Megalithic Marvels - The Gobekli Tepe Controversy / Wandering Wolf & Nikkiana Jones

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

Gobekli Tepe, one of the oldest and most important archaeological sites on planet Earth is rewriting history in more ways than one. Being that it dates back to approximately 9,600 BC, it challenges long-held assumptions about the development of human civilization, particularly the relationship between agriculture, religion, and the rise of complex societies. This era is often referred to as the Pre-Pottery Neolithic period, when humans were still thought to be primarily nomadic hunter-gatherers. Conventional wisdom held that large, organized societies only emerged after agriculture developed, but Göbekli Tepe flips that narrative.Gobekli Tepe is now also at the center of a massive controversy that is spilling over even into mainstream pop culture... Namely, why has only approximately 5% of this most important prehistoric site been excavated? Why are those in charge of this site stating that they will leave it to future generations, some 150 years from now, to finish excavating it? With all that has still yet to be excavated at Gobekli Tepe, why were large tree orchards planted over much of this sacred site and why was a massive permanent roof erected over it that features large metal beams and concrete that penetrate deep into the middle of this age old archaeological site?Fresh off their under-cover expedition to Turkey, I sit down with researchers-explorers-youtubers Michael Collins (Wandering Wolf) & Nikkiana Jones to get the latest-up-to-date-information regarding what is actually happening on the ground at Gobekli Tepe. You don't want to miss this.Follow Wandering Wolf & Nikkiana Jones JOIN US ON THE ISRAEL TOUR MARCH 2026

Stargate Voyager. Well, I am super excited to be joined by two researchers, explorers, YouTubers, they kind of do it all. Nickyanna Jones and Michael Collins, otherwise known as Wandering Wolf. How you guys doing? Good, how are you? Thank you for having us on, Derek. Yeah, thank you very much. Excited about this.

You guys recently got back from Turkey, traveling the world, and you went to Gobeckli-Tepe. Becli Tepe, I believe you to Karahan Tepe and documented so much great video content. And it seems like Turkey and Gobeckli Tepe and these sites have been in the news so much lately, so much controversy. So I'm just excited. I want to hear it straight from the horse's mouth, you guys who were there, what you saw. And but before we jump into that, would love to just get your quick take on the latest controversy surrounding the Great Pyramids and the Kauffrey Pyramid and these alleged discoveries.

I'd love to hear Ichi, real quote, just your instant take. I actually just talked to Muhammad Ibrahim earlier today. I interviewed him. But I am not as skeptical as everybody else is, which is odd. I listened to two days ago that Felipe, like the two scientists came out about it, the people who were doing the radar scanning. And my biggest thing about it before it started was that they should have had controls. Like they should have showed what Darren Kuru looks like,

like verify places that we already know what they look like underground before you come out, swinging the big guns with like the pyramids. But they apparently did. And they haven't actually released the scientific paper yet. But they even were showing on this interview with that Jay Anderson guy, Project Unity, it was like showing like this, like what it looks like on the bridges and this and that. And they were saying that even for. different coordinates in different places.

Like it's not like it only showed these particular angles from one area. They could get it to do it from every which angle. And they ignored it for four years themselves before they finally started going. Like, I think we're picking up on something more than we think we are. And, okay, so that's one thing. So, like, I think I was a little, because I was like, this is crap. I don't like this. And I was like, how are you going to get?

Like, at first I was super, super skeptical. But then the other thing is, Okay, they are on something. They're not just laying on bedrock. Like every single one of those blocks weighs between like 1.5 to 50,000 tons. I mean, you're talking about like you have buses to SUV to like Boeing 737 size and weight of blocks. If you have that just on the bedrock or you have that on whatever sand or whatever kind of soil, you're going to have a lot of shift if there isn't some crazy underground.

the amount of weight of the pyramids in general like means that there should be some crazy kind of structure to hold them up and them to be like even within like one eighth of an inch even now even if you want to say they're 6,000 years old or whatever much mainstream people are not mainstream people claim they're old as hell there's got to be some kind of crazy structure underneath there and there's so many rumors for so long even if you want to take like those siren shaft or the subterranean chamber that's a below ground I do think it's a whole underground city that we're just not allowed to explore. That's my take. And let me ask you real quick, does Muhammad kind of share those same feelings? Yeah, he was like, oh, he's like, he's like, oh, everybody who's around it all the time has known forever that there's all these underground tunnels. So he's like, he's like, I'm not at all surprised. He's like, and I don't care, he said something like, he's like, I don't care what those scans show you one way or another. Like, I could have told you there were underground, there's an underground city underneath there. And, you know, there's a lot of, like, there's a lot of rumors that there's underground tunnels that run from Sakara all the way to the Giza Plateau.

And I've heard that, like, I don't know, I've heard that, like, in 20 different articles I've read throughout my life. I mean, that's not just like a one person saying that. That's something that is kind of rumored about for a long time. I think it's on my end I probably I don't know if skeptical is the right word but I'm I'm more reserved I think you know I haven't I've kind of stayed out of this one and haven't really wanted to throw my hat into the ring

for one side or the other just to kind of wait and see what's you know some of the as some of the data gets peer reviewed or looked over better and things come out I don't think that we're going to, you know, unfortunately, I don't think like we're just all of a sudden because of this information. People outside of certain positions within Egypt are going to get access to just go look and verify any of this. I can't see any of that happening anytime soon. I believe that there's underground stuff going on there.

