Media Storm - S3E8 Housing crisis: A lifetime in ‘temporary’ accommodation - with Kwajo Tweneboa

Episode Date: August 24, 2023

Hey listeners! We've launched a Patreon. If you want to support us for a small monthly fee, head to patreon.com/MediaStormPodcast Media Storm will be LIVE at London Podcast Festival, Saturday 16th September at 7pm. BOOK your tickets now: https://www.kingsplace.co.uk/whats-on/words/media-storm-2/ Content warning: This episode features mentions of domestic abuse, self-harm, and addiction. The definition of temporary is ‘lasting for only a limited period of time; not permanent’. Yet in the UK, more and more families are finding themselves in temporary accommodation which feels anything but short-lived. With reports of people living for multiple years in so-called 'temporary' housing, just last month, government statistics showed that the number of households in temporary accommodation in England had hit a 25-year high: nearly 105,000 households, including more than 131,000 children. And that's not all - we've heard from families who have lived together in one hotel room for months on end, who have stayed in places with damp, mould, a lack of heating, or worse. So how is this ever worsening crisis solved? This week, Media Storm sets out to speak to people who have lived in temporary accommodation and ask them what they think the solutions are. Plus, we hear from the chair of the London Housing Panel about bringing lived experience into policy-making, and from London's Deputy Mayor for Housing Tom Copely. We are joined in the studio by social issues campaigner and presenter Kwajo Tweneboa, who, after experiencing the UK housing crisis first-hand, is leading the charge for meaningful housing reform. Featured: With thanks to Aishah Siddiqa at Heard heard.org.uk, the charity working with people and the media to inspire content and communication that changes hearts and minds, for putting us in touch with Rebecca, Aga, and Jenni. @londonrentersunion @tomcopley trustforlondon.org.uk/what-we-do/housing/london-housing-panel/ @kwajotweneboa Sources: English Housing Survey data https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/english-housing-survey-2015-to-2016-headline-report  Latest figures on temp housing https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/statutory-homelessness-in-england-january-to-march-2023/statutory-homelessness-in-england-january-to-march-2023 Your hosts are @helenawadia and @mathildamall. Music by Samfire @soundofsamfire. Media Storm was launched by the house of The Guilty Feminist and is part of the Acast Creator Network. Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/media-storm. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Paramoose. Check out the big stars, big series, and blockbuster movies. Streaming on Paramount Plus. Cue the music. Like NCIS, Tony, and Ziva. We'd like to make up for own rules. Tulsa King. We want to take out the competition.

The substance. This balance is not working. And the naked gun. That was awesome. Now that's a mountain of entertainment. Matilda, what is the definition of temporary? Temporary, I guess, like short-lived, stop-gap, short-term. Right, exactly.

For what it's worth, the dictionary definition is lasting for only a limited period of time or not permanent. So, if you're put in temporary accommodation, I think it's fair enough to think that it wouldn't be for a super long period of time. Okay, but first would you just explain what? actually is temporary accommodation. So in the UK, local councils have a duty to house certain people. So people who are legally homeless or who have a priority need, for example. But because of the UK's housing crisis, which we'll be delving into later, longer term housing is hard for councils to find. So many people end up in temporary accommodation meant to be for a short period of time. But I'm guessing from the tone of this introduction, it's not for a short period.

It's really not. I've heard from people throughout this episode who have been in temporary housing for months and months and sometimes multiple years. Wow. And the length of time people stay in so-called temporary accommodation is not the only issue. Just last month, the number of people living in temporary accommodation in England hit a 25-year high. There were over 100,000 households in temporary accommodation. So there's a numbers issue as well. Wow, yeah. And where are these people saying when they're in so-called temporary accommodation? Honestly, it can be anything. So if you're lucky, it's a flat or a house. But often people are housed in hostels, B&Bs and hotel rooms. And there's no guarantee about the conditions of these places. We've heard of people living through some pretty horrendous conditions. Whole families in one hotel room for months on end, broken windows that never get fixed. people staying with no access to any amenities like a washing machine for months or years. And where are these places? Because, you know, you don't want broken windows in a place that isn't a safe location. No, not at all. And we've heard about some pretty sketchy hostel situations, for example. But it is interesting that you bring up that word safe. Because if you don't feel safe physically, if you don't feel physically settled in a home, it's hard to feel safe emotionally.

