Media Storm - S4E4 South Africa elections: worldviews in 'the West' vs 'the rest'

Episode Date: May 30, 2024

As South Africans head to the polls, Media Storm is seizing the opportunity to break out of the Western worldview. Last season, former UN Security Council President Kishore Mahbubani criticised the "arrogance" of the UK media and its failure to expose people in 'the West' to how 88% of the world's population see things differently to them. South Africa gives us some clues as to why. Their coverage of the raging conflict in Gaza paints a far more black-and-white narrative of events, condemning Israeli "apartheid" and "genocide" against Palestinians. Meanwhile, coverage of Russia's invasion of Ukraine muddies the stark solidarity expressed in Western media. We speak to South African Political Analyst Mpumelelo Mkhabela, comedian Tats Nkonzo, and South African former politician Andrew Feinstein about Israel-Palestine and Russia-Ukraine. And we hear from South Africans spanning classes, genders, races, ages to hear how their voting today – collectively, their testimonies tell us as much about our own democracies as theirs. Hosts: Helena Wadia (@helenawadia) and Mathilda Mallinson (@mathildamall) Music: @soundofsamfire Support us on Patreon! patreon.com/MediaStormPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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is on Disney Plus So you can feel a little fear What's this? Or a little more fear I see dead people Or a lot of fear Mom Or you can get completely terrified

Who's dead that Choose wisely with Halloween on Disney Plus. Hello, Media Stormers. As we record this episode, South Africans are voting to elect a new government in the seventh general election since the end of the apartheid in 1994.

India is also on the brink of wrapping up its three-month-long election, the largest ever in history and a complete logistical fuckfare. And so this week, we have decided to brave the year of elections media storm. But of course, we'll be tackling it from a different angle to your other media outlets.

We'll be looking at it through a non-eurocentric lens, or rather a counter-eurocentric lens, to ask how these other democracies throw our own into question, and especially that vital ingredient of any democracy, it's press. First, we should explain why 2024 has been dubbed the year of election, as two billion people across 50 countries are expected to head to the polls. including these two little people sitting here. This has never happened in a single year before. Okay, so who has voted already?

Who can you remember? I've got Pakistan, Bangladesh, Russia, Indonesia, Finland, Panama. Did I make that up? Taiwan, Taiwan voted. You know a lot about other countries voting. Iran. Iran, yes. And who's still to come? Honestly, more than we could name.

In the next fortnight, we have got the east. But that's not us anymore. Belgium. We've mentioned India and South Africa. There's also Mexico, Venezuela, Algeria, Ghana, Botswana, the UK. And of course, the USA. It does feel kind of weird, though, hearing you list some of these countries in the year of democracy, Russia, Iran. I mean, it's not really what jumps to mind when I think of the word democracy.

Well, I nearly said North Korea because they have elections. Oh my God. I mean, if they're holding parliamentary elections, I suppose that technically categorizes them as some form of democracy. Yes, and you raise a good point there, because we could be talking about full democracies, flawed democracies, or hybrid democracies with a little sprinkle of authoritarianism, or maybe just outright authoritarian regimes with a little sprinkling of democracy that, to be honest, is probably more offensive than no democracy at all. But all of these have been weighed and measured in the democracy index, which is kind of like a democracy charts made by the Economist Group each year. Okay, the Democracy Index. What is that? How does it work? So a country is a full democracy if it scores 8 to 10 on the index,

which takes into account electoral process, civil liberties, pluralism, functioning government and a few other factors. Lucky for us, the UK has been classed a full democracy. but it falls at the lower end of that bracket, below Taiwan, Uruguay, Japan and Costa Rica. Helena, tell me where you reckon the USA sits in relation to this. Okay, I would guess that it's probably similar to the UK, like full democracy, but towards the lower end of the bracket? The USA, you might be surprised to learn, like I was, is not a full democracy, but a flawed democracy. Oh, well, that's true. Yeah.

And even in that group, it ranks below Malta, Chile, the Czech Republic, Estonia. It was actually demoted in 2017 due to dwindling trust in government and politicians. Let me just check my records. I wonder who was elected in 27. Oh, yeah, Donald Trump. Yeah. Well, if you, like me and Helena, were surprised that the USA didn't rank as a full democracy, well, that might reflect something about the sources we've been reading.

