be what is happening. And it explains a lot of the time frame, right, like post-World War II and the location of these sightings. Interloper was a plan to use. This is like my favorite part of your book. I mean, I have many favorite parts, but this is a big one. Interloper was a plan to use one of our nuclear-powered carriers as bait. Bate.

And what happened was we set up something to try and lure this kind of activity. Again, we don't know what it is. It worked. This is the basis of these videos that were similar in some ways. to the 2004, you call them the Tick-Tac videos, which showed a kind of tick-tac shaped craft. This time the craft was smaller, but this is what most people have heard about recently.

This was kind of the first that many of us got to hear about it in the mainstream media. Tell us what these pilots were reporting. And we have the audio, we have video. What were they describing? Sure. So let me see if I can, there's some conflation there.

Let me see if I can, for your audience, kind of, no, no, no, no. It's, listen, it's probably my fault. I may not have been clear. So, three things. One is our nuclear technology. And when I say technology,

I mean, propulsion, nuclear weapons and other nuclear capabilities that we have, we've seen them over our sensitive military installations and over our national laboratory, like Oak Ridge, and Savannah River facility. By the way, these are documents that have been published by the government. So this is not speculation.

This is hard data from the government that's been released by the government, right? Anybody can, if you know where to look, you can find it. So there is also some information we have where several of our ICBMs, intercontinental ballistic missiles, part of our nuclear triad, right? Our ability to respond to a nuclear strike

have been disabled by a UFO, by a UAP. In fact, an entire flight, if you think of a string of Christmas lights, how these missiles are kind of daisy-chained. The entire flight was taken offline and was witnessed by many, many, Air Force personnel as these UFO disabled RICBMs, because you have a nuclear-powered submarine,

other nuclear-powered vessels, potentially aircraft that are potentially able to carry nuclear-type. Hold on one second. I just lost your audio. Yeah, same. I think we're being attacked. Lands are here, Lou. They're here. Did that happen when you spoke to Joe Rogan? No, it didn't. Did I speak to Joe Rogan? I don't remember. You know, the government does not operate like,

academia does in terms of how information is exchanged, shared, and communicated. So the notion that in an academic environment, there's an exchange of ideas, a sharing among disciplines, and openness, even to ideas that you may not agree with, you know, a validation of concepts and of thought and belief systems, the government is not really designed for that. And I think that's sort of an important, you know, it's an important framework for us to look at. What if this is technology that we are developing that the government just doesn't want us to know about? Is that possible? Sure. But let's look at it from a temporal aspect. I think it's a very, I can't tell you how many times in general has asked me that same question. Is it possible it's Russian or Chinese? So let's go

ahead and first briefly describe some of what we're seeing and then explain why it's likely it's probably not. Could be, but probably not some sort of adversarial or what we call a blue force technology, our own technology. So we're talking about an object. Let's take these glasses. There's five fundamental observables that make UAP, UFOs, stand aside and above anything that we have. So the first is we baseline our own technologies. And what we're seeing are vehicles that are performing maneuvers called instantaneous acceleration. So as a physicist, I don't have to explain to you. It is the ability to change directions or change velocity in a way where there are inertial

of forces that are experienced. So we experience those forces in terms of gravity. We call 1G, 2G, the force of gravity and multiply that. And that is those inertial forces. So a human being can withstand biologically. for a very short period or a very short duration of time, about nine Gs on the body with a G-suit before you start having medical and biological consequences, things like blackouts and redouts and ultimately death. An F-16, General Dynamics F-16, which is still one of the most

highly maneuverable aircraft. We have manned aircraft. It's a little bit older, but still one of the most maneuverable. At the unclassified level, can perform Gs around 17 G-forces before you start having structural and mechanical failure, meaning wings begin to snap off and the plane will start to disintegrate in midair. Too fast, right? In layperson's terms, you're going too fast. Yeah, you're changing direction too fast, right? Or changing your velocity too quickly. And so what we are seeing are objects that are performing 2,000, 3,000, 4,000 Jeep horse maneuvers. Well, well, well beyond the healthy limitations of anything biological to withstand and certainly beyond are the limitations of our material science. The second observable is hypersonic velocity. Now, what is hypersonic? Well, it's faster than

supersonic. Supersonic is roughly 760-some miles an hour at sea level five times that speed of sound, that speed, is hypersonic. Now, do we have aircraft that can travel at hypersonic speeds? We absolutely do. Case in point, the Lockheed Wife 12A SR-7. A.K.A. the blackbird. Everybody knows about the blackbird. At the unclassified level, that can do about 3,200 miles an hour. But when it wants to take a right-hand turn, it takes roughly half of the state of Ohio to do it. We are seeing vehicles that are going 10,000, 13,000 miles an hour in low Earth atmosphere where that friction coefficient is very high, and they're doing immediate right-angle turns, and sometimes 180. Another observable, it's a bit of an oxymoron,

is low observability. It's hard to see on radar. It's hard to see with the naked eye. It doesn't look like it has wings or a tail or any obvious size of propulsion. The fourth observable is transmedium or multi-medium travel, meaning it can operate in multiple domains or environments, if you will. Now, we do have vehicles that are multi-domain, right? We have, for example, a seaplane.

But a seaplane is neither a very good airplane or a very good boat because you have design compromises and performance compromises in order to operate in two different environments. We have that thing in Chicago where you can be in a Jeep and then it goes in the water. Right, and it's not a really good Jeep either or it's a very good boat, right? Yeah, you're talking about the duck,

the World War II ducks, the old personnel carrier, armored personnel carrier. So in essence, there's always a compromise. And what we are seeing are objects that are operating in low earth orbit and are out in our atmosphere and even underwater without any type of performance or design compromise, right? something that we simply don't have.

And then the last observer, it's a bit of a, actually it's a really bad word in science, but it's anti-gravity. Now, it's not anti-gravity in the way you think. It's simply the ability to defy the natural effects of Earth's gravitational pull without the associated technologies. So what do I mean? For example, we use wings for flight, right? The four fundamental forces, thrust, lift, drag, and weight.

When you understand that, you can build a lifting body, wings. you create lifting, you fly, provided you have thrust. Another way is through buoyancy or lighter than air or helium. Think of a hot air balloon. And then the last is through sheer ballistics. Force equals mass times acceleration. I put enough energy behind something. Newton's law, you know, equal and opposite reaction.

And so think of an ICBM or even throwing a baseball in the air, right? Well, we are seeing our objects that don't have any associated technologies that we're used to seeing, right? No wings, no aileron, no control surfaces, no obvious signs of propulsion. and yet still they have the ability to defy Earth's gravitational pull. So when you see these vehicles doing that, one has to say, okay, this is something that we don't have. Now back to your question, is it possible these things, some other nation has been able to do it? Well, we've been tracking these things doing this since the 1950s, early 1950s and late 1940s. So where was the United States?

