Megalithic Marvels - The Secret Underworld of Giza / Trevor Grassi

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

In this exclusive Megalithic Marvels interview, I sit down with explorer, researcher and filmmaker Trevor Grassi. Earlier this year, Trevor was instrumental in breaking the news to the world regarding the Khafre Pyramid scans. Now he is working tirelessly to recover the lost wisdom of prehistoric civilizations in Egypt and beyond. In this in-depth discussion, I ask Trevor about the following: - Khafre pyramid scans update- Secret tunnels and massive chambers beneath the Sphinx - The Hawara labyrinth and the 40 meter metal object discovered- Trevor's quest to uncover the Giza underworld- A possible secret entrance at the 'Menkaure' pyramid - Fayoum's mysterious Qasr Al Sagha megalithic temple - The sealed gates of the 'Second Sphinx' and the 100+ blocked entrances ...and much more!!FOLLOW TREVOR ON YOUTUBEJOIN ME ON A 2026 TOUR

Well, I am very excited to be joined by somebody I've really been enjoying following the last year since the whole Koffra pyramid scan discovery took place. That is Trevor Grasse. And this guy is an explorer researcher filmmaker. I'm sure many of you are familiar with his work. He's a filmmaker. And his true passion is working to recover the lost wisdom of prehistoric civilizations in Egypt and beyond. Trevor, thanks for joining me, man.

Yeah, thanks so much, Derek. I've been following you for many years, really loving all this stuff you're doing, megalithic marvels and Stargate Voyager, fantastic stuff. So happy to be here. Thanks for having me. The honor is all mine, and it's like I was telling you before we started recording, you just came shooting out of the gate about a year ago. I know you were doing research before that,

but when the whole news broke about the possible superstructures buried beneath Giza and the Kaffra Pyramid and the Giza Pyramids, your name kept popping up as like a source of this information from this Italian team that had done all the scans and stuff. And so I guess my first question is tell us kind of your backstory. How did you get infatuated with the secret underworld of Giza? And then how did you get connected to the pyramid scan team and tell us about the excitement of when that news all broke? Yeah, well, it was kind of a long story going back to originally.

It was in 2006 that I first met John Anthony West, and I became very close with his family and started learning from him from his book, The Serpent in the Sky, and the case for astrology. Some of these other books he wrote really hit me hard. Open my mind to the way in which all this wisdom was encrypted within these Egyptians. monuments, whether through architectural languages or templates or blueprints, languages of geometry and number and all this stuff, the Pythagorean kind of symbolism. So John really kicked me off and got me obsessed with this.

And for anyone who doesn't know about him, you know, there's lots of interviews from him and everything that he was really one of the people who opened up this entire idea that the Sphinx was far older than everyone thought at the time, bringing him. in the geological water weathering on the courtyard of the sphinx and its body and all of that. So that also kind of led to this idea from Edgar Casey about the halls of records under Giza and what was actually hidden there, which definitely caught my attention. So it started me researching all this stuff and reading all these books that John was giving me as I asked him more questions about this.

And so, yeah, it was following every lead associated to this subject for about 20 years now. And a few years ago, maybe 2020, I ended up linking up with William Brown, who I've been working with the past few years, because, yeah, I was kind of surprised I hadn't come across him earlier. He did all this work to actually get permitted GPS scans on the plateau, doing ground-penetrating radar to find. all these chambers literally right in the center of everything along the sphinx causeway between the sphinx and the middle pyramid and a few other places on the plateau where he did these scans with the national research institute of astronomy and geophysics yeah he did all these other projects as well at hawara 2007 to 2009 which is another very important place i'm interested in and doing more work in the village of nassad el saman which is directly east of the plateau and this is a very important place where we're looking at right now because there's all this construction going on and destruction. They're actually demolishing all these houses there. And it's a very big project where they're kind of clearing everything to the east of the plateau.

And we know that there are many entrances into those tunnels there that actually go straight underneath towards the Great Pyramid, towards the Sphinx. So this is what he and I have really been focused on. He as well has been studying this stuff for over 20 years. but we started pooling our resources a few years ago and pulling together what evidence we have for all this stuff. And also with our friend Richard Gabriel and our friend Howard Middleton Jones. We've all kind of been independent investigators seeking these archives that are said to be under the plateau. And not just by Edgar Casey, but there's so much other evidence saying that there were these sacred or royal libraries, basically, that could be accessed under the sphinx from ancient Egyptian times.

times. So another friend Moni Safes today has proven a lot of that in his book Under the Sphinx, which is an amazing, incredible book. One of the biggest things to come out on the subject in past years until, of course, like you say, this year, it really blew up. And I ended up meeting up at the Kaffir Project because some of the stuff Bill was showing me was really pinpointing these tunnels coming in from the east under the Great Pyramid. And in 2022, Felipe, Felipe, Biondi and Carado Malanga had released their paper about the internal structures of the Great Pyramid, which after several years of the Scan Pyramids Project, which was the official team that was working there to do the same thing, the Scan Pyramids team had really shown just a couple, you know, the large void we're all seeing above the Grand Gallery,

and then the North Face corridor coming in from the main entrance. But other than that, they didn't show too much. So the 2022 paper from Malanga and Biondi actually showed 20 new structures in the Great Pyramid. And one of them was this corridor running along the bottom, connecting these two ramps, slightly up towards the northern end of the pyramid directly underneath it. And this one was actually represented in this diagram that Bill had shown me of this temple complex coming in from the east, showing a tunnel going. going straight under the pyramid at exactly that orientation and place. And so I had these two images that I just kind of lined up in Photoshop and this tunnel matched perfectly. And it was it was mind blowing to me because no one had ever seen this model from Bill before that he had commissioned.

