Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Whitney Cummings: Genetics Loads the Gun, Environment Pulls the Trigger

Episode Date: November 21, 2023

Whitney Cummings (comedian, actor, writer, producer, director) - and her unborn child! - stop by the studio to break down practical ways to reparent your inner child, how weed and microdosing mushrooms brought her to a manic episode, her addictions to love and fantasy, and channeling trauma into an asset. She opens up about her fears that she’s not worth listening to and her propensities for workaholism, perfectionism, codependency, and people-pleasing. Whitney reflects on competing with the substances her parents were addicted to, the nuances of birth order, the characteristics of parentified children, and the origins of her disordered eating. She shares her thoughts on self-sabotage, healthy anxiety as a gift of intuition, signs she knows she needs to be doing more self-care, how to schedule time to worry, the science behind manifesting, wolf therapy, and crying as a tool. Whitney delves into all things parenting, from the egg-freezing process and her journey through pregnancy to what scares her most about parenting, why it’s so difficult to watch parenting styles you don’t agree with, and her in-utero programming. She also discusses the origins of her humor, the responsible and reckless uses of comedy, plus we learn more about her new special, Mouthy! Whitney Cummings' latest stand-up special, Mouthy: https://of.tv/creators/whitney-cummings-presents/ BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You know, when you do amends in ACA, the first person you make amends to is yourself. And then my sponsor said, everyone you think, oh, you in amends is who you'll end up making an amends to. And then amends to the inner child. And there's this exercise where in your right hand, you write questions for your inner child. And then in your left hand, you respond. You write a question to your inner child, five questions. And for me, I think it was like, what do you want to eat for dinner? Because I was struggling with the eating stuff.

And the big thing was just feed yourself the way you would feed a child. The cheat for ACAs is often live as if you were caring for a child. Wow. So you would never tell a child, you're re-parenting. You would never tell a child you're not going to eat lunch. You would never tell a child, you're not going to brush your teeth this morning. Well, I'm sure it happens. But you would never tell a child, you have to hang out with someone that makes you uncomfortable.

You have to talk to this person that makes you uncomfortable. You're going to skip, have Diet Coke for dinner. You would never do that to a child, so why would you do that to yourself? So it's that little sneak. And then on my home screen of my phone was a photo of me at like five. And so I was always kind of just trying to. So then your left hand, which is your non-dominant hand, so your brain is going to have to do a whole dance.

So I would ask questions that so specifically they were about, the first couple were about food. What do you want to eat for dinner? What's your favorite food? And then who do you want to hang out with this weekend? Like who's your best friends? Stuff that was like questions you would more ask a child. And then you respond in your non-dominant hand.

And the writing looks like a kid's writing. And I instantly just started sobbing. Wow. And I learned about the tool of scheduling when to worry about something. Instead of just going, I need to worry about, da-da-da-da. You go like, you know what? December 1st, I'm going to start worrying about this thing. And I will make a decision by December 50.

Right. Or my favorite is you can worry about that for 20 minutes today. And then you do not worry about it again today. And maybe there's a lot of voices in my head that aren't mine, positive and negative. So I can just go like, I'm not stupid. I'm not ugly. I'm not this. I'm not like, those are just like voices that I heard. It's like a shitty radio station in the back.

It's Myambialic's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. Because you know she knows a thing or two. So now she's going to break down. It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down. Hi, I'm Myambiallic. I'm Jonathan Cohen.

And welcome to our breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to. The person that we are having on. on today. I couldn't break all the things down, even if I tried forever. This is a long one, but there's so much good stuff here. Every time we think it's ramping down, there's just like more revelations. Mime, you talk about something that you have never spoken about in all the episodes that we have done so far. I was really, I learned something new about you today. We talked to Whitney Cummings. She's a comedian, actor, writer, producer. She's all the

things, an entrepreneur. She's a host of the hit podcast, Good for You. Not only did she create and star in the NBC series Whitney, as that is her name. She's the co-creator and co-writer of two broke girls, which you may have enjoyed, the Emmy-nominated CBS comedy series that went for a million years. She's got a ton of stand-up specials. Her most recent stand-up special just launched last week. It's available on oftv.com. It's totally free, which is super awesome. So check that. out. It's hilarious. She is hilarious, but more importantly, she is very deep. She has done a lot of work on herself. She is open to talking about everything from eating disorders, codependency, growing up in alcoholism, sex abuse, like what she sought in relationships, what she got right,

what she got wrong, why and how she decided to get pregnant. She talks about everything. We also get universal manifestation, ancestral curses, scheduling worrying so that you're not worrying now, but you can worry later because it's easier that way. She's going to tell us all about it. It's really, really our joy to welcome Whitney Cummings to The Breakdown. Break it down. Whitney Cummings, welcome to the breakdown.

Thanks for having me. We're very excited to have you here. I'm very intimidated to be here. Why? I just feel like you'll tell me if this is true. When you say an emotion, you automatically dissipated a little bit. So I like to just say it. I dissipated or one dissipation?

When you say, I'm scared. Oh, got it. When you say, I'm intimidated. Oh, I thought you'd have some cool answer like, well, you and Jonathan have such a blah, blah, blah. No, you just mean generally speaking. I'm intimidated by you. Jonathan, not as much at the moment. But we'll work on that.

You're intimidated by his beard. But, yes, that beard is, there's fake. It's fake. So I'm not intimidated by something that glues on a Santa Claus beard that he got from Oz on sunset. What? Okay. So look, I don't buy that for a second. You made the Canadian blush.

Look at him. I have to come in person so that she can hug on it. Yeah. Is that a string on the side or those Apple headphones? It looks like the little plastic string. But it's a power move to the way that he's putting the lab. It's like if a woman were to put their boobs. In the foreground, I mean, it really is.

You're not shying away from it. I do feel like the beard is the boobs for men at this point. You're not at that it is. Yeah. You know what you're doing. Oh, my God. My head hurts. I appreciate it.

I have that effect on people. Well, we are pleasantly intimidated by you, meaning you have a really incredible podcast. Thank you. And I'd like for you to talk a little bit about it. It's called Good for You, which is a, I love a name that has two meanings. Yeah, me too. Because it's like, it's good for you and also like, good for you. It's a workshop test.

Right. Whatever someone thinks it is says more about them. And also good for you could also be like legitimately like, good for you. But also a lot of times it's like, good for you. It's also like good for you. Yeah. Like I hope this podcast is like good for you. Okay.

So you started it in 2019. Right before the pandemic, like two months probably. Wow. Yeah. How was that? Yeah. It was, you know, it's interesting. You've, I'm a fan of your podcast.

Thank you. We started after. Oh, interesting. Just. Interesting. No, I was more self-destructive. I did it when I had other career options. It wasn't like, it wasn't made like a smart time like during the pandemic.

But, you know, it's interesting. Like, as someone that kind of talks for a living, it consumes me with shame a lot because I have like, my biggest fear as being boring or like bombing. And sometimes I feel like I'm just like, am I just like bombing for two hours? Like stand-ups, like we spent two years writing this, you know, machine gun, like laugh every 20 seconds thing. We got on stage. And then once a year, you see the thing that we worked on for two years. And this whole thing where it's like, I'm going to roll out of bed and just kind of like,

I had to really work on the fact that like I'm enough. Like this is enough. Like me just not being on and having all these perfect jokes. Like, this might just be enough. I might be inherently interesting and worth listening to. And if you're not into it, fine. I mean, it is weird that, you know, I mean, I really enjoy a podcast. but like women talking for two hours, like it's shocking to me that that's a business.

It is shocking. Well, I'm glad because it's most of our identity. Yeah. So we might as well be able to turn it into something. Yeah. So it's, you know, I think for me it's like I always feel like I get a little shame when I overshare. But if I'm doing it as of service on a podcast, I feel like it's okay. You said that kind of you're, you know, like a big fear.

I want to give you a coaster. Hold on. Oh, thank you. I mean, it's all I've been thinking about. Our table is like not in great shape, mostly because of me. But I figured. The poster is just his beard. Unbelievable.

Unreal. There's actually four different coasters. I'm calling HR. Okay. This is a lot. It was her doing. It was all her. It was my doing.

Anyway, you said something about one of your biggest fears or, you know, I mean, sometimes we call them organizing principles, right? Is that like, I'm whatever. I'm boring. I'm unlovable, whatever it is, but you mentioned, like, being boring. Like, do you remember that from when you were young? Like, is it part of why you started being funny? Absolutely. I remember growing up an alcoholic home, which for people listening, I think a lot of people think, I don't have to tell you this, but think like, oh, wine, alcohol, in order for alcoholism to be present, alcohol doesn't

always have to be present, you know, so there can be addiction to tidying up, to cooking, to perfection, to cheating, to gambling, to all kinds of things. Right. And I was also, we just, went from tidying up to gambling, which is a form of... So some have programs and some don't have programs, but... Oh, I've been to Workaholics Anonymous at meetings. Crafting is a big one. Right. Cleaning.

And a lot of times, this is fascinating to me. A couple of the addictions boiled down to a gambling addiction, like social media. Correct. It's basically a slot machine at this point. You're just playing to try to get that hit. Well, it's the God-shaped hole, but yes. So anyway, growing up in alcoholism, which is a... It can be an umbrella term.

Right. But typically, yes, it's a... I couldn't compete with the substances my parents were addicted to. Great. So I always had a very short amount of time to get their attention, to try to entertain them. And someone's drunk, it's very hard to, like, get them to pick you, you know? So I was always competing with alcohol, with, you know, my dad's other, you know, mistresses, whatever it was. But I also remember a moment specifically, and I had this recently, and I did an EMDR session on something. And it came up where I remember going out to try to get my dad's attention.

I was like, whatever, maybe five, six. And I went out and was like, hey, Dad, something, something. And he was watching TV. And I remember walking away and going, that didn't go well. And I remember being like, okay, next time you're going to walk out like this. And then you're going to do this. And you're going to do an impression of Rodney Dangerfield because he's watching Ronnie Dangerfield.

And I just remember thinking, like, he would watch SNL and he would laugh. And I remember just going like, I got to get in the box. Like, I got to get in that box. That's what I have to do. So I got obsessed with, like, getting on television and being entertaining or perfect. The other way that I would get attention is to be perfect and sometimes being sick or hurt. So when I was a kid, sometimes I would like fake being sick or fake an injury or, you know, shit like that. But thankfully, the ones that stuck were more, because then I realized that wasn't

working. Now I need to pretend I'm never hurt. You know, I have to totally self-deprive and totally be needless, wantless, you know, but like being perfect and then being entertaining. Talk to me a little bit about sort of competing with the TV. I think that's a really interesting thing. You know, I think, I mean, I'm just like sort of like, rewinding the tape of like, what did it look like, you know, in my home. And I'm thinking, you know, a lot of people might be doing the same. You know, there's a lot of things we compete with, especially when our parents have other issues, right? Other things. What do you think, what was TV for your dad in terms of,

like, what did you see happening? That's fascinating. It's interesting. It's interesting. It's interesting because I think it was his comic relief. Like he, things were always really rough, really hectic, but what we did have was comic relief always. A lot of it was probably like, you would look back and say emotional abuse. Like, our family would roast each other really hard. Like, holidays were always like really, like you would feel it as a child too. You would feel like, kids know when something's passive aggressive. They don't know what it is, but they know when someone's like, can you pass the salt the way you pass around all your wives? Like you're like, I know that wasn't nice. Like, I know those two adults with doing those jabs with all that, like, tension

underneath. Like, I know, like, am I supposed to be laughing? And the adults are laughing way too hard. But I think for him, it was, you know, he was a very, you know, plagued with addiction, but comedy was kind of his anesthesia. Like, he would watch SNL, Landshark. Like, he would pick me up from school and, you know, when he did or when he did show up, you know, I think it was a tool that he used maybe to make people forget about the bad things that he did. I think comedy. can be used responsibly and irresponsibly, but when someone has that kind of charm, he also looked exactly like Dan Aykroyd,

which is just a weird coincidence. I'm picturing it. People thought he was Dan Aykroyd, and he would, like, do cone heads. Like, he would do it at restaurants and he would sign autographs. So I thought my dad was Dan Aykroyd taught us, like, 13, which is a whole other random thing.

But he would do, like, Blues Brothers impressions. When he would pick me up from school, he would do the, I don't know if you've seen three amigos, but when, you know, Steve Martin's like, look up here, look. He would like hide behind car, you know, and I would forget about the fact that he was three hours late. You know, so it was sort of this comedy was sort of used to like iron out the trauma in a way and make us forget it. And that's a tool that I absorb too.

Like when things are rough or sad, I tend to make jokes for better or worse. Maybe it gave me sort of an emotional dyslexia or whatever. But I think it was just all of our family's way of just brushing off really serious stuff. So I guess he was, you know, he wasn't really a drinker. My mom would drink, but he was watching TV. and maybe that was his, maybe that was his drug. Comedy. Miami-Bialx breakdown is supported by Superpower.

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Make sure to mention my and Biala's breakdown to help support the show. You have a half brother? Yes, sir. Ma'am. Sorry, I say sir. I just always say yes, sir. Can I tell you? I was talking about this the other day.

When I say yes, ma'am, women go, like, oh, so I'm old. So I just started saying yes, sir, to everyone. Sorry. I mean, I triggered. I mean, I'm losing my vision and my hearing, so I think I'm a ma'am. Question. So you had a half, a half older brother. So are you the middle?

It was youngest and an accident. Oh, 13 months. Birth order is a game changer. Well, so tell me about birth order because I'm in homes like this. I'm always very curious. where does everyone fall in? Because there's, you know, we all have different personalities we take on. And, you know, my brother was very like head in a comic book.