British newspapers are incredibly condescending. This is a clip from our interview last series with Kishore Mabubani, former president of the UN Security Council. When they write about the 88% of the world's population who live outside the West and make absolutely no effort to understand why do they view the world so differently from the West. It's such an insular, self-absorbed, self-referential discourse that takes place. and I think that's very, very dangerous in a small interdependent world, you know. Now, we've been waiting for an opportunity to dive more into this to explore the diverging worldviews between the minority West and the majority rest.

Exactly. And to ask what role Western media bias has played in feeding that gap and shielding those of us in the West from the shifting global order happening around us. So, as we mentioned right at the beginning of this episode, this week, the story we'll be looking at is South Africa's election, another flawed democracy, by the way, not far behind the US, and the worldviews defining the nation today. South African worldviews are a perfect lens to critically assess the Wests, because South Africa has been ruffling feathers on the world stage.

On two of the biggest geopolitical conflicts of our time, Russia, Ukraine, and Israel, Hamas, they have challenged the narratives being peddled by Western superpowers. And the party behind those challenges, the African National Congress, or ANC, is at real risk of losing its majority for the first time in 20 years since Nelson Mandela led it to power. So the world is watching. And today, so are we.

We will be comparing how South African media covers these major geopolitical events with our own to test whether our mainstream media is guilty of a Western bias. We will never denounce Russia because Russia was with us during difficult times. We will not be drawn into a contest between global power. One party dominance is a thing of the past. We do pledge solidarity with the Palestinians. Welcome to MediaStorm, the news podcast that starts with the people who are normally Ask Last.

I'm Matilda Malinson and I'm Helen Awodia. This week's Media Storm, South Africa Elections, bridging world views between the West and the rest. Welcome to Media Storm. Our first guest is a political analyst, journalist, journalist, columnist, and doctor of foreign policy. He has perfect insights for Media Storm listeners as the former editor of iconic South African papers, such as Daily Dispatch and the Sowetan. He's also former chairman of the South African National Editions.

Editor's Forum, thank you for tuning in from South Africa to the Strand, Dr. Mpamelelo Macabella. Thank you. Hello. Nice to be here. Our second guest is a South African stand-up comedian, singer and TV presenter who warned us we were dangerously trusting to invite him on. dubbed a comic force to be reckoned with by Trevor Noah. He's known for goofy political satire that confronts racial and cultural tensions in post-apartheid South Africa. Thank you so much for joining us. Tats and Kondo. How's it going? Hey, thank you guys so much for having me so recklessly.

The first topic we want to look at is how South Africans perceive the situation in Gaza since Netanyahu's government in Israel responded to Hamas's October 7th attacks with an all-out war. Because it's a little different to how Brits and our geopolitical allies see it. And yes, we're generalising both of our nation. here. There's obviously a whole range of opinions in each, but the median views still stand some way apart. South Africa's fierce moral and legal challenges to Israel's actions in Gaza have put it at odds with Western superpowers and Western news media, which paint the conflict as much more two-sided. And it's not just South Africa. The situation in Gaza is one of

the starkest examples of diverging perspectives between the global north and the global south, which makes it really essential for us to talk about. This is South African President Cyril Ramaphosa speaking at a protest for Palestine in his country. As people and an organization that has struggled against an oppressive system of apartheid, we do pledge solidarity with the Palestinians. Now, compare that to our own government, some of whom treat free Palestine marches, terrorists and criticise the police for not shutting them down.

Tens of thousands of people take to the streets, chanting for the erasure of Israel from the map. To my mind, there's only one way to describe those marches. They are hate marches. If there is a need to change the law, just as we did in relation to just stop oil protests last year, I will not hesitate to act. This is reflected in the media. South African journalists use words we wouldn't be allowed to in pieces of factual. reporting, such as genocide or apartheid. Why is what is happening in Israel and Palestine so much more black and white for many South Africans? And Pamela, maybe you could take us away. Well, Matilda, there are so many reasons for that. The first one is the history of South Africa, which is a

history of colonialism and apartheid human rights abuses, which ended in 1994. So we had this transition from apartheid to democracy with a new constitution that enshrined the rights of all South Africans, the right to human dignity. So all individuals are entitled to the right to human dignity and to be treated equally. So South Africa has got a very high sensitivity towards racial and ethnic segregation, apartheid, spatial development, and all of those things. So South Africans are fully aware of their rights. Now, which brings me to a third point, one of the revolutionary mechanism that you find in the constitution is the right of people to seek recourse in the courts. So if the government does anything which people disagree with or they think the government is