We could get into that a little bit, but this was a model, a 3D model with an animation showing it that was built basically off of an I witness account from someone who had discovered this complex below his house, digging in his basement. And this was an illegal dig that got raided and busted. But we still had this information about what was found. So it was unbelievable for me to see that they couldn't have seen each other's models, but somehow they were both showing the exact same tunnel. So that led to me trying to get touch with Carrado and Felipe, which I finally did not long before, just a few months before. They ended up saying they were going to release all this material on March 15th. And they said, yeah, we can talk about working together and sharing information, you know,

but just wait till March 15th because we're going to show the world some things on a much larger scale than just the interior shapes of the Great Pyramid. So I said that sounds awesome. I can't wait to see what you guys show. I knew they were focusing on the copper pyramid as well. And so, yeah, when the day came, I was still in touch with them. And I said, all right, let me know if there's anything I can release. I just want to help you guys get this information out. This was basically what I told them originally because I had seen when their 22 paper came out,

which is a peer-reviewed paper, you know, outlining the entire method of Felipe Beyond these invention, which is going beyond traditional synthetic aperture radar techniques to actually create something that the world had never really seen before, or only private companies had kind of gone to that level before, but never disclosed how it was done exactly. So I just wanted to help them get the news out. And I said, let me know if I can share this material, if I can help promote it in some sense, because the media was blacking out on it. And it was an incredible discovery. So knowing that their new stuff coming out in March of this year was going to be even bigger.

I said, just let me know if I can help. And yeah, they gave me this, the project abstract, which had some of those first images of the giant tubes going down with the coils around them and the massive cubes at the bottom, 80 meters squared. And so what happened was I just, I was like, okay, I can share this. And they were like, yeah, go for it. And so I put it out just on Facebook. And I was assuming at that time that they were going to share this with everyone who was at the conference. There was over 900 people there in Italy. The conference sold out very quickly.

And so it didn't turn out that they shared it with everyone else. It turned out that I was the only source releasing it on that day. And that kind of led to some confusion in people trying to figure out what was this new document. They're looking up, you know, Malanga and Beyond. they could only find the 2022 paper. But now in March it was also Armando May was added, so it was a three-person team by then. So in the aftermath, a few people kind of figured out that I was the original source of those images. And soon enough, they came out with their full press conference video.

And the rest is history. It's still actually in the making because as of now, they are attempting to release their full paper on all the new discoveries. but one of the holdups was that it was too long, so they asked them to split it, so it's now being broken into three different papers, which will all be coming out as soon as possible, but are under review right now. So, yeah, basically they're still working on it, and they're planning to hopefully have the complete plateau mapped out by this coming summer. So it's kind of a two-year project that should be wrapping up in a few months.

It's been very exciting, but that's... basically how it unfolded. Yeah, time flies. It seems like almost forever ago, but I remember seeing the initial images of the massive cylinders, you know, going from under the great pyramids, connecting to the 80 meter squared massive chambers, right? And it was just like, what are we looking at? And there was like immediately two groups of people of people like me and you that were excited about this incredible possibility and then just full on, skept. And then just flound, skeptics, trying to shred it. Is what you're saying they're going to be releasing by this summer,

also trying to prove the method of those big SARS scan images we saw? There's still, there's still, you know, efforts underway to continue to do that. I put out a few videos early this year, some with Armando and Felipe, interviews with them, discussing it. But they did bring out with their original press conference that did come out like towards the end of March. They showed, you know, multiple different examples of testing the method on known structures, notably the Osiris shaft, which we all know what it's shaped like and looks like. They did a test there and showed the scan.

They did, yeah, the Grand Sassau Laboratory, the Mosul Dam in Iraq and a few different structures to show that it could see the things that we already know exist underground. This wasn't enough for some people. Some people just still, you know, these are four or five different examples they gave that didn't satisfy some people. But, you know, it's like Felipe told me an interview too. He said, well, usually, you know, with the scientific method, you come out, introduce the technology, explain as much as you can about how it works

without necessarily giving away proprietary information about it or the patent. But that's basically what he had done in 2022. So he was kind of just saying, well, I already did explain all that. But people want verification from an outside source. They want someone who's not part of that team to make a redundant kind of official validation of it. And so one of the best ways to do that is with another SAR expert. So Felipe has been working with from Stanford University, Howard Zepker, which it's not officially a Stanford University project, but he's a professor

there, and he's an expert in SAR. So Filippa has given him an NDA where he can use what we call the Biondi Protocol is the name we've given to Filippo's actual, the special sauce, the secret sauce inside his patent. So Zepker has access to that, and he's able to basically redo the entire experiment from start to finish and see if he finds the exact same results. So this would definitely give a lot of validation to that. There's other ways we can also further validate the technique, one of which would be to focus on Kusko after Giza is done. And we're talking about various sites that might be of high priority to scan afterwards, but

Kusko is one that's very interesting because they've just used all these remote sensing techniques last year to discover the Chincana tunnels that are underneath from Saxe-Waman down to the Cori-Concha, at least, and now they're actively excavating them. So if perhaps Filippo can scan Kusko and find the deeper tunnels under there, they might actually be excavated in real time, and people will see the validation that these tunnels that have never been known were mapped and then shown to actually be where they were seen. So there's a few ways where that can continue to happen. And another of the sites would be Hawara, where we now have four different teams have scanned underground at Hawara. So we have a lot of material to compare him with.

The two teams from like 2008, Louis DeCordier and the Mataha Expedition, and then William, who I was mentioning, he was also there in those years scanning around the pyramid with GPR. And then we had these two other satellite-based ones that happened around 2014, 2015, but one of which was only really really. least this year because that was also under the NDA. So yeah, there's a few different ways that we can continue confirming the technology and its effectiveness. And also we'll be able to see hopefully the resolution increase and the efficiency of the method actually get more and more. Eventually, we might be able to detect various materials with a certain degree of accuracy,

as some of these other companies have kind of already done. There's companies like the other two that had scanned Hawara were geoscan and Merlin Burroughs. These companies have really claimed that they could see, you know, up to five or six kilometers deep in ideal conditions and actually get a somewhat accurate understanding of all the voids underground. So it's not all new, but Felipe is bringing a new version of it that seems to have a lot of potential. Definitely exciting times to live in when it comes to discovery in Egypt. Yeah, I remember looking at the resume of Felipe and this guy had so many degrees, I couldn't even count them. I mean, so he seems to have the, I mean, incredible mind. And this is satellite technology.

