Medsider: Learn from Medtech and Healthtech Founders and CEOs - Finding Your Place in the Healthcare Ecosystem: Interview with Vivante Health CEO Bill Snyder

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

In this episode of Medsider Radio, we had an engaging conversation with Bill Snyder, CEO of Vivante Health, a startup commercializing an all-in-one digital platform for digestive health conditions. GIThrive is a platform that combines data-driven technology with a team of physicians, registered dietitians, and health coaches to deliver personalized care. With over 15 years of experience in healthcare technology, Bill's background includes building and leading national sales efforts at Virta Health and overseeing their health plan practice. Previously, he spent 11 years at Humana in various leadership roles, including Vice President of the company's greater Chicago region.In this interview, Bill talks about the importance of finding where your company stands in the overall healthcare ecosystem, why clinical outcomes and sorting out reimbursement are critical to survival, and his experiences raising capital for Vivante.Before we dive into the discussion, I wanted to mention a few things:First, if you’re into learning from medical device and health technology founders and CEOs, and want to know when new interviews are live, head over to Medsider.com and sign up for our free newsletter.Second, if you want to peek behind the curtain of the world's most successful startups, you should consider a Medsider premium membership. You’ll learn the strategies and tactics that founders and CEOs use to build and grow companies like Silk Road Medical, AliveCor, Shockwave Medical, and hundreds more!We recently introduced some fantastic additions exclusively for Medsider premium members, including playbooks, which are curated collections of our top Medsider interviews on key topics like capital fundraising and risk mitigation, and a curated investor database to help you discover your next medical device or health technology investor!In addition to the entire back catalog of Medsider interviews over the past decade, premium members also get a copy of every volume of Medsider Mentors at no additional cost, including the latest Medsider Mentors Volume V. If you’re interested, go to medsider.com/subscribe to learn more.Lastly, if you'd rather read than listen, here's a link to the full interview with Bill Snyder.

Take something you're passionate about. If you're just doing it because there's a business opportunity there, that's going to be tough for those downs that you mentioned, because there are going to be ups, there's going to be downs. And when you're down, if you are not passionate about the company you're creating, the problem you're solving, the mission that you have, it's going to be really hard to get through those downs. Welcome to Medsider, where you can learn from the brightest founders and CEOs in medical devices and health technology.

Join tens of thousands of ambitious doers as we unpack the insights, tactics, and secrets behind the most successful life science startups in the world. Now, here's your host, Scott Nelson. Hey everyone, it's Scott. In this episode of MedSider, I sat down with Bill Snyder, CEO of Ivante Health, a leading digital digestive health company. With over 15 years of experience in healthcare technology, Bill's background includes building and leading national sales efforts at Verda Health, overseeing their health plan practice. Previously, he spent 11 years at Humana in various leadership roles, including vice president of the company's greater Chicago region. Here for you the key things that we discussed in this conversation.

First, as a digital health company, you have to know where your product or service fits in the overall healthcare ecosystem. That way, you know how to interact with other providers and consumers, and in turn, you can connect the dots for your end users about the precise role you play in the care they receive. Second, ensure your product is financially accessible for adoption. That requires you to understand different plans and regulations and demonstrate your products, clinical efficacy, and potential for cost savings. Target customers that you can create a clear win-win solution for. Third, show your progress to build trust with potential investors.

Network and communicate with them on a regular basis. Focus on sustainable growth and understand your businesses, unit economics and detail so you can clearly articulate and justify your decisions. All right, before we jump into this episode, I wanted to let you know that the latest edition of MedSider Mentors is now live. We just published Volume 5, which summarizes the key learnings from the most popular medsider interviews over the last several months with incredible entrepreneurs like Gabriel Jones, CEO of Proprio, Kirsten Carroll, CEO of Can Do Health, Dr. David Alpert, founder of Alpine, Greg Bolington, CEO of Magnolia Medical, and other leaders of some of the hottest startups in our space. Look, it's tough to listen or read every interview that comes out,

even the best ones. But there are so many valuable lessons you can pick up from the founders and CEOs that join our program. So that's why we decided to create MedSider mentors. It's the easiest way for you to learn from the world's best medical device and health technology entrepreneurs in one central place. To check out the latest volume, head over to Medsiderradio.com forward slash mentors. Premium members get free access to all past and future volumes. If you're not a premium member yet, you should definitely consider signing up. In addition to every volume of Medsider mentors, you'll get full access to the entire library of interviews dating back to 2010. You'll also be able to see all of our playbooks,

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Learn more about MedSider mentors and our premium memberships by visiting medsider radio.com forward slash mentors. All right, without further ado, let's jump into the interview. All right, Bill, welcome to Medsider Radio. Appreciate it coming on, man. Scott, thanks so much for having me on. Yeah, looking forward to the conversation, learning a little bit more about your personal journey as well as what you're building at Vivante.