Like, I don't see anything. Like, you know. So you were the baby. Yep. I was the baby. But just. And when you do the math, I'm 13 months younger. So I was clearly, you know, they called me the surprise.

But I was obviously. I mean, that's practically Irish twins. Uh-huh. Yeah. An accident. And I think with that, a lot of, I think, overachievers that I know are the youngest because they had to fight really hard to fit into an already established system. You have to, you know, and oftentimes you are a surprise or an accident.

Yeah. And I, I don't know. I just, I think I knew. Or you're also a hope. You're a failed hope. Oh, yeah, like this will save our marriage and I didn't. So it was like, you were supposed to save our marriage and you didn't. You a little monster.

No pressure. Yeah. Totally. He's the youngest of three. Okay. You get it. You know, so it's like you're coming into something. And then also by the time I don't have to, you know, this was definitely not your

experience. I'm a big fan of reading all. your parenting stuff and all your parenting videos and stuff. But it's like by the time you get to the third kid, it's like, she's fine. Like there are no photos of that child. Like my hair is crazy. Have you ever looked at your school photos? Like I have food on my face. Like I have like, shit like sticks in my hair. Like I'm like you guys, you know, it's very clear from a very early age that I was not planned and then I was maybe a burden. You know, I came into, you know, a family. There's a lot of borderline personality disorder and histrionic shit. So me having needs was

very exhausting and overwhelming to my mom, and I felt it right away. I felt she would cry a lot. She was always overwhelmed. The permission slip was never sigh. I was always the kid at school that didn't have the permission slip. I didn't have the check for the field trip. My lunch bag was always wet. Like I always just was like this mess.

And, you know, so I think that you kind of know that as a kid. I don't know if you knew if you were planned or what, but I remember being like, you got to earn your place here. Like you can't cause any trouble. You can't need too much. Like I caught on fire when I was a kid because I was like, I need to cook dinner for myself, you know, and I, like, got on the stove and started cooking for myself on a like, you know, so I was also left alone a lot. My mom worked, and I'm so grateful that I got to

see a mom work really hard. But she was overwhelmed and she was exhausted. And that generation of women were trying to do both. And I always felt like I was stressing everybody out. And then I was a burden and I was a hassle. Was your brother, he, he, how much older was he? He's older half. So, like, was he your mom's previous, your dad's previous? Okay. So then how much much older than you. He's 12 years older. Oh, yeah. He's much older. There's something that I notice about the way you speak, which reminds me of me in the warmest way. But I wonder, Jonathan, if you've noticed it, you know a lot of things about the diagnoses in your home. You know a lot about your stuff. You've got like the ability to name what's going on for you. And I wonder,

you know, I'm often, I'm not accusing you of this, but I'm often accused of like, pathologizing and like you're making too much of it and like you don't know. What is your sort of take on when this sort of self-awareness kicked in? Was it out of necessity? Meaning did it look you in the face? And you were like, oh, no, I have to look at this. How did you get to know all the things about yourself that you know? That's a great question because I'm really glad I have the opportunity to answer it because I feel like sometimes I sound like, such an no at all, like obnoxious no at all. And I'm sure tomorrow a bunch of things will happen. And I'm like, I was totally wrong yesterday about all of that. And, you know, and so for me, one of my biggest character defects in my program, which is ACA, adult children, alcoholic, mostly like I've played around in the ACA or sorry, the CODA rooms as well, codependence

anonymous rooms, some other stuff. And ACA is kind of an offshoot of Al-Anon. Yes. Meaning Al-Anon, you'll often meet people who have spouses, often children, But if you want to go to meetings where specifically it's people who their primary qualifier as a parent, that's what ACA adult children of alcoholics meetings are for. You basically were raised in a chaotic environment. You only know how to care for yourself the way your parents cared for you. You essentially sort of developed all these coping mechanisms to cope with the chaotic environment that worked really well when you were a kid. And then you grow up and all of a sudden they're not working so well.

So it's like you're a parentified child. You were the kid that had to kind of take care of everything. You had to take care of yourself too much. you know, we develop these characteristics that we call like the 3Ms, mothering, micromanaging, and martyring. Like, we think we have to parent other adults. I have a PhD in that. I know, obsessed with you. I mean, in the 3Ms. Yeah, yeah. And so, so for me, one of my issues was I would actually chronically minimize instead of pathologize at all, you know, it was just sort of everything's fine. This is how everybody is.

Or like, I can take it, I can handle it. Like, I'm the strong one. Everyone else is allowed to be a mess. that I can just sort of hold it in. You know, we call ourselves the exploding door mats, you know, kind of thing. Sort of it's like I have all this anger and also a complete lack of self-care and total self-deprivation. Like I didn't floss before I, you know, came to this program. I was so busy taking care of everybody else and martyering myself on other people, you know, you sort of your self-esteem is derived from how useful you are to other people. You're attracted to sort of people that you can rescue or fix.

You know, it's like if you're, you know, in AA or NA, you're addicted to someone, you know, you're addicted to a substance. But if you're in ACA, you're addicted to someone who's addicted to a substance, you know? So it's like, I need to get this person sober. And I'm like learning Spanish to learn how to fight with drug dealers, you know, it's just total chaos. And this is, I love you and I just love the work that you've done. And I'm like, I'm a giant fan. Definitely dressed as blossom, like four years in a row as a kid. But now that if you have this, like, you're like a doctorate and nerd.

But also like our addiction is the internal drug cabinet adrenaline cortisol. So it's like you know, we're the people that are just like, why is everyone so dramatic? It's like, well, why did I? I subconsciously gravitate towards really dramatic situations to get that hit of adrenaline because that's my neurochemical comfort zone from when I was a kid or it was like in utero. I became addicted to it. You know, the way a crack baby is addicted to crack when they're born. And so I had a couple family members like going to rehab, you know, kind of thing. And then I'm going to the rehab, you know, paying for it, bringing NutraGrain bars, bringing sweaters, you know, and they're like, you also, I'm leaving my work, abandoning myself, my personal life to try to help this person gets over. So that was when it was pointed out to you. There's a program for you, too. You didn't get out unscathed. And I'm like, what do you mean? But I'm perfect.

Like, all I do is love people and help people. And I drive people to the airport. I hardly know. And I'll, like, help someone move even after they've cheated on it. Like, I'm the best. And then I was like, oh, Alononon. I'm going to go to Alononon. that's going to teach me how to get them sober, I'm in. So I thought I was going to

Alan to learn how to better control the alcohol. Yeah, which just like, disclaimer, Alonon is actually not the place you go to get people sober. It's the place to put the focus on yourself. But many of us go and we're like, if they just stop using drinking being, I'll be fine. Totally. So it's like we meddle and other, they're like, they're basically like, you're going to, you're hurting this person. You're enabling this person. Like, you actually need to give them a consequence in the dignity of their own experience and remove yourself because this person might be addicted to substances, but you're addicted to all the adrenaline and people pleasing and all your insecure bullshit, too. Like, you guys came from the same home. Like, there's a program

for you, too. And I remember going into Al-Anon for the, I mean, the first couple meetings, I was just like, I'm too busy for this. I don't belong here. Like, everyone's, like, got their, you know, salad. You know, everyone's got their water flask and, you know, everyone's so in there. Also, they're in a very good mood in Alon. And I was like, I don't feel good. Why are you all? all hugging each other. I don't buy it. Like, I just didn't buy it. And then I had some, you know, religious stuff.

I'm now totally, like, got it out. But at the time... You mean you didn't like this higher power notion, which is the structure of the 12-step programs? Well, they were just, like, my God. And I was like, I was so emotionally immature at the time. And I didn't realize that because when you're a preentified child, everyone's telling you, you're such an old soul.

You're so mature for your age. You're so, you know. And so I really thought I had it together. and I found myself also going into the rooms a big thing with, you know, Alan's and ACAs were very judgy, you know, it was I went in being like, this person in their sneakers and this person in their hoodie and we don't think of it as being judgy. We are discriminating and simply know better.

I'm helping you. That's right. If you could if you could just broadcast my inner monologue, all of your lives would be fixed, you know? So it's just kind of, I went in and I found myself focusing on other people instead of myself and why I needed to be there. And then the selfishness of someone would share it. I'd be like, well, that's not my experience. We call that looking for the differences, not the similarities. Yeah, I don't need to be here because, like, I'm not from Pensacola. So it's obviously like, I don't need

to be here, you guys. And then I, my favorite tool is comparing my insides to other people's outsides, which I literally did for approximately 16 years. 16 years, I think. That's literally like, however horrible I feel and how I'm thinking because her teeth are nice. And I'm talking about your teeth. That person is in a better place in life. And I will never be like that's the compare and despair. I mean, I can go deep. Anyway, back to you.

I was called Horse Face Cummings. I mean, still I am. You need to look at my Reddit chat. I would do anything for your teeth. I don't even know what Reddit is. Okay. That's probably taken it that way. That's what I was going to say.

You can't find Reddit. And so I found myself... So you were an adult when you found... Had you been to therapy? I was not emotionally. I was an adult child. No, but I'm saying, had you been to therapy? Like, what was high school like with this set of tools?

Just before we go into high school, how's your Spanish now? No, Bueno, dude. I can say, like, does the cocaine have fentanyl in it? Like, that's pretty much... And is there an... ATM close by. And, but he's a musician. He can't die.

He's going to make it. He just signed with Gersh. Like, I don't, like, it's not, the phrases I can say really say a lot about. We had a really shitty morning, and this is really helping me in Valerie. So we, no, we appreciate it. What was high school like with this set of, because, I mean, I know what I was like. What were you like in high school? Were you funny, pretty, and like getting by with a lot of.

charm in that's fascinating um no it is it's it um i was a full adult in high school in my head and i recently had a friend of mine got um that i went to high school with is really successful actress and she came on my podcast and we had this great podcast that was like i was jealous of you i was this great and i was a full adult i was working i also had a really severe eating disorder so i had isolated myself entirely i would eat in my car i was um very overachieving i was staying after school had to get the, you know, perfect grades. I also grew up with that money. I knew I was going to have to pay for myself. You know, I had a very early age, like, started working and started being like, I have to leave school early because I have to earn money, you know, because there was so much

money stress around my house, even though it's ostensibly, it seemed like, because we had nice things. There was a lot, there was shopping addiction, which is this weird, like, you don't think until later, you're like, oh, my mom had an eating disorder and a shopping addiction. That's such a crazy thing. I'm not diagnosing your mother, but borderline personality disorder, you'll often see co-addiction or shopping addiction in addition to a lot of the behavioral stuff. So you mentioned BPD, so I just figured I'd mention that. Shopping addiction,

it's a real thing. It's an adrenaline thing. I probably have it. Yeah. Thank God it's Etsy, though. It's all the weird, haunted dolls. Yeah, you were talking about hoarding on a podcast recently. I found really, really fascinating. You know the difference between collecting and hoarding is if you can throw it away. I just throw it away in, like, the junk room. Right.

That's not throwing it away. Yeah. I'm just putting it on eBay, to get money for it to buy more things. Does that count? I'm like, my brain wants to find a way. But yeah, and I remember, you know, my mom's, when you have a shopping addiction and you don't have money,

things are so valuable. And you're a kid and you're just like, you know, and she would cry and scream over things. You know, I remember learning things are really valuable. I was also taught by your appearance is the most important thing.

You know, she grew, it was a lot. She, you know, never had food in the fridge. And she always said to other people when they said, you look great. She'd be like, I just have to lose that five pounds. Like, it's just something

that she would, say all the time, and I'm sure that she didn't have the tools yet to know that your kid is just listening to that. I guess it was also eating disorders to my understanding boiled down to a control addiction and a way to isolate. You know, so for me, it was just about being able to kind of hide. So I wasn't very social. I was pretty scared of people, but I probably masqueraded as incredibly confident, which is a lot

of times my thing is that I'm terrified, but like people are like, she's such a bitch who doesn't want to be here. And I'm like, I don't deserve to be here, but I just look like I, you know. So. Were you funny? You hadn't found your funny. No. No, I don't, I still don't know how I got, like I, people just started laughing when I was being dead serious. Like I would just my point of view on whatever the thing was, people would start laughing.

And I'd be like, why are you laughing? Like, I'm dead, like, I'm dead serious. Even as a kid, I'd be making my case for something I wanted. And my, everyone would laugh. And I'm like, I'm serious. Like, you know, so I still am kind of, like, I know how to write jokes, obviously. I know how to do what I do, but I think it's just... When did your eating disorder start? I'm curious how, you know, how young you found something because, you know, we look for something to kind of be the thing that we can control or a place to hide. And a lot of times, you know, my experience with... I mean, we have a lot of similar, you know, rooms that we sit in.

You know, my experience is like there's a tremendous amount of mental energy that you have to use up when you... are going to binge or when you're going to, you know, like it literally, it's like a, it is a, it really is. It's like a constant dialogue. Like, yeah. So how young did that become part of your life? My first addiction, if I'm going to be honest, I think was fantasy. So when I went into the SLAA rooms, people talking about fantasy and intrigue.

That's sex and love addicts anonymous. And I was like, that, that's it. The sex with strangers thing, don't get it. I'm just too shy and like germophobic or something. something, you know, like no judgment on it. It just wasn't my thing. Love, absolutely, you know, did those steps later. But fantasy. I would check out. It's just so embarrassing. I would like, I would also fully like think I was on Oprah. I would be on Oprah in my head. I would be doing all the stuff I knew I would have to do in the TV to get my dad's attention. I was doing interviews

with myself. I was writing in journals as other people. I was fantasizing that I had different parents. Like I would try to be like Anne of Green Gables and I'm, you know, whatever, which that story doesn't hold up. But that's another thing. It's like a brother and a sister that adopts a kid. It's just like, I don't know. Don't be judging. Whatever. I just, I'm not about banning books.

