Media Storm - S3E6 Self-ID: Scotland, Westminster, and the fight for gender recognition - with Charlie Craggs

Episode Date: July 13, 2023

Hey listeners! We've launched a Patreon. If you want to support us for a small monthly fee, head to patreon.com/MediaStormPodcast Scotland recently joined approximately 30 countries in implementing a progressive gender self-identification law. The Gender Recognition Reform Bill, aiming to streamline the process of transgender people obtaining a Gender Recognition Certificate, passed by 86 votes to 39. But the celebrations were short-lived.  The British government - or, one member of that government, the Scottish Secretary of State Alister Jack, - blocked the Bill in an unprecedented move and constitutional first. Fears were cited that legislation could have an adverse impact on the Equality Act 2010, and therefore across the UK in areas like single sex spaces. Transgender people do not need a Gender Recognition Certificate to access any single-sex spaces. But across the media, Scotland’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill was linked with transgender access to single-sex spaces. So what happened? What changes did the Bill actually propose? This week, Media Storm speaks to transgender people who have applied for Gender Recognition Certificates, about what the changes mean in real life, and asks what we can learn from other countries like Iceland and Ireland that already have progressive Self-ID laws in place. We're joined in the studio by author, actress, and activist Charlie Craggs to discuss media representation of the transgender community and gender self-ID.  Speakers: Arthur Webber @BernieTranders  Asher Gibson @gibson_asher @A_B_Gbsn Ugla Stefanía Kristjönudóttir Jónsdóttir (Owl) @uglastefania Aoife Martin @aoifemrtn Charlie Craggs @charlie_craggs With thanks to Heard heard.org.uk The voice of 'Sarah' is Theo Stinson  Sources: Scotland Ministerial Statement https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/ministerial-statement-challenge-to-the-uk-governments-section-35-order-on-the-gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill-april-19-2023  Statement of reasons related to the use of section 35 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/statement-of-reasons-related-to-the-use-of-section-35-of-the-scotland-act-1998 Gender Recognition Reform Bill factsheet https://www.gov.scot/publications/gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill-more-information/ Scotland's trans self-ID bill no risk for women https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-scotland-lgbt-idUSL8N33949W Mermaids’ research into newspaper coverage on trans issues https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/exclusive-mermaids-research-into-newspaper-coverage-on-trans-issues/ Your hosts are @helenawadia and @mathildamall. Music by Samfire @soundofsamfire. Media Storm was launched by the house of The Guilty Feminist and is part of the Acast Creator Network. Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/media-storm. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Matilda, what was our fourth ever episode of media storm on? It was on How the Media Reports on Trans Rights. Right. And what is this episode on? How the media reports on trans rights? Well, yeah. And why are we doing the same topic? A year and a half later. Well, it's because of a few reasons, but mostly because this topic of transgender rights seems to always be in the news. And we'll talk about disproportionate coverage a little later on, but with that you're

so much misinformation out there, it's Media Storm's job to tackle it. This is kind of sad, though. Does it mean that nothing has changed in the UK in terms of progress for trans rights? Well, sort of and sort of not. Late last year, Scotland passed the Gender Recognition Reform Bill, and that's going to be the main focus of this week's investigation. The bill improves the system by which transgender people can apply for legal recognition through a gender recognition certificate. Okay, and the gender recognition certificate is... A gender recognition certificate means trans people can change their sex marker on their birth

certificate, future death certificate so they're not misgendered after they die, and marriage or civil partnership certificate. You don't need one to change the sex on your passport or other forms of ID. Okay, and so Scotland wants to simplify the process by which trans people apply for a gender recognition certificate. Yep. And was their support for it? Oh yeah. The bill passed by 86 votes to 39,

so there was a clear majority. Okay, and that sounds like progress. Yeah, unfortunately not. Because early this year, the British government blocked the bill. And they did that by using something called Section 35 of the Scotland Act 1998. And if that sounds old and technical,

well, it's because it is. That clause was. put in 25 years ago, meant to be used as a matter of last resort. If the British government truly believes any proposed legislation passed by the Scottish Parliament would have an adverse effect on the operation of the law in the UK. So in a constitutional first, Westminster used a piece of legislation never used before to block transgender people in Scotland from more easily accessing a gender recognition. Ignition Certificate.