So with that said, founder, CEO of the company, Vivante Health, we'll get into it in more detail. But without getting like too far into the weeds or going line by line on your, you know, your resume, so to speak, give us a, but gives like a high level sense of kind of where you've been, you know, leading up to starting the company. Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up in healthcare. So I'm rare in that I spent over a decade at Humana.

And that's when they had the leadership rotational programs. So right at undergrad, went to Humana, moved all around with them, and had a great experience and really learned the business of healthcare, which was really interesting. My last role there was managing the Chicago office. It was about a $600 million office for them and really just learned a lot about the nuances of health care, provider contracting, commercialization of solutions, healthcare ecosystem. So it was really eye-opening for me. But I always knew I wanted to do something more entrepreneurial. That's where I was spending kind of my weekends and my evenings a lot of the time. So I was building a solution with a student from Northwestern and really kind of got a bug for that.

And then after Humana, I left to go to an early stage company in the diabetes space, which continued to grow and do incredibly well. And just I really enjoyed watching that founder, CEO, grow the company. And so I went there to help with commercialization and help. health plant partnerships and then really was interested in the digestive health space. That's where I knew I could have a bigger impact. And so that's really why we started Vivante was to help all those individuals who are suffering from chronic GI conditions.

Very, very cool. I could definitely relate to like your early moving your career to Humana and through, you know, getting an opportunity to experience different functions. I had a large strategic. I had that same opportunity at Kibidion. And it's oftentimes, I emphasize that with other, other, like, younger folks in their career, like, don't, you may feel kind of, you know, frustrated by the kind of the bureaucracy, the slow-moving nature of a large organization like that.

But if you take advantage, if you're proactive about it in your career, there's, there's, like, so many learning opportunities, right? And so it's like, you know, don't let the frustration get the better of you, you know, be proactive about those experiences because they're oftentimes, you know, invaluable, especially considering kind of what you're doing now, understanding, like, how, an organization like Humana or any other payer for that example. How this stuff gets paid for, right? Really, really matters, you know, in today's self-care environment.

So I'm sure, I'm sure, yeah, you're not in your head as you're listening as I'm riffing here. But yeah, yeah, I can imagine that's extremely valuable to what you're building at Vivante. So with that said, your core technology, GI thrive. Tell us a little bit kind of what it is, like what you're trying to do. And maybe like let's friend that up as if I'm a freshman or soft. sophomore in high school. I really am not familiar with the space. Kind of give me a high level overview. Yeah, absolutely. So at Vivante, our mission is to revolutionize digital health

gut first. So we work with individuals who suffer from chronic digestive conditions and the related symptoms. And that chronic digestive bucket is massive. And so that includes things like ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease, irritable bowel syndrome, GERD, and a whole host of other conditions and symptoms that are associated with GI conditions. So for me, personally, I saw family members and loved ones struggle from these conditions throughout their entire lives. And so I know what the patient experience is like for somebody who suffers from these. And so typically, you're going to start by having some symptoms.

That might be nausea. It might be bloating. It might be chronic constipation. And oftentimes people don't know where to go. And so in this day and age, what they're doing is they're Googling, they're trying to find a solution, they're trying to figure out what to do. Maybe they're taking over-the-counter medication to try and get those symptoms that symptom relief. And then at some point, they tend to say, okay, it's time for me to go see a

provider. And they don't even know what type of provider go to. Do they go to their primary care position? Do they go to a specialist? So maybe they go see a provider. And the providers who are doing great work have limited time. And so oftentimes they can only see the patient for a short stint. And maybe they refer them onto a specialist. Maybe that specialist has limited time. And they're still difficult conditions to diagnose. And so oftentimes they're putting on, maybe they're prescribed to high-cost biologic, or maybe they go through an invasive scope that they may not need. But oftentimes they go through all that process and still don't have relief. They're still having those symptoms and they don't really know where to turn.

