Megalithic Marvels - Ancient Enochian Entities / Derek Gilbert

Episode Date: July 17, 2024

In this exclusive interview, I sit down with researcher, explorer, host of "A View from the Bunker," and author of many books including "Veneration," "The Second Coming of Saturn," and "Giants, Gods and Dragons" - Derek Gilbert. From his decades of deep research into ancient texts, the book of Enoch and Genesis chapter six, Derek takes us on an enigmatic journey back in time to the days of old where the gods mingled with men. Why does every ancient culture on earth have legends and oral traditions that whisper of this "golden age" of hybrids? And who really were "The Watchers" and the "Nephilim" as referenced in the book of Enoch, Genesis chapter six and many other scriptures of the Bible? Is there any archaeological evidence that can be found on planet earth that corroborates the reign of these hybrids? Derek Gilbert breaks it all down in this must see episode. Follow Derek & buy his books here

Stargate Voyager. Well, I am really excited to have researcher, explorer, and host of Skywatch TV's 10 and 5 program, as well as author and co-author of several books, including The Great Inception, Last Clash of the Titans, Giants, Guardians and Dragons, veneration, and the book I've been reading now, the second coming of Saturn, incredible book, among many others. I'm pleased to have Derek Gilbert on the program. you so much for making the time to join me today. Derek, it's an it's an honor for a couple of reasons. I've been following you on social media. Your Megalytic Marvel's channel on X, formerly Twitter,

is always fascinating. So, and I got to say this, the first time I've ever been interviewed by another Derek. So that is another point in your favor. And I always like a Derek who spells it the right way, D-E-R-E-K. So Derek and Derek, this is fun. Well, yeah, I've been following you for years. I was telling you going back to at least 2015. when I stumbled upon Skywatch TV and then seeing some of your explorations in Israel and around the world and really fascinated.

So there's so much I want to ask you about. Definitely want to ask you about your book, The Second Coming of Saturn. I want to ask you about all things, The Watchers, Book of Enoch, Nephilim. I want to even get into some of the archaeological sites that you have been investigating in and around Israel, the Wheel of the Giants,

some of these serpent mounds, But let's start with, for those who may be new to this topic, Genesis 6 and the Bible and the Book of Enoch and this whole discussion about the watchers, the Nephilim, the giants. Can you give us like a 30,000 foot view, just a couple bullet points, a snapshot to set a foundation and then we'll take it deeper from there? Basically, it's this. Over the last hundred years or so, scholars, Bible scholars, and when you say that, that doesn't necessarily mean that they believe in the Bible. but they are scholars who focus their research onto that text. For the last hundred years or so, they have come to a consensus that Genesis 6 versus 1 through 4 describes as a very strange incident in the distant past

where supernatural beings called Sons of God, in Hebrew, Beneha Elohim, came to earth and co-mingled with human women and produced a hybrid race of giants, referred to in Hebrew as, Nephilim, later known in the Hebrew Bible as Refayim. Essentially, the way to think about this is that in the pre-flood era, they were Nephilim after the flood where they died and their spirits remained on earth, they became Refaheim. Although there were some tribes that were described as Refaheim in the time of Moses, and maybe we'll get to that. But what they have likewise discovered over

the last hundred years or so, that the Hebrews did not invent this story in isolation. They did not create this in a vacuum. The story in the Bible is very similar to accounts from Mesopotamian literature, from Canaanite literature, from Hurrian and Hittite texts from Greek and Roman, and when you start tracing them backward, you realize that they appear to have a singular source. Greco-Roman religion, for example, which scholars for many years assumed came from a hypothesized proto-Indo-European source, which has never been to because it's prehistoric and so they're trying to reconstruct a language that has no writing and reconstruct a mythology then for which there is no written record

but what they've discovered since about the 1940s is that the earliest versions of these stories in in Greek for example the creation of the world by Oranos and Gaia the birth of the giant gods called the Titans led by Kronos who were then overthrown by the Olympians led by Zeus that same same story shows up in Roman as, you know, Saturn being overthrown by Jupiter. You start tracing it backward. You find the same story in other religions going further and further east. And the oldest appears to be the Hurrians who are in the Bible as the Horrites,

where their father god Kumarbi, who overthrew the sky god Anu and castrated him, just as Kronos and Saturn castrated Oranos and Kalas is the sky god in the world. Roman religion, they appear to be the oldest version of this story. And you see, again, in Mesopotamia, where Marduk replaces N-Lill, Bail replaces L in the Canaanite religion. It's the same pattern over and over, Thor taking over for Oden in the Norse religion. Indra, the storm god like Bail, like Jupiter, like Zeus, taking over as king of the ancient Sanskrit pantheon.

