Mention It All - A Rat In The Coffee Grounds Ft. Rachel Fuda (RHONJ)

Episode Date: April 17, 2023

Back from vacation, Dylan returns to the studio with a new housewife who’s quickly becoming a fan favorite: Rachel Fuda. They chat about her first season experience, and when she realized that this season was going to be one for the ages. Rachel unpacks her real friendships on the show, and where things went south with fellow newbie Danielle. Later, she recaps the trip to Ireland, and how she’s prepping for her first reunion. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Betches Media presents Ha ha laugh funny Mention It All A Bravo by Betches podcast We don't say that But now we said it With me, Dylan Hafer Hey everyone

Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast I'm Dylan Hafer And I am so excited to be back in the studio today And back with a Jersey housewife In The Flash Please welcome Rachel Fuda Hi Rachel Hi, thanks for having me

I'm excited to be here How you doing? I'm good, you know tired trying to keep up with the drama and gear up for the reunion that's right around the corner. Right around the corner. You're white knuckling it to the end of your first season. Happy belated birthday.

Thank you. You had a nice little birthday celebration that looked like with some of your castmates and friends. Yes. I like seeing that because you guys are not filming right now. You're not in the middle of season, whatever. So seeing that you're celebrating your birthday with, you know, a bunch of the women on the show, it looks like you've made some friends in this crazy ride.

You know, I have made amazing friendships I really have. I was actually on the phone with Jen Fessler on my way here. She's such a dear friend of mine. The girls, we all just have like a really tight bond. We have been through a crazy season. And I made great friends out of it. I mean, if that's the only positive I got out of it, like I'm doing pretty good. Yeah.

I mean, there are plenty of people who have been on housewives and have no one to call at the end of the day. No, seriously. It's nice. It's nice to go through it with people that have experience. And even like Jen Fester, like her and I doing it for the first time, like, to just be able to like have a sounding board for each other to like talk through stuff with. You and Jen, both funny women. Like some of the commentary that you guys make, I'm just like, you're going into it like just as wide-eyed as we are watching it sometimes. You're like, what is happening around me.

Why out and bushy-tailed? That's what I always say. I like walked in here like a baby dough. And I'm like, you know, these ladies are crazy. Well, we're all a little crazy. Did you? So signing up for this season. did you kind of have an inkling that it was going to be like a particularly wild time or

where you just kind of like, we'll see what happens. You know, there's a level of drama and craziness that comes with all reality TV, right? So that's out of the norm for me. My life is very, you know, cohesive with the people that I want in it, right? So I don't fight with my husband like that. And I'll fight with my friends like that. So to be in a group of women that are just aggressive, like they're after blood, but the level of craziness that this season has gotten to has surpassed anything I have ever seen.

And come the finale, you know, it will make sense to everybody why I'm saying that. Because right now it's like, oh, but it's not that bad. Like she's overreacting. No, no, no, no, no. Hold. Okay. Hold it right there. Talk to me after the final episode.

Yeah. In a few weeks, I'll hit you up. No, I'm dead serious, guys. It's just getting started. I like that because there are a few of, a few new women on the show this season. It's you, Jen, and Danielle. There's kind of a lot of different layers to the group that's happening because obviously the Teresa and Melissa stuff is a whole, you know, decade plus thing. And then, you know, you've got Margaret and Jennifer and Jackie and Dolores who

have been around the group for a while. And then we have kind of a new class. And so it's been fun to see you interact with the other new women. You interact with, you know, people who have been on the show for longer. How quickly did you get a sense of kind of, kind of, who in the group was going to be your people. Immediately. You know, it's like anything else, right? Like the second I got to talk to you,

like, I know I liked you. Like, it's the vibe. It's the energy. You know what I mean? Like, it's that light.

It's that fun. I'm not getting that from some of these women. It's very dark and negative and heavy and all that kind of stuff. Like, I want to be around people that want to have a good time, lift each other up, like enjoy life. So you get that almost instantly,

really. I don't think there was anybody on the cast that I, really besides Danielle that I feel like, oh, I'm not totally sure I have to get to know her because I still don't know if I like her, to be honest with you. She's the only one. I mean, you probably don't love seeing yourself get called like a rat and a bitch on TV. What do you mean?

