Media Storm - Rape Off The Record: The price of open justice

Episode Date: June 13, 2024

This investigation contains discusses of rape, sexual assault, and suicide which some listeners might find distressing. If you need someone to talk to, you can call the Samaritans on 116 123 or Rape Crisis on 0808 500 2222. Warning: strong language Media Storm’s first series featured an investigation into ‘Rape justice: ‘What happens to the 98%?', when we discovered the fates of the many reported rapes that never make it to trial. Today, we speak to “the lucky ones” - the 2% of victims who get the chance to go to court. Or do they? Many are pushed to leave the courtroom and miss the bulk of their trial… and then they must pay tens of thousands of pounds to find out what happened inside. Are government contractors getting rich off of victims’ suffering? Or is someone trying to hide something? This is an investigation into the transparency of the UK’s justice system, and the treatment of women and victims during rape and sexual assault trials. Links: Discover the campaign: ‘Open Justice For All’ Listen to our original investigation Support Media Storm investigations on Patreon Speakers: Juliana Terlizzi @juterlizzi Charlotte @charlottschreu Open Justice For All @openjustice4all @openjusticeforall Hosts: Mathilda Mallinson @mathildamall Helena Wadia @helenawadia Music: Samfire @soundofsamfire Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode contains discussions of rape, sexual assault, suicide and also contains strong language. If you are struggling with your mental health, you can call Samaritans on 116-123. If you need someone to talk to about sexual violence, you can call rape crisis on 0808-500-222-2. Hi Media Stormers. Newcomers to MediaStorm may not have had the chance to hit the road with us yet on one of our investigations when we dive into underreported issues affecting underrepresented groups. If you haven't, you need to get involved with our back catalogue. We explore unseen corners of society, from sex worker resistance cells to reformed neo-Nazi anti-recruiterers, to drug dealers to much more.

We meet the people populating them and discover the roles they all play in our lives. One of our very first investigations asked the unasked question in rape justice, what happens to the 98%. We trace the fates of the vast majority of rapes that never make it to trial, but are ultimately abandoned by law enforcement. And afterwards, we spoke to the amazing Gina Martin and Dr. Leila Hussain about the mainstream media's role in contributing to this culture in which most sexual offenders walk free.

The investigation pointed to discriminatory attitudes held by juries as a significant factor in why it's so difficult to convict. I wonder whether Gina or Leila, you think that the media contributes to myths and stereotypes and discriminatory attitudes of this kind. I think it definitely does. I think so many of the problems we have are the very people, who experience the thing aren't at the helm

of being able to drive the narrative about the thing. And while we're talking about the media propagating these rape myths and stereotypes, I want to talk a bit about the phrase non-consensual sex. Non-consexual sex

propagates so many myths. Maybe the biggest myth being that rape is about sex and not necessarily about power and control and violence. There's also the phrase underage women,

which frustrates me no end. I don't know if I'm going crazy here, but there's no such thing as an underage woman. You're a girl, a minor, or a woman, and there's almost this grace afforded to perpetrators where the term underage woman is used rather than child or girl. It's unbelievable. Call it for what it is. The fact that you haven't consented, it's rape.

Full stop, the term child marriage comes up all the time. And I'm like, how is a child marriageable? Does it make sense? So the language we use, what it does, it makes it a little bit okay because, you know, we respect the constitution of marriage. Like, where is this language created, right? It's not created from like regular working people on the street talking about the issue.

It's coming from the top down. There's a need to soften the language because we feel complicit somehow in all these different things. And then it trickles down into society. And it's only when it gets to us that we go, hang on, that's not what we're talking about here. Why are you calling it that? Because you're making it seem normal to be.

as if it's an accepted part of society, that's something that just happens instead of something super, super violent. Also, we always release the stats of how many women and girls have been violated, but not the statistics of how many men are the perpetrators. Yeah. You never see that stats anywhere.