abusing its power, people, ordinary people, NGOs or anyone can go to the courts and seek recourse. There's been many judgments against the South African government in favor of human rights where the government was seen to be abusing human rights. So South Africans are now cultured around the use of institutions like courts to secure their rights, which now brings me to another point. The fourth point is that the struggle against apartheid was in itself non-racia, in a sense that there were white people that joined on the side of black people, and they too also suffered the harshness of apartheid. And there's an interesting group of people who were part of that struggle, and those were Jewish people. One of the things that happened, which has not

been reported widely as it should have been, is that soon after the war in Gaza broke out, you had a group of very progressive members of the Jewish community in South Africa who wrote a statement they don't agree with what was happening in Israel. So South Africa has got a very complex history, but broadly speaking, we do see injustice when it happens in black and white. But in so doing, it doesn't mean that South Africa is like a holier than thou country. without its problems. Yeah, and actually, I'm glad you mentioned that white Jewish South African population that, you know, experienced and fought against apartheid before.

We will actually later in the episode be hearing from one such person. That was a really comprehensive overview. Thank you. Tats, I wonder if you want to weigh in and help us, like, understand emotively why this is something that is very close to a lot of people's hearts in South Africa. So in South Africa, you know, Nelson Mandela was unapologetically for Pellas. Palestine, you know, famously quoted, we all know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of Palestine. And, you know, Nelson Mandela, just to illustrate the power of who the man was, for 27 years, people who were fighting for him didn't even know what this man looked like or sounded like, this man that people who weren't on Robin Island were fighting for.

And so when he came out, it was almost like a Messiah had arrived. And one of the first things he said was, hey, these guys are with us. And those words are words that carry on in terms of bringing South Africans to the knowledge of the plight of the Palestinians, but also telling them which side, which side is the side we are for and why. The thing that will make that affinity towards Palestine live long in South Africa is because of the man who told us to give a fuck about it. And just for listeners who aren't aware, Robin Island is the, prison that Mandela and other anti-apartheid revolutionaries were held on during the apartheid government. Thank you both so much for those answers. It's really interesting. And now that

we have, you know, a bit of context, we do want to talk a little more about media coverage specifically. One story that was covered much more intensively across Africa than it was in Europe and the US was the International Court of Justice or ICJ trial that South Africa launched against Israel. For those who don't remember or maybe didn't see this in the UK press, the ICJ is the top court of the United Nations. South Africa brought the case to the court that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza. And there is a really clear example here of differences in how South Africa and the UK and other Western outlets cover this situation. Because in Western media, it is always traced back to October 7th, the date of

the deadly Hamas attack against Israeli civilians. But South Africa's genocide case against Israel does not just include the war since October 7th. It includes what South Africa describes as Israel's 75-year apartheid, 56-year occupation, and 16-year blockade of the strip. That is a very different narrative to what we see.

Definitely. And in light of all of this, how do South Africans view our news coverage in the UK and our political leaders' response regarding Israel and Palestine. I think one of the shocking things about the coverage of the ICJ case was when South Africans learned that actually in the UK and in the US, there was some kind of a gag on the live coverage of South Africa's case. People were very shocked by that because if you look at South Africa's democratic system, including the way the media operates in South Africa, A lot of the rights and all of those things are based on Western norms and values of openness, transparency, accountability, questioning, debate.

So when the people from whom we take after the UK and the US, which are the leading lights on liberal democratic rights, when they actually suppress certain views, many people in South Africa are kind of like taken aback. When you say this gag that you saw in Western media, is that just because they didn't report on it enough? Or because there was some sort of gag order being placed on the media to not cover it? It appears to us it was more like self-censorship. For a case of international magnitude like this, there was no reason why none of the top broadcasters in the UK would not take that case live. And actually the issue you raised with this lack of coverage, it was noticed by some people and some journalists in the West.

