Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Why Judy Greer Stopped Drinking, Her Honest Feelings about GLP-1s & Why She Loves Playing the “Best Friend”

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

Judy Greer (Arrested Development, Marvel’s Ant-Man, 13 Going on 30, Halloween Kills) and Mayim relive the now legendary "Wil Wheaton fiasco", reminisce about THE BIG BANG THEORY (the role Judy continues to be recognized for most today) and their shared love for pickles and Taylor Swift!   Judy reveals her powerful journey through perimenopause, from her symptoms and what encouraged her to seek help, to hormones and what has worked for her. She opens up about her body image & self-esteem issues, her thoughts on GLP-1 drugs (Ozempic, Mounjaro, Wegovy) and its effect on the body positivity movement. Judy discusses using alcohol as a reward and to ease social anxiety, sobriety and what it’s taught her about herself, her codependent tendencies, religion's role in processing grief, and how she finds ways to decompress after a particularly traumatic acting role. Mayim and Judy bond over their love of Taylor Swift! Judy recounts her Eras Tour experience and how Folklore made her a “Swiftie.”   PLUS, she explains why her mom got fired from being a nun and why playing the "best friend" is her go-to role. Don't miss this raw and inspiring chat!   Check out ERIC LARUE in theaters on April 04, 2025!: https://www.fandango.com/eric-larue-2025-239640/movie-overview   BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I want people to f***ing be happy and feel good about themselves. But I also noticed until this drug became part of the mainstream, we were working so hard on accepting bodies of all shapes and sizes and ages. It just took a systemic issue that we were working on. We don't have to work on that anymore. It's another way to separate communities economically from each other. So now you're seeing another class of people able to achieve this standard of beauty. that we have been trying to tell ourselves doesn't exist.

You're perfect the way you are, but you'd be more perfect if you just took this drug. Take this and you'll be skinny because skinny's better, no matter what. And by the way, I feel that way, because I was brought up to feel that way, because we did talk about weight in my house. I'm the only child and my mother was never not on a diet. She was never not trying to lose weight.

That's in my cells of my body. I can look at myself in the mirror, and I have two very different feelings about what I see in it. Like, you are fat and old, and they, like, you look fucking awesome. Like, you look great. And so maybe you have to buy a bigger size of jeans, but like, that is okay. Before we dive into today's episode, I'm going to ask you to do something very quick, very easy, but super helpful. I'm going to ask you to hit the subscribe button. You see it? Go get it. Hit the subscribe button. It just takes a second, but it means a lot to us.

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Hi, I'm I'm Vialik. I'm Jonathan Cohen. And welcome to our breakdown. We have a fun one today. We've got a really fun one. today. It would take me forever to read the bio of the actress that we're going to be talking to today. But I have to say, it's the hardest we've laughed. It's the hardest Valerie and Olivia have laughed. I could even tell from the back of Olivia that she was laughing hard. We're going to be talking to

Judy Greer, and we're going to talk to her about acting. You probably know her from, I don't know, 13 going on 30 arrested development I loved her in Ant-Man she's also in the descendants she was in an episode of Big Bang Theory but Judy's going to open up about menopause about sobriety

about beauty about aging about acting about acting her choice of her movie that's coming out April 4th Eric Leroux this is a really funny fantastic conversation about so many aspects honestly of the human experience

that even though she's an actress who has over 200 credits to her name, she goes through a lot of the same things that so many of us think about and are experiencing, but has a really, really great lens to frame it. It's such a pleasure to welcome in person. Judy Greer. Break it down.

Welcome. Welcome to the Breaktown. Thanks for being here in person. I'm happy to be here in person. We have a funny story to tell you. Oh. About minutes before you got here. The very first time this has ever happened So I was waiting for you because we're excited And I was like, you're going to be here

And like I want someone by the door And I was late No, but wait for it Okay Someone else was on time for what they thought was their recording time today Was it a man? It was because I saw the man It was a man

It was a famous man I thought the man looked familiar So the man The man was a famous man But is he still famous? He's still famous? But what I'm going to say is, I think, even funnier and shows that the brain just wants to recognize patterns. Because as I stood at the top of the driveway waiting for Judy Greer, what I saw was a man.

And my brain was like, did Judy cut her hair? Wait for it? Then I was like, Judy's looking a little masculine. I need to look at our notes for today. Wait for it. Judy looks a hell of a lot like Will Wheaton. And it was Will Whiten, who... Yes, it was.

Yeah. We're recording with Will Wheaton a different day, but Will Wheaton thought that he was recording right now. But just the fact that that's where my brain went. I wasn't like, why is Will Wheaton here? He must have the day wrong. I was like, Judy Greer must have really changed since I saw her last. Judy looked so much like Will Wheaton.

Oh, my God. That's so funny, because I thought... I saw him. I saw him come and go. because I parked farther up the street. It wasn't his turn. It's your turn. I know what kind of car he drives. If you guys want to know, I can totally out him.

He was also like, I have to get out of here because he's such a big Judy Greer fan. He was going to get crazy. He said, you won't like what happens to Will Wheaton in front of Judy Greer, which is like a little bit of Hulk reference. Well, he's not probably much of a fan anymore because I was eating a cookie, carrying a giant bag of water, huffing and puffing. We could have had a double. That's what I said. When I realized what was happening, that's what I shouted like Will Wheaton's here, not Judy Greer. And they were like, let's do it together.

I was like, no, that's. Oh, my God. What's he going to do now? He's got two hours. He lives close. Wow. And he will come back another day. But Jonathan was like, that's where your brain went.

I said, yeah, Judy Greer must have gotten a haircut. She's looking a little masculine and she looks a hell of a lot like Will Wheaton. Maybe, you know, there's. You don't look anything like Willeyer's. No. We could probably play siblings, though, don't you think? No. No? Sorry, it's so weird. That's... We're glad you're here.

I feel like, though, here's what I think might need to happen is that I might need to show up on his day. Oh, my God. That would be amazing. What's up? Next Tuesday, if you're free. Because that would be hilarious. We could FaceTime you in, just like to say hello. I mean... I want to get his reaction. I want to see what happens. Oh.

Well, he saw me. I saw him. I just was like spacing out because I had to. He has not texted me about it because he probably doesn't want to bother me while we're recording. But I'm sure he'll text me later and be like, I saw her. Oh, my God. What would have been funnier is if Judy Greer showed up on Will Wheaton Day and would my brain have said, Will grew his hair? Yeah, Will looks like Judy Greer.

I don't know. I don't know. We'll never know. I mean, actually. Because now do you feel like, even though this has. happen one time, will you always be wondering if it's the right person when they walk up the driveway? We always be like, I need to brace myself. Because it could be Will Wheaton.

It could be Will Wheaton or anyone else. Like the one thing that happens becomes the thing that always happens. Yes. But it only happened once. But this would be certainly an unusual one. Yeah. I mean, the sliding doors moment for me is, did the universe bring us together to do a combo podcast? Right.

We turn that gift away. We could have broken the internet with Trudy Greer and Will we're in one room. It's just an unexpected pairing. Like, no one would have been like, how do we bring these two people together? I don't feel like it's not unexpected. I feel like Will and I, we're destined to meet and it's not today. But it's going to happen. And we're both going to have some funny story to tell each other.

I mean, if you would have been three minutes earlier and he would have been two minutes later in his arrival, he's always on time. Like he's a very, no, that's not what I meant. That was a hard cut. No, no. What I meant was like Will prides himself on like being very punctual. Yeah. But like if he had just been like a couple minutes late, it would happen. I also believe it or not pride myself and being somewhat punctual. However, on a long form podcast without any food in my belly, I think I would have fainted. So are we surviving on your gas station cookie right now?

16 grams of protein in that bob cookie. By the way, I was so happy that he had that. Because it could have been a Snickers bar. But I wouldn't have had a Snickers bar, but like. Or a hardboiled egg. From a gas station. Sometimes they have the hardboiled egg. No one can afford those anymore. What are you talking about?

You're crazy. Not even the gas station. What is this Bel Air? What are we the 1% buying eggs? Insanity. At a gas station. No less. Do you think that was the first place the eggs went?

It's a pickle and an egg. Where they were like, no more eggs. No one buys them anyway. And now we can't afford them. I think the eggs that weren't getting used up from the supermarket are repackaged and sent to the gas station in little Ziploc baggies. And if not, the egg, it could have been the hot dog that has been there for a week and a half. I saw that hot dog. I saw that hot dog.

Or pickle in a bag, which I think is a big upgrade. Have you ever had one? I have had a pickle in a bag. Disappointing. Really? Yeah. I've also had the... It seems like the bag, the pickle juice would just spill everywhere.

Do you dump it first? How do you do it? No, you just got to sort of do like a balancing act. Then you dump it. But it's kind of like the packages of olives too, you know? It's like it gets like it's mushy. It's not it's not right. What motivated you to get that pickle in a bag? Well, funny you should ask. My favorite food. Salt. My favorite food is pickles. Pickled anything. Not anything. I don't love pickled cauliflower. I'll just say it right now. I love pickles. I love all kinds of pickles. Yeah, but like when Judy's Greer. So the gas station. Yeah, but Judy Greer's going to the gas station and she's getting food because, like, she needs that 16 grams of protein. Oh, that's not what a pickle does. No. You're going to the gas station just for, like, a little treat.