It's the same story over and over again, which suggests a common source. Skeptics will say because the oldest text of the Bible are not dated to about 1400 BC, and that's assuming that Moses wrote it down, there are many scholars who don't think that that's the case. But giving the benefit of the doubt to the Hebrews, 1400 BC for the Bible and the Mesopotamian texts are considerably older. So the claim is that the Hebrews got their religion from Mesopotamia, ignoring the fact that the Hebrew God, Yahweh, the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, is fundamentally different from the old gods, the creator

gods of Mesopotamia, of the Hurrians, the northern, the people who lived in the northern edges of Mesopotamia, the Greeks and the Romans, and so on. So the bottom line is this. There's a lot of overlap between what we were taught in school as mythology

and what is in the Hebrew Bible. And the research that my wife and I have been doing for the last eight years or so is focused on finding those points of correlation and trying to pull on those threads to untangle the mystery. Yeah, as you travel the world, all of these ancient cultures and civilizations have all these common threads of ancient floods and cataclysms in this golden age and these titans or these demigods, these giants that, you know, that mingled with a man. And so

it's so fascinating. So we're really excited to get into this with you. So, yeah, you've put out a number of books. One of your newest here, again, the second coming of Saturn. You hit on a lot of these topics that go into the ancient world. There's so many nuggets you pull out of this book. You talk about how, I'll just rattle off a couple of them, and then you can just run with it. You talk about how, what the Bible describes as Lucifer, you believe is not actually Satan, that Lucifer was what was known as the God Saturn. And Saturn was actually the leader of the rebellious sons of God, whom the book of Enoch calls Shemiyazha, I believe you pronounce it.

And so you go in your book to all the different names attributed to the Roman god's Saturn over like a 6,000-year span. As you mentioned, the Greeks called it chronos. Hebrews called it Molek even, but it was the same entity. And you even pull out how new research, archaeological evidence is pulling out that, you know, the cult of Saturn and these fallen angels goes back to even places in Eirat, kind of near where the ark rested. So tell us a little bit about Saturn and who it really was and I guess more about the watchers and what the book of Enoch describes and where they descended. It was well known to the Greek and Roman writers that Saturn and Kronos were the same entity, and the Phoenicians like Carthage, the Phoenicians who settle at Carthage in North Africa,

also settled on the islands of Sardinia and Sicily, southern coast of Spain. Their god was called Bail Haman, not to be confused with Bail of the Bible, Bail a storm god, different entity. Bail Haman was equated with L, who was the father of Bail in the Canaan religion. So it was very easy to connect those entities and other writings from the ancient world, what they call lexical lists. Scribes in the ancient world would put together lists of names and words in various languages. So it's sort of like the, you know, the clay tablet version of Google Translate with the names of the gods in Hurrian next to the names of the gods

in Canaanite next to the names of the gods in Acadian and so on. So they know who they were talking to or had to include in the treaty to witness the treaty and so forth. So we know that L of the Canaanites who was equated with Dagon of the Philistines and Enlil of the Acadians or El Lill of the Akadians was the same entity as Bail Haman and Saturn Kronos. So now we're starting to see a whole number of names all fit together to this same entity. The Assyrians called this entity Asher, which is a little confusing. because Asher was also the name or the word in Hebrew for the nation of Assyria and also their capital city.

So if to look at context, when Asher shows up, does it mean Assyria? Does it mean their chief god? Does it mean their capital city? You've got to look at context. Going back further, this same entity was known by the Hurrians who came from the north of Mesopotamia as Kumarbi. And again, this is probably the oldest iteration of this particular entity. But with all of these entities, there are some consistent threads to this story. They were all at one point the king of the pantheon who had overthrown the sky god and in some cases castrated the sky god to boot.