Like Nikki pointed out, you know, this is stuff that's been written about for a long time and people that have like had opportunities to like get down there and explain. a little bit have talked about this. And so I think there's absolutely stuff down there. And I think it's a really unfortunate situation because, like I said, I don't think anybody's going to allow any outside person to actually go down in there and investigate. I just can't see, you know, the Egyptian government or, you know, anybody in charge over there allowing anybody outside of

I agree with that. People involved in the government there having access to any of that. And even if they did, I don't think they'd release it. So I think this is more of something that we're just, it's going to be a head scratcher for a long time. And, you know, that's unfortunate. But I think that's probably the reality of the situation.

I'm excited about the potential for this discovery, alleged discovery, especially if they can kind of prove their method, you know, like many people have talked about, if they can scan a chamber that we already know exists, and then say, look, here's our scan. It shows the exact same thing. Then I think there's going to be way less skeptics. But I think you're right, guys, they're not going to just let outsiders truly go down there and reveal what's down there. But I've told people, no matter what happens with this, well, first of all, I like what Christopher Dunn said. If this turns out to be a nothing burger,

it's a more compelling theory than the pyramids is tombs theory. I like how we put that. Yes, agree. I don't know. Are people still holding on to that, that the pyramids were tombs? Yeah, I think so. I never passed that a while back. Right.

But no matter what happens with this, I believe we already have the smoking gun proof for lost ancient technology in Egypt, lost civilizations, just when we go inside the pyramid itself, when we go to the Aswan quarry, and you see the one meter scoop marks all along these massive monstrosities. They literally had some ancient device that could penetrate and pull out these one meter scoops from top to bottom. one meter wide, I should say. And, you know, you guys have probably seen that box in the Cairo Museum. It's literally sliced on the left side.

I mean, there's so many little things like that. There was more going on than we've been told. And so it's exciting to say nonetheless. But let's talk about Turkey. So much to get into, so much, man, hand-wringing over this site, mainstream. and, you know, kind of us in the alternative history camp. So maybe you guys could just kind of give a quick brief overview of kind of the controversy and how this all started within the last couple of years it seems like.

And then what led to your trip down there, what you saw, and we'll just riff on it. I think a lot of the controversy started when Jimmy, Corsetti from Bright InSight, really started pushing hard against the trees. there's really starting, you know, obviously, Go Becli-Tepi is its own thing and it was. It's been, it's, you know, the oldest site in the world. It has all these implications behind it. It's rewriting history in real time in terms of, you know, our understanding of, you know, apparently hunter-gatherers or whatever, you know, created these structures, right?

So this is, it was already a huge, massive site on the radar and everybody's radar. But I think it really started kicking off the controversy when Jimmy started pointing out these trees on the site. And that continued to escalate. Now, Nikki and I were doing a tour in November this year coming up to Turkey. And so we were going over there already to kind of scout ahead. Make sure we knew what we were looking at and had seen all this stuff, right? We had an opportunity to pair up with Jimmy. We kind of kept it all under the radar.

just because of all the controversy going on between Jimmy and the archaeological community, as well as the Turkish government. So getting over there, when we got to go Becli-Tepi, obviously we wanted to see the site, but we wanted to document the trees too, and we happened to be there on the very last day that they were removing the trees. So we actually got to film them in real time removing the very last of the trees and hauling them off. And so, you know, I think it's... especially for Jimmy, it felt like an accomplishment.

Like, I've traveled all around the world. I've seen the damage trees can do. I know the argument is that all of trees, roots are shallow and blah, blah, blah. It's not worth risking. And that... And for those who don't know, there was an orchard of olive trees on top of... Like, they have radar, ground penetrated radar scan that shows there are active ruins, are a lot of ruins underneath where they planted the trees,

just so those who aren't clued into what was going on. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, and I think, yeah, Nikki's 100% right there, and I think what really surprised us when we got there was the construction of the roofing system and walkway for tourism because these pillars pierced directly into the heart of the site. So they built a major structure and installation with massive steel beams that penetrate directly,

into the heart of the site. I mean, and to give people an idea, it's only 5% excavated, supposedly, and there's 95% of it that still remains excavated. And they, like, took four enclosures

and I'm like, we're going to stick, like, and it looks like some sort of, you know, I mean, yeah, the structure itself looks like something they would put up at some massive stadium structure,

even though it doesn't even do its purpose because snow and rain and stuff can still get in. It just makes, maybe covers it from the sun, but it doesn't protect it from all the elements. So it's kind of bizarre because it's like they half-assed it and they did it in a bad way while destroying other parts of the site. And I think that brings up a great point.

What you just shared there, Nikki, is that I, and this is what we talked about on site, was that it clearly this roofing system and the way that the walkway for tourists is built into the site, all of this was built for tourism. The number one goal here wasn't protection of the site or preserving the site. The number one goal of that roofing system was to facilitate tourism. And it's kind of cool. Like it's got an architectural element to it that's like from far away. It's kind of got like, oh, it looks like that opera house in Australia.

Or I don't know, it looks like kind of cool, right? But when you get up there, it's totally non-functional. And as a consumer or like a person viewing it, I don't really feel like you get a good view of Go Becletepe either, because you have to like zoom in with your camera on everything because it's like, you know, it's like the most impersonal way to see it as well. Yeah.

Wow, there's so much you guys have you've sell already that I want to dial more into. Okay, so here we have one of the oldest, most important ancient sites on the planet. Go Becli-Tepa. And that's just a mind-blowing stat you shared, Nikiana, that only 5% has pretty much been excavated of this site. And so we're looking at 5% of this huge site. And they went ahead and planted these olive trees over the top of it, which, like Michael said, these roots will eventually start to damage this site.

