Megalithic Marvels - Cliff Dunning: Unveiling Ancient Egypt

Episode Date: July 1, 2022

Author, researcher & host of the Earth Ancients podcast - Cliff Dunning, joins Derek Olson of Megalithic Marvels me to share about his journey into the realm of ancient history & to discuss the many mysteries of Egypt in this exclusive interview Follow Megalithic Marvels on the following platforms:  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/megalithicm...  Blog - https://megalithicmarvels.com/ Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpiP...   Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/megalithicma...   TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@megalithicmarvels Facebook group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/10186...  Twitter - https://twitter.com/MegMarvels

Well, I'm excited to be joined by author, researcher, and host of the Earth Ancient podcast, Cliff Dunning. Cliff, thanks so much for joining me today on Megalific Marvels. Hey, Dee. Great to see you. And thanks for the invite. Yeah, so tell us a little bit about that journey. So, okay, so you started the podcast, Earth Ancients podcast in 2014. Yeah.

Tell us a little bit about the journey that got you into ancient history and what inspired you to say, hey, I got to, I got to start this podcast. Well, I've been one of these guys that always questions. authority. And as a young kid, I would question my Sunday school teacher about the Bible, and I'd be asked to leave because they didn't want to talk about it. And then I had a very interesting upbringing. My grandfather was this country doctor that really looked at history, and he had a killer library of ancient Chinese, Indian, Hindu, native. American research. And these are different authors that were at the turn of the century. And I

just devoured that. And I've had one of these attitudes that, you know, we're not getting the full story for many years. And in fact, it was such a strong desire to know more that in the late 1990s, I quit a high-paying job in Silicon Valley out here in San Jose to become the program director for a national conference called The Whole Life. And this was a very unusual conference because it had a section on wellness, personal growth, spirituality, and ancient civilizations. And it's so weird because I was attending one of the early conferences. And I was not really satisfied with what I was hearing. And I went up to the producer. I said, hey, you know what, there's so much more you could be doing it with this thing.

And we hit it off really well. He offered me a job the next day. And it was like a third of the pay that I was getting. But I was so passionate about it that I quit my job as a marketing specialist and became a program director. And over the years, it allowed me to meet some of the top people in the field. field. And when I stopped working as a program director in the early 2000s, I went kind of back to working with Silicon Valley in the high tech. But then podcasting technology emerged. And I jumped into it in the very early period and was doing this as kind of a side gig. You know,

know. And the beauty of it is I had already established these relationships. People like Graham Hancock, when fingerprints of the gods came out, I got a chance to see him here in Northern California. But he also was willing to come and do a talk. So he was, you know, one of the early people and one of the amazing authors who was talking about the ancient past. And I just have a passion And we can get into this more. The biggest reason, I think, is the fact that the scientific method, which is what we use to gauge discovery, especially in archaeological ruins, doesn't work.

You cannot repeat a test on a lot of things. You can't, I mean, if, as I was told by my and elder mentors, the technology doesn't exist anymore. The science is only, in scraps, we have a whole missing history of our planet and the people who use these sciences that we don't have a clue about. But we have the evidence in the buildings, and the ruins that are left to us. And so the approach that I take with this podcast is looking for people who are scientists, but also open to the possibilities of missing,

technology. And so the basis of Earth Ancients, the podcast, and the other podcast, which is called Destiny, is the possibilities and most likely the probabilities of a loss, science, technology, and civilizations. So that's it in a nutshell. I want to ask you about Egypt, because you were recently on tour with the guide of Egypt, as we call him, Muhammad Ibrahim. If you don't know and you're listening, Muhammad is Cliff and I would say one of the foremost tour guides for Egypt. He's a native of there. He's been doing tours over 20 years.

He's also an Egyptologist. So you went on an Earth Ancient tour with Muhammad. I've got several specific questions to ask you, but kind of first just give us a brief overview of your trip. Was there a few favorite highlights you want to let us know about? Yeah, I want to also suggest. that Muhammad is the ultimate anomalous. And when we say anomalous, he is, of course, the beauty of him is that he was raised by the pyramids.

He grew up as a child. He was born in Cairo. And he knows these sites. Many of them are off the beaten path because the general public just won't get it. But the beauty of him is that he looks at these temples, pyramids, buildings, structures, stonework. from the observation of there's a law civilization and its advanced technology used to build these things. And that is so rare to find an Egyptologist or a tour guide willing to go outside of the box and talk about these things. I think that's why you chose them.