Because then we can see the problem. We don't see the stats of the perpetrators. That was Gina Martin and Dr Leila Hussein. Scroll back to series one for that episode. At Media Storm, we always, always try to look at solutions. But when you're up against a statistic like that, 98% of rape investigations disappearing into nothing,

those solutions can start to seem a little elusive. Because rape culture is just that, a culture, for which responsibility lies in every sector of society. We're all part of it, reinforcing it or reacting against it all the time, in small everyday acts or in big, sweeping movements. And that's why it's so important to talk about sexual violence as a cultural problem, however elusive it makes the solutions, because it emphasises the role we all play. And with that said, it's also a system problem. We can trace some of it to tangible problems

in the system, man-made problems, for which there are man-made solutions. Or women-made solutions in most cases, let's be honest. I mean, that's certainly the case in this story. Yeah. Although male listeners, that is not an excuse for you guys to check out. On the contrary, we speak first to you because, let's be real, women made solutions tend to get a lot further when they're presented by men as their own ideas. Yep. Right. Okay, Matilda, so tell us what is the simple problem with such a simple solution that we'll be looking at today? The problem is how costly it currently is for victims to access their own court. transcripts, i.e. written records of what was said in the 2% of reported rape cases that actually make it to the courtroom. You see, for a range of reasons, victims of rape and serious sexual assault may want a record of what went on in their trials. Yeah, of course. It can help them achieve

closure to understand the outcome, especially if somebody is found not guilty, which as we explored in our last investigation, is so difficult to establish. in instances of rape due to the inherent lack of court-approved evidence. Yeah, no, closure's a huge factor. And I also guess they would want to know what's happening in those trials to assure them that lawyers and judges can be held accountable if they don't follow the proper course of the law or if they say inappropriate things during the trial because we've all heard horror stories about how rape victims get treated in court.

Right, I mean, we have an open justice system, that's cool. But there's one reason you might not guess. I mean, I was surprised. And that's because in most cases, transcripts are a survivor's only way of knowing what happens in their trial because they are being pressured by police and by prosecutors not to actually attend their own trial other than for cross-examination. Why? Why? Why on earth? I mean, I was confused and, you know, I sort of speculated about whether it's supposed to. to sway juries.

Or to protect them, maybe. Or to like protect their emotions, maybe. Yeah, or to protect their emotions, exactly. But as we always say, better to just ask the people this is happening to. They are more than capable of advocating for themselves, as we'll find out when we do get to the solutions part of this episode. Okay, so just to backtrack for a second, victims are being told not to witness their own trials.

But if they want to know what happened, And there are written transcripts of everything said that they can access. Mm-hmm. Although they do have to pay for those transcripts themselves. Okay. I mean, that's a bit mean, I guess. But how much are we talking like? Well, how much do you think would be fair?

Well, I think it would be fair if they didn't have to pay for them at all. But I guess if they have to pay maybe like 20 quid, max. Oh, my goodness. I'm talking 20,000 quid. What? Yeah. I've heard a range of prices quoted, the lowest being 7,000 and the highest being 22,000 pounds by one of our sources for the transcript of her daughter's trial. That is the level of in transparency we're talking about here.

I've basically just been shocked into silence. And behind this enterprise is a government contract worth 17 million pounds given to six companies revealed to Media Storm via freedom of information. some of whose accounts show gross profits in the tens of millions. So, is this a situation of companies getting rich off of victims' desperation? Maybe. Or could it come down to something else? Like judicial transparency. If these trials are being kept behind closed doors,

is it because someone wants to keep it that way? I guess we need to take a look inside. You may not like what you see. What do you mean? This happened to me. If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shepherd. If I have to listen to one more grey-faced man with a $2 haircut, explain to me what rape is. You can do anything.

Whatever you want. Grab them by the pussy. We are the corporate. Elsie Smith. Kelly Stewart. Windor and bad. Welcome to Media Storm, the news podcast that starts with the people who are normally asked last. I'm Matilda Malinson.

And I'm Helena Wadia. This week's investigation. Rape off the record. What happens to the 2%. The crime itself was horrific, but how I was dealt with by the police and the justice legal system was much worse. Media storm old-timers may remember

one of our very first investigations. Rape justice. what happens to the 98%. What the government did and didn't do in those cases show such a severe neglect to the criminal point. In it, we explored the fates of the vast majority of rape investigations that are dropped by police or prosecutors without ever making it to trial.

