Megalithic Marvels - Entities, Ayahuasca & Ancient Apocalypse 2 Ep 5 Review

Episode Date: November 7, 2024

The second season of the much anticipated and highly controversial Ancient Apocalypse docuseries has been released on Netflix featuring author and explorer Graham Hancock. This season focuses on ancient sites located in the Americas, and Graham opens the season asking “Could the key to discovering a lost civilization of the Ice Age lie here in the Americas?” In this episode, I recap episode 5 with special guest Joel Telford, a fellow researcher and film-maker. Together, we share our thoughts on episode 5 which finds Graham visiting New Mexico to inspect the mysterious Chaco Canyon site. Graham also devotes a portion of episode 5 sharing the enigmas of Ohio's ancient Hopewell mounds and earth-works. Joel and I also share various thoughts and opinions regarding ayahuasca, entities and other such topics addressed by Graham in the episode. 2025 PERU &/or EASTER ISLAND TOUR

Stargate Voyager. Well, I am excited to be back for another episode reviewing Season 2 of Ancient Apocalypse. And in this episode, I am joined by fellow researcher, filmmaker, Joel Telford, who goes by J.T. follows JC on social media. Good to have you back after our last interview a month or so ago, which, man, that video we did on the mud flood cover up, got a ton of traffic. on Spotify, especially on YouTube. Man, people really found it controversial. Yes, they do. Let's just say controversial to say the least.

So what were your thoughts on what you saw from that? The mud flood is. It's like it's something that, like, once you're willing to look into it, there's something there. You know, so I don't really try to say I have any definitive conclusions about that. But I mean, there is a lot more research to do. be done in that area. And I think the craziest part is like again, when you have, I said, I got censored on like Facebook and, you know, and also Instagram saying it's been debunked.

And I was like, there's a lot of evidence. So like I'm not, I can't really tell you exactly what it all means and how it all happened. But no, the big lead did not debunk it. They just said it's not true. And then obviously that it almost feels like when they start to fact check that kind of stuff, it feels like maybe you're a little bit more of it the target because if it was just a crazy outlandish, theory. Like, why would they care? Yeah, well, it got a lot of traction and I got a lot of great feedback to people. Just amazed by the subject. Some people had never heard of this mud flood or Tartaria. And again, some people just get triggered by all of it, but it was fun to say the least. Everybody follow JT on Instagram, on YouTube. TikTok at JT follows J.C.

And I wanted to ask you before we jump into reviewing ancient apocalypse, you put out a couple videos lately that I've gotten my attention. One was underground cities in Seattle, which I live about an hour from Seattle. And then the other one was on these stamped bricks that were found in San Francisco. So for people who know nothing about this, kind of break these down and tell them where they can find. these videos. Well, yeah, so I just started this new kind of like podcast series and I call it JT's mixtape and I basically take some of the, you know, videos I find on social media that are interesting and we discuss them. So obviously, if anything, like again, we're talking about the mud flood, if anything relates to that, that's obviously going to be something that I would feature if I find

it interesting. And so on the last episode, I featured two videos. One of them, yeah, was about, it's kind of like this woman from TikTok doing a very traditional take about the underground parts of Seattle. And then I did another one where a guy kind of did some boots in the ground research in San Francisco. Now, the one in Seattle is funny because, again, we were talking about the mud flood on the podcast. And it's just like the mainstream narrative on how there became an underground part of Seattle was just, I don't know. Like I said, obviously I'm just, I'm kind of incredulous that people believe this. because they're saying that, you know, people go to Washington, Seattle, they start building the city. And for some reason, it's flooding constantly from the very start.

And they, the woman literally says that they had to have life preservers on the street because I guess you might be swept away in a flood at any moment. And I just like, okay, I don't know, I don't really, that doesn't seem very plausible to me. So then, of course, in 1889, it burns down. Like in every major city in America, sure enough, there's a great fire. The city burns down. So then they're like, oh, well, this is a great opportunity to fix the flooding problem. So then they decide to build on top of the old city after the fire. And that's why there's an underground part now.

And I'm just like, does that really make any sense? Like wouldn't the underground part be kind of, I don't know, flooded if it flooded before? and then just like the whole narrative but then we go over to like places like San Francisco and I show this this wall like it's like I think it's actually was

Los Lobos Highway and there's this interesting I don't know rock formations melted brick melted things and there's the guy actually pulled out partial preserved bricks and they had stamps on them I guess they said T-car on them

which is like a brick company from like the the early 1800s from England, believe it or not. And yeah, parts of these bricks are melted. And so obviously that was another controversial video because I was saying like, what happened here? And so a lot of people say, hey, dummy, don't you know that San Francisco had a bunch of great fires? And I try to remind people, I'm like, normal fire is not hot enough to melt bricks.

