Media Storm - S1E6 Fatphobia: Healthcare by size - with Stephanie Yeboah and Essie Dennis

Episode Date: January 27, 2022

Media Storm presented by Mathilda Mallinson and Helena Wadia Read the transcript: https://mediastormpodcast.com/2022/02/08/1-6-fatphobia-healthcare-by-size-with-stephanie-yeboah-and-essie-dennis/ Content warning: Fatphobia, disordered eating Being told to lose weight is almost unavoidable. The news, TV shows, films, adverts and your family & friends mostly prescribe to the same school of thought: that being fat is 'bad', and that being thin is 'good'. But it turns out: that's not true. This episode, we look into weight bias in healthcare and how fatphobia in medical settings is putting the lives of plus size people in danger - especially those with the reproductive condition endometriosis. Plus, we're joined in the studio by Stephanie Yeboah and Essie Dennis to discuss how the mainstream media depicts plus size people and what needs to change, and how we can stop diet culture from stripping away the joys of everyday life.  Speakers (in order of appearance):  Helena Burton-Jones @helena_mbj Katherine Irene @katherineirenecoaching Professor Rachel Batterham @ProfBatterhamMD @ObesityEmpower Stephanie Yeboah @stephanieyeboah Essie Dennis @khal_essie Sources: Royal College of Physicians course: https://store.rcplondon.ac.uk/product?catalog=Raising-the-topic-and-discussing-obesity-with-patients US Department of Health and Human Services Office of Minority Health: https://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/omh/browse.aspx?lvl=4&lvlid=25  The epidemiology of overweight and obesity: public health crisis or moral panic https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/35/1/55/849914 Why are there race/ethnic differences in adult body mass index–adiposity relationships? A quantitative critical review https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4968570/  Endometriosis UK: https://www.endometriosis-uk.org/endometriosis-facts-and-figures  Get in touch: Follow us on Twitter http://twitter.com/mediastormpod or Instagram https://www.instagram.com/mediastormpod or Tiktok https://www.tiktok.com/@mediastormpod like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/MediaStormPod send us an email [e-mail] check out our website https://mediastormpodcast.com Music by Samfire @soundofsamfire.  Media Storm is brought to you by the house of The Guilty Feminist and is part of the Acast Creator Network. Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/media-storm. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Matilda, do you remember the first time that you became aware of body image or of your body and what it looked like? It's hard to, I'm kind of pinpoint me early because it was so present throughout being a teenager. But you know what? It was probably ballet because I did a lot of ballet at a young age. I did it at the Royal Academy of Dance and we would have comments made about our weight fairly often. and particularly by one teacher. You know, the classic ballet pose, you have to tuck your tummy in and have as flat a pose as possible.

And she'd say things like, oh, that's not easy to do with a food pouch around your belly. Yeah, or things like you don't want wobbly bits when you're trying to balance. And this is an environment in which you were really competing for any praise. They didn't dish it out. And when your body was a factor in that praise,

people started to become competitive about bodies. And yeah, I mean, I'm talking, you know, I don't know, age seven or eight or something. Wow. I'm sure a lot of people have very similar stories. I have very similar stories. I went to an all-girls school and looking back on it, disordered eating was rife. There was a time where there was a fad for only eating a bowl of cereal a day.

And it was almost like a competition of how little you could eat. Yeah, same. And we thought that was normal. But the issue was I felt like no one was telling me it wasn't normal because being thin was like currency. It was like the best thing you could be. Yeah, and the media did nothing to challenge that. Whether that was in TV shows like Friends, which we all loved,

you know, Fat Monica, her Fatness is the entire joke. Or films with the fat best friend trope or the news reporting on the war on obesity, there was such a huge onset of media telling us to be smaller. Absolutely. And now it really takes years and years of unlearning to address these biases that we all have inside of us. And we have to address that anti-fat bias exists everywhere

and has very real life consequences. Like, did you know that plus size candidates are less likely to be hired for a job? And of those currently employed, they're also less likely to be privileged. promoted. So this really manifests in workplace. I wonder how else it's systemically present, this fat phobia. Well, I've also been finding out that there are many doctors, nurses and general healthcare providers who hold these biases because they've also been raised in a time

of panic about fatness. So I've been speaking to plus size people about their experiences with health care and what, if anything, is being done to address medical fat phobia. And I'll see you back in the studio with some very special guests to discuss everything around this media storm. Of the government's strategy to tackle obesity. It's a great fat hulking model. You should, if you're unhealthy as a body, you should not be celebrating. Rapid weight loss is a much more accepted thing to do.

