Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Vanessa Bayer & Jonah Bayer: Transcendental Meditation & Confronting Cancer with Humor

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

Vanessa Bayer (SNL, I Love That for You) joins us in the MBB studio to discuss using humor to cope with her cancer diagnosis as a teenager, her tenure as one of longest-running female cast members of Saturday Night Live, and her transcendental meditation practice. She opens up about her Make-A-Wish experience, landing SNL and the resiliency working on the show entails. Vanessa’s brother Jonah Bayer (writer, podcaster, musician) joins in virtually to discuss his current studies in a Clinical Mental Health Counseling program, what inspired him to enter into the mental health field, and why he’s interested in the mental health of creatives in particular. He opens up about his experience navigating Vanessa’s illness, his own battle with leukemia, and how he uses yoga to maintain his mental wellness. Vanessa and Jonah profess their deep love of Blossom, explain their working relationship as siblings, and consider the difficulties around getting started with any mental health treatment. Vanessa & Jonah's Podcast, How Did We Get Weird?: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-did-we-get-weird-with-vanessa-bayer-and-jonah-bayer/id1586365658 BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to ask a hard question. You don't have to answer it. Did you contemplate, like, death? I really did not. And I'll tell you one time I remember I was in the hospital, and I was with my mom, and I was, like, waiting to get some kind of scan or something, and it was taking forever.

And I remember asking my mom about it. It was, like, the only time death crossed my mind, and she looked at me, like, this is crazy. I don't know that I've ever talked about this before publicly. But probably you got a lot of this mime because you're... Who doesn't want to tell you so? And I remember my mom looked at me with both eyes, which is a really hard thing to do because I'm not...

Now I'm going to make... But like, you know how you normally look at one eye? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Okay. She looked it with both eyes. She looked you dead in the eyes. She looked me dead in the eyes.

No. No. Yeah. Okay. And she said, Vanessa, you're not going to die. And then I was over it. That was the only time I remember being scared. Because I think I was so optimistic.

about it, I just wasn't letting myself sort of go into that space. It's my ambiolic's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. Because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down. Hi, I'm Iambiolic and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to. We got a fun one today. And it's a fun one and their sibling. We're going to be talking to Vanessa Bayer today. Vanessa Bayer was on S&L. You might know her from Saturday Night Live. She was on for seven seasons. She's also been in train wreck and her show. I love that for you.

was a show she co-created that was inspired by her life. Her brother Jonah Bayer, they have a podcast together. Their podcasts called How Did We Get Weird with Vanessa Bayer and Jonah Bayer. I'm going to talk to Vanessa first, talk to her about her very interesting teenage experience. She was diagnosed with leukemia at 15 and has an incredible perspective on how that shaped her comedy and her life. And then we're going to bring on Jonah talk about their sibling dynamic and the incredible work that they do together. He also is a mental health professional. He recently finished a counseling program and they're just such an interesting sibling duo. I cannot wait. Jonathan is not here today, but Vanessa is here in person.

So let's get started with Vanessa Bayer, and Jonathan's really going to love this episode because there's a lot about blossom in it. Let's start with Vanessa Bayer. Welcome to the breakdown. Break it down. Wow, I am so excited to be here, Ma'am. Is your teenage self excited?

Yeah, and the adult self. It's very, very nice to have you here. I'm a fan of yours in many ways, and not just because people are like, the two of you kind of look alike. And I was like, juice, or just Jews. We're not all related, but kind of we are. In some way.

Let's just get it out of the way. Yes. Because if Jonathan were here, this would be the first and only thing he'd want me to talk about. So you are six years younger than me, which means you were kind of prime age to watch Blossom. And apparently you did. I was obsessed with Blossom.

When my brother joins later, we'll talk about how we did, or we can talk about it now. We did a whole show honoring Plossom. I used to watch it so much as a kid. And then as a teenager, it was on, it was be like reruns in like the early evening. And I would watch everything again. Remember when you went to Paris? I didn't believe it.

And I was obsessed with it. And then when I moved to Chicago as a young adult doing improv and that stuff, I would watch reruns late at night, and I started following all the cast and everything. And that's sort of how I became friends with Jenna Von Oye, because she followed me back. I don't know. This is how we met, okay? I watched the finale of Blossom, and I had remembered it being different. And so I messaged her. No, you did then. Yes, I messaged her on Instagram. I direct messaged her. And I said, now, I wish I had looked it up, because when she came on my podcast, I looked up the exact conversation.

but I said something to the effect of, I watched the finale. It was not what I remember. What I remember is that it was sort of like a breaking the fourth wall thing where you realize it's a show, it's a TV show, and you kind of call it out as being a TV show, and it's whatever. And then she wrote me back. Now, I'm giving you more specific details.

Oh, I want it all. Okay. She wrote me back and she said, I think you're not thinking of the finale. I think you're thinking of an episode that came a few episodes earlier called episode. Oh. Where Blossom has a dream that six is Blossom. Oh, yes.

And that's what I think it was and waking up from the dream and stuff. You know, not to question Jenna Von Oye's expertise, because that woman's got a mind like a steel trap. But is it not true that in our final episode we did kind of... I could have sworn, but I don't think you do. Here's the story. I was stone cold sober for all those years, and I remember very little of anything that happened.

Jenna, I mean, she is our best kind of biographer, but I know that Don Rio, who created Blossom, you know, he really wanted to, you know, make that last episode, you know, kind of special. I seem to remember that we broke that part of the law at some point, or maybe not. Because I watched the episode she told me about a called episode, and I was like, I think you're right. I think that's what I was thinking of. Okay.

But I also wonder if when I watched, the finale, and we're going to call it in 2008. Like, I watched it like years and years. I wonder if because it was on, it was like a rerun, I wonder if they cut off like the ending or something where that. Because I almost remember you, I remember like you waking up on the couch and I don't know. But anyways, Jenna Van Nuys responded to me, oh no, so this must have been when I was living in New York. I think I was living in New York, so I was already on SNL.

And then... Wait, you were on SNL and watching Blossom at the same time? Every night. That's kind of insane. So she wrote me back and then immediately, when I asked her about this finale episode, and then like two weeks later, she wrote me back and she was like, oh, I just realized who you are and that you're on SNL. So I, she, it wasn't because of, like, who I was. It was just because I was a fan.

And I needed this information about the finale of Blossom. So, sorry, I'm just like, I mean, you... You had an amazing run on SNL. Wait, I'm not ready to move on yet. No, but I was going to, it was, okay, go on. Okay, go. No, no, you're not done. Go.