I just, that one, I feel like we should just take another gander out. And so, and I would like check out into fantasy. I would pretend. I was in commercials. Like when I would eat. So embarrassing. I would like roll up. I mean, because you were literally on TV, you know, I definitely would, like, dance on a piano if I saw one and pretend I was you.

So is that what's the difference between imagination and fantasy? Like, what is it for you? Ooh, that's, I think imagination is like creativity of making something original, knowing it's you, whereas fantasy is I don't want to be in this body. I'm someone else. I would pretend I was in commercials. Like, when I would eat, I would, like, roll up my food and, like, take a bite to a fake camera. That's not creative. That's bonkers. Yeah, well, so I. Okay, so now, I mean, I remember doing that at many family dinners. And I would, you know, I think dinners were probably, I mean, sometimes I remember, you know, good conversation, but there's attention.

And I'm thinking, like, there obviously wasn't a lot going on if I had an entire commercial that I was recording in my head while I'm eating dinner. Like, that's a lot. Like, I remember it a lot. And I'm thinking, that must have been a lot of dead space that, probably just felt so unbearable to be in that I made my own, I made my own thing. You've never mentioned that in all of our talking. And I think it's a fascinating line between imagination, fantasy, and where fantasy goes into disassociation and escape. And I think you just hit

the nail in the head. And I think the difference is probably more the end result of whereas creativity yields some kind of benefit in the long run, whereas fantasy is you're just stopping your life to disassociate and check out. Creativity is maybe to check in and fantasies maybe to check out. There's something in that because the way you're talking about it, Whitney, is like a bit of a negative connotation like fantasy is to check out. But there has to be a certain level of creativity in that fantasy that both of you two are describing. You know, there's, oh, like I'm a mad, like I think there's creativity in any of it, but both of you channeled that fantasy into careers, which, you know, comes with a level of practical application

that I think differentiates it between total disassociation. I know, and I don't know if I'm going to get in trouble for this, like I'm, you know, but I kind of call it trauma privilege. Like, once you've sort of done the, okay, let me heal the invisible wounds, let me work on it. Oh, I actually have a couple of these like superpowers

and advantages that a lot of my friends that were loved and like read to or whatever or had some kind of stability and predictability and didn't have to use fantasy to check out before they had some kind of drug. They don't have that. you know, and so I can kind of now be in that radical forgiveness and radical gratitude of like, oh, okay, like, you know, adversity yielded some pretty cool things. So, so yeah, that is, that is one of

them. Okay, so going, moving forward on the addiction train. Yeah. On the eating disorder train. So that, so that was, like you said, like if you had to say like, you're first, you know, and, and also, like, I don't want people to be like, children don't have addictions. Yes, they do. And also, like, those are, you know, if you don't want to call it that, it's the things that we do to cope, with discomfort and every child has discomfort at some level. And depending on the resources you're given, depending on the genetics you're given, depending on what is modeled for you, you can sometimes recruit resources to cope with things that are complicated. But in the kind of situation that you're talking about and that I think a lot of people grew up in, even if they're not ready to sort of

go there and be in full admission of it, there's a lot of things we will do to try and fill it in. You've talked about this, not to interrupt. I think it was in your conversation with Natasha Lagerro where when a kid is, or no, it was the psychiatrist that the Instagram, she's really big on Instagram and her name's escaping me. Dr. Jenny? Apologies, I think so, blonde.

Dr. Becky. Yes, about how. Parenting. When a kid is, yes, a kid's like having a tantrum and upset instead of going, you're fine, you're fine. Because the parent doesn't want to tolerate the discomfort or you don't want your kid to be in pain. I had so much that.

You're fine. Get up. You're fine. And I don't. I just was like, you always have to be fine, but I didn't feel fine inside. So I defined other little sneaky things. Definitely before food restriction was binging. And I was also, you know, people talk about abuse. And I, of course, that was there. And I, and I don't mean to over pathologize. I just have to acknowledge it because then I'm just a liar. But there was a lot of neglect, too. I was also just alone a lot, you know? And so the cereal boxes, like, it was before Instagram, whatever, the crosswords on the back of the fruit loops. Like, I would eat the whole thing

of fruit loops. Like I would, you know, the whole box of fruit my dad would buy in bulk and I would just eat the whole thing at Cheerios and then kind of incapacitate myself and that gave me an excuse to just be in bed and like that's why I'm not going out to play. That's why I'm not, these kids don't like me. I don't, I can get ahead of it. I'm incapacitated. So if they don't ask me to play, I didn't want to do it anyway or I can't anyway. You know, so it gave me sort of an excuse to not socialize with other kids and gave me an out when they didn't ask me. Like I wasn't invited that sleepover, but like I couldn't anyway because of this kind of thing. And so that was, I think, binging was definitely first.

There was also a lot in, because I was sent to live somewhere else for a while when I was like 10 or 11, lived with an aunt. Yes, exactly. And there was a lot of finish everything on your plate and you're not leaving until you finish that entire glass of milk. And I know a lot of people are saying like, but that's a good rule. But for some children, depending on your template, that kind of messaging is very, very intrusive. and problematic.

And you don't know what kid you're looking at when you tell them to finish what's on their plate. Some kids might be like, all right, and never think about it again. And you don't know what I just snuck an hour earlier. That's right. Because I just ate a whole box of fruit loops that you don't know about.

So I think most of our, you know, probably parents did that of you're finishing everything on your plate. We didn't have money, so I got it. But just I also, I didn't make the plate. If I'm going to finish everything on it, can I pick what goes on it at least? So it was a lot of people sort of,

It was, I think, force feeding, which people thought was love or thought was, like, smart discipline. But, like, imagine drinking a glass of whole milk. Like, it's just crazy. Also, it expands in your belly. It's, like, so gross. I'm allergic, so, yeah. So I just am like, you know, so there was a little bit of that, if I'm going to be honest. So I'm sure there's, you know, you or someone smarter than me can understand the impact that that had.

So I think then it went into restriction. Well, of course. Well, you got to balance it out. Restriction. Were you an exercise person? I would binge and once I was 20, once I was maybe 16, 17, yes, I would binge and then go on. Exercise bulimia, is that what they call it? Like three hour walks. And then by the time I got to L.A., I was just like at crunch fitness just all day.

Can we go back to the fact that you were sent away to live with your aunt at 12 for a second? That we just skipped over. Might have been good, but very disruptive. There's a lot I just won't know. And there's a lot my parents have passed. And so, you know, I think it's important, like, you know, this therapist I work with is like, you just need to get information. Like, you just need to get answers of what exactly happened. It could have been someone lost custody of you or they both lost custody of you or they separated you for this reason. You don't remember. Well, we did like run away from home at like 10, 11, you know, and it was pretty rough and dangerous situations and stuff. So I went to go live on a farm in Roanoke, Virginia, which, you know, sorry to be like the silver lining third step, annoying person.

But I was like in a weird way, grateful because I got to be, live with animals. There's horses and dogs and, you know, but I was sent to live with people that weren't parents. They had never been parents before. So it sort of accelerated my parentified child thing. I also went into a Catholic, very strict Catholic school right away halfway through the school, very small sort of town, but got very serious about sports sort of there. But was always like, if I'm just good enough, my dad's going to come back and get me. And it just didn't happen.

I'm, they didn't really visit. I was kind of just like sent away. Am I Anne of Green Gable? Wait a minute. You guys, maybe that's why I hate that book so much. So then you went back home though? When I was like 15. Yeah.

But by then it's like. By then I am like, I only eat raisins and drink diet Coke. I'm going to be so perfect that I will, that will never happen again. And they're going to regret that they sent me away. And I'm going to like come back the kid that is going to change their dopamine. receptors? Like, I just didn't know, you know? As a kid, you don't know that your parents are being run by their own demons and their own trauma and their own... We also didn't talk about that stuff. Do you know what led to you being taken back? I had by that point kind of begged to go back.

Like, I think it was, I had been there for a couple years and then they said you can live with your mom. I think there's something that not a lot of people talk about. Um, and I don't have the vocabulary for it, but I realized recently, like, a lot of my life I've spent in shock. Like, we talk about, like, trauma response. You know, I've just, I mean, I've been shock about it a lot of the times. It's like flight, fight, or freeze. Because I, I'm pretty much fight for the most part. Like, when shit hits the fan of the dog park, I'm the person who's putting their finger

in the dog's butt holes to break up the dog fight. Is that a thing you have to do? Yes. How many fingers? How many times have you had to do that? Just do one. Just spit on one and one should do. It depends on the size of the dog, I guess.

I didn't know this. Does that work for humans? You can go over to Israel and just start to. I'm sorry. I just want to be of service. I just thought you guys, I think I know how to solve this problem. Oh, my gosh. The reason I asked that, though, Whitney, is because I wondered about 15-year-old you

if you felt some sort of agency, like you had, participated in being taken back. And, you know, for a kid, like, what does that do to their sense of thinking that they can control an uncontrollable situation? That's a really good question. And I wish I had a better answer. But it did make me think that I did feel this obligation, a big part of, you know, ACA's struggles is we feel obligated to other people.

We feel obligated to go to their parties. We feel this obligatory friendships, even if they deplete us. or, you know, whatever, these obligations to say yes to everything. And I, you know... I don't know what she's talking about. The people that I... Whitney, can you put your finger in my tissue? Break up the fighting in your head.

That by then, my aunt and uncles wanted me to stay there. And they were very... They didn't want me to leave. Well, we love a dual loyalty situation. We love it. We love not being able to please it. anyone so that we have to find a way to please everyone. So then I've got four adults who are getting their emotional needs met by a child,

which is just not appropriate. I now know it's an adult. I now know it had nothing to do with me or my sparkling personality. I didn't have one at the time I was checking out and pretending I was on Oprah. I mean, no one was emotionally attached to the kid who was always thought they were in a commercial. But whatever needs met they were getting from me, right? They were getting their internal needs met by external things. their codependence, they were trying to care take me.

And I just, like, you know, couldn't grow up. But so I remember hurting them and feeling like I broke their heart and disappointed them. And then, but I also had to go back to so that my mom didn't feel like a bad mom. So I just had, it was just like, and then I didn't want to be a bad sister and a bad daughter to my dad. So I'm just kind of like trying to be perfect at all costs. And I think I'm being pulled in a lot of directions. And the only control that I had was like, well, I'm not eating.

or I'm just going to drink diet soda. I also think moving in with my mom, I live in an apartment with her. And, you know, I think a lot of people live in apartments. That's, I think, more common than we might think. But we were in a very small space. And we were more like girlfriends than parents' daughter. You know, I would like drive her places when she wanted to drink.

And she would have friends over. She was single. And she was looking for a man and, like, good for her. But we were more like girlfriends. So, you know, I would come out on a school night and be like, can you guys keep it down? I'm trying to sleep. It was kind of more that. So I think because she restricted her eating, it was sort of how to be friends with her kind of, Sue. It's like, oh, we're, I have a question. When did your parents pass? My dad was five years ago and my mom was this past

January. Oh, my goodness. Wow. They were in beds for 10 years. It was, wow. Do you have fond memories? Like are there points that you can anchor to? And especially like when we do 12-step work, you know, there's a lot of notion of like getting the whole story. Yeah. Yeah. Because sometimes we come in with like a very specific story. And, you know, a lot of people when I hear them share, they're like, I don't want to talk too much about what it used to be like. And I was like, well, you're not my person because I'll talk forever about what it used to be like. But where are those points? And especially now that you are with child, You know, this is like, this is now the reckoning that, you know, we get to do as adults, you know, where are those good points? What are the sweet spots that you can kind of feel linked to? That's the hardest part about it is like my mom was hilarious. I mean, she was, my friends were obsessed with my mom. I was that person where people would come over and be like, is your mom here? Like, they didn't want to hang out with my mom. She did public relations for Bloomingdale. She's hilarious. She's smart. She's.

She's like gorgeous. She just was like not ready to parents, you know, or had gone through such a brutal divorce herself was trying to get the next man or trying to have a life and be resilient. My dad was hysterical. Like my dad would, he was, it makes me laugh. He was, you know, a lawyerish, lovish and sunclear, what exactly, you know. But he would just go into public spaces, like malls and he would just like yell.

He would be like, can I, can I, can anyone find? an honest man? Is there an honest man? Is there such a thing as an honest man? Like he would just like do shit like that and it was so embarrassing but so funny. Like he was just, he had the biggest personality

and I think that's probably why it took me so long to pathologize anything because I was like, I have the funniest dad ever. I have the coolest mom ever, but they don't want to hang out with me. So I must be a piece of shit. You know, and they want to hang out with all these other people

and everyone else just gravitates toward them. I mean, my dad was like, I remember at a very young age, waitresses just sitting with us. And I just thought it was, was normal that a waitress would sit down and have your meal with you. Like, everyone had a, my, I remember my mom worked in public relations in Washington, D.C. And we went to the White House.

She was invited to the White House. And Bill Clinton was, like, flirting with her. Like, I was like, like, it was a little bit of a low bar though. It's a lot. Honestly, which is why she was murdered in cold blood. So she knew too much. I never got to see the island. So, yeah, to answer your question, like, when it was good, there was nothing better, which is probably, it wasn't like, all these boring parents that don't want to hang out with me. It was like, I really want to be in your guys's life.

Well, so I think that's sort of where my question goes next. And like, you know, there's so many, so many places I want to go. But I really, I can't, you know, you're so, you have so much self-awareness. And I think it's really, no, I think it's really, it's helpful. But the place that I would like you to sort of, you know, give us a little bit of education, you know, codependency has become like one of these words. Yeah. You know, I group it with like OCD. Like, I have PTSD. Like, some people do. It's a thing. Yeah. But you, you seem to know a lot. you know, about like the specifics. And, you know, many people, I mean, I'm just this jerk.

