Megalithic Marvels - Karahan Tepe: Civilization of the Anunnaki and the Cosmic Origins of the Serpent of Eden / Andrew Collins

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

In this exclusive interview I sit down with Andrew Collins, author of the new book "Karahan Tepe: Civilization of the Anunnaki and the Cosmic Origins of the Serpent of Eden." This book is Andrew's two-decade long quest to understand this sister site of Göbekli Tepe. Explaining how Karahan Tepe functioned as a shamanic centre for oracular communications, Andrew shows how the site's rock-cut structures were used to connect with the Galactic bulge and stars of Scorpius in their role as, respectively, the head and active spirit of a world-encircling snake identified with the entire length of the Milky Way. He traces this serpent motif throughout history, identifying it with the biblical serpent of Eden, the Kundalini of Vedic tradition, and the black snake of the Yezidis. He shows also how the founders of Karahan Tepe were recalled in Hebrew myth and legend as the Watchers and Nephilim and in Sumerian and Babylonian mythology as the Anunnaki. These then were the true founders behind Taş Tepeler, the world’s first post ice age civilization, a subject he has championed since the writing of his seminal work “From the Ashes of Angels” in 1995, penned as the first spades were going into the ground at Göbekli Tepe. GET ANDREW'S BOOK JOIN THE 2025 PERU &/OR EASTER ISLAND TOUR

Stargate Voyager Well, I am excited to be joined by Andrew Collins today, author of Kerahan Tepe Civilization of the Anunnaki and the Cosmic Origins of the Serpent of Eden. What a title, Andrew. How are you doing, man? I'm fine, yes. Yeah, the publisher seems to like very long titles.

It's something to do with meta tags, but I think it's overly long, really, but I understand why they're doing it. So, yeah, I'm good. Obviously, we've got lots to talk about, Karahan at the forefront, of course. Yeah, no, I love the title. Man, it's action-packed. So many keywords that catch your attention.

And of course, it's great to be joined by another bald guy wearing all black. I like this. Yes, yes. At least we match each other's attire and appearance. So that's a good start. So let's start out by talking about your 20-year quest to, understand the mysteries of Karahan Tepe, which is Gobeckli Tepe's sister site. Kind of break that down for us, 20 years. Wow.

Yeah, okay. Well, for me, it really begins in the mid-1990s when I was writing a book that would be published under the name from the Ashes of Angels. Now, what this did was to look at all of the myths and legends relating to these mythical beings that were said to have given humanity the rudiments of civilization. In Hebrew myth, you have the watchers and their offspring, the Nephilim. They were said to have taken mortal wives who gave birth to these giant babies, Nephilim, but they also revealed to them the arts and sciences of heaven, and all those arts and sciences are the rudiments of what we would call civilization. Then obviously in Mesopotamian law you had the so-called Anunarchai.

They were the mythical beings that again were said to have given humanity the gift of civilization. They were said to have given us sheep and grain, for instance, which is obviously a metaphor for animal husbandry and agriculture. They were said to have helped us to create the first irrigation ditches, the first cities. So, you know, they're in the same role as the watchers in Hebrew myth. So I wonder whether you were talking about the same beings, basically, but just coming at it from different perspectives. There are similar beings in Iranian myth called the Immortals. You know, they were said to be the semi-divine beings that would give birth to the royal dynasties of Iran, for instance. You know, another similar thing.

Armenian myth has got similar characters as well. and what I was able to do is to pinpoint all of this activity down to a geographical location and that is what we would today call southeastern and eastern Anatolia of modern day Turkey and I predicted that in this area you would find the elements of some kind of high culture created by an incoming shamanic elite possibly bird shamans because it seems to be a lot of evidence that they wore cloaks of feathers, you know, according to the stories, particularly to do with the watchers, and that they were birdmen or eagles or they could fly through the air,

which all sounded very much like shamans to me. And basically what they did was they kick-started the Neolithic Revolution or, you know, in this cradle of civilization, which in biblical terms is remembered under the name the Garden of Eden. Now, this is a general. geographical place. It's mentioned in the Bible, you know, in the same way as it mentions other geographical locations. And Eden is said to be where the four rivers of paradise take their rise. And those four rivers can very easily be identified as the Euphrates, the Tigris,

the Artses, which flows east into the Caspian Sea, and the Great Azarb River, which is a big river of its own, but it eventually will flow into the Tigris, when it will flow. reaches Iraq. And all of these rise in eastern Turkey, all of them. So if they are the four rivers of paradise, then this gives us a geographical location to look for all of this stuff, not just obviously the Garden of Eden, the stories of Adam and Eve, which will come on to, and the serpent of Eden, but also obviously all of the events that took place prior to Abraham, who lived in this area. He was a... a resident of Shanlurfa, which is only about 10 miles away from Quebec-depe.

And according to the story, you know, God contacted him and said, you know, you've got to now move into the promised land that will be inherited by your descendants, you know, go off there now. So he travels off to a place called Iran, which is about 45 minutes drive away from Shanlurfer towards the south. It's very close to the border with Syria. once you cross over to Syria there's a clear route that takes you all the way

to Euphrates over that and eventually you'll come to where Abraham rested which was a place called Chechem modern day Nablas in the West Bank beneath a mountain called Mount Gerrism which was the original mountain of God and here God appears to him again

and said build the first altar and this is where he sets up but we're getting slightly off queue here because all of the events before Abraham in the Book of Genesis are all played out in the area of either southeastern Turkey or northern Syria just over the boulder. So this is the right area. Now, all of this I put in this book from the Ashes of Angels.

It came out in 1996. It was a Times bestseller. And what I didn't know at the time, as I was writing this, was in the very dark nights of 1995 is that during the day, the first spades were going in the ground at Quebec Tate, somewhere I had no knowledge about whatsoever. Obviously, I touched upon the early Neolithic culture of the region. You know, a lot of first for humanity are definitely known to have occurred in that area. You know, the agriculture, animal husbandry, the earliest metalwork, possibly the earliest beer, wine, various other thirst for humanity.

the first built structure, some of the first ceramic idols, and all sorts of things like this. I mean, I put this in the book as sort of evidence that something big was happening in this area. But as I said, I didn't know anything about Quebec-Tape and would not do until the year 2000 when there was a huge spread in a German magazine. And I looked at that and I thought, well, there you go.

You know, there's your smoking gun, basically, of this income. becoming shamanic elite, which I felt came from somewhere else in the ancient world, would come on to that. And, of course, you know, my interest were focused on that thereon. But in 2002, my book from the Ashter of Angels were published in the Turkish Language edition. And two years later, I was invited out to this area to Diyarbakkar, which is the administrative center of southeastern Turkey. As part of this cultural festival, I talked all about this, you know, this area being the Garden of Eden, the cradle of civilization, etc.

And I was given a driver and an interpreter for a week to go around a lot of the sites that I'd been writing about. And whilst I was in the area, I got to hear about this new site that had been discovered called Corahad Tepay. And I saw a picture of a T-shaped pillar, very much like the ones that were. were being found in their dozens at Quebec Leitepe. But this was clearly nothing to do with Quebec. This was another site altogether. So I thought I need to find the site. So a couple of days later, we were in the Tech Tech Mountains,

which is where it was supposedly located, just going around, trying to find it, asking people, and nobody seemed to know where the hell it was at all. But then finally, just as my driver and interpreter were about to give up, they, we talked to this, this guy on a tractor, you know, full Arab dress, because remember you were very close to the Syrian boulder here. And he just pointed in a certain direction. And we came to this farmhouse and a little lad came out.