A snackeroo. Well, instead of potato chips, it satisfies the salt desire. I worked with one nutrition helper once who told me to eat pickles instead of potato chips. I have two more things to say about pickles. That was one. So three total. Two is that my husband grows cucumbers and makes refrigerator. prickles.

Interesting. And they're not in bags. They're not in bags. We reuse. Spiced or whole or speared? The spears. Do they have like, sorry, do they have the 45 degree angle? It gives like a wheel.

I think so. Okay. But they have angles, but I'm not going to go 45 degrees. Okay, got it. And cucumbers that you grow to make pickles are ugly. Yeah. And they have a lot of like skin tags on them. Barnacles.

Yeah, barnacles. Better word. And so, yes, but he's really proud of his pickles. He even printed up stickers to put on the, and we give him away a lot. Second, so that was two. And then three is, have you been when in New York City to Pickle City Books? In, on the lower east side, there's a bookstore where it's still there. Yeah.

I found it. I found it. Just kidding. It's still there. But I accidentally walked by it and I was like, oh, my husband would love this. And then I went back with him to New York City and took him there. But if you give them books for free, they will give you a jar of pickles. And we went on our second from our last day there, so we didn't take them up on that

because of not wanting to waste the pickles because that's a lot of pickles to eat in one night. Although it could be done. Says me. Says me. Not says you. or my husband. But yeah, so Pickle City Books is the best pickle book store in, I think they claim to be in New York City, the best pickle book store in New York City, which then led us around the corner to the pickle. Like, there's a pickle store around the corner because they sent us there at Pickle City Books.

And then we like, there's, you know, they have. Vats. Yeah. Yeah, we got those vats of pick. We each picked a pickle. And they were so nice. They were closing. And they was like, you can just have them.

And I'm like, well. What kind of pickles does he make? Does he make like a classic dill? Does he do them spicy? It's a spicy dill. He puts jalapenos in. Oh, wow. They're spicy.

That is not a Jewish pickle. No. It just became a Gentile pickle. It is also not a Midwestern pickle. That's true. It is not for me. Yeah. Speaking of city pickles, the bookstore, when it claims to be the best pickle bookstore in the city, what's the competition?

Well, I think that's the joke. Yep. Although maybe there's another. one. I would like to believe that there are two or three other smaller mom and pop pickle stores that just can't compete. Do we feel like Will Wheaton would want in on this? Because the four of us could order, we could start our own pickle bookstore. He would love that. Yeah. Sounds like a very well thing. We're in the valley. We're in the valley. Yeah. So that's my three. Those are my three. Those are your pickle facts. Yeah. Miami Alex's breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like,

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Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention my and Biala's Breakdown to help support the show. I have a funny pickle fact. I mean, if I had known. We should have brought your husband's pickle brand to promote. There will be some dropped off when it's time. When it's time.

Right now the pickle garden is growing romaine. But when the cucumbers, no, when the cucumbers go back in, definitely. Oh, I would love some. You're getting them. In my family, there's a Heinz pickle pin that has been passed down. I'm the second generation. I don't know why my mother had a Heinz pickle pin, but she's a quirky dresser and like kind of a funky New York lady.

And it's been passed down. I have a Heinz pickle pin. It looks like a pickle pin, and it says Heinz. And it's like a plastic weird little pickle pin. This goes back to that question you asked me the other day. Jonathan thinks I'm special because I have quirky things that I like. That does make her special.

I have a collection of feathers and he thinks that's inappropriate. No, I don't think so. What do you use your feathers for? Do you have to use them for something to make it not weird? No. Maybe. Like if I were like, if I were waving sage, you could use a feather for that. But that's not what I do that for.

Do you use them at all or do you just look at them? I like them. That's nice. It's a collection. Yeah, yeah. She is a collection of animals. bones. Oh, that's different, too. Okay. I mean, in a way, feather is sort of like an outside animal bone. That's right. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. We had a gentleman on

who had a very unique brain. He can recite 50,000 digits of pie. Oh, yeah, that guy. That kind of special. Yeah. I think I've heard of this guy. There's many of that. Okay, then I've heard of guys. You've heard of guys. He just has facts. He can pull any facts. backed up. He has just an amazing memory, amazing brain. He's a magician. He does magic tricks. He's a plethora of skills. And Maim and I were reflecting on the uniqueness of the conversation. And she turns to me over a meal. And she says, you know, do you know anyone like that? And I just kind of look at her and smile. And she was shocked. How many? I can't do any digital. 3.14. That's it.

Stop there. It's a different special. Yeah, there's different specialties. You still have a very special brain. But apparently... This is an intervention. Well, it's time. He was early.

I do. I told him to wait. I told him not to come up until I parked my car. And yet. We were so close to making a difference. I do have a special brain. But you know what? do have a very special brain.

This, um... You should see her read a book. Let's do it. No. Stop it. We could time her. It's like this. It's like, she sits down and she's like, uh-huh.

I think he's exaggerating. No. Wait, what's... Okay, yes, I understand this. Oh, that took total sense based on the framework. 15 minutes later, she's done the book with dog ears, quotes, memorized passages. And she's like, Jonathan, let me tell you all about it. I'm like, I joke.

I just have to wave it in front of her. He's exaggerating a little bit. I am so jealous. I mean, only slightly, though. Do you have a photographic memory? So I have, um, you can stop. Do you, um, what's your retention like? Very high.

Fuck. Well, for certain, for certain things, you can't. For certain things. Just not in the cold open. For certain things. Are we still in the cold open? Okay, good. You have, so retention.

Okay, so I am a fast reader. I don't have a special brain. My retention is poo covered in pee. Okay. Like I read so fast I get so excited and then it's just all gone. What about scripts though? But what if you read more slowly? Does it stay more or is it the speed or that's just?

I could maybe try. My husband is dyslexic and he reads very slowly and he remembers so well. Everything. I'm the same way. Yeah. Okay. So, and he remembers so much his retention is so much. better than mine, I think, because he reads really slowly.

And I'll just, like, race through a book. And I'm like, ha, it was so great. I'm sobbing. It was so good. On to next. But it's like, it's like gone. And then he'll read the same book and be like, oh, my gosh, when the brothers were fighting in their bedroom. And I'm like, no idea what you're talking about.

He's currently reading The Beasting by Paul Murray, which I read like a year and a half ago, not to brag. But he's like, oh, the beginning with the sisters and the teenage girl. not the teenage girl and her friend and I'm like, oh, that seems like a part I would have liked. I'm curious, I'm fascinated by this area because, like, do you remember the emotion that you felt around the book?

Yeah, that's what sticks with you. Yes, the emotion sticks. I feel like I interrupted you. No. Well, I was thinking about script because we have to memorize those and hold them for a distinct amount of time. Like seven to ten hours.

It's too much for you. Gone. Just gone. Do you prep a script beforehand? Or are you like an on the day when they give you the sides? It depends on, well, now at my advanced age, I must prepare in a way that I didn't. Oh, I used to be able to get away with not. Because of being a lady, I'm in hair and makeup for like about five hours in the morning.

But I go and sit in hair and makeup for like one and a half to two hours. So that used to be plenty of time. And I would just like learn my lines. because you're really looking at like five to ten pages a day and so much of it's stage direction. So it's like really when you really get down to it. Right. And unless there's something like a monologue or something like that, it's dialogue. So people are always like, how do you memorize it?

I'm like, I don't know. It's like a conversation. Because he's asking me like where his keys are. And I'm like, they're on the fucking table, dude. Like that's an easy line to memorize. But also I think it's okay to say this that when things are well written, you memorize them like boom. And so, like, I think when things are not as well written or they're a little clunky, it does, I do have to memorize. However, that being said, it's just getting to a point now.

I feel like safer if I work on it ahead of time. Can you talk a little bit about this? We're at the same age. And I've just noticed that. Lucky. Yeah. I've just noticed that things that used to come. come easy to me.

Uh-huh. Just all of a sudden. Don't. Don't. Like being happy? Right. It was so easy to be happy. And now, yes, continue.

So, you know, the process of the transition from not being in menopause to being in menopause is called perimenopause. Yes. And to me, this is one of those things that I wish someone would have told me a lot of, earlier. There's going to be 10 years of your life that's just like kind of a crapshoot. I know. Every organ system might just do something completely insane. Oh, it's great. And you will hate yourself for everything happening on the daily. No one told me these 10 years were coming. So depending on where you are in it and also some people are on hormones, some people are not on hormones.

So yeah, have you noticed a difference? Because we've had on. Huge different. I know. I was listening to your Dr. Hayver episode because I'm obsessed with this. stuff. Yes, hormones are kick-ass. If you can take them, I highly recommend. And yes, it is like, uh, shitty that we go through this, that are medical, um, like the practitioners that we see, whether it's like gynaecologist, OBGYNs, like that no one is educated in this. And I'm just, I'm not going to like regurgitate everything she said, but, um, because people should listen to the episode you had of her because it's fucking awesome. But, um, um, Also, it's crazy when I was listening to her on here and thinking, she's like, yeah, I just started like three years ago, like learning about this stuff. And I'm like, what? Anyway, but yeah, I did feel like everything was crazy. I felt I had all these symptoms and I didn't know what they were. And one of them was like rain fog, not being able to be good at the same things I used to be good at. And one of those.