I'm thoroughly enjoying this, guys. Excuse me, a snobby bitch. Right. Okay. We'll get to rat in a little bit. But I do want to talk about your decision to join the show in the first place. Was it a quick process? Was it something you had been thinking about for a while?

kind of walked me through that. So the casting process has started. I was probably 30 something weeks pregnant. And I did my interview and all of that. And I didn't hear anything. I had a baby. Like I had major life events going on. So it was always like in the back of my head like, okay, I know I did this. But it came very organically to me because we have organic connections to the cast. I do know these women. I am friends with them. So with that being said, it just happens like this. It just went into space. I didn't hear anything. And all of a sudden it was like, all right, we're going to move forward. And I'm like, I have a seven week old baby and a one and a half year old and a 16 year old that

I have to now figure out how to navigate all this. But it was pretty fast. I think that the executives knew what they were looking for in this new season. I think they had a very clear picture of what they wanted. Younger, lighter, airy or new blood. And I think, you know, it needed to be more than one person like Tracy is not going to penetrate a group of women, you know, that have been together for so many years. You need multiple people, regardless of the personality.

Like Danielle couldn't have done it by herself. Right. It had to be a group of people to come in to really change it up. Coming on this show with such, like having like a literal newborn at home, I could never. I mean, I don't think most people could. Do you, looking back, are you like, Tim? I did that, I guess. Yes.

But it's also, it was my second baby. Right. If that was my first, I think I literally would have lost my mind because you don't know what to expect the first time. So I was a little bit of a seasoned like newborn mom. So I knew what I was doing. I wasn't as scared as I was the first time. So, but it's still wild. Like it didn't make it any easier.

It was so stressful and I had so much anxiety. Forget about going into like the events with the women. It was like leaving my baby. Like I don't have a nanny. And I need to make that clear. I don't have a nanny. My mom helped me. And my aunt babysit.

for me. So that's all I have. I put my kids to bed every single night, every nap they take. I'm the one that's taking care of my kids. And I take that job very seriously. Do I have help? Yes, I have a housekeeper, because I don't want to do my laundry. I want to take care of my kids. Okay. And I can't do it by myself. But we have to measure what's important to us. So it's not easy. Yeah. But. Well, I mean, it's an amazing opportunity to be on the show. But like, if you were just living your life as a mom with a little baby at home like you wouldn't just plan a girl's trip to Ireland that weekend you know that was that was really hard for me I can imagine that was the first time I was ever away from all of my family yeah ever well besides a short trip and that was like you know a couple days right and like you you have a house down

there like it's more kind of like in your world totally totally that short trip oh my god that brunch I cannot believe I'm so mad at myself I didn't sage my house after that could you imagine I was watching In the episode, I'm like, I look at my husband. I'm like, we never saged. And he's like, oh, we didn't. Because we take that very seriously. Like we're cleansers. I got the chimes, you know, I got the thing they use in church, you know, that like goes over the dead people.

Yeah. Not at all. We're about the cleanse. Yeah, definitely get some sage before this summer in there. Oh my God. I need it now. I'm going to do that when I go home. Okay.

That brunch was wild. I tweeted something that was like, it was like some. person. It was like Rachel watching the carnage unfold in her backyard because it just it was like a whole episode. It was so intense. And I will tell you too that it was it's a lot of this stuff actually is so much more intense in the moment than it translates on TV that I'm like, oh my God. Like there was a whole part that you know, this one said that one and nobody gets to see it. It was so intense. Like my ring in the front of my house. It was like, bring, the ring, the ring, ring with Louie. and Joe and Melissa in the driveway.

And I'm like, what are they saying? And I'm like, do I'm like, Zoom Mantelisk? We're going to have never before seen footage on the reunion. It's just your ring camera from her shorehouse. Okay. That episode was nuts. But what I thought was so funny was like the mermaid sitting in the corner. Yeah.

Was she like on LSD or drunk or something? I use that company all the time for everything. And what had happened was this is like behind the scene stuff. I wanted the mermaid to be in the pool. but obviously that didn't happen because it was like a permit thing. So she was in the corner in her clam. That's a clam, right? Yeah,

Glenn Fessler loved the mermaid. Oh my God. She loved the steak. If you had seen the charcoal all over her face that nobody got to see. Look, more than anything, I respect Jen Fessler's commitment to enjoying the food this season. The mozzarella.

