Media Storm - This is How You Do It: Reed Amber and Florence Bark of Come Curious

Episode Date: September 8, 2022

Warning: Strong language and frank discussions about sex Media Storm hosts Mathilda and Helena meet their mainstream media matches! In this crossover bonus series with The Guilty Feminist, they interview journalists and activists trying to make their imperfect industries a little bit less so, about their noble goals and - you guessed it - the hypocrisies and insecurities that undermine them! Brought to you by The Guilty Feminist, every other Thursday. This week’s episode features the sweet-talking, sex-loving, shame-smashing duo behind Come Curious, hosts of the F**ks Given podcast and OnlyFans sensations… Reed Amber (@reedamberx) and Florence Bark (@florencebark)! These two intimacy and relationship experts work dedicatedly to educate the world about sexuality, sensuality, and excavating their deepest desires. In this episode, we discuss how the mainstream media gets in the way of that mission: through sex censorship, outdated stigmas, and the sensationalism and stereotyping of sex work. All the S’s! The episode is hosted by Mathilda Mallinson (@mathildamall) and Helena Wadia (@helenawadia). For more information on The Guilty Feminist and other episodes: visit https://www.guiltyfeminist.com tweet us https://www.twitter.com/guiltfempod like our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/guiltyfeminist check out our Instagram https://www.instagram.com/theguiltyfeminist or join our mailing list http://www.eepurl.com/bRfSPT For more information on Media Storm: Follow us on Twitter http://twitter.com/mediastormpod or Instagram https://www.instagram.com/mediastormpod or Tiktok https://www.tiktok.com/@mediastormpod like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/MediaStormPod send us an email [e-mail] check out our website https://mediastormpodcast.com Media Storm is brought to you by the house of The Guilty Feminist and is part of the Acast Creator Network. The Guilty Feminist theme by Mark Hodge and produced by Nick Sheldon. This Is How You Do It theme by Samfire (@soundofsamfire) Thank you to our amazing Patreon supporters. To support the podcast yourself, go to https://www.patreon.com/guiltyfeminist Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/media-storm. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Get tickets now. Hello, Guilty Feminists, this is Helena Wadia. And Mattelda Mallinson. And we're the hosts of MediaStorm and we're so happy to bring you another episode of This Is How You Do It. We are really excited to announce today's guest. They are the founders of Come Curious, a space where being open and talking about sex is the name of the game. And they are the hosts of Foxgiven, the podcast where they speak about sex, relationships and body positivity with no filter, no censor, and, well, no Foxgiven. Reid Amber and Florence Park, welcome to the show.

It's so good to see you here. Yay. Well, really we should do that one at a time so people can distinguish your voice. Oh, that's smart. We have to do like a little like say each other's name at the beginning of our podcast. We're like, oh, hi, Reed.

Hi, Florence. But then that could also confuse people. I'm Florence. Yeah, and I'm Reed. We often use this recording of this is how you do it as an excuse to eat and drink whatever we want. So we have here a lovely chocolate cake. Wow.

The reason being that it's kind of our birthday? Kind of. Wait, what? It's about a year ago that we came up with the idea of we just off. Oh my goodness, why there no candles on this? Don't you just shut my liar in the middle. Should I just spit all over the cake? I don't know.

Well, congratulations. Happy birthday. Thank you. Would anybody like some cake? I would like a little sliver, yes. Sliver. Sliver. Sliver?

or a slither or a slid the slither oh oh that's a very little slither is that too little when are you talking like cake a sliver of cake yeah no it's a slither okay is that too little that's fine that's beautiful beautiful it's just basically like a very thin slice is that a sliver with a theme is that even what a sliver let's have a look I don't what are you talking about you know the phrase I'll have a sliver of cake it is suck my dick everybody it's a sliver no what so sliver is a thin sharp piece, usually broken off something larger. So it is actually with a V. Yeah, it says you do not say slither if you only want a little bit, ask for a sliver. Wow. This is already a groundbreaking episode. Florence, would you like a sliver? I'm going to politely decline a sliver of cake because I am on a strict no sugar diet for my vaginal health. Oh, yay. Not the like any diets or anything like that, it's literally just because I suffer with chronic BV and I've been bacterial vaginosis, which is like the smelly badge symptom. I've had it loads, but yeah, my started at like the start of the pandemic and then it kind

of just didn't really go away. It went like it was, this is really horrible conversations to have after thinking about eating cake. I was so sorry. I've been talking to the Yoni nutritionist Oh, yeah. And figuring out all the things that I can't eat. And sugar's one of the biggest culprits in, like, any vaginal infection, like, BB or thrush. Thrash, like, I'm the thrush queen. I get thrush all the time. And also, UTIs.