The light that Jimmy was shining on the subject of the trees and then you guys, You're basically saying because of the public uproar, they literally went and removed the trees, correct? Jimmy created enough controversy, and he's got a big enough platform, but he created enough public pushback that it appears that he forced their hand to remove the trees off the site. Now, there's archaeologists coming out saying that this was in the works already. They can't cite a single, so there is like an action report for the site or something where they were, Jimmy went and found all that. And there's nothing any of those reports about tree removal or anything that dates to the time pre this public backlash and outcry. So it appears they're trying to rewrite, you know, their mistakes over the last year to two years.

and standing in defense of this, these trees and them being on the site. So it's like they're doing this 180 publicly. And let me just be clear real quick, because it's really just a handful of archaeologists that, and they're the same ones now that are defending since we've started releasing and sharing footage of the pillars that pierce into the site. They're defending this as well. which I find hard to believe. And we briefly talked before we got on here.

And you made a great point, and I've thought about this as well, is that it's really odd to me that the ones that benefit the most from a structure like this, myself, content creators, tourists and stuff like that, are the ones speaking out against it protecting the site and questioning these decisions as opposed to archaeologists who should be the loudest voices. against these things and it's just it's troubling well and what what really disturbed me about the trip the most even more than like the actual structure is you know gobekli tepe is one of many like it in that same region that same area there's kerahan tepe which we'll talk about in a minute and then

they're like we went to one called sebek or say i don't know how to pronounce it like sayberg seberg yeah it's got weird little numbers or things on the letter um but uh and and there and then saw there was a mapping of at least five or six other ones in the area of the same same time period and we went to sabirk they put i mean we can send you images of that like they put this horrible metal roof all the way down there's diapers in the enclosure like i i saw people using parts of the bricks from the site in their in their um i don't know whatever they're like fencing there's yeah they're fence walls there's there's stuff like there's this huge it's like the biggest pinched hole, I don't know if it completely goes through, this really cool, like,

square enclosure one that's just half broken sitting on the outside. I can't tell you how much looting I intuitively know happens. Because, like, one of the biggest pieces that I had seen, like, five or six years ago was it has, like, these three or four little animal, I don't know if they're little piglets or dogs or whatever. They're kind of, they're, they're like relief sculpture on the edge of this big boulder that has a big square on the outside and these little pitted holes in it. And I'm like, woohoo, this is a maze balls. And I was looking forward to seeing that when I went there. And of course, it wasn't there.

This is at Quebec Leitepe. And then so when we went to the main museum where all the stuff is house, it wasn't there either. So I'm on Twitter like, hey, where is this out? And then, you know, you have everybody in their mama's dog giving you a different reason. Hugh Newman's like, I think they reburied that. And somebody else is like, oh, it was looted. And somebody else is like, oh, they broke it. or they sold it off.

I don't, I still have no way to actually verify what happened to that piece that's like super, I'll send you an image of that too. But it's super amazing. And then you're kind of going like, I, especially at someplace like Carrahan or Sebek for sure. Like I don't know, I don't stand what's stopping these people from just going in and like taking a little sculpture and being like deuces. it's really kind of interesting the level of I don't think if this is supposed to be

there's anywhere between there's reports anywhere between 8 to 15,000 years old like this is before this the Hagueya or not the Hagiya Sophia what's it called the one in Malta that underground it's that was supposed to be the oldest man made big structure before this okay and that's 8,000 years these are all supposed to be between nine to 15,000 years old, verified by like non, like, you know, actual archaeologist.

Okay, if you're talking about a thing that special and that important to the human history, you think you would like, you know, give it a little bit more, you know, respect and credence than they have. Like, I just feel like they're kind of like they half-assed do it. It looks like they destroy stuff in the making of it. and they don't protect it once it's dug up. And then when they do put something up, it's like for show, it's not really for true protection. And it's weird to me because it's like,

we're not talking about like, oh, you know, they're just poor and they don't have a lot of resources. At this point, we have enough people on board. People talk about Gobeckley-Tepe, even Joe Rogan, like in mainstream media. Like, people who aren't even into this stuff know the name of it.

You should, it should be, if you're going to enclose it, fine. Do it properly. excavate the whole site and really take good care. And we're not saying like, oh, just don't cover it at all. Or we're not saying like, you know, like that, yeah, we're saying give it the proper, you know, like attention that it needs and the, and the proper care. I don't feel like it's care for.

You know, with Gobeckley-Tepi, just to give a little bit of the details, like, basically Go-Bekly-Tepi is run by the Doja's group. which is affiliated with the WEF. In 2016, they signed a 20-year agreement with the Turkish government for an investment of $15 million into the site. It's clear where the $15 million is going. It's not going into excavation. It went into site development.

So you got the roofing system that's built directly into the site, walkways, pathways, drives, ticket boosts, you have a visitor center, a restaurant, You have a media center and walk through. That has replicas, but nothing really fight it. You have busing transport systems. And then at the front, they're building a, in the process of building a resort, a hotel resort on site at the front of the properties there. And that's under construction right now.

So this is where the money is going. So Gobeckley-TEPI has been sold off. And so when they talk about doing, you know, these reasons. for not excavating the site for, and it potentially being 150 years before they finish excavating the site, which is the number that they're throwing around. These are numbers that have been given to them by whoever's in charge that's doing deals with these groups that manage the site for tourism,

and archaeologists are repeating these talking points online when they're railing against us on tour. Twitter. And that's basically what's going on at Gobeckley-Tepi in a nutshell. It is now just the primary focus there is tourism. You know, I've

visited hundreds of sites all around the world on every continent and there is nothing different about this site now in terms of tourism value than some of the other major sites in the world, which is unfortunate. And Nikki brought up a good point.

It's 5% excavated and you have dozens of other sites in the area that could be excavated. There's no plans to you. And they're doing the same thing at Karahont-Tepi. Karahun-Tepi is in the process of getting its roof built, and they have a visitor center in place already that's going to be built. And they already have the exact same design for the road system and transport system that's being built there.