You know, a lot of people like miss, they misdefine codependency. You know, they're just like, I really love him. I'm like, that's not codependency. Right. So codependency, you know, the notion that I'm not okay if you're not okay, you know, is one of sort of like the hallmark things. And then what are the lengths that we go to to make sure that we're okay, you know, through someone else being okay.

But I wonder if you can talk about, because I'm trying to think about, I mean, I don't want to think about myself because I do that all the other hours of the day, but I'm thinking about what you've just described. I'm thinking about that person. And I'm thinking about that person then deserving love, affection, attention.

Who do you look for? What does that look like? Where does it go wrong? And where does it go right? Can I say just an addendum to what helped me and the codependence of it all of the definition? Yeah. Or I'd love to hear how you define it.

The way you said it was perfect. And I think sometimes the way we define it makes us look like heroes or something and the codependence of it all is like, you know, for me the definition that worked was the inability to tolerate the discomfort of others or perceived discomfort. Right?

So it's like someone else is uncomfortable. I have to do whatever I have to do to make them comfortable. But what's more annoying? than someone people please. Like, it doesn't work. It's never worked. Being helpful doesn't help.

And the people that sort of thaw on over others, I was to make sure you're okay. I mean, I actually was in the car on the way here. And I was like, I didn't bring her a gift. And I was like, that is such progress. Like, because I collect these vintage neuroscience books. And I was like, oh, I should have given her that neuroscience book. And I would love it.

And I was just like, don't do that. So it's, and people must be like, why, I can't you. It's okay to give gifts, but if your intention is that it is a transaction that I need to endear myself. And this is like so like I need to always fawn. For me, it's always like, I'll pay for that. And it's like, well, I don't know that it is my place always, right, to pay for that or to do that. But that notion of, and that's what I was going to say is a lot of people think that like, I'm codependent. But what this kind of definition is helpful with is what is my behavior, look like, right, in a friendship. It's not just romantic, right? What does it look like if I work?

Right. It often looks like what you just described, like trying to constantly endear yourself. Additioning for approval every day. And that gives them a power that they don't want. And if they do want it, like you have to need me. They got to go. Yes. And I'm constantly going to do all these things to make you think I'm a good person instead of just the best thing I can do is just take care of myself. But I'm going to fuss over you. And even complimenting, over complimenting. what it also does, it's patronizing. It's like, you're not okay without me. You're a mess. So I'm going to take care of you. But I usually find people who are like, you're right. You're right. I love you. Give them my number. Okay, so tell me, what does, what does young Whitney look

like when she wants to date someone? Oh, these days. Well, no, I'm curious when you were younger. Oh, younger. I mean, you have some, like, hilarious stories. You are not young right now. No, no, I mean, like, when you're, you know, I'm thinking, like, who are you? Who are you? You know, did you always date alcoholics, for example? Did you always date addicts? If you grow up in that and, you know, we're all doing what we were programmed to do unless we actively deprogram, I could walk in a room and just vibrate on a different frequency, one person in a room. Everyone, boring, boring, boring, boring, anyone who has a secure attachment style, anyone who just, like, wants to make, I'm just, I can find the most recently separated, California sober, Wynonna Ryder, Texas. Just like, you know, it's part of the reason I was so fascinated by the Johnny Depp, Amber

Hurt thing. I was just like, I, this is what I grew up around, first of all. But I was just like, riveted. And everyone was like, why are you watching that? I was like, duh. Like, it's, you vibrate. We call them Christmas trees. Like, you can walk into a room and someone just lights up.

And there's an instant. It's unfortunate sometimes we call it chemistry or butterflies and glorify this thing that might Sparks. No. There were sparks. Yes. No, these could be alarm bells. This could be the good anxiety that's getting you to go like, no, no, no, go the other direction.

But I'm like, daddy, daddy, you know? And even though it's, I'm like, no, it's toxic. It's addictive. So that's where the love addiction comes in. It's just like, I know this is bad for me. I know how the story is going to end, but I do not have any control. This is going to make my life unmanageable. I can't take a cruncher reaction.

Even when it stops being fun, I got it. Which is where the gambling addiction comes in a little bit. Like a week ago. had this great night. So I said this and I wore this. That is gambling. So maybe if I say this and wear this and put this music on and order this food, I'll get that. That's whatever, cherry on the slot machine again or whatever it is. You know, so I found myself in relationships where I had to constantly audition for approval, chase someone, someone who's just emotionally unavailable for whatever litany of reason, someone that was, you know, just shady and I had to constantly

do math. Growing up in an alcohol comb, you're always doing the Rubik's cube of like, you It's like trying to read. I dated someone who was once like, why do you think that you know what's going on with me when I don't? And I was like, because I know what that eyelash movement means. You don't, but I swear I do. I think it bothered him more when I was right. Oh, I bet.

No, because like even if it was like something little and the way it was explained to me is when you are so fine-tuned to the sound of keys, you can tell by the sound of the keys. if they're in a good mood or not. You can tell by the cadence of feet. You can tell by how the door opens and how quickly it closes after it. You can tell by how the fridge opens and what's being taken out.

Like, you can tell. So, of course, if you put me in an intimate situation with someone, you know, especially someone that, like, I want to have like me, I will be able to tell what that eyebrow movement meant before you do. This is L.A. No one's eyebrows move. But, you know, yes, and I think to be more elegant about this, because I feel like that was ugly the way I just said

that. I think to be more specific, people that made me question my own self-worth, people that made me go, like, you shouldn't have said that that was so dumb. Or, well, it's because you have eyebags and you need to get rid of those eyebags. And it's because you're fat. And it's because you're not funny enough and uninteresting enough. And that's why this happened. People that made me question my self-worth because I went, oh, they must be right. Like, I know what this is. This is like the comfortable, you know, sort of pain instead of the unfamiliar. And if people were interested in me or love me, it was like, what get, what is, like, or were present and available?

Did you sabotage? I mean, were you a person who like, if it felt good, like, did you find a reason for it not to be good? It, um, self-sabotage, I guess I get confused about that because I think I am so radically in my like higher power, like, I'm a cut and run person myself. Okay. Oh, okay. which I think is a form of sabotage.

But if it's going well, would you run? Mm-hmm. Okay. But, okay, so this is a place we're different. Well, it's really... We don't have to be the same. I'd like us to be the same, but we don't have to be. It's really more...

I think I'm so... And maybe this is a way to get myself off the hook, so let me just check that ego thing, where it's like, when I go like, well, if I'm in my third step or if I'm aligned with God, I can't look back and say I sabotage that. I must have been doing the right thing

because then this wouldn't have happened. Right. This wouldn't happen. I wouldn't be here. if I had stayed in that. But I also think that to your point about overpathologizing, like when people I've been accused of

and openly admit to being like your commitment phobic, you have intimacy issues. It's like, well, maybe I just don't want to commit to you. Maybe I don't want to be intimate with you. I think it's okay to like trust your gut a little. I'm not going to force myself to be in a relationship with someone.

If my gut is saying get out of that, I think we all have such a trouble telling the difference between what's a, like a learned maladaptive response and what's our instinct just saying this isn't right? Like the person who once said to me, are you a prude? And I said, no, I'm just discriminating. I just don't want your tongue in my mouth. Yep. I'm not a prude. I know when I want someone's tongue in my mouth. I don't want your tongue in my mouth.

That. And at first I was like, am I a prude? Because like, am I a prude? Did I? And I was like, no, I know what to do when I want someone's tongue in my mouth. It took me a lie. I know what to. My body knows how to react. I know how to receive that. So I do, that's, that just bothers me a little bit when, you know, it's like people are like, you have intimacy issues. It's like, it's been six months and it's not, this isn't taking. Like, it's just not taking. Most people are not a match. Right?

Most people are not a match, you know, and I think that I had the opposite of, I'm going to talk myself into this, but on this, he's so nice. And it's just not, it's also just not a match. And that's okay, too. Let's talk more about anxiety that we're trying to get rid of. And anxiety is a gift of intuitive. You know, Harvaryl Hendricks is obviously very intelligent. He talks about we are often attracted to the negative qualities of our primary caretakers.

Our primary caretakers. And so when we have disorganized or chaotic attachment figures, then it's interesting that, you know, how you describe it, where you'll find that one person who. And so in that moment, a lot of us have a confusion between, oh, this feels familiar. This is a huge rush of sensation, and we associate that with love versus, wait a second, these are early warning signals that we don't identify as early warning signals and trying to parse that out and understand what are we actually sensing? What does it mean to us? Because this is actually the darkest part. After reading that book, whatever, I'd have that

feeling. Because I think he also talks about you attract to those in order to heal the wounds. I'm like, no, I'm not attracted to some toxic. I'm just over here healing, you guys. Like, I'm meant to be in this so that I can heal my wounds. You know, this guy's my healer. Yes, he's married, but look, I'm over here just healing. My inner child wants what she wants. I'm not going to not be. I do attachment parenting with my inner child.

And so I'm not going to say no to her. I'm going to let her give her the dignity. She just wants to play. Yeah. This is where you can be so over sort of therapies that you can just identify something and that's why one of our slogan is keep it simple. Just keep it simple. Stop, try to...

Do you have a different sensation now or a different relationship with sensation where you're like, oh, I feel this and that's actually telling me this? Because, you know, when you were talking about the similarities between the two of you, one thing that Lyme does get accused of sometimes is

being so in the head that the body sometimes doesn't follow. I think for me, it's more how am I first of all am I walking on eggshells around someone

yes if I am sorry this isn't a quiz I'm sorry I'm gonna give birth oh god also if you give birth on the podcast

it would do wonders we would love for you to give birth on this right like I gave birth literally in the next room by myself we can do this

close by I can have my placenta for lunch. And so I think for me, I just have to check myself, am I people pleasing with somebody? Am I being overly unctuous and overcomplementing somebody? Because that might be a red flag. I don't need to diagnose them and be like, oh, I'm dealing with a narcissist.

I'm dealing with a borderline. I just have to go like, I didn't even need to focus on their people. Like, red flags and other people. It's like, think about what you're doing in response to them. Don't think about them because you can't diagnose them you don't know. And I also, it does bother me that people aren't doctors or don't know. It's like, well, he's a narcissist. I'm like, how do you,

like, you're 24 and you've DMed him on him. Hines twice. Is there just been? Yeah. Sorry. I mean, he's a magician. It's like, there's so many worse things about this guy. And so. It's like when the O.T. said that my, like, she's like, you report that your son has problems finding things in the fridge. I'm like, yes, because he's male.

I don't know if that's a clinical problem. Aren't they all colorblind? Aren't most guys colorblind? I just can't find anything on a shelf. I don't know. And so I think I just have to sort of take an inventory of what my motives are. Like, are my motives all of a sudden to make this person like me? Are my motives are to try to assuage this person's ego? Do I want something from this person?

Like, am I regressing emotionally? Am I trying too hard to be funny? Am I trying too hard to be smart? You literally just listed my relationship manual. People please. Complement. Always be sexually available. Like, this is my manual.

No, that's not right. One of the biggest laughs I ever got in a room in a meeting was I was talking about how I was in a relationship where I would wear really, like, painful, sexy lingerie at all times just in case he would like to. Oh, I'm wearing that right now just because I don't know what might happen with us. I'm sorry. I mean, I already asked you to put a finger in my tissue. That's more place. Under that hoodie is just like a ball gag. I can't.

Okay. Oh, God, I'm just picturing, looking down and seeing the leg from the Christmas story with the fishnets talking. Like, what is she doing? Okay. She was barefooted. That's very sexual to a lot of people. I would like to know your opinion on foot fetishes. So, like always perpetuating.

always standing by, always focused on the other person. And if I find myself leaving a conversation with someone and obsessing over how poorly the conversation went and how badly I performed, like, that's just these are red flags. Like, my inner child for some reason came out and tugged and went like, it's showtime for whatever reason. And that person didn't do anything wrong, but I either need to be going to more meetings. I either need to be doing more service. I either need to be like doing more self-care.

and then I have to do that and then reassess. Tell me about your use of the inner child. You know, this was something that I hated. Hated. And, you know, comes more from the therapy world, you know, like psychotherapy and internal family systems work and all this stuff. When did you sort of like come to terms with like,

what is this inner child? Is it one child? Like, do you have one image of like, this is my inner child? Like, do you, like, where does that fit into your day and your life? Sure. It was, it was a game changer for me. It's in the big red book, the big ACA book, there's an exercise where you, well, first, you know, when you do amends in ACA, the first person you make amends to is yourself. And then, and then my sponsor said, everyone you think, oh, you in amends is who you'll end up making an amends to. And then an amends to the inner child. And there's this exercise where in your writing, hand, you write questions for your inner child, and then in your left hand, you respond. He loved, Jonathan loves writing with his other hand as the inner child. And it was, what is that exercise? Can you explain it to us? So in your right, like, why? Like in your right hand,

you'll, your dominant hand, sorry, sorry, we'll say, um, you're so handist. I didn't right. I was going to say what canceling you. I was about to say it's ablest, but then I'd be implying that lefties are, I'm just going to stay out of this. I know. And so, um, you write a, question to your inner child, five questions. And for me, I think it was like, what do you want to eat for dinner? Because I was struggling with the eating stuff. And the big thing was, just feed yourself the way you would feed a child. The cheat for ACAs is often live as if you are caring for a child. Wow. So you would never tell a child, you're re-parenting. You would never tell a child, you're not going to eat lunch. You would never tell a child, you're not going to brush your teeth

this morning. You would know, well, I'm sure it happens. But you would never tell a child, you have to hang out with someone that makes you uncomfortable. You have to talk to this person that makes you uncomfortable, you're going to skip, have Diet Coke for dinner. You would never do that to a child, so why would you do that to yourself? So it's that little sneak. And then on my home screen of my phone was a photo of me at like five. And so I was always kind of just trying to So then your left hand, which is your non-dominant hand, so your brain is going to have to do a whole dance. So I would ask questions. So specifically, the first couple were about food. What do you want to eat for dinner? What's your favorite food? And then who do you want to hang out with this

weekend, like, who's your best friends? Stuff that was like questions you would more ask a child, and then you respond in your non-dominant hand, and the writing looks like a kid's writing. And I instantly just started sobbing. Wow. You know, it was pretty wild. And crying was not a tool that I used very often back then. And the answer to what's your favorite food was, as an adult, I'd be like, oh, it's, you know, at the time was probably something, you know, stupid. Right. And cafe, whatever fake anorexic food. that I was pretending is like, I'm vegan, I'm microbiotic. I'm like, no, it's, I haven't eaten story.