Then in turn replaced or overthrown by the storm god and then was connected to the netherworld, either banished there or just demoted to become a judge in the netherworld. and most of these entities were connected to human sacrifice and specifically child sacrifice as in the case of Baal Hamon Molek of course in the Hebrew Bible but also Kronos of the Greeks I mean one of his nickname was Kronos

Technophagos which means chronos child eater so this is not a nice entity but it occurred to me as I was trying to figure out what had happened back in Genesis chapter 6 that whole story of supernatural beings who came to earth and created giants, who then posed an existential threat to humanity called the Nephalim,

what happened to the leader of that rebellion? In the book of First Enic, he is named Shemiyazza, which is a Hebrew name that essentially means the name, referring to the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Hashem. To this day, that's how Jews refer to Yahweh. They just say Hashem, the name. The name has seen. which unfortunately for Shemiyazha the name did see what he did and for that he was punished and sent down to the netherworld

according to second peter two verse four there's a reference there and also in jude these short epistle of jude verses six and seven they both refer to angels who sinned and in the context of those verses it's clear that their sin is a sexual sin jude in fact likens it to the sin of sodom and gomorrah who likewise went after strange flesh. These entities crossed the species barrier, which apparently was just as forbidden as humans having Congress with animals. And so because of this, according to Peter and Jude, they are in chains in gloomy darkness until the judgment. In fact, Peter, specifically in 2, verse 4, says, God thrust them down to hell is the word in our English Bibles, but the word in Greek is Tartorosis, which literally means thrust down to Tartarus, not Hades.

And living in a world dominated by Greek thought religion language for several centuries, Peter surely knew that Tartarus in Greek religion was a place believed to be as far below Hades as the earth was below heaven. This was a special place reserved for supernatural rebels who needed to be punished. just as in the Greek religion, the Titans who were overthrown by Zeus and the Olympians were banished to Tartarus. And then there were other entities down there as well.

The 100-Handers and Typhon, the Chaos Monster, also sent down to Tartarus. So the Bible tells us there are supernatural entities confined to Tartarus. And in the context of 2 Peter 2 and Jude 6 and 7, it's clear that those sinful angels who are now chained in the abyss committed a sexual sin.

Well, that can only refer to Genesis Chapter 6 versus 1 through 4. So I don't think it's going too far out on a limb to say that the Titans of Greek mythology are those sons of God from Genesis chapter 6. It's just the Bible takes a very different view of that whole incident than the Greeks did.

And interestingly, this story also shows up in Mesopotamia, where a group of supernatural beings called the Apcalu, in an Acadian that roughly translates as big waterman because they came from the Apso, the abyss, which was the domain of the God Enki, Lord of the Apsu.

He sent forth the Apcalu to bring the gifts of civilization to humanity. Well, that's kind of similar to what we read in the book of First Enic, which kind of expands on the short four verses in Genesis chapter 6 and explains that their sin was not just commingling with humanity and corrupting the human bloodline, but teaching us things that we weren't supposed to know. In fact, when you read the book of First Enix, those first 36 chapters called the Book of the Watchers,

it explains that Shemayaza, the leader, the chief of the watchers, who descended 200 in all to the summit of Mount Hermon, which, by the way, in Hebrew derives from a word that means forbidden, as in this is so forbidden that if you touch it, you die. The Hebrew word is Herem. Mount Hermon, these entities led by Shemiyazah, their chief, but another one of their number, a number of them are named, but a number one is who singled out for special punishment is Azazel,

or Azazel, depending on how it's translated, but Azazel apparently taught humanity things that we weren't supposed to know, like how to make weapons, metalworking, for the sake of making weapons and armor, and witchcraft, sorcery, the cutting of rea, the telling of fortunes, the making of makeup for the purpose of seduction, things like that. So because he taught us things we weren't supposed to know, he was set apart for special punishment, just like Shemiyazha.

So it's very much like the story of Prometheus in the Greek mythologies, where he stole sacred fire from Olympus and brought it to humanity. And for this was chained on a rock and Tartarus where an eagle would eat his liver. by day, every night it would grow back, and the next day he would have to go through the same torture over and over for eternity. So I don't think it's a coincidence that those stories are that similar. But the Apcalo in Mesopotamian religion were sometimes considered good, sometimes considered evil. They did bring things that we humans found useful like witchcraft. The Mesopotamians had a different view of witchcraft than the Jews did, the Hebrews.

And there is a Babylonian text called the Epic of Era, E-R-R-A, in which the chief god Marduk recalls once losing his temper and sending a massive flood that covered the earth and then afterwards sending the Apalu to the Abyss and telling them never to return. Same thing that happened to the Titans, same thing that happened to the Sons of God from Genesis chapter 6. So we've got this overlap.