Well, we had just broken the sound barrier. we had just entered the atomic age and we hadn't made it into space yet. Where was Russia? Not as far as we were. Where was China? They're in the middle of a famine. So the likelihood of that, I often use a comparison. That would be like going into King Tut's tomb for the very first time in the 1920s,

looking inside and all of a sudden discovering a fully assembled 747 jet sitting in the tomb, right? So poorly speaking, it doesn't make sense. They did not have the technology to do that. back then, and the same holds true with us with that argument. This is a little bit like, tell me that UAPs exist without telling me UAPs exist. We know that there are craft that are behaving in a way that based on our understanding of even quantum mechanics that we cannot explain with the science and the brains that we have. we cannot explain why they behave the way they behave,

why they move the way they move, or how they move the way they move. We can actually, we can't replicate it. We think we can finally explain it. We think that there's some scientific models that have, in 2015, there was this proverbial aha moment that the scientists had in the government that said, look, if you can do all,

if you can do this, all these other things are possible. Is that the bubble? That's the bubble. Yeah, correct. When we say we're observing, is it firsthand observation? Is it on-camera observation? And are there pieces of these that have been collected? Yes, yes, and yes. And the pieces that have been collected,

they've just been found discarded? Like, are you able to say more? No, what I can say is what's in the book. I can't go beyond that. I can find myself in a lot of trouble, but the book has been approved through the, Pentagon security process. So what I can say is that the U.S. government is in possession of recovered pieces of

recovered vehicle and biological samples. And those materials are very, very interesting. When you understand how to do technical analysis, let's take this, for example, this little battery pack for a cell phone. If I were to walk in the middle of the desert, I found this, right? I would first look at its physical properties. I would weigh it and I would say, okay, it's metallic and it weighs X amount and it's colored white, it's got white paint, it's reflective.

kind of, also kind of dull. And then I'm going to say, okay, I'm going to go deeper. I want to do a molecular or chemical analysis, meaning I want to look at the way fundamentally the molecules are arranged and the relationship with other molecules. So I'm going to look at its ability to conduct electricity, and I'm going to look at all sorts of things. And it turns out there's some lithium in here,

so it probably has the ability to store energy or power of some sort. It also is made up of aluminum. So it's a metal, you know, roughly this type of, grade. And then you go further and you just start doing the atomic or the nanonevel analysis, where you are starting to look now at the isotopic ratios and the actual way the atoms are arranged with one another. That's the matrix that they create based on their atomic structure. 100%. And that is harder. You need a lot of technology and a lot of money to have that type of accuracy. And by the way, found on this planet, there's only a certain range of deviation of isotopes that

are found. When you find an isotope that's beyond that, it's either A been engineered or B came from somewhere else. That's how we know, for example, speaking of King Tut's tomb, how we knew that the dagger was actually made from an asteroid because the nickel content was not found naturally on this planet. We did the analysis, not we, the archaeologists. So it's very simple to tell if something was made here or not. And then if you say, okay, well, let's engineer it ourselves, you have to say, okay, it's going to cost us X amount of dollars to do X, Y, and Z billions and billions and billions of dollars. And do we have the technology to do this at a manufacturing level that is sufficient? Meaning, can we mass produce it? And the answer was no.

We had actually some of the greatest mines and the greatest aerospace companies. We said, this is what we need you to replicate. And they said, we can't be done. We said, no, we think it can be. And so after a cost of a million dollars, I can't see which company, but at a cost of a million dollars, a very reputable government aerospace company, cost of a million dollars and have wanted to break in the machine, they created what looked like a little brick of this material combined together. Well, what the government has in this possession is far more intricate than that, multi, multi, multi layers. And when we asked the aerospace company, can you go ahead and replicate it? They said no. And when you actually had to show them for them to go, oh, my.

Wow. Okay. Someone has been able to do that. And when you ask them how much it would cost to do that, they said, well, first of all, we don't have the technology now. Well, actually, we might now. This is three years ago. We didn't have the technology then, and the cost would have been exorbitant.

When you say that material, when you find where that material was found and when it was found, you know, decades earlier, no one on the planet had that ability. In fact, arguably still people don't have that ability. There's still countries. We still can't do it. So, you know, again, this is that temporal aspect. that you're forced to reconcile, okay, well, the material's real. It's here.

We know it's real. We can touch it. We can't test it, but we still can't make it. And so that is very compelling evidence. And by the way, other countries, back to your point, other countries have material as well. I personally put my hands on alleged material that was recovered from up there, metallic material. And could it be from an old Russian satellite? Sure, I guess it could.

but the analysis that's coming back and that's being done by some very reputable scientists is coming back very interesting. And by the way, to the point where even the U.S. government had something called a crater agreement, which was a research agreement with an old organization I used to be affiliated with to study recovered, allegedly recovered UFO material. That's in the open press. Anybody can look at it. It says this is what we want.

We want to analyze it. So there's a lot of interest there, right? from a material science perspective, you know, that's where the rubber meets a road. That's where really things start to get interesting. You use a beautiful example, which makes me feel very emotional, especially because your mother was part Cherokee, and you have Cherokee heritage.

And there's this example that you give that, and this, sorry, just emotional, when the Spanish arrived in the new world, you know, we all know what happened. There was a, you know, a devastation of a culture and a complete, you know, breakdown of, I think, humanity in terms of what happened when the Spanish arrived. But one of the components you talk about

is that the indigenous people had never seen technology like they were seeing. Meaning, imagine if you've never seen a gun. You've never seen a boat. You've never seen, you know, machinery. You've never seen armor of this variety. You don't know how to process. Like, the human brain does not know how to process things

that are outside of our realm of what we've experienced, which is why babies don't know what the heck is happening for like the first, you know, three months. like, what, I'm part of my mother. And if you've ever seen, like, you know, you've ever seen that kind of analysis of what happens when something is introduced that you have no frame of reference for,

it looks a lot like what you're describing. And what the analogy was is the Inca had no frame of reference to understand what was happening and may have perceived that this is something alien. Yeah, they actually did. When the conquisadores first came over on their ships, he had never seen a ship, and they had never seen armor, and they had never seen a horse.

And so when the conquistadors came from Spain during the La Reconquista, the reconquering, when they landed on the shores of the beach, you're absolutely right. The Inca actually thought it was a single monster. They did not understand it was a human in armor riding on a horse because they had no frame of reference. And that is exactly what we see today. I tell people all the time, look, imagine 300 years ago walking in the desert and finding, and finding Da Vinci or Michelangelo, finding a garage door opener, right?

What in the hell would that be used for? First of all, it's made of plastic. They've never seen plastic. Second of all, it has batteries. Thirdly, the electromagnetic spectrum hasn't even been discovered yet, right? So what is this magical thing? What is it used for?

And it's not about intelligence. This is not a story about that the Inca couldn't understand because their brains didn't have the capacity. The Inca's did incredibly beautiful, sophisticated, cultural, monumental things, as did all of the indigenous tribes, it is that even the most intelligent people, the most learned, the most sophisticated, we've built governments, we've gone to the moon, we've done all these things. If there is something that is outside of what we can understand, we will hide it, we will come up with legislation to prevent people from talking about it,

We will convince everyone that they are crazy if they think about it. And we will introduce an entire level of conversation where the only indefensible thing is you're crazy, right? What is it like to be told that you're crazy? Well, I've been married 30 years, so I'm told I'm crazy all the time, but for different reasons. Not because of this topic. The reality is it's an unnecessary label that is used when we don't understand something.

Look, you can call people crazy all you want, but Einstein was called crazy. There were a lot of people in history that were called crazy. Galileo, when you first proposed that the earth was not the center of the solar system, they almost burned him for it, right? Heretical. Turned out he wasn't crazy, right? They even refuse to look through the very telescope to confirm his observations. So I think it's a, you know, when you're labeled crazy, you know, I do think there's a fine line between genius and crazy.