She is all about the food. As she should be. All about the food. You guys, The food always looks great and it does not get eaten enough. No, but it honestly is a crying shame because we go to these beautiful restaurants and these amazing parties and we sit down and I have the plate in front of me and then it's like everyone starts screaming. I'm like, just give me five minutes to eat the bread at least.

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It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Going into this season, like you said, in your life, you're not hanging out with people that you're going to be fighting with. That's not who you're surrounding yourself with, hopefully. Was it kind of a steep learning curve to get used to like, okay, we're at lunch and, like, all of a sudden it's going to be this for the next hour. Yes, but it's also really hard to involve yourself in arguments and conversations that have nothing to do with you because there's so much history.

I mean, could we come up with a better word here? But you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So like when Margaret and Jennifer Aden are screaming at each other at Jen Fessler's house, I was so incredibly uncomfortable in the moment. They were both so cruel to each other. The things that they said, it was horrifying. In that situation, I'm sitting here and I'm like,

this is, I mean, bad, bad. And this went on for way longer than you guys saw. Uncomfortable. And it's tough also, because as the new person watching the show, it's like, we don't want you to say nothing the whole time because then you're boring. But then if you get too involved, then you're. Inserting yourself. So I imagine that aside from just being uncomfortable, you're like, when am I supposed to chime into this? Totally.

because this is, and you know, the Margaret and Jennifer stuff is so far gone. It's so deep. There's so much history. There's so much animosity. It's like, what am I even saying in this conversation that's going to do anything? I'm not penetrating any of their screaming. That's for damn sure. But I think you hit the nail right on the head because people are like, oh, well, she's not involved.

But then I do something. It's like, oh, she's a shit starter. So what do you guys want me to do here? You want me to talk or no? It's almost like, I mean, I don't want to say like good thing you and Danielle aren't getting along, but at least that's something where nobody's going to say, like, it's very obvious. The two of you are the new women in the cast. You have friction with each other. And it kind of, it makes sense. It doesn't feel like you're getting involved in anything that's like not your business.

And you know, to be honest with you, being such good friends with Melissa and Joe, my husband and I both, we didn't want to make anything worse for them with their family stuff. I didn't want to fight with Teresa. I really, that was not my attention. And I stay true to that all season. pretty much. I mean, there was a couple times that she came after me. And I was just like, I'm not doing this. Like, I am not making anything worse from Melissa and Joe. You guys have enough to handle on your own. I don't need to put any more into that. Yeah, I thought it was, it was interesting seeing kind of you and Danielle both navigating that a little bit. And Jen Fessler, kind of like, figuring out what is the right thing to ask about? When do you make a comment? You know, is it always

the wife? Like that kind of thing. I, it's, I mean, it's, I mean, it's. so tricky even just watching the show. It is. It's really hard to navigate because there's so many sensitive subjects for each one of us that it's like you're walking on eggshells until you piss somebody off. It's inevitable, right? Like that's the point. But yeah, it's very hard to navigate. I think Jen Fessler did a standing, she deserves a standing ovation for how well she's navigated because she, everyone loves her. Everybody. I don't know how the hell she did it, but everybody loves her. So it's tricky. It's, yeah. It is. I don't think Danielle did such a good job and I don't think I did either.

But that's also the point too. It's like if we all were getting along all the time. Yeah. I mean, something that I was thinking about watching the most recent episode is like, I think Housewives kind of survives on the game of telephone and on everybody kind of sharing information with each other. So then when you're kind of deciding that you don't like that in one specific instance, it's like, well, if we're not, you know, like, if you tell me something about my friend,

then I'm going to go tell my friend. And then she's going to, you know, that's how the show works. Say it louder for the people in the back. Okay. It's the name of the housewife game. Right. Right. Like that's what it is.

Unfortunately, in a lot of these circumstances, people's families and marriages are put in the middle of it, right? But then there's other unimportant stuff like Margaret having an arsenal, right? That like, yes, of course I'm going to repeat it because we're standing here, you know, in a store filming a scene where I have to repeat. it was being told to me. Right. And like if you have,

if you're better friends with Margaret and Melissa, and then Danielle or Jennifer, who you're maybe not viving with, are shit talking the people that you're good friends with. It's like, you're going to be a friend. Yes. Absolutely.