Completely. This is one of the biggest problems that I came across working in immigration and displacement. It's that transitory state of being that people are kept in with no ability to envisage a long-term future. That mentally is one of the biggest hurdle that people in transit have to deal with. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so let's talk solutions. How do we make temporary housing temporary again, or I guess in an ideal world eradicate it altogether? That's what I've been finding out. I'm off to speak to people about their experiences in temporary housing and find out what they think the solutions are, having lived it. Plus, I'll be speaking to the chair of the London Housing Panel

and to London's Deputy Mayor for Housing, Tom Copley, about what is being done at a local government level. And I'll see you back in the studio with a very special guest, social housing campaigner and presenter, Cuejo Tweneboa, to discuss everything around this media storm. There's damp in nearly every single room. The landlord upped the rent. Millions of tenants struggling to pay the rent in a rising market.

You'd get thrown out for doing nothing wrong. Although temporary, many struggling families have been here for more than a year. Money may run out or that the landlord will kick the rents. When I was trying to buy my first time, I wasn't buying. Smashed avocados for 19 bucks. Welcome to Media Storm, the news podcast that starts for the people who are normally asked last. I'm Helena Wadia. And I'm Mattelda Malinson.

This week's investigation. The Housing Crisis, a lifetime in temporary accommodation. I love this background you've got. Thank you very much. One of my friends as an artist, and for my birthday a few years ago, she came and painted me like, you know, Australia. Wow, it's so cool. I'm speaking to Rebecca via a Zoom call.

She's in her bedroom in Norfolk. Behind her on the wall, a brightly coloured mural of her home country, Australia. The ocean, birds in the trees, orange skies, and of course, kangaroos. So I guess that means that you are no longer in temporary accommodation. Exactly right, yeah, so I'm now in a council house. Rebecca is a single parent to a 10-year-old daughter. She now works as a carer and runs her own business. But her journey with housing has not been an easy one.

I was in temporary accommodation in Norfolk. it was like the 1st of June until like the 18th of March the next year literally 10 months long time we had no contacts in Norfolk we just came here

to escape domestic abuse we couldn't go back to where I was living we were put way out of town we were already very isolated starting our lives again it was literally an old motel and we were in one room just one room

So it was big enough for one standard double bed plus a pop-up tent, which we got that we could pretend that we had another room. Luckily, we had a separate bathroom, which is where I was doing all my important phone calls and where I would just sometimes go and sit in the bath for like a bit of personal space. But, you know, it was really intense. Imagine like me and one kid just sleeping in the one bed, but there was families there with. two parents and six kids and they also were in one room it was really very hard for everybody you end up in Norfolk contemporary accommodation where did you come from we'd previously been living in Wales but we couldn't return there for our safety but I'm the Norfolk County Council still kept threatening to send us there

they kept saying we can't give you housing here you have to go to Cardiff and then I had to fight to stay at the same time you're fighting the council and then you're trying to battle just normal things in life. How do I have enough money? If I'm not working, because I can't actually get there and back again, then how am I supposed to afford food? How am I supposed to, you know, afford bus travel? So then we had to go and shelter

and they had to threaten legal action to get the council, to finally get us a council house. And then when I got a council house, it took me, you know, maybe like a year or two. to feel like I was actually safe. Temporary accommodation was really destabilising. It sort of, yeah, it did a number on us, really. Having lived this, having been through this,

if you were to think about potential solutions, what do you think would have helped you or has helped to you in the short term? One of the most important things would be, like, switching the mindset, the understanding that there's a reason that people are homeless, there's a reason that people end up in temporary accommodation. not just for a laugh. It's always because something really devastating has happened in their

life and they've lost their home. So what would be really helpful would be to have like a whole complex but then downstairs or around the corner very close by was like the domestic abuse agency was shelter, support workers so that they could help you fill in forms or call the right people or get a job or whatever you needed. Just compassion and support. And just normality, that's what people need. Rebecca, I wonder why it was so difficult to find housing in the private rental area. One in two private rentals or one in three private rentals was no kids, no housing benefit, no people on the doll. There's such discrimination in the private rental.

Plus the private rental was crazy. And it's things like a thousand pound a month just in Norfolk for like, a one-bedroom flash, you know? Who can afford that? No wonder then you walk past people and they're on the streets now. Not because they want to be on the streets, but because where else do they go? Rebecca is not alone in having experienced private rental discrimination. I met with Aga. Back in 2018, she was somewhat ironically working as a housing officer, promoting social housing and working with vulnerable people in Haringay, North London. She has two sons and had rented privately for 10 years from the same landlady.

Suddenly, her landlady decided to move back in. So Aga and her two sons had to go. They couldn't find anywhere to live. No children, not dogs. You actually have only few landlords who would accept that. So that was the reason that I had to look for help from council. Aga and her boys ended up in emergency temporary accommodation in Haringay, the exact same area where she had been helping people in her capacity as a housing officer. I was actually sharing the whole hostel with some of the previous people I used to work with addicts and kind of very vulnerable.