I'm just getting old and it's over. I just thought I was, like, going through depression, actually. Like, I thought that maybe I was, like, starting to, like, toe dip into mental illness and and thinking about, like, things I've heard my mom say and things I've witnessed her, like, experience and go through and everything. I was like, maybe that's in our family a little bit. She doesn't have that, but I don't know. Like, sometimes she just seems really sad and then sometimes she's really happy. And I was like, huh?

I don't know. I thought all those things were happening because nobody talks about it. Right. And when I would say, like, I'm feeling really sad. And my sweet GP, who I love, and I've been seeing him forever. And he was like, well, maybe we could do like a low dose of Prozac. And I was like, ooh, am I that sad? And then I'm like, I feel crazy.

I say to my gynecologist. And she's like, well, let's get you back on the pill. And I'm like, oh, really? Like, I have to go back on that. So that's how I felt. And then a lot of it I felt was manifesting in, like, my workplace because there was even just a level of confidence I felt like I lost. Like, even being in a conversation like at Video Village and, like, not remembering the word that I wanted to say and feeling like really self-conscious about it. And then just like deciding not to engage in those conversations like anymore, which changes my lifestyle because I'm usually pretty like I like to socialize at work.

and I like to talk to people and I like to make friends with the crew and all the people around. And so then if I'm like limiting that because I'm afraid of like just forgetting the word for vacuum, like then, you know, that sucks. And it made me feel sad. What do you think happened? I'm sort of fascinated with the fact that like this isn't a new thing. Like this transition that women go through. This isn't a new thing.

And yeah, women didn't used to live till 90, but it's been a minute that we've been living through this. What do you think women's experience used to be? Like, I'm just thinking of, like, my grandmas. I, well, I think there is a statistic I will never remember, because I read too fast, about the amount of women who leave the workplace at this age. Or get divorced. Or go in Prozac. Or, on the worst case scenario, obviously, is the suicide rate for women between 45 and 55. And so, like, I think that's what they did. I think they quit their jobs. And some people, um, or they were just miserable at home. They were miserable at home. They got divorced. They quit their jobs. Um, uh, they, you know, worst case scenario. Um, I don't, but like that's,

that's not really, that's like a non-answer answer because I don't know what they did. I think they just like suffered through it. I think they just suffered through it. Right. And I was, like, we always talk about how like our notion, I mean, I'm thinking about my mom's experience when she was my age when that felt like she was 80, right? Like when we're in our teens or 20s, right? And yeah, maybe she was like going through something. And instead it just seemed like she was mad all the time. Yes, not to throw my mom under the bus, but yes, it seemed like she was like mad or going crazy. But I, but like you also can't, I don't think that you can separate this from the fact that we are including like we are at our mother's age now,

like constantly being shown pictures of people all the time on social media and on computers. Now our mothers went through this change without access to the fucking internet. So while that can be a problem in the sense that they're not getting like weird medical advice online, which can be good and bad, they're also not seeing pictures of women that are skinny

and selling drugs to them and gummies that will make them have a full. at belly if they eat three of them a day and like all this shit. So it's like I think there was like if you're in more of like an insulated community of women and you're all going through this and yes, no one's talking about it. But like you're all kind of gaining 10 pounds and you're all getting tired and you're all getting crabby and you're all complaining about your husband and you're all complaining about your kids and you're all like confused and like, oh yeah, we're all just like feeling this way. But you're not being shown like another option and you're not like thinking like,

well, it should be that or I should look like that or I should want that. So maybe they were actually happier because they weren't on social media being bombarded with like oh I could be skinnier, I could be happier, I could look like I'm 30. And also I mean there always was I remember what was it like the Pridiccan diet like weight watchers. I remember hearing those things when I was a kid. Right and like the Jane Fonda

workouts and all that and it's funny because as a kid I never I just didn't grow up in a house where we talked about weight loss like that so I just thought my mom did things because she liked them but now I'm looking back and like yeah it probably was always pervasive in our culture. culture, but you're right. Like, all I have to do is, like, literally open my phone to feel depressed.

Like, if you want to feel like shit, you can do it in 10 seconds or less, like, five seconds or less because, and that's something our parents, our mothers didn't have to go through and our aunts and stuff. So they didn't have that, which we do, which is, like, makes it, I think, a lot harder. And, yes, there's, like, always, like, the benefits of it, meaning, like, the conversation is started. Right. And now we can, like, be talking about it and we can, like, search for those, like,

questions and answers on our own, but still, it's like hard. Yeah, it also takes a little bit of catching up because I remember when I first started seeing things on the internet, if you bring it to a doctor, a lot of doctors are like, that's just, that's just stuff that you see on the internet. Yeah. But now there's real doctors and real information. So it's also like trying to empower women in particular to say, you actually do know what's going on in your body.

You're the best, you're the best record keeper of your body and your mood. and all those things, not the guy that is supposed to tell you when you had your period last. It's sometimes feel bad for doctors because for them it's like a lose-lose because they could just blame all of our symptoms on perimenopause when we actually could have like cancer. Because sometimes like you go to the doctor and you're like, well, I'm like having a lot of weight loss or I'm having light sweats or I'm having this like that could be, you know, like all this. Like they could write it off as that, you know, or we just get told that like we're hysterical. We don't know. Yes, we are the best gauge of what's going. on in our body, but, like, things are being overlooked and not looked at enough, like,

when you think about what we go in with our symptoms. Right. In terms of the appearance stuff, you know, I think that's really interesting that you mentioned sort of the not feeling good about yourself can go hand in hand with this and, like, wanting to balance that out. Living in L.A. is a real challenge. Yes. It's just like it looks like an Instagram feed, you know, if you just go most places.

in Los Angeles. And I wonder, you know, you kind of once were interviewed and talked about that sort of, you know, as the best friend or as that sort of co-star role, you didn't feel as much, you know, kind of pressure. Yeah. But I think there definitely is a very pervasive notion of like what we're supposed to look like, what we're supposed to age like. Yeah.

Can you talk about maybe some of your personal choices? We have, you know, we had Justine Bateman on who's just like, everything's gorgeous, every line, every scar. And I'm like, really? Not there yet. Yeah. Can you talk about it a little bit? Like most people I know start doing filler in their 20s and...

I'm trying to think of when I started doing filler. I might have been in my 20s. Okay. I did all the things a couple times. But, like, I think I do the average amount of things. And I think that my personal vanity, has more to do with my personality and my DNA than my job

because I don't think I need to look a certain way for the roles that I play, thank God. I find that I feel more comfortable when I'm playing characters that are not supposed to be beautiful. Like when I'm playing like sort of more of the every man slash woman, when I play those like regular people

is like what I feel the most free. And when I play someone who's supposed to be attractive I do find that it like shatters my self-esteem like it's so much harder for me because I feel like I'm like getting all these different looks

from like the gaffer at work and the hair makeup is in all the time and they're adjusting a million lights and it takes forever to set up like well we need to really like if you could like I know it's weird but if you can deliver your line that way you know like that kind of stuff

and then I start to feel weird about myself but I don't but I don't know I think it is easier to not be a movie star. I think there is a lot less pressure and I don't necessarily like, but I don't, but I do care a lot about how I look and I think that's just like Judy Vanity. Speaking of vanity, I, you and I were on the Big Bang theory the same season. Yes. I was in the season finale of season three and you had a hilarious episode also in season three. Sometimes I

wonder if I've ever had another job. Why? Because I get recognized for that, non-stop. Wow. Once a week. Still? Still.

It's been a minute. Oh, yeah. And you've been in a lot of other things. So many things. Like 200 things. So many things. And yet. People love the Big Bang Theory.

I mean, it was also, talk a little bit about your character because it was a very, very funny, very funny turn. I just think it was because I was. You were also in your underwear. which sometimes happens. Yes.

And I'm wondering if I had not been in my underwear if I would have been recognized as much for that. But you're not walking around in your underwear. It's your face that's recognizable. That's true. But I think it made an impression. Got it. Talk a little bit about the character, yeah.

She was like a horny scientist, basically. Like they are. Yeah. Turns out. I was going to try to do that thing, but I also, I don't know. I don't know you well enough to do that. I, yeah, that's what I remember of her,

is that she was there for like a conference or something. With Sheldon, right. Yes, and she wanted to have sex with Sheldon or anyone. But Leonard ended up being the, yes. He was the taker. And I, like, had, like, fancy underpants on and came out. Right. And I remember that we pre-shot that scene.

Oh. My memory, I should say. You mean not in front of live audience. Right. So then we had the live audience taping was on a Tuesday of that show. Was that a Tuesday night? We were on Fridays by the time I got there, yeah. Yeah, I think maybe it was anyway.

But I just, I know that because I pre-shot my underpants scene that I ate like so much Taco Bell that night because I knew I didn't have to be in my underpants the next day. Does it work like that? No. But in my mind, it does. A lot of sodium. Right. So I was actually on Big Bang Theory and we would go to lots of award shows and things, which was very exciting.

And I had no idea because the last time I had been on television, A, I was a teenager. And B, it was the 90s. And that wasn't a thing. So different. So I learned on, during my time on Big Bang Theory, I learned that there are certain foods. Many women don't eat for like the week before an awards show. Yeah. What are these secrets?

Just sodium. Because you get bloated. Yeah, because you retain water. Yeah. Like, don't, like, no soy sauce is a big one. I learned on a pilot I shot in Vancouver that I was up in Vancouver shooting this pilot. This was, like, 25 years ago or something. And my eye back, like, I was so puffy every single day.