And that's why a lot of other people chose Muhammad to be the host of the tour. Yeah, you posted a photo of you just mentioned it, this subterranean shod. shaft at Sakara's pyramid there that was recently opened. Yeah. So describe for us what it was like to descend down into this shaft or down to it to the bottom and tell us about the massive granite box at the bottom. Right. So this, these, there's two shafts.

There's one underneath the Dojor pyramid at Sakara. And then on the other end of the, of the civic area, there's a second shaft that we've known about, but it took them about 10 years to excavate, consolidate, clean them up. And the southern shaft, they put in a stairway, a metal stairway that leads you from the very top of the surface all the way down, almost 100 feet underground. Traditionalists believe this is a a tomb of some kind. But unfortunately, as many of my guests have said, and many of them are Egyptologists, Egyptology is dead, basically. And so their references are outdated. They don't make any sense. And they are, frankly, their guesswork. What this, these shafts look like, and first of all, I should

mention this, how they cut the shafts 100 feet so perfectly square is a big, big question, because we're talking about bedrock. We're talking about almost 100 feet, perfectly square shaft cut to the very base of these tombs. When I was at the second shaft, I actually brought my compass. My compass went crazy. And these blocks at the southern shaft, it's 100 feet down. Each of them weighs about 50 tons, and they're stacked perfectly on top of each other with a what looks like a cork at the very top. There's no indication that this is a tomb. It's very likely some form of technology. Muhammad believes it might be some form of generation or generator of some kind.

The questions that came up were that is it a nuclear generator? No, not likely. Is it a piezoelectric geomagnetic device of some kind? More likely. But here again, we get into situations where because we can't measure any energy, because we don't have a sense of the science and technology behind it, we can only guess. So as with technology like LIDAR, where they can scan the surface of a hill and find what might be laying underneath the foliage, the trees, and the bushes and stuff. A technology needs to be

developed that can scan this box and determine what was once in there. If it had a, if it was a generator of some kind, what was it generating for? And by the way, there's a whole labyrinth of housing rooms, corridors underneath the Dojure pyramid that connects these two. tunnels. And the latest is that these people were, there was a whole population underground that was hiding from sunbursts. And this is what Muhammad's telling us now that there was, the surface of the planet 12,000 plus years ago was uninhabitable for a few years, if not more. And these might be, been some form of power generation. So very anomalous. very unusual.

Technology we don't know. Perfect angles cut. Heavy, heavy stonework. And why it's so deep, we don't know. And again, the story we're told by Egyptology is that it is a tomb.

But there's no body in it. There was no writing in it. Strange geomagnetic properties that spin a compass around. a lot of weird stuff there, a lot of weird stuff. Yeah, fascinating. You also posted a photo on your Instagram, and maybe it was in the Earth Ancient's Facebook group as well.

Listeners and viewers, make sure you find Cliff's Earth Ancients Facebook group. That's really awesome. Lots of great content in there in photos. But you posted a video, I think, of the same area, Sakara, but you were kind of showing the reconstructed structures that are out front that Muhammad believes were maybe some type of hospital or healing center. Yeah. And I wanted to get your take on it because I had seen some photographs of these structures before I went to Egypt. And I just always assumed, well, it kind of looks different.

I'm sure that's dynastic, right? But you get up close to these. And I mean, these are precision cut. Some of the blocks fold around corners. I mean, my mind was blown and Muhammad was. saying, no, I believe these are, literally we're talking 12,000 years old. Was your mind blown by that, too? When I first saw it a couple of years ago, it was really an out-of-place artifact. Those buildings are almost modern in the way they're constructed and architecturally. They're so out of place.

And I think he's right. I think they're extremely old. I don't know if you got a chance. to go and stick your head into one of the openings in the hospital area. You can hear that low thumping sound that keeps coming up. Where that sounds coming from, we don't know. Why it's built over this area, I believe it's that whole complex is over what they call a geobagnetic anomaly or a lay line. the English call a lay line. There are so many strange buildings around there that it's just mind-blowing. And I think that one of the big problems we have, and I don't know if Muhammad

mentioned this, is the fact that the Egyptological community refuses to use ground penetrating radar in any of these very unusual buildings. I cannot believe this when I hear this and I'm deeply frustrated. I have the same problem when I go to Mexico. They just don't want to open the Pandora's box because think about this. If this, if they were to do a ground penetrating radar scan of this building that we're talking about, which is known as the hospital, and they found some form of machinery that is activated, that's continually activated because of the energy pulsing, that would throw history out the door. And why they don't use any form of technology there is extremely frustrated for you and me and many other people who want to know what is the source of the sound, what is underneath the building.