Part of our society and I moved there with teenage boys, two teenage boys, supposed to live in one little room that had two beds, three of us. and there was no cooking facilities in a whole building. In the room, it was only one sink, one table and one wardrobe. And we had to share toilets and showers with all the other residents. So basically, overnight, my life turned into like complete chaos because I realized I cannot live there. My children were so frightened to even enter the hostel. and families shouldn't be placed here because they are cockroaches,

there is no cooking facilities, being a mother, our main duty, is to actually feed the children whenever they're hungry, and we couldn't do so. It felt like complete prison. I also lost my job at the time, so my whole life just become really like a spiral. Aga and her boys lived in the hostel for five months. For another two months after,

she won the battle to move into temporary accommodation in Hackney, where her boys went to school. Yet, although they are now out of temporary accommodation, battles continue. This house, when I was given, it was in horrible state, like the whole balcony doors were rotten to the point that the wind would open the doors, and I would really, again, like,

a fight with landlord calling him emailing and just trying for three years to ask, please fix that, because it's been three winters, that we'll be living in the frozen temperature. In my experience, I couldn't deal with anything. I was, like, so overwhelmed. I couldn't even really spend quality time with my children. They couldn't invite their friends to the house.

I was ashamed of where I lived. And also, I was ashamed, like, what did I do wrong? You feel you are nothing. You have nothing to give, and you blame you. yourself. I decided to talk to London Renter's Union because I ran out of my whole strength. I had to put my trust into bigger group of people where we had to go and protest in front of my landlord's agency. Do we have to bleed out for the help to be given? Argo is now an active member of London Renter's Union, a non-profit co-profit.

cooperative company aiming to unite renters and win better housing for everyone. She says solidarity cannot be underrated. The main strength of London Interest Union is a solidarity group. So if you have a problem, you can share that problem and there will be volunteers. They actually step in to become your support team. You are never alone. So through this member's solidarity, at least you don't think you're going to sink. because there will be always someone to kind of pull you out.

Uggar's praise of London Renter's Union made me wonder if similar groups are involved in policymaking. My search led me to the London Housing Panel. I'm Diana Roke. I'm the independent chair of the London Housing Panel. The panel was established 2019 between the GLA. The GLA is the Greater London Authority. And trust for London. and it was a way of bringing diverse voices of different people's experience in housing in London

to the fore that they can influence policymaking and thinking in a way that they might not have been hearing before. The London Housing Panel is made up of diverse groups, including organisations representing the traveller community, LGBTIQ Plus community, those who have been in situations of domestic violence, and disabled people in insecure housing situations. So I asked Dina, why is it important to involve lived experience in policymaking? Hearing those voices gives policymakers a better sense of why they're making their policies, who it is that they're making their policies for, which can sometimes get forgotten.

I think that diversity of voices also ends up with policymaking just being better. One of the panel's priorities is to take action on temporary accommodation. Most recently, they have sent an open letter to Michael Gove, the current housing minister, setting out what can be done to improve the lives of households stuck in temporary accommodation. The ask to Michael Gove is set out in that very clearly in terms of more social housing as a long-term solution, increasing the local housing allowance in the short term so that people can actually afford to pay. their rent and prevent people becoming in need of temporary accommodation. And we need to raise standards of the accommodation that people are having to live in, even if they are supposedly only temporary.

I wonder if you could just tell me a little bit more about local housing allowance, what it is and what change you're asking for. Local housing allowance is calculated as a cap on what can be paid through housing benefit to somebody to subsidise their housing if they can't afford to pay their housing costs. The government's had the local housing allowance capped for a number of years. We all know that local rents in London have just been going up and up and up. And so the ask is, let's raise it in line with what's actually happened. And then not only would that prevent some household falling into homelessness, but it would also mean that if somebody's placed in temporary accommodation in a private rented property,

they'll be able to sustain the tenancy. Also a signatory on the open letter is London's Deputy Mayor for Housing, Tom Copley. He's responsible for implementing the Mayor's Manifesto Commitments relating to housing in London. If you think of all the problems that we have in our society that can be traced back to poor housing, whether it's people's poor health, kids' education being impacted by them living in overcrowded accommodation, there are a whole range of things and a whole range of costs we end up paying down the line because we're not getting housing right. And I do think that if we solve housing,

lots of other things will fall into place. You know, temporary accommodation was never intended to exist outside of emergencies. But now it seems like it's just such a crisis that people don't even know where to begin. I wonder what can be done to even begin to change the standards of temporary accommodation. I think what we really need are a much more new enforceable national standards. And I think that has to include increased decent quality, temporary accommodation as well. One of the limiting factors in that are the various caps and cuts to welfare over the decade or more of austerity that we've had. You've been very fortunate in your own housing situation.