I need you to get it all out. I have one more thing that I have to ask you about. Okay. Your clothes on that show, we're so incredible. How much say, like, did you, just the level, I keep thinking about, I'm sorry, I'll stop for you. It's fine. I keep thinking about, like, the, remember the very 90s thing of, like, shirts that were, like,

striped everywhere and were sort of, um, ribbed. Yeah. You had a lot of, you were pulling that off. Like all of your outfits were so cool. How, what was that process like? And I know that this is your podcast. No, it's fine. This is literally, I mean, it's as if Jonathan's here.

Like, is there a bug in your ear? And Jonathan's like, ask her about this. So we had a designer. Her name was Sherry Thompson. Okay. And she really, she really was, you know, the brain behind sort of what we wanted this character to look like. And Sherry was just like one of these awesome designers who just like always looked amazing.

You know, she wore like these like big, like cool, like, you know, artsy tops and like leggings before people were wearing leggings. Right. You know, like all the time. And she always had just like cool shoes. And she had a lot of clothing from her travels around the world. And so this was something that like she felt was really important as part of Blossom's style that there was fabrics and styles from kind of everywhere. And, you know, sometimes we did like more plain stuff. And, like, as I got older and was more of, like, a surly teenager in real life, I was like,

oh, my gosh, like, does every outfit have to be, like, reinventing the wheel? So, you know, we definitely did, like, crop tops with, like, pants with overalls, like, you know, things like that. I mean, to a T. But, yeah, but in the early years especially, you know, it was seen as very unusual. And, and, look, I mean, you were a little bit younger than me, but growing up, like, girls like us, we didn't go on television. Right.

You know, like, nobody looked like, like, like, the Jewish. next door, like the girl you know from summer camp. Except you looked so cool. Well, I mean, I think like that remains to be, that's up for debate. But I think the notion that like I wasn't sort of like this like classic teenage leading lady. Right, right, right. I think he wanted the clothing to reflect.

Yeah. Like this is a quirky kind of girl. And I was a very eclectic dresser, you know, as well. My parents were as well. Okay. Well, that's really interesting. And I loved your clothes. And I also just want to say before I forget, and then we can move on.

you are just so funny on that show and everybody like to me it's the show that when people are like what show is still like still if I watch an episode of Blossom I am laughing out loud it is such a funny show and everyone's timing is so good like it's crazy

but the way that you like kind of like zing like it just it really is incredible how funny you are on that show like you're a kid and your timing is like okay so here's a question did that impact your SML runs. I guess that's why I went into, probably, it probably did. I just can't imagine that you were, you know, one of the, one of the longest running females, you know, on like literally the show that

comedians want to be on. I was once at an NBC party, because Blossom was an NBC show, you know, back in the day. And so I once got to go, once got to go to an NBC party, I think it was before I had kids and I ran into like Tina Faye and Maya Rudolph and Amy Poehler in like the bathroom like it was at um it was at like Rockefeller. It was like I thought ice skating rink and there was you know a thing and I just like went to pee and like they were there and they also mentioned like oh my God you were on blah it was so bizarre. I think just I mean I don't know I wonder if you feel this way like you know there's part of your work that's just like it's yours it exists on a stage and then it, you know, kind of goes out there. But it's very strange to me, you know,

very flattering, but very strange to hear that, you know, that people watch awesome, like, especially even into... It's an incredible show. It really is. It's incredible. Thank you. That you're so young and you're just, like, it's great. It's really funny. So let's talk a little bit about you. Okay, I'll maybe. So you grew up in Ohio. Yes. Outside of Cleveland? A suburb of Cleveland, where everyone's from.

Okay, got it. And were your parents also from Cleveland? Oh, yes. Just everybody's Midwest. Yes, everybody from the Midwest. Okay. From the, yeah, we were from the like northeast Ohio, the eastern suburbs of Cleveland. Okay, got it.

And you have a brother. We're going to talk to him soon. Yes. And it sounds like both of your parents kind of were, naturally funny? I mean, not industry funny, correct? Yeah, our dad was like a real, the real ham amongst his friends. Like, he was the one who was always making jokes and doing impressions for his friends. And I think our mom was more of a, more of a, had more of a light, lighter touch with her comedy, but always just naturally very funny.

But neither of them were entertainers. No, not at all. Our mom worked at the JCC. She was head of early childhood, the Jewish Community Center, and still has a lifelong path. to go. Of course. Unfortunately, does not extend to us, which I'm a little pissed about. Tragic. But, and our dad had a, had a packaging company. So, like, they didn't work in, in that stuff at all, but they were supportive of us doing kind of creative things. So that was very nice. Miami-B Alex's breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful.

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down to help support the show. When you were 15, you were diagnosed with the L word leukemia. Yes, yes. And, you know, I didn't know this about you. Like, I mean, I kind of like knew it in sort of satellite, like, oh yeah, I had heard. And you also, you wrote a really beautiful children's book. It's called How Do You Care for a Very Sick Bear? Right. And, I mean, I know it sounds like possibly the dumbest question ever. But it's really, What do you remember of that time? Well, I'm sure I was watching Blossom during that time. But also, sorry, sorry, real question.

Okay. Well, do you remember like, oh, I'm not feeling what? Like, was it that kind of thing? Yes, it was that kind of a thing. It was, well, to get really into the, like, details of it, my eye swelled up and we didn't know why. And I was getting these headaches and stuff. And so basically, first they thought it might be like a rheumatoid thing or whatever.

And then they realized that I did all this testing. they realized that it was leukemia. And I was always pretty, I was always pretty optimistic about getting through it and everything. But it was a really crazy thing where I was in ninth grade. I guess it was over spring break of ninth grade that I was diagnosed. And then I just didn't go back to school for the rest of the year. And I had like 10 months of intense chemo and then two more years of maintenance chemo because it's one of those cancers that they treat for a really long time. So it doesn't come back. But I remember. I remember, you know, I had the show, I loved that for you.

And so one of the things with that that we would talk about was like, I wanted to do something about how really when I was, when I was sick, I really tried to get like as many perks as I could out of it. And so like as someone who already liked detention, it was, you know, and I'm, and I, you know, I think you remember sometimes like the more positive things or at least I do. But so I just remember, you know, it was hard. I hated missing school, especially at that age. Of course, you're so social. And I hated that. And like, I went back to school in 10th grade, but I missed something like 45 days or something like that.