Childhood obesity at record high level acceptance brigade. There is a virus out there to which you could. be susceptible if you don't lose weight. Welcome to MediaStorm, the news podcast that starts with the people who are normally asked last. I'm Helen Wardia. And I'm Matilda Mallinson. This week's investigation.

Fat phobia. Healthcare by size. So this wasn't how I was going to start this investigation, but I'm walking through a London Underground station to get a train. and I've already seen three adverts for some kind of a weight loss app or food plan in the like one minute I've been here. Okay, I've just got on the tube and I'm literally sitting in front of another advert. Being told to lose weight is almost unavoidable.

TV shows, films, adverts, your family, your friends have often all prescribed to the same school of thought for years, that fat is unhealthy and that thin is healthy. But what we're not really being told is that that's untrue. And not only that, this rigid line of thinking has real life consequences. I stopped going to my GP. I have put off a lot of appointments. Completely shocked by the way it should be treated.

Just try and deal with it at home now. Weight bias in healthcare refers to harmful attitudes towards people deemed to be overweight. Often it manifests itself in doctors over-attributing all of a plus-sized person's health issues to their weight, even if that's got nothing to do with it. Research has shown that doctors repeatedly advise weight loss for fat patients instead of running appropriate tests, which results in misdiagnosis. I asked plus-sized people to contact me if that had happened to them, and I got a lot of responses. Just a heads up, some of these are voiced by actors as the people behind them wanted to remain an Anonymous. There was always a conversation about my weight. The nurse proceeded to give me weight loss tips.

Whether that was about if I had migraines. The consultant was not interested in any aspect of my health, all the chronic illness, apart from me being fat. I told her I am sensitive to diet talk. He ignored that specific question and returned to my weight. And it still made me cry. He said I played sports, swam, did weights classes, had a low heart rate and blood pressure. It took three or four more questions from me to get him to provide an answer to my original She started telling me what foods I shouldn't, shouldn't eat.

She told me to stay away from cheese, avoid bread as they are bad. He told me he was more concerned about my weight and age than medication. MRI scanners aren't big enough for overweight people. He would not stop or move on to any other subject. Without knowing that I had an underactive thyroid. All those years I was going to the doctor asking for pain. He told me I would need to lose weight. They just advised me to lose weight.

As I spoke to plus size people about their experiences, there was one particular issue that kept cropping up. Endometriosis. Endometriosis. Endometriosis is a condition where tissue similar to the lining of the womb starts to grow outside the uterus, such as in the ovaries and the fallopian tubes. 10% of women worldwide have the condition, and it can affect anyone with the uterus, regardless of their weight. It's a long-term condition that's often very painful and can have a significant impact on a person's life and even cause infertility. I was in so much pain that my entire body went numb and I would just be lying there like completely frightened and not knowing what to do and just pouring buckets of blood basically. According to the charity Endometriosis UK, it takes eight years from the onset of symptoms to get a diagnosis of endometriosis. There's no official data that shows how long it takes if you're plus size.

So we ran a survey with only plus size people and asked the same question to find out. results showed that the average time from onset to symptoms to diagnosis was 11 years. Many of the responses spoke of it taking over 20 years. For Helena Burton-Jones, getting a diagnosis and treatment of endometriosis, took wading through multiple instances of medical fat phobia. Hi, Helena. Hello. It's so weird to take your own name.

It is really weird, but I'm glad there's another Helena. I looked up the symptoms and I realized that there was definitely a correlation. So I went to my GP and I mentioned it. And what he said was, well, it's not that. You've got a bad period because you're overweight. And I said, I don't think it's that because I've had a bad period since I was like 12, 13 years old. And I wasn't overweight growing up. But it took me a full year of seeing him constantly.