So it's able to bypass all of the red tape of the authorities on the ground. He's just pointing it at the Great Pyramid. Incredible stuff. You mentioned Hawara. Let's talk about the Hawar Labyrinth, this 40-meter metal object that you guys are talking about that is down in this subterranean structure. Talk to us about Hawara. Well, that's one of the most amazing things. Like I say, Lewis and William were the two people who I really credit more than anyone for leading these two separate projects back in 2008.

Williams was actually 2007 through nine. But they were both originally focused on solving the water issue because the water table is flooding and damaging all this stuff that's underground. And we've known that for a long time. And that's been the first priority is to preserve the site and end that water damage that's actively taking place. But it led to a lot more interest a few years later. 2014-15 is when Dr. Carmen Bolter came in with Andrew Barker. a couple other people were involved in this. Lewis was involved again.

And Dr. Carmen Bolter had done some great work. She made the documentary, the Pyramid Code, that has some really great stuff in it. And in those years, 2014-15, she did another scan with geoscan where they showed the two levels of different chambers saying actually that the upper level was flooded when the lower one was not, which was interesting.

But this was a pretty crude, kind of scan. And you could see the two levels, but they were kind of just extrapolated from a 2D image showing where the chambers basically were and what levels they were at. So Michael Donnellan actually kind of turned those into a 3D model, but it's pretty crude. And the other one that was done at the same time, this is by a company that's now known as Merlin Burroughs, but it was originally basically this guy Timothy Akers, who said, Sadly is no longer with us, but he's the one who made this incredible, unbelievable scan that is so detailed that we're just seeing in the past few months. It was divine timing. I got to say how this nondisclosure agreement for 10 years, which Lewis was under, it just ended right after the Koffa project brought out their satellite scans. It got everyone interested in this again. And part of this is so important because Timothy Acres was working with people at this, you know, data collection center that's basically the most advanced satellite data interpretation center on the planet used by like CIA and NSA and military and British intelligence and stuff. And he had friends in these places that were helping him analyze the signals he was processing at Hawara.

So, yeah, the images. that came out from this were unbelievable. And I've been talking with Lewis about this for a few years because I've always been interested in Hawara. It has all this historical documentation from Herodotus to Petri and everywhere in between up to the modern day, basically explaining that it's the most incredible architectural achievement in human history. so massive that Herodotus said it had 3,000 chambers on multiple levels, and that, you know,

the size of it was basically such that every temple in Egypt could fit inside of it at once, or something to that scale, to give an idea, you know, Herodotus said this was even more impressive than the pyramids themselves. He said it was the greatest thing that's ever been constructed on earth, essentially. And that's the father of history, Herodotus saying that. So It's always been very important. And due to the nature of it, how it's just all these chambers, it really makes sense that it would be an archive, like a library, where you have all this surface area to inscribe the histories and all this lost knowledge.

It would be a place to preserve it all. So I've sometimes kind of said it could be basically a backup copy of the entire civilization, of everything they knew, the most important knowledge and art, science. So, yeah, as you mentioned, this scan was not only incredibly detailed showing the entire layout, but it also showed this massive central atrium that Tim Acres had likened it to like in a shopping mall where you have a big central corridor that opens up and you got two, three floors all kind of opening up to a central space like this big long gallery. And at the very center of it, he found this 40-meter metallic object.

as you say, and it wasn't just any ordinary metal, but was a material signature that he had never detected before in his entire career working with this kind of stuff. So what he said was that we don't know what it is, but whatever it is must be one of the most important objects on planet Earth. It's basically the central focus of this entire central gallery, of this most important structure that we've ever even known about.

And so, yes, certainly some people are jumping towards. Is this a ship, a UFO? Is it a Stargate, something like that? He described the shape generally as either being like a TikTok, a Tick-Tac shape, which we know there's been a lot of UFOs seeing that we're generally in that shape, but otherwise potentially like a Shenring, which is like in Egypt, the cartouche where you have the king's name is like an oval with a line underneath it, but this is a compressed one where it's like a circle with a line underneath it.

So Schenering is basically, if you remember that the movie Stargate, it's exactly what the Stargate looked like. So he's kind of estimating based on, you know, a view downwards, an aerial view. Maybe he can't tell exactly how tall it is, but it's kind of ovular from that. Something like that indicated that it could either be one of those two shapes, either of which would be very exciting. It definitely connects with, I know, you know, mutual friend, Muhammad Ibrahim, who leads to us that we're both been using him as an Egyptian

guide. And he's been looking into this, you know, the phenomenon of Stargates being everywhere shown on the walls, described, written, drawn. And, you know, it's this whole, this whole thing that it's not pulling that concept out of nowhere. You know, there's definitely a lot of truth in the film that came out at Stargate and the series that came after that. And actually, honestly, my friend Howard, he's been telling me recently, like, he got a signed letter with a signed photo of the entire cast of Stargate SG1, where they basically acknowledged that they pulled all this material for their series out of the work that he was doing at Diza back in, like, the 90s and 2000.

So, yeah, it's kind of, I did a whole. film with Muhammad and Mike Rixiker who leads the Stargates of Egypt tour with him and Muhammad's been getting so deep into it that we just went over all this evidence where you see at Dendera, Edfu everywhere on the walls, these pictograms or descriptions of the stargates and these six specific kings that he's starting to call the Stargate Kings or Queen and Hatchups, its case. But that's a another thing we're just getting into. And there's more than that at Hawara as well. They found like these two giant wooden boats that are closer to the surface. It would be amazing to

excavate like Kufu's solar boat. And basically we're trying to rekindle the interest in Hawara because we know it's a key location and we could be excavating a lot of that stuff soon. So this is more in the hands of Louis DeCordier. He's a great organizer and I know he's working on that very hard right now. And I do think we're going to see some amazing results from that very soon, beginning with the preservation project and hopefully being able to move this entire canal that's running through it and the canal is flooding into it and causing like a consistent source of the water coming in. So that's the first step. But I'm very optimistic that we're going to be able to do some work at Hawara very soon. It's a fascinating structure.