Today, we look at the remaining 2%, those that make the final bid. for justice. When I found out that he'd been charged, I couldn't believe it. I remember writing something like Karma's finally come to visit him. And I felt really strong and I felt really proud of myself. And I knew that he'd been violent to other women. I knew that he, according to the police, is a persistent perpetrator of domestic abuse. And so I felt like I was doing it for other women, I felt I was one of the lucky ones. Today, we talked to the lucky ones and find out why beating the odds may not always be a win. Like so many other people, I reported him to protect other people and going to court, it didn't

protect anybody. This is an investigation into how victims and how women are treated by the institutions responsible for justice. I'm in a much, much worse place now than I was in. even leading up to the trial, because leading up to the trial I felt hopeful. This is an investigation into transparency, a question whether open justice truly exists. Many victims have come to us and told us it does not. They tell us, rape and sexual assault victims are pressured by prosecutors and the police

not to witness their own trials. There is no way to watch these trials from outside the courtroom. But trials are recorded and transcribed, so if they ever want to know what happened in their trial, all they have to do is get the transcript, except they have to pay for it themselves. And let me give you a moment to guess how much you think that should cost. How much did your transcript cost? 7,500 pounds for a 10-day trial. We were quoted 22,000.

Around £7,000. It's shocking. Yeah, it just feels too much, especially to pay for something that is going to be quite traumatising, and it just feels like a kind of slap in the face. Even if they can and do purchase the transcripts of their own trials, these can come with unexplained redactions.

They've told me we cannot have two hours. Exclusions that conceal not just what the defendant said, but lawyers and judges too I have a bit of a stammer I mean I only that only started once I reported it to the police I never had a stammer before

but sometimes when I'm talking about this I do stammer yeah it's a trauma response I've been told well then you know I think it might be an important part of the story yeah yeah yeah okay Shanade

she asks me to give her a pseudonym Sheenade. As she shares with me the story of her past relationship, one she describes as coercive and characterised by rape. Like every woman we speak to in this investigation, Shanade was told by authorities not to attend her trial except for her own cross-examination. I was advised by the investigating officer that no one's ever wanted to listen to the rest of the trial. I was told it would look odd. I just felt that it was something that they didn't approve of. Like I was being difficult, you know, for wanting to sit and listen to what was being said about me.

And so I just did as I was told. You said that you were told no one else would want to sit on on their case, but I've spoken to a number of women who did want to sit on on their case and were given the same advice. They just said it wouldn't look good for the jury to see you there. Yeah, but the jury might look at you like you're not scared or you're not a victim. Of course, you're very vulnerable and you do everything you can to abide by the rules. So do you feel that you were pressured into not wanting it and do you feel it was the right decision for you looking back? I definitely felt under pressure not to and because I've not seen the transcripts and because the CPS have not answered all my questions, in hindsight, yes, I wish I was there.

I was told also that for my own well-being, it would be better if I wasn't there. I've since decided that I know what's best for my well-being, not a police officer. know what's best for my well-being because my well-being has been hugely impacted by not being informed. And whose well-being do you actually think it was for you not being in the trial? It was probably better for the jury that I wasn't there. They had to make obviously a very difficult decision and I would imagine it was much better for the defendant that I wasn't there because I didn't listen to all his lies. So he was able to lie without me being there. It was better for the judge

I just feel it was better for everybody that I was out of the way it was almost like a we know best you go home dear and have a cup of tea and when we've made all these very important decisions we'll let you know so you just go home and you know just be good

I was at home I got a phone call from my Soit who was in court She just said, I'm really sorry. It was not guilty. I am I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I stummer now as a kind of, it's a trauma response. I didn't use to stammer. I never stammered before, but whenever I talk about this, I, I, I stammer.