I think crazy is a label that society gives when you don't really fit in, you know, maybe to the normal, you know, stream, if you will, of conscience, consciousness. I think it's a cop out. We've had a lot of our pilots that were labeled crazy. They were taken off flight status. They had psychological evaluations in the military, especially. If you reported a UFO, you know, it's funny because if you go right now to any airport or train station, you always hear the announcements and the DHS announcements. If you see something suspicious, report it.

Well, this wasn't happening in the intelligence community or the Department of Defense. In fact, it was the opposite. If you see something, don't report it. And in fact, every time now you can look at it in modern terms, every time, The Russian surveillance aircraft comes near Alaska or California. What's the first thing we do? Well, we launched two F-22s, and we escorted out of our airspace, and it's all over the news, all over headline news.

Well, these things don't have that response. In fact, it's crickets. And it's because, you know, if they had a Russian star on its tail or a North Korean tail number, it'd be a different story. But because these things don't even have a tail or a wing, nobody wants to have the conversation. And to the point where we've had almost mid-air collision. We have flight safety reports, almost mid-air collisions, where these UAP have literally, literally split a combat formation right down the middle.

That's how close they have come to our aircraft. Let me put this in other context real quick. Let's remind the audience here. It wasn't until the last year or two that we started recalibrating our radar to start looking for UAP. Guess what we started saying. This is after we told everybody, oh, we know everything in our skies. We started seeing Chinese spy balloons just wafting over our country, collecting intelligence,

right? And here we are telling the American people, oh, we know everything in our sky. You couldn't even track a balloon. So, you know, yeah. I mean, you're right. I'm going to get in trouble for saying that, I'm sure. But anyways. Please. Okay. I love when you get in trouble because it made an amazing book. I want to talk a little bit more about the cover up because Jonathan and I talk about this in realms of nutrition. We talk about it in realms of pesticide use. We talk about it in realms of ultra-processed food, which the mainstream media keeps trying to convince me is good for me when I know that it's not, right? Like we have, I mean, it's like that, that stuff kind of, you know, bends the mind. One of the sort of like meta-complexities of your decision to resign so that you could

alert the American public and the global public to what is going on. The meta-complexity is that it's not just that you chose to reveal information that has been hidden. You chose to reveal that the government had been giving instructions of how to cover this up, how to lie, how to hide evidence. And to me, that you blew the whistle on two things. You blew the whistle on two things. things. You blew the whistle on UAPs exist and the government knew and the government was actively trying to encourage people to cover it up, teach people how to lie and create, I think, potentially more hysteria around this. Can you talk a little bit about what you think the government was afraid of with this information? Sure. Well, let's let's start.

with the basic question, why do governments lie? There are legal reasons. For example, if you look at the definition of covert action, that is what they call in our community an honest lie. You're lying about an operation in order to save American lives. No, we're not sending in an alpha team to go in and save hostages until after we save them. And then we said, oh, yeah, we kind of did that, right? I'm not worried about those kind of lies because they're designed to help and protect the American people. What I don't like are lies to cover and obfuscate truth or embarrassment or malfeasance, right? So there are reasons to have something secret. And I'm the first one.

If you ever asked me to choose national security over disclosure, I will absolutely always choose national security because I'm a patriot. I love my country. I love my fellow citizens. and I love my government. What I don't like is when people abuse the bureaucracy and make the unilateral decision upon themselves to do something on behalf of everybody else when they don't have that authority. So what do I mean? We can only classify information in this country for the most part to protect two things, sources and methods. It is illegal to classify information simply because it's inconvenient to have the conversation or it's embarrassing or anything like that

or to cover up criminal action. It's actually legal. There are requirements to inform Congress from a budgetary's perspective and an oversight perspective through certain committees, all intelligence and military operations. When someone in the government makes a decision on behalf of everybody else that they're not going to inform Congress, they're not going to inform the president,

they're not going to do good things, because they think they know better, that's the problem I have. No one has that authority. No one is above our constitution or a law. Either our constitution means something or it doesn't. And if it doesn't, you better let the American people know because they know how to take care of business if they have to. So it's a very dangerous, slippery slope when someone begins to do that.

I'll share with you a story when my father, my father passed away last father's day, not this one, but the one before. And I was, I got very close to my father towards the end. And he had cancer. He didn't tell me had cancer, but I could tell towards the end he was. He was, he wasn't, he was dying. And so a month before he died, we had a chance to do a road trip. And so he rode from my home in Wyoming down to South Florida, down to Miami, where, you know, the rest of us Cubans live.

And we went down there. And I asked my father about halfway through the trip almost flippantly. I actually feel pretty embarrassed about it now, looking back. I said, Dad, what do you think is the greatest threat to humanity? Now, I'm thinking to myself, it's a pandemic, a disease, maybe terrorism. Bad Cuban food. Yeah, right. Bad black beans and race.

He said, son, it's corruption. I thought for a second, said corruption, like financial corruption? He said, no. Corruption. Corruption is the act of sacrificing or giving up your own values in exchange for something, whether it's religious corruption, governmental corruption, financial corruption, moral corruption. Corruption is corruption. And when you do that, my father was a record.

revolutionary, who was in the Bay of Pigs, he knows what tyranny is. He said, if you're in the government and you are corrupt, you start chiseling away the very foundation of what a democracy is. And once you start doing that, it's a very, very slippery slope down to tyranny. And he was right. He's absolutely right. And so this is why I think transparency and accountability is so important in our government. Also with this topic, not just with this topic, the UAP, but all topics. because ultimately that is the only reason where our government works, because we all have faith and confidence in our institutions. And if someone is circumventing that or short-circuiting that process,

that is a corrupt process. And that's not good for our country. That's really one of the reasons why I'm so steadfast on UAP disclosure. Why do you think the government allowed you to declassify or declassified this information and allowed you to share this now. Can I give my answer before you give yours, Lou? Sure.

I don't know if there had been anyone like Lou Elizondo before who had been given the kind of information that he was trusted to keep and protect, but also ultimately felt compelled to answer to a higher source. I mean, that's my answer for you, but I don't know what yours is. Maybe along those lines. I can't answer on behalf of the U.S. government.

What I can tell you is that when I first came out, there were a lot of people really upset with me, a lot in the government. They're like, hey, man, don't come back here no more. You're not welcome back. But privately, people would reach out and said, hey, man, look, we're really proud you did what you did. The time has come for this conversation to occur. This is the worst kept secret at this point.

We've got people that are almost colliding into these things with our aircraft. Someone needs to do something. as the conversation became more acceptable, you went from having whispers about UFOs in the back end of a skiff in the Pentagon to now people in the lunchroom, openly talking about UFOs, right? So that stigma and that taboo

is now being dissipated, and there's a faction within the U.S. government that I believe, because I've spoken to them, that want the truth to come out. This is not a conversation, like I said before, like it's like fine wine where you keep a cork on it. We're well beyond the, the expiration of this topic. And now we need to have this conversation with the American people

because I submit to you, there are pieces of this conversation that I don't want my government telling me what to think about it. From a national security perspective, hey, that's cool. I'm okay with that because that's your job. But from a philosophical, psychological, psychological, theological, theological perspective, that's no one's dame's business. That's, government's not, that's not their responsibility. And I don't want their business in my business. I want the American people to decide what that means to them from their perspective. Also, with all the footage that is surfacing more and more, it's harder and harder to really deny. And so we're creating a chasm between the footage that is available, people talking about it,

podcasts that are talking about it, and a government who's like they're losing credibility in the space if they're not willing to acknowledge some element of it. So we're at a collision point. We are. We are. I've got members of Congress. privately telling me, look, I saw a UFO with my son while fishing come right out of the lake. I mean, this is no longer a secret.

