Media Storm - The truth about 'luxury' prisons

Episode Date: January 20, 2022

Media Storm presented by Mathilda Mallinson and Helena Wadia If you’ve read UK news over the past year, you’ll likely have heard of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill making its way through Parliament. It’s a "tough-on-crime" piece of policy - a phrase the government use readily. And it’s back in the headlines this week, as The House of Lords voted against its plans to clamp down on disruptive and noisy protesters. Part of the Policing Bill's promise is sending more criminals in prison for longer. Yet, judging by some headlines, being locked up isn’t even punishment enough. Prisons are frequently criticised for being too luxurious and too lenient. Is this really the case? We asked Paula Harriott, who spent four years in prison, to tell us the truth about so-called 'luxury prisons'.  Paula Harriott (@paula_harriott) is Head of Prisoner Engagement at the Prison Reform Trust (@PRTuk).  Get in touch: Follow us on Twitter http://twitter.com/mediastormpod or Instagram https://www.instagram.com/mediastormpod or Tiktok https://www.tiktok.com/@mediastormpod like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/MediaStormPod send us an email [e-mail] check out our website https://mediastormpodcast.com Music by Samfire @soundofsamfire.  Media Storm is brought to you by the house of The Guilty Feminist and is part of the Acast Creator Network. Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/media-storm. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to MediaStorm, a news podcast that starts with the people who are normally asked last. I'm Matilda Malinson and I'm Helena Wadia. And we're back with some bonus content for our loyal listeners. If you've read UK news over the past year, you'll likely have heard of the police crime sentencing in Courtsville, making its way through Parliament. It's a tough on-crime piece of policy and it's back in the headlines. this week, being bandied around by a government hoping to score political points, which, let's face it, they need now more than ever. What does the bill promise?

More criminals in prison for longer. And there is definitely a populist appetite for this. In fact, judging by some headlines, being locked up isn't even punishment enough. Prisons are frequently criticised for being too luxurious, too lenient. Is this really the way? case. We asked Paula Harriet, who spent four years in prison, to give us the insider's story. I am your president of law and order. New sentencing laws will see that the most serious offenders, the gang, the drug barrens, the thugs, the terrorists, I will be tough on crime. Why is this

government determined to lock up chipsies and travelers? Half capital punishment, that would act as a deterrent. A mirror headline from this week expresses outrage that Britain's worst prisoners like Wayne Cousins given festive Christmas feasts behind bars. Wayne Cousins is, of course, the man who raped and murdered Sarah Everard in March last year. Now, this story about luxury behind bars, crops up again and again in the press. I'll read out a few more. From the mail, it looks like a luxury development,

but it's a category C prison. From the sun, inside VIP prisons with sex, football, and PS4s. And inside the Scottish sun, Tough Scots prison ranked second cushiest in the world, in capital letters, for cons. Paula, I think we're particularly interested in what you think about this so-called concept of luxury prison. It's rubbish.

I mean, to keep it really simple, and like really simple for the viewers, right? When we talk about luxury, we're talking about clean. That's all. You know, there are so many prisoners in this country that are rat-infested, you know. Please look at what prisoners eat when they talk about festive. You're eating off a blue plate, plastic plate with a plastic knife and fork.

And you'll be getting. like one slice of turkey, ham and maybe two roast potatoes. I mean, it's minimal. I was in prison at Christmas. I tell you what I did for Christmas in prison. I lay on the bed from nine o'clock in the morning and I read a book. I opened a book on Christmas morning and lay on the bed and read this book the whole way through, the whole way through. And the reason that I read that book was the pain of not being with my kids, the pain of knowing, of knowing, that I had to endure this separation. The lack of humanity, you know, the feelings of guilt,

the self-hatred, Christmas's prison isn't festive. It's a reminder that you're outside of society. It's a reminder that you're serving a sentence. It's a reminder of what you've done. Yeah, you might have bravado and you might have a PS4 and you might be able to play a game. but you're not going to be able to pick up the phone and ring your kids whenever you want

your kids are not going to ring you you're not WhatsApping or zooming you're not doing all the things that we do out here you're serving your sentence and sometimes you're serving that sentence not for one year not for two years but for 30 years in a repetitive cycle of Groundhog Day

people might say yeah it's deserved and you brought it on yourself yeah yes people have done some awful things I work in prisons. People have done some awful things, things that if I really check it in my heart, I go, oh my God. But they're still human beings. We still have a responsibility as civil society to treat those people with regard to second chances, to the acknowledgement that sometimes people make awful mistakes, awful dreadful mistakes. but if we dig deep and we create the conditions for people to reflect,

to develop, to mature, that they can still make contributions to our community. In all of these conversations about festivity, Christmas and the spirit of Christmas, it feels really mealy-mouthed, doesn't it, for us to take joy to resent that somebody might have a clean cell, that they might, in the midst of serving their sentence, still be able to play a game on the PS4 that they might be able to eat some decent food one day, yeah.