So it's a unique set of conditions because there is no specific biomarker. There's no one test. There's no easy diagnosis. And you couple that with the fact that when you're talking about GI conditions, unfortunately, there's stigma associated with those conditions as well. It's not easy to talk about. and people aren't really excited to talk about what's going on in the bathroom. And so that leads to feelings of isolation. It leads to increased stress, increase anxiety, feelings of loneliness. And so that's

the patient experience with a lot of these GI conditions. So kind of the three things, right, very difficult to diagnose. People incur a lot of costs and a lot of pain going through that process. And people feel alone and isolated. So at Vivante, we said, hey, we really want to change the way this care is delivered. And so we've developed a platform. where individuals can come in. We do a quick clinical intake. When I say come in, they go through our app or our web platform. So it's fully remote, fully virtual. And we ask them some clinical questions about what they're experiencing. And we do two things with that information. First, we identify the risk of the patient. And then we build an evidence-based clinical pathway

that is personalized based upon their condition and or symptom. And then we help connect them to our care team, which is made up with health coaches, registered dietitians, gastroenterologists, and internal medicine specialists so that we can create this personalized experience to decrease their symptoms and get them feeling better. That's a really, really thoughtful overview. I can tell you that you explain that a number of times, right, to other folks like me. But this whole area of like GI health, like I can totally relate, because my mom spent her entire career almost as a nurse within kind of the GI function, mostly doing scope procedures like you mentioned. So I have a, you know, I have a certain, you know, I kind of grew up around that, right, like kind of hearing about these stories. And then

interesting enough, one of the companies I previously found it called Juve, even though we grew the backs of that company, actually we grew that company really more positioned as a kind of a health and anti-aging sort of longevity kind of like therapy, if you will, a lot of our early adopters were people that suffered from autoimmune diseases, specifically like gut, and had gut-related issues. You know, so it's like it speaks to what you just mentioned, like really difficult, not only to diagnose, but like not great solutions out there. there, right? In terms of, you know, drugs, biologics, devices, etc. So, yeah, I can, I'm definitely tracking with you. I imagine there's a lot of people listening to this that are probably like,

yeah, I know, I know a few, I know a few folks in my network that have had some similar issues. 100% Scott. I think the big thing, too, just like you said, I mean, one in four Americans suffer from a chronic digestive condition, which is crazy because when you think about that in terms of scope, I mean, that's one of the reasons that we built this is it's a massive problem. And there's so many people that are suffering and so many suffering and silence. because they don't know where to go. So you're absolutely right. Everyone has a loved one, a friend that's gone through this, if not they themselves.

Yep, no doubt. And we'll get into kind of the journey of, you know, and what you've been through kind of building the company today. But for everyone listening, Vivantehealth.com is the website. So V-I-V-A-N-T-E-Halth.com, Vivantehealth.com. We'll link to it in the full kind of write-up on MedSider as well as well as Bill's LinkedIn profile as well. But if you don't get to it, that's the website.

we can learn a little bit more about this program because who knows? I mean, you may, you may be, you know, kind of suffering from one of these, one of these issues that Bill just referenced as well, these GI related issues. So with that said, before we kind of step inside the old tie machine and kind of, you know, go back and learn about the past handful of years or so, you know, building, building the Vante. Give us a sense for kind of where the company's at. I mean, you're in full scale commercialization. It looks like it partnered with, I know, some larger, you know, plans and employers. So, yeah, give us a high level sense that kind of where where the company's at. Yeah, absolutely. So we're, we're really fortunate. We're,

we're seeing a tremendous amount of growth. The first thing that we focus on is member outcomes and we've been impacting members across the country. We're a B2B2C model. So we sell through large self-funded employers and health plans. And we're over 100 employees. We did our series B in funding last year. And we're definitely at that growth stage where we're just continuing to impact more and more lines across the country, which is super exciting. Because we get to hear that patient experience and see those improved clinical outcomes in every state, which is really exciting for me and the team. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it kind of be at that at full, scaling up and seeing, seeing like what you've built, like impact probably a lot of people

in a positive way. It's got to be got to be pretty, pretty fun to experience. Before, I guess we go, we go too deep. Just if someone is interested, right, I mean, this, this, this, this, this, this, Monsiders primarily meant for like to educate other, you know, founders, CEOs, leader, you know, people in leaderships across, you know, med tech, digital health, et cetera. But I got to think, again, there's a lot of people. You just mentioned that stat, like one of one in four Americans, like suffer from some sort of GI-related disease. If I'm listening to this and like, that actually sounds pretty interesting for myself or maybe a friend or a family member, is this, is this like generally covered by insurance then? I mean, if I, if I have like a plan