When lawmakers are telling you, look, I personally witnessed this thing, right? You have people in the executive branch. You have the former director of national intelligence, Rackler, the former director of the CIA, Brennan. You have a former president of the United States coming on saying, yeah, there's something to it. This is real. We need to look at it. I mean, that's not me telling you. That's your government telling you.

what do you think this intelligent life form wants with humanity? You know, you describe in your book that you have had experiences yourself, that your home was invaded by orbs over the course of seven years. It was witnessed by your wife, your two daughters. You've had first-hand accounts. Like, is there a personal relationship that, like, hey, they know that you know stuff, so they're trying to interact with you? both personally and at a collective level,

what do you think they want with humanity? So I don't know, and let me also preface, I don't like to give my opinion, because the one thing we know, you can be, one thing I've learned in intelligence, you can be absolutely sure of something and still be absolutely wrong. So my opinion really doesn't matter.

What I can tell you is what the data suggests, and then you can infer what you want from it. Also, use the guerrilla example. I want you to explain the guerrilla example in this answer. Okay, sure. You got it. Grill up as well. My family and I, when I was part of the ATTIP program, we were exposed to some very interesting things. These luminous balls, green balls of light, very diffuse that would go in and out of the house. The neighbors have also seen it. And by the way, it wasn't just my family. Other individuals, other members who were part of ATIP also experience these type of activities around their house. Now, are they related to UFOs? I don't know. Could it be ball lightning? Could it be? be St. Elmo's fire. Could it be a plasma discharge because I had faulty wiring in my house? It could be government surveillance also. It could be government surveillance. It could be,

who knows? It could be a natural, you know, aberration of the atmosphere. Who knows? But what I do know is that it was witnessed by many people, not just me. It was also being encountered by other colleagues of mine at their houses at the same time as well during the time we were working in atip. So I found that very interesting. I wanted to put it. I wanted to put it. I, I wanted to in the book because maybe there's a connection. Maybe there's not. Maybe there is. Now, back to the guerrilla analogy. This is an analogy that was used to try to explain why someone may be interested in human development. So you go from, and let me see how I can caveat this, because this was some of the theories that were proposed by some of the scientists and the academics in our program.

Yeah, and it comes directly from the conversation of the way you said it was a threat is a threat as a threat. And once you classify something as potentially threatening, it is your responsibility, meaning you felt in the position you were in, it is your responsibility to act on what could potentially be a threat, meaning if something is benign, you don't have to create a threat. If something is totally like fine and interesting or even spooky and weird, you don't have to create a threat. But there is enough evidence. And, you know, the, it's hard to not go into the physics, but like there's enough evidence about what happens with hydrogen atoms. There's enough evidence about what happens over water. There's enough evidence about what happens

when light refracts that we know that there's a specificity to this that indicates that it could be a threat, which we need to then take as a threat and gorilla analogy. Yeah. So let's let's start with a threat, and I'll kind of weave that into the grill analogy. Let me, let me ask you a question real quick. I'm sure you live in a lovely neighborhood, as many people in your audience do. Let me ask you, do you, do you lock the front door before you go to bed at night? Yes. Okay, I do too. And by the way, I think most people would agree, even though you don't expect anything bad to happen, it's just kind of a good idea. But long story short, some people may even go to the extra step and make sure that the windows are locked and they might even turn their alarm system before they go to

bed. Let's say one Sunday morning you wake up to have a nice hot cup of tea or coffee, and as you walk downstairs, you notice size 12 muddy bootprints on your living room carpet. Now, no one's been hurt, nothing's been taken, but despite the front door being locked and your windows being locked and your alarm being on, there are now muddy bootprints on your carpet floor that were not there the night before. So my question to you is, is that a threat? Well, my response is it could be if it wanted to be, So we should probably figure out how they're getting into the house and what they want. And this is the same analogy with the government, right? These things are coming over, controlled U.S. airspace over our sensitive military installation is completely unimpeded.

There's not a damn thing we can do about it. We probably should figure out what's going on. Now, to the guerrilla analogy, we've noticed a steady increase in UAP activity and interest in our nuclear capabilities. There's a theory behind that. And it has to do with energy, deriving energy. So let's go back to our homo sapient safety. In a European 200,000 years ago, all of a sudden, about 2,000 years ago, we realized that if you heat water and it expands roughly 1,700 times its volume, that can be turned into energy and used. And in fact, it's what led to the Industrial Revolution and the steam engine, right?

Then someone got smart and realized that if you, if you now don't just separate the molecules from each other, but you actually break apart the molecules in an exothermic reaction, you go a little deeper into the material. You get a one, right, so this is a one times 10 to the third release of energy. If I convert an exothermic reaction roughly in a chemical process, it's roughly 1 times 10 to the fourth yield, exothermic reaction. If I then go even smaller than that, and I break apart the atom, right, in a nuclear fission process, that's a 1 times 10 to the fifth yield, what is referred to as kilotone yield. And if I go all the way down nuclear process, one times 10 to the 6,

let's say, yes ma'am, you got it, that's it. Page 166. megaton yield, and it turns out there's two fundamental ways to warp space time. And that is with a lot of mass, and we know it all the time. Earth warp space time. It's actually an expression of gravity. The sun does, a black hole does in an extreme form, but you can also warp space time with a heck of a lot of energy.

What I try to explain people is consider mass and energy as coefficients of each other. Think of mass as ice. Think of energy as steam. They're fundamentally the same thing, but in two different states. When you take matter and you annihilate it, you get pure energy, et cetera. So the more energy you have, you have the ability to warp space time. It just turns out you need a whole heck of a lot of it. How much?

Well, if you talk to the people at the CERN and the Large Hadron Collider, they believe that they're now approaching those levels where they can start creating micro black holes in the laboratory. meaning they can now start creating small pockets where you can literally warp space time through energy to the point where you can create a small black hole very very at the mental level so there's no danger there the point being is that mass and energy can warp space time and it turns out that if these things these technology are warping space time it's possible that any species that gets to a certain point in development meaning they understand how the atom works and once you understand the atom you understand the

You understand quartz. Once you understand quartz, it's a very quick process. It may be a matter of theta complete. If you don't destroy yourself in the process within 600, 200, 500 years of discovering the secrets of the atom, you may now be able to replicate that technology. You may be able to warp space time in a way that allows you to do the things that we are seeing these UAP doing. And if that's the case, is it possible that our friends from out of town are monitoring us? Are they watching us? Are they looking at? and saying, okay, the little monkeys here that are look cute in the exhibit there, chewing on the banana, they're nice because they're over there and they're stuck in their cage. But what happens when that little gorilla figures out the zookeeper drop the key to the cage to the enclosure? And now, day by day, he's getting closer and closer to turning the key and the relationship that key has to the cage. Well, it turns out that once that little gorilla figures out how to get out of that enclosure, you've got an entirely different situation on your hands. You've got a 600. 800-800-pound silver baccarilla, you know, you got Harambe now on the loose.