I was literally begging him. Like, please give me a referral, please. And he would just wouldn't. He would just be like, no, it's because you're overweight. weight, you need to, and all he would give me a referral for was a nutritionist. He would say things like, there's no point wasting the NHS's time when all you need to do is lose weight. Once you lose weight, if you still have bad periods, then I'll refer you to the NHS. How much is he going to know about the level of pain that's meant to be experienced with a period? You're not, you know,

periods are bad, they're never going to be fun, but they're not meant to be so painful that you can't do stuff. Only in my own experience of having had doctors appointments, pre from when I gained weight and then from when I gained weight the way I was treated was so different and I think it just in terms of like they were just rougher with me and I can't because it wasn't the same doctor each time you can't I can't say definitely that that's because you know I'd gained weight but I did notice like needles were being pushed in like more roughly or like I was being handled more roughly or with less respect or less kindness and that kind of thing. has had similar experiences.

From her first symptoms to confirming endometriosis, it took 17 years. I was too embarrassed to go to the GP, so I went to the nurse, and the nurse said to me, well, you've got to watch your weight now because you're a teenager, you're growing up, you're becoming a woman, and weight is going to be an issue. How old are you then?

I think I was about 12 or 13, so maximum I would have been 13. and I don't ever remember really ever considering my weight before that I ever needed to think about it and yeah so from then on it was always kind of your weight is a problem I remember being told that I just didn't have a very high pain threshold and maybe I should lose weight and I was just like how those two don't don't connect um I got bitten by a horsefly and it like swelled up and my GP took that opportunity to also tell me that I'm overweight and that my BMI is really high and to put me on the scale. And I was like, no, no, you don't have to be weighed every appointment. You don't have

to have that, like, really humiliating then conversation about, well, you're this way, this is your BMI, which also doesn't actually tell you, isn't like an indicator of health in any way to then be told, well, you're at really high risk of diabetes. Never looking at what I'm eating, and never looking at my exercise, just looking at my BMI and going, no, you're obese. What Catherine's talking about here is that BMI, a person's weight in kilograms divided by their height in metres squared, is still used as a measure of health in medical settings. But looking into it, there's quite a few problems. Firstly, BMI wasn't designed by a medical professional.

It was designed by a mathematician in the early 19th century. The person who designed it also said that it was never in. intended for use in individual healthcare, it was a quick tool used to assist the government in population studies. Secondly, when BMI was created, the data used was from white males. So the current BMI cutoff still used today were calculated around white men and don't consider a person's gender or ethnicity, both factors that can affect weight and fact distribution. And so, government policies and treatment access that is based on a person's BMI could adversely affect women and people of colour.

Catherine says she was lucky she knew about the nuances of BMI and could ask not to be weighed. But she says, plus-size people have to constantly advocate for themselves in doctors' appointments and it's tiring. If you want to lose weight, that should be respected. If you don't want to lose weight, that should also be respected. And there should be healthcare available for both of those scenarios. For so long, you can't advocate for yourself because you don't have the language and the understanding and that you know your body, you know there's something wrong. But how do you

vocalise that at like 12, 13? In my 20s, I was like, no, I'm not taking this anymore, have to do something for me. But then, because I had people advocating for me as well, like additional people on top of my family, yeah, it's a wild ride. Helena has also asked not to be weighed at doctor's appointments multiple times. I'd say about like 80% of the time, when they say that they want to weigh me, I say, okay, fine, but don't tell me what it is. And about 80% of the time, they accidentally let it slip, even though I've said, don't tell me. And when you say accidentally, you are saying it's not accidental? I don't think so.

Due to her experiences, Catherine is now a menstrual well-being coach, helping others with their menstrual cycles in a judgment-free zone. She created a space she didn't have at the time she needed it. It's an example of what's being done to ease discrimination in healthcare, but I wanted to see if there was any wider training for GPs. I came across a course from the Royal College of Physicians titled Raising the Topic and Discussing Obesity with Patients. It was created by Professor Rachel Batterham, a doctor who specialises in looking after people who have, and she uses the medical term, severe obesity. She works at University College London and leads weight services at University London College Hospitals. She told me what the course

entails. Our understanding, scientific understanding of the drivers of increased body weight and obesity, its impact upon health and how to treat it, has so changed over the last five to ten years that actually we need to get that knowledge across to all healthcare professionals so that they understand that actually obesity isn't just somebody being greedy, there are complex causes, genetic causes, some of the medical causes, and also health inequalities. And to just say eat less, move more is not helpful. And then there's a whole section on how to discuss weight in an empathetic manner with a patient and how to start off the conversation.