Do you know what your fireplace is made out of? It's made of bricks because they don't melt. I think they say like to melt those certain kind of bricks. it takes 2,800 degrees. So a house fire, you know, like these stories about these fires from like either the early 20th century, late 18th century, it's all, you know, like what's the famous one from Chicago? Some cow kicks over a lamp and the whole city burns down. Okay.

So like if that happened, that's not hot enough to melt bricks and stones and and do all the kind of things. But I guess it's the, you know, all that being said, there's some very interesting things. around the country that I think that people are starting to look at with different eyes. Like, what is that? Like, how did that get there? And it's like, it does seem to me, and we actually featured another video about these, kind of a, kind of a goofy video about tunnels under Los Angeles. They called it the actor bond and there was like Starbucks under the, I don't know.

I mean, it seems to late to me. But the point being was that, and after I've released these videos, so many people in the comments, oh, yeah, there's an underground part of our downtown. There's an, you know, like every major city has like tunnels or like an underground city part of their city. They all experience major fires at some point. And I know, I'm just saying, it's like it's interesting how it does relate to possibly the idea of a mud flood. It seems like what these underground cities are are literally like multiple stories of old buildings that are under the ground. that I mean, I believe that at some point we're above ground, but now they're not, and we have lots of questions about that.

Yeah, so interesting, because I live again here in Washington State, not far from Seattle. I've always heard about the underground tour in Seattle, and I've never gone on it. I guess because I'm here, you know, and it's just like you're used to it. But, man, after your video, I'm going on that tour as soon as possible, and I'm going to take exclusive footage for you. How does that sound? I love that idea. That's fantastic. I think even in Portland, I think they have an underground part as well in like Sacramento.

And so all those places all have similar stories. Well, one thing that cut my attention from the video you spliced together was that if it was actual footage from the Seattle underground city, you know, if the fire burned the whole city to the ground back in 1800s, why are all the storefronts not burned underground? Right. Wouldn't the first floors be pretty as burn as the other parts of the, I mean, like, that's what I was trying to think, like, okay, so how does a fire burning the place down make it easy, easier to build on top of it? And also it's like, what does that even look like to you? Like in your, in y'all's mind, what does that even look like when they said they built a city on top of the old city? It's kind of like in the way that I mentioned in the last video when I said, just like, um, Go Beckley-Tepe. Tepe is not a pyramid. So, like, like, Like it's under the ground. Like, you know what, I mean, it's like literally under the ground. So like, what is that even? So in your mind, how would you go about building a city on top of another city? You know what, would you have to get a lot of dirt in?

I mean, like, you know how crazy that sounds? Like, we're talking in a very early time of America, like the Wild Wild West days. And they decide that it would be easier to build on top of this city that floods all the time and just burn down than it would be to like, I don't know, build somewhere else. Yeah, build somewhere else with a solid foundation. Yeah, it seems like that if all those buildings burn down, wouldn't the structural integrity maybe be weakened in some of these places and it might not be the easiest built on top of? I'm definitely going to have to take a tour there, like I said.

I'll have to share the footage with you. I'm going to be excited to see what I find underground in Seattle. Me too. Maybe I will be the one that finds some exclusive footage that is the smoking gun proof of the mud flood, right? That would be fantastic. I'm rooting for you. Well, J.T. again, thanks for joining me.

I am excited to break down episode five of ancient apocalypse season two. Hopefully you guys watching or listening have been enjoying these recaps. I thought it was just kind of something fresh, new to do. This show, as I've been saying, is pretty controversial. Some people love it. Some people hate it. Some people think Graham Hancock, who's featured in this show, is just a total pseudoscience. Wandabee and others think he's one of the greatest history researchers of all time.

I think it's worth watching, and it's on Netflix if I didn't state that. And I would say it's worth subscribing to Netflix, even if it's just to watch this season and season one. And episode five starts out with Graham in the Amazon again. where he's kind of talking about this ayahuasca, this ancient psychedelic, what would you call it? Not medicine, but... A psychedelic brew. A brew, that was the one. So Graham was breaking down how does taking ayahuasca relate to the strange art of geometric patterns we see and visions of entities?

And it means, in Quechuan, it means vine of souls. And then so it shows Graham, again, investigating this art that we see in the Amazon, that we see in Peru. It's got all these crazy patterns, humanoid-looking beings. And Graham suggests that this was, this ayahuasca was being used as long ago as 13,000 plus years ago in what he calls the last Ice Age. And then it shows him taking us back to the immense geoglyphs we saw in episode one that emerged from the jungle in Brazil. where there's these 3D earthworks that are fantastic to look at, three-dimensional, enormous scale, and again, Graham theorizes, where they basically creating what they saw in their visions from the ayahuasca.

