Media Storm - S4E10 Just Stop Oil: Why do people hate them so much?

Episode Date: August 15, 2024

Cult members. Fanatics. Selfish. Evil. All words that have been used to describe climate activists in the mainstream media. Just Stop Oil have made many headlines since 2022, be it by stopping traffic or throwing powder on Stonehenge in their token orange shade. Last month, five members were sent to prison with the longest sentences ever given for peaceful protest in the UK. But what does the group actually want? If it weren't for the name, Just Stop Oil's aims would be largely absent from press reports, which focus on the public nuisance caused by the group rather than the climate change message behind it. Are the horror stories of blockaded ambulances all to be believed, or is the media misrepresenting the group? If so, why? Why do the public apparently hate them so much? And why hasn't this stopped them? We're joined by Just Stop Oil spokesperson Adrian Johnson and climate journalist Diyora Shadijanova. Plus, your round-up of the headlines through a Media Storm lens: exposés of NHS strike 'plots', the reasons for inaccuracies coming out of Gaza, an Islamophobic Daily Mail front page, and... dogs?  As a take home message, we also speak to Emma Webber, mother of Nottingham attacks victim Barnaby Webber, about victims' consent in true crime and her reaction to the riots that followed the Southport stabbings. Hosts: Mathilda Mallinson (@mathildamall) and Helena Wadia (@helenawadia) Music: Samfire (@soundofsamfire) Assistant Producer: Katie Grant Support Media Storm on Patreon! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Can you believe it? I'm ill again. Like, out of the back of a heat wave, I have a cold. I feel like I've forgotten what it feels like to not be ill. Why am I so weak? Is it still, like, post-lockdown immune failings? Maybe. Maybe it's because I've just married a kid doctor who keeps giving me children's germs.

What's selfish. Yeah, that's probably it. Like, you know how, like, teachers are always ill because they're around kids all the time. Probably that. Yeah, but then they build up strength and what about their partners? No one ever talks about that. That's an underrepresented voice. Maybe you've got like heat stroke.

Are the symptoms of heat stroke? Like blocked nose, waking up sneezing. That sounds like hay fever. Can you develop hay fever? Yeah, for sure. No, you can't stop it. What? Yeah, of course you can.

It's like I refuse to get tested for gluten intolerance despite having serious, no, maybe I should not. I need to learn to not talk about my digestive problem every time I go on air. It's fine. I always pretend I'm not lactose intolerant and I definitely am. So, that's the update for us and our health and our digestive systems this week. What else has been in the news? Send it any questions. What else has been in the news?

It has been a big news week for dogs. Dogs? Yeah, dogs. Just play the newsbed, okay? Okay. Tourists have vowed to boycott Turkey after President Erdogan sparked protests by ordering the mass euthanation. of millions of stray dogs. Or as some have described them,

Erdogan's latest scapegoats after refugees, journalists, and intellectuals. One in three British dog owners say they don't allow their pet to swim in the sea because of sewage dumping, it comes after three water firms were fined a record 168 million pounds for illegally dumping waste in our waters. And Snoop Dogg sought out the Paris Olympics with some mellow badminton commentary. China in the US right here, back and forth. Give me that. No, I'm not.

I need that. No, over here, nope, over there. What about over there? Nope, what about there? No, give me that. I need that, that too. Also, Dolce and Gabana have released their latest perfume, and it's a perfume for dogs. But the RSBCA is unhappy and has said, don't put perfume on your dogs. This is what happens when I leave Matilda to do the headlines herself. This is what I read this week. Right. But in non-dog related news, if you'll allow me to,

UK riot trials have seen dozens given prison and community sentences. Western leaders are trying to talk Iran out of retaliating against Israeli strikes and it's A-level results day. Not convinced any of that is as important as Dolcey and Gavana for dogs. But like fine. Well, Media Storm is about the voices missing from the mainstream news. Dogs. So woof-woof, what might listeners have missed this week?

This week, BBC Panorama investigated the Nottingham attacks committed by Valdo Calicane, who was psychotic and suffering paranoid delusions last June, asking whether mental health system failings led to an otherwise preventable tragedy. But while the Panorama documentary spoke to Callicane's family, the victim's families were neither invited to participate nor informed until two weeks before. It's that tricky, true crime question, isn't it? where's the balance between shining a spotlight on system failings and giving consent and respect to victims' families?

Exactly. So I reached out to one of the victim's mothers, Emma Weber, and she'll be joining us later to talk about this very tricky question. That's great. I'm very intrigued to see what she has to say. Okay, so I have a media storm headline for you. Brace yourself. Okay. This was the Daily Express's front page

on Monday. Exposed. Junior doctors plot to cripple NHS again. The NHS should just get rid of all doctors and then it would just stop being so crippled. Right? So the article supposedly offers secret insight into a British Medical Association meeting where a union rep advises junior doctors to vote yes on the current pay rise offer but prepare for further striking next year. In the Express's terms, a plot. by junior doctors to strike again, despite already banking a huge payrides, is today exposed by the Daily Express.