It's like sugar is basically just, I have vaginas are just not okay with it. It's not always down to the sugar, but sugar can feed the bacteria. It's one of the biggest, I think, in the diet and the space. You know what? I'm inclined to blame the patriarchy again. And I'm not sure why. Let's go back to patriarchy. I'm stuffing my face with cake as we have this conversation.

Well, I have already enjoyed how openly we have been talking. Because you don't get that on every podcast. And to be honest, like, we wanted you on this is how you do it. Because come curious, it shares the same mission as Media Storm in terms of not wanting to, be around the bush and wanting to speak openly and honestly and factually to our listeners. And that is what Come Curious does. But just tell us what it is for listeners who might not know. Come Curious started out as a YouTube channel.

We met on a corn set. We did. We were obsessed with talking about sex, basically. And we spoke about everything from nipple hairs, discharge, kinks that we had, masturbation. How to fuck properly. How to take dick sizes. you know we did everything we covered everything yeah anything that we felt embarrassed or uncomfortable to talk about we tried really hard to make it into a thing and talk about it more and help other

people because if we have those same hang-ups and embarrassments and shames then so many other people will as well yeah because we made each other feel so much more comfortable and confident with our bodies from just like having the conversations openly there's always something to talk about and we were really lucky enough to create our podcast Foxgiven, which almost it was an extension of the YouTube channel. The YouTube channel was great and had a big audience, but I think it was podcasts, maybe the fact that we weren't being physically watched that people could listen to it anonymously and their ears on their commute. And that just exploded. And the fact that we were talking to other people as well. And I think that just opened up the conversation even more because

they were like, okay, it's not just these two girls that, like, talking about sex, every single person that they get on the podcast is also up for having the conversation. Yeah, absolutely. It's so true that if you enjoy having these conversations, probably other people will too. Almost everyone does it in the world.

You know, it's why we're here. Everything revolves around sex, or not having sex. Yeah. And it's like, sex is everything. It's like power and wealth and attractiveness and the whole world is, does revolve. Our lives revolve around sex. We're so obsessed with the idea.

of getting a partner and having somebody and getting married and that's all down to sex even if you're asexual there is still a part of you that will be thinking about sex yeah i do you have a question though do you ever feel like scared or anxious to be speaking so openly about sex and i wonder if i'm asking this question because i come from a south asian background where literally it is never spoken about it's so swept under the rug but i don't know do you or did you ever when you started out feel or have this anxiety about talking about it so openly we were talking about this the other day like when we started talking about it everyone that was blogging about sex on the internet was always doing it anonymously yeah and we we really felt like this is a subject that

you need to put your face to because otherwise like people aren't going to engage with it in the same way because they're going to be like well if that person's anonymous and they're talking about sex then that means that it's still kind of there's a shame there and they're scared it reinforces the stigma Exactly. But of course there have been moments through both mine and Florence's lives where anxiety has come and there are moments where we're like, oh, should we talk about that? What can we talk about? Especially when it comes to partners and what they're comfortable talking about.

There are elements in my personal life, like my fetishes that I love. I really struggled talking about that, but that was like more internalised shame. Does talking about it actually help you overcome that internalised shame? Absolutely. I mean, that's my therapy works so well. Basically, we were just selfish and we just created our own little therapy space. So I think it was always like a little bit hard

putting our faces out there and our voices out there when it comes to sex. But we always had a kind of like greater vision. We always knew it was for a good purpose. And I think the more that we did it, the more comfortable and relaxed that we did get with it. I definitely had times when my dad was like, this is going to destroy your future.

Like you're never going to be able to do this kind of job or this kind of job. because you've been out here talking about sex. You've got only fans. Oh my God. God forbid those images get out in the future. Yeah. And it's also like, well, maybe that was never our career path.

Maybe we just never wanted to have a corporate job where we were in an environment where they weren't accepting of this. It was the same with me doing sex work. I think my mum was also just like, oh, be careful. Don't put nudes online. Don't do porn. And I was just like, this is me. This is who I am.

It's society that doesn't, that isn't okay. with it and that is making me feel shitty. It's like, but that's like my true self when I think about it. When you, when you ask yourself, where does the anxiety and the fear come from? And if it's somebody else, if it's somebody else, then it's like, that's on them. It's not on you. You should be doing you. But it's, yeah, it's been a bit of a roller coaster of like poking in the dark and

be like, is this going to get back to a family member? It always comes down to family. It's not even really friends. Yeah. Friends or you think about like, oh, my old schoolmates who are horrible to me or or like the school bullies, if they hear that, that doesn't really make a difference. It's always down to family.