And you know what? And I stand by what I did, by the way, like because Danielle's saying Margaret had an arsenal, I didn't know what was going on. Right. So, yes, I'm going to fill her in.

Also, I mean, whatever, hits below the belt sometimes, but like, Margaret having an arsenal is not the most controversial thing anyone's ever said. Isn't this common knowledge, you guys? Who's shocked by this information, by the way? Not me. Her ex-best friend is having a field day. A field day. I was, did you watch Melissa on Watch What Happens Live last week? Yes, I did. She looked so good. She did look good. I mean, Melissa can, she can turn out a look. But her saying that Laura had like tried to get on the show before and Andy's like, has she?

Like I, I mean, there's only so many women in Jersey. Listen, it's, I mean, Melissa said that before too, actually. Yeah. But that is true. I know that to be true from what I've heard allegedly. She did try to get on the show multiple times. Margaret tried to help her. And they didn't pick her.

There's only so far you could push your friends, you know, like, you know, I didn't give Melissa free tile to get me here. And it's like all over the internet. No, I was contacted. I don't think I've heard that one. Oh my gosh. That's stupid. Like, it doesn't work like that.

If it was that easy, I'm sure Teresa Judice would have a cast of all of her friends that all gave her free shit. Yeah. Well, Teresa's realtor was like in a few episodes a couple of seasons ago. Like, it's, you know, people are around. That's ridiculous. I, what, how did it feel being at the coffee reading with the psychic? I'm still pissed about that because I'm a psychic kind of girl. You got a good.

reading though and that's the problem is like then like knowing that it was kind of fake it's like what what it totally like popped the bubble like everything was just deflated i'm like this is all BS because nobody at that point had really known that like what i was going through with my son and that I was going to be moving forward with his adoption nobody really knew that except one person at the table so when she said that i was like oh like that has to be it you know and then she started saying this like endorsements on like besides the fact that you guys also did not see, she was reading notes. I have had, I've done all different types of like readings before.

Right. I've had my coffee cup run before. I've done this. Yeah, it's real. Yeah, but it's like I'm not reading from the pad saying, Dylan, tomorrow your shirt will be green. No, they're looking at the cup like this. Okay. And she's like, there's a star.

You're lucky. That's what they do. Right. Jen Fessler saying the cup of Ness Cafe. I was like, oh my God. She makes me pee my pants. I swear to God. I get my makeup done when I'm on the phone with her.

I pull my AirPods in and I have to hang up with her because I cry laughing. You're messing up my makeup. But yeah, it was tough. And also because that was right in the same episode right after you had opened up about your situation with your son and the process that you're going through, which I love that you're being open about that. And I think one of the great things about Housewives is that you're. you can see what so many families look like and how like everybody has a different situation going on, but maybe you can relate to someone or you can, you know, even if you don't agree with everything you say, you can see that you're, you know, going through something real. Like,

I think that is really a special thing on this show. I appreciate that. And I happen to agree with you because we are all very, very different. We have a lot in common all of us being moms and all this kind of stuff. But we're all, we have such different family dynamics. And I think that, you know, my family, we bring a lot to the show. We're very, very, very tiny. It's important that a lot of families see the that blended families like you can make it work and it doesn't only look like one thing, right? Like it's not like you know the mom's in the picture the mom's out of the picture the dad's in the dad's out like whatever the case is like you can make it work. Yeah, what you have. Ready to soundtrack your summer with Red Bull Summer all day play you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic a deep end DJ a road dog or a trail mixer just add a song to you. your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings.

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Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. The night of the season premiere, I posted something that was like Rachel Fuda, first housewife, born in the 90s. Can you? Did you know that? No.

Okay. But I saw your tweet. Because I had about 10 people send it to me. And I'm like, what? It was so funny, though. because the reactions were so strong. Because some people are like, yeah, millennials. Woo!

And some people are like, I want these women old. I want them leathery and decrepit. I know. I mean, I'm decrepit. You know, I have arthritis, by the way. I really do swear to God. So I got that down. So if anybody's worried about that.