And he spoke to our interpreter and he pointed to a hill to the south. And I realized that this was Karahan Topay. And as you walked towards it, you could start seeing stone tools. just a few of them here and there but the closer you got to this hill the more and more they became until at its base there were hundreds if not thousands of these stone tools

everywhere what you also had was these limestone angled fragments of what they call pothole stones and these are probably entrances into now lost enclosures either from the side or above

plus you could see sticking out of the hard earthen rubble that was at the base of the hill and on the side of the hill stack these you know the tops of these t-shaped pillars well worn because clearly they'd been exposed for 10 11,000 years but it was quite obvious that something big was going on here and that you know underneath this soil somewhere was another Quebec Le Tepe a sister site of Gebeke-Tepa, as I started to refer to it. So I would continually go back to this site, you know, on many, many occasions, often with my colleague, Hugh Newman and his partner, JJ Ainsworth. And we explored every single heel, every single cave, you know, every single

valley, you know, looking for evidence of human activity, which I eventually ended up writing articles about. But then in 2018 when we were there, we heard that they were about to do a survey of the site in preparation for excavations that would begin the following year, 2019. And then everything went quiet. I didn't go back there in 2019. And then, of course, we had all the lockdowns and, you know, you didn't hear anything at all, really. And then towards the end of 2021, finally, they revealed what they uncovered at Corahamtape. And it was quite literally. And it was quite literally. literally what I now refer to as a lost city of the Anan Archie. I mean, it is extraordinary.

It's at least 11,000 years old. There are at least, you know, 20 different enclosures. Most of them fell in relatively small, but some of them large. And three of them are cut directly out of the bedrock itself. In what can only be described as the earliest rock architecture anywhere in the world. And I mean, one of them, for instance, is this structure that is dropped vertically down, downwards from the level rock surface. And it has 10 pillars that have been left in place, you know, as they've cut down. So they're 10 almost phallic looking pillars with an 11th one that they brought in that looks a bit serpent-like.

And on the wall, facing into the hill, there's this huge human head that's three times of sorts of. size of a normal human head. And it's on the end of a long serpentine neck with like these variations going across it. I mean, it looks like something out of, of a Beetlejuice film, to be honest. I mean, honestly, that's the only similarity that you could give it. And, you know, you just, you start looking at these and you just think, what the hell is going on here?

Well, I mean, a couple of things immediately became apparent. Firstly, that there were alignments towards the solstices here. one I discovered myself in connection with something called the pitch shrine which is next to this other shrine which we call the pillar shrine and this pitch shrine has got this deep hole in the centre of it I mean it drops down about eight or nine feet and there's no obvious way of access into it and it's a mystery as to exactly what it represents but this is aligned towards the summer solstice sunset okay now come back to that a minute but in the pillar shrine itself Hugh and JJ discovered they went there on the winter solstice in 2021 and what they found was that a beam of light of sunlight just after sunrise penetrates through a little um porthole window and hits this giant head and only the giant head. And, you know, ultimately this is arguably the earliest of this type of solar alignment anywhere in the world. And obviously this is something that he's written about extensively.

The whole story is in my book, and he and JJ have actually done an appendix telling the whole story in my book, Corahad Tapay. So the whole story is in there. All of this is in there, obviously. and so you have this so we know that these these rock cut structures of which there are three seem to be aligned towards the solstices they were locked in

to the solstices but in addition to that firstly a couple of years ago we were in Turkey and we take tours out there twice a year and we were looking at a picture of the when I say we I mean me the tour guests in an evening at an overhead picture of the pillar shrine and there's like this

deeply carved groove behind it that almost looks like a sort of neck or body of a of something coming off of it and one lady said oh you know do you think this could represent a human sperm and i thought about it for a moment and i said no it can't be i said because you know these people didn't have microscopes. But then as it sort of sunk here, I thought, what a minute, wait a minute, hold on, what if it's not a sperm? What if it's an actual snake? A snake head? So I, I, I overlaid an indigenous state to that region, to the Tecttec Mountains, which is the Anatolian Meadow Viper, which at that time, I had no confirmation that the people at Corahan even knew, but now I know that they were using it in their rituals, and it fits perfectly. And in other words,

the pillar shrine is a perfect 3D representation of a snake's head. And this is 11,000 years old. And the actual pillars that are sticking up out of the ground, in abstract form, they could easily be seen as the fangs, you know, actually of the snake itself. Oh, wow. I know. I mean, it's bizarre.

I mean, the other shrine next to it, the pillar, sorry, the pit shrine. Sorry, we've given them names that are so similar, is also in the shape of a snake, but a slightly different, you know, form of it. So, you know, what's this thing with the snake? I mean, we know that the first pillar that I saw had a snake crawling up the side. There are snakes all over the place at Carahadtape. You know, they're up there on the ground as you look down, they're on the side of benches, they're crawling up the sides of pillars. So what Why is the snake so important? Well, what I came to the conclusion initially was that they seemed to be venerating some kind of cosmic snake.

You know, in other words, some kind of deity or entity that took the form of a snake. And, you know, I imagined the fact that maybe they were going into altered states of consciousness and channeling this serpentine energy through them. in very much the similar way to the oracle at Delphi, which is a similar thing. Let me explain. Because at Delphi, what you have is a Pythia, a priestess, who would sit on a tripod-shaped seat over a fissure in the rock

where fumes would come up an intoxicator. And these fumes were coming from the dead body of a serpent called Python. I remember rightly. And she would go into an order to state and Apollo, who the temple is dedicated to, would speak through her. In other words,

possess her and she would speak as Apollo and give pronouncements that could decide the fate and destiny of kings, of kingdoms, and even the gods themselves. But what's so interesting is that the form of Apollo

that enters inside the Pythia is not some kind of glowing sun god, you know, as you might expect with Apollo, it's snake. It was Apollo in the form of a snake. You can see this from the various vases that show the, the, the, the oracle, you know, from the Greek period. And if you look into how Apollo appears to people, which is what I did for the book, when it's in terms of a racula, it's in the form of a snake. You know, it can come in the form of, you know, somebody can have a dream or a vision or whatever and the snake will herald the appearance and the presence of Apollo himself. Now, what I imagined is that something similar was going on at Corahan-Tepai,

but then the question becomes, what is this snake? Is it just some kind of conceptual, you know, deity? Or does it have some more grounding in reality? and the answer came from the pit shrine which is orientated towards the summer solstice sunset because if you wait for two hours until it gets dark you see an incredible sight in front of you because at the exact position that the sun has just set you see the milky way going vertically upwards into the sky with this whole dark area in the middle which is called the Dark Rift or the Great Rift or the Cygnus Rift. And right at the base, just setting at this point, is what's known as the Galactic Bulge.