Yeah, which is actually such an interesting question. Why does family come with those added layers of shame around sex? It's almost like if we talk about sex with our family, that means we're into incest. It's like this really weird, constructed. But why can't we? I mean, I'm lucky I can talk to my family about sex and my sister really in depth about sex,

but then not really my dad, not really my brother, definitely not grandparents. I mean, we all have those awkward memories as kids when you get a rental DVD and you'd be watching it with your family and then it would take a turn and the sexy cup and everyone's just looking around the room pretending that there's something,

there's a fly that's really captivating their attention. I think it's because people get turned on when they talk about sex. And they don't want to be around the fan. And that's where the, I guess, awkwardness comes from because it's like, well, if I'm talking about sex and I'm getting turned on. I don't want to be around my family

because that's incest. Yeah, it's like, I don't know how we jumped to it. It's just like, Freud was right. I want to fuck my dad. Freud would have a feel day. I do have to say, yeah, my mom attempted to give me the sex talk at age 25, and I had to turn around her and say,

Mom, you're literally 10 years too late. Thanks, Mom. She tried. She was all like, it's about time, yeah. Yeah. I feel like she's running. Yeah, maybe like 25. I'd also be in a,

a long-term relationship for five years by that point. What? Mama, come on. As well as talking about sex and relationships and sexuality and some hilariously graphic stories. Amazing. Thank you. You talk very openly about doing sex work.

And this is something that we covered on Media Storm in series one. We looked at how the mainstream media reports. on sex work and it was one of our most engaged with episodes we had really great feedback but a lot of people engaged so much because they said it changed their view and that they had prior misconceptions so what are the main myths and stereotypes around sex work that you see within the media and how do you smash those the first thing we think about isn't it is like those old like channel four documentaries about like people that are shoved to the streets to sell their bodies to get money.

I think of film. To put food on the table for their children. Yeah, or pimps, you think of pimps, violence, drugs. I watched the butterfly effect. And there's like a bit where she turns into a prostitute, a sex worker. And I was like, oh my God, no wonder I thought that prostitutes were vile and horrible beings. She's represented as like she's got like cuts all over her body and she's there like covering up a heroin. And like her face looks awful.

and she's living in absolute squalor, and she's horrible. And it's like, and obviously that's part of the story. He's like, no, if I change everything, she won't be a sex worker anymore and horrible to me. Yeah, the media, that is exactly what the representation is. So no wonder people have misconceptions. And if they don't look like that, then they are seen as the homewreckers. And like, it's never about this, you know, person of parliament, what's it called? This politician, MP.

A person of parliament. I like that. Politician is, you know, oh, he's been caught with a sex worker and it's like, she's the home wrecker and you just never really hear about the guy. It's always like her fault. And it's just like, she was just doing a fucking job, man.

Oh, it's all about the money. They're only doing it for the money because the money's amazing. Why else would you do it? Yeah, or there are those like massive, like the stories that usually make the headlines are like so-and-so made 10 million pounds in a month from the only fans.

Yeah, absolutely. And I guess that kind of undermines the hard work that sex workers do as well. Yes, it's this idea. Sex work is the only profession where people feel comfortable enough to comment on money and be like, so, how do you make that? How much money do you make?

God, you must make a packet. Like, no one would talk about that if they were working in a bank. We also have so much shame around talking about money. And I think it's really important to say, oh, actually, I earn this much and I'm okay with saying that. I think we need to be talking about money

but at the same time maybe that's not the place that we need to be having the conversation in the sex work. Yeah. We should be talking we should be talking to, we need it everywhere. Independent journalism. I was talking to my friend who's a journalist and a writer about the money in that space and it is shockingly low. It's like how

do you expect people to live? We haven't figured out how to pay for independent journalism yet. I don't know if this is a place where we should ask listeners to send feedback about how you would feel have we started setting up a Patreon and asking for donations or something. We're getting ony fans. Sexy topless journalism.

One podcast mic over each tit. Yes. Although I would need about three on each tip. Mine is so big. Beautiful. Well, on that note, let's take a little break. Have some more cake and we'll see you in a couple of minutes. Okay, everyone, it's a genie time.

Here on this is how you do it, we have a very stingy genie. The genie only gives, I'll guess, one wish rather than three. And it's one wish only to change anything you like about the mainstream media. Go. Do you get one wish each? or do they have to share and negotiate and agree on the collective? All the other guests have had to share and negotiate.

This genie sucks. Also because it can't even grant you'll wish afterwards. It's probably a Tory. What would we change about the media? Probably, I don't know, like the judgment. Would you go, I feel like judgment? If there was no judgment in the media, then people would just say it how it is.

Everyone would be very frank. It would, just be like, well, we're human, and of course that's going to happen. Yeah. Of course you're going to feel like that. It would be like, oh my God, that's normal. Congratulations. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rather than, oh my God, this person had this on their body. Imagine that TV show, embarrassing bodies. Yes. It would just be bodies. Yeah, it would just be bodies. You'd be like, we're here to help and make everyone feel better. Yeah. A judgment-free media, that can relate to stuff like abortion,

and actually there's a lot of judgment when we report on abortion. There's a lot of judgment we report on sex, on sex work. Yeah, I think actually you're right, because it would encourage maybe a more intelligent approach towards reporting on crime and towards looking at root causes of crime rather than pinning everything on moral, individual moral failures, which hasn't ever helped us to solve crime.