with Blue Cross or United or whatever, is it, is it in a lot of scenarios, you know, covered and reimbursed? So today on the individual plans, we're working on that. But to date, It's mostly focused on the jumbo employers and jumbo commercial space even with the plans. So I would say for anyone listening, if you are working with your plan and you want to say, hey, I just learned about this great organization that I would love to have their benefit covered, we'll talk to any health plan. And we're seeing the health plan has been great. They've been great partners to us.

And that's where we're seeing a ton of traction, a ton of interest. And so I think that that's only going to continue to mature. So our definitely long-term plan will be available to people on the individual level, through their plan sponsor. But today it's a little bit more targeted towards those larger employers. Okay, got it. And if I go to Vante Health,

is there like a list of like employers on the site? I guess I didn't even look. I probably should have that word. We do. Okay, you do. Okay. We do have most of them, not at all. Okay.

So, but you can always check with us. And again, if you're at a large employer, you say I'd like to even recommend this just to my employer. You know, we're happy to help supply information and get on a call with the employer as well. Cool. Cool. Sounds good.

Well, there you go. if you're listening to this and interested and, you know, reach out to maybe your, your, your, your HR folks at your organization to see, or reach out to the Vavante team to see if, if, if, if, if, if this is covered. So with that said, let's let's, let's maybe spend the next, you know, 20, maybe 30 minutes or so, kind of going back in time and learning, learning really like how you built this company and are experiencing the success because you just mentioned that series B rays of, I think it was 30, what was it, 31 million or so, something like that.

That's no easy feat. I mean, it's, you know, kudos to you for getting that done. I mean, there's not just a lot of companies in general in healthcare that are, you know, knocking off those types of milestones. But the first question I've got for you is I have a hunch, and I'm probably pretty right, that like the GI Thrive program as it stands right now is looks a lot different as more refined than, you know, what it was obviously when you first started the company, but even in the early years. So give us a sense kind of for like looking back and thinking about kind of the evolution of the program from sort of an alpha stage to a beta stage, et cetera. like what were maybe some key things that you picked up on kind of during that time developing, developing the program to where it's at today? Yeah.

So it's a good question. I'd say the number one biggest thing that I've learned is the importance of integrating within the healthcare ecosystem. So for digital health companies, I think that you see a lot of great products come to market, great solutions. But if there's not an understanding of where you fit within that health care ecosystem, it can be really trying for founders. and CEOs. So I think that's probably the biggest point that I always bring up is the ability to

understand how do you interact, how do you keep a focus on the member and the patient, but then think about how do you interact then with the plan, with the other providers, with the other digital solutions that the member might be working with today. So I think that that's really key. And then I think the second piece that I always talk about is when we think about product innovation is just staying connected to your members, thinking about what is it that we're missing. We take product feedback really seriously. We're always talking to our members and trying to gain information in terms of what more could we be doing for them and what are we not thinking about. And that really informs how we build our product, is listening to those members and thinking about

where we see those gaps in care that we can help close today. That's really good feedback. And especially like circling back around your first point about like just understanding like where you fit within the healthcare ecosystem. I'm sure you, you know, just being connected to other entrepreneurs, you probably see and hear about like a fair number of like actually really, really good ideas that could make a lot of sense, but you take a step back and you're like, I don't know, I'm not entirely sure like how this fits into workflow, how this displaces an existing kind of way of treating a patient or whatever. And so, so important to kind of understand that from the outset of like, hey,

it could be a really good idea. But if it's, if it's going to be, if there's going to be a ton of friction just to understand kind of where you even fit, that's, that's going to be a bit of a tough road to haul, you know? Definitely. It's not a big problem. If you're not impacting a lot of people and improving something significantly that you can point to, it's really difficult to break in. Yeah.

Yeah, no doubt. Especially, you know, I mean, for those listening, if you're, if you're pitching your idea, right, regardless of who the audience is and you're, and it's a struggle to sort of connect the dots for that person, that, I mean, I always look as a signal, right? I mean, I think you'd probably take a step back. And it could be, you know, the product or the idea of whatever you're working on, but it also could be just how you're the story around how you're like, you know, what you're telling and kind of what you're doing.