This is the centre. This marks the center of our own Milky Way galaxy. So if you imagine the Milky Way as a huge band that encircles our world, then if you look towards the area of the galactic bulge, it's a big, bright area. And also because you have the dark roof there, it looks like it's split. So, you know, it looks like a mouth opening of a creature. And even though there are different interpretations as to what this creature is, and obviously the body of it is the Milky Way itself,

but generally it's interpreted as a snake or a serpent. And this is found universally around. the world everywhere from your Vedic tradition of India to Mesopotamia, Acadian tradition. It's there in Greek myth, for instance. It's there in Native American myth. It's there in Mesoamerican myth in monks of Maya, most obviously. And if you go south into South America, there are various forms of it there as well. So it's a universal idea that the Milky Way can represent a big,

snake in the sky. And of course, this particular snake is remembered in many different mythologies as the world encircling snake. Now, the most obvious form of this is the Midgard Serpent in Norse mythology, for instance. If you see pictures of the schematic form of the three worlds, the upper world, the middle world and the lower world, you see the earth and you see as a landmass, and you see, as a landmass, see around the outside of that you have this water which is known as the cosmic ocean in which is the world encircling snake the midgard serpent that the the udrasil which is the

world tree that holds everything together has its upper branches in the sky world its trunk obviously in the middle earth and its roots in the lower world or the underworld so you know this is a very easy way of visualising how this world snake was but there seems to be no question that it's associated with the Milky Way and that therefore the idea of connecting with its head and remember that the ancient people believe that the soul or spirit of a being was in their head you know and that goes from humans, you know, that the human skull was removed and cleaned up and used for it at regular purposes as far back as, you know, Quebec-TEPA or whatever. So if they're trying to communicate with this cosmic snake, then clearly they would be looking at the head, at the

galactic bulge, which in the past would have almost looked like a sort of light bulb in the sky, basically. I mean, that's the way that it's been described as far as, you know, commentators, saying how bright it would have been in the past. I mean, so, you know, these are clearly elements of this cosmogynist, cosmology, astronomy of these ancient peoples, which we are beginning to put together. And I think it's far deeper. And, of course, obviously, we'll go on to talk about how the whole Garden of Eden, you know, the serpent of Eden there fits into this as we go along.

Wow, so much to unpack. I'm absolutely fascinated by the giant serpentine head you referenced at Karhont-Tepa, how it just juts out of that enclosure. Like you said, it's got the neck, serpentine features. It's a couple times bigger than a normal size head, like you mentioned. Then there's the giant statue that was on Earth just a couple years ago. It's like seven feet tall, right? Yeah, I mean, this is the latest big discovery.

I mean, stuff's being discovered all the time, but it's such an extraordinary discovery because this is a big enclosure, could be as much as 100 feet across, discovered right on the top of the hill. So clearly it was an important position. It's thought to date probably to about 9,000 BC, and it's got your tea pillars in it.

There's two right at the front with a bench, which is quite clearly an order, altar area where they found various stone plates. They found this beautiful two feet tall vulture that was standing right by the side of the altar facing into the enclosure. And then just to the right of the vulture was, as you said, this huge giant statue. I mean, we can only but call it a giant. It's seven and a half feet tall and that's sitting down.

So, you know, in other words, it's sort of like that. I can't do it on the screen, but, and if it stood up, there's no question it would have been nine feet tall. And it's got this huge head again, you know, similar to the one on the lower level. But this one's much more anatomically perfect. In other words, it looks more, you know, human-like. It's even got ears with holes drilled in it that would have taken earring. So, you know, it seems that it had earrings in the past. You know, you can see its ribs.

They're anatomically correct. He's got this weird mullet haircut. And he's got his hands on his private parts, which there's obviously been the subject of much debate, obviously. And he's big. I mean, you know, so what does he represent? And I think the archaeologists have said, well, you know, clearly he could be an ancestor, you know,

part of an ancestral line and whatever, maybe the phallic nature is to show the growth, you know, the growth, you know, through these lines, whatever. You know, in other words, this is some kind of clan totem or tribal totem. That's possible. I have no problem with that. But what I do have a problem with is its size, because if it's so big, why is it so big? Why does it need to be that size? Now, we know that in ancient Egypt, for instance, there was a mass.

massive dimorphism between, you know, the kings, for instance, and the wives and the princesses would be this size and the king would be that size or whatever. I mean, yeah, okay, and quite clearly that the kings were not giants, so not all of them. Anyway, one of them was, though. But I think what we got here at Carrahan is something more, because remember all of these stories which I started this with, you know, the ones. watchers and the nephaline. These were said to be of enormous size. You know, the nephalin were of incredible size and the watches themselves were said to be as tall as trees. So that definitely suggests that they were oversized individuals. The Anan Archi are not described as giants, not as far as I'm aware. They're described as looking very odd with very strange radiant eyes and possibly serpent-time-like faces,

but I don't think they're described as giants. But I think that we are looking at a figure here that is considered to be a divine ancestor, very much like the largest of the T-pillars at other places like Quebec-Lepe, which can be up to 18 feet tall, you know, the ones in enclosure D at Quebec-depe. and that this is some memory of people who were of large size.

So, you know, who might they have been? Well, I think then we have to start looking at who could have been this shamanic elite, these prime movers behind this post-ice age civilization, which the archaeologists want to refer to under the name Tashteppala, which means the stony heels on the same. stony mounds. The stone because they, you know, they worked in stone and the hills because of the occupational mounds that they create like layer cakes of human activity, which you pick apart to find all of these beautiful enclosures. And they want to see this as the Tash Teppala culture. So who were they?

Well, firstly, I think that there were several different populations or factions or human groups involved. I think you have indigenous peoples who were clearly in southeastern Turkey at this time. You probably had people in the mountains to the east, the Zagros Mountains, who were the Zazian peoples. They almost certainly came down and were part of it. They were quite advanced. You probably had people coming in from the Aegean area and Western Turkey, who we know were incredibly advanced because they were creating seafaring vessels that were going across to Cyprus on a regular basis as early as 11,000 BC. So we know that they were advanced,

and the chances are they were also coming into south-eastern Turkey to help things along. But on top of this, I think that you have this elite group that are the ones that come in and create the whole culture in the first place. And these people, I am pretty certain, come from the north or the east, but their journey starts, I think, as far east as Siberia, in other words, the other side of the Ural Mountains that divide Europe with Asia.

And the reason I say that is because of something I noticed a while ago, and archaeologists have also started catching up on this, is that the style of stone tools that are found in association with Tash Teppala, and the proto-Tazatepola sites, which are much further east on the Rig of Tigris, near Lake Varn, which is a huge inland sea, are stone tools that begin their evolution in Siberia and Mongolia as early as 30,000 years ago, and have been gradually coming into the region in waves, almost like a tide of a sea, gradually making their way into southwestern Asia,

and then obviously ending up eventually in Anatolia. And these are very specific types of tools. They're done in a style known as pressure flaking, which is something that you can't just watch somebody else doing and just copy it. It's a trade that's passed on from teacher to pupil and you have to learn this skill. It's not something you can pick up overnight.

And this becomes like a sort of paper trail, if you like, of the origins of the people of Anatolia behind Tash Teppala, and you can trace it all the way back into Mongolia, certain sites to the south of Lake Bakal, or to the Denisovac cave, which is where we have evidence of this ancient humans known as the Denisovans. and they were incredibly intelligent, incredibly advanced. I mean, for instance, as early as 45,000 to 50,000 years ago, they were producing beautiful jewelry. Just look up the Denisovan bracelet,

which is this greenstone bangle that's beautifully done. I mean, it could have been done, you know, in the last few hundred years, and it's got a drill hole through it, that's been examined by scientists that have concluded, and this is in their paper, that it has a feed rate that's as fast as any modern-day drill. Now, how the hell did they do this? I mean, we're not saying they had modern-day drills, of course not,

but somehow they found a way of penetrating stone very, very fast. They created the first bone needles, for instance, which they were making tailored clothing, the earliest in the world. They were possibly even riding horses. The evidence of DNA of horses found in the Denisov Cave that suggested that they domesticated and possibly even wrote horses.