Yeah. Well, they must have had a really, really good reason to, right? Having never used that veto power before? Um, well, Westminster said the bill is constitutionally incompatible with the UK Equality Act of 2010. Now, trans people like many other people, are protected from discrimination under the Equality Act, meaning among many other things, they can access single-sex spaces without discrimination. But Scottish MSPs and people who worked on the gender recognition reform bill

say the bill doesn't change the Equality Act or the rules on access to single-sex spaces and services at all. So what's really going on? Well, that's what I'm off to find out. I've been speaking to transgender people about the process of getting a gender recognition certificate. What Scotland's streamlining of the process really means? Why Westminster had such a big reaction to it

and to find out what we can learn from other countries that already have progressive self-ID laws in place. And I'll see you back in the studio with our very special guest, actress, activist and author, Charlie Craggs, to discuss everything around this media storm. Why can't I identify as a black lesbian? Schools will be forced to tell parents if students are questioning their gender. There are males who identify as women who may well pose a threat to women. and ask what you, for yourself, what you wear, live your best life. Don't make any difference to me, other than, you know, if you're a man

and you're in the changing rooms or the toilets. Welcome to Media Storm, the news podcast that starts with the people who are normally asked last. I'm Helena Wadia and I'm Matilda Mallinson. This week's investigation. Self-I-D. Scotland, Westminster and the fight for gender recognition. The result of the vote on motion 7312 is yes, 86. No 39. The motion is therefore agreed and the Gender Recognition Reform Scotland Bill is passed.

As you've just heard, Scotland passed the Gender Recognition Reform Bill, aiming to streamline the process of transgender people obtaining a gender recognition certificate, or GRC. The British government, or one member of that government, the Scottish Secretary of State, Alistair Jack, blocked the bill, with sources claiming that the legislation could have an adverse impact on the Equality Act and therefore across the UK in areas like equal pay, single-sex spaces and prison transfers. It's important to note here that a transgender person does not need a gender recognition certificate to access any single-sex spaces. But across the media, Scotland's gender recognition reform bill

was linked with transgender access to single-sex spaces. So let's break it down. What changes did the bill actually propose? And why is it important that the process to get a GRC is streamlined? Hi, I'm Arthur and I do digital communications for a charity. I've been chatting to Arthur Weber about the process of getting his GRC. If you follow Arthur online, you might have seen his hilarious jokes over the years about the time it took him to get his official documentation.

I've known I was trans pretty much my whole life. When I was very young, being a trans man wasn't something that was particularly well known. So I didn't have the language back then, so I would just tell people that I should have been born a boy. People would just assume that I'd grow out of it someday. So it wasn't until I was 20, which was five years ago, the people finally understood that, okay,

this wasn't something that was going to go away. And then I was able to socially and begin my medical transition. because I'd sort of been in the closet and known about the gender recognition process. It was about 13. I knew what I needed to be able to actually complete it. Unfortunately, that's not the case for a lot of trans people. I see lots of trans people in Facebook groups and stuff that say, I need to get married in six months.

How do I get a gender recognition certificate? And it's like, oh, you probably can't in that time. So I wanted to apply for it pretty much as soon as I came out. So I actually got my gender recognition certificate. last year. So it took four years to me to get it sorted, which is a very, very long time. The first change that Scotland's bill proposed was that applicants would not need to submit a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria to support their application. They would have to make a statutory declaration that they have lived in their acquired gender for at least

three months before applying, rather than the current period of two years. What was it like supplying those medical reports? I have a real problem with this, particularly on the basis of class, because obviously with NHS gender clinic waiting this being so long, if you're wanting to apply for a gender recognition certificate early in your transition, the only way you're going to be able to do it if you can afford to go privately. And that's really pricing out so many trans people. If you're a trans person who's in poverty, which is a lot of trans people, you're going to be waiting years and years and years to be able to get this documentation. So it's not fair in the slightest.

So at least from that point of view, I feel like people should be able to understand that it's not fair to have a medical diagnosis requirement. The second change proposed by Scotland's bill was to do with age. Currently in the UK, you have to be 18 to apply for a GRC. Scotland were to change this to 16. I know trans kids that have been out and socially transitioned since they were like 10 years old. And so being able to get that sorted two years earlier

it would be absolutely wonderful. Get all of it out of the way. It was something that I was talking about with my therapist. It was really nice to sort of have all the paperwork done finally and to be done with it and not have to worry about any sort of legal stuff coming along with being trans anymore. Like it's all push aside.