J.T., what did you think about this whole ayahuasca part? I thought it's interesting. Like, just Graham Hancock, just from what I know of him, I was one of those people who found him listening to Rogan years ago. and I found, based on listening to him, I think the only thing he's more interested than ancient stuff is drugs. You knew he was going to go there, and I think it's interesting his take on it. The one thing I found very interesting about his take on ayahuasca was how agnostic he was

about what the Inca supposedly used it for. They used it to drug the victims who they were sacrificing. to help them enter the afterlife. And I was like, well, that is, that's really dark. You know what I mean? Like that he just, he just kind of just goes right past that. Yeah. And I heard him say, yeah, he called it.

It translates into, ayahuasca translates into vine of the souls. I also remember I'm saying to Rogan that it's vine of the debt. And so it's interesting to me, I think if you dig deeper into the legends, of these peoples who live in these lands and they claim like you know their ancestor sometimes they talk about giants having some kind of relation to these these megaliths you know from the book of enoch we know that the deceased nephlum the giants became the spirits and so if that is who they're contacting it kind of makes sense like so if you're literally contacting through this psychedelic brew, the ancestors who likely had a hand in building these things. So I mean,

I do think, I don't think necessarily that he's wrong about that. It is interesting, like, this connection with this ayahuasca and also the things they make. But, you know, in the same way that there is a sacred geometry, I believe that I believe that's even like as a Christian guy, I can point to that and saying that, like the Fibonacci pattern and the things, in nature, it's like, you know, points to a creator. So like that if you, you know, you'll see geometric patterns everywhere if you're looking for them. Maybe they are more vivid because, again, I haven't, I've never experienced anything like that.

I've never, I've never touched anything that strong. You brought up how the Inca did this human sacrifice. And yeah, this is a very dark part of the Inca culture that I don't think most people realize is that the Inca were huge, indisture. human and even child sacrifice. And even when an Inca emperor died, a quantity of his jewels, his wealth, treasure was buried with him, including huge numbers sometimes of his attendance and favorite concubines. Amounting sometimes it said to like a thousand people alone that could be sealed and killed

in his tomb with him. Oh, yeah. And yeah, in one instance, as many as 4,000 servants, court officials, concubines were killed upon the death of Inca, Hawaiian, Koppok in 1527. And so that's just crazy to consider, right? 4,000 people were killed upon the death of this emperor and buried with them. How would you like to be one of those? Oh, gosh.

I guess that's incentive if you're like the doctor and everybody be like, we need to keep him alive. Have you checked on him today? I mean, so were these people, I mean, they weren't buried alive or anything. Were they sacrificed too? I'm like, what? Like how? I mean, I wonder if some were buried alive, but at least if anything, they were sacrificed. And again, I think it probably involved ayahuasca and this whole same thing.

ceremony and they would do it out at these what we call hawakas in peru which were not made by the inca these were the precision carvings that you see of the rock outcroppings and in the caves the trapezoidal doors by which i believe was the earlier megalithic civilization but the inca held these to be so just sacred that this is where they did a lot of their they repurposed them all as like cult centers you know i i can't help but thing and i i i i feel like that the obvious connection to make, especially as all the research I've done, is that if you're contacting these spirits, these ancestor spirits, and when they're using this brew, this drug, they are engaging in human sacrifice, child sacrifice. Is that not demonic? I mean,

it's like kind of like that if we, you know, based on the book of Enoch, and I think you can, you can find biblical you can find scripture or backup for this that yes these unclean spirits were like what we would know today as demons you know like we like in my worldview i don't believe in ghost as in like the ghost of your grandma i believe that there's spirits and they call them familiar spirits and they might know things about you and sometimes people might think that they're contacting a close relative who just recently died but i think based on the way these beings are talked about you know even I think was it like the daughter of the sun? That's the channel you can open to this.

Even think about it. So like that biblically, you could say that the sons of God are angels. And so they had human offspring, and those would be what you would call Nephilim, or like maybe your giants. So the daughter of the son almost does sound like the sun God came down and there you go.