So the first really important point is to ask somebody's permission to talk about their weight. So if they've come to see you for another problem to ask the patient first rather than start talking about a topic if they don't want to talk about it. So it's all about framing it and really thinking about the person

and using person-first language. So somebody is first and foremost the person. But we often say, oh, an obese person. And we'd never say that. It's like saying a cancerous person. You'd say a person living with cancer or a person living with obesity. So actually trying to get the words right and how we talk to patients about their weight in a sort of an empathetic manner as we would with any other health condition. For some reason, obesity is just sort of not managed in the same way and not with the same level of respect and dignity to patients. I asked Professor Bataam what she thinks about one of the main messages that pervade

society, that all fat people are unhealthy and need to lose weight. This was her response. The impact on a person's health depends on where the fat is, depends on their age and depends on lots of different factors. So as a medical professional, my job is to, assess an individual and tell them what the risk of their weight is on their health. So for some people, their health might not be impacted by having higher body weight. But if I see somebody in there at greater risk of type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, stroke, then it's my job as a doctor to explain that. Now, everybody makes choices. We all make choices in our life about what we decide, be it how much alcohol we drink, how much exercise we do, whether we smoke,

whether we drive a car, whether we do high-risk sporting activities. And I think as long as people know what the risk is to their health, then they can make an informed decision. It's up to everybody what body they're happy in. The course Professor Batterham created started in July 2021. The Royal College of Physicians tell me that since the course started, over 750 individuals have enrolled. This person-first empathy-focused course on understanding the multitude of factors behind being plus size is a step to eradicating medical fatphobia. But can one course stand up to a mainstream media that tells us to always be smaller? That takes us back to the studio. Welcome back to the studio and to Media Storm, the podcast that starts with the people who are normally asked last.

Today we are talking about fat phobia, body image and diet culture in the mainstream media. And with us are some very special guests. Our first guest is a journalist, content creator and body image and self-love advocate. She's also the author of Fatally Ever After, a black fat girl's guide to living life unapologetically. and it's the amazing Stephanie Yaboa. Hi guys, thank you so much for having me. Our second guest is an artist and owner of the Body Positive Art Shop, Queer in Color. She's also an author and her book,

Queer Body Power, will be hitting the shelves in March. It's the wonderful Essie Dennis. Hi, Essie. Hi, thanks for having me. So we've heard Helena's investigation into how it is often harder for plus-sized people to receive accurate healthcare. We heard quite a few stories of, doctor's appointments. What are your initial reactions? I think for me, this is something that has been

the bane of a lot of plus-size people's lives for a very, very long time. Me included, I've had quite a bit of experience dealing with doctors who seem to prioritise weight over health. I do think that there does need to be a radical overhaul with regards to how plus-sized patients are treated within the healthcare industry. Essie, especially in regards to endometriosis and kind of how long it took people to be taken seriously, what are your initial reactions? Fat phobia around endometriosis is like a really, really big problem.

I did have an experience, I think it was around November, where I went to a gynecologist, and I was completely doubled over in pain. I was on a lot of different pain medications. I was in a really bad way, and she was just like, So I think a lot of this might be to do with your weight. Have you tried exercising? I ended up just bursting into tears because I was like,

how can you possibly say that to me when I can't even go on like a walk out to the shops these days? Then she was just like, well, I need to weigh you. And I said, well, I prefer if you didn't because I used to have an eating disorder and that makes me uncomfortable. And she was like, no, no, no, I need to weigh you. So she took me out to this like scale, which was like out in front of everyone in like the gynecology ward.

And I just heard people laughing and I was just in like such a state about it. And I went back to my GP and I told her about the whole experience and she was like, that is awful. Like, this is nothing to do with your endometriosis. Like, people of all shapes and sizes have endometriosis and all of us should be able to get care, like, do not let them push you about with this. S.E, it's great that you have a great GP. You know, the majority of experiences that I've heard have not been great.