And because, you know, the Egyptians like the Maya, like these other cultures, built on top of earlier structures. I would not be surprised if those buildings at the hospital are on top of something else. you know. So do you believe that's the biggest reason for them not wanting to use ground penetrating radar or LiDAR and stuff is because they want to keep the Egyptological narrative intact? Pretty much. Yeah. Now, remember the technology behind pyramid scan, the consortium of Japanese and French scientists

that scan the Great Pyramid, found. voice in the upper chamber, found voice in the entranceway, and were about to publish a very major document when they were sequestered and basically told not to do anything more until you hear from the antiquities department. Well, that was four years ago, and we haven't heard anything since. So there's something about revealing new information that is either upsetting to their culture. The other possibility is that the American government had said to them, look, we're funding your country

to the tune of many billions of dollars every year. We do not want you to divulge anything regarding new discoveries or new information. I mean, I've had Robert Shock, the geologist on my show. He spent money with other researchers to drill into the front of the Sphinx, and this is 20 years ago, and they found a room. But he was not allowed to talk about, yeah. The other thing is he was not allowed to pass a optical device to see what was in there.

So it just doesn't make any sense. And this is one of the big frustrations that I have. The other frustration is the fact that Egyptologists do not talk with the current shaman of Egypt. This is the same issue we have in Mexico. For 150 years, archaeologists have been excavating Mayan ruins. They do not talk with the shaman. They do not talk with the daykeepers, the guys who are still using this science to prepare for their crops.

In many cases, have children to know what the future holds, to not have this, reliable data is crippling. And those guys also probably have most of the oral traditions and legends too. Oh, oral traditions, legends, and before he died, Bereros, who is a friend of mine, says there's a couple of different codices that are in possession of different Mayan tribes in the Guatemalan region. If we had a new codis, a new book from the Maya's past, you can imagine what new data we would get. You know, so, and they're reluctant to even talk to the dynamics because they've been treated

so poorly for so many years, you know. You mentioned the tunnels underneath and that's, that really fascinated me on our tour, Muhammad was telling us how he hears reports from guards and even archaeologists of these massive subterranean tunnels they find everywhere. Most of them are all sealed off to people like us. Right. But it's known by the insiders that they're there and they connect so many of these ancient sites and go for so long, like you said, maybe from Sakar, all the way at Giza. And that leads me to my next question. You posted a picture on your Instagram of you standing inside the subterranean Osirian of Abidos. And this structure fascinates me. I mean, you're standing next to this

killer that has to be at least 100 tons. It just dwarfed you. I mean, made you look like an aunt. I know. Hell us about being inside there and then again, your theories on what this might have been. Do you think like Muhammad that this could have been some kind of engine that powered the pyramids underground? And then did you see the flower of life symbol that people have talked about on one of those walls? Yeah. The Assyrian is a fascinating. building simply because it's another out of place artifact. There is very few other buildings that are built with megalithic red granite stone that is similar to the Assyrian, except the Great Pyramid itself. I, I, I, this is another situation where in the next few years, some kid out of MIT

is going to develop some scanning technology that allows us to pick up a faint residue of some form of energetic output or a shadow or some form of radiation emitting from these stones. I believe that the science that was behind buildings like the Osirion, the Great Pyramid, and many of the other ancient discurs. discoveries was Earth-based and was not harmful like nuclear technology would be to us today. I think the Osirin was some form of a generator that was powering things. As you know, it's about, was it 10 to 15 feet below the surface, maybe 20. And it was covered in massive stones. And so I don't think it was really made to walk in in the same manner we do today. But I've heard from a lot of different scientists who have had a chance to go in there,

including the engineer, Chris, excuse me, Chris Dunn, yes. This is something very, very unique. And it has to do with water. And when you get there, you walk down 20, 25 feet to the base. and there is water continually flowing into the system. The belief is because of the water marks that when it was running, the water was almost to the very top. Is there a telluric energy that comes up,

layline energy, geomagnetic energy that intertwines with the water and some other element that triggers a energetic response? is the question. The funny thing about it is you get it, you get down in there, and then you go to these coverings, these housings that are at each end of the Osirian, and the dynastics, after the machines,

probably hadn't been used in thousands of years, have beautiful reliefs on the walls and on the ceiling. But we were told, because we got a chance to see it for the first time in this last trip, many of the references on the reliefs are of some form of ceremony taking place in this area. And so if the machine was on to a certain degree, there's images of caretakers with certain headgear on.