Then this is her daughter. And so this would be like your Nephilim. possibly some kind of a giant being. So when she died, you know, the Book of Enoch says there's really no place for these beings because God really never intended them to be. So some were destined to roam the earth as evil spirits, unclean spirits, and then some were put into the earth. And so when you see what's related to this and contacting them and somehow, obviously,

I believe probably some way pacifying these beings to get knowledge from, it involves sacrifice. That's, I mean, like, that is dark. I mean, like, you know, kind of what, I do think it's, I do think it's, sometimes people don't want to think passes and I don't blame them. Like, why would people sacrifice other people like that? You know, because I don't think it's a normal human instinct to do that. You know, because I think we all recoil when we think, like, why would they do that?

I think that it's very likely that there was, you know, a good reason they did it. I mean, well, maybe not a good reason. reason, but like they had a, there was a method to this madness. Yeah, I don't know if you saw episode four where Graham was in Peru, in Kusko area, and he went to this thing called the Temple of the moon. I broke that down on the last episode of episode four, but it's interesting with what you're saying, a lot of these sites like this one called the, the moon temple, it's in the Kusko Highlands, way up. And you go out, and from a distance, it just looks like an old rock kind of hill outcropping, but you get closer and you realize this thing is severely weathered,

but it was all precision carved. And legends say that it was once actually in the shape of a giant animal. But you see this precision door that goes down like an upside down triangle, and that's the entrance into this subterranean chamber called the Temple of the Moon, also known as the Snake Temple. And as you're walking in, you literally see. see precision cut walls and literally 3D serpents emerging out of the walls that line this hallway that goes down.

So you literally see serpents emerging protruding from the walls. And again, the Inca used this, I believe, is one other places of sacrifice and worship because you go inside. There is an altar. And if you're watching by video, I'll put a picture up of me sitting on this thing. there's an altar where a hole in the cave shines down right on this circular altar, precision cut. But again, the Inca, I believe, found this because according to the legends from our guide, Rumi and others, knowledge keepers, this was a far older temple. And the Inca would come to venerate the entities that literally lived in the subterranean world underneath.

And he said, you don't believe me? he pulls up this rock in this one area of the floor of this cave. And air comes blasting out. And you could literally hear, you know, like a subterranean tunnel cave system underneath, if that makes sense. And again, Rumi says the back steps that used to go down to there have been sealed off. But his point was it wasn't just a supernatural subterranean. world. He says they believe there was actual entities, chimeras, hybrids that were serpentine beings that lived underneath. And they were the ones they were sacrificing to the Inca War. So how crazy is that?

I mean, it, I mean, it kind of all checks out. I mean, it kind of goes with all the other things we're talking about. It's like even even think about so he's saying that that when you so you see geometric shapes and it was almost like he was saying like the first time you do it you see geometric shapes but if you do it more than that many people encounter these things called therions and so therions

were these hybrids between men and beasts so maybe that you know obviously then they see the serpents obviously there's something related to that what I found really interesting is a connection I made a year or two ago and it was about

just to just think about this the names of things. And this could be just a coincidence, but I don't really believe in coincidences anymore. So, so ayahuasca. So, and the research I've done into the occult, there's Lester Crowley. Alester Crowley famously wrote the book of the law. He's the guy and a guy who's got that mantra to do what thou wilt. He's, you know, he founded like a secret society, the Thalemites. Well, interestingly enough, when he wrote the book of the law, he claimed to channel an entity. and he made clear that it was not him who was writing this book. And the being's name was Iwas.

And I thought that's kind of interesting, like, that this was like some kind of a god of ancient Sumar. And, you know, like, as a Christian, I would say that, you know, it's a demonic entity. And part of this book, he wrote that there was, we're approaching this new age. I believe it's probably like the age of Aquarius. and then it was going to be the age of Therion. I thought, you know, so like, think about it. So, like, he's literally talking about, like, this beast thing. So I guess Therion is a Greek word that talks about, like, it's for beast, I think.

Yeah, but he was calling himself Therion 666, the Beast 666, 666. And so, yeah, to think, like, ayahuasca, and he's channeling this ancient entity that's given, him knowledge to write this thing, knowledge of the Kabbalah and all the other things. I think it all checks out. And again, so then you're talking about, like, in Peru, they are doing this. Again, I, that's my belief here. I think it's like, we might just look in, in the Western world in 2024, and we just hear about primitive people doing sick things. I don't think man has ever been stupid. Like, so I don't, I think there's a reason they do these things. And it doesn't mean it's a good reason.

but I do believe they did them for a reason. I don't think that you have the evidence of advanced civilization, and they just did crazy things just on the side. I think that there is a method to the madness. I think that, yeah, like, interesting how it kind of relates even to the mud flood, like all the tunnel systems. Like, how many tunnel systems are around the world? Like, I mean, they're everywhere.