I mean, Helena, I think you have some examples. Yeah, Canadian journalist David. Dame Mastrachi shed screenshots of his country's papers front pages asking why there was minimal to zero coverage of South Africa's case against Israel. And then the communications chief for the Euromed Human Rights Monitor, Mohamed Shahedah, tweeted or exed as it's known now, I cannot find the International Court of Justice hearing on CNN, BBC, Channel 4, Fox News, MSNBC, CNBC, CBS, NBC, 124, DW, Sky News, or any mainstream US-EU-T-V-T-V-T-V-Channel. What explains this unprecedented campaign of disinformation by omission?

So, yeah, I mean, it was noticed here, but, I mean, it's noticed only by people who are very tuned in, like the bulk of the population, only know what the media tells them, and that's the issue. I wonder if we just sort of found it a bit awkward because, I mean, be honest. When South Africa filed the ICJ case against Israel, were you just putting Israel on trial? Or is there a sense that you're also testing the West's claim to moral superiority too? In this particular case, we are going against Israel, but absolutely we are also putting the world on trial. I don't think it's ever we're just doing one thing for one thing only, because in politics, it's literally agenda by agenda, which one first, which one second. It's never just the one thing.

I think what has happened here with the Israeli-Palestan question, especially the Gaza issue, they sort of kind of muddled the state of Israel with the people or the dominant racial group that populates Israel. And then they say, yeah, well, if you support the Palestinian, it means you are against Jewish people. You are anti-Semite and all of that. South Africa is not used to that type of talk because the Jewish people were at the heart of the struggle against apartheid in South Africa, first of all. And secondly, they also advocated for human dignity and human rights. Thirdly, they were with Mandela in the struggle. The idea that you would associate the system with human beings was one of the hotly debated issue in the struggle against apartheid. And I think eventually what made South Africa find a settlement was that the white population accepted the bona fides of the ANC and the liberation movement when they said, listen, we're not fighting you as individuals who will coexist.

Let's just get rid of the system that is existing at the time, which was apartheid. So even now, I think South Africa is saying to Israel, we just have a problem with your system, with oppressing the other group. We have no issues with you as individual human beings. You know, the accusation of being anti-Semite is being used as a shield so that you can protect the system. It's the system that's being fought, not the people. So I think that's one of the messages that has come out in South Africa's case. there's lots of things to be said about the way that we got into our democracy many call it a bloodless revolution which it wasn't but we went from an apartheid system to a democracy where we all live together relatively with little bloodshed and here we are standing as a country of course that if there was anyone who was going to put a stop to this horror movie that we are seeing it's going to be us in terms of the international courts i don't see anybody having as much effect as the Mandela nation itself.

If you speak the language, a man understands you get to his head. But if you speak his language, you get to his heart. That's the kind of way Mandela did politics. We want to share with you another perspective here that really highlights how complex layers of history, identity, and morality can be in shaping our worldviews.

Andrew Feinstein is a South African ex-politician, living in the UK. As a white Jewish teenager, he joined the anti-apartheid fight and was elected to the new government in 1994 as a member of the ruling ANC party before resigning in protest of alleged party corruption.

So how do your personal experiences of apartheid in South Africa inform your position on the situation in Gaza today? Well, I would say completely and utterly. For two reasons, my late last year, mother was a Holocaust survivor. She was Austrian. She survived because she was hidden in a coal cellar for three and a half years. But she lost dozens of her family, primarily at Auschwitz. And that informed, I suppose, my upbringing in South Africa, because when she came to South Africa

with my dad who was South African, she had the sense that, you know, never again meant never again for all humanity. But she saw the vast majority of South Africans, people of color, being treated much like the Jews of Europe were treated. And that's why I got involved in the anti-aparte struggle. And I suppose when I then look at the situation in Gaza, it's both from that perspective as an anti-racist, first and foremost. It's from the perspective of somebody who has seen a situation of settler colonialism, which is what South Africa was and what many people argue the Israel-Palestine situation is today. But then a more fundamental level, there is a long history between Israel and South Africa. You know, while we were an apartheid state in South Africa,