They created the earliest musical instruments. And there are various, also almost certainly they were the first people that started looking at the movement of the sun and the moon and started recording it in terms of numeric, certain key numbers, because this crops up on one particular item that comes from the Denisov Cave, which is this ivory cave line.

I think it's a mammoth ivory cave lion, which has got a very specific sequence of notches on both sides of it that show an interest in both the sun and its movements. And, Andrew, in that cave that you're referencing inside, wasn't there a massive tooth molar that we've discovered that you would if you look at the size of the tooth and in the body that would be in it it would be a giant entity correct yeah yeah i mean we haven't got much anatomical remains of the dynissivans but what we have got all suggests that they were of extreme size possibly comparable to the largest WWE wrestlers or American footballers

and these are terms that the pale, you know, the paleo geneticists are actually using to describe them. I mean, I've noted them and I've used these terms in the books to say, you know, it's not me saying this, this is the scientists that are actually saying it. And what's so interesting is that just to die, I noticed that there is a new story that came out a couple of days ago, which I missed, about the Chinese have now decided that they have discovered a brand new hominin or human type, which is, and I can't quote exactly what it is, but it's, I think they're calling it homo julaneous, or words like that, which means the big-headed people, okay? I mean, you can't make this stuff up.

And it's quite clear that all of the different craniums or parts of craniums that they're using to define this two new type of hominin includes those that have been found, the teeth of your describing in the denis of a cave, a jawbone that was found on the Tibetan plateau at a place called Zahi, and also a jawbone that was found off of the cover

of Taiwan, as well as a couple of other jawbones and skulls that they found, not skulls, not jaw bones, skulls, that they've actually found in China itself. So basically, they have named, you know, scientifically the Denisovans at last. Now, some of their contemporaries in the West are clearly not accepting this at the moment. and I mean they're aligning it with the largest skull ever studied by science to date. I mean, officially this is, and that's the so-called Dragon Man skull that was found in Harbin in northern China in the 1930s that was then hidden away. But I only resurfaced in the past few years and has been verified by Chinese scientists. they call that homo longi which means basically dragon man the dragon man and this is the reason

that they call it that is because there's a river where the where it was actually found it was found by a chinese worker who was being essentially forced to work on a bridge over the river there can't remember what it's called now at the moment but it basically means there's something dragon basically. And as they were putting the pylons in for it, they found the skull. And so as it wasn't confiscated by the Japanese,

it was hidden away. But the guy essentially just left it where it was and virtually until his deathbed and revealed it, I think, to his grandson or something. And they went and found it was inside a well. And you know, it was then presented to science. So, you know, so in other words,

not only have you got the largest human skull in the Dragon Man's skull but you've now got the the Chinese officially naming the Denisovans and calling them the big-headed people I mean you know

not the small-headed people the big-headed people and the reason being is that the size of their craniums was anything up to 1800 cubic centimetres which I mean I was only reading this earlier on

And I mean, I've got to do a video myself about it. I mean, that's big. That's very, very big. Yeah. They had an incredible brain. Yeah. Is the word Denisovins, is that like a more academic way of possibly seeing descendants of the Nephilim?

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I mean, you've got to be careful when you talk about Nephilim because that's purely Hebrew myth and legend. It doesn't come from any other tradition around the world. So, you know, that's focused through the Hebrew lens, if you like. You know, whereas quite clearly in other parts of the world, even in Mesopotamia, the names are always going to be different.

And as I said, we've got an archive, we can talk about them. And you've got others. I mean, the immortals, for instance, Iran, was said to be of extreme size as well. in Armenia you know you have basically a race of giants who are behind the the ruling dynasties of Armenia you know you have similar ideas

all the way throughout southwest Asia really and as I said it's through the Hebrew or biblical perspective that we have terms like the Watchers and the Nephilim so yeah we should always remember that that name doesn't crop up in any other part of the world.

But yeah, I mean, we are talking about the descendants. I mean, what I think happened was that our early ancestors met the Denisovans in places like Siberia, Mongolia, probably the Tibetan Plateau, obviously China as well. They interbred with them. The Denisovans then died off, but we carried their legacy forward because not only did we have their genes in this now, but we also had their knowledge,

because quite clearly, you know, you would have had a son, let's say, being born or a daughter of a Denisovan father and a human female or the other way around. So we would have been the ones with that legacy and carrying it forward, the knowledge, the technology, the innovation, the mindset. And I think it's that,

that's being carried gradually into southwest Asia and Anatolia. I think that's the way around it works. I mean, obviously we shouldn't forget the Neanderthals as well. I mean, they were mostly on the western side of the Eurasian continent. But they also went up to the area of Siberia, and they also interbred with the Denisovans, just as we did. And in fact, you know, back, let's say, 50,000 years ago, it would have been like a scene out of Lord of the Rings, to be honest.

You'd have had the big guys, which had been the Denisovans. You'd have had the small guys, which would have been the Neanderthals. You'd have had us somewhere in the middle. And then you'd have had the hobbits, you know, the homo Floriansis, the people who they found evidence of their remains on florees, in Indonesia who were probably an offshoot of Homo erectus, who were also still around in some form, no doubt. And so, you know, they would have had all of these different so-called hominids around at this time

contributing to this technology and innovation that's eventually being carried forward into the time of the genesis of civilization. But of course, there are things that get in the way, like the Younger Dryas event. The Younger Dryas event is a 1,200-year mini-ice age that affected the whole of the northern hemisphere that created severe cold climates and pushed, obviously, a lot of people southwards at this time. It came to an end in 9,600 BC. which is the exact date of Quebec Leitepe and almost certainly Corahan as well. But it began in 10,800 BC when we are now pretty certain there was a catastrophe,

a cosmic event involving the fragmentation of a part of a comet that probably came around the sun, came towards the earth, broke up, entered our atmosphere, broke into literally thousands of pieces that very quickly hit the earth, but as they did so, they exploded in what are known as air blasts, devastating, huge swathes of biomass in the northern hemisphere from North America all the way across Europe to the Middle East. In fact, one of the impacts,

they are pretty certain took place at a site called Abu Heraya on the Euphrates, which is only about 150 miles from Quebec-litepe. Now, I'd say this was 10,800 BC, but other terrible events were going on probably for hundreds of years afterwards. You know, more cosmic events. We know that it was a period of darkness. We know that there were mass floods, tsunamis, all the rest of it. This would have been a terrible time to live.

and almost certainly quite a large percentage of humanity was wiped out as well and of course this is something that myself my colleagues you know particularly graham hancock have written about in our books for decades now i mean i first talked about this in from the ashes of angels i you know i brought the whole thing together about the younger dryous impact being a comet in a book called gateway to atlantis in the year 2000 um and you know now it's big business you know the idea that there was this comet impact and that it triggered this mini ice age is something that's very well established. I mean, yes, of course, it's got its detractors, but I think that there is overwhelming

evidence that it did take place. And whether you believe in that or not, the Younger Rice itself had a huge impact upon humanity, not just through migrations, because people would have been trying to move south all the time, you know, because, you know, the further south you could go, clearly that the temperature would get better and better. But, I mean, obviously, displacement. We also know that this was the end of the megafauna, you know, that the animals that had been roaming, the land throughout the so-called, you know, Pleistocene age, geological age. All those were now gone, you know, saber-tooth, tigers, you know, giant camels, giant sloths,

all sorts, mastodons, all these sort of things, all disappeared virtually overnight. And humans as well. I mean, in America alone, it's suggested that up to 75% of the Clovis population just vanished overnight. And those that were left were only around for a very short time afterwards and were replaced by other cultures that clearly probably moved up from the south to take their place. So, you know, it's a very traumatic time. also got to put this into perspective of what was going on at places like Quebecli Tepe and Karahan Tepe. You know, what impact did this event have on their mindset?