I wonder, how do people in positions of relative power, like yourself, learn from lived experience? When I was a local counsellor, you know, the casework I got, the housing, casework around things like over grounding, temporary accommodation, damp and mould was always the most awful. I think it's about how we listen and engage with people. While nothing can sort of compare to actually going through it in terms of direct experience, it gives you a real insight into the dreadful situations people are going through. You know, I can't see into the minds of government ministers. I would be surprised if they didn't empathise with people's situations, but they go to the Treasury and the Treasury who, of course, isn't sort of on the front line,

that that's the issue. And I just think it needs political vision and ambition to sort it out. I mean, I suppose the big question, really, is that if this problem is raging through London and it's getting worse and temporary accommodation is becoming less and less temporary, why is this not a priority for a government? Is it that it's just very difficult to build housing, or is it more that there's just this lack of political will. I think it's a mixture of things. Although Michael Gove has in many ways talked to a sort of good game on some of these issues, the important thing, the crucial thing is, well, where's the funding? Where's the action? And sadly, we have not seen that. And I think a lot of

that comes down to this obsession with not spending. But my argument is always, well, all you're doing is pushing a problem down the line, having to spend more money, firefighting further down the line when you could spend some money up front to make a lot of these problems go away. So I think it's a mixture of things and they've not risen in terms of their ambition to the scale of this crisis, but it's going to cost a lot more in a long time to sort this out. A short-sighted government is one of the problems Jenny identifies as well. Jenny is an anti-poverty campaigner with lived experience of temporary accommodation. A very difficult long-term solution would be in sure there's housing.

I mean, if there's housing to meet the demand of housing, then that solves that problem. But I appreciate that. That's a simplistic approach. First of all, the naming needs to be changed. It needs to be changed from temporary accommodation to something else, unless it stays as temporary accommodation, and there is a timeline put on that. If you're in temporary accommodation, it will be no longer than X number of months, just to manage people's expectations. This is Jenny's story.

I was one of the lucky ones. I say lucky in inverted commas because I was there for a total of six months. I was in a hostel for four months. Then for my own safety, I was moved to a hotel for a month and then a bed and breakfast for a month. When I went into the accommodation, I was in a mental health crisis and I believed I was at rock bottom. But my experiences in that hostel meant I sank even lower. It was noisy, all the time. There was prolific drug and alcohol abuse, violence. I mean, it seemed that the police or ambulance service were there every single day due to violent attacks or self-harm. I had items stolen from me, which is awful at any time, but just to clarify, I went in there with one backpack full of possessions and nothing else. So I couldn't afford to replace what was taken from me. There was Wi-Fi, but that was in the communal area. And as much as I did, I did, didn't want to interact with other people. I did need to update my Universal Credit Journal, which needed Wi-Fi. So inevitably, I had to go down to that communal area every

day, and there was always heated arguments fighting going on down there. I mean, so many things you've said there have brought up a lot of feelings of insecurity and of danger and of just not being comfortable. I wonder if you can describe the effect. it has on a person to be in an insecure housing situation, to be in something that's called temporary accommodation, but just when there doesn't really seem to be an end in sight. Yeah, so I guess you're living from day to day. That's the first thing to say. The long-term mental health effect is phenomenal. I don't think you can put words to it, really. I mean, it took me at least three years after moving into social housing to gain any kind of confidence back

I also have epilepsy and my seizures are stress triggered and it took a good couple of years for me to get my seizures back under control after leaving the accommodation. And to this day, I hate strangers like gas engineers, for example, being in my flat as it still triggers those feelings I had of being scared in the temporary accommodation. In order to move from temporary accommodation into social housing, where Jenny is now, she needed a two-weeks,

deposit and here she identifies a potential short-term solution. If I'd had that money, I could have been out of temporary accommodation within about two months, but I had to wait until I had the two weeks. So just to put it into perspective, at the time I was receiving £291 a month in order to do the two weeks deposit, which isn't a lot to a lot of people pounds-wise, but it was 62% of what I was getting in that month. So I actually had to wait. It was another three months and then I had to wait a month to move in until I was eligible for an advance from universal credit in order to afford that deposit. I think you let people pay that two-week deposit in increments. So whether they pay it over a three, four-month period, that would have

helped me completely. And if people are on universal credit, that's dead easy because they can take that incremental payment, straight from your payment, send it to the Housing Association, so there's no risk of non-payment. I think that's such a simple fix. It's taken me years, until now, to be able to talk about my experience in temporary accommodation. So I think it's important that people understand what it's like and know what it's like. And I hope that I'm giving a voice for those people who are stuck in the accommodation system to make change to ensure that they're not stuck in it for much longer. If there's anything I've learned from these interviews,

it's that short and long-term solutions, amid fighting a lack of political will, do exist. We just have to listen. But it begs the question, are the media amplifying the right voices? That takes us back to the studio. Thanks for sticking around. Welcome back to the studio and to Media Storm, the podcast that starts with the people who are normally asked last.