Yeah, I think stories that categorise prisons as places where inmates enjoy luxuries inverted commas like a Christmas dinner, they're just adding to fueling that view that the system is, you know, soft on crime. Like this story in the mirror that we're talking about, frustrated me so much because it isn't even a story. Like, the reporter just describes the food they get on Christmas Day as a feast, which is a wild over-exaggeration, especially from what we've just heard from you, Paula. And then a Ministry of Justice spokesperson says that this is within the existing budget.

It didn't cost any more to the taxpayer. And that's the story. And prisoners are very often hungry. Do you know that most prisoners have to supplement prison food by buying food out of their private cash and about from their prison wages. Tins of tuna are a currency in prison. Tins of tuna are currency in prison. It's because prisoners are hungry. They have to, like you have to have family, send money in. Or you have to, you know, most prisoners get paid £10 a week, prison wages. They'll put £1 for their TV. So they'll pay for their use

of the TV. So they get £9.00. And people will buy food. That's the story. A lot of of this attack on the rights of people on the wrong end of the criminal justice system is part of the government's quote tough on crime policy agenda part of that tough on crime branding that we're seeing and I feel like prisons are represented in two contrasting ways and one is as these luxury hotels or holiday camps and then the other is as these like dangerous and violent institutions and it seems like which one is depicted is just picked in accordance to a paper's agenda if you want the very cynical outlook on it. But prisons are communities, aren't they?

So like if you bring a community together of people who've got all sorts of stuff going on, all sort of issues that have preempted their inch into that system and you place them all together with very little resource and very little idea about what you're doing with them other than warehousing them, it's inevitable that you're going to have ten. and dysfunctionality, inability to form relationships. So it's actually amazing that bearing in mind, that's the context, you know, that people in prison, people, the people in prison,

actually managed to rub along in the way they do. And that's down to the human spirit and what I see as the good that lies within all people. You know, prisons wouldn't exist in the way they do if prisoners didn't cooperate, if prisoners didn't take on jobs in the prison, people don't contribute into the community. You know, prisoners doing the cooking, prisoners doing the cleaning.

Prisoners contribute to the prison community. Yeah, the depiction of violence. Violence is there. It's an inevitability. Kindness is also there because that's the human condition. And I just think that telling one more rounded story about the humanity of the people who live and work in prisons is part of the way that we also deconstruct this really harmful narrative

that is just so black and white. Yeah, and you know, I think ultimately that that narrative just doesn't serve us well. Like, if you look at some of the names in this mirror article, including Wayne Cousins, like we are all disgusted and horrified by what Wayne Cousins did. Sorry, I actually find it, like, quite hard to talk about Sarah Avrop without getting, like, very emotional. But when we dehumanize the people that commit those crimes, and when we turn to, them into monsters we forget that a woman is killed by a man every three days you know and we forget that most women are abused by a family member or or an intimate partner so I don't think it actually

serves us in any way to talk about you know criminals as if they are the other and as if they are not the man walking down the street yeah and we shouldn't be frightened to express our emotional responses to these crimes because they are you know i work in prisons sometimes i'm shocked you know like and feel disturbed and feel upset about what i hear but you know what i hold on to i holds on to their understanding that there is more to the story than i know that remorse is a is a change agent and that we need to create the conditions in our society in our community where we have more of a strategic response to crime and to punishment and to purpose because that's the way we're all going to be safer when we sort of like somehow step back and go what does the evidence say

about what works here to deter this person to prevent this happening in the first place that's what we need to be doing follow media storm wherever you get your podcast so that you can get access to new episodes as soon as they drop if you like what you hear share this episode with someone and leave us a five-star rating and a review on Apple Podcasts. It really helps more people discover the podcast, and our aim is to have as many people as possible hear these voices. You can also follow us on social media at Matilda Mal, at Helena Wadia, and follow the show via at MediaStorm pod.

Get in touch and let us know what you'd like us to cover or who you'd like us to speak to. Media Storm, a new podcast from the House of the Guilty Feminist, is part of the ACAS creator network. It is produced by Tom Salinsky and Deborah Francis White. The music is by Samfair.