They might have had it. The system, the science behind it and the technology might have had enough energy still left in it that if someone walked through that chamber, they got it not only a little juice, a little spark, a little bit of some form of electromagnetic energy, but perhaps it was an enhancement. Maybe it had actually enhanced them to some degree so that they were able to meditate deeper. I mean, because you've got to remember, the earliest dynastics were very much into spirituality. And many of the temples that we see on these tours, D, are still activated.

Even though the technology in the temple or a place like Osirian is not there anymore, like the Great Pyramid, there's a bunch of technology that's missing, there's still the energy from the laylines that is active and still pulsing into these buildings. So these ruins, these release depict people passing through the Osirian, and they look like they're coming out different, you know. So we don't know. Oh, I do know this, but when I'm in the Great Pyramid, and we get to go by ourselves for a couple hours, you know about that.

It feels different. It feels, especially in the Queens Chamber, there's a very, very subtle energy there. And that's why some people will lay in the box. Some people won't. These buildings are, many of them are still activated. And so that's my, that's the best I can give you for the Assyrian. Yeah, fascinating structure to say at least.

Because right there you've got, what is it, the temple of Hathor that's above ground, right? Yeah. Setti. Sedi, Sedi, the temple, city's temple. Yeah. That's right. The temple of Sedi. And that's amazing in its own right and massive.

and your average tourist sees that and they have no idea that the subterranean one of the greatest structures in all of Egypt is right there under the ground and most of them, I'm assuming their tour guides probably don't even take them down there. They don't take it down there.

And the big problem also, D, is the fact that no ground penetrating radar is allowed at the SETI temple whatsoever. So we don't know if the Osirion continues underneath or there's some form. of connection, some tunnels, chambers, or anything that would connect the two. Obviously, the SETI temple is thousands of years after the Osirium was made. So, you know, what's around the Asyrian that we don't know about? There's a lot. There's probably a lot of stuff we don't know.

You posted a photo of you inside the Valley Temple, which for listeners is right next to the Sphinx. and I think that was one of my favorite sites to see as well, the scale of this thing. This Valley Temple is another anomaly simply because there's no place else in Egypt that has stones that are of that scale. Well, I mean, the Great Pyramid has some, but it's really mind bending when you go up against and stand next to these stones because they're just huge. Yeah, it's amazing. when on our tour, Muhammad was kind of explaining a possible theory that, so you've got these different types of megalithic structures in Egypt. You know, we all think of the pyramids, but you've got the pyramids likely producing some

kind of holistic energy like Chris Dunn would say that was coupled with Earth, right? Yeah. And that these pyramids were likely powering these megalithic temples, like the Valley Temple, for example. And for listeners who haven't been to Egypt, you got this pyramid. And that was one of my biggest takeaways climbing through that a couple months ago is this thing is not even functional in a sense to be climbed through. I mean, I could barely climb up and down it with the wooden plinks they've put in there, right? Yeah. How would the ancients have done it thousands of years ago with a funeral procession and statues and artifacts? It's impossible. Yeah. The purestions.

pyramids were not, they're not even functional for humans or something like humans to climb through. But then you've got these temples, like the Valley Temple that Cliff's talking about, where this thing does kind of feel functional. And Muhammad believes this was some kind of healing center to heal your body. Yeah. Pass the one side and come to the other. So you kind of get it. Wow.

Okay. And then you've got the obelisks. That's a whole other story. So so much there. I wanted to ask you about you posted a picture of yourself at the Bent Pyramid. And in the post, you said, this is one of the most animatic structures in the world. Why do you believe that about the Bent Pyramid? Well, let's go back to what you were just saying about how, when you were inside the Great Pyramid,

Kufu Pyramid, that you thought, there's no way people were moving around in there. It was not made for people. that's exactly my belief in many other engineers who I've brought along is that these shafts that we're looking at, they're maintenance shafts. There is no way those were used to carry burial goods, a procession, as you call them, into the center of these pyramids. Because if you've been down to either the bent pyramid or the red pyramid or the main pyramid in Giza, you'll know that when you're in the middle, of it, it isn't designed for people. It's designed for perhaps enclosures for machine parts, perhaps liquids, which is Chris Dunn's theory, perhaps there's different kinds of gases that are combusted. There's no way. When I first went into the bent pyramid, and by the way, that is an