Today we're talking about temporary accommodation, social housing and how these issues are represented in the media. Joining us is a very special guest. He is a 24-year-old social issues campaigner and leading the charge for meaningful housing reform. He's also the presenter of Channel 4's untold episode, Help, My Home is disgusting, taking on social housing tenants and private renters calls for help.

Welcome to the podcast, Cuejo-Twenaboa. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for being here. In the first half of this episode, we heard from people with lived experience about temporary accommodation and also got their expertise

on what they think the solutions are to the problem. Could you tell us a bit about your lived experience, about how you got into campaigning for social housing reform? I've experienced, to me and my family, temporary accommodation firsthand. Ours was absolutely horrific. We were in essentially a converted car garage that had been poorly knocked together. I was sharing a room with my sisters. We had a shower, toilet that was the size of literally a broom cupboard. The place was infested with ants.

We had dampened mould in the bedrooms. It was just absolutely appalling. It's more like a building site. After that, we moved into our social housing that we finally got in the end. But again, we had issues with mice, cockroaches, damp, mould. It had no windows in there and the light was filled with rainwater every time that it rained.

It was described as not fit for even animals to be living in when a workman did finally show up to do some work. My dad became ill. Then passed away in January 2020, being treated in those conditions and the reason I'm here today is because we were simply ignored before and after he passed away. So I turned to social media and the news to shame my landlord into carrying out necessary works not just for myself and my estate, but for neighbouring estates too in my area and since then gone up and down the country speaking to residents in situations

like me and my family were in. Good for you. Can I just ask how long were you in your family in this converted garage before you were relocated? It was a good few years. And then your father is ill and expected to live in those conditions. And that's what fuelled you. Even now, actually, I can't help the fact that you feel guilty for your own parent being in those conditions. The fact that at a time when you most need to be looked after and the support and to be listened to when you're essentially dying, he wasn't. And for the majority of his life, he worked looking after the elderly.

He was a carer himself. so at the time that he needed to be looked after, he wasn't. That's what really angers me, how you can just sit back in a place of work, a profession, when you know you're supposed to be looking after some of the countries' most vulnerable individuals and someone is telling you they are dying, but they want to die comfortably

and they don't want to be living in those sorts of conditions, yet they're simply ignored. It's so much for a teenage boy to have to take on and the fact that then it actually took you pressuring and shaming your landlord for any action to be taken. Really shows what a state of crisis we're in, but I love you just to help us define some of the terms that we're going to be using a lot today.

One of the terms you see all the time in media discussions around this is the housing crisis. So it's important to define what exactly that is. It's really hard to define the housing crisis, actually, because there's so many elements to it, the fact we don't have enough social housing, and the fact that we've got 1.4 million people waiting to get into social housing. And as a result, those waiting are essentially homeless and in-temporary accommodation,

having to sofa, surf, etc. But then on the other side, you also have the private rented sector where rents are at some of the highest levels we've ever seen. People are struggling to pay their rents. And as a result, are being evicted, section 21, no-fault evictions going through the roof. And then on top of that, also you see with mortgages and what we've seen in the last year, with interest rates, and the way in which that's affected those with mortgages,

but also it's affected private renters too because that cost has been pushed down onto them. So it's made an already difficult subject even worse. When do you think we can trace the current housing crisis back to you? Oh, this housing crisis isn't one that's been built in the last year. It's something that's developed for the last 70 years plus. Only a few weeks ago I watched a show called Kathy Come Home. So it came out in the 1960s, right?

And the scariest part was I watched it and thought this is exactly what is happening to people now. So is it getting worse or is it just a chronic systemic problem that we've failed to address? I think it's a mixture of both housing's not been seen as a priority in this country. I mean, I know housing was very much pushed in the 1980s under Margaret Thatcher and obviously the introduction of right to buy, which was extended under David Cameron in 2016. Yes, housing at that point was seen as a priority. I think for all the wrong reasons. And the reason I say that is because it was one year we actually knocked down

and sold off more social homes that we actually built in that year. Oh my God. We cannot be doing that. But the fact is it is we could easily make it priority. But we don't in this country see housing as a necessity like they do in places like Germany or Vienna, for example, and they've done really well with their social housing. What we see it as is an investment. We see it as an asset.