But it was so, it was so mixed the feedback. Yeah. Because I think it's weird for people that are probably like 90s babies to be like, okay, how is she on this show or have what she has at such a young age? Like, I think that's the disconnect, maybe. Maybe. Like, John and I are hustlers. We're hustlers.

We really are. Yeah. Like, John had just started his business when we met. We built that from the ground up to what it is right now. So, yeah, I'm on my high horse. That's okay. I mean, you're killing it. I appreciate it.

It's hard work. Yeah. It's not easy. It's a lot. Yeah. It takes a lot. But did you feel in the group at all, like there was any kind of, like idea about you being younger? Did people, was it kind of just like you were the same as

everyone else? Um, I think a lot of the women didn't listen to what I said because I'm so much younger. I mean, these women are the age of my mom. Like my mom's 50. Well, I won't say her age, but mid 50s. Yeah. So we're ballpark here. Not born in the 90s. Right. We're ballpark. They could have birthed me. But to me, it's not a me thing. Like I don't care. I don't care how old you are. I don't care any about any of that stuff. Like, if I like you, we can be friends. So I think it was a lot of things that I gave my opinion about or I said that people were just like, like skating over it. Yeah. I think the first, those first few episodes too, like I think you, it seemed like you did a good job of taking a breath, kind of assessing the

situation before you really like got in there a little bit. I appreciate that because you know what? At the beginning of all of this, I said to my husband, I have to stay true to who I am as a person. what my morals, my values, what I believe to be right, what I feel comfortable doing. I can't pretend to be something I'm not. I can't. So, and that I guess probably worked against me in the first few episodes because I'm not going to fight somebody for quote unquote a spot. So I know that it's been said that like we didn't know what like our status was at the

beginning of the season, which is true. Nobody really knew anything. Yeah. But I wasn't going to sit here and like put my reputation or who I am out on the line for a job. If who I am wasn't going to get me there, then I just. just wasn't meant to be. Yeah.

And like we said, like you, you knew people going into the season. You made even better friends on the show. So, you know, at the end of the day, like, who they decide to, you know, put in the photo or whatever is one thing. But, like, you're in the group, you know. Well, that was the other thing I heard. It was like, oh, Rachel did her cast photo last. Did you hear this? I don't know.

And I was literally laughing. I'm like, I know nothing. So there's no way you guys know anything. You're like, I just showed up. They told me what color to wear. That's it. Told me what time. I've been sitting here for four hours.

Well, you're on the trip to Ireland. How was that for you? You said it was tough with your kids and stuff leaving the family. But in terms of doing this big trip on the show with these women, how was approaching that? I had a blast. It was a lot of fun. It was, I mean, the only time that you, I mean, at my age, for me anyway, the

only time I do a girl trip is for like a bachelor's party, right? So it was nice to just be away, have a good time, obviously with purpose and meaning behind it. But it was fun. We had a lot of fun. It was a little stressful like the cameras are in your face the whole time. And it's like being up and ready and making sure my eyelashes are on like things that matter. You know? Like that stuff was crazy because it's just nonstop housewives.

It's a lot. Yeah. It's different than like show up to a party this day, a dinner to. two days from now. Which is also stressful because it's like, what am I going to wear? Do I have a babysitter? Do I have makeup? Like that's also stressful.

Yeah. But this is like, I'm happy I know how to do my own makeup. I'm happy I do my own hair. But the trip was so much fun. It really was. Yeah. You know, the castle. It was all beautiful.

It was awesome to be in a country that I don't think I would ever have gone to if it wasn't for the show. There's so many other places that John and I have on our list that Ireland just had it made on there. But I would love to go back with him. It was a beautiful country. We did really cool stuff. We had a great time.

It was just like a feel good trip for the most part. Yeah. Going into the trip, did you feel maybe not good with everyone in the group, but did you feel like you kind of knew where you stood with everyone at least? Yeah. Even though you had not seen at that point, Danielle, call you a rat. Totally. Well, you know what?

Let me retract that. I had an understanding at that point of where we were at, which I thought was like we can coexist. Well, we're not actually coexisting. I think we're coexisting and we're not. Yeah. It's a very skewed reality. And then at some point the, you know, the facade falls.