And I thought I was eating so healthy because every night I would go home and have sushi because it was, like, really good sushi in Vancouver. And I was having sushi every night. And, like, I would go to work the next morning and I was puffy. puffy, puffy. And my makeup artist was like, okay, okay, okay, let's just break this down. Like, what are you eating? And I was like, uh, this. And she's like, okay, and that, okay. And sushi, okay, do you put in soy sauce? And I'm like, yeah. And so then she's like, okay, stop. So to this day, like, I don't really eat a lot of sushi because I don't like to eat

animals if I don't have to, but, um, the soy sauce thing. But there's like soy sauce. I think full, I don't know if there's extra secret actress food, but for me, it's anything that It's like carbs and water retention. So what? Carbs and salt. What do carbs do? Well, they just, I don't know. I guess, you know, people go on these crazy no carb diets.

Like insane people. They don't eat carbs. So like, where are you getting your fiber? Anyway, so you have like no carbs. And I think it's like a bloat thing. Okay. It's just all about bloating. I think you're really only going to like lose about five pounds and it's probably just going to be water.

Right. But for that scene or that night. Right. That red carpet. Yes, whatever, if you want, your riddlet's showing. Yeah, I guess. And that seemed more important in my earlier years than now. But it's interesting, like, vanity aside, there's many foods that we eat that can not be good for us or for our skin.

Yeah. So I'm, this is totally not interesting at all, but I'm going to talk about it anyway. He was riveted over the perimenofs. I'm one of these people who always had tiny bumps on my upper arms. teeny tiny bumps, not pimples. They're like bumps. There's a name for it. There's a name.

It's a form of eczema. But when I cut out soy and gluten, they went away. And this was my whole life. And every dermatologist is like, let's throw cortisone on it. Because they love to put cortisone on everything. Or you could do this. Or you could do this treatment. Or you could do this treatment.

Or constantly moisturized, constantly exfoliate. And I was like, that's so interesting that that's what it was. And I'm thinking, where else was it working in my body that maybe my body didn't like. Yeah, because you have to answer that. I'm just saying. Well, I don't know about your body. But definitely, like, inflammatory foods. Like, those were two inflammatory foods

for you that you probably didn't know. And you can, like, go on an anti-inflammatory food diet and, like, just get everything back to, like, ground zero and then, like, add in, I mean, I'm not telling you to everything. You don't already know. Do you eat nightshades?

Yes. Oh, okay. Tomatoes. Like, we're not supposed to eat tomatoes. Egg plan. I'm not like an eggplant fanatic, but I would. To prove a point, I would. Tomatoes are hard, though, like pizza sauce and any type of sauce. Yeah, and we eat a lot of sauce.

It's what makes everything taste good. Really? I know. I don't have a gluten allergy, but I had which doctor tell me once that I have antibodies for it. Oh, yeah. So she's like, something in your body is reacting to gluten. just know that. And I was like, okay. And then a lot of my family has celiac disease. And so they were like, if you, if you are not allergic to gluten, you need to keep eating gluten because you will

then get allergic to gluten and your life will get very difficult, especially when you think about like how much we travel for work. And if I don't eat meat, that it's like, like, try not eating gluten and meat in Ohio when I visit my family. It's very difficult. Very hard, especially on the road. Yeah, yeah. Right. On the road is really difficult. So I, I am like, even in times where maybe I do want to like chill out the inflammatory things in my body, like I will still have like a piece of toast. Isn't this fascinating? It's fascinating for me. I mean, I do like it.

I mean, I'm curious being in the industry and working the number of jobs you've worked, how have you not, or maybe you have experienced like the more crazy side of Hollywood health hacks? Oh, I mean, I've seen them all, but I'm not engaging in them. You haven't been recruited? Or what are some of the crazier ones that you've maybe seen? It's not crazy, but I did learn a little bit more on that, like, before an event or before a big scene. Like, someone told me, like, not to drink any water. Like, if you have to be in a bathing suit or, like, don't drink any water that day. And I'm like, what?

That seems crazy to me. me, it works, unfortunately. Do they get very thirsty? Yeah, but it'll look good. Again, I don't really do those roles anymore. But that, I don't know. I mean, like, I mean, we could talk about the obvious thing that everyone's doing right now. We could.

But the O, I'm really. What do they call it if people don't want to call it by its name? GLP. What is it? GLP1. GLP1. I am working on myself. to let go of judgment about people's decisions about that medication.

I talk a lot about it to a woman once a week for one hour that I pay money to. And I'm like, if I could have you tally the amount of money I've spent, just talking about my feelings about this. I'm curious what's sort of the crux of it. Is it that? Oh, I know, because I'm in your head. You tell her one more. No, no, it's fine.

Tell me what I... I'll pay my own therapist to talk about it. Is it? What is it? What do you think? I want to hear what... I mean, look, I'm one of these kind of like, you know, old school, hardcore, like, we're, we as women, I think in particular women in the industry, like, we're told to embrace things. Because it's kind of convenient for everyone's pleasure for us to say, we're told to say, we're

we're on board with something, whether that's sexual harassment, whether it's being asked to be gratuitously naked, whether it's being asked to... It's to play nice. We're just, we're told to play nice, like in every way. Yeah, so to me, I do, I feel, and also I don't, I also would like to release judgment, meaning everybody gets to do their thing. I know. But to me, it does make it harder, not just for me, but as a society, for their to be.

be a normal spectrum of the human experience when it is becoming so mainstream to manufacture, you know, a really unnatural expectation, especially for women. Did I say it? No, agreed. And I also think, like, furthermore, it is another way to, like, separate people and their, this is the brain foggy part where I'm just going to say words. Vacuum. Vacuum.

Flashlight. Like, it's another way to separate, like, communities economically from each other, which is something that, like, worries me still. So now you're seeing, like, yet another, like, class of people able to achieve this sort of, like, standard of beauty that we have been trying to tell ourselves doesn't exist. it is furthering, potentially furthering, like, this patriarchal society of, like, women need to look young and be skinny in order to be accepted and beautiful. And, like, that scares me, you know? But at the same time, as far as, like, the releasing judgment is concerned, it's like, I want people to fucking be happy and feel good about themselves. And however you can do it, like, that's the thing I want. But I also noticed that until this came, until this drug became part of like the mainstream,

it's like we were working so hard on accepting bodies of all shapes and sizes and ages. And you go to a place that I guess we can't go to anymore called Target that has, you know, mannequins that are of all shapes and sizes. Like that was not the case when I was a kid. They looked like real people. Yes. There's real people in the clothes. and I love that.

And even in some of the websites that I visit and shop on, like have models of different sizes of like expensive clothes, like have models of all different shapes and sizes now wearing those clothes on the website, which I'm like, thank you. But like, but also, I mean, I guess if we can feel better about our, it's not like, I guess to me it just took like a systemic issue that we were working on. just like we don't have to work on that anymore, which maybe is a good thing because maybe we need to work on like being more loving and stuff. Obviously I do. But like that we then can like focus our energies elsewhere. But it is kind of a bummer to think that like in this place where we live called Los Angeles and probably in New York and like a few other cities in the country, people can't afford this drug and they can look a certain way because they can afford it. But yet like it is still not widely available to people who actually need it. And to people like who just want it like we do, but we can buy it. And that bums me out for all those reasons. I think it's extremely important. And the systemic issue that we were working on is like it's a massive hit or set back to that issue. It's like you're perfect the way you are, but you'd be more perfect if you just took this drug.

But then like also just like take this and you'll be skinny because skinny is better no matter what. And by the way, I feel that way. Because I was brought up to feel that way because we did talk about weight in my house. I'm the only child and my mother was never not on a diet. She was never not trying to lose weight. She was never not like complaining about her weight and talking about how fat she felt. And it was just like a constant, like that is my, that's in my cells of my body. So like I can look at myself in the mirror and I have like two very different feelings about what I see in it.

Like the like you are fat and old and the like, you look fucking awesome. Like, you look great. And so maybe you have to buy a bigger size of jeans, but, like, that is okay. If you take away the people who actually need these drugs, the real brain fuck here is that the people who are using it who don't really need it are actually getting fatter, meaning they're losing muscle mass. And the percentage of their body that is fat. I'm rolling my eyes. People don't care. They just want to be skinny.

Yeah, but they're because. they'd rather be dead than not be skinny. But that's what's happening. They're losing muscle, so the percentage of their body that is fat versus muscle is actually increasing the percentage of fat. So they're skinny fat. It's a great irony. I know. And also, if you like-

I roll my eyes at it, though. I do. I think I also have a healthy dose of jealousy that I wish I could just be like, whatever, I'm just going to take it. And then I can lose the 10 pounds and, like, feel the way I want to feel about myself. Like, I am jealous of that mindset. One thing also not to be overlooked for women is osteoporosis, and because women are now achieving the body size that they want without having to lift heavy weights to do it, and especially going back to the peri menopause-menopause conversation and how likely we are as women to get osteoporosis when our bone density shrinks. And then like when you're not lifting weights and you're not exercising, your bone density decreases, in which case you have osteoporosis and you break your hip when you trip on the rug because your dog moved it when she was running to get her treat. So when you think, oh, I wish I could have that mindset to just take them, know that you're going to be able to get up out of your chair when you're 80 in a way that these other people will not be able to.