I wanted to find out what was being done about it, if anything. So I interviewed Professor Batham and she's developed a course on how doctors can raise the topic of a patient's weight when speaking to them and how doctors can better understand the complexities of, and she uses the term obesity, is this the way to target medical fat phobia? Yeah, I think it's a really good idea. Obviously, like the word obesity, like, I'm not sure, like, necessarily how I feel about that and that word being used. It's one of those words that is so cold and clinical and accusatory. If it is the actual case that somebody's weight is directly affecting that condition, then there is a way to speak about these things with

empathy and with care. And a lot of the ways in which doctors talk to patients, unfortunately, and being doctors, you think they would know this. But they really miss the mark when it comes to mental health. That can even lead to eating even more because it's like an emotional response. Let's talk about the language used in the mainstream media around this topic. You mentioned the word obesity. Stephanie, you use the word fat a lot on your social channels. Essie, you use chubby a lot. We spent a lifetime being told that these words were bad or hearing them used in actively hurtful ways. Is using them kind of a reclamation? I mean, I feel very comfortable with, in fact, I use chubby just because it was one of those words that was always used against me.

it's a specific word that for some reason, you know, at school and just with teachers and it's like, oh, she's a bit chubby, isn't she? You know, that was the word that I always got. So I was like, I really want to use that word in a kind of, I'm cute, I'm round, like a cute little raccoon or something. You know, I just want to think of like sweet words, words that make me feel happy and joyful. And I find it very, very liberating. Yeah, I agree. I definitely, um, fat was a word that was used against me. The annoying thing about that word is that it is now literally seen as an insult. so it's not even like a body type. Like people can be short, tall, athletic, lean, what have you.

But the word fat has been so villainised over the years that people automatically associate it with ugliness. I think it will take a very, very long time, maybe like a couple generations from now until we can get to a point where people do feel comfortable using it. But for me, I call myself that. So that's not really, it's not really hitting the way they thought that insult was going to hit

because I am. So what else do you have? Like, if being fat is the worst thing that I can be, then I feel like I'm doing pretty well in my life. Everybody, especially women and marginalized genders and especially fat women and marginalized genders, are constantly bombarded in the media with messages telling us that our bodies are wrong, right? Like in summer, we're told to get a bikini body.

After birth, we're told to get our body back as if it went somewhere. And in the new year, we're told new year, new you. What do you think is really behind those messages? I feel like there's so much to do with consumerism around how we talk about bodies, especially in that way. It's like we have like a new season for clothes and we have a new season for bodies, a capitalist hellscape sort of situation. I'm hearing now that apparently big bums aren't in anymore because I'm on like TikTok and I see kind of younger queer people for instance like kind of follow me and it's just like Kim Kardashian's getting rid of her butt so we have to change our body. But it seems to be from like a very

consumer standpoint. For one, all our bodies, especially, yeah, women and marginalized genders, our bodies are often seen as consumables. And if they're not consumable in some way, you know, like sexually or aesthetically or something, then there's something wrong with them. It is part of a massive money-making machine. If dieting worked, we wouldn't have a new diet or a new fad or a new app every month. And the global value of the weight loss market is over $250 billion. I think it is really important for us to note how much of the mainstream media is involved in selling a dream. A lot of these pieces, these articles are actively e-commerce pieces. If these articles about someone flaunting their bikini curves, has, as the daily mail

articles all do, has a post with the brand of that bikini. Every time someone clicks through, then they get money. Whenever they post about diet regimes and they link through to the trainer or whoever design this diet regime, then the news outlet that's presenting this to you as a piece of reporting gets money for selling the diet product, the fashion product. So I don't think we really acknowledge quite how connected the news media is to that commercial enterprise. And these kinds of diets, like the keto diet, lighter life, liquid only diets, like these are diets that I've also done in my past, it's equivalent to almost to eating disorders. And you have

magazines and publications who like to promote this because it's like they work in in tandem with the diet industry, which makes so much money off of fat phobia. They make so much money off of people's insecurities. They like to create things for us to be insecure about. Bloody hip dips. Why is that a thing? Like I don't understand why this is now part of our general lexicon when it comes to, okay, so your hips dip inwards, that's the literal shape of your pelvis. It goes in, it goes out. Wait, what we're supposed to feel bad about hip dips? Here's the point where I tell you that Matilda is not on social media.