Israel was probably our closest ally, providing weapons to the apartheid state, providing military training, and Israel and South Africa helped each other become nuclear powers. And then, of course, my former boss Nelson Mandela and a friend and political mentor, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, both described Israel not only as an apartheid state, but in fact where the system of apartheid is perhaps applied even more brutally and on even worse terms than it was in apartheid South Africa. All of these levels, I come to the situation in Gaza, steeped in both my family history and having lived through apartheid in South Africa. But, you know, weirdly, that also gives me a sense of hope

in what is an incredibly dark time, because in South Africa, and this is why it's so important that South Africa brought the case to the ICJ, we have overcome a system of racial apartheid. We have overcome a system of brutality. And I suppose that still gives me hope that the situation in Palestine can be resolved. And sometimes when you feel you're at your lowest, when you see the human suffering on the scale that we've seen in Gaza, which is perhaps the most appalling thing I've seen in my lifetime, you still have the sense that it's at these low moments that sometimes the hope arises because in my own situation, I left South Africa and in 1986 at a time of extreme repression, and if someone had told me that four years later,

South Africa would be free, not perfect, but free. I would have used my first training as a clinical psychologist and offered them a straitjacket because there was no indication that that was the case. The apartheid state felt incredibly powerful and highly militarized, supported by the West, albeit clandestinely, unlike the case with Israel now. But, you know, four years later, our political prisoners were free. The transition process started, and a further four years after that, Nelson Mandela was installed as our first ever Democratic president. So it also helps me maintain a slight glimmer of hope, even at this dark time.

I do wonder whether you've ever experienced a conflict of affinities, I suppose, given that many survivors of the Holocaust found sanctuary in Israel and given that there has been such a rise of anti-Semitism going hand in hand with what's been happening. Oh, absolutely. I mean, of course it's difficult. I mean, a cousin of my mother's, when she was liberated, she assumed her father had been killed

and she made her way after the war to what was then Palestine and discovered that her father hadn't. perished and that he in fact had made his way to Palestine as well. The holocaust has been one of the central features of my life. But I came to understand that the sanctuary of Israel, the safe haven of Israel, wasn't as many Jews claimed, a land with no people for a people with no land, that in fact there were many, many people there. And that unfortunately, the state of Israel was built on the land of the Palestinian people in what they describe as the Nakhba, the tragedy. You know, the Palestinian people were not responsible for the Holocaust.

How ideal those disparate elements of my history is through those Holocaust survivors who endured and survived and who say, because of what we've seen, because of what we've experienced, we have a responsibility to call out whenever we see a mother screaming when her house is demolished, when her children are taken away from her, when members of her family are murdered, that we should be at the forefront of calling this out, and it doesn't matter who perpetrates it. You know, the fact that such horrific things

have been done to Jews for thousands of years doesn't give us as Jews the right to commit horrific things against the Palestinian people whose land we've taken. Yes, it's sometimes a difficult position to take, but for me, given my own personal life experience, it would be far more difficult to take any other position. The second issue that we want to look at today is the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which has now entered its third year.

This has been a high-profile part of both UK and South African news since it broke, but with a very different nature. While UK news media has expressed clear solidarity with Ukraine from the offset, referring to Russia as an invading force and the war as an illegal invasion, South African media has used more neutral language in keeping with the official government position of being actively non-aligned in the conflict. And once again, South Africa's not alone.

As soon as you step away from the Western mainstream media, our unshakable narrative of this war starts to look a little wobbly, particularly in the global south. It's important to mention here that the South African government's apparent coziness with Putin has been a major cause for controversy among the population too. But it's definitely not as black and white as it's depicted in our media. And in the post-colonial era, South Africa and a lot of other countries, particularly in the global south, other former colonies, have quite a complicated task when it comes to deciding how to align themselves globally.

And Pomelello, from a geopolitical perspective, can you use? help us to understand that relationship between South Africa and Russia? Mandela used to say, well, when they got into the struggle against apartheid and the first call they made was to Western capitals to support the struggle and they were frowned upon and then they ended up being supported by the Soviet Union. Of course, their current Russia is not the Soviet Union, but there is that background. Even during now, the Russia that we have now, Putin has had a very good relationship with South Africa. And now, when this war with Ukraine broke out, South Africa took two positions.