And there is a very famous visionary writer by name of Barbara Han Clow. And she wrote a book called Catastrophobia, which was basically about the aftermath of this cosmic event. And basically what she said, and as the title suggests, is that there would have been this state of mind, this catastrophe, this fear of further catastrophes taking place, and that there would have been no psychoanalysts back then. But what you did have is the shamans, the priests, and you could go to them and say, look, yeah, we get scared every time a comet comes into the sky,

what can you do about it? And I think this is where there's shamanic elite, these prime movers behind Taj Teppala came in and stole the show basically because I think what they did was they came in and said look we can sort it all out we have the knowledge of the sky we can you know we we can communicate

with the supernatural creatures the tricksters that cause these type of cataclysms so help us build these enclosures which we will tell you exactly how we want them built with these T-shaped pillars with these animals with, you know, in certain directions, they've got to be a line to stars, blah, blah, blah,

and everything will be okay. And that's exactly what people did for 1,500 years. And I mean, you know, you think about that. I mean, they were building these T-shaped structures for 1,500 years. That's the equivalent of us building churches. You know, the earliest churches in the modern style probably go back to 5,600, you know, AD,

the basilicas in Rome, whatever. And we're still doing it now. You know, we're still putting crosses on altars in the east. Why in the east? Because it's the direction of heaven. You know, I mean, why do we do that? Why don't we, you know, put them in the opposite direction and, you know, and have a five-pointed star instead of a cross?

And the answer is clear because we fear bad things would happen if we did do that. And I think that this is the same. with the T-shaped structures, which we're finding all over the place. I mean, it's not just Gabetli-Tepae or Corahan-Tepae. You know, there's new sites that being opened. Sepa-Tepa.

Seberg, which is just a few miles to the west of Shandlerfa. I mean, you look at them, and there's T-shaped pillars everywhere. I mean, why do you need to do this? What was their obsession with creating structures with all these teapillars.

And the answer, when I look at them, always comes back. They felt they needed to do it. And if they didn't do it, something bad would happen. I think what's important here is that the people that were creating these enclosures are classified as hunter-gatherers. Now, these are the sort of people that, in theory, all they needed to do was, you know, hunt. animals, they got their family, supply it to them, you know, look after them, probably go on

circular routes that would probably take maybe four years, five years, to go around following the herds, etc, etc. That was their lifestyle. What a great life. You all right, yes, of course there were some dangerous animals around, but, you know, a great life. So why would they want to give that up to now all live in an urban environment where you probably all had to get up early in the morning. Everybody had jobs. Everybody was doing something specific. You know, your, your offspring would do exactly the same. Their offspring's offspring would do exactly the same. Yeah, it was the beginning of, you know, the urban life, which is still with us to die. Why would you give up hunter gathering to do this? And clearly, it's fear.

It's fear that something bad is going to happen or is going to happen again. So, you know, that's why I'm looking at it. Regarding the constellations, I mean, there's all this cosmic depictions at these sites. Gobeckley-Tepi, Karahan, Tepe, and didn't they serve as like astronomical observatories? Tell us a little bit about that. All over the world, people align their monuments towards celestial bodies. You know, whether it's the sun or the moon or the planets or the stars or the Milky Way. I mean, that's a very, very important one.

I mean, it's been going on probably for at least 10,000 years, and arguably more. And, I mean, yeah, their papers written to suggest that certain caves were chosen for cave art, specifically because of their orientations towards, let's say, that the solstices or the equinoxes, or a prominent celestial event. So it's been going on a long while. We have it at Carahan Tai. We have it at Quebec. Not only are there, solar alignments there,

but also there's very specific orientations towards stars. In particular, one, which is Deneb, the brightest star in the constellation of Cygnus. Signus is generally seen as a celestial bird, and that's universal. That's whether it's in the Americas, whether it's in the ancient world,

the bird will always change and the bird is usually associated with two things the transmigration of the soul from this world to the next or creation it's a bird of creation and you have these alignments at quebecpe towards deneb but it's not just demeb they're looking at that's simply marking what's behind deneb what's behind it is the northern opening of the dark of the Milky Way. And this was seen universally around the world as a point of entry into the skyworld. The Maya, for instance, referred to it as the Road to Zilbalba, which is a word that's generally interpreted as underworld, but it means other world

or the afterlife, essentially. In Native American tradition, there is the so-called path of soul's death journey, This is something that was adopted by at least 30 to 40 different tribes and would seem to have been archaic even at this time it's there within the iconography of a lot of Native American art that goes back to the Mississippian period, the Adina period, whatever. And this is a journey of the soul and it goes like this.

When a person dies or the soul of a shaman, they would make a leap of faith firstly going to the constellation of Orion in particular an object in it called Messia 42 or M42 and this would allow access onto the Milky Way

they would then go along the Milky Way probably encountering various sky figures which are described in Miss until eventually they come upon like a judge of the afterlife and this will judge the soul whether it's worthy, righteous

or not and if it's worthy it's allowed to continue on into the afterlife if it's not it will either be reincarnated or quite literally devoured by this creature

that's synonymous with the stars of Sculpius but the position of this judge and usually it's a birdman in Native American tradition but it can be other forms as well, is Cygnus. It is a birdman and it's marked by the stars of Cygnus, Deneb in particular, because this is the point where the Milky Way splits into. And it's there in Egyptian myth, it's in, you know, other myths around the world.

And it's there seemingly at Quebec Le Tape, Corahette, and also clearly amongst this whole post, you know, I say civilisation. and I mean they're the most famous of all of the pillars at Quebec Lepa is Pillar 43 Now you know Most people the first things they'll think about Is the so-called manbags on it

And we'll come on to those But the main feature on it is a huge great vulture Now that vulture Represents a Psycho Pump A psycho pomp is the soul carrier It carries the soul from one world to next And on the arm of the vulture

you have this bull this bull represents the head thus the soul of a human individual who's making the transition into the afterlife where's his body is at the base of the pillar

and it's headless and it is actually on the back of another vulture clearly that's being taken off somewhere as well you know probably as part of the ex-carnation or sky burial process which we know was taking place at these sites during this early age. You know, I mean if people don't know what sky burials are just Google Tibet sky burial and some very very gruesome images will come up because it's still played taking place to this day on the Tibetan plateau.