This is why. Yeah, Matilda, we're all meant to feel bad about our hips now. What is a hip dip? The images that mostly appear alongside these articles are of headless, fat, torsos. What kind of message do you feel like this sense? When I was younger, it was a, I think it really affected my feelings towards my own body because I didn't really look at my own body like it was just a whole thing. I'd look at it in parts and I'd look at all the parts that had to be changed.

Just if I could change that little thing, then that would be fine. If I could change all these bits, then this would be fine. And I think that's what it does. Like, it completely dehumanizes fat people. And then it makes you think that your body is just, yes, in selective bits rather than you are a whole human being who's glorious and wonderful and you don't need to somehow look at all these tiny little parts of yourself to change. It's also sending the message as if no fat person would be willing to have their face in a picture because they're like so ashamed

of it. Yeah, no, it's the fact that they always cut the heads off. It's almost like you don't get to have that kind of ownership over our bodies. It gives people more of a reason to be able to give us unsolicited advice and to troll us, to insult us, to abuse us, to oppress us because they don't see us as whole people. They don't see us as whole human beings who have thoughts and feelings and perspectives and can be successful and can be deserving of love and can be healthy. They just see us as these broken parts that need to be fixed. We seem to just exist as people that are constantly insecure or constantly unhappy. There is just simply no way that a fat person can be successful and happy and in love and have a great job.

And so the more that they show these images, the more, it's almost like the more they want to keep us at the bottom of this hierarchy of desirability. I suppose the argument that is most often made is that it's not a phobia, it's a legitimate health concern. What about health? Professor Bataam spoke about how some plus-sized people are healthy, some are unhealthy, just like some thin people are healthy, some unhealthy. Do we think that the media allows space for this nuance,

or do you think that the media grinds down on a fat equals unhealthy, thin equals healthy dichotomy? I mean, from my standpoint, in terms of ableism, I am unhealthy. I'm chronically ill and I will be for the rest of my life. And does that mean I'm not a person? Does that mean I'm not a human being? Does that mean I'm not deserving of respect?

Like, do you say that to other chronically ill people? Do you say that to people with cancer? Do you say that? Like, I'm sorry, I don't understand why me being unhealthy means that I'm not a person anymore. But it's this whole thing where this individualist thing where they're like, I'm pretty sure your weight is self-inflicted and it's therefore means you're a terrible person and you just choose to sit and eat. You don't have any discipline.

Like, all of these things come around. And it's all of these headlines that we're talking about all of this diet-pushing messaging that equates weight with eating and with exercise. rather than say like a myriad of social, economic and environmental factors. Do you think, Steph, that, oh, I'm concerned for your health has just become like a socially acceptable way of voicing fat bias? Oh, absolutely. I think that fat phobia was one of the last acceptable forms of hate crime.

I genuinely believe that. It's so normalized to just be horrible to fat people. People feel like they just have this, um, authority to talk over our bodies. I don't think that people should be using health as a way to give unsolicited advice. Fat people, we're not stupid. Like, we also have that initiative where if we notice that something is wrong and we genuinely think it's probably to do with our weight, then let us deal with that. We don't need outside opinions or strategies or shaming on our weight. Like, we're not stupid.

You know, it's really reminded me of our episode on how transgender people are reported in the media. because a lot of trans people who we spoke to foist how this kind of faux concern is just a way to show their bias against trans people, like suggesting that trans people should be really worried about the side effects of hormone therapy rather than their own lived experience of their gender. It's that kind of thing of saying, like, I know your body better than you do. Have either of you two ever been told you're promoting obesity? Of course. It's a classic experience online. Classic.

It's happened to me a lot more recently because due to endometriosis, I have gained, like, more weight. It's interesting because I have people who have actively been like, I have to unfollow you now because I just feel like it's unhealthy. Like, you used to be thinner. Keep it in the drafts. I used to model, and I remember I went into, I was 15 years old, and I went into a photo shoot.