Note that they've replaced the word strike with the word plot, basically implying it's a secret when like isn't the whole point of a strike to be as visible as possible. Media Storm spoke to the BMA, which is the trade union in question, who said this was never a secret. They have expressed publicly the potential of junior doctors re-entering the dispute. down the line and gave an official statement very similar to the Express's leaked meeting. It says, we are recommending our members vote yes to this offer, which would represent the first step towards restoring junior doctor's pay. Make no mistake that we are determined to restore

the pay that has been lost to real term cuts since 2008. But we never said this would be in one year. Gosh, very secretive. Thank God for the expose. You know, it's actually like a bit embarrassing because it reeks of the Express, patting itself on the back. Our revelations led to Tory MPs accusing the Labour Party of being too weak to stand up to its union paymasters. Like, wow, it led to the opposition opposing the government, really game-changing stuff. Okay, I do have some praise for the media this week. Oh, good idea.

Go on then. Earlier this week on the BBC's Today program, Radio 4, Michelle Hussein, who I actually kind of love, she interviews an Israeli government spokesperson and does such a good job and it's such an important interview to hear because what it plays out in real time is the reason it's so hard to get any accurate information on what's happening in Gaza. The fact that, you know, the Western media doesn't talk to Hamas officials means it relies on Gaza and civilians like doctors to provide information that doesn't come from Israeli government officials. But then you have Israeli government officials trying to discredit these civilians accounts,

either calling them pseudometics and or terrorists. But then at the same time, not allowing international journalists into Gaza. 95 to 100 bodies was the assessment of that doctor. How many people does Israel believe were killed in that strike on Saturday? So, Michelle, we've grown extremely skeptical about pseudo-medical staff giving these sorts of slightly tinged with politics reports from Gaza. Okay, Mr. Menza, I'm going to stop you there. So rather than slur, rather than slur the person we've just heard from,

just give me your, no, well, that's what you've just done by calling him pseudo-medical. Why don't you just answer the question. How many people does Israel, how much, how much, many people does Israel believe were killed? That's all I asked. And you're not letting me speak. So please allow me, do me the courtesy of allowing me to speak. Now, I don't know Dr. Michelle, but I heard him earlier. Dr. Ellesse. I heard him earlier. You know, that doesn't sound like a doctor to me. That sounds more like a propaganda. So what's your answer to the question? How many people does Israel believe were killed on Saturday?

So I'll tell you, we've released the names and the photos and the crimes of these 19 terrorists that we know that we targeted and that we eliminated in this compound. There's nothing independent which gives anything like the inflated figures because there is a track history of Hamas and Islamist. You're saying no one else died beyond the 19 people that you've named. I'm saying there is a track record. here of overinflated figures

of coming up with catastrophic numbers almost immediately. It is practically impossible to come up with these figures almost immediately. But you don't have alternative figures and the reason that we don't have independent ones is because you don't let international journalists into Gaza. We will do nothing, nothing whatsoever

to jeopardise the safety of our hostages. We're trying to get 115 of those people out now. If journalists are there, that places the situation even more complicated. There is a pattern in interviews like this when you are able to be very precise about the people who you say were Hamas operatives or those from other militant organisations who were killed. But then absolutely no information about who might have died beyond that. And that is only credible unless you know civilians died and you don't want to face that.

You as the BBC, you do no credit to ordinary garsons by just blindly repeating what terrorist organizations, ISIS-like organization, the information which they feed you. You're not doing the British listener any justice. We're not doing the Palestinian cause any justice. We're not. You've just voted 100 people killed. There's nothing, no relation to the truth. I quoted a doctor who's spoken to us this morning who said 95 to 100 bodies. That was Michelle Hussein interviewing an Israeli government spokesperson on the BBC Today program.

Basically, what we're hearing in this clip is the Israeli government demanding journalists rely solely on their version of events to cover the war, which would not be journalism. Right. It's so important to understand how much accuracy is lacking in coverage of Gaza. and I think especially when it comes to easily shareable things on social media. So I spotted something in June. A letter published in The Lancet, which is a prestigious medical journal, claimed that even if Israel's bombing campaign were to stop, the death toll in Gaza could eventually be about 186,000 people. Now, this letter was written by the director of the Population Health Research Institute

at McMaster University in Canada and by a clinical epidemiologist these are well-respected people writing this letter were not disputing that. The number they reached was based on predictions if, for example, damage to healthcare infrastructure was to continue, lack of clean water and food. These are all things that would contribute

to the high gas and death toll. The authors of the letter made clear that the figures are an estimate because death figures in a situation like this are really hard to be accurate about. Especially when you have, you know, this active information obscuring campaign. Exactly. However, that number of 186,000 became this really shareable graphic on Instagram, on Twitter,

and that number was being widely shared as the firm figure for the current death toll. And listen, like, we should be outraged. Like, it is likely the final death toll, whatever that means, is going to be measured in hundreds of thousands. and we need to keep eyes and attention on Gaza. But I make this point about the Lancet letter to say that when we are outraged by misinformation, we do ourselves a disservice. Can I close this introduction with a big fat fact check about the ethnicity of the man who stabbed a woman

and an 11-year-old girl in Leicester Square on Monday? A question muddled by the Daily Mail, despite the very fucking raw memory of race. racist riots following basically identical misinformation. Yes, please. So you've likely read that on Monday, a man stabbed a girl and her mother in Leicester Square. They are thankfully alive they are recovering. The man was white.