And again, even in the hurry in religion, the story of Kumarbi, who was overthrown and replaced by his son, the storm god Teshub. He is now one of the former gods who is in the underworld locked in behind brass bars and only allowed out one time a year. It's actually a precursor of the Saturnalia. Again, Kumarby and Saturn being the same entity by different names, just Kumarby being the much older iteration. So there's so much overlap here that when you step back and look at 30,000 foot view,

because if you start getting up close, the details begin to differ. It's like trying to make out an image in a newspaper. When you're looking out all the dots on the printed page, you get too close. All you can see are a bunch of dots. But when you step back, you can see the picture. When you step back and look at the comparisons between the Hurrian religion, the Hittite religion,

the Acadian, the Sumerian, the Babylonian, the Canaanite, the Greek, the Roman, there are so many parallels that it's not coincidental. And again, the Bible reflects this, especially when you start digging into the Hebrew and get past the bias that many Christians, many Christian theologians have had for centuries, that other than the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and maybe Satan, there really aren't any other supernatural entities in the cosmos to be concerned with. So fascinating. So much you said there we could unpack. I like how you reminded us that what Genesis 6 mentions in passing in just a few verses, and let me just read that real quick. It says Genesis 6, 4, there were giants on the earth in those days and also afterward when the sons of God, or these angels, came into the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who are of old, men of renown. And that's speaking of the, this hybrid giant race. So you've got Genesis 6'4 and several other scriptures like Numbers 13 talking about these giants, but then you've got the book of, like you said, first Enoch, really unpacking this in detail, how these 200 watcher class rebellious angels descend onto Mount Hermon.

And basically, they appear to have taken on some kind of form. Wouldn't you agree? than enable them to have sexual relations. And so tell us about that and then tell us about what is it about Mount Hermon. Is that some kind of Stargate portal up there on the top of the mountain? Well, that's a really good question. Sharon and I have a book coming out in the fall called The Gates of Hell, and we kind of explore that idea, both the existence of physical portals

and, of course, Mount Hermon being one of the most important because that's where Jesus declared his divinity, both at the base of the mountain at the grotto of Pan, Cessaria Philippi, but also on the mountain itself, six days after he declared that, hey, Simon, Peter, you're right. I am the son of man, the son of the living God. Don't tell anybody, because my time is not yet,

but then he takes Peter, James, and John, up the mountain, a very high mountain, which in that region, the only very high mountain near Cessaria Philippi is Mount Hermann. So Jesus could have, and this is one of the reasons, that I look at this as relevant to Christian theology. A lot of Christians will look at this stuff and say, well, this is all fringe. Shouldn't this be all about Jesus?

Well, yeah, but this was important to Jesus because Cesarea Philippi is about a 14-hour walk from Jesus' home in Capernaum, which is on the north shore of the Sea of Galilee. So when you read the gospel accounts of where Jesus was and the timeline, he went to Tyre and Sedone, which are on the Mediterranean coast in Lebanon. And then he returned to his base at Kaepernam.

Now that road from Tyre runs right past Cesarea Philippi. And he could have stopped there and said, hey, while we're in the neighborhood, let's go over here to this pagan cult center with a temple to Caesar Augustus and a temple to Jupiter and a temple to, you know, a number of other gods, temple to Pan, the goat demon. Let's go there and I can do this thing. No, he goes back to the Sea of Galilee first, and he casts out a bunch of demons. He feeds the 4,000, which is a separate event from the feeding of the 5,000.

So, like, two separate miracles there of feeding multitudes with a couple of loaves and some fish. And then he walks back, the walk there, the trip, the 30-mile hike, was a special trip from his home base to this pagan cult center. So Jesus called special attention to it, and then again, climbed the mountain for the Transfiguration. to declare his divinity essentially into the spirit realm. So, yeah, there was something special about Mount Hermann. In fact, this was known 2,000 years almost before the time of Jesus. There's a text of the Epic of Gilgamesh called the Old Babylonian text, the old Babylonian period.

That's the time of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, roughly the 18th, 17th centuries, BC, 16th century BC. Hamerabi, the Great, the Great Lawgiver, probably a contemporary of Abraham. In that text, Gilgamesh and his friend Enkidu are, they go off on a quest to kill the monster named Humbaba, who's the guardian of the Cedar Forest. Well, that was located essentially on the slopes of Mount Hermann because after they killed this monster, they penetrate the Cedar Forest, the secret dwelling of the Anunaki. And here's another correlation between Mesopotamian or Sumerian religion and the Bible and also Greek religion.