Well, actually, Maslow's hierarchy of needs states we all need shelter in order to function. It's so true what you're saying. I have a background in humanitarian aid. We would talk about shelter as the basest level of need that has to be met in a time of crisis. Yet in our society, we don't see housing as shelter. We don't see it as the basis level of need. We see it as property. If you just look at the language that we use for housing,

or you've got to get on the property ladder, or you're part of the renter economy, this defines housing in my mind as a commodity. That's absolutely, and I've said at the next general election, that's what they need to do, political parties. They need to stop seeing housing as an asset like they have done for the last few decades. You cannot fix a housing crisis without fixing the foundations first. If they're able to fix social housing and provide that safety net for British society, that's going to massively increase productivity in this country,

labour efficiency. People aren't going to have to be worrying about their mental health and taking time off of work. But what we're seeing is even in this lead up to the next general election, we're seeing both parties pushing this idea of home ownership off of the back of the cost of living crisis where people are even struggling to feed their kids and pay their heating, their electricity, never mind have any slight chance to save up in order to get onto a property ladder. I want to talk a little bit more about that kind of dream of home ownership because you mentioned

right to buy. Could you just quickly tell us what right to buy was? It was a Thatcher policy, right? Yeah, it was. It was introduced in the 1980s under Margaret Thatcher basically allowing those who were in council housing to purchase their home at a discounted rate, which on the surface to people back then would have sounded absolutely great. And I've spoken to people who took advantage of that back then or their parents did, who now turn around and say it was probably the biggest mistake for social housing. I would completely agree. And why is that? Because there was a promise made back then that council homes would be sold off, but they would also be replaced. Since then, consecutive. government up until this point have not built enough homes. And when I say enough homes, that also mean enough quality homes. But what we've been doing is continuing to sell the homes

that we do have in the dwindling stock. And then obviously on top of that, we had 2016 the introduction of right to buy under housing associations. So housing association property is then being sold off. And now what we found, we've got record levels of homelessness and people in temporary accommodation. What was interesting about Thatcher's right to buy, though, is that it was often surrounded by really positive language and build as this hugely aspirational policy. And even as recently as last year, there were articles about the then Prime Minister Boris Johnson wanting to reignite Thatcher's right to buy policy. I mean, this from the Daily Mail, as example reads,

tenants who are on benefits will be offered new packages to help them buy their own homes as Boris Johnson rekindles Thatcher's right to buy revolution. I was wondering, does the media in any way hold that policy to account for the crime? crisis it helped to create. I don't think just the media too, the general public, because there was this whole push under Margaret Thatcher's Right to Buy scheme and David Cameron, that anyone that questioned the idea of right to buy or criticised it, they'd turn around and say, so do you think working class individuals shouldn't be able to own their own home? Is that what you're saying? What they didn't tell people was that they weren't going to build and replace those homes and

that in 30, 40 years, there are going to be people just like you working class individuals who would be homeless in poor quality temporary accommodation or social housing, genuinely really, really suffering. They kept that bit out. The term right to buy is about as meaningful as the term take back control. It's a political slogan, not an accurate name of a policy. And if a media just kind of regurgitates it, it's really failing to be critical. Another term that I think we would really benefit from defining is affordable housing. I see this term affordable housing. referred to always as a kind of solution in these discussions and I'm like, well, people can afford different things. So what actually is genuine affordability? I've met with politicians

and told them to get rid of this term because it means absolutely nothing. If someone's paying the majority of their monthly income on rent, that isn't affordable, but still it's defined as affordable housing. Like the term is hollow in itself. What's affordable to me is going to be unaffordable for the next person. And what's affordable for someone in the House of Commons, it's going to be completely unaffordable to me. They need to be clear about what it is they're offering us. How much social housing are you going to build? You should break it down and make it clear what it is people are paying for.

So people can criticise and scrutinise it. But it's one of those blanket terms that is used to sound good. We've tackled some media myths and social narratives about housing. So I think we should also talk about some of the myths and narratives that come up about the type of people that live in social housing and how the media portray them. What are some of the biggest misconceptions about the type of people that live in social housing?

We've always had a negative stigma about those who live in social housing. People in social housing, they can get off their backside and go out and work and get a job like the rest of us, stop scrounging on benefits. You lot should be grateful for what you have. There's this assumption that everyone in social housing is scrounging off the government and taxpayers, they're sat on their

ass day in, day out, basically 24-7 doing nothing. And actually I do have a stat here from the English Housing Survey data which actually shows that just 7% of social housing tenants are unemployed and 70% are working or retired. And that is completely in antithesis to what is portrayed in the media,

in pop culture, I mean, from what we were talking about before, to me, it does seem like a very convenient political tool for the government to stigmatise those in social housing. Absolutely, you're right. And it's something that's perpetuated by social housing landlords too when they're supposed to come out and do repairs, right? What they do sometimes, they don't even ring you, they will just show up and knock on your door and expect you to be in. Don't think you have a job. Don't think you'd have any other commitments. and if you don't answer your front door,