You may also have read that a security guard intervened and risked his life and successfully disarmed the attacker. That man was a Muslim British man named Abdullah. And yet, the Daily Mail has repeatedly chosen. to place a photo of Abdullah with misleading headlines like this, in all caps, knifed at random, and then a picture of Abdullah. Lester Square Knifeman who stabbed mother and daughter did not know them, police believe, with a picture of Abdullah. Also, Lester Square stabbed victims were stabbed by strangers

with a photo of Abdullah and Abdullah alone. I mean, do we seriously need to explain this one? Oh my God, you're showing me those photos now. that is mind-blowing, that is, I was going to say that is so irresponsible, but maybe it's deliberate. It's worse. Given how much violent disorder and terrorisation of minorities in this country we've seen over the last week, if that is deliberate, that is unforgivable. Agree.

Okay, I have one quick pitch for a future media storm episode before we move on, Hunters. Who? Fox. Fox hunters, yeah, one pro fox hunting group has announced their plans to have hunters legally declared an ethnic minority with protected beliefs so their hunts can be safeguarded under equality laws. It's exactly the kind of underrepresented minority we built this podcast platform. You know what? I don't know if people know you're being sarcastic and I have literally no more comments. So can we please just don't.

the show now. Right, what are we actually talking about this week? Today, two women are appearing in court charged with damage to planes and aggravated trespass as part of a plan to paint two private jets orange by the environmental activist group Just Stop Oil and there's reason to expect tough sentences if found guilty. Last month, five Just Stop Oil protesters received the longest sentences ever given for peaceful protest in the UK, sentences of four and five years for planning to block the M25 motorway. They were sentenced on the back of a Zoom call seeking to organise the blockage. Now bear in mind, the toughest sentence given out so far for those involved in the UK's violent riots is three years. So today we ask, just stop oil. Why do people

hate them so much. Is it fair? Now they have sprayed paint at public buildings, thrown suit, put artworks and glued themselves to road. I think it's a cult, just up oil. We're trying to uphold the science. The science is being ignored. How dare you to me? Plate us with terrorism. How dare you? We're asking you to side with young people. Stop shouting at me. How on earth can it be justified? Welcome to Media Storm, the news podcast that starts with the people who are normally asked last. I'm Helena Wadia and I'm Matilda Malinson. This week's Media Storm. Just Stop Oil. Misconceptions, misreporting, missed opportunities. Calling all book lovers. The Toronto International Festival of Authors brings you a world of stories all in one place. Discover five days of readings, talks,

workshops and more with over 100 authors from around the world, including Rachel Maddow, Keturo Isaku, here in Desai. The Toronto International Festival of Authors October 29th to November 2nd. Details and tickets at Festival of Authors.cate. Check out the big stars, big series, and blockbuster movies.

Streaming on Paramount Plus. Cue the music. Like NCIS, Tony and Ziva. We'd like to make up our own rules. Tulsa King. We want to take out the competition. The Substance. This balance is not working.

And the naked gun. That was awesome. Now that's a mountain of entertainment. Haramark Wolf. Welcome to the Media Storm Studio. Joining us today are two very special guests. Our first guest is a spokesperson for Just Stop Oil. He's based in Scotland and has taken part in direct action,

including being arrested at Glasgow Airport for holding a sign that says Oil Kills. We'll talk about that in more depth later, but for now, welcome Adrian Johnson. Thank you. Very happy to be here. Our second guest is a multimedia journalist and writer who is currently the senior editor at The Lead. She has written for a variety of publications, including The Guardian, the Independent Vice and more. She was formerly climate editor at Galdem and the editor at Act Climate, which focused on strategic climate comms. Welcome, Diora, Shadowdanova. Thank you so much for having.

So the first thing we want to talk about today is what Justop Oil actually stands for. Adrian, can you just sum up what Just Stop Oil's demands and aims actually are? So we are calling on governments globally to commit to a legally binding treaty, the fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty, which will bind governments to commit to ending the extraction and burning of all fossil fuels, that's oil, coal and gas, by 20. and to work together with other nations to help them to do the same, to transition fairly and quickly and equitably to no fossil fuels. And Diora, do you think that aim described by Adrian of Justup Oils is getting accurately

portrayed in the mainstream media? I think it's more about what the mainstream media doesn't say about the wider picture around the environment and the climate crisis. There's a really heavy focus on the protesters, very much like a hypocrisy lens that the media tries to play. They will, you know, go through their social media profiles and try and find any pictures that might, you know, say, oh, wow, this person, you know, they got on a plane five years ago. And that must mean that they should never be protesting something like this. But I think that says much more about the mainstream media than it does about Justice O'Paul.

And I think there's such a lack of focus on polluters themselves. It's just frustrating that we're talking so much about tactics and who the environmentalists are over what we actually need to do to get climate justice, and we're just wasting so much time, basically. Quick question, complex answer. Why? If the media is, you know, persistently misrepresenting just up oil, why? There are probably multiple factors here. I think outrage is certainly one of them. The Sun and the Daily Mail have really tapped into kind of outrage clicks, which just drives up their engagement. in terms of a business strategy, that explains it. But I think also when you're looking at who funds these publications, if you start tracing the money, you kind of notice that a lot of the funders also have loads of money invested in, like, polluters.