The Anunaki were formerly the great gods of Sumer, who by the time of Abraham had been demoted to gods in the Netherworld. And this was connected to the location of Mount Hermann and the kingdom of Bashan, the region of Bashan, just south of Mount Hermann, which to the Canaanites was essentially known as the entrance to the Netherworld. Yeah. So I've been to Caesarea Philippi and seen this location, this famous location where Jesus is hanging out with the disciples and asks them who do people say am. And Jesus says, upon this rock, I will build my church, my house.

And the gates of hell will not prevail. And so you break down in your book in many places how this was literally known as the gates of hell. Again, this is at the base of Mount Hermon. But what's fascinating is when you go there, it appears so. ancient and you literally see the cutouts in the mountain and this huge cave that looks like it descends down into the earth where a waterfall once covered it, I believe. So I say that and then I point out how, you know, again, Genesis 6, the book of Enoch is mentioning how these fallen angels bred with humans created this hybrid race of giants. And then the book of Enoch

unpacks how even these rebellious angels were inseminating animals. And so it's almost like we've got Narnia, right? Like the Bible is describing, the book of Enoch is describing this ancient world where you have literal creatures. And I think of legends like the Bull of Minos or Minos on the island of Crete, this hybrid bull creature that was a child-consuming cannibal. like Molek. And so are you in agreement that the Bible is painting a pretty crazy Narnian-like world

that is so far beyond the mainstream version of, I would say, the boring Bible that most people have sadly been led to believe? Yeah, the little flannel-bored Christianity that most of us were exposed to in Sunday school. Yeah, that's why Sharon and I wrote the book, Giants, Gods, and Dragons, because the Bible calls them by those names. And when you start piecing together the clues and looking beyond the English translation, we've got to remember the Bible was not written in English,

and it was written to people who had an ancient near-eastern worldview. They understood that the world was a supernatural place. The Hebrew prophets, the apostles, they knew what their neighbors believed. And a lot of what's in the Bible is in response to that, polemics against that. So yeah, one of the things that I've done in a couple of books now is pointed out the bovid imagery connected to supernatural entities in the ancient world. In Sumer, you could always tell in their art who the gods were because they wore hats with multiple sets of horns.

The word Titan, a scholar by the name of Amar Anus, who's from Estonia, done some wonderful research on the watchers and the Mesopotamian. conception of the watchers, the Apcalo, pointed out that the word Titan actually derives from the name of an ancient Amorite tribe, the Tidano, which in turn, and the Tadano were known from texts going back to like 24, 2,500 B.C. That the Tadano derives its name, or their name, from the Acadian name for Orox, which is an ancient strain of cattle that were absolutely huge. were like six foot at the shoulder. So, you know, this idea of bovid imagery connected to supernatural entities is very, very old. In fact, the caribeme or cherubim in Ezekiel Chapter 1, which has been misidentified by many as, you know, the appearance of a UFO in the

Bible, you know, the wheels within wheels that Ezekiel saw. It actually was the Mesopotamian concept of a throne room where in fact you'll see this if you look up an image of the throne of King Tutankan it was common for the royal throne to have guardian animals or guardian creatures built into the throne and for the throne itself to be sitting on wheels now why wheels I don't know but in the in the Hebrew those wheels is what's the word it's Ophanim and the spirit of the living creatures the cherubim is in the wheel Now, how does that work?

I don't know. We're dealing with creatures that exist in more dimensions than we can perceive maybe. I don't know. But the point is that in Ezekiel chapter one, he describes him as having four faces. Human, lion, ox, eagle. Okay? Human lion, ox, eagle. But then in Ezekiel chapter 10, it's human lion bull eagle.

Or human lion cherub eagle, excuse me, human lion cherub eagle. So the connection there is that the cherubim were apparently bovied in appearance, like those giant human-headed, winged bull creatures that used to stand outside the palace of Nineveh in the kingdom of Assyria. We saw them at the British Museum when we were there a few years back, and I noticed for the first time, because I never noticed it in the pictures. You don't notice it until you're up close on those things. Those giant winged bulls with the bearded head on the human head on the front, they don't have hood. they've got lions paws so again lion human bull eagle it's the Assyrians essentially knew what the Cherobeme looked like and they were guarding the Assyrian king so what Ezekiel saw was not a UFO this was and again you've got these these massive