And you mentioned Stargates and our mutual friend. Muhammad Ibrahim, who's the tour guide, but also an Egyptologist, and one of the best, I believe, and you believe, because he's broken with the mainstream, right? There's Stargate depictions everywhere. Not only the word Sabah Stargate, but I just actually posted a reel on my social media. It was at Karnak Temple. And it's just one of the endless stargate depictions, I call it, and you just see this stuff everywhere. They were in with it. It's written everywhere. And so it makes your mind start to go to some crazy places. Tell us about this possible secret eastern entrance at the Menkari Pyramid and what you know about that.

Yeah. So at the Menkhor Pyramid, this is a really amazing new discovery that just got confirmed this year. but it actually started back in 2019. My friend Stein Van Denhoeven wrote this report that was brilliant paper. Basically, in the north end of the pyramid of Menkore, which is the smallest of the three, attributed to Menkore, you know, though I don't subscribe to that. I think they're all older, but that Kufu Koffran and Mengkor did some work there. But to be simple about it, that's the name. In the north face, you have the entrance.

The entrances are almost always in the north face of the pyramids, because they're pointing upwards towards the North Star or to the center of that circle where procession moves the North Star around. And it was inside this, you know, they have all the casing stones along the base are bulging out, kind of like corn kernels like you see in Peru and stuff. In the center, there's just one square where it's totally smoothed out. Like it was softened and just like scraped perfect. flush. And so the entrance is right in the center of that smoothed out area. Then on the south

side, on the west side, you don't have anything like that. It's all just bulging and unfinished. But on the east side, there is a square where it's smoothed out. So Stein, he asked a very simple, quite obvious question about something that's been staring us all in the face for thousands of years. This is my favorite when this stuff that's right there hidden in plain sight, someone finally just says, well, wait a second, why did they smooth that this square in the center of the east face, but not the other two when in the north, the same thing happened and there was an entrance in the middle. He said, is there an entrance in the middle of this smoothed out area? And the paper was very, very well written. And the scan pyramids team and some other people,

There's a whole group, a lot of people on this paper that just came at this year, including Zahia Wasz, was one of the authors. So this was very official coming straight out of the ministry. They used, I forget exactly, I think it was some electrical resistivity, some like GPR, various remote sensing techniques, kind of like they had done at the Great Pyramid, except not muon scanning in this case, because that you need to get the sensors underneath looking up. So this is more surface scanning down. And they found it. They found the entrance.

They found a one by 1.5 meter entrance directly behind probably just one layer of casing stones, directly dead center, like a mirror image of what's on the north face. They found that there actually was a tunnel going straight down, probably in an angle just like the other entrance. And then off to the left side, another one, a smaller anomaly, probably behind just one layer of casing stones. So there was some videos done by this early this year. Ancient Architects did a good one,

and then History for Granite did a good one. But nobody had really touched on this until, I don't know, in the past month, there's been like 20 articles, came out about it from all different newspapers. Everyone finally caught on to it. But I did a little piece about this in a film I recorded back in August, but I'm just releasing probably the end of this week in my secret underworld of Giza series. But while I was there, I just got back a couple days ago from Egypt and Turkey Quick.

And while I was there, I went right up to that eastern face and the northern face too. And I actually did with my new 360 camera, which is great. You get this full immersive view. I did a Zoom interview recording with Stein, which no one has actually done yet. He's the guy who proposed this entrance and was validated by the whole Scamp Pyramids team this year, but no one has looked him up or actually done an interview with him. So I'm really excited about that one. I'm going to get it out soon. It's a premier interview with Stein Van Denhoeven who actually made that discovery, or proposed it at least.

And yeah, it's absolutely incredible. It aligns with certain other evidence I'm bringing forward as well right now with the suggestion of this tunnel that runs from the Sphinx to the Koffer Pyramid, the middle one, but also splits off to the Great Pyramid and Mencore. And this is going back about 90 years to Harvey Spencer Lewis and H.C. Randall Stevens who had put out these maps basically showing those three tunnels splitting off from the sphinx. One of them shows, you know, the tunnel coming down to the pyramid of Mencore and entering, like, right in the center of the east face.

So this would be coming under the pyramid, basically right underneath where this new entrance could be leading down and connecting to it, center of the East Space Edge. So there's validation from, you know, it kind of cross-validates with some of the other evidence we're bringing out now. But it's either way an incredibly exciting new discovery that, you know, we could potentially carefully raise some money. Stein started a go-fund me or something I could share too. to try and get that project done where we could very carefully remove maybe one or two of the casing blocks and not cause any damage but be able to access this new entrance into the Minkor pyramid. It's never been known. And we know the Koffa project showing, you know, four of these columns going right down under the MnKor pyramid.