Pollutors have their own interests, and they often give money to publications that will just reiterate these narratives. We're definitely going to get into a lot of this media coverage in a little bit. But first, I just want to hear from Adrian, you know, you have had experiences of going on, especially broadcast media as a just-a-boil spokesperson. I've seen you've been on GB News on talk TV. What have those experiences been like? Scary. One feels that one is like brought into those rooms to defend the indefensible.

You know, what we have done, what I have done is shocking, disgusting, despicable. You know, that's the framing that is presented to me. I mean, the other day I was interviewed by James Whale and Ashgold Talk TV. I sat in their studio and we had a really, you know, pleasant conversation. They even allowed me to explain to them and their viewers of what is causing global heating. So, you know, a great opportunity, quite remarkable. And then I get home and I watched the interview and the strapline underneath me is eco-terrorists. Wow.

Okay. So I had no idea. that that was the strap line. So, yeah, I have to remind myself, sort of check with the data that I haven't gone completely mad that I'm not some sort of fanatic that's being selfish or supporting an organisation full of selfish people, that actually we are doing this because we are fighting for our lives. It's always challenging, but it's always important. You know, as you mentioned, when Justin up oil was founded, this core founding principle

has been no new oil and gas licenses. And last month, the UK's new Labour government stated in the manifesto, we will not issue new licences to explore new fields because they will not take a penny off bills, cannot make us energy secure, and will only accelerate the worsening climate crisis. In addition, we will not grant new coal licenses and will ban fracking for good. Of course, it remains to be seen whether the government will carry out its manifesto promises. But, just up oil, have declared victory here in a general. achieving that demand. Dura, how much do you think we can put Labor's promise of no new oil

and gas licenses down to just stop oil's activism? It's a really interesting question and it's one that's impossible to answer really. Given the majority of the population in the UK wants climate action anyway, I think it was inevitable that the Labour Party was going to do this policy. It's also the right thing to do, right? We need to meet the net zero targets that we'll leave obligated to me, but I do think that just up oil has undeniably played a part in keeping up the pressure for the government to act. Adrian, do you agree with that assessment? Yeah, absolutely. And it is, of course, impossible to prove that Labor has changed its policy because of what we did. And of course, they're going to deny it. And they're going to want to

put distance between themselves and us. And that's quite understandable. But it does point to the the radical flank effect actually being effective. Labour saying, talking about how they're going to, they're not going to invest anymore in North Sea oil and gas. For that to sound moderate is all because of the radical stuff that was going on back in 2022. And again, they're never going to admit to it. But sometimes when I've read Ed Miliband's statements,

it's like he's read at our press release. It's like he's been to our training and he's internalized it and he's speaking it out, like a really, really good spokesperson and for us. But of course, he will never admit to that. I think that it needs to be said that the new government's promise of no new coal licences was met with praise and claims of victory, not just from just of oil, but from bodies that work towards the same goal, including the United Nations. You know, they say countries should aim for a near total phase out of coal production and use. The International

Energy Agency, that's the world's leading energy organisation, has been talking about no new oil, gas or coal development for years. The World Health Organization says the same. World Federation of Public Health Associations, intergovernmental panel and climate change, International Institute for Sustainable Development. All of these huge, well-respected bodies have been joining together four years

to send messages to whichever governments have been in power to say that we need to rapidly transition away from fossil fuels. And I'm not pointing this out to say, oh, well, there you go, you know, just a pause completely correct. We should all support them, you know, unequivocally. But the reason I'm saying this is to highlight that Justop Oil's key anti-climate change messages, there has been a disconnect between those messages and the wider public.

And this, of course, as we've mentioned, likely falls down to the action that Justob Oil takes. Now, Justable describes themselves as a non-violent civil resistance group. Adrian, just tell us what that means and describe some of the types of action that the group have taken. Yeah, so just up I will firmly believe in the importance and the necessity and the effectiveness of civil disobedience. It's understood as the following. So it is deliberately breaking the law concerning a matter of public interest and that it is conducted publicly so that people take full accountability for their actions. And fundamentally, it is non-violent. That's actually protected or recognized by,

international law by Articles 19 and 21 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. And states actually have an obligation to respect and ensure the right to engage in peaceful civil resistance. Now that's not fully understood by the general public and by the media. And I think that's the big disconnect, just people really not understanding that if somebody undertakes to break the law, that they've crossed the line. Whereas an actually to a fact the line that we never cross is from moving from peaceful protest into violent process. That's the line, doing something, you know, spray painting a building, for example, and then standing there or sitting down and waiting to be arrested and face the consequences.

That's a hugely important aspect of what we do. But speaking of how the public react, we've rounded up some voices of public opinion about just stop oil action let's have a listen i can't stand just up oil i think they are disruptive they are incredibly annoying and most of all they're selfish don't glue yourself to the road and stop uh the white van man going about his business don't stop me from getting to work don't stop my gran having to go go hospital go to a GP appointments that's what they're doing they are stopping ambulances they're stopping fire engines just stop oil are okay with people um people's lives being at risk because they want to make a point what

What are they achieving? Seriously, what are they achieving? Well, I've got family to feed and what are they doing? What's your message to have? Get out of way! Charlie! A waste of time, just biggest belief how they can get away with all this. No, start breathing! Because I'm so done with us, nice people, going about our daily business.