And it's the same with reporting on immigration. And rather than talking about invading migrants, taking advantage of humanitarian Brits, it's actually, why don't we look at why there are so many people displaced and in need of sanctuary and not finding it any closer to home than the UK. It's actually a really good way to solve the media.

Just make sure that you're reading things or looking at things that align with your own values and that make you feel good and positive about yourself. That don't make you feel crap and shit. I think avoid those kind of places. It's really hard to though, especially if you, you know, your parents have always read a certain type of newspaper and you pick that up and then you're like, oh, it's actually quite entertaining. Yeah.

And we don't want polarising camps of people resorting to their echo chambers, but that's not the same as seeing a media that is fundamentally making you feel a rationally bad about yourself and taking a stand against it and rewarding the media that is doing better. Yeah. Well, actually on this topic, so we actually met at the British podcast. Awards, which was, honestly, I was such a little fan girl. I ran out to read in Florence. I was like, oh my God, hi guys, look, I'm curious. Helen has spotted you within about five minutes. Yeah.

You may think it was like a cute little spontaneous. Stop, stop ruining it. It was a meet cute, okay? Meeku. But at the British Podcast Awards, so you guys were there because you were nominated for Best Sex and Relationships podcast. Florence, you actually called something out about it afterwards. Can you tell us about that?

So the podcast that won our section was a rape documentary, which we saw that this was part of the nominations, and we had kind of flagged it to begin with. Like, why is there a documentary podcast about rape in a category that is about podcasts that talk about sex and relationships and like opening the conversations, you know, rape is not sex? Rape is not sex. It's the same with trafficking is not sex. work. Yes. Very different things. Very common conflations in the media, sex work and trafficking.

We spoke about that on our media storm episode about sex work, hugely common conflation. Sex and rape, like the idea that rape is somehow about sex or sexual urges when it's about power and it's about control. Yeah, you know, it's nothing against this podcast, right? Yeah, nothing against it. But you just felt it was in the wrong category. This is what happens with sex.

the time in the media, everything is always conflated with the negative side. So like sex trafficking, they're always put in the same place as just talking about sex. And it happens time and time again. Let's end on a positive. What has been one of the most joyous moments of your careers in the media? Holy fucking shit. Wow. There are so many amazing things and moments that we've had from doing what we do. I think recently seeing our faces all over London and all over these Jurex adverts, that has been incredible. I'm literally on posters holding some condoms being like, yeah, fuck correctly, guys. Yeah, I had that moment on the platform with people and I was like, oh, yeah, I'm interviewing her next one.

Yeah, it's so cool. It's like mad. It is cool. We did a talk at a festival. we'll be out here last weekend and the tent was packed and spilling out the sides because everyone wanted to be there listening to a conversation about oral sex and it was in that moment that we were kind of like oh shit like people actually want to hear this like when you do something like us everyone's just a number or a stat and you don't actually connect with your audience until you see them all in front of you and so many people came up to us afterwards as well and i think in that moment i was like this is why we do what we do like this is this is deeply impactful i don't know i don't know

why talking about sex is so impactful but it is and it was like okay cool it was literally like you changed my life you've opened the world up to like butt stuff and that's completely changed my whole sex and it's just busting that shame it's breathtaking it's like fucking hell especially from a podcast but you can only really hear our voices like how did you recognize us amazing it was amazing it was really beautiful like i felt so proud of myself the next day um and i find that really hard i find it very hard to be proud of myself so it was it was a great moment it was yeah humbling some really big takeaways from this show yeah what a beautiful beautiful way most of all i think that uh it's not a sliver of cake yeah sliver we went in that deep didn't

I know we talked about sex work and the media and politics, but really, it's a sliver of care. That's the takeaway. If you remember one thing today, I want it to be that. Reed and Florence, thank you so, so much for joining us on This is How You Do It? Where can people follow you, and do you have anything you want to plug? Of course. Apart from butts.

Oh, I mean, we want to plug them all, baby. You were thinking about that the whole website. Nice, that was correct and smart. Of course, please follow us on our Instagram at Come Curious, about C-O-M-E-Curious. You can find us on Twitter as well. Both Florence and I have our personal Instagram accounts. I'm Reid Amber X and Florence's Florence Bark.

Yes. Of course, listen to our podcast. Foxgiven. Foxgiven, spell F-A-A-A-S-G-Given. But you can find it if you search, Come Curious. C-O-M-E. Curious. You always have to clarify.

But thank you so much for how to ask you. having us on the podcast. It's been amazing and you you both do incredible stuff so keep doing the things that you're doing we can't wait to see more in the space.