And I'm just dumb. And so I remember writing, my dad and I used to make these, like, toast with peanut butter and honey and the honey would be in a smiley face. And I wrote like peanut butter smile. And I had forgotten that we even did it. It was like this, maybe it was just the allowing of it, maybe whatever. It was in your brain, though, and you pulled it out. Instantly, I had forgot.

It was a memory that completely dislodged and just started sobbing, you know, and like, who's your best friend? I didn't say the person I think should be my best friend or the people that I was forcing myself to be friends with. It was like my best friend from when I was probably eight, nine, you know, and had totally kind of forgotten about her. So I found it incredibly powerful. And so doing that, you know, I was also on my knees. Like I was also at a place where I was like real desperate. And so that was really helpful for me. And then just to use the term inner child reaction, it's like, it's not, it's just like, oh,

if it's hysterical, it's historical. Like, if I'm really this upset about this, it's probably something. Even if you're like, the inner child feels odd to you, it's just kind of like, it's not about this. It's about triggering. I hate that word is so rough these days. But it's like, this is bringing up something old. Activating. Yeah.

And so it's kind of exactly. Like this, you know, that's why we have halt in our program. Like before you react to something, we want to respond and not react. it's like, am I hungry, angry, lonely, or tired? Because when a kid freaks out, you're not like, are you having a bad reaction? You're just like, do you need some water? Yeah. Do you need a nap?

Usually they haven't eaten or they have to poop. Right. Yeah. We should do Hulp. We should add that. Yeah, totally. So it's like I'm probably having a histrotic reaction to this because I haven't taken care of myself. I haven't eaten today.

I haven't slept. I've, you know, been like focusing on whatever. And my self-care didn't come first. My solution was getting into bed and saying good night to Jonathan at 8 p.m. I texted him. And I was like, I'm done with this day. And he's like, at eight, yes. And I also like, that's a gift that I gave to everyone in my life that I closed my eyes at eight o'clock.

And so is that when you just go, I'm going to take a contrary action and not send text up for this time? And I had a million things I had to do. I had a million things that I needed to handle, think about, worry about. And my head had been hurting since the middle of the night. And I made it through the day and it started hurting again. And I was like, this is, and that is recovery. Yep. Because my other solution would have been like, if I drink a small can of Coke, I will have

energy for three more hours. And then I will eat the chocolate that is in the cupboard. That is what the inner child would have gotten for himself. I mean, before Overeaters Anonymous, I would have been like, it's 10 p.m. Let's make mac and cheese. Yep. And let's eat it until midnight. So the recovery was saying,

nothing else needs to happen today. Like, for real, the cats are fed. Yep. I'm going to make a confession. I was too lazy to wash the sheets. So they were still in the hamper, and I was in the bed. Okay.

And my 18-year-old came to say... Chates can still go on in bed. Well, but they were in the hamper because they were supposed to make it to the machine. Okay, but... So the 18-year-old... There's only one pair of sheets. I am a boy.

There's only one pair of sheets in that house. That's right. So my 18-year-old came from his dad's. You know, he came home. And I texted, I'm in bed, but please come say goodnight. So in the practical darkness, he's like, there are no sheets on this bed. Are you a bachelor? I felt like saying, we've been divorced 12 years. You know I'm a bachelor. But you're Jewish. Don't you have sex through them? I had to cut holes in the other ones. Is that why you only have one? You only have one pair of un-servant sized sheets. That's abelist. Okay. Anyway. Sorry.

In any event, what I was also able to do was not lie to my child and be like, there are sheets. It's dark. You can't. I said, you know what? It didn't get done today, but yours and your brothers did. So you can go put yours on your bed. And I went to sleep and I stayed in that bed. I woke up a lot, didn't have great dreams.

But the headache is mostly gone. Awesome. And that's what needed to happen. happen because for most of my life, you get by. Get by on one cup of coffee and a cigarette. You get by on four hours of sleep. You just keep going. And everyone's going to pay the price around you. Correct. And that's what you get for loving me. I identify a lot with your mom, you know, especially before I had, I think, the right kind of recovery. I was always, you know, when I was especially newly divorced. Yeah. Stressed out, overworked,

not receiving the care that I need it, you know? Of course. And really just white knuckling it. Yep. You know, like I just white knuckled it. And also I owe a living amends to my children for the rest of their lives because they experienced a mother who was white knuckling it. And so I get to constantly do the best that I can.

And I do. I have, you know, different and better resources now. I think, I mean, I also think adversity is good for goods. And they need a little smattering of it. And, you know. I think it's, you've mentioned this in another podcast of like it's not about making quote mistakes. Is there such a thing? Right. It's a different conversation for someone smarter than me. But that it's really not about whether you make them. It's how you repair. And you say, I'm sorry, I made a mistake. Oh, you know, I tell them. And then they learn they can make mistakes. The get one of the greatest gifts of being part of a 12 step program is learning how to legit apologize as quickly as you notice that you need to. Because I used to hold on to and like, I used to sit and I would wallow in it and I would write the draft of the note and the thing.

How about, oh my God, I wronged you. I have to do it as quickly as possible or I'm going to get the ulcer, not you. Yep. So I'd like to pivot a little bit to, I mean, I looked like this before I got pregnant, but you are pregnant. And you, you know, you are at a place in life now where you get to experience some. something, you know, from a completely different place of recovery and health. Like, I'm not saying we're ever cured. But what? I think I am. Okay, fine. You're perfect. What, what was that like? Was there a lot of perseveration? I know that you did set aside your girls. I did. Set aside the

eggs? Got some eggs on Hermosa. I'm, you know, curious, like, did you really know, like, now's the time. What did that feel like? It's actually fascinating. It's actually fascinating. Because a friend of mine, because I got pregnant, kind of like, was like, if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't, you know, at 40. And, you know. You had to be then having sex with someone. You didn't get to be walking around with an egg. Sorry. It's this was, yes. I was, I had talked very publicly in a couple stand-up specials about freezing my eggs. So everyone thinks I, like had sex with a Tesla or something. I don't know. It's like, I was with a human. So it was with a human. You were open to that possibility. Yes. I went off birth control. And I was like, if it happens, it happens. It doesn't. It doesn't. I wanted it to, but I think I see so many women when you try so hard, you would know the science of this. It seems like it kind of shuts your body down or something, you know. And so I was like, just like not attached to it. It was definitely smoking weed before bed. Right. After sex, I just lied there for longer than I normally would instead of getting up and I don't want to get a huge guy. I was kind of, you know, my mama just died. Grief does wild things to our brains. And I said to a girlfriend of mine, I was like, is it crazy that I'm like pregnant? Like, what is this like so crazy? And she was like, are you out of your mind? Like, you told me five years ago, you were like, because it was at a time when I was doing

the steps over again, and I learned about the tool of scheduling when to worry about something instead of just going, I need to worry about, da-da-da. You go like, you know what? December 1st, I'm going to start worrying about this thing. And I will make a decision by December 15. Or my favorite is you can worry about that for 20 minutes today. And then you do not worry about it again today. Totally.

Or going like, you know, a friend of mine's in this bad relationship and I'm worried. Just like, you know what, let's like worry about it in a month for two days. and then, you know, whatever. Like, so I was, I guess, in that moment, and I was obviously perseverating about having kids at 35, finding myself sort of lowering my bar for people and being like, I don't think this is the perfect match, but like, I'm 35, so I'm going to have to, you know,

this will have to do. He's got a chain wallet, but like, whatever. And so then, thanks. So I guess I had said to her, she's my, a gala, I do, like, equine therapy stuff, trainer. And she was like, you told me, you were like, I'm going to have a kid at 40, regardless. I don't know if it's going to be adoption.

I don't know if it's going to be surrogate. I don't know if it's going to be eggs. I'm going to get pregnant 40, and I'm not going to think about it until then. And I kind of forgot that I had sort of put that out in the universe. But so I guess that was also like subconsciously kind of at play too. I think I thought by then, like I'll be fixed by then. You know, I was really scared about, you know, recreat or what's the word?

When you keep something going? Perpetuating. Perpetuating. Perpetuating. Perpetuating, like, ancestral curses and cycles, you know. And I was like, that's probably when I'll be mature enough to be a mom and solvent enough and have done the things in my career. So I'll never resent the kid because I felt very resented.

Oh, you'll resent them. I felt very resented by my mom that I was, because she had this amazing career and she was great at her job. And I always felt like, I was like, you know, I had to go to Bloomingdale's with her and, like, sit in her office. And, you know, she always just dragged me to stuff, you know. So I was sort of like. Which also wasn't cool then. Like, children were supposed to be like had and left. No, I would like choplift.

Yeah, I was like a nightmare. Right. You know? And so I always thought I'm going to have a kid at 40 regardless of I have a partner, regardless what the circumstances are, you know. You didn't use the frozen eggs? I haven't used the frozen ice yet. Wow.

Oh, natural. Maybe for the next one. Oh, Natch. Wow. I had been on birth control for years and now's not like the hot time to be negative to birth control, but it just ultimately I didn't realize how much it made me a zon. and how much it was sort of affecting. Well, it's convincing your body that you're pregnant when you're not, which is not really a fun place to be.

And when you're pregnant, you're more hypervigilant. You know, you have to be, as you should be. So I sort of went off of it when I couldn't cry after my mom died. I'm watching her die in hospice and I'm not crying. And I'm like, I guess I'm just a psychopath when off birth control, cried for months, had so much more energy, like just for me, served its purpose when I needed it. I used to get really bad migraines. I thought it was, they said go on birth control.

And turns out it wasn't the presence of hormones. It's I had to cut out some people. Oh! You know what I mean? It's sort of like the people giving me the adrenaline and cortisol. Like I had to get rid of some relationships like instead of add drugs. Wow. Yeah.

And then so yeah, just kind of happened naturally. Here I am and got a kid and psyched and scared. Unpacking a few things. Markers are ancestral curses. Also scheduling worries phenomenal. I think people underestimate how powerful that is. They're like, oh, just like it puts it out of your head. So I think people should consider doing that if they haven't done it.

But you mentioned earlier in the episode, you were all got it up. And then you put this into the universe, this notion of having a kid at 40. Like, what do you think happened? Do you think you just set the intention and sort of created a life plan? Do you think it's coincidence? Like, what do you, how do you explain this? That's a great. I'm, again, I'm sure there's someone way smarter than me or, you know, I, I do go in and out of the Abraham Hicks cults when I'm desperate of the, do I know the Abraham Hicks cult? Ooh, Abraham Hicks is like a, it's kind of like the secret, if I'm going to be, it's McDonald's therapy.

It's Abraham Hicks is like a speaker that talks about manifesting your own reality. Oh, okay. And you have to feel the feelings of the thing that you want. Okay. And maybe the neuroscience perspective is like you're training your brain. Right, right. Have a certain tolerance for something. And then you gravitate it.

But that's, is it manifesting? Is that? It is manifesting. Like, there is science and sport where you're practicing an outcome by pre-visualizing it. And then that is creating the circuitry for the thing to actually happen. And so that gets expanded into you're creating the energetic field, in the world that allows the thing to come to you. So Abraham takes it a little further.

And sometimes you're like, yeah, there's like a multiple personality. There's like a, I don't know, sometimes they get very confused and it feels very corny. But every now and then there's just like that one thing that's said in the way that my brain can't fight with or roll my eyes at. And so I think I kind of felt the feelings of I'm going to have a kid. I don't need to worry about not having a kid because then I'm just going to manifest not having a kid. And then I'm going to project the stress on what man wants to take them. let me to have a kid down. You know, so I kind of was like, I got this.

And I'm going to have a kid at 40. And so I don't know what that means for the universe and manifesting, but it was just already decided. And I guess I just lived my life accordingly. I definitely, like, started working harder in this area and started saving money in this area. And it was always like, oh, because I'm going to have a kid at 40. You know, so I just have to, like, have all this ducks in a row.

You know, so I guess I, I, maybe it's just a, Coincidence also. Huh. Could also just be a coincidence. But I never worried that it wouldn't happen, even though I wasn't really like a, I held a baby for the second time yesterday. I was like, I was in front of my head. Maybe I should practice this.

Had it six months old. And he was like, do you want to hold him? And I was like, I probably should. That would probably be a good idea. Like, I don't know. Meth heads do it in the woods. Teenagers do it. Like, I had a plastic baby as a kid.

I put it in a microwave. like a couple. Like, I feel like I'll know what to do. I mean, something will kick in, you know. So I think that I don't necessarily have the correct answer to your question, but that's, those are my guess. That is the correct answer. Just avoid the microwave.