bull-like creatures guarding the throne of God what's really astonishing when you again start digging into what the prophets knew Ezekiel mentions in his book like eight times that this vision took place at the Kivar Canal and so with okay he mentions this eight times why is this important where was the Kivar canal it runs right through the city of Nipur which is in central Iraq today Nipur by the way in Sumerian is Nibiru so no it's not a planet with a 26,000 year orbit it was the city in which the temple of Enlil who was the father of all the Mesopotamian gods was located and once a year it was that all the gods of Mesopotamia would come to Nipur or Nibiru to the temple of the God

and Lill and decree the fates of the land. So what Ezekiel was describing was a vision of the throne room of the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob directly over the temple of the most prominent god of the Mesopotamians, and then revealing everything that was going to happen until the end of time. You know, the prophecies of Gog and Magog and the building of a future temple and all. Basically, it was like mic drop, you know, God appearing over the temple of the chief god of Mesopotamia and saying, here's what's going to happen, see if you can try and stop it. And Ezekiel's readers would have known exactly what he was describing.

In your book, yeah, you've got a photo of you standing in front of one of the giant. Is it Lamassu, I believe, is the word at the British Museum. This giant, Assyrian, it was in Nineveh of Assyria, and it was this winged creature. again, bodies of lions and human faces. But yeah, I like how in your book you are theorizing that is this some type of fallen cherubim, you know, that is on earth that was being deified? And that takes me to so many places in my mind back to ancient Egypt, the sphinx. And again, as you say, yeah, the sphinx-like appearance of it, but the bull of, the, the bull of, the minotaur

and in fact the name of Kronos, the king of the Titans, and again, Titan being a name that derives from the Akkadian word for bull, ultimately. Kronos comes from a Semitic word that Karnu, that means horns. So again, this bovid imagery

connected to deities, connected to spiritual, spirit beings, angels, if you will, is very old. It's probably where we get the idea that demons and devils have horns. So again, we've got these watchers descending, taking on form, these fallen angels, breeding with earth women. Their offspring are these Nephilim hybrid giants who are basically breeding out the pure bloods as time goes on, which is why the humans are going to war against them to try to stop this.

And then interesting, the flood narrative happens right after the Nephilim are introduced. It's like God is resetting the world. But then they come back. So you say how there was the Nephilim before the flood, then the Refiim were the spirits of the Nephilim destroyed in the flood. But the pagan cultures believed they were the spirits of their own deified ancestors. Mighty Men of Old, tell us about that a little bit. Yeah, that was one of the things that surprised me,

as I was digging into the Refayim, it just struck me as odd that this would even be in the Bible. I mean, you know, did Moses and the Israelites? And this is what a lot of scholars will say, well, they found all these megalithic structures in the Jordan Valley, the Dolmans, which are those, the simplest form, they're like a trillathon, two big vertical slabs of rock

with a tabletop across the top. Dolman is a Britonic word that means table because they look like tables, many of them. But there are other sites in the Golan, like Gilgill, Gal Gail Refayim. We found that there are three others that are very similar to Gilgul Refayem that hardly anybody knows about. One of them is on the shore of the bank of the Jordan River, about two miles north of the Sea of Galilee. Another one is in an IDF training facility. We're going to try to get there next time we can get back to Israel, but we'll need permission from the

IDF. There's a third one that's in a minefield. We're not going there. But apparently, These things have been there for probably near 6,000 years, based on the most recent excavation of Gilgal Refayim. Dr. Mike Freakman has challenged the consensus of earlier Israeli archaeologists who put these in the middle Bronze Age, late Bronze Age. He dates them no earlier than the early Bronze Age or even the Colchalithic, the Copper Age. So we're talking 3,500 BC and older on some of these oldest dolmens. And some of these are absolutely massive.

When we were there last March, we visited the Shamir Dolman Field, which has one with a 50-ton capstone. That tabletop stone weighs more than two fully loaded 18-wheel tractor trailers. And yet, somehow, 5,000 years ago, they managed to lever that stone up into place. Why would they do that? And the question is, what did Moses and the Israelites think about it? The Canaanites who lived there when Moses and the Israelites got there, what did they think about those things? Well, scholars will say, well, that's why they attributed stories of giants or created stories about giants to explain away these massive structures in the regions.

It's like, okay, I suppose. But the fact is you've got to figure out somehow, some way that they managed to get that 50-ton stone into place. Gilgal Raphaim has got they estimate between 40 and 65,000 tons of stone to compare. I mean, Stonehenge has only got about 2,000 tons. You got something was 30 times more stone got moved almost 4,000 BC to build this massive structure. Who was doing it? Who had a civilization that organized before writing and before the wheel? to build something like that.