tunnel systems, geoglyphs, geometric patterns, and that's one of the things that Graham weaves through this whole episode. So like he shows us these geoglyphs in the Amazon, and then he says, were these made due to the consumption of ayahuasca? And then he says these are eerily similar to what we see in Ohio in the massive Hopewell ceremonial earthwork mounds there. And if again,

you're watching by video, I'll put some photos and videos up of these mounds, but you can see how they do look right here in Ohio in the United States of America. We have these ancient mounds where this mound culture was thriving in the Great Lakes area. They say approximately 2,000 years ago. And these mounds feature, these earthworks feature ditches and bankments in precise geometrical array. And again, that's what we see in the Amazon. So, Graham's says, are these created by a completely unconnected culture, or did the ancients, were they sharing a shared knowledge that enabled them to do this? And actually, I don't think he was actually on the ground at these mountains, because I think I heard he's been banned from visiting the Ohio

Earthworks. Isn't that crazy? Well, you know, I was wondering that, and we talked a little bit before we got on here, and I was saying, like, that, did I understand why Graham gets branded with the pseudoscience label. But I wonder how much more he is kind of dancing on that line because he really, he's not, he would never go out as far as on the limb as I am. Or maybe he would, just not publicly. But like it feels like he's trying really hard to accept the box of academia puts him in and then theorizing a little bit outside of that when he can. You know, and I think that, I wonder if it's from things like this. It's like that he wouldn't have access to a lot of these sites.

Because he's getting too big. And he's saying these things. And like they would say, no, you can't come here because we don't want a Netflix show saying outlaying just things that do not fit into our narrative. Yeah, no, I think you're on to something. And I would agree that Graham definitely is, like I was telling you,

I've been kind of surprised watching the show. I like it a lot. One thing that surprised me a little bit is that here you've got Graham Hancock, which most, at least in the alternative history camp, would consider to be the pioneer of ancient history from an alternative lens of, meaning there's more than we've been told. He's using precious minutes of each episode to interview no-name people we've never heard of who are touting the mainstream line, right?

and it's like Graham could have used those minutes to tell us something even deeper about this site. But again, maybe he's using it kind of as a bridge to point more to his books, you know, but interesting. No, I think, you know, it's funny, like I could have a lot of things that I could, if I could just, you know, things that I don't like about the things he says. But I'll give him credit for sure about that I probably would not have been interested in a lot of this stuff if I didn't hear. hear him his takes. And I think that like in the same way that I can watch something I find to the far end of outrageous as like ancient aliens. And I thought the show was interesting. And it's like you don't have to believe it all. But I think that I do enjoy that he is going places and he's getting, yeah, audiences that would never accept any of this stuff. Probably like,

because they would see ancient aliens, they would think it's obviously preposterous and not even want to look in any further. But they'll see him going to places. And so even if you don't agree with his conclusions, I do think it's good that people are asking questions of themselves. Like, well, how did they do that? And how are these people connected? Is it possible? And then, yeah, so then they deletes maybe, hopefully, people to do their own research.

And Graham points out how many of these Ohio Earthworks feature precise alignments to specific solstices and equinox. But remarkably, even more than that is he states how they were built to align directly with even more complex lunar cycles, which is crazy when you think about it. Even if these are 2,000 years old, I think that actually might be older. But these people were masters of the heavens in a sense.

Like, why did he ask, why did they have such an intense interest in the heavens, in aligning to the equinoxes, the moon, the solstices. They had this astronomical knowledge that your average person today knows, nothing about. His big takeaway is, is this evidence of a lost civilization that had a legacy of ideas from a far older culture? In speaking of these Ohio mounds, one of the most famous ones is called the serpent mound. Have you heard of that? Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. That one's wild. The serpent mound in

Ohio, everybody's got to Google this and look it up because it's the largest, you know, serpent like effigy on the planet, I believe. Do you find that interesting, J.T, that at a serpent mound was found the skeleton of like, you know, I think it was an eight plus foot skeleton? In Ohio? Yeah. See, I never heard that before. I mean, yeah, that's, yeah, that's obviously very significant. I think that it, yeah, again, if it tracks with everything else that, that if you find elongated skulls in South America, and then you have megaliths and earthworks and mounds and things and you find similar structures, maybe not to the extent in America, it does make sense that there is a connectivity.