Wait, do you guys, do you want to hear something a doctor told someone once? Just kidding. My mother-in-law, who I'm obsessed with, whose name is Elsa Judy, she had to have a hip replacement surgery. but her hip replacing doctor told her this, I'm sure you can look up. Is the word surgeon that you were just looking for? Surgeon. Her surgeon. Thank you.

Flashlight and vacuum. He said that most elderly people who break their hips, they fall and break their hips. That's true. But what I'm about to tell you might potentially blow your mind. You fall down and you break your hip, right? Yeah. No. This one man, this one surgeon said that most older people

break their hip and they fall when their hip spontaneously breaks and then you're like oh my god i fell down and broke my hip but actually your hip breaks you fall down and this whole now this is one doctor but i liked him he has twins can you imagine anyway um i know this because my mother-in-law likes to see the pictures uh no but um the uh yeah like that was something that i was like holy buckets that changes even the way I think about like bone density, osteoporosis. You could just be standing in place. You literally could just like be reaching for your coffee and break your hip and then you stand up and fall down and you're like, oh my God, you fell and broke your hip.

You hear it all the time. Bontaneous hip breaking. Combustion, basically. Jonathan's had one hip replacement already. It did not combust. Can we? You want to see the scar? No.

Off camera. I feel like I'm headed for it. I'm having a lot of pain. Oh. Where did the pain start? When he was in his 20s? Like where physically did it start? Yeah.

I mean, mine was a long time coming. It was a congenital issue. I'm sorry. And I had no concept of it for a really long time. So I don't know that it's as easy to articulate. Like I was playing competitive basketball and sort of at the highest level of play when I was like really pushing myself like the next day I'd be like, oh, this is really sore. Like I feel like I, you know, pulled something.

Like in your hip bone? In the socket, really, is where I started to feel it. Because yours is not in the socket? I don't know what's going on down here. There's a whole situation. Just that side? Yeah. Interesting.

I will say that I was terrified of getting more information. And when I kind of got to the point where I called mine one day, I'm like, I think I need a new hip. She's like, you have no clue. You're way ahead of this. I didn't know. I didn't know you had asked the universe and the universe told you you need a new hip. It just occurred to me at one point. And I'm like, I think I needed an end because I was 41 at the time.

He can be a little hyperbolic. So when he was like, I have to be hip replacement. I was like, let's, slow down. I'm covered in tumors only on the left side in this region. And my husband's like, really, that's where we're going with this. You've been wearing high heels at work for weeks, but it's definitely tumors. I'm like, no, it's definitely tumors. It's a good thing you can heal those quick.

It's terrible. But even last night in bed, I was like, maybe I should just go and get the hip replacement. No imaging. No imaging. No doctor visits. Just do it. Just the drive-thru. And then I woke up and like my husband's like, morning, honey. And I'm like, can you just get an MRI?

Like, do I have to have a doctor-assford? Or can I just go to the place in Koreatown where I get my MRIs and be like, yo, can we do my hip today? You do need a doctor to order that. Why? Because it's a prescription. It's pretty easy to get. And I will say that the best thing I did was get that information and then the turnaround time to pop a new hip in the there was pretty quick and it was

like significantly life-changing. I want this to go away. Then it was a year of hell but not your problem. Right. The rehab was not so easy but if you have to get a joint replaced. He doesn't take narcotics. I think if he had taken the narcotics it would have been easier but then maybe harder. Yeah.

I don't know if I would take narcotics either. I did like half a dose the first day and was like this is not for me. No, it's not for you. Or me. But if you have to if you have to get a joint replacement, That's the best joint to get. There's a gun to your head.

You have to replace one joint now. I know if this happens to me tonight when I'm parking my car in the dark, I'm going to be like, hip! Hip! Oh my God. Okay, sorry. I was just laughing.

Let's talk about another thing that changes when you get older that you've spoken about. I want to talk about alcohol. Something I used to enjoy. Very much. Me too. I used to love it. I used to love it.

And then... Your palm started getting sweaty. My palm started getting itchy from drinking wine. Yeah. Like I grew a physical allergy. Yeah. And it was right around COVID time. Maybe there was an increased consumption in the years leading up to and including.

I don't know. But it fucks up your sleep. I'm certain of that. it fucks up your sleep. And it's at a certain age. That's at a certain age, though. I can't remember when it was for me. I kept drinking well after that.

But anyway, when my palms started itching, which I believe was a hex that this witch doctor put on me, then it just wasn't worth it. And people started being like, it's the sulfate? Is the sulfated thing? You just don't natural wine. And I'm like, you know what? What I like is not feeling the way I'm feeling.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't like researching. I don't like trying, testing, going a fancy place. I like Manashevitz with an ice cube. That's what I. Really? She's fancy. Oh.

I always put ice. White wine, red wine. It needs an ice cube. But then one day we stopped trying. And I would also, like, when I was thinking back, like, a lot of times, even when I was in my 20s and not even really, I was never really a super heavy drinker at that time. but when I would drink like a mixed drink like a vodka whatever I would feel an ache go through my body like a the demons it was and what I've been told is like that's a toxin yeah your body's seeing that's and it would kind of pass and I would have another drink and like whatever and it was great but um

what what was your journey because at this point I'm just like it's just fucking not worth it I can't deal with it and it's not necessary to go down this road. What's your, what was your sort of experience? Different than you. Um, like, well, all the, I don't have, I, I, I, I don't think I have an allergy to alcohol. It sounds like you might actually have an allergy to alcohol, but like, thank you, Dr. Greer. Um, yeah, people to listen to me. Um, but, uh, I think that, well, my experience was that I love drinking alcohol and I love drinking loads of alcohol and I love the feeling. And I love the feeling, of like between like getting like starting to drink and like being buzzed like I really like I like that and I liked and I liked like my whole social life like most people's social life drinking is drinking part of me has this theory that if you take away alcohol people won't have friends they won't have relationships like it's why we kind of can have social lubricant right as part of our interaction so for me I pandemic.

Like, I was always, like, a very... I was always, like, a super, like, heightened social drinker. So I was never one to necessarily, like, have drinks at home by myself. Like, if I was home alone one night, like, I wouldn't, like, I'm gonna have wine, or I'm gonna make myself a coffee. The best time to drink, June. No one can judge.

I thought if I didn't drink by myself, then it was okay. Got it. Okay. It's like, wasn't it like I'm drinking at home? So were you, like, drunk Judy at events? Oh, yeah. Oh. I didn't know this about you. Some people do.

No, I would drink at events and also like social anxiety, just like a lot of things. And then, of course, now we cut to the pandemic, right? When I think that was like, you know, that first, like 2020 was just like, how early can we start? We didn't have kids at home. Like my stepkids had already moved out. So, like, it was just. the two of us and my husband was still working at the time. I mean, he's still working, but he was actually working during the pandemic. And so when he would finish his work day, which was earlier

because of the pandemic, like, we would start drinking. And so it was just like having like Zoom drinks with people. Like every single night was like Zoom drinks with different people. And I don't know. It just kind of like really amped up in a way that like kind of was like, what are I doing? And all these other like the sleepless nights, like the pan-ympers. Like the pan. like the dread, like the anxiety, like all that stuff. And so then when it was 2021 and I'm like, we're going to do dry January. And then I was like, actually, I'm feeling really good. I'm going to keep not drinking.

And so then I got a couple jobs, like my first jobs into the pandemic. And I was like, I think I'm just going to like, I think I'm just going to like not drink through these jobs. And then we had a planned trip with friends to Napa. And we've gone to Napa. That's where all the wine is. Turns out. Anyway, we were going to Napa with friends. And I was like, well, I'm just going to not drink till Napa.

It'll be a great reset for me. Like, just kind of like cool it. Were you already feeling like there was something going on that needed a little bit of regulation? Or were you still kind of coasting on the like, oh, I just won't drink? Probably I was thinking, like, I don't know if this is really, like, great for me personally. I don't like this feeling. Like, I think I was already kind of like, huh? I think, like, alcohol for me was helpful with some.

social anxiety and it just kind of never like got regulated into like a thing I could take or leave. And it felt like a great reward because I work so hard and I work such long hours. I just want to have a good time. I just like deserve this. Like it's the weekend or I'm on location and I don't know people and like that's like the hotel bar like we're all going to go out for drinks after work. And it was like it's just really like well I shouldn't even say it's like baked into what we do because it's in every it's just so pervasive so anyway we I get into 2021 and I was like okay well I'm gonna drink on my Napa trip with my friends and then I'll have this like great reset and like I'll like calm down and it had been like almost six months since I had a drink so I did I went

to Napa and did all the things that we normally do and like everything was fine and everything was fine for like a really long time and then it was just like all this is it was just like kind of coming back and I was just finding like more and more like that it was getting back to the way it was. And so I decided that I listened. This is a book that's referenced a lot. You've heard of Quitlet. Have you heard of this term?

No. So it's a term that is used to describe books about like being sober or quitting. Right. I've only just started to say I'm sober and not because I wasn't sober, but because it just stops the fucking conversation when I don't really want to talk about why I don't drink with stranger. And if you say you're sober, then they'll be like, oh, you know. It's like, I could be here or I could be in a ditch.