But also people really were like, I was very special for my grade. And I got to not do gym class. And I got to like do all these kind of like things. And I really, I really sort of was like, I'm going to really make the most of this. So I feel like as much as, you know, it's something, it was a, you know, a scary and, you know, hard thing. I also, and I also think that it really helped my friends a lot for me to joke about it. Like, it sort of put them at ease. So I had all these jokes, which I don't know how funny they are in retrospect, but I remember, like, an example of a joke I used a lot was like,

you think you're so cool because your hair is real, you know, because I'd be wearing a wig or something. And but I was like, it put them at ease and reminded them that I was still the same person. Did you, I mean, not to get deeply pathological about it. Did you feel like you had to make other people feel okay about it? I think that was part of it for sure. And I think that's such a big thing with people who are going through it. Like, you just, it's, I don't know. It's like so many of us have that thing of, like, wanting to, like, make sure everybody else is, like, feels okay about things.

But I, I just, I, it was helpful for me to laugh about it, I think, too. And also, I just do think that sometimes, and this is. sort of some of the stuff in my children's book is like sometimes when someone gets sick or is going through some kind of trauma, like people think that they're different now or something and they don't have the same personality and they're like they have a whole new like there's a whole new person in there. And it's not. It's just that they're dealing with this thing. So I think it kind of, I wanted to remind my friends that like I still like joking about the same stupid things. I still wanted to know every single bit of gossip that was going on in my grade.

Like I didn't, I wasn't, I wasn't like the person who only thinks about, like, medical. Sure. Yeah. Well, I mean, I would imagine that that was probably also supported. It sounds like your parents probably, you know, but also now that you're a grown-up, like, also must have been terrifying. I'm going to ask a hard question. You don't have to answer it.

Did you contemplate, like, death? I really did not. And I'll tell you one time I remember I was in the hospital and I was with my mom and I was like waiting to get some kind of scan or something and it was taking forever. And I remember asking my mom about it was like the only time death crossed my mind. And she looked at me like this is crazy. I don't know that I've ever talked about this before publicly, but probably you got a lot of this mime because you're, who doesn't want to tell you something.

And I remember my mom looked at me with. both eyes, which is a really hard thing to do because I'm not, now I'm going to make you, but like, you know how you normally look at one eye? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. She looked it with both eyes. She looked me dead in the eyes. Uh, no. No. No. No. I'm not intended. Okay. And she said, Vanessa, you're not going to die. And then I was over it. That was the only time I remember being scared because I think I was so optimistic about it that I just wasn't letting myself sort of go into that space. I mean, I think I had other, there were definitely other things that I was worried about, but in terms of death, I really, that really wasn't on my, like, radar, really. And you got to do a

make a wish? Okay. I mean, there's like, like, there's several skits that I want to write about the make a wish notion. And that's a fantastic organization. I've actually had the honor of participating in many wishes. Like, you know, we would have. Oh my gosh. People come to. Come to blossom? No, not, actually, we might have, I don't think it was as big of a thing, but on Big Bang Theory. I know, it's funny, like, you were on another enormous show and I'm like, people came to Plossom though, right?

But I'm sure they came to Big Thuring. But probably the organization was more developed by the time of Big Bang. I might die, but I have to go on Blossom set. No, it's more of the Big Bang thing. But, but I, I really, you know, I'm, I mean, I've heard like, you know, I've heard several stand of comedians like do bits about Make a Wish. But like, what did you choose? Okay, first of all.

Also, were you adorable? I mean, I've seen pictures of you as a little one. Well, I was a teenager. So I, well, so I don't think I was like, you know, I didn't look like a cute kid, which when you see cute kids on Make Delicious, you go, oh, that's so cute. You're like, yeah. Gangly teenager. But so I, this is an interesting story.

So I, and also just a thing that a lot of people don't know is that you don't have to be terminal to do Make a Wish anymore. I can do it. Yeah. Anyway, anyway. You just have to have a life-threatening disease. So just find something in your medical history that you could exploit. Well, you have to be, I think, 18 or younger, but retroactively, I don't know what the rules are. But the point is, so I have, so I ended up going to Hawaii with my family, which was a really, that was my wish.

But was that what you really wanted to be a wish to be? That was what I wanted my wish to be because I'll tell you that I have another funny story about it, which is that I initially, I was really into my so-called life and I wanted to meet Jared Lotto. That was going to be my wish because you can meet anyone, go anywhere, or get anything. Like at that time, a lot of people were getting computers because like the internet was pretty new. Oh my gosh, that's funny. So a lot of people... Little did we know, you'd be holding one in your hands in another 20 years who needed to make it was.

I mean, you pick one of those up on any corner. but at the time, you know, you'd have to get the whole setup with the computer and the, well, basically the same as you need now. But the point is, their laptops aren't as big. But the point is, I was like, I went to meet Jared Leto. And then so I was taking to Hawaii. And take him to Hawaii. So that was going to be my wish.

And then I said to my parents that I actually would, I would prefer to meet Jared Letto in the future when we're peers. So instead I'd like to go to Hawaii. And my parents were like, okay. But then when I was on SNL, I was presenting at the MTV Video Awards, and so was Jared Leto. Stop it. I know. It's crazy.

Did you tell him you almost wish for him when you had looking at him? It's unclear how this went down, and I need to ask her again, but our SNL publicist saw his publicist told him, and then I think his publicist told him, and then he came up to me, and he took a picture of us to yet. I died. And he put it on his Instagram, so I had access to the picture. I didn't even have Instagram yet. Like Instagram was pretty new.

And he said to me, he said, I think you're a very talented actress. And so I don't know that he knew who I was because usually that's not what you say to people were on SNL. You don't know? I don't know. But anyways, he was so nice and I was dead. I was just like, this is so crazy that I, and also. It's good you didn't waste your wish on him.

I know. I know. What if I'd wasted my wish? And then I saw him again at the MTV Awards. And I was like, oh, nice to see you again. This is awkward. I happen to be looking at this picture of you in Hawaii. So, like, you're all jingies.

We're all jingies. I know. Our mom has, our mom is... My uncle David was a redhead like that. Okay, yes. And your brother is also, like, he's kind of coppery? Yes. I want to say that our mom is...

She's 70... Still red? Yes. They often don't... Early 70s still red hair. It's crazy. The red gene is a thing. Also, I'm really...

really digging your outfit. Because I just, we'll post this picture. You're in like the super baggy jeans. You're beautiful. I mean, like, you're like, I mean, you're just beaming. You're like, I'm in Hawaii. Well, because I think that we worked it out so that I was able to go on that trip when I was, I think by the time I did it, I was done with chemo and stuff.

Your hairhead. So I'm just, yeah, I'm like, and I think I had just gotten into college early. So I was like, I'm set here. That was. high school. Yes. You were voted most likely to succeed. I'm going to say something that I hope you don't think is in bad taste.