But the idea of like not not struggling, right, to connect the dots for someone, I think is really important. But Bill, your other point about like just being close to the customer, it's interesting. I was I was chatting about this with like, it was maybe, I don't know, three, four weeks ago with one of our advisors at Fastwave. And we were talking about this company that, you know, did exceptionally well, recently exited for a very large number. And I was like, what did you, I always hear good, I always heard good things about that senior leadership team. I was like, what did they, what were they doing right? Like, what did you notice as a, as a physician?

And he was like, the one thing that I always, that always stood out to me was the CEO. And this is, this is a publicly traded company at the time that's egg going to do another, another publicly traded company. And he was like, the CEO, despite how big the organization was getting, always made a point of like on a monthly basis going out like in the, in the field, right? And kind of being in the trenches, like with the customers. And that sounds kind of so basic, but like, I mean, you probably know a lot of, a lot of, you know, a lot of C-suite kind of founders, CEOs that just get out of that habit. And it's like, man, that's, it's such a forcing yourself to kind of get, get in the weeds,

you know, so, so critical, you know. Definitely. It's, it's a contact sport, you know, it's out on the road. It's 100%. I mean, like, I am always, it's, it's a lot of flights and a lot of traveling all over. and that's important. That's where, that's where, that's what helps me think about the next stage of the business is when I'm coming out of meetings talking to three partners, talking to members,

talking to clients. That's what really helps me say, okay, this is what's next. This is where we need to go. Yeah. So, yeah, I think I totally agree. We've got to be out meeting with folks and getting that feedback on an ongoing basis. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, it is, it is one of the things.

I mean, all of us get so busy, right, with whatever we're doing, some sort of next project, next initiative, etc but like if i know it's always a good idea to kind of reflect back at the end of the quarter would be like how much time i've actually spent like with my end users right with with you know sort of to your point you know you know in the in the in the in the contact sport making making contact right so such a good point but um let's let's talk a little bit about um and we touched out a little bit like the the model with vivante you know and how you're how you've been able to collaborate and build relationships with with employers i think um and i can't remember the name of the company. But I had a couple entrepreneurs on. It was probably maybe a year ago or so where you're

talking about how they were working on this new device that was really, it was really compelling, but it wasn't covered and reimbursed yet. So they were actually having, they were getting more traction going direct to employers, right? So you guys have obviously done a phenomenal job there. I'm sure your experience, you know, your, you know, broad experience that you may have probably had something to do with this. But give us a sense for kind of how, if someone's listening to this and they're like, I, I want to go in that direction that makes all the sense of the world. how do I even go about it? Like what would you kind of advise them on how do they even start kind of beginning to work

with employers and maybe even health plans for that matter? Yeah. I think, so I do think going back to that idea, there's a lot of really interesting and valuable products that I think are being built, but sometimes they don't understand that health care ecosystem. They don't understand kind of the purchasing journey and the partnership journey. And so my big recommendation would be learn from those around you,

leverage peer network. work or hire those individuals. If you don't have that core expertise, it's really important to understand how that works because it's intricate. And you've seen big organizations try and get into health care. You've seen the headlines of people saying, we're going to change health care. And they've tried and they're like, whoa, this is really hard and really unique. And so I do think that there's a lot of value. It's great to have the fresh entrepreneurial, hey, let's come in and see what we can do here. But I think you also need to have those partners. who understand the ecosystem well and understand what reimbursement looks like.

You also need to make sure if you're not a clinical founder that you have a really strong clinical team because for us, you know, patient safety is number one. That's paramount. And I think that we've seen organizations out there that don't take that seriously enough. And for us, that's something that we don't bend on. And so that's always my advice is make sure you've got a really strong clinical team around you to set those clinical protocols to make sure that patient safety is paramount. And then number two, think about that.

ecosystem, learn from your network, bring people in who understand it, because that is so key to being able to commercialize and grow in this space. Got it. Got it. Yeah. So, so important, right? Just to, again, kind of to your point earlier about just sort of getting in the weeds, right, making contact.

But in this case, it's like, you know, making contact with employers' health plans to kind of understand, you know, what's valuable to them, right? How are they thinking about these decisions and whether to adopt a certain solution, you know, like GI Thrive or any other, you know, treatment modality for that matter. Absolutely. And like there's different business spaces, right? When you think about a health plan, you've got the commercial population. In that, you've got fully insured.