They appear to be contradictory, but it's two positions. One was to be an unaligned with the view of being part of facilitation for peace. The other one was to appear to be on the side of Russia. And I can explain why it seems as if these two views appear contradictory. The first one, which is to appear to be non-aligned, is basically South Africa wanting to insert itself among the countries that are wanting a resolution of the conflict peacefully. That's why South Africa mobilized other African countries to put together a plan to both Russia and Ukraine to say, we need to stop the war, and this is how we see it. So they went to see President

Zelensky, they went to see President Putin as the African delegation to try to resolve the conflict. Then the other aspect, which is more like a subtle appreciation of why Russia has taken the stance against Ukraine. That element can be explained by the fact that the ANC believes that Europe is wanting to expand its influence to what the entire East Russia obviously has issues with Europe being so influential around its doors. So the ANC feels that that kind of expansion of European influence towards Ukraine is unreasonable because it makes Russia feel so insecure. and therefore Russia sort of feels itself justified to wage a war. So it's quite a complex position to take.

I'm not entirely sympathetic with that view. I think there is under no circumstances, it's a war justifiable. And I think that there should have been some intervention quite early on to facilitate an agreement for peaceful resolution of the conflict where the interest of both sides, both Russia's own feeling of insecurity, is addressed and Ukraine's democracy is protected and Europe's interests are also looked after.

So I think there is a space for all of these views to actually coexist. But the moment one side of it is elevated over the other, then there's no way you can resolve the conflict in my view. Thank you so much. I mean, Tats, do you agree? We wonder if this historical anti-European colonialism affinity with Russia is felt among the people of South Africa from your people. perspective? This one less so. This war in terms of South African population is the one,

for lack of a better word, that's fought in the boardroom. The presence of even Russians is not as prevalent in South Africa. Whereas if you go to Cape Town now, for example, there are areas that people have painted Palestinian flags on their buildings and neighborhoods have been done up artfully and artistically and all this kind of coverage. There is, There is no Ukrainian protest I can lead you to this weekend. But equally that, in terms of the Russian stance, there is no rallying for that either. So literally these decisions and this passion for Russia and Ukraine is a government and a politician deadly game because people are actually dying as we are doing this dance.

Their relationship with Russia is very sentimental. South. South Africa has no intention of adopting the Russian system. South Africa is on the West in terms of value systems, individual rights, constitution, democracy, and all of there. But in terms of the conduct of politics, South Africa is dismayed that the West sometimes doesn't apply those values in international affairs. South Africa wants to implement those values in international affairs and it often clashes with the West on how to get around it. If you look at what happened, with the Lady R contravis. South Africa was accused of selling arms to Russia.

Lady R was the name of the ship. Yeah. If South Africa was arrogant towards the West, it could have said, listen, we actually don't care whether this is true or not because we can trade with whoever we want. South Africa instead went out all on its way to actually disprove that this is not true.

We actually appointed a senior judge to investigate the allegation. So South Africa actually does want to disprove an allegation that it is so close to Russia to the point that it can trade weapons with Russia. So there's that type of complexity about South Africa. And actually that story, there's a lot of hypocrisy in how Western media comment on these relationships. For example, the lady are the ship of alleged arms being sold by South Africa to Russia. That was one of the few stories we did see in our media.

about, you know, what was happening outside of the West with regards to Russia and Ukraine. We saw that story. We didn't see any really headlines about the results of the court case within South Africa that found those allegations to be false. Sure we take a moment to just think about whether there's any hypocrisy? I'm not sure whether it's Western hypocrisy or it's just people being ignorant. And if it's being ignorant, I am not sure whether it's ignorant as it happens or, is ignorance by choice and if it's hypocrisy

I am not sure that the hypocrisy is deliberate or it's some kind of like passive hypocrisy that people don't care. We can't use language like is there hypocrisy there's just some things that we know are going on. The difficult thing to do is okay what am I

going to do as a citizen? The only way that people are going to give a shit is if it affects them. Guys go on to the world news and watch what is happening, just in other countries. If you did, you would see there's so much to care about that it's easier to not.

That's what happens to human beings. But the postulating and thinking, hey, is this really happening? I can't, you know, in terms of Gaza and Ukraine and even the states, when people go, I can't believe this is happening. I want to slap them in the face. Because how long must you live to believe that this happens and your government does it? You who live in the UK, you live in America, us who live in South Africa,

cannot be responsible citizens and still be baffled about why things are the way they are. Tats and Guanzo, thank you so much for joining us. Before we lose you, do you have anything you want to plug to our listeners? Where can they follow you? I don't want you to follow me. If you enjoyed this, come and find me. Okay. And in Pomolelo, do you have anything that you want to plug to our listeners or is there a way that they can follow you if they're allowed?