I walk around the place and you guys are damaging your cause. The point has been made. They've just got to stop. If they're not careful, someone's going to really lose their temper, and one of them is going to get run over. Adrian, how does hearing those clips make you feel? Uncomfortable, to be honest. Yeah, of course.

The general public in the voices that we just heard, it's totally understandable when they have been disrupted or held up, that they're angry about it. However, you start to hear phrases that are in the media, particularly the right wing press, they're also in the government. And it's interesting to hear examples there of what Michelle Forced, you know, the United Nations Special Rapporteur for Environmental Defenders, he has described it really well as the toxic discourse.

It's often framed as a class war between people who take action being middle class or privileged and ordinary hardworking people. That's wrong. That's false. That's false framing and deliberately cynical framing because the people that I know, everybody in Justup Oil, are ordinary people. We are ordinary, hardworking people. It isn't a class war between the working class and the privileged class.

It is more a class war between everybody or ordinary people and the elite, you know, the billionaire class, the rich fossil fuel industry. That's where the conflict is between. So it's completely shifted the conflict really unhelpfully and you can understand why they've done it to pit ordinary people against ordinary people. And it's been effective. One member of the public in the clips we just played

can be heard saying that Justop Oil is stopping ambulances, they're stopping fire engines. Now this has been a common refrain among criticism of Justop Oil, both in public and in the media. We want to highlight some incidents. For example, in October 22, just up oil activists took to the Dartford crossing in Kent,

forcing police to close it. Diversions were put in place, which led motorists onto the M20. A car was stranded on the hard shoulder of the M20 and a group of people were waiting for assistance. During the diversion, another car collided into the group. Two women very sadly died, and a man also suffered a broken leg and broken vertebrae.

The son, the daily men, and the Daily Express all reported that Justup Oil protesters slowed down the ambulance from arriving at the scene of the accident, which was over 10 miles away from the Dartford Crossing protest. Additionally, the Daily Express splashed this exclusive headline. EcoMob has blood on their hands, in quotes, after mum died waiting 40 minutes, also in quotes, for ambulance. Now, where did the source for this 40-minute delay come from? Well, it came from a quote from the daughter-in-law

of the man who suffered a broken leg and vertebrae who was not present at the accident. And an investigation by Open Democracy basically largely falsified the reports across mainstream media. So they spoke to the South East Coast ambulance service who said its crew wasn't delayed,

arrived at the crash well before the 40 minutes reported by the paper and also pointed out that an air ambulance attended the scene, a detail the paper's did not mention in their reports. Diora, would you go as far as to describe this as misinformation in the mainstream media? I mean, yeah.

I don't really know if there is another word for it. And we've seen the narrative around ambulances around for a while, actually. And I remember in 2020, Tom Harwood of G.B. News, he recorded a video when I think it was an Extinction Rebellion protest, and there was an ambulance, and he was like, you see, these protesters have blocked this ambulance from going, through and actually the blockage was the police extinction rebellion always maintained that they have a policy to let emergency services through but you know the evidence for that was this

video of this young man complaining and I remember actually falling for it this is why it's so dangerous because it completely demonises the protesters and it makes them into these fanatics which is a word that has been used over and over again and I just want to kind of build on what Adrian has said in terms of the voice notes or the clips of the people we've just heard, I'm hearing the headlines that I've been reading for the last couple of years. And, you know, I've been monitoring a lot of the climate misinformation trickling in from think tanks that are funded by lobbies, essentially. These phrases that the public has picked up have come from the top. And I think it's really, really important to make that clear. It is a narrative we've

seen ambulances and emergency vehicles being stopped. And the fact is, you know, those vehicles, They do need to get around. They do need to do their job. It is often a matter of life or death. So, Adrian, how does Justop Oil navigate that? There is a blue light policy, which means that when there is an emergency vehicle, we move out of the way. Sorry, I'm going to hold my hands up and say, I did not know that. That is brand new information to me and contradicts everything I've seen in the headlines.

Yeah. So, for example, if we're blocking a road and people are literally gluing themselves to the tarmac, We'll make sure that one lane is unglued so that it's, you know, people can move out of the way very, very quickly. I've been on a march myself and a driver came to the front and said, look, my wife's going into Labor. Can you guys please move out of the way? So immediately we all got out of the way. The driver got through and then we continued the march. Obviously, you know, we have a policy and we have ways of realizing it.

That doesn't mean that there will never be an incident. and that's really, really difficult to carry the thought that when we are undertaking disruptive protests of this nature, that could lead to harm. We're not saying that it will never, ever happen. And in a sense, it's remarkable that it hasn't. I suppose this partly depends on how we define harm, because while there were many stories that perhaps got exaggerated

or misrepresented about the effect of just stop oil protests, It's important to note that the group has, of course, disrupted and in some people's opinions harmed others. One story that dominated headlines at the time was of Tony Bambory, a man from Buckinghamshire, who missed his father's funeral due to disruption on the M25. Justop Oil protesters were asked about this case many times on broadcast media. And when I say asked, I rather me berated and interrupted spokespeople for the group. weren't often given the space to provide their response, but it is the kind of case to which response might be due. So, Adrian, without us interrupting,