You've got self-funded. You've got Medicare Advantage. You've got dual eligible. So there's all different roles and regulations. There's all the, there's different things that you can do. There's different things that they're looking for in those different populations. So for people to really understand that is pretty important if you're really looking to go into digital health and distribute in that way if you're looking for partners with

self-funded employers and health plans. You really need to know that business. Yeah. And your success kind of working with directly with employers, do you see that as a trend that's only going to continue, right? Whether it's a digital health solution, whether it's a hardware kind of, you know, traditional device-based solution. Do you see kind of this idea of working more directly with employers?

We're only moving closer to that sort of environment? I think so. I think that there's a lot of really innovative employers out there that are really dedicated to creating benefits for their team members that are super attractive that help with lowering the cost of health care, but also improving productivity, well-being. And so I think that that will always be there. And it's great because you have these innovative benefits leaders and total rewards leaders that are looking at the market and that are saying, hey, we really want to have an impact for our employees, which has been phenomenal. I also think there's a lot of things coming into market. And so they have a, they wear a lot of hats. They've got a lot on their shoulders.

And so they are getting some point fatigue. And so I think it's important, again, going back to the ecosystem, you know, we've got great partnerships where we can say, hey, we'll make it easy for you. We know how to integrate into your benefits ecosystem today. Let's make it simple. And that's something that's really key is making it simple for those leaders because they do a lot of those organization. So I do think it will continue, but my message to entrepreneurs is always think about how much work they have on their plate and make it as simple as possible, help them make that decision for their employees. Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. It reminds me of, I was listening to a podcast recently with Justin Klein, who's a, he's an MD by background, but he's a, he's one of the founders

and managing directors at Vincana, which is a med tech, I think they primarily invest in MedTech, but pretty well-known venture capital firm. And I can't remember what, podcast that he was on, but he was talking about this issue, and it was more so specific to devices, but I think it applies, where you've got these really novel solutions, right? Whether it's a digital health solution or a device. And, you know, there's mechanisms in place with like breakthrough device designation as an example to take advantage of like early coverage and reimbursement with Medicare. But the reality that the problem is that you still got a lot of innovative solutions that are being developed. And like at the end of sort of the road, when FDA puts their

stamp of approval on it or whatever, and you're ready to kind of like, you know, help people get access to this technology. No one's going to pay for it, right? And they had this interesting, interesting conversation, but it reminded me of what you just mentioned, like one avenue, if you're listening to this, one avenue may be, you know, go directly to employers, right? If it's a novel technology that their employees would really benefit from, that's, that's a, that's an avenue to potentially pursue. But I think the important point is like, how do you, how do you make it as easy as possible for them to, you know, adopt? You know, that's so, so crucial.

Absolutely, Scott. And I think like the two things that I think about is like show clinical outcomes and cost savings at scale. Number one, if you can go out and show them, hey, we're going to take costs out of the system for you. We're going to get your members feeling better. And then two is that ease of integration. We know how to do it. We're going to take the work off your plate. We've got a team that can help educate the members about the availability of this and show them there's this great benefit that that is going to get them feeling better and is going to reduce their health care costs as well as the plan sponsor. It's those two things that I think. really win the day when it comes to working with with employers and all that's yeah yeah it's got got there's got to be some sort of economic component to it right i mean like two two crucial factors but but surprisingly again a lot of it's just good to reemphasize i think that i'm with other other other folks that are listening is like you've got to be yes entry into the games like your thing has to work right it has to solve a need in a in a compelling way hopefully and it's got be efficacious but like if you're not ignoring if you're ignoring like the economic component of that that's a huge, huge miss, you know.

But on that, let's talk, let's talk a little bit about kind of your approach to, to sort of demonstrating the benefit of GI thrive and your solution. Because I think some people that are listening to this that maybe even come from like pure play and that tech would be like, oh, it's a digital health platform. You don't have to care as much about clinical data. But obviously, you obviously took a much different approach and you're substantiating

your solution with a lot of clinical evidence. So how have you kind of, maybe let's start with like why you think that's important. And then two, like how have you kind of gone about kind of like building out that, you know, that kind of clinical strategy. Hey there, it's Scott. And thanks for listening in so far. The rest of this conversation is only available via our private podcast for MedSider Premium Members. If you're not a premium member yet, you should definitely consider signing up. You'll get full access to the entire library of interviews dating back to 2010.

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