This entrance could very likely access those, some of this very deep stuff. So it's another amazing avenue to look into. and I'm following it very closely and very excited to have the premier interview with Stein. He's done some other great work too. Looking for, for instance, these two pyramids that were the lost pyramids of Lake Karun, the ancient Fiam lake down near where Hawara is, about 80, 90 kilometers south of Giza, the whole Faiuma Oasis. It used to have a huge lake, and we had two pyramids shown in these old engravings,

which are now gone kind of right in the middle of the lake. And Stein had another paper where he proposed what he believes to be the foundations of those pyramids. So he's done some good work, and I'm really grateful to him and very excited about this new eastern entrance to Mencore discovery. You just mentioned the Fayum Oasis, and let's talk about that, because there's a structure there that has the same megalithic colossal blocks like we see at the Valley Temple in the great. pyramids. Yeah, yeah, it's very important. I think you're speaking about a place called Kosserell Saga, which is kind of in the, in the northwest corner of Bayoum. And it's this incredible temple. It's tiny, tiny little temple. It just has like these seven little chambers within it. And the construction, the stylistic architecture of it, it's, it's almost identical to what

you see there, like you said, the Valley Temple in front of the Sphinx or at the Sphinx Temple, in ways where, you know, it's these massive, just perfectly smooth flat blocks, no higher glist, like very plain. It has these drilled boreholes that you see, like near the doors where the hinge pins might have been somehow or something. It has these rounded corners, you know, the L-shaped corners where the stone is actually wrapping around, making it much stronger. possibly giving it these other qualities that, you know, you wouldn't build it that way if it was, you know, much simpler to just use rectangular blocks rather than L-shaped ones with insect cuts. But the technique that they used, which I think is very similar to what you see on the MenCorp

pyramid, we're just talking about where the stones bulge out and then you smooth them down afterwards once they're all in place. You see that there. So many different aspects of how this this little temple was built make make it look to me like it was basically from the same time as the Valley Temple or the Sphinx Temple, both of which saw many, many different ages of construction, to be sure, but you can see like the original core limestone blocks that were used there. And we do know that those ones go back to the same time as when the Sphinx was originally quarried out because, you know, only its head was above ground. its whole body was cut down from the rock and the courtyard created around its body.

So like the Kailasa temple in India, this was actually carved down, it was not built. And we can match up some of the rock, the stone levels of strata from the stones that are in the Sphinx temple to the actual bedrock of the Sphinx. We know those stones were quarried out when the Sphinx was carved. And that puts this stylistic architecture back to that point, which, you know, John and Dr. Shock, who's also a good friend that I got to tour Egypt with back in 2019 and got to go and see the Sphinx Temple with him. You see that basically, you know, he put the age back as a geologist, a respected geologist and geophysicist. he did actually put the date back, you know, at least a few thousand years before the first dynasty. And now, now more so, he's putting it right back to that 10,500 B.C era roughly. And so this is, you know, as opposed to four and a half thousand years old, it's actually 12.5,000 years old,

two or three times older at least because he's saying this weathering on the courtyard is very indicative of, of, of millennia of prolonged precipitation-based weathering, which would have indicated a rainforest climate for several millennia. So if we push the day of the Sphinx back that far in the weathering on its courtyard, we also have to push back the core walls of the Sphinx Temple. And we see the later generations

where they actually cast these like cast, I don't know if that's the right word. They did something with the red granite to surface, the ancient already weathered limestone core blocks of those temples. So this was maybe in dynastic times when they added this red granite, but we actually have no clue how they did that either, because these are very organic, like, weathered surfaces, and it's like they just turn this granite into clay

and squeezed it on there to make a perfect inverse of these weathered limestone blocks. So this, it's the very same type of architecture that you see, Khasaral Saga there in the Faiyuma Oasis and also at the Osirian in in upper Egypt. It's one of the very few places in Upper Egypt where you see a similar type of construction. But all these various indicators of it being the largest blocks you see anywhere in Egypt. And so plain and so undecorated compared to all these temples that are just every inch is covered in reliefs and images. a very important site for sure. And some of the other pyramids at Fayyum as well,

Maydum, or that's a little north, but basically. And Lahoun, which we just visited as well. I jumped on one day of Muhammad's tour a couple weeks ago when he was going with Mike Ricksaker, and we're adding these on to the tour I'm setting up in March with him as well. Or as an add-on afterwards, we're going to do the Fayum Oasis and Amarna. as well, the Minya District, which is where Akhenaten was set up as his capital city, Akataten, and some amazing stuff down there. We're actually going to go to Tuna Gebel, which is an entire underground city that we can go inside and things like that.

That's exciting. Yeah, clearly plug your tour. So it's coming this March, and it's with Muhammad Ibrahim, that's the same guy I use and some other great hosts, and then tell people where they can go to register for the tour. Yeah, it's going to be very, very exciting this one. It's my first tour, and I've been planning to, you know, dreaming about having a tour for 20 years now, and it's finally come around. I ended up getting Armando and Felipeo from the Copper Project to join his hosts.

And then we've also got Christopher Dunn, the Living Legend, you know, who shared the Giza Power Plant, books and the Tesla Connection is most recent book. And then we also added on Pravine Mohan, who's, I think, definitely one of my favorite YouTubers out there, makes incredible videos, mostly, you know, centered on Asia, Southeast Asia and India and Hindu temples, things like that. But this is his first Egypt tour as well. So we've got this whole theme of science and technology and recovering law.

technologies is the title and theme and we're packing in seven private entrances so we'll be in the sphinx temple in the sphinx courtyard the great pyramid abruash the assyrian uh we have an option for the osir's shaft as well for people who want to go down there um i'm probably forgetting one or two but packing it full with five hosts not including mohammed six hosts including mohammed and we'll all give about recovering these technologies and trying to re reverse engineer what was really going on and what they were used for definitely be focusing on the stargates so all that is available on sabatours dot com and yeah i know not to take anything away from your tours which i'm sure are great with mohammed too i know you got one in twenty 26 as well but um we would love to have anyone

who's interested join there i know there's going to be some some fun attendees as well as as hosts. So a lot of research is going to jump on this. Yeah, sounds like a great tour. You can't go wrong with Muhammad as the tour guide. We already talked about him, but then you got this All-Star cast. So that's this March. If those dates work for you, go to sabbatours.com, find Trevor's tour and sign up. That is going to be an epic tour. I almost want to sign up and just go along. That would be amazing. the fourth to the 17th and then the um the osir's shaft is kind of an optional add on that would be on the fourth on the first day and then fayuma and marna we're going to do a three-day add on the 17th to the 19th but yeah oh it'd be awesome if you come