they turn around and say you refuse them access to the property to carry out the works. It goes to show that the stereotype in their mind is what else are social housing tenants going to be doing other than waiting in for us to come and carry out their repairs. And those are the sorts of undertones. It's a cultural thing. When a lot of people think of social housing,

they just think of Benefit Street. That was a Channel 4 documentary made roughly about 10 years ago, which followed the lives of several people in Birmingham who lived on, they quote, one of Britain's most benefit-dependent streets. What's interesting is that actually since the show, a few of the people who are on the show say that Channel 4 didn't give them adequate aftercare and they weren't prepared for the force of negative stereotypes and trolls

and everything that came their way. Important to say that that has been disputed by Channel 4 and Love Productions who made the show have previously denied allegations that the show was poverty porn. That's the word I was going to use because that's exactly what it is. That is exactly how I see it. So I want to ask about how we can bridge the gap when we are reporting on the social housing crisis. How do we shine a light on what people are going through

without feeding poverty porn? Could you just tell us a little bit about the narratives and the impressions of people in social housing that you think we should be putting out as an alternative? I've met so many different families professionals solicitors doctors nurses teachers key workers living in social housing carers i've met people from all different walks of life working in the prison system social worker people that work for news media and broadcasters yeah from a variety of different backgrounds living in social housing that

you probably wouldn't if you went by the stereotype wouldn't think do live in social housing and people really really suffer especially living in disrepair mentally and with the stigma if they do speak out they feel like they're going to be blamed that's the automatic assumption is that it's their fault they're the reason why they're living in the way that they are and through my work although it is shocking and disgraceful some of the things i have to highlight standing in people's homes flooded with raw sewage taking people to a and e because the ceilings caved in on top of them those conditions although I have to show the extent to how bad it is, I want to because I think it's very, very important to highlight what it is

that these individuals, human beings are being subject to in the sixth richest economy in the world, but by also telling their story too and the fact that in these situations, they are the victim, they don't want to live like this, they're being forced to, but I think we should never ever try and soften the reality or make it look nicer than what it is. people need to see the reality in order to try and push for change, systemic change.

But what we also need to be doing is showing and telling the stories of those actually having to live in those conditions because you will realise these are actually your everyday people that you walk past, that you work with, that you see on a daily basis, that work hard. But because they are in social housing and from a working class background, they are treated their way that they are. Yeah. I mean, you got picked up on this.

and have gone very quickly to becoming some sort of, like, figurehead. How is it being put on TV panels and live news? Have you found that to be okay, or have you been put in debates and situations that are just completely unreasonable? For me, anyway, in my situation, the media has been great too in terms of covering stories. I started off with ITV news,

and they were talking about the same sorts of issues that I'm talking about now. That's been great, but there's been other subjects on housing where I have done panels and I've just thought, like, I can't believe I'm actually debating this. I can't believe this actually has to be debated. Why am I debating the fact that people should be living in sheltered accommodation where the ceiling isn't going to cave in on top of them? Why is that debatable? Why isn't that just the norm? I actually believe it's a human right in our human rights. Thank you. Why is it that that is debatable? My bottom line is, I will just ask them, would you live in those conditions? If the answer is no, then there is no excuse and there's no argument here as to why anyone,

regardless of race, regardless of background, regardless of class, why anyone should be subject to those conditions. It's time now to take a look at some of the stories making headlines on this topic. We'll start from this from the Times in June. The headline reads, Prince William, I want to end homelessness in Britain. This article says Prince William unveils his vision to end the plight of hidden homelessness and tells us how he will expose George, Charlotte and Louis, his children, to the problem.

Here's the thing, though. This interview with Prince William was actually written before his plans to end homelessness could actually be revealed. The journalist says William repeatedly mentions the name of his new five-year project, details of which are underwraps until the end of the month. Now, surely it would have been much more fitting to do this interview once the actual plans had been unveiled. I want to ask you on a basic level, are articles and interviews like this where exceptionally privileged people are being asked about issues like homelessness and the housing crisis useful? That's a very interesting question. It depends. It depends if they put their money where their mouth is and actually do something because I say in the grand scheme of things anyway, when it comes to politicians, a lot of them have chat.

but what I care about and not just politicians, housing providers too, is what they're actually doing behind the scenes. That's what's important. I think in this particular case, I remember seeing this and I remember seeing it come out and I was glad that it was being spoken about, because let's be honest. Having a member of the royal family talk about an issue like this, I think is huge because if not, I'd be arguing why are they not talking about these issues? Obviously, it's going to be interesting to see what happens off the back of this. But for me, to have Prince William speak out on it when you've got politicians who aren't willing to. I get that. Look, I get that.