I remember asking her, well, what kind of protection will I have? have now because he's not on bail anymore and she said you won't have any that must have been devastating and I'm sure that you were confused about how that had happened in the trial were you aware at that time that you wouldn't really get to know what led to that sentence I was really confused that nobody from the CPS or the prosecutor there was no conversation and I was like I mean I was in shock and actually I think I still am in shock even though it's nearly two years later it feels strange knowing that anybody sitting in the public gallery could know more about my case than I do surely I can't be the only person that has questions after a trial so I wrote to the CPS and I had

lots of questions and eventually I was told very patronisingly it's not useful to speculate I found the whole process quite controlling the CPS, use similar tactics to my abuser, which is to not answer questions that they don't like and to gaslight you. So I was very familiar with that kind of behaviour and I found it very, very triggering because I'd left a relationship where that happened.

And then, you know, three years later, I'm dealing with the CPS and guess what? They're doing it too. And they're getting paid for it. Do you feel that if you were able to access those transcripts and to read what happened, that it would bring you some closure? It would bring me some closure because right now I don't know, I don't know anything. I don't know how he was questioned. I don't know whether the judge was fair.

I have no idea. It would be very traumatising to read it, but at least I'd be informed. Maybe I'd think, oh, the judge was fair. The prosecutor really did, you know, he was good. I don't know. You know, I don't know what anybody said. I don't know anything. Victims do have the right to attend their trials

if they're bold enough to ignore officials' advice, but they may still be left with questions. I want my court transcripts to be able to even understand what went on during the trial. I have no recollection. It was such a traumatic experience. I was so nervous. I was so stressed. I was next to him.

For me, the court transcripts would be essential to process everything that happened and get closure and move on. Juliana Terlizzi was instrumental in bringing a rapist to justice after her boyfriend assaulted her in 2020. Today is the anniversary of when the sexual assault happened four years ago.

For what he did to her, he is currently serving an 18-year prison sentence. He says in the first of, video, I'm completely raping you while we're asleep and unconscious and making a video of it as well. Given the evidence, a video recording, in which he raped her while verbally bragging about raping her, Juliana thought a guilty verdict would be a given. It's shocking what barristers are allowed to say to victims. I have a few recollection of the most traumatic moments for me.

For example, when his barrister tried to argue. that because I was unconscious, the rape wasn't traumatic at all. Oh, she started the cross-examination saying, you love sex, don't you? And I said, yes, I enjoy sex, but does that mean that I get to be raped by my boyfriend? They will try to humiliate you and intimidate you and spark any kind of doubt in the jury.

I'm like, how can you deny something happen if it's on video? I just thought that the whole process was a waste of public money. I had to have my life on hold for two freaking years just waiting, just waiting, not going out, scared. I couldn't get treatment because the barristers could ask for my therapy notes and use that against me. There is a lack of accountability to those working in the legal system,

and that needs to change. I would like to have evidence of how I would treat it. of how I would treat it in the courtroom. Neither Chenade nor Juliana could afford their transcripts, and they have been left without the answers they so desperately seek. I'm so stuck. I still suffer from PTSD. I still have difficulties leaving my house, and I feel like I've been denied the right to heal.

But desperate people go to desperate measures. I wanted the transcript, because I really wanted to see what had gone on and why my daughter was suicidal after giving evidence. Hell hath no fury like a mother scorned, and thanks to one such mother, Media Storm has been given access to a transcript that reveals what's happening in these trials. You mentioned that your daughter was suicidal. Was that as a result of the cross-examination in the trial, or was it a result of the events that had led to the trial?

It was because of how she was treated in the trial. I wanted to understand the questioning that would make somebody feel so bad. about themselves. We're also using a pseudonym for Victoria since we'll be quoting painful moments from her daughter's trial and want to protect her privacy. And how much did your transcript cost? We were quoted 22,000. 22,000 pounds.