amazing structure of the bent pyramid. It's like, you know, Egyptologists say, well, they made a mistake. the ancients didn't make mistakes, man. That thing is precision from start to finish. When you go down the shaft at the bent pyramid, you open in, and first of all, the shaft is tiny. You got to squat all the way from top to bottom, and they help you a little bit with some plank work and a railing. But hey, it's like about 150 yards from front,

from the top to the bottom. When you enter into the main room of the shaft, there's nothing in there that looks like a burial or a procession or there's no carvings. In fact, there's literature of some of the early explorers finding strange residue on the walls, strange what looks like some form of a chemical combustion because some of the stonework has been etched and eroded. So this is a machine. And the red pyramid is the same way as a machine. The Great Pyramid, when you go in the Great Pyramid, you go into the King and the Queen's chamber. And you're surrounded by 10 to 50 to 60 tonne blocks of red granite perfectly aligned. Well, these are housings for some form of machinery. This is what Chris Dunn believes.

But it's so far removed from the Egypt top Egyptological narrative that it confuses the hell out of people. And so we need a whole new body of scientists. We need some people that are curious about what it could possibly be. And the narrative that these are just burial chambers has to end because we have a whole, have a whole science technology and the results of this that's being left behind that we could possibly use to detect if we had the machinery,

but maybe we have something now that we could, you know, even ground penetrating radar might reveal something if we did it around the bent pyramid. There might be a building underneath there or something, you know. don't know. Yeah. Yeah, the bent pyramid. I mean, I think it, it's lower part rises at an angle of 54 degrees, I believe, and then 160 feet up, it, it flattens to like 43 degrees. And so you can see it was calculated. It wasn't just starting to fall apart or a big mistake. And then Muhammad pointed out, it was fascinating that why is there mica crystal found all over the ground at that side only and not the red pyramid down the street.

Yeah. And it's likely that it was covered with this mica crystal stone for energy purposes. And they all fell off after some kind of disruption. And when you start to study the geology, and that was one of the coolest parts I took away from my trip was how much geology plays such a part and all this. For example, mica is like a heater energy insulator. and so that again lends to this could have been some type of device that was producing some energy right in the prehistoric past. Yeah, he says that he believes, Mohamed believes the bent perimeter was some form of a communication emitter.

And it used, it actually created what we consider today as a microwave effect. And I don't remember how he got to that conclusion, except for the mind. Mika being one. And also, I don't know if you got a chance to see it, but around the left side of the entrance shaft, there's a little temple that he says was the operating temple for the thing. Again, we don't know what's underneath there because we have not had a chance to see with ground penetrating radar if there is a connection. But it's very likely there is. So. Yeah, we went inside the, we only had time to go inside one of those two pyramids, Mom, it said take your pick. We went to the red pyramid, but so I didn't, I didn't get to go in the bent pyramid. How similar is it to the red pyramid? The shafts are similar.

The red pyramid, for some reason, has a smaller shaft. So, I mean, some of the, anyone who's taller than, you know, six one or six feet, you have to literally put your feet in front of you and kind of drag yourself down the shaft because you can't bend. So it's more arduous to get down there. The ceiling in the red pyramid is more is a longer beveled type of ceiling. Again, we don't have a clue what was being done in there. if it was an engine of some kind, if it was combusting some form of energy, or it was for communications, you know, there are some very strange little, I call them housings.

And what a housing is is a feature that allows for a box or some technology to be placed in a wall. And so there's a lot of housing in the red pyramid that could have supported some other technology that is combusting gases, is perhaps picking up the geomagnetic energy and intensifying it and then being used as some form of communication device. We don't know. It's just, yeah. Going inside the red pyramid was so fascinating. because, you know, this pyramid is much smaller than the great pyramids up north in Giza. You know, and it's missing all of its casing stones. And so, I mean, it still looks amazing, but it's very eroded on the outside, right?

Yeah. So you're picturing that's probably what it's going to look like on the inside, a bunch of eroded blocks. You go inside that chamber and into the main entrance and it's just, it's precision, the most amazing precision, mechanical feel you can imagine. Everything is oh, what's the word? It's just perfectly cut and this thing is so old. It's just crazy.

Well, you said it. Precision. You know, why have a, you know, a multi-ton pyramid and then inside of it is this precise cut arranged, laid out room that appears to have housed some form of technology. And I strongly believe that it wasn't made for humans. I don't think you were supposed to be in there when it was working.

I think those shafts we go down are maintenance shafts. You're not supposed to be down in there. The second time I was in there a couple of years ago, I got a really weird. sensation like, you know, you're not, you shouldn't be down there for any length of time because of gasing. You know what I mean? Like there's some form of gassing. That's the other thing. They haven't analyzed the walls of any of those pyramids.