Obviously, if you have that platform, it's better to use it to raise awareness to these than to not. But just like this article, I had a very visceral reaction against it. To me, it was just all you needed to know about class in Britain. And the fact that you said, oh, you know, it's useful. It seems to be the only way that we can make housing a palatable issue is to dress it up in royalist fluff. because this piece, if you actually read it,

it was not a piece about homelessness and housing. It was not a coherent piece of policy that we are able to scrutinize. In fact, whenever he was asked about the policy, he was like, oh, I can't really reveal it yet. And so what it was was a eulogy to Prince William's charitable nature and the fact that he wants to expose his children to homelessness.

I mean, the language he uses that I found so condescending, he would tell us about how he told his children, that some of us need a little bit of a helping hand. And I just thought he's clearly not even equipped to explain homelessness to his children, let alone the rest of us. Because, yes, he should be doing this. But this is the bare minimum he should be doing.

I mean, why not open some of the many bedrooms in your many houses that are vacant for most of the year, you know, in Windsor or Kensington or Sandringham? And I think the fact that we're ready, to make a headline about the fact that our prince, Prince William, who is like duchy of thousands of acres of land in Cornwall, wants to end homelessness in Britain. Like, sorry, stand up anyone if you don't want to end homelessness.

Can I get a headline because I want to end homelessness in Britain? I get what you mean. And there will be a lot of critique in that sense. And again, it comes back to class and the class divide. We want the stigma and culture with social housing to change at every level. There is obviously a lot more that the royal family could be doing, I think. can some will question whether it's just a sort of PR exercise. I really don't care about these sorts of titles.

Yes, they sound nice on the surface. What I'll be looking for is what's going on in the background? What's actually happening? What are you actually doing behind the scenes? That's going to make meaningful change. For those that are homeless, those living on the streets, those that are hidden homeless, and those who are genuinely suffering because of the life that they were born into.

And I hope so. I mean, when there was some hint at what the policy angle would be, there was promise, you know, he talked about Finland's housing first scheme and he talked about preventing homelessness rather than managing homelessness. But then as soon as that paragraph got a bit too like technical, it then changed paragraph in the article reads, William laughs. Sorry, I waffle on a bit. And then it goes back to Princess Charlotte and Prince George or whatever. Yeah. Actions, not words. That's it. And I say it time and time again, not just members of the royal family, but also I say all the time of politicians, I actually don't

care about what is that you say is what is that you do and I watch and I wait for that you hear that Prince William. Quojo will be watching I'll be watching he'll be waiting if you're listening Prince William I'll be watching sorry I haven't listened to your podcast yet no I hope something I really do hope something comes of this but we have to wait and see yeah hey Joe can't thank you enough being here today can you tell us where we can follow you or if you have anything to plug yes I've changed my recently on social media. So it is just my name, Quajot, Tonabal, on Instagram and Twitter. And on TikTok, it's Quadro Housing.

Thank you for listening. We have a little change up to our schedule coming, so I want to take a minute to let you know how the rest of the season is going to play out. Season 3 of Media Storm will run until the end of October, but the next few weeks will be dominated by a special investigation. We're looking forward to breaking. It's no secret that UK police forces, like many policing institutions around the world, faced proven accusations of racism and sexism. But many forces have refused to hold their hands up to it and many of the systems that hold it together remain unchanged. At Media Storm, we have spent months collating never seen before data that provides hard statistical evidence

of this discrimination, as well as pinpointing one of the places it's arising, recruitment. Over the next three weeks, we'll be analysing this data with experts and stakeholders, both inside and outside the force to make sure a really nuanced, constructive, solutions-focused discussion comes from the data we've uncovered. We also have a live show coming up on Saturday the 16th of September

and we'd love to see your faces in the crowd and for drinks at the bar afterwards. But for those of you who can't make it, we'll be releasing it on our feed in the weeks that follow. And don't worry, we'll be back with another instalment of our usual investigation and studio discussion before the end of the season.

For our final investigation of season three, we'll be speaking to international resistance fighters and exploring the line between terrorism and freedom fighting. Follow MediaStorm wherever you get your podcast that you can get access to new episodes as soon as they drop. If you like what you hear, share this episode with someone and leave us a five-star rating and a review. It really helps more people discover the podcast and our aim is to have as many people as possible hear these voices. You can also follow us on social media at Matilda Mal at Helena Wadiah. and follow the show via at MediaStormPod. Get in touch and let us know what you'd like us to cover

or who you'd like us to speak to. MediaStorm is an award-winning podcast produced by Helena Wadia and Matilda Mallinson. It came from the house of a guilty feminist and is part of the ACAS creator network. The music is by Samfair. Follow her on social media at Sound of Samfire.