And currently the visitor center, the permanent visitor center is being built there at at Karahan-Tepi. and it's going to be a massive complex building. And we were looking at the holes that are going to be where they are putting the thing. They, they like there's broken pot. I mean, like they are, they just go in, they just drill into the site. It's like, oh, if we break something valuable, so what? Oops.

So I have to release that, what Nikki's talking about. I released the video last week showing this, the holes where they've, dug into the site and the walkways that are feet above. I mean, some of them are this close to the T-pillars. They're built directly over. And now, you know, Flint Devil and Milo Rossi did a live stream together recently, basically bashing Jimmy for standing up against some of this stuff. And we're laughing at the idea that any of us would think that they wouldn't plan accordingly

to put those poles in. Now, I'm going to assume, and I don't think it's a far stretch that these guys have never done a day of hard manual labor in their life, but putting giant massive steel poles like that into the ground requires dozens of people. Heavy machinery, cranes lifting these poles,

lowering them down in, being guided in by workers. You're talking about workers walking all over the heart of that site to get those poles in place. And I'm not even doing. getting into the process of digging the holes down we've documented the holes being dug down 20 feet in the middle of these sites and that's for karahontepi which has a smaller roof and now the only way to support a massive roofing system like that you dig down like that 20 feet deep and you're going to fill the hole with concrete you're going to put the pole down in there fill it with

concrete let that sit so it has a stable base and then attach the next pillar steel beam pillar to that that goes up and connects to the roof. And I have pictures of this whole, like, it's through the active site. Like, whether it hit, like, an amazing statue or not, I don't know. But you can see that it's through, like, the same wall material, the same, like, like, pitted stones, the same, like, carved out man worked. Like, it's part of the site that they're literally digging through. It's just weird.

Yeah. you would think that these archaeologists would be the first ones to want to defend protecting this site from having orchards planted over the top of it, from having all these roads and walkways slapped down over the site like you guys are talking about, I saw your photos and videos of this. It was just surreal, these poles, these posts going deep into the ground. You'd think they would be the first ones. but it's you guys, it's Jimmy, bringing this to light. And again, I'm just still blown away that it's 5% excavated,

yet they would build the structure over it like it's finished, right? Not at all. And then let's talk again, Michael, you brought up, they've thrown out the stat of 150 years. And like you stated, money is not the issue. They have, I think you said, a $15 million grant or deal. Like, they've got all kinds of money. But they don't.

Not to mention it costs us for the five of us to get in there was well over $100. Like it's not even like it. I don't know how cheap that would be even for a Turkish citizen. But I mean, like it was it's not like it's, you know, $5 to go there. I mean, it was like 25 plus per person to go there. So that's crazy. And then the cherry on top of all the craziness is the fact that they don't want to excavate it for fully for 150 years. They want to leave it for future generations, I think the

quote is, right? Talk to us a little bit about that, and how could they, how could they even come to that, that viewpoint? Here's a deal. The archaeology happens, and I don't, you know, we talked about this also briefly, is that before we started today, is I don't think archaeologists actually have a full understanding of what goes into developing a site to the end. Or a full say. I think that they're not into the building of the infrastructure. I think they're into the state. They don't,

there's somebody else is in charge of the facilities, I think, for me. Like that, I don't. No, they are for sure. And I think that's what happens is archaeology happens up to a certain point of excavation. And that point, kind of per my research, I mentioned I'll be releasing a video in the next couple, probably end of the week or next week, that documents all of this from my travels for the last almost 10 years and showing examples of this is that archaeology pretty much happens up to a certain point of around 5 to 10% of major sites, right? So let's just use Gobeckley-Tepi

for an example. Five percent excavation of that site is all that's needed to turn it into a major tourist destination that pulls in millions and million. And tens of millions of dollars a year, hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Right. So why invest more in excavating the site? So there's a point where there's a point where in discovery of a site, excavating a site, and things shift over into developing the site for money for tourism. So there's a, there's a brief overlap and then the priority changes and shifts to tourism and development.

And that's what's happened at Gobeckley-TEPI is we have fully moved past the point of archaeological work into tourism development. And 150 years is, I think, a talking point that's created in a business meeting that's then thrown out. And then archaeologists who aren't in the know champion this idea and they parrot it online. And they say they'll go. They trust that what they're being told is. But they'll say to you, oh, in 150 years we will.

will have better technology so that we can excavate it more properly or that we can, um, you know, have the ability to properly care for it better in 150 years than now. That's what the quote unquote, um, reason that's given. Right. And we've already seen,

I think, we've already seen how much go back with tephe specifically is, you know, reshaped the narrative around our history. Um, And I don't know that, you know, you really start getting into big conspiracy ideas here. But this is where big powers come into play that don't want to, you know, rewrite history. It's inconvenient.

And it's amazing to me that the amount of people on average who just actually really don't care or are willing to place profit over, you know, preservation or learning or understanding. understanding our history and adapting to new knowledge. But it's unfortunately it's the way things go. It's the system that's in place now around the world. So this isn't unique to Turkey. Turkey is just the hot button issue right now in terms of this. But this is everywhere at every major site in the world without exception.