it'd be amazing so everybody check that out if those dates don't work for you in march yeah i'm i'm leading a tour with mohamma this uh December starting December 1st of 26 so if you want to go during right before Christmas, you can go to megalithicmarvels.com slash tours. Okay, Trevor, there's so much I want to ask you about. Time is flying. You mentioned the Sphinx. We've got to talk more about the Sphinx. Robert Schock's groundbreaking research, like you said, this renowned physicist, geologist, who says, actually, no, the Sphinx isn't just 5,000-plus years old. It's 12,000-plus years old. let's talk about the sphinx because you've been doing some videos recently about the sphinx and how

there's confirmed tunnels underneath there's massive chambers underneath there's a lot of talk about the library talk to us about the sphinx and do you believe what do you believe its original head looked like yeah uh for that question i'm definitely going to um go back to money safe today he's the one who I think answered that one pretty well and under the Sphinx, his amazing book. But I think he brought forward all this evidence that showed before the Fourth Dynasty it was actually a lioness,

like fully lioness and did not have a human head. And that the human head, which many people believe has been recarved at some point in time, was probably done in that time of Ghafra or around then. Because we had these various like five or six different characters throughout the history of Egypt before then, who actually were given this title, which in written form, like you can see it on these statues, on the basis of the statues and different documents, it's written showing that they were, one of their titles was basically

as the keeper of the keys to Mahit, which was the name of this lioness goddess in the form of a female lioness describing the statue, showing the image of the statue. you, all this context pointing to it being at, you know, the delta, the peak of the delta where the Nile, you know, came up and that it was looking east, all these things, is very, very specifically describing an ancient hieroglyphs that the sphinx used to exist as a lioness, and that later, yeah, it was recarved, and then it was given the name Horamaket or Horocti, the other one. These are the names listed on the Dreamsteel. of the name of the sphinx now with its human head.

But yeah, I believe it was a lioness before then, which was a brilliant guardian symbol to be a guardian of the wisdom. Like it would to kind of differentiate between the worthy and unworthy. These are like the lioness's cubs or the ones who would threaten them. And so the symbolism is designed

to not only be an indicator of like filtering out, the worthy from unworthy, but also a direct reference to the age of Leo, I believe. And this takes it more into what John really showed John Anthony West in his book, The Case for Astrology, which came before the serpent in the sky. He was really showing us how these signs of the zodiac and the various ages they ruled were actually known and set in stone long before even the first written languages, these same symbols we know today, the Western zodiac, the scorpion, the bull, the, you know, these animals were chosen as the symbols for these regions of the sky. That goes way back to Sumerian or before,

to before written language. And when you understand that, you understand like, you know, in the age of tourists, they're going to be worshipping the bull. And these, you know, priesthoods would shift at the cusp of each new age, which lasts about 2,160 years. per age, making a full cycle of all 12 last 26,000 years or 25,920, the full processional cycle, which is what John's describing as the ages rising to these ages of wisdom and high consciousness, then falling back down to these darker ages and oscillating kind of between the two every 26,000 years. So when you realize this that, you know, every age of tourists, they're going to be worshipping this solar principle through the filter of that zodiacal sign where the sun is housed on the equinox when it rises.

And so this again ties the sphinx to this age of 12,500 years ago when it was the dawn of the age of Leo. And that's considered the birth of Leo within the entire cycle that only happens at one time being when the sun is rising directly in front of Leo on the horizon on the equinox. So that's part of the astrological dating that also ties to, you know, Robert Povall is an Orion correlation theory. It lines the pyramids up to Orion's belt at the same moment. And then the Nile is also reflecting the Milky Way at that same moment. So I think this is pinpointing one of the extreme tilts of the sky in the processional cycle. Essentially, if you understand how that all works, you know that the Egyptians would never, ever build a massive statue of a lion.

unless it was the age of Leo, the dawn of the age of Leo specifically. So John said, yeah, the Sphinx must be 12,500 years old, if not 36,000 years old, which was much more dramatic to say, but the fact is we really don't know. It could be, and this would have been the last age of Leo. But I think it's very accurate for him to have said, you know, basically they wouldn't have built it in any age besides the age. of Leo is so important. The statuary always follows the age that you're in. So this is, it's also the exact opposite point in the cycle from where we are today, which is the age of Aquarius

as the dawn of the age of Aquarius. It's the exact polar opposite. And these are the two equinoxes of the great cycle, basically. So I believe how it works is, is every time in the age of Leo, So it's the autumnal equinox of, that's what Plato called it, the great year. Like there was the solstices and equinoxes. The age of Leo would have been like coming from the long summer or golden age. It would have been the autumnal equinox coming down into the winter. So that point where you would actually hide all these ancient records and all the highest wisdom gained from the golden age at the age of Leo. And at the age of Aquarius, when we're coming out of the dark age, back towards that.

that age of wisdom, this is when you open all those record chambers and recover that knowledge, if and when the consciousness level of the planet can attain to that height where people start seeing how these codes all work, how the processional calendar works at Giza, and start unlocking some of that knowledge that's already in plain sight. Then we can get into some of these chambers that has artifacts and records that can spark the rest of our knowledge about this entire science that was being used in those times when we're ready for it when we're worthy basically now let me ask you about the possible sealed gates of the second sphinx how just south of the sphinx causeway you know there's hundreds of these blocked entrances as you would say to the geiza