Were they like, she fucking beat leukemia? She's going to. Oh, I mean, I was, I think people were like, that was, I was a shoe in. It would have been so weird to vote for someone else. I think. That's amazing. Yeah. I think I read that one.

So you, did you know you wanted to be a comedian? Like, was that clear to you? You've really walked into a trap, which is. It was me talking about my all-female sketch comedy and musical parody trip in college called Blumers. But you didn't major in theater. No. You majored in French and communications. Yes.

Which, you know, learning such good communication stuff. It's funny because my brother went to Ithaca College and he majored in communications and learned a lot of practical skills. And this is no burn on my school. But like, we learned like, you know, what does space teach you about communication? you know, although there were some good children's, children in media classes and stuff that made me want to write a children's book and all that kind of stuff. But, um, so yeah, I studied communications in French, but then I tried out for this, uh, sketch comedy group. And that became like, it was like I was said, you found your people. I found my people.

That's exactly right. Because in high school, um, obviously I had the whole leukemia thing, but also even before that, like my, I was good at school, but all of my friends were good at sports and other things. And I, you know, I was very... The Midwest. It's going to happen. I was very bad at all that stuff. And I was like, oh, it must be so nice to, like, get something.

And then when I started doing my comedy group, I was like, oh, this feels like something that I understand that I get. And you started for that kind of sketch comedy, you're not just performing. You're writing as well. And you're, like, developing characters and stuff. Yes. Yes. So, you know, not to like... And we're doing song parody, too.

I just don't want you to leave that. as well. Yeah. Okay, good. Song, so tell us one of the coolest forms of the comedies.

I think, I'm a Weird Al fan. So, like, oh, this is crazy. Oh, yeah, no, you're in a very safe place. We had Weird Al on our podcast and we realized

that something that I had written, we, one of the things that we did in Bloomer's, he had never recorded but had done live, which was the offspring song, keep him separated about laundry. That's amazing.

And that we both had the refrain. Sorry to sing on your podcast. Do it. Hey, it's laundry day instead of come out and play. I get it. I'm grooving on it. That is really awesome.

So this was, I mean, it was something that you did kind of like as a hobby, but then... It's sort of, sorry, I became director. I was just going to say, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was going to be my next thing. I mean, it's no small thing to, like, get on SNL. Like, this is like a real, like, this, whatever path you took. Yeah. Different from some of the other SNL folks.

Well, I am the first bloomer to reach. Well, so this is what I was going to say. So was it clear that, like, you had that something? Well, then I was like, I have to do this as my job because I like this. I get it. It feels so fun. So then I moved to Chicago after college. Got it.

And I took improv classes and did all that stuff. But meanwhile, I worked at an ad agency and some other jobs. I know. That communications degree. That communications. I will say, when you graduate from college, Everyone's looking for someone who is a communications major. And I go, why?

We don't know anything. But it's like a thing. But you know how to say that you don't know anything. It's like, yeah. So I worked at, yeah, production company and then this ad agency. And but at night and on the weekends I would do improv and sketch and that kind of stuff. And I always knew that I wanted to work. Like I would love to be on TV and do something like Blossom.

And then a year before I got on SNL, I got very focused on SNL. and I came up with like a five minutes of characters and that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah. And then, because they used to come to, S&L used to come to Chicago like every summer. Chicago for people who don't know. Like that is sort of like, like, it was like Toronto, Chicago kind of groundlings in Los Angeles. Those are kind of like the hubs of, you know, of comedy. And some of your favorite comedians come out of Chicago and Second City and like that whole, you know.

Tina. Yeah, yeah, that's that. So, wow. So you ended up, you were on S&L for seven years. Yeah, yeah. Do you, and I'm not asking this for kind of gossipy reasons, but, you know, kind of we've had other SNL alums here. You know, was your experience like, oh my gosh,

this is like all these amazing creative people, but also it's crazy and hectic, and it's like kind of the craziest ride of your life? Yes, it was, it's like, Is that what everybody who's on S&L said? It's like such high highs and such low lows because it's like you can have an amazing show, but also your show going into the dress rehearsal can be amazing. And then everything you're in gets cut and then you do the live show and you're not in the show or like stuff.

You know, it's just, it's a hard. It's sort of like there's three times during the week when you have the experience of like a high school play where there's kind of like a list up. And you see if your stuff got cut. You know, so it's like whether your sketches get in and then whether your stuff makes it past dress rehearsal, whether your stuff gets cut during the live show. It's like there's just so many times. Yeah. I'm going to say something also that I'd never thought I'd say.

You seem really nice and easygoing. Yeah. But also to get to this level, like there's also an aspect of like competitiveness. I'm not saying like, did you have a bitch moment? That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that like there's also something in you that must be extremely resilient. Because to have such a pleasant countenance as a comedian.

Right, right, right. And, you know, women, it's, like, we judge our women differently. And, like, women in comedy, it's like, we have all these rules of, like, is she skinny enough? And, like, you know, her it's this. Yeah. But there's such a, there's a, there's a really, like, it feels like you're very, like, you're like a normal person that, like, communicates well, has, like,

thoughts, feelings and, like, understands your internal psychology. And that kind of environment is really challenging. Yeah, it was hard. Did you feel that clash? Yeah, I did at times. And one thing that Kristen Wiggs said to me really early that I really think was a good thing to remember was like the show is competitive, like the way that it's set up, like only a certain number of sketches can get in and whatever. But the people aren't like it's like I tried to like just focus on that like it was I was part of this thing that was that was inherently competitive but that tried not to personalize it too much, which is impossible not to do. And I would do that all the time.

And then the longer you're there, the more you sort of, you know, you can sort of say things to yourself and really believe them of like, whether I'm in the show or not, I'm still, I'm still getting paid the same. You know, that's a real soothing thing to think about. And then also just the thing that it's the thing that's so funny too is like you, when, as someone who watches the show, like when you watch the show, you're not counting how many times your people that you like are in it, like how many sketches are in. Right. But when you're in the show, you're like, how many sketches? And so just remembering the thing that, like, people would tell me that took me almost the whole time I was there to really digest is like, if you have, like, a couple good sketches this season that stand out that, that, like, that's great. That's all you need. I mean, you had, you know, a lot of that.

Who was your closest, you know, kind of comrade? Like, do you have, like, a certain buddy that you were like, oh, this was a person that I really connected with personally? I had, I had, the first person who comes to mind is 80 because I knew 80 Bryant. We knew each other in Chicago. And then she got on two years after. Wow. And that was incredible. Like, can you, like someone that you already know and love.