I mean, and the reconstruction thing becomes another cringe element that they start doing like, I mean, Mike has recently been pointing out on his video, like showing all the places that say that they, when they reconstruct it, they used concrete and they like start building like their idea of what they think it looked like. Then there's that element that starts popping into it too. So you're, it's, it's complicated though because, I mean, at the same time, like, I like, like want to go see these things and I want something to see, but. And I don't want to bum everybody out, but here's another thing. because of the system that's in place,

in the video that I'm talking about, I've been working on this for several months and it's coming out within the next week, showing all of these examples around the world, is that we as independent content creators are also going to have to start looking at the things that we get really excited about differently. For example, in the video that I have coming out,

I'll be showing clear examples of day laborers taking ancient stones and cutting them with modern stone saws to fit them into place into a wall that they've decided should be there. And these blocks aren't going into their actual places. They're just cutting them to shape and then putting them into the walls. And I'll show all of that in the video. A lot of these things that we all really get excited about sometimes, like these stone saw cuts, cuts and stuff in different places, that some of them, some of them may have been done in recent

times. Some of these things like drill holes, I'm not saying all of them because I don't, I don't believe that. I know for a fact that some of these things are created in ancient times. We know that you shared a great example of that with the Egypt, the box, but some of these stones and some of these places, they drill holes and run rebar through stuff to fit blocks together into walls, and they cut these stones with saws. And we, for us, we're really going to have to start paying even more attention to what we're looking at and whether it's real or not. And it's really unfortunate to see the way these things are being treated and these sites are being treated around the world.

When you're talking about these sites and modern man remaking them, I think of Tijuana. How was there last year? And, you know, one of these most ancient sites on the earth on the other side of the planet. And if you didn't know any better, you'd think, oh, look, that's the ancient wall. They just unearthed. Like you're saying, they've propped up these huge, really weathered megaliths. and then just piecemeal the wall together of their own small blocks. That doesn't make sense.

None of that was there when they found that. Yeah. The wall with all the faces? Yeah. Yeah, there was nothing in between those megalithic blocks originally. And, you know, we talked about earlier, you know, places like Chichenits and Tia Tewa-Ti-Wacon. These are all, they're all just concrete. That's all concrete.

Yeah. Mexico is a prime example. of this. They've rebuilt a lot of the Mayan pyramids. And I mean, like, if you go to Tikal in Guatemala, it is like walking in New York City, except it's covered in like, like, I don't know, however many feet thick of vegetation. Like, you can't see that many rocks. I mean, you could tell that there's a structure here or there, but the stuff that you can tell that is, is all been reconstructed. So, I mean, it's, you really have to start questioning, what they're using as their model of how they're reconstructing it.

Because conservation is different than reconstruction. Conservation is just trying to preserve what you find there. And reconstructing is trying to make it look like what you think it would have looked like and to use any way as possible. So there's a big difference and I really don't believe with reconstruction. I don't agree with reconstructing places. And when Michael, when you say it's concrete, so you're saying like, for example, at Chechnica, the Kukon Pyramid, the biggest one there, you're saying that's basically been reconstructed just with a lot of cement concrete in there. Yeah.

The mortar. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, when they, it didn't look the way, the way you see it now is not how it was found. Right. When you see the old photos, yep. Yeah. And a lot of the way it was reconstructed, yeah.

it's concrete, holding that together and the stairs and the construction of it. The same with Tietiwakan and the pyramid of the sun and the moon and all that. At least in Mexico,

in Mexico when you go to these sites, what they do is they put little dots in between the stone and there'll be little dots running through it and you can see it they're on every every structure there in mexico you can see at least at tea tewa con and there's those little dots and that shows where it's been reconstructed

so it's like their way of where it was reconstructed so they at least show you that um there but they don't do that everywhere else in the world so when you go when you know when you look at these old pictures of places like um ballback and stuff and there's the old ones and there's like holes in the wall, like these V-shaped collapsed portions of the wall. Well, when you go there now, that wall is reconstructed. And it just looks crappy. It's like the blocks don't fit together and it's clearly out of place and was restacked, right? Well, that's because that's what they did. They just, and probably cut those stones so they could even lift them up there and restack them. And so a lot of what you're seeing like at Ballbeck around the top and the outside of these

perimeter walls are these restacked stones and they probably did the same process that they're doing that I documented in Cambodia and different places where they're just day laborers come in they take these blocks they cut them with stone saws

to manage them both pieces that they can then lift and stack into these walls these massive stones that they can then use these mini cranes to lift and put up there and that's how it's done and And some of the most, some of the laziest stuff is when they just take, there's some of these

sites, they just take straight concrete bags and shove them into walls. And I've documented that as well. That's going to be in the video. That's in Lebanon, places like, like tier in different places. There's just concrete bags shoved into walls and stacked some of these wall systems that run along these areas at the ancient sites. They're not even, they're not even ancient stones. their bags of concrete stacked on each other.

And then they may come in eventually and cut them off and shape them so it looks old. They do do that. But it's just bags of concrete. It's crazy. We're not saying everything there is fake or anything, but it's just that like they're giving you a different story than might actually be. Yes. So two more questions about Gobeckley-Tepi, and then I want to hear about some of these others. So it sounds like we got a win with them removing the orchards.

Do you think with this public pressure that you guys and Jimmy are shining a light on, do you think it will push them to start excavating more or faster at Gobeckley-Tepi? I mean, you think of these massive T-pillars, these 3D zoomorphic depictions on the the pillars, I mean, what else is hidden, right, that needs to be found? So do you think they'll push their timeline with excavation more? And then secondly, what was your guys' takeaway from being at Gobeckli-Tepe seeing these two pillars? Like, what just blew you away and amazed you? Let me answer the first part and then let me let you jump in, Nikki, is the answer to the first part is no. I don't think that they're going to. I don't think that archaeology and anybody that's

interested in history is in charge there anymore. I think the focus there is now tourism and tourism dollars are developing the area and the site for tourism. Like I said, they're building a resort there on site. Some of this stuff isn't, I don't think, I don't think tourism is inherently bad. But it's the way it, when it becomes the priority and it's prioritized over the excavation of the site,

which it now is, that's I think what I have a problem. And also when it's done at the expense of potentially damaging our past before it's been excavated and looked at it and researched really well, that's what I have my main

issue with. And I know I don't think that they're going to excavate any further. They don't to is if you're if it's if you're coming from a perspective of tourism and making money there's no need anymore to develop to excavate the rest of the area and if they do it'll be one little area here and it'll be done the same way that they just did this main area for go beckley teppe and they'll put a roof over that one too and a walkway yeah for me i feel like it's like it's like Disneyland came in and then you're going wait wait wait before you finish putting the animal kingdom resort right there. We need to get, you know, some more historical, archaeological stuff underneath it.