how do you respond to cases like those of Tony Bamboree, and then we'll let listeners decide for themselves how they feel? I would respond by saying it is absolutely horrible that that happened. If I could speak directly to Tony, I would say, I am so sorry that you missed your. father's funeral. That is horrible. That's how I respond to that. Thank you. We're talking about this action that Justop Oil takes this disruptive action. And a narrative, we often hear from the public and the media is, well, they should find some other way to get

their message across. Someone that represents that opinion is Rupert Reed, the founder of the Climate Majority Project. Rupert was formerly part of Extinction Rebellion, but he, along with some of the members of the public we've heard from now believes Justop Oil's direct action may not always be effective. I want to play this interview with him on LBC and then we can address his point. Let's take a listen. Thank you very much indeed for coming on the program, Rupert. What do you make of this action? Hi Tom. I'm going to be with you again. Well, what we think in the Client Majority project is that more important now than just trying to gain public. for the cause is actually getting people taking real action on the cause,

which is something we all have a deep responsibility for. It isn't enough just to criticise others for what they are doing. But our judgment is that actually at this point, it's probably more effective for people to actually get together and start to make changes on the ground in their communities, in their workplaces, in their professions, et cetera, rather than continuing to try to draw attention. So you are saying that this went too far.

in effect? So what I'm saying is that if a form of protest is not actually effective at getting more people onto one side, and if a form of protest is perhaps not strictly necessary in the sense that the alarm has now pretty much been well and truly raised around climate, everyone appreciates not necessarily just how out the problem is, but that we do have a serious problem on our hands. Under those circumstances, our judgment is that the most effective, thing to do is, well, what's effective, i.e. actually starting to change things, actually influencing the political situation, for example, by way of people leading where they live, where they work,

where they pray, in making the kind of changes together that we all so badly need to make. Adrian, what's your thoughts on what Rupert suggests that it would be more effective to mobilize local communities than rather than just drawing attention to the issue? I think we need to do all of it. We need to do absolutely all of it. And we do need to continue to draw attention to the issue because, as Dr. Reid said, people aren't fully aware. The best way I can sort of explain it. So you know this book, The Martian. Andy Weir the Martian. So it opens. The person's stuck on Mars and he does a quick assessment of the situation. He knows he's going to starve to death. He's a scientist. He's going to run out of food in 40 days or whatever. He knows there's no

soil there. He knows that people, it's going to take two years for people to come and get him. And he realizes how bad the situation is. And he's honest about it. And he gets on it. And he works to save his life. And so what Rupert Reed is talking about, about this kind of like people mobilizing at some community level. Well, yeah, that needs to happen. But it's not going to be effective until people really get that they are stuck on a planet and they're going to literally starve to death, if not themselves, but their children or their grandchildren, are going to be fighting wars over food and water because we are going to run out of food. And people are not being told that. That's why we continue to take action. It's all necessary, both working at community

level, working at the political level, and, you know, deliberately breaking the law and facing the consequences and going to prison for years because we need to engage with us. the level of seriousness that it actually is. This brings us finally onto a story that has been making waves in the media. Five Just Stop Oil protesters, including one of its co-founders, were jailed last month for several years for conspiring to organise protests that blocked the M-25 motorway. Roger Hallam, who is the co-founder of Justop Oil and Extinction Rebellion,

was sentenced to five years imprisonment. Daniel Shaw, Louise Lancaster, Lucia Whitaker Diabru, and Cressida Gethyn were handed four years imprisonment each. These are thought to be the longest sentences ever given for peaceful protest in the UK. Now, it can be said we have a broken justice system and in a broken justice system it may not be helpful to make comparisons of sentences given to others. However, I think in this case it is quite striking when you hear that the longest sentence handed to one of the rioters

in the recent far-right violence was a three-year sentence. for violent disorder. Another writer got sentenced to two years and five months in prison for violent disorder and setting fire to a police vehicle. These long sentences for the Just Stop Oil activists are even more striking when you learn that they weren't sentenced for taking part in the action on the M25 itself, but rather for being on a Zoom call

in which they discussed and coordinated the action that would block the M25. And the first thing I would say is that I think that so few, people know that these activists were jailed for being on a Zoom call. I think there's a public perception from the reporting of this story that these were the people on the M25 Gantries themselves. But first of all, Adrian, what was your reaction when you heard of the sentences? I'm so shocked, but unsurprised. So unsurprised because that's exactly what the fossil fuel industry has been lobbying to produce this kind of level of oppression, this level of.