Like she, that was incredible getting on with her. Taryn Killam and I became very, we're still very close. And Beck Bennett and Kyle Mooney. There was a lot of people. But 80, it was crazy because I already was good friends with her. That's so fun. And that was insane. I want to invite on someone.

who might be familiar to you. Okay. Your brother. Jonah is going to join us. Jonah's your brother. You're two years apart, correct? Yes, yes. Two years apart.

And he's a writer and a musician and does many awesome things. And he's currently a grad student at Antioch, which is very exciting. It's the clinical mental health counseling program. And I'm very excited to talk to both of you about your podcast and other fun things. So let's invite Jonah on. I'm going to put on these headphones. Yes, yes. what you do.

Jonah, welcome to the breakdown. Hi, how are you? I'm doing great. Thank you for listening as your sister interviewed me about

Blas. It's really, really nice to have you. And I'd love either one or both of you. It kind of, I don't know why all of a sudden I'm like,

it's like having twins. Like, who's going to answer first? Like, I don't know. You have this podcast called, how did we get weird with Vanessa Bayer and Jonah Bayer? And it's a very cool format. And I'm kind of curious, which one of you wants to talk about how you came up with this

idea? Because it's such a great catch-all for like anything that could happen on a podcast. Like, I'm pretty specific. Like, breakdown, like we breakdown mental health and wellness. But this is like how we got weird could really cover anything. So who came up with it? I'm trying to remember. Because we had kind of a few different topics.

I hosted a podcast in New York for like six years, mostly with musicians and comedians as guests. And then Vanessa and I wanted to do a podcast together. And we threw a couple ideas. And I think, yeah, I think we want, we talk a lot about nostalgic ideas and we'll text each other. Like, do you remember this commercial? Do you remember this snap?

Just randomly. Yeah. And so it felt like very natural because it felt like we were doing a lot of this research anyways, for no reason. Knowledge. So I think that's kind of how it came together, but it took a little while to kind of dial it in. Did you always like each other as kids?

I'd like to take my take on this, which is that Jonah sort of, Jonah was sort of, I always really liked Jonah, but Jonah wasn't always super into me. I mean, it was like he would be kind of mean to me, but then if he ever thought it hurt my feelings, he would like apologize.

She was getting you ready for boyfriends. Right. Right. Just me and mean. But yeah, he was like not that. We like didn't, we sort of like, but we got along when we're in high school. But when he went to college, we really started getting along. I feel like because we had, I think we needed a little space maybe or something.

Can I ask the awkward question? What do you remember when she was diagnosed? Because she said she already liked a lot of attention. And I'm wondering if part of you was like, oh, dear. Yeah, I don't know, you know, it was, it was, I feel like it was kind of scary. I think it's one of those things where it was like kind of scary, but I was also, I'm two years older, so I was still like a teenager. I was still in high school.

So I remember, yeah, just being kind of scared. I remember I would go with with Vanessa, my mom or my dad to the hospital sometimes. And yeah, it was just kind of a weird time. but I feel like I had a lot of freedom because my parents were obviously very preoccupied with Vanessa. So I felt like I kind of, you know, was kind of doing my own thing and didn't have like a ton of supervision.

And also I would ask Jonah when he would get home from school who asked about me. Yes. How did we know you weren't going to be an actress? I know. It's like all the signs were there. All the signs. All the signs.

So talk a little bit. about sort of what it's like working together on this podcast. Is it like, what's the collaboration like? Because I know with me and Jonathan, like every third week, we're practically not even speaking to each other when we sit down at our chairs, either because of prep or like, he didn't prep the way I wanted or like, he wants me to ask a thing that I don't want. How have you found it? I found it pretty nice. And this is actually not the first project we've done together. When we were both in New York, we did this web series called Sound Advice. where we would have bands come on

and I would play this media coach who would give them condescending advice and it would often be bands that Jonah was like friends with. And Jonah and we really had a nice time working together. We did it with our friend Pete Schultz and we like, we would write all these things for me to say to the bands

and then Jonah would get so freaked out even though I was the one who had to say to them that he would sometimes have to like leave the room and stuff on your filming. They happened one time I left the room, one time. What kind of stuff? We were, well, this specific time we had Amy Mann and Ted Leo on, they have this band of both. And I said, why are you something like, are you called the both because both of you are eligible for Social Security?

It was like a joke about them being old. And Jonah left the room. It's funny. Sometimes things seem funny writing them at like the kitchen table and then we have to do it in front of people you really respect. and basically insult them. That's the definition of being a performer. Yeah. Yeah.

So I couldn't deal. But they were very, they were great about it. You know, they were very funny and they didn't care. But, but. They were great.

They were great. They were very good sports. Yeah. No one else cared. Yeah. But anyways, so we wanted to work on something and getting together.

And I think we're pretty good at, uh, at like managing the responsibilities equally and sort of, yeah. Yeah. Um, and I'd love to, um, to ask you a little bit about your sort of path.

I mean, you've already done so many interesting, fascinating, and important things, Valerie, especially our producer, is a big fan of your writing. And I'm curious what made you want to kind of go into the mental health field, as it were. Yeah, yeah. So I was in New York for 11 years, and I was mostly, you know. That'll do it.

I was in a band. We would tour and put out records. And I was also writing about music. That was sort of my full-time job. And then I moved out to Western Massachusetts. How close to you to Vermont. I told her you're very close to Vermont. I didn't know how close you are to Vermont.

I'm so close to Vermont. But I came out here and it's kind of joined my now wife. And I was kind of looking for something. thing to do and I'd always really been interested in psychology and I had done a lot of interviews where I sort of got into this with artists more of a journalistic interview and I was interested in seeing how that would be different or the same as a therapeutic interview. So I went back to grad school in 2019 and about a year ago I got my master's in clinical mental health and now I work in community mental health and I want to work with, you know,

musicians and artists on mental health, you know, anxiety, depression, substance abuse, I'm licensed, but I'm kind of my post-masters pre-licensure, getting my hours and learning a lot. And yeah, I think there's a lot of similarities and obviously just a huge need for mental health care for, you know, basically every population. Absolutely. So you went to school over COVID too, yes? It was actually a low residency online program. Oh, cool.

And so we had two residencies, but they both ended up being over Zoom because of COVID. And I actually diagnosed with leukemia in 2009. 19 right before I started. That's right. And so I did kind of chemo my first semester and then I kind of picked it up more full-time. Sorry, can we records crash? Different kind of leukemia, but yeah. Different kind of leukemia.