And this photographer took my leg, squeezed it, and was just like, too fat, get her out. so I obviously was got out and I was smaller you know I was 15 year old and I was not I was not very well I had to eat eating disorder already and I wasn't you know my body is naturally bigger so like I just couldn't get the weight down as much as I kept trying not to eat and they kept calling me too fat that's disgusting it's that dehumanizing thing as well and like you know when you're a teenager as well like it's you don't have the kind of armour that you have when you get older where you're like you know how to deal with that stuff again it's this hierarchy where fat people have always been at the bottom we're not seen as desirable so when you do Do you see a fat person living unapologetically, wearing cool clothes or wearing crop tops, you know, showing off their bodies and genuinely loving themselves? People see it as an affront or an attack to them. It's almost like your happiness in your fat body that I've always deemed unhealthy is making me feel insecure in my body because I'm slimmer than you, but yet I don't have half the confidence

you have. So true. So therefore I'm going to put you down. Again, because promoting slimness is so ingrained. our society that it's almost weird for people who are naturally slim, who have grown up in this community or grown up in this society, knowing that their slim bodies are the norm, seeing another body being advertised or perpetuated. You know, promoting obesity, we do not have multi-billion pound campaigns telling slim people that they need to put on weight. We don't have

stores and shops who refuse to cater to anything below a size 18, for instance. Like there are so many systemic, oppressive things in place that hold fat people back. It's ironic really because in the pursuit of health, what has resulted is a preoccupation with our bodies, is younger and younger people getting plastic surgery because they're not happy with their bodies, is self-hatred, is eating disorders, is discrimination, and how is any of that healthy? Oh my God, I got told to get Botox last time I went for a wax. What?

Yeah. I'm 26. That sounds like a sex and see quote or something. I don't know. That like didn't seem real. Yeah, I know. Fully real. That's so funny.

Time now to have a look at some of the articles that are making headlines around this topic. Just before the slew of headlines about New Year Diet Secrets came headlines around Christmas and so-called overindulgence. On the 23rd of December, reported in the Times, the week, the Daily Mail, the Evening Standard and more was apparently some expert research. I'll read out the headlines. To burn off Christmas dinner, just go jogging for six hours. Six hour jog needed to burn off Christmas dinner. Burn off that Christmas dinner with a 12 hour, 50 mile walk.

Expert calculates how much exercise is needed to undo a festive blowout. now with these articles i particularly want to talk about where responsibility lies right because there is no mention no caveat no nothing that going on a six-hour jug may not be particularly good for you how can we hold the media responsible for articles like this i just think it's just absolutely rubbish like so what so what if somebody puts on a couple of pounds over christmas like somebody putting on weight does not mean that that person is going to keel over and die from a heart attack. It's one of these things where it's absolutely all down to do with aesthetics and how people look. Do you know what? I honestly feel like there needs to be like a huge overhaul when it comes

to journalism and PR and marketing and everybody behind the scenes. There needs to be more fat people in these spaces, writing articles that inspired joy and diversity of thought and including when it comes to clothes. Again, it's the media profiting and making money off of our insecurity. So yeah, we just need to wake up people. So when I bought up this article, quite a few people said to me like, oh, well, no one's really going to go on a six hour run though, are they? And I was wondering, Essie from like a disordered eating viewpoint, whether you think that's true. Oh, yeah, that's not true. Yeah, orthorexia is quite well known as kind of a part of, you know, over-exercising a lot. Over-exercising is a big part of eating disorders because it's all about

that kind of that obsession with calorie intake and then having to get rid of it. I would spend my entire days exercising at some points. Like it was ridiculous. Like there'd be some points in the day was just like, okay, I have to lose weight in a day. This day, I'm going to weigh myself at the beginning of the day and at the end of the day and we're going to see if I've lost any weight in the end of this. That was how like obsessive it was. And you don't really get told actually this might be bad for you because exercise in any capacity is considered good. Weight loss in any capacity is considered good and so is food restriction. So when you're doing it, people do tend to praise you and tend to be like, oh, I couldn't have that discipline because it's all about discipline

and restriction. There's some kind of ingrained sense that restriction is morally good and over-exerting yourself is morally good and resting or putting one any way or eating or indulging in any way is morally reprehensible somehow. A lot of people are eating just do over exercise. It's a big part of disordered eating. And the media, I do think, need to take some responsibility to understand that someone might read that

and go on a six-hour run. And it'll be a thing where someone will try and go on a six-hour run, obviously not be able to do it and then feel like a complete failure and then not eat maybe for the rest of the day. You know, these kinds of behaviours, which is something I would have done when I was really sick. Thank you for explaining that.