So better hold on to little Johnny because now you've got this monkey that's loose in the zoo. And who knows what he's going to do? Let's face it, we are not necessarily a very peaceful species, right? Pretty much every invention we have, we figure out a clever way to use it against each other. So maybe, maybe one of the theories is that they're just monitoring our development. You know, are we really ready to have that kind of technology available to us? you know, if you look at some of these countries out there, maybe even even our own, someone argue, no, we're not. You know, you mentioned some of these things that we do to each other,

whether it's through food and anything else. You know, we do a lot of nasty things for profit. You know, we have done a lot of nasty things in all in the vein of science and humanity and evolving as a species. But they haven't all been very nice, have they? And so we have to ask ourselves, you know, are we really ready for this technology? If that is a real concern, you know, what does that mean for us? You know, are we really ready to go out and meet our neighbors? You know, we haven't been really good to ourselves inside the house. We have a pretty messy home. I'm really ready to go out and shake hands with, you know, the person next for it. I definitely do not want to release a lot of humans into the known or unknown universe.

I don't think we are at all ready to be steward. Spoken like a true Canadian. Everyone should stay home and get better at living on earth. Well, I actually, I wonder, Lou, can you speak a little bit to the patriotism of this? Because, you know, it's especially a really interesting time in our country right now to think about what does it mean to truly love this country, to truly love humanity, right? And this is not about politics because Lord knows if I could figure it out, I wouldn't be sitting here. with Jonathan.

But we're having a lot of conversations about what does it mean to defend the Constitution? What does it mean to be a loving American? What does it mean to tell the truth about what is happening? And you could say this on either side and everywhere in the middle, right? But what's fascinating to me from what you just said is, you know, I'm a lover of humanity,

but a lot of people behave in ways that are very, very harmful. And I mean that on a personal level. I mean that on a community level and on a government level, right? And part of what you did and part of the sort of the penance that I believe the government had to give, not just to you, but to the American people, was to say, we don't get to keep pretending that everything is okay. We don't get to keep pretending that we're the smartest government in the world, and we're the most humane army in the world.

No country can claim that, right? But I wonder if you can talk about where this fit into, you know, especially as, you know, your dad was an immigrant and you served this country. You laid your life on the line over and over and over. For people you didn't know, for governments that you didn't understand,

and for causes that may not have even made sense to you, right? How is revealing what you chose to reveal the way you revealed it an act of patriotism? Sure. Well, let me pile on to your first observation. I agree with you. I often tell people I love humanity. It's humans that I don't particularly like, but I love humanity. I think to be a patriot, you have to do things sometimes that don't seem very patriotic at the time.

I took an oath to defend this country from all enemies of foreign and domestic and to serve the American people. I take that oath very seriously. I have not yet ever been relieved of that oath. It is a lifelong oath that I took. And it turns out that the enemy in some cases was the bureaucracy. We have a responsibility to speak truth to power. Why is that? Because this is a government that is for the people and by the people.

And if you forget that, then you shouldn't serve the public interest. You shouldn't be in government. You know, the American people are, as the American people, the government serves us. We do not serve the government. And we forget that because we rely on the government to make decisions for us. And sometimes the government may go beyond their authorities and in the interest of the public, make decisions that really aren't in the interests of the public. And frankly, it's not up to them to decide.

It's up to us, the people to decide. And so, you know, my idea of loyalty came from, look, I'm the first one to tell you, you know, I went to war so people could be who they want to be and what they want to be. Just don't tell me what I have to be, but I'll defend your right. I don't care if I agree with it or not. I'll defend your right in your life so you can do it and put my life on the line deliberately. So you have the right to express yourself. However you want to do that. What I don't agree with is when, you know, people, forests and governments,

force their interpretation of rights on me, right? I don't want the government to tell me that, you know, this is a certain way of expected behavior towards certain things. You know, the government has a long history of doing good things, but it also has a long history of doing bad things. I mean, look in the medical perspective, you know, look at the syphilis experiments we did. We let people die when we had cures just so we could see what would happen, right? Human beings. We did think where we tested LSD on the public, you know, to see what would happen. Then we made LSD illegal when people started having transcendental experiences and wanted to be loving and kind of each other. Right, right, exactly, you know. And so, you know, we don't always make

the right decision. And at the end of the day, I tell people, look, if you're about your government, look in the mirror, because it's up to you to change it. If you don't like it, then do something about it. Don't sit back and just cry about it and say, oh, it's all their fault. Do something. Get up. You've got a voice. You've got fingers. You can write to your member of Congress. You can get involved. Don't be a victim. You know, victim is a cop out. That's a cheap way. Don't do that. If I played the victim on this, I never would have come out and just kept my high-paying government job and lived on the government, you know, dull and retired comfortably. You know, this country means a lot more than that. People have died. Now, people always come to me to say, oh, you're this hero. No, I'm not a hero. I'm just a regular dude. I know what a hero is because I served with them. And some of them didn't make it back. So I know what a real hero is. I'm just a regular dude that is doing what I said I would do, that anybody else in my position would have done the same,

maybe even better job than me. And that's my perspective. And I think we have an obligation, a moral obligation, to make sure this government works in the interests of the American people. I'm not, look, I quit the government out of loyalty, not disloyalty. I quit to finish the very job they gave me in the first place. I'm not, I don't want to destroy anything. You know, I'm trying to fix it.

And it's tough because, you know, it's not like a car when your car overheat. You can take it to the shop and put it up on lifts and, you know, they can take the engine apart and replace the water pump. We've got to fix it while the car is doing 80 miles an hour down a highway with kids inside. You know, that's a lot more difficult to do. And so this is kind of what motivates me to do what I'm doing. It's just just have the government do what it's supposed to do. I'm not asking for a lot. Just work right.

And if the government at the end of the day talks to Congress and the American people say, hey, this is great, but you know what? This is not really our priority. Cool, fine. But you know what? At least you had a chance to make that decision for yourself. It wasn't made by some bureaucrat sitting in some office that doesn't want you to know. And so that's what it means to me to be a patriot and to be loyal.

This is what I wrote down. what the actual fuck is going on if we admit that we are not alone in the universe. I wonder, is there a possibility that there will be, I don't know, like mass hysteria or that people will freak the F

out if people... Is that why people resist this information? Like, is that why my teenagers are like, hmm? I think, first of all, America can handle the truth. And I think America deserves a truth. And I think the world does. There was a time where the U.S. government

had several studies done where they said, if you had this conversation now, you're going to create panic and mass hysteria. People are going to lose their minds, are going to lose their faith in God. We cannot have this conversation now. That was a real study done by the U.S. government. I don't agree with that. Look, it's been the last six, seven years now, and we've been having this conversation thanks to people like you that are willing to have this conversation, thanks to people like your audience that are interested and curious. And you know what? They're still paying their mortgages. They're still paying their cell phone bills. They're still going to the PTA, and with their kids at school, society hasn't broken down, has it?