Very much more rare, but very treatable. What would you, what would you say is kind of the most interesting to you about when you think about kind of working in, let's say, an artistic community or working with artists in terms of mental health because, you know, I always talk about I think everyone can benefit. And I think that if it isn't classical, you know, psychoanalysis, that there is a kind of introspection and, you know, having someone hold space for you in a therapeutic way that I believe everyone needs. I think it's a, you know, a human right to have that. But I also know as an artist, and I think you probably do as well, you know, there's a special profile that often goes with people who, you know, either live for the applause or I'm the kind of performer that lives for other people's approval.

Like, I literally, like, that's my career is making you happy, you know, or satisfied or, you know. So are there specific things that are interesting to you about the mental health of, you know, creatives? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, I think you, you know, and I've listened to you speak on this dog. I've listened to you on Dan Harris's podcast and, you know, have some really interesting conversations about this type of stuff. And yeah, I think it's a really kind of unique lifestyle.

I think it kind of lends itself to, you know, if you're performative, I think that can be a really positive thing, but it can, you know, it can also, you know, open up the door for a lot of other kind of issues, you know, involving ego, evolving communications. I feel like bands can be incredibly dysfunctional.

because no one really teaches each other how to communicate or express things and they can really build up and you have people depending on you and, you know, the lifestyle of touring can be kind of inherently kind of dysfunctional and lead to sort of an arrested development. You know, I feel like I have any of you artists who can't, don't know how to like set up their cable or something because like people just do stuff for them, their whole lives. And I think then you hit 40 or something and it can be really difficult to navigate that stuff. and obviously, you know, depression, anxiety, substance abuse. So I think, you know, it's not, you know, these are things that everyone kind of deals with,

but I do think, you know, sort of the pressures and the lifestyle, especially of touring artists, is kind of a unique kind of lifestyle or setup. And I think someone who kind of comes from that world can maybe understand it a little more. Yeah, possibly. But, you know, I don't know. Does that answer sort of? Yeah, no, I think it's actually, I kind of feel like you're the band whisperer.

And, no, and it's kind of, it's an interesting path. I mean, you both have very interesting ways that you've come about, sort of, you know, the ways that you serve, really, the ways that you entertain and, you know, kind of serve the community. But, yeah, I think it's especially interesting that you kind of came at it, you know, from really an initially, like, journalistic and, you know, intellectual perspective and then kind of had an open enough heart, you know, to see this need. You know, I'm also particularly interested in, you know, kind of like sexual dynamics of mental

health that come, especially in the music world, because everything is so topsy-turvy. And, you know, there's a real glamorization of, you know, in many cases, a treatment of women that's, you know, really can be really problematic. But I also feel like those are relationships, you know, meaning we're all in relation to each other and that stuff gets so magnified. So I think that's really fascinating. Yeah. And I think it's also like a little,

it's interesting for me too. Like I would, you know, at this point in my life, I'm 43, I'd rather talk about, you know, internal family systems or something than like, what are your influences on your new record? I mean, that stuff, there's a place for it, but after doing that for 20 years. My influences for my new record is internal family systems.

Okay. How about that show? Amazing. Amazing. So yeah. So I think he's a place for all stuff, but as I've gotten older, I was always kind of reading this stuff.

And I just find all the modalities and just learning about it just to be, I'm sure you do too, like so kind of interesting and kind of you learn so much about yourself in the process. Absolutely. I mean, you know, people who choose to be of service in the mental health world in particular, you know, that's being a healer. But often, you know, you're healing yourself in the process, you know, of healing. And I actually have friends at Antioch.

And so it's a really, a really phenomenal school. I'm curious about both of your kind of experience with mental health personally. Do you both do transcendental meditation? Is that something you both have partaken in? Yes. And I certainly, I do TM 20 minutes twice a day. For how long have you had that practice? Jonah actually is the person who introduced me to it, which is why I said yes and no,

because I don't know that he does it as regularly now. I don't. I don't do it as regularly. Vanessa has to be doing that since. Because Jonah told me about it. And then when I was shooting trains. Maybe it's helped me a lot. When I was doing train wreck with Amy Schumer, I noticed that she would meditate every lunch break that we had in her trailer.

And I was like, okay, Jonah's doing it. Amy's doing it. I got to do it. Because also she was managing the whole movie while, I mean, Jud was directing it, but she was always, like, checking in with him. And she was always, like, taking care of everything while still being calm. And I thought that seems really hard.

So then I so then I did so that was probably 90. That was probably, it's probably been almost 10 years. Wow. So for people who who may not know, can you explain what T.M. is? Yeah. And Jonah, Jonah, do you do it at all ever? No. Do you have any mental health practice at all?

I do like, I've been like a long time Ash Tonga yoga practitioner. He's so good at yoga. if you do a yoga class with Joan, the teacher's like, oh, I just want to talk to Jonah. And you're like, I'm in this class too. But I do some mindfulness stuff and meditation. But no, I'm not nearly as strict with a TM. But yeah, Vanessa.

Yeah. Yeah, but Vanessa, I think you're, you really are pretty like, you'll be hanging out with Vanessa and she'll be like, okay, I have to do this now for 20 minutes. For people who don't know. Yeah. So every morning and sometime in the afternoon, every afternoon. I do it for 20 minutes. And basically, you get a mantra, which doesn't really mean

anything. It's just to focus you. And it's a word. It's a phrase. It's a paragraph. You're not allowed to say. No, but it's like a, it's a thing that you repeat. Yes. And it's short. It's pretty short. So I would say it's closer to a word. Okay. And by the way, I didn't think that you were trying to get it out of me. I want to be clear. Oh, I was. Okay. So who gives you this word? So whoever trains you. Okay. Like a teacher. Yes.

So my teacher who's one of the, one of the co-founders of the David Lynch Foundation, Bob Roth, who's an amazing, amazing person who also trained Jonah, I think, right? No. He didn't train me, but we kind of worked together. He kind of pre-trained me. Okay. Got it. Got it.