of clamping down on dissent and dissenting voices against their industry. It's not surprising, but the level of sentencing is shocking and disturbing. Those are the lobbies, and now we want to talk about the media. Diora, why do you think the sentences were so harsh? And I suppose I'm asking, do you think the media reporting of Justop Oil has contributed to those sentences? It's clear that the five people who'd been sentenced, are being made an example of right and that is really twisted in its own way and as you rightly

mentioned they weren't even on the m 25 this is all over a zoom call that a journalist from the sun had infiltrated and pretended to be a protester and in the end just took all that information and sent it straight to the police so this is a direct link here of the right wing media someone from the right wing media being part of all of this right something that I really want to focus on is actually what the judge said when sentencing the individuals. And so he said, I acknowledge that at least some of the concerns are shared by many, talking of climate change. But the plain fact is that each of you has some time ago crossed the line from concerned campaigner to fanatic. And that word fanatic, I had read so many times in the right wing media. And actually,

when I was doing research recently on this, I was reading an article from the sun where they refer to climate protesters as fanatics. So there is that direct link there. Yeah, I'd like to say about the actual trial, Judge Hare at Southwark Crown Court, he actually would not allow expert witness from Professor Bill Maguire because he considered Bill McGuire to be an activist. And so the jury were denied the opportunity to hear from a real expert. expert about the seriousness of the situation. And so this kind of branding of activists,

fanatics, you know, the conflation of those two, those ideas is really, really strong and really, really dangerous, particularly at this time in human history. And given the recent sentences, is it not really scary? Or does it deter you is what I want to know? Do the recent sentences deter you from taking further action? It's really complex, isn't it? Because on the one hand, it's massively encouraging that the state is overreaching and over responding in this way. It means that we're actually being effective. And then personally, the idea of going to prison for years is horrible. I've had several conversations with my wife, my children, and it may well come to that. It's not terrifying, but it's really annoying that at this point

that we're looking at doing this and having to make plans and put things in place for that. So yeah, it is scary but it's not deterring. Adrian, I think we're going to wrap up by probably asking you a question that you have never been asked before

in a media interview about Justop Oil and putting that claim out there. And that question is what is it like to put yourself in harm's way for a wider cause? It's terrifying and it's hugely moving and it's hugely empowering as well. So last week to be able to stand there in Glasgow Airport with my sign, you know, my little protest saying oil kills, to be able to engage with the security and then eventually the police

and say, you know, this is part of an international uprising taking place at airports all around the world to ask for the end of fossil fuels was hugely empowering and then to be arrested and then to sort of to go into the you know the police cell and the door to clang behind me it's a huge sense of peace it really is quite you know without sort of overdoing it is it's a spiritual experience yeah it's really really peaceful um so yeah that's how it feels Before we lose you, we just want to wrap up by asking, Diora, you first, do you have anything to plug to listeners? Tell us where they can follow you.

You can follow me on social media. I'm at the Diora on both X, formerly known as Twitter and Instagram. You can also follow the lead, which is where I work, and we do lots of reporting on social justice issues in the UK. And over to you, Adrian. Yeah, by continuing to promote the use of fossil fuels, governments globally are waging war on humanity. We have to step up.

We have to respond to this. There is a plan. People can find out more by going to justupor.org. After the break, we'll be speaking to Emma Weber, mother of the stabbing victim, Barnaby Weber, about the ethics of crime reporting, true crime, and the recent riots after the Southpots stabbing. Welcome back to Media Storm.

Our final section aims to leave listeners with something to take home and think about and talk to others about. Please write in if you have any interesting viewpoints. Now, you probably saw a huge story this week surrounding the Nottingham attacks last June when 32-year-old Valdo Calicane stabbed and killed 19-year-old students, Grace O'Malley Kumar and Barnaby Weber, and 65-year-old school. caretaker Ian Coates. This week, a report by the Care Quality Commission revealed a series of errors and misjudgments

in Callicane's mental health care that led to him being discharged despite being flagged as at risk of killing someone. This was the focus of a BBC panorama aired on Monday in which Callicane's family spoke publicly for the first time. But the documentary sparked criticism from the victims' families who said that they were traumatised when notified about the documentary two weeks before,

given almost no detail of its contents and no opportunity to contribute. It follows their unsuccessful attempt to appeal the court's decision to charge Callagane with manslaughter rather than murder due to his paranoid schizophrenia. It's a huge question for Media Storm that comes up in a lot of topics,

how to report on violence when victims don't get right of reply. So I've reached out to Emma Webber. the mother of victim Barnaby Weber to talk about the tricky ethics of true crime. If listeners can't figure out from the background sound, I'm meeting you in Paddington, as you have taken a trip to London to appear this morning on GB News, Good Morning Britain, Sky News.

First podcast, by the way, for me, so it's interesting. Oh my goodness, it's grueling, but it's 14 months in. It's something that I'm sadly quite used to having to do. The reason that we're here today is because of a BBC panorama that was released this week. That explores potential system failings by mental health services that led to these awful events. Why are you unhappy with it? I'm certainly not unhappy that the failings are being uncovered. I have absolutely nothing against broadcast journalism, investigative journalism, documentaries.

I watch them all the time. The problem that we have with Panorama is how they went about it. We were never consulted or informed well enough in advance that this was going to happen. We were told, goodness, on the 26th of July, that this documentary was happening and including Calicane's family. And I think coming from the trauma and the devastation that we three families are in to hear that presented as a fait accompli was quite alarming. We actually have a huge issue with the fact that Calicane,

was able to claim diminished responsibility and accept a manslaughter charge. So it felt very unbalanced to us. And of course, Callagame family can say what they want. I just feel like it's not half a story, but there's an awful lot more that they didn't ask. They should have asked. I mean, this is one of the huge issues with documentaries and dramas of this kind is that victims don't get right of reply.

Would you have liked to have been involved in the documentary then would you have liked to have been given that chance? I can't see how it can be deemed a balanced piece of work without having our families involved. We are the people that have uncovered these failings in the first place. We are the people that have driven us forward and raised the awareness to such a height that there will now be a public inquiry.