You'll be fine. Yeah. So, so it's maybe that. What, what scares you? Ooh, really good question. Or what scares you that you want to talk about? Because something scare us that we don't need to talk about on a podcast. What scares me?

eye contact for long periods of time? No, I meant about this process. Just like in general. Like, this is a good date. No, what, you know what? I don't want to say, what scares you, you know, what, I mean, look, when I do a fear inventory,

it's almost all about my kids, you know, and like things I'm going to do that are going to be, that are going to make their life miserable, irreparable, like, I'll fail, you know. So I'm curious, like, do you have, And also, you know, you have a lot of recovery under your belt, which I think is a beautiful place, you know, to come from. You know, a lot of people don't get into the rooms until, you know, their kids are in their teens or 20s. And, you know, but I'm curious, especially considering kind of what you came from.

What kind of makes you nervous? And I'll also be remiss to not say this, even though I kind of, because I did have blue hair for a while. So people already think I'm, like, on drugs. but I did do over the pandemic a oxytocin ketamine nasal spray treatment with a doctor treatment at a guy club yeah it was me and Dr. Dre

A clinical assisted Yes got it ketamine um it was it lasts for a couple hours it wasn't the drip I haven't done the drip but there was a couple things that I couldn't quite crystallize in program I couldn't quite forgive this person I couldn't quite and that's trauma work which lives outside of

12-step programs as it were. Yeah, I couldn't quite melt this resentment. I couldn't quite think I was good enough to be a mom. I couldn't quite, you know, and I do think, you know, look, I had a lot of program before that. There was a therapist assisting me in it. That definitely helped me with just a couple irrational fears. It really... They put it in your nose? You just yep, up the nose. And then they sit with you. You talk about it. And you talk about it. But I got to the point to where I was like, I'm like, the person that's the person that's, that sexually abused me as a child, he was sexually abused and hurt people, her people. I was like, I think I might be going too far.

Well, that's, but there's a, those are, I need to send him love. That's an empathogen. And the notion is not like that ketamine is used clinically to like make you forgive your abuser. The notion is that, you know, those kinds of drugs, those kind of experiences are giving you a 30,000 foot view on your experience as part of a larger, like you're literally part of the cosmos. Like it's, you know, um, Totally. And I had, which I didn't totally realize when my sponsor told me the first time I did my fourth step, she said there's no women in your fourth step. And I definitely realized I had some stuff with girl friendships.

I think after coming from my mom being very emotional, like I just had trouble with women and girl friendships. Women scared me a little bit. I thought I had to take care of them. I worried about it. It just was. So that also helped me with a lot of female friendships, just taking the charge out of it. And so I felt so much stronger going forward having a kid, you know, because I now was able to nurture all these incredible friendships with women. Sorry, you know, it's not often that people mention sexual abuse in passing the way you did.

But is that, was that something that was, you know, did that factor into sort of a lot of your journey as a child, teenager? Like, where did that fit with all the other stuff? I mean, I think that from what I understand, a lot of the restrictive eating stuff connects to, from what I understand, sexual abuse and or overeating. Sometimes it's to make yourself less sexual and make yourself, you know, like subconsciously or being really heavy as a way to protect yourself subconsciously from that. I don't think I, you know, I think it probably made me in relationships. I was very scared of men for a long time and just kind of wasn't sexually active. in a way that was, you know, very consistent or present. I wasn't present in sexual activity for, you know, quite a while, is probably where it showed up. I think it probably made me really good at being alone. And what I do for a living is a very independent solo lone wolf job. You have lots of friends that are comics, you know.

Also surrounded by men who you get to have a, you know, a businessy relationship with. Totally. And I developed this armor of like how to get someone to not find me attractive to repel men. I developed very repellent personality in a lot of ways or sort of masculinized myself. And, you know, so I'm sure there's all kinds of, what's the word, like ramifications, you know, from that that I haven't spent like a ton of time. You know, I think from what I understand, it's way more common than so I, I never want to be the person. It's like, I'm the only child that's ever been cute or something. Like I feel like it's, you know, and a lot of it was really nebulous.

It was one was with the stepmother in the shot. And you're kind of like, oh, I thought that was just how showers worked. You know, Jeanette McCurdy's talked about this, you know. So I think a lot of it. And then you've got like a coach for a team. And you're like, it's stuff like that where you're sort of like, was that, was it not? Is it helpful to really unpack that? You know, so I think I've maybe unpacked it as much as helpful.

Okay. So let's get back. I appreciate that. So let's get back to sort of what, what, I don't want to say what scares you. What are some of the challenges you anticipate with being apparent given all the things you know about yourself? Totally. Because I often say if I had more recovery, I might have been like, do I want to do this? Yeah, yeah.

I think my thing is the biggest thing, honestly, because I don't want to be the, act like the first person that's ever been a mom that drives me nuts when women act like that. My biggest thing, this might be a hat to, is like fentanyl. is like I think about like what my, you know, I know it's like, what is it? Genetics loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger. Like there's addiction in my family. Would you just say genetics loads the gun environment pulls the trigger for addiction, you know? It's kind of like, so it's like if your kid is loaded with addiction and that's what we come from

because that's served our ancestors really well, that's the thing about addicts. It's like we're kind of the over-evolved, you know what I mean, keep eating this berry because we don't know when there's going to be more of these berries. He's like, keep having sex with this because we need to have more population. You know, it's, so sometimes addicts are like the best people at a lot of ways and probably served a very important purpose in the tribe. And so for me, it's like I just look at my friends that have teenagers and, you know, I have a cousin in college and her kids. As a kid, you should, I've never done cocaine, but you should probably be able to try it a couple times.

You know, I don't know, and not die, you know. I think for me, that's where I get. So your campaign is really, can we please remove the fentanyl from cocaine so that people can just have a couple experiences? So they know they don't like it. As a parent, I feel like I'm going to need to do some blow. Sorry, I just like that that's it. I just need to do some cocaine without thinking there might be fentanyl in it. Is this such a hard thing to ask in the universe?

I think this is a campaign you need to take on. We could start a go fund me. Go F-U-N. Go fund me with it. I just, I feel that's what I worry about. I feel like there's so many tools now. I mean, there's podcasts like this. Kids are resilient.

They're going to, I'm going to make mistakes and I'm going to apologize. But I can't control what happens outside the house. I also feel like I struggle a little bit. I was sort of southern parented. There was nothing a pinch couldn't solve, you know? I was the, if you're having a tantrum in the grocery store. I'll give you something to cry about. But it was also just like, it was just like we're going to the car because if,

I'm sorry, you're pinching. your neck? No, my mom, you just pinch my ear, you know, like we're going to the car. You know, when, because I would, if I don't, no, I get it. I didn't want to go home so I would just sit on the ground in the grocery store. And, but a pinch, it works. You've talked about this of like, it works in the moment, but long term it's going to call, I just don't want to ever take that quick fix. And I'm scared I will. And, you know, maybe being scared you will is the reason you won't. And I just, I don't want, you know, I'm like, this is probably sexist, but I'm having boy and I was kind of like, oh, thank God.

Like, I'm not going to model any... He may decide to be a girl, Whitney. Look, honestly, what's your gender? I have to ask him in utero. Is that how it wears that? No, you just have to wait your whole life. You'll be like, I'll use no pronouns for my child. No, no.

When you grow up poor, you're whatever gender, your older sibling is, dude. I don't, we don't... I don't... When you can afford to buy your own clothes, you can do whatever. But you, what was the relief? I felt this relief when I, I was like, God thought she can handle maybe will give her two children. But she can't deal with a girl.

Dude, I got two boys. The people I know, the women I know that have daughters, they are just in dog fights every day. I mean, it is just their daughters are biting them. I mean, they are in, look, it's like, they are designed and need to test in beguile. Very social creatures. Yes.

And just constantly challenge, you know, so I just was like. A lot of hormones also. Yep. Isn't it true that girls are born with every egg, they'll ever have? We don't talk about this enough. Yeah, you grow your eggs, like you grow your eggs when you're in your mama's belly. I'm just, I don't like this. Well, that's when the, because it, that's when the gametes are, we'll talk about it. Yeah, I just, it's, yeah, so I'm, but yes, but yes, I'm glad I'm having a boy at least first. Yeah. And, because I was like, oh, what if my weird eating, what if I have weird eating stuff

that I don't even know about? I mean, boys have it too, but yes. It's, a hundred percent. It's Now was like, sorry, I didn't mean that you were feeling relieved. I want you not to feel relieved. So my kid's going to be like keto? Oh, God. He's going to be doing like the carnivore diet? I love that I had of eating disorders now, but it's just like, no, but I think what you said about that sort of like notion of intimidation.

And, you know, there's, for some of us, women don't feel safe. You know, that intensity sometimes, even if we're intent. Because people a lot of times say that to me like, well, you're so intense. It's like, yeah, but that doesn't mean I want to engage with. an equal intensity human. Yeah, yeah. But I think that notion, like, for me, was also like, what would I do if I have this female person?

Like, I didn't like them in junior high. Yep, yep. Like, you know? Yeah, what if I have a mean girl? Right, but I do. I have two very talky boys. So it's kind of like, it's also intense. There was a book that really helped me hunt, gather parent that is kind of you just let

them go, you know, because I see all friends of mine, we go to the playground or whatever, going to playground without a kid. People don't like it. But I'm like, no, this is my friend. I'm with Oliver and his mom. And everyone's named Oliver now. And I see these parents who are like, don't be careful on the slide and be careful on the slide.

And you see the kid look back and be like, why did you bring me here? Bitch, why are you bring me here? That's what they want to say. Why are we here if it's such a death trap? You know, whereas you're supposed to let them go. And when they're actually about to be in danger, that's when you come and intervene.

And you kind of just let him go. Yeah. Well, some people even take it to the next level of like, if there is not mortal danger, if there is not critical danger, they will figure it out. So the kind of parenting you're talking about, we used to call it Rye, which is resources for wooden spoons. Yeah, like, sometimes Waldorf, yeah, I'm a Waldorf. Well, but Waldorf and Rye often go together.

And, you know, it's funny because a lot of people assume that if you're an attachment parent or if you're like a homebirth person or whatever, that your entire identity is talking about your children, you know, like constantly hovering over them. And the fact is for many of us, the notion of like letting them learn to have their own experience, which is something that many of us didn't experience. And I think especially, you know, and I don't know if people listening, you know, might relate to this. Sometimes when parents have deficiencies in one area, they'll try and overcompensate, right? And so sometimes you get too much attention or you get too much, you know, hovering. And that's then confusing for a child because what you get is this sort of like

fracturing, especially if there's borderline stuff. It's like, oh, we're good now? Oh, but we might not be good. And so I think for then when we become parent, and parenting without a map is another book that many of us read, which is really good. Also, I think, what is it, birthing from the inside out as a workbook that also like does a lot of inner child stuff. But the notion being that like, the notion being that like when when we become parents,

we don't want to repeat those patterns, right? We don't want to overdo it because I think that's what, I mean, Jonathan and I think can speak to this. A lot of people in, you know, in communities that are so focused on being present is because like they weren't so I'm going to be. Yep, yep, yep, yep. But you can also, you can over, smother, smother, smother, mothering is what I specialize. Which is, I don't know if this is a remix of Montessori, which I love the Montessori model, I've been studying it a lot. I'm sure there's something to take from all of these, let's be honest, and do it. works for you. Monessori is like, what if we have chairs and tables the size of children?

People were like, oh my God, we never thought we'd just put them at big tables and tell them like, you're just not big enough and that they would feel good about themselves. That's Montessori. So yes, Montessori really figured something out. And that, like, for example, like kids want to help. They just want to do what you're doing. But because we're busy or it's annoying that a kid is trying to help wash the dishes, we go, oh, you go play, I'm going to wash the dishes. So you're teaching the kid while mom works. It's your job to go Or that my work is separate from your existence. Totally. So you give them a job that's not so fake that they know that it's great and something that's safe and whatever.

Yeah. And just teach them, you know, with that so that they could build their self-esteem. Also, which is how for most of human history, children had to help. Correct. That's why people had them. Correct. They worked in factories. And my rule is I don't pay you allowance to be part of this family.

Yeah. Yes. Yes. And I wanted to ask you about the Finland reading model. in a second. But also kids, it's not your job to entertain your kid. It's not your job to like, don't take them to the ice capades if you don't want to go to that. Like, you know what I mean? Like, they feel it. They know. You know, so it's like letting them be alone and play. Also, you're not their playmate. And, and. I mean, you have to play with them. And it's good to play

with them. But also they sometimes are going to be bored. This is also a hot take in tolerating boredom. And my sponsor always says that I conflate boredom and serenity. That's the addiction thing. They have to be busy at all times. Alcoholics are the only people that think they should be having fun all the time. Tolerate the ability to be bored. You know? Like you're bored. My aunt would always say this. She'd be like, I go do something interesting. Go do a chore. There's a lot to do here. There's no, if you're bored, you're born. Cry in the backyard by yourself. That's what I would do when I was bored. Totally. And so, yeah, I forgot what I was going to say about that. But I was curious what you thought about the Finland reading model that kids over there, they don't learn to read until they're like six. because they, that's, that's Waldorf. Waldorf is also, yeah, Waldorf believes that we, we grow in seven year increments,

and the first seven years should be simply play, body play, movement, fairy tales, we're big on fairy tales. But, yeah, some of us, until the first teeth fall out is what the Steiner philosophy is. And I know people are going to be like, Steiner was a Nazi, because like people have a thing about everything. But in our experience that we did the first seven years like that. And literally the first week that, my older son lost his first tooth, he asked me to read him a sign. It's not that he didn't know what letters were. That was kind of the thing.

But I did find that that worked for us. My children eventually did learn to read. But they also learned to walk. They didn't walk when people wanted them to. And they would learn to walk. They learned to eat. They stopped breastfeeding, all the things. Neuroscience basis of it.