And they're like, no. I kind of feel like that's like essentially what we're dealing with. Like, that's how they treat it. They don't need to dig the rest of that 95% of it because the 5% they do have dug up is enough to get people to come there. So mission accomplished. Why do more? How much more can we gain financially if we excavate this? part of the site. Can we turn this into a bigger? I think what they do is they, if they excavate, because there is another area at Gobeckley-Tepi that they're excavating up on the top of the hill that they have. Right. It is on the side. That is an active site that they have. They stop there for now, I believe. And I think if they do anything, it'll be after they build the resort and fully

finished developing the site. And they have a resort and stuff for people. Now you're making even more money. and so that'll okay well let's put a little bit into that to making this to give a full day experience to people to have a reason to stay out here at the resort otherwise i can't i can't really i don't really see them certainly not fully excavating um i mean they've said as much in our lifetime that it won't happen it's not part of an academic uh like academy anymore or i mean like it was the land was the privately owned um that got sold like this doge group or not doge group what's it called the doges group

dogeist group um the world it cannot i mean now it's now it's a corporate it's a corporate and how much of because you know go betty teppe's a unisco world heritage site right which almost all the great ancient sites are so really how much of that is playing a key part in all of this control as well right these are all united nations whatever that stands for sites. So is the true purpose to excavate? I mean, again, I think of like Puma Punku having been there last year. And again, one of the most ancient sensational sites you could visit.

You're probably only seeing a little, you're probably only seeing 5% there sticking out on above ground, what's really underneath. Nobody's touching, nobody seems to be touching that or digging to find out what great ruins are under here. But what amazed you guys about Gobecki Tepe? Was there anything that stood out? Anything new you saw? It's really where it is located. You're kind of like, how the hell do they find this? And then so much looks like the same terrain. So I just looked around going like, there's no telling how much is around here. It's like on the top of the hill, it could not have been, I believe it had to have been intentionally buried because it's not like it's in the

valley of some, some big, you know, like landslide hit it or something. It looks to me like it would have had to have intentionally been buried. So I really, really liked the relief sculpture that's on this stuff. Like, that's just, if you're saying this as old as it is, then that really, like, then, okay, then they're using, they're using some kind of tools that we aren't aware of. Like, they're carving sculpture, like relief sculpture. And there's one, like, little there's a couple little dogs that are I don't even know what kind of animal they are but they're very far sticking out of these pillars so that to me was super impressive to see in person actually I was like that's cool I like that one second one other thing I was going to say my understanding

the UNESCO world heritage was founded by Nicholas Roach like back in like prior to either World War 1 I think and its function is mainly what it was set up for I don't know if it will remain this. But it's like if we have some sort of war war or something, there's basically country agreements that you don't bomb these sites. But I don't know if they actually give any real money to them. It's almost like they're protective measures that are good for wartime. That's what it was set up as initially.

So I don't know how much they are active besides that. I was really blown away with how all the similarities to the sites in Malta that I noticed. It just, it seemed hugely comparable in terms of the layout and structure of the site compared to the major sites in Malta. It was to the point of it being, you know, really kind of shocking. how similar they were in terms of their shape and structures. I thought that was really cool. I was looking for, you know, at Malta,

they've got all those little stones with all the little dimples and indentions in them. I didn't see any of those that go back to the tepee, but that would have been cool. And then it was just, it was really hard to get over the fact that we were just walking on top of the site. You know? It was, that was, that was kind of tough to look around and realize like you're just, you're literally on top of the site, the way that this, the walkway and stuff was built.

But yeah, I was really blown away at the similarities to Malta in terms of layout and everything. And then you guys went to Karahun-tepe. So I'd love to hear about a serpentine looking head that sticks out of that one enclosure and then the giant set. foot, humanoid-looking statue. I think it's called Shandler for a son-lur man who's in the museum

almost looks humanoid-like and then the green stone. Nikki, I saw you by that or a group of you guys by that. Talk to me about those fascinating pieces. Nikki found a green stone at Hedusa. I'm sure maybe, I'm sure people know of it or something,

but it's... I don't think so, Mike, because I was looking, I was asking the AI. I've been researching. I don't know anybody knows that there's two of those green stones, or at least they don't online. And then Muhammad, I talked to him today, and he's doing tourists to Turkey. And he was like, and he was like,

oh, and there's the green zone of Hattusha. And I was like, there's actually two there. And he's like, no, no, there's just one. And I was like, no, no, there are two. We found a second one. And he was like, no, there's just what? I was like, no, there's two. And then so I was going to have to show him the second one. And I was like, I'll show you on a map where it is. Like, I know where it is. Yeah, there are actually two of those. They're jade. And, like, they say they could be serpentine.

But I was looking up close at them and I compared them to some serpentine. They're jade. And they're, it's really interesting. Like, the second stone we found, it was, it was obviously, like, someone had tried to chisel part of it off. And there was, like, one smooth side and the rest was roughed. I think it was actually inside a wall at one point. because there was only one smooth part.