I'm not sure if we would have taken part in it, but I think the decency of letting us know this was going to happen so that we could prepare and giving us an overview of content, not necessarily showing us the program, because what Panorama have managed to do now is utterly retortize the families. We've had weeks of fear and trepidation about who is going to say what. They wouldn't tell us. This raises for me, I suppose, like big questions around victims' consent, victim's families consent, questions of who has ownership of a story in this exploding field of

true crime, true crime documentaries and dramas. I often watch them and I feel viscerally aware that the families of the victims are not involved and I feel sometimes uncomfortable with the lack of privacy afforded to victims. Yeah, I mean I could answer that first and foremost as, you know, Barney's mum and someone killed my child. It doesn't get any worse than that. but I can also answer it as somebody who is personally and has previously been really interested in documentary. You know, ironically, Barney and I used to say, well, have you seen that on that serial killer?

And what happens is it sensationalises and it depersonalises is you focus on the perpetrator, you don't focus on the victim, or actually, as importantly, the victim's families and the impact that that has. And, you know, some of these murderers, they get off on being, infamous, don't they? So it's playing to exactly what they want. My point is, who are we

representing? Who are we truly talking about? Most of the time it's a perpetrator. And that goes into victim care in the criminal justice system as well. It's very, very much weighted in the perpetrator's favour and victims' families and victims are an afterthought and an appendix at best. Do you have any advice for journalists, reflect on your experiences, affecting on what's happened with Panorama. Is there anything that you want journalists to keep in mind? The day we found out about the attack, we went home. I would say within two hours, we had three or four knocks on the door.

Journalists come to their front door, cards being put through. You know, we can see through them my deepest consolances. We are always on your side fighting your battles, you know, the early ones. They don't even know you. I would say, with journalists, be mindful and always think, okay, if that was my son, my daughter, my dad, my granddad, whatever, what would I want people to be asking me? Now, when Barney was killed, you spoke out and you asked members of the public not to respond with hate against people of any race or religion. Just recently in the news we've seen riots break out after a stabbing in Southport and I couldn't help but wonder if that brought things back or if you had a response to that.

Do you know, I'm really glad you asked me that question because no one else has. I've been very much focused on what's happened with the reports, with the failures. Actually, that's such an important point because what happened in Southport was a massive trigger. It caused quite a few days from myself, my husband, my son, Charlie. and I know the other families of real sadness and horror because we know sadly what those individuals are going through. And I did. I stand by, and I always will, what I said in Nottingham, hold no hate.

We don't have the right to have hate just because somebody chooses to look a certain way, behave a certain way, believe a certain thing. So what I totally condemn what happened with the riots and the outcry afterwards because there will always be people who are just looking to engage. It's a physical, violent equivalent of trolling, isn't it? We will fight and we'll support any and every family that's in this hideous situation, and unfortunately there will be more to come in the future.

And can listeners do anything to support the Barnaby Weber Foundation? Oh my God, yeah. I don't want to be self-promoting, but the Barnley-Weber Foundation is, we set it up a year ago because we were intimidated with people wanting to give us money and send us checks. and we didn't know what to do with it.

So we set the foundation up to support any young people who have any life challenges. That can be physical, financial, social, sexual, the other part of it is to support grassroots cricket. It's an expensive sport, speaking first hand, Barney's obsessed with cricket. Bats are expensive, balls are expensive, kits expensive, but it's really wonderful to get boys and girls out

in the grassroots club. So we'll be supplying equipment to that as well. So if you want to do a marathon, you want to climb Kalimajaro, or if you just want to donate a pound or five pounds, that would be good. Like we said for Barney's birthdays, which was 11th of January, can you just donate to his foundation, the beer you would have bought him? We got a lot of money. He'd have been very, very drunk, which he was very good at doing as well.

So, yeah, but, you know, there's no expectation. Times are tough. That was me speaking to Emma Weber, mother of Barnaby Weber, at Paddington in London. It's such a sticky topic. and I wonder, has there been a response from the BBC? A BBC spokesperson said, and I'll read it in full. We have the deepest sympathy for the families and the panorama team has been extremely mindful

of the sensitivities in handling this program. They have been in contact with the bereaved families to tell them about the program and to provide an outline of its editorial focus. This investigation, which is very much in the public interest, examines the decline in the mental health of Valdo Calicane and asks whether there was, were systemic failings and missed opportunities in his interactions with mental health services

in the three years leading up to the terrible events in Nottingham last year. The documentary has been produced in accordance with the BBC's editorial guidelines. Thank you for listening. Follow MediaStorm wherever you get your podcast so that you can get access to new episodes as soon as they drop. If you like what you hear, share this episode with someone and leave us a five-star rating and a review. really helps more people discover the podcast and our aim is to have as many people as possible hear these voices. MediaStorm is an award-winning podcast produced by Helena Wadia and Matilda Mallinson with music from Samphire. Our assistant producer is Katie Grant. You can follow us on social

media at Matilda Mel at Helena Wadia and follow the show via at MediaStormpod. You can also support our work on Patreon by following the link in the show notes. Listen and hit follow on Spotify. Thank you.