Because if they develop their focus first, they then can learn to read faster. Look, yes. And you'll find people who, were like, my 18 month old can recite the alphabet and they'll do it. Sounds like a loser. I'm often like, that's not a skill that I felt the need to emphasize, you know, for my kids. So yeah, we were a non-academics family. But again, everybody's going to do it their own way.

There's a, I think it was like in the Atlantic story to be that Portlandia sketch, the article, article. But that because women now have been in the workforce, have been CEOs and bosses and account managers and men are having kids now that they run their kid like a business. 100%. We bring the corporate rules into all of our interactions, which is why I could barely go to the park because it was the parent dynamics between each other that I could not tolerate. And God bless my ex-husband, he could go to the park and have a great time with them.

All I also have a problem. With the women at the park. Exactly. No, I also have a problem filtering any sound that is not, that I'm not. I am a misogy of a bad. Yeah. So, like, I will hear every conversation. If I hear one more person say, don't run with your juice box. Why?

What's going to happen? They're going to drop their juice box and then they'll stop running with their juice box. Anyway, that was me at the park. It's so hard to watch people be bad parents. As a future bad parent, I mean, this means a lot coming for me. I was in the grocery store and I couldn't control myself. This happened like a year ago. And there was this woman.

And I know, I don't know if she was a single mom. I don't know the situation. She could have just gotten a cancer diagnosis. you don't know. Sure. She was probably like, the kid was probably like four and I, she's pushing the cart and the kid kept grabbing because, you know, the general mills in these companies, they put the sugary cereal on the bottom row on purpose so that the kids see it and grab it and guilt the parents and try to get their diabetes fixed. And so this kid grabs the tricks or whatever it is, weird name for a child cereal realizing, grabs it, puts it in the carts, and then, the mom takes it out, puts it back. Kid grabs it, puts in the cart, mom puts it back. Kid grabs it.

And the mom goes, put it in the cart one more time. See what happens. Oh no. See what happens. Put in the cart. No, no, do it. Do it.

See what happens. And I see this kid like, yep, she's saying to do it. Yeah. But I think this is not what I should do. And I, it was like, I had Tourette's. I'm embarrassed that I did it, but I was like, oh no.

I was like, it's just, you said something. Like, it's the first time I've ever done something like this. You could get shot in the supermarket by that lady. And the, they, them, whatever it was. Well, you're going to take that kid home and that's your new kid. You want it too? You got to.

She would have it. And I was like, I just saw this kid be, and I obviously was projecting my own stuff and I saw myself in it because I saw this kid be so scared and confused of like, mom's going to have an explosion. And this mom probably has a lot of explosions. And I saw myself. And I was like, ma'am, I don't. don't think your child understands sarcasm.

I said, ma'am, though. I called her old. First thing I did was call her old. Ma'am. So what she said? I was like, I don't think your child understands sarcasmuch. As a sarcastic asshole myself,

and maybe I thought, oh my God, what if I become like, we just, you know, and she looked at me and she was so stunned. And then I was so stunned. And then I just was like, I'm sorry. Like, I'm so sorry. Ah, dude, I literally just like, turned. I was like, I left my cart.

I had so much shit in it. It was like, you know when you have a good cart? It's a good cart. I just like left the store. I was like, I am so sorry. I'm embarrassed and I just like got out of there. I mean, this inspires me. New show idea.

We go on the road. We find bad parents in the wild and we intervene. Well, I mean, I... You just have to bite your tongue a lot, I bet. You have to hold your tongue a lot. And here's the thing. I have a very hard time watching people hit their children in public. And it's like...

That's tricky. It's very hard. And the first time that I witnessed it in person, I was at Legoland, which is also a very happy place. It's the place that you take your child to give them a good time. And I will go ahead and say, I don't know what was going on. And I'll also go ahead and say, I am certain that there is never a reason to spank a two-year-old. Or to spank a four-year-old. There's no good reason to spank a child.

Well, I mean, it depends on what you define as work. but what I'm saying is much as I don't know what that father was going through, there is not a world in which that is ever okay. I don't know why it's worse if it's a father. Look, I didn't even, all of it's worse. And I remembered feeling like also as a public person, like, it's me putting myself out there in a different way, but like I, you cannot hit your dog. That's crazy.

I was about to say you can't hit your dog and you cannot hit your wife the way he was hitting that child. And that's really, really hard for me. And I will say I also feel like I did isolate a lot as a parent because of my inability to tolerate other people's bad behavior. Because if your kid is watching you be stressed out, that's not going to be fun anyway. And also, I'm not, I'm by no means perfect. And there have been times where, you know, I have angrily grabbed my child, you know, by the shoulder. I'm not going to say that I haven't and I feel horrible about it. I also am a big fan of your child should respect you and fear you a tiny bit,

but not that you're going to hurt them physically. Correct. Because then you're teaching them how they deserve to be treated by other people moving forward. This is the stuff we do like equine therapy and teaching kids like you're not allowed to touch me. You're not allowed to come into my space. Right. And so you're also just teaching them that this is okay for other people to treat them this way. If my mom treats me this way, you know.

And so, but I also see a. a big lack of respect between parents, kids and their parents now. I have friends whose kids call them by their first name. I'm like, what are you? My kids call me, sir. Do it, sir, ma'am. I still say sir and ma'am.

No, I'm very old school. I get in trouble for it all the time. Very old school. Which is why I started just saying sir to everybody. But because, yeah, it's like, white women specifically can't handle being called ma'am. They just, like, melt down in front of you. It's like, you say to Trader Joe's once.

Like, you can never go back to that location. But like I see I see people wanting to be friends with their kids Yeah And it's just like Your kids just not your friend Nope And if it's a difference between

I'm gonna grab this kid by the shoulder Say they know that they can't get in a car If you get in a car Right right And my dad did one parenting thing No I grabbed the shoulder for a different reason Yeah which was not okay Something that was like fascinating to me

And I would be curious your point of view on this When I was like 14 or something He said If you get in a car with someone who's been drinking or smoking weed, you'll never leave the house again until you graduate. But if you call me and tell me the truth,

I'll come get you and there's zero ramifications. Zero. Even if you've been smoking, even if you've been drinking. Yep. And one time I called him, I said, Dad, I'm in smoking weed. This person's been drinking. They're getting in a car.

Wow. I'm at this 7-11. He came and got me. Amazing. Zero punishment. And I think one of the things that I think they say, it's hunt, gather, parent is when your kid tells you something, I just broke the vase, you told me not to touch.

Instead of freaking out, you go, thank you for telling me. So that they always know, they don't have to. Then you freak out. And then we'll freak out in a second. That was mom's ashes. But we'll, so they'll never be afraid to tell you the truth. And they won't keep secrets from you. The hiding is the worst part.

The hiding is the worst part. Yes. But if you teach them, of course, if you freak out at them when they tell you, the truth or do something. Of course they're going to. Because then they learn that they're alone. And whatever they've done, they've learned that whatever they've done is irreparable. And so they've broken the connection. And then there's no real way back from that because you have no access. Jonathan and I each have a 15 year old. And so, and my older one is 18. So it's like a whole other

universe. But that's kind of one of the things that they say is like keeping the ability to have conversations open so that you are the person, you know, that they, in theory, can come to in that kind of situation. I really like that story that you just told us. My dad was the one who went, if you're going to smoke weed, just do it in my house. He's like, I know you're going to do it. It's not as much fun when they're. Well, because then it takes the charge off of it, you know, it's like, but it was if you're, I know you're going to do it. Right. He would, I mean, maybe this was bad parenting, but he would like, buy us beer. He's like, I know, I don't want you to go ask some weirdo guy or get a fake ID or go steal it. Like, I know you're going to do this. Right. So.

like, did you ever feel like you might be an addict? I'm sorry. I'm not trying to say that you are. I'm saying, did that ever occur to you in life or did you not get that disease? I fully identify as an addict. Fully identify as an addict. We're just addicted to different chemicals. Right, right.

Addiction. No, but you never. Adrenaline perfection. No, but I'm saying you never were like, oh, I, like, drinking is also my drug. You were able to drink. Mine was, I was, I was, when you got the eating disorder thing, that kind of in a weird way, you're like, well, wine has galleries. But your addiction ends up being control.

So I'm going to control and caretake the addict. Got it. And doing drugs makes me not feeling control. And I'm not going to be as perfect as everything. But when my mom passed this past January, I did start smoking weed. This was my first time being addicted to a substance that was external. And I also, in L.A., everyone just like is on mushrooms, like all day. Apparently they are all microdosing, not me.

They think if it's a plant, it, like, wants the best for you. And so everyone's, like, doing mushroom chocolates all day. I'm like, I just, okay, yeah, I just lost my mom. This is a good time to just eat mushrooms out of a candy bar that looks like a wanka bar. I mean, the graphics alone on these mushroom bars are such a red flag. It's like, why is there a spaceship on it? This can't be good. And so I was not keeping track of the smoking weed.

It was like, I'm taking it to go to sleep. And then it was like, well, it's 8 o'clock. I should just smoke it now so that I'm. You know, it's four o'clock, but I'm not getting in a clock. And I found myself with the one too many, a million, not enough. It was working. All the stuff I had heard in the open A.A. rooms or the double winners meetings of like, it made me feel normal.

I was like, I can just pick up the phone when someone calls. Like, I don't have to be like, should I pick up now? How was it? Like, I just, I was like, this is magical. And then I started doing the microdosing mushrooms. And then Dr. Drew actually pointing this out to me, I had a manic episode. I was. That's a who?

Didn't it was a real blast. So I was doing the wheat. Also, California wheat is wild. Like, it's bonkers, you know? But it's like if you get a joint, you're like, I have to finish what's on my plate. That's what I was taught. So it's like, I didn't know when to stop because it was the disease that tells you don't have a disease, but it's the disease that says like, like I would take an edible.

And when I take an edible, my brain goes, well, that was a dud. Like, it hadn't, I'm so impatient. It takes 40 minutes to kick in. So I'd be like, oh, I just take another one because it cooked weird. Like I would just like make up the just, you know. And so I was doing the microdosing mushrooms and smoking weed. And I knew something was up when I scheduled a call with a maritime lawyer to look for the Scientology ship. Nope.

Because there's kids on the boat. You know you should stop using when. Here's what I'll say, though. It's the, he explained what a manic episode was. Because I was like, my mom had died, my parents had died. They had been in hospitals for 10 years. all my bandwidth was caretaking them. So all of a sudden I had all this energy in time.

And there's, you know, the mushrooms. I'm sure there's also like a weird relief, like a sad relief, but it's also a relief relief. A huge relief. When the qualifier, yeah. Yeah, well, they don't have to suffer anymore. I don't have to worry anymore. This nightmare is kind of over.

So I was like, oh, all the things that I've always wanted to do or I have all this energy to actually use my whatever platform or whatever to help other people. And I'm going like, oh, the, we got to go after Purdue because they poison the water in Appalachia. And I come from... Wait, how did we get there? And then the Saudis.

I was with Nikki Glazer the other day. She was like, yeah, I knew in January, I knew something was off. You kept talking about the Saudis? Okay, so was this like one night? No, this was like a couple weeks. Ah. And I was just very... I'm already a pretty compassionate, empathic person who wants to solve big problems.

And I was like, oh, there's kids on the Scientology boats. let me just talk to this lawyer. We'll find out where they are because, you know, there's no law and merit. Let me just talk to this guy. It felt like a very obvious thing to do at the time. And then I'm explaining it to people. And I'm like, oh, do you want to jump on this FaceTime with me? And people would be like, oh, I'm good. And I'd be like, well, how can you not care about? Like, how can you not want to solve this problem? And Dr. Drew explained a manic episode is when you think people aren't listening to you. Correct. And well, your brain is working faster than their ears are. And I'm like, we have to clean up the water in Flint. This hasn't been solved yet.

You found a, you found a thing to fix. Let's just do, but the grandiosity and the whatever narcissism or delusion that I can actually. How long was this episode? It was probably like two, three weeks. Oh, I would say. Okay. And you were still, also

pot can trigger mania, especially if we're using it to control paranoia. Yeah, so you'll get some of that grandiosity. And it's elevating. And it's this tricky thing where you're like, Well, everything I would say is true. Yeah.

Like, it's not like I'm like, daily in behind you. No, but it's about the urgency, the frequency, the intensity. So then do we not do those things anymore? There was like some grief too. I probably just need to have a good cry. Yeah.

Probably had to have a good cry. Um, so that's a part of my resume in these days. But yeah, so, but to answer your question about like, I can get addicted to substances. Right. So do we stop with the candy bars?

Oh, we're done. We're done with all that. That was an experiment. Yeah, we have the data. It's a wrap. It's definitely a wrap on that. And, well, it's interesting because, I mean, look, I'm obviously pregnant, not doing anything at the moment except, like, folic acid, let's go.

But there are a couple, like, you know, I don't know, down the line, like, I've tried ayahuasca, didn't do much for me. I'm sure there's a lot of, I'm not trying to make fun of all these plant medicines that everyone loves so much these days. It just wasn't a match for me. I had also just gone up Earth Control, Cold Turkey. I went off Prozat, cold turkey. So I was just neurochemically like...

Did you go to Peru? Didn't go to Peru. Went to Van Nuys. Went to the comedy store. Oh, for the ayahuasca. It was like one night? That was in upstate New York. Because I don't mean to cross-talk,

but Jada Pinkett Smith in her book, she did a four-night Ayahuasca journey. And why doesn't she take Smith off her name if they haven't been married for seven years? I don't know that guy. I didn't ask her if that came up in her. I was a dream, but you did one, like, one. I did two nights. Two nights. The first night, I think he was, did you know the people?