underworld tell us a little bit about that well there's you have three different of the you have the eastern, western, and southern cemeteries, which are on the respective sides, basically the great pyramid, the southern ones, under the causeway between the sphinx and middle pyramid. And that's one of the ones I've walked around in a lot. There is this one structure over by the tomb of Kenkawas in the south end of that field that, yeah, at least one guy, Dr. Rada insisted that he thinks it would have been an ancient sphinx that was very weathered and barely recognizable today. But that's undetermined. That's kind of a speculation. It has kind of a shape of a sphinx and the neck at least. The head is kind of basically completely weathered out and the paws aren't really there either anymore at least. So it could have been, it could have potentially been a sphinx facing to the west, which is interesting because on the dream steel of topmost of fourth, right in between the paws of the sphinx, you see this image showing two sphinxes back to back facing out opposite directions. And we know the main one is facing east. some people think this could have been the other sphinx depicted there guys like robert beval we're saying you know maybe one of these sphinxes is the celestial sphinx of leo and it's part of the metaphor um there's other places on the plateau actually like just to the north of the sphinx

um there's another hypothesis that this used to have a second sphinx right there where you'd be walking right in through the two of them kind of like the stone lines you see in asia or something there's two flank in the pathway and there's also indications of potentially Sphinx that had been across the Nile facing the opposite direction at one time so there's a few ideas like that but as for that whole area the Southern Cemetery in itself and the Western and Eastern ones both all three of these probably each of them have I would say at least 200 shafts visible that are all blocked and filled in with sand or else have gates on them or you know are

are like entrances into cliff sides. There's a, there's probably at least 200 in each of those three, uh, Mastaba fields basically, where the Mastabas are these above ground tombs. They call them these giant rectangular structures. And each one of those Mastabas has this huge shaft in the center of it. Most of them are like eight feet across or bigger. Um, and then all these other ones outside the Mastabas are usually like three or four feet squared.

They're all square. But this ties into, like, there's a whole section of them right behind the Sphinx, just north of the Sphinx Causeway, beginning with the one closest to the Sphinx is called Campbell's Tomb, which is a very big one as well, and then some smaller ones west of that. And we think that in general, these shafts were probably light and ventilation shafts for the tunnel system underneath. I mean, there's lots of places where you see 10 of them just clustered together and it's like you can't attribute these all to tombs. There are tombs pocketed all over the place on the plateau, but they're not all tombs. And certainly it wouldn't make sense to have them all clustered like that.

It makes a lot more sense to say that they would have been lighten ventilation shafts for the tunnel system. In the case of Campbell's tombs and the ones next to that, we know that to be the case. We know people who as children used to play in those tunnels. They used to be open. But today, almost all of them are filled in with sand. They're not excavated, and we can't say what's at the bottom of them. Some of them have been excavated in the past, but we don't have any of that information anymore. The Colonel Howard Weiss had excavated the Campbell's tomb, that very big one by the Sphinx.

And we could see what he found at the bottom. There's this giant shrine of stone in the middle. And according to Felipe's scans of that one, it looks like it goes ten times deeper than what we know of already. So it must have a false floor and a way to continue deeper than that. So yeah, all of these shafts are very important to me. I think any one of them could be excavated and we could find, you know, between, let's say, 200 and each one of the three fields, that's already 600. it's safe to say there are at least 1,000 shafts on the plateau because there's so many that aren't even visible that are covered with sand. We haven't even found yet, much less excavated.

So there's probably a thousand different entrances that we have to explore as it is without drilling, without doing anything, just clearing sand. We literally have about a thousand ways to potentially enter the entire system below. It just goes to show, I don't know. They always just tell us you had the Giza Plateau mapping project from the ARCE and A-E-R-A-E-R-A-E-R-A, the two different groups Lainers working with. They said they kind of tried to scan everything, but they didn't really show much of anything compared to what we know is down there. So much to ask you, but I want to kind of end just hearing your theory in a nutshell if you're cool sharing that. We know what the mainstream, you know, archaeological world tells us regarding Egypt, or I should say the Egyptological theories that, you know, 5,000 years ago,

the dynastic Egyptians arose and just started building all this stuff and the pyramids were tombs and blah, blah, blah. Give us your theory in a nutshell. Yeah. So I do believe there's evidence of plenty of dynastic work done at Giza, dynastic tombs and everything like that, but I do see the origins of Giza specifically and some of these other sites that are located throughout Egypt, going back to a time that is far pre-dynastic. I mean, beyond what most people would even comprehend in the realm of possibility in many cases. Some of this stuff below ground, some of the stuff, you know, potentially parts of the core of the original pyramids at Giza. We know that they were built upon these kind of mounds, it would seem, primordial mounds they've been referred to, things like that.

There were structures that were there before going back, who knows how long, but I believe potentially some parts of these structures are going back, you know, beyond 10,000 years, perhaps tens of thousands of years. it does seem from what we're seeing of these deep underground structures at Giza that whoever built these pyramids it seems like most likely everything was built as one project at one time and the renovations happen forever after that but when you see the pyramids how they're structured how they're on top of these cylindrical structures going down which we still don't know what those are. But they could potentially be seemingly pylons for structural support in one sense as one function of many potentially.

But everything I've found over the last 20 years looking into this, it all kind of indicates that there was one comprehensive program or project put in place there. regardless of how long it might have taken to build it, it seems that everything underground is connected in a way where it all came from a single intelligent design put out from the start. So that's part of the mystery,

but it's hard to say exactly when that major project took place. I think it's also very clearly connected to the sites all over the world. More I've learned about it, the more I truly believe that every single pyramid on the planet is part of one single design. that it came from one single project, one global civilization. It's really absurd that they're still pushing these ideas that either the pyramids are tombs or they're used for something so simple and mundane as that, like, the effort that went into them,

it needed a motivation, it needed a reason. There needed to be some, as he calls it, a national project. There's got to be some really important reason for them to be built in this way. And when we see what they can do energetically, how they affect, you know, the entire ecosystem, the fertility of the land and things like this, we see that there are, they're kind of in one sense prosperity machines. Like they bring life to a region and they balance this layline grid that's a geometric pattern wrapping around the whole planet. So there's all these mysteries that still need solving about that. But yeah, I do think, you know, to say that history began 5,000 years ago, and that's it, even though we've physiologically not changed in 300,000 years or so,