So in trying to figure out what were the Refi'am, did Moses just invent this story to demonize, pardon the pun, the Canaanites so they could explain or justify their war of conquest? Come to find out that the Canaanites knew very well who the Refayem were, and in the Refayem religion, they were venerated as, as you say, they believe they're deified ancestors. And there are texts found from the Amarabyeh. kingdom of Egarit, which is in

northern Syria, near the border with Turkey right on the Mediterranean coast, destroyed during the period of the judges in the Bible, around 1,200 BC. It was what the scholars call the Bronze Age collapse, just the beginning of the Iron Age. And

these Refayim texts show that the Canaanites who lived in and around ancient Israel would summon these things through necromanic rituals. They would summon them, to bless the new king at his inauguration, if you will. They would summon them to escort the spirit of the recently deceased king to the netherworld,

where hopefully he would join the assembly of the Refayim. The assembly of the Refayem is even mentioned in the Bible, although it's translated into English as assembly of the dead. Because, again, this bias that the Refayem can't be real spirits. There's no such thing. So it just means the dead. now that's not how the Hebrew prophets saw it is certainly not how the Canaanites saw it there is a temple to the to a group of underworld spirits with that same name from which the

titans drew their name the council of the ditanu at this uh at this city of eugart so during the time of the judges around 1200 bc which is roughly the time of the the trojan war there were Canaanites who were venerating a group in the underworld, a group of underworld spirits that they called the Council of the, essentially the Council of the Titans, who were associated somehow with the Refayim. So this was part of the religion of the people displaced by Moses and the Israelites, and some of the Israelites went native and started adopting those practices,

which led to things like eating forbidden food, There are some scholars who think that the whole prohibition on eating pork derives from the fact that pigs were essentially usually slaughtered as sacrifices for the dead. And this is God saying, no, we're not going to do that. We do not honor the dead. In fact, in Psalm 106, verse 28, the psalmist, who was writing like 400 years after Moses and the Israelites arrived at the Jordan River,

there's a strange story in Numbers, the Book of Numbers, where Numbers 24, they began worshiping a Canaanite deity called Baal Peor, or the Lord of the Opening to the Netherworld. And there were rituals involved with this religion that I think you would politely call them fertility rights. But in Psalm 106, the author doesn't even mention that. He said it was eating sacrifices offered to the dead. that led God to get angry and sent a plague that killed 24,000 Israelites.

So this was a cult thing that the prophet Isaiah, 700 years after Moses, was still writing about. People who eat forbidden food amongst the tombs, eating pork and so on. Again, this was a practice that continued into the Christian era, this idea of summoning the ancestors. to a ritual meal so that they would not fade away into nothingness in the afterlife. This continued, even the earliest Christian churches in Rome, built after Constantine legalized the faith in the year 313 AD, were built in cemeteries so that Christians could still continue doing these rituals and bringing the ancestors, the spirits of the ancestors,

to this ritual practice that even though there'd been like 300 years of of the priests and the bishops of the cities, this new Christian faith, telling the followers, hey, look, we don't do this anymore. This is not how the spirit realm works anymore. We do not summon these spirits of the ancestors. They wouldn't stop doing it. So about 100 years later, in the early 5th century, Augustine, one of the great early church theologians, one who, by the way, is responsible in large,

part for doing away with the supernatural interpretation of Genesis chapter 6. Oh, those sons of God, those are the righteous sons of Seth, and they intermingled with the evil daughters of Cain, and that's where these evil giants came from. Augustine wrote that we could have the spirits of the righteous who have gone on before us. The saints intercede for us, and this is where the practice of

venerating the saints entered into Christian theology, which is still practiced in the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox churches. It came from the Canaanite practice of venerating the spirits of the Refayim, who the Hebrews knew and the early church knew were the spirits of the giants destroyed in the flood of Noah. Yeah, I don't think most people realize that there are giant dolmens in the Middle East, in the Israel area. I mean, people think of Dolmens. They think of, you know, the U.K., they think of domans even in Russia,

but dolmens in Israel, what? And then this Gilgal Raphaim site where there's this wheel of the giants. I saw one of your videos and some photos on that. That is just fascinating, this ancient structure out there with like a dolman in the center of it. I mean, these are ancient archaeological sites that give credence to the legends of the giants. And then I've even seen some photos. I don't know if it was by you or Hugh Newman, but these large serpent-like mounds,

kind of like you might see in Ohio. I was going to say, our friend Aaron Lipkin, has graciously allowed us to use some of his drone video, and we've shared some of that. We're, in fact, working on a video that we hope to have out this year about that. We will include this drone video.