You know, no one's gone in there and analyze what could have been going on in there. There's a bunch of bat excrement. That's about it. Yeah, and you can smell it, right? Boy, yeah. You can. It's strong. You know, at sites like Tennis up north and then at the Ramazium and others, okay, so we see these massive statue pieces. And they're crafted from a single piece of granite, precision crafted.

The one at the Ramizium weighs a thousand tons. And that's just with the torso and kind of shoulders that are still left. Muhammad says before it was damaged, it probably weighed 2,000 tons. And these things, you look close at displays muscle tone. And then they feature these deeply embedded symbols or people would say hieroglyphs that almost looked like they could have been 3D printed to use a phrase. Do you think these statues predate the dynastics? Are these megalithic statues possibly that were built before the dynastics?

It feels like that. it feels like they were too sophisticated to be from the dynastics. And we do know this now from a number of different places. Most likely, most recently I was at the Luxor Temple. And there's a couple of really, really, really big statues that are out in front. I think each of them weighs 60 tons or more. What these ferros were doing is they were repurposing these statues. The best guess that we have is that when the dynastics grew and developed their

culture, these statues were already there. And people like Ramsey II, who was one of the big builders, just placed this cartouche on these things. Like, I made this. Well, there's no way that he actually cut those because we don't have anything that's close. Chris Dunn, his book on Advanced Technology in Ancient Egypt states that in his analysis, these were cut with a level of precision that had to be automated, some form of automation, because they all look the same, especially that he calls them the Ramsey, too, happy face. Their left-right features, left side of the face and right side of the face, are you could put a mirror down the middle of the nose and they're exact the left side and the

right side are exact so this is technology uh in our face and uh so yeah i do believe that these statues the statuary at most of these temples the the the cyclone the monstrous pieces are likely prior to the dynastics yeah it's absolutely fascinating because like at the Ramazium and I think Karnak too. Again, if you're not, if you don't get your megalithic goggles on, it's easy to just miss this and be sucked into this is all dynastics. And if you don't know the dynastics,

what they, cliff, they were here from, I think it was like 3,100 BC to 300 BC. So that's kind of the time frame for the dynastic pharaohs. Yeah. So we're talking megalithic way before that. But if you go to like your average site like, not average, but a site like of the Ramazium, you see all these sandstone walls with more crude hieroglyphs.

You see pillars and statues that are all made in sections. Like that's the best the dynastics could do. And then you go around the corner and you'll see a granite much harder on the most scale of hardness than sandstone, right? And this thing is made out of one precision piece with these, again, symbols and hieroglyphs that look like they were laser cut. Well, if the dynastics made these deeply embedded laser cut almost symbols, why is the rest of the site so inferior? They, that's a problem.

And so that was one of the biggest, that was my biggest takeaway from my trip was, oh, my gosh, you mean to tell me there might be me megalithic statues that we have a glimpse of who these ancients were. And do you also think that these symbols or these hieroglyphs, if that was the megalithic builders, wouldn't that mean this was part of their lost language that somehow the dynastics adopted and kept going? Yeah, I think that the dynastics may have had literature that was left from the earlier culture. Where this earlier culture went, we don't know, was it destroyed in the horrific

you know, cataclysm that reigned asteroids on earth 12,500 years ago triggering worldwide panic and destruction. The guess is that during this time, 80% of humanity

was destroyed. If those are the remains of this previous civilization, you know, it's likely they're were some books, there were some bits and pieces of data that were left, that the dynastics likely copied, you know? Hard to say what these pre-dynastics look like, but I think that a lot of the Farrells that preceded these dynastics, they were trying to follow along with them.

One of the things I want to bring up also is the famous Kings list. And the Kings list goes way, way, way, way back. I think it goes back as far as Muhammad believes like 400,000 years ago. And there's pharaohs and kings that are listed that we don't know about because they were probably pre-deluvian, pre-flood. But the really weird thing about them is they're considered myths because we don't know anything about them. but if you keep following this king's list up until present time or in the last few thousand years, some of the known pharaohs are on that list. So how do we interpret that, that they were in fantasy land until 10,000 years ago?

Yeah. And then after that, it was like, okay, these other guys like Ramsey's and Akanathan were legitimate pharaohs. So, I mean, it's kind of schizophrenic, you know, it really is. that we don't have more buy-in from the scientists who are studying this as to, what is this King's List? Why hasn't it been validated? Is there any reference? Now, a lot of the alternatives researchers sometimes verify the King's List and try to claim that there is individuals that are noted because of their symbol. or cartouche on a statue or something or a piece of sculpture.