The second headline we'd like to look at is from the telegraph this week. how gardening helps to burn calories in winter. I'll read out some quotes from the article. Not only will your flower beds thank you, but your waistline will as well, with 300 calories burned, or depending how you look at it,

five pigs in blankets justified. It just really highlights the ever more creative way that the mainstream media markets weight loss, and they did see a follow-up piece in the Daily Mail where, okay, apparently Liz Hurley's exercise regime is built entirely around just doing the gardening and the housework

and of course the article linked through to the personal trainer who designed this regime so it's a prime piece of e-commerce as we spoke about earlier Steph I can see you

swallowing back exasperated laughter what's that about because I'm just like so I am a huge I'm very what is it green fingered I have about 80 plants

in my apartment alone I love plants why I don't understand why people are trying to just see suck the joy and the fun out of doing things that make us feel good about ourselves. It really does lend itself to this whole other conversation about the wellness industry because wellness for me is now kind of turning into the diet, the diet slash fitness industry. The whole point

of doing these therapeutic practices is to practice self-care and constantly worrying and being anxious about how much you've lost or how much you've burned doing this therapeutic thing is not self-care. It's the very antithesis of it. Oh, yeah. They are not going to take gardening and that kind of stuff away from me. Like, even housework. Housework is mundane, but I love it because I don't think about anything. People are having to now think about arm movements that they can do when, like, dusting the top of their drawers. So have you guys not been doing Kegel punches throughout this entire recording? And that are you doing? Absolutely not. And it's just like, I guarantee you in the next six months. There's going to be like a feather duster that is going to be like

according to weight so you can get like it's a dumbbell but it's also got a feather duster like i i guarantee it and it's sick then first they came for fats then they came for carbs then they came for every moment of carefree enjoyment we have in our day to day life honestly no more i'm tired of it thank you so much for joining us essie where can people follow you and do you have anything to plug yeah so um you can follow me on instagram or ticot it's Cal Essey, A-H-A-L-U-S-E. And, yeah, I'm on both of those. And, yeah, my book's coming out in March.

I'm super-duper excited. Also, obviously, go and check out my art shop, Queer in Color. I do a lot of fun, like, fat bodies in beautiful colours. And I have a bunch on my wall at the moment. So it just makes me feel a lot of joy. So if that's the kind of stuff you like. But, yeah, that's basically what I have to plug now. Amazing.

And Stephanie, thank you also for joining us. Where can people follow you? And do you have anything to plug? Thank you so much. Also, Essie, I'm going to look into your shop because I am looking for artwork that features fat body. So I'm glad you mentioned that. So you can find me on Instagram and also my website, which are both Stephanie Y-E-B-O-A-H. And yeah, my book Fatally Ever After is still out. And yeah, that's about it. An article every now and again, but it's mostly just me, just, you know, talking about body stuff or lusting after Jason Momoa or the mix of both, really. Sorry, I got distracted. It got a little distracted. Thanks for listening.

We'll be back on the 10th of February with our next episode on homelessness. And next Thursday, there'll be some special bonus content dropping. So make sure you've hit subscribe. Follow MediaStorm wherever you get your podcast so that you can get access to new episodes as soon as they drop. If you like what you hear, share this episode. with someone and leave us a five-star rating and a review. It really helps more people discover the podcast and our aim is to have as many people as possible hear these voices. You can also follow us on social media at Matilda Mal at Helena Wadia and follow the show via at MediaStorm pod.

You can also get in touch and let us know what you'd like us to cover or who you'd like us to speak to. Media Storm, a new podcast from the House of the Guilty Feminist is part of the ACOS creator network. It is produced by Tom Solinsky and Deborah Francis White. The music Music is by Samfire.