So, like, that just gives me all other, like, what was really here? That's crazy. And where do you find that big piece of jade? That's a lot of jade. It's not just like a rock outcropping. I mean, it looks precision shaped to me that at least the one that everybody doesn't. And we did get to see, you know, at Carahan Tepe,

that face sticking out of the wall was really interesting. because it's it's weird it's just like what you know obviously intentional which is weird to just have this weird head sticking out of the wall like that i don't i don't know what to think about that um we got to get really close to that still because care hand type is really um it's not covered yet so you get i mean like you get way closer than i thought i'd ever get to be to be to that and that one to me had like an interesting little channel coming into it so I almost feel like that had water in it at some point and then there's the weird little bobble I mean people call them phallus symbols I'm not really sure what those other little things that are around it their purpose is

or isn't but yeah it is weird the the big tall seven foot guy he looks like he's bigger than that um the one the san lufa man who's in the museum he's he's different than there's actually one that's there that how tall was that one that was there that statue it's pretty big um i'm not sure i got some great shots right up close on him yeah me too he's weird he's holding his uh member and uh you know and uh i think something that well i've heard pro right now online is they all are showing their ribs almost like they were emaciated or they were all starving or something um even the animals show their have have their ribs i don't know if that's just stylistic choice or if it's just indicative of something they were going through.

I don't know. It's really bizarre though. Yeah, he's, if I remember right, he's neat. He's kind of kneeling down, but it still measures seven, like six foot inches I read. And then he has like, I'm talking about the statue at Carahan. And then he's got like almost a helmet head or a mullet. What's going on with that? Yeah, it's hard to tell. I'm like, uh, I thought it looked like braids. maybe like his hair's back or something. But yeah, I mean, he looks like he's pretty happy. So I don't know.

I mean, like, are there any other sculptures around him? Was he the only one? Is there a party going on here? It looks like that's the only one that they talked about in that thing. So I don't know. That was cool, though. And then I saw one of you guys posted, I think it was near Istanbul, the Medusda heads.

You've got Byzantine-era pillars that used the Medusa heads as the foundation, which clearly predate the pillars above them. Was that? Were those hands from a lost civilization? Yes, they were. And they're so crazy because I just kept on, like afterwards for a couple of days,

I was like, because I had seen one of those before. Actually, Mike had sent me one like a year or two ago. And I was, first of all, I was too, I wasn't even a student. to realize that they were Medusa heads with the snakes in her hair. Like I was just like, oh, it's like a dude's head upside down. Cool. And I was like, oh, that's cool.

I want to see that head. I didn't realize until we were there, that there's two of them. They're right next to each other. And they are actually Medusa's head because they're little, their little braided hair, as little snakes. And that must have been a giant, enormous colossal group of statues that, and then if you think about it like this, okay, Medusa is like a monster. minor character in, I mean, she's not like a god or something. She's just like a minor character

that gets killed by Perseus or whatever. It's not like she's the main character, but yet that's like us going and like building some giant, here's Ursula the Sea Witch, you guys. Like, like, you know, or whatever, like there's the Wicked Witch of the West. Let's do a ginormous multiple two giant sculptures of her. I just kind of find that really like what went on here. Like, for me, Istanbul was crazy because there's that other, there's a porphyry column that is ginormous. And porphyry is more per pound than gold is. And it was super expensive in the time and I don't even know why they haven't looted that thing. And they still have it up there. It's like this red stone that there's no mine of it anymore. You can't get it anymore. So it's like a limited

supply in the world. And it is like more expensive than gold. And so they have some really crazy things there that I'm going like, what? And I know it was Constantinople before Istanbul, and before Istanbul it was Byzantine. So like in the Jesus era, it was like, or it was, you know, the Byzantine empire. But that just makes me go. And it was apparently the capital of Greece at one point, like way back when, like in ancient Rome. So it used to be something super crazy and special. But I just, even if you're using the trash as like a ginormous head for a base of a cistern, which is like a sewage. system like man who knows what the hell they destroyed anything to jump out at you in turkey did was there any other sites that you guys went to or was that pretty much at those two we went to darren kuru

um so we did the underground city which uh was really bizarre to me because what stood out to me on that and you know how i'm kind of conspiratorial in a different kind of way because i'm like i think this was built by like non-humans like almost like like hi-ho hi-ho it's off to work we go or something, I don't know. But I just got the feel, that was like horribly depressing. If you're going to live down there for a long, it's not in a mountain.

It's just like, it's just like you're like walking around, like on the flat plains of nowhere. And then all of a sudden you're like, here, let's dig here. And then you put 20 feet, or 20 stories down. And you build like this giant,

enormous, elaborate situation ship of, a city underground. And then I don't know how long they were in there or what, but they don't have any sculpture. or they didn't make any walls pretty. There's nothing. It's all kind of like, I think that's a very survival type feel. It felt, and going through Darren Cuyu, we'll let you know how old you are.

That was kind of tough going through those tunnels. But it does get into chambers that open out and you can't stand. A lot of bending. Yeah, a lot of bending and walking through their crowds. over I think some of our group had an easier time than others with some of those the height on some of those openings. But Nikki's exactly right. Like if you were doing that every day all day, like that would just, it'd be tough. So it felt more like a, and there's no, like you said, Nikki, there's no like decoration.