So this is what they would do and it would seem that at some point a belief around that when the vultures flew off after having digested the bodies of these individuals, that they would also be taken away the soul. So wherever the vultures went off to, they were taking the soul into the next life. This is why you've got the vulture there. The archaeologists accept this. I've been saying this for donkey's years now in various of my books. and if you overlay the night sky of 9,600 BC

over the pillar 43 you know, Cygnus is exactly matched with the vulture there's a scorpion below it that exactly matches the position of scorpius and this circle above the wing of the vulture matches the position of what's known as the northern celestial pole this is the turning point of the heavens and in shamanic tradition this was known as the whole

in the sky, the hole in the sky it was the hole that you went from this world into the afterlife you can look this up in let's say Siberian shamanic tradition or Mongolian German tradition it's very very important to their beliefs

and practices and there you have it you know on pillar 43 and then we'll come to the manbag what are these? Now, some of my colleagues say, oh, it's obviously to carry around their drugs, you know, as they're walking about. No, in my opinion, it's got nothing to do with that. Because you have these rectangular, you know, bags, if you like, the rectangular, three of those,

and you have these handles, the handles are not central, they're offset to one side. Clearly they're not handbags, obviously, because, you know, when'd you make a handbag with offset handles? there's something else and in my opinion they represent the three worlds which is a universal principle that is still important to peoples of that region to this die

and it's certainly very important let's say in Vedic tradition amongst the peoples of the Hindu faiths it's there obviously in Native American tradition and obviously it's there in other parts of the world in different faults

the idea that there's three different worlds. Now, the term world may not be the best. I mean, realms is a better way of looking at it. You have our realm with its sky, then you have a lower realm, which also has its own sky. You know, think in terms of something like the hollow earth, if you like, you know, that's it. You know, obviously when you see depictions of the hollow earth, it's got its own sky. Right. And it's the same but the sky world. The sky world or the afterlife was also seen to be essentially similar to our world, but clearly a better place or a perfect life or whatever, you know. And all three of these worlds float within the cosmic ocean.

And this is shown around the manbags on Pillar 43 as these series of chevrons all above it, all the sides of it. And from the head of the vulture, you have these blocks going right the way across the water to the head of another bird which is a wader bird now the wader bird is a symbol of the sky world because of these three man bags

each one has a little animal next to it as if like that's its symbol what we consider to be the sky world has got a wader bird almost certainly a flamingo next to it the middle one has got a leopard on it representing the middle world

and the lower world manbag has got a toad or a frog next to it and that is a universal symbol of the underworld basically so what all of this is telling us is that this is a monomic

teaching device that would have been used for for trainee priests or shamans or initiates or whatever to tell them what happens when they get into an altered state, that's what you're going to encounter

if you go into these other worlds. This is what you're going to encounter if you go to the sky world. This is what you encounter if you go into the underworld. This is essentially the sky. And as I said, if you put the sky of 9,600

BC over Pillar 43, it matches almost perfectly. A couple things I want to go back to that you've hit on. So you believe this area of Gobeckli-Tepe and Karan-Tepa-Petepe, it was the cradle of civilization. You write in your new book how even local legends talk about Adam and Eve being expelled from the garden and going, I believe, near Haran. So tell us a little bit about that.

And then you also mentioned that you believe the actual builders of these sites, Go-Bekly-Tepi, Karan-Tepi, were of your... enormous size. And then you mentioned something that was just really interesting how basically serpent-like priests at Karhan Tepe and allowing this cosmic snake to enter participants during these shamanic rituals, it would have been like similar to being possessed by other snake ghosts. Talk a little bit about that. Okay. Well, let's start with that first. Well, I mean, obviously I've tried to, you know, formalise what I think might have been going on at Carahan. And, of course, the only way that we can really gain any kind of idea is to look at contemporary

shamanic activities or religious activities that, you know, there are records of, you know, ethnographic records, you know, and they include, for instance, the fact that in parts of the world, even to this die, there are snake cults where people, invite a god in the form of a snake to enter inside them and I mean for instance you know the cult of Dambala in the Voodun traditions of Haiti for instance people when they become possessed by Dambala you know they will literally fall onto the ground and ride around as snakes and will the the God will speak through them.

And the same happens in this religious festival in Thailand that I described. There were I can't remember the exact details of it at the moment, but basically there's a religious festival where people

guys in the morning will get these tattoos done of serpents with chymic scripts written on them and yeah these tattoos will be done with a mixture of of the ink, but also cigarette ash,

but also sometimes the venom of snakes. And, you know, then the preceding start and what eventually happens is that, you know, the snake god actually you know, possesses

individuals and as happens in voodoo, they will fall on the ground and they will rithe around like snakes. And, you know, you've got stuff like this. Of course, you've got very similar things of people speaking tongues within certain, you know, very, you know, fundamental Christian groups, for instance, you know, who, that also use snakes. And what's important is that if something like this was

going on at Carahan-Tepai, I think that it would have been like what was going on with the oracle at Delphi, but in a much rorer, deeper level. You know, and I think that, you know, if we saw these people, we think they were completely mad. I mean, you know, they'd be writhing around like snakes and probably be covered in, in dirt, you know, black paint, white paint and whatever. They don't look like mad people, but not being funny, but, you know, that's what most true shamans should look like in all honesty.

But there was obviously a method in their, madness because these people had an incredible understanding of technology and innovation. And clearly, that understanding of the stars, the movement of the stars, you know, of creating, carving bedrock enclosures, something which clearly is part of a tradition that went back probably thousands of years. I mean, you know, obviously my colleague Graham Hancock obviously looks for this lost civilization. that's obviously the rallying banner of this whole idea of a lost technology but I mean this is something which I think has probably developed very

gradually across thousands of years and here it is in full flyer at Carahan in particular I mean Quebec I take as something slightly different I mean to me Quebec Lee is it's almost like a cathedral you know in the Catholic Church you know you go inside there's you know there's a main altar and chancel and the rest of it and then you have all these side chapels where you have the veneration of different saints and the virgin mary and whatever else yeah well to me quebecli is like that you know you have so many different enclosures um some of them very small that they're clearly places where probably a particular family group maybe or representatives of a clan would come every year

to indulge in some kind of religious or shamanic activity, maybe healing, maybe dream incubation, stuff like this. Now, I think something similar was going on at Karaham, but it was much rorer. Whatever they were doing there, they had purpose. And, you know, to me, if Gobet-Lepetepe can be seen as a Catholic site, Karahang-Tepa can be seen as a Gnostic site, a place where these people are trying to understand

nosis, knowledge, wisdom, and are trying to understand what we would call today ontological questions. You know, who are we? Where do we come from? What is out there? Is there a God? What happens after death?

You know, and on top of this, they are gaining communications with an entity which they see as synonymous with the galactic bulge. Now the galactic bulge, as I mentioned earlier, marks the centre of our own Milky Way galaxy. What do we have at the centre of our own Milky Way galaxy, but a supermassive black hole, which is referred to as Sagittarius A-star. Now, Rupert Sheldrake, one of the great free thinkers of our time,

actually has put forward a theory suggesting that our super-executive, massive black hole, Sagittarius A-star, could be an intelligent thinking, living being in its own right. And that if that's the case, then it's almost like a sort of localized form of God, you know, that tends over its own creation. And its own creation is the matter that forms the star systems and, you know, everything else within our own galaxy. So in other words, that intelligence is something that could be influencing us in some unconscious, you know, quantum entangled way, in some way. So is it possible that the people of Karahan-Tepa really were communicating with a genuine entity that was associated with the very direction of focus? in other words, the galactic bulge, or was it just coincidence

that they happened to be looking in that direction because it was a bright area of the sky. Obviously, we can't say, but I'd like to think that their intuition was connecting with something higher, some kind of higher consciousness, and that this was giving them information or certainly triggering what we'd call downloads of information

which was helping their culture, their civilization to evolve and to become the first post-ISA civilization. Now we come on to the Garden of Eden. Now, as I mentioned before, the four rivers of paradise define where Eden was, and that is southeastern and eastern Turkey. And there are places, you know, in this territory that do claim to be the Garden of Eden. for instance, it said that the Garden of Eden lies beneath the waters of Lake Vaugh in eastern Turkey where it has been since it was drowned at the time of the great flood of Noah, for instance.