You'd have to think about it anymore. And being able to do that two years earlier for people will be something that's nice, frustrating, but it's at least done earlier and you can get on with your rest of your life a little bit earlier. Why should that process be, made easier? What is the reason that that process to get a certificate should be made easier? Just so trans people can live their lives just like everybody else. I mean, people who aren't

trans don't have to prove their gender in order to be able to get married. They don't have to prove their gender in order to be able to be buried as the correct gender when they die. It's just something that most people take for granted. And so it would be nice for trans people not to have to jump through hoops and go above and beyond to prove we are who we say we are. when for other people it's just accepted. It's depressing because there is a fundamental misrepresentation of what a gender recognition certificate is because after there was lots of backlash about it,

I tweeted with a picture of mine saying, this is what it is, what it does is it enables me to get married and die as the gender that I am. And I had loads of people responding going, no, that's not what it does because they seem to think that it grants you access to toilets and all sorts of other things. The complete lack of accurate information out there

is really frustrating. This over-exaggeration of what a GRC allows trans people to do seems to be a running theme. My name's Asher. I'm based at the moment in Banbury, North Oxfordshire, but I switch between here and London quite frequently. I spoke to Asher, a 22-year-old trainee journalist. There's quite a few things you can do without a gender recognition certificate. So I was wondering why you wanted to have one, why you wanted to apply for one? To be honest, this is something I wanted to bring up because generally speaking, my gender recognition certificate

has done very little practically for me. My reason for getting it was kind of like my reason for voting. It's less to do with this will impact my life. It's more this is my civil right to have it. And it's like, to be. counted is to count. I use my passport more often and the only things I needed to provide to change the gender marker on my passport was a note from my GP who is not a gender specialist and one document proving that I'd changed my name and gender somewhere else. That was it. Two documents and I have this

thing that I can use to access hostels, which are single sex spaces, which I can use to apply for jobs. used to travel international borders. We basically have a self-ID system already for passports, which we use far more often than a birth certificate. And the UK hasn't exploded. Lowering the age requirement and getting rid of a need for a medical diagnosis are two of the biggest changes Scotland wanted to implement with their bill. There was also another smaller but important change. Applications would be made to the Registrar General for Scotland instead of a gender recognition panel. I spoke to a trans woman who we're calling Sarah,

who applied for a GRC in the UK back in 2005, only a year after they were first introduced. I asked her why she thinks the process needs to be updated almost 20 years later. Sarah wanted to remain anonymous, so this part is voiced by an actor. You're being judged against some standard that kind of naturally arises from societal gender norms in some way.

This has required me to, I guess, play the part in a way. To get the judgment of the panel, whatever that means. It's all a secret so you never know. I can see there's some need for some kind of criteria. What I don't like is the current system. The criteria is being judged by an anonymous panel of whoever it is. You don't know who. With, you know, this secret process and no resource to appeal.

There's no justice in her. that goes about. If the process were more transparent, I think it would be a lot easier for people to really engage with what's going on. It seems Scotland's changes to accessing a GRC are being welcomed by trans people. It's important to note that updating the process of gender self-ID has long been on the cards in Scottish government and that Scotland's gender recognition reform bill went through months of detailed parliamentary scrutiny, debate and amendment. One successful amendment which reads, for the avoidance of doubt, nothing in this act modifies the Equality Act 2010.

A report issued by the Scottish Human Rights Commission earlier this year said it could not identify any objectively evidenced real and concrete harm that is likely to result from the reforms. So the question really is, will changing the process of getting a GRC impact on the Equality Act an impact on access to single-sex spaces? Or was this a political decision because the UK government disagrees

with the transgender rights Scotland wished to update? One way that we can try and find out is looking to other countries. Around 30 countries, including New Zealand, Iceland, Malta, Ireland, Argentina, Denmark and others have implemented gender self-identification where no judge or medical expert are involved. My name is Eugla, Stefania Christenudrion Sotir, or Aal, and I am a feminist campaigner and a writer from Iceland originally, but I've been living in the UK for the past seven years.

Iceland passed their Gender Autonomy Act in 2019. Instead of trans people needing to seek a diagnosis from a healthcare professional in order to change their legal gender marker and names, they were simply able to do that to the National Registry by filling in a form and saying that they wanted to do it. change their name and gender. And there wasn't any sort of permissions or requirements needed for it. So it was a really, really big step for trans people, because prior to that, trans people had to fulfill all sorts of requirement, had to live in a specific gender for a specific amount of time, had to get a diagnosis from a healthcare professional. It allowed children at the age of 15 to do the same. So when you turn 15, you would be able to change your name in gender marker without

your parental consent. It also allows non-binary people to be recognized by law. So, as opposed to having MRF on a passport, you can get an X, for example. Did you help create the law in Iceland? Yeah, so basically how it started was that me and a fellow activist called Kitty Anderson, who is an intersex activist, we sort of got an email from among the political parties. And from that, we sort of gathered a group of activists that then formed into a sort of a legislative group, people from all sorts of different expertise and personal experiences. It was activist. It was

psychologists. It was lawyers. It was people with master's in gender studies. And through that, we basically crafted the legislation. So it was really, you know, from the get-go created by the grassroots and created by members of the community. And I think that's what made it so great and so successful that people saw how real and authentic it was because it was being created by the people it was four. What was the reaction to the law when it first came in in 2019 in Iceland? The reaction both from the parliament and from organizations across Iceland were really, really positive. And we were really, really happy to have support from all the major human rights organizations, from all the feminist organizations in Iceland. Even, you know,