What you're referring to is what is called sometimes as ontological shock or this crisis of conscience, right? Where people say, I can't deal with this information. I just can't accept it. But look, we have been here before. Let's face it. These paradigm moments in humanity's existence occur all the time. They don't occur very often in one's lifetime, but they occur as a species all the time. as a species all the time.

And there are these moments, for example, where our universe gets suddenly a whole lot bigger. Maybe when we first come out of the cave, when we gaze upon the heavens, we say, wow, the universe is really a lot bigger than the cave I live in. Maybe when we struck two rocks together, created fire, and all of a snow,

we could illuminate the darkness and the monsters hiding behind the bushes, well, they were just bushes, right? Also when maybe two fishermen were standing on a stony beach and one looks through the other and says, I'm going to sail over the horizon. I'm going to do that. And the other guy said, you can't do that because you're going to fall off the earth and there's sea monsters and giant crackens and they'll destroy your ship now.

But right, we kind of laugh about that. But you know what? In reality, they were right because it turns out that there are sea monsters except for they're called blue whales and great white sharks and the great squid of the Pacific. And then I will leave sea monsters, are they? They're just part of our nature. They're part of our natural environment. And so maybe with this topic, we're just standing on the shores of another beach about the sail over the next horizon. This is maybe our destiny.

This is where we are supposed to go as a species, as humanity, to constantly explore the unknown. It is in our DNA to reach for the heavens, reach for the stars, whether it's spiritually or intellectually or physically. Okay, this is the perfect segue into my final question. So there are those among us who walk among us who believe all this stuff. And they've believed it since before imminent came out, right? there are people who have what they would describe as access to other sources of energy, to other awareness about our existence, about other things.

There are people who seem to be more predisposed to experiencing things that we cannot explain, to understanding things that cannot be understood. We sometimes call it intuition. Perhaps historically it was called shamanism or, prophecy, right? If you read, and you actually quote from this, if you read the book of prophets and you look at it like an intuitive, fascinating, transcendental spiritual experience, you have a completely different framework. This wasn't people walking around being like, I see gargoyles, right? This was, I have access to something that allows my brain to perceive

something outside of our normal experience. But in certain cases, and this has happened, as you said, through all of human history, there have been. people who believed and they were ridiculed, they were burned at the stake. They were shunned. They're in, I see them in their little online groups, right? They have to huddle together and they can't speak too loud. Your book is kind of bridging some of this complexity. And I wonder if you can talk about, do you have any different understanding personally of people who claim to be intuitive or people who claim to believe in this stuff from long ago without the physics, without the evidence, without any of the government telling us that it's okay to believe what we want

to believe, who are those people in this context? Well, the government has had a longstanding interest in some of this metaphysical attributes you're talking about. In fact, one of my colleagues, Dr. Hal Pudoff, was the godfather, if you will, to the CIA's psychic espionage program called Stargate or Remote Veeling. Before that, it was called Operation Grill Flame and a bunch of other names before that, where we actually trained soldiers to be psychic spies. And by the way, Russia did the same thing. And there's some very compelling data to suggest that it actually worked.

It was very effective. Now, with that said, belief is something very interesting. There's several types of truths in the world. There is a universal truth like gravity, right? If I drop this, it's going to fall, just like you and me and everything else. But then you have something called personal truths that are just as truthful as those, but they're not accepted by everybody. So what do I mean by that?

politics, religion. I am absolutely sure this is the only God in the world, right? But if you talk to somebody else, they're just as sure. And so that's a personal truth. And so we have to recognize that there is a difference. One's not more important than the other, but there's a difference between the personal truth, which is not universally accepted,

and a universal truth, which is. And then we have to understand that there are aspects to the human being that is beyond the physical body and our mind, What do I mean by that? Well, if I get into a car action, I lose a limb, I'm still Lou. In fact, if I get into an action, I lose all my limbs. I'm still Lou. I'm still who I am. And if I get a traumatic brain injury and now I've got cognitive issues with my intellect, the essence of Lou is still there. I'm still Lou. So it's not really my intellect or my body that defines who I am or who you are. There's something else. There's something that is more indelible, something more.

more intimate that defines us. And when people say, well, that's nonsense, well, let me ask you a very simple question. I ask you, do you love your children? Yes. How do you know? Prove it. Right?

Now, my point being is, I mean, I breastfed for a combined six years, Lou, I really, really love him. No, no, it's a trick question. My bone marrow, they got it all. Yeah, yeah, no, it's a trick question. My point is that we all recognize love, and yet we all will describe it a little bit differently.

It's very elusive. How do you prove it? You can't. And yet it is a universally, unless you're sociopathic, perhaps, it's a universally accepted. Just on the weekends. Attribute that is beyond, in fact, love doesn't even make logical sense. It actually sometimes works counter to like this maternal instinct that only a mother has,

right, where you're willing to lay down on the railroad track to protect your child. From a biological perspective, that doesn't make sense because you are putting yourself in harm's way. And yet, it is real. And so there are fundamental attributes of a human being that you can't touch it. You can't taste it. You can't hold on to it. And yet, it is the primary motivation many times for doing what we do as a human, as a species, right?

I think we have to be very careful. Look, we realize, going back to the original analogy, most of reality lies beyond our five senses. Okay. That's just a fact. So we should probably embrace that understanding sooner rather than later. And if you don't believe it, use your cell phone. That's proof. I mean, that's working off of frequencies that are beyond our comprehension.

And yet they are enabling this conversation we're having now. Imagine this. Electrons are flowing through a wire than going through a electromagnetic pulse that is going through the sky into space, bouncing off of a satellite, hitting another satellite, coming down to a ground station, going through fiber optics, being transmitted to light, coming up to your computer, and bam, you and I are having this magical conversation and we are separated by thousands of miles, right? Magic? Or just progression?

A lot of things that seem magical today is really just tomorrow's technology. But then there's the other part, which is the unexplainable. That part of us, that's not technology-based, it's spiritually based. It's a reason why some people are gravitated towards the Torah and the Hamud or you gravitate to the Bible or the Bhagita or the Koran because there's something there in the soul, the spirit, the id, the chi, whatever label du jour you want to give it, there's something there that's beyond the physical sense of what it means to be a human. And that's partly partly maybe where my patriotism comes from, why I'm doing what I'm doing, because I have this overriding belief that it is the right thing to do.

I must do it. I don't have a choice. And so to kind of close that loop, if we look at people who are intuitive, if we look at people who historically would have been shamans, right, would have been healers, it could be, and you talk about this in the book, is it the Caudet Poutaemon, is it like, you know, are there parts of the brain that we can hone in on and say there are people who are more either susceptible or you might say like, oh, easily gullible, so suggestible, but maybe they're

actually more open. Sure. Look, there's a couple experiments that were done. Fascinating, by the way. Let me ask you another little test here real quick. By the way, it's not a trick question. There's no right or wrong answer. But if I were to ask you in the most simplest, simplest terms that you know, either one of you, in fact, a sentence or less, few words as possible, what would your definition of the past be? It's the things that happened before this second that I'm speaking in right now. Perfect. How about things that have already occurred?

A past. And by that same logic, what is the future? Things that haven't happened yet, right? Only if you believe in a linear nature of time. Ah, we're getting there. Good. So you're tracking. This is where we're gone.