I can't with this guy. But anyways. So he trained me for like three or four, I think it's four days. And basically, he trained me. He's just teaching you. It's basically just getting you to, you know, have 20 minutes where you're conscious, but you're also sort of, you're also sort of restful. And I think the, and you just say the word. And you just say it. And sometimes you forget to say it. And then you remind yourself, the thing that I like about TM and maybe the reason that I've been able to keep doing it is I'm very

non-judgmental of myself with it. So it's like, even if I start just- That's part of the practice. Yes. You don't have to clear your mind, which should, me is the most stressful thing about meditation is clearing your mind because you're like, okay, I get, then you're just stressing out the whole time about like, oh, I had a thought, oh, no, you know. So, so for me, it's just like sometimes I'm able to just like focus on the mantra or whatever. Sometimes I start thinking of other things and then I, if I can remember, I'll stop. Sometimes I kind of, I don't know if this is part of TM. I don't think you're supposed to do this, but sometimes if I'm like trying to figure something out, I'll like wait until

a few minutes into my TM and then I'll be able to think through it with like zero emotion. kind of where I can sort of, so I sort of like take it all. I think it all counts. Sometimes, especially if I do it like in the later afternoon, I'll fall asleep, you know, if I know I have something, I'll set an alarm. But, and in the morning when I do it, I always have to set an alarm in case I fall asleep because I, you're laying down. I'm, I'm, you know, okay, well, look, I really wish that they would sponsor our podcast, but I did a commercial with Casper and I was able to get a Casper bed that I can sit up in. Oh, but it's comfy. It's so. So comfy. Okay, got it. Okay. Okay. So you're, so you're in a restful state. And is there like a

kind of breathing that they teach you to do? No, but you're sort of supposed to, I usually do my mantra with my breathing. I sort of focus on, yeah. And it's just, you're just sort of supposed to, um, focus on the mantra and just be calm and sort of, um, one of the things that my teacher would always say is like he was taught that it's always calm under the waves. So it's like the water is always calm underneath. And that's kind of where you try and get to. But I think the thing that has really helped me is I never like finish a meditation and go like, I really got there during this one. You know, like sometimes I never, I'm always like I just come out of it. And it is supposed to be cumulative. And I have noticed that in stressful situations for the most part, I stay pretty calm.

watch they'll be like a little mouse runs past me when I leave and I'll be like, fuck you. But I won't swear at the mouse. Okay, got it. And can you talk a little bit about your yoga practice and how that's an aspect of your mental health maintenance? Yeah, sure. So I, yeah, I don't know how long.

Probably around 10 years I started doing this practice of Ashtanga yoga called Mysore, where it's sort of like, a self-guided practice, like you learn a sequence and you're basically taught at posture by posture and you kind of add to it. And so there's like a primary series, intermediate series. And so yeah, what I like about it is, you know, it's very meditative. Like you use this kind of Ujai breathing, this kind of deep, deep kind of chest breathing. And, you know, you're doing the same thing every day. So you can, if you walked into a studio, it looked like everyone's doing something kind of different, but everyone could be at like a different point in their own sequence.

And, you know, there's some really great teachers I studied with in New York, you know, you might know like Eddie Stern, who he does a lot of writing about mindfulness and stuff with D. Back Chopra and stuff. But it's, yeah, it's really interesting. And what I liked about it also is you can kind of feel yourself progress. Like you can, you know, one day you're doing something over and over every day and then after three months, all of a sudden, you couldn't, you know, touch your head to the ground where you couldn't do it before. So it feels sort of like, I don't know, it feels very focused and it's, but it's pretty intense. Like, especially some the postures can be very, you know, some postures have taken me years to get into some. I'll

never be able to do. Yeah, but you can do so many of them and it's kind of like, is he bendy? So bendy. And also is like, going backwards and like he's hands. I'm like, what the hell? I'm like, I can barely stand up. Does your wife do yoga too? Yes, my wife does too. Yeah. And yeah, and a lot of the, yeah, like I said, it's just cumul. It's just like, it just takes kind of years, but it's, you know, you can, you can adjust stuff. You can, you know, yeah. I want to ask you both one thing before we wrap up. And we have to tell you about this show we did about Blossom too. Oh, yeah. We can do that also. First, let me ask this question. Then we can do that. You know, you've both just mentioned a practice.

that really takes years. You both kind of have hit on something about a kind of cumulative, you know, wellness. You know, a lot of people listen to this podcast because they're struggling or they feel confused. We like to ask our guests, like, if you could speak directly, you know, to people, specifically to that point of kind of the importance

of stick-to-itness, maybe, about kind of a mental health or wellness practice, What would sort of your suggestion be for people? Ma'am, I think like what you're saying is really, really, really, like a really great observation. And I think, I think it's, I would say it's always like most difficult to get started with something. So I think just, you know, just doing it that first time, it's always going to be the most

difficult and it can seem really daunting. But the more you do it, you do something. And whatever it is, find something that works for you and just, you know, do it for five minutes a day and just know it's going to get easier and you can always do it for longer. But I think it's just that sort of initial getting started is really difficult. So just, you know, practicing compassion around that and just I've tried a lot of different things before I learned. I did a lot of different types of meditation, a lot of different times of yoga, different types

of teachers. So I think it's just, you know, finding that thing that works for you and just, you know, doing it and then just sort of not judging it and, you know, not. having ego around it and just, you know, letting it kind of become part of your routine is what I would say. It's lovely. Vanessa, your turn. Yeah, I would say, I agree with everything Jonah said.

I also think I think the thing that is so nice about whatever practice you find that works for you is that you're resting but you're conscious. I think that's the thing that really gives you, it's the thing that like about sleep is it's so great but you're not conscious for it so you don't get to like absolutely bask in it. You know what I mean? Whereas like if you can find some meditation or yoga or something that allows you to sort of quiet your mind and and just have that time for yourself, that's restful. That's going to absolutely rock. I think that's a really, no, I think that's a really important point because I think a lot of people feel like I have to reach nirvana. Like I better meditate. And if I don't like feel amazing, then I did it wrong or it's not working for me or I can't be fixed. right? And that notion that there's, I think my yoga teacher, you know, he talks about that place of

kind of like, like tension and ease. You know, you want to find that point when you hold a pose. And I think it's true when you interact with humans. You want to find that place where it's like right at the edge of like, this is comfortable and easy, but I'm also working the hardest that I can, you know, to perfect it, to improve on it. So I really, I really, like that notion. Okay. What was this Blossom thing that used it? So we had this thing, it was around the time we were doing our web series.

We had this thing called series finale, but we only did it once. Okay. And we did this show at the Bell House in Brooklyn where we showed, we invited an audience. We had, it was you, me, meaning Jonah, me, Kyle Mooney, and Jenner von Oye played six, right? That was the piano. And Laura Stevenson. Oh, and Laura Stevenson played the theme song. She played a beautiful rendition of the theme song for Blossom.

Uh-huh. And we showed the finale. And then, which again, it was so hard to get. I mean, I was getting half. I'm sorry, you showed it? We showed it to the audience. I think we're like, legally, we weren't really probably shouldn't have shown it. I mean, I don't have rights to it.