when we think about all of these sort of institutions constantly get discussed in the UK, like the prison service or sports unions or all of these sort of things were all really positive in the end about it and really thought this was going to be really beneficial for the community, which was really, really refreshing because obviously I'm also living in the UK where things are a bit more difficult on all of these fronts. So just being able to go through that process and seeing and having that support kind of showed me that this is the way it should be and it doesn't have to be negative or toxic or polarizing. It can't actually just be about people getting more rights and things becoming more equal for

these groups of people. And it doesn't need to be about all that other noise that we see in the media. Right. That was actually going to be, you know, my next question because I did see while researching this that the same questions that are often raised in the UK, questions about single sex spaces, questions about women's shelters, prisons, sports, swimming, etc. All those questions were raised when the Iceland legislation was going through. Yeah, I mean, I think people were more willing to listen and more willing to take it in. And I think that is often. and the problem in the UK that even when people are presented with evidence, people are presented with lived experiences, people are presented with arguments and good solid reasoning,

they aren't willing to take it in, they aren't willing to listen to it. It's skewed against trans people and fundamentally arguing with someone that doesn't believe you are who you are. You can't have a conversation of the fundamental respect for who people are isn't there. And I think that's the difference, I think, because when we had meetings with the prisons service and with the sports union, of course there were questions that were raised and things they asked and things they needed answers to. But we were just able to have those conversations because people were having a conversation from a respectful point of view and they weren't having it from the point of view that, you know, you're infringing upon my rights and this

is destroying something. They were saying, okay, how can we create something where we can all benefit from it? Yeah. Have any of these concerns or fears that were raised, as you say, both in Iceland are so often raised in the UK, have any of these concerns or fears been realised? No, I mean, none of these things about, you know, what they say, that now men are going to pretend to be women and they're going to go to the swimming pool and they're going to do all these horrible things. Like, none of these things have happened at all. Of course, we already have laws for when someone does something bad or when someone is misusing these laws. But in practice, and the reality is we're not seeing that happen. Yeah, issues might arise,

but we can always solve them because we're all human beings who want to be supported and want to feel included. So if that's the standpoint we're coming from, we can always find a solution where everybody feels safe. Four years before Iceland, in 2015, the Republic of Ireland passed its Gender Recognition Act. It permits an Irish citizen to amend their gender on government documents through self-determination. The law does not require any medical intervention nor an assessment. by the state. Anyone over 18 can apply to change their gender. You can also apply if you're age 16 or 17, but with parental permission. Eve for Martin applied for her GRC in Ireland in 2018. We have the figures up to 2002. So there have been 1,203 certs issued in Ireland. You know,

612 of those were for male to female and 591 were female to male. So pretty much 50-50. It hasn't been issue at all. Yes, there's been some controversy around some trans women being sent to women's prisons. And, you know, at the end of the data decision made by the prison service, your gender recognition search does not bestow upon you a right to be sent to, you know, one particular prison or another. It's a decision made on a case-by-case basis by the prison service. And it's up to them to decide where a prisoner should go, regardless of whether they have a gender recognition insert or not. Those are that's sort of the only sort of controversies that have been around it, but other than that, no, there hasn't been any issues. It, you know, it in no way should affect

anybody else. You know, and all it does is make life a little bit easier for a very, very small percentage of the population. What we're seeing in the UK is worrying. We're seeing a trans panic happening, and it's happening in real life. You know, they're not going to stop with trans people. You know, once they're doing with trans people, they're going to move on to other people. So what happens now that Westminster has blocked Scotland's bill? Here's Scotland's social justice secretary, Shirley Anne Somerville, speaking in Scottish Parliament. The Secretary of State used the Section 35 power,

an absolute veto to strike down any devolved legislation, passed by a majority of this Parliament he dislikes without discussion based on political, not policy, judgment. Now, this Scottish Government remains committed to the bill, as amended and as agreed, by a majority of Parliament. in this Parliament, which would make it easier for trans people to have their lives and access their existing rights. Over 350 million people around the world already live in countries and regions with the type of systems proposed in the bill.

Irrespective of your view on the bill, and I recognise that some people remain firmly opposed to it, challenging the UK Government's use of Section 35 is the only option for a government that wants to uphold and defend the democratic will and devolved powers of this Parliament. To not challenge the order would mean accepting that the Secretary of State can ultimately strike down any devolved legislation, even after a full and detailed scrutiny by Parliament and after MSPs have amended, debated and voted on a bill. If after all that one person can simply decide that a bill should not proceed without that decision being questioned, it sets a precedent that calls into question devolution itself.