Like, I'm sober. But like, but I think that was, it's just like, I'm just, anyway. So Quitlet is like these books about quitting drinking, quitting drugs, like quitting addictions. And so they've like kind of called it Quitlet. Someone decided that's what it's called. Anyway, there's a famous one. It's fun, right?

Rhymes. So there's a famous one called This Naked Mind. Annie Grace, she, I listen. to this book and there was something in it that like this one little thing she said stuck out to me which was like it's so much easier to just decide not to drink than to make all these rules for yourselves around like okay I'm going to have like one cocktail one glass of wine and that's it like to go into a social event and have all of these like rules that you have to like stick to. That's like why? Like why not just and this is all sort of like addiction and sobriety and all those

words aside. Like that I was like I am making rules for myself. I am saying like I'll have a martini and then I'll switch to white wine and then that's it. I'll have only white wine tonight. I will only drink one IPA and then I'll switch to like. Like I was spending so much energy on like trying to manage something that was just easier to be like, I don't drink. Not to mention, can I tell you how much money we have saved in Uber's? Like, people are like, oh my God, you must like not spend any money drinking. I'm like, no, dude, I don't spend any money on Uber's anymore. Like that.

You know, they say if you want to figure out why you're doing something, stop doing it. What did you notice? Because, you know, for me, once I stopped drinking. How long have you not? I mean, it's been years. Wow. almost the whole time we've been doing this podcast, I'd say. After my divorce, I went through a pretty strong period, like a, you know, a strong period.

You earned that period. No, but I guess that sort of would be my question for you, meaning like, I just don't enjoy social things the same way. I just don't haven't really figured that out, you know what I mean? So I'm curious, like, what did you learn kind of about yourself when you stop doing it? the thing that was that, you know, liquid courage. Yeah. I don't... I mean, I'm really learning so much still.

I don't know. My therapist, too, I'm obsessed with is always just saying, like, we're just gathering information, aren't we? We're just gathering information. I learned... Well, I like myself sober. Like I like I like how I feel

I even like the times where I have low self-esteem I like it because I am Because the way I feel Without alcohol or drugs At a low self-esteem moment Is so much better than how I feel Hungover the next day

Like spiraling about Like what I tried to do to overcome that low self-esteem moment. So it's like learning to sort of like sit in that dis-ease, that unease is like something I'm terrible at, but like it's a better feeling than that other feeling. Like I don't, I still like the social events. I just don't like them for as long. Like I have a heart out. Like I'm like, I can get into like everyone's like second round of drinks. And then I'm like, I'm not going. Yeah.

But I also think, like, it's changed, like, how and who I want to spend my time with, too. I mean, I guess it is, like, affecting social stuff. But, like, that is interesting to me, like, oh, like, how, like, who I want to be around, like, whether they're drinking or not. Does your husband still drink? Mm-hmm. Got it. You still want to be around him? I do.

I do. I do. In fact, sometimes I feel. guilty so I'm like, you need to order another drink so the waiter is like that mad that like, um, like probably. No, that's a real thing though. Like when you say, oh, we're not drinking, the waiters just like looks at you like, yeah, which is why like every non-alcoholic cocktail is now also $15.

So I'm like, um, yeah, he still drinks and that, thank God that is fine. That is fine. And he is like, whatever you need, babe, like whatever you. want to do it's really interesting he's very supportive of that decision thankfully i think in the beginning a lot of our like sort of circle of party friends we're sort of like side whispering like how is this is this for okay i mean not we're fine whatever but like is she's still fun yeah look i swear um and and there was a a trip with some friends that was happening and like we were invited to go on it

and I was still sort of like, I think I'm just doing this. And I like went like on the side to the woman who was planning it. And I was like, look, I am like not planning on drinking on this trip. And I don't want to like take up the space. If you'd rather like invite somebody else, like, please. It like will not hurt my feelings. And I will still feel so loved by you. But like I don't want to be there.

If you'd rather just have it be like a more of a party thing. Like, oh my God, no. Anyway, I was sort of secretly hoping that it would inspire some people to drink less because I am codependent and it has not. Interesting. We should definitely circle back to codependency. Please. I really like how you describe the feeling of being okay, feeling like anxious and insecure and how that's actually better than the. recovery from a hangover. And like I kind of see it like, oh, we have a feeling of disease. So we

attack it or drown in alcohol. And that like swings our emotions. So we're super extroverted and we're making all these connections. But then that goes away and we're left with a deeper drop. So it's almost like taking away the alcohol just kind of keeps us just more even, more level with ourselves. Because we have to return back to ourselves anyway. Yeah. Like that's the one thing that's not going anywhere, you know, like that, yes, it's always like going to be me, you know, like no matter where you go, there you are. Like, it's just that, like, what's the worst, what's the best worst feeling? Like, the least, I don't know, the best, the best joint to have replaced. Like, better, better to just be regular, like, sad and blue than hangover

sad and blue. That's funny. Let's talk a little bit about codependency. You know, it's such a, you know, it's such a sexy word on the internet these days. Melanie Beedy died. We did an episode to see if my and I were codependent. She, no, Melanie. Stop, no, no. I will not do this to you.

No, I won't. You can't. I'm stopping you. I'm protecting you from yourself. I'm encouraging you. Let's talk. about a little bit about codependency. I mean, you mentioned Midwest

and only child, which is like a little bit like two big check marks. Nothing against the Midwest. But when you are of a certain age, there is a particular culture clash, I think, if you're coming out of Detroit. You're from Detroit, sorry? Yeah. Talk a bit about how did you

earn your codependency? Well, Mom. Michelle never listened to this. I think I come from a long line of co-dependence. We're super good at it. How did I, I think that... How do you define it also?

Well, I think where the line between me and another person is very blurry. And I was reading a book about narcissism and I was like, ooh, wait, am I also narcissistic? Like, I, like, you can be more than one. I can. I am an overachiever. It's true. I think that I have done. I think that I have decided right now to define it codependency for myself as having like a super blurry line between me and other people and

like I just spied your Mel Robbins let them over there and I listened to that book and it's such a great like book about codependency really detaching it is about detaching with love

and like that to me is something when I think about detaching with love, I think about like how how to let everyone just like be in their own bubble and like enjoy them as they are. And so I guess

one of the things I've really been trying to do in the last couple years is like is strengthen and harden that line between me and other people so that like I don't think I want to not think I know better. I want to not like be so invested emotionally and like what the people in my life are doing and thinking and

the decisions they're making and so I guess that's how I would define it and I think I come by it really naturally because like I said like I come from the Midwest and a big big family on my mom's side which is women all types of women and ages of women who've been really influential over me and and we all like we just really get in there we just really want to get in there and figure out and solve the problems and move on and I think it sometimes when you're like kind of type a like you just like like I can see it so clearly from the outside I can fix it and and like also like that I can't be happy if someone that I love is unhappy like I'm not allowed to be happy if my husband is unhappy because then like I'm not that's not love like you're only really loving

someone if you're like feeling the way that they're feeling which is so untrue but that's kind of how I think by accident I was taught to love and also the notion that it's okay to be a caregiver it's okay to be loving it's okay to be helpful but doing for other people what they can and should be doing for themselves is not necessarily healthy yeah yeah and I think ultimately it's really self-involved and it's it's I mean it's it's the most selfish, selfless thing that you can do. Yeah. And I think I was taught something about being self-centered and I was always so concerned with not being like an only child. Like only children are like so selfish and and oh, I didn't even know you were an only child. Wow. And that's like a

compliment like that I don't present that way. And I'm like, yeah, see? Like, but I think I was always trying to sort of combat that definition of only child. Um, and, and, And also like having a little bit of a blurry line with my mom growing up about like, is she my mom or is she my friend? And sometimes like needing a mom and needing, you know what I mean? And like, and I think it's great because we're so close. But at the same time, I think it taught me like to to not always like have like strong definitions of relationships. I mean, we want to be close with our parents. And yet sometimes you definitely need a parent.

Like, I'm, my son is an only son, only child. And sometimes I'll turn to him and I'll be like, dude, I'm not, I'm not your buddy all the time. Like sometimes you like you need to do what I tell you. We do. If you're friends with a codependent, we will also tell you what to do it before not your parent. I want to touch on Eric Leroux, which is coming out April 4th and directed by Michael Shannon. Yes. This is a different kind of role than we've seen you in.

You know, much of your career, which, you know, much of your career, you know, you're kind of that actress that, like, has been in like, oh my gosh, I've seen her in and you can list a dozen things off the top of your head, even if you're in menopause. You can list, like, a dozen things and obviously arrested development, like things that really, like have gained you tremendous, like, love, attention, affection, and that one episode of Big Bang Theory. but this is this is a very dramatic very significant emotional kind of piece what was it like to take this kind of part

it was scary I was scared but I trust Mike Michael Shannon the director I trust Mike so much I mean I trust him now so so much but like we had worked together a couple times we were friends and so

when he sent me the script and wanted me to play it and like it was his directorial debut So he actually, that's not true because he directs a lot of theater, but like his first movie. And I was so incredibly flattered. And like Mike has access to like, I think every actress he couldn't have asked to do this. So I was like hugely flattered. And just like being asked to do it. Like they say like, it's just an honor to be nominated.

But even like I got to do it. But like just the fact that he wanted me to do it, I was like, I are like done. Like I already got. like that feeling of like, wow, they like me. They really, anyway, I respected him so much as a, as an artist for so long. So that was huge. And then playing the role, like once we all got there, like all of us actors and we were in Wilmington, North Carolina.