So what is the present? Well, the present isn't really a moment in space time. The present is a transitory process where the future becomes the past. And a way to maybe to visualize that is think of a cigar, whereas the ashes of the cigar that have already burned is the past. And the part of the cigar that hasn't burned yet is the future. And the cherry, that moment of ignition where the future becomes the past is the present. And in real life, it's probably expressed in plain time, to super, super, super small moment

of space time. And it's always moving. There's no such thing as now, because now doesn't exist. It's always moving forward. Now is, as you're saying now, and then it's already gone. Gone, right. And so, so the point being is that we live in this illusion of the now, but the now is really very fuzzy and always moving forward. And if you look at some of the quantum mechanical models of the electron cloud and whatnot, there is some information that that kind of reinforces this idea. But is it possible when you, so if you look at that cherry of the cigar, you were to focus in and kind of remove some of the glare, you would notice something very interesting happening.

You would notice that the cigar burns uneven. There are elements of the tobacco that are lighting before the other and ashes. So therefore, when you really get down to it, time gets very fuzzy. When you get to the very, very small, you start getting into this range where there's really no point in time. It's kind of this fuzzy spectrum. And is it possible that's how some of these. these clairvoyance or these other individuals live, whereas that some people experience the now, imagine that cherry a little bit bigger, where more elements of the future and more elements

of the past are experienced as if they're happening right now. And so therefore, it's a quantum process and you are able to perceive things that most people think is voodoo magic and yet is really just quantum science. That was the best explanation of... You say that to all your guests. Come on. No! That was literally the best explanation for hippie, intuitive, whatever it might be. And I use hippie very, very loosely here.

There's a lot of people who maybe don't have that skill and ability or aspiring to it. But, I mean, I'm blown away. I'm also blown away. I mean, like, you said we live in an illusion of the now. Lou, you're like a poet and you're like not a government worker who killed people all over the world. I'm Cuban and I have to think in very simple terms.

You're Cuban and you're Jewish. You're a unicorn. I'm a juvenile, right. And so I am literally, I have to think in very simple terms and use analogies because that's how my brain works. If you start mentioning complex ideas, I get lost. So I have to color by the numbers, you know.

Okay, one more question and then we let you go. What are your kids like? What is your wife like? Like your wife didn't even know you were studying all of this. Like your wife didn't know what your job was. You'd come home like just another day at the office. Like you couldn't tell her. Your kids, like your whole life, you had one of the most public resignations that our country has seen about one of the most sensitive things to our humanity.

How did your wife and kids adjust to like that you're there, dude? Well, first of all, my kids are the greatest accomplishment and achievement. I will ever have in my life. Nothing will ever come close to that. But I will tell you, and thankfully that they love me because the conversation I had with my wife the first time when I was about to do what I was about to do, let's just say that conversation went over like a lead balloon.

Not well. Like a spy balloon from outer space. Yeah, my wife was like, what are you, you're going to leave your job for what? You know, are people really worth it? Are they ready for it? it. But I have an amazing family and I have the support and that's the only reason why I've been able to get through it all, even during the time when they were trying to discredit me and investigate

and stuff like that. I never would have made it through had it not been for my family and I'm very blessed and I don't mean that lightly. Some of just people say, oh, I'm blessed. No, I really am. I mean, it's got me through war. It's got me through adversity. And I am the luckiest man alive. I could die tomorrow and I will die with a smile on my face because of having the opportunities I have with an amazing, amazing family. I think if more people had families like that, we probably wouldn't have war. The UAP legislation language is available online. The UAP Disclosure Act was eventually signed in 2003 by President Biden, which says that Congress has to approve taxpayer money being used for UAP research that we don't know about,

and national archives have to collect government documents and unidentified anomalous phenomena technologies of unknown origin and non-human intelligence. Thank you, Luis, Lou Elizando, for your service to this country. Thank you for talking to us. We are just such huge fans, not just of what you revealed, but the way that you chose to reveal it, and the eloquence and intelligence with which you present this information.

The book, Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs, imminent by Luis Elizondo, former head of the Department of Defense's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program and American Hero. It has been my sincere honor and privilege. Thank you, thank you, thank you. If there's anything I can ever do for you, let me know.

We just think you are, you're it, Lou. You are it. Thank you. Lou was in the middle of talking about how Legit. Entities were seen and targeted our military, like our military capability. Nuclear ballistics technology

was discovered to be disabled by UAPs, phenomenon that we do not understand and cannot understand with the current technology that we have. And this is reported by the U.S. government. He was also saying that these UAPs tend to congregate around military sites

interested in nuclear technology. And as he's describing it, sound goes out. Disabled. Disabled. He was disabled. He was taken from us. Here's skeptical breakdown.

Number one. Maybe this is technology that the U.S. government is developing and that's why when people find it, they're like, we don't know what this is. And scientists are like, we don't know what this material is.

And what is this slimy, translucent substance that keeps showing up? And why are animals being killed in a way that we literally cannot explain by any technology we know? The answer could be, The government, you don't get to know everything the government's doing, and they have technology

you don't know about, and it's for your own good, like just sit there and look pretty, American people. And it could be that. However, the response to that is, then President Biden and the nonpartisan committee that was responsible for releasing this information would have included that in the documentation. Unless the government doesn't want to claim that they have this technology. They'd rather claim that there are aliens. That way they can keep the technology for themselves because there's an arms race internationally likely, which is why I'm more interested in the crafts that have been found

and that I've heard that each country has a collection of these crafts that cannot be named and that there are all. trying to understand them, analyze them, and then replicate and reverse engineer the type of technology that has propelled them, which seems to be unknown to us right now. Correct. And what Lou says is that government investigations are not like academia. So for those of us who spent any time in college or in graduate school or honestly, even in high school or junior high school, well, junior high school and high school feel a little bit more like the military, I think. And I went to public school and had a great time.

But when you think about an academic institution, you think about an institution that thrives on different opinions, challenging opinions, things that are outside of the realms of our current understanding so that we can understand them better and an exchange of information, specifically between disciplines and departments. In the government, there is not the same kind of free exchange of ideas and disciplines. Before we got, before we booked this guest, before you got the book, if someone had asked you, do you believe in aliens, what would you have said? I would have said, no. I would have said, I think that there's things that we can't explain, which I think a very diplomatic thing for a scientist to say. And I think I would have assumed for some bizarre reason that everything I needed to know, the government would tell me. after three years of this podcast, you would have thought that? Oh, about this topic.

This is one of those that I think many people kind of shelve in a part of their psyche that does not get, you know, broken open. But is like, the government is going to tell me what I need to know is like the same as the government's food pyramid is like for optimal health? No, no. I think, look, I also don't want to paint with this. like global brush of like, I don't believe in anything that the government says and I can't trust anything. I think that's too broad of a brush for me. But I'm not suggesting that.

Let's keep it, you know, let's just keep it to aliens. Just keep it small. Well, they signed legislation that says that we need to be accountable for the money that's being spent and that programs that people don't know about should be...

Why is not everybody... Why is everyone not talking about this? Like, all the time? I think a lot of people are. What Lou says is that the government ignores things that they can't explain until it comes to the point that they cannot ignore them anymore. And his choice, you know, to put his own life at risk, his choice was to reveal something that he does not believe can be ignored anymore

on a national scale and on a global scale. I think a lot of people ignore things they can't explain. It's just like, what are those muddy footprints? I don't really want to know. They were your footprints. You forgot that you had stepped in mud and that you stood in your own kitchen with muddy footprints. I was talking about his analogy if you found muddy footprints.