But yes, a quarter of a mile from Gilgal Refayim is a feature on the landscape that scholars just call the El Arbaeen Ridge named for an old Arab village that was located at one end. But we refer to it as the serpent mound of Bashan. And it's three times longer, four times higher and much, much older than the serpent mound in Ohio. Let's talk about a couple of the most famous giants of the Bible. You've got obviously Goliath who led the Philistines. You've got Og King of Bashan. These guys were by our measurements considered pretty large. Then you've been a lot. Then you've

got legends like the legend of Gilgamesh, who was, you know, purportedly a possible giant. Tell us a little bit about these two giants. We did write about Gilg, or about Og and about Goliath. And I've actually changed my opinion a little bit on Goliath because the oldest Hebrew text about the height of Goliath, contrary to what we've got in the English Bible, which is six cubits in a span which is about nine foot six based on the standard 18 inch cubit the oldest Hebrew text put it at four cubits in a span which should only be about six foot six which is not or six foot eight which is not really you

know or six foot nine rather not really that big I mean NBA sized yeah you get a good power forward there but you know not supernaturally big but scholar by the name of Clyde Billington wrote a paper a few years ago and he's changed mind on that he pointed out that when the subduigent was translated this was done by Jewish religious scholars in the third century BC translating it into Greek they were in Egypt and the Egyptian cubit is longer than the than the the standard cubit that was used and the cubit kind of fluctuated it's like you know your mileage may vary it was the distance between your elbow from your elbow to

the tip of your finger so if you were say a a short Jewish youth like David, for example, your cubit might only be 15 inches instead of 18. The average Israelite in the time of Goliath was only about 5 foot four, 5 foot three. So, you know, six cubits in a span might be plausible if he was really tall. The translators of the subtoagint working in 3rd century BC, Egypt with a longer cubit thought the Egyptians will never buy this if we put six cubits a span so they changed it to four cubits in a span but they were still looking at a guy who was probably in the vicinity of eight to nine feet tall so he was a giant Ag of Bashan his bed is what's described four cubits by nine cubits so what six feet

by thirteen and a half feet that interestingly matches exactly and we know this from inscription found at the Entimanonki which is the temple of Marduk at Babylon matches exactly the size of the cult bed of Marduk, where every year on the New Year's festival, his consort, Zarponatoo, would come down from heaven and they would have ritual sex to bless the land. So what Moses was saying,

by pointing out that Og's bed was the exact same dimensions as the bed of Marduk, was that Og, who was an Amorite, was engaged in the same occult practices as the magicians and wizards of Babylon. So we don't know for a fact that Og was that big. That's the reputation he's got, but what Moses was doing was actually connecting the occult practices of Og,

who, after all, lived in a place known as the entrance to hell with the occult practices of Babylon. Well, this has been a fascinating interview, Derek. Thank you so much for your time and for just your index. depth research you've put in for so many years in the books, in the podcasts, and the programs you run. So what's the best way for people to follow you on social media, on your website? Give us all the ways people can follow Derek Gilbert. The best way to follow my wife and me is at our website, gilberthouse.org.

We've got links to our individual websites from there, links to our YouTube channel, where we probably put out about four and a half hours of content a week between PID Radio, our weekend look at Theo politics, geopolitics, but with a supernatural twist to it. Unravelling Revelation, we look at End Times Prophecy, my podcast of you from the bunker. We do a weekly Bible study as well. We've got an app which basically brings it all into a mobile device, smartphone or tablet, also Roku and Apple TV, and you can find that link at the website as well. So that's really the best way.

Just go to the website, gilberthouse.org. Thank you for writing the second coming of Saturn. Get this book or some of the other books by Derek and Sharon. Great stuff. And hey, we got to do this again when this other book comes out that you and Sharon are working on because that sounds, what's it called again about Stargates? Well, it's called the Gates of Hell. The Gates of Hell.

We do get into Stargates, if you will, because there are those who are trying to contact entities in space. So our contention is that portals are not necessarily physical. You can open gates pretty much anywhere just by inviting those things to come in. Fascinating. Well, thanks again, Derek, and hopefully we'll see you again in the future.