As the Scottish government vowed to fight the veto of this bill, we have to ask what role is media playing in the representation of self-ID? That takes us back to the studio. Thanks for sticking around. Welcome back to the studio and to Media Storm, the news podcast that starts with the people who are not. normally asked last. Today we are discussing the transgender community and gender self-identification and how it's portrayed in the mainstream media. And with us is a very special guest. She's the force behind the nail transphobia campaign, author of the book to My Transistors and presenter of BBC 3 documentary Transitioning Teens. She's also a leading role in the podcast, Doctor Who redacted, making her the second transgender companion in the show's history. We're so thrilled

to be joined by actress, activist and author Charlie Craig. Thank you guys. I just, I've never been introduced as an actress before, so it's quite nice, but also then the second kind of kills it. It's like, the second. I'm like, who was the first, she was not, she was second. How are you doing? You're okay, yeah.

Helena, are you okay? You've been talking about calling into a dustbin about five minutes ago. I was talking about getting into a bin a few minutes ago, but I'm really, I'm completely fine. I'm absolutely, everything is very, Because as we record this, we have about eight hours until this episode needs to be ready and uploaded. No.

Yes. Oh my God. I'm going to have to give you really good answers that don't need editing then. So I'm going to think about every word I say. Okay. Well, let's get cracking. So in the first half of this episode, we hear from people with lived experience of getting a gender recognition certificates and about what that actually means.

And it's all based on the reaction to Scotland's gender recognition reform bill. Now, the bill was passed in the Scottish government with a clear majority. I wonder, first of all, you could just tell us when it was passed. Did you have any feelings about it? What did you think about it? I wasn't surprised that it was passed because Scotland had quite a good track record on trans issues. And it's also just like a natural progression. I mean, it's actually a bit surprising that it hadn't passed already.

This is no shade to Scotland. Like, they're doing miles better than us. But as in like so many other countries in Europe who are actually like cons or even not even just Europe worldwide, who aren't considered as progressive, Scotland was like 20th or something. That's not that. Like, I mean, it's not that radical. Like, but it's obviously great.

It's great. If, as you've pointed out, this legal reform that Scotland introduced wasn't necessarily even that revolutionary on a world stage, why was this the hill on which the UK government chose to employ this

quite radical constitutional device for the first time, do you think that negative media coverage directly influenced the government's decision to do that. Let's go deeper than that. The governments dictate and are the reason for that negative media representation. I mean literally this might split up the UK. They're literally risking to break up the UK over 1% of the population. If you think that the government is

influencing the negative press coverage in the first place, what does the government have to gain from blowing up the trans rights debate? They are so desperate. The Tories are so desperate to stay in power. And we are currently the most valuable porn they have right now in that we are the immigrants of the early 2000s, the gays of the 80s. We are the black people of the 60s. We're the porn they have held over the heads of all these white working class. I say this as a white working class person. I'm from a council state down the road in Labbrook Grove. But like we are the porn that they have over the UK. And it's not just trans people. Like we are one of the many pawns. But currently I feel like we're the kind of. of the hot topic because with a smallest community, with the community with the least history of resistance as well. And the least support, I guess, as well, just to be frank. But there are other pawns as well where like if they're not going to use the pawns, they're not going to win the election. I've said porn so many times. Every time I say I'm like, I feel like I'm saying porn porn, porn. But yeah, it's like, I'm not going to say porn again.

But yeah, that's why, that's how it works. Or that's at least how I see that it works. Yeah, because what works for the government or what may work for the government as a scapegoating device works for headlines hugely as a commercial device because if there's a lot of emotion stirred up around this debate, people are going to click on that headline, people are going to buy that paper. So it's kind of a vicious cycle of political incentive and press incentive feeding into one another. Well, let's deep dive a bit more into media coverage of self-identification and the trans community. Most research has shown that this disproportionate coverage started around 2018. And in that time, there have been certain phrases that have sprung up and they've almost become like canon. And people don't stop and question these phrases anymore. But because this is media storm, we're going to stop and question these phrases right now.

One that we hear quite a lot from people who are typically anti-transgender or who think in some way that trans rights conflict with cis women's rights is gender ideology. Now, this phrase is just keeps springing up. An ideology is a set of beliefs. And so gender ideology is kind of implying that you can believe in gender or not, like you can believe in like fairies or not. I mean, what does that word say to you? To me, ideology has connotations of something sinister as well.

There's a feeling of like radicalisation. I guess it's rooted in the context as well. because like the articles that has been used in where it's kind of come to prevalence haven't been in nice articles. It's a mess. Actually, another term that I've seen come up a lot in very similar, very negative articles is the transgender lobby. And there was a media review by Mermaid, the charity. And they assessed a random selection of articles from 10 years ago.