People don't know the story of when I went into my kitchen and I saw these strange footprints. And I was like, who was in the kitchen? Send me a photo. It's very suspicious. I was very suspicious and then my was like, put your shoe.

It was like the treads look like those shoes that I hate that you wear. I kept putting my skeptical hat on throughout and like... Isn't that just your normal hat? No. I'm saying that like

even when he was saying things that I'm like, oh, that's like a thing, right? I kept thinking, I think this is just a facet of my personality. Like I'm always afraid that we're going to say something or that I'm going to say something or that I'm going to exist in a way that

makes people be like, but you're fundamentally wrong and you're stupid and you're delusional. And that's poppycock, right? That's an old-fashioned word for BS. And so throughout him, like whenever he's talking, like I just keep hearing like, you know, for some people it's their mom or their dad's voice. For some people, it's their ex-husband or an ex-girlfriend. for some people it's their current spouse, their children. Like, there's always people who are going to say, this is crazy, this is delusional,

there has to be an explanation. And my favorite piece of evidence to the contrary is this UAP Disclosure Act that was signed into legislation. And I don't want to hear anyone be like, well, that's because President Biden's so stupid and he's delusional too. This was a bipartisan project. there are Republicans on it, there are Democrats on it. This was an admission of something that is enormous.

I would like to go on record and say that I do not consider myself a believer in extraterrestrial activity before this podcast. And I'm not saying I am now or not. That's actually not the point. The point is that I was never really interested. in this line of questioning? It felt like conspiracy stuff to me. It really did. Military conspiracy,

some guy who doesn't like working for the government anymore, got mad, was sad that the government sent him to fight wars we shouldn't have been fighting and wants to get revenge. That's what I thought. I didn't even go that far. I was just like, I'm not really that interested in the aircraft that moves at this rate and this and that and the other thing. And, okay, the thing in Brazil,

where everyone gets vaporized and they're rushed to the hospital and there are these people who all have this different account of the type of, you know, entity or figure that they see and then touching those people who got close enough have this radioactive poison almost. And there's like all the, like I don't watch those documentaries. Like I acknowledge they exist. I don't dismiss them to say that it's 100% not true. I don't classify those people as they're in a collective delusion.

like I just actually don't spend my time disproving it or proving it to myself, and therefore I maintain this level of neutrality. And I think that's important because sometimes you classify me as this sort of out there person. And really in this subject area, like I was never really interested in an enormous amount of sci-fi growing up. And so when I come to this subject matter, I come from a place of being fairly neutral, being open-minded, not being overly skeptical, but also not really embracing the enormity of the information out there. And I've seen some of the videos.

I've seen the footage from planes, military planes, of unidentified objects and spacecraft moving. And I've heard some of the analysis of the physics of like, how could it move at that speed? And this notion of like the G-Force is 2000. and, you know, we kind of break at 17, like, well, how does that happen? Like, that's pretty unbelievable. And it kind of goes to this notion, I think, that it brings up, which is, one, is all this real.

Are there really all these government programs all around the world, each one of them collecting this bits of information that they're trying to put together, both from spacecraft or craft, as well as biological? so, you know, I don't know if it's too that broad to say dead aliens or pieces of alien matter that have been collected and are studied. And then it begs the question, you know, if that is all true, what is our place in the universe? Is time really nonlinear, meaning that there are things happening before or after? And then it does, and I know you don't like when I talk about the simulation.

but it does lead to that as, well, we didn't know anything else, and so are we in a simulation? And again, I spoke a little bit about this on the Josh Radner episode. I don't believe in a techno simulation where we're all just a bunch of robots being programmed in a game. But I do think there is something to the idea of an energetic simulation that we can pull back a veil of existence and see, for a lack of better word,

a matrix of energy, systems of energy that are being influenced and that this energy we are all a part of in some way and if it's manipulated or contorted in some way, it can influence us, even influencing our thinking. You've seen people who are not of the right mind or different minded than they normally are

and I'm not talking about hallucinations or a sense of, you know, quote unquote, crazy and I don't mean that in a derogatory term, but it's like their thinking is so outside of the normal of what they would normally say that it seems to not be them. But you see that people who get involved in either cult activity or they go down some sort of rabbit hole

where you're like, oh, I don't recognize their thinking anymore or they get into a relationship with someone and their thinking gets corrupted. So I do believe we live in an area where we are influenced in a way that could feel like control, but I don't believe that we're in a video game. And you wonder why I sometimes referred to you as out there. So I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to answer your questions.

Yes, these things are real. What the realness is is still, as Lou said, a little bit up for debate. It is real that there are things outside of our technological understanding and outside of our understanding of the laws of mechanics, physics, thermodynamics. It is real that we do not know what they do not know what. these things are. We do not know how to explain it. That at the least is real. Are there governments all over the world monitoring this? Yes. It's not just isolated, like grandma in her backyard, as he said. It's not just his experiences. It's not just, you know, people out in farms. You know,

yes, there are governments all over the world. If our government is doing this, yeah. This is, this is happening. And we know that this is happening in many places all over the world. then you went into like, what is our place in the universe? That's where it kind of gets metaphysical. Is time nonlinear? I mean, we know that it is. We know that we can, that the understanding of time, I mean, Black Holes is a great example of that.

And as he talks about in the book and in a lot more detail, we do have a potential explanation for how things by our assessment that we are classifying are actually not that, because if we're dealing with technology that can function in a different essentially dimension, literally, a dimension of the space-time continuum, we are going to perceive things that don't seem plausible because those things are not living by our rules of physics and thermodynamics and all those things. And then are we in an energetic simulation where we can open up a matrix of energy and systems of energy. I don't know that we can answer that today. But I do think that his cigar analogy is like my favorite analogy now for everything

ever. Because what he's talking about is you have an object that exists. You can hold it. You can smell it. You can taste it. You can smoke it. And that object, you can hold it. You can smell it. You can smoke it. and that object will be transformed into what we might call nothing, but it's actually not nothing, because what is produced is ash, which is evidence that something existed. And the process by which it goes from something to a different form of something is produced with smoke, but the actual moment of the transition between what it is and what it once was

is this dynamic and organic, glowing, asymmetrical, unpredictable entity, right? That we call the cherry of a cigar, right? And, you know, there's an entire branch of physics of, like, inkblot analysis. How does a drop of ink spread on a piece of paper? They actually, like, people study it. It's not like foo.

It's like a real thing, right? We can try and understand how that burns. we cannot predict how it will burn with entire infinite certainty. That's the place we're living. Like, we are the cherry of that cigar. If anyone has that experience with other life forms? You may get to be a guest on this show because we may need to talk in a lot of detail

about what's going on. Post in the comments, let us know what is up. If you believe in what has been talked about, post in the comments. Also, if you don't, believe. If you're like, yo, you guys have gone off the rails. I used to trust you. And now this has gone way too far. Let us know. I'm curious who you're listening to, who you're reading, what other guests are talking about this. There is a lot of information out there more.

I think we did hit an inflection point where it's harder and harder to keep these types of secrets because of the video footage that is being shown all the time. Yeah. Truth is out there, folks. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's my and Bialyx breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two one fiction. And now she's going to break down. It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down.