Well, I write a weekly column, a weekly political column on News 24 and I'm happy to say it's a platform where all kinds of views are expressed there. Well, thank you both so much for joining us. We've really, really enjoyed this discussion and we're sure our listeners will too. After the break, we'll be taking a closer look at what's happening domestically in South. Africa in this year of elections and hearing from people on the ground about what news stories matter to them. This episode is brought to you by Square. You're not just running a restaurant, you're building something big, and Square's there for all of it, giving your customers more ways to order, whether that's in person with Square kiosk or online. Instant access to your sales, plus the funding you need to go

even bigger. And real-time insights so you know what's working, what's not, and what's next. Because when you're doing big things, your tools should too. Visit square.ca to get started. Welcome back to MediaStorm. Now, if you've been following the South African election in international news, you've probably heard from foreign correspondents about why this election is of particular relevance to outside viewers. At MediaStorm, we wanted to hear from people on the ground. We've collected insights from people of different races, ages, classes, gender and gender minorities, and migration statuses about the issues that matter to them in this election.

For reference, the ANC or African National Congress is the ruling party. The Democratic Alliance, or DA, is the largest opposition party. It's seen as pro-business, it's planning to scrap the ANC's flagship black empowerment scheme, and it's criticised as representing white privilege, though it denies this claim and says it wants to reduce poverty for all South Africans, regardless of skin colour. And the other major opposition you need to know about is the Economic Freedom Fighters Party. Formed by a firebrand former leader of the ANC's youth wing, it brands itself as Marxist, making it less popular with the business.

community drawing support instead from primarily young, black and poor voters. Here's what they had to say. I feel a responsibility to vote, specifically because my ancestors never had the opportunity to vote in this country. I am Indian. We came over as indentured labourers in the 1800s and worked on sugar cane plantations. So I find it necessary for me to have a say. I'll definitely be voting and I'll be voting. for the Democratic Alliance. This year my vote is going to the EFF.

The best party is EFF. We are focusing on the ANC because we have invested our entire life. We still hope that the ANC will attend to us. There's so many parties I don't want to vote for. The person I'm toying with is an independent person, even though him as himself maybe can't carry the power of the whole ANC when you have an ANC MP, but he could disrupt.

I believe that fresh, young, almost revolutionary perspectives need to be brought into the government. The issues most important to me would be the economy and public infrastructure, with a secondary being corruption. A job has been cut, factories has been closed down, small businesses are closing too because of the power of electricity.

The economy is important. I am a homeowner in Cape Town. In the last election, I thought that that was the most important. But within the last four or five years, that has completely shifted. I think the value of a human life is sort of more than the economy. I'm not saying I want the economy to fail. I really want us to prosper. I really want South Africa to be successful financially and economically.

But at the same time, human beings, man, the homelessness, the amount of people living in informal settlements, that's important. Probably the most fundamental thing to discuss in this. South African context is land reform. To see such a small amount of land going towards black people, people of color, and it still be owned by people, colonizers essentially. Nothing has changed on that front. Because of our history and land have been taken the way that it was and wealth and if not

being redistributed now, it's the reason why we have all of the issues with regard to inequality and unemployment and poverty. For foreign years, things are not good in. the country. We are still experiencing the endless problem. We can't be integrated. So most of the foreigners in this country are suffering. Obviously, corruption. Corruption 100%. That's why we'll never vote for the ANC. They have stolen so much from the South African people. I believe there'll be corruption in any government. However, the DA seems to be running things quite well in the Western Cape, which I've experienced over the last couple years. And I believe that they'll be able to

to put a stop to the rough corruption throughout the entire country. In terms of corruption, we need to hold people accountable and not just only the people that have performed corrupt acts within the last 30 years, but prior to that, I think we are a country that lacks a lot of accountability when it comes to the pain and suffering and injustices that have been caused by people in power. Criminality is a big problem in this country, too. Crime rates, 100%, like I just got robbed the other day, and I hate it, the feeling of being violated like that. South Africa is one of the dangerous place in the world.