That term wasn't mentioned at all. And then from recent years, that term was mentioned over 150 times from a sample of 100 articles. 90% of these articles took a very negative tone. What does that term, the transgender lobby, say to you? It's got a tone of bullying around it. It's got a tone of like a mob mentality lobby. Like we're literally just people trying not to be killed. Like we're people trying to literally just do a wee in the bathroom, which we had been doing very happily, causing no concern to anyone for a very long time up until 2018. And you think they'll call us the lobby and imply that we're doing the bullying of making everyone conform to our beliefs and our

ideology. But who's the real bullies? When you're literally attacking our rights, I think Sean in her book, the transgender issue put it really well in that it's wild to see how in the flip of a switch we've gone from being the joke that literally like, ha ha, trans person a tranny to be like, oh, they're so scary. It's like, you're the ones who're scaring us. You're the ones who're the one's spit on our faces. You're the ones literally like making a joke of us in every fucking sitcom ever. We're the ones being beaten up on Jerry Springer. We are

literally a joke to you. It makes my blood bowl and my piss spoil that we have been painted as the bullies when we are the ones being bullied. All of what we're talking about is all part of the parcel where we have to speak about the ways in which the media

affects the reality, the day-to-day lives of trans people. And a huge issue not getting the time of day that it deserves because the media is so obsessed with bathrooms is transgender hate crimes and they are on the rise home office statistics show in 2020 to 21 there were over 2,600 hate crimes against trans people that were recorded by the police but that part of that sentence is very important because there are also swathes and swathes of hate crimes that are not reported to the police so many I know, Charlie, you have first-hand experience of this,

and I wonder if you could just tell us a little bit about what happened if you're comfortable to. Of course. I have first-hand experience of this before the first-hearted experience that you're thinking of even because me, like most trans people, I hadn't ever reported a hate crime. We felt, what's the point? They're not going to get in trouble.

The microaggressions I'll even face with the police officers. They're just like blokey. A lot of them are just blokey guys who are going to misgender me at the station. I'm like already super hurt, scared. So I reported it and in the end I was right. So these two boys, the video is still up if you want to watch it on my Instagram, Charlie underscore Craggs. They like laughed at me because I was trans, like, oh, it's a Shemow, da, da, da, da.

Really, really like nasty saying horrible things, tranny Shima, have you got a dick? Blah, blah, blah, that's a man. And then they threw a can at me and it was had water in it, but also it was a can, it hurt. I then pick up the can because I'm from Leverbrook. And I'm sick of being a victim at this point in my life. I'm 10 years into transition. This has been my life for the last. last 10 years of literally feeling like terrified to use public transport because I just always

seem to get shit on it. Then he spits on my face. Up until this point no one had reacted. When he spout my face then everyone stood up and was like what the fuck this has gone too far. Especially in like Corona time, bear in mind I was wearing a mask. So I go straight up to the train man with spit on my face still. He took a spit swab. I took the can and everything. Yeah, it went to court. I got and literally more trouble than he did. I don't know how old they were, but they told me they were under the age to be convicted is.

And the judge, the attitude she gave me, like, there was not a single shred of like, I'm sorry this happened to you, but, da, da, da, da, da, it was just Charlie Craggs. We have been a made aware that you filmed two underage, da, da, da, da, da, and then you put it on your Instagram, and then you da-da-da, and I'm literally like, look at her, like, is this happening?

The court experience was 10 million times worse than the experience of the hate crime itself, which was hard enough. I wanted to kill myself so bad. Like I was, it was so hard. But this comes back directly to how mainstream media reporting influences real life experiences. Because one thing that the media doesn't report on for all of its coverage of, you know, can trans women enter bathrooms are hate crimes like Helen said. And if they were reporting on it, well, this would help juries to.

understand the prominence and the severity of these crimes and to convict, it would pressurise the Crown Prosecution Service to deliver justice for these crimes. I mean, the first episode that Media Storm did on transgender-related issues was Helen's investigation into waiting times for healthcare for the community. What's interesting is, literally today, as we record this episode, there is a hearing in the Court of Appeal to challenge the extreme waiting times faced by transgender people seeking help from NHS England. And we're not seeing that reported in the press. It is as telling what the press doesn't report on as what they do report on.

Just like trans pride on the weekend, literally I think like 25,000 people turned out in support of trans people. Obviously, most of that is allies, if anything. No coverage. Same last year. Like, no. I think there was, I think this year maybe one. The independent was the only outlet we could find that actually spoke to trans people with lived experience. They don't want to show like people supporting trans people.