She showed us the breakdown given to her by the company that transcribed her daughter's trial after the original 22,000 pounds was reduced because another buyer paid for the transcription of some of those pages. The final quote charges 10.7,000 pounds for 15 days of the trial consisting of 280 pages of transcription. That's 40 pounds per page. And when I look through the transcripts, I'm surprised to see each page consists of a couple dozen lines of dialogue only. So it's about two pounds for every single statement said in the trial. You can see how that really starts to rack up. And it's worth adding that 20% of this cost is VAT, meaning victims must not only pay for their own transcripts, they must also pay tax on those transcripts. Through freedom of

information, Media Storm has a list of companies contracted by the government to deliver court transcripts. We've analysed the financial records of one of the top providers, which imply their charging buyers four to five times what it costs them to produce their services. These are remarkably high, impressive, profit margins. The Hulu original series Murdoch Death and the Family dives into secrets, deception, murder, and the fall of a powerful dynasty. Inspired by shocking actual events and drawing from the hit podcast, this series brings the drama to the screen like never before.

Starring Academy Award winner Patricia Arquette and Jason Clark. Watch the Hulu original series Murdoch Death in the Family, streaming October 15th on Disney Plus. What did your ancestors really do all day? Beyond names, what were their lives like? With Ancestry's global historical records, you can discover incredible stories about how your ancestors lived and worked, and for a limited time, you can explore select occupation records for free.

Imagine finding your great-grandfather's RCMP records, Discovering your ancestors' name in the UK and Ireland Nursing Register. Don't miss out. Free access ends August 24th. Visit Ancestry.ca for more details. Terms apply. I'm reading through the transcription of Victoria's daughter, and it's tough to read,

because it plays into pretty much every victim-blaming trope I would script if I was writing a parody about patriarchy. One by one, the prosecutor lists off to the jury all of the dating apps Victoria's daughter has been on. He proceeds to ask her about her history with other men, including the exchanging of photographs. He presses her about her sexual fantasies and whether she's ever expressed an interest in BDSM. The hardest part reading this is the extreme distress tangible in the daughter's words, even just reading them on paper. she's made to feel like she has to defend her right not to be raped with statements like I was never that wild sexually she has made to feel like she must justify her decision to send

suggestive photos by saying I was very insecure and yet in spite of this humiliating treatment Victoria's daughter does at times find the courage to stand up for herself she says someone can want to have sex one day and the next day say no, it isn't okay. She says, do you know what? You can have an interest in exploring things. When the relationship becomes very violent, it doesn't mean it's okay. It feels like the front line of the victim-blaming debate is happening in courts between women who say that they've been attacked and the lawyers defending the accused. And what came from this line of questioning?

It was three rapes, three ABHs and coercion and control, and he was found guilty of coercion and control. Nothing else. He'd been on remand, been let out on bail, and kept breaking his bail condition. So actually, he only had seven days left to do by the time he was sentenced. I would really like to talk to this judge and say, how could you put someone through this?

Victoria does not feel justice was served, but she won't take it lying down. I'm standing outside Liverpool Crown Court. It's freezing. It's blowing a gale and I'm not enjoying it at all. I'm outside the Warwickshire Crown Court, which is in Leamington Spa. I thought what can I do? So I thought I would go and visit every Crown Court in England this year and stand outside with my flag saying hold judges to account. Six crown courts down, another 62 to go. I think it's my way of kind of coping with this terrible situation. It's done terrible things to our family.

You know, I just believe it's so wrong at end of, you know, yeah. Now the core issue here isn't just the healing process of the victims, though that certainly is cause in itself. This is a question of transparency in justice. Hello, look who's coming to lie. Hey, Freddy. She's a therapy dog. So for listeners who pick up on any interesting snoring sounds,

that's just Freddy having a snooze in Charlotte's lap. Which takes us on to our final story. And some lessons in how, if you've been so moved by these stories, you can get involved. I would have been 23 first job straight out of uni. This man who, how should I refer? As long as there's no identity details, you can call him whatever you want.