That's fascinating though that I've never heard of that. It's funny because I've got my shirt, I've got my research, the Smithsonian shirt on it. Maybe there's a reason I don't know about it's because it's not, it should be something that's obviously widely, widely, widely reported, but it's not. Yeah. Okay, here's the information I was looking for. So this great serpent mound measures 1,370 feet long. It stands three feet high,

and the serpent winds back and forth more than 800 feet in seven coils. And you can see the serpent head. It has an open mouth, which is, looks like it's about to bite an egg, which is interesting. And this area that it's, on straddles what's called an impact meteor crater, which according to Hugh Newman has powerful

magnetic and gravitational anomalies associated with it going deep into the earth. And so, as with many other mounds, serpent mound was built on this magnetic hotspot. Hugh Newman recounts in his book, Giants on record, just prior to 1891, Professor Frederick Ward Putnam, who did all All of the known excavation work at Serpent Mound opened up one of the burial mounds on the property of Great Serpent Mound and unearthed a nine foot long by five foot wide, oh, grave, where the skull fragments inside had twice the usual thickness, according to Putnam. There is also an old postcard that was discovered in the late 1800s of an ancient skeleton during an excavation on the caption reads, skeleton of mound builder seven feet in length. But you can see in the photo, the skeleton's legs are cut off. So Hugh believes it was over eight feet.

So what is believed to be the structure of the mounds? Like what gives them their shape? You know, because obviously if it was just dirt at this point, you know, over thousands of years, it would likely have deteriorated more. So like is there something substantial under there that's giving its shape? Great question. I mean, I guess I've always thought that the unique mounds like the serpent mound is probably mostly just earth compiled and packed. But then like Graham showed Cahokia mound in Illinois, Illinois, and that thing goes way up.

And that thing does have structure components to it. In fact, some of these. mounds, like one of those in Illinois, I was talking to Dr. Greg Little, I did an interview, he was one of the foremost experts on North American mounds. And he was sharing all kinds of discoveries. Like, in some of these mounds, and he's got an old photo of one, there's a massive, what looks like a granite stone block, perfectly squared. And the thing was so massive, the Smithsonian couldn't, they couldn't move it. And so. And so, it's still there and they covered it back up. Oh, wow. So some of these do have stone-like structures. Some of them do

have stone graves in them. But again, one theory that I find very interesting from Dr. Gregor Little is that, because I asked him about giants, you know. Neffalim giant. He calls them Denisivans. They were giants too. But it's kind of a way to not call them Nephilim in a sense. It's a way to be taken a little more serious. So he was saying he believes that he had this ancient culture that life was centered around these mounds. It was the elites who were these giants that lived in and led the ceremonies in these massive mounds. All that to say, it's interesting side note that with mounds, we have to talk about large skeletons as well. After Ohio, episode five finds Graham going to Chaco Canyon, New Mexico.

And it looks like a wind-swept place in the middle of nowhere. And here Graham takes us up close, great 4K footage of some of the most amazing ancient ruins in North America. What were your take on, what was your take, J.T, on Chaco Canyon? For one, I'm really interested because I'm going out west here next week. I'm actually going to Utah. But yeah, I'm super fascinated with the stuff out west. I couldn't help but think that when you see the landscape of that place, is it possible that that was built when it didn't look like that?

Because, I mean, sometimes I just think like that it does make not a lot of sense for people to, you know, like, there's a lot of nice parts of North America now. you know, that people would do stuff in this desolate place. Just like, it looks like, and if they were trying to grow stuff, where were they growing stuff around there? Because they were, because they mentioned like some of the solstice alignments were about crops and things. And it's like, what were they growing out there?

Yeah, it was such a desolate area. And it's like, why would anybody come out to the middle of nowhere to build one of the biggest ancient structures in North America or at least in what we call the United States today in in Chaco Canyon and you see these structures and it's not just one structure there were structures all over kind of the general area there was the one structure I'm trying to remember the name that was the biggest Pueblo Bonita yeah right several stories and it was like this labyrinth of rooms corridors vast circular semi subterranean enclosures and it was this huge construction project that had hundreds of rooms and mysteriously some of these rooms were like made to go

nowhere archaeologists have been working their decades and we still don't have a whole lot of answers onto why this structure is here what were they doing yeah and all they can really attribute to is like rituals were done there it's there i think there's something missing in in their in their story. I mean, for one, I thought, again, it's like they're dealing with the very narrow parameters of like that, I thought was interesting that I listened for. The thing I did not hear there is they were saying they were the ancestors of the Pueblo. And I've always heard them as named as the Anasazi, you know, the ancient ones. Right. And so like, nobody really knows who they are. I mean, people, I think, I believe the, the Pueblo and I think was it the Doby,