And we were, it was kind of like the old days of making movies. We all stayed in the same hotel. Like, we all went to work together and came home together. Like, we had dinner together every night. Like, it's now different, like, because. You know, you go on location and you rent an Airbnb and like you bring your kids or like what it's like we're all just like now It just used to be that we were all together like summer camp So it felt like that again and

And the work was really tough, but I learned a lot I mean the movie is really about grief and about processing grief and I I don't know it opened my eyes to like the different versions of grief that there are. And what we see and what we imagine is the biggest grief is, you know, it's different. It's not just always one version. Yeah, that's one of the things I wanted to ask about because the film is it's from the

perspective of parents whose son has committed a horrendous and very, very disturbing act of violence. And what I think is so interesting is it really is kind of slicing grief into all of these different pieces that even in a couple, right? Even in a unified front, you can have such a distinct and specific reaction. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about just sort of as an actress what that process was also like? Well, it was, I guess when I look back on it now and I think of grief, what I was. interested in about it while we were shooting it was the role of the church in in the recovery of these people in this community and because I was raised in a couple different churches with a little bit like a lot of different religious experiences like that was really interesting to me and how people

look for guidance and because I'm from the Midwest I mean I've lived here now longer than I've lived in the Midwest, but what, like, I don't want to sound like a jerk, but like what we think happens on the coasts is not really, well, we know that because of the election, is not really indicative of what's actually going on in the country as a whole. And people really, like, do try to rely on a church. They rely, like, that's a big part of people's lives. And that's where they go for solace and for comfort. And that was so interesting to me when we were making the movie, it was interesting to me that these people, because I don't often play people who look to the church for help. And that was what was interesting to me about the community that we were

creating in these two characters, that they were both looking at different churches for help. And these churches had different ways to try to provide comfort for their community and their followers, like one church is like everything is divine and this was God's plan and this was, you know, he wanted this to happen for some reason and we won't know. And then the other church and the other version of comfort through a church is like, you know, God doesn't do terrible things, but the church is here to help you through what happens. And like, I found that to be really interesting because when I grew up, there was so much religion in my childhood and it never provided any comfort for me and like I like now that I'm older like I would like that like I was interested in these in this

version of trying to find help for grief and telling the story and it was like kind of hard to go back in time and think about that and see the church from this point of view um I don't know if that answered your question yeah and also like just I can't help it your mom had a stint as a nun Speaking of the religion. She claims that my father is her first husband, but that cannot be the case if she married God first. And I like to remind her of that often. And she's like, stop it.

I'm like, technically that's not air fun. How long did she know her husband? She officially nunned for four years. She did four years of nun high school and four years of official nunning until she got respectfully asked to leave the convent. And then she went to nursing school. and became a nurse. And while she was in nursing school, she met my dad.

Wow. Respectfully asked to leave? What my mom said is that the mother superior thought she would be better at serving God in a more secular environment. That sounds very politically correct. That sounds like you're doing things that don't feel nunning. She had a red bathing suit, she said. And they said she was vain. which...

It's a sin? Yeah. Those were the things that she... When were they seeing her red bathing suit? One of the parishioners had a pool. No. And so the parishioner said, like, oh, it's really hot. This is Ohio in the summertime. Like, if you guys want to come swimming, can come in our pool.

And I guess, like, all the other nuns had, like... Black. Nun bathing suits. And my mom was like, dope. I'm getting a red bathing suit because I love the color red. And they're like, whoa. And I think That's it

You're out We knew it But yes, that was That was one of many Symbols of many Got it I mean the moment is your mom Standing about to choose

The right bathing suit To buy before she even has that Can you tell he's a screenwriter? But for that moment You wouldn't be here If she had gone She'd gone black bathing suit I'd like to think I would have anyway.

I'm imagining the moment for me is like the head-to-to-to-to-habit just coming off. And the red bathing suit being in the red bathing suit. They're lucky she had a bathing suit at all. I mean. I'm curious about how you find a character like this. I, you know, tend to think of things a little bit, you know, from a metaphysical standpoint. And I'm like wondering when you're walking in or like starting to read that character and sort of like taking on that role.

Like, do you know when you find it? Does it feel different to you? that's part one and part two is like how do you distance yourself after you've inhabited someone who is playing that type of grief do you feel like it sticks with you or do you kind of have to cleanse it out of you?

You know, it's funny that you ask part two because I just wrapped last night like most of the TV show that I'm shooting in this last week has been just like super heavy, super dramatic stuff like really intense emotional scenes and I was like coming here today and I was like I feel like I've been through a trauma like I feel like and then not like we're the real heroes or anything but like but I'm like I wonder if there is any validity to and I know I'm an actor but like to putting myself through things emotionally that because I also feel really puffy and I'm like I think I'm holding like I think I have a lot of cortisol in my body right now like I'm like I think I have a lot of cortisol in my body right now like I I think I'm holding onto a lot of stress and adrenaline, cortisol, like, that is, like, making me just feel, like, and I think it's because my body, I had an acting teacher in college, say, like, if you need to cry, just, like, start pretending to cry.

Your body will remember crying, and it'll just cry. And that doesn't totally work, by the way, but, like, sometimes it does. And your body kind of remembers. Like, you can probably just make yourself throw up by, like, trying to make yourself throw up, right? like just pretending to throw up and then maybe, I don't know. Anyway, my point is this. The body could potentially think it's been through the trauma that this character has been through. 100%.

Brain doesn't know the difference. Yeah. So I think I actually sort of like have been through a trauma in a way. Anyhow. I'm glad you're in therapy. Do you think I need it? Am I wasting money? The first question I think I don't under the first part.

Like how do I? Let's stay with the second part for a second. Because it's true. The brain or the body doesn't know the difference. Right. You know, the more experts we talk to the body's physiological mechanisms are going to respond to whatever the brain is generating. And if the brain is generating those scenes where you're deep in character and for those moments, you are experiencing that, then it would make sense that the aftermath would be like, oh, I just went through something. Like there's probably some divide, but like not a full divide.

Yeah. It's the basis of like when people talk about manifesting, right? You're placing yourself in the present tense of I am experiencing all the things you want to experience because you're tricking your brain into believing that you are healthy, you are abundant, you are loved. So yeah, I think for actors, that's a little bit of what it's like. And then what is that reset process? How do you sort of do both repair and then also tell your body that you're not in that state anymore because you're now in whatever other state you're in?

I weirdly think I need to actually like tell my body that that didn't really happen. Like I think I need to like and need people like, oh, I need a massage or I go to spa or whatever. But I think that it's like, yes, it's like, oh, I have to go have a spa day to like, but I think it is about having a spa day. It is about like whatever version of like telling my body like that didn't happen to me. I am okay. I will let that go and like not let that sit inside of myself. I mean, like, I will go through, like, shooting a movie for a couple months and I'll come home and immediately get sick. And it's like, of course I'm getting sick. Of course my body's like, okay.

I mean, dressed like on the day. Like, I have like a playlist I would listen to called Drive Home Happy. My phone is not there, so I don't know why I pointed out my water. Um, Drive Home Happy. And I would listen to it when I was driving home from work every day on Eric Leroux, specifically I made it because it was like, Beyonce and Taylor Swift and just like happy, happy songs that I would listen to you and be like, woo, okay. Like today was so fun and like get like my wiggles out that way. Part one of the question. The way that I imagine it is that a character exists that you created.

Yes. And I imagine it in two different ways. One is you start to read this character on the page and you start to build pieces of it and then eventually it all comes together. or you start to read this character and you kind of just almost channel it and then express it during the scenes. And so because I think, and again, I'm making all this up, I'm not an actor whatsoever,

but I think that, you know, especially when it's a very intense role that has an enormous amount of emotional complexity, the Judy of you, who is not that character, it would be uncomfortable to step into that. So you wouldn't just kind of like, there has to be some sort of transition. And I guess I wonder, you know, do you find it or you know you found it when you start

to do takes and it sort of comes to life? Or do you feel like before you're actually on set, you sort of know that you have it? I think it depends on the project and the actual workspace that I'm in. And sometimes it's that I have it going into it. And sometimes it happens while I'm there. sometimes if I'm shooting something for her and you may agree with this too but like that when I'm shooting something it like takes a week to get into it and then all of a sudden I'm there so sometimes it's like a combo pack of the two things that you said where it's like I know that I can access this I know where this like lives in my body and like through Judy but like I go and I'm like oh now I'm seeing like what they want from it and I'm also like now here and I'm saying the words out loud and I'm seeing like how they're coming out of my mouth and like if they're feeling real or not and like the best version is like when I don't really have to, the best version is like that there's enough of me in it that I don't have to work so hard to get there.

And it's like just the version of me that this person is. And when it's a great script, like Eric Leroux is such a great script. It was actually a play that they turned into a movie that like it was so easy. Like I didn't have to do any like tricks. It's just like being in those scenes was so. was just like on the page because I didn't have to like make up things. Also I think it depends.

I mean, he's never asked me this, but I'm going to answer it too. Good. I think it also depends on the, you can have it one way when you're by yourself and when you're reading the script. And when you get into a dynamic with the other people, you're then intersecting with the people that they're creating.