Let me tell you this. I'm just trying to picture this. Trying to get it. I went through. It's in. It's actually has not been syndicated. It's insane. I literally, I got like my Facebook, someone said they'd send it to me and I got like hacked

from it because it was like it's impossible. Somehow we found like a kind of blurry version online, but it is crazy. There's no DVDs exist. There's like you can't. So the first two seasons were released by Shout Factory and no others. We were a Disney show and we think that's part of the complexity just for point of reference as to why we sort of fell into this weird space of like every other show from that era. It's crazy. I know. It's a whole thing. But anyway, go ahead. So you showed it. We showed it to an audience.

And then we talked about it with the audience and with Jenna. And we, it was like a thrilling, it was a truly a thrilling evening of just talking about the finale of blossom. And people, I think absolutely loved it. Jenna let me try in her hat that she wore in the opening sequence. Oh, okay. Yes. And she also gave me a Jenna doll. I was just working in my attic last night.

And I have dolls. So I have her, the Joey, and the me, the me doll. The Mama dolls, my kids call it. And they're gem size. That's right. Right? So they are not Barbie size. They're not skipper size. Just like right in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember the thing that I love about that doll, first of all, she has multiple piercings, which at the time was like, oh my God, I have more than one piercing. I'm like, do we put it in a doll? And like, what's next? Tattoos and drugs, you know. Like it was the early 90s. But I remember when I saw that doll, like, they gave her a prominent nose. Like, because I didn't want a Barbie doll nose. Yes. With all due respect to women who have a Barbie doll nose and Barbie herself. Like, I, and I remember I looked at her and I was like, it looks more like me than not.

And I was really proud of that. Can you imagine? That's so crazy that there's a blossom doll that you have. It's weird. It's so cool. It's really, it's been a real pleasure to talk to both. Can we do a rapid fire? It's rapid and you can each give a quick answer to our rapid fire?

Okay. All right. Who goes first, Jonah, you or me. Sadassi, you go first. Okay, okay. Rapid Fire with Vanessa Bayer and Jonah Baer. What was your mother right about? Hmm.

So many things, but the first thing that comes to mind is getting sleep. Okay? Jonah. Saving money. I don't know. You should save money. She's such a great mom, and we did not do her justice just now. I'm so into it.

What was your father right about? I'd like to believe he's right that he's the first Todd. I'm sorry? He thinks he's the first person to ever be named Todd. But also, other stuff, Jonah. Yeah, our dad was right about Esperanto being a universal language of Vanessa and I. As kids thought he made that up. Turns out he was right.

He was right about Esperanto as well. And other things. We're really, we're really kind of making our parents come up. Your parents sound amazing. Location that promotes your best mental health. Oh, I would say being on the beach, completely covered up. So I'm getting no sun, but being on the beach. That's what happens with people with your complexion. How about you, Jill?

Wilderness, trees, forest, I think. Got it. Well, the next question is, do you have a mantra? So you're going to say yes, and it's secret. Yeah. Yes, and it's secret. But do you have an aphorism or a saying that you like that kind of reflects your perspective? You know what I love to remind myself of?

I love reminding myself of the phrase that like you're exactly where you should be. Beautiful. We're always exactly where you should be. Even when it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, anything Eckartal says pretty much, but also, um, also I don't mind what happens.

I think that's a Christian Murdoe quote. That's a really good one. Oh, I like that. I heard that. Um, who's been your best spiritual teacher? I think in a lot of ways our mom. So I guess I'm coming back to around and giving her. In a lot of ways, my mom.

Our mom. Not that you have to also say your mom, but you're kind of do have to say it now. But yeah, I think also, I got a told like me and my wife are super into, you know, Power of Now and New Earth and his teachings. And I've learned a lot about just being in the present moment and kind of accepting my life situation through him.

So he's amazing. Awesome. Do you have a moment of best intuition? I can do mine. I'll do mine first. I have one that came to mind, which I don't know if this is my best moment of best intuition, but I remember when I auditioned for S&L, I auditioned in Chicago, then they flew me to New York, and they said, do your best five minutes.

And apparently a lot of people do a totally different, like they do one thing in their first audition, and then they completely change it and do all new stuff in their second audition. But there's all these new people at your second audition, and there's all the, it's a totally different set up, and they haven't seen you. And they're filming it and it's a totally different. So I did almost the same exact thing and they were like, that's what you were supposed to do. Now, was I doing the thing they told me to do?

Yes. But I think intuitively you felt. I knew not to like change it too much. Wow. That's awesome. I think, you know, I bought this guitar when I was in college and I saved up every week for it. This electric guitar, I was like obsessed with it

and I gave $100 each week and it seemed like so much money back then but I still have it like 20 years later. And it's been all over the world with me. And so I think buying that guitar and saving for it as a college student was great intuition. This is a fun question to ask two people who have worked together a lot and our siblings. Who are you most competitive with? Not Jonah.

I don't think, no, no, no, not Jonah. I mean, I'm competitive with Jonah. I was going to say something that's a joke that is actually kind of real. is like, I'm still competitive with, like, I'm still, like, mad about certain roles that I was cast in in middle school theater. And I'm like, I'm still sort of feel competitive with, like, those, like, direct, you know, those people

where I'm like, you guys should, is this? Yeah. Rum Tam Tugger. Taywan Kim was cast instead of me fifth grade. Oh, my God. Go ahead, Jonah. Well, don't even know who that is. I know who you are.

I feel like, you know, I, you know, I feel like I can just be competitive. Can you be competitive with yourself? I don't know. It's the most common answer. That was going to be my answer. It's the most common answer. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. It feels like kind of a cop out a little bit. But I do feel like we can really, yeah, be competitive with ourselves. I'm most competitive with Jonathan, who's not here today. So I'm winning today. Last question. What do you know to be true? I really do think we're all exactly where we should be. Yeah. I think everything, everything passes, whether it's good or bad, it's not going to last forever. So, you know, you're going to going to get through it somehow either way. Beautiful.

Please check out how did we get weird with Vanessa Bayer and Jonah Bayer, wherever you listen to podcast. Is that how you do it? That's what I'd say. Anything else we can direct people to, to learn more about you? I guess just listening to the podcast, which we're hoping to have mine on very soon.

Okay. We're on social media a little bit, and I have a website, jonabayer.com. I don't really update that much, but you can check it out. Great. great. That's a great. That's a great plug. Maybe I'll update it now. And if you have not seen, I love that for you.

You also won a Gracie Award for that. I did. Yes. Thank you so very much. All right. Well, thank you from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. Ooh, what a good sign-off. It's my and Beallix breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience Ph.D. or two. One, fiction. And now she's going to break down. It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down.