we've had the same mental capacity for self-awareness, to use tools, things like this. And yet it's only been the last 5,000 years we suddenly decided to create civilization. I don't buy into that. And I think it's very important to understand this aspect of, the processional cycle that this was some of the most important knowledge they really showed us they had was this knowledge of a cycle that moves every 26,000 years. Well, you don't, you don't suddenly just have a knowledge of a 26,000 year cycle 5,000 years ago and create an entire map out of megalithic structures that's proving you know this cycle in perfect, you know, the exact

number of years and everything. There's no way you can just do that, you know, pop, up out of the Neolithic Revolution and suddenly you have, you know, evidence of knowledge of multiple cycles of 26,000 years passing in order to know the exact length of it, there's no way you can say that civilization just began 5,000 years ago. At least these stellar records must go back many tens of thousands of years. And let me get your thoughts on why the cover up, Why do the Zahi Hawassas of the world and the mainstream Egyptologists, why do they just want us to believe the pyramids were tombs? And it just goes back to 5,000 years and that's it.

What are your thoughts on that? The whole narrative that this really, you know, that Giza came from the fourth dynasty before, I don't know, mid-1800s or so, before the statue of Khafra was found in the Valley Temple, for instance. It was really a wide spectrum of debate. Nobody was sure of when they were built or anything. But this whole Fourth Dynasty hypothesis is really based on some very flimsy pieces of evidence.

So it's like they started going for it when they found a statue of Koffra in that temple. When there's three pieces of evidence for Koffra building the Sphinx, for instance, including that statue, the fact that it looks like him, according to some people, which John arguably counteracted that entire theory by bringing in Frank Domingo forensic police sketch artists from New York police department who said, no, this looks nothing like Koffra's face, basically. And then whatever the third one was, you know, it was the half of Koffra's name written on the dream steel of Tupmosa 4th, which was from a thousand years after Koffra's time anyway and didn't directly say that he built the sphinx. Just said he had something to do with it probably as a renovation,

probably as, you know, recarving the head potentially. But the evidence for Giza really coming from the fourth dynasty is practically non-existent. It was based on assumptions from very flimsy pieces of evidence. And so once they went with that, you know, they kind of just built their picture of what it was and they just started, you know, finding ways of backing up that narrative, whatever it could be, despite, you know, in recent years, especially in the last 30 years since John kind of started this entire title wave of Graham Hancock's and Robert Beavalls and Robert shocks and all these people starting to pick apart that narrative and showing that there's There's far more evidence for other things that are saying.

A lot of this stuff is going back into the tens of thousands of years even. And when they said, where's the other evidence of these civilizations? Well, then we had Gobeckli-Tepe pop up in Turkey and these other sites that are now accepted by academic archaeologists to be from 12,000 years ago or more. And, yeah, I think everyone is now starting to jump into this, and it's become this whole age of independent researchers like you, people who are actually traveling and looking. And there's another reason why I love your channel too, because you're very focused like me on just documenting and showing, showing and telling and saying, look at this stone. How do you think they made that?

How do you think they cut this thing with laser precision, mirror smooth finishes on the hardest stones on the planet? these things that we can't answer. And it's beautiful to have these questions that are unanswered, to have actual mysteries still lingering where we don't know. And we do have the Zahiyahuasas of the world and Mark Lehner's who say, oh, we've got enough information. We've discovered everything. And so we know the whole story, which is such a sad, sad attitude to take to it because it's not only egotistical and, you know, just arrogant to think that, but it kills the mystery. Once you decide that you already know the answer, you'll never be able to find the answer, you know, because it's not the story they tell us, you know. Well, said. Well, Trevor, it's been a privilege

to finally meet you face to face on screen at least here. And again, I just want to thank you for all your great research that you've been putting out over the years and especially the last year since the news was breaking about the SARS scans, but it's been fun following you, watching your videos, your social media posts. So tell everybody where they can specifically follow you. Tell us about your YouTube channel, your Facebook, and all that good stuff. Thank you so much for having me. It's awesome. Like I say, I've been a fan of all the work you've been doing for many years, been following along. It's great to finally meet with you.

I do have my YouTube channel is just called Trevor Grosse, and there's a bunch up on there. I'm going to have a ton coming out from this last trip. In November and December, I just got back from. I still have so much from last year's trip, actually. It's going to be coming out there. But then I'm also sharing on Facebook, a lot of stuff. On X, also is Trevor Grossey,

but I don't really use that as much, mostly on Facebook. Facebook. I have a group on Facebook called Opus Magnum Group that has a lot of stuff where everyone can share. And yeah, the tour is book, you can book that through saboteurs.com, and thanks for let me plug that too. It's going to be very, very exciting. I can't wait to do this with such a great team. And yeah, Chris Dunn, Praveen, Philippo and Armando, Mohammed as well, all of them are not only brilliant researchers, but they are so open. and supportive to other people, to speaking, and, you know, just kind of a, it's all about creating a community around the research and not saying we know this or we know that,

but saying, look, this is amazing, and we all have to figure this out together. So we've all got, this is the puzzle. It's like a conference and a tour at once, like a scientific summit. So it's going to be really fun. And I really, I really love all these things that actually promote community and, and actually being open to each other, like seeing what each one of us is bringing to the table. Now there's so many people in it that are similar to you,

like going and exploring. So I'm really happy to see that happening and doing this interview with you as well as along the same lines. Love it. Thanks so much, man. Yeah. Yeah, thanks so much for your time. Everybody watching, listening,

go to YouTube and type in Trevor Grasse. that is G-R-A-S-S-I and follow him on YouTube. He's got some incredible interviews with some of the top minds. And I'm just your video series and the Secret Underworld of Giza is spectacular. So follow him on YouTube. Check out his tour. And he's really strong on Facebook too. If you're on Facebook, jump in that group he mentioned.

And just follow him personally, lots of great information. And again, Trevor, thanks so much for your time, man. And let's keep in touch and do this again in the near future. future. Awesome. Sounds good. Thanks so much, man. Take care.