There was an Armenian monastery near the East Turkish city of Mush. I've been there. This is the whole story of this in my book, Govaitly-Sepa genesis of the gods. and these people believed that they actually had a tree that was grown from the original tree of life in the Garden of Eden and they would do special ceremonies relating to it they would create this sacred oil that was used by the Armenian church

for all the preliots and prelates and the rest of it would be you know bathed in this oil whatever I've been there you know credible story but the most important of these stories comes from Chamlurfer itself. And this is right in the heart of these Tash Teppala sites. In fact, there was a big Tash Teppala site there.

You know, one of the products of which is Erfaman, which is this incredible statue. And there's a picture of it right behind me. I might as pick it up. This was actually found in Shandlerpha. That's called Erfaman. I mean, this is six and a half feet tall. and it was just found during

renovation work but excavations revealed that it was part of a big series of enclosures right by what's known as the pools of Abraham which is where supposedly Abraham was born and brought up and came up against this tyrant called Nimrod so this

supposedly was the true Garden of Eden the most ancient name for Shanlurfa which is known as Edessa in the Bible is Adama. Adama means the place of Adam. And why it's called that is because, according to the local story, they're still told to this day. I'd describe all this in the book. You know, I mean, I heard these stories bit by bit across the years

visiting Shandlerfa, but it wasn't until somebody came up to me, a lady, came up to me and a couple of Turkish friends of mine. and basically we were standing in the reproduction you know that the life size reproduction of enclosure D at Quebec Lepe and this lady came up and she's in Turkish and she was basically pointing towards them and said you know do you think that these pillars are the pillars that were said to be in the first Carver

which was founded by Abra. according to Islamic mystical tradition. Said, sorry? You know, to tell us more, you know, tell us more about this story. And she then recounted the whole story about Adam and Eve and how that Shandlerfa was a Dharma and the place where Adam, you know, the terrestrial paradise

and how they were kicked out of paradise and they went on to the near-breda. by Haram Plain. And, I mean, obviously the story that we know from the book of Genesis is that Adam and Eva are in the garden, live in their life, and suddenly a serpent comes into the midst of them and says, you know, won't you eat of that tree over there, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? So they pick the fruit, which is a really interesting thing.

I mean, our idea that this is a nice rosy red apple is completely false because the actual word in Hebrew, and I can't remember at the moment, but the word in Hebrew that means fruit also means seed and can mean a seed of wheat, basically, and in some traditions, particularly in Islamic tradition, the fruit is actually a stalk of wheat. So in other words, this is a metaphor for the creation of agriculture, which we know took place in this region.

I mean, within sight of Gabetli-Tepai. But anyway, so lest Adam and Eve eat of the other tree, the tree of life, and become immortal, God kicks them out. And they go onto the Haram plain, according to the local story. And here they have to till the land, and they have to find something to plant. And so Adam turns around to Eve and says, well, we're going to plant. So she's, oh, what about this that I brought out of heaven?

It just happens to be in my hand. And it's a stalk of wheat. Oh, yeah, that's a great idea. So they plant this wheat. And for the first several years, the yield is next to nothing, apparently. And it's, you know, the toiling the land is really difficult, the rest of it. But then a bull comes along. And they realize that they can, you know,

use this bull for plowing and whatever else and the yield increases and they'll have happily ever after until they die presumably but what's interesting is that this story says that to give thanks to the bull you know to allow them for the success of this agriculture the growing of the wheat they kissed the bull on the head or the forehead every year you know as part of some kind of ritual, ceremony. And you think, that's a bit odd, isn't it? Well, but then you realize what the bull is. The bull is not a physical bull. It's the earth itself. Because if you ask the peoples of southeastern or eastern Turkey, what the book, you know, about the bull, for instance, they would say that it's the earth itself and that the horns of the bull hold up the heavens and that every

time that the bull shakes, you get earthquakes, you get volcanoes, you get thunderstorms. Yeah, that's what they say even to this day. I mean, I first learned this from the guide that we go with, you know, on our tours. And somehow it just came up in conversation. I said, what? I said, people still believe that now. And he said, yeah, absolutely. And I then started asking around.

And yeah, I mean, you know, lots of other people, particularly the curse. British people of the region, you know, firmly believe that. And it starts to make sense of a lot of religious iconography of statues and things like this, of balls and stuff like that, that you see in Schaulner for Archaeological Museum, which, by the way, is just an extraordinary, my favorite museum in the world. It's just got so much from Quebectepe and Carahan and all these other, you know, Tashatepala sites. But so, okay, so that's, that's it. Now, the agriculture part is quite easy because quite, you know,

this is a memory, I think, of the fact that wheat was domesticated and widely grown for the first time in this region. Okay. I mean, it's something like 60 different varieties of modern wheat that we use for everything from making bread to beer to cakes to pasta. can be traced back genetically to a wild variety that grows to this day on the sides of an extinct volcano within sight of Quebec-Tepa. And you can see it just as well from Karaan,

just up the open Kauran as well. That's called Karajadar. So that's fine. But what about the serpent? What is this serpent? And I think that this is a memory of this snake shamanism that was taking place at sites like Carahan Topai. And the idea of that serpent communicating with them is essentially this cosmic serpent coming into the people and giving auricular pronouncements basically. And what's interesting, of course, is that the serpent in the story of the Garden of Eden

originally has arms and legs. And it's only when God turns to the serpent after he's beguiled, you know, Adam and Eve, that God says, right, that's it, you know, you're losing your arms and legs. You're going to forever ride around on the floor. So that's interesting. You know, the fact is that this snake had. arms and legs. To me, we presumably are looking at a shaman here. You know, this is a snake shaman or a shamaness, you know, that are clearly in that form. And there's a lot of

relationship, by the way, between snake and Eve. I mean, the term Eve has the same root as snake as it has life, basically, you know, in Hebrew, Aramaic, Semitic languages. And it's almost like Eve herself is almost like a sort of personification in some way of that snake of snake in the Garden of Eden. I mean, again, I go into this in detail in the new book, but weirdly enough, I talk about it in from the Ashes of Angels, which goes back to 1996. I mean, I go into a huge detail about the snake cults relating to the early Neolithic of this region there. So this is nothing new, really. This has been a great interview. Andrew, let's close with. with one more question for you.

You've been to Gobeckley-Tepi and Karan-Tepi so many times you've written all these books about these sites. Let's talk about this growing controversy surrounding what's going on at Gobeckley-Tepi. There's reports of concrete being poured over areas, orchards planted. What's going on? Let's set the record straight, shall we? Okay, let's start with the trees.