I did a Jim Jarmouche movie last year, and it was me and Adam Driver. Like most of all my scenes was me and Adam Driver and also Tom Waits. I had this whole idea. And like I worked with, I worked with my coach. Like,

shout out to Ren Bell. Like I worked with Ren and like we like had it. And like, ooh, we're gonna do it. Like this is a little bit lighter touch, myam. And like,

okay, now we're gonna do like a little bit more intense. And like, what if Jim Jarmouche wants like a really deeply quirky? You know, I had all the options open. And then like the first time I sat at a table reading, I was like,

oh, Adam has a whole way that he's doing this character. Mine doesn't match it anymore. Right. Right. And I'm going to follow his lead. Like just, you know,

good hunch. but it became a different amalgamation of the things that I thought, the things that I worked on. And then the things that it becomes when you're then in the dynamic and it's 25 degrees and you're wearing the boots and the hand warmers and you're standing outside in the cold and that's like everything kind of takes on its own. But it is. It's a matrix that you're in. It's not just, you know, kind of you by yourself. Because you like can like you can prepare as much as you can prepare. But then like, like, Like when you get there, and this is why preparation is so important, that you have something that you can hold on to if you need to. But you can let go and, like, no, I had,

and learning to be better at letting director, like, a director, like, tell me the tone. Because, like, like, back to being codependent. It's, like, I know what I'm doing. Like, but, like, it's a director's job to make sure that, like, like, I am in the same movie as everybody else, that we're all making the same movie that my movie is not different from his movie which is hard though because as a comedic actress right and especially like if you've done for me like I do television like going from a television set to a Jim Jarmouche set I was like do why am I here like what is happening

because I'm used to like everything happening really quickly you've got three seconds to process like once the camera switches to you you've already gone through the process you can deliver the punchline yeah it's very different um before we let you go and you mentioned Taylor Swift like we have to talk about it. Let's. I'd like to know. Yeah, what's your, what's your Taylor Swift story? Did you just happen to understand that she became like part of the vernacular of music and it just clicked with you?

Do you have a specific like connection point? The pandemic. Oh. I think it was folklore. Folklore. I've been a fan. Like I loved her music. but when folklore came out,

I think I'm ashamed to say was when I'd just say, like I kind of, like, had really a lot of respect for her as an artist, more so than a machine. And I think I'm ashamed to think of her as like a machine leading up to that, especially like when you start to like learn about like

that she writes, like just everything she does. The documentary was very helpful for me. Also the cat in the backpack. Thank you. but the but like when folklore came out it was just was more my kind of music and and also I just thought it was so beautiful and like I just I don't know you know also we were home and I just listen to it like over and over and over and then like I said I'd already loved the previous stuff but then I went back and like really like dove back in and then when she came to town I took my stepdaughter and we went to to see her and it was like this really like I remember at one point in Emily's 28 now so whatever 26 or something but she looked at me and she was like I feel like I'm watching my entire childhood unfold in front of me like during the concert which I was like wow for this girl like

for my Emily like this is her life because she probably doesn't totally remember when there wasn't this like for her own choice. of her own music, I mean. You know what I mean? Not just like listening to what her dad It's the voice of a generation that then literally. And watching her and like seeing that through her eyes was really cool. And so and I love like, no, why can we just love her? Oh, I do. I mean, me too. I mean, we switched over to Taylor's version. We only listened to Taylor's version now. Obviously. I know. And but like we had to buy all those records. It was not cheap. It was not cheap to be as Swiftie.

No. That moment in time. Yeah. I was wanting to touch on that. Yeah. And I think it's really special. Yeah, I did a show, after Big Bang Theory, I did a show for three years called Call Me Cat, and it was about a woman who runs a cat cafe.

Yes. Yes, you did. We kept, like, dropping Swifty hints, but like we couldn't get a retweet. We'll just keep trying. I know, but. Let's never stop dropping hints. I feel like, I mean, look, I was a very different kind of TV. icon in my teens, like very different TV.

I'm not comparing myself to Taylor Swift. I grew up next to you. Well, we're the same age. Hello. But part of me is kind of fascinated by this, you know, her as a generational movement, you know. Yes. Who was our? I think she and I need to be in conversation.

I don't know why. She's not here. If she does hers with Will Whel Whiten, I will be so pissed. If Will gets to do it with Taylor Swift, I will never not do that. And I'll be like Judy Greer looks so much like Taylor Swift and Will Wheaton. But like, who was our Taylor Swift? Madonna? Well, here's the thing.

For us, no, it was Ani DeFranco. It was the girl left out of all the parties. And Alanis was also like, yeah, we like smoke cigarettes and we're like, and Taylor Swift is the girl who gets invited to all the parties and still gets to say it still sucks to be objectified. It still sucks to be, you know, but it's a very different lens than our generation, which was like, I got long hair. I don't shave, you know. Like, if you don't like me, I'm going to make you not like me. Correct. Like, I'm not even going to try.

Right. No, it was, our generation was like Nirvana was counterculture. Like, urban outfitters didn't exist. We just, like, shopped at Ardvarks because, like, you could get $5 clothing. I know. Oh, my God. Thank you for that. You're welcome.

Anytime. I remember there was an urban outfitters in Ann Arbor, Michigan, which I would go to sometimes, like, just to go to the coffee shop and the beads store, duh. even though it took me like 40 minutes to get there and there was an urban outfitters there and I remember thinking like if I could buy clothes here one day I'll never need anything ever again

like if I could only shop here and then I remember taking again with my stepdaughter I took her to New York City for the first time to see Wicked on Broadway when she was in high school and she wanted to go to the urban outfitters in New York City and I was like there's like so many things like we have urban outfiters

at the mall at home but it was like but I also understood like the comfort of like seeing the thing that I know in this new place and and then I loved Urban Outfitters so much. Um, some things don't really change. But yes, that's right. It was, it was like, Ani DeFrank. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just thinking of like, oh, my God. By the way, we, a couple years ago. Before she was married to Paul Simon. Yeah, when she like made awesome. I saw her at the Willtern. Me too. I was there. What? We were probably, we were probably there at the same time. probably holding hands and hugging at the same time. Did you get the t-shirt? I don't have the

t-shirt, but I have the music book because I used to play it on piano and bass guitar. We, my husband pulled that out of a, we were in a record store in San Francisco, not too long ago, and he pulled out, and he was like, do we have, like, we should have this, right? And I was like, and so we bought it. Yep. And every time someone came over to our house, we would be like, oh, we just got this record. And then, like, we would put it on in conversation, and eventually the conversation would stop and it would just be like a full hour of all of us just like

yes yeah it's different very different it's been such a pleasure to talk to you I don't want to go I know but it's time to go you have to return to your other iteration of the universe that exists outside of this room thank you so much we

we hope that people will check out Eric Leroux anything else you want to tell people about that they should look to look for I mean, I'm just so excited about Eric Leroux. I mean, I also just want to, like, shamelessly plug, like, indie film and going to movie theaters. That's wrapped up in my campaign for seeing this movie and the story that's being told in the performances, but also just, like, if you have two hours, we'll wait and I'm thinking of you right now. I know he had two hours.

This morning. I was just pleased. And if it's not even, just please go to the movies. Please. Thank you so much. Thank you. Really great to talk to you. I don't want to put too much pressure on Judy to talk about this in depth.

But I wanted to talk a bit more about what she said about sort of feeling, you know, a sense of trauma after doing days and days of a very emotionally intense work. You know, I think to some extent, obviously, you can fool the brain. and, you know, I think of, you know, being a performer as kind of an elaborate, you know, dissociative identity disorder. You are taking on another persona. And I think about actors who are method, you know, actors who stay in character, right? Daniel Day Lewis famously does this. Name another, Gary Oldman, Leonardo DiCaprio, we've heard, does it. I don't know if I've heard of any females that are methody. But that notion of really immersing yourself, I have a friend who's Australian and when she works on a film

where she doesn't need to use that accent, even off camera, she sometimes cannot get her Australian accent back. Like you're putting yourself in a different milieu, as it were. There have been studies of people who have multiple identities where one of the identities will have a certain health problem that another one doesn't. Yeah, blood pressure changes, all these things. The brain doesn't know the difference.

So I think there's a whole area for actors in terms of resetting out of a role to sort of re-establishes, who they are on their baseline. Have you ever been in a relationship where you felt like you were a different version of yourself? And when you left... Or they were a different version of themselves. Or when a relationship ended that you had to recalibrate, that you had to re-remember the things that you enjoy, the things that you like doing. A lot of us discard, you know, personal progress or hobbies when we're immersed in a relationship, especially a codependent one.

It was kind of making me think, gosh, we're all sort of in different states of fluidity. actors do it for the entertainment of other people. And, you know, for thousands of years, we have enjoyed people making us laugh. We have enjoyed poking fun at things that don't make sense in society with satire and these sorts of things. So it is something that we're kind of ingrained to be interested in watching other people do. And for the viewer, it can be very cathartic to see someone going through something. It can help you process. But at what cost? Very good question. Um, such, such a treat to get to talk to Judy Greer. I've kind of like seen her in things like

here and there and all over, but I've never really listened to interviews with her and just feel like we got such a special opportunity to talk to her. Stuff about alcohol was fascinating to me. Um, and her insight, um, about aging, especially in the industry. I just really, really appreciate it. So, um, that's it from our breakdown to the one who hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's my and Bialyx breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience It's Ph.D. or two? One, fix you. And now she's going to break down.