I, no. No, Braxton Hicks. Okay. Just strangers? No, it was just me and the person I was with at the time. I like that. I like a one-on-one I-a-waska. Yeah. If I'm going to be puking and shitting in a bucket, it's going to be someone that, you know. You don't want an audience for that. I'm good. I'm good. So, I think Chelsea Handler did a episode where she went. That's right. That's right. Okay, so you did two nights? The first night, I got to be honest, like, maybe I was just being a comic about it. I was like, this is power of suggestion. Like, this isn't real. Also, like, sitting on a pillow for eight hours with or without this drug, I'm going to have some epiphanies.

Like, being without your phone for eight hours, you're already going to, you know, so I was kind of like, mm. And then he's like, but did you feel sick? You did you purge? I peoped a couple times. I purged because I didn't follow the diet. I didn't do the note. Oh, because that's like a thing, people, the diet that they tell you. I would literally rather be in pain forever than not drink coffee for two days.

Okay, fine. This is, you know, fell. We all have our limits. But then you're kind of going like, okay. To what lengths will you go for your recovery? If you want to know about your addiction, try to stop doing it. That's right. So the plant already started speaking to me.

What happened on night two? Night two, I cried a lot. Okay. And came up with some good ideas for jokes. This sounds like a very labor-intensive way to cry. I'd come up with some of my good ideas. And like I wasn't, like, the person I was with was like in the like, like, and I was just like, I'm not, but some people genetically do not react. Matt Gutman, who we had on this podcast, he literally, he was like, he's like, I felt all the sickness and none of the progress.

And purging, there's something to be said there. Maybe it was purging, muscle trauma, sure, but I did have like an hour where I went, I didn't hallucinate. I didn't see gremlins. I didn't see, I didn't see, anything, I like to say it as I didn't hallucinate, but I did stop hallucinating. So I think my thing is I tend to hallucinate in life. This person doesn't like me. This person is mad at me. Mentally. I'm never going to work again. Da-da-da-da. And I did have a couple moments of clarity that was like, this person doesn't not, this person isn't thinking about me at all. You know what I mean? It's like we're obsessed what other people think about us. So we're just not thinking about us. It was like, that person's not mad at me. That person's 50. And if they are, bye. You know. And like, so I did get like some clarity on stuff like that.

And then I had sort of a weird thing happen that I don't want to be so dismissive that I'm not bringing up this kind of cool thing, which is my dad had just died. Did he come to you? He, so there's these things my dad used to say. Okay. And they drove me nuts. He used to say, like, trust no one. That was his mantra. We had a song when we were kids.

It was before we got out of the car. He'd go, who do you trust? and we go, no one. And you go, who do your trust? And we go, Daddy. I told that once in a ACA meeting and everyone went, you know when you're able to like

make people that have seen it all, be like, damn. And then he would say, you know, everyone's either a liar thief or a worm. They're all just liars, thieves, and worms. And after the ayahuasca session, I cried about him and sort of saw, and I sort of did have this little

epiphany, like, because I do, like, wolf therapy. There's a place of a wolf connection. You know, it's kind of this cool animal therapy thing. And you study how the, the pack works. Alpha starts preparing the beta to be the alpha at like three years old. Their death is not scary to them. It is something they just prepare for. They accept. It's like the whole idea is that you are better than the generation that came before you. So it's like, my dad was such a this, but I'm a this. It's like, well, that's how it's supposed to be. The third iPhone is supposed to be better than the second one. Everything's supposed to be better. So how can I be me? he wasn't him, whatever.

I had sort of just like a good integral. Like, this is it. It's passing of the, like, I'm becoming the alpha is what I started thinking. And the next day, I was talking to my dude. And I was like, yeah, because everyone's just a liar thief and a worm. I was like, whoa, that was weird. And maybe I just melted some resistance to who he was or had some acceptance for who he was and was able to not go like, well, he always said this.

And he always said this. I was able to just kind of go like, oh, yeah, of course I'm going to have some things in me from him. And I can just allow them and go like, whose voice was that? That was weird. And maybe there's a lot of voices in my head that aren't mine, positive and negative. So I can just go like, oh, I'm not an idiot. I'm not, I'm not stupid. I'm not ugly. I'm not this. I'm not unlovable. Like, those are just like voices that I heard. It's like a shitty radio station in the back. It actually goes back to what you said earlier, which is we're all programmed or we're all doing what we're programmed to do until we reprogram ourselves. So it sounds like, it was like a software update. It felt like a software update for my brain kind of thing.

So the guy, just why wouldn't I be running on the old software? Well, the biggest software update for your brain is going to be when you have a child. And I'm very eager to see how that. What am I in for, man? No, it's, it's going to be great. It's, you know, it's very healing. And I'm sure it will be fantastic. And I look forward to being, you know, called if you need me help with anything.

I definitely, oh, yeah. I won't take your kid to the park, though. I'm against fentanyl unless it's when I give birth, in which case I'm very pro. Wait, let's take back what I said about fentanyl. Can you guys send it to me? But, yeah, I just don't want to tear. I'm definitely worried about that. I don't know why.

What are you hopeful for and what type of in-utero programming are you doing? That's a really good question. Are you playing classical music for the baby? Some people do that. You don't have to do it. I'm not doing any of that shit. I'm so sorry. And it's not, I play a lot of podcasts.

I listen to a lot of podcasts, you know, so they'll be, they'll be hearing a lot of stuff. I'm really, my thing is, I'm taking it really easy. And there's a couple people in my life that I love, but are mercurial and cause adrenaline every now and then. And I'm really just trying to not make adrenaline and cortisol while I'm pregnant. So I'm leaving 30 minutes early. I was sitting outside for 25 minutes in front of your place because I was just, just like I'm not going to, and that's also a big ACA thing. You don't want to rush. Yeah, a big ACA thing is you don't

leave a buffer. So if you have to be somewhere at four and it takes half an hour, you'll leave at 3.30. And the program is going, but what if we left at 415 and allowed for needing to pee and traffic and all this other stuff? So it's like, it's sort of little things like that. I'm like, if I'm going to go somewhere, I'm going to leave an hour earlier than I need to because I'm going to get there. I'm going to have to go to bathroom. I'm going to have to drink water. You know what I mean? Like I don't want to be rushing around and setting my kid up for like adrenal addiction. That's a big one. That's a big I, you know what? I'm lying. I have a playlist of whale sounds. I've been listening to whale sounds. Yes. You know, because babies speak sonar. The dolphin births, I really want to have a dolphin birth. What's a dolphin birth? It's where, because dolphins know when a woman is pregnant, they'll, like swim up and you can give birth in the water and the dolphins are like, oh my. Yeah.

I mean, I'm a hippie, but I can know about that. I gave birth on the floor out there. And so I was a lot of whale sounds I've been doing. And I'm not someone, this is kind of an ACA thing too, where I never like listened to music very much just when I'm home. It just distracts me a little bit. It's a program thing? Well, not a program. It's just sort of like, you know, some.

You mean constantly needing stimulation like that? Not thinking to do something fun. It's not occurring to you that like things can be fun and life can be fun. And like while you're doing chores, you can like play me. music. Like I just, there was, I grew up in a very austere kind of, yeah, I just, I'm in the car and it doesn't occur to me to put music on. Oh, so putting music on is a positive thing. Or I'll go, I need to get smarter, so I need to listen to podcasts instead. We're always studying. We're always getting smarter. Instead of being like, why don't I just listen to the dirty dancing soundtrack,

like an idiot? And my brain goes, you're wasting time. They go, no, not or not. So there's a little bit of that conversation. Joy, you're trying to find joy. What is this of you speak? So I have a playlist of Hans Zimmer Like soundtrack I love soundtrack Like the Dunkirk soundtrack So like that I love like scores

And so I listen to a lot of that Lyrics just distract me a little bit My brain starts to want to write jokes And if I'm listening to old music I'm like oh this is what we were programmed for Now I have to write a joke about You know this garbage song from the 90s No wonder we're like this

Like it just makes my brain a little too over so I always look for like music that doesn't have lyrics necessarily. So you're resetting nervous systems slowing down. And I've been doing sunlight. I go out in the sunlight. It's maybe more of an absence of things than presence of things. I've really cut down on using cosmetics and sunscreens and a lot of shit that I was putting on my body and face that I, you know, thought was speaking Jonathan's love language.

That I thought it was self-care, but turns out I was just like dousing myself with chemicals. and the way really like honoring what I'm craving, it's actually been being pregnant is so healing from disordered eating because your body is like today you're having seven blueberries and 22 strawberries and six eggs and two spoonfuls of brown sugar from the thing. And like that's where you're eating today and you're like sick. So it's like kind of radical surrender on that front. Can I offer something that's,

we've never done on this podcast, and there's a little bit out there, but we've never also had a, I don't think we've ever had a pregnant person on the podcast either, haven't we? Please. I don't know, just based on everything you shared, it feels, and being the third kid and maybe potentially being questioned, if you were intended, it feels like putting your hands on your little boy and just saying, you are loved, you are a gift. He wants you to do a positive affirmation on the podcast.

This isn't going to make me cry. I haven't even met him yet. How do we know he's lovable? I just think in terms of ancestral traditions and curses and passing it down, you know, break that cycle of questioning. You know, you manifested him. You knew that he was coming when you were 40, and it sounds like he needs to hear that.

He just did a little kick. Is Jonathan the father? We didn't know it. Okay, should we tell her now? This is a weird time to tell him. tell her. Oh, oh God. I'm going to try to not make a joke or be silly about it because that's my instinct when things are being vulnerable or might embarrass myself. Do I look down at it or did I however, in your mind's right and whatever feels good.

Little buddy, you are loved. How do I'm like, what's my grade? He is loved. He is a gift and he is wanted. And can I tell you, it's so interesting because now I'm thinking about the things. I'm trying to be very careful not with only what I put in my body, but not in a way that's like, I can't eat that. Like, some stressing about the thing you should need is worse than just eating the freaking thing or doing the thing is I've been watching a lot of like older movies that I loved when I was a kid.

And I labyrinth is my favorite movie. Oh. So I have been doing a lot of David Bowman. you remind me of the babe, the babe with the power. So I kind of call him the babe with the power. And we dance around to Labyrinth quite a bit. That's sweet. Well, we wish you only good things.

And your new special just came out. So want to remind people where can they see that? This is, I did one on Netflix a year ago. This is actually on OFTV. Only fans don't panic. It's not porn. Although I might live stream my birth on there because it didn't happen here.

But OFTV, It is completely free. It's not porn. This is the section of their streaming service. That is, it is, you know, comedy. They're doing a ton of uncensored comedy. So there's certain places right now that just they're going to go, can you cut that joke about trans people?

Can you cut that joke about the vaccines? I do joke about my pregnancy being a vaccine injury. It's like in most networks are paid for by Big Pharma. I'm not a politician. You know, you can decide if I'm right or wrong. But so this was kind of the special that was like, this is all the stuff that I'm too scared to put other places. and it's completely free.

I think comedy should be free. I don't think you should have to pay five bucks or ten bucks or whatever for it. So yeah, OFTV.com. It's their first stand-up special that they're doing, but they're going to do a ton more because there's kind of not a place right now for sort of more middle-range comics. Like some of us are very lucky that we can get Netflix specials, you know? But there's so many comics right now, so many different voices out there that aren't big

enough to get the Netflix special. But the, you know, Comedy Central went away. There used to be these half hours. There used to be these shows where people could do 15 minutes. Those have just kind of gone away. So they're really stepping in and elevating, paying, giving exposure to sort of that middle class of comics that, you know, haven't quite ascended to that level yet. Because the system that made, you know, the comics that you're friends with me that made us known, like that just doesn't exist anymore. Comedy Central doesn't exist.

The Tonight Show, you know, doesn't have the impact it used to, you know. So how are comics going to tour and make money? get more known if platforms don't start giving them special. So OFTV is doing that. And OFTV.com. It's right there. There's no catch. Awesome. Also, I notice you have a safety pin tattooed on this wrist. I'm hoping that the next time I see you, there'll be a diaper pin on the wrist. Do we still remember when, okay, we should feel great about our parenting. People used to put safety pins on their children. Yeah, well, some of us still did if we clothed diaper. My aunt said something the other day.

She was like, they used to keep babies in drawers. That's right. Dress her drawers. So your kid's going to be fine. Like, what? Thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure to talk to you. And your podcast, good for you, is available.

And thank you so much. What a pleasure to talk to you. I'm such a fan and I'm an honor to be here. Thank you. So much fun. I like someone who likes to label all the things like I do. I love it. Like, she went through every.

everything and she knows it and she names it and she sees it in other people. I love it. Had a great time. There's a lot also that just came up in that episode, like, in each one of those chunks, I was like, you slowed it down when you were talking about sexual abuse. And I think it's important to say that there can be a lot of uncomfortable situations that may not read to what someone typically thinks of as quote unquote abuse that are awkward or strange or cross boundaries in a way that leave an impression on people and our understanding of what constitutes either capital T or lower key T trauma is expanding and people

are realizing that they have had experiences that do impact them and a lot of people have had this as part of their experience. Yeah, I think probably, you know, this might be a topic. I'm sure people would probably really get a lot out of us talking about this. It's a very heteronormative notion that sexual abuse looks like penetrative sex between an adult and a child or between two people who should not be having those interactions. There's a very, very large, variety of situations, interactions, boundary crossings, and ambiguities, especially if we're talking about an adult and a child that can literally lead to all of the features, all of the trauma that we normally would associate with sexual abuse in the way that many of us were conditioned.

to think about it, which again is actually heteronormative in its definition. So probably for another time, but really a delight to talk to Whitney Cummings. Follow us at Bialik Breakdown. And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's my and Bialyx breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience Ph.D. or two. One fiction. And now she's going to break down.