The trees are olive, orchards of olive. orchards of olive trees and they were planted by the family that owns the land now owns Quebec Leitepe they were planted around 2004 because they first appear on the maps the following year and the reason that they they planted them was to increase the value of the land because if land has trees on it as opposed to let's say just, you know, arable, you know, plowed land, it's worth as much as 10 times more than it is without those trees. So they deliberately did that to increase the value of their land

because they knew eventually they would have to sell that land to the archaeologists or the government. I mean, to be honest, it was a futile thing to do because they were going to lose that land and get whatever the government paid them any way. way. And even to this day, it's still going through the courts, you know, about the ownership of the land, you know, what monies go to who and whatever. So it's a very complicated matter. But that's there. It was not done for any malicious reason. The other important thing, people said, oh, those olive trees are destroyed all the archaeology. Well, olive trees have very shallow roots that only go down a couple of feet. So they really are not. going to destroy the archaeology. You know, I mean, yeah, right, they might destroy something down to a couple of feet,

but nothing really be beyond that, in all honesty. Right, so that's the trees out way. The concrete, the only concrete that's actually on Quebecli Tapay itself, which is about, what, 300 by 200 metres by 50 metres tall, is that some concrete, you can't remember now, is that some concrete went into the ground when they were creating the pylons to hold up the roof, yes.

But that's the only, and obviously they excavated all of those areas first, down as far as they could get to the bedrock. So, you know, in theory, they didn't destroy any archaeology. I mean, yeah, all right, the archaeologists probably didn't like this idea, but it was going to happen anyway.

So that's the only cement. The roads with the cement are nothing to do with the actual site itself. That's the approach road. And from the visitor centre, there is wooden. Well, there's like a little access road, but that's always been there that goes up to the site. But when you get to the site, there is a wooden walkway that takes you all the way around

and it hasn't got any concrete at all. So that's essentially false. The idea that they want to shut down excavations for 150 years, that's false. The truth of the matter is that, yes, archaeologists do like to set aside certain areas of a site because they believe that the coming generations of archaeologists will have better techniques to be able to, you know, to analyze the rest of it, all the soil and pollen and other artifacts and, you know, dating, etc., etc. That's fair enough. And the fact is that excavations did stop at Quebectepe for several years. Nothing took place whatsoever.

And this was from probably about 2015 through to about 2022. Nothing happened. But then they started to re-look at the areas of the enclosures that were already opened. Enclosure D was looked at last year. They're currently working on enclosure B again, clearing out whole areas that had previously been left, you know, the way that they'd found them. Plus, I know that next year, they're opening it, they're opening up a whole new area.

I mean, brand new area of Quebec-Tepa. So, you know, that's that. The World Economic Forum are now in control of Quebec-Lepa as part of their takeover of world population. Yes, that's not really right as well. Because the company that invested and put all the money up to Quebec-Tepa was the Dogos, group, dogoss group. And they made all their money, all their billions, with oil, essentially. The family behind it is one of the richest families in the country.

And they put, I can't remember how much it was, let's say, 15, 20 million euros, I think it was, into creating the roofs, there, the walkways, they bought the mini-buses, they created the Vista Centre. And yes, they are members of the World Economic Forum. But so is Coca-Cola. So is Google. I mean, you know, it's a case of so-what, really. And yes, a ice sculptor of Quebec.

Yeah, was it Gabi Tapa, I think, was actually on display at one of the Davos meetings of the World Economic Forum a few years ago. presumably this was part of the Dogos group showing hey look what we're doing so you know there's not a huge conspiracy to cover up stuff there so yeah a lot of this is taken completely out of context

and the problem with all of this is that it's completely infuriating the archaeologists and they tar all of us with the same brush you know even though I certainly that, you know, have not been spreading rumors relating to these sites.

You know, all the archaeologists and bad things have been said about the archaeologists as well quite publicly. But the only trouble is that they tire us all with the same brush, really. And, you know, that's making life more difficult for people like Hugh Newman and myself, you know, when we go out of these sites.

Because, you know, all we're there is fact-finding, collecting information, obviously we want to take photographs, do videos or whatever, and it's becoming more and more difficult. Now, just to let your people know, next year they're going to be putting a roof and a glass walkway through Corahan-Tepai. And if it's anything like what they did at Quebec-Tepai,

this is going to mean that the site will close for, I'm going to say, a minimum of a year, year. It may be less, I don't know, but I mean, with Quebecli, I think it was closed for something like a year and a half. And I mean, I went there. I went to Quebecli-Sepa, in the middle of them putting the roofs up, and it was a mess. I mean, there were huge giant girders and all over the place. Plant, you know, vehicles, it was just, you think, how the hell are they ever going to, you know, put this back together? But they did. And obviously, You know, they got the roof on it.

So I'm going to imagine that something similar is going to go on at Carahan-Tay. So I'm going to say to people, look, if you want to go to Caraham, make sure you go before about August, September next year. Our next tour out there is next mail. I say, ours, me, Hugh Newman, JJ Ainsworth as part of the Megalithomania crew. I mean, you can find all the details of these tours on Andrew Collins. or a megalithomania.com. UK.

And yeah, I mean, come with us. I mean, you know, their voyages of discovery, you know, they're not just, you know, your average tour where you go and lie on the beach for half the week. I mean, you know, yeah, I mean, often we, all the people with us, make discoveries which will essentially go in the history books. So come along to those. But sorry, I've gone into the commercial side of things.

No, that's great. Yeah, everybody can go to, uh, I think you said, Andrew Collins.net, right? No, no, Andrew Collins.com. Andrew Collins.com to find information on this tour. Nobody better to go to a tour to Sego Beckley-Tepin-Carond than Andrew Collins and Hugh Newman and the gang.

Also, Andrew, tell people where they can follow you on social media and how best they can purchase your new book. Yeah, I mean, go to Andrew Collins.com. All of the links to social media are on the, opening page, the landing page there. And also, obviously, there's articles about all that we've been talking about here on there.

There's links, obviously, to where you can get the new book, which is Karahantepai, civilization of the Ananarchae and the cosmic origins of the... Serpent of Eden. The serpent of Eden. That's it. Yeah, you got it. Right. And, you know, and obviously I've got lots of other wonderful books as well.

I mean, check out from the Ashes. of Angels if you've not read that. And yeah, I mean, you know, if you want to contact us, either do it through social media or you can contact me by email via the website. So, you know, I hope to hear from some of you. Awesome. Well, Andrew, thank you again so much for your time and just your insight on these incredible sites.

I'm really excited about your new book. I'm hoping it becomes a next bestseller. and maybe we'll do a recap interview in the near future. We will indeed. As I said, I'm just about to drop a major article all about Stonehenge's altar stone, which we now know comes from Northeastern Scotland, and it's the search for its lost companion. So watch out for that, for the links for that,

over social media in the next couple of days as well. Sounds good. So to everybody watching or listening, follow Andrew. buy his book, go on tour with him in it's May of 2025, right? Yeah, that's the next one. We got one in September as well. That mostly concentrates on the eastern part of the country, but we also go to Quebec and Corahan and the other Chachitepella sites where we can.

But as I said, we think work is going to start on Corahan-Tipe around September next year. I mean, it could be booked back, but as I said, you know if you really want to go go before that time i would say well andrew thank you so much and best of luck thank you very much