So there is so much in Egypt because it's such an ancient place and it has been continually lived for perhaps tens of thousands of years. We so much is lost. And then they add insult to injury. You can't scan the ground. So. Yeah. Yeah, you've mentioned catechism a couple times.

and you quickly hit on the Sphinx and some of the work of Robert Schock, just give us a little tidbit on your thoughts on, you know, dating with the Sphinx, with Schock's theory on, what is that, 11,600 years ago. And then you mentioned the flood. Just kind of give us something there with how that, do you think the flood is the reason why there is water erosion in the sphinx enclosure? I had to say this, that shock was following the lead of John Anthony West. John Anthony West had studied the works of Schaller Dulubich, who was a German scientist who

studied the buildings that the dynastic, pre-dinastics had built, and saw a humanistic element in them, and kind of an imprint of humanity in the. in architecture. He took that information and a little hint that DeLubich left that the Sphinx was extremely old and much older than we had acknowledged. He couldn't get enough scientists or geologists to agree with him.

And so he found Robert Schock, who's a tenured professor at Boston University, to come with him. him and review the Sphinx enclosure, the Sphinx itself, and his theory, John Anthony West's theory, is that the Sphinx was aged by water, damaged by water. Shock concluded that Wes was right in his hypothesis and dated the Sphinx based on the erosion to roughly, I think it's 7,000 or 8,000 BC, which would be 9,000 plus. West, John Anthony West, dates the Sphinx in the 20,000 years ago.

He's really, you know, way, way, way, way old. And he dates it based on the positioning of the Sphinx and the various astrological constellations that come into sight at the time that the Sphinx was built. And apparently it's 20,000 years ago, according to him, and the precision of the Equinocs moving the constellations at such a rate that, in his estimation, the Sphinx is extremely old. So that's the explanation that West had, shock being much more conservative of being of the academic

crest believes it's much younger and actually fought against Egyptologists in a debate why his beliefs were what they were so that's a long story short yeah before we transition to talking about the Maya I want to I think I got two more questions about Egypt One is Great Pyramid. Let's talk about that real quick. I mean, just walking around the outside, there's so many anomalies. You see these, what looks like saw marks or cuts, I should say, drill holes. I had no idea of the floor or is a constructed floor around the Great Pyraman. I mean, I literally found like eight sided stones, almost like you'd seen a Peruvian wall. Yeah. It's incredible. Then you go inside, you go inside. You go.

got these ascending and descending chambers. You got the basement down there, subterranean chamber, right, the so-called Queens chamber, the so-called King's Chamber. What fascinates you most about the Great Pyrameter? What's your favorite part of it? Well, Chris Dunn opened my eyes to the interior being some form of mechanism. As you're walking in the great gallery, you must have seen this, there's like holes that are cut into the sides of this ascending stairway. And according to him, those were housings for some form of machine. Now, in the later years, there's a writing, and I can't remember if it's the Greek philosopher Herodotus, I think it might have been, who says that after the ancients had left and they had gutted the interior, the preceding dynastics place statues in there just to kind of make it look good.

And so they were obviously walking in and out of it. But it was not made to support statuary. It was made to support some form of technology. And perhaps the biggest aha for me is when you ascend the Grand Gallery into the King and Queens chamber, it's like there's no way that's for a burial. It's for some form of technology. You know, there's a, there's like the box where this supposed to have laid the body. That's like a box. It's not even big enough for some, well, you could lay down in it, but it's made for something else. It's like, and there's the shafts that go in and out.

to the outer sections of the of the pyramid. What are those for? And for Egyptologists to say, well, yes, it's because they wanted them to be able to see the stars where you can't see anything. It's just so ridiculous.

We're giving these childlike explanations for high technology, and they're so afraid to reveal even a guess, estimate at what it could be, even in the face of engineers, chemists and others who are in the scientific domains who look at these things and go, well, wait a minute, this is not a tomb. This is some form of advanced science in play. You know, so that's my fascination with a big, great pyramid. Yeah, no, thanks for sharing that.

I was taken back by, is it called the anti-chamber, that piece that's, that's, space you enter right before you go into the so-called kings chamber. It's just that little section and you see these huge grooves that go straight up vertically. So mechanical. So mechanical. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of that. I mean, just the, in each one of those chambers, just if you look at the ceiling and the walls and the floor, those are huge slabs of red granite. Yeah. Huge, you know. And if you ever go a chance to go, again, bring your compass with you and put it on the floor. Okay, I will definitely bring my compass next time.