It gets better. So you were told on the show by Melissa, I guess, that you were called a rat. So you didn't find that out for the first time, like, watching the episode. Correct. How has it been this season, like, watching the show back and having that new experience of, seeing what people are saying about you. So I'll use this for an example. Danielle's FaceTime call with Teresa where she calls me a snobby bitch.

Teresa obviously didn't tell me that. Fair to say. So that was my first time seeing that. And I'm like, is she talking about me? I'm a snobby bitch. Anyone that knows me knows. I might be a bitch, but I'm not snobby. Like, let's be correct here, you know?

So it's, you know, you get taken back for a minute. And it's like, all right, I think I'm more upset with the fact that like we kind of got to a better place and now I'm pissed. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's tough because I've talked about this with a lot of people who have been on the shows that there's kind of like all these different layers of like things happen while you're filming. Then you're doing your interviews and having to kind of like dredge up that. And then you're watching the show and then there's social media and then you're going into reunion. Like there's so many different phases of these relationships. It's true. It's true. It's like it goes in like steps, I think. So you're like filming and then you wrap and then it's all the things that you just said. Absolutely. But I also think too it's tough because in a real life scenario of a group of friends, you know, this one's talking shit. You never hear. Right. You just carry on with your life. And now it's like, okay, now I need to hear it and address it, which I'm more than happy to do by the way. I can't wait to be honest with you.

Reunion ready. I'm reunion ready. So, you know, I'm at the place right now where it's like, I'm glad. I'm glad because I've reached out to her, by the way, and apologized and, you know, wished her great season and all of these positive things to move in the right direction. Unrecipricated. Okay. That was fair enough. Do you feel reunion-wise, is there anything that you're, obviously we haven't seen the last few episodes of the season, but is there anything that you're like dreading or is it really just kind of like bring it on? I feel good about my stuff? I feel good about my stuff because I'm authentic.

I don't like I'll answer the questions. I'll talk about it. You know, I stood true and what I was comfortable doing. I didn't do anything out of my, you know, what I would normally do. But yeah,

I'm not really, I mean, it's cringy to watch yourself. Yeah. It's like, oh my God, why did I wear that? What I say that?

If I have that line on my forehead, like things like that. But I don't regret anything I did. No, you got to stand by your own stuff, you know? Yeah. And also, I feel like you have had a season where, you know, again, people might not agree with everything you said or like every single thing that you did. But like, you have your friends.

You came out of it with your dignity intact. And you're like, okay, yeah, like, let's do it again. I mean, maybe. I don't know who knows what's going to happen. But I mean, stuff is crazy in New Jersey right now. I don't know what's happening. How many weeks are left in the season? What do we say five?

I don't know, four or five, something like that. It gets crazier and crazier and crazier. After Ireland, buckle up, Buttercup. I mean, we're in Ireland right now. I keep forgetting that there is going to be the wedding at the end of this season. I'm like, oh, right, okay. Yeah, I'm excited to see that because I wasn't there. You weren't there?

No. Was that an easy decision for you not to be there? I was. Okay. That was an easy decision. End of the day, you were like, I feel good about that. Yeah, but like, I want to see it still. I mean, I feel like I was there because all the pictures and, like, the special in

People magazine. Yeah. I just, I felt like it was there. There were so many pictures and videos, but I, but I, I want to see the wedding special. I'm excited. Totally. Was there any part of you that was like, oh, I would have liked to mingle with all these housewives

and stuff that were there? You know, I don't really care. And I mean that with all due respect. It's just not. It would have been cool to be there to like just have a night out like an over-the-top extravagant wedding. But other than that, I was happy to be down the shore at Melissa and Joe's house and, you know, hanging out. Yeah.

Have a brunch that maybe did end in carnage. I haven't a mermaid on LSD, you know. hanging out with us. Well, I'm certainly excited to see it, and I'm so excited that we have gotten to chat this morning. I know, me too. Thanks so much, Rachel. Thanks for having me. And thank you everyone for listening.

Don't forget to rate, review, and follow the show wherever you listen. You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mention It All is produced by Dylan Hafer, Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca Sous McCat. Editing by Jorge Morales Pico. Social media by Dylan Hafer.

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