Native Americans claim to be related to them. But I mean, nobody really knows because they're like it's like literally the story is that they went missing about a thousand years ago right and we know and we obviously know by now that's just a guesstimate because we really don't know so like what like what did they do and why did they do it I thought the things that were really just like kind of I was just shaking my head when I was here and they were saying it took at least 200 years to build this and they were saying they got that based on the tree rings of the beams in there and I was like wait a minute okay so i mean i could be completely wrong about this because i don't really know about dating things like this but i figured you could date a tree based on how many rings it had

based on how many seasons it's lived you know like each each season it gains a new ring okay so with that being said if you chopped the tree down you made a beam out of it like how do you date something after that and how do you determine that it took 200 years because you had you found two different beams. I was confused by that. And also the funny part was when they were saying like that it was it was aligned to certain solstices and they would have used that to plant their crops. I'm like, but it took a couple hundred years to make though. So like would it, would that have really been a good use of your time? You know, you're trying to determine when the solstices are. I think I think the place is obviously to me, it's like, it's more like a

Like, were rituals done there? Sure, maybe. That sounds plausible. But yeah, like the amount of resources that it would take in to do this, it's, like I said, it's kind of incomprehensible that people in a very primitive time would have done this for what reason? I think, to me, it's always, I always go back to the idea that I don't believe that people who could construct.

you know, could do construction projects like that didn't have good, good reasons. And it wasn't just superstition. I think that there likely was a very practical use of this many resources. I think I do kind of wonder, too, like when you like, even I was thinking about the serpent mounds, it's like, if there is this, you know, evidence of like buried things all around the world, it's like, how, what if you dug way deeper into the ground? and what if that was just the tops of some of these places? Like what if there's stuff that's that's under there that we just don't know about?

Because, yeah, like one, you know, even it's a big building, but at one building, it's like, you had needed a lot of like logistics to construct that. Where were the people living that were building it, right? Yeah, even the official that Graham interviewed there said that construction began about 850 AD. So just fascinating that right here, right here. here ancient civilizations were building this stuff. He says 85080. Maybe it was earlier. But again, the guy even said, like you said, he said the people who built this were we refer to them as the ancestral Pueblo. They settled in the Chaco Canyon and they wanted to be the center of

their culture. Again, archaeologists found more than 100 ritual burials along with pottery, again with strange patterns. They found stuff that came from Mexico and California, seashells, copper bills, I think, from Mexico that were in there. So Graham made the point that it's like they put enormous effort to make this the center of the world out in the middle of nowhere and like people were drawn to this place. And Graham makes the comparison of this place to go back the Tepi,

in Turkey with all the circular Kiva-like structures. One thing I thought Graham said that I'll close on this and turn it over to you, J.T. He said, it's like this Chaco Canyon structure. All of them combined to form a ritual calendar laid out upon the earth. And he basically said Chaco Canyon bears the fingerprints of a culture of highly sophisticated astronomers. And I think he also said it may have been chariotrots. chosen as a terrestrial counterpart to the Milky Way?

What were your thoughts on that? I mean, yeah, I mean, it's very clear, or it's unclear how these people had such a grasp of the heavens that they could do these kind of things. It was tripping me out, especially when he's talking about it, even like you mentioned, that some of these earthworks are lined up with the moon cycles. I mean, really think about how complicated that sounds. You know, the moon is, you can't see the moon all the time. Like, you know, that's, and when you can see it, it's at nighttime.

So the idea that these people have these, what were these moon cycles that were 18 and a half years apart. And these things had some kind of alignment with these things. Yeah, there's, there's so much that would need it to go into that. Like, yeah, so you think about this, that's advanced. That's really advanced, not just the structures, but the idea that they could, they could do these things. and it would be accurate. Right. To some alignment that's in the heavens.

I mean, to me, it's, yeah, again, when these people are talking about contacting entities, it's like, I think you have to believe them when they can do that kind of thing. Like, why else would they, like, how else could you explain it? You know, if you don't believe they have the normal scientific equipment like we would have today, well, how could they do it to that kind of accuracy? I mean, I think it's, there's obviously something there. Yeah, there's so much interesting enigmas and anomalies in that four corners region, whether it's New Mexico, Arizona, Utah.

I did an episode with a lady who has done a lot of research regarding some of the strange petroglyphs in Utah. And there was one, I think it was called the Intua Basin. these are some of the most bizarre petroglyphs you've ever seen. And one of them, you might have seen a picture I posted JT. I call it the six-fingered Bigfoot. This thing's got literally six fingers on one hand, horns coming out of its head and giant feet. I mean, if that's not a strange entity, I don't know what it is.

But to your point, maybe they were just painting what they saw. I mean, I think it makes sense. It's like that I think that in general, like you, you wouldn't add an extra finger to something unless I probably had an extra finger. Like, everybody knows how many fingers everybody's got. You know, it's, that's weird. You know, it's interesting. I was thinking about an old video I made years ago, and I went out to Vegas over at the beginning of the year. And I finally made it over to the Hoover Dam.