Okay, so aside from the Great Pyramid, what would you say is your favorite site that you saw? It has to be Dendera and the Hathor Temple. And that place is screaming for ground penetrating radar, screaming for LIDAR, screaming for LIDAR, screaming for any of the new technologies. It's a gorgeous temple that has been in constant use for likely 10,000 years. But in my own research as a Mayanist, there is a temple that is very rarely looked at, which is the best temple when you first walk underneath the arching overhang into the main area. On the right side is a mini, it's not really small, it's a megalithic temple.

to the God best. But what people don't know is if you look at the release on the interior of that temple, there is a small person as a pharaoh. It's one of the small people that Dr. Susan Martinez talks about in her book, The Race of Small Beans. And Bess was immortalized as a god of fertility, of good times and of sexuality. And when I saw that temple,

it dumbfounded me for number one, because no one writes about it. And number two, not only is the little elf bests all over the columns, but the hieroglyphs I've never seen before, they're amazing. The release, this little pharaoh.

His legs don't even hang off the chair. He's everywhere. So it shows that at some point, some of these small humans may have been part of pre-dynastic Egypt. The next best part of that Dendera-Hathor temple is the actual temple itself. Did you have a chance to go into the crypts? Yes, that was amazing. Okay. So we know of five, there's a guesstimate of 10 to 20 that they have not opened.

also that temple sits on a much earlier temple because we can see the the columns that it's under that it's on top of why don't we know it's underneath that temple you know it's amazing the other thing that makes it a perfect megalithic marvel's place to be is if you walk the perimeter many of the megalithic flooring is held together with keys, the same keys we see in Kusko, the same keys we see in ancient parts of Europe. So that tells me that that building is extremely old and widely used for a very long time. When I first went there, what was that in 2018, we were at almost twilight. We ran in and ran out when it was an hour. and there was a light energy like you were connected to a short wattage battery. You could actually feel it. And it was an amazing feeling.

The other thing that Muhammad mentioned to us is that it was known by the dynastics as not only a healing place, but a great place for birth because right behind the Hathor temple is the ISIS temple. That is a monster of. of megalithic stones. Apparently, the energy is of such a intensity that pregnant women of the kingdom went there to have their babies. So there's a real, real high energy. And if you go to the very top of the building, the sucker's built by with, you know, 10, 15, 50 tonne blocks of granite. and at the very top is an observation deck. And there's little timbles on top.

There's a complete astrological sign on one of the ceilings at the top. And the other thing is I brought my compass laid it at the very top of one of the megalithic stones that must wait about 30 tons. And that thing was acting up. So that whole place is charged with something. So the Dendera, the Dendera, the Dendera. site, the Hathor Temple is the true megalithic site other than the Assyrian. Well, I could also say the Serpium too, but as a building, as a building, it's really, for me, I revel in that place because it's really, we've just scratched the surface as to what it's about.

This has been a fascinating interview, Cliff. Thanks so much for joining me. And what's, What's the best way for our audience to connect with you? Is it the Facebook group? Is it some other way? If they want to connect with me directly, you can go to Cliff at earthancients.com is my email. I have a administrator for the Facebook pages. There is the Facebook Earth Ancients group page. And then there's an international page that you can check out.

The group page is more people communicating with each other. And like-minded data gets pasted on there. I put some stuff on there. I have a website, earthanjants.com. You can see the podcast we produce Earth Ancients podcast once a week. And then Destiny is every Wednesday. And we have a new YouTube page. It's Matrix Wisdom videos.

T-R-I-X Wisdom, W-I-S-D-O-M YouTube page. Just went up a couple of weeks ago. Oh, cool. And these are things we've been talking about with, and then we actually present the experts. And they're short, I think the most,

the longest is about an hour. But this is a new platform we're trying. And we're, I've been told occasionally I've long-winded, so the guy edits me down. So, yeah, Matrix Wisdom is the parent. And then this is the new channel for everybody from Graham Hancock, who's the bestselling author, into some of the newer research investigators looking at a lot of the problems I present on the podcast. So yeah, that's it.

Awesome. Well, we'll follow you on those. channels like I said to everybody listening or watching jump into the earth ancients Facebook group lots of great conversations and photos there obviously subscribe to earth ancients podcast and be looking for Cliff's book coming out next year Cliff thanks so much my friend a pleasure Dee I really enjoyed it thanks we'll do it again thanks