They just want to give people a voice when then anti-trans. Polling actually shows that the British public isn't in keeping with the story the press is telling, people are not overwhelmingly against transgender rights. And that begs the question, I suppose, do cis allies need to be more assertive in making sure that their perspective, their support is over, is heard? Is there more that cis allies need to do to get involved in standing up for trans rights? Do you know what? I'm maybe I'm going to get a toll off by my trans friends, but I don't even want to put that on you guys.

is not on you. This is the media. This is, this is the government. This is strategy. This is literally like people having meetings to strategize how they can take us down and how they can make what's happening happen. I'm not going to tell cis people, oh, you need to be doing more. I think it's a case that they need to be doing less. Do you agree with that? Do you think that there's things that Alex could do to sway the media narrative? I don't know, because what you said that we we don't see cis people you know writing articles saying hey actually I stand with trans people

that's true we definitely don't see enough of those and maybe we should be having a hell of a lot more of that maybe as an experiment we should each pitch the same editors and I'll be like I'm a cis woman and I'm scared of going into the loo and you should pitch the same from an allyship perspective

and we just document which one's going to take up you will get your answer I can promise you that I want to pick up on something you said before because we know we want to talk about how we can try and shift this coverage. Something we've seen and something we've heard is that the media only ever covers like trans trauma or trans pain and you never see any trans joy because it's only ever negative coverage.

And then that obviously can really affect like families if somebody in their family comes out as trans. They only have a negative view of it. Should the media be doing more to show trans joy? Absolutely. If all we ever see is just like trans people. being sad like that's why I didn't come out for a long time I came out quite young I came out like 20 that was quite old really like for me because I knew when I well I really knew I didn't

have a word for it but I was telling my mum I was a girl when I was four but that's why I never came out because I just knew my life was going to be so hard the only time I did actually see trans people would be on jerry springer where we were literally being like beating up on stage while the audience cheer I think what we really need is just like more like super like super normal representation, like super bland representation. We need like a, you know, like a Rylan. Like, I feel like Rylan does so much for gay rights without actually doing anything for, not saying he's doing nothing for gay rights. I don't know what kind of work he does. But like, in that, like, he doesn't explicitly speak about gay rights. But him being on this morning every

morning with the whole of the UK watching does so much for that consciousness and that understanding of like gay people and just accepting gay people and seeing gay people as normal's a bit of a day word but like just like human I guess and just like I'm going to say normal I'm going to say normal yeah because actually I was watching never have I ever recently on Netflix and there are two characters one who is non-binary and one who is a trans woman and their storylines aren't about being non-binary or being a trans woman you know their storylines are one of them is getting into a relationship and fancy someone and the other storyline is one of them is a careers advisor at a school,

but they just happen to be trans-slash non-binary. These people just have normal lives and have jobs and work in a school or fall in love. Which is literally what we are. And I think that would help the understanding of us just like, yeah, we're living in your world, we're using your toilets, we're not these crazy. I get called a groom online literally every day.

And that's not an exaggeration, like, not just once a day, even, like multiple times a day. And I think just like seeing us in that setting of just like being normal people who just occupy the same spaces where it's workspace, The spaces, school spaces, wheylet spaces, that's going to do so much good. Time now to take a look at some stories making recent headlines. This unbelievable story gripped headlines over the last couple weeks.

The Telegraph headline. People who questioned classmate identifying as a cat called Despicable by teacher. LBC put it in these terms. Teacher brand schoolgirl, despicable, after she refuses to. to accept classmates' claim that she identifies as a cat. Process that. Think about, you know, how that makes you feel, okay? And then process this.

There was not a single pupil at this school who identified or claimed to identify as a cat. How the hell did this happen? Well, here's a summary. A three and a half minute recording of a teacher and a pupil arguing about gender identity was shared on TikTok. In it, the student is quoted as asking, if they, i.e. another student, want to identify as a cat, although this word is indistinct and it could be saying like cow or carrot or something, then they are genuinely unwell, crazy. The teacher argues that this linking of gender identity to an animal is rude and offensive because it disregards the range of gender identities that people can have. In the clip, this teacher then calls this attack on gender identity, despicable. The TikTok audio is picked up by Fox News and the ultra-conservative group

Turning Point UK and then of course, GB News. After that, it hit mainstream news outlets, including as we've read out, the Telegraph and LBC, but also the Daily Mail, the BBC, ITV. This led to, and I actually cannot believe this happened, the Education Secretary ordering an investigation into the school. The, no, wait, I'm not done, I'm not done. The Equality's Minister demanding a Snap-Offsted inspection and Rishi Sunak, the literal Prime Minister, condemning schools that are allowing children to identify as cats, horses and dinosaurs.