And if you go into the Hoover Dam, they have all those designs, like those, the source. same designs you'd find on the pottery, the same designs you'd find through the ayahuasca ceremonies, they have on the floors, on the tarasso floors at the Hoover Dam. I think that's pretty interesting. At one point, I really, I just thought, oh, well, what they would tell you is just it's an homage to the natives. They're there. But interesting, like, when you think about how they got those designs for the pottery. Yeah. I mean, kind of. kind of interesting, like that that's the kind of stuff that they would use to decorate the dam, the Hoover Dam, which obviously is very significant, you know, for all kinds of reasons.

But yeah, I've always wondered that too. But I remember as a kid, I drove out west and we went to like some of the cliff dwellings of like the Anasazi. And it was just like some, it was so bizarre like to think, like, why would they carve into the mountain and put these things in here? and you're like, I wonder, it seems to be, it makes sense to me that there must have been predators on the ground. It could have been wild animals, could have been Therion,

could have been Six-Fingered Giants. Like, why else would they do that instead of build stuff on the ground? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, point taken, you look at the dwellings of the Anasazi way up in those cliffs when they could have just done it on the ground for a million hours less the work, right? Why build up there? What were you trying to hide from? I don't know. It just seems to me like that in the, and I can see obviously what Graham Hancock is saying. Like there's this connectivity between North and South America based on, you know, earthworks, different structures, maybe like the ceremonies.

these people have this commonality between places. And even based on the mainstream take is like that at some point, these peoples walked from the barrens straight and all this kind of stuff, and they made their way down. We really don't even know how old this stuff is. Like, obviously that stuff in Chacoa Canyon, it's ruins. So maybe they're more well preserved in a place like South America, which obviously seems like it's way,

it's way more plush right it doesn't look like such a harsh environment maybe those things lasted in the amazon versus like this desolate area that it does really look like there was a there was an apocalypse there at some point like it that's what it looks like and i mean like it's funny you even think about if you watch post-apocalyptic movies that's where they film them because it looks like whatever worst case scenario in the world could happen it looks like it looks like it happened there at some point in our, I don't know, I don't know when. Well, it was an interesting episode, especially how he weaved the ayahuasca part through all of it. I've talked with a couple of people who have taken ayahuasca, and they've definitely shared that they saw strange entities.

And one of them told me that the entity that revealed themselves to her was quetzikwado. Oh wow. Whom the Inca also called Veracotcha. And so I thought that was kind of wild to hear this story. Yeah. What's interesting is, again, I never realized this until like a year or two ago about that that's why you get like the Native American headdresses that are the feathers. And I was like, oh, wow. Like that's, okay, so that's what the feathers are because, yeah, if they worshipped Amaru in South America and Varacocha,

quix so quote all same thing and so your chief is wearing all the all the feathers so you're saying that's where the feathers do come from yeah yeah no I mean it's it's kind of one of things we're like almost like a oh yeah exactly but I mean you can I guess so you just see these things and again the people have the reasons for doing these kind of things it makes it makes sense if these people obviously for whatever you want to say they're very spiritual people that we're doing this. Well, J.T., thanks for your time. Tell everybody what you're working on next

and how can they follow you? Yeah, I mean, I said, as I mentioned earlier, I'm working on JT's mixtape. And I think that overall, it's kind of like a way for me to talk about lots of things. You know, sometimes things are not worth an hour podcast. Sometimes they're worth about five minutes worth of conversation. And I do, and I want to keep this fun in light.

And so, so you see like obviously the stuff we're talking about the mud flood, stuff like I love talking ancient stuff with, with Derek over here. So, I mean, like, it's anything that's kind of like sticks in my craw, even if it's like the craziest things about like is Kanye clone or as Stevie Wonder, can he see, you know, that kind of stuff. So like, so yeah, if you want to see, if you want to see more of that, mixed in with ancient apocalypse stuff, you know, mud flood stuff. Yeah, you can check, check me out on Instagram. JT follows J. J.C. YouTube. you know, TikTok, all that stuff. But yeah, the podcast is is going to be on YouTube mostly. I do a little stuff on Rumble. Sometimes the videos get a little too hot for YouTube. So we have to, we have to put them to the other side of things just to stay on the safe side.

But yeah, this is, this is awesome. Like I said, I love talking about this stuff because I think that, if anything, it's, it's fun to question this stuff because I think we, how else are we going to figure any of the stuff out? Well, thanks for your time, bro. It's exciting to see all the great content you're putting out. So everybody follow JT. And we'll see you in the new future, bro. All right, man. Appreciate.

God bless.