The cunt bag. Yeah, you can call him the cunt bag. We were in a relationship for two and a half years, and he abused me throughout that period. Introducing Charlotte. I want to have my court transcript because through some notes that the CPS gave me, the judge apparently said that I was unreliable because I waited eight months to report the crime,

and I want to hold her accountable for such misconception. And how much would it have cost you to access that transcript? Well, I was actually seen in a magistrate's court, so they don't even record your actual trial there. So I wasn't able to get them because they don't have them. In the UK, magistrates courts deal with supposedly less serious criminal offence than Crown courts. They hear cases without a jury. Can you explain to us, Charlotte, why your trial took place

in a magistrate's court? So my perpetrator was charged with course of control. The crime of rape was dropped. The crime of course of control is a either way offence and that means that it can be seen in a crown court or a magistrate's court and the defendant gets to pick which one he wants to go to. What was the ultimate sentence?

He was found not guilty. He walked out of that court that day. The police and the CPS refused any. restraining orders. The judge said, you spoke to other victims of domestic abuse so you knew exactly what to say. Why are they saying such awful things about victims? I want answers. Now when I spoke to the courts about the lack of availability of transcripts, the issue that they raised was financial and the costs of getting transcripts. In your view, are there other reasons that court transcripts are not easily accessible.

Judges don't want the transcripts to get out because they can do and say what they want and they are literally protected. The wider issue is the entire criminal justice system. We call it an open justice system, but it's not. We know that regularly people are stopped from watching it in a gallery. They won't hand out a live link. If you ask for your transcripts, a judge can say,

say no. If you're heard in a magistrate's court, there are no transcripts. And that brings us on to your campaign. Will you tell us about open justice? Yes, a couple of victims and survivors and myself started a campaign called Open Justice for all. We're actually on a WhatsApp group raging about all of the things that happened within all of our trials. And I decided to set up a petition to get transcripts for free. At that point, the Clare, the London Victims Commissioner, picked up and said, you know, this is something I've been campaigning for for the Victims Bill. The Victims Bill is a piece of proposed legislation that London's Victims Commissioner, Claire Waxman, began campaigning for more than a decade ago. It is designed to enshrine victims' rights into law so that if they are violated, consequences must be paid.

It is finally making its way through Parliament. But last month, both the Conservatives and Labour opposition refused to back an amendment to the bill that would allow victims of rape and sexual assault to get free transcripts and summaries of even parts of their trials. The cost to the government is given as their reason. The Ministry of Justice told Media Storm that they have announced a pilot scheme

enabling victims of rape and other serious sexual offences to request Crown Court sentencing remarks free of charge. Sentencing remarks summarise the main points of the case, but they are only produced after guilty verdicts, leaving 40% of victims alleging rape without any recourse. The pilot scheme does not include magistrates courts. So what do the victims think should be done? There's a couple of asks in there,

with one of them being free court transcripts. The other request we're making is magistrates to start recording trials. We want the CPS and the police to stop advising people not to attend their own trials. What we need is as much backing as possible. So the way that anyone can help is to go onto the website, which is openjusticeforall.com, and use the pre-written template to write to your MP. For listeners, we will post the website in the show notes.

below and share links on our social media. Reporting a crime like rape and coercive control is often more traumatising than the actual crime itself. The way that victims are treated in courts are vile. You are constantly chasing answers. You're always one step behind the perpetrator and they are being treated better than the victims are. We need to support our victims better,

but the way that the system is at the moment, I would never ever report a crime again. Before we leave you today, we just wanted to share that all of the women you've heard from in this episode are working together in a campaign calling for open justice, for them, for me, for you, open justice for all. It's just amazing that a group of women who have been touched in one way or the other through violence have been able to unite and call for this change. Thank you so much for giving us the opportunity to speak about this. We couldn't be able to if there wasn't anyone listening.

Thank you so much for listening. Before we go, here's a shout out to our Patreon supporters for making investigations like today's possible. If you valued this episode, please consider supporting us following the Patreon link in the show notes. Funds go directly towards our investigations and we've got a few of those cooking, some mini ones like today,

as well as a great, big, juicy one, which will be hitting this feed as a limited series. And at MediaStorm, we really mean it when we say that every penny counts. So thank you to all our patrons and thank you to our new supporters at Gollhanger and thank you all for listening. Follow MediaStorm wherever you get your podcast

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