There's no like, you know. things that I've seen in other places that are kind of similar where you'll have cutouts into the wall where you can put things right nothing like that and there's no there's no soot or anything been found down there so they weren't burning anything so how are they getting light because if you go to there's you know once you go down low enough I mean it's just pitch black if there weren't there wasn't a lighting system in there so there's

There was no, I mean, there wasn't. There was a bit of darkness. The vents were bizarre. And there were some of the vents where I felt air coming from below. So, and then when I was reading, it apparently there's an underground river. So they, I don't know how they would have known that that river, because we're talking like 20 stories down. And I think they only allow us to go, what, eight or nine stories down. You don't get to go all 20 stories.

But apparently at the very bottom, there was like an underground river that it hit. and I don't know how they, almost like they built it there because of that, but I don't know how they would have known that. It's, that's mysterious and that's weird. And that's why I think gnomes built it. And I'm sorry, I'm sticking to it. I don't care. Or whatever.

Like, it's just, something is weird about it. And also, it didn't feel good. I felt like kind of like, like, ick feel it. Like, like, I thought the vibe of the place was like, it wasn't like, I was going like, oh, this is going to be so cool. Because, you know, I, like, love caves. I love like, you know, give me a stalagmite and it's like any kind of day. I love caves.

But this, I didn't so love. I was like, ugh, it felt just kind of like. Oppressive. Hearing in a bad, weird way or like, I don't know, maybe there was nefarious stuff going on there. I don't really know what was up with it. But it just kind of, I didn't like being down there. Do you think it was like an apocalyptic bunker type situation from the ancient world? And how old do you think it is?

Did it feel like it was as old as Gobeckley-Tepe or not really? I don't know. It did feel pretty old. The doors were weird. It had these big, like, wheel stone, like, doors. I guess that they would close off maybe chambers or something. We found several of those. But, yeah, I don't.

But that's the thing. If you're down there surviving, eventually even I would be like I'd get a little stick and be like, dooby, doob, I would draw something somewhere. Or I would, I mean, I don't know. It just felt a little like grim. Maybe it was a mine and there was something they completely took everything out that was worth a damn. I have no idea.

Thank you so much for your time. If you have a closing thought to share and then how can people follow you and what can they get excited about what's your next content you're going to be putting out there, whether it's an episode or a video. Mike Lennel, you got stuff coming up. So you can follow me on any social platform at W-Wolf PROD, so W-Wolf fraud, on all socials. And then, you know, my channel's Wandering Wolf. Yeah, I'll have my Go Beckley-Tepe video is out right now.

So a lot of the stuff that we talked about here about Go-Bekly-Tepi, you can go see for yourself. And then I'll be dropping the full expansive video that covers the entire world on this time. within the next week or so. And then I'll be speaking in Sedona with Graham and Jimmy on the 19th. Nikki will be there too. And so if anybody's coming out there, you know, come up and say hello. I think we'd both love to shake your hand and meet you. That sounds so awesome.

I imagine it's already sold out probably, right? They opened up an overflow room so you can watch on screen from a separate room. So there are still tickets and they're at a reduced rate because they're in an overflow room. So there are still tickets available. And then you can come and be a part of stuff like the social hours and meet and greets and different things like that that are happening. So you can still come out to Sedona to the conference. And what's that conference called and do you happen to know the website? Quite for the past, I think.

And it's Graham's conference. Randall Carlson will be there too, Jimmy, myself, Dandy Dunker. So it'll be good. Yeah. What a lineup, man. If I wasn't preparing to leave for Peru at the end of the month, I think I might grab a flight and head down to hang out with you too. That's a toss-up, man.

I'm kind of jealous of you going back to Peru. That's awesome. So you guys are just geeking out in Sedona. Nick, you'll probably be doing some UFO watching. Oh, absolutely. I'm totally going to go. I'm into by petroglyphs and my UFOs. I like them all. But yeah, I'm Nikki Anna Jones. And it's like, my name's Nikki, but it's like Indiana Jones. But like, Nikki, you know, everybody's like, is your name, Nikki Anna? I'm like, okay. Yes. Okay. So anyway, and you can find me on YouTube. And I interview people who talk about this kind of stuff. And then I'm on, I'm half on what's that one,

Instagram and then I get on X a lot. And there you go. And then yeah, and then I'm speaking at a journey to true conference in May and then me and Mike are both going to be on some panel at the Cosmett Summit. And when is that one? In June

we'll be speaking at the Cosmint Summit. Yeah. So yeah, there's good. And then we've got a tour to Turkey. You guys want to see all the tours. Fingers crossed. They're trying to shut us down, the archaeological community. So fingers cross we pull that on yeah hopefully you get to go to turkey in November but other than that

you guys are you guys are making their rounds in the circuit that's pretty cool for the upcoming conference in April and then you guys are at the cosmic summit um where can people join you at cosmic summit is i'm sure there's a website and then how can they join your tour uh for turkey so my tour turkey is advertised on my um website it's wandering wolf productions dot com um there's a whole section there for tours and content and all sorts of stuff And then the Cosmic Summit, you can just go to the Cosmic Summit page to their website and get tickets for June. And I believe that's in Rally, right? Mickey?

Yeah. Or Green something. North Carolina, I believe. But all the information to be on their website, you can still get tickets there. And that one's a huge lineup. That's a lot of people on that one. And we're doing a Traveler's Explorer Panel with, uh, nerd robotics gary hosting from neurotics um a bunch of of other a bunch of

kind of explorers like ourselves that's been traveling around the world just talking about travel yeah thanks so much for your time it was insightful to get get it straight from your mouths what's going on and go back to tapy so i think people watching this or hearing this are really going to um find this insightful and so uh thanks everybody for watching follow wandering wolf aka Michael Collins and Nikki, Nikki Anna Jones, on their channels, YouTube, X, Instagram. They're always posting great stuff. I enjoy following them.

So guys, thank you, and hopefully we'll do this again in the future. Absolutely. Thank you.