For foreigners, now we have hijacking people being kidnapping. When you resist, they kill you, they rob you or they shoot you. We still live in an incredibly segregated society with a lot of social injustices, mainly gender-based violence. Well, queer and trans health care is very important to me. Like I know, for example, the EFF has a great mandate when it comes to transness. But the EFF, if they were in power, I don't know how much they would stick to what they're saying. I think these elections are a big question mark compared to the past, where we actually, for the first time, don't know what will happen. So watershed moments.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. An interesting point is even the older generation who supported the ANC, have finally shifted. I can speak to my parents, for example, they've been a part of the ANC for their whole life, and they have stated that this election, they will not be voting for the ANC. So it is definitely an interesting time for the country, but it's also not a fairy tale. It's not going to change overnight. These are deep-rooted issues that is going to take generations to ultimately change, but it's about actually starting to see that shift. I think there's a time for a revolution that's coming,

not just in this country, but within all of the global south. And I look forward to it. And that is why my vote is going where it's going. Now for our final section, the take-home section. At the end of every media storm episode, we like to give you something unexpected to talk about, like revisiting old and forgotten news stories. In this case, one of our own.

OG listeners may remember our episode on the fine line between terrorists and freedom fighters in which we spoke to people who'd been convicted as terrorists for what they saw as legitimate acts of resistance. Among them, we spoke to former ANC revolutionaries who joined the armed struggle against apartheid in South Africa. They were pretty angry with the party they put into power, saying they'd been neglected and betrayed and still felt like criminals and terrorists under today.

administration. At this vital time for the ANC, we wondered, will they topple their former comrades or do the loyalties of brothers-in-arms die hard? Okay, I'm going to start. Yeah, first of all, my name is highly to Keizda in Yamakazi. I've been involved in the revolution for quite a long time since the day I was 12 years of age. And Vizamzi? I'm Bussum Zanzibya started becoming involved in the struggle after the 1976 incident in Soweto. At that time, I was at school. Please can you tell me why are veteran freedom fighters across South Africa mobilizing once again?

We are mobilizing partly because the current regime has neglected and marginalized the veterans of the ANC. We want attention from the government. Many of us are now drinking, men. Many of us have resorted in stealing, roping, and all that stuff. We have no food, man. We have no medical attention. We have been knocking on the government offices since 1996. We don't get the answers.

The veterans have no other person to blame except the current government of South Africa. The current president is doing absolutely nothing. He is not actually prepared to listen to us. I would say that in the past, you have demonstrated your skills at undermining governments. Do you think your actions are affecting the government's popularity today? Yes. They are deeply affecting the government popularity.

The 29 May, 24 election is a very interesting. in the election locally and international to test the popularity of the current government. You'll see this comrades knocking into the doors of the four people begging votes. How do you expect to reap when we never saw? There is no freedom in South Africa. It's only a political freedom, Matilda. And I believe that a political freedom without economic freedom is null and void, is nothing. The current ruling party has dismally failed its voters.

It failed, Tata Matiba, it failed that a tumble, it failed that a raven trouble, and many more of the struggle veterans who died. I think their ancestral spirit is very angry. The voters must now choose wisely their leaders, otherwise you automatically become an accomplice. You said voters must choose wisely. Who is the wise choice? which political party do you think would bring the best results for your country and for veterans?

Right now, I'll be honest with you, my children, we are focusing on the ANC. Because the ANC is a ruling party, because we have invested our entire life, we still hope that the ANC will attend to us. The only thing that we need is to exert more pressure to the ANC. So that's exactly what the people are now doing. For now, we do not want to speak to other parties. We focus entirely to the ANC. We love the ANC because it is an ancestral organization.

My mother was an ANC member. She died an ANC member. That is why I'm saying fighting ANC is like fighting your own limb. So I won't say ANC must succumb, ANC must perish, but ANC must listen to the people. Because ANC is in those positions because of the people of South Africa. Thank you for listening. We'll be back next week with another current affairs weekly show,

and Cocoa Khan will be filling in for me again. The week after that, we're bringing you a special investigation into the transparency or lack thereof in the UK's justice system. We wanted to give a special shout out to our Patreon supporters who fund these investigations. If you want to support us, our Patreon link is in the show notes. Thank you to our new supporters at Gollhanger, and thank you all for listening. Follow MediaStorm wherever you get your podcast so that you can get access to new episodes

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produced by Helena Wadier and Matilda Mallin with music from Samfire. You can follow us on social media at Matilda Mal at Helen Awadier and follow the show via at MediaStorm pod. Listen and hit follow on Spotify.