The school have now confirmed in a statement that this clip... Sorry, we'll just take a laughter break. Oh my God. The school have confirmed in a statement, no one at the school identifies as a bloody cat or a carrot or a cow. Now, if we were kind, we could put it down to basic fact-checking and say, oh, you know, these reports didn't even have enough time to actually watch the video they were writing about. Well, it's actually pretty evident in the article that they understand the reality

and they still choose to write headlines that claim a student identified as a cat. So it's not an issue of fact-checking. this is a deliberate manipulation of the facts. This is a deliberate fabrication of a story out of thin air. Is this even news? I wish it was news because I really feel like my privacy's been invaded as that student who said I was a cat. And I don't like you assuming that I don't.

I don't have a cat. But to be honest, I'm never shocked by anything these days. I remember, like, remember I said about the people in my estate, there was one girl who I was really disappointed by because I remember seeing, like, her sharing a piece which is very much like similar to this type of piece where it was trans people have made Hasbro stopped calling Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, and now Mr. Potato Head is just called potato head or something that. I remember that. And she shared it. She was like, now I accept

LGBT people, but this is going too far. And it's like no trans person ever has ever said anything to do with that. We have bigger fish to fry than Mr. Potato Head. Let me tell you that No one identifies as a cat. The only person I've ever heard say that is Pierce Morgway. He was like, I identify as a black woman penguin or something. Yeah, two-spirit penguin. Yeah, that happened with this as well because on GB News, albeit GB News, you know, is not a reputable source.

But on GB News, a presenter the next day after this story came out, dressed up as a cat, and then did a whole opening segment saying, I identify as a cat, don't bully me. But the story never happened. That's the thing. I mean, how weak is the argument against transgender rights if you need to invent ridiculous situations to delegitimize? You know, we actually really do have to address how a TikTok

led to the Prime Minister making a statement. Like, that's serious. That is serious. Like, has it gone so far that two year eight pupils talking about gender identity on a social media app has got into the heart of government? Like, what does that say about us? Yeah, when he doesn't even have time to make sure people can pay their energy bills.

And it's all, like, terminology, like, identifying. It's kind of going back to your thing about language where, like, it's like dog whistle terms, like, lobbying, like gender ideology, identifying. Have you ever heard a straight person identify a straight? I don't identify as a woman. I'm a woman. I'm a trans woman. I don't know what? Tell me I can't say I'm a woman.

I don't care. I'm a trans woman. I really don't care. I don't fucking identify as anything. I'm myself. I'm, you know, I'm sick of, and I hope any trans people listen to this as well, we stop playing into this whole identifying thing.

We're not identifying as anything. It plays into this whole thing of us being like super overly politically correct. I identify. It's like no one speaks like that. Can we stop this whole identify thing? I don't identify. I am. And it also,

the thing what you said about the GB News guy coming out in the cat thing, it just like, and even the Piers Morgan doing his little bit where he said he's, the two-spirit penguin or whatever, there's your bully. Like, that's a bully. You're making fun of, you know, indigenous cultures. You're making fun of trans people. You're making fun of penguins. You think you're big, peers. I don't think you should be making bird references. You look like the pigeon lady. Next on Media Storm. Penguins. You identify as a pigeon. Right. Charlie Cracks, thank you so much for joining us. Where can people follow you?

You think you slipped it in earlier anyway. Oh, did I? I don't remember that. Anything to plug? want to plug how much I love and appreciate you. I'm not going to plug myself for once. I'm going to just say, thank you so much for you don't understand the good you're doing, especially like your listenership and the, especially the women listening who like people like I said earlier might not know trans people in real life, might be getting dragged into these conversations, might be getting dragged down these algorithms. You're doing so much more than you realize and I'm so, so eternally grateful.

Like really, really from the heart grateful. Thank you. I mean that. But you can find me at Charlie underscore trans on everything, including Bambo Tender Christian Mingo. Date Charlie. Please. Not Christian Mingo.

Thank you for listening. Our next investigation into crisis zones and the ways in which humanitarian crises disproportionately impact women will be out in two weeks. But you can tune in next Thursday as usual for more from this conversation with Charlie in a bonus special about the real threats.

to women. Follow MediaStorm wherever you get your podcast so that you can get access to new episodes as soon as they drop. If you like what you hear, share this episode with someone and leave us a five-star rating and a review. It really helps more people discover the podcast and our aim is to have as many people as possible hear these voices. You can also follow us on social media at Matilda Mal at Helen Awadier and follow the show via at MediaStorm pod. Get in touch and let us know what you'd like us to cover or who you'd like us to speak to. MediaStorm is an award-winning podcast by Helena Wadia and Matilda Malinson. It came from the house of the guilty feminist

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